Vivien Leigh

Homewrceking gets kindof confounding with mental illness.

I don’t think Leigh “bullied” Collins TOO much....as she just visited the set once or twice.

The little bitch should have stayed in her own corner.

R1 I know Vivien was mentally ill, but as Tamara Finch said in the article above, she was also a selfish cruel bully but people gave her pass and treated her as a victim at all times.

She was a hot mess, kind of a combination of her two best movie roles, Scarlett and Blanche.

Who cares? She got a Tony for dancing the Charleston!

I was just going to say, R4, she sounds a lot like Blanche DuBois with her mental illness and sexual appetite.

No wonder she gave two of the greatest performances in cinema history with those two roles, she wasn't far removed from those characters in real life.

I would say she was a selfish, difficult person...as are most stars.

Surely Laurence Olivier, Warren Beatty and Joan Collins were no walk in the park, either.

If I remember correctly Vivien dismissed Joan Collins as common when Beatty introduced her.

Vivien's behavior as documented in OP's article is so appalling that I am amazed her marriage to Olivier lasted as long as it did. The scene Tamara Finch recounts arriving at the house in Los Angeles with her young daughter to find wardrobes of beautiful new clothes waiting for them courtesy of Vivien strikes me as sinister for some reason.

R7 Not just difficult, she was a cruel bully

If you read the link in OP, just one of the many horrifying accounts detailed there, Vivien mocking the appearance of Tamara Finch, making fun of her long nose,. Tamara's confidence was so shaken that she underwent plastic surgery on her nose, when Vivien saw her in the presence of many friend, she said "Tamara is the most courageous person i've ever known, she has just done plastic surgery on her nose to try to look more glamorous "

Also from the OP's article, the scene where Vivien burst into Peter and Tamara Finch's bedroom after they made love, screaming obscenities at them, tearing the bed clothes, demanding Peter to leave his wife because he is now her lover. It was not just mental illness.

VL was messed up from an early age. If you read the definitive biography of her you learn she was sent away to a boarding / convent school at a very, very young age. The nuns did a number on her.

How could Vivien hurt people and cruelly treat them but they still loved her till the end?!! If some average/ordinary looking person had done just 5% of Vivine crazy antics, it would be totally different case.

After reading that article I understand why Noel Coward wrote of Vivien: "Fond as I am of her and sorry as I feel for her, I would like to give her a good belting..."

Apparently during Vivien's relatively sane periods she would write letters to people whom she had hurt or offended when she was manic to apologize for her dreadful behavior. Given the cyclic nature of bipolar affective disorder there must be a lot of those apology letters.

That’s sad R14. Mental illness is a bitch.

She was manipulative.

And treatment in those days was primitive and barely effective, even if the symptoms were recognized for what they were, r14 and r15. She also battled TB for years because her mental issues meant she couldn't really take care of herself physically even after effective treatments became readily available.

R14 According to Tamara Finch, Vivien never apologized to her

R17 There is no denying that Vivien had mental illness (plus T.B as well), but that was Not an excuse for her cruel bullying and home-wrecking acts.

People who are bipolar and in a manic state don't need to be excused for their behaviour. They are sick and need help, and they are acting in a way that is beyond their control and mortifies them if/when they can recall their actions later.

Loving someone who is mentally ill or who has a substance abuse problem (Leigh was also an alcoholic) it's easy to get drawn into this endless exhausting argument around 'Is this their illness? Or is this really who they are?" I understand why people just become fed up with the whole mess and detach themselves.

R20 I don't think she was in manic state when she was making fun of Tamara's long nose and continued to do so infront of people, Also she made it clear to Tamara from the start that she would steal her husband (Peter Finch), she told her, he maybe yours now but he will mine soon. She continued to manipulate the whole thing till Peter left his wife for her (like she did years before with Larry Olivier)

Yes, that's what they have to do, r21, detach themselves or become destroyed themselves. Olivier had to do it but by most accounts he loved the Vivien he fell in love with until he died. And as someone said above, no, it is not an excuse and is not to be excused. But it's the reason. There's a difference.

Are people having an epileptic seizure "not to be excused"? They are having a seizure because they have epilepsy. Someone is having a manic episode because he/she has bipolar disorder. Reason given. No excuse is required.

