So are more men becoming bisexual?

So I don’t know

FF

I believe no one is becoming bisexual, it's just that the society is getting less black and white about sexuality so people discover and admit it more. Still very few out bi men, because the society is more accepting towards this in women.

Bump

In behavior yes, in identity no.

If you made your headline "Hillary Clinton Says More Millennial Men Becoming Bisexual" you could have killed three birds with one stone OP

Straight men have no sexual interest in other men NO MATTER WHAT YOU WANT TO BELIEVE.

Non straight men are either bi or gay. And if they are bi then they prefer sex with men.

R7 Did you mean "if they are gay they prefer sex with men"? Isn't the whole point of bisexuality, you know, being bi-sexual?

If they are bi then they probably have more sexual encounters with men rather than women is what I meant. But still enjoy sex with a woman every now and then.

R2 Straight is a social construct.

R6, good, but not quite as good as that immortal late-70s supermarket tabloid headline: "Psychic Reveals Elvis Died from Jackie O's Secret UFO Diet."

Saying you are bi puts guys on the road to babyhood. It is more fashionable to claim that one is bi.

R10: No, "straight" is not a social construct.

There is also a percentage of people who are interested in sexual activity with same gender individuals. That's not a social construct, either.

R14 It's a social construct because given the right circumstances men will fuck anything. What holds them back is social norms/mores. Ergo, social construct.

Interestingly, gay is not a social construct. Many gays cannot get it up for a woman.

R14, given the right circumstances, women will fuck anything. The idea of eating pussy is abhorrent to me, but I’d do it for a million dollars.

And there are plenty of men who, if no one was looking or judging, would choose a woman over a man, to fuck.

Yah, they say they're bi. But let's so how many men they'll actually date or have sex with. My guess is zero.

I'm really fed up with sex tourists. I feel like the LGBT acronym is one of those trains in India that has thousands of people hanging on the side of it. Everybody wants to join. Even if they're not qualified.

Well R14, you're wrong on that score as well. Just because men will "fuck" anything does not make heterosexuality a social construct.

R14. You are a dumbass. Do you know any actual straight male because it seems like you dont.

I have noticed more men blurring the line between masculinity and femininity. It seems like a lot of younger guys and some men over the ages of 30 act and dress less like the stereotypical straight male. I live in NYC and you see guys in bizzare colored outfits looking like clowns. Some of them are too touchy feely with their "male friends" . I kind of miss the straight bro look of the nineties and early 2000. As an older millennia i find none of those men appealing, too femmy looking. I saw a guy in the train yesterday dressed like a gay prostitute in short shorts and a sweater tank long sleeve. Maybe I am getting old but it is just not sexy with some wearing women jeans and boots.

[quote] [R14], given the right circumstances, women will fuck anything.

I don't think you're a woman.

[quote] The idea of eating pussy is abhorrent to me, but I’d do it for a million dollars.

Okaaaay. But can you get it up?

[quote] And there are plenty of men who, if no one was looking or judging, would choose a woman over a man, to fuck.

I'll leave that there for others, hopefully bottoms, to weigh in on.

People are more exposed than ever before and it is not as big thing as it was. Porn is much more open now with groups and threesomes and such and sooo available because of the internet. It's like Whatever Dude. It is so much more acceptable to be gay or bi and not live the lie. How many closeted guys got married and had kids to hide. I think the guys that are lying and parading around are viewed as ridiculous. Living on the River of Denial.

welp, didn't know sexuality was a trend :/

I'm scared that kids from the future will identify as non-binary genderfluid pansexuals with chance of trans-asexuality. And then moan about labels three times a week.

Future? That's happening now, R22.

R16 Bisexuality has nothing to do with having sex or dating. If you find both genders sexually appealing... you’re bi? Is a gay person not fully gay until he fucks or dates other men?

And there are a growing number of mostly straight dudes who acknowledge infrequent or occasion attraction to very goodlooking or fit males, but rarely if never will get with a guy. They acknowledge attraction but won’t do anything with a guy

I hear straight-identified guys admiring ultrafit male physiques like never before. For instance, I’ve heard guys say Michael B Jordan has a hot body or physique. Men’s physique have become sexuelized and exalted in the same way women’s have.

[quote] Men’s physique have become sexuelized and exalted in the same way women’s have.

Huh??

Brosexuals are essentially “mostly straight” or bisexuals that prize their identity as mainstream, regular bros who do not have any interest in gay identity or culture

R17 Well there is a theory that sexuality is partially a social construct. I.e. if we had a free world where you could have sex with any gender or sex equally, with no pressure or stigma or problems. Where the choice would be as casual as vanilla vs chocolate vs strawberry ice cream. No one would give you crap over it, or judge you for it. You like whoever you like. Then according to it a lot of people would find themselves somewhere in the middle, not quite straight, not quite gay. Essentially the theory says the society suppresses bisexuality, and only those whose same-sex attraction is super intense (gays) manage to break out of the norm.

Thus with the loosening of pressure more and more people realize they aren’t quite straight.

R25 Well that's an old story, a huge amount of straight leaning bisexuals have internally shut off their bisexuality. And since they are straight leaning, they can have a satisfying sex/love life, unless they happen to fall really hard for someone of the same sex.

Sex is an activity, not an identity. The younger people understand this.

R28 But why a bisexual person would be expected to be interested in a gay identity when this identity is as limiting for their sexuality as a straight one?

Mostly straight is just label bullshit. Not their fault though. The society still doesn't know what to do with bisexuality.

This Vice article is making me mad though. For how long are we going to perpetuate the stereotype of a bisexual person being somehow "unable to give up one of the sexes"? This is such bullshit. That's what a closet case does.

Maybe in the future my wife and I will invite guy into our bed? I'd drop you like a hot potato if you ever thought our long term relationship could be anything but monogamous, ty.

