The UK Should Just Cancel Brexit

Nope.

I think Theresa May and the Conservatives would love nothing more. However, it will happen eventually, no matter how watered down it turns out to be.

Why don't they just hold another vote on it? Most of the people did not know what they were voting for. The Trump vote should be held again also. Trump would never win.

The EU was never a well run government and I don't blame the UK for pulling out. When they have to do things like import French cheese and be ordered not to produce their own cheese, that's taking it too far. The EU rules became ridiculous burdens.

R3: To be honest, if it was held again you’d probably get the same result. The biggest demographic that voted for the UK to pull out were the over-65s. Basically all the old duffers who were bitter about how the country had changed over the last twenty-five years (immigration).

They did have legitimate concerns that had been ignored. However, pulling out could be a big mistake in the long run.

I don't think it would get the same result. There was a lot of bitterness over the way they were played. There is still a hard core that hasn't changed their minds but a lot of the mushy middle would vote the other way now.

The UK should never have been in it, but once it was in it should have stayed. The EU has benefitted those on both side of the Channel despite the EU’s over regulation and bureaucracy.

Why isn't Theresa May a gay icon?

[quote]Why isn't Theresa May a gay icon?

Because she can't dance and has no fashion style.

Bump

March 2019 is it, right?

Yup, unless all of the countries agree on an extension.

R4 what on earth are you talking about, the UK produce cheddar in large quantities, nobody is holding a gun against their head to force them to eat camembert!

The british media has been complaining about EU each time something is wrong in UK even when the EU has nothing to do with it... It's just a scapegoat, plus the British have no idea how they benefit for the EU because they've been living in it since 1973 and I've no idea what they voted for. Most of them don't remember the life "before" joining, and since we asked them to loosen the links with the Commonwealth to prioritise on the EU members, they're going to feel very lonely...

In France we sometime blame EU for some stuff without checking if it's really EU who should be to blame, but nobody tell us how much we pay each month to the EU or how much we get in return, because we somehow expect to be well off compare to Greece or Portugal (or Italy, Spain, etc...) and give more money than we get in return.

I love her breezy air of incompetence, superiority, and lack of self-awareness.

And those leopard print shoes she keeps wearing. Arlene or Nicola could never pull them off.

I don't understand why they couldn't just renegotiate the issues they were having within the EU & not set this bomb off that will likely have ripple effects for decades that people can't even foresee now. It's going to be an acute bureaucratic and diplomatic nightmare for the next 5 years, and who knows what beyond that. Not to mention, the election was tampered with by fake news from Russia, which makes the whole thing even worse.

I feel heartily sorry for May, she is in an impossible position of delivering the undeliverable. Having said that she must have know what a shambles this would be, and how impossible her task, such is the blindness of ambition ( see also B Johnson ). Brexit is Britains' Trump and supported by the same kind of people who voted that freak in, the disgruntled old, the racists and the dim and of course it should be cancelled. What will most likely happen is some kind of fudged compromise that will please no-one and will leave the country poorer and with less influence. I'd be quite happy to hand the whole mess over to the most swivel eyed Brexiteers, make sure they are totally happy with their deal and watch it turn to shit. I think we are going to have to hit rock bottom and start again, as it stands they will never admit this was a dumb idea and blame 'Remoaners' for hampering their dream.

The satanists who own the NY Fed, the ECB, etc, hate Brexit because it interferes with their dream of one single world government.

Brexit is such a clusterfuck, I think even the dimmest of the dim who initially voted for it are starting to see what a mess it is.

Britain actually had the sweetest deal in the EU -- lots of extras like a contribution rebate, no Euro membership, no Schengen open borders -- and now they're heading straight for a no cherry-picking/ no agreement cliff.

How stupid. Only the biggest racists and the most reactionary Tory toffs (many of whom are the same people) are actually looking forward to what Brexit really means.

r9 But the curtsies! She's like no other.

What a mess. It seems like one big scam. Just cancel it already.

Kicked out of the Dangling Tendrils thread.

Okay, May's plan has to pass Parliament but why should it if half the members are from another party? And the EU Parliament has to vote on it as well??? Madness.

Can they have another referendum on it? When's the soonest they can vote on it again, what would be the political or legal barrier to this?

What are the problems? I don’t doubt you have them, but I don’t know what they are.

The UK and EU have agreed a Brexit deal.

One massive problem is the border between Northern Ireland and Ireland. They're quite used to just driving from one to the other with no hassle. But BREXIT means one is in the EU and one is not.

If the Cabinet resigns does that mean a new election?

Here is a new thread.

R26: Only if she can't form a new one, or if she does and the House of Commons votes no confidence....and if she decides to have one as opposed to resigning and telling the Queen to find a new prime minister to form a government...who must then survive a confidence motion in the House of Commons..

Parliamentary systems on the British Westminster model are very convention oriented, there's no written roadmap for how they work in these situations...

Dont know why link at r27 leads to Dangling Tendrils, must be a glitch in the matrix.

With some figleaf "exit" deal that is no exit at all May will sell out the UK and keep the land as a colony of the EU, but eventually the people will have their say.

Well, that's exactly the position the craven Tories and the lying Brexiteers have ridden the English into, isn't it, r30? De facto EU membership, but with fewer rights, or a crash-and-burn hard Brexit that will decimate the UK economy for decades to come.

Why not make a rousing movie about that? I can just see BoJo's fat ass on a horse...

OP, you're hilarious. How long did it take you to work this out?

Everybody I know of who supports Brexit, both from family and acquaintances, have one thing in common, they are all cunts. Obsessed with immigration, banging on endlessly about suffocation from EU red tape, tho unable to name one piece of legislation that has the slightest impact on them, and generally the uptight sort you are either embarrassed to be speaking with due to their dimness or actively repulsed by their narrow-minded, jingoistic zealotry. These idiots have fucked up the country and it's totally depressing.

Immigration was a problem in the UK long before Merkel's open border policy.

If they go through with Brexit, the UK will become a lawless, dirty money and corruption riddled shithole.

Immigration in Europe IS NOT A PROBLEM, IT’S A NECESSITY!

There’s a zero birth rate these countries have to fill in with immigrants. It’s the same in the US and Canada, no matter what Trumo blathers on about.

You don't want immigrants that are hard to integrate or are even hostile to the country they immigrate to. This is clearly the case in Europe with the millions of male migrants from the Middle East.

The UK always had this problem and now they have towns with concentrated migrant populations that are totally separate in culture and value to the UK.

They themselves are responsible for this problem, it has nothing to do with the EU.

Fuck the Dangling Tendrils bullshit here. Brexit is a horrid idea, and every effort should be made to forestall any moving forward. It is at least a positive that the Tories and Pro-Brexiteers are not on board with this particular agreement. I agree the immigration issues began long before the EU. I'm no fan of May, yet hope for a good outcome, though it seems impossible the EU can allow Britain to carve out separate trade deals and appease everyone. Most British probably don't realise all the long-standing benefits gained even from the old EEC.

R35: AMEN!!! They need immigrants as do we as does Japan if they ever get their heads out of their asses. But you can't reason with racist trash.

A major hurdle has been cleared: the Cabinet has backed May's Brexit plan.

I don't think the Leave voters are going to be thrilled.

