US Open - Thread V

So unfair! She had a baby!!!!! She can do whatever she wants.

Oh, never change, ESPN. Doing damage control for Serena now, instead of celebrating the new and well deserved champion. Assholes.

Serena didn't shake the ump's hand; instead she pointed her finger at him and yelled "You owe me an apology!"

I wish someone would call out Serena for her bad behavior. She does cheat. We all saw it.

Good one, OP!

It's what she deserves.

Pretty low of Patrick to call out Sascha and even Uncle Toni for coaching just because he got caught and called out for it. Low Class. French though.

The only thing more satisfying than Serena losing in the first round is Serena losing in the final. Thank you, baby Jesus!

Wow, this messiness completely took all the joy out of Osaka's win. Just look at her. She should be elated, but instead looks devastated. That sucks for her. She was so excited to play Serena, now probably feels like a villain.

She would have lost without that tantrum, but now she knows that there will be an asterisk next to Osaka's win (even though it shouldn't).

Ooofff!

Poor Osaka. Had all the attention taken off her. She looks miserable sat there.

Naomi played great and deserved to win. But to give out point penalties and then game penalties like that in a final is ridiculous.

I am now a HUGE fan of Osaka. She showed such composure today in her first GS final.

It sucks that Osaka can't even enjoy her moment

I feel so bad for her, she's still rattled by what happened.

Sexy dress, Katrina!

She's as bad as McEnroe. What the Fuck with her entitlement??!!

r7 lol he said that? So he admitted!

Not without my daughter!

I feel so bad for Osaka. What should be a very happy moment by her is marred by a booing stadium and a tainted win.

I have to say that Serena comforting Naomi during the booing was a very kind gesture.

Crowd are assholes.

Fuck this crowd!! Fuck Em all. Osaka won this, don't boo her.

At least Serena seems to get that and is trying to give her back her moment.

Yes he did, R7. He said everyone does it, including Sascha. He Serena noticed is another matter, he said.

By the way, is Sascha biracial?

"I don't want to be rude." -Serena

Too late.

Adams looks like an idiot in that evening dress

She is such a narcissist.

For R25: Sascha is born in Serbia, to Serbian parents, but they moved to Germany when he was a kid and he used to play for Germany himself.

How dare that woman say it wasn't the result we wanted in front of Osaka. Disgusting

Naomi will probably want to chuck this trophy in the trash every time she looks at it now b./c of the bitter feelings it evokes. I know i would. Very unfortunate.

I want her to crush the competition in the future!

Sashca is Eastern European. What's up with the race obsessives?

So much melodrama.

"I'm sorry it had to end like this." -Naomi

Sad.

Osaka was going to win anyway.

R30 seriously wtf was that. Osaka was right fucking there and shes basically like ' we wanted Serena to win.'

But I think she was probably taliking about the fighting with the judges and all that. Still, it came across as very rude.

We have a new queen. Thank goodness. Serena is now over. (I'm still fuming at that obnoxious commercial with Minaj crowning her that they showed during the match....that's something you show AFTER she wins.)

Regardless of the Serena histrionics, I hope that Naomi is proud of herself. She played like a champion.

That's what is sad, r38. She would have won anyway, without the Serena histrionics.

Being able to handle the situation and serve out the match in those circumstances, never having played in a slam final before, tells me that the girl's gonna be fine.

I turned it off after the game penalty. Disappointing to hear how the crowd got involved. Tacky and tasteless.

Have they clarified why she got the game penalty? What exactly did she say?

Naomi will feel better in a few hours. Then she'll be the silly, smiley 20 year old again.

It was sweet how her mom started crying right before they hugged. She held it together until Naomi got to her.

Such stupid-ass questions to Naomi.

From the Guardian live blog R41:

Serena to chair umpire: “You will never, ever, ever be on another court of mine as long as you live. You are the liar. When are you going to give me my apology? You owe me an apology. Say it. Say you’re sorry. ... And you stole a point from me. You’re a thief, too!”

That comment promoted a code violation for verbal abuse, which is a game penalty. Oh boy. This is about to get ugly.

They haven't mentioned the baby in a while.

Roger and Rafa have both told umpires they will never officiate another match of their's. Neither ever received a point penalty for such things.

What baby?

Serena has no answers for Osaka and it was fun seeing her so out of sorts. Serena was pressing from the start of the match, that's why she couldn't contain her roid rage.

I think the fact that she kept saying she didn't cheat (when obviously she does) didn't help her situation, but then she started demanding an apology, etc.

I'm glad she's looking a bit more happier and relaxed

Good Osaka won. Now Djokovic has to lose. Then it'll be perfect.

Serena always goes on a losing streak as she tries to break a record. And then she breaks the record. 24 GS titles coming soon.

[quote] Roger and Rafa have both told umpires they will never officiate another match of their's. Neither ever received a point penalty for such things.

If it was the first warning, they probably wouldn't have. (I think.)

So, do we think Osaka will be the real deal and win more Slams? Or will she be like the other WTA mental midgets and disappear for a while? Her history is she is streaky. I'd like to see her get more consistent and be in the hunt for all tournaments, not just show up mentally every now and then like the rest of the WTA.

So all the drama started because Serena's coach did the hand gestures and was caught? What a moron. He should know better.

Or was she getting pissy before that? I didn't see the game.

This ending may be good for Osaka compared to all the new GS champs in recent years that suffer from big let downs after. Her not getting to really enjoy it may keep her hungrier and focused - or maybe I’m stupid for thinking it. Just saying.

Jesus, Osaka looks like she just won the cancer sweepstakes.

Serena has had an incredible career but her behavior today was disgraceful. I am aware the US Open Final is a highly taut affair but at some point, you have got to get your shit together. Instead she was having a fucking breakdown and coming across as an entitled asshole. Her words at the ceremony meant fuck all when it was clear Osaka's greatest moment had been marred. Nothing is ever going to fix that.

And going on and on about not cheating...only for her coach to say he coaches all the time and all coaches do it. I guess it must be news to Serena. I understand she may feel hard done by the fact she was cited for it when everyone else does it. But then point that out instead of the whole I'm so holy I never cheat posturing.

Her game is best suited for hard courts and I think she may do well in AO.

For R46.

r55 neither did I, but I saw her being incredulous she got penalized for threatening to slam a ball down someone's fucking throat.

If anyone should apologize, it's her for disrespecting her opponent.

R44 So I was right (in a previous thread) about Asderaki being blacklisted from her matches. How is that allowed? Totally cheating. You can't get an umpire removed from your matches because they actually hold you accountable for your actions. Good god.

I could barely bring myself to congratulate the champion.

DL is full of bitches. Come next year, it'll be Name who? We all know that these pretenders come and go...Pliskova, Ostapenko, Oudin, that one Canadian girl that everybody here likes. The only reason we watch the WTA is because of Serena-the good and the bad-admit it. Expect her to win the AO.

R55 She was losing, so you do the math.

Osaka is the real deal. Easy power with a great serve. Much more potential than Ostapenko/Keys/other ballbashers (too erratic) and can generate so much power unlike all the tour's counterpunchers.

Hopefully injuries don't limit her .

[quote] They haven't mentioned the baby in a while.

Please explain that.

Yea, right, Serena's over.

R59, thx hun

[quote] Ostapenko/Keys/other ballbashers (too erratic)

Put any of those names (including Halep and such) in the situation Osaka was when serving for the title and tell me how many of them would pull it off? The answer should be rfairly easy...

Sorry, R63, not true here. Serena is very overweight and can't move. She still her power shots but she ran up against someone who figured out her big problem.

The coaching call was total BS but Serena should have just moved on. She dug her hole and kept digging.

Chris Evert's real emotions after this have to be relief Serena didn't win - they are tied (in the Open era) with six singles titles. Molla Mallory(!) holds the record with 8 with her 1926 victory.

DL has always hated Serena. Venus less so. But today was blissful catnip for her haters. Uh la la

Well, I never...

As soon as the ref took A GAME away from Serena, this match was going to be marred forever. There will be an asterisk by it when people remember it. That was the ref’s call. He bears the responsibility.

Serena played flat footed and unsure of herself. And that’s what happened before she tied the record for 18 grand slams. It’s what happened as she tried to match Steffi Graf’s 22 grand slams. It’s what happened when she tried to win the calendar year Grand Slam. And now it’s happening as she tries to hit 24. We’ve seen this movie before. And we know how it ends.

Serena is almost 40 years old and still shows no signs of self-control.

R73 I've always been a Serena fan but her behaviour today was inexcusable.

Plus Osaka outplayed her.

It sucks the way it ended. Not am expert on the rules but it felt like Serena was always being held on a higher standard? To give points/game on a GS final? Has that happened before? Had a feeling Naomi will win this - these young , fearless upstarts normally does . The jury is still out if she's the really deal or just a one/two hit wonder. Let talk again if she's gunning for her 5th/6th GS title.

Watching Naomi out-Serena Serena on the court was like watching Tracy Austin out-Chrissie Chrissie.

R75 but she wasn't 40-50 pounds overweight like she is now. The girl can't move.

R63 and R75 = delusional Serena apologists

Osaka was kicking Serena’s ass and Serena’s meltdown in the second set was intended to taint this match. Fuck Serena Williams.

Chrissie needs to write another one of her famous "open letters" to Serena. Maybe it could be called "From a Mother to a Mother..."

Anyone else notice how Chase changed their commercial from Mama Knock You Out to Big in Japan after the Serena meltdown?

