There is NO god

[quote]There is no afterlife. There is only wishful thinking

Sad but true. But eventually science will find a way to keep humans living forever

R1 Vampires

duh......

“There is no god”

There is nothing. We are a simulation. That is all.

So what happens to us when we die ? Nothing! How distressing.

So this is all a random accident, then? The complexity of the human body? The vastness of types and kinds of animals and plants on this tiny earth? The ability of the human mind to create? Self-awareness?

On the bright side, we can do anything we like and no HELL awaits

Even if there is afterlife, I fear there won’t be a gay heaven.

Nonesense. He just didn't know Jesus Christ as his personal lord and accept his salvation. Too bad, so sad. I'll be sitting on a cloud in heaven for all eternity whilst the great Mr. Hawking burns in hell. To put it mildly crudely Jesus's ass must be kissed and if it ain't - you fucked.

I believe in a higher being. The universe is too beautifully constructed not to have a mastermind behind it.

Even if there’s no afterlife, reincarnation is still possible.

^^!🙄

R11 You're welcome!

Wouldn't your mastermind be too beautifully constructed not to have a mastermind behind him/her/it? And the mastermind that created the mastermind - wouldn't that need a mastermind creator as well, ad infinitum?

How can you start from complex out of absolutely nowhere (the mastermind) instead of how it really happened, from rocks or gases or whatever and a single-celled organism accidentally gets created which starts evolving... Something like that is a whole lot easier for me to conceive of than a mastermind just going "poof" and appearing out of absolutely nothing.

I also don't have a problem with infinity in both directions - but in that case, why do you need a mastermind to create things - all the building blocks were always here and there was never a 'beginning' just random development through evolution and chance? It's the same conundrum - I have no bigger problem believing in simply an infinite universe than an infinite mastermind. well, actually, I have less problem believing the universe had no beginning than in a mastermind who had no beginning

[quote]To put it mildly crudely Jesus's ass must be kissed and if it ain't - you fucked.

If I'm kissing Jesus's ass is it okay if I give it some tongue? Call me kinky but would love to do some serious ass play with the savior of all mankind. Do you think Jesus is a top, bottom or versatile? He looks like sort of a wimp so I guessing a bottom (but not pushy - gentle and kind). I think he might enjoy having some animals around like maybe lions and sheep. Just guessing.

There is NO Hawking.

R16, Jesus was everything (top, bottom, versatile) but you wouldn't have had any chance with him, HE had standards and lepers were as low as he would go.

I respect Hawking but every single new scientific discovery, be it at a molecular level or in far space, confirms the existence of a God.

Such a statement would be extremely difficult to accept for most people. To believe that their life doesn't have any purpose, and that once they die they won't matter. Imagine the anarchy.

[quote]To believe that their life doesn't have any purpose, and that once they die they won't matter.

But, the sooner they accept this fact, the happier and more at peace they’ll become.

As a fact this is scientifically proven, and as a millennia-old question considered around the world, treatises and formulas must abound in many languages and translations, but it's weird to me that atheists don't post any links to those science journals showing the controlled studies. They probably do on scholarly forums and at conferences, but are shouted out by those who think merely typing 'There is no god' on an online forum is all that is needed for a convincing argument.

What if God is the universal force that animates all life, similar to Star Wars' the Force?

Haha - religious nuts on Datalounge. R18 - please prove your commitment and turn the other cheek. If no one around slap your self. Really hard

Who knows?

The nose knows ..

We’re not a random accident, as that implies we came to be “suddenly “. But we are evolved from something else that was random, yet painfully slow in the formation of. Not sure what, but it was millions of years in the making.

There is no God in the way we think of god traditionally. And if there is a god, then there are billions of gods, because we are all gods.

But let’s just say, there were a god. I doubt that it would designate us to heaven, or hell. Let’s face it. Heaven would be scarcely populated, and hell would have a HUGE waiting list, the longest line ever, and even under the best conditions, standing room only.

It always bemuses me that we, as a species, have grown to believe all of this stuff, and affix our lives around it.

Being a non believer, causes one to closely examine one’s ethic, values, etc. I have nothing or no one to turn to when I fuck up, and claim that a human sacrifice was made in advanced mitigation of my flaws, in order for me to survive day to day as a human being. I shoulder the entire burden of my stuck ups, which I am solely responsible for. I don’t like feeling bad about myself because I’ve caused another person harm. So though I am human, and inevitably prone to making mistakes and errors, I don’t kill, steal, cheat, etc. Even lying has become highly uncomfortable, because it just isn’t reality to make shit up, and spew it as truth. So if, for example, I’m running late for something, I don’t tell my boss, or whoever, some harmless lie. I tell them I’m running late.

Atheism has really challenged me to live a life that I am 100% responsible for. The buck stops here. Either I come face to face with my humanity, and do my best to live a good life, or I pawn everything onto some mythical creature named satan, and run to Jesus, so that he can kick satan’s ass on my behalf, repeatedly .

No. That’s not the kind of life I want to live.

The people who are the highest power they'll ever know know. They also know that faith, defined as the confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing is pointless. Do not believe anything, just know.

There is a difference between being an atheist, someone who believes there is no god or deity, and people who KNOW there is no god.

The people who KNOW there is no god but won't share proofs (they must have empirical evidence, lots of people convert from theism to atheism for reasons other than being let down or having doubts about their and all other theists' faiths) and their empirical evidence are assholes. How did they learn there is no god, in ways other than losing belief in one major faith or minor cult?

I want to see refutation to Blaise Pascal's Wager. Let's see an updated decision matrix.

I didn't know my grandmother posted on DL but r26 and r27 are definitely my Granny !!

Oh, my dear Lord in Heaven. I'm PRAYIN' for a lot of y'all.

So there’s no devil too ? Or other non human beings ?

Stephen Hawking is a prat.

That was beautifully said R26. You're still going to hell though .

Atheism seldom means, to the individual atheist, that he or she KNOWS for certain that there is no deity.

It almost always simply means that they don't BELIEVE in a deity, be it the Judeo-Christian "God" or Zeus or Ahura-Mazda or Ra or Zoroaster... Everybody is an atheist when it comes to some of the gods that other people believe in.

Well, I assume everybody is. I did meet a guy who was joining the Catholic Church (but continuing to go to his Methodist Church) because he wanted to have both bases covered in case he was wrong. Maybe some people try to worship all the gods they know of, just in case one of them is actually the right one.

When I started seeing all the many religions and realizing they couldn't all be right and then realizing that people made up all those stories -- well, there was no way I could believe in any particular one of them. It just seems silly (to me.) But more power to you if you get comfort out of it, I guess. I used to like astrology - at least it was personalized instead of a general boring story that the church keeps telling over and over... this guy died for your sins so you don't have to sacrifice yourself to a greedy deity - well, some such malarkey. Enough already - I got the story for first few dozen times I heard it! Can't we get some new chapters (enter Joseph Smith or L Ron Hubbard I guess)

r32 - religious fervor on DL - what a hoot. Just like the real world.

Why hasn’t got appeared yet after this long ? If there’s god.

I think these long posts are being copied straight from Quora.

He might be waiting for Halloween for the extra spooky factor, r35.

This is just atheist propaganda. Stephen Hawking had a brilliant intellect when it came to Science but that didn't mean he was an expert on everything. Far from it.

There is a Power that transcends the intellect and the 5 senses. I have found it through prayer and especially meditation - a Power that responds to us and helps us.

God isn't a supernatural man being who lives up in the sky or sits on a throne in heaven but something quite different altogether. The Unknowable can be known to some degree but it's beyond our comprehension on the human level of existence. Let's just says it's complicated. But there IS Something there.

r38 - please go away. You are really awful.

R39 Why? Because I struck a raw nerve with you and actually made you stop and think?

no r40- because you are a blathering idiot ..

R38 is experiencing a neurological response to his own confirmation bias. All of us do this, but it hasn’t quite been figured out what neurological functions are at play when we pray and/or meditate. The sense that we are communicating with an external force, who communicates back, is us, talking to ourselves.

This is why we have philosophy, and why we have this thread.

Maybe R38 is schizophrenic? You might want to see a psychiatrist about the "other worldly voices" you think you're hearing (or that are somehow "coming to you" from the great beyond.)

R42 You're half right. God has planted His divine spark within us but it goes far beyond a neurological response.

You're belief system is very limited and old fashioned.

Nothing comes from nothing...

You can also add r42 to the mentally damaged category

r44 also on serious meds

R43 I don't hear voices. Your concept of a spiritual person is very stereotypical and without knowledge.

God and the universe are one and the same. You're prejudiced by a more primitive mankind's attempt at explaining It. God is all and everything.

Hey - you religious nut jobs can enjoy your conversation. Everyone else has left. I'll check back later and hopefully will have been raptured or something. Go takes your meds and try to relax.

Don't allow these faith less assailed to dissuade you from what you know to be true. Ignore them!

Of course there's a God. What does Hawking think we've been creating for millennia all over the globe. He doesn't know everything. He's not god.

I don't believe in God or Heaven or Hell, but I do believe that when we die our life force does move on to a new plain of existence. Where that is or what type of existence it is, I don't know.

Hawking is #fake news..... God and Jesus isn't

Nothing from nothing leaves nothing. But you gotta have something, if you wanna be with me...