I so wish Laurence Olivier had been bisexual. Wait, was he? He was GORGEOUS. Viv had nothing on Larry.

You mean like woman who had been told not to drive and had a seizure driving in Brooklyn and ran down Ruthie Ann Miles and her friend crossing the street, severely injuring them and killing their kids? That's to be excused because she had a medical condition?

Vivien was bi-polar she wasn't a raving loon. She could do very articulate interviews and public appearances. She behaved the way she did to Tamura Finch, especially those public comments, because she saw herself as being a superior human being. And most at the time agreed that she was, being the most beautiful and talented mega star of the 1930s and all. She was egotistical and selfish like most Old Hollywood stars were, as they were hyped as superhumans back then.

Did Marlon Brando fuck her during the filming of ASND? He seems to have screwed most of his leading ladies.

Was she caught wearing a home made "A Low Tamera" tee shirt at some point?

R27 Thank you, I'm sick of people giving Vivien Leigh a pass for all her shitty hurtful actions because she was bipolar, she wasn't maniac all the time.

R28 Marlon Brando said in his autobiography that he didn't fuck Vivien Leigh although he could, because he liked Larry very much. He also said Vivien was fucking every and anybody on the set.

Vivien was given a pass exactly because she wasn't a manaic all the time. She appeared elegant and appealing in her public appearances. That, combined with her outstanding beauty and artistic achievements, secured the public's love for her despite her being a serial homewrecker. She had agency as she used her fame and power to trample upon those unfortunate wives who so happened to be in her way.

R32 But Not only the public who gave her a pass, it was friends/lovers/husbands around her, they always considered her cruel cunty selfish actions as amusing and brushed it aside and couldn't be angry with her.

We have to remember how, back in the old days, people believe in manners before morals. Coming from old money, Vivien had immaculate manners save for those explosive bi-polar episodes. That and she truly was considered that one and only most beautiful woman in the world, the proverbial fairest of all. Men and even woman admire her for her aesthetics and her charisma. Even as her beauty faded with time, everyone remembered what once was. If anything Vivien's aging out of beauty made her even more sympathetic to those close to her, as they continued indulging her difficult ways.

R34 Vivien wasn't the most beautiful woman in the world.

She had a moustache.

You can see her dusty upper-lip most clearly in the expanded 70mm version GWTW.

Oh, she probably just forgotten to wax around a few scenes. They had technology to remove even an actress' hairline back then (See Rita H and Marilyn M). Facial hair can't dethrone Viv.

Vivien always sounded more like she had borderline personality disorder- impulsive, manipulative, angry, attention seeking, jealousy/envy, a pattern of intense and unstable relationships...

R36 But did they have moustache-wax back in the 30s?

[quote]She deliberately destroyed both Laurence Oliver and Peter Finch marriages

Lol at destroying Laurence Olivier's marriages Olivier was gay

It takes two to wreck a home......

Sometimes it takes three.

R41 STFU

- Joan Plowright

R37 I agree with you, Vivien told Tamara she was jealous when she saw how happy her and Peter Finch were, Also Vivien would have jealous angry fits if Peter complemented his wife or hugged her.

She had some deep psychological problems and had what many gay men can relate to..........a problem with nymphomania. Married to the egotistical masochistic prick like Larry Olivier couldnt have been a picnic, add to that he was gay, didnt make for a great union I would think.

I think Leigh was a great actress and was especially good in Roman spring of Mrs Stone. The tramp Joan collins slept with enuf married men to probably not have the right to call out Warren Beatty and Leigh on anything that might have happened. I would suspect Leigh didnt have to try too hard to get Beatty in the sack.

r38 Not sure about wax, but they already had electrolysis hair removal which was how Rita Hayworth got her new hairline.

She was a drunkard.

R45 Did Rita keep that hairline throughout her career?

I admit I've never paid her much attention but I just adore this homage to her—

r47 I believe so. I don't think it ever grew back.

A pic from late in 1977.

^ Thank you.

There's a good book about Viv on Amazon. $7.99 for the Kindle edition.

She's turns up in Scotty Bowers's book btw. He talks about going to fuck her in a cottage on an estate in Benedict Canyon. Sounds like the place in OPs article.