R81, I’m not apologizing for Serena. Just stating facts. Please point out where something I stated was incorrect. I’ll wait, LOL.

For me, the issue is that the woman who's been there, done all that, and KNOWS MUCH BETTER, behaves like a bratty girl in a junior draw.

Yes, R75, and next to the asterisk: "No matter how big a waddly tantrum Serena threw, she clearly would have lost anyway."

There are Twitter videos of Serena throwing f bombs at Carlos Ramos during changeover. He was well within his right to give her a game penalty. It doesn’t matter if it’s Kyrgios, Fognini or Paire. If you escalate the argument with the umpire then you must deal with the consequences.

Naomi probably feels like shit now, but 3.8 million might help make her feel better

I'm also seeing comments on twitter by sports journos that the game penalty was too harsh but really, should she be able to call him a thief and a liar and suffer no consequences? Fuck that, that he should have to sit there, literally, and be called that.

Reporter's question in press conference: Serena, how did your being a mother help you to comfort Naomi today?

R87, I already said she didn’t play well. She does that every time she’s on the brink of breaking a record. And I have no doubt she cursed the ref out. The ref made the call.

I’m just stating facts. And based on those facts, Serena will likely get to 24 GS titles and will probably win more. Those claiming she’s done forever are ignoring history.

So, what's the verdict? Did she get coaching? If she did, and the ref did his job, what's the problem?

I don't give a fuck if every male player ever who was faulted told the ref to bend over and take a pounding. It's irrelevant to the match being played. If it's an injustice, correct it off the court.

I'm tired of people defending cheating and ignorant behaviour. Not only that, but ignorant behaviour you KNOW has a rulebook consequence.

What's up with "Chrissie Evert"? What happened to Chris Evert Lloyd?

Naomi won by keeping her cool and playing her game. Serena doesn’t know that her coach was caught on camera coaching. She thinks Ramos was lying...she’ll see the video when she gets in the locker room. Coaching from the stands happens on both tours...can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen Uncle Toni coaching Rafa from the stands. Unfortunately, Patrick got caught by Ramos.

She's about to go supernova in Japan. $3.8m will look like small change in a few months. She might want to look into working on learning Japanese.

She dumped Lloyd, married Mill, dumped Mill, married Norman, dumped Norman, so she's back to Chrissie Evert now.

Possibly, R92, if Serena ever gets back from Oracene to Serena.

I get that Osaka plays for Japan but all this garbage about “going back to her country a hero” stuff is ludicrous. And, oh, the bowing!

Hey, r98, how many women have made their way to two GS finals within a year and a week of giving birth? Does it happen all the time? It must based on the way you’re complaining about Serena’s size. Give me a list of names. I’ll wait.

OK, maybe you get caught up in a moment, think that you got an unfair warning but, c'mon, this is not her first time at the rodeo. Someone with Serena's experience should brush it off and she's familiar with the rules: you keep getting into altercations with the ump, linespeople, etc, there will be a penalty point, then a penalty game, then disqualification. I really don't get why she would put herself through that and it's far from it being her first time doing that kind of stuff.

Her parents are Japanese right? Maybe they taught her the bowing stuff. Surprised they didn't teach her the language.

R96, That’s my only gripe with Naomi is that she plays for Japan and can’t speak Japanese. You have to deal with Japanese press and you can’t even communicate with them. She needs to get teacher ASAP and learn the language. If Serena can speak French fluently, then Naomi can start learning Japanese.

I read an article about Osaka and based on some of her comments it seems like she identifies more with being American or Haitian than Japanese. I could be wrong, though.

Japanese is super hard though. And considering only one parent is Japanese and that she has spent almost all her life in the US, picking up the language would be difficult. I assume she's an American citizen too (does Japan allow dual citizenship?) but I think it was suggested in the past that she stuck to Japan because of the $$$ possibilities. Nishikori, after all, with no grand slams earns more in endorsements than Federer.

R100, I'm not diminishing her accomplishments. I'm simply stating the apparent: As long as her movement is hindered by the excessive weight, her chances of winning #24 are reduced commensurately.

She's half-Haitian but I guess she never thought of representing Haiti

Naomi showed how to stay calm cool and win no matter what happens around you.

R102 Osaka's mother is Japanese and her father is Haitian. She's spent most of her life in the US.

Chrissie out-awkwards Naomi.

R103 Serena's French is NOT fluent. She makes a load of mistakes and speaks with a very American accent.

I'd have expected it to better since she used to have daily French lessons as well as having a French coach/ex-boyfriend and the Paris apartment but she can barely string a sentence together.

Osaka is a slightly different story. She's only half-Japanese but I'm sure I read she grew up in Japan until they moved to NYC. I'd expect her to speak better Japanese than she does unless she never spoke Japanese at home. Considering high school children can pick up enough Japanese to carry on a basic conversation she can't have tried very hard.

R107, Is there even a Haitian tennis federation to sponsor her? Or deal with the needs of a professional tennis player...I highly doubt it...that’s why she’s playing for Japan.

The idea that she's never cheated is ridiculous. Have we already forgotten the WADA leak and all the Therapeutic Use Exemptions (TUEs) she had? Look at this picture of her forearm from today (below left). There's no way she's clean.

I'm not a Serena fan, but I'm not a troll either. The penalty for coaching is a close call. The umpire was fair to call it, but it is true that there are tons of instances where coaching goes un-penalized. It's similar to the 25 second serve rule prior to the clock. Sometimes Nadal and Djokovic got called on it, sometimes they didn't. Sometimes umpires give "soft" warnings, e.g. an unofficial side comment to the player telling them to watch it. I wish they were more consistent with the warning.

The abuse of racket stuff is almost always called.

The verbal abuse of umpire...seems extreme if all she did was call him a thief and demand an apology. But more understandable if she was cursing him out.

Regardless of all that, it comes down to her behavior. Why couldn't she just let go of the coaching call? If she was playing well, would she have cared? The racket bust was understandable when she served two doubles to drop serve. But to latch onto the coaching call was odd. Either (1) she was edgy because she was playing like shit; (2) she was trying to throw off Osaka; or (3) a little bit of both. I'm inclined to believe the third option.

Bottom line, she is responsible for her own behavior. When she started ranting after the game penalty, her comments were all about why this was happening to her, making her the victim. Until she understands that the umpires actions were the result of her and her coach's behavior, she's never going to learn.

And I'm angry at her for making another big US Open match about something other than tennis.

So, r106, are you claiming those women made their way to 2 Grand Slam finals within 53 week sorry giving birth? Because that’s the question I asked. She’s attempting to do something faster than it has been done before. And she’s doing pretty well at it. Making fat jokes ignores the circumstances and does diminish her accomplishments.

Naomi is great and Serena went down. I know she blames the ref but it was just Naomi being great.

They said Naomi is Japanese but she sounds like an American.

R111, If, she can do an tv interview in French, then French can’t be that bad...

R85 Wait no more! Blaming the ref for doing his job correctly is delusional. This was Serena through and through.

r116 but that's not what people will remember, and Serena owes Osaka a public and private apology for that.

This is also on the WTA and other tennis governing bodies who have allowed her to too much leeway in drug testing and officiating over the years. Now, she behaves like this in a Grand Slam final, and if she can't lose gracefully, it's going to be an ugly end to her career.

Here’s what tennis players are saying about the controversy.

It’s clear in this video she throws the f bomb at Ramos.

R101 It's called narcissism

From the last thread:

[quote]And the female commentator is saying Serena might not have known...fucking BS...she has been playing for decades, she knows the fucking rules!!!

Not sure if that was Fernandez or Evert, but c'mon. Does Serena not remember the warning-point-game progression from the '09 US semifinals? The game penalty gave Clijsters the match.

Serena also seems to fail to realize that "every time this happens" (2009 US semis, 2011 US Finals, 2018 US Finals) she's been losing the match when it happens. Coincidence?

R107 Who would? No money there.

Serena wasn't even looking at his hand jesters. She might have a right to be mad but Naomi was playing great so I hope Serena can be man enough to accept that.

R85 / R100 You love to wait around it seems. I'll wait. I'll wait. I'll wait. LOL. LOL. Obnoxious.

R121, I didn't read the link, but I'd expect the players to express support. They're usually pretty spineless in these situations. Even when Sharapova got dinged for drugs, there were only a few that had harsh words (Cibulkova and Bouchard come to mind).

The problem is as we've seen over and over again is code violations are at the chair umpire's discretion. We've seen some umpires be VERY lax on code violations while others strict. As we saw today, some chair umpires apply the rules differently to each player.

Almost every coach makes hand gestures. There are some who blatantly coach their players from the stands. Sometimes they're just making gestures as a sign of reassurance and other times the player isn't even looking when this happens.

Ramos fucked up that call. He should have called Sascha on it too but didn't. Serena should have let it go but the pressure of the match, the quality of her opponent and the compilation of things that have happened to her in the past at the USO didn't allow her to think clearly.

It is very true that a lot of the men say a lot of worse things to the umpires and linespeople and there is often little punishment. Ramos umpires mostly men's matches and knows this. I've seen players curse him out before.

I'm glad Serena was gracious towards Naomi. Naomi handled the moment very well but as she told espn, that was because she didn't really know what was going on.

Absolutely correct assessment, r129.

Honestly I think Serena should be annoyed with Patrick who is a camera and attentionwhore. That said, Ramos was wrong to call a code violation on Patrick but not Sascha. Either both or none since Sascha even coached Naomi to smile so she would loosen up when the second set got tight.

