What is responsible for the dumbing down of the American people?

The influence of ‘urban culture’

Fox. Fox lionizes ignorance and bigotry. It is the true enemy of the people.

Corporate ownership of the media started it, and the internet just accelerated it by giving wide distribution to every nut job out there.

It wasn’t Fox News or social media. I think the dumbing down started long before either of these had the power they have today. I think it was Reagan Era politics that fostered greed and stupidity.

Reality tv

Video games

The Republicans openly attack the education system because they know ignorant people are more likely to vote for them, and against their best interests. That's why they're trying to privatize schools.

You just didn’t know it because their opinions weren’t plastered all over the Internet and social media and reported on incessantly.

Conservatives.

Republicans.

They've been destroying education for years. Removing critical thinking, civics, evolution, attacking science, white-washing history, and more.

[quote]Corporate ownership of the media started it

Since when was there anything BUT corporate ownership of the media?

Being intelligent and well educated seems to have been slowly devalued since the early 2000s.

Reagan Republicans were pretty stupid and very hateful. They literally celebrated the idea of AIDs and internalized the idea that misogyny should really be all about making sex deadly for women and gays because it gave them nice authoritarian chubbies and allowed them to paw through as much porn as they could find.

The push to turn the conservative party into a mouth breathing bunch of uneducated morons has always been an undercurrent of populist bootlicking movements -- but the 'true believer' faith based tests that required sexualized hypocrisy as well as eye watering ignorance even among the 'elites' who used to believe they were pulling the strings and just guiding the rubes finally won the day when Bob Dole had to pretend to give a shit about abortion as a platform issue.

Actually, American culture has always been inherently anti-intellectual. It came as part of the rebellion against the British. There are some great books about masculinity in American history—intellectuals have largely been considered weak and/or effeminate in this country. I could give you a list.

Or. for a less gendered explanation, check out Highbrow/Lowbrow: The Emergence of Cultural Hierarchy.

Organized religion, Fox News etc. are all recent, albeit extreme, manifestations.

-a Canadian with an American PhD

Public school and people who let social media tell them what to think

You're all right. None of you is wrong.

I hope I pass away quickly and quietly in my sleep tonight. I've had sufficient.

Correct, R12

I messed up in my description above at 11, because I left out how conservative sexual outrage politics became an excuse to talk about and fondle 'offensive' porn and pass it off as campaign materials. (Jesse Helms was the big US abuser of this 'pretending to be outraged by sexually exciting material' behavior to get attention and votes.) Making up a reason (political outrage and hate) to claim edgy art and semiporographic materials as news became a foundation for both desperate media execs and right wing politicians. Dumbing down and deliberately misunderstanding anything exciting allowed for the creation of the American branch of Murdoch's cheap tabloid Republicanism.

Social media by far this.

God. This is purgatory, and this progressive dumbing down is just another manifestation of it.

Check this out, OP (published in the 1960s)

Everyone buried in their smartphones. Attention spans of gnats. No longer reading longform articles. Relying on Google instead of working your brain to recall information.

r16, how old are you? The decline has began long before social media existed.

When was this supposed age of the intelligent American? I seemed to have missed it.

My party

R12, I like your insight. Marry me.

It was dubya bush and his "no child left behind" nonsense.

Most examples on this thread are effects, not causes, of American stupidity.

I think everyone here is correct, but social media has accelerated ideological ignorance because its based on speed, not accuracy.

The media was owned by corporations, but those media corporations were headed up by American or European immigrant Jews. After WWII, their outlook was all about inclusion, anti-discrimination, equality and had a tinge of socialism. The public Good was something to be encouraged. Consumer safety and corporate fairness.

Look at the 1950s and 1960s tv shows. Twilight Zone was a major proponent of postwar anti discrimination. Tons of Rod Serling's scripts were about prejudice, anti-intellectualism, totalitarianism, fascism and inequality. Even TV Westerns had a liberal bent to them. Bonanza was all about going up against bad guys who were venal, bigoted, greedy men who were bent on hurting not just the Cartwrights, but the public good. And bad guys always got caught or exposed for who they were - mendacious threats to the society. The good of the people was something that was always to be sought.

But everything changed in the 80s when the WWII veterans started retiring or dying. Bad guys realized they could disguise themselves as good guys, using good guy terms to describe greed and bad guy terms to describe public works and the public good. Greedy republican fascists targeted not just media but also religion. They began to reproduce the rock concert environment - big screens, microphones, feel good messages, crowds swaying to the preacher’s singsong sermons. And the biggest change of all was convincing evangelists to drop the fire & brimstone lectures about sinners going to hell. No! Sinners only went to hell if they didn’t repent. As soon as you repented your sins, you were cool with God and back in the fold. Sinning again? No problem. Just like AA, you go back to church after your sinning and say you’re sorry and will do better next time.

And that’s how we got here. Why pay people to write tv drama when you can just get regular people to endlessly argue and create false drama and call it reality?

Blacks breeding like rabbits.

I don't want to sound mean but Americans were never smart to begin with. I'm a foreigner, lived in America during the 90s, prior to Social media, then I moved all around the world. Americans were as stupid then as they are now 25 years later. They couldn't find their own country on a map in 1992 and still can't. I see no major change. America, like many other countries is lucky enough to have a progressive elite with enough power to guide the country out of total damnation. Actually, come to think of it, this is true to many developed and developing nations in the world.

Superstition. “If you believe, it will come true.” Adults are the ones who buy those BELIEVE! signs at Christmas. Believe in Santa Claus!

Believe in heaven and hell. Believe in a magical dead man god who will give you everlasting life!

Believe in the magical power of America! Only in America do great things happen.

Believe that you will win the lottery! Then you will take advantage of tax cuts that will let you keep millions and millions of more dollars.