The Americans are being taxed to death to pay they way for all the illegal immigrants, which is why their birth rate is so low. That's why they aren't having kids, they're too busy working to pay doer everyone else's. ✔️TAX ✔️TAX ✔️TAX ✔️TAX

R40, Leave voters won't be thrilled, but there won't be much they can do about it. I think this will put paid to any further talk about another referendum.

I think the only realistic option is to remain. Now, I admit I'm biased - I voted remain in the first place - but hear me out. From what I can see, there are three options:

- No deal. This would mean chaos. The prospect of food and medicine shortages alone is enough to make this a no-go.

- Accept May's deal. Remainers will, of course, be unhappy, but Leavers will be furious - they didn't vote to leave the EU just to become worse off than they were before.

- Remain. Leavers will be furious, but like I said, they're going to be unhappy whatever happens.

Slightly off topic observations -

One, Britain deserves this for all the snotty we-are-your-social-betters attitude towards EU the past four decades

Two, May deserves this for sacrificing whatever political principle she had by hiding her Remain position to become PM, stabbing Cameron in the back

A second referendum is now looking increasingly likely

Oh, r44, honey, you need to read a paper or something. Any news medium will do.

1) May campaigned for Remain before the referendum, although she was never enthusiastic about the EU.

2) May stabbing Cameron in the back? When his hypocrisy and cowardice in facing down UKIP and the Brexiteers while he was PM ia what led to the whole referendum fiasco in the first place? When he jumped ship -- just like all the leading Brexiteers -- basically the day after the referendum, when they all suddenly realized "Oh shit! Those dumbass voters actually believed the fairy tale, and now we're expeced to deliver!" ?

Brexit is a game being played by some very wealthy deluded Tories, mostly educated at elite schools, most of who want at some stage to be Prime Minister. Economic hardship resulting from Brexit will not affect them.

The most enjoyable thins in this sad state of affairs is the fact that the idea that former colony Ireland and permanent Achilles heel of the Empire should be the reason for the inability to agree a deal with the UK, and the likes of Jacob Rees-Mogg( father of Peter Theodore Alphege ,Mary Anne Charlotte Emma , Thomas Wentworth Somerset Dunstan, Anselm Charles Fitzwilliam , Alfred Wulfric Leyson Pius , Sixtus Dominic Boniface Christopher) being incandescent with rage that the Irish are ruining his Brexit dreams.

Tracey Ullman was bang on about this entire lot from May to Mogg to Michael Gove and so on.

May 's cabinet resignations have started.

No love for any of the Tories here r46. I said May was a Remainer who pretended to be a Leaver in order to become PM.

May was a Remainer in name only before the referendum, and she never stabbed anyone in the back.

She was pushed to the glass cliff of helming the no-win Brexit by the fact that, as noted above, all the men actually responsible (if you can use that word for the vortex of irresponsibility that was the pro-Brexit campaign) ran offstage as soon as it became obvious that their lies were going to be exposed.

No love for May, who is a totally charisma- and vision-free politician, but she was handed a shit sandwich, and she's going to be PM just long enough to get all the blame others deserve.

[quote]The UK Should Just Cancel Brexit

No, you don't get to ignore the results of a vote just because you don't like the result unless there was actual voter fraud (something not widely viewed to be true in the Brexit vote).

And while there has been documented cases where the votes in some of the midterm elections were actually changed by the machines (surprise, to favor rethugs), none of the claims made by rethugs unhappy with the outcomes has come close to being verified - merely an attempt to invalidate their losses.

No chance of a second referendum. It was never going to happen. Just wishful thinking by Remainers.

Maybe the Conservatives will soon cancel Teresa May!

The referendum was explicitly non-binding, r52, so there is no procedural impediment to holding a second referendum.

Especially because the "pass" threshold for a referendum on such a fundamental issue is normally at least 60%, often 2/3, whereas only about 52% of those who bothered to vote voted in favor of Brexit. And more recent surveys show a clear shift in sentiment, with a majority of British voters now favoring Remain.

R52, do not dissemble!

The vote to which you refer was strictly advisory and dealt only with the concept of Brexit. It was not a binding vote on any particular proposal, language or legislation.

The pro-Brexit vote was less than 52% of the votes cast. All of Scotland, all of London, and nearly all of Northern Ireland voted to remain in the EU.

Do not come here spouting nonsense that there is a clear mandate for Brexit, or that an established legal process demands it. Neither of those things are true. To Brexit or not to Brexit is far too serious a matter than should be pushed through by a collapsing Tory government.

Sense would dictate that if the result was foolish , and it was, the country should be able to rescue itself from such self harm R52 . Unfortunately the powers that be wouldn't allow sense to prevail , the establishment never backtracks for fear of losing control. The referendum was ridiculous and based on a Tory obsession that has festered for decades, sadly Tory greed at keeping control meant UKIP little englanders frightened them into this stupid situation, they should have at least set a 60%/40% limit for such a drastic prospective change , the fact the thing was swung by a few % guaranteed strife. There will be no consolation seeing the old cunts of Eastbourne et al scrabbling to panic buy and moaning about lack of everything once this shit show collapses. they will of course find a way to blame 'remoaners' for sabotaging their 'freedom from the shackles of the EU' and other 'will of the people' bullshit they feed on and spew. This was an obvious disaster before it happened and the sensible being able to say 'I told you so' is cold comfort.

Team Merkel.

The EU will work better without the UK. They never fit in.

Brexit should be revoked. May will NEVER be able to craft an acceptable deal. They are just wasting everyone's time by not calling the second referendum

did they buy a zoo?

R55, a second referendum. Ain’t gonna happen. Enough already,

It's either that or devastation for Britain R62. May is incompetent and will never get a deal. So the only patriotic option is a second referendum

But it won’t happen, R63. Remoaners aren’t entitled to get a second referendum just because they didn’t like the result the first time. Suck it up.

I assume you voted to leave R64 , one of the 'will of the people' types? What would your ideal outcome to this colossal shitfest be? Personally I'd like the deal to be put exclusively in the hands of the most hardcore, swivel-eyed, immigrant fearing Brexiteers, so that when it all tanks they can't blame 'remoaners'.

She should have followed Donald Trump's advice and sued the EU.

[quote]Do not come here spouting nonsense that there is a clear mandate for Brexit, or that an established legal process demands it. Neither of those things are true. To Brexit or not to Brexit is far too serious a matter than should be pushed through by a collapsing Tory government.

I never said there was a "clear mandate." I will concede that the vote was non-binding, as well as many of the people voting did so simply because they believed it would not pass. But, I also believe that in many parts of the world, we will not see overwhelming majorities for any votes any time soon on most issues.

Personally, I think that Brexit was always a flawed and stupid idea. The fact that they continue to try to enact it has more to do with their inability to extricate themselves from the mess and save face than from a desire to actually exit. Even having the vote was clearly intended as a political move to achieve - well, exactly what it did. None of those fools pushing for it actually wanted it. They merely recognized the ability to play on the ignorance and prejudice of a large swath of the population.

The only good I can see coming from this mess is better integration in the future as people begin to feel the negative consequences of leaving - and the pro arguments are vividly illustrated.

But r56, you need to take it down a notch, especially since you clearly have your own agenda that doesn't include a useful discussion.

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r67 -- I'm not r56, but cut them a break: I assume that r56 is somewhere in the UK, and thus I fully understand why s/he is panicked by the clusterfuck they're hurtling towards.

Their tone may be agitated, but they are materially correct.