I think a lot of men have had a mild curiosity about having sex with another man, but the stigma against it was greater than their desire to ty it. I have a friend who is about 50, who admitted that the was curious, but just couldn't bring himself to do it. I have no reason to believe that he has ever done anything with a guy; he's honest and we're open with each other. Is he bi? I don't know. He's married with four kids, and I doubt he has thought about having sex with men in while. If he were, say, 20, he would have grown up in an environment where it isn't stigmatized quite so much, and he probably would have tried it a few times, and then moved on. Would he be considered bi then? Labels don't always work. Some people are just curious about trying something, but it doesn't mean that they are attracted to it.

R34 But you never know, maybe if he grew up in a free-minded environment, he'd feel like it's possible for him to be attracted equally to both. Or he simply wouldn't care, just accept his attractions, the famous "I like whoever I like" position.

I mean, here's my experience: I realized I was attracted to both genders in my early teens. I was very careful about the social part of it, mainly because I was ambitious and planned to attend an excellent university and to have a career in financing, but inside I never doubted myself or tried to suppress my fantasies and attractions. It was completely natural to me, I thought others were wrong to condemn it, and I was right to feel it.

And yes I spent some time in the closet. I told myself, if I ever really fell in love with someone of the same sex, if I ever really wanted to make them my long term partner, then I'd come out. But since all I wanted was having friends with benefits (with both sexes, it was no different for the opposite sex), there was little reason to endanger my career.

It was all quite some time ago, I changed my life completely since then because I became an artist and I'm enjoying a much more open lifestyle. But my point is, if I never allowed myself to feel the way I felt, I could have grown up with my same-sex attraction delegated to a mere curiosity, locked up in the basement, barely ever allowed to appear in my thoughts.

R15 to r18 I hope your reading from r29 on down.

R35, I'm R34. I also had a corporate job, and have an Ivy MBA, and left the corporate world to be an artist. I wonder how many of us there are. I worked at an ad agency out of college, and, although I was out in my private life, I was not out at work. There was definitely a stigma against it, which surprised me; I would have thought ad agencies were more open. I sensed that many of my co workers were gay or at least bi, but it was never discussed. We were all too ambitious, and we didn't want our sexuality to interfere with our career. There is much less of a stigma now, no question, and a lot of guys who are working where I once worked are probably more willing to sleep with men. In all, I don't think more men are becoming bisexual, I just think more are willing to do try somethign they are curious about.

Bump

The access to all these choices are so prevalent as never before, one can act on on impulse, literally in seconds, whereas before , the journey wore out the desire.

Male bisexuality is still RIDICULOUSLY taboo in our society

Women HATE it for one

And let's talk about the elephant in the room: AIDS

Not that long ago, you could die from having gay sex. Much of AIDS education in the 80s and early 90s was about the risk of that single encounter (remember Ali Gertz, the department store heiress who supposedly had a one-time fling with a bisexual guy.)

And so lots of guys who might have experimented did not and women were freaked out completely by the notion that a guy might be bi, because it meant he could kill them by passing on HIV.

On the flip side, many of us had experiences with friends in our late teens and early 20s that sound a lot like the "mostly straight" guys--a close friendship turns sexual, usually after a night of drinking. (Think "Y Tu Mama, Tambien") And like that movie, sometimes that ended the friendship because the "mostly straight" guy was so freaked out about what happened or because the emotional bond you had was such that you were either going to become boyfriends or you would split apart. And in truth, most of those "mostly straight" guys were mostly straight, went on to get married and have children and you were probably their only same sex experience.

Those two competing forces got us to where we are today.

Yes, it’s logical for women to avoid riskier sex partners. Statistically men who have sex with men have a much higher rate of HIV infection than any other group, many times higher than heterosexual men. It’s makes sense women wouldn’t want a partner at high risk of HIV.

It's about being trendy and bisexuality is now more socially acceptable than being gay.

I think a lot of people are still closeted, and I cannot fathom why. I know a couple that claims to be straight, but in order to conceive she could only give him a handjob and “jump on at the last minute” - they can’t even have proper sex (it also should be noted, he pings to high heaven).

Regarding bisexuality, I know it’s a controversial topic, but I don’t believe in bi at all. Every person I’ve met that identifies that way pings hard in one direction (gay).

Usually bi people if they’re being honest to themselves have a preference, either men or women. They’re not robots so 50/50 is excluded.

I believe that there is lot of bi men who identifies as straight (and why wouldn't they?), but that most of the young people who identify as bi or queer are actually straight and annoying.

“Gay” still has an intense, crippling stigma attached to it that the overwhelming majority of men are repelled by. The stigma today is largely Around the perception that gay identity undermines masculinity and manliness, which sends most men running in the other direction. Bi and fluid identities also carries stigma about compromised masculinity, but not nearly to the degree and ridicule of gay identity.

[quote] Women HATE it for one

With gay liberation, and then gay marriage, the chances of a gay liaison by a bi partner threatening a straight relationship have increased.

In days gone by, at least in the west, the option of marriage, kids, and a bf on the side was an option, and a pretty prevalent one, if not the dominant.

[quote]given the right circumstances men will fuck anything

I disagree; there are plenty of men who will not have sex with a man, matter how horny they are. They will find a woman, even if less desirable or undesirable, or else just Jack off.

Yep, people who say men will bang anything are projecting their sex addictions or nymphomania on other men. I personally know many a man with very low to conservative sex drives, in addition to very strong level of self-control and abstinence. This is the type of crazy mindset that gets a certain type of gay man who doesn’t respect boundaries in trouble, sometimes physical trouble

R49 Because social constraints.

OP- no is the answer to your question.

I do not understand why people still refuse to believe bisexuality exists. Despite being 100% gay, I think bisexuality is probably the most natural and common orientation. I think most people are curious or attracted to both sexes, but society constraints conspire to have everyone focus on the more appropriate and socially acceptable opposite sex . What is the percentage of adolescents who fool around with a friend? Maybe 75? If there was not some curiosity about same sex -- and the willingness to tryout before society tells them not to - that number would be more like 10%.

