Yuzuru Hanyu and other figure skating talk part 9

Link to previous thread

Let's start things off on a good note.

^^ Straight Hanyu dressed in a femme costume playing with ribbons.

[quote]My opinion is that Hanyu hasn't figured out what his deal is.

Given that there's no shortage of gay men around him, it'd be odd if he hadn't. Even if he's never spoken about it to any of them and he's focused on his job while spending time with them, there's such a thing as simple awarness of the fact. From Orser to Buttle and Lambiel and Radford to Wilson and Weir. It's not like he has to work with sterotypes. To be honest, I think his acquitance with so many gay men and the fact that he doesn't always go with the current is why we can take his future actions at face value. If he settles down with a girl, it will mean he's straight/bi. If not, then probably not. That photo with his hand on Lambiel's butt though. I swear it looked like he was trying to tell the world something, not just trolling.

JDC, thanks for the info about rich skaters! Mao, Shizuka, Oda ruin my perception that sport stars are rags-too-riches stories.

[quote] think Nathan is pre-med, so even gentleman's Cs will not do. If he continues, I think he's going to change to sociology or psychology or one of the soft sciences.

I wonder if he'd rather quit skating. He got to the other side of the continent when he had even better options closer to home, looked a bit like running away from it all.

This is still one of the funniest pictures from the Olympics. Yuzu delicately wiping his tears after Javier made him cry all the water in his body with his surprise retirement talk and Shoma being Shoma and trying to stay awake.

Here's Yuzu asking Sakurai Sho for a picture.

Idk, I'm fully onboard "Yuzu is gay" train but in this vid he just seemed fanboyish.

He's just very girly and I think he knows the worlds knows so he doesn't try to hide it. He seems very comfortable with that fact.

Thank you for the ribbon photo, amazing stuff!

[quote]amazing stuff!

Simon? Nick?

R4. I like "straight" Hanyu fanning his tears.

R3. Omg I was thinking the same thing with that photo of Hanyu grabbing Lambiel's ass. I swear he must have been trying to say this is me. This is who I am. Now let's see who stays as my fans and who leaves.

Wth is Nam Nguyen's "wedding" joke in the comment section? Did he use auto-comment or what ? He left that comment below others' posts too.

R3 I think you underestimate the power of societal pressure especially in a country like Japan and especially on the recipient of so much public interest who just received the highest government award possible for an athlete and expressed wishes not to put 'shame' on his family name. I think as open as he appears to be, it must be actually pretty tough for him to process all this. So even if he were to settle down with a woman at the end of the day I still wouldn't buy him being straight. As progressive as Japan is becoming it is still a deeply conservative country and I don't blame him if he chooses to please his family who sacrificed so much for him over his own personal happiness.

R10 I think the joke is that Roman's girlfriend made him that banner. Nam is asking to be invited to their wedding. Nothing to do with Hanyu

Well, now that I look at it, I'm not sure Roman's GF made that banner, just that he tagged her in the heart portion of the banner. Who knows, but I don't think Nam is referring to Hanyu.

That's an old joke between Nam, Roman, and Nathan. Back when Nam and Roman were being shipped together they did an Instagram Live and Nathan came on and asked to be invited to their wedding. Then Nam did the same to an Instagram photo of Nathan and Mai Mihara. Now it's a long standing gag.

R14 ohh got it. I was confused bc I saw Nam leave the same comment under Chen's post before.

Jesus, whatever he is, I can't see Hanyu putting up with a sham relationship. As carefully crafted as people think his image is, I don't think he can help himself, constantly blurting out shit he shouldn't be saying. What he's thinking is written all over his face. If he's gay and forced to handle vagina, can you imagine the look of fear, revulsion and horror on his face?

And here you ave Yuzu asking "how about lutz?" to Brian in his cutest gay Canadian voice.

Nice size ass on Jun - wonder how he'll do at Finlandia this week with Kolyada and Aliev (I think they're his main competition, so good chance for another podium prance)

R18 Shhh. We can't talk about Junhwan until October 21, 2019. He's adorable though.

R17 The video doesn't work for me. Is there another link to it?

Voice can be different if we try to speak a foreign language in which we are not fluent. I want to vomit everytime I hear my French speaking voice. Same with Korean that I can speak a little bit ( with all my strength). It tends to get much more softer and so different from my natural voice that I can't even realize my own voice. If this is the case, his broken English has nothing to do with his sexuality, it's so gay though. His Japanese voice is another story.

R20 There are times where he sounds pretty gay in Japanese as well like in this interview, especially from 05:30 when he replies to Oda and also in the filming of the ads for that chocolate brand whose name I forgot. During press conferences or most interviews he just puts the serious athlete front and you cannot really tell. Just like with Orser most of the time. But I have noticed that usually when he is very tired and hence probably less controlled he ends up pinging much more with his voice than usual. Like here which is post NHK 2015 and where he admits he didn't sleep the entire night, or in the interviews post victory in Pyeongchang where he also didn't sleep. Same with the ads where he has to film for hours the same scenes since early morning. I know some will say I read too much into this but I don't believe it's a coincidence.

R19 Sorry I didn't check the link. I just found it after a long time and it used to work. I will try to see if I can find another one. I don't think it was ever uploaded on yt unfortunately. Unrelated but to come back to the Javi at Europeans discussion, I hope for his sake that he wins it or it's going to be a bit humiliating for his last competition. But he should really take it less lightly than he does now. Saying he is going to train for like 3 weeks at TCC beforehand and recycle his FS from last season even though the -30sec introduced this season makes a huge difference for all skaters in terms of layout and stamina issues. I do think that if he is cleanish the judges will want to give it to him, especially given how inconsistent Kolyada is but still, he shouldn't be too overconfident.

R22 LOL no biggie, I don't know why I'm so curious about Hanyu's gay Canadian accent.

I think you're right about Javi. When Doug Haw was on TSL, he said that the little competitions leading up to the big ones are where you fine tune and "sell" your programs to the judges so you can't just miss most of the season and then saunter in for one competition. In addition to his questionable physical condition due to lack of training, it's just not a good look for Javi to bring this recycled program and expect things to turn out well b/c it's his last comp and everyone wants things to end on a happy note for him. Who knows, maybe he'll come up with a brilliant short. Frankly, even if it doesn't go well, Javi will probably just shrug it off and ride into the sunset with Eric.

Leaving thousands of Yuzuvier fans crying in their suchi.

R24 What's "suchi"? Tried to google. Got this: Suchi, needle in sanskrit is also a name of vyuha formation in Hindu epic Mahabharata.

Oh I'm just stupid -- I always try to spell sushi as suchi and I don't know why

R26 Lol. The yuzuvier fangrls will cry all over Javier's and Eric's Instagram acccounts like they do now.

Doesn't Hanyu have a thing for P/C? I remember there were pics/reports of him slipping in and out just to watch their practice in Helsinki 2017. Or maybe I'm just indulging in my love for Cizeron. Anyone know what's happening with him? I heard he fell on his head.

Okay, WTF is this - that's Kolyada. I thought it was some old Russian milkmaid posing with her favorite skaters at first.

R28 If he does he has excellent taste and I seem to remember that Cizeron is a fan of him too. I think there is a video of him backstage at Pyeongchang where he is warming up with P/C and imitating Guillaume's moves next to him like a 5 years old kid. Can you believe these 2 are the same age.

That costume is terrible but I admire Kolyada's dedication. At least is not Messing's grandpa vest.

R29 He played a Russian old witch in his EX. Or something like that

R30 Are you fucking serious? Don't toy with me now. I'd be worse than the Yuzuvier fangirls if this were true. I know nothing about ice dance, but I find Cizeron indescribably hot. Both his skating and his personality. Gabby is great, but when they skate, I can only look at him. Cizeron and Hanyu need to do a program together. That might kill me though.

,,,,

Here's the video of Hanyu watching P/C's FD practice in Helsinki. One of the YT users has a helpful breakdown:

[quote] At 2:07:42 you can see on the right of the screen someone walking in, it's yuzuru. Notice how the people in the audience turns towards their left and start taking pictures. Then throughout the routine we can see him warming up, look behind P/C at 2:08:15, at 2:08:44 or again at 2:09:26. Once you've spotted him you can pay attention throughout the routine. Then after V/M started, the first shot we get from the spot where Yuzuru was warming up is at 2:14:17 and clearly, he is gone.

LOL This poor guy can't even fangurl without everyone noticing.

Hand on Lambiel's butt and staring into the camera - I'd think that's so directly gay that he knows that the world won't take him seriously. Like how straight girls grope each other while staring into cameras all the time and make wife jokes, precisely because they're straight and can afford to play gay. If he were really gay I'd think he would try to be more discreet.

I mean, if he were gay and were able to live like that it would be great, but.. I wonder if a lot of this speculation is more wishful thinking than anything else.

Like a "gay voice" that could totally just be a whiny baby voice, because he's the spoiled baby of the family. I would attribute Dai's casual way of talking to also being the baby of the family too. I wouldn't be surprised if Uno's high pitched voice is literally due to his small stature though.

r3 If he wants children and to live in Japan, he might have to get married. I read that it's very difficult to adopt in Japan, even for hetero couples, and fertility doctors only work with married couples.

Interesting perspective on the limp wrist thing from the S.O. He works in the trades and he says that sometimes people start developing a sort of muscle memory with their hands so they unintentionally start making fists more often because their hands are used to holding tools so much. He says it might be a similar thing with skaters and dancers- they're used to having the wrist flourishes from the performances and it starts crossing over into their day to day life. With Hanyu idolizing Weir since he was a child, perhaps he spent so much time emulating him that his hands naturally go into that state all the time now.

He also thinks that the reason our limp wristed man whore was thought of as gay while no one thought our limp wristed almost 40 virgin roommate was gay was because the virgin is ugly. I.e. Our perceptions are colored by our desires - we think Hanyu and Cha are gay because they're pretty and want them to be.

r29 Kolyada kind of looks like Red

R37 That's as ridiculous a reach as the ph poster thinking Japanese grandpas are buying Yuzu's calendar to give as example to their grandsons. What muscle memory bullcrap. He doesn't do the limp wrist when he skates. And about the guys you mention, believe me neither of them are straight. I speak from experience. I have no clue why you so vehemently want Hanyu to be straight that you would come up with such ridiculous counters each time someone mentions something he does or says which is not very straight.

I never thought Cha is gay. I can be sure 100%.

r38 Not sure why you think I "want" Hanyu to be straight. Just because I give him a 10% chance of being so? I actually enjoy thinking of him as gay but I like to consider all perspectives

R35 Poor P/C it's like Yuzu absorbed all their energy and then went on to win while they were left depleted and lost to V/M.

R35 It's hilarious when that person in the front is all set to record P/C and her friend taps her on the shoulder and points out Hanyu and she's immediately like, fuck ice dance! and turns her camera.

Hanyu said he's been watching a lot of ice dance recently. I can see why he'd be interested in the movement and the edgework. He likes P/C, he likes Virtue/Moir (Moir is pretty affectionate with him), he also seems weirdly close with Chock/Bates going by fancams. Both of them, not just Bates, as one might expect.

R38, I don't know. I think R37 has a pretty good explanation for why my fingers naturally gravitate towards my thumb to form a big "O."

R38 you said you "speak from experience" that neither of the guys mentioned are straight. Experience?? The guys named were Weir, Hanyu and Cha - who were you talking about?

R40 Yeah, sure that's totally why you would bring up the most far-fetched theories instead of accepting that if it looks, swims and quacks like a duck, it means the chance it is a duck is so high thinking it can be something else makes you look dumb.

If he likes V/M , why he didnt watch em then ? hahahah No one likes them, believe me

R44 The limp wristed manwhore and 40 years old virgin.

R42 He seems to get along particularly with Tessa and also with Madison and her boytoy.

Who is the guy in the Hawaiian shirt? An ice dancer? Maybe Yuzuru is pleading with him to lift him up?

C'mon R45 you've been so combative lately. Is it because of the limp wristed manwhore and the 40 year old virgin? Dump them both! You speak 7 languages. You have options.

R49 Evan Bates.

r45 Firstly, that isn't my belief. I was just sharing a perspective from someone I know.

Secondly, I give him a 90% chance of not straight. Every stereotype is rooted in commonalities, but there are always exceptions. Intelligence dictates that you at least consider those exceptions, especially when you encounter them in your day to day life. Most guys I know with lisps are gay. Every once in a while they have a speech impediment. Walks like a duck, talks like a duck. Isn't a duck. Happens sometimes.

Why are you so uppity about the outside possibility that he isn't gay? You can still jerk off to him whether he is or isn't.

R50 You are right. I'll stop because it's getting annoying even for me. I thought here was the place where I and same minded people could post about our favourite limp wristed gay twink and Japanese skater extraordinaire but the increasing numbers coming from places like ph clearly have made this more difficult. Point taken.

R49 No, he was actually begging him not to ask for him to do a quad battle like he used to do in other galas.

Cha is 16 years old. The way he talks, the way he interacts with others, a very typical Korean boy. Give him 3-5 years, I believe no one has a thought he's gay anymore.

I don't know about Uno, but personally I think it's more like he just doesn't have interest in romantic relatitionship for now than he's gay. And he doesn't care about not only romantic relationship, but also costumes, programs, casual clothes, how to act well in front of camera, how to take a good selfie, how to speak well before crowds... which he keeps a consistent "whatever" attitude towards. Unlike Yuzuru who pays attention to everything in great detail and with great care.

Everybody here agrees with you R52, but the 100% gay and the10% straight theories gotta live in peace in this thread.

R52 I think most people here, even the ones who entertain that there is an outside chance he might be straight, pretty much operate on the premise that he is a limp wristed twink.

That's why I like Uno R53. He's very relatable, I also don't give a shit about anything.

Have a pretty picture of Mean girls Yuzu and Shoma judging you.

R57 I don't know. Uno is incapable of having an expression that shows intent.

R58 Come on, I think he can do the 'look at the camera like you are in the Office' pretty well.

R59 I think we're anthropomorphizing Uno.

More on Uno from 25ans. First link on the page is to the making of and short interview video. Second link is to enter into a drawing for Uno’s autograph. Third link has 20 photos from when Uno was little until now. Last link has a summary of the top figure skaters of last season.

I think I’ll start posting in the original figure skating thread again if I can find it. You can look for my next updates there.

other thread for those who want to follow r61

R62 Wait, what just happened? Any kind soul want to summarize so I don't have to read through a bunch of posts to figure out who pissed off whom?

R60 I'm literally laughing out loud at this comment. Thanks.

r64 Looks like the Japanese Dirt Czar would like to switch to the general thread for some reason (don't know why, they seem more interested in Dance, but maybe we're too hardcore with the Hanyuass appreciation or he/she secretly can't take our gentle loving mockery of Uno?) and since his/her posts are quite interesting and popular, r62 is helpfully providing the link?

r63 Dirt Czar didn't say why she's going to other thread. I just provided a link in case she couldn't find it and to make it easier for other people to read her updates - didn't mean it as angry as it might look.

Not counting DaiTroll, I think only one person is pissed about the conversation. Basically, he seems to think that because Hanyu fits so many of the Western stereotypes for gay that there's zero chance that he might not be and anyone who entertains even an outside possibility of him not being 100% gay is a PH fangurl and shouldn't be here.

R65 r66 thanks so much. Love this thread but I guess it's not for everyone.

[R66} You cannot stop troling , cant you? None is pissed here ,because of what you re boring people here,with, old man youre the only one having a problem ...

De don't hate Uno, Dirt Czar, come back!

I am just laughing that a few old men talking about 24 years old boy. So i am not pissed , yu d love me to be, but whaterver you like, honey...Oh those old purvs hahahahah

Even i dont post here and you make uo things that i am pissed . You re delusional old purv Dont make shitstorm again. and stay with talking about those young male japneses , ok? And fuck off of me

Wow! Let's try to get along.: ) I'm trying to catch up

I'm one that thinks Hanyu is gay. I mean yeah there is a small percentage he might not be. I don't think his parents would be disappointed if he were gay. They have been supporting him in this crazy world he finds himself in for a long time. Who knows maybe they know already. I can't imagine his parents forcing him to Marry a woman if he isn't interested in women.

R71. How do you know the ages of the posters here? I'm not old btw just so you know. And you sound like daitroll. Unless there are more posters here posting like daitroll.

{R73} Of course ,* i am* that person you call Daitroll, fuckin moron .Yuu re so stupid.. You re not old, and i am not Daitroll ...LOL See a resembles?

I'm not old btw just so you know...hahhahhahaha and such words say someone who tries all the time calling me out and persuade me that i am a fan someone who I am not fond of and i dont care like Takahashi , big lol Now you know how it is like, oold perv? How old are you here? 40 , 50??

R73. You're right, that's just DaiTroll. Just an FYI to those who haven't blocked it yet, there's several skips in my posting sequence

Can you believe that Yuzu asked this tall gentleman for help to remove his costume during Worlds 2015 because of course he wasn't able to do it himself on that day. I'm sure the whole thing was purely innocent. Interesting that he didn't ask for help to a guy looking like Kevin Reynolds.

{R76} jesus,you re not smart here, old pervs. why would i answer back if i wouldnt be that person you try to insults allthe time??/// Get back to school, jesus, what a mystery for you if am not a dai troll or not. ahhahaha I wrote " Dont insult me " do who you think it supposed to be, old man?What dickhead. Sto USING BRAIN, not your dick . Or FUCK SOME ASS, you old pedophile for once

The hidden comments are mine, not Daitroll's. I don't troll this thread (much) and my comments keep getting hidden instead of Daitroll's, as they should.

{R76} You have to paid to get laid, I bet??? ahhaha so yo re waatching young japaneses on the net - it is the only one thing you have..what a sad life

[R79} LOL I am not a pedophile here. Hanyu trolls here are accusing me of someone who i am not , who has a problem here . They re trollling and they have nothing left to do. They re just killing their time , making other people angry BECAUSE THEY LIKE IT. THEY RE SICK and MEAN and you telling me i am the one bad here? Next old perv here, you kiss your buddie asses?

R76. Thanks. I think it's off their meds today. They're going cray. Better not to feed it. Hopefully they take their medication soon. I'm worried! lol

R79 I think you're fine. I can see your comments. R70 R71 R74 R75 R78 R80 etc. is obviously crazy Daitroll whose typos even have the visual effect of being unhinged looking.

R77 LOL. I love it.

R79 maybe you accidentally blocked yourself. All your posts show up for me.

{R81} Meds? thats a good one Old perv looking at asses of young boys tellimg me about meds. oh , those ouble standarts...Now i am pissed! hahahahahaha

[R82]Ojh we have today MANY PURVS HERE Why Dai? Why not Shoma or Chock Bates?Or scott moir.?? I have been looking for an answer ,co you re too stupid to explain and you like trolling, dear . No one wants you in real life,huh? Anf pervs here talking about meds. Hilarious. .Go to planet hanyu and masturbate a little to the toilet

I , every day have an ocassion to touch fantastic ass, my man' asss. Not like those japaneses pedophiles ass like hanyus or shoma's . Bleee. 27 years old man with great butt and looooooooooooog legs .Not some 1,70 cm men Now imagine and start being jealous, crazy losers.

So, bitchies i know something about asses so dont think you r smarter then me, your childish talking make me laugh here

How very dare you besmirch my obscure object of desire's honour, sir! Yuzuri is 172 cm I'll have you know!

You folks have bad gaydar, Yazuru is straight. I think him being Japanese is throwing you off.

Amen brother @ 89! If anybody on God's green earth would know it would be Yuru himself and he said he "wasn't one of them" and dangit, he even told that butch daddy Nobo Odo that he was gonna get married at 25 or 26. I have seen him avowin' with his own mouth. You bad boys are just jealous you can't have him and his succulent ass all to yourself - give it up - you never will!!

I don't quite agree R89 but gay stereotypes are different in Japan. Hanyu is behaves and sounds perfectly straight to the Japanese.

And your post is a mess R90 but I liked the 'succulent ass' bit, I'm gonna use it.

R90. Do you think Hanyu would say. Yes. I'm one of them. Of course not. Nobody would do that.

Anyway we will probably have to agree to disagree on the is Hanyu gay or straight topic.

R90 was mocking r89.

I'm still trying to figure out if r89 is being serious. The consistent purposeful misspelling of Hanyu's name makes me think he might be joking but I'm not sure.

R83 It seems that was the problem lol I can see all my comments now

Confront your feelings r95, don't ignore them. Glad you're learning to heal and love yourself again.

R94. Ah ok. Thanks. It is hard to tell the difference at times. : )

Thank you R96. I'm glad, too.

This thread is so meta. It lives up to its namesake.

Does someone knows why you cannot post on FSuniverse after registering?

Daitroll is a 75 year old sicko. Get lost and leave these people alone. Just because your life is miserable doesn't give you the right to be a bitch!

J muted the troll and a few other pests and now it feels great, albeit a bit weird seeing the thread getting so many new posts but no actual content.

26 minutes ago FigureSkatingMisc Retweeted 自由人

Shoma Uno’s younger brother, Itsuki, will appear on NTV’s Ariyoshi Zemi Special on October 8, 7 pm-9 pm (Japan).

Oh God, I hope "Where's the Pooh" subs this for us!

This thread is such a shitshow.