Of course it's a mess. Of course it doomed. That's what you get when you try blind nationalism in this day and age of interconnectedness.

Stop linking to the Daily Fail, r68-70. No one wants to give that right-wing rag clicks, not even to mock May.

[quote][R67] -- I'm not [R56], but cut them a break: I assume that [R56] is somewhere in the UK, and thus I fully understand why s/he is panicked by the clusterfuck they're hurtling towards.

Why? I'd actually argue that the more serious a situation is, the more calm and rational one needs to be to respond in a manner that actually achieves one'es goals, rather than merely antagonizing people.

As many DL threads prove, it is impossible to gain any understanding when one ascribes their own values and interpretation to others'.

The fact that r56 didn't bother to read my post and simply assumed I supported the brexit idiocy as policy simply demonstrates why the idiocy continues to barrel forward. What is required is a congent argument, well articulated, and compellingly delivered.

Remember how pissed Michelle Obama was at Barack for taking selfie with the Danish PM during Mandela's funeral? He's at it again with Angela Merkel.

Angela for UK PM. Everyone loves this Frau!

She's holding a news conference at 5pm. Either she's going to resign or she's going to give her usual meaningless "we will fight on" spiel.

A "congent (sic) argument, well articulated, and compellingly delivered" will do no good at all when you're dealing with Brexit supporters, who -- as r47 pointed out -- are mix of wealthy deluded Tories who will personally be unaffected by the economic turmoil of Brexit, and aging, minimally-educated Little Englanders nostalgic for an imaginary Miss Marple universe.

However, good arguments (and the increasing evidence of just what a disaster this whole adventure has been) may persuade rational voters to turn out and actually vote (against) if a second referendum on the topic is held.

Never forget - David Cameron tweeted this just one year before he held the EU referendum:

She'll resign she doesn't want to be leader post Brexit. She had to be persuaded by her husband not to resign after the last General Election when the tories majority was almost wiped out. Her attitude is 'Brexit stinks, I didn't want it, but I have a duty to deliver it, and this is the best I could get you. I'm not fighting for the leadership or another election. Ta-ra!'

Never forget. The face of leadership.

A second referendum should have 4 options

1) leave without any deal and rely on WTO ruled to trade with europe.

2) remain under current status.

3) leave with the current deal agreed to with the EU.

4) remain with a new deal within the EU on immigration.

I think if the last one was with a the Eu offering opt outs on immigration for all eu nations then maybe remain would win.

DL Fave Jacob Rees-Mogg press conference this morning, denies wanting to be PM, lying.

Of course the human stick insect is lying, r82. They all are, and have been all along.

Lol at the man with the loudhailer yelling Stoooop Breeexit

Yeah, thank God we didn't elect someone who looked a bit weird while eating a sandwich, R80. That would undoubtedly have led to unmitigated disaster.

The customs union with Ireland is a massive problem.

I will laugh my fucking ass off if Ireland reunites after this shitshow.

[quote]Immigration in Europe IS NOT A PROBLEM, IT’S A NECESSITY! There’s a zero birth rate these countries have to fill in with immigrants. It’s the same in the US and Canada, no matter what Trumo blathers on about.

Immigration is a necessity. Uncontrolled mass immigration is not.

Don't confuse the issues.

5:10pm and she still hasn't spoken yet

Hopefully she's on the phone to the Queen handing her notice in.

She's pulling on her shiny bitch boss boots

20 minutes late! That bitch better get her skates on, I need to pee!

She's definitely up to something.

BBC has been live from this press conference for the last 25 mins and she's still not turned up.

This is the nation’s future we’re talking about. I don’t live in the UK so perhaps I’m missing the intricacies.

Nevertheless it seems to me that if there was a [italic] non-binding [/italic] referendum, that passed with a tiny margin, and, as was said above, a majority of the population now opposes the result, why shouldn’t there be a second vote?

If it comes out the same way - now that people are baetter informed - proceed.

However if, as now appears likely, it comes out solidly anti-Brexit, then call the whole shit-show off. Many will object to reversing course, but they’ll be in the minority.

This is her resignation

[quote]why shouldn’t there be a second vote?

Because all those who voted Brexit would riot

After all that she's not resigning! She just repeated what she said last night.

FFS. Well the deal will be voted down in the Commons and she'll resign then

Riot? No more so than the remainers.

From what I’ve read, both sides seem angry.

Boris Johnson and the Pig Fucker should be drawn and quartered for this.

R68 Mutton dressed as lamb. Should have been slaughtered years back.

R86 Irish unity would be worth Brexit. That travesty has gone on far too long.

Former Brexit Secretary Daddy Dominic Raab is quite fetching.

I like David Davis’ looks.

According to this new Sky News poll, 52% want to remain, 32% want no deal and only 14% want May's deal.

A deal that has to be made that neither side wants. Tories need to quit and move to the US en masse. Vermin.

BRexit will be a disaster and The Leavings should be ashamed that they allowed themselves to be so easily messed with.

Teresa May is a charisma free, dried out hag. British leadership for the past few years has been shameful and the lack of new blood in politics should make them wonder what the hell is wrong with their populace. Get some new blood into politics. These people are destroying your country.

I'm not too worried about it. As with all such negotiations, something will be hammered out at the last minute.

I wish I shared your optimism, R107. I would not trust the Tories as far as I could throw them.

May needs to go but not until January 1. I've put down money on her finishing out the year.

R107, the negotiations have ended, the last minute for them has already happened.

[quote] According to this new Sky News poll, 52% want to remain, 32% want no deal and only 14% want May's deal.

Is no deal even an option? I can't imagine.

She can’t get this through Parliament. It’s mathematically impossible. So a No Deal looks most likely. Which would be a disaster for the UK.

And btw, 1.6M more voters voted to Leave, 750,000 voters of that majority are already dead.

The whole thing is an exercise is complete and total futility.

R15 Cameron DID try to renegotiate various EU rules. He said that if he couldn't get certain concessions, then he'd call a referendum on EU membership. Brussels essentially laughed in his face when he asked for concession so he had to call the referendum.

R113 Nearly a million Leave voters are dead? BTW fuck off.

R93 Because in reality it wasn't a non-binding referendum. It was a legal and democratic vote where a clear majority voted to Leave the EU. You can't ignore the will of the people and through it into Parliament for a vote without serious consequences. As to the majority, it was 4 percentage points, about 1.3 million with 33 million votes cast. It wasn't slim. Slim suggests the need for a recount. There wasn't one. Also people were more than informed about what Brexit meant. The government, who were for remaining, spent £9million of ratepayer's money sending a leaflet to EVERY household in the UK. The leaflet said that leaving the EU would mean leaving the single market, the CU, and the ECJ. They even produced a picture version for those with learning disabilities (my parents' neighbour received one for her autistic son). The Remain side also trotted out the governor of the BoE to say that leaving would send the country into a recession and 800,000 jobs would be lost (that didn't happen of course). He also said that if Leave won he'd have to raise interest rates (he didn't). People were informed/warned about what leaving meant, the majority still voted for it. Don't get me wrong, Vote Leave told some porkies too but Remain ran a campaign that has since been dubbed Project Fear for all the horrors they said a leave vote would bring about.

I just hope that if there is a No Deal then the pound will crash hard against the dollar in time for my trip over there next month.

R115 Democracy sounds great until you let the stupid people decide.