Believe in superheroes. Especially American superheroes

Believe in the oligarchy, for the rich are smart & therefore know how to rule. Because one day you will be an oligarch too (as soon as you win that lottery). The oligarchs will free you to worship Jesus all the time and everywhere. Christian prayers in school, at sporting events, in the Pledge of Allegience, at the beginning of the workday in the workplace. Ten Commandments everywhere. Courthouses, shops, town squares, car dealerships, public transportation. Make every home in America have the Ten Commandments on display & town officials will pop in unexpectedly to make sure its there.

Believe!

[quote]Actually, American culture has always been inherently anti-intellectual.

Yes. You beat me to the punch. This was before my time, but having heard/read about it, it really struck me. I remember learning that Adlai Stevenson was hated for being an "egghead" back in the 1950s. (Egghead back then was the 1950s version of "geek" or "nerd.") Then there was "Egghead Jr." in all those Foghorn Leghorn shorts, as well as the infamous Twilight Zone episode with Henry Bemis (who seemed to be punished for always having his nose in a book). So, even as far back as the 50s, you could see this deep strain of anti-intellectualism running deep in American culture.

[quote]I don't want to sound mean but Americans were never smart to begin with.

Uh huh. The country that was responsible for so many technological advances and artistic, cultural and musical movements 20th century was "never smart." LOL.

When the US education system stopped demanding and started coddling and appeasing.

megalopolis....big companys buying oother big ones....big $ rules the world, put Kav in, elected Frump, behind 911, promotes global warming, etc

its a fukin mess

The most marked illustration I've noticed (I'm 68) in the dumbing down of the US is a lot of the crap on TV and other entertainment media. Horrible sitcoms with bratty kids, smart mouthed people constantly insulting each other, and one liners going for tawdry jokes instead of meaningful conversation. Also, violence in video games other popular entertainment.

Also, I believe exposing children to the crude side of popular culture too soon has erased the intellectual edge. Witness the Kardashians and their extremely shallow lifestyles. It's all about make up and clothes and kids born out of wedlock. Don't get me wrong, I'm not for stigmatizing unwed parenthood but it's depicted so casually on TV with shows like Teen Mom. My nieces and nephews were seeing really mature movies at a young age, they lost their innocence very young.

All that said, I don't think most Americans are stupid. Mostly, they are distracted by multitudes of shiny objects to such a degree that we've forgotten that democracy isn't a given, it's something we must actively participate in and protect before it's gone.

With people like the deplorables and other dullards, I think it's a fear of intellectualism because when they are confronted by brilliant minds (like Obama's) they feel dumb so they deride and scorn intelligent people. It makes them feel better about their empty lives. Then, as we've seen, they become fodder for manipulation by devious evil people and get duped.

Fox did it. Lobotomkzation of millions of right leaners who have their skull lids raised every morning to be filled with a toxic brew of anger and fear.

You can thank Rupert Murdoch for the situation we are in right now.

Are you not aware R32 that sciences in the US only advanced because of foreigners doing their Phds and research there? Maybe you're one of the dumb Americans still thinking Einstein was American because he moved to the US. You're probably clueless to the fact that NASA was invented to bring Nazi German scientists to the country via CIA's Paper Clip operation, they're the ones responsible for your space program. It's incredible how delusional Americans are. You even owe your music to African slaves, so take a chill pill. Anyone who has ever been to a US research facility at a top university knows at least half of the scientists are foreigners. Your average population is made of dumb and fat idiots that can't even point their own nation on a map and were too stupid to be part of said scientific community.

[quote]so take a chill pill.

At least I've never told anyone to take a "chill pill."

Consumerism and materialism, with their handmaiden, advertising.

Oh, good one, OP. You're presuming that "America" is the name of a country and that its people were smarter in the past. Your own title proves precisely how dumb you really are.

Lowering standards to try to bring the lower classes up. What would have been a D grade in 1965 is now a B.

The post-WW2 factory boom created a huge population of dummies who had umpteen kids, grandkids, great-grandkids, etc. Just weak-minded dummies who can only work in warehouses and other low-paying, menial jobs now.

The posts demonstrate we have indeed dumbed down.

Active learning pedagogy has created a generation of entitled semiliterate cunts.

America is an ugly country full of ugly people. Even the physical landscape here is charmless and devoid of real beauty. We’re the worst people the world has to offer. A cancer that could be cut out of the globe and hurled into space for the betterment of humankind. If only it were possible to make this nation and its his disappear entirely.

"Reality" TV.

God, it's so terrible, so fake, so dull, so stupid. ALL of it. It rots the brain.

ESPECIALLY that Kardashian shit. And stupid shit like Big Brother and Survivor, and all that crap. The Bachelor. Ugh.

R45 either has never been to and traveled around America, or is an American who has never left her town.

Russia is the future of America. I mean, it will become like Russia. A large racist, former superpower run by a dictator who gets a kickback from the looting by fellow oligarchs.

Too large to ignore, too crude to admire or emulate.

The dumbing down of America was first wholeheartedly embraced by Urban Culture. Education was rejected as ' acting white '..pop culture became progressively violent. Music became auto-tuned Rap that has been now reduced to the same three cords..the same beat and the same Rap just repackaged over and over and over. TV shows star Trash masquerading as ' Divas ' and ' Players ' driving rented Bentley and talking about 'dropping their next single "!. Ostentatiouness and Bougie behavior is considered a ' lifestyle '....and Education is never mentioned.

First and foremost education, then bad cultural values and religion. If people were smarter they wouldn't watch Fox in the first place, wouldn't support Trump or believe some weirdo religious crap.

Country music and Nascar.

you don't remember people being like this because before the internet you weren't exposed to all these people. The one thing I learned from having the internet is how many dumb and racist people there are. I had no idea of the extent of it. We also didn't have as large a population as we have now and since we have done nothing to improve education, more dumb people.

The other thing about the internet is that before, if we had problems or ideas we had to research them. We had to think about them and we had to problem solve. Young people don't do that, they look for all the answers on the internet. They end up believing what they see and hear without any further investigation simply because they don't see a need to look any further.