100 replies of nothing but girls pretending they're gay men and trying their hardest to sound sassy and in-the-know. And trolls. And someone who needs an actual psychologist (the one going on about how Nathan is sad and it makes them like him more ???)

The only one posting anything of interest is the Japanese dirt czar and now she is gone.

Methinks this is exactly what the posters from the general thread wanted to avoid by pushing the Hanyu fans out. Some of you are very young/ very frustrated/ very unfamiliar with wit and sass. And it shows. God it shows.

R104. Maybe once there is some skating from Hanyu it might get better. When he skated at ACI I thought the posts were interesting and fun. I'm starting to think having his name in the thread was a bad idea. I like to have fun here and I'm ok with everyone except the trolls that go out of their way to attack other posters. Isn't life too short for that kind of nonsense?

[R101] New day, new pervs... You repeted the whole things I said about you all here yesterday.. Are you dumb? You described yourself .Congratulations.

And I wouldn't mind going back to the general thread R104. I felt that they didn't want any Hanyu talk. I admit I do like talking about him and most of the posts here so far I have only read and not replied. Like I said the trolls are the problem here as of right now imo.

I do check out the general thread but it's often just lists of pairs or dance teams that are competing in some current event. Is it really that wondrous? Then why bother to come here and complain? Just stay over there and enjoy!! BTW, what threads on here are really all that magical? Or on any message board for that matter. I think they're becoming passe quelle surprise. I think this one is fun sometimes - that one? Not often if ever.

[quote] And I wouldn't mind going back to the general thread [R104]. I felt that they didn't want any Hanyu talk. I admit I do like talking about him and most of the posts here so far I have only read and not replied. Like I said the trolls are the problem here as of right now imo.

[R107] No, the problem was that obsessive Fanyus decided to turn the general thread into an obsessive Hanyu fan thread overnight.

What I've noticed is that this thread is great during the weekends when people with jobs have free time to start good discussions. During the weekdays it gets swamped by trolls (or troll, the bad grammar one) who apparently have nothing else to do.

R104 also wrote this on another thread:

[quote]Also Esbrat/Novoselov were scheduled to skate at a skating school show in France the last week end of June, but they just didn't show up. Makes me wonder like r395 how easy his release is going to be. Also, from the style of posting there are at most 4 posters who keep going on hanyu and co. At least one us japanese. Ça we agree to at least reduce the frequency of posting? It's not very interesting and it makes everyone run away. Also I'm surprised at how rude and anti-western the Japanese poster is.

So R104 is not interested in Hanyu and dislikes the Japanese poster, but is now so very concerned that this thread is lacking the "wit and sass" that's crackling in the general discussion thread. Please, go join the 100% authentic gays, definitely not fraus on the general discussion thread.

{R110} Even you re not smart enough to know that here in europe we different time zones . I rarely post here in weekends coz I HAVE SOCIAL LIFE off computer , moron. Yesterday when I was here , in my country we had late afternoon. AFTER work So if you insist that you spend your weekends WITH computers on datalounge ....well you described yourself enough, troll

Well. Maybe we can make this work. I do enjoy this thread. And before this thread was made I didn't really see obsessive Hanyu talk from fanyus on the general skating thread. Did they like to talk some gossip? Sure! I love gossip myself.

I managed to get my hands on tickets for Helsinki. I will try to post some stuff when I'm there.

That's great R114! Can't wait to hear - have a blast!

Wow, you guys are a fretful bunch. All this reflection and flagellation when Dirt Czar didn't even say why she (I'm going to say she because other people are; I personally have no idea) is leaving. Maybe she wants to talk about JPN pairs! Maybe she is pissed at the other Japanese speaking poster because they've tussled in the past about the same issues we've discussed in last few days (e.g., how gay Hanyu comes across when speaking Japanese; how homophobic Japan is) and I've noticed this time she's given up and didn't even bother! Maybe she doesn't doesn't like ass. Who knows? I love Dirt Czar and sorry to see her leave, but no need to worry, just catch her on the other side and bring the discussion back here. What's the big deal?

That's amazing R14 looking forward to your updates. Thank you for those words of wisdom R116 we certainly need them.

How about stopping the meta talk and posting valuable content instead.

My guilty pleasure is reading this blog and this is one of the best confessions I've seen in a while. Whatever do they mean?

R119 I have no idea what it means. Who would write such a thing?

r109 No, the problem with the old thread, and now this thread, and will be with the other thread if people go back there again, is the inability of some people to grasp common sense. You don't like the content of the thread, find a different thread or start your own. A poster annoys you, then block him. You only want to have discussion with like minded people but then complain about the majority of the posters - you're in the wrong thread and probably shouldn't be on an anonymous unmoderated forum. The thread starter made this thread specifically so people can talk about anything. Most skating fans are female. A lot of people come to DL for unfettered discussion that they can't get on the mainstream forums. You can't stop them so bitching in thread only serves to derail the thread. Insulting people to get your way will only result in either fights or the barren wasteland that the other thread has become. Trying to make the world conform to you is both selfish and futile. Water is wet. Fire is hot. 1+1=2

Disregarding DaiTroll, up until this morning, it's literally only been 1 regular that's thrown the occasional tantrum and he said he finally did the obvious and just blocked the people annoying him so most of the bickering should disappear. The people talking this morning about how shitty this thread is are people who don't normally post here.

The timing of Dirt Czar's departure suggests 1 or both of 2 things, but the timing could also be a complete coincidence. Perhaps someone should just ask her the next time she posts. I applaud her for doing the intelligent thing - she didn't like it here for whatever reason, and left civilly rather than trying to make everyone else change.

r101 DaiTroll is either a genuine troll or mentally disabled. I don't mean the latter as a politically incorrect way of calling it stupid - I mean if it's for real, it seems like the result of fetal alcohol syndrome or something of that ilk. Either way, no point in trying to reason with it.

r119 Probably beat their fave. That blog is fun occasionally but you would think that there would be some juicier confessions. As far as the Pooh thing, I read an article from, I think 2013, when the journalist said that he indicated in the Kiss & Cry "Thank you, but that's enough". You would think he'd like to get something different, but I imagine the visual wouldn't be as good as the dozens of Poohs piled up.

And finally, something for the guy into the frontal

Yes, that makes the most sense R121, but the wording of the confession is so dramatic it made me laugh out loud and then be somewhat concerned for the OP.

About what you said that the confessions are not that juicy is because the moderators have established a long set of rules so the options are limited.

Dai is doing Regionals this weekend?

r123 Looks like it

Look in the Kinki Regionals section

I hope his costumes are tighter this season. Please, Mr. Takahashi, I want to see lines, not bunched up fabric.

R121 Thank you for a dose of common fucking sense. Why let R104, the asshole "methinks" troll from the other thread so easily derail this one. If the conversation is mostly about Hanyu's voice or sexuality or muscle memory or whatever it's because that's what most people want to talk about. Either join in, skip, ignore or start another discussion on something else. I honestly don't care if you're a frau or if you want to talk about your own mental health experience or if, like me, you're here for ass. I'm glad this is a place where all are welcome. I honestly even like Daitroll, but that might be because I have her on ignore most of the time.

R123 Yes, Dai is doing Kinki Regionals. Fuji will broadcast and if I see any rabbits, I'll post the links there. I'm a little confused though, are they only planning to show his SP (Sheltering Sky/David Wilson)?

[R121} The most funny is you re all disabled. Old men looking at yong mens asses. Calling me an alccoholic, crazy, disabled one blablablabla ( Find something better , coz it is already boring) is just a way to provoke me and you re all here , ironically talking about yourself ,old purvs .. describing "me".. So get a life , fuck some man , loser , because calling me a crazy , disabled , off meds (etc etc etce .)doesnt make your life better.Old bachelors sitting here with hands in their pants..so instead of provoking me , calling me out FIRST (LIKE TROLLS DO ) do something with your life,PERV. you re wanna watch FS whole life , looking at asses of figure skaters??? LOL

I love his hair like that. Dai definitely has good angles.

R128. Hey DA! I'm a 32 year old woman. I know you're probably close to 80 and a bitter old hag. Get a life (whatever is left of it) Do you have family? I assume they can't stand you since they won't get you mental help. This is my last response to you because you are a waste of space. Keep flapping your gums. I'm done......

r130 Wtf, do we have 2 Daitrolls now?

R131 Or, she's talking to herself.

I'm not daitroll. I'm not even a troll. I saw her posting and acting like a little bitch to you all so I said something. I figured since she says she is a woman then another woman can say something back to her. But I'm done here. You guys enjoy this board. It looks like a lot of fun and good talk.

r127 Hey Ass Enthusiast, are you also BC3a? Realized I shared something with Frontal Guy but not you so I dug up this gem. BC3a vid at the proper angle so you can start by enjoying a shot of his assets and finish with the axel.

I don't know what to think about that white suit.

R134 I'm not BC3a. While I suspect that a venn diagram of the sensuous closed curves of our sets of interests would show some commonality, I am less finicky and will take ass in motion, stationary, or whatever, just as long as it does its little ass thing. In other words, your great vid does the trick for me too. Thanks for being a friend to all!

R135 The suit is white? I didn't notice.

I'm the full frontalist - and realized I forgot to thank you for the disrobing Hanyu, unfortunately startled by the camera. Poor guy probably imagined his half naked body on Women 7 or whatever with them saying all manner of nasty things. So sad he's hunted and hounded (but I still loved the peek :)

That video made realize that there's an unacceptable lack of shirtless Hanyu in the web. Cannot believe.

I think this is just about all we have, from 2014 I think (other than the little glimpse when he caught sight of the camera and got all bashful)

I like the white one better than the purple honestly. The purple was just ugly no matter who could have worn it.

r140 I was just about to get that. It's from 2012. Seems pervy even by our standards to ogle a 17 yr old with face of a 14 yr old but ever since it's been that fucking illusion mesh to the throat no matter how little skin is actually showing. He was so much skinnier but even back then he was pretty muscular. It seemed like he became more cautious about his public image starting the following year.

He probably got picked on about the video :(

His shoulders seem a lot broader now. I guess we'll have to make do with the low cut shirts with the illusion mesh - even though a lot of the guys just show their chests, right?

At least he favors nice tight pants for his practice clothes - some of the others wear baggy pants - and some of them just don't wear the tight as well as he does (like all of them?) I'm open to judging any possible contenders (of the appropriate age of course)

r141 But the purple one is tighter and the color doesn't hide the musculature. Purple all the way for me.

r143 I'm not a fan of the Otonal costume because he looks like a flat chested 12 yr old girl playing princess. Judging by how he looks in UA, his chest looks like his 2nd best feature- show it off!

I agree the purple one was so much better. I generally dislike when skaters wear white because it blends with the ice. Chamaleons they become.

R146. I liked Hanyu in the white until I really paid attention and saw that it made his face look washed out. He looked like a ghost. Not pretty at all.

Lol, poor Brian. How does he deal with this shit on a daily basis.

LOL R147. You don't think he has any perfectionism or OCD tendencies, do you?

I always enjoy watching Yuzu tidying up the table where they sit for the press conference after a skate.

[R130] My dear. i am almost 10 years younger then you. The rest is a lie also. Goodbye

I hope I can see the three main men, anyway (probably will be on Youtube).

FINLANDIA - I assume these times are Finland time (seven hours later than Eastern Standard Time in the US)

Pairs Noon, Men 2, Ladies 5.30 tomorrow (Friday)

Saturday: Ice Dance at Noon, Pairs 2.25pm, Men 4.40pm

Sunday: Ladies 1pm, Dance 5.15pm.

Kolyada-Aliev-Cha; Tuktamysheva (who’s 21 and won at Lombardia)-Tursynbaeva (18 and 2nd at Nepela) -Konstantinova (18 and 3rd at Nepela). Tarasova/Morozov are the only pair I recognize. Don't know any dance teams.

I like his cute untrimmed unevenly shaped eyebrows. Adam Rippon can sue me.

The interviewer (from Golden Skate) actually asked Eteri what were her beauty secrets, as one of the first questions - and she said just one, sleep. She said she left America where she lived for a while because she had to get up too early. She doesn't like to start work before 11 in the morning. LOL.

This reminds me of Meghan Duhamel complaining that she was on a bus with Eteri at a comp DURING a ladies event that she had skaters at - Meghan was shocked that she didn't even bother to show up. She and Dave surmised that Eteri just sort of oversees the whole operation (and decides who stays and who is dropped) while others do the actual work.

Also he asked her what turned things around for ladies' skating in Russia, which had a drought for a while, and she said, "I started coaching there."

Gotta love her. Actually I did like her in this interview - she said nice things about Gracie Gold and Ashley Wagner (this interview was several years ago). Brief comment about Zhenya being able to keep up, if those girls improved.

Eteri embodies every Russian stereotype. Looking forward to everyone skating this weekend, should be fun while I wait for Hanyu's next competition.

r145 Sleeping long is a Russian stereotype?

Finlandia: Any bets as to the order on the Men's podium? Logic would dictate Kolyada-Aliev-Cha but Cha looked really good at Autumn Classic and both Aliev and Kolyada an bomb just out of the blue. I haven't forgiven Kolyada for the Carmen yet, even though I like his SP, so I hope either Aliev or Cha will win. I like both of them, and I've already warmed up to Cha's bizarre trashy Romeo and Juliet.

All three of them will go into GP with two competitions under their belts and few extra points in standings, not a bad strategy.

Ted Flett? Blech.

Eteri has a history of bad mouthing her own students ( right after they left her, after that she rarely mentions them) but there's actually one thing I like about her that unlike Orser, she neither commented on other coaches and her student's rivals nor did she try to prove her coaching is the best.

R155 I would put Cha over Aliev

Petr Gumennik won the short at JGP Ljubljana. I really liked him when we saw him last at JGP Canada. Haven't had a chance to watch the SP, but here it is:

Gumennik is so polished for 16. No quad but that was a high easy-looking 3A. He reminds me of the little female Russian stars, with the consistency and pretty skating. Also because he's 5'4" - small like the girls there are. But he's not one of Eteri's, according to Wiki. (but 3 former coaches! one was Mishin)

R158 I like him too. Impressed by his incredible flexibility, rotational speed and 3A-3lo combo.

r160 Wow, 3A-3Lo could be a major weapon if he gets a couple of quads. I think -3Lo combos will become more popular among the men now, with fewer jump passes and more quads. That -2T in those quad-packed programs from top guys sticks out like a sore thumb.

Are you talking about Gumennik or Cha? I just re-watched and Gumennik started his program with a huge pretty 3A but his combo wasn't a 3A-Lo -- I think it was a 3 Lutz-3 Toe. All his jumps were nice though. And I happened to notice his legs were long relative to his body so he may not end up all that small. Hopefully not too tall though - it seems to screw up their jumps sometimes and he's such a diamond in the rough (and not really rough, at that)

R162 Gumennik does the 3A+3Lo combo in the FS.

Here's Petr's FS in Richmond with the 3A-3Lo

Oh thanks R163 - sorry about that.

1980 Olympic Champion Anett Potzsch will be the caller for Men in Finlandia. Olga Baronova from Finland will be her assisant. Baronova was one of the specialists of the Ladies event in Sochi.

Judges will be from Czech Republic, Canada, Russia, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Georgia and Switzerland

South Korea didn't send any judge. Italy was put in the Ladies panel (with no skater)

R166 Olga Baranova sure doesn't sound like a Finnish name. Was she one of the Russian plants at Sochi?

Here is the starting order for Finlandia. There are always a few people willing to provide free streams on YT.

Just so I'm not discriminating against the ladies, here's the starting order for Ladies SP

R168. If possible can you post the yt link here for that competition?

From a new Tatsuki Machida book coming out. I don't think his dramatic gay (we're all in agreement there, yes?) ass and big hair get enough appreciation so I'm gonna post some pictures.

R171 Yes, please. He's definitely coming into his own gay. Glad his skin cleared up so he can be his most fabulous self.

R170 Here's a stream

Machida's eight-minute-long Bolero was the most goddamn pretentious thing I've ever seen, but I'll forgive it since you can't expect him to be otherwise and since it was his swan song. And his ass looked good as always. He has a strong ass game, probably the one of the strongest on Team Japan.

I want to ask him how does it feel to be the inspiration for yuri on ice. Does he love it? Does he wish he never retired so it could never have happened? Doesn't give two shits about it? Does he even know about it?

R172 As evinced by the below photo, he's learned to use makeup. His skin will never look great, but his foundation does. Sadly I think his acne probably held him back in some small degree from becoming a Takahashi-level idol.

R175 I imagine he knows and is fascinated in a scholarly, meta way.

His acne and probably his hair also.

I just found this picture and have no idea what's going on but whatever. If Machida tells me that's how samurai skated, then that's how it was. They put on their compression leggings and half their shirt, made sure their katanas were honed and polished and their nipples were out, and went off to war against their rival clans.

R174 You can't just reference ass and then provide only side ass. Rude.

R178 this whole post. LMAO. thanks.

R179 I have this ass image, but was hoping to find a version where his face didn't look like it was melting. Much like real life, you can try to disregard the upper portion and enjoy the lower, I suppose.

Machida is like Fernandez. Their asses look excellent in motion but are tough to find pictures of, unlike Hanyu, who is well-documented from all angles. (I have yet to find a picture of Fernandez that looks anywhere near as good as he does on video.....come on, people.) This Machida gif isn't bad though.

R182 I was just about to say the same thing. Despite complaining about R174, I myself couldn't find a good Machida ass shot, so I settled for Yuri (I think it's Yuri, I've never seen the show).

Javier.

Holy moley

I have a question for the Machida fans. I hear all the time about how he speaks in a very flowery, analytical way. I'm pretty sure Hanyu's made sport of this. What's an example of Machida speaking this way?

[quote]Gumennik is so polished for 16. No quad but that was a high easy-looking 3A.

He practices 4S and he said he was going to add one to his FS here in Ljubljana. We'll see. I think he's fantastic, a complete package, and knows how to entertain. Compared to the other Russian boy Danielyan they keep hyping up on GS, who looks like he's visiting the dentist with the saddest version of Puttin' On The Ritz I ever heard. I liked Koshiro here too.

R173. Thank you! I subscribed and asked to be notified when it starts.: )

Another competition this weekend: 2018 Japan Open, October 6 + Carnival on Ice gala

Current roster:

Team North America: Nathan Chen, Bradie Tennell, Jeremy Abbott, Mariah Bell Team Europe: Javier Fernandez, Alina Zagitova, Deniss Vasiljevs, Maria Sotskova Team Japan: Satoko Miyahara, Kaori Sakamoto, Shoma Uno, Nobunari Oda

Interesting, especially about Daleman: The substitutions of Maria Sotskova (for Carolina Kostner "left leg muscle inflammation") and Mariah Bell (for Gabrielle Daleman "poor conditioning" according to Google Translate) have been announced on the official event site.

Guest skaters: Tatsuki Machida (marking his retirement?), Stéphane Lambiel, Maia & Alex Shibutani, Jason Brown, Akiko Suzuki, Kanako Murakami

Maybe a live stream will be available – or youtubes after. I guess if you’re in Japan or have access there’s the Japanese tv broadcast:

I cannot figure out this Japan Open schedule, but you can see it if you click on the link on this isu page:

SYWTWFS says the livestream for Japan Open is here

Here is the full SYWTWFS website with info (schedule, entries, streaming) for all 3 events happening this weekend - Japan Open, Finlandia and JGP Ljubljana

Dai is also at Kinki Regionals this weekend, but I don't have streaming info for that.

Thank you so much - I didn't know about SYWTWFS before! You've made my FS season :)

Now I've got to do some linear algebra or something to figure out the time difference.

R193 Time zone converter

Aw such a sweet helpful thread. I can't believe some people don't like us!

R184 Javier has such a delicious butt, body and face. If only he could stop blabbering nonsense during interviews, he would be absolutely perfect. Lucky Yuzu getting to see this up close almost daily for 6 years.

r152 I was thinking the other day how, for the 1st time, he's actually looking like the elder statesman on the podium. But then you see a pic like this and he's back to looking like a teenager

r155 r158 I agree. I think Aliev is the vulnerable Russian. Kolyada generally gets bigger scores than the other 2 even when he bombs. Not sure how consistent Cha is - can he string 2 good competitions together? Aliev's score was pretty close in spite of getting an jump combo invalidated though.

BTW, does Aliev ping to anyone else?

r184 mmmmm. something so seductive about just a peak of cleavage. Definitely one getting saved in the ass folder.

r179 r183 r184 Looks like they're giving us a weekend assignment

Weird thing about Machida's ass is that when you get a direct shot from behind it doesn't look all that good.

Ok. I suppose I should stop now before this thread becomes overrun with Machida ass

R198 That's a pity when an ass's bad side is its backside.

Yuzu deceptively big-smal butt for comparison.

r200 I think the "H"shaped ass is just not to my taste. Same reason I don't like Patrick Chan's and other prominent rears.

I guess Nobunari Oda is planning to do a 4t in his YMCA program at Japan Open. I don't want you all to think I'm going off topic or anything, so here's a picture of his ass.

Though it does look lovely in motion

... okay, now I'll stop.

r203 I'm excited to see old man Oda doing the quad. I have so much respect for him for not coasting even though he's retired and I love his personality.

Though his ass is oddly dumpy in spite of being quite meaty.

r201 So even Hanyu's ass has a bad angle, at which it almost disappears. Luckily skaters usually have plenty opportunity to dsiplay it properly.

r205 Oda's ass definitely needs a flattering angle and clothing.