Her death was sad. She really struggled at the end and died alone.

Poor Vivien. She appeared on stage in London in 1935 in 'The Mask of Virtue'.

She was an oversight sensation. She was as pretty and perfect as Delft China they all said.

Twenty years later— the mask was torn away and the China was cracked!

She also broke up her first husband’s engagement to another woman. Vivian saw, Vivian wanted, Vivian got. Then she dumped him when the marriage was no longer convenient.

Noel Coward wrote about her in his diaries, and the Vivien parts have been excerpted here more than once. At one point he just lashes out in his diary and says everybody feels badly for her BUT she has been so spoiled and indulged she has become impossible. These were attributes that were in her personality, not things that happened when she was having an episode. I remember reading about her being extremely mean to a co-star in the stage version of Streetcar. The costar was trying to keep his distance as he found her extremely manipulative. BUT, one day she asks him if he'd like her to speak to David O'Selznick about him (Selznick was past his glory days but still in the biz) The actor, being an actor, couldn't help but say yes. (He had no film career and of course the prospect of getting film work was exciting). So he says yes, and then time passes, and Vivien says nothing. Hating himself, the actor finally asked if she'd spoken to Selznick and she says, "Oh yes. He does't think you have any future in film." or something equally devastating. She knew he would ask if she just waited long enough. It's how she got revenge for him not being in her thrall.

Beatty did fuck Vivien Leigh in Roman Spring of Mrs. Stone, at least according to Sarah Miles, who had a bit part in the movie (and also had an affair with Laurence Olivier at one point). Sarah Miles' stories about herself always run to, "This famous guy thought I was hot and was also in love with me and his girlfriend/wife was jealous." So of course, according to Sarah, she got the part, had no lines, and when she got on set it was clear to her Vivien Leigh and Warren Beatty were doing it. Warren's eyes OF COURSE wandered to Sarah, whereupon Vivien ordered wardrobe that Sarah could only wear black. She was, of course, afraid of the competition, as all women were around Sarah. So wardrobe and Sarah got the better of Vivian by putting Sarah in a skin tight black leather dress. Which, per Sarah, meant Warren could look only at her and not Vivian.

God, she had a toxic side but was so captivating at the same time.

And I don't think she died alone as in abandoned. Jack Merivale, whom Sir Olivier approved of, was her lover till death. Her first husband Leigh Holman (whose prior engagement she broke up) was also spending a lot of time with her in her last years. She died by an accidental bout of illness in one brief moment where she was left alone, that was all. Viv had men catering to her unto the very end.

one of these days I really must try to watch "Gone with the Wind"....but I really am more suited to Vivian Vance than this chick.

R54 She died alone. And on her commode.

Larry's memoirs noted the irony. As she was so appalling prissy in her life wearing gloves all the time so didn't have to touch the ugly things.

I often read forums dedicated to fans of old school actors. There are Jean Harlow forums, Carole Lombard forums, etc. Some of the fans have stories of information they got from twice removed sources at some point in their lives - growing up, or in an era before everyone who knew those stars died themselves. (Like one fan had a chance to hang out with Robert Stack at one period of her life and she tried to pump him for info about Carole Lombard.) Or they get stories from their parents who knew someone or met someone. So one fan, a Carole Lombard fan, says when she was growing up her mother was in security and was doing personal security at a hotel for George Raft, an old time movie actor who was an old boyfriend and co-star of Carole Lombard, and was crazy for her. The daughter was hanging out with her mother one day with Raft at the hotel and was pumping him for everything he could remember. He hated Clark Gable (Raft did). The fan was asking him about Carole's death and what happened, why did she take a plane, etc. Raft said it was because Gable was a "whoremaster" who was driving Carole crazy by "fucking Lana Turner and that broad from Gone with the Wind."