Science knows the universe is over 13 billion years old (probably older). Anyone who believes that some old magical being has been around that long running the show all over the universe is delusional.. What was he doing before he created the universe? Just sitting around playing with himself? If he's real he's done a piss poor job of things.

He was always one of my most flawed creations.

[quote]What was he doing before he created the universe? Just sitting around playing with himself?

Don’t knock it if you haven’t tried it.

[quote] What was he doing before he created the universe?

According to the Jews before the creation of the universe was the word. According to the Hindus it was the sound of om. What about other religions?

Ummm...

Has anyone thought to wonder why the universe would be describable through mathematics? I think it was Einstein who said that God was amathmatician.

Did you know that the Big Bang created timespace? Since time was created at the Big Bang, there is no such thing as “before” the Big Bang.

After the Big Bang, sometime in the first second, the Universe is thought to have expanded faster than the speed of light. I suppose that mathematical limit hadn’t taken effect yet. This expansion is a kind of fudgefactor that makes everything else work correctly.

God is a Woman

Word, om, Big Bang.... what else?

I'm no physicist but I don't think what you said has been definitively proven R60 - that there was nothing before the Big Bang and it created time. (maybe there's a physicist hanging around here who knows more about this?) I don't even think Einstein's theory of "relativity" has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. The nice thing about science is it keeps testing and re-testing and is willing to allow revision, when something thought to be true turns out not to be, when we develop better experiments and observations, etc.

Exploring the universe is a venture beyond our capacity, an indulgence when the planet is dying. Better we turn our best minds inward, to the crisis at hand, instead of feeding the fantasies of robber barons who think they'll be able to afford survival in space.

R38 Struck a nerve? N please. You are just as full of shit as any other believer.

Knowing there is no god is incredibly freeing and empowering on its own. I have known since I was 10 years old, so I have had a lifetime to live as I think best for me and for others without fear of pissing off some Disney character in the sky.

"I respect Hawking but every single new scientific discovery, be it at a molecular level or in far space, confirms the existence of a God."

No, it doesn't. You sound really nuts.

[quote] No, it doesn't. You sound really nuts.

No he doesn't. Most of us are like that. We take objective evidence and use it to corroborate our subjective, our emotional and psychological personality. I am.

This video made a ton of sense regarding the existence of God or “the all.”

R65, has it occurred to you that God wants you to live as you think is best for you and others?

Stephen Hawking was an annoying, philandering scold. If it wasn’t all pc to consider him a genius because of his disability, he’d be recognized for the narcissistic, overrated fraud he was.

How many gods have humans invented throughout history? The number must be in the thousands.

R70 = Donald Trump mocking yet another person with a physical disability, while projecting his own mental deficiencies on them too.

Yes thousands, hundreds of thousands R71 Read The Golden Bough by Frazer for the comparative anthropology of religions. All 12 volumes if you like.

“Your mate Tom” is hot. The Spider-Man explanation at around 3:00 makes a lot of sense.

Heaven isn't proven...but theres thousands of Western kids who know way to much about their previous life to just discount it...let alone billions of NOn westerners whose religion Only believes in reincarnation .

I certainly don't believe in the Abrahamic god. He was created by humans as a way to explain our origins. I do believe there is more going than we can understand. For example, some quantum scientists believe they may have found computer code in our DNA suggesting that we're actually part of some vast simulation. There is also a theory that the universe is actually one vast consciousness. But yes, there is no god, no heaven, no hell.

1.There is no God.

2. There is no afterlife.

3. There is no free will.

4. there is no such thing as consciousness.

5. The universe, outside of the planet Earth, is dead.

Or at least the above seems to be growing scientific consensus.

God, heaven, hell. All abstract nouns. They exist inasmuch abstract nouns we create exist.

R77 no free will? No consciousness? Explain, please.

Big Bang Theory has only been on like 10 years....what the fuck does it have to do with God or Stephen Hawking?

God is an alien

"There's SOMETHING out there, honey."

I don't think that anything or anyone from science has said that the universe outside of the planet earth is dead. In fact, space scientists and cosmologists are convinced that there are billions of planets in the universe with exactly the same building-blocks of life as the earth has, and so the odds of some sort of life existing elsewhere in the universe is in fact extremely likely. However, it is likely that science fiction has led us down a wrong path in suggesting that interstellar travel is possible. The distances are too vast, and there is no known scientific or physical mechanism which can shorten them. We could certainly send machine devices to other stars - but not with living beings in the machines. And they would arrive 10s of thousands of years from now. If we in turn were to receive a "package" from some other planet with intelligent beings, it too would arrive thousands and thousands of years after they sent it. In the meantime, the odds would be good that the forms of life either on earth or elsewhere would have long gone to extinction by the time these machines arrived at their destinations.

Einstein had feelings about God and religions I can relate to. He could not imagine a personal God - a being who was personally concerned with the actions, thoughts, deeds or words of any individual. Nor did he feel that an afterlife existed except as a way for human beings to feel better about death. But he couldn't observe the magnificent workings of the universe without being in awe and conscious of the nothingness of human beings and human intellect in relation to that immensity of time and space and incredible harmony of scientific laws. So, he once referred to himself as being profoundly religious without believing in God. All else that we refer to as being religious he relegated to mythology.

Whether a person is religious or not, there is no set answer to one's purpose in the universe. Why are we here? What are we supposed to be or do? People can make that decision for themselves, but there is no one to say whether that decision is right or wrong. In other words, a person could decide that his purpose was to make the earth a better place as best he could. That's his decision - but there is no one to approve or applaud it, or say that he is doing what he's supposed to be doing. That's why such a question is so difficult.

How interesting! I love these debates. If our lives are truly so meaningless, then why be a "good" person? Granted, you can argue being respectful/ polite will win you favors, but why do something like donate to charity?

One of religion's few good points is that it encourages certain positive values: honesty, compassion etc, bc if you don't practice them you'll go to hell/ be reincarnated into a lower state of being. If we believe in an atheistic world, then what is our impetus for being a "good" person?

People won’t take responsabilityfor their own actions . They love to blame God for everything that happens to them . I for myself have no problem with the fact that there is nothing when I die . You come from nothing and you go back to nothing . They can bury my ashes under a tree or scather them in the wind so I become part of nature .

Bullshit, r84. If you need the stick of posthumous punishment to motivate you to treat others well, then you're a shitty person. I don't believe in any god but I still want to go to my death (after which there will be nothing) proud of the way I conducted myself and treated others. Life is safer and more enjoyable for ourselves and our loved ones if we treat the planet and its inhabitants with a bit of thought & consideration - that's all the motivation I need. If you need to pretend there's a big red dude waiting to stick a pitchfork in your ass to be good, well, you do you, I guess.

R85 You are shit and shit is part of nature, twat.

R70 Agreed. Anyone who has to even ask if there is a god is a fucking moron.

R79 I can't pretend to explain the workings, but there is a belief in some neurological circles that we are purely mechanistic - simply organic objects that respond to stimuli at a higher level but not a more "profound" one than any other creature, including jellyfish. There is the thought that this precludes free will as every decision we make is simply the decision that we would always have made and that we are more or less set into channels that only diverge inasmuch as external powers make themselves known (random incidents).

R83 There was a recent article in the Guardian that cited a scientific theory that the universe is for all intents and purposes dead. There are indeed the building blocks of life - but they have not necessarily resulted in anything approaching the complexity of life that we observe on earth (in other words, it could "stall" at the microbial level). Earth-like life may have existed in the past, and it may again in the future, but this theory posits that "intelligent" life is so rare as to be, at least potentially, something of a one-off. This would explain why we have never found radio waves, beacons, signals or any other evidence that anything is out there.

R87 Yes I am shit . It comes from my body and hopefully from yours to . Or you’re in big trouble twat . Why are you so treathened by me twat .

r89 I'm linking your guardian article. I think it's less definite than you're making it, although to be fair, the author of the article paints a pretty pessimistic picture. The "study" cited is not really a study. It's a mathematical theory, using "vegas odds" as a means of honing in on the likelihood of life - but, as the article says, we're not really sure how the building blocks of life resulted in intelligent life here. Once the additional studies have been done, on the sort of gases we'd expect to see in life-sustaining environments, we'll be in a better position to evaluate the possibilities.

If he is speaking from the dead then wouldn't that mean there is an afterlife?

R87 this is my opinion on death . I’m sure you have yours . So you have to be a twat to other people who think different .

Theists are abject morons.

You don't belong here. Go somewhere for dumb people...like church. We don't want anything to do with your zombie blood cult.

r87 i don’t need a church or God to be good or to be respectfull of other people . I don’t want to bash or enflict pain on other people .If you need a God to stay good or charitable i’ll pity you . I lived my life in respect for other people and hopefully they respect me too . I mind my own business thank you

[quote]R38 There is a Power that transcends the intellect and the 5 senses. I have found it through prayer and especially meditation - a Power that responds to us and helps us.

Out of nowhere, this made me laugh out loud.

Now I feel bad.

[quote]R50 Don't allow these faith less assailed to dissuade you from what you know to be true. Ignore them!

AND SEND MONEY!

[quote]R68. This video made a ton of sense regarding the existence of God or “the all.”

But THIS explanation makes ever so much more sense:

[R1] science is a brilliant thing but your claim here is not science but scientism and that is basically folly. A foolish overclaim.