I've had a married fuck bud for the last 15 years. He is not terribly active with men, but I know he also cheats on his wife with other women. He is ridiculously handsome and successful, and women hit on him all the time, and he does take advantage of that. So how can anyone tell me that he is not bi, and that bisexuality doesn't exist. He is definitely more attracted to women, but he still enjoys what he can do with men. The more people say that bisexuality doesn't exist, the longer it will take for it to be accepted,becuase you're putting up a wall that a lot of latent bi men don't want to jump.

R49 true just like men who claim to be 100% gay would NEVER touch a vagina. So most men WOULDN'T fuck anything

R53 goid points but women don't really blatantly hit in men if their interested, they drop clues however

The perfect irony is gay men not accepting bisexuality.

[quote] I do not understand why people still refuse to believe bisexuality exists.

One word. Closet cases.

I doubt there's more people having sex with both men and women now. It's just that more men are declaring it rather than keeping it secret, and of course the internet and social media provides a ton more exposure to it - 24/7 info makes it seem like any number of things are happening more, but that's often not the case.

R57 Oh I'm sure more are as gays and our lifestyle become more mainstream and less scary.

[quote]I believe no one is becoming bisexual, it's just that the society is getting less black and white about sexuality so people discover and admit it more.

Totally agree r3. This has been my experience. I used to identify as 100% gay but now I can see I'm actually a mix. Not something I think about a lot but it's there ... I still identify as gay .. no reason to alarm my friends ...

[quote]In behavior yes, in identity no.

Totally agree r5

[quote]Well there is a theory that sexuality is partially a social construct. I.e. if we had a free world where you could have sex with any gender or sex equally, with no pressure or stigma or problems. Where the choice would be as casual as vanilla vs chocolate vs strawberry ice cream. No one would give you crap over it, or judge you for it. You like whoever you like. Then according to it a lot of people would find themselves somewhere in the middle, not quite straight, not quite gay. Essentially the theory says the society suppresses bisexuality, and only those whose same-sex attraction is super intense (gays) manage to break out of the norm. Thus with the loosening of pressure more and more people realize they aren’t quite straight. r29

Or quite as gay ...

R54. I know women don't usually hit on men, but I have been with him in public spaces, and have seen it first-hand. Although they don't come out and say "let's fuck," their intentions could not be more obvious. He is outrageously handsome, but not in a pretty boy model way; he's mid 40's, blue eyes , tall, great body, very masculine corporate looking guy. Not all women are as subtle as you'd think.

R62 I get doubles takes from woman all the time, other men not so much.

[quote]Totally agree [R3]. This has been my experience. I used to identify as 100% gay but now I can see I'm actually a mix. Not something I think about a lot but it's there ... I still identify as gay .. no reason to alarm my friends ...

r59, your friends would be 'alarmed' if you came out as bisexual?

r64 .. no my friends wouldn't be alarmed - just a small attempt at levity. I have lovely friends

More visibility of gays and the fluid take by young people make acting in your bi impulses easier.

[quote]Well that's an old story, a huge amount of straight leaning bisexuals have internally shut off their bisexuality. And since they are straight leaning, they can have a satisfying sex/love life, unless they happen to fall really hard for someone of the same sex.

And maybe gay-leaning bisexuals internally shut off THEIR bisexuality because it seems to engender negativity by both gays and women. Called "self loathing" and delusional by the gays - seems to make a lot of gay men defensive. And not getting much welcome or encouragement by straight women. What's the point of pursuing if living as a gay person is working out?

We should be more welcoming and accepting of bis. All the more cock for us! I never judge the ones I meet, even, no especially, the married ones.

[quote]More visibility of gays and the fluid take by young people make acting in your bi impulses easier.

r66 - totally agree with you. Just another step in acceptance of gays and people of the spectrum ...

All the men I had relationships (three) with in college in Bellingham WA. in 1980 are now married to women.

R70 There's a probability they'll have gay hookups or affairs on the side sooner or later.

r70 - that is indeed a stereotype

Sorry r70 - I was referring to r71

Probability dear, probability. There's also a reason why stereotypes exist.

Well stereotyping people often doesn't give an honest observation - just a convenient one. I personally don't think that bi guys full around anymore than straight guys or gay guys. Anyway It's not what I've observed.

But thanks r74

Guys also don't declare themselves to be bi because it scares away a good majority of women.

Yes, there are women who don't mind, but even with 20somethings, most straight women don't want a bi boyfriend.

Especially when their gay friends are hissing in their ears saying "he just says he's bi. But he's really a big ole queen just like me!"

Mine is as much as observation as yours. Thanks for your input.

[quote][R64] .. no my friends wouldn't be alarmed - just a small attempt at levity. I have lovely friends

r65, ok, fair enough. So why do you lie to them and say you are gay when you are actually bisexual?

r78 why are you insistent in attaching a negative spin on my posts?

[quote]All the men I had relationships (three) with in college in Bellingham WA. in 1980 are now married to women.

r70, studies show that close to 90% of bisexuals end up in opposite sex relationships. This is the norm.

Probably true, for such is the social pressure. But the norm changes over time.

[quote]This is the norm.

I got yelled at by another DL poster in another thread for pointing that out, R80.

r82 - Yeah, there is a lot of yelling on DL .. but this has been a very interesting thread !!!

Remember the Kinsey scale?

Lots of guys who are otherwise hetero have some sort of same sex relationship when they are in their teens or early 20s. They're horny and more open to experimentation.

Most of them then settle down with a woman.

They're less likely to repeat that experimentation when they are older (even if they are single due to death or divorce) because they understand the ramifications.

[quote]The access to all these choices are so prevalent as never before, one can act on on impulse, literally in seconds, whereas before , the journey wore out the desire.

This is really well said r39 !!

In ancient rome there was no such thing as homosexuality or heterosexuality even. We may eventually return to those times.

There is no doubt increased tolerance is increasing the number of bisexual men, particularly masculine guys who would otherwise blend in as mainstream men and mostly straight guys who otherwise would never tell a soul they are attracted to males.

Yeah, young men are more comfortable to admit that there are moments where they are sexually attracted to guys. Older generations had to overcompensate and come up with stupid hazing rituals or join some guy on guy contact sport. And then share their disgust about gays destroying the great and holy bond between manly men.