I can't remember all the specifics that put these fans in proximity at one point with old time actors or people who knew the stars, but it was usually undramatic and the old time people were happy to talk. I believe myself that Vivien Leigh and Clark Gable fucked, because they were both whores, and because you can't read about Gone with the Wind without reading that Vivien hated kissing him because of his terrible denture breath, yet when you read bios of women it is known he slept with, such as Joan Crawford, his wives, etc., nobody is mentioning his breath. It's a very Vivien-specific problem, apparently. Then "Gable" wrote an essay about working with Vivien, to go along with the release of the movie, explaining in many many paragraphs that, basically, they never fucked because he loved Carole and she loved Olivier. (He didn't say fuck, but you get the point.) It seems an odd article for a fan magazine to want to publish.

Finally, when I was growing up, it was right before VCRS so I only saw old movies at college showings or on television. But I read old movie books and saw a thousand stills from GWTW. It's customary for actors to "pose" for the still camera on set a la the scene they were shooting that day. Well, the stills of Gable and Vivien Leigh had so much kissing, I thought the movie was going to have a lot of kissing. There's a still of them locked in a full body embrace with a huge kiss while she's wearing that red dress Rhett makes Scarlet wear. There's a still of him comforting Scarlet when she wakes from a nightmare and then another full body embrace and huge kiss. Basically every scene they were in together, there's a movie still of them locking lips in a pretty major way. And finally I see the movie and none of these kisses are in the movie. Of course he's not kissing her when she's in the red dress - the characters are estranged. He does not kiss her when he comforts her after her nightmare. He does not kiss her in all kinds of scenes. The two movie kisses between them I recall are when he kisses her when she's a widow, and when he kisses her while they're fleeing Atlanta. But the movie stills are just nonstop kissing. It's a little weird considering her reported issues with his breath and they're kissing more than the movie.

When it comes to old movie stars, and not just these two, I have come to believe that when a biography or a story suddenly stops in the middle to announce that two people did NOT sleep together and here are the reasons why, then they probably did.

She did not die on the commode. She was on the floor. She peed herself when dying. Laurence Olivier is an asshole to share that detail, but then, that's what assholes do.

I will never understand her obsession with him. Even when she wasn't in love with him, even when it was burned to to where there was no hope they could even stand each other, she hung on and hung on. Was it being Lady Olivier? Did she get it in her head and just obsess about greatness in the theatre and she wanted to "beat" him at it? What the hell. They were both fucking other people most of the marriage and yet hanging onto "Larry" was all she cared about.

I read "Larry's" auto bio and she wasn't prissy and she didn't wear gloves all the time. I think she was probably a bitch or borderline or spoiled or any combination of bad things, but that never happened or was said. "She wore gloves all the time so she didn't have to touch the ugly things." He mentioned the pee and how humiliating it was because she was so fastiduous (someone who travelled with her said she folded a silk square over her underwear). Of course it was only humiliating because "Larry" told the world in his autobio. Otherwise nobody would have known.

Sounds like while Sir Olivier might've been a great actor, but he was also a fame whore desperate for attention.

Piss or not Viv had various men in her life pampering her in those last years, long after her beauty had completely expired. It isn't anything close to a tragic ending for so difficult a person.

I'll take one Viven Leigh over 1000 Tamara Finches anyday.

Yes, let's all blame Vivien for Peter Finch not being able to keep his dick out of her.

Vivien wore gloves because she thought her hands were ugly.

Also: 'Sir Laurence' or 'Lord Olivier' (not 'Sir Olivier')

R58 She hung on and hung on because he was a promethean man of unending energy and a Lord of the British Empire. They went on tours to the colonies as unofficial ambassadors for the Empire, Shakespeare and British Culture.

wow, that is Vivien Leigh? in the above photo, she looks like Harriet Nelson, as in Ozzie and Harriet.... not that that is a bad thing.

R64 She was a small Englishwoman with a small plummy English voice.

Those frumpy 1950s hairstyles were universally unflattering.

Vivien was twice the beauty and ten times the actress Joan was.

She was staying up at George Cukor's house which is where Scotty used to visit her:

"She was kind of kooky. You know, cute little body and sweet, but kind of kooky, like she’d say, “We shouldn’t be doing this. Why do we do this? Why do you come here?” I wanted to say, “Bitch, you asked me to and you opened the goddamn gate for me and let me in and here we are.” Then the moment we’re in bed she’s screaming and hollering, and I mean really screaming and before that she was whispering and writing me notes."

R66 I wonder if Vivien is aping the young Queen with that do and the 3 strings of cultured pearls.

