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Serious Question

If it weren't so difficult, would you leave the US? My partner and I would in a split second. Since we both like winter, probably one of the Scandinavian countries, Sweden or Norway. Life there seems so nice, compared to the US. At this point, I think America is only going to get worse.

by Anonymousreply 149October 23, 2018 8:38 AM

Yes. To Denmark.

by Anonymousreply 1October 20, 2018 4:01 PM

Unfortunately for you, other countries do not want you and will prohibit your migration there.

by Anonymousreply 2October 20, 2018 4:02 PM

Absolutely. I work with some Kiwis, would move to NZ in a hour.

by Anonymousreply 3October 20, 2018 4:04 PM

All the people I know who left the country came back for medical care when they got older. Granted, these are people who lived in Mexico and places like Panama.

by Anonymousreply 4October 20, 2018 4:05 PM

I actually don't mind the US -- it's my home. I have lived abroad and can't see leaving the US forever.

by Anonymousreply 5October 20, 2018 4:06 PM

R4 people just don't want to die and go to a non-american heaven

by Anonymousreply 6October 20, 2018 4:09 PM

Yes I have a lifelong fascination with France and would love to live there. I would also love to live in Germany.

by Anonymousreply 7October 20, 2018 4:12 PM

Europe, UK, or Canada? In a heartbeat. I can be a loner anywhere, and it would be more pleasant in a country without Trump and his followers.

by Anonymousreply 8October 20, 2018 4:15 PM

My father always promised me that we would live in France.

by Anonymousreply 9October 20, 2018 4:16 PM

I would love to live in Europe and I couldn't care less about the isolation or cultural shock. I feel no connection to the place I am living right now, or American culture at large, and besides I'm already isolated. Might as well be surrounded by nice architecture.

by Anonymousreply 10October 20, 2018 4:25 PM

When I turn like 50, moving to Paris and staying for good.

by Anonymousreply 11October 20, 2018 4:26 PM

Poll please

by Anonymousreply 12October 20, 2018 4:29 PM

I travel where a lot of Norwegians vacation. I find them very cold as a people and oddly robotic. No sense of humor, follow the rules. Would never want to be around them on a permanent basis.

by Anonymousreply 13October 20, 2018 4:32 PM

Unfortunately you’ll find every country has their deplorables.

by Anonymousreply 14October 20, 2018 4:40 PM

My partner, who is a naturalized US citizen originally from South Asia, wants us to move to France next year after he retires. I have always lived in the US, but at this point am seriously considering the move.

by Anonymousreply 15October 20, 2018 4:52 PM

I would in a heartbeat. I lived in London when I was younger -- on a temporary work visa -- and, last year, I contacted a lawyer to see if I could move there or to OZ permanently. I, alas, am older and an artist, neither category that is desirable for emigration. OZ would be impossible, but England would be somewhat doable, but I would have to invest a few hundred thousand dollars in a local business. If I had it, Brexit might make me think twice about emigrating, but, in the end, I still would.

by Anonymousreply 16October 20, 2018 4:59 PM

I’m Irish have lived in England, Belgium, France, southern Italy and the US. I would chose a large American city or a liberal American college town over any of the above, with the slight exception of moving into a liberal bubble in London or Paris, both of which are outrageously expensive. Unless I had tons of money, didn’t need to work and could spend my days secluded in the countryside. We’re most likely going to retire to the US or Canada and we were house hunting in the US this summer.

by Anonymousreply 17October 20, 2018 5:01 PM

I never considered it until trump was elected. I'm too old now but think maybe I should have taken the job I was offered in Bavaria back in the late 80s. At this point I'm retired and too old to be accepted in a foreign country.

I spent the last two winters in Australia and was shocked at the cost of housing in all of their big cities. I think they are allowing the Chinese to buy and it's driving their cost of housing up astronomically. I could not live as well their as I do here.

I'm in Portland, OR and it is very liberal and gorgeous. I'm very upset with the way things are heading. I'm so pissed at the trump supporters, I have none left in my life that I know of.

by Anonymousreply 18October 20, 2018 5:16 PM

Oops, there not their.

by Anonymousreply 19October 20, 2018 5:17 PM

My parents escaped Ireland. Their stories and spending summers there gave me perspective - no matter how crazy, capitalist, deplorable the US may be, it is a blessing to live here. I love Europe and South America but I would never give up my life in the US. The opportunities I’ve had here are incomparable to anywhere else in the world. I hate a lot of our politics and inequality - but all in all, grateful to live here.

by Anonymousreply 20October 20, 2018 5:25 PM

Why are most ' out' homosexuals so poor?

by Anonymousreply 21October 20, 2018 5:28 PM

Uruguay, baby!

by Anonymousreply 22October 20, 2018 5:30 PM

An elderly client and I were talking about just that some time ago (years ago) & I mentioned that I wanted to move to Europe. She said do it--now . . . of course, life gets in the way, & I never made good on those plans. We had narrowed our US relocation plans to Asheville adjacent, but with NC's recent damage, we really don't know. Have travelled/worked abroad, & our top choices at the moment are Southern Spain (Mijas), or Berlin. We're both just retired, I may be able to acquire Irish/EU citizenship through late mother, so everything's up in the air. The world is such a circus right now!

