Theatre Gossip #322: "The Bajour Loon" Edition

Aaaagh, OP. Do we have to be reminded of the loon every time we open the thread? Some things are better left unsaid.

There is no Bajour loon, R1. Unless......

Chita?? Chita, you there?

We need a revival of Beatlemania.

We had one. It was called Rain.

PIPPIN!

So apparently Rudin is now specializing in "witty" sequels to classic plays, like The Doll House and now Titus Andronicus.

Gary sounds like an immediate flop. A sequel to Titus Andronicus? That'll pack 'em in.

Are Nathan Lane and Andrea Martin going to get along?

Doubtful, Vicki. But he has mellowed a bit in recent years.

I think "Gary" might be a hoot--I love the title.

R8 - Nathan and Andrea are thick as thieves and have been very close friends for years now. If he respects your talent, it's smooth sailing. Doubtful there'll be any friction there...

Isn't everybody dead at the end of Titus Andronicus?

Stadlen already had a Tony nomination and numerous credits before Lane had his Equity card, though.

Oh, picky, picky, R11.

Chita does a mean version of "Mean" in "Bajour", but from the recording it sound like Nancy Dussault stole the show. Especially with this:

That Chicago Tribune article on "Tootsie" (linked to in the last thread) was really good and interesting, but I'm confused by this quote: "...at the New 42nd Street Studios, the rehearsal complex in midtown Manhattan that has been hailed so many times in the media as a secret hive of creative activity that it is now in danger of becoming more famous than some of the shows that emerge."

Why is this place a "secret" hive of create activity? And is the writer of the article implying that a show that rehearses at a particular studio has a better chance than a show that rehearses at another one?

r15 No. "Secret" means the shows are a success only in the creatives' minds.

I’ve always thought that song was a bore, r14. Love is a Chance is more entertaining.

Fun fact: Nancy D had to leave Bajour for a few weeks in early 1965,and her temporary replacement was Little Me’s Virginia Martin.

This is great read. Had no idea there was a Lolita musical

Jayne Houdyshell, Ruth Wilson, Elizabeth Marvel, Pedro Pascal, and John Douglas Thompson are joining Glenda Jackson in King Lear. Phillip Glass is doing the score.

As soon as I heard Lili Cooper was cast in the Jessica Lange role in Tootsie I knew they were going in a very different direction. We want to see strong women on stage and Jessica's fluttery, helpless female would be booed off the stage.

Back on the subject of Dorothy are we, r18?

Can you imagine any man even putting on lipstick in order to get closer to Lili Cooper?

Lolita My Love has a pretty good score. Besides "Sur Les Quais," "In the Broken Promise Land of Fifteen" and "Tell Me" are both gorgeous. Then there's "Going Going Gone," which is so catchy that Cy Coleman "borrowed" the melody for "All You Have to Do is Wait" in City of Angels.

[quote]I'm pretty sure that AGYG was not pre-face-work for scary Brent Barrett.

Yeah, it was. He had his first work done just before he turned 50 in 2007. Then he got a "refresher" a couple of years ago.

Is there any point in getting face work done if you're only doing stage work? Nobody can see your face past the fifth row. It's not like you have closeups on stage.

I know we've discussed Aaron Lazar before, but I'm just now watching a dvd of the Beverly Hills Merrily We Roll Along, and he is hot as fuck. And talented! What is the consensus: gay or straight? Damn, he is amazing.

r19 And I'm sure Glenda will thank her director, Steven, when she picks up her next Tony.

I hear often of DL Fave Karen Ziemba's itty bitty titties and that she posed for Playboy. But for the life of me I can't find the photo online. Help.

r26 he's (str8) married with kids. hot talented but not as talented as he thinks he is and can be a pain

r29 If you have details, this is exactly the thread for it. Theatre + Gossip = Theatre Gossip.

Lacking in the acting department, I think, but he'd make a dashing Ben.

[quote]Isn't everybody dead at the end of Titus Andronicus?

Nathan and Andrea play slaves assigned to clean up the bodies. Seriously. There's a third person in the cast who hasn't been announced.

I was wondering why Lazar didn’t make it?

I think broadway hates pretty men.

Aaron Lazar, Aaron Tveit, Cheyenne Jackson, Ramon Karimloo, even DL fave Andy Karl all had/have good looks and yet nary a Tony (or nom in some cases) among them.

Does broadway (even though it’s the gays and the hags who love them that run it) really hate good looking men?

Didn’t Robert Goulet win a Tony?

Yeah, Goulet won a Tony.

Would Steve Kazee, Paulo Szot, and Hugh Jackman count as good looking Tony winners?

What the hell are you talking about, r32?

I adore Taylor Mac's Song Cycle, but hated HIR, so I'm nervous about GARY.

Taylor Mac's preferred pronoun is judy (all lowercase). It’s in all of judy's press releases. Please respect judy's wishes.

Aaron Lazar is the full package (pun intended). He puts Ramin, Aaron Tveit and the others to shame. He’s only been kind and thoughtful anytime I interacted with him. Although I do think R32 is on to something... I’d add Matt Cavenaugh, Jeremy Jordan, Matthew Morrison and some others to the list of super-hot leading men with worthy performances that were snubbed by Tony. Hmm.

I read that Taylor Mac's preferred pronoun is judy, but I thought it was a joke. Please tell me he's not serious. He HAS to be taking the piss out of the non binary movement, non?

Max von Essen's gawgeous!

Tony hates tiny meat though.

That's the first time I've ever heard Jeremy Jordan described as "super-hot."

[quote]I know we've discussed Aaron Lazar before, but I'm just now watching a dvd of the Beverly Hills Merrily We Roll Along, and he is hot as fuck. And talented! What is the consensus: gay or straight? Damn, he is amazing.

I saw that production. Is the DVD a bootleg, or was there an official recording? This was the one with Wayne Brady as Charley-- right?

Reba was still better than all of those interchangeable guys combined.

Going to be seeing Aaron Lazar soon in DEH on tour. He was fantastic in the PBS Light in the Piazza recording.

I saw the A Little Night Music revival three times and was smitten with Aaron Lazar. Last night I attended his concert at Birdland and it showed why he never became major and is touring in Fun Home.

Dull, conceited and a lack of showmanship. He decently sang a bunch of standards but nothing from ALNM. The comic patter was flat. He's not old but his sensual appeal is diminished and his nose is more pronounced. Very disappointing.

He's touring as the father in Fun Home? Seems like an odd fit for him. I saw someone else in the role, but that was almost two years ago so...

R43 --Yes, it is the one with Brady as Charley. I've seen many productions of the show, and that version was, by far, the best I have seen. It had heart. SPOILER ALERT: I thought DL fave's Michael Arden's decision to feature ghosts -- a la the ghosts in Follies -- was a great idea, and it was very touching at the end, when they older trio was looking back at themselves as they were just starting out. I've always loved the show, but this is the first time I was moved by it.

And, yes, it is a bootleg, not an official video. The quality was exceptional.

Aaron Lazar is going to the dad in the touring DEH, R47. I think the previous poster was confused.

He was hot in the NY Philharmonic Company, but his dancing on the Act 2 opener was really awkward.

Fun Home? Maybe r46 meant Dear Evan Hansen.

Thanks, R49 and R50; I'm sure you're right. I'm looking forward to seeing both him and Christianne Noll.

r48 That's quite an innovative approach. You almost think someone should have thought of it by now but somehow everyone missed it. Are the ghosts the older selves, the younger selves, or do they flip at some point in the show? Are there ghosts only for the three main characters, or others as well (e.g., Gussie)?

I saw Aaron Lazar at Telsey's old office a couple years ago. He's a freaking dreamboat.

Matthew Morrison was Tony nominated for Light in the Piazza. Jeremy Jordan was nominated for Newsies.

Yeah, but since they didn't win, Tony's got a bias!

"We want to see strong women onstage"

No, we want to see ALL humankind represented on stage: weak, powerful, co-dependent, submissive, bright, uneducated, sophisticated, simple. Otherwise it's filthy propaganda. Give me the pathetic and all-too-human Lola in COME BACK, LITTLE SHEBA than all the false, forgettable, bicep-flexing "heroines" of contemporary entertainment.

What is this crazy mess

Is she playing the human Miss Piggy?

[quote]Stadlen already had a Tony nomination and numerous credits before Lane had his Equity card, though.

Stadlen was also on "Benson" during its first couple of seasons back in the late '70s/early '80s.

If you want to talk about really bad and unnecessary face work, Davis Gaines owns this thread. Nothing anyone has ever done to their stage face can match the hatchet job that former hottie did to himself.

Yes, Taylor's pronoun is judy. What's it to ya?

There is only one Judy and this young scamp Taylor Mac is presumptuous.

judy is, like Vivian Bond, rather an acquired taste. I’m less fond of a baritone in a dress myself...

Justin Vivian Bond is a joke.

R64, I did kind of love it when Justin Vivian Bond was on Broadway and he would ramble, insert songs not in the program, and generally make the show go into "golden time" to piss off the producers. The stage hands must have loved him.

Stroman to helm new Ahrens/Flaherty musical. Sounds kind of dull. Sounds like a ripoff of Sunday In The Park With George.

[quote]Marie is a new musical based on a famed masterpiece by Edgar Degas and the unknown dancer, Marie, who inspired it. Part fact, part fiction and set in the glamorous and dangerous backstage world of the Paris Opera Ballet, this magnificent new musical follows a young woman caught between the conflicting demands of life and art, and an artist with one last chance for greatness.

Didn’t they do that show in DC under a different title? Little Dancer or something?

Ruth Wilson is listed as playing both Cordelia and the Fool ... if that's correct, it's an interesting if iffy concept ... has any other production done that before?

Geoffrey Reeves from the RSC did that pairing when he directed King Lear at Stanford in the early 80s.

R68 Recent scholarship (I'm no Shakespearean, but know people who are) suggests that the same actor played both Cordelia and the Fool in Shakespeare's time. And the line "And my poor fool is hanged" may refer to Cordelia, not Lear's Fool--"fool" in Renaissance English being a synonym for "my darling" or "my foolish, sweet child." I don't know if it's ever been cast that way professionally, but I'd be surprised if some college production hasn't done that. And since all roles would have been played by men, and the female roles typically by adolescent males, the gender-switching is already there.

Yes, the upcoming “Marie” debuted in DC as “Little Dancer,” to tepid reviews, as I recall.

Interesting - so does the Cordelia/Fool interpretation underline the possibility that the "Fool" is really just in Lear's head?

R72 I think that's exactly what the director intends to portray

Yes, as stated above it had long been believed that The Fool and Cordelia were originally played the same young actor. The 2 characters are never seen in the same scene, which is particularly odd in the first big scene in the play in which Lear divides his kingdom between his three daughters and The Fool is not present at court.

Some productions insert him in there but with no lines. My impression is that most modern productions cast an older man to play The Fool, someone who is more a contemporary to the actor playing The Fool.

R72, no it underlines that there were only a certain number of actors in the company and doubling was necessary. Shakespeare did not write plays to torture 21st century high school students. He wrote plays to make money. The answer to any question regarding the plays will invariably be practical or financial.

Stro, give it up already!

Will Tiler Peck still play Marie (The Little Dancer) or has she aged out of the role by now? And what of Boyd Gaines??

Shakespeare often titled his plays after the monarch in them. Thus Julius Caesar, Cymbeline and Henry IV, even though those characters are not primarily who the play is about.

Why has there never been a truly great play about Shakespeare and his career? Now there is a truly fascinating story surrounded by so many fascinating legends and speculations. So rife for drama!

And I'm not counting Shakespeare in Love.

[quote]Theatre Gossip in the year 1602

Now, that would be a thread.

A play about the original boy actors who created the roles of Juliet, Lady Macbeth, Rosalind, Cleopatra, Desdemona, Titania and Kate would be incredibly fascinating!

R34, James Naughton, definitely.

If you like Shakespeare, check out the British comedy "Upstart Crow".

R78, have you forgotten Marlowe?

[quote]Upstart Crow sucks

Upstart Crow is the funniest show to come along in ages. They're currently broadcasting Season 3 in the UK.

R84, I have a sense of humor. Upstart Crow relies on some really lame setups. It is basically a conventional family sitcom in Elizabethan dress. In fact, one of the lame running jokes is Elizabethans complaining about modern first world problems such as traffic delays. Funny once or twice, not for three seasons.

Who would have created the Nurse role, r80?

Aaron Lazar was shirtless for part of A Little Night Music and it was good. His performance was too.

R52 -- The use of the ghosts was subtle, until the last scene. Previous to that, the ghosts were part of the reprises of "Merrily...", the song that connects all the scenes; you know, the part that goes 1972....1969, etc. In those moments, they would dance or pantomime events that might have transpired during the time in between the scenes. In the very last scene on the rooftop, however, one by one, the ghosts would take over the speaking part of the original actor, while the main actor slowly stepped back, and watched his younger self. It was especially moving because that was the scene when they first meet Mary, and when Charlie meets his future wife. I think we all look back and wonder who were were when we were 20 years old, and that scene captured it beautifully.

R88, isn't that also what was done in the Maria Friedman production? Is it now part of the script?

^^this sounds wonderful. Is there anywhere online to watch a boot?

Thanks, r88.

r89 If you mean the one shown in movie theatres, then no.