But more than that R87, I think it's the notion that a single gay encounter is not going to end up with them dying a slow painful death from AIDS.

Do not underestimate the affect that had on many men who came of age in the 80s, 90s and even 00s

I just think that there's a lot less stigma than there used to be about having sex with whoever takes your fancy.

I grew up in the UK in the 80's (straight F) and I was always amazed by how judgy people were about who slept with who, especially given we were supposed to be post so called sexual revolution.

Thankfully I didnt have friends who didn't GAF who did who, and I'm so happy to see my kids and their friends feeling the same way.

I don't think there are more bisexuals, I just think that people feel freer to find happiness, (or a penis;) fulfillment, or just a bloody good orgasm wherever they can find it.

OP is a complete troll. Thankfully I have him blocked but the shit he's come up with before is just mental.

I read an interesting book which, I think, was called something like Gay History in NY. The book claims that more "straight" men had sex with other men in the earlier part of the 20th Century than the did when the book was published, maybe 20 years ago. The author theorizes that men stopped sleeping with other men when we started to create words to describe the behavior. They might have existed, but words like fag or gay or homo did not exist, so they were not stigmatized. Once the words started to become commonly used, the straight men stopped having sex with other men, because they did not view themselves as fitting into that category, and did not want that label applied to them. The power of the word shut down their sexual curiosity. I believe that is true. If there were no stigma associated with sleeping with another man, many more men would do it.

The fear of HIV is a factor, but the idea they will be labeled “gay” or the f-Word for having a same-sex experience is the biggest inhibitor of all.

Good post r92

The enduring stigma around the word “gay” is mainifested in all the times guys today still ask I’m worry “is it gay if I...” or say, “I’m not gay, but so-and-so is hot/goodlooking.” Or just notice how so many guys caught admiring guys defend themselves by asserting how manly or masculine they are. There is still a strong association of gay identity with being unmanly, and it greatly inhibits men from publicly seeking same-sex experiences.

R40 Yes, completely unfair. Only sometimes a woman admitting to bisexuality would scare away a boyfriend (mostly if he’s very conservation), but even a bisexual woman can run away once she finds out you are bisexual.

R45 I agree, being one. Usually there is a sexual preference towards one sex, you won’t turn down the other one, but it’s kind of there anyway. However, it is possible to fall in love with someone who isn’t your usual preference, and I mean erotic love, highly sexual. It’s not something that happens often, though.

R48 It’s not that, it’s internalized mysogyny. In the old days, a woman probably hated the idea of a boyfriend on the side, she just had fewer options to say “fuck you” to her cheating husband and leave.

But why mysogyny? The society is teaching us that everyone wants cock at the end. Cock is the cream of the cream, the top of all things. That’s why lesbians are double insecure that their bi partner will want not only a convenient relationship but also cock. A woman has the advantage of hetero privilege but she still thinks deep inside that her partner will choose cock when choosing between cock and cunt. Because our whole gender idea is that cock is better than cunt at everything. So why choose cunt when you can have cock? This is also precisely the reason why the bisexual women are more accepted. They are seen as playing away while waiting to settle down with cock. A bisexual man is either really gay (remember, everyone wants cock), or really weird (he isn’t straight, yet he doesn’t want cock above all?)

R54 Have you ever encounter female fans of a celebrity? They are like OH YES PLEASE FUCK ME RIGHT HERE SO THAT EVERYONE CAN SEE

Women do that, if a man has a very high status in their eyes. Like, he's top prize. She'll pounce on him like a lioness on her prey.

R59 You aren't alone, just so you know. There is this recent phenomenon of a "second coming out" where homosexual men and women who came out early as gay/lesbian realize later in life that they are actually attracted to both.

It's not widely talked about because I think we can all see how it can push some fanatics towards the conversion ideas again.

R61 Yep, just commented on this above. For some gay men and lesbian women (or would it be right to say, ex-gay and ex-lesbian?) it never goes anywhere because they are so used to another lifestyle, you know, and it can feel intimidating.

I knew this guy who was as queen-like as one gets, a small-time actor, he once got into a high budget movie and met this famous actress who I maybe shouldn’t name? she has lesbian rumors attached and she is gorgeous despite not being in her 20s anymore, anyway she was into him, he was flattered (he’s atttractive but she’s hot too, and also rich and famous so you imagine how much of a choice she has) and suddenly aroused. He said he probably wouldn’t act on it because too nervous and zero experience, but she practically dragged him into bed, and he loved it to bits. Used to be a gold star gay, heh. It ended up being just a fling while the filming went on for a couple months, but he remembers her fondly and says the sex was among the best experiences in his life. She was the one who ended it. He did in no way "become straight", but he's definitely not considering himself 100% gay anymore.

Thanks r99 - this is great validation !

Remember too R100 et al, that the notion of people being either 100% gay or 100% straight is a fairly recent convention

It's a myth perpetuated by both sides too-- how many times have you read on DL that someone isn't really gay unless they're into musicals and fashion or that gay men who don't mince and lisp are just putting on an act? Or the eldergays who refer to other gay men as "Miss" and "she" and "sweetie"

Internalized homophobia, of course, but still reinforces the notion that sexuality is black and white, an either/one proposition.

R67 I think that happens sometimes too. Like I said on another thread, there is also the idea of the traditional family not being appealing to quite a lot of men these days, and it seems most women still want it, especially those in their 30s, so a long term relationship with a woman often carries all those conditions with it. Add to this a sort of a confrontational attitude from your gay friends every time you date a woman, and you might think, fuck it, I'll stick to guys exclusively unless some kind of epic love thing happens.

R68 I'm bi myself and I judge the married ones.

R101 Same goes for gender stereotypes. I'm full of stories tonight but there was this guy who claimed he was bisexual but heteroromantic. Turned out he just liked the qualities stereotypically attributed to women, and he was too hang up on gender roles to consider a man who was like this too. The kicker came when he broke up with his recent girlfriend saying she was "too unfeminine" and then promptly hooked up with the femme-est guy who ever femmed. At least he managed to break through his stereotypes a bit. Not enough to admit them but to act towards his desires.