I think he knows better now.

R97 yes they can brainwash you and fill their pockets when you’re in a church and believe in Jesus . I was raised as a catholic and my mom was very catholic . My father was an atheïst and probably a commie . My godmother.s husband worked on the docks and when i was at school i went their to eat lunch everyday . The Red Vane was lying there and since I read everything I read in that pamflet too . So I became a socialist and still am till this day . I can’t understand why a grown adult needs religion in these days . Its indeed a device to control people . Opium for the masses indeed .

Materialists are such dogmatic bores. And their attachment to their dogma, coupled with their willingness to attack any views they deem heretical to their materialist faith, is having a chilling effect on the field of quantum physics, where the evidence is increasingly suggesting that consciousness creates matter, rather than the other way around.

[quote] According to Sir James Jeans: “the stream of knowledge is heading towards a non-mechanical reality; the Universe begins to look more like a great thought than like a great machine. Mind no longer appears to be an accidental intruder into the realm of matter... we ought rather hail it as the creator and governor of the realm of matter.” But physicists have not yet followed Galileo’s example, and convinced everyone of the wonders of quantum mechanics. As Sir Arthur Eddington explained: “It is difficult for the matter-of-fact physicist to accept the view that the substratum of everything is of mental character.”

[quote] Physicists shy from the truth because the truth is so alien to everyday physics. A common way to evade the mental Universe is to invoke ‘decoherence’ — the notion that ‘the physical environment’ is sufficient to create reality, independent of the human mind. Yet the idea that any irreversible act of amplification is necessary to collapse the wave function is known to be wrong: in ‘Renninger-type’ experiments, the wave function is collapsed simply by your human mind seeing nothing. The Universe is entirely mental.

[quote] In the tenth century, Ibn al-Haytham initiated the view that light proceeds from a source, enters the eye, and is perceived. This picture is incorrect but is still what most people think occurs, including, unless pressed, most physicists. To come to terms with the Universe, we must abandon such views. The world is quantum mechanical: we must learn to perceive it as such.

[quote] One benefit of switching humanity to a correct perception of the world is the resulting joy of discovering the mental nature of the Universe. We have no idea what this mental nature implies, but — the great thing is — it is true. Beyond the acquisition of this perception, physics can no longer help. You may descend into solipsism, expand to deism, or something else if you can justify it — just don’t ask physics for help.

That's Richard Conn Henry, Professor of Physics and Astronomy at Johns Hopkins. Hardly a peddler of New Age woo. But the fear of being labelled as such by idiot bullies like some in this thread means that many more physicists are afraid to speak about, or even research, the subject of quantum consciousness. Hence, as Henry notes, the field has stalled.

Hear that, self-appointed defenders of science and rationality? Your irrational attachment to materialist dogma is holding science back.

People who say “I prayed/meditated and God gave me the answer” are childish. Just say “I thought about it and came up with the answer/decision after much thought”. That’s what prayer/meditation is.

[R101] That is a strong critique of organised religion but not a strong critique of the idea of God or a divine spirit. Many people are not remotely religious but believe in God or a divine spirit.

Is there still a Steven Hawking?

R11 pick up a science book

R92 No, it means he has published a book posthumously

Look around you. If there IS a good, he's a sociopath, or deeply incompetent, or both.

R109, this argument has always seemed like shit.

The planet is beautiful. It's not Eden - it's not supposed to be, but in real terms it provides for all of our needs.

What human beings have done to it and each other sucks.

Sorry, I don't think that's God's doing.

"There is no God and Mary is His mother."

I believe this is a simulation of some sort. Who created this simulation? Probably a creator of some sort, but not a traditional idea of G-d. I believe it probably is possible to exist in some form after this simulation. I cannot comprehend it all being some sort of fluke or random accident, as it is too highly ordered and unexplainable.

Considering that nearly 99% of all species that have ever lived on Earth have gone extinct, if there is a creator god I assume that he must be a genocidal psychopath, an incompetent fool, or a totally disinterested deity. Whichever answer you choose, it’s clear he wouldn’t be a god worth worshipping.

Reincarnation.

[quote] R77: The universe, outside of the planet Earth, is dead...Or at least the above seems to be growing scientific consensus.

That’s not true at all. The consensus today is that the Universe is full of life. Especially if you pull God out of the equation. If a natural process created life on earth, then given the vastness of the universe and depth of time, the Universe must be swimming in life.

The least complex life will be the most abundant. Maybe there will be a million planets with single cell life only; for every one with multicellular bacteria. And a million of them, for each planet with algae-like life; and a million of them, for every one with complex plant life, etc. There is no knowing what alien life might look like, other than that it will not look much like us. Certainly not humanoid. We might not even recognize it.

The Pope has publically commented that the discover of alien life does not negate the truth of Christ, so even they are hedging.

The history of astronomy, and science in general, might be summarized simply the ongoing discovery that man is not the center of anything, is not unusual or special, and is certainly not unique.

[quote] R89: Earth-like life may have existed in the past, and it may again in the future, but this theory posits that "intelligent" life is so rare as to be, at least potentially, something of a one-off. This would explain why we have never found radio waves, beacons, signals or any other evidence that anything is out there.

I’m sure it’s rare, but common enough for there to be billions of intelligent species out there.

The reason we haven’t found radio signals is this:

We’ve only been looking for, maybe, 50 years. That’s nothing. Many alien societies that have developed radio will also destroy themselves before they have a chance to send out too much.

Radio waves deteriorate over long distances.

The radio spectrum is vast. We only search a narrow range as a best guess as to where we might find signals

I may not get this technology exactly correct, but you’ll get my point - we now often broadcast in broadband. This means that a message is broken into packets. The packets are sent simultaneously, followed by more simultaneous packets. The packets are reassembled at the receiver, then shown to us. The receiver already knows the key as to how to reassemble the packets. A message sent by broadband would be completely unintelligible without the key to explain how to assemble the packets together. And nobody is looking in space for alien broadband.

They are out there. It’s now a respected belief, and their in an astrobiology field that studies what aliens life might be like. What’s requiredfir it to exist, and so forth.

r18 - provide links please

I'm with r95, I don't need fear of some Abrahamic god to be a good person.

I feel sorry for people that need some judgemental angry sky good to keep them in check. That's pathetic and sad. To be honest, I personally believe religious people have low-level cognitive reasoning skills aka the deplorables.

As a scientist, Stephen Hawking knew there has never been any evidence of a God or an afterlife. He was a realist. No realist could ever believe in God or the afterlife.

Einstein said he believed in a God as evidenced in the harmonious laws of the universe, he did not, however, believe in a God that observed and watched over human behavior. Einstein>Hawkins.

Michio Kaku, astrophysicist, says that an afterlife would not violate the physical laws of the universe, not that he claimed there was one.

We simply do not know.

Einstein also read and admired Kant, which Hawking clearly never did.

The word god is real.

So “god” is. Even if just a word. Or a concept.

I don’t understand anti-theists. Why be anti “nothing”...? If god isn’t real then just fucking relax...there’s nothing to fight.

"The Power of Your Subconscious Mind" - Dr Joseph Murphy

He claims that the God source can be found in our own subconscious minds. It's worth a read.

God is mankind creation to explain the meaning of life.

God is Divine Mind.

Man is not the end all & be all. There’s something greater than us...beyond our comprehension.

God, as we're told to know It, is the flawed explanation set forth by mankind

They keep fucking up our laws R122 - enshrined homophobia, restrictions on women - and they fuck up education (science textbooks in Texas and elsewhere), and many other negative effects, so it matters. Nobody's fighting Zoroastrianism - just nutty Abrahamic religions, for the most part, being crammed down everybody's throats.

R127, you’re generalizing. It’s the kind of thing that I imagine you dislike in others.

There are evil people in every organization. It’s people who are the problem, not God.

Oh, and they aren’t “your laws”. They’re everybody’s laws.

That argument doesn't work for the NRA, r128 and it doesn't work for you. You should also learn to read a post properly before trying to correct it.

"Nothing like us ever was."

- Carl Sandburg

The Chri$tian God.

Can we go back to discussing that Stephen Hawkins was annoying as fuck and difficult to look at to say the least. Give me Neil deGrasse any day of the week

Ok, I need a quips for dummies explanation for R130. Is Carl Sandburg an atheist? Does on atheist's comment have to represent all atheists? How can any individual, atheist or not, know for sure that nothing like us ever was? The whole thing is bizarre. And couldn't he just have been using poetic license? like Einstein was basically doing when he spoke of god. He clarified that he did not believe in a "personal god"

R110 do you even listen to yourself?

There is no god. There is no after-life.

Man has always made gods in his own image.

How this is not obvious to some of you, I have no clue.

[quote]There’s something greater than us...beyond our comprehension.

Prove it There's zero evidence for any such thing. ESPECIALLY not something that knows or cares about us.

So, if the universe is truly infinite, which is incomprehensible in size...our minds can’t grasp the vastness...first, how do we know that’s even true? We take the word of science as the truth, but how do we know? Assuming it IS true that the universe is infinite and there are more planets in the universe than grains of sand on earth (incomprehensible), isn’t it extremely narcissistic that intelligent life exists only on Earth-on our universal grain of sand? One of presumably infinite planets just happened to host intelligent life? Isn’t it also extremely narcissistic to presume no other intelligent life because the lack of alien radio waves discovered? Our understanding of physics and technology has led us to use radio wave communication, so we expect that all other intelligent life would understand and/or experience physics and technology in the same way? Who’s to say the laws of physics that we subscribe to are the same across the infinite universe? Who’s to say our understanding of the laws of physics are infallible? Recent research in quantum physics is strongly suggesting the long-held understanding that nothing can exceed the speed of light is erroneous. Silly earthlings.