Thanks, R52/R91; I saw the one that was screened in theaters and I don't recall "ghosts." I'd like to see the one that used them.

Friedman’s production had the annoying concept of Franklin Shepard Jr. popping up now and again.

R90. It is not online, as far as I know. I have a source for bootlegs.

[quote]I read that Taylor Mac's preferred pronoun is judy, but I thought it was a joke. Please tell me he's not serious.

I had the same reaction. Oddly, the Wikipedia entry for this person notes that "Mac uses 'judy' (lowercase) as judy's gender pronoun" -- and yet, throughout the rest of the entry, the name "Mac" is always used in reference to this person, rather than "her/hers," "him/his," "judy/judy's," or anything else.

I suspect Aaron Lazar looks great in jockstrap.

Not even Aaron Lazar in a jockstrap could get me to see DEH.

[quote] Stroman to helm new Ahrens/Flaherty musical. Sounds kind of dull.

If Stroman offers to direct any musical, run the other way. Flop after flop after flop.

Her claim to fame is THE PRODUCERS. That because a hit because its stars. I saw it again after Nathan Lane had left, and it was a dud.

Why do people keep hiring this horrible director????

Should we bring up Follies now?

Her choreography is more gimmicky than intricate.

Her structure of the "Who Could Ask for Anything More" finale in Crazy for You was pretty genius, with a sense of build and climax and joy that we haven't seen other choreographers of her generation create. She sort of succeeded with that skill with "76 Trombones" in Music Man.

Lots of posts on Twitter that Marin Mazzie has passed away. Nothing official yet. So sad.

Marin is fine. She sends her love.

I would hate to think Frank Dilello got the scoop on anything.

Nope, she’s passed. It’s all over Twitter.

Playbill's reporting.

This is really sad. I got cancer a few years after Marin did and was going through chemo when she was beginning to re-emerge and perform and she was a great inspiration to me to see someone come out of that diagnosis and flourish. I work with a lot of theater artists, and I was hoping our paths might cross so I could tell her how much she helped me. I'm so glad she got to perform more before she died. Her reputation has definitely been burnished by her stint in The King and I. I think what she went through made her an even better performer.

I am stunned by how sad this makes me.

Lovely lady....

NYT...

RIP.

This is extremely sad news.

I was never really a fan of Marin Mazzie but to deny that she was a mega talent among her peers is useless. RIP to a great star, a great lady. Dim the lights for her, Broadway.

Saw her in Passion and enjoyed her ever since. A class act.

And one of the most genuinely nice people you could ever meet. I’m so sad to hear this.

[R115] - couldn't agree with you more - she was as lovely as she was talented - as is Jason. We have lost a major treasure.

Oh, that is such sad news. Was really hoping she'd pull through. Not only a class act, but also a very funny lady. Love this appearance and story she told from her Passion days.

Is this the Aaron Lazar everyone is getting so excited about? Yikes.

R118 Someone has died!

Marin was excellent as Anna in The King and I.

Agree R120. Far better than Kelli O’Blanda.

And she should have played Babe in The Pajama Game opposite Harry. Now that would have been a HOT pairing!

Aaron L was very good in Light in the Piazza, but I had to shut that Skivvies shit down ASAP. (Who really is the audience for The Skivvies? Post-collegiate theater nerds who think they're being naughty?)

Mazzie was a class act. She fought a valiant fight.

That said, I’ve alwas thought Jason seemed gay. He seems like a nice guy .

He's not at all gay. But he is a nice guy.

[quote]Upstart Crow relies on some really lame setups. It is basically a conventional family sitcom in Elizabethan dress. In fact, one of the lame running jokes is Elizabethans complaining about modern first world problems such as traffic delays. Funny once or twice, not for three seasons.

The British humor relies on repetitive jokes.

[quote]Dim the lights for her, Broadway.

She has the required number of credits, so there's no reason why they shouldn't.

[quote]Who really is the audience for The Skivvies?

Their friends. I cannot imagine how expensive it must be to be Lauren Molina's friend.

Baz Bamigboye just tweeted that Charlie Stemp will play Bert in Mary Poppins next fall at the Prince Edward Theatre in London opposite Zizi Strallen. Aladdin will close there on August 31st.

[quote]Charlie Stemp will play Bert in Mary Poppins

He reads too young for Bert! He's 25, but he looks 15.

Marin's passing is really hitting me hard. I always loved her work and she seemed like such a lovely lady. The video with Seth Rudetsky is hilarious. Jan Maxwell also really soared when she did a Chatterbox with Seth. I wish that was still available somewhere, because it was hilarious.

You mean this, r131?

Here is a better pic of Aaron Lazar

Thanks for the link, R132.

I can't watch all of it now, but I think it's in this interview that she says something along the lines of that to be a good artist or collaborator, one should always 'respect everybody, revere no one'. I often think about that line.

RIP, Jan. Another one gone far too soon. I hope that you're looking down on us from your rent controlled condo in the sky.

(And I love this photo of her.)

I saw Tootsie opening preview Tuesday. It was hilarious. The book was a nice nod to the original screenplay, but it was all so much fun. Great performances overall. Santino was brilliant, and a very believable woman. As stated in the previous thread, the score is utterly forgettable. A couple fun tunes, but nothing to match the fun of the book. I found myself wishing the two leads had sung a duet of “It Might Be You” at the finale. There’s a number the Julie character sings in a nightclub that is nicely performed but completely irrelevant and does nothing to further the story. Her big ballad is a snooze.

The Broadway setting works in a fun way. I loved be the movie but the musical “respected” the original. Some fun insider theatre references.

I went in with very low expectations and delighted with the show. If only it weren’t for that shitty score...

YES! Thank you for the Jan Maxwell link. Her Chatterbox session was really terrific. I had no idea she'd played roles like Evita and Reno Sweeney in her life. I wish she'd done more musicals.

Maxwell didn’t do more musicals because her unfairly subsidized digs needed constant cleaning and photographing.

I'd never heard Sondheim's Stavisky score before. It's lovely.

I'm very sad about Marin Mazzie as well. She really did seem like a lovely lady and a great talent.

When I read the news about Marin online I cried. I can't say I saw her in this and saw her in that because I didn't. I've seen her in concerts on PBS and I know she has a gorgeous voice and stunning to look at. But I've been following her story over the past few years and admired how she continued to work and was even well enough to take over as Anna and I know she gave so many other people in the same situation hope. I wanted her to beat it and win a Tony. God bless her for the strength she gave to others.

[quote]She has the required number of credits, so there's no reason why they shouldn't.

This is probably a dumb question but I'm going to ask it anyway: is there really a required number of credits for who gets honored and who doesn't? If so, exactly how many credits would one need? And how often do they make exceptions to the rule, like when they honored Joan Rivers?

Before Kiss Me, Kate, before Ragtime, before Passion.

[quote]This is probably a dumb question but I'm going to ask it anyway: is there really a required number of credits for who gets honored and who doesn't? If so, exactly how many credits would one need? And how often do they make exceptions to the rule, like when they honored Joan Rivers?

There was a lot of brouhaha when Joan Rivers died. The powers that be didn't want to dim for her, even though they had dimmed for other non-Broadway people such as Vincent Sardi, owner of Sardi's restaurant. They always keep the criteria a bit fuzzy. When Rivers died, they were trying to say that a person should have 5 Broadway credits. Then when Jan Maxwell died, and she had more than 5, they were hesitant because she wasn't a Broadway star. So it's all very haphazard for who gets acknowledged and who doesn't.

I’m devastated about Marin. She reminds me of Laurie Beechman in many ways

Who is it who determines if lights are dimmed or not? The League?

The Broadway League tries to pretend that they are the deciders, but technically it's the owners of the theaters. The Schubert Organization doesn't want to do it for anyone, but they usually get strong armed into doing it by Nederlander and Jujamcyn.

According to this NY Times article, yes, a committee at the Broadway League decides.

[quote]According to this NY Times article, yes, a committee at the Broadway League decides.

But in the case of Joan Rivers, Jordan Roth said their theaters were going to go ahead and dim and after a huge outcry, the "committee" reversed itself and they dimmed for Joan. So the committee doesn't really mean much when they can be so easily swayed.

STAVISKY is an altogether stunning score and, in many ways, the apogee and culmination of Sondheim's masterful 70s style, sharing pride of place with SWEENEY TODD.

I'm reading that Alain Resnais asked Sondheim to compose the score for Stavisky after he saw (and loved), YES... wait for it....

[quote]Then when Jan Maxwell died, and she had more than 5, they were hesitant because she wasn't a Broadway star. So it's all very haphazard for who gets acknowledged and who doesn't.

Check out what this guy has to say about whether or not to honor Jan Maxwell:

Who gives a fuck what that fat Samoan queen has to say.

Marin Mazzie is a legend not only for her talent but for the fact she's one of about 7 stars that never got torn apart on DL.

Everyone seemed to love her.

I only saw her live once, in "Passion", and she was a delight even in all that murkiness.

And, she has a long list of credits and 3 Tony nominations. She created roles in some major shows.

They'd better dim the lights.

I dim the lights

and think about you!

Oh please the lights should not be dimmed for every Tom, Dick and Mazzie who received Tony nominations. Thectheatre marquees would constantly be dark. And it smacks of the millennial “everyone gets a trophy” nonsense. It should be reserved for truly special and influential theatre artists.

I didn't realize they didn't dim for Tammy Grimes. What a travesty. She won two Tony Awards, created several original roles and produced an actress daughter. What more does one need to do?

Weird that Stemp would commit to a meh show that's not even new a year in advance - what's he going to do between now and then

[quote] The Schubert Organization

Oh dear

They didn't dim for Tammy Grimes?? That's crazy. Actors like Grimes and Mazzie were and ARE Broadway. I can totally understand not dimming for Joan Rivers. She dabbled on Broadway, but Mazzie had a consistent 25 year career in several Broadway shows and was very well known and admired. And Grimes was minor Broadway royalty.

[quote]Weird that Stemp would commit to a meh show that's not even new a year in advance - what's he going to do between now and then

Don’t you worry. I’ll keep him busy.

They dimmed for that black Valjean who fell from a fire escape. That fucked everything up.

[quote] Oh please the lights should not be dimmed for every Tom, Dick and Mazzie who received Tony nominations. Thectheatre marquees would constantly be dark. And it smacks of the millennial “everyone gets a trophy” nonsense. It should be reserved for truly special and influential theatre artists. [quote]

Hey Your Majesty, who will be appointed to determine who qualifies as a "truly special and influential theatre artist ? Both Jan Maxwell and Marin are deserving of the highest honor Broadway gives when someone passes in my view because they were both talented artists who spent the bullk of their careers on the professional stage. What does it take to dim the lights for a few minutes. It isn't a "trophy for everyone" situation. STFU with that shit.

If the basis for consideration is having at least 5 Broadway credits then they qualify by that standard also.

In fact, if you only dimmed the lights for actors who had at minimum 5 Broadway credits, you will still be working with a pool of people who represent les than half of 1 percent of all the actors who have ever appeared on Broadway.

Did they give Barbara Harris the honor? They did it for Joan Rivers because it would get a photo on the AP and the wires that featured the title of the theater owners current occupant.

No, I think only two theaters dimmed for him, the Imperial for sure, but I thought I heard about another doing it, too. I think Joan Rivers was the one who ruined it for everyone else.

[quote] Joan Rivers was the one who ruined it for everyone else.

That should be the title of her autobiography.

r150 (and r138 et al): It is a really lovely score....and he used a couple of cut songs from.....yes, Follies 9"Who Could Be Blue?" and "Bring on the Girls").

Fat Charlotte didn't dim the lights for Barbara Harris either, thinking no one would notice because Neil Simon died immediately after.

Who actually notices the lights being dimmed?

I would imagine all the thousands of people crowding the streets trying to get into their theaters pre-curtain time.

[quote]Who actually notices the lights being dimmed?

Ain't it a bitch?

I don't really understand why there's resistance at all - it surely doesn't cost anything, so why not just do it?

As for R155's rather ridiculous post, even if they went by included everyone who meets the criteria for the Tony's In Memoriam, they'd then only be running around 35 people a year. Hardly "constantly dark".

Charlotte St. Martin is an absolute imbecile, especially when she’s wearing her blonde wig.

[quote]I don't really understand why there's resistance at all - it surely doesn't cost anything, so why not just do it?

It's a headache for the House Manager of each theater. They're trying to get late stragglers in the door so the curtain can go up on time and then some bozo says, "You have to stop what you're doing and go press the button to turn off the lights, wait for 1 minute, then turn it back on." I think the issue is that it's just an inconvenient time.

I didn't realize that the lights INSIDE the theater dimmed. I, foolishly, assumed that the marquee dimmed, much like, say, lowering a flag on a government building, One solution would be to dim the interior lights, say, once a month and mention those who died in the previous month. Another option would be to dim the lights only in the theater in which that actor performed. I did not realize how randomly and inconsistently it was decided who gets the honor.

Jeez, if the Ambassador can dim the marquee lights for Loeffelholz, surely all of Broadway can make the effort for Marin.

Tootsie really is a terrific adaptation with a HORRIBLE mess of “music and lyrics”, nothing supports the story or characters and worse, NOT FUNNY.

[quote]Who actually notices the lights being dimmed?

This Datalounger.

