Is Carol the Best LGBT Movie Ever?

It’s one of the best, but maybe not the best. I think Rocky Horror Picture Show tops it. Carol is easily one of the best acted LGBTQ films ever.

No. It's not even Todd Haynes' best LGBT movie.

Definitely

No, OP, you're thinking of Multiple Maniacs.

Frankly anything Cate Blanchett stars in is almost always worth the watch. She even delivers in the new Jack Black film, The House with a Clock in Its Walls.

She doesn't get much love on here but she is one of my favorite actresses.

It's not an "LGBTQ movie", it's a lesbian/gay movie.

This movie sucked ass

Aren’t all Haynes’s movies LGBTQ?

I thought it was not even remotely believable. So, no.

No.

She was really good as the naive Sheba in Notes on a Scandel. That movie was so tough to watch.

I'm so bored!

R6, same thing. Stop trying to divide our community.

I find Rooney Mara to be blah in everything I've seen her in, and that includes Carol. For that reason, it was hard for me to believe that Carol would lose her head over someone so minor and unremarkable.

CMBYN was a lot more believable in that regard.

Todd Haynes is a shitty director and CAROL is a shitty film. Not one frame of the goddamned thing looked like it was shot in or around New York City. Cincinnati will not do.

It’s definitely one of the best, up there with Maurice, Brokeback Mountain, Moonlight, and Call Me By Your Name.

Anything with Blandy McBlandster Rooney Mara can't be called the best of anything. It was a decent movie that could have been a great movie with a different actress in Mara's role.

R16 Sunday Bloody Sunday is another good one, an early one.

No, it is fake vomit

I recall reading OTT comments of adoration by lesbians when it was first released. I remember thinking, ladies give it a year and then revisit this film when the newness has worn off and view it again. Nothing really happens in this film.

Another lesbian film I just watched on Amazon Prime is Disobedience. Nothing really happens in that film either. You have three talented actresses (and Mara lol) giving their all and two directors who can't pace a scene or edit to save their fucking lives.

R20 Try Butterfly Kiss, non vanilla lesbians

R21, I watched that film years ago and as I recall Amanda Plummer kind of grossed me out. It's not the characters, per se, in Carol and Disobedience it's more to do with the directors' vision and their inability to properly edit scenes.

I suppose what the director of Disobedience percieves as artsy or moody I view as another wasteful scene of a character walking down a hall or walking to the train or walking to a house or walking to a friend's house or walking to temple. Then we have more wasteful, go-nowhere scenes with lone characters in cabs and at airports. Is this a lesbian love story or a film about the art of walking? He should have called it Planes, Trains, and Automobiles.

I thought it was awful, and I was very disappointed.

My favorite gay movie is and continues to be Torch Song Trilogy. I could watch that over and over.

There are two lesbian movies that I like a lot: High Art (which, IMHO as a former heroin addict -- clean 36 years! -- does the best job of depicting heroin use in any movie I have ever seen) with Ally Sheedy, and Concussion with Robin Weigert and Maggie Siff. Hot sex scenes! I'm sure that it helps that Robin Weigert is a lesbian IRL.

R23 Loved High Art, good film

why are there much more gay films than lesbian films? strange...

"Stop trying to divide our community."

You're the one trying to divide our community

Stop trying to divide our community, asshole

What community? Let's be honest.

this is MY community

I'm going to check out One Million Happy Nows on Amazon Prime with Crystal Chappell and Jessica Leccia of Guiding Light fame. It sounds depressing but it's getting good reviews.

Congrats, R23! Isn't Radha Mitchell (High Art) also a lesbian?

The 30 minutes I suffered through felt 9 hours long so I'd say no no no.

Also, Rooney Football von Nepotist has the sex appeal of a windshield wiper.

LOL r29, and ew.

Carol WAS my personal best, yes.

It’s certainly one of the bests but not the best of the bests. Brokeback Mountain is.

Hardly.

R34 Bareback Mountain is about straight men fucking other men, nothing gay about it

I am proud to have worked on this film.

You're tiresome, r36.