An example of lax code violations-several men at this USO including Nadal and DJokovic received a warning for letting the service clock run out. After that time, Nadal and Djokovic in particular had several other times when they started serving as the clock was running out but never got a point penalty. Even the commentators were calling that. It was clear the umpires didn't want to create drama with a top men's player. I don't remember if Ramos was 1 of those umpires but still. If you're going to be strict on the rules, be strict about everything with everyone.

I have seen men penalized for obscenities, though. Fognini comes to mind: at Wimbledon last year, he incurred a game penalty vs Murray. I don't know who the umpire was, but to suggest this never happens in ATP matches is false.

R115, if anything diminishes from Serena's accomplishments, it's her behavior today as well as in other infamous situations. It could be considered even more of an accomplishment that she managed to make the finals despite the weight, regardless of whether we find humor in it.

Margaret Court, much as I despise her, gave birth in March '72, reached the semis of the '72 US Open and won the '73 AO, the '73 FO and the '73 USO. Evonne Goolagong gave birth in May '77, won the AO seven months later, and reached the semis of '78 Wimbledon. Clijsters gave birth to her daughter in 2008 and won the 2009 USO in just her third tournament back on the tour and went on to win two more Slams the following year.

it's not that it never happens in the mens' game but there have been plenty of times when I thought an ATP player would get in serious trouble but didn't.

Stop being apologists. Move on. Take up bowling, for instance. Or become commentators at ESPN, you've already passed their pre-screening.

[quote]An example of lax code violations-several men at this USO including Nadal and DJokovic received a warning for letting the service clock run out. After that time, Nadal and Djokovic in particular had several other times when they started serving as the clock was running out but never got a point penalty.

I believe the penalty for letting the serve clock run outIs losing your first serve, not the point. I have seen that happen at this year's event.

R133, Fognini was thrown out of the US Open last year for calling the female umpire a whore in Italian. He was fined and faced suspension from grand slams.

I still think Patrick's head nod immediately at the end of his hand signals confirms that he considered his message was received loud and clear.

r75, no Serena does. She continued and continued and needs to be held responsible for her own actions.

SOme of you sound like trump supporters making excuses and blaming everyone else.

R138 that happened after the match concluded which he lost anyway. He wasn't penalized during the match because what he said ("she's a dirty whore," "cocksucker") was in Italian.

Wait.....what about ME?!

Yes Fognini had the US Open incident, but also was penalized at Wimbledon vs. Murray. Just looked, it was a point penalty.

I wanna hear from a neutral casual tennis fan what they think . The haters always gonna hate . Serena stans of course would naturally be her apologists. I'm a Serena fan so...;)

Serena is not just at her best today - Naomi was just better. Very unfortunate about the coaching violation. Read on twitter... - wait...what..at coach can't coach? lol.

R141, Yes, but Fognini was scheduled to play doubles after he lost that singles match and was then thrown out of the open.

LOL, r140, Serena was punished by taking a game away from her. If you’re expecting some huge public outcry beyond that, you’re going to be sorely disappointed. The ref continually penalized her (coaching, broken racket, verbal abuse) and she continually got angrier and angrier about it.

She lost the match. Today she wasn’t her best at all. Yet, she will still be lauded and celebrated and the most accomplished women in sports history.

r78 please everyone stop making excuses for bad behavior.

Code Violation:

1st: warning - coaching , 2. point penalty - racket abuse, 3. game penalty - verbal abuse. 4 Default of match- anything else you do that breaks the Code.

She should not be exempt from the rules. I've seen plenty of people getting code violations warnings, and points taken. Once in a while an entire default of Match.

Just like foot faults if Serena does it in a final we shouldn't penalize. That is bullshit. She disgraced herself

R144, I feel like I can be pretty neutral. Shared my thoughts at R114.

Im not a fan of Serena, but I didn't like what transpired today. She behaved poorly. The ref's calls were by the book, but typically I'd expect a little more leniency, especially in a Slam Final. Not that he should ignore the behavior, but definitely could have given her a "soft" warning, e.g. "Serena, calm down and stop ranting, or a game penalty will be coming your way." That would hopefully have checked her behavior while keeping the focus of the match on the tennis instead of behavior and penalty calls.

The umpire was strictly by the book, which is within his rights, but I believe it could have been handled better to let the match play out.

r126, she saw it and said he was giving a jumps up, she said to Ramos that making that gesture was giving the thumbs up. But then they showed it was clarly more.

Nadal said to Ramos' face last year that he would never be his umpire again during a match. That seems pretty inappropriate to me. Is that worse than being called a thief?

The ATP also accepted Nadal's demand that Ramos never umpire him again after time violation drama.

I'm just so happy everyone saw Serena's true color today. Trashy and entitled pos.

not jumps but thumbs.

No R148, that is not how it works. Soft cautions come before warnings. They don't come after a point penalty there are rules to follow.

The coaching was the warning. She suffered nothing from it but embarrassment I guess. That is why you get that one warning. If she started ranting about something before he gave the warning he could give a soft caution. He put up with a lot of her verbal abuse between the change overs. You have to follow through or you get walked on. Oh here is a warning to stop doing what you are already doing. That doesn't work. She has played over 2 decades so there is no excuse for it.

Bit of a Freudian slip there, R151.

[quote]Serena also seems to fail to realize that "every time this happens" (2009 US semis, 2011 US Finals, 2018 US Finals) she's been losing the match when it happens. Coincidence?

I'm a big fan of Serena's and I really want her to break Margaret Court's record, but I have to admit that today's match was tough to stomach. On some subconscious level, Serena seems to have this unhealthy need to be the center of attention, whether she wins or loses.

r150, well that is bullshit from Nadal AND NOW their is a big clock on the court, motherfucker glad you lost to delpo

OK, so let's now put ourselves in Ramos' chair for a change. Serena had this happen to her TWICE on that same court, in the SF in 2009 against Clisjters and in the 2011 final against Stosur. I would be a bit apprehensive calling that match on that court, if I was an umpire. You don't want her to go mental at you, at a line judge or someone else but you also want to have full control over how the match is run. What do you do? Let her walk all over you or try to assert some authority? The problem is that, with Serena, it almost never stops at a single warning. So, OK, we've established the rules of the game, made sure she's aware of them (the first warning carried no penalty pointwise) but, if she keeps ranting in between points and during changeovers, what are you supposed to do? Wait for her to escalate verbal abuse?

[quote]Does Serena not remember the warning-point-game progression from the '09 US semifinals? The game penalty gave Clijsters the match.

R124, your point still stands, and I agree with you, but in that US Open semifinal, Serena was given a [italic]point[/italic] penalty on match point for Clijsters, thus giving Clijster the game, the set, and the match.

Last year Kyrgios got a code violation from Ramos because he thought he was abusing the ballkid when asking for a towel. Kyrgios disagreed and just said he asked for it loudly because the crowd was loud. Later, Kyrgios said "that's fucking bullshit" to Ramos which should constitute as umpire abuse but no point penalty was awarded

Ramos had every right to make the call. He’s the ref. It also marred the match. That was his decision. Serena lost a game and lost the match. Perhaps, he warned her about the game penalty. Who knows?

He won’t ref another game for Serena. Or Nadal apparently.

Djokovic once pushed umpire Carlos Bernardes' arm and nothing was done about it as they disputed a call. Laying a hand on someone is 1 of the worst offenses

[quote]The ref's calls were by the book, but typically I'd expect a little more leniency, especially in a Slam Final.

I know many will disagree with me, but I don't buy the above. The rules have to be enforced uniformly; otherwise you run into all sorts of problems. So if a player foot faults by a half inch on match point in a GS final, he should be called on it, just as if it were the first point of a qualifying match. Just my opinion.

Just because other umpires have been spineless doesn't subject Ramos to the same low standards. This is not lowest common denominator umpiring.

R160 Stop trying to find excuses for Serena. Just because Player x got away with it in another match doesn't mean what she did was right. She got penalized because she broke the rules.

But the rules aren’t enforced uniformly so players have a right to complain when the standards seem arbitrary. Ramos will be criticized today for not handling it differently. That comes with the job. It was totally his decision.

R158, if Kyrgios had excoriated Ramos and personally attacked him with epithets, the result may have differed. And R150, Williams also threatened Ramos that he'd never officiate at one of her matches again--this was before she called him a liar and a thief.

[quote]No [R148], that is not how it works. Soft cautions come before warnings. They don't come after a point penalty there are rules to follow... The coaching was the warning. She suffered nothing from it but embarrassment I guess. That is why you get that one warning. If she started ranting about something before he gave the warning he could give a soft caution. He put up with a lot of her verbal abuse between the change overs. You have to follow through or you get walked on. Oh here is a warning to stop doing what you are already doing. That doesn't work. She has played over 2 decades so there is no excuse for it.

There's no rule that Ramos can't give a soft warning at any time. He could have basically said "shut up or you're getting a game penalty". (Perhaps he did, I don't know.) I'm not saying he was wrong to handle it the way he did. I'm saying he had options to try to prevent it from escalating to a game penalty.

[quote]But the rules aren’t enforced uniformly so players have a right to complain when the standards seem arbitrary.

And therein lies the problem.

Also, there's a bit of difference whether you're playing the QF of a tournament in, I don't know, Estoril or a Slam final. Expect more scrutiny of your behavior in the latter.