You guys aren't listening. It is shopping I tell you.

Fluoride. Its accumulative by generation too so each new generation is becoming more brain damaged.

Fox certainly contributes to dumb, clueless and racists, but it's just feeding a need that was already there. I think people have always been like this - I think Fox just tells them "you're right - your life is worse because of immigration, gays, uppity women, (insert grievance here).

This is nothing new OP. I hate to break it to you, but much of the rest of the world have always considered Americans to be lacking grey matter.

Well, I live in London England and the dumbing down has happened here too - BIG TIME.

Actually, I think a lot of you know this - you read our papers online.

I was watching an old VHS recently - something I recorded years ago off the TV.

They gave a list of what was scheduled on TV later on that evening - a documentary, an original one-off play by a top playwright with a top-notch cast, followed by some superb French film. I could have cried.

America does not pay people commensurate to their intelligence. In fact, America does not want or need smart people for most jobs. Their is no pay reward for being smart. It's all reserved for dumb elites and unrestrained nepotism.

R7 is right. Then Fox and other right-wing media organized the everyday stupid people into a large voting bloc. The Repugs are now very deliberately catering to the stupid, and looks like they're loving every minute of it.

[quote]conservative sexual outrage politics became an excuse to talk about and fondle 'offensive' porn and pass it off as campaign materials.

A few years ago on TCM they showed a 1950s government sponsored short subject on the dangers of gay magazines, exposing muscle magazines as being basically wank material. The short was obviously meant to titillate despite the cautionary tone.

I was really taken aback when it segued into ch*ld p*rn of the "little boys in swimsuits" variety and showed examples.

That was a short subject made by some pretty sick people who were only pretending to be offended, and whose audience was probably the same.

[quote]You even owe your music to African slaves, so take a chill pill.

The entire country is made up of immigrants, genius. Not for any good reason, mind you Europeans wiped out the indigenous peoples and then enslaved Africans.

Still, it's ridiculous to say the dumb people in the US are non-immigrants while the smart ones are immigrants. We're ALL immigrants, dumb and intelligent alike.

Unless you're being racist and saying any American with Native, non-immigrant blood is stupid, in which case fuck off. Since you so strongly praised Nazi scientists as being superior to Americans in your post, I'm thinking you may just deserve a hearty "fuck you" anyway.

Leave it to a racist dipshit like r49 to say that rap music is "now just the same three chords." People have been saying that exact thing about rock music since the 1950s. Literally the same complaint about three chords.

We're just mentally and physically lazy and immature.

Rap music certainly didn't help gays and women. Most of it misogyny, homophobia and a stupid macho culture all (w)rapped up in low brow artistic trash.

Black music used to be Aretha, Coltraine, Whitney and Duke Ellington, now it's Cardi B and some criminal asshole who goes to jail for murder.

There hasn't been any decent pop music for over a decade. It's all dreck now.

Traditionally, people who worked in the media were smarter than average (at a minimum writing well required some education and brains).

There were relatively few jobs composing the content of information most people read, and most people who attained such privileged positions took their responsibilities seriously.

The proliferation of information outlets, from cable to social media, has also empowered the dumbing down of content providers. Those with an I.Q. of 90 are now more readily exposed to, and more likely to be in thrall of, those with an I.Q. of 98.

The hoi polloi can’t distinguish among the quality of sources, and accepts appealing, demented gutter trash talk as the truth.

Gay for pay porn threads

Gay men asking if there are any gay men gay porn

Things like that have dumbed down gay men for sure.

Thank you, R35.

Lots of great points on this thread. But I do believe the creation of TV (aka The Idiot Box) and its ability to brainwash the masses into buying into crap beliefs and crass consumerism was the beginning of the end for our culture.

Social media just accelerated the dumbing down process. The Kardashians are the living embodiment of the inevitable result.

unsmart phones. the electronic teat.

This is the culmination of 40-50 years of work.

Conservatives have been pissed for a long time. They got very angry that they had to give an inch to black people after civil rights.

The 70s were all about the Moral Majority moving closer to politicians and also pushing to infiltrate our schools. You'd think with battles against school prayer, etc. that smart secularism was winning, but conservatives have flexed a huge influence over textbooks. Civics classes are all but nonexistent now.

But yes, the 25 year 24 hour news cycle, and the inability for 90+ percent of Americans to discern between a fact and an opinion, has been the death knell. Social media is just a reinforcement of same.

[quote] But yes, the 25 year 24 hour news cycle

I should say, this specifically speaks re Fox News (I know CNN has been around for longer)

Rupert Murdoch has certainly played his part with the inflammatory and deceitful Fox News.

Not just dumb but mean. Americans are a mean-spirited lot. Where did that originate?

[quote]Leave it to a racist dipshit like [R49] to say that rap music is "now just the same three chords." People have been saying that exact thing about rock music since the 1950s. Literally the same complaint about three chords.

"dipshit - what the fuck does that mean?

and "fucktard"?

even the insults have dumbed down.

Anyone who defends rap and compares it to classic rock and pop and is a dipshit fucktard cloth-eared fucktard dipshit moron. Eat shit asshole.

So funny. I was in the bank in London and this perfectly respectable looking American couple, probably in their 60s, maybe 70s pushed in front so I told them to wait their turn & she said to her husband "He's a fuckin' asshole!" So I said "Are you from New York?" and they were.

R12 I know it’s been a few hours, but could you post that if you’re still hanging around? I’d be very interested.

Republicans - they don't believe in facts and science.

Who/whatever is responsible for the absence of brain matter in the Americans, that absence has indeed been perfectly illustrated by the posters to this thread.

R76 RIGHT! Only G-d, Jeebus, and money.

The Kardashians

Oh, it started WAY before the Kardashians.