R197 Aliev completely pings to me. Watch him in the K&C with his coaches here

In other words this is the thread where all the rice queens talk about figure skating.

R208 Nah, love of ass knows no race, culture or religion. You've just caught us on outre Japanese ass night. If you ask nicely, I'm sure someone will find that ass pic of Minoru Sano you came here for.

R208 I take offence. Yuzu is the only Japanese skater I find really attractive. And Keiji maybe too but that's about it. Otherwise I'm more into Javi's dumb Spaniard type even if I think he is probably a bit of an asshole.

Sorry but Yuzu's ass still look great in those pics R206

Here's a stream for Finlandia Trophy. Tarasova/Morozov have another meh SP - "I Feel Good." Is James Brown really a good idea for two of the whitest, least funky skaters of all time?

r207 I'm not seeing it. He's not macho, but nothing particularly pingy either. He's good looking though.

I always find it funny when coaches are all "fucknyeah!" and students just "smilesmile". Rukavicin rarely has reason to feel satisfied, his students tend to be trainwrecks.

R210 It seems Javier is ready to retire. His body changed dramatically. Can he jump with this body ?

r2014 It doesn't look particularly different to me, at least I can't tell anything from that photo. Looking at his chest and midsection, he's aboout the same as ever. He seemed really thin at Olympics. We'll see what shape he's in at Japan Open.

Men's SP at Finlandia is starting. The stream picked up about 1000 Koreans who will drop off after Cha skates, I'm sure.

How the hell does Javier Raya afford to keep training with Orser? Is he from a wealthy family or something?

So far the men at Finlandia are a mess. Bychenko didn't manage a single jump, lol. Hopefully Aliev can deliver.

How did Cha skate? I missed his skate but did see him in the K&C with Brian. They both looked pleased.

Was Orser also with Raya?

Is any coach with Javi in Japan?

Cha's probably wondering what happened to the supposed Orser PCS boost.

Actually, I'm wondering the same.

About Raya, doesn't his federation pay at least some part?

It's weird how this thread can fill up with 100 posts of bullshit about Yuzuru's ass and depression one day, and turn into a ghost town on a day when there are multiple competitions going on.

R222 maybe most of us are working and can't watch in real time.

I wish I was a good judge of skating - even moreso, I wish the fucking judges were good judges of skating - Cha still in the 30s in PCS! But he looks good to me.

On Wikipedia, it says he was not only a child model but also a ballet dancer. I wonder to what extent?

In any case, he's getting pretty good control over those long limbs - there's a fluidity to his movement I like. Is he the closest thing we have to a Yuzu mini-me? We better find one - time is fleeting! Anyway, found a youtube of his short this morning yay! I can't do "real time" streaming worth a damn - however did people watch tv before dvrs. Their whole lives just stopped for the telly every night? (not that the internet is a vast improvement I realize but it operates on your own time)

Now I'm gonna go search for the standings - I'm like Eteri - I just got up! Not gonna admit the time zone.

r222 Maybe everybody actually intrested in FS and not ass goes to other FS places instead. Also, most Americans and Europeans are at work at this time of day.

r220 The PCS was real bad for Cha, but either my audio synchro was off or he skated most of his program completly not to the music.

I think Cha's PCS are correct. He had a nice skate and his scores reflect where he is as a skater right now.

Kolyada Kolyaded but still beat Cha. He was skating so fast - it almost seemed rushed to me. Fell on Jump #1, combo ok, hand down on third. He looked like he was waiting for the executioner in the k&c but ended up like 10 pts over Cha in PCS. When I looked at that judge list - and South Korea didn't bother to send a judge (no one from Asia I don't think) it pissed me off. It pissed Orser off when Korea didn't want to bother to send Cha to Worlds. Just fuck.

But like I said, I can't judge skating any better than the judges can - Kolyada certainly had more speed than Cha, but Cha was clean and Kolyada screwed up 2/3rds of his jumps. Apologize if I'm screwing up by posting these videos - I know everybody else can find them - somebody tell me, in pissy Missy Lindsey Graham fashion, to "knock it off" if I shouln't be posting them (or you'll kill my cat or cut my tires)

3 judges gave Kolyada +2 on his 3A with a hand down on the ice. Fuck them. I want to like Kolyada but judges make it impossible.

I don't want to be mean but no wonder so many Japanese uncles lust after Yuzu when this is how their ladies look like.

r229 You're talking about Japan. I bet you there's more than enough pervs who will find that kinky.

Cha is lovely but skating clean isn't the only criteria to high PCs. He still has a bit to work on. But more than that he needs to rotate his jumps. Say what you want but even at 16 Yuzu had no UR issue on his quad or any of his triples. Though I really see a bright future for Jun Hwan if he keeps up. I sure would be happy if he came and stole the OGM from under the nose of the "sQuad" in Beijing.

R229, I happen to think that's hot.

Oh poor Satoko. Is that recent R229? Yuzu has bigger boobs than she does. And the ass is second to none, especially with the flare-out from his tiny waist. We were talking about Javi upstream - I've always thought he was very handsome, but he's so tense looking - and his body is boring. No flare-out, pretty flat behind actually - just the typical bloke who works out a bit. And when you say he's a jerk in interviews, you mean disavowing his friendship with Yuzu or is it worse? (I'm not sure his English is that much better than Yuzu's)

r231 But if he skates cleanly regularly, his PCS should move up a bit. There's hope.

Yay I just realized Cha was 2nd in the short at Finlandia! Maybe I misread the scores when I watched his youtube. MUCH closer than I thought. And he has over 5 points on Aliev! I think yeah, he is my mini-me Yuzu - sorry Shoma, maybe I'll get back to you.

Men’s short (FINAL) 1. Mikhail Kolyada RUS - 85.20 2. Junhwan Cha KOR - 84.67 3. Dmitri Aliev RUS - 79.36 4. Nicolas Nadeau CAN - 79.17 5. Morisi Kvitelashvili GEO - 77.52 6. Matteo Rizzo ITA - 76.53 7. Alexander Majorov SWE - 73.41 8. Sota Yamamoto JPN - 72.16 9. Ryuju Hino JPN - 70.92 10. Lukas Britschgi SUI - 68.40 11. Petr Kotlarik CZE - 62.86 12. Alexey Erokhov RUS - 62.16 13. Sondre Oddvoll Boe NOR - 60.61 14. Luc Economides FRA - 59.57 15. Alexander Johnson USA - 59.42 16. Valtter Virtanen FIN - 59.18 17. Daniel Albert Naurits EST - 56.26 18. Javier Raya ESP - 55.51 19. Graham Newberry GBR - 52.99 20. Nikolaj Majorov SWE - 50.97 21. Roman Galay FIN - 48.99 22. Alexei Bychenko ISR - 46.90

R233 Yeah the picture is from this Japan Open if I'm not mistaken so today or yesterday. Javier is a beautiful man but indeed he often looks a bit tense. I wouldn't mind to help him loosen up a bit. I'm glad he gained back some weight and muscles. He was looking awfully skinny this year so far.

Cha's jump setting up bothers me a lot. His PCS was right IMO. Koyalda was overscored.

4 months ago when GPs assignments were released, many dumb forks on Twitter and PH said Finland and Russia's GP events were gonna easy competitions for Yuzuru and they don't see how he can't win agaisnt such a weak field. Haha they referred a field with Boyang Jin, Kolyada, Jun Hwan Cha ( who should have won ACI), Aliev,etc...the "weak field". Not want to sound like a pessimist but it seemed Yuzuru spoiled them so much that they never learn. Yes, he's supposed to wayyy better than all of them but once he bombs, he can go back to junior level score. Not to mention he's usually judged more harshly than other competitiors.

My favourite youngsters. They give me hope that once Yuzu retires, there will still be something to look forward in men skating.

R237 I will be watching Yuzu live in Finland so I sure hope he doesn't splat as hard as he usually does for his first GP but beyond that I don't care much. Unless he is completely off or injured, he normally is super engaging and beautiful to watch even with some mistakes.

I'll never understand the hardon judges have for Kolyada. The program isn't even interesting. A typical Lambiel-type program but skated without any passion or feeling. Aliev is far more interesting to watch. Not a fan of Cha's crappy programs either, but he did get hosed in PCS.

R236 Orser was with Cha at Finlandia, so I don't think he could be with Javi - and I don't think their skates are till Saturday, so I don't think that photo could be from Japan Open - but with all that's going on, I'm not sure what all is going on in skating this weekend - Finland, Japan, Ljubjlana or however you spell it - is that Slovenia? When it rains it pours.

r238 Aww. Am I supposed to ship Aliev/Cha now that Yuzu/Javi is over. Cha looks like he's 11 in that first pic though.

r239 I don't understand most judges' hardons. Chen, Uno, Zagitova, Miyahara, Papadakis/Cizeron, Tarasova/Morozov.

r240 Both Javier and Orser look younger, it looks like an old pic, maybe from a past Japan Open.

Upon closer inspoection, there're Skate Canada logos in the background and on Orser's K&C pass ribbon.

R240 Sorry for the confusion. It is an old picture which I simply used to illustrate how handsome he is. My comment on his weight and muscles was based on the pictures from this year's Japan Open. I think I posted one earlier today or I dreamt I did.

Uno could pull off a clean FS at JO and he'll probably top his scores from Lombardia, even though it won't be official. The boner judges have for him is real.

Can you imagine a world where Uno and his ugly jumps hold the world records? Especially if Yuzu retires and score inflation going up more than it already is until 2020 Olympics is a thing.

Now I'm starting to understand how Yuna fans feel when Med and her overrated consistency got her those world record scores. And then came Alina and her labored skating.

Poor Bychenko - I think he popped every jump - and badly! Maybe 30 is really hitting the wall in figure skating (unless you're Carolina or Evgeni? or is that when he hit the wall at Sochi?) And he was 4th at the splatfest Worlds 2018 - I remember him backstage with Shoma. Oh well, maybe his skates weren't right - he seemed to be checking them at one point, as though they might be broken.

Oh you did, R243, I saw the earlier photo. I'm just discombobulated with all the skates to look at today - sorry!

R239 when I saw Cha's scores I thought he got hosed but finally saw the skate (thank you r224) and he got what he deserved. I really like his style of skating but the choreo is amateurish. He also needs to fix his jumps. Aside from the rotational issues he takes too long to set them up. Haven't seen Kolyada so I don't know if he was just overscored but wouldn't be surprised. I always forget, is Kolyada supposed to be the fat one or the one who skates like a girl.

r246 The one who skates like a girl. The fat one who skates like a boy is Tuktamysheva. Koklada's SP was decent, but he got overscored on jumps GOE and about 2-3 PCS too many for a skate with a fall.

Tarasova said Kolyada skated like a girl and Aliev was fat (around the time of Pyeongchang.)

I'm sure the Tuk comment was said, also - she popped back on Twitter at someone who said she was past it, saying she was only getting started. Jackie Wong gave her a +5 GOE for that retort.

Dave Lease does an analysis of three skaters - Hanyu, Uno, Brown - all from this year's challenger comps - and says how he would score them and how the judges actually did. He thinks Uno's prerotation should cost him more points. I've never seen it explained this well - they have to get 3 things right to get 3 GOE, then add one or two other aspects to get up to 4 or 5 GOE. It's 18 minutes but he explains the system at the beginning, if you don't want to see him analyze the three skaters at Autumn Classic and Lombardia (Uno).

I hope the judges get the message on Shoma. I love him but if he's cheating the jumps, he ought to be dinged for it.

R228 Same here. Also remember Hanyu got a +1 for his 3A in the short from the Irish judge at aci. Not one of Hanyu's best, but no hand on ice either.

Everyone knows judges turn a blind eye to Uno's awful jumps to the point it's ridiculous. Same with Nathan. He may not have the UR/PR issues like Shoma but he telegraphs his jumps, forgets about preceding steps and then lands them so straight it makes you hurt for his knees and spine, and yet gets high GOEs without fulfilling the required bullet points. Meanwhile Yuzu has to work twice as hard to get the same scores. It's infuriating but at this point I don't know what can be done to change this.

I love Cha's hair, it looks thick and soft. I stan.

R251 Comparing Chen's jumps to Uno's is gross insult to Chen. Uno's jumps ugliness is unparalleled.

At least Chen did us a favor and choked at the Olys. Imagine if he'd won gold with his ugly landings just because he did more of them. Fernandez will have to live with Uno getting away with weird jump technique and torqued-knee landings - he still has only himself to blame for the doubled Salchow that was supposed to be his third, not fourth quad, like the other guys were doing.

Why didn't - or why couldn't Fernandez try a fourth quad? Although I've read in an interview that the jumps were causing him a lot of pain, so maybe that's it. But Hanyu just took pain killers and soldiered on. And it was a 'now or never' moment for Fernandez. He would have got a lot more points by FALLING then popping. He just didn't have the mental power of Hanyu - or even Uno for that matter (most would have fallen apart after falling on an opening quad at the Olys but not our little bulldozer - I still like Uno - it's not his fault the judges cheat)

I remember an interview with Yuzu when he said you know if you're gonna pop when you take off on a jump - but in an actual competition, you can usually force yourself to rotate even when you know you're gonna fall. It probably takes courage, like slamming yourself into a wall or something, but with the judging system, that's what you're supposed to do.

Though I guess Hanyu has popped jumps before - but he didn't let himself do it at the Olympics, even when the jumps were wonky -like towards the end when he screwed up his intended combo and that dicey Lutz. He said the Lutz felt just like the one he fell and injured his ankle on, but he still fought for it, ankle be damned.

That 0.01 between Koshiro and Orzel may be crucial for GP final depending on how others do now

Javier is 3 years older than Yuzu and even if he looked really skinny this past season, he still weights quite a bit more than him. All of this doesn't help you land more quads. It's already quite a fit for him to have been able to land 3 of them in the past in his FS. Yuzu is just pure determination in a twink body. As Machida said he is a mouse that would fight a lion and win. And he probably is a bit of a masochist with how he loves pushing himself and doesn't care for his body until pain becomes really unbearable. That's why one is twice OGM and the other not but that's also why one has been constantly injured for the past quad and the other not.

R255 I always laugh at the guys who call figure skating a girly sport. This is a sport where young men and women may slam at full speed into hard cold ice with no protection and just get up and continue as if nothing happened. Meanwhile all those soccer stars cry for a doctor at the lightest touch and fall on grass.

Yuzuru said:" ...artistry is very much being based on having the correct technique and strong foundation at the core of everything". I couldn't agree more with him on that. You need to build a correct technique first and foremost. Many said Uno had artistry but his skating leaves me cold because of his horrifying jumps.

Actually, fixing jump technique is much more difficult than polishing skating, even impossible for skaters having bad technique on all jumps. If polishing skating skills takes years, reworking jumps could take forever. I have never seen any skaters succeed fixing bad jumps. Take Mao Asada as an example, she was always at a disadvantage because of her jumps, which forced her to spend almost 7 years to rework jumps. Then she struggled a lot. Towards the end of career, her lutz edge was improved but PR and UR issues were still there. I still enjoy her skating though. Her jumps at least didn't look weird like Uno's in real time because she had excellent air position and her programs were much more interesting than Uno's.

Ljubiana turns into worst case scenario for Gogolev.

Hiwatashi and Shimada finish second and third and they pass him along with Gumennik who won. So he is now down in 6th and should rely on Mozalev bombing next week

Orzel must be pissed right now at his .01 off-podium finish.

Shimada is cute. Like if Hanyu had a little brother.

Orzel over Shimada would have pished Shimada below Gogolev in the standings

Matteo Rizzo's 3A had a -3 and a +3

Also his 3F ranged from -3 to +3

Majorov's 4T went from -4 to +1

Lukas Britshgi's 3A also from - 4 to +1 (by same 2 judges of Majorov's)

Oh man, Paige Astrop, the tcc spin coach, needs to start taking attendence in class.

r263 So is the new scoring system better or worse than the old one? Despite the inconsistencies, I think that the difference between Kolyada and Cha would have been greater in favor of Kolyada under the old one.

r260 Which place does Mozaev have to take if Gogo is to make GPF?

R265 If Mozaev ends up 5th, they will tie in points and go to tiebreak (first tie breaker is best position and they are tied again. Seconda tiebreaker is sum of points of the 2 events)

Siao Him Fa needs second place to move above Gogolev. Same for Kishina. They have a third place. 2 third places is 22 points like Gogolev but they would lose the tie-breaker as Gogolev has a win.

r266 Looks unlikely that Gogo will make it then. Someone is going to win that Yerevan event and after I looked at the standings and whoever wins amongst Mozalev, Siao Him Fa, Kishina, Kageyama, will make GPF over Gogo. Even Danielian will if ge scores high enough. So for Gogo to get it, the order in Yerevan would have to be Danielian with low score, Kagiyama, Siao Him Fa/Kishina, Mozalev with low score. Lol. I'm a bit bummed because I actually did want to see Gogo at GPF, but the loss is a valuable life lesson too. I guess only Eteri girls win shit when they're 13.

I don't want Gogo in the final. Someone who bombs that badly at one of his competitions doesn't deserve to make it.

R268 Agreed. And it's too much pressure on the kid anyway.

So there's a possibility no Canadian man will make it to jgpf this year? Harsh. After all that hype, tcc has bombed thus far. Hanyu does his Hanyu thing, so only pleasant surprise has been Cha.

R269 I agree, might turn out to be a blessing for Gogo. Takes the pressure off a little and better to learn these things when the stakes are low.

R270 Orser has been looking more than a little stressed lately. I wonder if he's taken on too much or if he's still just exhausted from the Olympics.

R270. I loved cha after watching him at the Olympics. I felt he would be someone to watch for in the coming seasons. I'm so happy that he is doing well so far.

R272. Orser may have taken on too much. Plus isn't he going back and forth to China? Or am I mistaken here.

I think Gogo's one of the best juniors and I think the Final without him will be a lesser affair than it could be. And frankly, it's mot like others were that stellar. Oh well, I guess it's time for USA vs Russia again.

I agree not making the Final might be a blessing in disguise for Gogo. The kid's so hyped he must be feeling the pressure. Maybe the hype will settle a bit, and he will learn to handle it better thanks to this loss. He'll have enough problems with growing, there's something on the Canadian water that makes the boys tall.

Gogo may be a prodigy at jumping, but when the jumps aren't on, there's nothing else to look at. He's certainly not an artist or a performer. He is far away from being a complete skater. If he had any other coach besides Orser, the delusions about his talent wouldn't be nearly this strong.

[quote]there's something on the Canadian water that makes the boys tall.

Well, there's a plot twist. I thought you were going to say "choke." Are you talking about the Canadian youngsters like Conrad, Nam, Roman and Joseph? They are tall but the past Canadian champs haven't been. Yeah, Gogo is far from a complete skater, but he is really young. Petr looks very young but he's 16. Gogo has a ways to go yet and even his jumps are not guaranteed, but he has lots of time to improve. Orser needs to shut the hell up and give the kid some space without all this expectation and attention.

I'm really glad to see Petr doing well. His JGP debut was back in 2015–2016 and he's bounced around from coach to coach. His FS this time wasn't the best, and he seemed a little tough on himself, but I see a lot of potential.

r275 But he IS a good jumper, and he's got good programs. And frankly, he's not that worse than other men juniors when it comes to interpretation. They don't exactly light the ice. Gogo would at least present a technical challenge. That's why I think GPF without him will be less interesting.

r270 Cha struggled with growth and injuries in his debut season so his progress stalled. Hopefully that's behind him and he can move forward. Interesting fact: Cha's over a year younger than Hiwatashi and Pulkinen. Damn, but the 2015/16 junior circuit was so much better than the current crop.

r276 Yeah, I was thinking about those very Canadian juniors/youngsters. Messing's a shorty, but the young are tall and that's even independent of their ethnic background, which makes me think Gogo might grow tall as well. Has anyone seen his parents?

Nicolas Nadeau is 187 cm tall. Dude should be doing pairs.

Dios mio! Check out Elena Radionova's SP from the Cup of Russia today. Do you think they will pull her from Skate America? It's just a horrorshow, on every level.

Is she breaking any rules? She's got illusion fabric under her black dress and tights - or are you talking about something other than her outfit? Other than the one she fell on, I thought her jumps looked good. Weird music but after hearing Leo yell "Julietttttt" - I mean, it's not that weird. I love Amy Winehouse.

Oh and I see they say Cup of Russia (Rostelecom) but that's not till November 16. Yuzuru scheduled to be there.

R280 Jesus Christ, what was that at the end? What a shit show.

R281 You don't need to know skating rules - use your eyes and ears!!!

Call me crazy but I still don't see what was wrong. There was applause when she finished.

Here's an interview where she talks about the creation of this short program:

EV (Interviewer): Why didn’t you choreograph the programmes with Bourne like a year ago. I know many think she is 'your’ choreographer.

ER: Indeed. I was considering working with Shae-Lynn and was thinking whether I can afford it, but then we talked with Elena Germanovna, considered all and decided this season we should choreograph home. In the end Peter Tchernyshev did both my programmes, and, frankly, am very satisfied with the result. My SP is Emmy Winehouse 'You Know I'm No Good’, the LP - Cinema Paradiso soundtrack. I.e. two completely different programmes. Previously I worked with Tchernyshev on an exhibition number and I loved working with him. Peter is painting with his feet. In figure skating there is the fact you are gliding and making the turns in the direction you are comfortable. Tchernyshev does the opposite – his steps are done such a way you first think no way your leg will go there. I was horrified and thought I will never able to skate it. But I made it. And understood once it works some interesting things come out.