R98

I think some older guys subscribe to the one drop rule, where if they had sexual attraction towards other guys at all, to any extent, that meant they were gay. Later in life, the sublimated or pushed aside by sexual attraction is finally accepted.

I'd also submit that younger guys (under 25) are much more open to same sex experiences because they are in a semi-permanent state of arousal and because they aren't thinking too much about the consequences of their actions.

R102, the kind of guys that are bi and fluid that I know often DONT have many close gay male friends, so idea that disapproval from openly gay men is a factor for bi or fluid guys is greatly overestimated for them. they often have limited to no real experience with males, and to the extent they do, they strongly prefer other bi or straightish dudes like themselves.

R105 I agree. It also happens the other way around, like a young guy with a traditional background, perhaps puritanical in bed, marries early, and his wife isn't into sex all that much... all this time he's obsessed with liberating sexual fantasies about men. He decided he's gay. But he's not, it's a combination of not being close and personal with his sexuality and the attraction of the forbidden fruit. If he chooses to explore instead of suppressing, he might realize his bisexual nature eventually, together with the fact he chose a wrong woman before. But also it's likely he'll spend many years being a typical self-hating closet case. Or/and cheating with men in a self-ashamed way treating them like dirty secrets.

R107 Ah, they are mostly theorists. I was talking about those bi guys who have quite a lot of experience with men. Many of them roll with the LGBTQ community, often mistaken for gays by outsiders. They have long term relationships with men, or date men openly. Not that they don’t have straight friends, but you know. It would be next to impossible for them to lie to their girlfriend about being straight unless they kept her isolated from their usual crew. This kind of guys.

Oh, okay. I don’t know those type of bi males.

Why does any man in his right mind want to fuck a woman?

POLE --> HOLE --> LOAD --> LEAVE

One other thought: the leap from "I like having sex with other guys" to "I want to fall in love with another guy, go on dates with him and be his boyfriend" is a huge one for many guys and thus creates the scenario that seems to irk so many DLers, where they meet bi guys who only see them as fuck buddies and seek out romantic relationships with women.

For a lot of bi guys, a date with another guy is "I'll come over to your place, we'll fuck and then I'll leave." They see the sex as just sex and don't get that their gay partner might want more.

Just ended a 21-month affair with a pan/bi sexual hustler. In exchange for short-term (monthly allowance) and long-term care (being left my estate), I wanted him to be my lover. That he rejected since he has to fuck a woman every now and then and possibly marry one and have children by her. Yet, our romantic weekend sessions in my apartment were always ultra discreet and furtive: always got freaked out over the doorman asking for his name. Would never go out with me in public. Wanted to buy him an apartment in Queens, but he wanted his "freedom" and not to have it known that he was associating with an older gay man. Snooped on his iphone and found straight dating matches and he informed me that he had been going out on dates but they didn't work out. Wouldn't even consider short-term monogamy with me. AND, friend informed me that he encountered him at the Townhouse, the hustler/piano bar, on East 58th last September. Pan-sexual, indeed!

R112 Oh they get it, they just don't care about the guy enough to risk the social stigma. It's exactly the same for women, where a bi woman is like, what a relationship? lol no, I'm gonna marry a guy and have kids and a white picket fence so thanks no thanks.

Fair enough R114-- "don't think it's a problem" might be more accurate-- I find lots of gay guys on DL who seem genuinely hurt that they can't get their bi fuck buddies to fall in love with them back.

As a straight, older female, I enjoy this thread and never thought a great-looking, kind, gay man would ever hook up with a female. So exciting.

R116 I never got this kind of self-deprecation. Do women think straight men only hook up with them because they don't have a choice of hooking up with other men?

R115 It's only natural to be hurt over being treated like you are second class.

R116 This is an interesting thread because of all the different point of views. I think it's a completely individual thing. People love who they love. People are attracted to whom they're attracted to. Some women might think the way you've described.

Total bottoms are 100% gay. That's the only demographic that is 100% anything.

I was married to a woman for 13 years. Exclusively dated women through high school, college, and grad school.

Now, in my 40s, I'm dating men. Who knew? No idea if I'll settle down with a man or a woman.

Why are total Bottoms more gay than Total Tops? Sounds ignorantly homophobic and bigoted

Bisexuals are just plain confusing. I met a guy who claimed to be "bi" but would not do anything but jerk off or get oral.

R120 - I don't think that's true at all. I'm the guy who has had the married fuck bud for 15 or so years. There is no doubt in my mind that he is bi, and when we fuck, he is ALWAYS the bottom. In fact, he isn't into getting blown (too bad, because he's hung about 9 plus inches!), or much of anything else. He just loves to get fucked . In fact, I would venture to say that most bi men are bottoms, because it is the one thing that they can't get at home.

Women fuck guys with dildos. At home.

So studies are usually concerned with percentages and there is rarely 100% consensus. The fact that your personal experience does or does not confirm the study’s conclusions does not totally confirm or disprove them. It is interesting to see how you fall in the statistics though.

[quote] Why are total Bottoms more gay than Total Tops? Sounds ignorantly homophobic and bigoted

You have a point. Here's what I was getting at: Not more gay, just that total bottoms will never have sex with a woman. Tops can and often have done so.

Hmmm. I bet there are total top bisexual dudes

[quote]In fact, I would venture to say that most bi men are bottoms, because it is the one thing that they can't get at home.

I pointed THAT out one time here, and it didn't go over well. So many people get so pressed over topics surrounding bisexuality. It's funny.

I’m surprised that no one has mentioned anything about the bisexual narcissist. I’ve been involved with one lately. He just doesn’t know that he is a narcissist or that I know that he is. You can call him a closeted hustler who bottoms for me for cash. He looks just like the actor Dylan O’Brien and has the most amazing bubble ass! I think that there are a lot of millennials out there who are opportunistic narcissists and will jump at the chance to have sex for supply.