R37, the film was visually sumptuous and the colors and wardrobe were stunning. I just take issue with Todd's choice of style over substance when he could have given the audience both. Were you the one quoted in articles discussing Carol's fur? How you had to keep sewing it back together because it was old and fragile and much more threadbare than what showed onscreen?

Stiff and lifeless and had none of the fucked-up obsession that burned in Patricia Highsmith and that she wrote into her novel.

Todd and I cruised each other once. Is he still hot?

Was he ever hot?

nope

C. Blanchett is LIFE!

I preferred Blue is the Warmest Colour.

I'm a lesbian so the audience for this movie is primarily me. The so-called "LGBTQ community" is not my community.

Yes, it's a great movie, but Desert Hearts is better

R46 Jesus, for a lesbian you seem to like 'middle age closeted ladies finally realize they love the flange' films, hardly lesbian, more male fantasy.

Sadly none of the 'LGBT' cinematic offerings mentioned rate as outstanding in general competition and that definitely includes 'Carol'. I don't know if it's the niche audience grabbing over-enthusiastically at what there is but at most these movies have been pleasant if tight-aseed. It is a puzzle that when gay talent has the opportunity to make a gay film it is usually 'meh', whereas gay contribution to general cinema has been invaluable.

It's like one of those tawdry 1950's lesbian pulp novels ("The Shop Girl & The Lady"?). Haynes has a style that is detached but hypnotic; he's one of those directors who should have been a production designer or something. His characters always come off as chilly and remote.

Rooney Mara seems like she's on the autism spectrum.

Cate Blanchett's performance is unreal, as in no credible human behaves like that. Arch, theatrical, weird. A surburban Katharine Hepburn. I thought Rooney Mara actually brought some humanity to the film. I liked the husband. Anyway, it looked nice.

I’m a lesbian and love Carol. But Cate Blanchett has zero sex chemistry. I think Cate cardboard cutout could emote more passion kissing than a real life Cate. I read somewhere that Kate Winslet was considered for the role of Carol. I think she’s an equally great actress but exudes way more passion on screen.

Carol is def the best lesbian centric film it’s just not very passionate. Plus Roony Mara is completely blah.

I thoroughly enjoyed this movie, the setting, the props and costumes, as well as Blanchett. There could have certainly been more passion, but I am not sure that can be blamed on either character I think Blanchett would have had better chemistry with someone else.

"... the setting"

Trivia: it was filmed in Cincinnati- not New York.

Rooney Mara lucked out and got some attention early on because she was the lead in a Fincher film. Her work since then has been unremarkable and at times downright terrible. She is such a dreary presence. It's really no wonder you never hear about her anymore. The bloom is long off the rose.

And looks it, R53.

R53 I specifically was referring to the time, which is also part of setting. Why do you you smug bitches always have to expose your own ignorance? Try for less assuming and less cunting in your future endeavours.

Oh the horrors! G-d forbid it was filmed in Flyoverstani! Must be a crap film!

I loved A Single Man. Colin Firth at his best.

R23 bingo on ALL your picks!! i thought it was interesting that robin AND Maggie (Siff) were together in it when they were both in Sons of Anarchy as well...... anyway loved all these movies!

The LGBTQ community includes lesbians so stop pretending to be offended by this

I don't they're offended by the LGB part of the alphabet, R60.

I always watch this around Christmas. Love the sets, costumes, and ambience.

[quote]why are there much more gay films than lesbian films? strange...

Why are there more films about men than women, period? The answer to both questions is the same.

Most screenwriters, moguls, producers and directors are male

Can we do a male remake with George Clooney as a closeted business tycoon who seduces shopbottom Zac Efron?

I would like to know why almost all gay/lesbian films are either horribly amateurish in both writing and acting or just big, polite snoozes. I think what people need to do is come up with an interesting story first and then just happen to make the leads gay or lesbian. I feel like they focus on the gay/lesbian aspect so much and are too scared to make the characters flawed or interesting, because some dumbass at GLADD or on Twitter will say this is an offensive portrayal and doesn't speak for all gays or lesbians. Shit, give me Cruising or Basic Instinct any day of the week over these crappy movies. At least those were entertaining and well made.