The spins were a mess. She did something weird I've never seen before, I don't know whether it is a legitimate move but it looked ugly.

Hanyu judging Boyang hard for wearing a Rolex.

R287 Those eyes of his!

R280 this is unfortunate. I mean, Radionova is a former world medalist, russian nat'l champion, world junior champ etc., basically a former bright young thing. What happened to her? Even Tuktik, who is older is still doing pretty well. People were excited for this program and to see her come back. WTF?

LOL. I guess the livestream for Japan Open isn't working, but this person is tweeting. So far, Oda (176.95) is beating the youngsters including Javi (157.86). (Nathan hasn't gone yet.)

Shoma wins the splatfast at Japan Open

shoma uno 186.69

nobunari oda 176.95

javier fernandez 157.86

nathan chen 144.96

deniss vasiljevs 129.32

jeremy abbott 124.06

This is the most important thing to come out of Japan Open: Oda did a backcounter 3A.

Someone needs to find a vid for BC3a.

I'm pretty sure Oda did backcounter 3As during ice show practice(s) this past summer, when he and Hanyu were doing Fantasy on Ice. I've developed a real fondness for the guy - he's SO sweet. And more talented than most retired skaters of his age. I hope hope hope he keeps his job as commentator - though maybe he was one of the Japanese with a rich family? Well, in any case, he's so lovable with all that crying and being supportive to everyone.

WTH Nathan Chen? Did he fall on his quads? God he was trounced by Shoma.

Found this at GS (from a Japanese tweeter at the Japan Open) - I used Google Translate on the "last part of tweet"

Nathan CHEN Japan Open

3Lo、4Lz fall、3F3T、3A、CCSp、StSq (latter half): 4T、4T＋REP fall、4S fall、ChSq？、FCCoSp、CCoSp

Last part of tweet: Beginning 4Lo (It is aimed, is not it?) Beautiful body stuff.

R273 lol gogolev is a good skater, at the age of 13, he's already better than bunch of so-called top seniors. You can dislike his programs, his style but you can't deny his talents.

Oda has always been good. Just that he would usually crumble in major competitions. He is basically the opposite of Yuzu. He should be the one trying to unretire not Takahashi. And even that being only Japan Open, I hope it's a wake up call for Javi. He needs to go back to training seriously if he wants a chance to win Europeans. But with all the shows and activities he has programmed for the next 3 months, I'm not sure how he will manage.

R287 He was also judging Nathan when he was wearing short shorts at the draw for the sp in either 4cc or World's 2017, even though Yuzu himself sometimes also wears those. I love when he is being a judgmental hypocritcal bitch like this. It's hilarious. Like judging Boyang for his Rolex but owning golden earphones with wings on them worth more 1500 dollars. Lol.

Japan Open

1. #AlinaZagitova (RUS) - 159.18

2. #KaoriSakamoto (JPN) - 130.28

3. #SatokoMiyahara (JPN) - 127.99

4. #BradieTennell (USA) - 126.86

5. #MariahBell (USA) - 120.57

6. #MariaSotskova (RUS) - 111.78

From the score it looks lik Zag's back in form.

There was a bird in the arena earlier at Finland Trophy. Stepanova/Bukin were stopped midway of the program as confetti were falling from the sky

Alina scored higher than Javier and Nathan.

So Japan open is over?Europe won? How that works?

Radionova had grown fast during 2014-2015 season, she was still quite consistent then and medaled at all competitions she entered. But she continued growing, got taller, hip and shoulders got broader. She started going downhill since 15-16 season, postures and jumps got worse, was struggling with consistence. After that she never went back in form. That's why I'm still skeptical about Zagitova, she has grown 7cm since Olympics.

Oda Nobunari went clean with 1 quad and 3As. TES was up to 92. How he can keep this technical content after retiring 4 years ?

R297 Did you notice the slight smile on Shoma's face after Yuzu said whatever to him? lol

I don't understand why Javi wants to do another Europeans. No one gives a shit about that competition anymore. Glad to hear that Oda did so well.

r304 I guess Europeans do? "European Champion" has quite a ring to it, and only FS fans know it doesn't mean as much as it used to.

R305 But what if Javi doesn't win this time?

R300 Love it! The Skating Gods must still be pissed at Brian & Raf for trashing Eteri and her skaters. Not surprised that Raf would do that but surprised Brian did given his own 13 year old jumping machine.

Stream form Finlandia stopped, they changed it to some Russia Cup, fantastic

Just watched Nathan's skate. Shockingly bad. Ugly program, ugly costume, seriously ugly hair. And one ugly skate. Does he always skate that hunched over?

[quote]I don't understand why Javi wants to do another Europeans. No one gives a shit about that competition anymore. Glad to hear that Oda did so well.

Maybe in your biased little North American mind, but I love Europeans, even more than Worlds. No fugly overscored Shoma, no annoying American skaters...bliss!

For javi’s case I think he not only want to win the European title again, but also have a chance to do one last skate for his fans as most of them weren’t at pyeongchang.

Link to videos for Japan Open skates

R304 Even if the competition isn't what it used to be anymore, it still sounds better a title than 4CC or Asian Winter games champion. As R305 said only FS know that nowadays the field is weak and the title mostly meaningless. For everyone else the fact that he is 6 times European champion sounds impressive.

4 Continents are still the foster child that nobody pay too much attention to compared to Euros.

Asian Winter Games have the same importance of the Golden Bear of Zagreb (not sure why everything is "Golden" in Croatian Figure Skating)

I don't think Nathan is into it anymore. I want someone to outright ask him do you like figure skating or no?

Do we have protocols from Japan Open? I know it is basically a glorified exhibition but they usually produce the sheet.

The only FS titles that mean much to most people anymore are the Olympics and then, to a much lesser extent, Worlds. I seriously doubt figure skating fans in Spain care or will remember for very long whether Javi has one additional European title when he already has six. I just hope that, if he does do Europeans, that he wins it again so he can end his competitive career on a high note. And that he doesn't do any permanent damage to his body prepping for it.

R314 What struck me about Nathan was that his entire skate looked horrible. It wasn't just his jumps that were a problem. He looked severely undertrained. Jason may not have had the jumps at the Autumn Classic but at least he could move like an elite skater around the ice.

Here is Tursy's Finlandia SP. Her PCS is finally going up and I was impressed with how her new coaches have gotten her to slow down instead of frantically rushing through her programs. I'm finally starting to enjoy her skating.

[R314] Nathan has never looked like he enjoys skating. It's all about duty to the family.

r319 The family chose a really ungrateful sport. No money in it unless you're a multiple winner and sometimes not even then.

Finlandia Trophy stream is back.

how the hell Virtanen got -6 deduction? Well, Newberry has a -4

Jesus, Javi saves a jump like nobody else. He was practically kneeling on the ice on some of those JO landings.

protocol from Japan Open

First 4 Quads by Shoma called UR

Chen's 4Lz and second 4T also UR

One jump downgraded to Sakamoto. And 2 edge calls

3 URs called to Myahara

3 URs also for Tennell

2 for Sotskova

R325 I haven't seen her skate but the 2 edge calls for Sakamoto are interesting. That's not usually an issue with her.

All of Miyahara's jumps were URed but only 3 of them were called ? She should have scored around 120pts.

Shoma gets ur in japan???hahaha

Controller at Japan Open was Fabio Bianchetti, chair of ISU Technical Committee

Specialists were Evelyn Rossoukhi-Schneider from Austria (who also called Men and Pairs at Lombardia and Men and Ladies at Autumn Classic) and Todd Sand from USA (pairs world medalist in 1991-1995-1996)

R327 Same with Shoma. These 2 could be jumping singles and judges would still pretend they saw triples and quads.

Mr. Magoo could see that Nathan's plan to keep competing while studying at Yale wasn't going to work out too well. Cut your losses, kid, and just quietly bow out before you wreck your body and embarrass yourself further.

R329 Is Fabio related to Sonia Bianchetti?

R329 Her son

R333 Thank you. That's hilarious. Given that she's known for her criticism of ISU corruption and lack of transparency, dinner conversations must be interesting. I don't know anything about his track record so I'm not trying to shade him.

Aliev drops behind Kvitalashvili and Nadeau

Cha skating now

juuuuulieeeet

big random fall in the spin. probably invalid element

he fell on a jump earlier. and popped one into a double

he still goes into the lead thanks to PCS (Kvitelashvili is weak in PCS for this level)

Skaters, practice your spins a little bit more please.

Kolyada: problematic landing for the quad. 3Lz was very high. Pop towards the end. He looks very tired

R337 new TCC version of a sit spin.

165 FS. 250 overall. He wins by 11 points

Kolyada looked off here, especially in the 2nd half where all his jumps looked laboured and he had a visible lack of speed. And I can't help but compare with Alina's energy and sheer happiness in skating displayed during her FS at Japan Open. She makes Carmen look fresh and fun.

And Kolyada's program is pretty empty. A lot of crossovers and preparations to the jumps and not much going on. Again compare that to how packed Alina's fs is with all the transitions and difficult entries. She deserves high scores. I understand people feeling frustrated with how generous the judges are towards her but tbh it bothers me much less in her case than in Shoma's or Satoko's case because I at least can see part of the reason why while watching her skate.

Mr Hans-Ulrich Luethi from Switzerland gave out a nice +4 to Kolyada's 4T

Where did he see the good landing?

Alinas FS fll of tansistions and difficult entries? i missed em.

Rizzo had some laces of the trousers (which basically tied them to his ankle) that detached themselves during the program and he had to rip them off and put them in his pocket between one jump and the other (it's between first and second jump)

Hilarious

Javi looking annoyed at Alina's scores. Fuck you Javi. Maybe go back to training seriously and you won't end up being beaten by a 16 years old girl again.

Dont compare scores beetwen mena and women. Whats more , men have harder layout

One of the skaters at Finland Trophy whose total score is at the same level of retired by 4 years Oda's FS score was online on Grindr this morning. I guess everyone has his own priorities.

Such bad luck, Matteo. Though the costume is very cool despite being boring black.

I can't prevent myself from thinking of Plushenko when watching Kolyada, I even don't watch much of Plushenko's skating to the point I can relate any skaters to him but Kolyada's similar music + unmistakable Russian style made it impossible not to think of him.

Technically she didn't beat him because they weren't competing against each other R349

R351 this news would be more intriguing if the skater in question were just about anyone else in Finland.

Just watched Cha's program. I like it and I like his skating--so much more enjoyable to watch than Nathan. And that fall out of the spin at the end was hilarious--glad to see Brian and him laughing it off in the K&C.

Watching this interview of Plushenko, his wife Yana and their son Sasha on a famous Russian talk show and Jesus that woman is awful and you can see the kid is afraid of her. He is constantly leaning towards his dad and engaging with him whereas he doesn't turn towards her unless called.

R51 R55 who's this about?

R358 Hanyu

R358 did you mean to reference r351 and r355 instead? If so, then Sondre.

I think Shoma is confused as to what a "C" is supposed to look like. YMGA

ABOUT KOLYADA AND OTHER “OVERSCORED” SKATERS:

R248 I don’t understand how Kolyada skates like a girl. Of the current top men, I think Kolyada skates with the most machismo.

R239 It’s the purity of technique. His programs and consistency are shit, but he has the second most complete package: clean and strong edges, fast spins, good body line and strong posture, big and beautiful jumps with correct technique when he actually manages to not fall

R241 I think the judges love Tarasova/Morozov for the same reason they love Kolyada.

Alina and Chen - we all know that the PCS scores follow the tech no matter how the system is supposed to work. I personally think it’s an overreaction to the P. Chan world championship disasters. And Alina does have a lot of content in her programs even if it’s not particularly attractive.

Uno - jump flaws are harder to see in real time and I would say his skating is pretty complete as well. The whole is comparable to Kolyada, it’s just that instead of shitty programs (I like Uno’s anyway) he has shitty jump take-offs. For whatever reason, judges have never penalized take-offs that much unless it’s Sarah Hughes level (and Sarah still ended up an Olympic champ). I think fans pre-judge his landings a lot. If you analyze them individually, they’re often good and he lands with speed and good position. It’s just that when he lands poorly, they’re quite jarring so that’s what you remember.

R212 I respect Tarasova/Morozov for trying to grow as “artists” but sometimes you just need to go with your strengths. I think they just need to take the P. Chan route with their programs: understand what you’re good at and just beat that horse to death. Their short program last year was fantastic. They’re classical skaters. Nothing wrong with that.

ABOUT CHA

R220 r227 I think the supposed score boosts have more to do with Fed support than Orser. I don’t get why the Korean fed doesn’ give a shit about Cha - really? don’t even bother to send a judge and turn down a Grand Prix event?

R225 R226 r234 I agree. Cha’s programs are pretty juvenile and he skates through the music. But we all know that the hidden PCS score is reputation - if he can string more good skates together his PCS will rise.

ABOUT TSL AND SCORING SYSTEM:

R249 I take anything said on TSL with a grain of salt. Like DL, I just see it as entertainment rather than a font of information. I think that because they’re so popular and know some semi-famous people, fans sometimes forget that it’s essentially just a fan account. Their technical expertise isn’t any greater than anyone else who reads the ISU communication, and in Jonathon’s case, even less - anyone else remember that time that they said Nathan, Shoma, and Yuzuru all deserved the same PCS scores? That being said, I think that particular video is mostly well done though I wish he emphasized the importance of the first 3 bullets more and Dave is overly generous with the “height and length” bullet. Not sure if he mentioned it, but it’s supposed to be “very” good height and length and he was giving the bullet to anyone who doesn’t have Satoko sized jumps. But it made me more curious about the scoring myself. I think I’ll try it out if I find the time - I suspect my scores will be lower than TSL or the judges across the board.

R263 I haven’t really studied the competition scoring yet so can’t comment on individual instances but I spent quite a bit of time during the summer learning how it works in theory. There’s a couple ambiguities in the guidelines that can justifiably cause wild swings in the scores. I would hope that the actual judges got training that would clear these up but assuming the judges are properly trained, especially in smaller competitions, seems foolish.

For example, in the jumps, the guidelines say you’re supposed to add up the positive aspects then subtract for the negative. However, in the positives, you’re not supposed to give above +3 if the first 3 bullets aren’t fulfilled. It’s possible to fulfill more than 3 positive bullets without hitting the first 3. Do they mean only the “final” score isn’t supposed to be above +3 or are you supposed to start at +3 then subtract the negatives? I tried it both ways and it makes a huge difference in the scores.

Another ambiguity in the jump scoring is what exactly does “effortless” mean? In my strictest interpretation of the guidelines, I think of +4 as essentially a perfect, butter smooth jump and +5 as a perfect jump with an added feature. Dave seems to interpret it to simply mean that the skater doesn’t have to fight for the jump in any way.

I can even “kind of” understand why the Irish judge only gave Hanyu +1 for his axel. If he interpreted the guidelines very strictly and is subtracting from a GOE base of +3 then deducting -2 for weak landing (range of deduction of -1 to -3).

R265 I haven’t looked closely at Kolyada vs Cha, but the gap in scoring in new system vs old system is highly dependent on GOE levels. The actual increase to your score is smaller from level to level but because there are more levels, there is more potential for a bigger score.

e.g. a +3 GOE for a 3 lutz in the old system nets you 8.1 points but a +5 GOE nets you 8.85. +1 GOE in the old system nets you 6.7 points but a +2 GOE in the new system nets you only 6.36 points. In sum, if you’re GOE’s are generally on the higher end of the scale, the gap in scoring is going to be bigger in comparison to skaters with middle or low GOE’s. If you generally get less than +2 in the new system, the scores are generally going to be smaller than with the old system. Kolyada has superior technique when he’s not sliding on his ass so the new system favors him - although major errors are much harsher in the new system.

ABOUT JAPAN OPEN AND NATHAN

R311 Thanks for the link. This is the competition I was most excited to see this weekend and couldn’t find Nobu’s program on youtube. So happy to see Nobu kick the youngsters’ asses. None of the elements were particularly great and Shoma beat him, but for him to even be competitive with the reigning world champion and Olympic medalists is amazing! And unlike everyone else, his personality shines through and his performance was fun! I don’t care if it is early season, Nathan and Javi should be embarrassed that someone 4 years retired and never having won a world or Olympic medal trounced them (Not to mention Alina)

I love how they show the levels the skaters got for each of the elements in the end. I’m a terrible judge of levels. It’s the one part of the scoring I don’t look that closely at because I know that I won’t be able to see it anyway.

R324 Wow. Scores are pretty generous for all the top skaters. Is judge 3 American? I wasn’t as outraged by Hanyu’s scores as everyone else because his skates were sloppy and I can see why he got the scores he got, but when you compare with these score sheets I’m getting pissed. I don’t care if it is just individual judge scores but WTF is with any of these jumps getting 5’s !?!?!

R294 I swear, I like Nathan - I’m the one that thinks he’s good looking and traumatized you guys with the Nathan ass shot - but after all the “he woulda won the Olympics if not for the short” and “future greatest ever” talk, seeing him bomb like that made me experience a level of schadenfreude that surprised even me.

He looked exceptionally sloppy and the costume doesn’t help dissuade that perception. His carriage seems to have gotten worse. On the positive side, it looks like he’s attempting actual transitions in this program. But last year, he started the season with transitions then dropped them when it was clear he couldn’t manage both transitions and jumps - Of course, his PCS went up anyway. I imagine it will be similar this year - watch as he establishes a reputation for attempting artistry then having the program get emptier as his PCS get higher.

R314 I’ve also always wondered how much Nathan enjoyed skating. I think he mentioned looking up to Plushenko when asked directly to talk about him but I don’t recall him ever talking about his skating idols. It makes me think that he wasn’t someone who really enjoyed watching it when growing up. But I felt similarly to Yuna Kim and it didn’t stop her from being one of the greatest ever.

In comparison, Hanyu and Plushenko exude a passion for the sport and Nobu and Boyang seem to bubble with joy when they skate. Shoma seems rather blase in his attitude as well, but I think that’s just his personality - with him, we at least know that he was a fan of the sport and you can see his influences in the way he skates. I don’t see any influences in Nathan’s skating - just jump, hunch, sloppy spin, jump, sloppy arm wave, hunch, jump… wait, maybe Sarah Hughes was his idol.

ABOUT FINLANDIA R343 Once again, I’m the oddball. Yes, it’s Carmen, and the jumps aren’t great but Kolyada’s performance level is so improved since the Test Skates. His movements are so much more authoritative and I’m starting to think the music actually suits him really well. I didn’t like this program at all at the test skate but I liked it here.

Ouch, for Aliev. I want him to do well - his movement kind of reminds me of Johnny Weir. Dunno, maybe that’s why I think he pings - but according to you fine folks my gaydar is off (I’m the one giving Hanyu 10% chance of straight). I knew Aliev was vulnerable and the new system isn’t good for him, but I’m surprised that he did that poorly. That weird running in place choreography in the beginning needs to go - it looks so awkward - and his movements are still a bit sloppy.

Cha stalks his jumps and his expression is lacking quite a bit but for 16 he’s progressing nicely. Not a great performance but it’s good to see him hanging with the big boys now - even with mistakes he’s medaling. What’s with the TCC spins? I don’t remember Hanyu ever being a bad spinner (and I don’t mean relative to the rest of his skating - I mean they were just plain bad at AC) and now Cha falls on his.

RANDOM THOUGHTS

R304 r310 r312 If he wins Europeans this year, he ties with Plushenko for the most ever. Even if Europeans isn’t all that prestigious, his name is still going to be mentioned alongside one of the greatest ever for many years to come. That’s still meaninful.

In a similar vein, I often think that P. Chan better hope that Gogolev doesn’t win Olympics because, as of now, he will still be relevant in skating talk every time the Canadian curse gets brought up. As soon as Canada has a men’s OGM, almost no one’s going to remember him anymore.

R245 Plushenko was 27 at Vancouver and his skating has already gone downhill significantly. Interesting that even with that extremely watered down program, his team event score was still higher than the bronze medalist’s in the singles event. But I think that speaks to how poor that competition was more than anything. I wish he was able to skate the singles event just to see how he would have skated in a real competition.

I didn’t follow Nobu’s competitive career that closely. Is he actually better than ever at the age of 31? At one point, I heard he even had a 4 lutz post retirement. If he skates like that, I could see him still getting bronze at nationals. Bychenko was the best he’s ever been last year. I don’t like Bychenko’s skating, but last year was quite the feel good story for him to do so well so I hope that it’s just early season rust. It’s fun seeing the geriatrics keep improving. I hope Carolina keeps going until the next Olympics and Aliona pops in with another new partner to show the pairs how to do it.

MORE RANDOM THOUGHTS

R276 I’m still not convinced Orser’s all that great a coach. There are so many coaches at TCC - how do we know how much is Orser and how much is them? His major success stories had their foundations built by someone else. At best, he’s proven himself to be a finishing coach but a lot of his skaters have presenation issues.