[quote]I know many will disagree with me, but I don't buy the above. The rules have to be enforced uniformly; otherwise you run into all sorts of problems. So if a player foot faults by a half inch on match point in a GS final, he should be called on it, just as if it were the first point of a qualifying match. Just my opinion.

You can umpire and line call uniformally when it comes to foot faults. But not when it comes to verbal abuse, audible obscenity, etc. (There are plenty of instances where players curse in a language that Ump 1 understands, but Ump 2 does not.) There are certain instances where uniformity just isn't possible across all chair umps, and verbal abuse is one of those, different chairs will have different levels of tolerance.

The only umpire one happy right now is Mo Layhani...coaching Kyrgios last week is yesterday’s news. Ramos is trending on Twitter...

I'd love to see Djokovic, Kyrgios, A. Zverev, Fognini, Donaldson and their ilk get defaulted regularly for their rants and tantrums.

R165 wrong. Players are not supposed to use profane language period. The fact that Kyrgios said "that's fucking bullshit to Ramos' face and not just muttering to himself should have resulted in a point penalty if he wants to be a stickler for rules.

Can we add Paire to that list, R171? His tantrum from a few weeks ago...

What are you talking about, R172? I didn't make a statement of fact. I speculated that the result may have been different for Kyrgios if he'd begun personally attacking Ramos along the same lines as Williams did. I didn't state that Ramos applied the necessary standards regarding obscene language. Conjecture is neither right nor wrong.

Serena could have easily used her anger at Ramos to fuel a comeback. Instead, she let it get to her, she escalated it, and made it worse. She really has no one else to blame but herself.

Can we add Federer to that list, too?

[quote]There are certain instances where uniformity just isn't possible across all chair umps, and verbal abuse is one of those, different chairs will have different levels of tolerance.

I think we could have much greater uniformity with better training of umps as to what constitutes verbal abuse. I'm totally ignorant about this, but is there any kind of official review of chair umps, similar to what they have in MLB, so that if an ump is too lax or too rigid he gets reprimanded and even demoted to a lower level?

Anytime you see players arguing with umpires multiple times during changeovers more often then not they’ve completely checked out the match. They end up losing the match...

While point penalties are not uncommon, I'm trying to remember other game penalties. Anyone?

I think the reality is that once a player gets a point penalty, they realize how close they are to game penalties and a default, so they check their behavior. (Conjecture, certainly.) But certainly it's happened before.

Probably the most infamous is at R142.

Has Serena's BABY tweeted anything yet?

While I hated that this happened, I'm still chuckling that Serena brought up the fact that she was a mother in one of her rants to the umpire.

Some players like Ryan Harrison, Andy Murray and Djokovic swear constantly throughout tough matches and get into it with umpires. They rarely get more than a warning. Often no warning at all even if the umpire hears it

Conversely I've seen other players get a warning for simply saying "fuck!" after losing a point

There needs to be more uniformity between all umpires

Well at least we can thank Serena for making it memorable. I thought the '09 semi-final against Clijsters would be the most infamous match in recent memory, but this tops it.

How different would today have been if Serena was leading 5-2 when the coaching warning came?

Serena to Coco: I'm the baddest bitch in the USTA and the WTA!!!!!!

Think again, bitches at r185! When was the last time either of you won a multimillion-dollar lawsuit against the USTA?

Who's gonna be the GOAT forever and ever now, bitches? Moi!

U.S. media already circling the wagons around Serena to protect her reputation (and commercial appeal).

R188, Of course. Why wouldn't they? Other countries would protect their superstars.

R189 okay except Kyrgios. The Australian media hates him like no other.

R190, don't the Aussie media also hate Tomic? But how were they with respect to Lleyton Hewitt?

Is Hewitt ever going to retire?

Maybe the dingo ate it, R45.

Can’t believe this incident is even up for debate - and more annoying that all the non-tennis fans are gonna weigh in over the next few days and on social media.

It’s CLEAR - Serena received a fair warning and within the rules. Any other top player would have bit their tongue and moved on. But Serena has an EGO like no other and couldn’t let it go. She demanded apology after apology and her anger escalated. She deserved the penalties she got and that’s the end of the story. People making excuses for her are just playing into her “victim” storyline that she was spouting from the court with her ‘woman card’ etc and it’s ridiculous. There is no accident that she has been involved in numerous of these situations - more than any other top player. And her ego is SO BIG that she totally took the spotlight from Naomi - conscious or unconscious. She may be the best ever, but she really is a piece of shit and this confirms it.

[quote]Can’t believe this incident is even up for debate - and more annoying that all the non-tennis fans are gonna weigh in over the next few days and on social media.

Heck, even some tennis experts ("experts") are suggesting that Ramos had no right to make one or two of those calls. (The abuse of umpire seems to be most in question, followed by the coaching call.) Wertheim was on Twitter suggesting Ramos was totally in the wrong. Unbelievable.

When you're in business of being the official Serena cheerleading squad, you don't have many choices - gotta toe the party line...

Is Wertheim working on a bio of Serena?

It's a tennis match. No lives were lost. Somebody remind Serena of that.

And we are here, hours later, talking about the loser, instead of discussing a major title for a very exciting new player with a bright future instead of her. Congrats, Serena, you made this ALL ABOUT YOURSELF.

Good point, r199. So do people feel that Osaka is just a one-time or two-time GS winner, or will she win a handful? I think the latter because I was very impressed with the way she handled her nerves today. In addition, I think Osaka still has a lot more upside (e.g., if she added a transition to the net and better volleying to her arsenal of weapons).

Osaka's great first serve makes her very unique. So many players just spin it in nowadays to get the point rolling and slug away (or push) from the baseline. Her and Sabalenka could dominate the tour soon.

Agreed re the upside--I was rooting for Osaka right from the first round. I bet she gets 2 or 3 more before 2021.

Osaka still has some room for improvement, particularly her second serve (her first serve is really good.) Net transition, as you pointed out, would be an asset but very few younger female players are very good at that. Playing doubles every once in a while would help her build some confidence in that area. Mentally, she proved herself in the best possible way so far.

They should just get rid of the coaching rule. Who cares? Coaches gonna coach. Plus Serena should have know to come forward more, if she did her homework she should know that Osaka isn't good at the net or coming forward. Either way, she should have just let it go. She fucked herself and the whole final. She debased it. I've always liked Serena but she can't really help herself. I'm kind of done with her. Just win one more and go have another baby.

Look, Serena was assessed the game penalty when it was a service game for Osaka; Serena was going to lose that game anyway. (And the match, too, for that matter, since she wasn't playing well.)

Never mind, Serena...

R205 I actually thought she was playing a much cleaner match than usual off the ground, but was just throwing in a few more DFs. Against someone like Osaka who hits cleanly and powerfully and has a serve that is actually a weapon that translates to Serena losing...twice now.

I'm struggling to assess Osaka's game. Everyone says she's such a big bitter of the ball, but I don't really see that. (Maybe due to the fact that the 3 matches I saw her play - Sabalenka, Keys, Serena - were vs. the biggest hitters on tour, so it's all relative.) But I'm impressed most by her movement and composure, two very underrated qualities in tennis. My guess is, barring injury, I could see her winning around 5-8 Slam titles, especially given her youth (20), and the fact that hard courts appear to be her favorite surface.

To be honest, I was more impressed with Sabalenka's hitting, but I've seen so little of her I can't begin to predict.

R199, you’re still talking about Serena because of your own fixation. No one is making you do it.

R122 God, the last thing I thought I would be doing today is defending Serena Williams! But in that video I'm pretty certain she is quickly saying "don't talk to me. then don't talk to me." It does sound a bit like "fuck you" though. I have no idea what she said during other changeovers.

R208 She's recently tempered her ground strokes with more spin and has gotten into better shape so that she's able to play good defense. She used to be more Keys-like, but now plays more steadily and waits for opportunities to go big. It seems to be working...plus that serve is a big weapon.

Agreed, r211. I’d also add, though, that she’s a step or two ahead of other players in controlling and dealing with the immense power coming from the other side of the net. There were four or five rallies (predrama) last night where Williams hit at least two balls that would have been winners against anyone else and that Osaka got to and dealt with as if they were just ordinary off-the-ground rallying shots. She didn’t go for the make-it-or-break-it or Hail Mary shot but upped the pressure on Williams by getting the ball back with relative ease and with incredible controlled power and depth. The message was “You’re playing at full throttle and I’ve got more gears to go before I cave.”

And then there’s the composure (you can’t teach that, sorry Serena). I think she served two or three perfect placement aces to save break points. She didn’t go for more speed or power (which most would have opted for, as if it were a crap shoot), but instinctively went for the T or the outside line, including an incredible ad-court ace that looked like a leftie’s slider.

I really feel she’s the real deal. Whether she turns out to be likeable as well as good, we’ll have to wait and see. But I suspect she won’t turn out to be a prissy little princess cunt like Ostapenko or a boring, borderline retard like Pliskova.

Kvitová, Muguruza, Keys...

I HAVE A DAUGHTER: YOU OWE ME AN APOLOGY!

If Ramos had known Serena had a daughter he'd have dealt with things very differently. Serena should have mentioned it more.

Serena Williams accuses umpire of sexism and vows to 'fight for women'

Serena played the feminist card and she played the mother card (I HAVE A DAUGHTER!!!).

Makes me wonder if she also would have played the racial card if she had faced one of those "OVA" girls instead of Naomi.

I think she was suggesting the race card when she said 'why does this always happen to me here?' but probably thought better of it when she realised who she was playing.