There are different types of bisexual dudes. Old DL gay guys’ obsession with reducing large complex groups of people into reductionist simplicity is especially ridiculous on this topic.

R122 I think that person's logic is that a total bottom would receive nothing out of sex with women unless she agreed to wear a strap-on all the time. Even if he felt a woman's body were sexually attractive. She doesn't have a cock to suck, either, and total bottoms usually fetishize cock yet never use their own.

Many married bi men have been grateful to get sucked off. Some obsessed by it. They don't get it at home.

Why marry someone who doesn't even want to suck you off, man or woman?

[quote] There are different types of bisexual dudes. Old DL gay guys’ obsession with reducing large complex groups of people into reductionist simplicity is especially ridiculous on this topic.

You're new to chat aren't you?

But seriously. All of language and socialization is the reducing complexities into simple concepts for communication.

[quote] Why marry someone who doesn't even want to suck you off, man or woman?

Marriage is not an oral sex contract. Sex wanes in a marriage. Blah blah. Try it sometime.

My experience is hooking up with guys is all about the hot sex and high five when your done and a woman wants a more joining of the souls intimate relationship.

[quote] He just doesn’t know that he is a narcissist or that I know that he is. You can call him a closeted hustler who bottoms for me for cash.

He's just a whore, darling. Let's not overdo this narcissism thing. I've been seeing a lot of this lately.

R136 Well when getting into a long time relationship people consider things like, will I be bored with them in 5 years or not. Why not consider the same thing sexually? So if your sex is average, don't marry, it won't get better.

[quote] My experience is hooking up with guys is all about the hot sex and high five when your done and a woman wants a more joining of the souls intimate relationship.

Women bear children. I'll stop there. Think on it.

Oy vey r139. What part of "wanes" didn't you understand?

Being a masculine bisexual guy myself, who just got out of a 5 year relationship/engagement with a woman and not really being part of the "gay world", in that I work a typical male job and have predominantly straight guy friends, it's always surprised me (thought it shouldn't at this point) how freely FEMALE bisexuality or even lesbianism is accepted by the priveledged heterosexual elite , the majority, of Our world, while male homosexuality and ESPECIALLY male bisexuality is hated and considered not cool and swept under the rug or used as a joke

Every woman I've ever been with has had issues about my bisexuality and I lost a few girlfriends because I was honest about it, they just don't want to deal with it and MOST women are not turned on by two guys together , and these are women who claim to be liberal and for gay rights, these aren't the bible thumping Christian types

Straight people USE lesbianism to spice up their sex lives and therefore make it less taboo and more mainstream, I think porno dis this to a lot of straights, almost no one cared if a woman proclaims that she's through with men and wants to try women, most women are like "Good for you, I wish I could do it" and MOST guys are like "That's hot", if a masculine alpha guy says rhe SAME EXACT THING about experimenting with men, he's a joke, a scumbag, a closet casr, less masculine, no woman would TOUCH that because he'll be deceased suddenly, he's a weirdo etc

These double standards are never talked about though...

No, it's just a way for millennials to say they are gay without really saying they are gay...it almost seems like we are going backwards now and are being pushed back in the closet with people afraid to admit they are gay.

R143 that's because the gay world is ridiculous and super feminine, no man with any masculinity, wants to be associated with that shit, we just want to fuck dudes and suck some cock on occassion

r143 was talking about actual gay people r144, not about someone like yourself. Of course bisexuals aren't a part of the 'gay world' (as you call it) because, well, they're not gay. The two are conflated for political expediency but there's no real deep seated bond between homosexuals and bisexuals.

R143 Or they aren’t gay? Not everyone is gay or straight. Just because YOU couldn’t get it up for women also doesn’t people can not enjoy both. You better get with the program that there are more bi people than gay people and stop acting like you know peoples sexuality.

R142 Would be weird to be turned up by the idea of your boyfriend with someone else, male or female. I agree with you about the double standards though. I think they are largely sexual. Sex between women is thought of as petting rather than sex, whereas there is this idea that if you try sex with a man, you will never go back to women. Basically it's because a man is able to be both types of partner, penetrating and receiving, whereas a woman can only be one (not counting the devices, pure anatomy). So like they said in some ancient countries, a beautiful man can be both a woman and a man in bed. Thus women are only needed for childbearing. Mind you I'm not saying that's my opinion, just that it is the root of it.

R145 Why do you wish to separate from the bisexuals so much? What about the shared experience? Half of it?

Most of us claim to be so open minded when it comes to sex, but on some level we still suffer from the internal remnants of the "sex is shameful" culture (most of us grew up in) we hold on to (whether we like it or not) where we judge other people based on the sex they have. We can count our blessings if we come to terms with our own sexuality but still struggle to accept other people's sexuality, especially when it deviates from our own (how on earth can they like THAT sexually? YUCK, YUCK, YUCK!).

[quote][R145] Why do you wish to separate from the bisexuals so much? What about the shared experience? Half of it?

r148, I do think it makes sense for LGB to maintain a united front for political purposes. I just don't think there's any kind of real organic kinship between bisexuals and homosexuals other than that political angle. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe other homosexuals feel some sort of innate connection to bisexuals, but I don't, and I don't get that impression from others.

I do.

I agree with you R142

I always thought it had to do with leftover stigma from AIDS, there was a lot of propaganda back in the day about straight women getting infected by bi guys.

Lee Pace's character on Halt and Catch Fire was the only legit bi guy I've seen on TV, where he had relations with both sexes and was portrayed as just hypersexual, not a freak.

R150 I was curious why you didn't. What makes the bisexuals' experience so different? The fact that in a way they are more connected to the mainstream culture?

R152 And yet when Pace came our irl admitting he was essentially bisexual himself (he didn't use the word but he said he dated both sexes which heavily implies), he was dragged for not clarifying, shamed for not presenting more precise information, and finally accused of lying about dating women in order to butter up his female fans. Every biphobic trope one can think of. No wonder his PR gayed it over later, though he never changed his own narrative.