Gogolev is the first prominent skater that TCC has built from scratch and considering that he’s mainly jumps, it seems credit should go to Ghislain more than anyone. (did Nam start at TCC - either way, he flamed out so doesn’t matter). Javi is the only success story where they managed to turn a flagging career around - but that’s alongside multiple careers that went nowhere under TCC. Orser doesn’t even do a very good job as the face of the program - he’s doing a real disservice to Gogolev by hyping him up so much before he’s accomplished anything. Way to put a bunch of unnecessary pressure on him, especially at a time when Canadian skating is experiencing one of it’s biggest dearths. And bad mouthing Eteri only puts extra pressure on TCC to perform - there better be success at worlds because right now Eteri is embarrassing him (btw, in Hanyu’s case, anything less than a win is a fail in the TCC vs. Eteri scoresheet).

R229 since when do we care about being mean on this forum? You’re right on the money.

R357 I have no idea what they’re saying but that’s a cute video. Judging by body language, Plush and Sasha do seem to have a pretty warm relationship in spite of the talk about the harshness of Plush’s child rearing.

r223 r225 That seems to be the logical conclusion. Most of the active posters are native English speakers so the likelihood is that they live in countries where the timing for the competitions isn’t great. And as someone upthread said when Tantrum Thrower was doing his thing, people are more likely to invest time into this on the weekend. I’m the perpetrator of the Machida ass photo bomb - That day I went to class 4 hours, went to work 11 hours + 1 hour for commute. I can read the forum throughout the day and it only takes a few minutes to post pictures and have a conversation about ass. On those days I don’t have time to spend hours watching and commenting on competitions. Most days I just want to relax with fluff. When I have time, I write endless essays about the sport with Zhou-esque levels of pretention that rival any Golden Scat frau.

For those who haven’t blocked me yet, I reward you with some ass

Correction - the difference in points between old system vs. new varies from element since the added GOE value is based on percentage rather than a set value. In the old system, all the quads except axel only got +1 point for each level. In the new system, it's a 10% increase in value per level. So all the GOE points for higher value quads are actually worth more than in the old system.

R367 Why would anyone block you? I love these essays. +5 for the gratuitous ass shot. Haven't had a chance to watch the programs yet so thanks for the preview.

[quote] Scores are pretty generous for all the top skaters. Is judge 3 American?

Judge 3 is Ms Wei She from China

The oder is

1: USA 2: Taiwan 3: China 4: Spain 5: Poland 6: Japan 7: Russia 8: Canada 9: Australia

It's not that I don't appreciate your recaps because I do but my lizard brain zeroed on the ass shot and got me thinking that the reason there's so many great pictures of his ass (besides of course the constant documentation of his existence) is because he always finds time to bend down and push his ass out.

R363 [quote] There’s a couple ambiguities in the guidelines that can justifiably cause wild swings in the scores. I would hope that the actual judges got training that would clear these up but assuming the judges are properly trained, especially in smaller competitions, seems foolish

Some of these judges (the ones with ISU level qualification) judging "minor" competitions could potentially judge at Worlds next year. All of them potentially can judge at GPs (but we know how it usually works and those from countries without a skater assigned to GPs won't be called). So it would be better if they would be less confused than us.

There has been a seminar about the new system this summer and each Fed could send 2 (IIRC) judges. And then they should have conducted a similar seminar for other judges in their own country. I believe many judges are using these first competitions to adjust themselves and the roundtable discussions after each events (especially with a good referee guiding them) will probably help them to have clearer ideas . So I hope all judges who will get major events later in the season would serve in the Challengers.

They have promoted some judges last week (exam was during Nebelhorn): 1 each from Canada, Taiwan, Finland, Germany, South Korea and USA in Single/Pairs and 1 each from China, Germany, Russia, Ukraine and 2 from USA in Ice Dance

Yuzuru's PCS at ACI was correct. He was sloppy, all of moves lacked of extensions and looked unfinished. It's one of his weakness imo, once he loses focus, he also loses ability to control movements and starts to skate instinctively, his skating immediately gets sloppy. Kolyada and Shoma are actually better at controlling body, especially upper body, than him.

r373 Mmmm. But his programs actually looked like programs. Kolyada and Uno's not so much, especially if they fuck them up. Which they did.

One more clarification - I meant Plush was 27 at Vancouver but was referencing the team event at Sochi when he was 31. Even more impressive that he was still medal competitive.

r369 Tantrum Thrower said he blocked DaiTroll and a few more "pests". Considering I was the one that triggered him this time around, I assume I'm one of the pests. That, and some people don't like posts more than a few lines long.

r370 Damn. We can't even blame national bias - that judge was straight up incompetent. I can normally see "some" reason for the scoring but I can't even fathom what that judge was thinking. But then J6 only gave -4 for Nathan's fall on 4 sal - Some skaters deserve to get better than -5 for a fall, but Nathan isn't one of them.

r372 That's one of the reasons I don't take these early competitions too seriously. Hopefully the judging becomes more consistent and not so extremely out of line with the guidelines in the competitions that matter. I'm not quite as up in arms as a lot of people because right now I see these smaller competitions as practice for both judges and skaters.

r373 I probably would have given him a couple points higher in his PCS because his program was jam packed with difficult transitions and the attention to detail was so far superior to Kolyada or Uno but I actually agree with Uno getting a higher overall SP score. His skating was more polished and his elements performed with more sureness than Hanyu's and all the little mistakes in Hanyu's elements did detract from the overall impression of the programs. I thought his performance of the choreography in Origin was actually really strong and what impressed me was that the program commanded my attention from beginning to end - one of my first thoughts at the end was that it had both a completeness to the artistry and it felt so short. It wasn't nearly the best he can do and there were lapses in performance here and there, but I don't think he reverted to noodle. On the other hand, I think he actually got over scored on the spins so my prediction is that when I score the programs myself they will be lower than what he got.

Youtube segued from Nobu to Dai's Blues for Klook. Most of today's programs look so sad in comparison. I don't expect Dai to be competitive technically but I hope his performance can be as good as his competitive days. Looking forward to Sunday. Judging at JPN Open was a farce but I still give all the credit in the world to long-retired-with-4-kids-and-full-time-non-skating-career Nobu for having the 3rd highest FS score so far his year - maybe Dai can pull off something similar. I would love to see him in an international competition.

I'm loving all the essays - from our 10% straight Hanyu poster and all the others I can't idenitfy by posting style, which I don't bother with much anyway - it's just great reading!

Someone way upthread wondered how Tarasova could say Kolyada skated like a girl. (I agree he has a macho style, for skating anyway). What she actually said, I'm pretty sure, is he skated a ladies' program - while the "real manly men" like Hanyu, Uno, Chen, Zhou, put many more quads in their programs. (she didn't say 'real manly men' - that was me being silly - I have to be careful because some people on here have been so literal that I fear any kind of hyperbole or joking.) Oh well, we're still standing! Despite the temper tantrummer - love that :)

And she didn't just out and out call Aliev fat - she just commented on what a great thing Javi did when he lost a bunch of weight all of a sudden, and that it might help Aliev's consistency in jumping if he would follow Javi's example. Which is kinda calling him fat - but I think is more like saying uber-quadsters might need to be willowy thin like Hanyu, Jin, and Chen. Aliev is not fat but he's a bit tall and stocky, compared to those three. Shoma may can get away with it being so short - there was a Russian judge who predicted the male skaters would get shorter as quads become more a requirement (Chen is 5'5, Uno 5'3, Messing 5'4 - maybe she's right - Javi said his body could hardy take them anymore and he's only 5'8, same height as Hanyu but not as light).

Anyway, it's more fun to say Tarasova said Kolyada skated like a girl and Aliev was too fat - but it was more nuanced - I remember when the interview came out.

Oh and I read on one of the message boards I think that South Korea was offered a judges' spot at Finlandia and turned it down (despite Cha being there!) and Orser really was angry that Korea wouldn't send Cha to worlds. I don't know what's going on there. Koreans can be hard to figure out imo - ditto the Chinese flipping out and cancelling Cup of China due to being pissed off about speed skating or some such.

Short track speed skating makes Koreans INSANE (they cheat like nobody's business but that's another sport...) - maybe that's somehow related to their post -Olys refusal to take Cup of China, despite surely having a rink ready just after the Olympics -- and also being disinterested in Cha - he's a Canadian now - maybe they are still pissed at Orser about Yuna Kim and him meeting with Mao and talking trash about her and her mummy later or whatever that ugliness was that Orser couldn't keep his trap shut about. It was bad enough to make Adam Rippon not want to work with him anymore - he switched to Ghislain for a while then left, so something weird must have gone down.

And why does Orser get so much more credit than Tracy. We can see her effect - the skating skills. Ghislain does jumps, Paige does (or lately, doesn't) do spins. I guess Orser is a kind of mastermind but he hasn't exactly masterminded Rippon, Tursy, Nam, Phan, Shingo, and Orzel's improving I guess but not a success story yet. Cha's probably as good a hope as Gogo - maybe he's realizing that now - but then, Gogo reps Canada so this could be Orser finally getting past the ghosts of his own past, letting the motherland down.

[quote] Oh and I read on one of the message boards I think that South Korea was offered a judges' spot at Finlandia and turned it down (despite Cha being there!)

All Federations with a skater entered at Finlandia Trophy were offered to nominate a judge. Only if more judges are nominated than slots on the panels, the organizers will have a draw between them But South Korea didn't have any judge in other disciplines either. So likely they didn't nominate any. The Men panel could have been too crowded but there was room in the Ladies one

Korea sent a judge to JGP this week

But no Korean judge at Autumn Classic either

They have 10 judges. So not 1-2 who may not be always available because of work or personal reasons

OMG. Why, Dai???!!! I hope the program makes up for this.

I mean... you can't say he never had questionable costumes...

or questionable hair

Goddammit Mr. Takahashi, I said no bunched up fabric!!!!¡¡¡¡¡

What time is Dai skating?

It doesn't matter if the Korean judge is there for Cha (neither a Japanese judge for a rising JPN skater imo) since they don't cheat as much as other judges and may even drag their skater's average down. China is trying (and failing) at the scores game but Korea doesn't seem willing to play. Whether they're there or not, they just hurt their own skater's scores by trying to be unbiased in a biased system.

Top 5 worst figure skating costumes: 5. Yuzuru Hanyu's white suit 4. Nathan Chen's surfing suit 3. Shoma Uno's Peter Pan blouse 2. Keegan Messing's grandpa vest 1. Daisuke Takahashi's hobo rags

Meh. Hanyu's whites were loved by many.

What's the Uno peper pan blouse?

Thanks R311 - I'll get to the others but I was anxious to see Nathan Chen. What a disaster. But I kept thinking he looked so different. Thinner. I thought taller until I saw him sitting with Bradie and Mariah and he looked shorter than Bradie, sitting on the couch, so I'd be surprised if he was much taller than his 5'5" from last year.

Going to Yale must be a shock to the system. Did he homeschool or go to a regular or elite high school, with high standards? I know he's very smart, but the whole social part, and participating in class, etc., plus bearing the pressure of being a celebrity - it's bound to be a psychological shock, especially if he homeschooled. It must be very stressful - not to mention the huge time difference between Connecticut and Japan.

And he only just got there. What possessed him to pick a uni on the other side of the country when going to UCLA would have been a perfectly fine choice, especially if his eventual dream is med school or grad school - like who cares where your undergrad is when you can transfer later (after 2020 Olympics). Staying with your coach, if you cared about your skating, seems to me to be such a obvious choice.

That was just sad. It was sweet seeing Bradie and Mariah (and Jeremy?) trying to be kind. And Alina outscored Nathan? or was that just Javi? Oh boy. Camden Pulkinen might be having an exciting evening (or bittersweet, if he's Nathan's friend) - trying not to be too catty here.

Javi outscored Nathan and Alina outscored both of them.

I thought it was pretty obvious Nathan doesn't love skating all that much, so I don't get why the surprise about his form this weekend once he has to balance his skating and studies. From hereon what he does is actually what matters most though. If he doesn't take it more seriously then that is that. BUT tbh I also think this is an overreaction much like the reaction after Med and Alina's disastrous test skates. Alina rose from there and at ACI Med had a program.

Plenty of people go from high school and college and it doesn't always translate to being a shock to the system. Lots of people were not in their time zones either in Japan. A lot of people just have off days, it doesn't have to be a doomsday scenario or have a tragic backstory. Maybe Nathan wanted to go to a particular college for reasons other than "close to home"?

Nathan graduated from an online high school, so yes, he was basically homeschooled (online high schools let you set your own pace, you can go through classes as quickly or slowly as you need to, no interaction with other students and very little to no interaction with the instructor). I'm sure it's a shock to go from a situation where you structure school around your training to something that's the complete opposite, even setting aside questions of rigor and the difficulty of training so far away from your coach.

That said, maybe people are just overreacting to one bad skate at the beginning of the season. Looks-wise, I actually thought he looked rather good with the new hair. The skate itself was sloppy and lethargic. I can see why people think Nathan looks miserable on ice and doesn't enjoy skating (I think he just has that kind of perpetually glum resting face). I think the program itself has potential though.

R389 I think this is the Peter Pan blouse R 387 was talking about. It's especially hideous up close.

Machida's note to fans upon retiring linked below. An excerpt:

[quote]Everyone’s feelings of regret regarding my retirement have been transmitted to me to the point of pain. However, “body” and “time” are limited. Above all, the “body” of a skater is fleeting, its destiny burdened to be consumed like the flash of a meteor instead of burning in the fiery flames of the force of life. I am proud that so far, I have been able to deliver “figure skating in its integral art” with the abilities of my own body, all the while receiving the help of many people.

He still manages to not sound as insufferable as Zhou.

R397 I agree! I was trying to figure out what the difference is, but I'm not sure. Maybe 1) he's not an insufferable cunt bigot (that we know of) like Vincent; 2) it's all part of his philosopher persona - the way he comes off during interviews, his programs, his studies, so it seems sincere rather than affected. In any case, I find him truly entertaining rather than ironically entertaining/annoying like Vincent.

Yikes! I watched nathan Chan's fs. It was pretty bad. School must be overwhelming him.

Well I'll leave you all with this beautiful ass photo

R385 Dai is skating at 15:44 JST

Dai's won the short at Kinki (surprise!) . Skated clean 3A, 3F3T / 3Lz.

TSSt77.28/TES 37.71/PCS 39.57t

Probably not the PCS he's used to, but not a bad start. I think there's a broadcast tomorrow.

Poor Kazuki, he was so promising at WC 2018 and this season he bombs in Lombardia and now can't beat a (former) retiree.

I was going to put this on the Figure Skating general thread and thank God I caught myself - but is there anybody to confirm these data points? BTW, great result for Dai but I can't imagine he's planning to go to Beijing in four years... So:

I wonder if Dai will go back to broadcasting. He had a show - someone who really knows please correct me - but I think he was interviewing special people, one per episode? But he sort of abruptly quit and said that it was a tough world and he wasn't cut out for it (I don't know if he meant episodic tv series work - or all broadcasting and commentating in general.) And I wonder if it's true what was reported, at least on Twitter if that counts as reported: that he was told to interview Hanyu, refused, the Japanese tv network had to scramble to get someone else to interview Hanyu; and also on Dai's Instagram, he put selfies of himself with all the Japanese skaters with one notable exception: Hanyu

I don't mean to stir up trouble - I'm just wondering if all that is even true. In the Olympics Channel interview, when asked to describe skaters with one word, he seemed perfectly happy to call Hanyu "king" (with a smile I think) ALTHOUGH he said it was Nathan Chen he was studying for quad technique (so why not Hanyu who has the better technique?) and he also rather rudely scheduled his coming-back-to-skating press conference the very night before Hanyu received that special honor from Shinzo Abe.

Well, I guess I am stirring up trouble, but I can't get all that out of my mind. Along with Patrick Chan admitting in his bio or something that he really did hate Hanyu at one time.

Maybe like Nathan, Kazuki's just having a slow start? He did so well at Worlds. Amazingly well. I think of him as a kid though he's 20? Wonder if he'll be another iffy competitor for Japan, like Keiji and Mura? Seems like Machida was pretty great for a while but then petered out. Sota Yamamoto has been a real disappointment too, since fracturing his ankle he can't seem to manage a come-back. Sad.

I have such a soft spot for vasiljevs, which I admit is probably mostly due to his being under lambiel's tutelage and their... interesting relationship. but I've been waiting for him to have a really shining season, and now I'm worried he's actually just not as good as I want him to be. obviously not fair to pass complete judgment after his first skate of the season, but his performance at the japan open just left so much to be desired. I mean, aside from the jumps that went terribly, the program itself just felt so uninspired and totally not playing to his strengths--which his last free program, Micheal Bublé withstanding, did more. this just leaves me baffled at lambiel, like, what are you doing with your so called protégé?

r403 We talked about it a few threads ago, and everything is just supposition. Hanyu fans claim Takahashi refused to interview Hanyu, Takahashi fans claim Hanyu refused to be interviewed by Takahashi. The rumor seems to have gone like this: Fact, Hanyu was not interviwed by Takahashi. Fact, Takahashi stopped doing tv work. Conclusion, omg Takahashi refused to interview Hanyu which made the tv network mad and they fired him.

R403 I don’t quite think that rumor stands (that Dai was fired by Fuji because he refused to interview Hanyu), look at who’s doing all the live broadcast of Dai’s return skate at the Kinki regional this weekend? Fuji! IMO Fuji still support Dai at full force. As for why Hanyu was not interviewed by Dai, who knows. But one thing for sure, most of the Hanyu and Dai fans probably are satisfied that they didn’t cross path, so it’s a win-win situation for all.

[quote]I have such a soft spot for vasiljevs, which I admit is probably mostly due to his being under lambiel's tutelage and their... interesting relationship. but I've been waiting for him to have a really shining season, and now I'm worried he's actually just not as good as I want him to be. obviously not fair to pass complete judgment after his first skate of the season, but his performance at the japan open just left so much to be desired. I mean, aside from the jumps that went terribly, the program itself just felt so uninspired and totally not playing to his strengths--which his last free program, Micheal Bublé withstanding, did more. this just leaves me baffled at lambiel, like, what are you doing with your so called protégé?

Everyone kept bitching about how he is a Lambiel clone, so I understand why he wanted to try something different. He used another choreographer (Japanese guy, forgot his name) and he's very interested in Japan and history, so I get it. I'm not hugely impressed by the program either, but I'm sure it will be better when it's polished. I hope the SP will be more in his typical style.

Wow, Shcherbakova landed a 4lz and a 4lz combo in competition.

One of them is obviusly UR, no to mention that "beautiful" take off and 3 and 1/4 rotation

R405 as a Deniss/Buble/Hanyu fan you might like this video of Hanyu doing Deniss's choreo.

She's so young. Why is her coaching team allowing her to do quads

I love this FD so much and I love how hot he is!

R413 I really liked this. WTF with her arm position at the beginning/ending. She must be double jointed. Smirnov looks so much older now; I think I last caught them in the junior circuit, so dang little boy all growed up.

R413 robbed of the Rostelecom Cup host spot. At the Russian Cup this weekend Bagin apparently fell again

Finland Ladies

1) Tukta 202.85 2) Tursy 200.74 3) Lindfors 187.19 4) Kostantinova 187.13 5) Peltonen 172.02 6) Mallet 170.68

r412 Because she can do them now and nobody knows whether she'll be able to do them in 3 years.

r411 Another example of a "straight" Hanyu.

R416 Tursy won the FS too. Not the best, but Tuktik made more mistakes. I guess going back to Eteri is working out well for her.

R412 For those who are concerned about all these youngsters doing quads, I'm curious to know, what's the alternative? Do they not train them at all until they're older when it's less likely that they'll be able to actually do them? I think R417 is right, do them now when they're able to and hope for the best or risk not being able to do them at all. That seems like the calculation most would make in a sport where women peak in their teens.

She said in an interview that Eteri group's coaching environment is more suitable for her than TCC. I wonder why she didn't come back to Eteri after Sochi. Her programs this season are better than previous ones done by DW. Her consistency also improved.

Tango is not a great choice for Tursy. Just like Carmen wasn't last year.

R421 I agree, tango is not a good choice for Tursy. Her movements aren't sharp and precise enough so she just skates through the choreo. The MS short was much more well suited for her.

I found this on the intrawebs and I thought I'd share with you guys (I'm still googling the words I don't know, fyi) stevemblevins.blogspot.com/2018/04/

I can't post the link. Just go to that guy's blogspot and its most recent public entry.

r424 A guy wrote that? That's the gayest thing I've read this month. Vincent Zhou should write about himself and then we could do a literary comparison.

R424 Thanks! Some interesting blog posts by that poetic Yuzu fan including one about how he detests the movie A Christmas Story (so do I).

R425 don't insult the gays dude. That was written by a tween girl, though I have to give her credit for finding a good synonym for "sparkles."

I don't care if a cyclops wrote that, R427. I'll have you know I weeped.

That was positively Shakespearean, and wasn't Shakespeare gay?

He was bi apparently, but I see your point.

R429 Jesus Christ, I guess it is written in iambic pentameter, isn't it.

R428 what an absurd thing to say. There's no way a cyclops wrote that. They were blacksmiths and craftsmen not wordsmiths.

I don't care for Tursy's FS either but she is certainly doing much better than she ever did with Orser. I watched her from the time she started with him because that was when I started following Hanyu. And it was frustrating to see her show so little improvement year after year especially when, by all accounts, she was working very hard to improve. I don't think Orser was the right coach for her. She never seemed comfortable with him in the K&C.