Within 30 minutes of this happening there was a lead 'article' in a major online paper here in Australia saying the reason all this happened is because Serena is a woman and the umpire had a problem with a woman speaking up. I felt disgusted and embarrassed for that paper, and for my country which is so OBSESSED with the #metoo thing. 30 FUCKING MINUTES after the event, some feminist hack had an 'article' ready to go. Fucking madness.

I genuinely think Serena was out of line and acted like a spoilt brat.

Good analysis, r211 and r212. I would add one more thing: Osaka also seems adept at using the short court. Yesterday some of her ground strokes were beautifully angled and she was able to out-Serena Serena. All of the other ball bashers like Keys and Ostapenko haven't yet learned how to exploit the short court. Osaka already has this in her arsenal.

R159: Fortunately for him both will be retired soon.

The problem is that top players are used to get away with their code violations. While lower ranking players get warnings all the time, the top players have tons of exceptions and they don't react well when the code is used on then.

Nadal is a perfect example of a player with a good reputation of sportmanship who reacts really bad when thing dont' go his way. He knows he violated the time code all the time, he has so many ticks that it's almost impossible to serve in time, but he reacts angry when he is called on it. And in the end he gets what he wants because he banned Ramos from his matches and other umpires know they will suffer the same fate if they enforce the code.

As for Osaka controversy of nationalities. It's more and more common now. Kazajstan was not lucky with the players they give the nationality but most of them don't know anything about the country. In Spain we have plenty of different cases. Muguruza pushed daisys for a good while, in her case money seemed the cause of all those hesitations, playing for Venezuela seemed a good idea back then in terms of money, fortunately for her she tooks the right decision. Paula Badosa had spanish and american citizenship, but frankly she never intended to play for the USA (her injuries and lack of mentality didn't let her reach her potential yet and she is still confined as top 200). There are people who did all wrong, Steven Diez played for Spain till 18, he used spanish federation money and took spots at european championships and team competitions, then decided he was canadian. Alex de Miñaur on the other hand decided to play for Australia instead of Spain after receiving way more support from Australian federation, he took that decision at 14 (it is pretty clear he was right). Then there are cases like Aliona Bolsova or Cristina Bucsa who switched from Moldova to Spain when they could apply for an spanish citizenship after spending all their childhook living and training in Spain. And the weirdest case is Nicola Kuhn, he was german, both german federation and spanish federation wanted him (he was the second best player born in 2000 after Felix Auger Alliassime, he was top 200 this year till an injury stopped his proggression) he played for germany as U14, but after reaching 16 he wanted to play for Spain (the country he lived since 3 and where he started to play tennis) and apply for citizenship.

R208: Sabalenka's hitting is impressive but she is a messy version of Muguruza. Very unconsistent and not mentally solid.

Just because a ref follows the rules he is not the bad guy because others don't. The problem is there should be consistency in referee and it should be to follow the rules and stop letting "stars of the game" have special treatment.

If Felicia Futures gets point penalties in her ITF match so should Serena Slam.

No one can argue she did not deserve the warning and the point penalty giving for the racket slam. But the game penalty is subjective what he considers abuse. For reports to claim that she just called him a thief is fake news. She ranted repeatedly about how he owed her an apology calling him a liar and a thief. It wasn't just the word thief. After she ranted about the point taken and brought her child into she could have lost the game for delay of play - another code violation, but he let it go and hoped she would calm down. She continued at him during the change over making demands. Was she ever going to stop. She was losing that match and went into a panic and could come off 10 where she was at emotionally. At that point it's about trying to distract Osaka and get the crowd behind her to help push her over by making him the villain. How anyone sides with her is beyond me.

I don't think Serena cursed at him but at one point she shrieked at him, full on temper tantrum style and kept going. Really bad form.

I think the umpire thought a verbal abuse code violation was justified because it went on so long. She even said she didn't want to talk to him anymore then went on back at him again.

I don't think she used any 'bad words' but she carried out a sustained verbal assault on the man and called him a liar and a thief and seemed to only call down the supervisor when she'd realised what a serious mistake she'd made. Then she tried to pull the sexism card. I used to be a Serena fan but her behaviour in that match was just disgusting.

Does it mean if she doesn’t curse or insult she can go on forever?

R226 Verbal abuse is not just about curse words or insults.

[quote] So do people feel that Osaka is just a one-time or two-time GS winner, or will she win a handful?

At least she’s guaranteed a spot in the International Tennis Hall of Fame.

She also could have played the POG card, R217.

Will Djokovic pay some fans to bring Serbian flag and cheer for him to combat Del Potro's loud Argentine fans? He'll NEVER be the crowd favorite! It just eats at him so.

R230: He won't be the fan favourite this time either. Argentinian fans are loud (very very loud) but even without that people loves Juan Martin, he is a very likeable guy with a powerful game, and of course there's the comeback story after so many injuries.

I don't mind Nole winning, i think he is a legend and deserves more praise that he gets, but if i have to chose i prefer Delpo winning

There's a quote from "Justified", the TV Series based on Elmore Leonard's novels, that goes: "If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, then you're the asshole."

When Serena started to complain about how stuff always happened to her, the quote popped to mind.

Nole.

Nole and Serena are cut from the same cloth - just saying.

Is this where we talk about Oracle Challenger Series?

Is this the most current thread?

Yes, R236.

OK.

DelPo, let's go!

Coco/Barty defeat Kiki/Babos to win the women's doubles title!

Does Babos have a baby?

DelPo team

Shame! I thought Kiki won 2 days ago and I only realized today it was just the semifinal!

I found this thread just in time lol.

The roof is closed so his fans will sound extra loud!

It's a female umpire today. I wonder if she will all coaching from the box since all coaches do it, according to everyone.

Why is there even a thing such as so-called “mixed” doubles?

R246: Because it's a lot of fun (and good player can get extra GS tittles if they want them)

I got tittles!

Precision of language.

with Nishikori's loss in the SF on Friday, it's official: by the end of September, all active ATP slam champions (Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray, Wawrinka, Del Potro and Cilic) will all be 30 years old or older. That's never happened before when we had no one in his 20s as an active slam champ

Hopefully that changes next year.

I hope the OP jinx pic works.

JMDP obviously needs to pick on ND's forehand and hope it breaks down. He shouldn't even bother with the backhand side unless he's got clear open court to work with

Why make such a big deal about the roof being closed for a major final? Hasn’t Australia done it before?

Christie Brinkley's work is fairly good, don't you think?

I think like all issues, the Serena issue has more than one angle. Before I get any further, I am a Serena fan, but also a long-time fan of tennis. I'm approaching the issue from both perspectives.

The coaching call seemed fair to me. Even Patrick Mouratoglou admitted he was coaching then said everyone does it, which the other players and tennis experts agreed with. I saw Sascha coaching, so why just call it on Serena's coach? Yet it was still a fair call from the umpire. Serena may not have seen the coaching, and I truly believe she didn't, but the rule is the player suffers for the coach's gaffe, so the ref applied the rule. Assessment: Fair call. If players and experts don't like the rule, lobby to change it.

The racket smash is a no-brainer. That's an automatic penalty and I've seen it applied pretty consistently. Assessment: Fair call.

The third one was a bit extreme in my opinion. I do think a soft warning maybe was the right idea, but that may have set off Serena even more. Assessment: Judgment call, but bad judgment from the ref. Let the match play out.

My take, and it's only that, is that Serena was losing to someone who was playing better than she was, then she projected her anger at her own play at the ref. Serena's serve wasn't working, but Osaka's was. Osaka was more consistent off the ground, while Serena wasn't, especially because Osaka made her hit two or three balls more than other players on the tour would have. Serena got angry, got a warning, then focused her anger on the ref instead of channeling her anger to play better. That is on Serena. She was mad at herself but focused her anger outside of herself. She should have moved on from the first call, but she couldn't. The smashed racket warning made her think back to the coaching ruling, which she then used to focus her anger on the ref. Bad idea from Serena. She should take responsibility for that.

She fucked up in my opinion. She's been fined $17,000 (a drop in the bucket for her), but I figured she would get fined, and she deserved it. She made the match an ugly spectacle. She should have handled the situation better, especially as a veteran.

It's annoying that it then became about women's rights, men get away with it but women don't, I'm a mother, I'm out here fighting for the right thing, why does this always happen to me, etc. Maybe Ramos made a bad judgment call on the last penalty, but he's justified on the first two. That's on Serena and her coach. But she was losing, and I think she would have lost without the drama. I think deep down she knows that, but as a coddled star she's making this about everyone else instead of accepting her role in this, which is bigger than the umpire's in my opinion. This isn't her first time losing her cool when she couldn't bring her best and the other player was playing well, and at at the US Open (2009 semi with Clijsters).

I'm surprised at all the support Serena is getting. The tennis officials fined her, which is appropriate based on what I saw. Worst of all, this takes away from young Osaka's brilliant showing in her FIRST ever Slam final, which she was able to make a victory. Not an easy feat as history shows. In my opinion, what Serena did ultimately hurts tennis, a sport usually marked by good sportsmanship. As a veteran, she should be setting a better example. Oh yeah, and same deal as a mother.

My take: Officials should discuss with Ramos why he assessed the coaching only against Serena (could be that's the only one he saw), d and why not try to diffuse the situation when the player clearly couldn't let it go? Also, discuss the coaching rule with the players and see if it should be changed. Fine Serena (already done) and when she cools down, tell her she's representing tennis, and as a veteran, she should set a better example. This isn't her first outburst. She should know better.