Most gay/lesbian films are so excessively dreary.

R66, that has been my gripe for years. They try to make the gay/lesbian protagonists into these perfect saints but then the character and in turn, the film suffers. I don't want some poster child of the LGB movement as a lead character, I want someone who is flawed and has layers. And I sure as hell don't want Heather Hogan types bitching endlessly when a gay/lesbian character is written as the antagonist.

why dont LGBT movies ever end in a wedding? I dont get it

The book was far better than the film. For instance, Carol lures the PI into an empty desert road and seriously contemplates killing him. The stupid motel confrontation isn't in the book

Too much fire was cut away in the screenplay.

No. The Talented Mr. Ripley is the best. No "happy ending" or "positive gay message" but thrilling from start to finish.

"Who's Afraid of Vagina Wolf" was infinitely better than "Carol."

No

[quote] Most gay/lesbian films are so excessively dreary.

Like the one I saw on Saturday: 'The Miseducation of Cameron Post'. Jezz it was so sad and bleak, no sexiness in the lesbian sex scenes. At some point in the film, as is ever the case, one of the characters tries to commit suicide and I thought to myself, this is it, this is HW's plan to persuade gay people to off themselves. Queer-bashing is not needed anymore, only by showing those films they are telling future generations of gays: 'It gets worse'

R73, Trans is the new gay. Fear not! The new lesbian film heroine will find happiness when she binds her breasts and shoves a sock in her 501's. No more lesbian suicide when you can just kill your true spirit yet continue to breathe in the body of a young male. Yay!

R39, I was not. The fur was horrible, though- it smelled.

I've worked on all of his films since FAR FROM HEAVEN (obviously not the head designer), and I agree with you. I've posted in many threads about the films over the years. I am devoted to Todd, though, best boss ever.

By boss, I mean director. Obviously not a direct report, but one forgets on set.

Hell no, it bored me silly. And just a remake of the 30 year old "Desert Hearts" anyway. I guess that's all mainstream audiences can handle. And lesbians of course, not scary gay men, who are not only homos but have penises!!!

No. Moonlight was great.

Nope

Lilting

Boys Don't Cry

Brokeback Mountain

I also didn’t buy Rooney and Cate as a couple. What was the attraction? I can see Rooney being interested in an older woman but I didn’t understand Cate’s interest in Rooney.

Rooney is so overrated

I thought Rooney was fantastic, as was Cate.

Cate was great

[quote]I can see Rooney being interested in an older woman but I didn’t understand Cate’s interest in Rooney.

This was my issue with it as well. I didn't buy Carol being captivated by Therese. The film is exquisitely made, but without that chemistry and understandable connection, it fell flat for me.

God, no.

Maybe a deeper exploration of Carol’s attraction to Therese would’ve made it more believable. Pairing Cate with a different actress also could’ve helped.

R60 when did the Q get in LGBTQ? What's it stand for? Can't be Queer as that's all of LGBT. Quality? Quivering?

"Better Than Chocolate"

"The Killing of Sister George"

"Lillianna" (John Sayles directed)

Everything Cate Blanchett stars in is a lesbian movie imo. She pings so loud I almost can't hear a word anyone is saying.

Wishful thinking, R92. Head on back to L Chat.

Not really 93

This movie had ME ME ME written all over it....(my favorite movie is LITTLE WOMEN)...but I found it deadly boring. I had to watch it in 3 sittings because my mind kept wandering.

I think it’s because Rooney Mara’s character was so passive. I wanted to give her shock treatment or something.

Wake UP ! !

[quote]R66 I would like to know why almost all gay/lesbian films are either horribly amateurish in both writing and acting or just big, polite snoozes.

Have you seen BOUND? It’s beautifully crafted, and exciting!

Bound is a good one, but also remember - the two leads aren't poorly written and dull saints like most of these movies. They're very flawed and complex women. That's probably one of the best LGBT movies of all time.