I believe that these people were also lied to, R117.

No deal I'm guessing. Best to just leave. Start a new life.

Do you live in the UK, R119?

R116 Fuck off selfish bastard.

Theres not enough MPs for a no deal scenario, probably new ref, election or an extension of article 50 if the other 27 EU nations agree.

Welcome, Jacob Rees-Mogg at r115, bringing further truthful and compelling arguments for Brexit!

Enjoy the theatre from your manor, and don't worry about trivialities like those measly £350 million per week your lot promised the ignorant, unwashed masses for the NHS after Brexit -- they'll be too busy picking crops and queuing up for their scarce imported medications to do the math anyway.

Pip pip, cheerio indeed!

They should go to referendum in this plan.

R122, a no deal isn't something parliament can vote against - it will be the result of what happens if the UK and EU don't agree a deal before 29 March 2019 (in reality, before the end of this year at the very latest). Then out we crash.

What happens if there is no deal?

The UK is now tied to a catastrophically idiotic decision won by idiots. People didn't know what they were voting for R115 and they still don't, because people are fucking stupid. A woman my niece works with , a fully mature, functioning adult, tried to vote at a betting shop, she had no clue how or where or why to vote ( despite the millions spent by both sides ) but decided to vote out anyway . Others thought immigrants would vanish overnight so voted according to that encouraged prejudice. This is a total mess, 'project fear' was dismissed sarcastically by Daily Mail reading 'patriots' full of ' the will of the people', we are now seeing project reality and it's horrific. You Brexit shitbags have ruined the country. We should admit this was all madness, the pipe dream/twisted obsession of Tory EU haters.

R125 if no deal looks likely emergancy legistration will be brought forward to stop no deal in the form of requesting an extension to article 50 process, or a second referendum.

The sensible trying would have been to hammer out an agreement and then hold a referendum based on that.

That never could have happened, r129, because all the politicians who would have been capable of hammering out a halfway workable agreement were by definition competent and well-informed people (and there were and are too few of those). Anyway, all those people were dead set against Brexit from the start, precisely because they knew the UK already had the sweetest deal in the EU, and pulling out would be a lose/ lose proposition.

Unfortunately, those people didn't make a convincing case against Brexit beforehand, and now we're all fucked.

This isnt the deal this is the insurance policy incase we don't get a future trade deal with the EU. Its a two part process everyone knew that and yet everyone is acting as if this is it 1) it settles eu and uk nationals status within the uk and eu 2) it creates an insurance policy incase we cannot reach an trade agreement with the eu 3) it settles all the pensions for uk staff within the eu and for eu scientific and diplomatic programs the uk has interest in funding and had agreed to fund before the referendum 4) it sets out the period of an transition period

Everyone is acting as if whatever future trade deal we persue the eu will not ask for an agreement on leaving if we want canada plus or left on wto regulations the eu would still persue as part of the article 50 process 1) an insurance of no border (hard border is an useless term what is meant for the average person in ireland is borderless travel) 2) payments for commitments the uk agreed before the referendum to fufill 3) status for eu nationals in the uk and uk nationals within the eu

If the uk where to leave without an agreement on how to leave uk nationals in europe would find themselves without any legal protections what so ever and if we were not to pay for the commitments we agreed to prior to and post referendum the eu could and would sue and that £39bn price would rise

This is the best of a shitshow situation 40 years of political economic and cultural intergration are not easily undone and will take time and patience to be done correctly or not done at all.

Brexit should be cancelled. Leavers haven't met any basic standard of a plan. They never had any reasonable alternative. Blame May if you want, she brought this on herself, but no one could ever produce a good Brexit deal because Brexit is a fundamentally idiotic idea. It's like trying to make lemonade out of horse shit

R120 No I do not live in the U.K. What gave be away? No don't answer.

This has been a rolling, years-long embarrassment for the UK.

Just admit it isn't working, do a new referendum and move on from this costly mess.

Or just cut out of the EU and muddle through the economic and political consequences until a new equilibrium is created. Probably say good-bye to Scotland, too.

Suppose there were a second referendum and Brexit was approved again. It's hardly out of the question. In any event, the government is dead-set against another vote, regardless of the disruption of the Brexit process.

[quote] Or just cut out of the EU and muddle through the economic and political consequences until a new equilibrium is created.

That's the best way I think. Stay true to British character and destiny. Build London as the singapore of the west. Take care of the rest as hinterland. Outlaw the Tories for gross incompetence. Have the lib Dems and labor deal with the high levels of poverty. Set Scotland and ulster free. Revive the Princess of Wales title for George. Behead BoJo in the Tower of London.

Brexiteer Nadine Dorries has complained that May's deal gives the UK "no MEPs, no commissioner, no votes". I'm intrigued as to WTF she thought leaving the EU would actually entail.

Please stay home R116. You are not welcome with that attitude.

You are factually wrong [R114] there was always going to be a referendum after the tories won in 2015 and it taking place was not contingent on what was offered in a deal by the EU in 2016. To make such an error makes me wonder if you really live in the UK?

R115 is factually incorrect about every claim he makes. He must be a piece of red-faced gammon.

This time don't let the Russians hack the election.

What worries me is Britains standing in the world, were what the sixth most powerful nation in the world that will inevitability go down as newly industrialised nations grow and without EU support are global reputation and standing will become less important.

Yes all self inflicted [R142]

Yes England will go from one of the most powerful nations in the world to a third rate power entirely dependent on the US' charity. It's sad

This is hilarious. Spain is threatening to veto the exit deal unless the UK agrees to negotiate over Gibraltar. News stories keep saying that Ireland will be the only land border between the EU and UK, but they forget about poor little Gibraltar, a British possession.

R144 Right. Good luck with that Spain. The people of Gibraltar do not want anything to do with Spain. It has been voted in favour of Britain three times. They have no desire for any dual administration either. I don't believe it up to them at all really. To use a popular DL phrase, Spain needs to stay in her lane!

You're a Brexit fan then R146? If so, what's wrong with you?

UK DLers, can you kindly list the top 3 issues you believe are sucking the life out of May as she drags herself back and forth to Brussels to negotiate the exit.

One reads many accounts which ultimately lead only to more confusion. (Like the false claims here that Spain has its claws in Gibraltor.).

R147 However do you (wrongly) infer I'm some mad Brexiteer, simply because I object to Spain trying to re-negociate an already settled debate, and codified in law that Gibraltar is British territory, and not open to further debate? I believe in self determined dominion, the people of Gibraltar have spoken they do not want Spain involved with their self-determination.

My post at R146 should have been originally directed toward R145, not R144. Nevertheless, Gibraltar is settled business. Do people wish to try to blackmail Britain into giving up the Falkland Islands too? A load of utter tosh to attempt to use such "bargaining chips", no matter how rotten Brexit is.

I have a Spanish friend at work, and he occasionally argues that Gibraltar should be Spanish. Pointing out that it was legally ceded to Britain, and that the residents don't want to be part of Spain, doesn't sway him at all on the point.

They've voted three times R151, never more than a tiny minority ever voted that way. They renounced dual-administration twice before also. Your friend is a rare bird, who doesn't reside there, so of course he wants it for Spain.

UK and EU agree to the nature of their future relationship. I think the additional clarity will help with the Parliamentary vote.