The AIDS stigma is not “leftover.” It’s current, fresh, as one would expect for a deadly STD.

POLE --> HOLE --> LOAD --> LEAVE

Really great thread !!

Bump

Bi men tend to avoid interaction with openly gay men for a host of reasons

Well, it sure is being referenced main stream lately. Have a look at Dennis Quaid's latest Esurance commercial:

r158 are you referring to "closeted" bi men?

.....and Justin Timberlake for "Bai"

R160, yes, the vast majority of bi and “mostly straight” dudes.

There are many men who identify as straight but if horny enough would not object a blow job or anal sex from another guy...they get what they can get. Do people think straight guys turn gay or bi in prison? No,..they are still straight and horny and make due with what is available.

Hey, I like banging a dude's ass as much as I like chili dogging a chick, so I guess that makes me bi.

Dennis Quaid looks hotter than ever

Are the people on here who denounce bisexuality the same ones who lust after straight men? Ah, the irony.

[quote] For a lot of bi guys, a date with another guy is "I'll come over to your place, we'll fuck and then I'll leave." ... The leap from "I like having sex with other guys" to "I want to fall in love with another guy, go on dates with him and be his boyfriend" is a huge one for many bisexual guys r112

And understandably so. It's one thing to have hot homosexual sex - and it's quite another to sign on to taking societies scorn on a daily basis. It's comfortable being in the mainstream. A lot less work and a lot less stress than being a despised minority. Homophobia is alive and well in the USA.

Or, r167, QUITE POSSIBLY, it's not about fear of a relationship or dating a man, but simply not being interested in that.

Yes few people willingly take on an identity that is so overwhelmingly stigmatized and despised

[quote] Yes few people willingly take on an identity that is so overwhelmingly stigmatized and despised ..

Couldn't agree more 169 . And I think a lot of gays are sort of in denial of how much stigma there is in the real world. People that live in the Bay Area can create niches for themselves where they are seldom exposed to the rough edges of homophobia. Students or other young people sometimes look at the world trough starry eyes. Gays that live in "gay ghettos" often have an unrealistic view of the world.

And sometimes these folks get angry and defensive when it's brought to their attention that most of America hates them. The average American hopes his kids are gay and looks down on any homosexuals he has to encounter as neighbors or coworkers. Thankfully there a lots of exceptions - but to travel around the USA as a obvious gay is to encounter a lot deep of hatred from strangers.

^^ hopes his kids "aren't" gay ...

Homosexuals are so embraced in the media. Fawned over in talk shows, loved-up in cooking shows, and every major sitcom has a least one adorable gay person saying funny wise stuff. But this is PC televisionland and things are a lot different outside the television studios. ...

And most real gay men aren’t the flamboyant clowns Hollywood fawns over

r173 ... agreed !!

But the point I was making before I got a little off topic is I think it's understandable why bi guy don't want to ease themselves out of their heterosexual comfort zone to join funny exciting gay life that is often a shit storm. Non-mainstream people (like creative types) are more flexible. And younger people are more flexible but the average Joe really doesn't want to take on all that baggage.

True

But I think the MAIN reason bi guys don't have more romantic relationships with gay guys is because gay gays can't give them kids.

Most men want children. It part of our biological makeup and it's what propagates the species. Straight men want kids and a family - and gay men want kids and a family. But the average gay guy doesn't act on this impulse. To be gay and have kids means jumping through a lot of hoops and is usually a huge financial outlay. Ricky Martin can have the perfect family but it's been unrealistic for me.

So when a bi guy fucks a woman she is not just a fuck but she is also the means to fulfill this biological urge. And if a woman has has a bi's baby it's game over. It's baby diapers and white picket fence.

And I think this is one of the things that gay-guys resent more about bi -guys. Bi's can not only move back and forth in society and live without being spat on ... but they can also have kids. The can dandle the sweet darling on their knees and watch them take their first steps and kiss their little baby bellies with those smacking kisses that parents do.

Per r176 - I think that people being people bi's like to rub this in and act superior. I think bi's often feel they are "better" than gays - and they usually don't explicitly say this, but they show it be action and attitude. I've know bi guys and fucked bi guys and often pick up on the "good enough for sex but not good enough for the real world" attitude. It's annoying.

“Not Gay” is a great book to read about this subject because though I was dismissive at first, it’s eye opening to the fact that there’s a lot of gay sex going on that’s not deemed gay by those that partake. Also, we are judging based on our own ideals, not what others went through. Yes, I was doubtful too until I read it.

My favorite part was when gay liberation appeared after Stonewall, an angry guy retorts, You mean, we have to choose?”

I feel like post-college, male bisexual behavior seems to largely be the domain of lower class “mostly straight” men with poor impulse control - I don’t wish them ill, but I will cop to a certain NOKD prejudice towards them.

r179 - You're a "just not the way's done" kind of guy with good impulse control. I'm sure bi's appreciate your warm wishes !!

The word or label “gay” is like garlic to a vampire for r most men. They will do anything to avoid it.

[quote]I don’t mind bisexuality if the person is open to the world with his relationship when he’s together with a man . But usually its very secretive when they’re with a man . And with a woman everybody has to know it . I‘m looking at actors and models and singers man and female . That's what i think is loathsome in their behavior . They use the safety of their relationships with women so they have all the perks and pleasures of the heterosexual world and none of the negative that out gay man and women must endure in their lives.

R179, it’s the ultra masculinity and testosterone of these “lower class” blue collar men that is so attractive to many gay men. I know of gay men who report mind-blowing sex with mechanics, thugs, and firefighters who have multiple “baby mamas” and side chicks. They seem proud to have gotten real Alpha men whom society views as manly into Bed

[quote]The word or label “gay” is like garlic to a vampire for most men. They will do anything to avoid it.

Agreed 181 - "Gay" has a lot of trashy pervy overtones. "Bisexual" just sounds to much nicer.

Actually the gay stigma here is not mainly sexual, it’s cultural stereotypes about masculinity and gender conformity

I'm always fascinated by stories told by DLers of relationships they have with bi guys who dump them to take up with women or who are married the whole time.