( I don't know if Vivien's hair was naturally curly or not. We think we know these people but we only see them in character in movie roles.)

Her hair was naturally wiry/frizzy and difficult to work with. I read somewhere that Vivien had it straightened but I don't know if that was a chemical process back then or if stylists used a straightening iron.

Olivier had a handsome face, but his legs were almost twig like. So awful.

I like watching her small movies —such as 'Storm in a Teacup'— which isn't in itself particularly good but at least it shows her as she would have appeared in real life, smaller, more natural and not the magnified, manufactured Hollywood Goddess look.

R64 - I thought the same thing and then I read your comment.

Though she was no Vivian Leigh, Harriet Hillard Nelson was pretty foxy in her youth as well.

Despite her manias, meanness and craziness there are many stories of her generosity and kindness and how she inspired love and affection in people..

There are NONE about Olivier

R74 We are Not talking here about Larry Olivier, the thread is about cruel bitchy Vivien.

It's true, though-- it's rare to hear of anyone warmly reminiscing about Olivier or speaking affectionately about him. I saw an interview from the 1960s and Olivier presented as insecure and introverted and seemingly annoyed with everything-- far from the confident charm Vivien displays during interviews.

R76 We get it, Let's move on to cunty Vivien's antics!

"I could almost stand to look at Joan Crawford's face at 6am, but not Bette Davis."

- Vivien Leigh, on her reason for refusing to star in Hush Hush Sweet Charlotte.

R76 Also you know that Sociopaths are very charming and confident as well.

Was she High Point's spokeswoman before Bacall?

From a now-defunct website about VL:

[quote]Vivien once told me, with a malicious glee dancing in those beautiful eyes, that one day in Hollywood she'd been walking between studio lots with a friend when she saw an extraordinary figure coming towards them. 'He, or she, I wasn't sure which, had on a grubby cotton beach hat with the brim pulled down, a threadbare sweater draped over round shoulders, quite the droopiest of shorts ever, knee-high woolen socks, and, I swear to you, darling, football boots! Football boots! I turned to my friend and said "What's THAT?" "That" he replied, "is Garbo."'

^ Vivien made a better Karenina than Garbo.

Just watched Streetcar again on PBS.

Vivian Mary Hartley can do no wrong.

R21 Loving someone who is mentally ill or who has a substance abuse problem (Leigh was also an alcoholic) it's easy to get drawn into this endless exhausting argument around 'Is this their illness.

She was an alcoholic? I can’t even remember mention of her having a favorite drink.

For instance, Grace Kelly preferred cocktail was vodka and club soda, Bette Davis liked scotch, Marion Davies preferred gin, and Joan Crawford guzzled straight, 100 proof Smirnoff (of course)...but i’ve never read of anything similar Leigh even liked.

Man R56, you are so right about 1950s hairstyles. Made everybody look matronly.

Vivien Leigh's beauty hadn't expired by the time she died, but her youth certainly had. She stopped looking young by the time she was in her 30s - her skin began to look worn and depleted. This could also have been smoking and drinking taking its toll. She also wasn't that fortunate in her figure. I am amazed when I look at early costume tests for GTWT - her neck was as long as a swan's, her head was teensy tiny, and her shoulders were almost nonexistent. In the wrong neckline and hairdo, she looked like a Q-tip. The costume designers for GWTW worked hair, necklines and shoulder treatment to balance out her upper body and make her head look like it belonged to the rest of her body instead of floating in space. You can see the costume tricks for the rest of her film career (just as I can see costume tricks for other stars to bring their silhouettes into balance). Vivien Leigh's face was beautiful and so was her coloring, but her figure was ordinary and once she got older I think it settled into the matronly look as her legs were kind of shapeless and her figure wasn't especially defined.

I read a bio of Vivien Leigh. The Mask of Virtue was where she first became something of a star. It was an undemanding role that mostly required her to be her gorgeous self, but after reading the bio, Jesus, the amount of WORK it took for her to actually get the role despite having the perfect looks for it, and even more work to keep it. She was inexperienced and not very good once the gasp of her looks were past, but it did give me respect for someone like her who is tenacious enough to keep their grasp on something when one second of distraction and she'd have lost the role. It was by no means an overnight success thing. She had great publicity for it but to actually finally get cast, despite the hype, and keep it, despite her not being great in rehearsals, and to have to continue to work on her technique and performance during the run lest people in the industry notice she wasn't very good; it was just a lot, and a lot of humiliation.