Best LGBT Movie Ever?

Female Trouble!!!

"Boys in the Band" is infinitely better than "Carol."

"Maurice" is, too.

"Shit, give me Cruising or Basic Instinct any day of the week over these crappy movies. At least those were entertaining and well made."

If you think Cruising was a good movie then you have shit for taste

Moonlight and Brokeback were good. I think the lesbian equivalent to those in quality and importance was the little seen and rarely referenced Aimee and Jaguar. I think lesbians get better foreign films than domestic. Imagine Me and You was fun and had a happy ending. Concussion was hot but I like Robin Weigert and she looked the best I've ever seen her in that film.

I found Carol boring. Almost as boring as Maurice! Maybe gay films with a single name title are doomed.

[quote]R97 That's probably one of the best LGBT movies of all time.

The male writers/directors of BOUND were also smart, and humble, enough to bring in an actual lesbian (Susie Bright) to advise them on the sex scenes.

You can see Bright as an extra in the bar scene HERE, which also includes some of her off-screen commentary:

Nightmare on Elm Street 2

Carol was gross predator.

They are both adults, R104.

Bi boyfriend got hard re-playing the bedroom sex scene over and over. And, that's why I dumped him.

R106, that wasn't even a very good scene. Most of it was blurry and hidden. You should see the one in Desert Hearts, especially considering when that movie came out!

We should start a thread on the worst LGB films of all time. I'm sure we would not be lacking for material.

[quote] Was he ever hot?

You must be young.

No, R109. I just have the gift of sight.

Oh so you met him too?

@R51

[quote] Carol is def the best lesbian-centric film

Nah. Have you ever heard of "Blue is the warmest colour"?

I love Todd Haynes, though not all of his films. Met him 2 times, years apart and he remembered me. We had fun, interesting conversations. I’m not hot, and I’m not well connected in the movie industry. I also saw give a talk after a showing of Superstar at the Portland Art Museum. Great public speaker. Humorous, self deprecating and interesting.

Alas, I was disappointed in Carol, for the same reasons many upthread have stated.

Blue Is The Warmest Colour is marred by the male director's creepy, porny approach to the sex scenes. It became clear at a certain point that he was filming for his own personal spank bank and not in the service of telling the story. And it made me uncomfortable for the actresses, whose discomfort was visible onscreen.

Haynes is the director equivalent of beige paint.

R114, I do remember that being the line of attack on the director by those who didn't like the film. Instead of judging the film on its own merits, they chose to malign the director.

Find me one interview with the director that supports your claim. (Not the actresses, the director.)

I saw the film and I though it deserved the Palme d'Or. It's a beautiful piece of cinema.

If women watching Blue and the actresses playing the parts thought the sex scenes were skeevy, they were skeevy. The male director denying it in his own defense is the least convincing thing I can imagine.

There are more sexually charged lesbian films now. Carol just isn’t one of them honestly the movie could have been PG13 and given the same results. Blue is is the Warmest Color, Below Her Mouth, and even Disobedience showed co-stars with actual sexual chemistry on screen.

Cate Blanchett an amazing actress but cannot kiss for shit. So her attempts love scenes fall kind of flat. Even in Benjamin Button I think Brad Pitt had more chemistry with the dresser than Blanchett.

No one said the scenes were skeevy until the two actresses complained about being uncomfortable during the filming. Once the on set situation became a story the backlash started.

Spielberg had plenty of praise for the two actress and the director.

She can do so many things, but can't kiss? She can play Bob Dylan better than Bob Dylan but can't Kiss? I don't remember what her kissing looks like.

Some of the better acted and written lesbian films were unfortunately made just before the wave of "oh, we can show that now and not be rated X" so they're quite lacking in anything erotic. And the most of the more recent ones have middling scripts and performances/direction but some decent soft porn. The situation is even worse really with gay films because there are so many more of them. With few exceptions, all the really well made ones turn the gay into a eunuch. Eventually, it'll even out -- if everyone in Hollywood isn't put in a concentration camp.