Dai's new SP. Everyone's having trouble with spins this season. Lol.

R411 and R417. I love "straight" Hanyu! I will try to find my favorite photo of "straight" Hanyu. : )

R403 I think this is a huge overreach. Just because you don't follow someone as a model doesn't mean that you hate them. Does everyone hate everyone except their stated idols? This is no different than looking for clues so that you can ship people you like - just wanting to see what you want to be true. Anyone can like anyone's skating due to personal preference, and not naming someone as an idol is not an intentional affront. This sounds like such fragile ego that it hurts my head to read. Likewise, he announced his return when he was ready, before the season went into full swing. I don't believe it's "rude" to time your personal career announcements when it's not in the middle of someone else's thing. It wasn't even on the same day. How many days is he allowed before and after? Complaining about this is about as absurd as complaining that someone had the gall to announce their pregnancy the day before your wedding. Maybe if they did it during your wedding, it would get a side eye, but the day before? When it's not about you? That's just reaching so hard to be offended. His world doesn't revolve around Hanyu the way Hanyu fans' worlds might.

Nothing against you, and I have no personal investment in either Dai or Yuzuru. I'd say keep whatever fantasies alive that make you happy, but if it involves making a villain out of someone just for drama's sake, it bugs me.

Ah one of my favorite "straight" Hanyu photos.

R403. I heard things too. Saw a photo where Dai and other Japanese skaters were all sitting and Hanyu was left standing. It was like bullying imo. I don't talk Dai here because I don't care for him and I know others here like his skating. I said what I said already about him and I move on.

R437 That's why so many want to cuddle him. Poor baby.

Sorry - I'm the culprit of R436 annoyance. I just started following skating at Pyeongchang so I'm trying to place all these people in context or perspective. And I was happy to see him call Hanyu "king" - oh and I watched his short program and it was very good, as far as I can judge skating anyway. I should let his mysteries go

-for some reason I find myself intrigued by enigma, especially the negative side. Such is actually more interesting (to me, anyway) especially on a gossip board. So much of the other boards is either 110% OTT positive or neutral detail - I want dirt!! But understandably, that's not the primary purpose of this thread and I'll try to minimize the above kind of 'searching' for any kind of downlow talk (though I don't think it's particularly subtle). Anyway, maybe I'm a bit sadistic in enjoying the "dirt" a bit more than the endless plaudits.

I'm still trying to work through Dai saying he himself was a grass-eater and Hanyu was a carnivore. Who knows where that came from? Probably a questioner who brought up the very question, since it's a kind of astrology-like "thing" in Japan. But from little I understand, for me, Dai would be the carnivore. Maybe I should break down and buy his book - assuming it's been put out in English (I'm not sure I'm quite obsessed enough to work through a book with Google translate.)

Yes, I'll move on from retreads too R438. His name just came up again in a big way -- and I wanted to re-capture what vague understanding I have of the guy. He's another one who will be very interesting to follow this year and beyond. Some skaters are dull - Lysacek-dull, Keiji-dull - there's nothing to talk about! - but Dai isn't (and Hanyu isn't.) It's a pretty cool time to be a skating fan, in the men's anyway. I can't get into pairs/dance, though the women's is hotting up a bit with the Russian and Japanese wunderkind ingénues.

We went through the Takahashi/Hanyu shit in thread 1. Why are some people so obsessed that we have to rehash every fucking detail AGAIN? Is it because someone dared to post the Takahashi performace? Some Hanyu loons here seem to be butthurt because of Takahashi's very existence.

Let me lead the way and post something about Takahashi that's actually about Takahashi. Like my very important opinion about his SP.

The SP seems very... un-Takahashi. I associate him with passionate drama or dancing, and this was neither. Looked kinda like something Misha Ge or Jason Brown or any number of juniors would do. There was some passion towards the end but the music was a bit too bland to really gel well. Unless it's the matter of the sound quality and it's actually not so bland.

I promise to drop it R441. I thought he did well for someone who's been away for 4 years and is 31. (Oda did better though, with a quad!)

I love dirt too, and yes this is a gossip board, but we did went all over this particular drama on past threads so it's just boring now.

r442 I guess iit wasn't too bad, I was just hoping for some vintage Takahashi dancing. He's not gonna be competitive technically, but he could stand out artistically. I hhope he'll improve until Nationals, I actually want him to make the Worlds team and see how he would stack up against the current elite, mostly in terms of artistic expression.

I didn't like this SP either - I was looking forward to some cool Takahashi dancing or something like Blues for Kook. Fucking David Wilson had to mess with Dai too. Dai's spins have always been lacking. I have higher hopes for the John Grant program.

In other news, according to his rep, Javi's returning to Toronto to work on his SP and maybe his FS if there's time before ROI. Don't know whether this was planned or Japan Open was a wake up call.

The JO was probably a wake up call for Javi. He seems to need that sort of thing to get him to train.

If this is Dai's one and only season of return, I wish he would have gone the Plushenko route and done a best of himself, or the pre-ACI Yuzu route of idc about the scores I'm skating tributes to my idols. Simply, a program that flaunts who he is. He's an "original" like Yuzu, and none of his copycats like Shoma have anything on him still. It's frustrating to see DW take away what Dai has so much in artistry.

DW did one good program for Takahashi, thought. Short from 2011/2012

r445 r446 If Javi includes his programs into his show and practices them many times in front of audience, it might turn out ok. I'd like him to finish his career with a bang, not a whimper.

R449 Me too. If he's doing Europeans again, I want him to be on top of that podium. I think he just needs to spend a little more time training and doing run throughs.

R450 His rep did say intensive training so hopefully it's not just fucking around taking instagram pics.

R451 I think Brian will get him to train enough. At least he wasn't as bad as Nathan. Nathan looked like even his skating skills had deteriorated.

I wish Lambiel could have choreographed for Dai again, but I suppose he's got his plate pretty full these days. Or Kenji?

I think Shoma is funny. (and sweet)

Q. Which spin is fun to execute?

Yura “it’s not fun...(laughs) flying camel”

Keiji “Same. It’s tough...(to do)”

Rika “Biellmann”

Kaori “Me too, Biellmann”

Satoko “The layback to Biellmann”

Shoma “I hate the spins”

Asked about the "only" skater he has ever aspired to #DaisukeTakahashi, #ShomaUno replied:

"There are many skaters I respect, so please revise the part about the 'only skater'."

Some Hanyu UA ass

Shoma is so awkward. I enjoy his interviews because he makes me laugh with his uninspired answers. He kinda reminds me of myself when I was younger, also didn't know what to say at any given situation.

Gooddamit those are very cute. Uugh I don't want to own one, but I do.

Somewhere I saw an interview where they asked Shoma what he was good at besides skating, and he said, "Nothing."

I wonder if he's being comical on purpose with that one, because Yuzuru said Shoma was "a gamer who skates while I [Yuzu] am a skater who plays games sometime." And asked about his practice, Shoma said every day, eight hours skating, eight hours gaming, eight hours sleep.

He's like the anti-Vincent.

Vincent is legitimately funny to me because he's so ridiculous. Shoma just seems like he's on the spectrum and utterly devoid of any social skills. I don't see what's entertaining or funny about his non-answers.

Shoma is a very normal, somewhat relatable young man and his awkwardness is very endearing to his fans. I like his refusal to take himself seriously.

I don't know if this has been posted (the view from the rear) but it's pretty hilarious how Roman Sadovsky doesn't want to take his hands off of Yuzuru's waist. Are we sure this guy is straight? (Roman I mean)

Look at that sturdy grip compared to how Hanyu is holding Cha. Must feel nice to fit your hand against that waist.

R461 Lol at Hanyu using manner hands with Cha. I don't think Roman's gay. Aside from the girlfriend, he comes off very straight during interviews and some YouTube thing I saw with him. As bro as you get with a figure skater.

Another vote for Shoma here. I think the obvious affection other skaters seem to have for him is telling. I know I find his personality charming.

461 He didn't know what to do and just followed what Yuzuru did. So cute. If he has chance to stand on podium again, I bet he will do what he learned from Yuzuru ( hugging, holding waist, bowing to audience before exiting...). I knew of him since he was a junior ( around 2014). He reminded me of young Weir the first time I saw him, which made me think he was gay, lol. He looked so beautiful and so Russian and skated smoothly. He has grown so much since then and became a handsome tall guy now. He's multitalented too. This is his Insta video playing "Parisienne Walkways". Look charming, right ? Yuzuru would be shaken watching this.

[R459] My opinion is the opposite

Shoma is very funny to me because he is a cipher and is either ridiculously clueless or deadpan depending on who's projecting. For me, Vincent is only entertaining because his delusions of grandeur and lack of self-awareness are ripe for mockery. After his sad skate and seeing how injured he looked at US Classic though, I feel kind of bad for him.

More straight Hanyu doing straight things with a sports drink.

Tomono wins. Nakamura second. Takahashi pushed into third place (195 points) at Regionals

R468 I saw he fell twice on his 3A. Blech. Any video yet?

Not a great showing, but I think I read on GS that Dai only has to make top 13 to advance to Sectionals and then top 13 there to advance to Nats. Doesn't seem like it would be that hard for him to reach his goal, even if he doesn't skate that well.

I guess this is an upgrade from the toilet paper SP costume.

Dai's FS

r472 Shame about jumps but that was a much more distinctive program than the SP. I will even forgive him the telegraphing if he jumps well. He's a great dancer. Hopefully, he'll iron out the kinks through sectionals and by nationals. The costume is great, even if it's black.

Lots of two footed skating in Dai's program. Not surprising though when you consider how long he's been gone from competitive skating.

On the subject of Shoma’s awkwardness, this is my favourite video of him. Love watching him wish the floor would open up and swallow him.

r474 Yeah. But there's so much two-footed skating in general this season that it's not gonna hurt him. Uno and Tomono are the same, only Hanyu and somewhat Tanaka manage something more refined. Btw, Tanaka's FS is quite good, he has an actual choreo sequence, surprise surprise.

R472 Don't get me wrong, this was better than the short, jumps notwithstanding, but I didn't like it. Someone upthread commented that if this is his last season, he should play to his strengths. Forget about the tech, he's not going to be able compete with the big guns on that level (his TES for the FS was 39.52, which is basically an SP tech score). He spends too much time in the program setting up for or looking stressed about the jumps. I like the music, but the choreo seems spare. He should just say fuck it and dance the entire time. Give his fans what they came for.

I went looking for blues for kook after watching this. Enjoy!

R477 39 TES is pretty atrocious. Not one in Finland Trophy went below 40 TES in FS and that's including Virtanen who fell 4 times (and got 41). At Nebelhorn no-one was below 40. In Lombardia only the South African skater. At Nepela 6 skaters (I previously heard of one of them, never heard the others). At Autmun Classic only the Mexican and one of the Irish guys scored below 40.

A mindfucking performance by Tatsuki Machida.

Also Nathan looked good at gala. All jumps landed except a popped 3A. Maybe he bombed yesterday because of nerves.

Dai hasn't competed in 4 freaking years and he hasn't been training that long. He had a decent SP. All things considered, I think he did alright. His score is higher than Daniel Samohin managed to get at either of his senior Bs this season.

Dai got 2 jumps (3Lz and 3Lo) downgraded. The second 3A was under-rotated. And an unclear edge on the 2F

Kazuki, the winner, only scored 206.80. So it's not like the other competitors were light years better.

But was Kazuki or others scored down or up? I can never not doubt scores. But this is a no-one-cares-about-regionals-except-for-Dai competition so maybe scores are right. What I really want to know is if Dai received/will receive a reputation boost in PCS or not, and if not then why when Nathan can get 9's. For anyone who actually bothered to watch more than one skate, did Dai's quality as a legendary senior skater (aside from mistakes) stand out at least? Because even when a elite quality skater messes up I still find them more riveting than some of the lower tier skaters.

Japanese national competitions are not known to be much overscored compared to other feds (Canada, Italy, Germany, etc).

Tomato got 73 PCS. At Lombardia he scored 72 (with a better performance? He had less jumps with negative GOE at Lombardia than here).

Dai got a TES of 39.52? Wakaba Higuchi won with a TES of 57.16, with an edge call on her 3F+2T+1Lo.

It appears that Higuchi's bad form is due to an injured instep. Hopefully she can heal before Skate Canada.

All the Dai talk has reminnpded me of Gracie Gold. Any word on how she's doing? I know she didn't decide to participate in GP (or she's withdrawn?) but does she have a bye to Nationals?

R487 Wellll, if you can stand it, here's a long ass interview Gracie did with a random guy she met (there's some backstory on FS universe, but I don't remember it). She discusses her depression. I haven't watched it.

R487 she is still listed for GP (Rostelecom Cup)

Xiangning LI has withdrawn from NHK. And Li/Xie has withdrawn from Stake America and Finnish GP

r488 Uhhh, I just wanted a condensed version on whether she has her jumps back. I was wrong about her not doing GP, she is still on the list for Rostelecom. I thought she also had a Skate America spot but she withdrew, but I may have been wrong.

Talking about Skate America, who is Megan Wessenberg? Were there really no other skaters to give the host spot to?

R489 Any word/speculation on the reason for the withdrawals? I honestly didn't see how Li would be able to keep up with both.

R491 No, apparently there were not. And Gracie was never scheduled for Skate America.

r493 Thanks, I'm probably remembering the speculation about Gracie being a host pick. Well, Rostelecom is still quite long time away, she might get ready.

I guess the the Skate America host pick was down to

Megan Wessenberg whoever she is

Katie McBeath, whoever she is

notorious head case Amber Glenn

or a second spot for

conservatie fundie Courtney Hicks

Angela Wang

Gracie Gold who apparently was just doing doubles at Champs Camp

R492 I don't know if she is injured

but a couple of weeks ago there was a national competition in China and Li/Xie were 60+ points behind Peng/Jin. They also were 25 points behind Wang/Wang who are not even on the national team anymore. So I guess they were not ready to debut on the international scene

I have a question for anyone with the nbc sports gold pass for fs. I have the app on my roku. Now when I look for upcoming events I see nothing for the skating. I believe skate America is the 19th? I see nothing there. Shouldn't they have the event there under October19? They have other things listed though. I hope I'm making sense here.

R497 I use my MacAir for that and I find their website very confusing. I just tried it again now and it took me a lot of clicking around to get to the actual figure skating. I did find it though, both the current on demand videos and also a list of upcoming events. Skate America is listed, Oct 19-21.

R496 Thank you. So much shit going down with Team China lately - Boyang, Sui/Han withdrawing from GP, Han Yan etc. Who do they even have left competing in the GPs?

And speaking of Han Yan, he started a youtube channel and just posted a vlog of his workout. Not into it myself, but won't judge if you are.

R498. Ok so when I go to their website I click on figure skating I then see the whole schedule. When I go on the website and my roku and I click live and upcoming link at the top it has nothing there for October 19-21 for figure skating. It shows nbc sports Philly, sports talk. and postgame live. If I click the filter and then figure skating It says no results. Maybe we need to get closer to the actual event perhaps? This is so confusing.

What's going on with Han Yan?

Here's the article that came out in July about him. The gist is that he's turning pro and no longer a part of the national team; going to university, plans to coach and choreograph.

[499] So much shit going down with Team China lately - Boyang, Sui/Han withdrawing from GP, Han Yan etc. Who do they even have left competing in the GPs?

Boyang, Peng/Jin, Wang/Liu

I think Peng/Jin, Wang/Liu, Nin/Wang (weak ice dancers) and Chen/Sun (young ice dancers training in Canada) are the only ones who competed internationally so far this season.

New Hersh article on Med. Not really anything new, but will most definitely piss off Eteri:

Her coaches made the decision not to put all 7 of her jumping passes in the second half at Olys - she thought it put her at a disadvantage but she "trusted" them.

She sometimes has to ask her TCC coaches to be harder on her.

Talks about how team cricket has to choose their words carefully so as not to offend the Russians. But of course the article is about her being able to make her own choices, how much more in control she is of her skating, how happy and comfortable she is at TCC.

Wanted to dispel any rumors that she thought the judging was unfair at Olys. She thought it was the correct result.

She's changing her costumes for Skate America.

On what alternate universe is TCC choosing their words carefully?

Also, Eteri treated her like a princess and Med didn’t do an extra jump due to her foot injury. You know the one that left her unable to compete in this year’s worlds.

Please, she chose the bs routines and music for this season?!

Info & streaming for JGP Armenia, the last JGP of the season. Men's and Ladies SP start on Oct. 11.

Med said early May she had chose to go to Canada and be coached by Orser because of Yuna Kim but said in the interview with GS she didn't know why she chose Orser. She should learn to be consistent with her words before she learns to become an adult.

R505 Exactly. The more I read about Medvedeva and this whole mess the more she comes across as a spoiled and entitled brat who threw a tantrum because Cinderella beat her and the more it makes me root for Alina. I have disliked Eteri for years because of what happened with Yulia and how she treated Alina but Medvedeva always was her precious child and everyone could see that. Even Eteri's daughter Diana mentioned how her mom seemed to care more about Evgenia than. I hope she finds what she is looking for in TCC though, outside of trying to get into Yuzu's pants, but it probably won't be an easy season for her.

I suspect Med really did want Eteri to keep Alina in juniors one more year so she could win that OGM.

I'm really tired of the demonizing of Eteri. Tursy seems to genuinely like her and is certainly doing better with her group than she did with Brian & Tracy.

No coach is perfect or right for everyone.

Med: "I didn't say that. I don't remember saying that. Well maybe I said that but I didn't remember. Oh no what I just said, I didn't say that. I mean I don't remember exactly. Even if I said, I didn't mean it that way...." Phil: So what is your final answer ?

I'm inclined to cut Med some slack, whatever she said in the heat of the moment after coming so close to the OGM. Zag is smart to keep her mouth shut and head down throughout all of this. I'd never seen an OGM looking so sheepish and quiet after finding out she's won. I don't care for her skating, but I like her and think she deserves more credit and attention.

I think it's Orser who comes out looking unwise in all of this. He has some sort of agenda - whether it's trying to replicate his Yuna success (or show what he could have done for Yuna had she stayed with him), undermining Eteri, or maybe he's just high on his oly success. In any case, he comes off as unprofessional and given how most of TCC has done so far this season, he needs to stop with the PR and concentrate on training his students. If Gogo doesn't make it to the JGPF and 3 of Eteri's students do, it's going to be embarrassing for Brian. And Gogo shouldn't be caught up in this little rivalry. There's enough pressure on the poor kid, mostly of Brian's making.

r511 There's about 5% chance Gogo will make it to JGPF. So Orser will have to admit defeat on the junior circuit.

R511 I suspect Gogo also has very demanding parents who put a lot of pressure on that kid's little shoulders.

R513 what makes you think this?

I was kind of excited when I heard Boyang was going to TCC, but I'm glad now that he didn't - for Junhwan Cha's sake. I agree with Dave Lease this week who said Cha is the most likely to be challenging Hanyu in a couple years and Orser should stop flying all over creation with people like Joseph Phan and neglecting his diamond in the rough. Though I'm not sure Orser is the best polisher. Dave suggested more time with Shae Lynn would be just as good as Orser.

In any case, I like Cha's style and think he's progressing pretty well - but for his ego, being more the center of Orser's attention might do wonders. Doesn't he just need firmer skating skills? And Ghislain to help with jumps? He's got it all, if he stays healthy and stops growing (he's 5'10" now).

And WTF is going on with Gabby Daleman and a drunken Instastory just as Japan Open was streaming - where she was supposed to be? And there was a photo of her at some Thank You Canada type ice show during the Japan Open as well. Miss Flaky MacFlake with witchy woman nails and raccoon eyes. I worry about that one. What's up with North American women? Gabby, Ashley, Gracie, Karen Chen. I guess Miss spoiled Med is in the appropriate milieu, considering - and looks to following a similar trajectory.

And Tursy said she was back where the training actually worked for her.

Obviously Cha isn't the (only) one Orser hopes to be challenging Hanyu in a few years (if Hanyu doesn't retire) - and that's Gogo. Cha will probably have to be the Hanyu to Orser if Gogo is the Javi to Orser (the son, and the one that TCC IS actually the most proud of to have brought up to prominence).

Gogo will be 14 in December - so he can't move up next year, but he can the year after that? By then, Hanyu will be 25 (as of Dec '19). I guess it's possible Yuzuru will still be competing but if so, that ankle is stronger than I think.

But good point about the real duo shaping up to be Cha v Gogo, unless Nathan and Boyang can get a grip. And there's judges' pet Shoma. And who knows who else - that Russian Gumennik looked pretty strong and he's already 16. Also the Japanese boy that's in Lambiel's squad - I can't remember his name but I've been impressed by his skating in the Jr GP. Anything could happen really - just like with the women with all those Russian girls with the quads and the Japanese girls with the 3As (esp Kihira) taking the stage next year. Maybe Med should find herself a boyfriend and settle down (and I don't think she'll find one at TCC lol)

Dave Lease usually ends up being wrong when he makes predictions. And why anyone would take that twit's advice about anything is beyond me.

I believe that FS has become too technically difficult now to predict who will survive its physical demands and end up on top. Cha has had injuries already and his height could also really hurt him. As for Gogo, I'd feel more confidant about him if he didn't look like it was the end of the world when he doesn't skate well.