Vivien Leigh was definitely alcoholic.

Well...did it cost her jobs? Relationships? Cause public embarrassments? Usually alcoholics’ lives fall apart or suffer. I’ve read several books about her and don’t remember drinking playing any huge role in her life (tho she entertained a lot)

What happened with Viv’s relationship with her only child, a daughter with her first husband who she allegedly abandoned to be with Olivier?

Were they forever estranged? Any “Mommie Dearest” type stuff ever come out about her?

Vivien *was* stunning: seen here with her (first) Oscar...

Vivien and Larry looking in love here..

Glamour queen...

[quote]r88 What happened with Viv’s relationship with her only child, a daughter with her first husband who she allegedly abandoned to be with Olivier?

Her name was Suzanne Holman Farrington and she would vacation with her mother occasionally but Leigh was NOT the maternal sort.

She studied acting but didn’t pursue it. She later was an instructor at some beauty college.

At least her lackadaisical mom left her almost all her estate, including papers, scripts, diaries, etc. which she later sold to a museum.

Oops, meant this one!

Betty and Viv

In color

Thanks, R92! I’m sure there’s a very compelling backstory there, but Suzanne clearly did *not* get her mom’s famous looks!

But it looks like she escaped inheriting her mom’s mental illness too...

Someone upthread mentioned Vivien’s traumatic childhood. So, it seems like there were things other than just mental illness that helped make her the way she was.

To those who have read the bios: why was her childhood bad for her? What did “the nuns” allegedly do to her?

Viv and her blinged out cat...

On a leash!

It seems like she was just born a very pretty child—similar to Elizabeth Taylor.

Happy Halloween, bitches!

R99 That leash is to stop pussy urinating on the rosebeds.

This newly-released picture must be from Vivien's archive that Suzanne sold to the Victoria and Albert Museum for one million pounds a couple of years ago.

Vivien with her mother, Gertrude Hartley—who looks sad in every photo...

Gertrude knew she was unleashing a vixen on the the world.

Possibly, R102, but Viv *did* seem to like traveling around with her cat leashes...

So with these two psychos working on it (plus Tennessee Williams and Kazan) just how fucking crazy was the set of “A Streetcar Named Desire”?

Crazy and extraordinary enough to create something electrifying which is still disturbing and moving today.

I don't like that Streetcar..

Elia Kazan did it in black and white because he thought it was hard-hitting neo-realist drama. Whereas queens like us know that Tennessee was an extravagant poet who deserves full colour.

And silly Kazan exposed his inner queeniness a few years later with his loving wide-screen colour lens making love to peachy lips James Dean and his gorgeous white knitted sweater. And then after than he was fawning over similarly- pretty Warren Beatty plumbing the emotional depths and making love to his camera in 'Splendor'.

I do not see the word cunt in the title of this thread. Therefore we get to talk about her other facets as well. And as Olivier was the focus of her life and everything she did was to please him and the fact that she never stopped obsessing about him we get to talk about him as well, the negatives and if there were any positives about him as a person which there clearly weren't those as well. Talk about 100% proof cunt.

Amusing story in Maria Riva's bio of her mother Marlene Dietrich. Marlene comes home after a screening of Gone With The Wind. Maria is helping her undress, chatting about the film. Marlene is critical of the colour photography (Leslie Howard has "orange"hair.) "But she's not so bad, you know. She's seeing one of Noel's old boyfriends."

She-Vivien Leigh. Noel-Noel Coward. and the boyfriend, of course, Sir Larry.

R111 That is a hare-brained anecdote.And the chronology is all over the place.

Supposedly this anecdote happened in the 50s. Larry and Viv were well-passed 'seeing one another' by then.

She referred to Leslie Howard because he was in the film as Noel's old boyfriend. And as I've mentioned in a Coward biography it says that Noel and friends were playing a game of can you top this sexual partners and Coward pretty much said I win because I've had James Cagney.