Well, there’s always Deneuve and Sarandon in THE HUNGER ( [bold]03:20 mark[/bold] ) ... if you don’t mind lesbians/bisexuals being depicted as predatory bloodsuckers who’ll drain your life or — in the best case scenario — eventually shove you in a coffin to molder for eternity.

Lead up to scene in r121

Fuck Sarandon...and not in the good way.

If she was good enough for Catherine DENEUVE, she’s good enough for YOU!

I don't find either of them attractive. And I hate vampire movies.

Rooney Mara is a talking bowl of oatmeal that was left out on the table for a week. She couldn't generate heat from a tanning bed. So no.

Cate deserved better.

I thought Rooney Mara was good in Side Effects.

Mooo!

I wonder if Kate Winslet would’ve done a better job playing Carol.

I don't think Kate could have gotten much more out of Rooney. That girl really is about as exciting as a slice of cardboard soaked in hobo piss.

The Hunger's lesbian stuff isn't bad. I really like that movie. It's beautifully shot and even, I, as a gay man, would fall under Catherine Deneuve's spell. She's stunning here. Same with Daughters of Darkness with Delphine Seyrig. That's a really underrated lesbian vampire movie, but Seyrig gives her vamp so much personality and brains. You can't take your eyes off her when she's on screen.

I don't think the actresses were the main problem with the cold and distant feel Carol had. I think it was the director. I find all of his movies very distant. I think they played the scenes like Haynes wanted them to play them. He wanted them to seem a little less than real like the 1950s movies he tries to copy the sense and look of. It went along with his weird filming decisions to have things blurry or obscured or upside down.

It looked like they spent 75 percent of the movie lighting and fiercely posing Cate, arranging her fair and bouncing rays off her lips. "Cate, can you squint your eyes more smolderingly at the camera? That's amazing!"

Then when it came to Rooney the 2nd AD was like "Hey Rooney, can we borrow your iPhone to shoot this scene? Go over there...that's too dark...oh whatever..."

I meant to add Kate Winslet with someone else playing Therese.

Who would guys pick instead of Rooney? Obviously she’s used her deep connections to get great roles.

I’m not sure r134. Any suggestions? Who’s a younger actress that Cate or Kate would have chemistry with?

R135, Emma Watson.

What about Saoirse Ronan as Therese?

Color Purple was the best

R47, just saw your odd comment. Desert Hearts is loved by lesbians. It's directed by a lesbian and based on a book written by a lesbian. So, get lost. This thread is about Carol, which features a near middle-aged woman. Why click on it if you have a problem with these kinds of books/movies, or lesbian authors in general?

I can't think of a lesbian movie that is less male fantasy than Desert Hearts.

Good for you r140, but lesbians like it too. Is it a problem for you just because the women are hot and they sexually desired each other?

Carol sucked. Here's the best lgbt movie ever below at the link.

What is a "LGBT movie"? Trans is a totally separate issue from same-sex love.

R141, you might want to read what I wrote again.

r143, the term LGBT includes gays AND trans people. But you knew that......

So, r145, an "LGBT movie" is one that is of interest to gays and trans people (but not lesbians or bis? you missed them out)? Why do trans object to gays playing trans characters in movies then?

No, genius, it can be of interest to gays OR trans people. It's an umbrella term.

No. It is the best LGBT melodrama and is certainly well made. Brokeback Mountain is the greatest LGBT tragedy. Call Me by Your Name is the best romance/coming of age.

But Carol can also be of interest to straight people as well, r146. Shall we include straights in the umbrella term?

What is LGBT an umbrella term for? Same-sex love and something unrelated?

^ I mean r147, of course.

Trans movies SUCK unfortunately

R114 very true. I thought it was exploitative. However, I went to a lesbian reading group in London and it didn't seem to bother this particular group of lesbos. They went on and on about how they thought it was the pinnacle of lesbian film-making, blah, blah, blah....I must say I made some enemies that evening and was deleted from their membership e-mailing list.

bound is awesome. so is my summer of love.

and cmbyn doesn't deserve to wipe the floors my summer of love has walked on. there, i said it