All the oohing and aahing for Delpo must be driving Djokovic mad. He’s now bouncing the ball about three hundred times before serving—he’s tense and nervous.

Your comment R255 is so well reasoned and reasonable that no doubt someone will take issue with it. I especially agree with the assessment of the game penalty - in the end it punished Osaka as much as Serena because of the question mark it put on her victory and the way it soured it for her, especially since she did seem to be headed towards victory as things stood.

Serena saw the coaching, even Chris Evert said so, he motioned to come to net and she did and won the point.

She got herself in trouble. She should have shut her mouth. I don't cheat, I have a daughter...what a load of BS. Ruined Osaka's moment. Selfish bitch. Zero Sympathy. Many commenting on her being a bad loser.

It is my belief as well that Serena saw the coaching signals.

Was there any reunion of old champs for the 50th anniversary of the US Open? Saw Roddick,Austin in a box during the women's finals. Jimmy Connors even was spotted on the grounds. Why wouldn't ESPN broadcast something like that - or did I miss it?

If Djokovic wins will he be able to afford a cheeseburger?

If they did, then ESPN couldn't remind you that Serena had a baby

She [italic]what[/italic], r262?!?!

The amount of times Serena's said she does not cheat is reminding me of infamous 'I never tested positive' coming from Lance Armstrong

Serena has always been a poor loser and a rotten tennis diplomat.

I guess no one cares about the men's match :(

It's true r263, I checked on Snopes. Serena is a mother, she has a baby!

Delpo isn't getting enough length on his shots which is allowing Djokovic to gain control of the points. Dammit.

Serena is such a cheater!

Djokovic is simply the better player. Quality will win the day. Djokovic in three sets if he keeps playing this well.

Novak is taking the crowd out of the match—even on DL.

R271, that's exactly what Novak needed to do, and do early. He should win this.

So Djokovic seems to be losing it?

That’s mild stuff from him.

Oh boy. Complete shift since Del Potro broke back. The crowd is in it now. Djokovic needs to take the crowd out of it again.

Meryl is there!

I love how they show M.

I don't know why, but it breaks my heart a bit to see Novak so desperate for the crowd's love.

Fucking stupid crowd. Djokovic actually showing some good sportsmanship.

Jesus, that game . . . 20 minutes.

Oh my god! Look at that. Good sportmanship! Who would've thunk?

what is novak yakking about?

He's just blowing off steam in Serbian or whatever one of the million languages he speaks

Del Potro blew an early chance in the first set. It was either Djokovic's 2nd or 3rd service game (I forget which) and Del Potro had 0-30 on it. Then the next 2 points he lost because he refused to hit a down-the-line backhand and instead went for a weak 1 handed slice. Maybe it was about preserving his wrist for later in the match or he was nervous and it was all mental, but it cost him a potential break. From then on, Djokovic stopped being tentative and was more aggressive which led to him winning the first set.

Glad to see Juan Martin get back on serve in the second at least

Is Picasso at the match?

Boobs out!

Serves out!

Half of this match is Novak bouncing balls

obviously the tournament officials spoke to the umpire before the match and told her to be lenient as hell if the players let the serve clock run out a bit. We can't have outburst finals 2 days in a row ya know

some tight forehands in the tiebreak by DP so far

fuck

Too many errors in the tiebreak by Del Potro. Djokovic should take this in three sets.

well in less than hour we'll be given Djokovic's heart again

We knew the women’s final would generate more comments here than the men’s.

This is as depressing a final as yesterday's was uplifting.

It's great. Glad to see Novak back on track and shutting the crowd down. I've been very disappointed with the crowd overall for the entire tournament.

The only positive I can say for men's tennis this year is that we haven't had a big 5 slam final since RG 2017 when Nadal defeated Wawrinka. Since then we've had only had big 3 winners but at least we've had non-big 3 finalists (Cilic, Anderson, Cilic, Thiem, Anderson and now likely Del Potro). Hopefully next year we'll see a non-big 5er win a fucking slam. Men's tennis has been so dull with only the predictable players winning slams. It's in DIRE need of a new winner

Yes, since Novak's such an upstanding model of exemplary court behavior.

I just have this to post in response to R297:

Yes, r297, and he’s so sincere in his boobs-out hugs for the crowd and his special affection for the ball kids, especially when they have to get him his towel.

Depressing

The level of play in this match has actually been extremely high.

I love how the crowd went quiet after the second set. I like Del Potro but Djokovic's return to the top this year has been spectacular.

What ever gave you the idea that I would consider Federer to be an upstanding example, R298? I wouldn't consider either to be even remotely close to Mr. Congeniality.

Agreed, R301.

Has he threatened to shove a ball down a line person's throat? If not...amateur!

Yes, R302, spectacularly depressing...

Novak is well behaved today of course he is since he's winning.

Federer's worst moment IMO was the time he lost a close final to Nadal in Australia (the only time so far Nadal has won the AO(. Federer cried during the trophy presentation and ruined Nadal's moment. That was disgraceful but most commentators and critics still lauded him as he "showed how much winning means to him". No he was being a sore loser.

Juan!

FINALLY A TIME VIOLATION CALLED!!!

This might go four sets, but I'd still be surprised if Djokovic didn't win in three straight. He's simply the better player.

and just to add, it was disgraceful because Federer had already won the AO a few times by then so it was bizarre to act behave like a baby after losing

Will any of you tell me how the orcs first came into being?

They are distantly related David Goffin, R312, and we can probably whip up a few before this set is done.

R313 = Saruman

this has been pretty boring.

Federer cried because at that point Rafa had beaten him in 3 straight grand slam finals they played and was the better player. That was before the big 3 (4/5) and Roger had been alone at the top. He, like Serena, had a hard time accepting other players could just be better rather than him having an off day.

7 more to go Novak!

damn he's crying

I think too many wrist surgeries.

Disappointing finish.

Summer is officially over.

I feel happy for Djokovic but I'm also so sad for Del Potro.

[quote]Meryl is there!

Is Roger at home throwing things?

I'm not a Djokovic fan, but he's had a great summer and has played amazingly well. Good for him. I'm also glad Nadal did not win.

Yes, R323, but they are very nice things.

Where is Del Porto's gf?

Was there a boobs out?

Is Serena having a rally, I mean making a speech later during the awards ceremony?

I hid the Ring Dings

Haha, muted applause for Novak

Is Katrina Adams a moron? Great champs Evert and McEnroe get to HAND her the trophy to give to the champion....why can't they just give it to the winners. This bitch needs to go. Her interview with scared of her own shadow Chris McHendry exposed her stupidity in addressing Serena at the awards ceremony and basically dissing Osaka. I didn't buy her lame excuse she was just talking about the controversy.

Djoko talks about respect , lol

Apparently genuinely gracious to DelPo.

Hopefully he will win all 4 slams next year which will put him at 18.

When has Novak ever dissed an opponent or cast shade? That's Roger's game. That phony fag swiss.

Yes, Novak was gracious actually, I'll give him further consideration....

The pic jinx doesn't apply to Nole , as proven last Wimbledon and again today . lol. He is simply the best right now and could probably win a grandslam next year barring any injuries.

Who is going to announce their retirement before the Australian Open, Roger or Rafa?

R313, David Goffin is no orc knock-off. He's a cute, talented, Hobbit. Hope he keeps doing well.

Tsitsipas will win a slam next year so Novak ain’t getting 4. Sorry.

Andy Murray, R338.

Go troll somewhere else, R335.

R339, I love Goffin! But technically I think orcs are related to hobbits, or elves, or something like that.

I mean, the question was raised.

Orcs were derived from elves.

[quote] Hopefully he will win all 4 slams next year which will put him at 18.

That cannot happen at his age.

This could be his temporary surge. It may last a year or so, but don't expect consistency from a player over 30.

r255 honest question, because you seem to be one of the more even posters on this: how do you insult the integrity of a match official and not get penalized for it? Seriously. That is a clear no go in the majority of sports at any level-male or female.

The only call I side-eyed was the initial one. Even then, if she doesn't melt down it's not a game penalty because she wouldn't have smashed her racquet.

R346 That's funny because right before the umpire gave the coaching warning Serena was "side-eyeing" her box as Patrick was gesturing with his hands. Watch the replay on ESPN3.

Djokovic is the best player on the tour again, no doubt about that. Glad to see him back to himself. But woe to Nadal and Federer. Djokovic held them off for years, except at the French Open. I expect it won't be the Roger-Rafa show next year now that Djoker is back.

r347 I don't dispute the infraction--the difference is I haven't watched tennis lately to know whether or not that's enforced in that context. It's borderline from when I watched closely 20 years ago, but that's another world.

she clearly cheated. and she was lying her fat ass off. "I don't cheat, I have a daughter! " fucking BS.

R348, that may be true for now, but Djokovic has been far too erratic this year to say that he's "back to himself". He's pulled out his full arsenal for the last two Slams, but over the last six months he's also lost before the quarters in five tournaments, and four of those were in the very early rounds. Let's see how he does indoors and at the AO.

R351, I'm not R348, and I do not like Djokovic, but he does seem to be getting back to where he was before he was sidelined. He's been white-hot this summer. He won Wimbledon and the US Open, sure; but he also won Cincinnati (beating Federer in straight sets) and was runner-up at Queen's Club.