Dim ALL the lights, bitches!

[quote]It's a headache for the House Manager of each theater. They're trying to get late stragglers in the door so the curtain can go up on time and then some bozo says, "You have to stop what you're doing and go press the button to turn off the lights, wait for 1 minute, then turn it back on." I think the issue is that it's just an inconvenient time.

The House Manager has nothing to do with the process. It's the head electrician, and it isn't a button, it's a time clock., and sometimes a series of switches.

[quote]I didn't realize that the lights INSIDE the theater dimmed. I, foolishly, assumed that the marquee dimmed, much like, say, lowering a flag on a government building, One solution would be to dim the interior lights, say, once a month and mention those who died in the previous month. Another option would be to dim the lights only in the theater in which that actor performed. I did not realize how randomly and inconsistently it was decided who gets the honor.

The lights inside the theater are NOT dimmed. It's the marquee, and if the head electrician really revered the performer, any light on the front of the theater, which is a bit more complicated, and makes the front of the theater completely dark, as if it were closed.

I lay the blame of this "will they or won't they?" confusion squarely at the feet of Charlotte St. Martin, who has turned a simple memorial into a crass advertisement. If it will make the news, like Rivers, Jeff L (did they really dim for him?) and the guy who went off the balcony, the lights get dimmed - otherwise, hey, they're dead, fuck 'em.

For what it's worth, individual theaters dim the lights on their own all the time, for a performer, a crew member....a long time usher, even. It isn't announced, just a quick, mostly private memorial for a colleague.

Re Jeff L., ^^^ according to that dreadful blog the theater dimmed the lights. Can't swear it actually happened, however.

The guy in r176 sounded like he said "Bravo, Elaine! Here's to the lady who lunged." It kinda works.

I really wish we could rename this thread “The dim all the lights for Tammy” edition. ...

[quote]I lay the blame of this "will they or won't they?" confusion squarely at the feet of Charlotte St. Martin, who has turned a simple memorial into a crass advertisement.

I think she often comes across as a fool in statements and interviews etc., but I've heard she has no real power and is basically just a figurehead. Anyone want to back up that assessment, or refute it?

I think the inches of an in memoriam thread on All That Chat should determine whether or not the lights are dimmed for a particular performer. At least 12".

What I know from first hand experience is that Charlotte St. Martin was in over her empty head since she took over at TBL in 2006, she was a Loews hotels maven who basically did nothing in her position there, but she kissed locals ass and loved “der theatetar” so when Bernstein left they gave her the spot. She has done NOTHING of merit and is usually an obstacle to anything practical because she’s a true idiot, you can see then cluelessness in her eyes. She loves power though and keeps certain pockets full. She also has a sassy collection of wigs to cover her vacant noggin. A complete fool.

Still reeling from the news that they didn't dim for Tammy Grimes. How could they dim for the Les Mis actor who fell and Jeff L (although that was admittedly forced upon them) and that cow Joan Rivers, and not for a true woman of the theatre like Tammy?

[quote]I really wish we could rename this thread “The dim all the lights for Tammy” edition. ...

I'm not dead yet!

I can't remember the last time I read tributes like the ones being posted for Marin. She touched so many lives and they need to dim the lights. Period.

I think she was genuinely loved and respected, both professionally and personally. No one has anything negative or snarky to say; people are sincerely grieving her loss. Danieley must be devastated.

St. Martin at least had the balls to take on the teamsters, with that casting agent scam to become unionised. Suck that one Telsey.

He probably would.

R146 that is So not so.

Sheridan Smith *is* Funny Girl. Coming to a theater near you!!

Why does she look so matronly?

They're dimming the lights for Marin Mazzie:

[quote]The Committee of Theatre Owners has decided to dim the lights of the Al Hirschfeld, Broadhurst, Gershwin, Gerald Schoenfeld, St. James, and Nederlander Theatres in her memory on Wednesday, September 19 at exactly 6:45pm for one minute.

Excellent. Thanks, r193.

This will please many. Justifiably.

If everything (or most things) about Tootsie are good, then why make it a musical at all? Would a straight play not suffice? (See also: Mean Girls, Pretty Boring Woman, Groundhog Day, ad nauseum).

r192 She sounds constantly out of breath.

[quote]She sounds constantly out of breath.

She looks more like Mother in Ragtime than Fanny Brice in Funny Girl.

She looks more like Mother in Hairspray.

WTF are people thinking when they cast Fanny Brice as a pretty gentile blonde? What makes Funny Girl special, if it's special at all, is that it's about a Jewish ugly duckling who against all odds succeeds in a blonde gentile world.

I realize most people don't have any idea who Fanny Brice was but still................

R200, actually I have seen several productions in Europe where they ignore that Fanny Brice is a historic person and simply play her as a character named "Fanny Brice". The show is improved for it. The historical baggage is what really sinks the show.

marin ❤️

Hardly, r 201. It' s the "historical baggage" that is the basis for the myths that make FUNNY GIRL work: ugly ducking turned to swan, rags to riches saga, a star is born and laugh clown laugh. Without those myths, the show is soap opera, which it never was.

Fanny Brice never turned into a swan. A plain girl with talent made it She dressed up well, never was any beauty nor was celebrated for it. In casting today, no reason to got for a a young Jewess look.

Well Funny Girl got rid of some of Fanny's "historical baggage". Where's her first husband?

What's up with only dimming the lights of six theaters? Is this how it's gonna play now? So and so only got *three* theaters! Gee, I hope when XYZ dies, she gets at least a dozen theaters... What kind of shit is this??

From the article:

[quote]The theatres dimming lights in her memory are significant to Ms. Mazzie's career. She appeared in three productions at the Al Hirschfeld Theatre (formerly the Martin Beck Theatre) Man of La Mancha (2003); Kiss Me, Kate (1999); and Into the Woods (1987). Her only Broadway appearance in a play was at the Broadhurst Theatre in Enron (2010). She also performed in Passion (1994) at the Gerald Schoenfeld Theatre (formerly the Plymouth Theatre) and in Bullets Over Broadway (2014) at the St. James Theatre. In 2017, Ms. Mazzie was inducted into the Theater Hall of Fame; her commemoration is at the Gershwin Theatre.

[quote]Although Ms. Mazzie never appeared at the Nederlander Theatre, her husband, Jason Danieley, currently appears in a featured role in Pretty Woman: The Musical at the theatre. The production will dedicate the performance that evening to her memory in addition to dimming the lights.

It still smacks of compromise.

On another note, I had no idea she was in the Theatre Hall of Fame. Not going to begrudge her the honor, but they had to give that to her as some kind of cancer consolation prize. I loved her and she was talented, but it's like inducting Rebecca Luker (or her husband) into the THoF.

" Not going to begrudge her the honor, but they had to give that to her as some kind of cancer consolation prize. I loved her and she was talented, but it's like inducting Rebecca Luker (or her husband) into the THoF."

Sounds to me like you're begrudging her, r208

Oh, bullshit, r204. She was an elegant woman (remarked by Katharine Hepburn) and noted for her couture, interior design and consummate abilities as a hostess.

I agree with r208 but this is not the time for discussing why.

Stop trying to make Marin Mazzie happen.

To people in the biz which theatre is the Feld, the Al Hirschfeld or the Gerald Schoenfeld?

I know, and I don't know how to say it without it coming out like that, but I swear I don't begrudge her the award. it's nice that she got something like that since the writing was on the wall that she'd never win a Tony (because of her illness). It's just always seemed like the THoF was a lot pickier about who got in.

I just went and looked at all the inductees. There are many names I don't know so I'll have to take their word for it, but based on the criteria, Mazzie certainly was eligible, and there were a few that weren't (Lorraine Hansberry, I'm looking at you). I remember the brouhaha when they denied it to Streisand, which I think was silly. She may not have stuck around, but Broadway never saw anyone like her and she was a massive draw. Was also surprised to see people like Jean Stapleton, who really never made much of a splash in theater, Maggie Smith, who rarely ever did theater in the US (unless they're counting abroad, as well, which I don't think they are), and Betty Buckley because outside of singing "Memory," who cares?

Also surprised to see who wasn't in there, such as Charles Busch, Hinton Battle, Boyd Gaines, John Randolph, Billy Wilson, Robert Moore, Harold Lang, Susan Stroman, Sandy Dennis, Craig Lucas, etc., etc. So I'm not sure I would have leapfrogged Mazzie over many of them, except for the fact that she was sick.

Also there's someone who is being inducted this year named James Houghton, but he's identified as an actor. At first I thought they meant Kenny from Knots Landing and I had to look him up because I didn't recall him being anything special to the theater, but they must mean the former artistic director of The Signature Theatre, who died last year. Why they'd call him an actor, I have no idea.

It was good to see who's been inducted and get a little more history of the organization perusing the website, though.

If you think Maggie "rarely did theatre in the U.S," you have your head stuck up your asshole. Try looking up her Broadway credits, you cretin child.

I did. She has exactly four.

She also toured “Private Lives,” both pre-Broadway and post-Broadway. Same with “Night and Day.”

But your comment about Jean Stapleton is truly ignorant, (“Jean Stapleton, who really never made much of a splash in theater”). Are you mad? Jean Stapleton was a true woman of the theatre! Besides her many Broadway credits (and a few off-Broadway), Stapleton spent every hiatus from All in the Family doing summer stock (often at her husband’s theatre in PA). She went back to the theatre as soon as her gig as Edith was finished, performing in major regional productions in LA, San Francisco (she had an ongoing relationship with ACT), Chicago, Boston, Seattle, etc etc. Stapleton considered TV to be the job she did to support her theatre career. “Never made much of a splash” indeed. Jerk.

So is Sheridan Smith the first nearly-obese, non-Jewish Fanny Brice?

[quote]Also there's someone who is being inducted this year named James Houghton, but he's identified as an actor.

Someone? Although he's listed only as "actor," James Houghton's fame wasn't as an actor (although he was one). His place as an honoree is due primarily to his founding and artistic directorship of Signature Theatre in NYC, his ten-year stint as director of the drama division at Juilliard, and his artistic directorship of the National Playwrights Conference at the Eugene O’Neill Theater Center. Really, r214, you should do a little investigating before posting, lest you make any more stupid statements.

I thought Amar Ramasar had been permanently let go from the final weeks of "Carousel"? This says he was back onstage after only missing one performance.

Don’t speak!

R220, The Post published a piece the day the news broke about Amar's suspension from City Ballet, saying he was out for the rest of the run of Carousel, too. And he did indeed miss that evening. But he came back the next day and is finishing out the run this weekend.

Does Amar have a big dick?

I hope so! Big and dark.

r218 I don't think Barbara "Shiksa" Cook had already gained weight when she did Funny Girl. This was her in 1960.

What a beautiful voice.

I assume Jason Danieley is out of Pretty Women for the moment. Poor guy gets stuck in a shitty show, has his role cut to almost nothing and now he loses his wife. I don’t know if it’ll be good for him to get back to work or not.

R226, the check still clears and he get points towards health insurance. He is doing just fine.

Not to diminish his suffering in any way, but her death must have been expected for the last couple of months at least, and it's possible that he's been grieving for some time already. He may find getting back to work helpful.

It’ll be weird in a few years when he’s remarried. He, like Gene Wilder, will forever be asked in every interview about his past beloved wife.

If nothing else, Jean Stapleton will always be remembered for introducing the song "(You've Gotta Have) Heart!" in Damn Yankees.

That would be the Feldshuh, r213....

Miss Stapleton was also in Juno....

Thank you R217

Glenda Jackson will actually have some competition for that Tony this spring.

Janet McTeer is giving an amazing performance in "Bernhardt/Hamlet", and, surprise surprise, the play is possibly the best work Theresa Rebeck has ever done.

Janet McTeer is always wonderful, but I doubt she'll be much of a threat to Glenda, come May (or come Elaine May).

R217 Stapleton should have stuck to Edith. I saw her in several productions and she had the uncanny ability to turn every single character into Edith Bunker and that includes Dolly Levy and Mrs. Lovett. In Dolly, she even sang "Look at the dingbat now, fellas".

Wasn't Stapleton also the original Sue in Bells Are Ringing?

Yes, R237, and she repeats her role in the movie, as she did in the movie version of "Damn Yankees."

[quote] Someone? Although he's listed only as "actor," James Houghton's fame wasn't as an actor (although he was one). His place as an honoree is due primarily to his founding and artistic directorship of Signature Theatre in NYC, his ten-year stint as director of the drama division at Juilliard, and his artistic directorship of the National Playwrights Conference at the Eugene O’Neill Theater Center. Really, [R214], you should do a little investigating before posting, lest you make any more stupid statements.

I actually DID do some investigating, which I detailed in that same post.

[quote] Also there's someone who is being inducted this year named James Houghton, but he's identified as an actor. At first I thought they meant Kenny from Knots Landing and I had to look him up because I didn't recall him being anything special to the theater, but they must mean the former artistic director of The Signature Theatre, who died last year. Why they'd call him an actor, I have no idea.

Why not cite him for what he did do for the theater, and that is Artistic Director. There are several other people in the HoF who held the same position and are referred to as such. They clearly aren't inducting him because he carried a spear in Richard III back in 1947.