Totally off topic, but R53's response reminded me that Sarah Miles and Christopher Jones hated each other on the set of "Ryan's Daughter"...

Sarah Miles and Christopher Jones grew to dislike one another, leading to trouble when filming the love scenes. Christopher was engaged to Olivia Hussey, and he was not attracted to Miles. He even refused to do the forest love scene with her, which prompted Miles to conspire with Mitchum. It was Mitchum who settled on the idea of drugging Jones by sprinkling an unspecified substance on his cereal. Mitchum overdosed Jones, however, and the actor was nearly catatonic during the love scene. He was never told by the producers about the drugging and believed he was having a nervous breakdown

R111 "On my mothers 38 birthday, she attended the West Coast gala Opening of Gone With The Wind. .... "Now I have seen everything! Leslie Howard with orange hair! .."That girl who plays the lead, the one who is so in love with Noel's old boyfriend who is so handsome and a good actor, she is very good"...Dietrich had many monologues on Gone With The Wind but that was the first."

Marlene Dietrich The Life. by her daughter Maria Riva. pages 495/496.

R111 take a breath next time before you jump in with your opinions.

If she lived would she have done The Love Boat like her contemporaries?

Was The Roman Spring of Mrs. Stone really considered a good movie? I wasn't impressed by any of the performances except for Lotte Lenya.

[quote]R97 To those who have read the bios: why was her childhood bad for her? What did “the nuns” allegedly do to her?

Well, they were Catholic...and Viv was a pretty child.

So, you can imagine...

[quote]R116 If she lived would she have done The Love Boat like her contemporaries?

I think there would have been more distinguished roles, first. Like maybe one of the Sisters on THE FLYING NUN.

I would have liked to see her play Diana Christensen.

[quote]according to Joan Collins book, she bullied her and tried to sleep with Warren Beatty during the filming of The Roman spring of Mrs Stone, but at that time Vivien was so old and Warren turned her down.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

She had a gift for comedy that was evident in her early roles. Too bad she couldn't have had some projects that showed that off later on.

She continued to do comedy on stage (e.g, Tovarich, Look after Lulu, Twelfth Night), but not on film as you say, R122. Maybe the roles just weren't there.

I could see her in Desk Set though.

R50 OMG she's so beautiful on this cover. Frankly I like the contrast: divine on the outside and gross on the inside. Quite a dramatic effect.

So are you saying Leslie didn't sleep with Noel? All the British male actors of the era slept with Noel. There was nobody bigger in the London theatrical whirl of the late twenties and early thirties.

Leigh and Liz Taylor were extraordinarily beautiful. Absolutely mesmerising. As per the fabulous Noel Coward Diaries and The Letters Of Noel Coward, Leigh became pregnant to Olivier (I think she was in her late 30's at the time) and miscarried at 6 months along. They had signed to do a play with him and didn't tell him "about the tot". He was absolutely furious and wrote them a stinging letter. In his opinion, it was crazy for them to have a child, given the drama in their lives and Vivien's mental instability. I think the miscarriage happened when she was in a manic state. Olivier wrote him a grovelling letter in return. The loss of that child was the end of the marriage, really. Both Vivien and Larry were hoping it would stabilise her illness and give them a reason to stay together.

Baby Tabatha

Fascinating.

From the horses mouth . . .

"Bowers found out about Vivien Leigh's sexual habits firsthand after she attended a dinner party at George Cukor's house on her own. As Bowers went to leave, Leigh whispered in his ear telling him to come back in 30 minutes. She was staying over in the guest suite and wanted company. Bowers returned, as ordered. He wrote:

We screwed as though the survival of the world depended on it. Vivien could not control herself. She was loud. She would squeal and holler and laugh. She had [spasm] after [spasm], and each one was noisier than the last. She yelled and called out louder and louder... this was one of the best f*cks I had ever had."

Peter Finch said " If you slept with Vivien, Nothing else matters"

No wonder Scotty was always smiling.

OMG!!

Funny how Gone With the Wind was such a revered and legendary film for decades, and now it's like a bastard stepchild. It has fallen so completely out of favor.

R134 Never liked this movie and never understood the hype, Glad it's forgotten now

[quote] [re Vivien's drinking]Well...did it cost her jobs? Relationships? Cause public embarrassments?