R149 Happy for you if you don't suffer from Brexit-sm, but the whole sovereignty thing is a Brexit obsession, very Sir Bufton Tufton writing into the Telegraph complaining of Spaniards trying to get their continental hands on Gibraltar!

You were saying ? R149

And and the other EU countries have approved the terms of the deal.

That's to be agreed by Parliament R156 which is where the fun will really start, and off course these agreements are just the divorce, we then have to re-negotiate our position within the EU. Meanwhile, real life has been going on and getting less attention ( and money ) than it needs because of this worthless bullshit, such fun, thanks Torys, thanks Brexiteers, you rotted old cunts.

They need to cancel it or do it. They're being in limbo for years isn't doing any good.

The PM should promise anything she needs to to just get over the finish line and complete Brexit and be done with it. Afterward, the UK can start unilaterally making the changes necessary to end ongoing EU hegemony.

"They're being in limbo for years isn't doing any good."

I can't believe I wrote that. WTF? Why even include "they're" which isn't necessary and not even the correct spelling. Even "their" wouldn't be necessary.

On a personal level, I hope some sort of freedom of movement gets preserved. I'll be eligible for a British passport in 2023 and want to be able use it to live in other EU countries.

...........

Well...

If May's ramshackle agreement , which is plainly worse than what we have, limps through Parliament as some kind of half baked compromise that everybody hates but has to be endured just to save face ( look we did Brexit! ) , it will be the single most stupid mistake the country has ever made. As it stands it doesn't have the Parliamentary votes, but the DUP and uptight Tories could easily be won over with some red meat bribery disguised as concessions . That would be a pathetic betrayal for all concerned. I hope sense will prevail.

[quote] They need to cancel it or do it. They're being in limbo for years isn't doing any good

"Limbo" was the scheme. Drag it out long enough so instead of carrying out the directive of the referendum vote they can finally just do "something" to get it over with. "Something" that btw keeps England a EU colony.

[quote]On a personal level, I hope some sort of freedom of movement gets preserved. I'll be eligible for a British passport in 2023 and want to be able use it to live in other EU countries.

I have a passport from an EU country and I'm hoping the same, sort of - I hope other Europeans will be able to live in the UK. But I am skeptical that an arrangement like that will be possible once the link is broken.

R165: So stay in and vote in European Parliamentary elections to have a say, you whiny bitch. Jesus Christ, you're not going to leave your largest trading partner. You will be affected by them, one way or another. And BTW, there is more to the UK than ENGLAND, you myopic slag.

Once the agreement passes in the Parliament (and it will, for the reasons R164 stated), it's back to the negotiating table, right? And how long will that take?

Are white collar workers in the UK freaked out about having to stand in the "Non-EU Passport" lines with the rest of us?

[quote]The PM should promise anything she needs to to just get over the finish line and complete Brexit and be done with it. Afterward, the UK can start unilaterally making the changes necessary to end ongoing EU hegemony.

Shows how idiotic Brexiters are. What the hell is one country going to do against a massive bloc? UK will have NO leverage over the EU. The EU will have a much larger economy and more people.

[quote]What the hell is one country going to do against a massive bloc?

Probably the same things other countries that are not part of the EU do.

And it’s not like their going to negotiate a better trade deal after they leave

R171 Small countries that try to trade with the US or EU always end up with shitty deals. They need the deals more and have less to offer.

For example, when the UK wants a deal with the US, US negotiators will rightfully say, "A deal gives your companies access to 350 million consumers here in the US, I only get access to 60 mill in the UK, therefor I want X,Y, and Z to compensate."

The US' economy is also stable on it's own so it can walk away from the deal. Not so with post Brexit UK. There's a reason the smaller Asian countries all team up when they try for trade deals, all know they would be far weaker on their own.

The UK has really fucked itself over

UK will get pummeled from EU on this, as well as future treaties with the US etc.

Everyone smells blood in the water. Making London the "Singapore of the West" is OK in the short-term but I don' t see the population living with non-reciprocity (all tax breaks and nothing back in the general welfare??), inevitable business corruption for extended period of time.

[quote]There's a reason the smaller Asian countries all team up when they try for trade deals

Japan and South Korea as an example, are not part of ASEAN.

And the UK will create and join partnerships and trade bloc agreements just as other countries do.

The UK will continue to be (along with the US) the worlds financial hub.

R175 but when the TPP was being negotiaten, Japan and SK teamed up with all of the smaller members, because that's what you have to do.

Who will the UK form a bloc with? They need deals with the US and EU.

Flake is actually in decent shape. And is relatively handsome.

So you're saying the UK should offer Jeff Flake citizenship, r177, and then Brexit will take care of itself? Or what?

wrong thread lmao my bad

R155 I do not see how that line explains her statements or position on the matter of [italic] sovereignty [/italic] , unless you skipped reading the article.

She's obviously prepared to fuck them over in a way the people of Gibraltar wouldn't want R180, sadly she is so desperate to get this thing through she is prepared to do whatever helps her cobble a fudge together. The can of worms this idiotic vote opened means everything is subject to change, Scotland continues to inch toward their own departure, the Ireland situation is a mess,Gibraltar is small fry in all this, just another ingredient in this shit stew.

I know I'm in a minority on this, but I think that May's agreement will be approved by Parliament. Nobody likes it, but as the vote approaches they will face up to the fact that there is nothing else on offer, and that crashing out would be worse. Just watch - as it comes down to the wire cooler heads will prevail.

I can't stop thinking though - where is Malcolm Tucker when he is needed most?

You may be right, R182. At the moment, anything seems possible.

It frustrates me that the same people who've been banging on about Remain voters being elitist are now saying, "So what if Brexit is bad for the economy? I don't care about the money." If you can afford to shrug off a hit to the economy like that, you must be in a very privileged position.

#VicarGate! This is crazy.

Just pull the plug. Nobody wants this except foreigners.

WOW R185 thanks for sharing

I saw that freaks' appearance on Newsnight , it was a panel of 3 Remain and 3 Leave, it was obvious which was which. The Leavers comprised of white van man ( who was actually articulate and not a typical 'will of the people' moron ) an old woman in a yellow cardigan who was practically silent but gave off a very strong stench of 'will of the people' moron and then the 'vicar', a balding, 'send 'em back home' Tory of indecipherable gender. Lynn was so bizarre I checked Twitter to see reaction and a people did query her credentials ( aswell as one congratulating the BBC on finding Britain's most Un-Christian Christian) so am not surprised to see this revealed.

Something has to give with Britain voting for Brexit, and if I were to guess, I would say that in the next generation or two, after hard-line Protestants cede some local political control, Northern Ireland will either vote for independence or union with the Republic.

Why? Geographically, it makes the most sense for the six counties to join the rest of Ireland, especially if Ireland has loosened its bonds with the Catholic Church and kept those with Europe strong.

That said, at the moment, the controlling Democratic Unionist Party is firm in maintaining the North’s ties to Britain, even if it means leaving the European Union and creating a hard border with Ireland. But if these issues were to threaten a rerun of the Troubles, I doubt England would struggle to keep the North any more than Ulster would take up arms to remain in the United Kingdom. In the twenty-first century, franchise capitalism counts for more than religious grievances.

In the meantime, all anyone in the North wants is to keep the good times coming. It wants more tourists, more trade, better agriculture, and even, selectively, more immigrants to revive neighborhoods or dilapidated farms.