Yes, he's accomplished a lot this summer. My point is that three months of white heat can still turn burn out quickly, and if he loses any more weight he'll disintegrate into stardust.

Serena has announced she's split with Patrick and will now be coached by her daughter.

LOL - when Nadal pulled out of his semi w/ Delpo I remembered he had Davis Cup the following week. A friend watching with me said Rafa was saving himself for that - but I guessed it was so he could get out of it. Now he's out for at least a month. This time is hilarious. Worse he can't play for Team Roger, er Europe in the inexplicable Laver Cup.

Which one is more ridiculous, the Laver Cup or the new Davis Cup, aka World Cup for tennis?

When Jelena files for divorce next week, we'll all know why.

Call me Jelena!

When Jelena files for divorce next week, we'll all know why.

Call me Jelena!

R356 the next Gen finals! Or as I call it - The Consolation Cup for under 21's who are never gonna be good enough to make the real ATP World finals.

Anyone has the video of delpo crying last night?

Sorry, no, R360, just video of that moment in R357/R358. So sweet!

Well, Djoko is still hated so...

[quote] Which one is more ridiculous, the Laver Cup or the new Davis Cup, aka World Cup for tennis?

The one we can talk about here.

Does anyone else think Team Serena strategically placed Isha in front of Patrick in an attempt to block his hands from Ramos' view? I'm only half joking. I think they might've.

I haven't seem Serena be called out as a liar? She was being coached and she did come in. I don't have a problem with it but she should have just taken the warning and moved on. Instead she protested, too much. Liars usually do. That display she put on was because she was losing.

I completely agree with the assessment in R255. Serena, as a veteran, knows the rules, and they were applied as they should have been. Claiming that other players don't get in trouble for XYZ doesn't get her out of her responsibility of following the rules. I would say the exact same thing for a male player as well.

One slightly cheeky comment.... I found it laughably ironic that she kept claiming "It's not fair! It's not fair!" while waving around a $2 million diamond ring on her hand.

R307: That was awful, i understood he was disgusted with himself (because he blow the match) but it was extremely unprofesional. One thing i crying after losing the opportunity of your life (like Ivanisevic did, and i don't like Goran at all), or if you are a young player, and other very different after winning tons of GS. And one thing is a couple of tears, and other crying during the whole thing.

If a young player does that he'll be crushed, but it was Federer so everything was perfect as always

I wanted Delpo to win, but i'm happy Novak is back. I still think young players only need to believe in themselves to dethrone the big three, but i'm not sure if we have a big champion in the next gen, but i want new faces in the final rounds. I want what we had in the wta at the end of the 90's, veterans and rising stars fighting for the GS

R359: Hopefully this year next gen tournament won't be as controversial (with all that models crap). The worst thing is that just like last year the only player of that age who is a real top is Sascha Zverev. Some of the players of last year competition made some impact this year (like Chung at the AO) but none of them came close to top 10. In fact Tsitsipas is the player who is nearer that position and if my memory doesn't fail he didn't play the tournament last year

[quote] One thing i crying after losing the opportunity of your life

Thank you for understanding.

[quote] believe in themselves to dethrone the big three,

Another big “fuck you”.

[quote]the only player of that age who is a real top is Sascha Zverev

I'm a real top too!

R369: OH Jana, that moment was hearbreaking

R370: I did on purpose Judy, because i knew you'll be here in a hurry

R371: I meant a top player, Borna

Some players have been very critical of Serena - mostly on the men's side. Namely Feliciano Lopez.

Navratilova was probably the most critical of the (ex) female players. Anne Keothavong has been bigging up Ramos. Hantuchova on Amazon Prime seemed a bit confused by the situation.

The ITF has released the following statement relating to umpiring decisions during the 2018 US Open Women’s final:

“Carlos Ramos is one of the most experienced and respected umpires in tennis. Mr. Ramos’ decisions were in accordance with the relevant rules and were re-affirmed by the US Open’s decision to fine Serena Williams for the three offences.”

“It is understandable that this high profile and regrettable incident should provoke debate. At the same time, it is important to remember that Mr. Ramos undertook his duties as an official according to the relevant rule book and acted at all times with professionalism and integrity.”

Uncle Tony defended Serena, of course Nadal hate Ramos with all his guts because he is only one giving him the obvious time violations.

It seems rules are only for journeymen/women, the top players are above them

Pam Shriver said similar things: why can't a great champion like Serena control herself? Why not just let it go? Serena made the situation spiral out of control.

R377 - Annabel Croft told an amusing tale about Ramos and Uncle Toni. After the tournament when Ramos gave him a couple of code violations (was it in Australia?), Rafa, Uncle Toni, Ramos and Annabel ended up on the same flight home. I think she might have even said Ramos was sitting next to Toni and it was a very long flight, but Ramos spent the entire flight berating Ramos for what he'd done in the match.

No comment. Cartoon from Australian newspaper.

[quote] Ramos spent the entire flight berating Ramos for what he'd done in the match.

I believe you meant Uncle Toni berated Ramos.

R381 - Indeed I did.

R374, what did Feliciano Lopez say?

No need to feel ashamed, R382.

R383 that the fine she is getting is quite low given they fined him 2,000 for saying "fucking wind"£

#2

Here's Navratilova's commentary in the NY Times.

[bold]Martina Navratilova: What Serena Got Wrong - Just because the guys might be able to get away with it doesn’t mean it’s acceptable.[/bold]

Serena Williams has part of it right. There is a huge double standard for women when it comes to how bad behavior is punished — and not just in tennis.

But in her protests against an umpire during the United States Open final on Saturday, she also got part of it wrong. I don’t believe it’s a good idea to apply a standard of “If men can get away with it, women should be able to, too.” Rather, I think the question we have to ask ourselves is this: What is the right way to behave to honor our sport and to respect our opponents?

To recap: The trouble began when early in the second set, Ms. Williams was given a warning for coaching. This one is on her coach: Patrick Mouratoglou was using both hands to motion to Ms. Williams to move forward and got called on it. While it is true that illegal coaching is quite common and that most coaches do it, it’s also true that despite what many commentators have said following Saturday’s events, they are called on it quite frequently and that most of the time, players just shrug it off and know that going forward, they and their coaches now need to behave, because the next infraction will cost them a point. The player is responsible for his or her coach’s conduct. And it is actually irrelevant whether the player saw or heard whatever instructions were given; either way, it is still an infraction.

Ms. Williams was not happy about this warning and let the umpire, Carlos Ramos, know it. So far, not so bad. (It is also common for the umpire to talk to the player first about the coaching — a sort of “soft warning” before the real warning so that the player has a chance to “muzzle” the coach. Had that been done, nothing at all might have followed — but we will never know.) It was a few games later when matters really escalated. Williams lost her serve at 3-1 up and demolished her racket — an automatic code violation that, because it came on top of an earlier warning, resulted in the automatic loss of one point.

Ms. Williams opted to argue about this: She insisted that she didn’t cheat, she wasn’t coached, and therefore she shouldn’t have been docked. But it doesn’t matter whether she knew she was receiving coaching. She was being coached, as Mr. Mouratoglou admitted after the match, and whether she knew it or not is moot. So at this stage, she had been given a warning — one that couldn’t be dismissed retroactively — and had smashed her racket, an automatic violation. Mr. Ramos, effectively, had no choice but to dock her a point.

It was here that Ms. Williams really started to lose the plot. She and Mr. Ramos were, in effect, talking past each other. She was insisting that she doesn’t cheat — completely believable, but besides the point — while he was making a call over which he, at that point, had little discretion.

It’s worth noting that Ms. Williams has some serious scar tissue when it comes to this particular tournament. In 2004, she was subjected to some notoriously awful line-calling and umpiring in a match against Jennifer Capriati. In 2009, she suffered a self-inflicted wound when, at match point in a semifinal against Kim Clijsters, she lost her temper at a line judge, leading to a point penalty that resulted in her automatically losing the match. In 2011, in a final against Samantha Stosur, Ms. Williams lost a point for yelling, “Come on!” after hitting a forehand that appeared to help her regain her momentum in a game she’d been losing. She went on to berate the umpire, calling her “unattractive inside,” and was hit with another code violation.

CONT'D

All of this U.S. Open history, combined, perhaps, with always feeling like an outsider in the game of tennis — I know exactly how that feels — goes some way toward explaining why Ms. Williams reacted the way she did, and most of all, how she just couldn’t let go. But what is clear is she could very much not let go.

Much of the coverage has focused on what happened when Ms. Williams confronted Mr. Ramos a second time, demanding an apology and calling him a thief. Mr. Ramos handed Ms. Williams a third code violation — which cost her a whole game. After a long confrontation, play resumed. Naomi Osaka went on to win the match — her first major title, and the first major title for Japan as well — under an onslaught of booing and drama the likes of which, as far as I know, we have never seen in a final of a Grand Slam.

It’s difficult to know, and debatable, whether Ms. Williams could have gotten away with calling the umpire a thief if she were a male player. But to focus on that, I think, is missing the point. If, in fact, the guys are treated with a different measuring stick for the same transgressions, this needs to be thoroughly examined and must be fixed. But we cannot measure ourselves by what we think we should also be able to get away with. In fact, this is the sort of behavior that no one should be engaging in on the court. There have been many times when I was playing that I wanted to break my racket into a thousand pieces. Then I thought about the kids watching. And I grudgingly held on to that racket.

Ms. Williams was absolutely marvelous toward Ms. Osaka after the match. A true champion at her best. But during the match — well, enough said. The way Ms. Osaka carried herself both during and after the match was truly inspiring.