[quote] But your comment about Jean Stapleton is truly ignorant, (“Jean Stapleton, who really never made much of a splash in theater”). Are you mad? Jean Stapleton was a true woman of the theatre! Besides her many Broadway credits (and a few off-Broadway), Stapleton spent every hiatus from All in the Family doing summer stock (often at her husband’s theatre in PA). She went back to the theatre as soon as her gig as Edith was finished, performing in major regional productions in LA, San Francisco (she had an ongoing relationship with ACT), Chicago, Boston, Seattle, etc etc. Stapleton considered TV to be the job she did to support her theatre career. “Never made much of a splash” indeed. Jerk.

I stand by my statement. You may want to see a proctologist to pull out whatever is lodged up your ass.

[quote]the play is possibly the best work Theresa Rebeck has ever done.

So it’s only three-quarters shit?

R240

Your statement was ignorant. That doesn't change just because you stand by it.

The rules about dimming the theater lights are incredibly bizarre and have seemingly been used to cause hurt feelings to survivors lately. Joan Rivers death was important because she literally died at the medical clinic that specialized in treating Broadway voices -- her life may not have been important to Broadway but her death was. But really if an actor has performed in 5 Broadway productions - how fucking hard is it to dim all the lights? Why this bullshit of 4 theaters for Carole Shelley and now 6 for Marin Mazzie?

Stapleton was also the mildly psychic friend to Meg Ryan in You've Got Mail.

And Mrs. Strakosh in Funny Girl.

On the whole, I think she made more than a splash.

[quote] Your statement was ignorant. That doesn't change just because you stand by it.

Ok, let's put it another way, since you want to count summer stock as something for which the HoF honors someone.

There are a LOT of no-name actors who made a career of regional and summer stock. There are a ton of actors who have made a living doing Off and Off-Off shows in NYC for 40 and even 50 years. I don't see them in the Hall of Fame.

The only reason Stapleton is in there is because she was a huge TV star. Her Bway career may have more than the requisite credits, but she basically played the equivalent of Fruma-Sarah (or less) in each of them (with the exception of Arsenic and Old Lace, done AFTER All in the Family.)

If you're going to honor Stapleton for all the stock/regional work she did (and I find the claim arguable), then you should honor Harold J. Kennedy, Leslie Lyles, Laura Esterman, or even Reed Birney (who is probably coming).

Stapleton is in because she was a tv star. And the person upthread who said every performance she gave was Edith is correct. Stapleton was a marvelous actress, and her work as Edith still holds up today. But she was also a one trick pony.

I follow Jason on Insta (because I genuinely like him and I'm a fan) and based on comments friends were making on his few posts about Marin it sounded like she wasn't in great shape for the past few months. And she passed at home which is always a blessing. Jere Shea posted a very nice and brief tribute to her on his Instagram.

Did Jere apologize for setting her pussy on fire with Icy Hot?

Does Jere Shea still act or is he doing something else now?

I"ve heard something.

He holds himself out as an actor, still, and has an agent (per his website jereshea.com); also coaches and performs. I don't recall seeing him after Passion, and I seem to recall at that time that he had found it an unhappy experience--but I don't remember why.

Jere's in the new Ben Affleck/Matt Damon produced series on Showtime -- City On A Hill -- airing in 2019.

Bring it, Jonny!

[quote]This is really sad. I got cancer a few years after Marin did and was going through chemo when she was beginning to re-emerge

A few years after? She “got cancer,” or was diagnosed, a little over three years ago, specifically during Zorba at Encores in May, 2015. She “re-emerged” a few months later with a concert performance with her husband.

Jere did Damn Yankees revival with Bebe in San Diego (?) but Jarrod Emmick replaced him for Broadway and won the Tony. After that he disappeared. He's still hot.

What happened actually was that Jere Shea did Damn Yankees out at Sand Diego's Old Globe Theatre. When the show found its finances and could move to Broadway, Jere was offered the new Sondheim musical Passion and then turned down the Damn Yankees because he couldn't do both shows.

While it might seem in retrospect that he made a terrible decision, at the time, getting the lead in a new Sondheim musical was about the best job offer a young actor could ever hope for.

Marin/ZORBA....

If Jean Stapleton had not starred in an enormously successful TV show there is a very good chance she would not be in the theater hall of fame no matter if she originated the role of Mrs Strakosh or not.

If Sondra Lee had been in such a success on television her name would be on there as well.

Patricia Birch is only on there because the dreadful Grease became a phenomenon. Ron Field never had such a popular hit.

Hassard Short, Joseph Urban, and Penny Fuller needed hit TV shows as well.

Sheesh people are dumb.

[quote]Ron Field never had such a popular hit.

"Cabaret" begs to differ.

It's called The Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Talent.

Get over it, everyone!

[quote] If Jean Stapleton had not starred in an enormously successful TV show there is a very good chance she would not be in the theater hall of fame

You're such an asshole. Stapleton had eight Broadway shows to her credit, in addition to her innumerable off-Broadway and regional theatre credits. It's "theatre" hall of fame, not "Broadway" hall of fame.

Jean Stapleton also toured the country in her one woman show about Eleanor Roosevelt.

(I'm not saying she deserves to be in the Theater Hall Of Fame. I'm just adding to her stage credits).

[quote]If nothing else, Jean Stapleton will always be remembered for introducing the song "(You've Gotta Have) Heart!" in Damn Yankees.

Well, technically she didn't introduce it. Russ Brown, along with Nathaniel Frey, Jimmie Komack, and Eddie Phillips introduced it early in Act One when the action moves to the ballpark. Stapleton sang a little reprise (with some kids) later in the show.

Of course it can work the other way as well as being too famous as both a huckster and notorious as the husband of Elizabeth Taylor.

Mike Todd. He lacked the sonorous voice of Burton.

It's you who's the gaping asshole the size of Brazil R260 for thinking that Stapleton would be on that list without AITF.

Many people who I clearly noted would be on the list as well if only for their theatrical credits.

But then as a hall of fame not an esteemed list of theatrical credits I guess she belongs.

Did Jere’s comment include a photo of him in his Act 1 Scene 1 costume from Passion?

Who is this nutcase??

Leslie Lyles, Reed Birney and Laura Esterman's Broadway (and theater!) credits did not equal Jean Stapleton's. I wouldn't even say that Penny Fuller's and Sondra Lee's did.

If Ron Field had directed and choreographed the film of Cabaret he would probably be on the list as well. Same with Joe Layton and the film of Sound of Music.

[quote]I don't think Barbara "Shiksa" Cook had already gained weight when she did Funny Girl.

Her weight gain was slow and steady, and began after her affair with Arthur Hill (whom she identifies in her book as the great love of her life) crashed and burned in 1965. By the time she did the Lincoln Center "Show Boat" in 1966, she was not quite the "Bikini Barb" she'd been in "Something More" in 1964 (her musical flop with Hill). She was up a little more by the time of "Funny Girl" (James Mitchell, who was one of her two Nicky Arnsteins, thought her weight gain was pronounced). By the time of "The Grass Harp" in 1972, she definitely had a "matronly" figure. After that came her tour in "The Gershwin Years," and that's when she emerged as a genuine "full figure girl" (although NYC didn't see the new Babs till her legendary concert at Carnegie Hall in 1975).

R266 is clearly Stapleton's mentally disturbed child.

[quote]Who is this nutcase??

Ten guesses, r266. All the earmarks are there.

The "Stapleton did not deserve her Hall of Fame Place!!!" nutjob might also be that alcoholic mess who goes on rants every couple of months before collapsing in a stupor. But usually that one posts later in the evening.

Why is the wide as a mack truck Smith as a young Fanny Brice wearing a dress from the mid 40s and on the stage of an opera house?

Even more, why is the wide as a mack truck Sheridan Smith even playing Fanny Brice in the first place? That performance would never have passed Broadway muster, so I'm surprised they are televising a past performance of it in the US, where she will be laughed off the screen.

Good God, how ironic was it that Marin Mazzie had to sing the lyrics “Life is what you do while you’re waiting to die” in Zorba after being given a cancer diagnosis?

Actually, it was the opposite of "ironic," if one is using the word correctly.

How pedantic of you, R275.

I’M the Stapleton who should be revered for my theatre performances, and don’t you motherfuckers forget it!

"Ironic" is commonly misused, often to incorrectly mean "coincidental."

No, R278/Pedantic One, I didn’t mean to use the term “ironic” as a synonym of “coincidental.” I meant it more like a synonym of “paradoxical.”

You've lost me, R279. Where's the paradox?

Jean Stapleton seems to have had an entire brood of alcohol syndrome affected children who don't seem to realize that there have been quite a few people who have had as impressive a number or more so of credits in the American theater and dedicated their lives to it as much as she who will never be members of the Hall of Fame.

Because they weren't TV stars.

Um, what?

Will you two queens go to bed?

That's hilarious! I KNEW it was going to be this commercial as soon as I saw the headline, even before I opened the thread. From the very first time I saw it, I can't believe the term "woman" came out of his mouth. It's the craziest thing! NO way he isn't gay.

Anyone over the age of 25 going to Elsie Fest?

Sorry, wrong thread obviously. It does with the thread about the "straight" guy on the Match.com commercial. I'll bet all he talks about on dates with women is Follies and who made the best Rose in Gypsy. He's probably reading this thread right now.

[quote]He, like Gene Wilder, will forever be asked in every interview about his past beloved wife.

Keep him away from Kathie Lee Gifford.

Quit while you're ahead, r281.

Oops, too late for that. In that case, just quit. Please. You seem genuinely unhinged, and - the worst sin of all - you are not entertaining us or telling us anything useful.

According to the local CBS 11 pm news here in NYC, Amar and the other fellow who had been suspended from NYCB have now been permanently terminated. Fired now, not suspended.

Broadway World is frothing at the mouth about #dimforMarin. I find that the squabbling overshadows the death itself.

Thank you for telling me I'm ahead as I've got more sense than all of you put together.

You are unhinged saying TV success does not matter. It is the theatrical profession that matters!

Talk to Maggie Smith and Downtown Abbey if you want to hear about what TV success can do to an actor's fame. Yes she's listed but because she's had a glorious career in leading roles on the American stage. Stapleton Ha! And I like her enormously in Damn Yankees and Bells are Ringing and saw her in Cinderella on stage. Edith was a terrible waste of her considerable talents.

If Streisand did not have the overwhelming success of her TV shows, recording career and the most successful movie debut of all time how exactly did she merit her special Tony? Give me an answer for that.

It's really surprising - here comes the confluence of two mighty rivers - that Marin never played Sally. Her Losing My Mind is one of the best perfs of it, she had the right look for it, she was bffs with Donna Murphy and tight with Sondheim so it's surprising she didn't book the Encores, even Christine Noll has played Sally regionally ... does anyone have any insight on this?

I don't know, R292. But Marin was incredibly statuesque and always looked gorgeous; not sure how that would have worked with her as a Sally - especially had she been playing opposite Murphy's Phyllis.

Although I know discussing a woman's weight makes me a bad feminist, re. Sheridan Smith's. This performance was filmed towards the end of an UK tour. Between the first Menier production, the West End transfer, and the subsequent tour she dealt with some very sad and public personal and mental health problems, and also the loss of her father. One supposes any weight gained during that period is attributable to that, and to medication. I hope that she's better now - she really is a great talent.

[quote]One supposes any weight gained during that period is attributable to that, and to medication.

It's not just Sheridan Smith's weight gain. Her costumes and wigs are terrible.

I think Marin looked much too glamorous for Sally. Not that Sally can't be glamorous. But Ben did marry Phyllis, presumably because she's more of a trophy wife.

Opposite Murphy, r293? How about opposite Blythe Danner!

Sheridan Smith is more suitable for Tracy Turnblad now.

She'd be a better Edna.

The LOOK.....

Just saw a tv commercial for GARY with Lane and Martin. Doesn't start previews until the end of March and it already has a commercial airing?

r292, how do you know Marin was tight with Sondheim?

r289, the firing is all over the press this morning.

Beyond looking fat, she’s very audibly out of breath in a number of those clips. Who thought it was good to release this?

I have a new personal anthem. Thank you Cloris' Sis!

[quote]Talk to Maggie Smith and Downtown Abbey

I always figured she was more of an Uptown Girl.

A bit o' Betty.....

Cloris laments....

Apparently Cloris had heard Vivian Blaine doing that number a couple of times.

Betty! Unmatched belt!

Sheridan Smith must be gulping clotted cream 24 hours a day. How can a person do that much dancing and moving around and still be overweight?

And Betty as Norma Desmond can belt the word ME, unlike some other nameless actress.

R302 Thank you for posting that clip. I was not familiar with Claiborne Cary and have watched a few more clips of her on youtube. She was wonderful.

I loved Sheridan Smith in Funny Girl in the initial run at the Menier Chocolate Factory. The theatre there is very intimate, I was sitting only about 30 feet from her and she teared up regularly. She was wonderful but not convincing as Jewish in the least. I kept on thinking how fabulous she’d be in Mack & Mabel. The guy playing Nicky was awful. I loved the actresses playing Mrs. Brice and Mrs. Strakosh.

I can belt it just fine R309

Can anyone explain to an eldergay who Sheridan Smith is and why she'd ever be cast as the star of Funny Girl? Anywhere?

r304 Great belt. But also great head voice, which we don't hear a lot from her, well-integrated with her chest voice. Sounds angry.

