What was up with Tommy’s anger towards Emma?

Who, who, and who?

R1 Terms of Endearment

He knew he'd be seeing more of Aurora, with Mommy dead. And resented that.

R3 he was pissed off way before she became sick.

Is Tommy the older one and Flap the younger son?

This thread should be restricted to those that have seen it. On DL should be plenty.

His anger is endearing.

Because he Debra was a raging bitch...

and his whorish mother tore his family apart!

*because he KNEW

This is something I've wondered many times (yes, MARY!). He was openly hostile to her but I believe that he actually loved her a lot more than he loved his father, with whom he had a lot less attachment and whom he despised a little (it was subtle but he had a couple of reactions that betrayed his true feelings towards him), and his anger was the sort of dysfunctional disappointment and frustration that many children feel when their parents prove to be a bit less than superhumanly perfect, plus a need to distance himself from the mother to feel more like a grown-up minding his own business, even if he was hurting inside.

He yelled at her once, "You're driving Daddy away!" He was a confused, hurt child.

In my house the anger came from Mother.

The father obviously kept telling the kid that his mother was making him miserable and destroying the family.

I don't know R13 Flap was an idiot but he never struck me as a shit-stirrer or someone who'd badmouth his wife to save face.

He may have heard or witnessed Emma nagging Flap more offscreen. When you see the older Tommy come down the stairs, he’s already mad at her. But he also didn’t care for Flap as the film went along.

R14 he may not have directly told his son that... but the parents obviously fought. The father probably said as much to his wife and the kid overheard it. Kids always hear every word their parents fight about.

This movie offended my father. He always thought it was ridiculous that a man would give his kids to their grandmother.

Apparently James L. Brooks worried about that plot point. I listened to the commentary track and his assistant tells stories that he'd call her in the middle of the night worrying that they were making a mistake by having Flap give up the kids. They were anxiety ridden that they had screwed that part of the film up. (they were going by the book where Flap gives up the kids but struggling if they should change that.)

"We were never Scouts. My mom was too lazy to check them out."

SLAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Always annoyed me that Emma didn't take the opportunity to tell Flap she too had cheated and let him off the hook a bit. Loved the film but some of it was infuriating. Especially, as mentioned above, Aurora getting another batch of kids to fuck up.

Did anyone see the sequel, Evening Star? I have always intended to watch it but I've heard that it's terrible.

I left well-enough alone, and never saw "Evening Star" or the other McMurtry sequel, "Texasville".

r19 Brooks discusses that in the commentary too. He was troubled by the fact that Flap is made out to be so awful for cheating but Emma does it too and it is treated as ok. He felt that part didn't turn out well either.

R20 it is terrible.

I keep waiting for John Lithgow's new biography. He ended his first one teasing that his next film would prove to be his most popular ever and the most chaotic two weeks he ever experienced on a film. It sounds like he's got dirt.

R22 but Flap 's behavior was worse than Emma's. She conducted her affair discreetly whereas Flap humiliated Emma by carrying on with his whore for all to see. All but Emma.

Tommy saw everything and knew how it was. But in a child’s mind, there is logic: If this, then that.

If only mom got along with dad better, there wouldn’t be this uproar in our lives all the time.

Like they said, he was confused. The idea of losing his mother, who was the only anchor in their lives was distressing. So he lashed out. He didn’t do a lot of talking, so the internalized emotions were skewed. Talking stuff out like worries never happened for the kids in the family.

They didn’t see the actions, the infidelities, but they saw the reactions to it. Something happens, react to it. Lash out. He lived what he was learning in that house.

Huckleberry Fox was such a cutie in 1980s movies. All I know after looking him up is his real first name is George. Anyone know what became of him?

Flap even moved him family so he could be near his mistress.

Tommy was thoroughly damaged and would have grown into a fucked up abusive adult. Maybe he had a small penis.

r27 again in the commentary track..........they talk about him. At the time they did the commentary (I think it was around the late 90s) Fox was in LA trying to continue his acting career as an adult and working sometimes for Brooks and the woman on the track. I think I read up that he later gave up acting and LA and went into another profession.

Jeff Daniels really gave an underrated performance in this movie. It was one of his first feature films, too.

On the commentary track (sorry me again!) Brooks said Daniels had been a finalist to play Garp in The World According to Garp and lost it at the last minute. Then he was up for the lead in another film and lost that at the last minute too. (Anyone know what that film was?) So when he finally got Terms he was very happy to finally get hired. He and MacLaine got along very well supposedly. (they must have been united in their hate for Winger.)

There is a thing on youtube where Shirley MacLaine is talking to some NYC film society. She forgets his name but says Mr. Newsroom, what's his name? Then they tell her and she says he was a wonderful man and actor to work with. (apparently he wasn't turbulently brilliant)

R32 lol I’ve see that interview. Funny she couldn’t remember his name. Considering her memories of making the film are probably the ones she remembers the most out of any film due to her battles with Brooks and Winger. But Shirley is old now too.

He was angry because he knew she was dying and it was easier for him to express anger than sadness.

He has a breakthrough after the hospital scene where MacLaine starts slapping him for saying his mom was too lazy to check scouts out. After she hits him he eventually starts to cry.

R34 he was angry at her before she got sick.

R35 speaking of that DL thread on film cliches...

Did Shirley slap him for real, because it looked like she really belted him.

R38 probably she’s such a cunt.

I’m sure she knew Jeff DANIELS name she just said that to sound cute, or it makes her sound more important if she can’t remember everyone she’s worked with in the soooo many films she has done.

Fucking sour bitch.

Evening Star is only good because of sexy Scott Wolf in a small role. He plays an insecure actor and we see pictures of him almost naked or in whitey tightes. I suspect the director had a thing for him. Hard to believe Scott is 50.

She’s 80. I’m sure she forgot.

Maybe he was angry with her because of misplaced blame. Blame the mom because the dad cheats. (Mom can't keep a man.) Easier to be angry at Mom than at Dad. (Dad might desert you but Mom won't desert you.)

Jeff Daniels is one of the few actors who is genuinely good at both dramatic and comedic roles. He's had more success on tv. I loved when he won the Emmy for The Newsroom over Bryan Cranston, Jon Hamm and Kevin Spacey. Watching everyone seethe was glorious.

He's also a great stage actor.

Tommy=little Charles Grodin

Always found Jeff Daniels bland as shit, very Not a Movie Star, when he was younger. He's another one who got more interesting when he got older ala his work in "The Hours".

Always hated his lipless mouth though. Looked like he could slurp ants right off the sidewalk.

Evening Star plays a bit sitcomy for me. Plus the soap style recasts of Patsy and Rosie didn’t help. I know they needed bigger names since Winger wasn’t there but Miranda Richardson was nothing like Patsy in the first film and a bit annoying.

It wasn't just Flaps cheating. It was the fact that he had this family that he had no interest in just dragging them from place to place. Tommy told Emma that she made Flap leave. That's why he was pissed.

R47 he was pissed the moment you saw the older Tommy on the stairs. When Emma tells him to GO GET DRESSED you knew about the mother son relationship right there. I guess Flap has been fucking around for awhile and spending most of his time between work and his women. Tommy probably blamed Emma I guess for keeping him away from the house when it wasn’t necessarily her fault.

"Ok Tommy. Stand up and follow me. And don't make me hit you on the street".

Remember they wanted Kim Basinger for the original Patsy. The unknown (who stayed unknown) who got it did nothing with the role. It never even made sense as presented.