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by Anonymousreply 23October 20, 2018 5:33 PM

Op, I'd recommend spending time in Sweden before you pull the trigger. People are kind but far colder than Americans, somehow.

by Anonymousreply 24October 20, 2018 5:36 PM

Not necessarily "poor", R21, but older than many countries want--unless you are a millionaire. They do not want older adults who may end up being a drain on their social services systems, which I can't blame them for. Either a job offer of the ability to demonstrably be able to support yourself without government assistance is a requirement of many, if not most, countries. Those are requirements the US should have also adopted years ago.

by Anonymousreply 25October 20, 2018 5:36 PM

And give up New Jersey? Never.

by Anonymousreply 26October 20, 2018 5:39 PM

r26 = Teresa Giudice

by Anonymousreply 27October 20, 2018 5:41 PM

Please just GTFO and drag your fat blatino husbear with you...

by Anonymousreply 28October 20, 2018 5:41 PM

A simple move from NYC to San Francisco caused me a lot of grief in lost pizza and good bagels. These are things to consider.

by Anonymousreply 29October 20, 2018 5:43 PM

Corn.

by Anonymousreply 30October 20, 2018 5:45 PM

Mary r23 photo looks exactly like where we are now-Tossa de Mar for the AA conventia!

by Anonymousreply 31October 20, 2018 5:50 PM

Um r25 they are the same requirements the US has had for a few decade. I know because I’ve worked there on many temp visas and have tried to move permanently but I can’t. Remember European countries have plenty of migrants from the poorer EU countries like Poland, Lithuania, Latvia etc who are blamed for draining our social services too.

R20 Lovely post. I’m Irish. Tradition here was the oldest son inherited the farm. Both of my grandfathers were the eldest son who got the farm. However my grabdfather’s 6 siblings all emigrated to America. My grandmother had 11 siblings in America and 2 in England and all had lives they could never had lived here. I think it would be incredible sad if Americans started emigrating here to be honest. It would be proof that the great social excitement that is the USA has failed beyond repair. I think a wealthy, retired American could spent a lovely few weeks here in a fancy holiday home they build or a castle or cottage they convert but living here as a working stiff? Nope there are better opportunities in US, Canada and Australia. I have lived in France and Belgium too and there’s a very loud and sizeable right wing that are not easy to escape.

by Anonymousreply 32October 20, 2018 5:55 PM

I live on Key West - it’s far enough away and isolated to feel like it’s own country

by Anonymousreply 33October 20, 2018 5:55 PM

Hell yes! I like that in the UK and much of Europe there is a safety net. There is always housing (actual private house or apt), free healthcare, and social services. You won't be homeless or w/o healthcare unless you try. No at will firing in the UK - you are on contracts that require something like 3 months notice prior to termination w/ full pay. If something happens in the US and on your own, you are totally fucked.

by Anonymousreply 34October 20, 2018 5:57 PM

America is going to get better, not worse.

The grass is always greener on the other side until you get there where you can then see the weeds.

by Anonymousreply 35October 20, 2018 5:57 PM

* social experiment

Btw R20 Id love to hear more about the summers you spent in Ireland. I’m from County Kerry.

by Anonymousreply 36October 20, 2018 5:57 PM

[quote] America is going to get better, not worse.

It will get better, but it may take a decade. How long before we have universal healthcare, R35?

by Anonymousreply 37October 20, 2018 5:58 PM

R33, I lived in Key West too, and not counting your handful of Canadians and Brits, you're srrounded by mostly people from Ohio and Michigan.

by Anonymousreply 38October 20, 2018 5:59 PM

And mainland Florida, r38.

Look away, OP.

by Anonymousreply 39October 20, 2018 6:02 PM

R33 it is ..Conch Republic.

for myself, I have resigned to staying here, migrating ultimately between Palm Springs and Northern Michigan.

by Anonymousreply 40October 20, 2018 6:03 PM

Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, and Estonia are all beautiful countries. I'd move to any of the above in a second if they'd take me. I'm from the deep south , and I hate the heat, humidity, and Trumpanzees down here.

by Anonymousreply 41October 20, 2018 6:04 PM

R34. In theory yes but in practice no. I do not have free healthcare, I don’t have access to government housing. When I was made redundant I received €188 per week. Because I had 27,000 in the bank I did not qualify for housing assistance and they took 20 away from me every week because of my “means”. When I was self employed I got nothing. I didn’t qualify for unemployed and nothing was free not even a dental check even though I was paying more tax than an employee on the same money. When I needed surgery I couldn’t afford to go private so I had to wait 8 months just to see a consultant. Our system benefits the rich and the very poor. The middle are fucked because we earn too much to get social assistance but not enough to actually afford to pay for private healthcare, afford home ownership. Some people so just say fuck it and draw benefits for life especially in rural towns with no employment but that life is so depressing and hopeless.

Not saying I’d swap and bring the American system here but our system is not as straight forward as many Americans seem to think.

by Anonymousreply 42October 20, 2018 6:06 PM

If I could, I think Canada would be nice. I don't mind winter.

by Anonymousreply 43October 20, 2018 6:10 PM

What R2 said is correct. The Scandinavian/Nordic countries do not like immigrants, unless they are white-European, and are actually not that nice to live. They are extremely expensive to live in, have extremely high taxes, very high rates of depression and alcoholism, cold weather, very conformist society, and Neo-Nazi groups are very popular in Scandinavian countries and even Central European countries like Denmark.