Which brings me to the concept of God. It’s human nature to try to make meaning of the unknown, the inexplicable, the incomprehensible. The very earliest human societies had a robust mythology for that very purpose. The fact of the matter is we don’t know. I believe we probably don’t have the capacity to comprehend why and how we exist. I believe based on the laws of conservation of energy, something happens to our consciousness when we die-it exists somewhere. Maybe not.

God is Energy.

It can't be created or destroyed, only changed.

Energy into matter; matter into energy.

That is our afterlife. An eternal chain of converting into matter, back to energy, back to matter, forever.

[quote] So, if the universe is truly infinite, which is incomprehensible in size...our minds can’t grasp the vastness...first, how do we know that’s even true? We take the word of science as the truth, but how do we know?

What we know is that our telescopes are getting better, and we will soon be able to see 13.8 billion light years away. That is the age of the universe. It will be impossible to see beyond that point, no matter how strong the telescope, because light from further away than 13.8 billion light years will not have had enough time to get to earth, to be seen.

We don’t know if the universe is infinite or if it is simply very big. There is no evidence that the universe has borders.

I’m up here taking notes and these posts are going in your files nonbelievers. See y’all on your judgement days.

R139 That’s what we’ve been told at least (re the images purportedly from telescopes). We believe those intergalactic images from Hubble are intergalactic images because that’s what we’ve been told, but do we know? Why do we believe what scientists tell us? This is just for the sake of argument.

R118 I feel sorry for people that need some judgemental angry sky good to keep them in check. That's pathetic and sad.

Yes. Normal people are innately compassionate and empathetic. We’re social animals and it’s bred into our DNA that when we look out for others, others look out for us. It’s a tool for survival.

Religion doesn’t instill this in us. If you’re naturally missing these traits, you’re a sociopath!

[quote]R137 So, if the universe is truly infinite, which is incomprehensible in size...our minds can’t grasp the vastness...first, how do we know that’s even true? We take the word of science as the truth, but how do we know?

It’s not so much that one KNOWS, it’s that scientific evidence points toward accepting something as the most likely explanation.

Scientists are the first to acknowledge that theories are expanded all the time, as more information and provable data comes in.

[quote]R138 “God is Energy. It can't be created or destroyed, only changed. Energy into matter; matter into energy. That is our afterlife. An eternal chain of converting into matter, back to energy, back to matter, forever.” —God

That’s the best you could do?

What a letdown.

Man has always created the god or gods needed to lubricate times passage. Knowing one is going to die, disintegrate and blow away is terrifying for many. But, as we have been able to adapt to the major tragedies of life, the death of family members and friends, we will eventually become accepting of our ultimate demise. Men created god/gods and then religions to maintain a position of importance to females. Females figured this out long ago, and kicked back and enjoyed being restricted but cared for by the men they chose to mate. Deep down I doubt there is anyone who really believes in god, but simply refuses to give up the comfort it provides during times of great stress. Denial is one of the defining characteristics of being human. Denial is another form of hope.

One god or many ?

Let's please keep in mind the difference, and it's a huge one, between organized religion and spirituality. I find the former to be repugnant yet believe in a higher power.

I've never understood the thought that, without a belief in god or an afterlife, one would just go around doing whatever he/she wants. I don't believe in a god, but:

1) I have empathy for others, so I don't intentionally harm them.

2) I have a desire to live in as free a manner as possible, so I support a democratic way of life.

3) I have a strong belief in justice and equal rights, so I support those who share my beliefs.

It is baffling to me that someone can claim that they are "better" than me because they believe in a supreme being, when I live my life treating others with respect and obeying the laws of our country because it is what I feel is right and not because I fear the punishment of a higher authority. And as for needing a religion to make "sense" of life, I follow the motto of "The mystery of life isn't a problem to solve, but a reality to experience" (Frank Herbert).

R147, what's the point of believing in a 'higher power'? To shirk responsibility for your own actions? Or because you can't believe you'd behave correctly without the threat of damnation from an invisible father figure? I really don't get it. There's nothing "out there" watching over you. It's such a childish belief. Grow up.

[quote] R145: Man has always created the god or gods

It’s been said that God created man with a desire to seek him out.

[quote] R141: [R139] That’s what we’ve been told at least (re the images purportedly from telescopes). We believe those intergalactic images from Hubble are intergalactic images because that’s what we’ve been told, but do we know? Why do we believe what scientists tell us?

The science of astronomy builds by the scientific method. Experts present theories, weigh evidence, and decide the most likely scenario that matches the facts. Bad theories fall by the side. Careers and prestige go to those whose theories gain the most support. So, I suppose I would say I have faith in the scientific method.

In just the last few decades, it became generally accepted that the moon was created by the collision of another body with the Earth. The collision knocked Earth off its axis; resulted in Earth having a magnetic center and magnetic field about twice what would otherwise be expected; and threw up debris into orbit that coalesced into the moon. It also explains why the moon is composed of lighter, rocky soil, similar to the earth, but with less metal.

I forget what the predominant theory was previously. I recall thinking this new theory was riculous, but it’s what most experts in the field now believe. In just the last few years, they are now hypothesizing that two moons were initially created, which later merged into one. This isn’t anything we’ll ever “know” like we know 1+1=2, but it best fits the facts and explains things better than anything else.

R140 I feel confident that god would be able to spell judgment correctly.

R136, prove the Big Bang happened. Prove humans evolved from animals.

How does one prove what is unknowable?

And if you don’t believe in god, fine. But why fight about it? Why try to persuade others to believe as you do?

R142, I feel sorry for those folks, too. And would happily invite them to my Christian Church. Our pastor is a really cool lesbian. We feed hundreds of people every Saturday.

R144, yes the Truth is a letdown for “red wagon” believers....the kind who throw tantrums when they’re prayers are not fulfilled as desired.

Kind of like the movie the Wizard of Oz...where the wizard informed them that they had everything they needed already within them.

Yes, it’s true. Salvation is an inside job. The outside world cannot provide it.

No God. But, we'll always have Paris. And huge cocks. And Champagne!

I live by the Golden Rule. EVERYBODY should......

[quote]R150 It’s been said that God created man with a desire to seek him out.

Narcissistic traits, much?

[quote]R153 And if you don’t believe in god, fine. But why fight about it? Why try to persuade others to believe as you do?

Do you see atheists and agnostics going door to door with literature? Do you see them preaching on street corners?

The topic usually just comes up when some religious nut is running their mouth, or trying to insert religion into public schools, courts, politics, etc.

Atheists are Super, at the link.

So Stephen Hawking didn’t meet his maker.

The Universe is flat.

Nobody can prove the big bang happened or not... it's a theory constantly being updated to fit and explain our observations.

But we can prove man evolved from other animals. We have the fossils and DNA, we've seen evolution on small scales with our own eyes.

I was just behind a mini van displaying a sticker that said: Protected by Jesus

My first thought was no, you’re protected by airbags.

R163, I think both theories are equally strong. The evidence for the Big Bang is strong, though perhaps inscrutable to the average DataLounger.

My electric scooter has a "Don't Drive Faster Than Your Angels Can Fly" sticker on it. It's funny, I can't drive that thing through Walmart faster than an angel! Of course God is Real, you sillies.

You’re not helping, R166.

Creation or evolution, that’s the question

There's no question, R168. Evolution is the confirmed, factual answer.

I’m not sure it’s a fact, so much as a generally accepted theory.

No, it's a fact. Evolution is a fact. An incontrovertible fact.

It's both evolution and creationism. God created the universe and man has the challenge of figuring it out. and how it was made. Yes, it's all scientifically based. Both view are correct.

That's the ticket, r172. I think that is exactly how it played out.

r7 No it isn't a random accident. There is something but it is only god like in that it creates. The universe and everything in it comes out of consciousness. Consciousness in seeking to know itself creates. It creates all types of things in order to see itself in the creations. The closest think we know of that is most like this creator consciousness is us. Everything in our world is created out of our mind, out of what we imagine. In some ways we look to find ourselves in the things we create. In most things we only manage to sink to perversion and ego gratification. Unlike humans, the creative force of the universe has no ego.

As we move closer and closer to destroying ourselves there is nothing that will intervene on our behalf. If the human being is not intelligent enough to evolve beyond domination, greed, hate, violence, perversion, then we will be destroyed and the experiment of our kind of organism will come to an end and nothing else in the universe will be effected.

Watch your thoughts. Listen to yourself as you go through your day. Who is it that listens? What stories are you making up in your mind about what is happening around you? Are you correct? Are you seeing what you think you see? Or are you making up some story about what is happening, what people are thinking and why they are doing what they are doing, to fit the picture you have of the world? We are creators.

[quote]R172 It's both evolution and creationism. God created the universe and man has the challenge of figuring it out.

But then, where did he go?

It’s sad that if he’s indeed here, we wanted little Cece and Bella Watts to get strangled by their mom (or dad!)