So is there a double standard in tennis?

We do need to take a hard look at our sport, without any rose-colored glasses, and root out any inconsistencies and prejudices that might be there. Tennis is a very democratic sport, and we need to make sure it stays that way.

But it is also on individual players to conduct themselves with respect for the sport we love so dearly. Because we all look so forward to the next time Ms. Williams and Ms. Osaka play each other; hopefully the drama will come from their magnificent shots and their fierce competitiveness — two athletes showing us how it is done, inspiring us all in the process.

END

$17k does seem very low for three code violations. She really should have been fined more since it was such a high profile example of a player bringing the game into disrepute.

I haven't seen as much media/social media discussion of such a negative event in tennis probably since she threatened Shino with shoving the ball down her throat. $17k is nothing for something that no-one's stopped talking about for 48hrs so far.

Osaka was on nbc morning show and she declined to take a side because she said she hasn't rewatched the match. She said she didn't know if the crowd was booing her or didn't like the outcome of the match.

Like other have pointed out, a twenty year old in her first Grand Slam title held her composure while a tennis veteran with 23 GS titles to her name completely lost control of her behavior.

Could someone please translate into English both R386 and R387, por favor?

R393 Osaka's backhand and forehand are now considered sexist, the world has gone crazy.

R [R386] and R[R387] are useless without you know what.

R395, both comments have been translated in this thread already.

R395 see R394 and R385

"fucking wind" is offensive?

Thanks, r394 and r385! I didn't know that Feliciano, besides being so damn handsome, also has a wicked sense of humor.

sure it is offensive!

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

There were already signs that not everyone is buying into the narrative of Williams and her cheerleaders, such as Billie Jean King.

Former British No 1 and current Fed Cup Captain Anne Keothavong - whose brother James is one of the world's foremost umpires - tweeted: 'Sexism is a problem in the wider picture of tennis but I don't believe the decisions Carlos Ramos made that night had anything to do with it. He was just doing his job.'

British player Tara Moore also made the point that a coaching free-for-all it would disadvantage lower ranked players with less financial clout.

'If coaching was allowed at all events, it would make it even more of an elitist sport...what about those players who are not top 80 who can't afford to travel with a coach?' she asked.

Australian Richard Ings, the former top international umpire and head of rules for the ATP, backed Ramos to the hilt and told the BBC: 'He handled that match absolutely perfectly. He saw violations and he had the courage of his convictions to call them when he saw them. I support him 110 per cent. It was one of the best officiating jobs that I've seen in years.'

Poor Ramos. I hope his career won't be affected because of this fucking bitch.

Mary Carrillo: Serena can be a bully, she has a history of blow ups, and Ramos acted correctly.

Still better than Sharapova, who’s a bully and a cheater.

Btw, Sharapova must be loving this.

R404, thanks. Mary is right again.

Mary is so masculine and smart I love her.

I can't believe the umpire only got paid $450 for the match?!!! They need a pay raise! It's too low!

R408 I was surprised by that too.

They probably have their air fares and accommodation paid for by the organisers at the GS tournaments but that's an incredibly low amount to pay a professional umpire. In the tennis world, some of the umpires are as recognisable as the players. Actually it looks like Ramos has gone into hiding and is under police protection.

Hey R408, it costs $450 to buy a hot dog and a coke at the US Open.

You forgot a zero, R410 ($4,500). ;-)

I'm surprised the umpires never have to take a toilet break. They're out there as long as the players and they do it quite often.

Or as I call it a “toilet break”.

Interesting, if accurate but there's no further breakdown.

The really sexist chair umpire warning was the one for the player who changed her shirt on court (with full sports bra underneath). This is more about what they let the game's superstars get away with than anything else.

Mary Carillo got it right. That’s sJW on the panel with her is insufferable and even says at the end “I wish there was a black woman here” (on panel) to shed light. Ummm — what?? Also has that bitch ever even seen a tennis match before?

[quote]The really sexist chair umpire warning was the one for the player who changed her shirt on court (with full sports bra underneath). This is more about what they let the game's superstars get away with than anything else.

Re: the Alize Cornet shirt change. I heard somewhere along the line - can't remember where - that the shirt change fine was because of where it took place, along the baseline after play started, as opposed to in her chair during the changeover. I don't know if there's any truth to that, but I can't recall a men's player removing his shirt on the baseline in the midst of play.

Re:R404, that Megan Greenwell woman from Deadspin sounds like a complete and utter idiot. No one is denying that Serena has experienced racism throughout her career, but why does there need to be a "woman of color" to comment on Saturday's events? Have we reached the point in our society where only a person of the same race, gender, sexual orientation, etc. can comment on the situation? Moronic.

I think they revised their policy and now players of both sexes can change their shirts but only when in the players' areas (chairs)

They should allow the players to change their shorts on court as well. It's not like they go commando.

I remember Tsonga once changing shorts on court as he wasn't allowed to go to locker room (for whatever reasons I can't remember). He had the balls boys all lined up around him to hold towels around him

Nadal has changed his shorts on court too. He just wrapped a towel around himself.

The rule is that you must do it off-court, either at your chair or in the locker room. Cornet got the code violation because she did it on court but they reviewed the situation and decided not to fine her.

At least Serena Williams’ coach was having fun in town.

On Friday night, before Williams’ US Open loss, Patrick Mouratoglou — who coached her from the stands, leading her to lose a point and sparking her outrage at the chair umpire — was at dinner at hip Public Kitchen, spies said.

His group included last year’s Open winner Sloane Stephens, NBA star Andre Iguodala and Cuba Gooding Jr.

They then hit Public Arts downstairs, where Bryan Ferry’s son Isaac was hosting his Gouranga party, with guests including Cara and Poppy Delevingne, Suki Waterhouse and Helena Christensen.

wow, he was partying with Sloane Stephens...next pupil or lover?

Patrick is a hot daddy. I will do whatever he wants me to do.

That explains his weird behaviour after the final when he went straight out and admitted what he did to the press. He was still drunk from the night before!

I bet Serena is seething with jealousy...coach will be fired.

I appreciate Patrick was honest but he made Serena look like a liar.

R427 Serena is a liar, of course she knew he was coaching.

Duh

The fact that people have to go back 30/40/50 years in order to find examples of men who threw Serena-like tantrums is pretty telling.

A couple seconds after threatening to kill a lineswoman on camera and in front of the crowd, Serena denied saying it and attempted to gaslight the lineswoman. She's a blatant and pathological liar. All of that "I never cheat!" just means that she does cheat.

R429, do we? What about Fognini's sexist abuse of a female judge? His racist statements about an opponent? To say nothing of Kyrigos, who has, among other things, cheated by doing jumping jacks while another player was serving (I think this may have been his famous match with Wawrinka, in which he made sexist comments about Stan's girlfriend to try to throw Stan off his game), and has blatantly failed to show any competitive effort in matches, including at the US Open?

^^^^judge=umpire

And is Rafa a "blatant and pathological liar?" He denied for years receiving coaching from Uncle Toni, yet everyone knew he did.

[quote] His racist statements about an opponent?

I hadn’t heard about that. Please do tell.

R434 It must be the "zingaro di merda" to Filip Krajinovic

R433 Yes, he is.

Uncle Toni doesn't get a dime from Nadal.

Thanks, R435.

R431/433, those weak attempts pretty much explain why Serena apologists have had to resort to going back 50 years to find a man whose behavior was horrible enough to warrant comparison to Serena's. Serena is a disordered person (probably doped up too) with no self-control. Her sense of self is so grandiose that she can't accept that she's aging and no longer the "best" and that it's actually possible that many of her opponents are just better than she is; they've always been more skilled but now many are able to handle and match her power so she no longer has the advantage that she's become accustomed to. She's never going to change. You're not going to be able to excuse or explain away her consistent pattern of behavior. I feel sorry for her prop aka daughter.

Sure, R439--it's clear that since 1968 the male players have always exemplars of behavior with just a minor infarction on rare occasion.

Infarction? On court?

In some instances one can only hope, R441.

Did Ben and Courtney find Saturday's Women's Final "compelling"?

I'm surprised Ben still has a job after his stupid arguments with Kyrgios and Brad Gilbert on twitter.

I quite enjoyed his podcast and writing in the past but his recent spats were so unprofessional for a journalist I could barely believe I was seeing it.

I gave Tarango the code violation when he called me the most corrupt officials in the game at Wimbledon 1995

And his wife slapped me in the face in front of everyone

Rothenberg vs. Gilbert didn't bother me much. It's two commentators having a discussion/disagreement on the structure of the game. (Although both seem to lose sight of the fact that there is not a right or wrong answer to the best-of-five discussion, there are only varying opinions. But then we're not at Bud Collins level of professionalism with either of these two.)

Rothenberg vs. Kyrgios was an embarrassment. Regardless of how he feels about Kyrgios, he's a subject that Rothenberg will likely have to cover for another five or ten years, so I don't see how we're supposed to take any of his commentary seriously when he clearly has an axe to grind.

[quote] we're not at Bud Collins level of professionalism with either of these two

They should have referred this matter to Uncle Studley.

And Fingers Fortescue!

[quote] And Fingers Fortescue!

Yes!

I couldn't go to dinner! I had a baby to take care of!!! Yes, I've been keeping it a secret until now

I say go along to Googalong.

Close...Goolagong

Ramos has a cute little ass. Not too bad for a middle aged guy.

Puig!