There is one person on here who proclaims everything in London is astonishingly good. When confronted with documentary evidence to the contrary, the claim changes to “well, not when I saw him/her/it!” rather than admitting shitty taste

Yes, like the hype over Imelda Staunton's Gypsy. Then we all finally got to see her shit the bed with it.

[quote]Can anyone explain to an eldergay who Sheridan Smith is and why she'd ever be cast as the star of Funny Girl? Anywhere?

Sheridan Smith is a British actress. She's high profile over there because she's done a lot of tv. She's the "go to" favorite for tv movies.

Here she is in a tv movie based on National Treasure Cilla Black. Everyone agreed that Sheridan's "Kermit the Frog" voice was still 100 times better than Cilla Black's nasal-whine singing.

And she couldn't get arrested in the rest of the English-speaking world.

She may be a big star in England, but it hasn’t translated to anywhere else. That’s why I’m surprised they’re airing her Fatty Brice performance over here.

I looked at the list of theaters it's streaming at, R319, and there are very few. None within hundreds of miles of where I live -- Nashville - and we get almost all of the streaming events at at least one theater. There is so little demand for this, which makes me think that it is a legal maneuver; perhaps if it is steamed, they get production credit or rights on subsequent revivals or something like that? I don't now how the theater works, but I suspect this is more about maintaining some rights, and not because the production was so brilliant it needs to be seen.

They don’t own rights to the show itself, and no one is going to want to do this version of it over here.

[quote] Who is this nutcase??Leslie Lyles, Reed Birney and Laura Esterman's Broadway (and theater!) credits did not equal Jean Stapleton's. I wouldn't even say that Penny Fuller's and Sondra Lee's did.

I'm the person who brought up Stapleton in the first place, but I'm not the person who brought up Penny Fuller and Sondra Lee. I've actually been off DL since yesterday morning. I'm not really sure where Sondra Lee came from, but I would say she doesn't belong in the THoF (and isn't).

And I would say the "nutcases" are the people so vociferously demanding That Jean Stapleton deserves to be in the HoF and are being rude and abusive. I've been nothing but polite about it. I can't speak for the other person who chimed in who feels as I do.

Sheridan is so overrated in England, and she went on fuck all during Funny Girl, as she kept having breakdowns, which was actually getting falling down drunk ALOT. Jesus when she lost some stupid TV award and then went AWOL, she is an indulged head case

[quote] A few years after? She “got cancer,” or was diagnosed, a little over three years ago, specifically during Zorba at Encores in May, 2015. She “re-emerged” a few months later with a concert performance with her husband.

I'm sorry, are you actually accusing me of making the story up because I got a date wrong? For what purpose would I have to say that Marin inspired me by getting through her cancer treatment and going back to work while I was going through my own chemo treatments other than to pay tribute to her? What kind of a person are you to find any fault with that? So I didn't realize she went back to work that soon after finishing treatment. Are you that devoid of any kindness in your own life that you would have to try and bring someone else down for something like this?

Frau alert

Hey gang! Let’s make Marin’s death all about us!

I saw that show on opening night (in the last row of the balcony, I think), and Phyllis Newman blew the roof off the theater. It was a goofy little subplot and she ran away with the show.

SO nice to see all the big print ads for Broadway shows in today's Sunday NY Times Fall Season preview. Now if they could only resurrect Al Hirschfeld.

So the building rage that not all the Broadway theaters will dim their lights for Marin has become very potent, will this finally cause that cunt St. Martin to be banished to hell? She’s worthy of a Shubert Alley firing squad.

Theatertalk. DEAD. Will they dim the lights?

Regarding the clips from the UK: I think it's a mistake to judge any theatre performance, no matter how well filmed, on a filmed clip. Whether it be professional or a bootleg. It is such a completely different experience in the house watching a performance versus on the screen. Always.

There are things you forgive or don't even notice when you are in the house that can take complete focus when watching it in a clip. Everything about it is different. The quality of the sound. The energy. How an audience energy comes into play in the theatre. You completely choose what you are seeing in theatre. In a filmed clip the director or person filming it chooses who and how you see it. It completely can change it.

There many performances that wouldn't have had near the impact on me if I hadn't seen them live. Also there are performances that I have tried to watch on PBS or such that completely have not translated into the thing I saw and felt when it was onstage live in front of me.

I don't feel I can really judge a theatre performance fully unless I've seen it live. Nor can I judge someone else's opinion on something if they have seen it live and I haven't. They are different experiences.

Sheridan made a big splash in Legally Blonde and won the Olivier. When she had her breakdown during Funny Girl and went off on the producers on social media I really thought the show would shutter but it continued for, I think, 6-8 weeks with her understudy who got the 'star is born' treatment from the press. I think she was forced to do the tour as a way of making up for those absences. She only played certain dates and the understudy did the rest.

[quote]I think it's a mistake to judge any theatre performance, no matter how well filmed, on a filmed clip. Whether it be professional or a bootleg. It is such a completely different experience in the house watching a performance versus on the screen.

I partly agree with you, but there are certain things that can be judged from a clip, like the quality of a performer's singing (if it's a musical), whether or not they are well cast in a part in terms of looks, age, type, and so on.

I almost came to blows with Phyllis Newman at the Metropilitan Room coat check about 5 years ago. I can't remember what the issue was bit I'm certain I was right. She was pulling a grand lady act. We were there for Marilyn Maye, of course.

Did you attempt to unhook her from her oxygen tank, r335?

[quote]I almost came to blows with Phyllis Newman at the Metropilitan Room coat check about 5 years ago. I can't remember what the issue was bit I'm certain I was right. She was pulling a grand lady act. We were there for Marilyn Maye, of course.

How much do you get paid to work the coat check at the Metropolitan Room? Are the tips good?

I imagine when the producers moved Funny Girl to the West End, they put it in Sheridan's contract that the show would be filmed. I imagine they had ideas of it being shown on PBS like Imelda Gypsy. When Sheridan broke down, they couldn't film it, so they forced her to do the tour to get the show filmed.

I call bs on R332. Michael Jeter’s joyously iconic performance in Grand Hotel at the Tonys communicates exactly the same on video as it did live in the theatre. Same with Jennifer Holliday’s And I Am Telling You. If it doesn’t work in front of a camera, it never worked to begin with.

r317 Flat flat flat flat flat.

r332 Singing flat, running out of breath, falling down drunk, and having a breakdown are easy enough to notice without having to see a show live.

It's too bad about Theater Talk. I thought Jesse Green made the show smarter and funnier. Even cattier, if that's your thing.

Yeah, I loved Theater Talk. I even liked Michael Riedel on it. Susan Haskins was a strong woman to perpetually put up with his bullshit.

They will dim three marquee lights for Theatertalk. The McDonald's that was once the Candler, The Time Square theater and the rib join that was the Liberty.

I'm looking at the tour stops for Dolly. Lots of one week stands....even the LA engagement is relatively short.

It only takes that long for Betty to run out of stagehands to blow.

Are you r291? Cause r291 is an asshole.

Surprisingly, the LA stop of Dolly is shorter than SF and Chicago. Maybe that’s because they realize that LA theatre goers aren’t going to be swayed by a second-tier Dolly leading a third-tier tour cast,

The Theatre Talk obit.

Damn, I was hoping to finally see the plaster on Patrick Pacheco’s face start to crack like in Death Becomes Her.

Start to crack? That process began years ago!

R335 = Angela Lansbury. Phyllis didn't stand a chance.

"SO nice to see all the big print ads for Broadway shows in today's Sunday NY Times Fall Season preview."

And from start to finish, it couldn't be more depressing,

Damn it, I really hate that about "Theater Talk." I've loved it so much over the years. Going by the article in the Times, it sounds like some corporate shithead wanted to dumb it down and Haskins told them to fuck off.

Oh, well. Guess this means we gotta make ourselves satisfied with Frank Dilella from now on.

I just got in from seeing "The Nap" at MTC. Very entertaining play with a nice little twist in Act 2. But the real reason to see it is Ben Schnetzer, who is sex on legs. Just watching him take his shirt off is worth the price of admission all by itself.

Ben Schnetzer was in a great movie called Pride (directed by Matthew Warchus) about the gay supporters of the Thatcher-era striking miners.

I found PRIDE cloying and annoying, but to each his own. Imelda "I Fucked Up GYPSY" Staunton was especially strident and irritating. Really disliked it, sorry.

And, bringing it full circle, Warchus fucked up FOLLIES with the Blythe "Bumping Into Chorus Boys" Danner/Judith "I Can't Sing, Peoples!" Ivey first Broadway revival, though Gregory Harrison and Treat Williams were good. I do admit, I found the opening very haunting with the flashlight effect and the production playing in an actual decaying theater, the Belasco, which has since been pleasingly renovated. Subsequently, the National Theater revival has all others beat and leaves Warchus and Eric Schaeffer with egg on their smug faces.

Funny about what you see on stage and then on screen or TV.

Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

I saw the Applause number with Franklin live at the Palace and it worked. Now I see it on video and it's total shit. That's not what I saw on stage. What happened? Was it shit then and everybody was wrong? Ron Field was really no good? Yet the opening from Cabaret is wonderful. It can't be the same man!

Someone has to explain the J Vivian Bond show to me. They are singing Streisand; in a terrible, low register. Ok, I’ll say it, a “man’s” voice, and not a very good one.

I loved Kiki & Herb but to take this singing seriously when it is just....well.....so not ready for primetime.

The Theater Talk news is a bummer. Though, unlike apparently all of the shrieking pearl-clutchers at ATC, I actually enjoyed Riedel as host. He often seemed more knowledgeable and passionate about theatre history than his old column suggested. He easily could have hosted the show alone. I don't think you can say the same about Susan Haskins who... means well, I'm sure... but who comes across like that one aunt you take to the theatre occasionally.

Now, where the hell will Ethan Mordden go to promote his latest book? No way, Paul Wontorek is gonna be interviewing a theatre historian.

Jesse and Susan should podcast Theater Talk instead. You're reading this, Jesse, right?

[quote]I almost came to blows with Phyllis Newman at the Metropilitan Room coat check about 5 years ago. I can't remember what the issue was bit I'm certain I was right. She was pulling a grand lady act. We were there for Marilyn Maye, of course.

Undoubtedly the gayest thing I've read today.

Marin might not have gotten to play Sally, but it sounds like she did play Dot. I think it's from a concert of some sort. I really will miss her. She was terrific!

I do wonder if Follies could work with a sexy Sally like Marin. Sure, you could frump her up a bit, but would it work? I guess Bernadette was a pretty sexy Sally, but she was still petite and not statuesque like Marin. Would it throw off the dynamic to have a sexy Sally AND Phyllis? Or maybe Phyllis could just be cold and regal. Maybe she used to be beautiful, but a loveless marriage has hardened her and Sally's starting to look better and better to Ben. After all, the script does say Sally's supposed to look almost exactly like the girl she was in her 20's. That might be an interesting take.

Haskins was actually a sharp interviewer because she always brushed up on the subject at hand, to guide the talk to interesting topics. She did it subtly, so you always noticed Riedel more, but they made a great team, and the shows really moved along at a snappy pace.

Jesse Green is good, too. Knows his stuff. He's less colorful than Riedel but more insightful. I've seen many host duos at work on interview shows, and I think Haskins-Riedel and Haskins-Green are the best.

I don't care for some of the other co-hosts Haskins has featured, because they don't necessarily know enough to keep the talk interesting, but that's just my opinion.

When you think of people like Elaine Stritch cutting up, and so many writers and directors discussing their work, and getting to know new people like Michael Urie and Charlie Stemp, it seems a bitter blow to lose this program.

About the live vs. recorded thing - I saw Imelda Staunton play Rose in Gypsy live and I assure you that she was indeed brilliant. I remember getting so excited that her performance was being captured and preserved forever. I told all my friends that she was damn near definitive and this would be the best filmed Gypsy yet. Imagine my unpleasant surprise when I finally saw that recorded performance. That was literally nothing like what I saw on that stage earlier in the year. All the charm, humor, and nuance that had delighted me in her performance were nowhere to be found and had been replaced with shrill, psychotic screaming. I know Lonny Price directed the filmed version, but did he go to Imelda and tell her to play it manic and angry from the get-go? I really want to know what happened there, because I feel sorry for Imelda. She really was brilliant in that role. The performance I saw was honestly a lot like Tyne Daly's performance...if Tyne Daly could really sing the score. They were both real actors in the role and it made such a difference.

Agree about Ben Schnetzer. And I had a HUGE crush on his dad, Stephen Schnetzer back in the.................70's? eek. I saw PRIDE and loved it. I thought Ben was excellent. Then I saw him in The Book Thief and didn't realize it was the same actor. He just needs that one special role to make him a star.

I loved “Pride,” too, and Ben Schnetzer is totally hot.

"Ben Schnetzer"

With a name like that, no wonder he's not a star.

What's with all these idiots keeping their TERRIBLE original names?

"Rock Hudson" is a star's name.

"Roy Harold Scherer, Jr." is the guy who fixes your car.

How 1950s of you, r368,

Theater Talk could do without Haskins. It couldn't do without Riedel. It had become somewhat dull after he left. And he wasn't even bitchy on it. He was a gracious interviewer.