LOL point taken R518. I ashamed to admit I have a bit of a crush on Dave, god help me. Watching that vlog is a pain though, with the one named Jonathan talking so much, so loudly and so manic-ly. Not sure I can sit through it much longer, even for cute Dave and his wild guesses about skating that are no better than ours - I agree with you there. Right after watching Yuzuru just barely beating Jun at Autumn Classic well, duh, no wonder he's thinking they'll be rivals - but that's just a challenger with nobody else there but those two. Let's see how Jun (and the judges' rating of him) fare at a real comp, with a competitive field.

I want to see how tall Gogo's parents are. He's got gangly legs and most Russian blonds are tall - well, Kolyada's not - I'm probably thinking of Scandinavians and Germans. Still, if there was a photo of him and his parents i'd love to see it. And thinking of Nathan's 8 major injuries by age 18, I'm wondering how Gogo's spine and leg joints are really gonna hold up - I don't think the girls are the only ones who may have to pay the piper when they start quads so young. Still, especially for girls, their careers are so ridiculously short anyway and the competition is ridiculous, either go big early, or go home.

Yuzu has throughout his career faced off with Machida, Takahashi, Patrick Chan, Javier, Shoma, Nathan and now Cha. Time and again people would write him off because of one poor skate usually due to some injury and yet here he still stands as the number one in the field with the 2 Olympic golds and world records after all these years. Saying Cha will be challenging him in a few years is absurd. First of all in a few years Yuzu will be retired and at this point to challenge him and his legacy you would need to have among other things won the Olympics twice in a row. Not going to happen any time soon. As for Cha, I like him but he has a lot of issues on his jumps which Yuzu never had. Yuzu always had impeccable technique on all his jumps apart from his flip on which he worked hard to improve until it was finally good. But he never had underrotation issues for instance. So let's stop putting ridiculous expectations on Cha, Gogolev and all the younger skaters to be the next Hanyu. If they can be the next Javier Fernandez it will already be quite impressive.

There's a GS thread on the 5 best figure skaters ever in each discipline and someone named Gogo as one of the best ever for men's. LOL. This poor kid.

I agree Cha has so much room for improvement before he can be called the best. Right now his skating is just ok. He needs to fix his jumps set ups asap because they they look ugly af and it feels like years before he jumps. And also he needs to work on his posture, he kind of hunches a bit.

ABOUT JUDGING

R349 r391 This is one of my unanticipated pleasures of the new system - hilarious to see the look on Javi’s face when he sees that he got outscored by a lady, especially since the ladies’ PCS are multiplied by a lower factor. Quite a few of the guys are going to get emasculated, especially when the Russian juniors move up.

Has anyone attempted to score the skates so far? I tried some. Can’t paste the details because of DL formatting but some of my results so far (totals include deductions):

Uno Lombardia SP: 51.85 TES/46.25 PCS=98.1 (Judges: 57.65/46.5=104.15)

Uno Lombardia LP: 83.08 TES/83 PCS=165.08 (Judges: 83.75/89.3=172.05)

Hanyu AC SP: 51.66 TES/46 PCS=97.66 (Judges: 52.34/45.4/97.74)

Hanyu AC LP: 81.41 TES/90.5 PCS=170.91 (Judges: 79.01/87.9=165.91)

Kolyada Ondrej SP: 51.86 TES (judges: 52.52) - didn’t judge PCS because the versions I saw had other music playing over it.. At least I hope it isn’t his music.

Kolyada Ondrej LP: 88.49 TES/91 PCS=178.49 (Judges: 87.05/91.5 = 177.55)

DAI vs. TOMONO R401 r434 Don’t like the SP. I suppose he interprets the music well enough but it’s so flat and the costume is horrible. At least his hair doesn’t look quite as bad as when he was on the Olympic Channel. Hopefully everything is only this bad because it’s still early. I’m sure things will get better with polish. The LP seems like it has potental for decent drama if performed well.

Tomono hasn’t exactly been tearing it up this year either. His lp does not impress me at all and I don’t see any improvement in any aspect of his skating. Looking forward to the battle for bronze as much as the battle for gold at JPN nationals.

SHOMA vs. VINCENT vs. MACHIDA

I agree with r459 about his assessment of Shoma but that’s what makes him endearing. Shoma is completely relateable like a dumb but sweet little brother. When you’re so used to people either giving the same old stock answers or answers that are so carefully crafted, Shoma’s dazed and awkward ones are so refreshing. Plus, he’s a fabulous foil to the big personalities of Hanyu and Oda without being just another boring straight man (obviously I mean “straight” in only a comedic role sense).

R467 I agree about both Vincent and Shoma. But I love having a variety of personalities to spice up the sport. Better unlikeable than dull. Vincent isn’t nearly the skater Nathan is but he’s provided us with a lot more entertainment.

R396 r398 r428 Machida is probably even more ridiculous than Zhou but it feels more genuine and substantive because he’s also his fabulous flaming self and he has actual artistry in his skating.

THIS AND THAT

R412 r417 r419 Aside from almost everything being more difficult to learn as adults, your body recovers a lot more easily when you’re young. You also have more collagen in your bones so you’re less likely to break something. If anything, it seems safer to learn these jumps as a kid. This is the obvious direction the sport is going. Unless skating is just a hobby for you, you should learn the quads young. And if you don’t have the chops to compete, isn’t it better to understand that earlier so you can make an informed decision for the rest of your life?

R461 r465 I wonder how much time Roman gets to see Hanyu at TCC? You would think that as rinkmates he would be used to being around Hanyu but he seemed starstruck on the podium and I suspect his fanboying is why he learned how to play Parisian Walkways - I doubt Gary Moore is particularly popular amoung the youth. And Frontalist posted these Roman quotes on the other thead “I respect Yuzu, a lot. I was always a huge fan of him” On the programs he watch on youtube “I watch a lot of Yuzuru Hanyu, his long program at Helsinki is probably one of my favorite” What do you think about Yuzuru? “I think he’s the king” I like his skating - I hope to see him be competitive on the grand prix in the future.

On the other thread, some said that Daleman withdrew from JPN Open because of IBS!?! Hanyu… NHK… cries because he has to withdraw from an ultimately meaningless competition due to a potentially career ending injury. Hanyu… COC… skates immediately after having injured his leg and visibly bleeding from the head … then spends a week in a wheelchair. Shoma… skates at worlds with an injury and falls all over the place toward a silver medal. Med… skates on a fractured toe. Nathan… skates with a cast on his arm. Daleman… withdraws due to potentially having the shits or farts that day… a week or so from now.

R511 My guess is that Med did say that but it wasn’t meant literally. We’ve all said ridiculous things when exasperated that we didn’t really mean. Fans put public figures to such unrealistic standards, especially when they want to dislike them.

R502 I never understand why skaters who aren’t making it as singles skaters don’t attempt another discipline. It’s been rumored in a few places that the CHN fed wanted him to move to dance or pairs but he refused. In his case, he probably was ready to retire anyway but what about everyone else that spends their entire careers mired in the low to middle ranks? I realize some people break through when they’re older but that is by far the exception and is normally short lived even the few times it does happen.

R519 I always have TSL on when I’m doing other things then only completely pay attention if there’s a topic that interests me. There’s also almost always someone in the comments section that has the segments time stamped. I don’t know how anyone could just sit and watch the whole thing.

R521 god, I hope they were joking. If it was serious, I assume it was a Canadian poster.

R524 Unrealistic standard ? Have you ever heard of " sportsmanship" ?

r525 It's unrealistic to expect people to be perfect constantly and then crucify them for any tiny perceived slip up.

Gosh, I'm sure you've never said a bad thing in your life during what is probably the most emotional moment of your life in what is supposed to be a private conversation but I certainly have and I don't hold anyone to social standards that I don't follow. While it's wonderful that the world has you to be such a paragon of virtue, I've never heard, much less met, anyone who has managed to meet your level. Even the wondrous Yuzuru Hanyu has had minor slip ups in decorum.

R524 [quote]Daleman… withdraws due to potentially having the shits or farts that day… a week or so from now.

Well, if you put that way...At this point, Gabby is just kind of sad - the photoshopping, drunken sns post, getting into twitter trouble for plagiarizing someone's tweet etc. etc. I wonder what's going on with her but I don't care enough to find out.

R525 I've seen plenty of instances of Med's sportsmanship and I don't even pay attention to her that much. When she's gracious, the haters call her fake; when she (maybe) expresses some bitterness in what must have been the most devastating moment of her life so far, they point to it as some indication of her true personality. I don't think people should be judged by the worst things they say or do, especially in extenuating circumstances.

Yeah well I think you're right but people is always going to biased opinions and what is there to do? Figure skating is already a very subjective sport.

R524 I don't think Roman trains at TCC anymore. He was there for a short time to train with Orser and Lee Barkell but switched back to his long-time coach the following season.

How embarrassing. I totally forgot the gratuitous ass pic.

Another example of one of the many mistakes I've made in life. Please everyone, remember that we can't expect people to be as perfect as this ass.

extenuating circumstances??YOu all think she said that all of a sudden? I bet she thought like that whole season,actually thats nomal thing .Through two seasons she has been winning eveything, with ease. In that most important season, olympic season, one of the juniors came to senios and started to won as well. If not her , she would have won europeans,olympic and worlds in a row . Again, with ease.

I feel sorry for Daleman if she has bowel issues to deal with. Imagine having to worry about diarrhea just before a competition. Nightmare.

I don't feel sorry for Med. She spent years reaping the rewards of being ridiculously over scored and we're supposed to feel pity for her because she failed to win the biggest prize of all? The obvious PR campaign she and TCC are orchestrating is embarrassing, as is Orser's pissing contest with Eteri.

R531 I'm embarrassed for you actually. Pic is good, but I hope the lingering shame will motivate you to post others.

r524 Sometimes they do switch disciplines. Valentina Marchei was 11th in Sochi in singles and then she she was 6th in Pyeongchang with Hotarek in Pairs. Hotarek used to be a singles skater pre-Vancouver too.

Sounds like all of Gabby's problems would be solved if only she'd learn to stop eating.

That would just create more problems

Such inspirational words.

R537 Your weak-willed North American excuses sicken me.

Thanks R523. I would hope, going forward, that new GOE would help Hanyu and hurt Uno, like in your example - if all the world were fair - but I'm not holding my breath. Chen's another one whose technique bothers me, but I guess mainly the landing and flow out. I think too often they get in their head who they want to promote.

Sorry but I don't buy that part where the coaches put all of Med's jumping passes in first half to screw her over at the Olympics, and she went along with it because she trusted them even if she thought they were unfair. Does anyone honestly buy this? This is such a roundabout way of saying 'I should have won, I totally deserved to win, but I was screwed over, woe is me'. I think the reality is that Med didn't have the stamina for doing jumps in the second half, like Alina did, and the coaches made the programs to highlight the students' respective strengths. The system did the rest. Believe me, I don't care a rotten fig about Eteri, I'm not a fan of her and her mass-produced programs which all bore me to death, but I think it's absurd to assume that she and her team don't want all her students to do their best.

After all, no one accused Orser of giving Fernandez a program with a lower base value than Hanyu's for the Olympics, and wasn't that a similar thing? Fernandez got the program he was technically able to do, and so did Med.

R541 Her team did let her backload all jumps at the beginning of the season but she failed to skate clean ( at Ondrej Trophy 2017 ) so they went back to old layout with 5 jumps passes in the second half. Nobody including Eteri expected Zagitova's PCS to rise from 68 to 75 during only fews months. Even after Zagitova won against Med at European, almost everyone still predicted Med would win if both skated clean. Eteri's "oh,fuck" face when Zagitova's score came out is the best indication of not wanting (expect ) Zagitova to win. Her team did their job to assure a gold for Med and a silver for Alina but "unfortunately" the system also did its job- boosting skaters with higher BV. Med was overscored and won everything with ease throughout 2 straight seasons, it didn't mean she should have got boosted and handed the Gold at the most competition.

I'm an introvert too and I'm just fascinated with this guy! (Shoma) Here's some excerpts and a link to a recent long interview with Shizuka Arakawa:

Shoma: ... I game too much and forget to talk to my parents and reply to friends and stuff… so no one invites me to do anything anymore [laugh]. I really do the same things every day. When I have to talk to people, it’s kind of troublesome because I have nothing to talk about. The topics are really limited.

Shizuka: So you must get lost talking to people sometimes. Shoma: Yeah, I do, so I just nod and go “hmm.” I’m learning by listening [laugh].

Shizuka: Has anything changed since you became 20? Shoma: Not really. Shizuka: Do you drink alcohol now? Shoma: Sometimes. Mostly on my own [laugh].

Shizuka: You just stay home? Shoma: Yeah, I’m not the type to leave the house. I don’t want to go anywhere. I just want walk around the house at night by myself.

Shizuka: [laughs] You’re like a grandpa. Shoma: Sometimes I think about what I’ll do when I stop skating. I think I want to live a very slow, calm life lol… I’m really bad at talking. I had to do a lot of interviews, so now I can talk at least this much, but I used to be terrible at it and I’m still not very good. So it’s more comfortable drinking alone at home rather than with a bunch of people.

[Vacation?] : I haven’t been in a while. Sometimes I think it’d be nice to go alone to a place where no one’s around, with beautiful natural scenery. Shizuka: Alone? Shoma: Yeah, definitely alone lol.

R542 Very good summary of what happened with Med and Zag.

R536 Eating is not Gabby's problem. Irritable bowel issues have a huge emotional component to them. If you've ever been stressed out and suddenly found yourself with excess gas or diarrhea, you know what I'm talking about. I wonder how she's been affected by Med's arrival at TCC? I would not be surprised if Orser gives her little attention now after her disaster at the Olympics. I've watched Brian closely since 2015 when I started following Hanyu. There is a lot more of Eteri in him than he or his fans would like to admit. Like most top coaches, he wants winners in his stable.

I share your fascination with Shoma, [R543]. How can such a shy, introverted homebody steel himself to deal with all the interviews, the constant international travel, the spotlight of competitions? I do think he's come out of his shell a lot in the past year, and he may be exaggerating a bit in an effort to be self-deprecating. Plus, he certainly has his close bond with Itsuki, so he's probably not alone as much as it sounds.

I love how Shoma just lays it on the line, like it or not. I always feel sorry for Yuzuru when people grill him about when he's gonna get married - what kind of woman are you interested in - and all that ludicrous malarkey. I wish he'd just do like Shoma and say I'm just not interested, instead of having to come up with convoluted explanations of letting his fans down or getting unnerved (when a kid asked him in a Q&A) and becoming a big indignant - "I'm not that old!" or whatever he nervously blurted out.)

What people's expectations are - it's just so intrusive and stupid to keep bothering these poor guys, and Shoma seems to just say, "Screw it - I am what I am - it is what it is"

I really admire that, in a strange way. It's very freeing. So much of society tries to lay all this expectation on you when it's none of their business and who has all their shit perfectly together anyway?

* I meant to say becoming a BIT indignant...

Beautifully put, [R546]! It IS freeing to just opt out of the game of impression management so many people feel they have to play. I think a lot of us Shoma fans respond to him for that very reason. I find his openness simultaneously startling and amusing.

R544, completely agree with you on Orser surpassing Eteri on being Eteri, if one goes back to the Orser Yuna split back in 2010, guess who also went to National TV showing off personal email communications with his student? And who was it that has gone one step further to reveal Yuna’s Music choice for the upcoming season.

Zhenya at this point has way too many flip flop answers since May that she has lost all credibility. I wish she can cutback on the PR talks and just revenge with actual improvement in skating instead. Not that I care about her skating much, I used to like her personality a lot for the “sportsmanship” that was mentioned upthread; up until the point she started losing, and that’s when all the finger pointing begins. I also remember she was trying out the backloading layout in the beginning of last season, which she failed miserably. Honestly I wouldn’t have mind for her to stick with that layout, I’d be happy for Satoko to Allen it on the podium. Both zhenya and satoko have meh jumps, but I do enjoy Satoko’s performance a lot more.

I can relate to all those who find Shoma endearing, he does seem to always surprise us with the most unexpected answers. However, he is also blessed being the adopted child of the Mao and Dai fans. I think in general the Japan skating fans have a lot more tolerance for him, being the younger skater that’s always under the shadow of Hanyu. I’d imagine if Hanyu behave anyway remotely similar to little Shoma (like snoozing off during press conference/award recognition events, or saying things like Olympic is nothing special) he’d be criticized and attacked to no ends. I think Hanyu learnt this painful lesson at the young age of 17 when he was attacked harshly by Takahashi fans just by stating he would not lose to his senpai (off mic).

Lol, that dude. He would probably have a better chance of getting Yuzu to agree to private lessons if he called it figure skating and not ice skating. Way to show you are clueless and uninterested about the sport.

R524 Roman Sadovsky had trained at TCC for a very short time. He was with Orser during JGP 2016 but by he already had switched back to Tracey Wainman by Canadian Nationals. I don't know why he went back to his old coach that fast. Someone said he got harassed / bullied ???? at TCC ( which I didn't really buy, he appears to be a friendly guy and quite close to Cha ). Maybe he felt unconfortable and lonely at TCC. He has trained with Wainman for a long time and has many buddies at YRSA. He isn't gay, he said it himself in a Vlog and his friend said because he was well dressed and a good skater who didn't skate like a piece of wood, some people took that as being gay lol.

R542, thanks, this was informative, I didn't know any of this. Now I'm curious why Zagitova's PCs rise and Med's dropped. I don't think Med's artistry is something to marvel about, but Alina's isn't either. And their programs were typical Eteri, so why would the judges favor with PCs a newcomer (Alina) over Med who was the judges darling for so long.

Maybe the judges grew tired of Med’s open-mouth “artistry”? A little of that goes a long way.

Alina is the OGM. It ain't rocket science.

R554 People are talking about Zag's rising PCS in the period before the Olympics.

Nah, it ain't just the OGM boost, otherwise Alina wouldn't have gotten that meteoric PCS rise last year. It's the Russian anointed one boost.

Sasha is in a good position to be the next anointed one, who could beat Alina through favorable scores (TES + overscored PCS) as Alina beat Med, so Russian Nats will be a battle to see if the Fed decides to throw both Alina and Med out yet.

Well either Eteri is lying or Evgenia is. I then have to ask myself what would Eteri gain from lying? Evgenia imo was becoming jealous of Zags. She probably did want Zags to stay in juniors. She really needs to grow up.

Well considering she's a teenager I think immature behaviour is allowed.

“Failed miserably”, R549? She got an edge call and a shaky landing on her solo lutz and won the event 36+ points ahead of the second place finisher. If that’s a miserable failure, what do you call Alina’s FS at Worlds? Gabby’s FS at the Olympics? Actually, most of the ladies’ skating on any given day?

And it’s BS that Eteri wanted Med to win because she cared so much about precious little Zhenya. She’s sick to death of being called a coach of juniors. She wanted to have a (relatively) senior skater from her stable to win an OGM to prove that she CAN work with seniors and still be the best in the world, thank you very much. But she ended up proving once again that her methods work only on prepubescent girls with no hips and the “right” character for the sport. There is a Japanese documentary on Zhenya and Alina, if you are curious, where you can see the difference between training a “junior” (Alina) and a “grown-up” (Evgenia). The way Tutberidze talks to Zagitova, post-run-through (you don’t even have to understand what’s being said, the tone of voice is enough), and Alina just swallows her tears and continues. And the way she talks to Medvedeva - you clearly see that she doesn’t even quite know what to say (the Japanese filmed when Med was injured, through recovery and training for Euros), because Med is already SO HARD on herself, you can see her world coming crushing down on her, and Eteri clearly just doesn’t know what to do, because her method (shut up and work. If it doesn’t work, work harder) doesn’t work and she doesn’t know any other.

So if Eteri is such a monster, than why did Tursy go back to her?

And how much better off financially is Alina now that she won that OGM? Does she regret the hard work Eteri put her through?

Competitive figure skating in its present form favors certain body types, both for females and for males. It's not just the ladies who are winning younger, it's the guys as well now.

R560 You say that Eteri didn't treat Medvedeva better than the others and then you use examples that prove the opposite. If Eteri had behaved with Medvedeva like she did with Alina, she would have run crying to Orser a long time ago. Alina as the tough little girl she is just dried her tears and worked harder. And lol at the issue being that now Medvedeva is mature and that's why Eteri had issues. Alina has matured a lot recently and yet she still competes extremely well and with a real joy when she is on the ice. I'm not surprised Alina got everyone to support her very soon into her first seniors season. She comes across as humble, hard working and genuine. And she is very pretty. All of this makes you want to root for her.

r560

[quote]And it’s BS that Eteri wanted Med to win because she cared so much about precious little Zhenya.

I'm an Orser fan and not much of an Eteri one, but while Eteri wanted to have an OGM, one could see from a mile away it was not a toss up for her whether it'd be Evgenia or Alina. Eteri seemed to actually care abut precious little Zhenya and was invested in her success.

Exactly, for the reasons listed above, R563. She wanted to prove she can achieve prolonged success, not just replace one broken skater with a newer model.

Medvedeva also got everyone to support her in her first senior season, R562. And I don’t know where you got that Eteri treats her differently, when I wrote she treats her the same, it just doesn’t work. You can see for yourself:

R563: That’s an interesting perspective. Was Eteri going to replace her after the Olympics? Also, the fitness level comment makes sense as the reason for the change in program. Honestly, Eteri and Orser have nothing to lose when it comes to Med. I find Med’s storyline interesting and I wonder if she thought in terms of the reality of her career.