I am aware of guys who have sex with men on the downlow (e.g. a Grindr hookup on a business trip, no real names exchanged) who are in relationships with women.

But I have not met any who have taken those "side fuck" relationships any further, as described by more than a few DLers.

(Though I have entertained the notion that the DLer has created a 'relationship' where none existed, that they've turned 10 minutes of post-sex pillow talk into a 'date' and several of those 'dates' into a relationship)

[quote]Actually the gay stigma here is not mainly sexual r185

When a lot of straights think of gays they they of trashy drag queens with beards

Or sassy, fem gay men who fit in more with women than mainstream males.

r186 - I've been with few bi's over the years and they have just been normal guys - pleasant to be around just like the other people in my life. The sex was sometimes good - sometimes average. No difference.

I never was romantically involved with any although one guy became a nice friend.

[quote]Or sassy, fem gay men

Agreed - lots of sass and hands on hips and flouncing around ..

Or the guys that lurk around adult book stores. These guys are gay ..

Or the guys that hang around public restrooms at freeway reststops .. these guys definitely gay ..

Or when your parked on a dark street and a guy comes over and knocks on the window and says "do you want a date?" This guy is probably gay

For Several months, I worked out with a gorgeous Peruvian that could double for a young Keanu Reeves. He’d follow me like a puppy, people called him “Chino” because he was always smiling- his eyes were always crinkled. Absolutely adorable yet hopelessly straight. he’d treat me just like a girlfriend, clearing my plates and always wanted to hang out, knew I was gay but he never acted sexually on it. In every other way though, he acted like a boyfriend.

I honestly don’t think he knew how to proceed. He’d ask lots of questions, but there was a language barrier, and we parted ways because I kind of knew going further would destroy the friendship yet staying friends wasn’t going to work either. I think some straight guys have a lot of difficulty opening up to other guys they’re attracted to- maybe culture maybe because of upbringing.

I went out with a Peruvian guy for awhile. He was also very sweet in an unspoiled sort of way, He was very proud of his Inca heritage.

I went out with a straightish black thuggish guy who had 11 kids, mostly from different Women. He called my booty “asspussy.”

r196, wow, what a turn off.

For you r197, not for others

I just moved from NYC to Tampa and there are a lot of “Pray the Gay Away” men here. What would happen in liberal NYC has been tamped down by parents early on, sexual impulses redirected, and men settle down and marry w/kids but would EASILY be able to be gay in NYC. I’m from Boston originally so I can understand why they’d be hesitant (you could get beat up when I was growing up in the 80’s) but the misdirection of their sexuality is just sad.

I’m old enough to see the gay peek through these guys so they’re not fooling me, but they’re older and don’t have the fluidity millennials have with sexuality.

R170 I agree. The majority of openly bisexual people either happen to have a meaningful relationship with a same-sex partner they are unwilling to hide or they move in the more liberal social circles (like arts in a big city). There is also a group of bisexuals who are “almost gay” meaning they are attracted to women but rarely so their love and sex life is mostly about men.

The rest of bisexual people tend to blend in with the straights avoiding any sort of LGBTQ identity.

R186 Well people who tend to have side fucks or cheat on their partner rarely take them any further even when those side fucks are totally heterosexual. It’s the nature of that connection to be a dirty secret.

R199 But why would a bisexual man want to be gay? That’s the opposite part of the problem. Imagine you decided to live openly as bi, went to a big city, joined the LGBTQ community, dated some men, fucked some men, had a relationship, and now you met a girl you like. But but but you should be gay, your traitor, you trying to become straight now or what? Then the girl finds out your ex is male and she dumps you too.

For a lot of bisexual people, there is sort of a resistance to be open, because they feel if they cross over, they will have to become fully homosexual. That’s why fluidity is useful, it makes people relax.

Bump

[quote]So are more men becoming bisexual?

No, they are just being more honest about their feelings. Only a very small percentage of the male population are straight. Most normal men have sex with other men.

No homo...full bi.

Who are those women that marry bi men. They must be truly desperate to settle for a cock sucker.

Women are more bi than men. I'd love to have a bi woman with no bull shit hang ups as a partner.

R204, women will marry anything in a desperate attempt to not become a spinster.

[quote]Women are more bi than men. I'd love to have a bi woman with no bull shit hang ups as a partner.

Most of those women are MUCH more into men...and rarely have anything to do with another woman.

Well, I'm not necessarily even speaking about an active, physical bisexual practicing person. I'd be greatly impressed by anyone willing to acknowledge that same sex attraction exists in most, if not all of us. That's what I'm sayin'

There are no more bi men now than there ever were. Though there may be more men identifying as such publicly, and/or acting upon it privately.

I think about men in the past who chose all-male environments like mining, cowboy, military. If you couldn't live without a vagina then you wouldn't move to the middle of nowhere with a bunch of guys.

R204, why do you assume all Bi men suck penis? Some just like to get serviced

Under 35, yes

I service cocks!

There is no scientific evidence that men can be attracted equally to both sexes. All the recent studies have shown one sex is strongly preferred over the other by “bisexual” men.

Not the ones I know

Bump

I don't like labels.

They always were, it's just become a bit less stigmatized to admit it.

R216 got that from the lesbian talk show on the Golden Girls.

Hopefully

Culture matters

Op, they are not becoming Bisexual. Men are [bold]bisexual[/bold] by nature.

R16 you’re crazy, the sex tourists are awesome. A hot guy is a hot guy. I don’t care if it’s his first or 100th time with a man. I’m just happy for more options.

Prostitution is whack

Cute bi bro

My guess is that guys are getting the same pass as incidental lesbians. Couple of same sex indulgences and then back to the camp. It is a little more fair.

So true. Among the young, urban, and well-educated, men can be “mostly straight,” “fluid,” Pansexual, demisexual, and Bi now without being a pariah or discriminated against. Most importantly, a critical mass of women are willing to date or marry men who are bi or mostly straight. Also, such men are allowed to have a midway identity that is not presumed to be the same as gay.