Ben Schnetzer looks fat in 'The Truth About the Harry Quebert'

Shia LeBeouf, Leonardo DiCaprio, Arnold Schwarzennegger, Leighton Meister, Alanis Morissette, Saxon Sharbino, and Chord Overstreet would all beg to differ with r368.

Anybody go to SpongeBob closing?

Alice Ripley lets it rip on FB:

"Gary gets 1 theatre, Marin gets 6, Joan Rivers gets all the theatres. How? What is this, a tiered popularity contest for the dead, following arbitrary rules? Or are we Hollywood now, and all we have to do is buy a star on the walk of fame? Do they think we live here in NYC cause it's so cheap? It's called committment. It's beyond disrespectful. Very very disappointed in my family. Extremely so. So, a panel of voters get to decide if we've 'kept at it' enough?:"

So any word on Ben Schnetzer's love life? Is he gay, straight, or floating somewhere in between?

R375 It's like the Tony nominations that make no sense.

Theater people are craven nutjobs.

It's hard to imagine they could have made the dimming-the-lights issue even worse, but this idea that we're now going to rate dead people with how many theaters will dim their lights is almost like a parody

It doesn't even make sense. Dimming the lights has full visual impact only if ALL the lights are dimmed. If it's only done in, say, one theatre, that's no different visually from a blown circuit breaker.

Having said that, when it's Alice Ripley's turn, I'm sure Rupert will be happy to dim the lights at Hello Deli.

Oh R336, don’t ever leave.

The one thing about Sally in Follies is that you have to believe she's a bit delicate and fragile. She raves about things like seeing Phyllis' house in a popular magazine. In order for "Losing My Mind" to work, she can't be as brittle or resilient as Phyllis. I think in some ways, Sally is intimidated by Phyllis (maybe not intentionally). Marin doesn't give off that fragility. She seems like a woman who could hold her own against Phyllis. I also think this was why Imelda really didn't work in the role. Sally can't be a steamroller.

Whoa, Gary only got ONE theater??? What's the logic in that?

my partner and I were at the Players Club last week and I found this on the stairs, someone must have dropped it. Looks like several NY theatre actors are part of a new television pilot. I don't know how interesting that is to anyone here but as I read these threads avidly and never have anything to add, I thought I would post it.

Lots of names I recognize, Amy Carlson (blue bloods) Michelle Hurst (orange is the new black) and some Broadway actors I have seen mentioned here

r383 here. Just FYI Looks like this could be a sequel to HOMELAND. IMDB says its the same casting agent

A sequel to Homeland with that shitty, no-name cast? Doubtful.

I hope this bullshit about "who-warrants-how-many-theatres-dimmed" bites Charlotte on her big fat pompous ass. She started ruining Broadway the day she took over for Jed.

get a load of Queen Randal D. Bumblefuss, BFA, mantitoba community college 1983, texting from the non-equity lounge who paid top dollar to see Johnny Orisni's sausage in THE NANCE and was rebuffed at the stage door.

Post your credits, CUNT.

Love,

Amy Carlson, (pausing for a moment from counting her Blue Bloods residuals from the weekend totaling more ant r386 will see in a lifetime unless she becomes a bank teller.)

oops sorry r386, I meant r385

Wow! Amy Carlson. What a GET! A fat 50 year old no one under 60 has ever heard of.

And Jonny Orsini, who did one play and then went into cold storage for four years. Such a coup!

Also- who has readings of a pilot for a network show at the Players Club? It's likely by some no-name trust fund baby who wants to dabble in TV writing and decided to go about it all wrong and pay for a reading.

wow someone really hates amy carlson. ?? Hope r389 is nowhere near actual show business with that nasty mouth

r383 here. I guess my "find" wasn't such a find after all. Didn't mean to start a flame war over Amy Carlson of all people. Anyway just disregard, I thought it was interesting but I am not in show business

R383, you didn't do anything wrong. It's the asshole at R387 I was reacting to. No one gives a fuck about Amy Carlson, good or bad.

r383, well I appreciated your post because it reminded me of James McCaffrey, who I have seen on many shows and was so hot ATWT when I was a kid. Pushing 60 and still looking pretty damn doable in my book

Don't let the sniping discourage you. Anyone who is triggered by Amy Carlson should seek help

here is James McCaffery

I’m so glad my son Jonny is still doing well.

R392 - R383 IS R387. They're also, R388, R390 and R391

So the same person saying they hope someone isn't in show business with that "nasty mouth", and claiming they don't want to start a flame war over Amy Carlson, is the same person calling someone else a cunt because they don't consider Carlson a star. I think we have a new loon.

what is Jane Houdyshell like in person? Does anyone know her?

Oh come now, Amy Carlson isn't well known enough to have a loon. (I had to look her up.) ; )

Are they all the same person?? That's nuts.

seems like they should just come up with some algorhythm to determine who they dim the lights for and stick to that. If it gets too subjective, it kind of drags the whole thing down into a political thing rather than just a nice way to honor someone deserving

Algorithm.

r383 deserves props for posting. Perfect fodder for an anonymous gossip thread. Well done!

[quote]It's hard to imagine they could have made the dimming-the-lights issue even worse, but this idea that we're now going to rate dead people with how many theaters will dim their lights is almost like a parody

Agreed. So unfortunate. Seems like, henceforth, this will now be an issue almost every time someone in the theater dies.

[quote]Seems like they should just come up with some algorhythm to determine who they dim the lights for and stick to that. If it gets too subjective, it kind of drags the whole thing down into a political thing rather than just a nice way to honor someone deserving

But now, apparently, they'd also have to come up with an algorithm that determines HOW MANY theaters should dim their lights. It's a freaking quagmire.

[quote]I also think this was why Imelda really didn't work in the role. Sally can't be a steamroller.

I see what you mean, but I think Imelda came across as fragile in a manic way.

I'm confused. I always thought the marquee lights were dimmed, then I read that article which made me think it was just the interior lights. So..what lights are dimmed, exactly? And it is pretty pathetic that they deem some people as worthy of 2 theaters, or 4 theaters, etc. Either dim them all, or do nothing.

The exterior lights are dimmed -- or, rather, shut off completely. Not the interior lights.

Oh sad fan-gurl R389, really? "…some no-name trust-fund baby"? Posts tell so mug, like how little you know of the business or The Players Club.

R391 neither is R389

I read this somewhere, it makes sense to me … "I wish there was some standard "ceremony" to dimming the lights. And certainly at the appointed time ALL lighted Broadway houses dim the marquee. The honor of the Industry. It'd be nice if there was a R.I.P. easel in each lobby with a photo of the honored, set out all day of the day. It could be nicer if each house made a little ceremony in the lobby at the appointed time, a switch or something the house manager could come out and push off, then on. The moment of silence. It could mean something to the half-dozen early arrivals to the show, making them feel a part of the honor. Yeah, I know house lights aren't controlled by one switch, nor a button in the lobby …. I'm going with a prop, for an effect. "The Industry" is supposed to be collaborative … make it ALL houses dim …. no fractions. "

r373 OK....Leighton Meister, Saxon Sharbino, Chord Overstreet aren't stars. And, all these names (well, not Leighton Meister...another awful banal name) are actually distinctive. Interesting unique ethnic names are fine; boring prosaic ones are completely forgettable.

Oh, and....WHO THE FUCK is Saxon Sharbino???

[quote] Oh, and....WHO THE FUCK is Saxon Sharbino???

Didn't you hear? He's starring in a reading of a new pilot with Amy Carlson and Jonny Orsini at the Players Club.

I used to know Amy Carlson in my youth and she was super sweet and super cool. Not a good actress then but she obviously got some training because she’s a decent actress now.

[quote]Agreed. So unfortunate. Seems like, henceforth, this will now be an issue almost every time someone in the theater dies.

You know the most unfortunate part of the whole discussion? It marks any dimming of the lights for a performer "they" don't deem worthy as something they're doing against their will, that they were strong-armed into doing, not because they genuinely wanted to honor the individual who passed. And that, in my opinion, ultimately makes the whole gesture meaningless no matter how many theaters participate.

See what happens when the eldergays let up about Follies even a bit? We end up talking about nonentity Amy Carlson.

Amy Carlson IS Whoozis!

Why is no one talking about my presence on the cast list?!

That photo is so frighteningly huge you can see all the wrinkles on her face and the shmutz in her belly button.

[quote]Marin doesn't give off that fragility. She seems like a woman who could hold her own against Phylli

Technically, Marin doesn't give off ANY quality anymore.

[quote]Oh, and....WHO THE FUCK is Saxon Sharbino??? Didn't you hear? He's starring in a reading of a new pilot with Amy Carlson and Jonny Orsini

Saxon Sharbino would appear to be trans, then, and doing a very convincing job of it!

[quote]Interesting unique ethnic names are fine

"Schnetzer" sounds pretty ethnic to me.

Another weird name from the same ethnicity that didn't prevent stardom: Idina Menzel.

Just....

To answer the poster above, I worked with Jayne Houdyshell back around 2000. At that time she was a sweet and talented chubby 50-something actress who made a decent living playing character roles (and occasional leads) in grade B and C regional theaters. Despite her talent, she seemed like someone whose looks were simply too unconventional for any sort of mainstream career in NY.

So I was as surprised and pleased as can be that she was fortuitously cast in that Lisa Kron play WELL and was justifiably lauded by the critics and suddenly became the favorite of so many young hot playwrights and directors.

Nevertheless, she was totally miscast and misdirected, playing Hattie in that misbegotten revival of FOLLIES.

[quote] Saxon Sharbino would appear to be trans, then, and doing a very convincing job of it!

Makes sense since she starred in a TV show called Freakish

Stephen Schnetzer was a very hot young theater actor in NY right out of Juilliard before he got sucked into soap operas.

R412

I really like Jackie Burns -- but Eden Espinosa is budget Idina Menzel. Or she would be if Idina Menzel wasn't budget Idina.

Then where does Shoshana Bean fit in??

[quote]Nevertheless, she was totally miscast and misdirected, playing Hattie in that misbegotten revival of FOLLIES.

Yeah, she was really bad as Hattie. She played it like a Jewish yenta sitting in the beauty parlor talking about her daughter's wedding. Is Broadway Baby supposed to be Hattie's pastiche song? Because nobody would have sat through that number at the Follies.

And let's face it, there's no way on earth Houdyshell would have ever been a Wiseman Girl. He would have called her a meeskite and pushed her down the stairs face first.

As soon as I'm done singin' I'll serve the brisket. And I got some nice latkes, too.

Whose dumb idea was the filing the nails pantomime? That's just dumb.

Any scoop on Jason Butler Harner? He's very good in Bernhardt/Hamlet and also plays that creepy FBI guy on Ozark.

1. ALL the lights will be dimmed for Marin.

2. There's a serious effort to move Carmen Jones to Bway.

Jason is gay and had an affair with David Cromer. Nice guy.

Jason has done full frontal, too, but I can’t remember how big it is. David Cromer, though - that’s a beer can.

[quote]playing Hattie in that misbegotten revival of FOLLIES.

Which, however, was not nearly as misbegotten as the 2001 revival.

[quote]nobody would have sat through that number at the Follies.

Sure they would have. It wouldn’t have been sung by a old lady but a cute young woman. The young Ethel Shutta could have definitely scored with it in a Follies kind of show.

[quote]pushed her down the stairs face first.

Well, Jayne Houdyshell definitely looks like she was pushed down the stairs face first, so I guess she’s right for the part after all!

[quote]Sure they would have. It wouldn’t have been sung by a old lady but a cute young woman. The young Ethel Shutta could have definitely scored with it in a Follies kind of show.

I didn't mean it quite like that. I can definitely see a young Ethel Shutta doing the number. I can't see anyone being interested in a young Jayne Houdyshell doing the number.

423

Shoshana does not fit in. That is the issue. Musically she is the perfect interpreter for Stephen Schwartz's work. He should have considered writing something new for HER 15 years ago when he found that out. But no. He literally gave Lin Manuel Miranda all the songs in Working. He didn't even realize he should have written the whole thing around sho-bean.

Now it may be too late. He can't EGOT without a Tony...

I slept with a member of Jayne Houdyshell's extended family. Strong hands.

Did he look like he was pushed down the stairs face first?

Anyone else think the Cynthia Erivo Harriet Tubman backlash is kind of hilarious. The shoe is on the other foot now.

[quote]I can definitely see a young Ethel Shutta doing the number. I can't see anyone being interested in a young Jayne Houdyshell doing the number.

Weird comment. Who's to say what a 20-year-old version of Jayne Houdyshell would have looked like in the Follies, or what her "type" would have been at that age?

[quote]Anyone else think the Cynthia Erivo Harriet Tubman backlash is kind of hilarious. The shoe is on the other foot now.

I just read about this, and I'm with you. It is pretty hilarious, and I'm enjoying it immensely.

I hadn't heard about the Cynthia Erivo Harriet Tubman backlash. What's that about?

You couldn't drink Jayne Houdyshell pretty. Even at age 20.

I want conformation of Cromer's beer can.

Yeah, I've read that all over DL. Where're the receipts on that beer can?

Mmmmf Mawww waawww.

Google it r440

People are mad that a non-American actress has been cast in the role.

Jesus, I am constantly amazed at how narrow minded some of you are. Have any of you seen pictures of a Zeigfeld girls reunion? Are any of you familiar with Barbara Pepper? There was nothing wrong with Jayne Houdyshell, and quite a bit right. I

Looks like God struck R446 down mid-sentence for lying.