[italic] Caveat: I don’t care enough about any of these three to follow them so all these statements are in response to things I’ve read on forums [/italic]

R556 No, it’s the “reputation + high TES = High PCS boost”. Same reason Nathan gets the PCS scores. Not to mention, she skated really well at the Olympics. This is so obvious that I feel silly even writing this, but skaters’ PCS scores tend to be bigger when they actually look trained and skate cleanly. Also, the scores at the Olympics trended high in general. Multiple world records were set.

R552 Med’s PCS didn’t drop. She got several 10’s at the Olympics and had the highest PCS scores of the competition. Zag was only 3rd in PCS.

R541 Med didn’t even come close to claiming that Eteri tried to screw her over. This is the actual quote from the article about the jump layout:

[quote] “I understood it (fewer possible points) could be bad for my results in the future, but I trusted my coaches,” Medvedeva said. “My coaches cared about my health because they thought I was not strong enough to keep it clean.”

In Fernandez’s case, Orser ASKED him if he wanted to increase his difficulty layout and Fernandez thought it would be better to do what he does well. Orser has previously stated that he believes that at some point athletes need to take control of their own careers.

My guess for Med’s scenario is that she was probably concerned about being behind in BV but never spoke up about it. Her team believed that she could win with what she had so it wasn’t worth the risk to continue backloading. When her fears came to fruition, Med was probably resentful about her coach’s poor judgment and didn’t trust them to make the right decisions anymore.

It should be pointed out that, AFAIK, Med has never disputed the results and in this article, stated explicitly that they were correct.

At worst, she and Orser look stupid and defensive. This PR blitz came after she already received a lot of criticism. TCC has done a terrible job trying to spin this especially with that Doug Haw debacle. It’s amazing how unprepared they seemed - you would think that they would have crafted some better statements before talking to the media.

R542 I find that generally when people say that “x skater is always overscored”, they pick and choose what they learn of the scoring system based on the bias they want to support. I can’t comment on any of their other competitions since I don’t care enough about these skaters to want to study them, but I broke the Olympic competition down element for element at one point and the TES scores at the Olympics looked completely fair. People might not find the Eteri programs enjoyable, but that has very little to do with what the guidelines say should get high scores and Eteri knows how to work the system. Even with all the effort I put into studying the system, I often surprise myself with the results when I actually score the event vs. what I think before analyzing the elements

R541 r533 I don’t feel sorry for either of them. I’ve had IBS with a physically demanding job for most of my life. It is inconvenient and uncomfortable but not debilitating and manageable with proper diet and some medication. I’ve never heard of anyone knowing a week in advance whether they’re going to have a diarrhea day, I rarely know even 20 min in advance.

Her season debut was embarrassingly bad so it probably was for the best for everyone involved that she pulled out of the competition but why use such a ridiculous excuse? If this really is the reason she pulled out of the competition, then she might as well retire because unless she has a very minor version, she’s going to have to deal with it all the time. And if it is that minor, then double WTF!

Here, Nobu, Shoma, and Hanyu talk about their diarrhea issues at 3:30. Though this makes me wonder how a competitor having diarrhea when they’re supposed to skate would be handled in competition.

HANYU and UNO R549 In addition to being adopted by the Dai/Mao fans, sections of fandoms are often like cults. The crazies seem to take some perceived cue from their leader and base their opinions on their rivals on that.

I don’t think Dai’s ever said a bad word about Hanyu but the crazies decided that him not being friends with Hanyu meant that Dai must hate him and now manipulate and magnify everything Hanyu does to justify how they already feel. Hanyu on the other hand, has always been extremely warm toward Uno and Fernandez and Jin. While the Hanyu fans might not love the other 3, the criticism is mosly centered around judging and I’ve never heard of them booing or setting up weird hate sites. Same with Patrick and Nathan - their skating is on the opposite ends of the specrum but Patrick has always praised Nathan and now a lot of Patrick’s fans have adopted Nathan.

R546 I wonder how much of their image has been crafted around their personalities vs. how much their public personas are crafted around their image. As a national icon with an idol-like following, Hanyu is always going to be held to different standards. He seemed much more free spirited before his first Olympics. It’s kind of sad.

ABOUT JUDGING

Right now, I’m cutting the judges some slack.

Apparently all 3 of the core bullets are ambiguous which makes huge differences in the score. Before the season started, I thought “effortless” and “good take-off and landing” were pretty clear but the judges, Dave Lease, and some fans seem to have a different interpretation of that bullet than I do. I blame the ISU for releasing the most worthless webinar ever - pointing out the obvious does nothing to help. Other than CanadianSkateGuy (who also claims that Hanyu is not the most famous skater from 2018 Olympics), is there anyone that doubts that Hanyu’s axel is “very good height and distance” while Satoko’s jumps are not - it’s the ones in between that they need to explain.

I take “good takeoff” to mean launched off the correct part of the blade and less than ¼ turn pre-rotated. I don’t understand how it could be interpreted differently but apparently Dave and almost none of the judges agree with me. I’m completely confused as to what qualifies as a poor take-off. If Shoma’s flip is considered good - does the skater have to trip right off the take-off for it to be considered a poor one?

I even tried to ask Dave to clarify how he interpreted these bullets but no answer so far.

Interestingly enough, Shoma got an underrotation call at Lombardia in spite of a good landing. It seems at least 1 tech caller is penalizing him for the pre-rotation. This is the 1 incident where I can see the confusion about how to award “good takeoff” - in this case, if you don’t award the bullet AND the caller devalues the jump, then he’s getting hit with a double whammy on the scores.

The trend I’ve noticed so far, is that when the skater makes mistakes, their scores are close to mine. But when they skate close to their abilities, I give scores that are higher than the judges for elements with pure technique and lower scores than the judges for elements with flaws in the technique. In general, I gave much lower scores on Shoma’s jumps but higher scores on his spins.

This could mean one of 3 things:

I’m wrong about what the bullets mean. A lot of the judges are wrong about the bullets. The judges are unsure and so are hedging their bets by not enforcing the bullets/deductions very strictly so that they can justify their scores in case they’re wrong.

Anyone else thinks her boobs look weird in this costume?

[quote] Shoma got an underrotation call at Lombardia in spite of a good landing. It seems at least 1 tech caller is penalizing him for the pre-rotation

woops. Brain fart. The landing was clearly under rotated. we can commence with the bitching.

r569 They look bigger. I can't imagine that she'd be wearing a padded bra for competition. Maybe it's just a weird angle /lighting.

I think one boob looks bigger than the other, but it must be an effect caused by the decorations on that side of the dress.

That dress us ugly anyway, she needs to change it.

R569 It's the cup from the padded sports bra in her dress. It's too big for her and the dress but the decorations hide one side. Her chest looks much flatter and more uniform in her flapper costume which hangs even lower on her body. She's had the same problems with some of her other dresses but the decorations usually mask them.

R568 Thanks for this interesting post.

[quote]The trend I’ve noticed so far, is that when the skater makes mistakes, their scores are close to mine. But when they skate close to their abilities, I give scores that are higher than the judges for elements with pure technique and lower scores than the judges for elements with flaws in the technique. In general, I gave much lower scores on Shoma’s jumps but higher scores on his spins.

Just so I'm clear on what you mean - do you think that under the new scoring system, judging is more consistent when a skater makes a mistake? By "mistake," do you mean an obvious one like a fall? Or would this also include wrong edge/prerotational issues? Do you think the new system is any better at penalizing/rewarding skaters with flawed technique vs. those with good technique on an element by element basis? Regarding your observations about scoring when a skater goes clean - are you saying that it appears judges aren't judging/scoring elements individually like they're supposed to, but give a kind of average score based on the general quality of the skate?

[quote]reputation + high TES = High PCS boost

Are you still seeing this under the new system? For example, Hanyu's PCS were noticeably low this year at ACI. You can say that this is a result of his flawed skates, but I don't recall his PCS dipping this low before even with previous similarly flawed skates.

Thanks R567 - I had mentioned a video upthread where Hanyu looks indignant when a kid asks him about getting married, and that's IT! (where I also said I wish he could just say he's not interested, the way Shoma can brush off everything and it's "cute" - which I think it is. He's my new life coach lol. "I am what I am and if you don't approve, fuck off")

Hanyu is either a very good actor or at that time, 20 I believe, he thought he probably would follow a traditional life ... but then, he's not Shoma, and he generally gives very "appropriate" answers, so just go with it when 26 seems a lifetime away?

The diarrhea question came up in Kenji's room with Yuzu - Kenji said Kanako had diarrhea when it was time to skate and she was hurting so much she cried. Hanyu laughed and said, "Well, she's stupid. I can say that because we're the same age." (all with laughter and good-heartedness of course.)

I'll never understand the scoring. I read time and time again that the big feds have a lot of influence on the judges. I always wonder how? Do they bribe them, threaten them, have control over who gets asked to go to the choice appointments? And sometimes, like I read about Korea, they are hardest on their own skaters! Such a weird system. I don't know how it could ever be free of human bias and human mistakes. Seems like they used to throw out the top and lowest marks (or am I thinking about another sport)? I guess that's one possible adjustment that might help.

Thanks so much for all the in depth posts R566 plus a few. There are so few places to just vent and let your real feelings show. On PH and GS, I'm scared to even post any more. I think my first attempt involved suggesting that Hanyu may have a chronic problem with his ankle - I use to dance a lot - not as a pro but just as a major hobby - and now I can predict the rain with the rheumatiz in my often-turned ankle. There was only one really bad injury where I was on cruches. Anyway, in my 40s I had to stop dancing every day - and now, it's like 50%.

Now 40s is ancient for skating but I never put the kind of stress on it like a quadster does - just a lot of jive-like hopping and teaching aerobic dancing, which is a lot of jumping up and down. One of my knees is often achey too and I never really had a knee injury. Anyway, everybody's different and sports medicine has come a long way, so maybe he'll be fine -- but like football players often lament, I'd be surprised if these skaters don't spend their 30s onward with a lot of arthritis and aches and pains. Kurt Browning brings it up a lot - he keeps saying things like "Shoma's knees are gonna hate him in about ten years" - that strain and pounding adds up. Micro tears and ligament injuries accumulate instead of completely heal - usually. Well anyway, on that board, everybody had to chime in to ASSURE me he was 100%, never better, of course he was well, healthy, fit as a fiddle and how dare I suggest otherwise.... Oy.

[quote]He seemed much more free spirited before his first Olympics. It’s kind of sad.

Yeah, not just more free spirited, but he always seemed to have a bit of an edge to his personality that he's had to temper (at least publicly) as he's gotten more famous (based on stories from his old coach about what a trouble-maker he was as a kid, other skaters alluding to his aggressiveness and feistiness, slip-ups like the "fuck" at the end of Origin). Would have been entertaining to see more of this side of Hanyu.

I guess Daisuke Murakami's big news is that he's joined the coaching staff at Sherwood Ice Arena in Sherwood, Oregon.

R576, for what it's worth, it became clear to me once he announced that he'd be dropping the 4Lz, that his ankle issue has become chronic. He dropped the Biellmann for the same reason I'm guessing. I think even if people don't say it out loud, they're surely thinking it. But it's no use crying over spilled milk and while Hanyu could have taken better care of himself in order to avoid it, now he's got to make do with what he has. Hopefully he'll make this season as memorable as he wants it to be, given the programs he's chosen and which mean a lot to him.

A typical day at the Palladium de Champery I'm sure - Lambiel signing "Can't Take My Eyes off You" as a palate cleanser after serving gluten free avocado tart. Jesus that Deniss is a lucky bastard.

Looking for a good ass shot, and I ran into this article where it said Hanyu apologized to the late Prince for his really bad short program at the World Team Trophy in 2017. (the little photo - he's got a hip "shelf" thing too in certain angle but it elides into his pretty curvy form most of the time, unlike Rippon's and some others)

I love to watch that team trophy because there's so much interraction to see behind the skating. And Yuzu being so incredibly supportive, it looked like tears were in his eyes for Mai's skate and he was yelling for Wakaba. You don't get to see that sort of thing much. Also, how his team comforted him when he screwed up (ended up 7th in the short and had to skate in the second group out of four for the free - he looked so pissed off, he refused to line up at the start when the skaters are introduced, which I thought was a bit rude, but he was crushed or embarrassed or whatever - he couldn't seem to take it.

Also looking at the top photo, I'm still said about Chris Reed and Kana Muramoto breaking up! It was something ugly and abrupt. He seemed especially shocked. I guess I'll just have to wonder forever what happened, but she seems to be such a sweet girl, I can't help but believe he might have been a jerk (based on really nothing but social media beach scenes and puppies on her Instagram lol.) They had GP assignments for this year, were set to perform at Japan Open just last weekend, and all of a sudden, it was all over.

And I loved that French guy who skated pairs in the event, Francis Boudreau Audet, though the girl Sumire Suto was rubbish. With their multitude of small singles skaters, you'd think he could have found a new partner, he was a looker! But oh well, it is what it is. Last I heard he was looking for a partner in Canada. Considering the dearth of skating pairs, you'd think he'd be quite a good find. His triples were good - she just couldn't land them.

Forgot the link.

And we may need to think about part 10 soon?

R580 Ass and you shall receive.

R579 - thank you for this! Damn is there nothing this gorgeous treasure of a man can't do? There's no way he's straight, he pings in the most delightful way. I'm not sure if Deniss but someone is surely a very lucky fellow....

Oooh that's a great one, thank you R582! You can see his arm muscles in that one - he's sinewy but they're there. His forearms look especially bulky. All that upper body twisting he does to get into the quads. I think that's what makes his skinny chest actually pretty ripped when you look at it - but of course, he doesn't let you look at it anymore. That one's from this past summer - I really noticed he was thicker at the beginning of the Fantasy on Ice series but about midway through, it looked like he was fasting or something and dropped 10 pounds all of a sudden.

This was when he was desperately trying to get his jumps back, so I bet he starved himself, to that end. He's rebounded a bit (I think), weight wise. And good point that the Lutz, even the triple!, seems to be gone - the flip as well? He may bring them back?? He said an interview that it either hurt when he did the toe pick for the Lutz (OR that it made him "uncomfortable" or "afraid" - hard to tell with the different translations)

Dave Lease's ex-female partner used to pick on Yuzu for not pointing his toes. In an article, I read where his trainer had invented an especially tough way of wrapping or binding his ankles before he skated. When she kept harping on that, I kept thinking -- his ankles are probably wrapped so tightly after the dozens of sprains he's had, that he couldn't point his toes if he tried. It's not like perfectionist Yuzu to miss a detail -- unless he physically can't do it.

Aw, nobody has aged better than Stephane Lambiel! And I don't think there's a glimmer of doubt about his sexuality lol. He's lucky to be in western Europe where no one gives a damn. When younger, Johnny Weir was so gloriously and he's still ok but his looks have hardened and he's gotten so in-your-face weird with his clothes and hair that I wonder if he has a mental problem. And other than female besties, he always seems to be alone (social media). Oh well, I hope he's ok. Why did he buy a farm in rural PA??? Hopefully to have some wild ass parties that don't wake up the neighbors.

Buttle is another one who was cute as a button when young - and now, blech. I never thought Orser was cute but to get fat, while skating every day? Weird but ok I guess who cares? I wish him well with Med but I don't see it working out too well. With the onslaught coming in ladies, I don't think it was gonna work out well no matter what. I'd be surprised to see Alina still shining next year either, but I do have a softer spot for her than Med and she's breathtakingly beautiful (Med's pretty too but Alina's a KNOCKOUT). I can't wait to see how things shake out this year - my favorite outcome would be Rika Kihira continuing to land lots of 3As (and maybe intro her 4T) and just run the table.

* Weir so gloriously ADORABLE (when he was just a puppy)

R583 Lambiel basically came out years ago. As I recall, he was accidentally outed by some rag. During an interview, he was asked, "How do you feel about having been outed?" He responded that he was entitled to his privacy and his sexuality was nobody's business. The interviewer then asked if he had a boyfriend and he said "no." That was the extent of it, but seems pretty definitive. I think Lambiel's boyfriend is his and Deniss's manager. I forget his name.

He's so high maintenance who requires a lot of attention and reassurance and emotionally needy. As I noticed, when he does something publicly, he always make sure others people are looking at him. He's also fussy af. He will quickly get pissed off at others if they don't do what he wants or at himself if he fails to do what he demands from himself.

Remember he angrily glared at his mom when he finded out that she gave him 2 right handed gloves at ACI 2017. Like "See the shit you did to me, mom"

Being asked what kind of animal he would be if he had to be one, I think he's right when he said he'd be a cat if "I'm a selfish creature, I work at my own pace and I do what I want"

Yeah well, what price glory? There was a recent survey in Japan to name a Japanese genius, and he was either first or second. And Machida said of him, "Yuzu is the mouse who fights the lion, and wins."

Oh and then there's his bishōnen looks - and his pert ass. We don't have to live with him - just look at him.

and I actually think he's very intelligent and self-aware (thus the cat comment.) He's also said that adults can make compromises but he can't - so he's still just a kid who needs to grow up. Even though Miki Ando said he was a "narcissist in a good way" - narcissists aren't self-aware. He's just a bit neurotic, and otherwise, he wouldn't be the double gold medalist. There's gotta be a downside to so much single-minded drive and perfectionism (and frequent self-flagellation)

[quote] I'll never understand the scoring. I read time and time again that the big feds have a lot of influence on the judges. I always wonder how? Do they bribe them, threaten them, have control over who gets asked to go to the choice appointments? And sometimes, like I read about Korea, they are hardest on their own skaters! Such a weird system.

Technical Panel is appointed by ISU

But judges are usually nominated by Fed themselves. In major Championships ISU draw each judging panel. But they draw Feds rather than individual judges. So they can draw for Men panel, let's say, USA, Japan, Latvia, etc. Then the USA Fed nominate a judge to serve in the event they were drawn, Japan do the same, etc

For GPs the usual practice is to ask Feds of countries with a skater in the event to nominate a judge when they accept the skater's invitation. So all skaters usually have a judge from their own country in the panel (except for some replacements). However, in Pairs and sometimes Dance there are less countries in a GP event than slots on the judging panel, so organizing Fed can have room for some maneuver when filling the vacant judging spots.

In Junior GPs (there are lots of more skaters than a Senior GP) they ask Feds to nominate 1 or 2 judges (depending if they have also entries in Ice Dance). Judges nominated are usually more than 9 per event, so they have to draws with some judging only SP and some only FS

In B competitions, Feds who entered a skater in the competition are usually asked to nominate a judge. Then the organizers compose the panels based on the nominations received (they can invite other judges if the Feds entered are not enough, not willing to send a judge).

Big Feds usually have some "allies", sometimes more based on tradition (judges from East European countries may like the Russian ice dance style regardless of bribes or political influence because they are more used to it). Some of these rumored alliances are long standing (Turkey and Israel with Russia). Some may be ad hoc (you can guess which country China made a deal with at Olympics)

Some advanced the theory it is the same for big training centers, especially for Dance. Basically you take skaters of second tier countries and you gain influence in these Feds and the judges from these Feds will be nicer to your top skaters

[quote] Seems like they used to throw out the top and lowest marks (or am I thinking about another sport)? I guess that's one possible adjustment that might help.

they still drop the highest and lowest PCS mark for each component and the highest and lowest GOE mark for each element.

Thanks R590! It was all just smoke and mirrors to me! And making "deals" among the feds. Just wow - what corruption. But I suppose, what did I expect? (and I'm so stupid I actually can't guess what country China made a deal with, lol - who are their friends? Russia, USA, surely not Japan or Korea ?? Just in general, it feels like China doesn't have friends - or need them - unless it's Africa where they're investing so much. Well, clearly I don't know what I'm talking about...

R591 France for Pairs (for Sui/Han) and Ice Dance (returning the favor on Papadakis/Cizeron)

Oh I see - thanks! I don't follow pairs/dance. I can barely keep up with singles.

And such a pretty boy (my favorite is the 3rd picture with his tongue out). Such broad shoulders! He looks healthy - I think these are new pix.

Thought I'd make a little contribution too.

Made a new thread.

Well my theory: making deals between countries causes the average to go up and so eventually collectively the scores will go up to mirror it and that's how you get other countries to score your Fed's preferred skater higher than due. Seems some judges are pushed into a hive mind or they will be reprimanded for scoring too differently from the other judges. Of course, corridor judging and reputation (believing certain elite skaters deserves certain scores despite what they put out) is part of it. For instance, as the OGM of course Alina must have level 9s/high 8s skating skills. A level 6 or 7 is beneath her and any judges going outside the box to score her that low will be kicked. Though I find it funny that now that the judges decide Zhenya is in the high 8s range for an empty skate fans are shocked as if even when she was with eteri she deserved her 9s in all categories of PCS.

Results for JGP Armenia Ladies SP

Alexandra Trusova 74.19 (Rus)

Alena Kanysheva 67.75 (Rus)

Nana Araki 63.06 (JPN)

Seoyeong Wi 60.36 (KOR)

Alina Urushadze 58.31 (GEO)

Yuhana Yokoi 57.62 (JPN)

Here is Trusova's short

You must not have much of a booty r594.

You can press shirts on Hanyu-san’s ass.

I take offense R599 but let's discuss it on the new thread.