HE....not “we”

We left Him not the other way around r175. We have free will...we can seek to hide from Him.

We can’t really hide from Him though....He’s patiently waiting until, like the Prodigal Son, we change our minds & choose to return Home. And we will not be punished but celebrated.

No, R172, and R173... there is no god, so there was no god to create. Sorry.

BTW, have you heard of "Deism"? Most of our country's Founding Fathers were Deist. Basically they believed what you just said. "Sure, god created everything, but then he left, and we're on our own, and the universe is just playing out by the initial rules he created for it".

Basically, it's not religion at all. It's just handwaving the 'creation' part because we can't ever admit "we don't know", and then leaving the rest to science.

R177, you're delusional and mentally ill.

Stop playing hide and seek with an imaginary magical father figure. Get some therapy or something. And maybe an education.

R177 We left Him not the other way around [R175]. We have free will...we can seek to hide from Him.

Did the murdered toddlers Cece and Bella Watts “hide from Him”?

And you, r179, are bossy, judgmental & rude.

And you’re also lonely & scared.

R181, please stop projecting your own issues onto others.

[quote]R181 And you’re also lonely & scared.

Of what? Your invisible sky fairy?

Yeah, pretty much.

It's lonely and scared people that invented and cling to their invisible sky fairy.

People who don't need such a crutch aren't lonely or scared.

Again, you have it backwards, just like your notion that god created man. Nope. Man has ALWAYS created gods in his own image. It's always fascinating how someone's god always has the same likes and dislikes they do.

Religion is so transparently and obviously false and made up and pure bullshit used by the powerful to control the weak minded that I cannot fathom how it's possible that so few actually see it.

[quote]R185 Man has ALWAYS created gods in his own image. [bold]It's always fascinating how someone's god always has the same likes and dislikes they do.[/bold]

This video describes that mental trick of substitution really well. The believer’s concept of “god” is a mirror of their own perception of themselves.

The problem is, we have a limited idea of how a god might be defined. God could completely be incomprehensible in our current state. Until we actually pass on, anything is up for grabs. Wanna know why? Nobody comes back. Nobody can really make such broad statements and be 100% sure. It would be like talking about what goes on in a country you had never seen or learned about.

If neither can be proven, he’s really just the extreme opposite of the belief spectrum. And don’t play the “science/numbers/physics explains it all away” card. We’re at the tip of the iceberg. I bet there’s knowledge out there that will make the current laughable. History has so far had that pattern. Maybe we’re on a journey of knowledge to find god, whatever he may be.

[quote]R187 until we actually pass on, anything is up for grabs. Wanna know why? Nobody comes back.

FAIL.

YouTube is FULL of testimonials from those who have come back ! ! ! !

R185, you’re super, you really are. Just super.

OK, let’s say Stephen is correct. What is my motivation for “escaping the planet” “resisting AI” , discovering our origins, caring about the next generation? If there’s no afterlife, the goal is to become...immortal? Why are we even so stuck on life? Why does anything matter? I’m not saying the belief in a deity solves this, I’m saying, how does disbelief change anything? Oh, people use religion to create rules/hurt people. Don’t be so naive. I’m sure if everyone became atheist we’d still be just as cruel to each other.

Why do we care about his theories if it will have little impact on our lives? Why do we want to figure everything out? If there’s no magic, why do I give a damn about quantum physics? I’ll never see my loved ones again, so why do I care about particles, origins, space, time, etc?

Think about this.

[quote]R190 Think about this.

I have read your post twice...and conclude you are somewhat addled.

Or, you just don’t express yourself well.

R190, I should resist but I can't. If an atheist believes in science and science found a gene that made someone gay, isn't it more likely that they will be accepting of this person's orientation, rather than following the Bible which actually has the following verse (and people have used this verse to execute gay people):

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)

Don't you see that trying to stop the harm that's being done, EVEN IF some other harm might well happen, is still worth the effort? By your reasoning, why should doctors ever look for a cause of illness, since that person is going to die of something else anyway so why bother?

And by believing in a supernatural being or a hoax or whatever, makes you feel better because "you'll see your loved ones again", then why do you need this harmful religious crap to believe that? Just tell yourself that you're rematerialize in some parallel universe and you have faith that your loved ones will be just as you want them, and you will too, so yippee, no reason to worry about death (and no reason to cherish the time we KNOW we have because you believe you have infinite time with your loved ones - there's a benefit to knowing the truth - that you have this moment, and you're not guaranteed anything else. Nothing focuses the mind and heart so much as something being as precious and rare as that.)

I could go on, but you just choose to delude yourself and you'll make excuses why it's perfectly fine that you're living a deluded life, believing in imaginary things just because someone told you to, or you can think up some benefits you'll supposedly get by believing in a fairy tale. Dream on.

"We need to handle all this information with balance and mutual respect. For that reason, we have removed Evolution and the Clintons from state wide textbooks. Teacher know how to teach those kinds of silly, easy things, if they feel its important. God's Creation is magnificent and vast, so the structured textbook keeps this all fair and square."

It doesn't matter if god is real or not. I spent years being an athiest and thinking if I was inherently a good person, god wasn't necessary.

After my sons grew up without any religion or belief in god, I realized it was a mistake. They are moral ethical people, but they are more individualistic, just different without a spiritual life--and there is nothing I can do now.

I feel the same way about my Chinese sister-in-law. They are missing a large part of themselves.

Opiates for the masses? Yep, probably. Some good points? Yes, probably.

One of my sons hates the church because he is also gay and thinks I'm a hypocrite. You know what, he won't get off his ass and vote.

If believing in god is indulgent nonsense, oh well.

There is a big difference between believing on god and making the bible literal and acting on it's words. Of course bible thumpers are insane. That's not a majority of people.

Let's please stop assuming that people who believe in God are also people who support religion. Two very different camps. What is more loving than God? What is more evil than the Catholic Church?

[quote]R196 What is more loving than God?

Someone who actually calls from time to time? Or takes the time to drop by, even once?

R197 I did

The video at R188 demonstrates the deep contrast between what is written in ALL religious texts regarding all Omnipotent based religions, and the general feel of the vast majority of these near-death experiences: Religious texts are damning, judgmental, and conditional whereas the guy in the video says that God expressed "UNCONDITIONAL LOVE" when he received the hug. This is the most common theme shared by virtually all who experience this phenomenon. They all express the feeling of unconditional love. So too do they all express a subsequent fearlessness of dying in the future. Yet, none of them ever seem to address the contradiction their experience evokes regarding what is written against what they've experienced. The Christian bible is presented as THE word of God, yet any reverend Pastor worth his salt will freely admit that it is the INSPIRED word of God, meaning that men wrote it. Mankind is naturally corrupted in that he always seeks to arrange life around him to his own individual, self-serving agenda. Likewise, he becomes a hypocrite in some way the very moment he opens his mouth to speak against another. Again, leveraging the experiences of near-death people against what is written by MAN can be seen as corrupt and hypocritical. It's not God we should be calling into question. It is ourselves. God has not created the confusion. We have created it. I think that the acceptance of organized religion should be attributed as an INTRODUCTION to God/Jesus/Spirituality, etc. It's only a first step. Jesus tells us that "the Kingdom is within" - this implies strongly that we are to journey inside our own selves to find "God." This is what I have done.

R197, is that why you hate god...because he doesn’t call or visit you?

Ok.

I might faint if I get a visit.

Anti-theists have an immature concept of god. They project their immaturity onto others...they are thumb-suckers. Wounded by their own immaturity yet blaming others for it.

I’ve had the misfortune of seeing a few people die...from cancer, old age, & AIDS.

The anti-theists, like most people, will see the world differently when they know their actually, truly dying. It’s not an intellectual thing. It’s an experience.

Just remember the Prodigal Son...you are always welcome Home.

*they’re

I think that people who need a sky fairy to act decent are probably born sociopaths. I’m not religious, never have been, and even as a kid thought religion didn’t make sense but I always had an innate sense of decency plus my parents, also non-religious, taught me to treat others with decency and respect. People who think they need a god and religion to keep them from rape, murder, stealing, or other criminal acts or “immoral” acts are probably born defective. Even primitive man had some code of ethics to live with each other.

R202 Let's apply a little scientific method to your theory that anti-theists are immature. The first group of countries are the most "anti-theist" and the second are the most "theist." Which ones do you think have the most mature, least thumb-sucking people - in which group of countries would you feel most happy, do you reckon? Maybe you've run into the terms data or logic or facts? But then again, maybe not... Anyway, here's Exhibit 1 on how religiosity is helpful to groups of people. Oh, and Trump's most reliable voters are evangelicals, at about 81% supporting him. (Exhibit 2 on which group are more "mature" and thoughtful?)

Most secular, least “anti-theist” countries:

Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Japan, UK, France, Australia, Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland, Canada

Least secular, most “theist” countries:

Bangladesh, Ethiopia, Somalia, Afghanistan, Nigeria, Philippines, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Iran, India

* I should have said "Most secular, most "anti-theist" countries --- your terminology tripped me up a bit.

204 thinks believers are sociopaths. Immature. Troll.

205, “anti-theists” =/= secular.

I lived in DK. They might be agnostic, but they really aren’t “anti” anything. More live & let live. They would never, as a people, tell believers that god is a sky fairy.

Anti-theists are haters. Agnostics are not. Atheists not necessarily.