Barbara Pepper was an old friend of Lucys - she has supporting bits all through I LOVE LUCY.

Pepper was also Lucy's second choice for Ethel when Bea Benaderet couldn't get out of her contract with Burns and Allen. Desi and CBS wouldn't take a chance on her because of her drinking.

Miss Barbara Pepper.....

Miss Barbara Pepper....

Miss Ethel Shutta.....

Some fat people would still be ugly if they lost weight. Barbara Pepper is still cute in her fat photo.

Miss Barba Mama

452: 14-year old Betty Grable at 4:21

None here have any idea of Jayne at 18 .... so let R432 be the last word on "Broadway Baby" It is exactly how the song played in the original "Weismann's Follies". Years later Hattie did her song at the Follies reunion. No matter how scrawny, bulky, old-looking or well-preserved Hattie is now at the reunion, the song kills.

Pepper is charming hoofing with Holloway in My Fair Lady. I assume she was a friend of Warner, Pan or Cukor.

We need a headshot of Houdyshell at 20 and then we can decide if Florenzzzz would have hired her or not.

*screams*

In a nod to the "everyone-gets-a-trophy" crowd, the Broadway League has just announced that all marquees at all theaters will now be dimmed every night of the year. This will pay tribute to all of the actors and technicians and audience members who were on or visited Broadway at some point in their lives. When you see the lights dim every night, please stop to remember anyone who was associated with Broadway in any way.

Fanny in the Follies......

Marin should stop lying around, pull herself up by her bootstraps, and dim her own lights!

My apologies, r460. I really didn't mean for it to turn out this way.

A handsome young woman but Ziegfeld was into pretty for his chorus or beautiful for a showgirl.

Coward when he was pissed at Gertie would call her nose a blob. Interesting she never had it fixed.

So true, r464.......

Hattie wasn't a showgirl, r464.....

R467, is right there was a very strict categories of showgirl, chorus girl, ponies, etc. It was far more complicated than one would expect. However, to have a specialty number such as Broadway Baby, Hattie was neither in the chorus, nor was she a chorus girl. She was either a specialty or a comedienne.

R467]is right there *were* very strict categories of showgirl, chorus girl, ponies, etc.

Ugh, I wish there was a way to edit.

Cynthia Erivo IS Fanny Brice!

Miss Stanwyck aka Ruby was in a 3D number for the girls. There were 3D glasses in the playbills that the audience was to use for that number. It was supposed to somehow enhance the nudity. I'm not sure how it worked. I used to have a pair of the "glasses". The lenses were cellophane. One red, one blue.

This has been said before, but it seems that it bears repeating re the Cromer/Harnar pairing: rumor was (via a friend of Harnar's who is a friend of mine) that Cromer couldn't get it up.

I'm the only Hattie brilliant enough to get the creators to make the song a solo. And I was hot, too, if I do say so myself.

I just had the strangest premonition of Tovah Feldshuh playing Hattie in a production 10/15 years from now and showing her panties during the climax of the song.

Broadway babies......

For the numerous Mamie Gummer fans on this thread.....

Shame Mamma Meryl never did a production with Mamie playing Alexandra.

With or without Mamie, Meryl would have been a Regina for the ages.

Scroll down on this link and you'll see a young Jayne Houdyshell. Meeskite from Space.

Mamie is too young for Regina. Ugh. I saw Elizabeth Taylor do it on Broadway and I will never forget. I have never seen an audience so in awe and starstruck by an actor’s entrance. Her reception was rapturous. It was as if an impossibly beautiful and touchable movie goddess suddenly appeared to us mere mortals. Remember this was way before movie stars attempting but mostly failng miserably on a Broadway became de rigeur. Liz was the pinnacle. And her acting wasn’t half bad either. Maureen Stapleton was heartbreaking and stole the show though.

As long as it wasn’t Jean Stapleton.

Jean would have been one dingbat of a Birdie, r481!

What's noteworthy about young Jayne Houdyshell is her eyes, which are wide a lovely. If she had had a little preemptive work done while she was younger, and could have avoided the weight gain, she might look okay today.

Or not.

Maggie Smith had a triumph in both London and New York with Private Lives. A few years later, after Taylor's success in The Little Foxes, the Burtons revived the show for a limited run on Broadway and then a short tour. The text actually had to be abridged for Taylor to handle it and the reviews were not especially kind.

When the tour hit LA, Smith was in town shooting California Suite. She was asked whether she would see Taylor in show.

"I don't have the strength" she replied.

R484, The Taylor/Burton "Private Lives" was in 1983. "California Suite," (the movie) came out in 1978. Everything that Smith was doing in 1982-83-84 were projects in England.

Maybe it was just asked of Smith in a general way, if she wanted to see Taylor in Private Lives now that she was doing it, rather than specifically in relation to a performance in LA.

That Mamie Gummer "Little Foxes" is by LA Theatre Works. They do "audio theatre" performances, ie, the actors hold the script and stand in front of microphones. (I think one performance is usually broadcast on radio or podcast).

Re Mamie's age, at 35, she's the same age Bankhead was when she created the role, and three years older than Davis was when she filmed it. Per the script, Regina is 40ish.

Elizabeth Taylor was not very good in Foxes. She gave a star performance, but it wasn't Regina... though it was probably exactly what the audience wanted.

The Private Lives she did was as bad as could be expected. Private lives is a play about young people. The original cast was all around 30. When it is done by geriatrics, the play really does not work. (Yes, I am talking about you Joan Collins)

Jason Butler Harner should have showed his big long dick in that Rebeck mess at The American airlines. At least then his lousy performance would have been tolerable. He is a prime example of what serious muscasting does to a mediocre play. The best scenes in it aren't even written by Rebeck. That's just fucking lazy.

R475, who is the fat drag queen who comes in mid-number to sing a couple of lines?

I meant to add that not only did they have to abridge the text for Taylor, a lot of slapstick was added to make up for it.

r486, I guess I got the film wrong but the story of Smith's reply when asked whether she would see Taylor's Amanda was widely repeated at the time.

Smith's Amanda was probably the single most brilliant comedic performance I have ever seen. It was a masterclass. And it didn't cheat. Few people can play Coward the way it is intended. She had everything in spades.

^ Sorry, I meant r485 above, not r486.

Agreed, r490, re Smith's performance in PL. John Standing, too: forty years on, I can still hear his delivery of the line about women and gongs. That said, I've also heard a bootleg of the Taylor-Burton PRIVATE LIVES and Richard clocked more laughs with his inflections than anyone I've ever seen/heard in the role, including Coward.

Trivia: Coward began writing his operetta Bitter Sweet for Gertrude Lawrence. Midway through, he realized she would never be able to sing the part. It really does require someone with a trained voice, not someone who can carry a tune, no matter how stylishly. At any rate, he called Lawrence to apologize and told her he was going to write something just for her, something no one else would be able to do as well. The result was Private Lives.

I was quite taken by Helena in this....

R489 Christopher Biggins. Not actually a drag queen, just a very very camp actor. Played Nero in I Claudius and was one of the Transylvanians in the Rocky Horror Picture Show. A nasty little man, supports the Tories, thinks marriage should just be for straights (though still showed up for the party celebrating equal marriage in Britain), blames bisexuals for the spread of AIDS, anti Semitic, etc.

CHESS.....

Who the fuck is Barbara Pepper?????? Do you mean Barbara Sharma?

I saw Taylor in THE LITTLE FOXES which to this day is the only performance I have ever seen where the actor got a standing O the minute s/he came on stage. All the magic fell away the minute she opened her mouth, but Mo' Better Blues Stapleton was faboo.

One thing to be said for Taylor, she knew Stapleton was stealing the show from her but treated her like royalty both onstage and off with no signs of jealousy. Most movie stars wouldn't have reacted that way.

Oh for chrissakes, r497, see r446, r448, and r449....

Taylor was classy and a nice person -- and she knew talent when she saw it. Why do you think she married Burton?

And I can guarantee you NO ONE KNOWS WHO BARBARA PEPPER IS. Any relation to Sergeant Pepper?????

Or Dr. Pepper?

Or Peppa Pig (UK reference)

I certainly knew who Barbara Pepper was. But I'm an old I Love Lucy aficionado.

DId she have a twin called Salt? Can we talk about someone vaguely well known?? Like Michael J Pollard? Or Su Pollard?

Miss Pepper at the very, very end. I'm just posting this to find out if anybody knows where I can get strong stockings like this.

In high school I dated a girl named Page Potter. She had a sister named Pepper.

My friend Leslie Doctor had parents who were both doctors.

Pepper's an absolute doll!

That Chess clip at r496 is fascinating. I’ve never seen video footage of that set before. It’s kinda cool, but it must get monotonous and visually boring after a while.

Barbara Pepper was a hot item back when she was young. It was the alcohol (because of her husband's tragic early death) that aged her so terribly. Jayne Houdyshell was NOT a hot item when she was young. A nice character look. That's it.

Babs Pepper was also well known in the US as Doris Ziffle, the "mother" of Arnold the Pig on "Green Acres."

More of sexy young Barbara Pepper

Desi had already signed William Frawley as Fred and neither he nor the network were going to take a chance on a second drunkard as a lead.

Eva Gabor take Barbara Pepper to a beauty parlor

[quote]Babs Pepper was also well known in the US as Doris Ziffle, the "mother" of Arnold the Pig on "Green Acres."

She wasn't the ONLY Doris Ziffel.

Simon's dialogue in California Suite is shit. Hearing Smith deliver it is like listening to Glenn Gould play chopsticks.

Anyone who knows who is in the “Chess” clip?

^ Sorry, i posted that in the Batman thread.

Jayne Houdyshell is Kim Zolciak Biermann’s aunt. You can see the family resemblance.

What's missing in this discussion of Jayne Houdyshell as Hattie is proper criticism of her costume, hair and makeup design. Basically, it looked like she wore no makeup, a frowsy unstyled grey wig and a frumpy shapeless dress.

That's what I never got. Gregg Barnes is a wonderful costume designer who knows how to make actresses look spectacular. So this must have been a directorial choice. But why?? .Jayne as Hattie looked like the theater charwoman who bolted onstage uninvited.

R520, what do you think was the life trajectory of the average Follies performer? Some married well. Some went to Hollywood and worked regularly. But an awful lot ended up working in Macys or slinging hash. I lived across the hall from a former Follies performer. She lived on the top floor of a sixth floor walk-up. The apartment has not been touched since the 1950s. She has not bought clothing in decades. She cut her own hair. She wore no makeup (could not afford it). She was small and fragile. The exact opposite of Jayne H. However, as far as clothing and hair, it was spot on.

Jayne Houdyshell was truly brilliant in Well. She played Lisa Kron’s mother. Much of the play is presented by Lisa Kron directly talking to the audience. And it felt like Lisa Kron’s real-life mother just wandered onto the stage and kept inserting herself in the show. There was no trace of acting at all. Houdyshell deserved all the attention she got.

She was almost as brilliant in The New Century shortly afterwards.

She had the advantage back then of being truly unknown, so she would be lost in the part. She’s still brilliant, but she doesn’t disappear into the part anymore. I know her work too well. But I would still drop everything to see her.

Houdyshell has had a good run on the various Law & Orders. Apart from her long-running recurring role on SVU as the family court judge who eventually allowed Olivia to adopt Noah, she had a great turn on one show as half of an elderly childless couple who kidnapped a young girl from the school where Jane worked and kept her hidden in the basement. She was so sweet and sunny early in the episode, it was really a surprise during the reveal near the end.

[quote]That Mamie Gummer "Little Foxes" is by LA Theatre Works. They do "audio theatre" performances, ie, the actors hold the script and stand in front of microphones. (I think one performance is usually broadcast on radio or podcast).

Well, the poor thing is the very definition of "a face that was made for radio."

R522 I had a chance to see Jayne Houdyshell in Well and The New Century. I agree with you--she was this fully formed, mature character actress who was completely new to me. Excellent actress.

Recently, I saw her in a very dialogue heavy play called Relevance at the Lucille Lortel--possibly "The Tel" to some of you pros on here. My sense of a new discovery is gone, yes, but she still surprised me with her use of skill and utter commitment to a difficult play.

I have to correct myself at r523. The episode where she and hubby kidnap the young girl from school was on Blue Bloods.

[quote]What's missing in this discussion of Jayne Houdyshell as Hattie is proper criticism of her costume, hair and makeup design. Basically, it looked like she wore no makeup, a frowsy unstyled grey wig and a frumpy shapeless dress.

That was also one of my few criticisms of the London Follies. They made Di Botcher as Hattie look like a dyke clown.

In fact, most of the Follies costumes were not good. Janie Dee in that dancing bow dress and Imelda in a green dress saying, "I should have worn green." They must have spent all the money on the ghost costumes.

I finally saw Head Over Heals. It is a mess, but, the sad thing is, it could have been great. If it were done by someone like Charles Bush or the Ridiculous Theater Company, it would have been fantastic, but, as it is, the camp seemed too pandering and insincere. Also, the second act completely fell apart at the end and lost energy. What a shame; it really could have been great.

Jayne Houdyshell also recurs as an attorney on “The Good Fight.” They certainly have her in nice clothes it she’s just not believable. A judge, yes, an attorney, no.