It is possible that the United Kingdom, as we know it, will survive Brexit and that Northern Ireland, Wales, and Scotland will stand beside England in what is not its finest hour. (If she were alive, historian Barbara Tuchman could add a chapter on Brexit to her splendid book, The March of Folly.) It’s also possible, down the road, that Scotland will vote for independence and Northern Ireland will devolve further from British rule.

For now, I think it is less likely that Ireland will return to the Troubles, just as I think it is most likely that the United Kingdom will retain its constituent countries.

MPs found May's government to be in contempt of parliament, so they have to publish the legal advice on the Brexit deal. Technically, this means that members of the cabinet could be locked in the clock tower of Big Ben. Sadly, that law hasn't been enforced since the 1800s.

Although I'm American, I've become fascinated by the ongoing Brexit slow-motion train wreck from a political process viewpoint. I think lesson #1 to be gained from all this is that a democracy should never, ever attempt to govern by referendum. That can only be a mistake. I don't care one way or another if the UK leaves the Union, but either way I think a second referendum would just compound the mistakes.

Supposedly Theresa May is going to make a statement at 1530 GMT about postponing tomorrow's vote. The government now been using delaying tactics for two and a half years. How much longer can it go on?

R192 As long as the UK is yoked to the disastrous 'winning' vote of the hapless 'will of the people' merchants. You'd think a poor decision could be re-thought but this is being stopped by the elderly nostalgia freaks and assorted other thickos who believe all the nation's ills can be cured by sticking two fingers up to the ' un-elected bureaucrats' of Brussels and their imaginary directives forcing unbent bananas and other right wing fantasies on the public , they just won't give in on their ludicrous dream, which as we can see is a living nightmare . the UK already had sovereignty, its own currency and a deal with the EU that is better than anything the Brexit shitbags ( and that includes the ones shouting from the safety of the sidelines such as Mogg and Johnson ) have been able to cobble together since 2016, to say nothing of the previous 40 years during which time the 'silent majority' never stopped moaning about Europe.

So she did postpone the vote, even though her spokespeople said earlier today that she wouldn't. What actually happens now? Is she just going to keep postponing until we crash out without a deal?

Mays entire strategy has been to drag this out until the voters become sick and tired of the matter and will finally accept "peace at any price". She will give them Brexit with no Brexit within. Just a fig leaf to claim victory.

The British voters got too full of themselves, they forgot they were subjects.

Or, r195, the public mood will turn so ugly that May will think the living hell being meted out on poor old Macron in France, or the (re)nascent fascism in Italy, is a walk in the park. But she brought this on herself when her political narcissism got the upper hand and she, an (albeit reluctant) Remainer, decided to tread where no Leaver was stupid enough to tread. In fact, the Leavers are all currently baiting the basest Brexit extremists in their various constituencies to guarantee their reelection when May is finally forced to fall on her sword.

All of this compounded by the very dangerous game Corbyn’s been playing—pandering to the Remainers without committing himself in any way to remaining, and fomenting the Brexiteers lest “the working class” feels betrayed and goes back to UKIP.

It would be hard to imagine a sorrier state. I bet even ERII (a cryptoremainer?) is wondering how she can move her gazillions offshore.

I think that May has done an honorable job of trying to deliver a workable exit, which does involve compromise. The problem is that it is always easy for backbenchers to sit around and criticize without having to deliver anything better. Yesterday's delay of the Parliamentary vote increases the odds of a no-deal exit, which is really what a lot of them want. It also delays things to where a "people's vote" is no longer a reasonable possibility, if it ever were.

The UK is spending GBP 100m on ferries to ensure supplies can reach Britain after Brexit. It's good they are making contingency plans, but honestly, Parliament should be turned out for managing Brexit so poorly that this kind of thing is necessary.

The meaningful vote will take place tomorrow. Of course, last month, May cancelled the vote at the last minute, so there are no guarantees. She has basically done what I used to do when there was coursework I couldn't be bothered with at university - tell herself, "I'll leave it till after Christmas". And now it's January and she's fucked.

The original vote passed by under 2%. Does it matter that more than that percent has died or come of voting age since the vote?

May should be dumped asap and a new set of terms created and sent to the EU as take it or leave it. Put the onus on them. UK should not agree to EU’s terms. The current agreement is like the Treaty of Versailles and will only cause horror in the future.

On the one hand, it's a win for Russia, but on the other hand, the EU will function better without the UK, at least for a while.

So the Parliamentary vote is tomorrow, and not much has changed. The government's plan has no chance of approval, but it doesn't seem like anyone has any notion of what happens next. This whole thing has been like watching a train wreck in slow-motion.

So, what happens if the deal is rejected tomorrow? Does everybody accept the no-deal scenario then? Or will May have a new vote by the people? Will she resign with new general elections instead? So confusing.

If they opt for a do-over at the ballot box, then I think for it to be democratic, they really should have two ballot measures.

The first question would ask whether there should be a do-over.

And the second question would be the same as whatever they asked back in 2016 that got them into this mess.

The results of the second question would only be counted, if the results of the first were, "Yes."

That said, I totally agree with R191's opinion on "governing by referendum."

And thank gawd you won’t be writing the referendum ballot paper. It’s not a do over. It’s an informed people’s vote on the future of the country. The question won’t be the same as 2016. It will pose realistic outcomes from which the voter will choose including “no deal” and “remain.” It will also provide more than on choice, in the event that a person’s 1st vote is not in the majority, then their 2nd vote will be applied, etc.

Don’t blame remainers for this mess. If Cameron’s government had done any due diligence, they would’ve known the backstop was an insurmountable issue and/or would’ve sought a solution before the referendum to insure that whatever the outcome, the could deliver on the result. Or would’ve avoided the whole bloody thing to begin with.

The referendum wasn’t called because of EU intransigence- it was called because Cameron made it a campaign promise to shore up support in the GE. Pure vanity on his part. The problems in the UK that effect Leavers have little to do with EU membership and EVERYTHING to do with Tory Austerity policies. Leaving the EU would do little to solve those problems - it’s actually making them worse.

So what is the “Plan B” deal that they are expecting May to come back with in three days? It certainly can’t be much different from that which will be voted down today.

When is the vote today?

I want to see that hack May lose big. So desperate for her position that it's embarassing.

Mediocrity May LOST BIG!

She just suffered the biggest loss of a sitting government since the 1920s but the Conservatives have no shame.

Defeated by 230 should be May’s exit.

So so desperate to remain prime minister. So desperate.

The EU already said Britain is out and they won’t accept them back in. It’s a fine deal.

432 rejected her deal, 202 voted in her favour. I knew she would lose, but not by THAT much!

So is she done? Does she resign so they don't actually vote her out?

[quote]Conservatives have no shame.

'Twas ever thus.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

[quote] The EU already said Britain is out and they won’t accept them back in.

Link please.

Looks like there are gonna be 432 deportations tonight x #BrexitVote #Brexit

Sad to confirm Theresa May has been cancelled x #BrexitVote #Brexit

Honestly don't even give a fuck anymore x #BrexitVote

The cancellation may have got one big step closer, thanks to Speaker Bercow's reminder about parliamentary procedure.

Doesn't Bercow's ruling mean that a no deal Brexit is more likely? If one of the EU states vetoes an extension?