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by Anonymousreply 44October 20, 2018 6:11 PM

OP, have you considered British Columbia in Canada? It's a nice northern temperature, close enough to tne US to come back when/if you need to, on occasion. I hear good things about the Vancouver area and surrounding islands, and their outrageous beauty.

by Anonymousreply 45October 20, 2018 6:13 PM

[quote] probably one of the Scandinavian countries, Sweden or Norway.

Of course. Every single person who says they're leaving the U.S because of Trump, always chose the whitest countries they can think of. Never Asia, never Central America, never Africa. Funny isn't it?

by Anonymousreply 46October 20, 2018 6:13 PM

Donegal here R32. Strangely, Dad inherited the farm but snuck out at 32 and took boat to US leaving his younger brother to deal with family and farm. Homesick the rest of his life but we were able to spend a few weeks each summer - and realized why he left. Back then, a remote oppressive simple and poor life. If stunningly beautiful.

The myth of the American Dream was strong then. As karma would have it, the farm is now worth over million euro and my Dad worked his ass off all his life in US and died young without much. But all us kids did well. Now there is plenty of opportunity in Ireland and it’s much more modern and less oppressive. But would still choose US.

by Anonymousreply 47October 20, 2018 6:14 PM

My Partner is German so we've looked at the option of moving there several times, we've even come close to buying a house there. Now that we're close to retiring the only thing that's stopping us is my partner's family and all the drama that goes with it. He's very happy to have an ocean between us and them. If and when his mother dies we might still do it, but every year that passes we get older and the odds of us ever doing it go down.

Oner of the big problems is my status as an American citizen. I'm not guaranteed any sort of citizenship because I'm married to a German. Not a problem as long as he's alive, but if we move there and he dies, my life gets very complicated.

by Anonymousreply 48October 20, 2018 6:15 PM

R3, Curious is Americans who've moved to NZ are actually truly happier. Didn't they put a restriction on foreigners buying property?

by Anonymousreply 49October 20, 2018 6:18 PM

Thanks for that R20. Donegal is very similar to Kerry where I’m from.

by Anonymousreply 50October 20, 2018 6:19 PM

“Of course. Every single person who says they're leaving the U.S because of Trump, always chose the whitest countries they can think of. Never Asia, never Central America, never Africa. Funny isn't it?”

Ouch. But true.

by Anonymousreply 51October 20, 2018 6:19 PM

[quote]Oner of the big problems is my status as an American citizen. I'm not guaranteed any sort of citizenship because I'm married to a German.

You cannot get a resident status in Germany if married to a German citizen?

by Anonymousreply 52October 20, 2018 6:20 PM

[quote]“Of course. Every single person who says they're leaving the U.S because of Trump, always chose the whitest countries they can think of. Never Asia, never Central America, never Africa. Funny isn't it?”

People look at the next most prosperous place where they could easily adjust. Nothing wrong with that.

by Anonymousreply 53October 20, 2018 6:22 PM

Very true R32, there are large right wing/neo nazi groups in different European countries which are difficult to escape. Also, you are correct that the quality of life and being able to have a higher standard of living and work opportunities were far better for people who emigrated to the United States, Australia, Brasil/Argentina, and Canada than for the family members who stayed in their original countries.

by Anonymousreply 54October 20, 2018 6:23 PM

R46 has a misplaced bad attitude. Kathmandu was my home for eleven years, followed by Benin, Togo and the Cameroon. I'm of Irish ancestry. American by birth.

There are thousands of US ex-pats across the globe, driven by not much more than an intellectual curiousity.

Do it, OP. It serves your biographers well.

by Anonymousreply 55October 20, 2018 6:36 PM

R46, you're maudlin and full of self-pity. You're magnificent.

by Anonymousreply 56October 20, 2018 6:53 PM

I have a different perspective, R20 and R32. I find life in Ireland pretty good. If it is or was oppressive, it was due to a parasite class. The same types are still in power, still forcing people out so they can maintain their position. Neo-liberalism empowers them the more. But I'd rather be here than anywhere else.

by Anonymousreply 57October 20, 2018 6:54 PM

[quote] There are thousands of US ex-pats across the globe, driven by not much more than an intellectual curiousity.

Yes, but those aren't the people that R46 was addressing, It's the ones who claim they're leaving because of Trump and his anti-immigrant policies, and those are the ones who always pick Sweden, Canada, Australia, etc. It's called hypocrisy.

by Anonymousreply 58October 20, 2018 6:58 PM

R46 If I was to go anywhere, it would probably be to Africa -- somewhere simple, along the edge of the Sahara. I would love to help with the building of the Green Wall. There's something very satisfying in making a small change for the better every day.

But I'll probably stay here and vote and try to get others to vote... and then, in the spring, plant some more Ponderosa pines on the side of the mountain where I really live.

by Anonymousreply 59October 20, 2018 7:01 PM

In heartbeat. I'm ashamed to be an American. This is from someone who as a kid used to tear up at the sight of the American flag. Maybe things will change after the election, but I have no faith in Democrats voting.

by Anonymousreply 60October 20, 2018 7:07 PM

If it weren't so difficult, I would leave my apartment.