Oh and here are the most religious states(% who are highly religious): 1. Alabamat77% 1. Mississippit77% 3. Tennesseet73% 4. Louisianat71% 5. Arkansast70% 5. South Carolinat70% 7. West Virginiat69% 8. Georgiat66% 8. Oklahomat66% 10. North Carolinat65% 11. Texast64% 11. Utaht64% 13. Kentuckyt63%

Least religious: 39. Oregont48% 41. Coloradot47% 41. Hawaiit47% 43. New Yorkt46% 44. Alaskat45% 44. Washingtont45% 44. Wisconsint45% 47. Connecticutt43% 48. Mainet34% 48. Vermontt34% 50. Massachusettst33% 50. New Hampshire

Care to guess which states have better educated people, with better health outcomes, lower divorce rates, lower teen pregnancy, just better quality of life in general? You don't even need to look that up, do you?

God will make you rich. Just ask Joel Osteen or David Miscavige.

You know what's cool about life? That we all get to choose what belief system we adhere to. I don't know what I don't know so I am always open to differing viewpoints on the origin of life, intelligent design and finding any "meaning" to all of this life experience. Am I a part of a hologram? Maybe. Is this all a "dream?" (A Course in Miracles) Maybe. I do NOT believe that "Jesus Christ is a personal savior who died for my sins" and that there is a heaven and hell. Organized religion is far too simplistic, full of gods and monsters and fear and guilt. It is the "opiate of the masses." In other words, smart people who QUESTION everything would not land on the roulette wheel with such an elementary, childish, small-minded explanation for "reality." Again, just my opinion. For example, I cannot find a single Christian who can answer for me what happened to all the people who were born before Jesus Christ. Did they all go to heaven or hell? What about people who never learn about Christianity? Cave dwellers who never heard of Christ or "god?" Did THEY all go to hell? It's all a bunch of silly, contrary, arbitrary man-made nonsense to me.

Now you're moving the goal posts R208. Religion is harmful - they're still throwing gay men off of cliffs - and you say, "ah, live and let live". Yeah right.

R212, there are no goal posts. That’s angry white man speak. Are you impotent?

I remember Christopher Hitchens used to joke that the best evidence that Christians had no sense of irony was their insistence that, “Of course we have free will; the boss says so.”

[quote]204 thinks believers are sociopaths. Immature. Troll.

I think the immature troll is the one who doesn’t know how to properly reply on DL and has knee jerk reactions to anyone who doesn’t believe as he does. Obviously insecure in his own beliefs if he has to lash out at non-believers.

Did you stumble into DL by googling?

You love to stoop to ad hominem don't you - thumb-suckers, impotent, angry white man. And you consider that "mature" as opposed to your invented term "anti-theist" which has almost nothing to do with "atheist" as you pointed out. If you can't debate a point without stooping to insults, you're the one with the maturity problem.

Well I’m only human r216. And I am a DLr.

So you ARE impotent. 😂

I believe that’s DL’er. Emojis give away your immaturity too.

Beliefs are real to the believer, r218.

You like to fight, I get it. You need the attention.

I don’t expect you to see my POV. Anti-theists are closed-minded & invested in conflict. I guess it makes them feel alive...or distracts them from their suffering.

Attack me personally all you wish. I stand by my assertion that anti-theists behold an immature concept of god. Don’t like my opinion? So fucking what.

Now...make use of those knives you’ve been sharpening. But know that you cannot hurt me. Only yourself.

Argumentative and hostile religious nuts on ignore. Now, can we get back to a civilized discussion devoid of emojis and childish, anti-scientific beliefs?

I find the theory of a simulation to be very interesting. Perhaps the Matrix was based on reality? I’m not convinced but it’s fun to speculate. I don’t pretend to really understand quantum physics either.

We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes.

Incontrovertible logic worthy of Spock R222.

Of course there isn’t a god. Never has been and never will be.

Life is a series of in the moment biological victories. Constantly changing and evolving. Soon to be replaced with other biological victories until this planet dies.

Man invented religion to control and enforce. Western countries are now too well educated to believe the Served up Horseshit.

But man is only on this planet for a brief moment and will become extinct at some point and be replaced with the next dominant being. Until the sun burns out. .

i must add - I don’t believe in god and there is insurmountable evidence to show that all religions are responsible for untold evil and despicable acts. Even in this modern age.

But I’m not an atheist. I care so little about other people’s religion that I have no title and no interest in confirming to your religious bullshit framework. That’s your word - not mine. I just blank anyone religious. No respect for them at all. Dullards.

I am more interested in the origin of the universe and the notion of intelligent design than any "Christian god." Who is created by humans in HUMANS' image. To help with fear of death.

Get rid of one god and I'll be damned if some guy doesn't invent another. It's too much power and tax-free money to pass up.

R225, welcome to apathetic agnosticism. “I don’t know, you don’t know and who cares?”

Honestly, god or no god, my life isn’t going to change. I’m a decent human being and don’t worry about it.

Jesus and the New Testament - that's the ticket! Know the difference between the sin which makes us human vs the sin which renders us beastly. Jesus was the coolest. He's the one who would be castigating Evangelicals for their mistreatment of you. My take on the story of Jesus and the prostitute who was about to be stoned to death: He tells the angry and HYPOCRITICAL mob "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." They all dropped their rocks on the ground. Jesus shut 'em down. Then He tells the woman to "sin no more." But I think it went like so: "These people are a bunch of blood-thirsty hypocrites, and I probably won't be around to save your ass the next time, so don't do that shit anymore. Sin no more." He understood our faults and weaknesses on condition of our being human and not divine. "The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak." We are not granted permission to "sin" to our hearts desire, rather there is understanding of our incapability of leading perfectly chaste lives. We humans are extraordinarily complex beings full of drives and motivations we aren't even aware of. When you acknowledge, love, and respect God then you realize that absolutely everything seen and unseen is a part of God, so then you have appreciation for it all. Wondrous miracles are all around us every day of our lives, but they are taken for granted. Forget about all the scientific explanation for just a minute to understand the miracles. Water falling from the sky is a miracle. Placing a tiny seed into the earth at your feet to watch it germinate, producing food for sustenance is a miracle. Wind - this unseen force which can cool you down, can be utilized as an energy source, yet can also destroy. Wind is a miracle. The sun and it's light/heat is a miracle. As I said, they're all around us all the days of our lives if we care to humble ourselves to the degree that we can respect them as being such.

With all that said, I am not going to watch some internet porn while I rub one out simply because I am human with a working brain and sexual organ. It's what we do. And I don't feel the least bit shameful for it. Have a nice day!

I’m not agnostic R228.

I clearly stated that I don’t believe in a god.

My label is “I literally don’t care about religious bullshit”.

****I am NOW going to watch.....*****

R230 okay so just apathetic. I understand.

No one cares R229.

^No, no. SOMEONE will care, I'm certain. Have a good one!

No, dear, really no one will care. That’s why I’m an apathetic agnostic.

Yes 100% R232. Completely apathetic. Not interested in any way, shape or form.

Unlesss they attempt to enforce their beliefs or attempt to restrict or encroach on the lives of others in the name of their religion. Then I do care.

I have no idea if there is a God or not, but one thing I do know is that there is no God created religion on Earth. All religions are clearly man made.

I actually had one Christian tell me that if he is correct about Jesus and religion he will be saved, and if he is wrong he is no worse off than me, but if I am wrong I will go to hell. I asked him if realizes that an all knowing God knows he isn't really a believer just a guy playing the odds?

I think most Christians actually are just playing the odds, otherwise they wouldn't be such horrible horrible people.

R236 I’ve had all of them use this logic. They are hedging their bets. They are simply frightened.

R225, all human beings are worthy of respect.

At least that’s what the Unitarians taught me as a child.

There’s no point in living if there were no God.

[quote]We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes.

[quote]— Gene Roddenberry

That’s a true statement, & not at all at odds with believing in a Higher Power.

Humans require “story logic” to put into narrative that we cannot articulate. From cave art to mythology to comics to movies. It’s how humanity communicates.

We must question the story we created of a God who created sinners for Him to punish. It’s wrong. It’s distorted. It’s a story made-up by people who believe they are sinners.

“Sin” is an archery term for “missing the mark.” To sin is simply to missed the mark. An error can be fixed. Try again & maybe you’ll hit the mark. Where you made a mistake before, you will get correct the next time.

Most spirituality centers around “forgiveness.” We must forgive our mistakes...& the mistakes of others.

Forgiveness cancels out the need for punishment.

Note that I’m talking about spiritual practice. If someone commits a bona fide crime against you, then by all means notify the law & pursue justice. But you can still forgive that person for having made the mistake which lead them to commit a crime.

We fight too much. We think that attacking another will save us. It won’t. Attacking another hurts us. If you like pain, then troll all you want. If you don’t like pain, then stop contributing harm to humanity.

Says you. Gene Roddenberry was a humanist.

Ah, but "hedging their bets" strongly suggests a desire to save one's on skin.....er, soul, which is a good reason to believe I suppose. However, the greater reason to believe involves the selfLESS aspect in that you are doing your part to promote a kinder, more caring, LOVING approach to life. You believe for the benefit of pleasing God through that belief. It's kind of like becoming a major talent in some area of entertainment. You're passionate about your artistic capabilities and endeavors - you don't worry about the money because you know that will come as a matter of course. You don't worry about the state of your soul because you are already faithful - you know it's already taken care of.