No, yes and yes,

Crazy bitches are the best fucks!

Disagree, R135; “Gone with the Wind”, its storytelling, character development, and performances (as well as its technology) was stunning at the time if its release as well as now.

It has simply become politically incorrect in Hollywood since #OscarsSoWhite.

Regardless of that, it is still an exceptional film and features one of the best Best Actress winning performances of all time in Vivien’s portrayal of Scarlett.

Viv was so good in Streetcar, especially the tarantula arms scene. The way she drops the highfalutin, Southern Belle act and deepened her voice when she finally confessed to her "many meetings with strangers," was extraordinary.

r138 I agree that Gone With the Wind is a stunning film, I just said that it's become very unfashionable to celebrate it these days. Do critics even dare put it on "best of" lists anymore? It's such a loaded movie now.

I hate it too, r135.

GWTW is a product of it's time and is what it is. It glosses over a lot of the slave portion, but it's really the story of a spoiled female Sociopath being exposed.

I liked her in “Ship of Fools”, too — what an amazing cast!

Remember as spoiled and ruthless as Scarlett is what makes people find her so compelling is not only her survival at any cost but also the survival of her family and the home of her beloved parents.

Scarlett loves her parents and family as a home very deeply. She loves her child. She is a great force of nature and it's why she can be considered more than simply a sociopath.

Her sense of survival is for other people and her home as well as herself. This is crucial for her to appeal to us.

Vivian Leigh was turbulently brilliant actress touched by fire (and madness and addiction) coping as best as she knew how with a volatile partner who suppressed his own bisexuality/homosexuality and gaslit her on many occasions for intuiting something was amiss.

Still, she is more known and awarded than Oliver and her films more beloved than his, so you can say In the end she won, professionally speaking.

Viv was just a song 'n dance girl at heart!

You Cunts are boring! Let's ruin people's lives!!!!!

R146, that clip is a delight, one of my longtime YouTube favorites! Even with the time code display covering her feet, watching Scarlett O’Hara dance the Charleston is a treat! And the flames from the Queen she’s dancing with fairly scorch the screen!

R122 The only comedy she made was 'Storm in a Teacup'— which I thought a rather unbalanced film which failed to make use of the star potential of Vivien and Rex.

DRAMA!

He looks damn manly to me!

R146 Her singing voice sounds like Lucille Ball on I love Lucy. Not very good.

R152 It's sad isn't it?

Poor Vivien lived in the days when it was thought fashionable to kill one self with nicotine.

How did Olivier gaslit her? Examples?

R154. We should discreetly ignore R154's foolish speculation.

Too many people are enflamed by Vivien's personal issues. Larry was a good man and a good husband.

He tried. But there was always Danny Kaye lurking in the background. After Larry, she really was living in the Tarantula Arms.

R159 Totally agree

R143 I thought she was very sad in “Ship of Fools”.

She had top billing but she had a few straightforward short scenes. All her scenes were shot in the studio with back-projection and some unimportant actors.

A very sad movie. It was more of a heavy-handed, episodic TV drama than a genuine movie like GWTW.

80% of the posts here are concentrating over her private life.

0% of us saw her on stage (where her abilities as an actress were sorely revealed).

100% of us have seen here as an carefully-packaged movie actress.

40% of those movies were good; 60% were disappointing failures.

R159 ** seen her as a carefully-packaged **

She was not the great beauty people made her out to be she had a nasty, pinched mean little face.

AGAIN, OP???

I think the thread was started to exclusively to discuss her personal life. The OP wanted to make sure we knew they considered her a shrew.

R163 But she was a shrew, my dear! A nasty, malicious little shrew.

Poor Larry, he was married to her.

R164 Totally agree

It doesn't matter, because you never met her and your life is not in the lease affected by her alleged shrewish behavior, you silly fishwife.

On the other hand, I wouldn't want to live in a world without GWTW, STREETCAR, or MRS. STONE.

R167 = Vivien Leigh's pussy

This biography has a rather amusing joke on p.271 with that super-bitch Tynan's summary of poor Vivien's rather poor performance playing Lavinia in 'Titus Andronicus'.