"Be More Chill" is poised to be the "Rent" of the new young audience on Broadway.

I've only seen two productions of Private Lives, the '92 Joan Collins one at The Broadhurst, and the one from a few years back with Kim Cattrall. (I know, I've seen the two possible worst ones, and neither made me a fan of the play.)

I worked the Joan Collins production, so I was very familiar with the script. Reading the poster above who said they cut material for the Burtons, do you know what they cut, because when I went to see the Cattrall version, I swore they cut out an entire act, but it couldn't possibly be so. Joan's production I believe ran about 2:15 w/ intermission. Cattrall's felt endless. (I wound up leaving close to 10pm and they were in the middle of the 2nd act. Or what was supposed to be the 3rd act.)

Anyone know what is usually cut when there are cuts and if Cattrall's production had any?

"[T]he new young audience of Broadway" has been stalking and harassing members of the Be More Chill cast because they found out the cast members aren't actually living the fan-fic lives that social media made up for them.

Big fire in the West 40s. Theater district is flooded with smoke.

I guess Head Over Heels is still blowing smoke up its own ass.

[quote]Big fire in the West 40s. Theater district is flooded with smoke.

Either Nathan Lane is trying to light his farts again or somebody got really mad about the theater dimming policy.

The fire's at a parking garage at 44th and 8th.

I'll take Jayne's Hattie over Linda Lavin's any day of the week. It's funny, because their costumes were the same basic design (obviously more material for Jayne), but I remember Linda wearing heels and behaving way more like Carlotta than Hattie. Even her entrance made it seem like she was the big star of the show. And yes, somehow, she got "Broadway Baby" all to herself without the trio coming in at the end. I don't know what she did to make that happen, but I'm sure it was her doing. I can't imagine Sondheim was thrilled.

I guess she left to do The Lyons which was a much better role for her anyway. I think everyone else transferred to Broadway with the show besides the absolutely awful Regine as Solange. That's easily one of the worst performances I've ever seen on a professional stage in my life. She didn't know any of her lines or lyrics and would just stand there when she missed them. It was embarrassing. I thought she had to have dementia or something.

[quote]And yes, somehow, she got "Broadway Baby" all to herself without the trio coming in at the end. I don't know what she did to make that happen, but I'm sure it was her doing. I can't imagine Sondheim was thrilled.

She couldn't handle the trio version. She kept getting lost.

Any update on that fire?

Lavin kept getting lost in the trio and throwing everybody else off. Sondheim and quite a few others were indeed pissed.

She took The Lyons after she was informed she wouldn't be invited to re-sign for New York.

Angie's looking great and sounds sharp as ever at 92.

Which garage

Parking garage at 44th and 8th. The theater district was full of smoke when the shows let out. I'll update when I hear more but it probably won't be till in the morning.

Per Ted Chapin’s book, the “trio” at the end of those three songs was entirely Michael Bennett’s conceit. It’s not a great moment, and I don’t see why it isn’t dropped permanently.

R545, Sondheim loves doing those round sings and has included them in, I believe, every show. Love will see us through/You're gonna love tomorrow is another example. Bennett said his original concept was to have the singers perform the songs in silhouette so the effect would be like seeing a movie montage. However, it took them forever just to learn the ending and it took him a day to explain what he wanted so he gave up.

God, I hope the fire didn’t spread to Dyke’s Lumber Company. Or Shake Shack.

I'm watching an old Alfred Hitchcock Presents rerun with Polly Bergen as a nightclub singer with a past and a very bad news ex-husband she never actually divorced. The character is very Carlotta Campion and reminds me of one of the few good things in the Roundabout revival of you know what.

R548, I'm watching that, too.

Bergin shot the threatening husband and her story is they both reached for the gun!

For the record, I didn't bump into any chorus boys (not that I was interested).

BTW Marni Nixon's ghost was kinda sexy, though... Kelli something or other.

R549, did Bergen just get away with it? I must have missed something.

[quote]Sondheim loves doing those round sings and has included them in, I believe, every show. Love will see us through/You're gonna love tomorrow is another example.

Love Will See Us/You’re Gonna Love Tomorrow isn’t a round, it’s counterpoint. The awful “trio” section isn’t a round either. Round means they’re all singing the exact same thing, but everyone in the round starts singing at a different time, usually staggered by a measure (see “Frere Jacques”).

When was the first time they did the solo "Broadway Baby" ending without the cacophonous trio (which, indeed, does not really work)? I assume they did it that way at some point out of town or in previews on Broadway, but I am asking about the first time it was officially introduced and cemented in a production. The Cameron Mackintosh West End rewrite?

Bergen was terrible in Follies, as was Ann Miller - gays just like any old lady who sings I'm Still Here (which is why Burnett and Baranski are the only ones that people slag off)

Well technically, r555, the first time was on the original Broadway cast album. I saw it, besides the original (in LA) a couple of times including the terrific 1991 Long Beach production. I honestly can’t remember them doing it (the cacophony). They definitely didn’t do it in 2001; they let Betty Garrett have her moment (and did the weird thing where she kept “hearing” applause at the end long after we had stopped clapping.

I thought Bergen was just "meh". She didn't have the flair I expected from Carlotta. I think Tracie Bennett was the best I've seen. Yes, she did it ala Judy Garland, but you sort of saw how she could be a vamp. Carlotta talks about living with a 20 year old and maybe throwing him out and getting another lover. At least Bennett put that sex pot layer into her performance.

R548, I had started to doze off a bit but I think she did get away with the murder but ended up missing out on the money her ex left behind. When the detective who was investigating the case stopped by to talk with Polly, he said something to the effect that the guy she had shot had all this money and that his heirs were going to come into a fortune (or something like that). The last shot was a close-up on Polly's face as she realized what a colossal fuck-up she just made.

I would love to be a detective interviewing Polly Bergen.

Yvonne DeCarlo was the best Carlotta, obviously. I thought Polly Bergen was pretty good in it. Tracie Bennett was so hammy, I didn't really care for it but I understand why people liked it. Elaine Paige was totally wrong for it, and I don't understand why they didn't have Lavin do it. She would have been fantastic. She actually played Hattie as if she was Carlotta anyway. And Anne Miller played Carlotta as if she was Hattie, which is the part she should have played. I enjoyed Karen Morrow on the tape of the Long Beach production even though she was a bit miscast, but I always enjoy Karen.

just to take a tiny temporary break from Fucking Follies, is there ANY buzz from King Kong? It starts in 2 weeks, what do we know

R561, Linda Lavin as a former vamp? I don’t think so.

[quote]just to take a tiny temporary break from Fucking Follies, is there ANY buzz from King Kong? It starts in 2 weeks, what do we know

We know it won't be as good as Follies.

I guess I'm alone here, but I really like that "cacophonous trio" ending.

[quote]they let Betty Garrett have her moment (and did the weird thing where she kept “hearing” applause at the end long after we had stopped clapping

Betty Garrett playing Hattie playing Angela Lansbury playing Mama Rose sounds frightening, just frightening. But perhaps not as frightening as Betty Garrett singing I'm Still Here.

Why was Lavin having problems with the ending? If she's a singer, she should know how to sing her song. I bet she just messed up on purpose so they would cut the other two parts.

My thoughts exactly.

"the cacophonous trio (which, indeed, does not really work)"

Amen. The TEA PARTY in DEAR WORLD is much more accomplished, exciting and thoroughly delightful.

Doesn't "A Weekend In The Country" from ALNM have everyone singing a different part towards the end?

yes.

You're Gonna Love Tomorrow/Love Will See Us Through and A Weekend in the Country were clearly written to have portions in counterpoint. It appears Broadway Baby etc. was not.

The cacophonous trio would have been more effective if the same effect wasn't also used at the end of Live, Laugh, Love.

It's not the same thing at all.

Lavin would have probably been better suited to Carlotta or Stella if she were going to be in the show. I don't buy the trio being too hard to learn. It's not that hard at all. Lavin always changes the melody of everything anyway. Why would it have mattered? This is the same woman who added a "bah rum bum" to the finale of "Rose's Turn." She just wanted the song to herself to make it worth her while.

It is interesting that Carlotta was probably written to be more early 50's and she's always been played by much older women ever since. I don't get it.

The only one I really found nothing redeeming about was Baranski who did her usual sassy, dry drunk crap and massacred the finale. I've never heard it sung worse. I know Carol Burnett cracked a bit on some of the notes, but I'll take that over whatever the fuck Baranski did. I think she was trying to sing "here" correctly instead of modifying it into "hair". While I applaud her for trying to do it the right way, it did not sound good.

[quote]Lavin would have probably been better suited to Carlotta or Stella

Both of those roles need to dance in "Who's That Woman" so they're not right for LL because she's never demonstrated that she can actually dance as opposed to "moves well".

[quote]I know Carol Burnett cracked a bit on some of the notes

What I hated about Carol Burnett was that she sang it with her tired comedy shtick. She sings, "When you've been through Herbert and J. Edgar Hoo-woo-ver." She just couldn't help putting that extra little Carol Burnett-ism in there and we've heard it a zillion times already.

I'm Still Here is a VERY character specific song. Unless I can believe the woman singing it actually could have been another sloe-eyed vamp, I just don't buy it.

That's why Doris became a true blue tramp.

Diana Rigg got through Who's That Woman and she was no dancer. Mary McCarty and Susan Johnson didn't really dance. And Dolores Gray was a no show for the number. Hell, even Yvonne was known to sit on the lip of the stage and watch the number rather than dance it.

Both Andy Karl and Orfeh were out of Pretty Woman last night. Do they do EVERYTHING together?

Excellent interview with Bonnie Langford-she says Angela Lansbury has been “very, very kind” to her.

Carlotta is not even 50.. Try late 40s.

[quote]Hell, even Yvonne was known to sit on the lip of the stage and watch the number rather than dance it.

In the London version, Tracie Bennett loses her breath and has to move to the side during "Who's That Woman?" Was that originally written in because Yvonne couldn't do the whole number?

[quote]Carlotta is not even 50.. Try late 40s.

Phyllis, Sally and Carlotta are all late 40s. I don't know why they keep casting old women in the roles.

Has Bonnie Langford ever done Follies? Asking for a friend.

[quote]Has Bonnie Langford ever done Follies? Asking for a friend.

She'd be a great Sally to Angela Lansbury's Phyllis.

[R586] Her niece Zizi Strallen played Young Phyllis in the National Theatre staging

[quote]Hell, even Yvonne was known to sit on the lip of the stage and watch the number rather than dance it.

Where do you get that nonsense? She would’ve gotten a warning from the stage manager if she’d done something like that. I saw the original four times, once in NY and three times in LA. Yvonne never did that.

The last time I saw it in LA, Edward Winter and Janet Blair had taken over as Ben and Sally.

I think there's a terrible fear today of people in their late 40s considering that this is it. There's nothing better than acceptance of what is and resignation.

Making these people much older makes it more palatable. I think it's a big part of it.

It makes very little sense if the five principals are in their 50s or older.

Ton💡ght

Very sweet remembrance from Marin's hubby.

[quote]Phyllis, Sally and Carlotta are all late 40s.

[quote]It makes very little sense if the five principals are in their 50s or older.

Then they would have to have been 10 when they were in the Follies. Their sashes say 1941. Seriously, there may have been some 16 year-olds in the chorus, but early 50s makes more sense than late 40s, unless it is very late 40s. Really, is their that much difference between 48 and 52? The men need to be early to mid-50s.

Let's not forget that 40-something in the 70s is very different from 40-something today. While the show may be set in the 70s our perception, as an audience of what "middle-aged" or "over the hill" is has shifted. It's theatre. You can't always be so literal.

I wonder if Bonnie’s being considered for the National Theatre remounting next winter. Not really sure who she could play, though.

Yes, this is true. Today's 50 isn't the tragedy it was in the 70's. It's like Bobby turning 35 in Company. It was SUCH a big deal in the 70's, but it'd honestly make more sense for him to be turning 40 or 45 these days. Thanks to skin care, plastic surgery, and healthy living, most 50 year olds look like a well-preserved 35-40 year old from the 70s. If they're being period specific, it would almost make sense to cast people 10 years too old for the roles.

Bonnie Langford?- have you seen her lately?- She could never be referred to as "cute" by anyone.

[quote]it'd honestly make more sense for him to be turning 40 or 45 these days.

No it wouldn't. Bobby's problem isn't how his body or looks are aging, but the fact that he's reached 35 and has not been able to commit to someone romantically, that he's still the "extra" man hanging out with all his married friends. The mid-30s is still a time when most people start to assess their lives - 40 and middle age is just around the corner, and for women, their biological clocks have started ticking.

"still the extra man hanging out with all his married friends." And yet Sondheim insists the story had nothing to do with him.

[quote]there may have been some 16 year-olds in the chorus

Not 16, but Phyllis and Sally are played as around 19-20 when they were in the Follies, making them 49ish when the reunion happens. But the ages should vary. Phyllis and Sally are the only two from 1941. Carlotta has to still be sexy (not many beyond DeCarlo and Bergen have carried that off. Karen Morrow actually did, too, come to think of it). But she also has the lyric "In the Depression, was I depressed?" and the reference to standing in breadlines, which makes her seem like she would have been at least a teenager during the depression, and thus older than Phyllis and Sally, at least by a few years.