No because Parliament wouldn't allow that, what they could do is A) pull article 50 B) side with labour and go for a soft Brexit and pleed with the EU for a long extension C) add a conformation referendum to the deal and again pleed with the EU for a long extension D) use some technical legal parliamentary procedure to keep extending the date till we leave, but again this all relies on the EU permitting an extension.

They're not going to veto an extension as they want to put all the drama on the UK's shoulders.

Also, Bercow's ruling can be avoided by MPs changing the rules or this session of the parliament being ended and a new one started.

The Commons voted against No Deal last Wednesday

[quote]The Commons voted against No Deal last Wednesday

But it's not binding, is it?

Go or stay, I don't give a flying fuck. Just don't try to divide Ireland again.

R223 The Commons can change the rules but if it did so the change would be for the purpose of a third 'meaningful' vote on the Deal. If the govt has a majority for the Deal, then change the rules and vote the Deal through. There is no majority in the Commons for the Deal so they are not going to change the rules. A prorogation would require the Queen's input and she is bound to follow the Prime Minister's recommendation: but what would be the point, if there is no majority for the Deal? If there is a majority, it can change the rules etc.

R225 No, it's not binding.

R226 Ireland is divided into north and south: the will of the people, like it or not.

[quote]but what would be the point, if there is no majority for the Deal?

Bitch, I'm working on it 24/7, get off my back!

I never want to hear 'Will of the people' ever again! This ridiculous vote has been the ruination of life for the past two years. The whole country in turmoil because old farts ( of all ages ) got to vent their anger with no real direction or proper thought to its consequences. To anyone not blinded by jingoism it was obvious it would be the shitshow it is. I't's very cold comfort to say 'I told you so'.

I hope for a loooooonnnngggg extension, European Parliamentary elections leading to a second People's Vote ('will of the people') followed by revocation of the article 50 notice.

I laughed when I saw a comment from a Remainer somewhere responding to the news that the extension could last for nine months - "How about ninety years?"

Also, someone pointed out that the sunken cost fallacy is now coming into play. So much money, time, and tears have been spent on this already, that it seems only natural to plow through to the bitter end, rather than call the whole thing off.

Idiots voted to leave, and their useless PM can't even make it happen.

What an end to the empire!

The Brexit deadline is a mere 11 days away. The Excess is already cheering T May's departure: obviously they don't remember the old line about holding on tight to Nurse for fear of finding someone worse! Poor old Theresa, no one likes her except (I assume) husband Philip. Unfortunately, I know that once she's down and out I will start to feel sorry for her (like I did for the mummy shot to ribbons in a swamp at the end of some old movie I saw as a kid!).

The FT seem to think she's toast: see link.

"If her deal falls, she will have failed utterly, but even if it passes little is resolved. For although Mrs May’s package is often called a deal it is little more than a standstill agreement. She has bought 21 months of armistice in return for an indefinite continuation of the conflict. Little of the UK’s future relationship with the EU is settled. There is no trade deal, no plan for services, no final destination. Mrs May will soon be gone; these battles are still to be fought."

Meanwhile the hideous complexity of this mess is nothing to the swivel eyed Brexiteers still screaming ' Out means OUT!!!!!!!!!' This is the 'will of the people' and they are people you'd be loathe to ask directions of, more the kind you'd cross the road to avoid.

So they're going to blame the Speaker for May not being able to get her rotten deal through. The Speaker was reminding everyone of the procedure. May is going to blame procedure for her failure: what a lame excuse, lol. Procedure!

Brussels to her rescue once again. They really want to see the UK leave already.

[quote]The EU is set to offer Theresa May a helping hand after her plan for a new meaningful vote was derailed, by formally agreeing on a new delayed Brexit date at this week’s summit and keeping it on offer until shortly before midnight on 29 March.

[quote]A change of the UK’s departure date in the draft withdrawal agreement – potentially from 29 March until three months later on 1 July – might convince the Commons Speaker, John Bercow, that the deal before parliament has changed, sources in Brussels suggested.

[quote] Quoting from the guide to parliamentary procedure, Erskine May, Bercow said the question “may not be brought forward again during the same session” and that it was a “strong and longstanding convention” dating back to 1604. It must be “not different in terms of wording, but different in terms of substance”, he said, suggesting there must be a change in what the EU is offering.

R237 It seems the question is still the same: "Do you agree the Deal?"

Brexit and all the chaos will lead to conservative parties all over Europe (including UK) to implement more Austerity Policies. This means they will go hard right, gutting social safety net programs, health and education, pensions, lower wages, etc.

Teresa May is thrilled about it. She is a Tory.

r238 Well, the day of departure would be different. That seems like a substantive change to me.

[quote]Brussels to her rescue once again. They really want to see the UK leave already.

It's probably not so much as that they want them to leave, so much as it is that they want them to stay OR leave already.

The uncertainty around when and how would cause significant economic turmoil in markets and businesses, reduce spending and investment, and put overall downward pressure on economies.

Business abhor uncertainty. Even if the deal is terrible, they can plan better and make decisions. Whereas, not knowing what and when will paralyze decision making.

Congratulations Britian, you are going to crash your economy and in the chaos, the tories will gut your NHS, pensions and other social programs that you love.

I agree with OP:

[quote] The UK Should Just Cancel Brexit

Now !

Everyone in the free world thinks so

I could see the uk turning more to a hard left, more nationalisation, more worker protection and a much harder line on financial services.

They won't.

Still upper lip and all that, ye know.

I don't think it does R240 : the leave date (11 days! scary) is set out in the UK statute and by reference to the EU treaty so changing references to those provisions in the Deal would not substantially change the Deal on offer.

R240 I agree.

Sorry, R241 I agree

Worst prime minister of all time. Utterly useless.

I'd say David Cameron is worse, R249. He's the one who got us into this mess in the first place.

T May finally admits the UK is in crisis.

Something I’ve been wondering about: the UK crashes out of the EU, sans deal; anti-England sentiment increases in Scotland and Northern Ireland. Are successful moves to a NI and Scottish secession from the UK completely out of the question?

r252 Scotland could do it because it decided against independence mainly because it meant it would have to exit the EU. Now they're being dragged out of it against their will, kicking and screaming. The Scots just keep getting fucked over again and again.

There are rumours that Macron will veto the extension. I can't say I would blame him.

I've also heard that Theresa May is going to make yet another speech soon, though I doubt she will say anything of substance.

The speech is coming an hour and a half from now. Will probably resign if she can't get her deal through.

When she started saying that she knew how fed we all are, my heart leapt for a moment. I thought she might revoke Article 50. But no. Yet another pointless speech. Why does she keep pulling this shit? Does it make her feel special?

Also, Corbyn is so fucking useless. He walked out on a meeting because Chuka Umunna was there. He's a gift to the Tories and a traitor to his party.

The poll says 76% percent of people want to cancel Brexit.

Just cancel it and let the people have a voice in a new referendum.

On the latest instalment of the superlative Talking Politics podcast (I want to marry David Runciman!!), Runciman spills some gossip about how vengeful and nasty Theresa May is, and how she screamed and bawled everyone out at the last cabinet meeting, vowing she would have her revenge on the Remainers in her cabinet who pulled out the long knives in last week’s votes. “When this is all over,” she apparently said, they would be toast. It must be bedlam in those closed-door meetings, and I suspect May gives vent to every ounce of bile and venom and hatred she possesses. Oh to be a fly on that wall at those meetings...

r258 That's insane. I heard she lost it recently over the leaks coming from those meetings and read them all the riot act because of it.