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by Anonymousreply 61October 20, 2018 7:12 PM

R59, I just lost it

by Anonymousreply 62October 20, 2018 7:13 PM

Does anyone feel completely alienated and disconnected from American culture at large? I dislike the boorish Trump administration and followers, but I feel equally disconnected from the sjw, twitter mob left who seem equally bloodthirsty and willing to destroy lives.

by Anonymousreply 63October 20, 2018 7:17 PM

R62 See... I amused you. I've already made this world a better place in a teeny tiny way.

by Anonymousreply 64October 20, 2018 7:18 PM

I need a list.

Assemble me a list of where I can find both Aldi and Dollar Tree.

by Anonymousreply 65October 20, 2018 7:19 PM

R63 You’ll find the same two competing cultures in almost all western countries.

by Anonymousreply 66October 20, 2018 7:24 PM

R46, have you ever considered that overall climate may have a lot to do with one's choices? For those who enjoy a cooler climate and winter, Scandinavia makes perfect sense. You couldn't pay me enough to live in the heat of Central America or Africa. No fucking way! Plus, quality of life is highest in the Scandinavian countries. (Although I will admit that as far as climate is concerned, it's pretty much hit-or-miss anymore.)

by Anonymousreply 67October 20, 2018 7:26 PM

My father lived in Paris for 45 years. Then he got ill and came back. He never could have survived in Paris because he had to have his leg amputated and he said they would not treat him well as he would be disabled.

you don't realize how safe you feel in your own country until you are somewhere else and something happens and all you want is to go Home.

by Anonymousreply 68October 20, 2018 7:27 PM

R66 I don't know, it seems like a very stressful social environment here in the US. You get into an argument with a stranger over a parking space and the next minute you're on YouTube. I'm actually alot more hesitant to go out because of this camera phone culture. One mistake or bad day and your life is destroyed.Alot of these twitter, social media activists come across as bullies more than anything. And our media helps abet this culture.

by Anonymousreply 69October 20, 2018 7:29 PM

Pairagays, of course.

by Anonymousreply 70October 20, 2018 7:39 PM

[quote]You get into an argument with a stranger over a parking space

How is it you find yourself in them often enough to have to avoid going out?

by Anonymousreply 71October 20, 2018 7:48 PM

I did it and never looked back. I left in the 90's to work in Europe, thinking I'd come back in a couple of years. However, there never seemed to be a reason to come back. I'm a native New Yorker, and I can't imagine living out in the US boondocks somewhere (hell, I can't even imagine living in a city that doesn't have an opera house), and I frankly couldn't afford to live in NYC at anything like the standard I have now.

Of course, it helped me that I knew the language and had a path to citizenship through family background, but I know several Americans who didn't have that and stayed anyway, finding employer sponsorship or a local spouse. None of them wants to move back to the US. One of my American friends, another native New Yorker, is married to a Swiss guy. Her husband was actually offered a job in NYC recently, and he wants to take it, but she really doesn't want to go back even on an expat package. She says she couldn't get her kids into top schools in New York because she would have had to sign them up years ago for that, and she really doesn't want to deal with the noise and stress and the attitude of the city with kids.

by Anonymousreply 72October 20, 2018 7:49 PM

Cradling R59 close, so close.

by Anonymousreply 73October 20, 2018 7:50 PM

R71 I don't. But I'm wary of a culture where a single mistake can ruin someone's life

by Anonymousreply 74October 20, 2018 8:07 PM

If all the people who didn't like President Obama, left when he was elected and all the people left who don't like trump now, the native Americans could have their country back.

These things come and go in waves, since 1945 the parties controlling the Presidency has switched back and forth at least every eight years except once. People perpetually seem to want change and it isn't like this isn't happening to some degree in every developed country. Even Scandinavian countries are seeing an increase in the right wing parties. It annoys me when people want to run away from their problems instead of staying and trying to fix them.

by Anonymousreply 75October 20, 2018 8:10 PM

Why do you deem people who leave the US to be "run[ning] away from their problems," R75. Perhaps they are seeking new adventures or new challenges. Perhaps they want to experience life in another culture.

by Anonymousreply 76October 20, 2018 8:39 PM

R76 is Tard

by Anonymousreply 77October 20, 2018 8:45 PM

I'm so sick of all this leave America threads. Just fkin leave already. You that scared of Trump. Not willing to put up the good fight. Just go, you weak cunt.

by Anonymousreply 78October 20, 2018 8:50 PM

I have a Swedish "green card" (Uppehållskort), so I could resettle there and bring my husband and daughter. As others have said upstream, it is wildly expensive and the natives have somewhat cold personalities. But wages are high, social services are platinum plated, and there is comfort in knowing nobody really suffers from lacking basic necessities to live.

My biggest pause comes from the fact that Swedes, generally, are closet racists. I'm a white guy and my Swedish friends and acquaintances use no filters around me. It still startles me when I hear them talk about immigrants, especially swarthy ones. And they vote for conservatives secretly then falsely feign despair when the nationalists win governmental elections.

by Anonymousreply 79October 20, 2018 8:55 PM

I love the United States. I’m one of those Americans who got in her car in her 20s, and drive EVERYWHERE.

We live in one of the most beautiful countries on earth. From the Cali coast, to Montana, to the vast cornfields in the Midwest. Texas sucked, however. Because of the people, mostly.

And this is what we are all currently experiencing. The media either loves or hates Trump, but let’s face it: he’s fabulous for their ratings.