It did start with Reagan and his love greed hate the poor mantra. It was also Reagan bringing the religious right into politics and handing them the keys to the castle. That religious right started the mantra that education and science and facts was a bad thing. These things gave people what was easy for human nature to cling to and cast away what was harder. It started the end of curiosity and a search for truth in people. Reagan also made it okay to be a racist out in public again. This was the beginning of what we have today.

Then reality TV and the 24/7 news cycle and most especially Fox were major contributors to the dumbing down of Americans. But without what Reagan began where we are today could not have happened.

I blame Secret Lesbians!

The Kardashians are a symptom of the problem, not the origin. The premiere of Keeping Up With the Kardashians was in October 2007. Anyone who believes that is the cause of the dumbing down of America is, well, stupid.

The best parts of the American education system used to teach students to think - not to regurgitate the answers - but, at least for some, to think about the questions. That's gone.

Likewise how it's paid for. The US has long financed K-12 education at the local level, meaning rich cities and towns had better school systems than those in poorer, usually rural areas. Even before Reagan, the Nixon administration changed the Federal funding mechanism for education (which funding had increased exponentially in the 1950's, first to accommodate the sheer number of baby-boomers and then to emphasize science education in response to Sputnik) from ever-increasing appropriations to block grants to the states which 1: because they're level-funded decrease in value with inflation, and 2: are spent at the discretion of the state. I'm oversimplifying, but if state X has a budget shortfall because the roads are falling apart? Spend the kid's money....

There are plenty of other reasons: anti-intellectualism, the 20th century's unionized manufacturing economy (who needs a fancy education when a high-school dropout can get a well-paying job?), and segregation/racism to name just a few. But as in most things, it comes down to money and the taps got turned off in the late 1960's.

Or American R83! Ha ha! One thing I have sadly learnt is the majority of Americans (unless scholarly types,members of academia, or the like) have a deep ingrained disdain for intellectuals and true thinkers. They are intimidated by them on the job in most places, and even avoid hiring those smarter than themselves, even if it benefits the organisation, or team. Europeans and British do not behave in such insecure ways. There may exist some competition or insecurity, but if they sense a candidate may be overqualified, they usually get the position. Americans are distrustful of those they perceive to be better educated, more well-read, or smarter. They like to protect the status quo of "just bright enough" to get the job done. This is awfully apparent in your government too.

"Anti-intellectualism in American Life" is a book by Richard Hofstadter published in 1963 that won the 1964 Pulitzer Prize for General Non-Fiction. In this book, Hofstadter set out to trace the social movements that altered the role of intellect in American society.

What [30] said. Lack of critical thinking skills coupled with a preference for belief over facts. It's easier to "believe" than to try to figure something out. Thinking with your "gut" rather than with your head. But why do something hard when something easy gets you by?

This is also evidenced by the jeering mindset so many Americans have toward young people who wish to study Philosophy, History, or French...any liberal arts for that matter. It would seem the only reason one ought to go to University is for "job-training" to make money. Very intellectual Americans I know have been ridiculed for attending small liberal arts colleges. It is unthinkable to me to put someone else down for their intellectual curiousity. Even if one doesn't share such a thirst, it ought to be respected nonetheless.

Yes, the right is full of idiots; but let's not pretend the left is immune:

[quote]Since you so strongly praised Nazi scientists as being superior to Americans in your post, I'm thinking you may just deserve a hearty "fuck you" anyway.

Only a dumb American such as yourself R61 would find praise in a cold and objective statement that Nazi Germans were responsible for the Space program, which was used to prove a point that the greatest scientific achievements you have were made by foreigners who were not a byproduct of your shitty school system and were brought in because your average citizen is too stupid to be part of that scientific community. That hasn't changed, and the bright scientists that still make up most of the technology your dumb self is so proud of, are still byproducts of their own countries, because average joes such as yourself who can't even interpret a simple post are the vast majority.

[quote]That hasn't changed, and the bright scientists that still make up most of the technology

Oh, dear.

See, R91 is what dumb Americans do. When they can't criticize the message because they are too stupid to admit their own shortcomings, they attack the grammar or syntax of a polyglot foreigner speaking their language. The irony here is that he most likely can't even speak his own language well enough if compared to his fellow natives, let alone learn a foreign language. That's why foreigners will remain filling the seats of higher education.

I'm an American who knows German and a good bit of written Chinese and Italian, r92, so kindly fuck off with your generalizations.

F&Fed.

Sure you do R91 / R93, and I bet your grammar and syntax is flawless in all of them. Only insecure idiots correct grammar of foreigners speaking their language. Dumb idiots like you. Auf Wiedersehen!

R64, seriously, you're just ignorant of the truth behind popular music.

White rockers and their management were neck deep in the mob by the late 1950s. Swing, jazz and R&B musicians were the same from Prohibition on, both black and white, including the Rat Pack and Steve & Edie and all sorts of "classy" white folks.

And white rappers aren't any less homophobic than black ones.

R49 sounds like it was written by Fox News. “The dumbing down of America was first wholeheartedly embraced by Urban Culture. Education was rejected as ' acting white '..pop culture became progressively violent. ”

It’s all those dumb black people damn it!

America peaked in high school (post-WWII) and all attempts are relive that era. This orientation by definition forces regression.

Americans have always been ignorant and stupid.

[quote]Anyone who defends rap and compares it to classic rock and pop and is a dipshit fucktard cloth-eared fucktard dipshit moron. Eat shit asshole.

Thanks for stopping by, Senator Graham.

By the way, the etymology of "dipshit" goes back to the 1950s at least, possibly as far back as the 1920s when "dipstick" came to mean "idiot," and is not, as you claim, a new and "dumbed down" profanity.

Very excited to hear your latest volley in your quest to prove that you're the smartest guy in the room.

R92 speaks truth and is not merely generalising. The truth seems to hurt so many insecure people on this thread. Another great book on this sad phenomenon, (in addition to the work by Hoffstadter) is The Closing of The American Mind, by Allen Bloom. Though written by an exceptional (albeit conservative) American, the book was poorly received due the denial and inordinate pride of most Americans. R93 Good on you for studying and speaking more than English. You know you are not typical though for an American.