The petition to revoke Article 50 is approaching one million signatures. I doubt it's going to change much in practical terms, but it does show that she was talking nonsense last night when she patronisingly told us that we all just want to get on with leaving.

In other news, the government has spent £10k of public money just since last night to advertise May's incendiary speech on Facebook. Are you outraged yet?

The UK should just crash out of Brexit. No deal with those scum sucking vultures in Brussels.

Honor the vote already taken.

Like May is honoring those two votes already taken on her deal?

Why do I think R262 has never been to Europe.

[quote]she was talking nonsense last night when she patronisingly told us that we all just want to get on with leaving

Indeed, it just sounded as though she was desperate to do right by 'the will of the people', the foaming Leave press, and History, by being seen to side with that slender original Leave 'victory.' What a good girl am I, I've done my level best etcetera.

Very obviously though we don't all just want to get on with leaving. As a second referendum will show.

Earlier I saw an advert on the side of a bus for Dumbo, released 29 March (Brexit day). There's a joke in there somewhere...

huge anti-Brexit rally today.

Petition for revoking Article 50 and remaining in the EU now at 4.2 million.

Meanwhile, in dismally unsurprising news, the 77 year-old woman who proposed the petition - the most successful ever - has received three death threats.

Brexit intelligence at work, as ever so persuasive. Because killing an old lady would really make us four million plus petitioners re-consider our opinions.

It's all gone very quiet on the Brexit commentary here? Are Brexiteers not frothing at the thought of the 'will of the people' being thwarted? Embarrassed at how pitifully it has turned out ( big surprise !) ? What an immense shitshow , thanks pensioners, football hooligans and others prone to a narrow mind.

[quote]The government has bought a $15.9m (£12m) seven bedroom luxury New York apartment for a senior British civil servant charged with signing fresh trade deals in a post-Brexit world, the Guardian can reveal.

[quote]The foreign secretary Jeremy Hunt oversaw the purchase of a 5,893 sq ft (574 sq metre) apartment as the official residence for Antony Phillipson, the UK trade commissioner for North America and consul general in New York. The apartment occupies the whole of the 38th floor of 50 United Nations Plaza, a 42-storey luxury tower near the UN headquarters in Manhattan.

Shameless.

Indicative votes tomorrow. Here's a nice article explaining the process.

Theresa May now says she'll quit if her Brexit deal goes through. Of course, God only knows if she actually means it. Kind of sad that her own resignation is the last thing she has with which to bribe MPs.

r272 I think that just might be what does the trick on Friday when they vote on the deal for the third time.

Indicative vote on the eight options coming soon.

Imagine the humiliation of having to say, "I know you hate my deal, but I know you hate ME even more..."

Keep in mind that those in her party who are now saying they are going to support her deal only because she announced she would step down should it pass, were previously complaining how her deal amounts to treason and is a betrayal of the British people. So much for that line...

This tweet by @patrickwintour nails it:

[quote]A consequence of May's likely resignation is that the unresolved question of Britain's future relations with Europe, to be negotiated in phase 2 of talks, will largely be decided on hustings in a Tory Party leadership contest. Fewer than 120,000 deciding on behalf of 46m.

Will of the people, indeed.

Chuka Umunna is hot.

Corbyn has really driven home the importance of an effective opposition. I don't think the Tories would have allowed things to get so far out of control if they'd been afraid of being voted out of power.

Johnson as shameless as ever.

[quote]Boris Johnson backs May's Brexit deal despite once calling it a suicide vest

Indicative voting has now commenced and will take half an hour.

They're going to boot the UK out of the EU by a margin of two votes on Friday, aren't they? What a nightmare scenario.

Results of indicative votes.

[quote]Brexit: all eight indicative vote options defeated by MPs - live news

From the Guardian LIVE feed on Brexit.

What happens now?

So they rejected every possible deal, rejected leaving without a deal, and rejected remaining.

I mean, it's not so much that all of them got defeated, but that none of them got the majority of votes. And two of the options (customs union and second referendum) got more votes than May's deal. Today was all about getting the feel for the general atmosphere, anyway, so I don't understand the freakout from the right. Hardly anyone expected for any of the options to get an outright majority.

There will be another debate and possibly another vote on Monday, with fewer options. Meanwhile, May might press for another vote on Friday.

I think they should use a single transferable vote on Monday. Write 1 under your most preferred option, and 2 under your second-most preferred option.

If nothing else, Norway and Iceland can unclench for good now. Because only 65 MPs voted for that option.

Labour MPs in trouble...

[quote]💥 We can expect an almighty row within Labour over second referendum. 27 Labour MPs voted against the option. How much was it defeated by? Erm.... 27.

Damn, the customs union option was so close.

I guess they're all just waiting for King Arthur to return from Avalon and rescue them.

This has gotten so messy, I don't think even a general election can help at this point. And frankly, I think May's deal might squeak by just because the MPs are so tired of it all.

A 3 way referendum with may's deal, a customs union and remain please and thankyou.

r289 That sounds ideal in theory but a three-way referendum would never get through the House because you'd just splurge a lot of money and possibly not get a clear majority for any of the options in the end. That would actually be a nightmare scenario because there's no way forward from that.

Also, that would piss off the hard Brexiters in the electorate who would sit out the referendum and so diminish the legitimacy of the result.

LOL! @ r282

I know everything is in chaos at the moment, but it's still funny.

This is the day we were originally meant to leave the EU... and MPs have just rejected May's proposed withdrawal agreement. The SNP's Ian Blackford is saying we should seriously consider revoking Article 50.

There will be an epic showdown on Monday, with indicative votes on fewer options + May's deal yet again facing off against the winner of those votes. That's the current plan, at least.

It's going to be amazing to watch.

R293, they're actually going to vote on May's deal AGAIN on Monday?

r294 Yup, May hopes her deal being pitted against a softer Brexit (e.g. a customs union) will sober up the remaining rebels.

She has done a complete disservice for the women of the uk because it will be decades until the uk will trust another woman in power again.

R296, it won’t, however, stop them from becoming prime minister thanks to having a parliamentary system.

It's Cameron who has fucked this up in the first place, so following that logic, the British public should be distrustful of men as well.

UK, if you’re listening...I’m waiting for you with a beautiful Bleached chicken-in-a-can Deal! No EU standards! Tremendous!!

R297 Do you think any party members would vote for a woman love.

Did they cancel it yet?

What’s taking so long?

On youtube, Scotland is having a big campain, every video I watch (from France) start with an ad for "Scotland is open". They clearly have no intention to cut their links with Europeans.

Can someone give me a quick summary of whats going on, or point me to a post or website that explains it? I have not kept up with anything regarding Brexit.

This sums up what Brexit is doing for Britain R303

r303 Honestly, it's so convoluted at this point but I'll try...

May's deal got defeated for the third time on Friday. Tomorrow is the second round of indicative voting in the House of Commons, where they'll try to find the majority for one of the options that got the most support in the first round this past Wednesday. May will then try to pit the option that gets the most votes against her deal.

All the while, the new deadline set by the EU is approaching, the Conservatives are looking for a new leader, and there's talk of having and blocking a general election. It's a mess but tomorrow should bring a little more clarity on what the MPs actually want from Brexit.

Oh, an here's a nice article with five likely scenarios going forward, published by The Guardian today.