If we all left, America would die off, as we know it.

We must talk to our friends, neighbors, coworkers, people on the train, the bus, our Uber drivers. We have to tell them how important it is to vote in our upcoming midterms. It’s our only way out of this. We can do it. Even just one conversation can make a huge difference.

by Anonymousreply 80October 20, 2018 9:42 PM

[quote] I think America is only going to get worse.

Sadly, I agree. Racism is its downfall. It was always there but now it is unchecked. It's used to deny social justice and dismantle values at every level.

Ironically, diversity and immigration were the source of America's genius. Now those are being turned off or suppressed.

I don't see any serious move to address this. And that accounts for my pessimism. I look more to Europe now.

by Anonymousreply 81October 20, 2018 9:52 PM

I lived in a foreign (non-English-speaking) country for a year (I'm a US citizen). Not being proficient in the language was hugely alienating for me. Also, I realized that so many things that I just took for granted as "the way things are" were really part of American culture, not universal culture. Living away actually made me appreciate the U.S.

by Anonymousreply 82October 20, 2018 9:54 PM

Europe?

The original home of racism?

by Anonymousreply 83October 20, 2018 9:54 PM

R23 If your Mom was born in Ireland, you get a passport. No problems. Seamless travel within the EU, a multitude of other countries, and a highly valued passport to have.

by Anonymousreply 84October 20, 2018 9:56 PM

I hate Europe and would love to move to the US but can't because of Visa requirements. If someone wants to trade citizenships, I'm all for it. It's 3 years you have to be married to get US citizenship, right? Full Social Security, one of the best Healthcare Systems in Europe and the weather in Berlin is better than in Scandinavia....

by Anonymousreply 85October 20, 2018 9:58 PM

Where in Europe, R85? It's not the same to be living in Romania or Norway,

by Anonymousreply 86October 20, 2018 10:13 PM

[quote] Europe? The original home of racism?

True, but other superior values hold it in check post WW2. Their leaders by and large subscribe to these cohesive healthy values as well. Sure, there are some bad spots but the whole fruit is not rotting.

It used to be the case in the US too that the good outbalanced the bad, but no more. I fear the tipping point is past. The good values are being stripped away at an alarming pace, with the leaders out in front of the dismantling.

by Anonymousreply 87October 20, 2018 10:19 PM

R86 Berlin is in Germany not Romania

by Anonymousreply 88October 20, 2018 10:53 PM

Oh, yes, I missed the Berlin part.

To be honest, R85's post is a big confusing.

by Anonymousreply 89October 20, 2018 11:00 PM

R88, you are also R85? Why not say so?

by Anonymousreply 90October 20, 2018 11:01 PM

Yeah, if I could, I'd head for New Zealand. Staggeringly beautiful country, lovely people, functioning democracy, what's not to love!

The US is falling to bits.

by Anonymousreply 91October 20, 2018 11:10 PM

Finland

by Anonymousreply 92October 20, 2018 11:22 PM

Finland, Finland, Finland The country where I quite want to be Your mountains so lofty Your treetops so tall Finland, Finland, Finland Finland has it all!

by Anonymousreply 93October 21, 2018 12:46 AM

This is a dilemma. I retired early and my husband is 5 years younger than I am. He is also very successful and will probably work for another decade.

We have a house in the country, totally isolated, so I can get away, but I really want to be in a coastal community not in the USA at least 3 months a year.

I’m thinking of just going ahead and doing it. My husband can visit me a couple of times every year while I’m away.

by Anonymousreply 94October 21, 2018 1:05 AM

Yes. Choosing between Mexico and Ecuador.

by Anonymousreply 95October 21, 2018 1:06 AM

[quote]I hate Europe and would love to move to the US but can't because of Visa requirements.

So get a MasterCard! Problem solved!

by Anonymousreply 96October 21, 2018 1:18 AM

I always wanted to relocate to Australia or New Zealand, but truthfully, I don't think I could live that far from family. It doesn't always seem like it would be such a big deal, but in fact, it is. I always thought in terms of how many hours away by plane either move would be. That wasn't really honest thinking. When one moves that far away, distance and time cause a true separation from one's immediate family. I know I will always be close by and not living on the other side of the world.

by Anonymousreply 97October 21, 2018 1:20 AM

Baja California. That way I can continue to go to the VA for my healthcare and if I have a craving for some kind of American food, I can still get it.

by Anonymousreply 98October 21, 2018 1:29 AM

I am one of those eldergay types. I am relatively healthy and have a good heart and am rather compassionate. As a result, and as a result of being the only person able to "help" and support a small handful of my incredible shrinking family who are NOT relatively healthy, the idea of leaving the usa ( I aint gonna capitalize anything just cuz trump thinks i should) is not currently possible. That also means, due to general life expectancy stats, that I will not get a chance to make such a bold move as to move from this fucked up country. Instead I will keep trying to help family members, hate republicans, drink large quantities of craft beers a few times a week, and live in Illinois till I die.

by Anonymousreply 99October 21, 2018 1:31 AM

Cheers R99 - a noble kind and caring man

by Anonymousreply 100October 21, 2018 1:37 AM

^^^^^ Hear! Hear!

by Anonymousreply 101October 21, 2018 1:40 AM

I was abroad for years. Mostly in SE Asia and Latin America. I have been back in the USA for a while and can honestly say I would leave tomorrow if I could. My husband is somewhat younger than me and involved in his career so leaving would be hard. Worrying about visas isn't a big deal. There are lots of places that would take me.

by Anonymousreply 102October 21, 2018 1:58 AM

Yes, I would, probably to someplace in British-Columbia, far enough out of town to have some privacy and a little land but close enough so that you can take advantage of the city amenities if you really want to.

by Anonymousreply 103October 21, 2018 2:51 AM

R34

[quote]No at will firing in the UK - you are on contracts that require something like 3 months notice prior to termination w/ full pay.