[quote] "dipshit - what the fuck does that mean

And someone thinks there are no paid foreign trolls posting here

My German immigrant boss used “dipshit” in the 1960s. How could she know the word and an American not know it?

The Polish here are fond of the term too R102.

People who use these threads to get out their racist bullshit are the worst. I love how 12% of the population is made the scapegoat even for this.

[quote]Anyone who defends rap and compares it to classic rock and pop and is a dipshit fucktard cloth-eared fucktard dipshit moron. Eat shit asshole.

And someone clearly just installed wifi at the old folks home. You sound like a moron. Just shut up.

I love you r92. Lets fuck.

[quote][R92] speaks truth and is not merely generalising. The truth seems to hurt so many insecure people on this thread.

The guy who has spent more than 24 hours repeatedly posting "you Americans are all stupid" is NOT generalizing?

It's always fascinating to see the kind of person who attempts to position themselves as the smartest and brightest on a thread like this. Always lots of ad hominem, usually of the "you're stupid and if you disagree with my poorly thought-out claims that just proves you're stupid" variety.

[90]- Castigates our "shitty school system", yet all of our colleges and universities are overflowing with students from Asia, Europe and everywhere else. Women from China coming here to give birth (anchor babies) so that their children have a better chance of gaining entrance to an American university.

Actually I blame our education system, I am shocked at the stupidity of some people with high school and some college diplomas. Then there is the large drop out rate from high schools that never even gets a high school diploma. This has been going on for years and many high school classes teach to the lowest denominator. They don't really challenge students to think, they are more worried about meeting the minimum standards set by states. However the ultimate blame goes to parents who don't demand more from the schools and their children.

I would have hated when I was a kid it but you should not be able to drive until you get a high school diploma or turn twenty one and not be able to get a job until you turn eighteen or have a high school diploma and standards for getting a diploma need to be raised.

Not all college degrees are created equal, r108. Compare someone with a bachelors in physics or philosophy and someone with a bachelors in elementary ed -- no comparison.

Really R106 you have indeed seriously tracked him only posting such comments the past twenty-four hours? I took his remarks to be honest, and apropos the subject of this very thread. I too find the relentless petty editing of posts here tiresome, and in a way, their very own sort of ad hominem attack. This is especially true when we do in fact state we speak more than one language in our defence.

Moreover R106 I should like to add that I specifically meant he was not generalising when it comes to speaking a second or third language, and the filling of tech and medical positions here in the States.

R107 "this" is how you quote another poster (Type a capital R and the number of the reply) and the education system in the US is great for anyone motivated enough to want to learn. You can really excel here in the US, the problem is no one is motivating too many of the American students, they are more interested in the Greek system, the football team, or partying.

R109 I am not quite sure why you directed your post towards me, nothing in my post at R108 disagrees with your post.

[quote]And someone clearly just installed wifi at the old folks home. You sound like a moron. Just shut up.

Oh, so young and groovy - do you know how OLD rap is at this point, dipshit?

[quote]you have indeed seriously tracked him only posting such comments the past twenty-four hours?

I only stumbled across it because I went out to the ignored tab for an unrelated reason.

[quote]This is especially true when we do in fact state we speak more than one language in our defence.

Speaking of the ignored tab, that's how I discovered that you were out on the recent Madonna thread using the word "insouciance" incorrectly, and tried to cover for it by insisting you were fluent in three languages. Thanks for bringing your insecurities over to this thread, too.

R114 I did not use the term incorrectly.

Nobody's nationality grants entitlement to smug condescension, vitriolic invective, presumption of omniscience, and a complete lack of diplomacy. Granted, Trump and his ilk are guilty of these same abhorrent traits, but many of us Americans find the anti-intellectual streak of propaganda in our midst to be just as repulsive.

Anyone who posts comments categorizing an entire nation's citizens into a single level of intelligence exhibits profound stupidity, willful ignorance, and the disposition of a troll.

Even so, it's depressing how many stupid people I find among me even in this deep blue state of California. Many of my friends have left this country in despair over the gathering storm. I hope that they're wrong and that our setbacks aren't insurmountable, but it does feel increasingly difficult to swim against the current. Before all is lost, we need to borrow a book's worth of pages from countries with more rigorous educational, environmental, and social programs. I hope it's not already too late.

The link, however, refutes that Americans are entirely clueless and derivative, though that opinion is specious anyway in that few nations are comprised exclusively of citizens who didn't originate from elsewhere, or whose ancestors were all native to the country as well.

R114 I am not American, and use the term as the French do. Americans may have other connotations, but the thread about her looks in the featured picture, as well as the overall agreed opinion throughout the thread was that she doesn't try to look pulled-together, and perhaps ought to have a stylist. I said her insouciance at sixty was unattractive. Meaning she is carelessly apathetic... or nonchalant regarding her appearance despite her wealth and position. Perhaps as a faux punk rock seeming young gal, people find that look attractive for youth. Her careless disregard is insouciant. How do you use this word?

WADR R114 you are wrong, and a quintessential illustration of Grand American Hubris. Your words are not only smug, but you really bought into the brainwashing of "American Exceptionalism".

Thank you, r116.

It seems many lacking objectivity here are bothered in part by the very thread itself, rather than the remarks made by certain posters.

[Bold] WHAT R11 SAID !!!!!!!!!

Wherever did R114 skip off to? I'm eagerly awaiting your rebuttal as well as your definition! You also mischaracterise the context of my stating I speak French. I was accused by an insecure poster (probably an American) of using my Thesaurus to impress. I plainly stated that I do not own one, but speak French. Quite different to what you suggest transpired in the Madonna thread really. This is all part of the insecurity and intimidation I had expressed in R85 and R88.

A lot of the posters on this thread sound as if they're insufferable in real life.