[quote]I actually had one Christian tell me that if he is correct about Jesus and religion he will be saved, and if he is wrong he is no worse off than me, but if I am wrong I will go to hell.

That's a form of Pascal's Wager, which is logically flawed.

[quote]Denis Diderot, a contemporary of Voltaire, concisely expressed this opinion when asked about the Wager, saying "an Imam could reason the same way". J. L. Mackie notes that "the church within which alone salvation is to be found is not necessarily the Church of Rome, but perhaps that of the Anabaptists or members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or the Muslim Sunnis or the worshipers of Kali or of Odin."

[quote]R196 What is more loving than God?

[quote]R198 Someone who actually calls from time to time? Or takes the time to drop by, even once

[quote]r198 I did - - Jesus

If you were ever an actual person on Earth (and there’s no evidence you were ), you were only off by 2,000+ years...unless we met in another life and you erased it from my memory.

Your career choices are questionable....

[quote] R147: Let's please keep in mind the difference, and it's a huge one, between organized religion and spirituality. I find the former to be repugnant yet believe in a higher power.

Yes, and there is a huge difference between Christianity and other religions. And a huge difference between Catholicism and other Christian religions. And a huge difference between individual Catholics.

The generalization in this this thread, demonizing Christian believers, is the kind of thing that those same people, the generalizers, seem to object so much to. How about we all take the stick out of our own eye before blaming others?

Matthew 7:5

You guys are missing the motives behind Stephen. They emphasize a struggle to overcome the birth and death process. He tells us there is no god to encourage us to develop technology/knowledge to eventually defy the current biological laws and escape the earth. Otherwise we will supposedly be doomed to oblivion. But to me it may have the opposite effect. I think people will view there time here on earth as more precious and become more eager to waste it on themselves rather than for the progress of man. Are we that generous?Will only a select few attain the freedom from death and rule over us like he predicts? And if we are unable to overcome death will we care any longer for promoting the future generations if there is no afterlife or way to see each other again? Will we really be that invested in exploring space for another generation? Or maybe we are already doing this?

last time I checked, Stephen didn’t send any telegrams from the other side. So why does this man have any more influence than the people who say there IS God? They’re both possible, correct? Where is the proof showing otherwise for EITHER? This is why they call it a faith.

There is NO GOD, period. Scientifically Prove It.

R248, no I have faith that the sun will set tonight and rise tomorrow. But my faith in this is based fact. It’s a story that can be reproduced and tested.

^Then you don't have faith in that scenario.

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" Hebrews 11: 1. Faith is the connecting power into the spiritual realm, which links us with God and makes Him become a tangible reality to the sense perceptions of a person. Faith is the basic ingredient to begin a relationship with God.

^ Examples of faith in a Sentence Noun Faith without doubt leads to moral arrogance, the eternal pratfall of the religiously convinced. — Joe Klein, Time, 17 May 2004

Jesus was and is a friend to sinners. He broke bread with hookers/adulterers, thieves, tax collectors, and all others - even those who persecuted Him. Hey Jesus, did You know that You are morally arrogant because of Your faith in the One, True, Living God?

Again, with SOME that may be the case, but not all

Faith and religion comprise a massive for-profit industry. Everybody and his brothers and sisters here in the US claim to be some kind of assistant pastor. Think about how the unemployment rate would jump without this legal form of con artistry. I keep waiting to see this "stuff" sitting bottled on the supermarket shelves. Religious hot air surely has a different specific gravity from plain hot air. What other industry takes customer's money with the customer expecting nothing in return?

I agree with you wholeheartedly, R254. I don't attend church. Church can be held anywhere from a public park to one another's homes. I am a Christian - a true believer, but I'm still considered a heathen because I don't believe in the practices of the modern era church. They are a great deal more concerned with your bank account than they are your soul.

But as to Stephen again, what proof has he offered us?

One story I think is cool is that, when St Peter was imprisoned in Rome, he converted two of his Roman guards.

Allahu Akbar

There is no God but God.

[quote]R257 One story I think is cool is that, when St Peter was imprisoned in Rome, he converted two of his Roman guards.

Whore.

God in three persons R259 (because in numerology, widely followed in those days, two was a naughty number, one and three were like perfect numbers - odd numbers, of course, are male, and even numbers are female...) Well, anyway, the tripartite God, Father, Son, Holy Ghost, but each one God? So I guess we're actually not monotheists - well, the Jews and Muslims can claim it, but not the Christians. Technically we're polytheists, no?

I don't know why I used the royal "we" when I said we weren't monotheists - I'm an atheist! But brought up by someone who claimed to be Christian, so, well, I guess it just gets in the culture, deeper than I thought.

R261, pictures a basketball at your feet, or 5 ft. It’s a sphere, right? Three dimensions.

Then at a distance of 50 ft. or so. It appears to be a disk, right? Two dimensions.

Then at a distance of 500 ft. or so. It appears to be a dot, right? One dimension.

That’s how I think of the Trinity. One God, three perspectives.

So Jesus was talking to himself on the cross when he said, "Why have you forsaken me?" He forsook himself?

Sorry - I think that should have been, "Why have You forsaken Me?"

And is it only Jews who are supposed to write it G-d? But that's not even in Hebrew, and can Muslims write Allah at all?

I'm so confused. Too many G-dforsaken rules.

R264, Jesus was quoting Psalm 22.

I thought Jesus on the cross said "Peter, I can see your house from here."

No, Jesus said "I can see Peter in Russia from here.

Science can't prove there is no God. It doesn't make any sense that the world we live in is an accident or a long series of random events.

There have been attempts over the years to prove evolution without a supreme being and all have failed.

One group tried to calculate the probability of evolution happening. They used a very high powered computer, but eventually the probability ended up ZERO. The computer under-flowed (i.e. ended up zero)and couldn't continue.

Another group used the best taxonomic data as to what family evolved into the next family. Evolution is based on genetic mistakes that occur at conception. They used a computer to simulate this and in every case the jump between the species ended up in something that could not sustain life. In other words, you can;t get there from here.

Evolution with out a supreme being is based on conjecture. It is a belief system.

Religion can't prove there is a God, but doesn't try. The Bible is the source. The existence of God is a belief. I believe there is a God and I believe in the Christian God.

[quote] I believe in the Christian God.

Why that particular one, R269?

My G-d's name is Hermione Cooper. She's totally unconcerned about the world population at large and sleeps more than she looks over her flock of devoted human dumb dumbs. She's a pretty forgiving G-d, and as long as her potty box is kept clean and her 3 meals a day are genuinely to her liking, she permits the world to stay on its current tack. She loves adoration but prefers not to be touched unless she signals it's OK; even then she's not crazy about body contact. She is a true diety in that she is truly irresistible. To be in her presence is to feel complete.

[quote]There have been attempts over the years to prove evolution without a supreme being and all have failed

Not true.

I know trying to use logic on the church crowd probably is fruitless but I’ll try. So Jesus told his friends to go out and spread his word among his flock. So they set up what ended up being the Catholic Church. Then over 1,000 years go by with the Catholics rolling right along. Then someone decides he wants to marry a woman and starts acting like a dick and decides he’s got a better idea. Then someone else thinks he read a cool passage in the Bible and thinks he’s can do better. Eventually a science fiction writer thinks he’s got a better, more exciting story so he gets followers. We end up with a couple thousand versions of what was started by a person they think has all their answers. How can you try to look down on us rational thinkers as better than us? Are you sure you picked the right Christian flavor of the month?

There are something like 30,000 gods in active worship around the globe right now.

And you think your god is the right one, and everyone else is wrong.

How about this: You're all wrong, and there is no god.

That's actually the MOST likely scenario.

I have been a God in training for a couple of years. I must say I find it impossible to love all of you, and I have quit trying. Humans are too underdeveloped to survive Godfree as every time something can be understood, humans use "only God knows" so I know I must continue my training to help humans evolve to care for themselves. Here at Diety University, most under-grads have dropped out of God Training & Administration major and chosen less bewildering majors. Personally, I got caught up in being able to clap my hands and have lightning shoot out my ass. It makes me feel like a real God especially at our toga parties. When I graduate I will take the name God Dan, in hopes to cut down on swear words that are insulting to me. I think mankind will better relate to a youthful deity named Dan than all those fancier names of my Jewish, Iranian, Indian and countless predecessors.

R275, have you and your classmates gone on a field trip to the Holy Land Experience?

No, r276 but we take a course in making all the land holy in hopes of making war impossible.

Julia Sweeney’s show LETTING GO OF GOD is really good. It’s very funny and insightful.

It’s about her growing up Catholic, realizing the Bible and it’s teachings are weird, and her years of trying out other religions and concepts (“nature”) as higher powers, finally coming to the conclusion that....

[R274] There are something like 30,000 gods in active worship around the globe right now.

And I thought the talent pool in the NFL was watered down!

[quote]Why that particular one, [R269]?

Well, he’s the most well known and he’s the God of the culture I grew up in. So it makes sense that’s the one that’s real. Plus, there are a lot of churches. Why would people invest all that time and money building them if God wasn’t real? And before you go there, yes, I know they build mosques and temples in other countries, but those people aren’t building churches, which are Houses of God. They are just buildings for false gods like backwards people build. I’m from the South, where we don’t put up with nonsense like false gods. We worship the God of America.