Doesn’t that distort behavior?

Do systems of reward and punishment no longer apply?

by Anonymousreply 104October 21, 2018 3:18 AM

R55

Bravo.

I think I’m adventurous for living in multiple US cities and visiting every naturally inhabited continent, but kudos to you!

Camaroon? When? I visited +/-20 years ago.

by Anonymousreply 105October 21, 2018 3:27 AM

Lol at R59

Subtle parody is best.

by Anonymousreply 106October 21, 2018 3:28 AM

R68

There is no “home” anymore. The world is our village.

by Anonymousreply 107October 21, 2018 3:32 AM

Kiwi here, we do not want you, please stop in Australia and stay

by Anonymousreply 108October 21, 2018 3:37 AM

What possibly makes the OP think Norway or Sweden would want you?

The USA has the most open liberal immigration policies of any developed nation and more than most underdeveloped ones.

If you had any skills you could go to Norway and Sweden or almost any other country easily. In fact, places like New Zealand and Australia allow you to buy your way in, if you can put up enough money. (Something the US to a degree also does but less blatantly).

by Anonymousreply 109October 21, 2018 6:11 AM

Talar du svenska, OP?

by Anonymousreply 110October 21, 2018 10:17 AM

You may want to know about the happiest countries in the world. The blue flowers are from Helsinki.

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by Anonymousreply 111October 21, 2018 11:25 AM

If you want to "detach" from the US but don't have the means to emigrate, move to Hawaii. Yes, expensive, especially food but between the time zone difference and literally being in the middle of the Pacific, all that Trump noise will be far away. Endless sunshine, peaceful ocean waves, calming trade winds...you don't have to fight the climate like you do on the mainland.

There are plenty of drawbacks of course but if you want a break from Trumpistan, think about it.

by Anonymousreply 112October 21, 2018 1:25 PM

R112 Hawaii's beautiful but I have heard that the people tend to be unfriendly to newcomers

by Anonymousreply 113October 21, 2018 1:29 PM

Oh yes, it's a bit of a shock, suddenly being a "minority". Makes you realise.

by Anonymousreply 114October 21, 2018 5:33 PM

I left during the George W Bush era, thinking it couldn't get worse. So glad I did it back then already!

by Anonymousreply 115October 21, 2018 5:44 PM

Where are you? Anything you miss?

by Anonymousreply 116October 21, 2018 6:21 PM

I find it interesting that most of those countries classified as the happiest places on Earth, also tend to have the highest suicide rates. Maybe they should be classified as places people claim to be happy.

by Anonymousreply 117October 21, 2018 6:48 PM

[quote] Why do you deem people who leave the US to be "run[ning] away from their problems," [R75].

Why R76 do you make an assumption that I make a judgement about people in general who leave the US? I was replying to the OP's post where they said "At this point, I think America is only going to get worse." Do tell me your interpretation of that statement that doesn't involve running away from something. This should be interesting.

by Anonymousreply 118October 21, 2018 6:55 PM

After I retired in 2016 I started a multi-year travel adventure in Europe. I've been making friends in different countries as I've traveled. It could just be me, but I've found that people are willing to talk and be friendly if you're willing to open up and listen. So far this has been the case. Even when I've stayed in the Scandinavian countries, they are as friendly and helpful as anywhere else. Next year I'm slowing down my travels and will spend more time in several of my favorite countries, without exceeding limited stay restrictions of course. I'm not ready to settled down in one country, but I know it is possible. And as some have pointed out, some countries would be more difficult than others. Do I hate the U.S.? No, I don't. I just like hanging around in different countries and meeting new people. Also, I've had friends visit me here and we have a great time. Perhaps I'll marry someone over here.

by Anonymousreply 119October 21, 2018 7:24 PM

I'm working here in the USA for two more years in order to fully vest in my pension. Then, I'm selling up and moving to Canada or Europe. My birth country is becoming more unrecognizable to me with each passing day.

I'm an Irish citizen and got my Irish passport years ago, so I can move to any country in the EU when I finish working. Unlike many other EU citizens, I will also have the right to live and receive services in the UK post-Brexit, according to everything I've been reading about the future of the Ireland/UK Common Travel Area. Not that long ago, I lived in Ireland for several years and feel at home there.

Canada would be easier, because I live near Seattle, only three hours from Vancouver. I could sell up and simply drive over the border, taking my pension and Social Security payments with me. As a Canadian citizen registered at birth and finally in possession of my Canadian passport, I would be eligible to receive services in British Columbia after 90 days of residency.