I agree R123.

[quote]Maybe you're one of the dumb Americans still thinking Einstein was American because he moved to the US.

BLOCKED, FF'ED.

The Wright Brothers, Thomas Edison, Henry Ford, Eli Whitney, medical pioneers like Jonas Salk, architectural pioneers (who invented skyscrapers) and all of the pioneers of audio, television and digital technology were 100% AMERICAN-born.

Okay, you Boris piece of shit? I'll be the first to criticize American culture today for its trash culture and garbage politics, but you're 100% full of shit when you claim its achievements were only because of immigrants. Immigrants certainly contributed, but so did Americans.

So, like I said, BLOCKED, FF'ED. You're obviously a Boris offended at this idea of giving Americans credit for anything; it's why you went off half-cocked. Only Borises would get this upset at someone actually giving Americans credit for something.

He did not track me down because I post under a dynamic VPN for security reasons and every post will show up with a different IP but he could be so dense that he believes every poster calling Americans dumb are the same person, he must not travel very often if he's that dim, Americans are by far the most hated nationality in the world, I've been called stupid American because I speak with an American accent. Just so we're clear I made a single comment, the one referencing Nazis on NASA and its subsequent responses. He must be a conspiracy nut on top of being stupid.

The republican party

Fox news

Rupert Murdoch

Paris Hilton and Kim Kardashian

The Kardashian/Jenner family

Donald Trump

Reality tv

Social media

Ronald Reagan

Roger Ailes

William F Buckley

Woodrow Wilson

Trash culture

Greed/Inequality/Racism which will definitely be the downfall of America if it's not corrected soon.

And so much other bull shit.

Wow, looks like a bunch of Borises and racist Alt Right trash discovered this thread. What could've been an interesting discussion about a current problem and an attempt at coming up with solutions has been derailed, so mission accomplished, I guess.

There once was a time when it was conservatives blaming liberals for dumbing down America

Yes, I already mentioned the Book R129. I blame everyone equally. I do not see it as a left or right issue.

Haven't American conservatives always blamed liberals for everything, R129?

R44 My thoughts exactly! Public education powers have decided it is more important to entertain students than to educate them.

Contemporary pedagogy is shite.

Me thinks believing a comment you dislike to be a Russian troll is yet another example of American stupidity. How dumb can you be to believe there are people spending money so that someone will troll a nobody on a forum no one reads? I seriously doubt R91 speaks German, he might "know" a couple words because if he spoke German he would know how much Germans belittle Americans on TV all the time, mocking your stupidity. It stood out to me while watching German TV how political pundits and politicians would constantly remark that Germany will never be another US, they show considerable disdain for America in a very ironic and disparaging way, specially on televised political kabarett shows.

R133, you are exhausting.

Yes of course, all the ex-pats and foreign born posters are all insufferable, tedious, and now exhausting because we weighed in with the truth. We did not come with agendas, just weighed in on the thread. Then we were accused of things not true. Much cognitive dissonance here on this thread.

R74 I met the same type in Paris. I think these were from Connecticunt if memory serves well. Absolute assholes. Entirely convinced of their God-given right to be served everything on a platter, no matter how little they understood about where they were (the Invalides, in this case).

Yes, Americans certainly are the only nationality known for bad behavior abroad.

The rise of journalism schools and all the "fair and balanced" nonsense that goes with it.

Journalism used to be a refuge for alcoholics, degenerates, and misfits, and then all the kids who watched All the President's Men and couldn't get into law school decided to become journalists, and it all went to Hell.

I have no idea what you're talking about, OP.... and such as... what's a map?

R125 is American Exceptionalism going awry. Some Americans, like many Russians I might add, wear their patriotism on their sleeve to the point of mental illness as we can see here. As a matter of fact it's no surprise the cold war happened between these 2 nations, known for self-aggrandizement and fabrications to suit their power trip. It reminds me of Russian academic Anatoly Fomenko who devised a theory posing that history is a fabrication and all and every accomplishment in modern history was actually made by Russia and during the middle ages, including the Roman Empire, Greek philosophy and Egyptian civilization. Now we have the so-called Russian troll conspiracy theory to add to that.

We're gonna look back at this time and age with sheer embarrassment.

There used to be a stereotype, in the movies anyway, of the Soviets being convinced that their country was the absolutely best, indeed the only correct prototype for the world, and there was a kind of smugness involved that you saw then in Americans as well. But it's funny that even thought the Soviets are gone, the Americans are WORSE than they used to be. Maybe not having a more understandable "villain" in the world, they're just adrift - not knowing any other way to be except the white hat cowboy swaggering around, looking for the black hat cowboy to have a shootout with at high noon.

A stupid way to internalize your country, but I think there's a least a little smug superhero inside many Americans, bolstered by their precious Jesus (whose words they never remember - but they DO remember the bit about God intended this country for them and now they are the chosen people, saving Christmas and heterosexuality and the proper place of women and all that folderal triumphalist religion that most Americans have at least some ingrained belief in)

I'm pretty sure we lost the Cold War and are only now really waking up to how much of a regime change there was.

Wal-Mart

[quote]But it's funny that even thought the Soviets are gone, the Americans are WORSE than they used to be.

Another Boris weighs in. These stupid Borises just can't help themselves, can they?

I'm surprised that in all this, no one talked about the massive drug crisis that our country's been drowning in since the 1960s. Remember, the 1960s was when people were actually advocating drug use as a lifestyle and path to enlightenment and was done recreationally. Rampant drug usage must have scrambled a lot of minds at worst, or at least screwed up people's priorities.

One of the funnest and most insightful episodes ever was the one from Taxi that showed that before he became a rambling, incoherent moron, he was an intellectual. Yeah, it's a farce but is it really that far removed from reality when so millions of people started treating drugs as harmless fun?

It is evident from this thread that the Americans here are not very self aware or self critical.

I eat piles and piles AND PILES of shit!