Nature isn't a false God.

It provides everything we need to survive, and yet cultures who worshipped Nature have been destroyed by Christians.

There’s no god in Buddhism

[quote]R281 Nature isn't a false God.

It’s not a “loving” god, either.

It is cruel and ruthless, and cares nothing about us, individually.

You got to be cruel to be kind.

Why should Nature care about you, individually?

Do you need a morning wake call of nature sent bluebirds flying around your head?

Nature provides you with everything you need to survive, individually.

If you don't like hurricanes and sink holes and all those other cruel, ruthless acts, take that up with organized religion God whose worshippers' raping of the world is causing all of these manmade catastrophes.

[quote]R285 Nature provides you with everything you need to survive, individually.

Like disease.

Diseases, courtesy of the devil

[R52] You've come closest to answering the eternal question than anyone else in this thread.

I do not believe what I was taught: God sitting on a cloud making his naughty/nice list and hurtling the sinners down to meet Lucifer. That is a simplistic fairy tale created to pacify and control mankind. But I do believe we continue on in some incarnation. Be it light, energy...who knows?

"We" don't continue. There is nothing that you could identify as "you" -- your conscious awareness -- that continues past death. There is no continuity. It's a meaningless thing to claim.

As an agnostic, I don’t claim to BELIEVE in a creator etc., but I don’t rule out the possibility there IS one, either. It’s all unknowable.

It seems foolish to put faith in a scenario that just doesn’t make much logical sense, on the surface of it all, and so I don’t...but who knows? Maybe there is a magical Sky Daddy out there spying on us.

He sounds like an asshole, but He wouldn’t be the first.

The belief in god brings comfort to many. That’s all that matters.

R291, the belief in god brings disaster and pain and agony to many more, R291. That matters more.

Men never do evil quite so gleefully as when they do it with the justification of 'god' on their side.

Something of our essence continues after death, but not consciousness. The earth and everything on it are formed from stardust that collected in one spot 4.5 billion years ago. Conservation of mass tells us that our component parts survive us and become something else (worm food), or gases and ash if we are cremated. People do live on in the memories of the people that knew them and loved them, and, if they were strong personalities, they might have even changed the essences of the people around them - since, on one level, we are merely vibrations of atoms in space, it makes sense that our daily interactions "disturb" the vibrations of people around us.

PS r269 Links to all this great research you claim has been done on evolution and creation, or we will presume you made it up in your head or it's on some fundamentalist religious site that you frequent.

After we’re gone, our DL posts shall endure.

That is our true legacy, and immortality.

How can anyone live a fulfilling life if they are worried about what will happen after death? It's so contradictory and illogical. I know it's a selling point for religion but, anyone can make up anything they wish about what one experience in their coffin days. Doing what right and enjoying the company of others is a full-time activity for any sensible person.

It's been scientifically proven that there are multiple dimensions going on at the same time. It's called "String Theory." I saw it on PBS.

When we die, our life-force, or spirit, enters into another one of these dimensions. When psychics are communicating with departed individuals, they are communicating with the other dimension.

String Theory is far from "proven", R296. In fact, there are zero experiments that prove any of it.

You're proof that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Sorry, but you're completely, laughably wrong.

Oh, and there's no such thing as psychics. Read up on "Cold reading" and get a fucking clue. You're a gullible rube being conned.

I do think his mind was overrated, just like "God"

I really wish this thread would stop bumping to the top, again. If you don't believe, that's fine. I'll respect your beliefs and feelings, and never try to argue with them. I honestly think atheists are discriminated against, rather harshly, in American public life (I can't speak for elsewhere). In the meantime, though, I do have religious feelings, which I very rarely share, and never attempt to impose on any other person. You don't need to keep telling me how idiotic or antiquated I am: I've already heard all the criticism. Whatever you believe (or don't believe), it's your personal belief: you can't prove a negative, after all. I don't understand the incredible dedication to 'proving a point', that can't be proven. It's tiresome.

Christianity And Islam are the devils. Islam by far is the most evil religion in the world.

R299 Why does it bother you so much that a thread exist because you don't like the subject? There's a "block" button for the thread and then you won't have to see it in your timeline because you find it "tiresome" (but not so much that you can use your finger to click on a block button I guess - is that too tiring?)

Isn't that more sensible than to try to police the board so that threads you don't like don't exist and other people, who might like them, don't have a chance to see and participate in them (even when you have the ability to block them, so that you don't even see them anymore?)

You can't prove a negative - and neither can you can't prove God or "religious feelings" have any basis. So what's up with that comment? Many religious people reject gay rights, climate change, abortion rights, even the right to birth control, on the basis on unproven claims, but you don't think anyone has the right to question these claims that affect their lives in a very real, negative way, and even threaten the continued existence of our planet?

You think we should just shut up about it because we can't "prove" these ludicrous superstitious claims to be false? Just let people suffer needlessly because you, personally, are one of the ones who don't attempt to impose these beliefs on anybody? You don't have to - the law and the many "believers" are doing it for you.

My new religion is based on people sending me money which I, in turn, yell out of my window, "Good God Save His Ass." The more money one sends, the more of my time is yelling at the Lord on your behalf. By the way, I do interject the payor's name when I do my hereafter hollering. I believe those willing to part with their hard earned mullah deserve to be served first with the most. Fortunately, I live in my 22 room mansion here in the desert so no one complains about my noisy services. All contribution of over10k gets an extra hoot for free. My ministerial school is training a few good men to help me keep up with my religious commitments. Once these young sweeties are ordained, I plan to devote the rest of my life proselytizing all the heathens in those sin resorts in the Caribbean and various sin-skin islands in the South Pacific. I feel the idle rich deserved to be saved as much as the 95%ers

I don’t believe in God yet I am afraid of Him. My immaturity means I can’t have an understanding of our cosmic overseer and the spirit realm beyond the material earth. I’m not deep and feeling enough to have the enlightenment that so many here have shared. It saddens me, but I still won’t believe.

Hawking said: “I think the belief in God is wishful thinking.”

Not: “The belief in God is wishful thinking & here’s proof.”

Hawking had faith that God does not exist. Not proof.

And has already been pointed out, there is such a thing as god. It’s a word. It’s spelled g o d. So god is. Even if you don’t believe that there is anything in the world smarter than man...nothing supreme to us mortals who die alone, afraid & in pain. The word god exists.

R303, you don’t have to believe. You don’t have to do anything...except relinquish fear.

Have you ever meditated? You don’t have to light a candle or chant ohhhm or sit cross legged on a pillow. Just stop thinking.

Try it. Right now. For a few seconds...and then a few minutes. Do you feel different?

That’s the key. Welcome to your journey to enlightenment. It is 100% unique to you. Enjoy it & good luck.

I don't get the argument that since there's the word God, that God exists. There's a word Zeus, a word Shiva, the words Ahura Mazda and the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Oh and Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. Perfectly fine words.

So those things exist too?

Santa Claus exists and as my all-knowing blondness has explained before, R306, he is also white.

One of the early posters stated man would attain eternal life of earth or thereabouts. I believe mankind will go extinct if we even begin to get close the possibility of very long lives.

What if we “activate” a higher power merely by thinking of it?

R308, I agree that man is not “the end all & the be all.” But people have been predicting doomsday since forever now & mankind has continued despite all our wars, weapons & diseases. Even if the population is reduced dramatically.

Yes, it does feel dystopian under Trump. We may suffer greatly, & it may take years, but we will get through this.

[quote]R305 you don’t have to believe. You don’t have to do anything...except relinquish fear.

This is when Satan enters your body.

r305 self-trepaned.

I realized there was no God on 11/08/2016 when Trump was elected president.

Thousands of people dying painful deaths in multiple recent and ongoing wars didn't do it for you, R312?

[quote] What if God is the universal force that animates all life, similar to Star Wars' the Force?

R22 might be right. "God" doesn't have to be the "Creator of all existence" - it might be something (e.g. a "force") that exists parallel to us and affects life, one way or another.

We only relatively recently discover electro-magnetic force waves (which the human eye cannot even see). There might be other natural "forces" out there that co-exist with us.

These "forces" might be symbiotic - i.e. smthg that benefits our existence and our well-being (God-like). Or they might sometimes affect us detrimentally (Devil-like). E.g. people report that exposure to increased electromagnetic radiation can lead to feeling unwell. The question is whether any such "forces" could be sentient or just naturally occurring non-sentient phenomena that affect us.

As for the Afterlife, under the general rule of physics energy doesn't just disappear - energy is converted into other forms of energy. E.g. chemical energy converts to thermal energy, etc. So it is theoretically possible that energy within the brain can convert into something else after the body malfunctions and dies. However, our 'sentience' (i.e. as a self-aware living being with a unique 'emotional identity' based on our brain function) is probably completely lost in that process - our energy just converts into a completely different form of energy.

Thank god for atheism.

[quote] I believe mankind will go extinct if we even begin to get close the possibility of very long lives.

Of course. If humans keep on breeding and don't die - there will be too many people on the planet. There's only so many parasitic life organisms that an ecosystem can support. We will eventually reach a point of unsustainability. If the average human life time span increases to e.g. 150 years - that will just make things worse, environmentally.

I'm pretty sure we're at or past the point of unsustainability.