Living in greater London would be more fun, but British Columbia would be easier in practical terms.

by Anonymousreply 120October 21, 2018 7:36 PM

Ireland London and British Columbia have all gotten expensive. Unless you are willing to live in the Irish countryside or smaller towns in Ireland or BC.

by Anonymousreply 121October 21, 2018 7:45 PM

I immigrated to New Zealand as a kid and a little later to the US. We yo-yoed between the two countries. We were eligible for citizenship in both. Just as I became a teen my mom settled on the US and we left NZ for the last time and eventually became US citizens. Everyone else on my mother's side of the family stayed down under and now they all live in OZ/NZ. Sometimes I wonder what my life would have been like if we had opted for Kiwi citizenship. Most likely would have followed my uncles and grandparents, who left NZ for OZ (a lot of Kiwis do).

My mother said she didn't have the option for citizenship for both countries. If we had taken NZ citizenship, we would have lost our return/residency rights in the US. This was the 80's and US citizenship was an invaluable commodity. Maybe, but my mom's family in OZ/NZ were/are much better off economically than we are. My mom was a single parent with two kids and in terms of social welfare, she would have been better off staying in NZ. My aunt in NZ was also a single parent and she had more help--from the government and family. My mom left that behind when we were in the US.

In any case, the mega millions had me fantasizing of all the things I would do...and moving back to NZ on a part time basis was on the bucket list. And after not winning a single penny, it shifted from fantasy to actually contemplating retirement in NZ. It was the first time I had thought it and it made me very nostalgic. I wondered why I hadn't thought of it before. Immigration is very tough now, much changed from the 80's but I wonder how far I would get if I really tried. Unfortunately, uncles, aunt, cousins, grandparents aren't close enough relations to get me sponsored. My aunt recently remarried and her husband has a son who is middle-aged and single. She told me that if I was ever desperate and serious enough about moving back to NZ--she suggested a marriage of convenience with him.

by Anonymousreply 122October 21, 2018 7:54 PM

The thing is, many people currenty talking about upping and leaving The US are often people who either, never lived outside The US or did 10-20+ years ago. They have travel advertisement images in their head of where they think they're going or images from a culture from 20+ years ago. Those travel images might be accurate for a visit but living in a different country permanently is entirely something else. You have to sincerely think of your lifestyle, who you are personality wise and how you interact with others publicly.

For instance, Sweden might be a great place to visit if you want to spend time in beautiful, rural lake districts but if you're someone who runs your "mouth" online and it's considered offensive, you might get a visit from police for it. Swedes might expect this and check themselves accordingly but it could be culture shock to someone who has only lived in The US for most of their life and last remembers being in Sweden in 1979. Like all countries and nations, Sweden have their own problems they're trying to currently deal with and they might be entirely different problems or evolved problems from since the last time you visited. Americans just assume we can barge into anywhere on Earth and still act like loudly opinionated Americans and it won't cause us problems.

We're a big, loud country and promiscuous with our culture around the world, so many forget that we're in other people's "homes", with their own "house rules" when outside The US. It's not just about where you wish to move to but if you'd even fit in there, if you'd even be a welcome member of that society.

by Anonymousreply 123October 21, 2018 7:57 PM

I have the money, r121. I'm just augmenting my retirement savings in these last two years at work at a nonprofit org. I've lived in London, lived in Dublin, and now I live in Seattle, which is not exactly cheap. I've been careful with saving and investing, and I'll be dragging quite a war chest with me whichever way I jump.

I've just had it with the hateful politics and dog-eat-dog philosophy of the USA today.

by Anonymousreply 124October 21, 2018 7:59 PM

If I won the lottery, most of the money would go to charity, and I'd buy a nice little cottage near my loved ones.

But I'd also buy a bolthole in a stable and democratic country like Canada or New Zealand, and start the process of establishing residence rights. The thing is, I don't see how I'm going to be able to afford to leave the US without some sort of surprise cash infusion, I'm too old to be desirable to overseas employers, and not rich enough to buy my way in at an advanced age. I'm also not rich enough to either bring my nearest and dearest with me, or eager to move a continent or two away from those I love, and who might be there for me when I'm old and ill. Immigrating when you're old and single is not something to be done lightly.

by Anonymousreply 125October 22, 2018 3:03 AM

R117, they're happy after you subtract the suicides.

by Anonymousreply 126October 22, 2018 2:50 PM

I'd go to Canada. You want milder weather go to Vancouver. You don't mnd winter go to the rest of the country.

by Anonymousreply 127October 22, 2018 2:58 PM

[R116} I'm in London, but I'd rather be in Berlin. Unfortunately, although my family background means I have the right to live and work in the UK, the same is not true for Germany. I'm [R115]. The English are two-faced and hypocritical about many thing -- or, as they like to think, polite. But I don't miss the gun culture, the horrible blame-the-poor culture, and the permeation of public life by Christianity. Frankly, I don't miss living in the US at all.

by Anonymousreply 128October 22, 2018 3:41 PM

Hot young gays have no problem moving to Europe. Jobs materialize even with no work visa and landing a husband is no problem.

Its worthwhile to visit, make friends and explore opportunities.

A graduate Masters course abroad s a sure way to become integrated and land a job after the one year program.

So many ways to make the move. Just need to do the research and plan ahead.

by Anonymousreply 129October 22, 2018 4:42 PM

R111, it's hard to believe that the U.S. is higher than Spain and France in those happiness rankings!