I was watching Stephen Colbert’s show on YouTube & he was interviewing Candace Bergman. On the suggested video list to the right was Candace & Edgar Bergman on What’s My Line. It reminded me of how Americans always signed the chalkboard in Palmer method when they were on What’s My Line. Now, people don’t even know what the Palmer method is. I wonder why we abandoned a perfectly good method for teaching handwriting. Is it because the dumb kids couldn’t get it right?

R148 striking a rich note of irony on a thread about intelligence - managing to misspell both CANDICE and BERGEN (twice).

[quote]R58: Their is no pay reward for being smart.

Jesus wept.

[quote][R148] striking a rich note of irony on a thread about intelligence - managing to misspell both CANDICE and BERGEN (twice).

I'm not R149 but you're a shining example of one of the reasons why American culture has been dumbed down. Because of our obsession with game shows and crap like Trivia Pursuit, Americans have redefined "intelligence" as being in the know about inane pop cultural bullshit and factoids but not knowing anything important. They've become like Tony Manero from Saturday Night Fever. Remember how dumb he was? He didn't know much of anything. Yet he thought he was smart because he had remembered some meaningless factoids about the Verrazano Bridge (how tall it was, how many cars drive across it every day, etc.).

Same thing here. Edgar Bergen is an obscure figure from another period and Candice Bergen is a washed up TV actress. Neither made much of a major impact on American culture. But you're using someone's misspelling of their names as a measure of someone's intelligence. Ironically, you did that most likely not knowing what the Palmer method was, which he did know.

BTW, the reference to Saturday Night Fever reminds me of another contributing factor to America's dumbing down: rote memorization of facts.

1. huge daycare centers 2. mediocre public education 3. lack of meaningful international travel 4. shitty role models 5. poor diet and minimal exercise

So lots of excuses, no reasonable life goals (short term or long), and inability to engage in independent critical thinking.

[quote]It reminded me of how Americans always signed the chalkboard in Palmer method when they were on What’s My Line. Now, people don’t even know what the Palmer method is. I wonder why we abandoned a perfectly good method for teaching handwriting. Is it because the dumb kids couldn’t get it right?

That might be the most insane thing I've ever read. A bunch of you are sound like a gaggle of MAGA lunatics longing for some other time that never really existed. Kids not learning cursive is not signaling the downfall of society. "Teaching to the test" is the reason education is in the toilet.

What I've really read on this thread is a bunch people wanting to turn back the clock to some time when they thought the world was better. Let's be honest, the American people have always been stupid but social media has allowed all of those idiots to band together and poison larger swaths of country. But in all honesty I would rather be able to have discussions likes this on message boards and on social media, than the alternative.

Brain-dead music like this contributed to the downfall of America. Nice cumshot though

R54 is a fucking moron

R54 is far from being a moron. The correlation of fluoride and the decrease in IQ and cognitive development has been throughly researched and it is the main reason several developed nations don't fluoride their water, like Belgium, Austria, Finland, Sweden, Norway, France, Denmark. In Germany fluoride in water is forbidden by law. As a matter of fact I think less than 5% of European nations allow it. America is by far the country with the largest percentage of tap water with fluoride in the world. Maybe you R155 are the dumb American here. No surprise here.

R54 Is completely correct. Teachers I know at better private schools, Montessori, and the like are aware of it and tell the parents. The studies have been well known for quite awhile.

The majority of Americans have always been woefully ignorant. Now by hitting the enter key they instantly confirm their idiocy.

Filters do not remove Fluoride either. Reverse osmosis or bottled water is the way to go. Natural sources may contain trace amounts of naturally occurring fluoride, but it is a different type, and not as bad apparently.

I love how confident and belligerent many Americans can be when they are dead wrong, and lack the facts. It is almost comical at times.

[quote] A bunch of you are sound like a gaggle of MAGA lunatics longing for some other time that never really existed.

You're such a dummy.

For years, I used to do administrative work that involved checking signatures. Years ago, I worked in HR for the Census Bureau. Part of our job was to go over job applications and verify signatures. For the first time that I've ever worked in administration, a significant number of "signatures" were just a straight line because the applicants had no idea how to sign their name . These were people who wanted to work in a field that requires attention to detail (data entry, cross referencing, filing, making notations, keeping detailed logs, etc.).

If you think people like that were mentally capable of working in a detail-oriented job, you're even dumber than you sound.

I don't believe one single factor is responsible for the dumbing down of the American people.

I found this yesterday. Americans love to boast about their patriotism and love of the Constitution; they should (but likely don't) understand that an election is a renewal contract or a hiring process for their representatives, that they are the employers of their legislators. Voting is one of the most powerful things Americans can do to protect their democracy. Were most of the 102 million who chose not to vote in November 2016 removed from the voter rolls or disenfranchised by oppressive voter ID laws, or are most of the 102 million eligible voters lazy, confused or ignorant?

Frank Zappa used to have voter registration booths/tables at his gigs. Tell me what American musicians on tour do that post-2016.

Love me some Zappa!

I blame Streisand...

Gravity terracota/ceramic filters with a simple coloidal silver and activated charcoal cartridges remove most fluoride and chlorine turning the water into high PH tasty alkaline water. They're hugely popular in Latin America and South East Asia. They cost about $30 bucks in America, you can by on Amazon.

Jim James (of My Morning Jacket) has a couple new solo albums out, and his entire promotional cycle has been spent encouraging people to get registered and vote.

I don’t think rap or hip-hop music is the reason so many young people are stupid now, but I think it’s incredibly stupid music, with shallow, offensive, egomaniacal lyrics, and I have no idea why it’s so incredibly popular now. Anyone have any idea? It’s bizarre to me that the most popular form of music is no longer guitar-based, but rather based around programmed beats.

If Frank Zappa could come back from the dead and see the state of things he’d say - see, I tried to warn you.

He might even have to turn to drugs and alcohol living now R167!

Kardashian

Connecticut initiated the state lottery about 1970 to fund education. About 1990, it authorized two of the most successful casinos in the country, taking a cut of the slot machines, to fund education. Why don’t they have the best schools in the country by now? Did the state revoke all the original funding?

I might add, that until about 1990, CT didn't have an income tax, either, just a 7.5% state sales tax Now it’s 6% income, plus 6.35% sales. And they have a budget deficit.

Doesn't the fluoride make you gay.

Is that what happened?

A school nearby had to decide between hiring a new teacher or buying a washing machine and dryer so the kids coming to school could have their filthy clothes cleaned. This is where we are.

Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson, and Alex Jones must share SOME of the blame.

In a big way, Christianity, and a lack of science.

That’s redundant, R175.

No not teally R176, as an ex-pat living here and knowing plenty of teachers, and having friends with children there is an utter lack of sciences in the curriculum, and only recently have young girls and young women have encouraged to go into these fields.

The guy who started the "Bruce Springsteen's sad last days" thread is the dumbest Datalounger.

Poor education and poor parenting. Schools don't build on the IQ people are born with. In critical moments, like elementary school. Also higher education was really been DUMBED down except in STEM. "College educated" heterosexuals think they are fine, smart, but they aren't, and they bring up dumb kids. Lots of teachers are idiots with lowish IQ and then the schools turn them into cynical robots.

Back in the olden days (60's, 70's) a woman teacher was usually something, certainly after elementary school. They had been to good schools and even grad schools in their subjects - not just education programs. They knew English literature. Or art, or whatever. I'm talking about public schools. We had music teachers who loved music and knew a lot about it and got all kids reading music and playing instruments and singing. Multiply this across several disciplines. Kids brains are underdeveloped. If they can't read music, do maths in their heads, manually make things that are aesthetically or structurally sound, can't adjust their language register and behavior, can't perform athletically on teams, etc etc etc the brain has been retarded and the person's basic 80-100 IQ isn't going to feel like enough to be the bedrock of society.

Propaganda that pushes right wing hatred and racism, people like Limbaugh, Trump and many others.

People are functionally illiterate and innumerate. You have to practice reading and adding to be any good. Children have to be safe, fed, bathed, loved in order to learn.

Adults need to be honest about their own lack of skills.

American culture has a lot going for it. But, in truth, we value competition, greed, dishonesty, and self preservation. These values are counterproductive to learning.

Who's to blame? people who can't do math and laugh at those who can. People who don't read and laugh at those who do. People who don't know Kendrick Lamar won a Pulitzer.

It is a country where Joel Osteen is thought by millions to be the greatest philosopher of our time

Believe it or not, r183, I have a gay male friend in his 50s who adores, cherishes, and reveres Joel Osteen. His other addiction is grindr (or whatever the grindr of the moment is). Talk about a contradiction.

Smartphones has become the latest opiate of the people.

^ have

They’ve always been pretty dumb. Sport before school. The fact just went viral on social.

Sidebar: MSNBC they were talking to college students in Orange County California. Only 1 out of about 50 were registered to vote. Wow.

Tell us more, r184

Never mind, r184 -- I read your post quickly and thought you meant Joel Olsteen was the one with the Grindr addiction.

My bad!

[quote]It is a country where Joel Osteen is thought by millions to be the greatest philosopher of our time

FFS...

I am not a religious person by any stretch of the imagination but by the same token, I'm sick and tired of people not knowing who the enemy is and picking the easiest targets.

Joel Osteen is extremely popular because he's from the Robert Schuller tradition of evangelism, which mixes Norman Vincent Peale/power of positive thing with religion. So much of his stuff is based on pop psychology that it's very obvious that he was a "Life Coach/Self Help Guru" in a past life (or was heavily influenced by self help and New Age).

Anyway, if you've ever heard one of this broadcasts, it becomes very obvious what his appeal is. He's like a surrogate Mike Brady/Ward Cleaver giving lectures to people about every day problems like debt or annoying bosses or coming across rude people. I know it sounds kind of stupid and pathetic for grown adults to need someone like him to go, "Okay, when life gives you lemons, make lemonade," but there's such a lack of sympathy and lending a compassionate ear to everyday problems in American culture that he fills a void. That's why he's popular. He tells people, "Don't let your jerk boss get you down," or "Stop comparing yourself to others all the time ," etc.

It's not a dumbing down if people want to hear stuff like this or use someone like him as some kind of guide. If Osteen is a symbol of America's dumbing down, it's in that Americans have become so dysfunctional in terms of compassion (which is a type of emotional intelligence) that they need someone like him to give it to them because there are so few people around that can do it.

Thank you, r191. Posts like yours are why I read the DL.

Why America Has Stayed a Backwards Society

Thanks for the rambling screed, R193. This appears to be what passes for scholarship these days.

Nah, the dumbing down phrase was used at least as early as the early 1990s.

[quote]But everything changed in the 80s when the WWII veterans started retiring or dying.

What you say is true but the "changing" began to happen much earlier, when the Red Scare "purged" a lot of left-leaning directors, writers and actors out of the entertainment industry. The retiring and dying was the nail in the coffin.

"I just don't remember people being this stupid before Cable News and Facebook."

You mean in the good old days when people didn't want to share the same water fountain as a black person? The average IQ has gone up, by the way.

Thanks for explaining his appeal r191. I just sent Joel $100.

People were just as stupid, but you didn’t hear from them.

The wave of right wing conservatism is global, from Europe to the Americas, we have been dealing with the reality no country truly believes or understands democracy. A small elite of progressive intellectuals have been responsible for guiding most of civilization and the anti intellectualism discussed upthread practically won over them. It's sad and dark times.

I'm only hopeful because in all the countries I've been following this phenomena, it's the old generation, 40-60 year olds who are supporting conservatism, the younger generations are either true progressives or are just disappointed by capitalism or representation in politics.