And R112 makes an interesting suggestion re: Hawaii, which always takes the top spot on U.S. state happiness rankings. Can any Hawaiian DLers weigh in? Are there certain cities, professions, etc. that improve a mainlander's chance of assimilating?

by Anonymousreply 130October 22, 2018 6:19 PM

Isn't Hawaii hideously expensive though?

by Anonymousreply 131October 23, 2018 1:31 AM

A young woman friend from college married and moved to Europe for her work. Her husband is American too. They lived in the UK and she would travel to Germany from time to time for work. The London area proved expensive and when she had an opportunity for a job transfer she and her young family (two little ones) moved to Portugal. They love Europe. They've been there for more than 8 years. The family has great healthcare, and they don't miss the gun culture, the extremism and the racism, etc. They are happy and they live a good life. They come back to visit family every other year, but they said they will never come back here. In her husband's works:"What do they have to offer that we don't get here?"

by Anonymousreply 132October 23, 2018 1:48 AM

Hold tight, op. Things go in cycles, here. Unless two terms go by and he refuses to budge, you know that no US President is in power forever. We have terms limits and this system allows for corrections on all kinds of extreme pendulum swings. If you don't like how things are going on the macro level, start focusing on the micro, on doing things in your community to reflect your values.

I wouldn't leave just for the sake of the current cycle of politics.

by Anonymousreply 133October 23, 2018 1:56 AM

R119, with your long stays in these countries do you rent an apartment in each one? Do you have a permanent place or are you always traveling?

by Anonymousreply 134October 23, 2018 2:08 AM

Hell, yes.

by Anonymousreply 135October 23, 2018 3:06 AM

I could move to Ireland if I wanted, but I don't want. I'm not crazy about the Irish. My Irish family (mother's side) was mean, nasty, racist & crazy. They wouldn't pay for me to go to college because it would make me liberal and take me away from the church. Besides, they didn't get to go to college, so why should I? Did I think I was better than they are? Every person I grew up with went to college because their parents wanted them to have a better life. I wasn't supposed to have a better life because that would be getting above myself

Fuck the church.

by Anonymousreply 136October 23, 2018 3:13 AM

My uneducated Irish parents instilled in me from day one that my main goal was to go to college and their main goal was to get me there. Since they never got an education, they valued it more highly. So I think your Moms family was unique. Most Irish (not Irish Americans) value education very highly. It’s what drove the Celtic Tiger because Ireland - even when poor - prioritized and spent money on education. Ireland is also the country that VOTED by popular majority to approve gay marriage. So I think you are mixing up Irish Americans - who absorbed some of the worst elements of America - with the Irish.

by Anonymousreply 137October 23, 2018 3:21 AM

Nope, Miss Knowitall. They were Irish, which is why I have Irish citizenship.

by Anonymousreply 138October 23, 2018 3:25 AM

r117, I thought about that as well. There seems to be a geographical element as well, with many of the top countries located in northern Europe which has very little sunlight during the winter months. That is linked to increased seasonal affective disorder and depression rates. Also the happiest countries are universally all majority white, like 90%. That is very telling and a bit discomforting.

by Anonymousreply 139October 23, 2018 3:28 AM

I agree, America is just getting worse. For 40 years we have allowed racist propaganda to destroy our country. Why did we do that? We could have made laws against the constant lies and half truths.

by Anonymousreply 140October 23, 2018 3:32 AM

r140, Its because we are the only first world country that has such a large nonwhite population. People say Americans are racist but other first world, rich nations would probably be more conservative if they didn't have such strong ethnic homogeny. And that is starting to change. Look at Brexit. I think its human nature. People won't partake in socialistic capitalism when the nation is not one major race for some reason. Most people have a basic IQ, and live off fear.

by Anonymousreply 141October 23, 2018 3:37 AM

Compare to Australian cities, the U S looks like a dump. The cities all have free wifi in their central business district, and clean busses and trains.

by Anonymousreply 142October 23, 2018 3:38 AM

Our country will always look shabby next to countries where the rich pay taxes.

by Anonymousreply 143October 23, 2018 3:52 AM

Well done R143 . Perfect summary.

by Anonymousreply 144October 23, 2018 5:34 AM

R15, maybe they are seeking the famous NORWEGIAN WOOD?

by Anonymousreply 145October 23, 2018 7:59 AM

So, r111, paying out 60% of your income brings happiness?

by Anonymousreply 146October 23, 2018 8:14 AM

I did it. I left the US.

I made no applications ahead of time and just showed up. Once I was here they had to deal with me.

I came first to Sweden

by Anonymousreply 147October 23, 2018 8:23 AM

Wandering an alternate dimension as a spirit iant so bad, personally. I have all the free time in the (other) world.

by Anonymousreply 148October 23, 2018 8:24 AM

Yes, Steve Mnuchin at r146, paying out 60% of your income in taxes -- if you're rich enough to be in that bracket -- can absolutely make you happy if you're not a greed-consumed sociopath. It pays multiple dividends in the form of functioning public services, a clean environment and general safety.

Normal high-earning people like knowing that their electricity supply is stable, that their bridges are not going to collapse under them, that they can leave the house without a bodyguard or a gun because they won't be attacked by desperate impoverished thugs, that if their fortunes -- god forbid! -- ever change and they need social support it will be available, and that paying their taxes makes all of that possible.

by Anonymousreply 149October 23, 2018 8:38 AM
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