Christopher Lawford DEAD after collapsing in yoga studio

Improper downward dog

Drugs! *gasp*

How much does this family endure??? Its a shanda. A shanda I tell you.

He wanted to work on his shavasana*

Kelly Ripa loved working with him back in the day.

Whoa. I was a friend of one of his sisters back in the 80's when he was in deep into his druggie years. His eyes were so dead and he was so withdrawn and anti social. I could not believe it was the same person when his acting career was starting up.

RIP Chris

Together in Heaven.

A very close resemblence to his dad.

A cross between a Kennedy and a Lawford... Amazing he made it this far.

Marilyn's ghost, out for blood

Don't forget Arlene Francis. They got her, too.

Yoga of Death: The Christopher Lawford Story

Was he into hiring hookers for extreme nipple-play like his old man?

Read his book! "Symptoms of Withdraw." I read it years ago. Hilarious! Memorable line "When I was three months old, I got my own place." His parents put him out the house at THREE MONTHS OLD! They rented a vacant apartment down the hall and put him and the nanny in it for all the crying.

My condolences.

The Kennedy Curse strikes again. Open top cars, kitchen shortcuts, bridges, planes, and now yoga studios.

How old was his Dad when he died? Maybe a hidden heart condition. I thought his Dad was very sexy and wondered why he didn't work more. I figured he was lazy.

We'll have to hire detective Charlie Brent to investigate this death.

R16 Think dad was due to all the drinky poos.

Don't know much about it, but Yoga doesn't hit me as very strenuous...

Kara Kennedy's heart attack was triggered by swimming...

He looks too little like his okay-looking father and too much like the hideous horse-faced Kennedys.

Daily Mail reporting heart attack.

^looked

Quite the marrying fool - had left his third wife and taken up with a fourth fiancee just last year.

R23 Tis the way of the third generation Kennedys. Think nearly all are on wife number 2.

I liked him on AMC. He was older and not as conventionally good looking as he predecessors, but had chemistry with a lot of the cast. Ripa and Rosa Nevin especially.

Was his peen involved with his death? Those Kennedies are always getting in trouble with their peens.

R26 No it was probably the other Kennedy bugaboos: drugs and booze

Funny how every headline is "JFK's Nephew Dies" and not a single one is "Peter Lawford's Son Dies". I thought Peter Lawford was pretty famous.

If he meditated too deeply he might actually be stuck now on the astral plane. Regardless, this shows once again that physical activity will kill you.

Yoga is much more difficult than people realize. There were definitely times when I thought I was gonna die by the time savasana came around.

R28 No one really remembers Peter Lawford nowadays, everyone learns about JFK.

R16

He didn't work more because Sinatra froze him out after JFK went to Palm Springs and stayed with Bing Crosby after Sinatra had built a helicopter pad for the President's chopper. Bobby Kennedy made him cancel on Frank because of the Mafia thing.

Peter Lawford had to clean up Marilyn's house after she died but before the cops got there.

Peter Lawford was doing so much blow at the end his brains were dribbling out of his news. His third wife wrote that he was so drunk that once, when he saw Nancy Reagan on TV, he peed on the television.

Chris was a nice guy. I worked with him years ago on fundraising for a substance abuse/recovery teaching program. He was sober and substance free for the last 25 years or more. How could he not have been screwed up, though? Fucked up father, two uncles assassinated, Teddy drunk and deadly at Chappaquiddick, divorce, drug use, way too many of his cousins dead too soon...it would take a toll on anyone.

RIP

He's the one kneeling in the front row.

^^^ "nose" not "news"

Live coverage on NHK World.

Looks pretty busyed up

Peter Lawford died at 61.

The wife is a yoga teacher.

R14, It wasn't down the hall, it was down the street. Peter complained to Pat that he was noisy, cried too much and he made their house smell like shit. But, what new mother would agree to such an arrangement? Especially a Kennedy.

R19, Kara's heart attack was at a gym. Her heart had been weakened by treatments for her cancer.

I remember Peter was reduced to sitcoms in the late 60s.

The problems really ramped up when he divorced Pat Kennedy.

Peter on The Hollywood Palace variety show.

I’m fine. I send my love!

I think namaste in savasana for a while, but I’ll be back.

I saw Peter rcently on some episode of Doris Day when she did that dreadful sitcom in the 1960s. He was supposed to be some swinging bachelor but he just looked pathetic in that middle aged male trying too hard circa 1968. Don Draper he wasn't. Don would never be a try hard.

Why would you resort to drugs cause your uncles were killed?

Stop with the anachronism, R42. Drugs were miracles of science and they were readily available.

T’was Bikram yoga killed him it did. Why anyone does yoga, much less in a 140 degree sweatbox is a mystery to me. It’s just asking for a sudden death.

[quote]No one really remembers Peter Lawford nowadays, everyone learns about JFK.

Well fuck them, I say.

Heaven needed another angel.

The other Lawford kids seem pretty low key

That family is cursed.

Yoga is low impact and low stress. If he died there it was due to a preexisting condition.

He suffered from Hep C due to his drug use.

R39 - He made the move to TV in the early 1950s.

Mr Ed teeth--the Kennedy look.

Christopher was born on the same day and in the same hospital as Joey Luft. Seriously.

I was molested!

"His third wife wrote that he was so drunk that once, when he saw Nancy Reagan on TV, he peed on the television."

To be fair, most of us probably peed on the tv every time we saw Nancy Reagan on tv.

He probably wasn't peeing. He was so drunk he saw Nan and pulled out his dick, per usual

A shame, because he was so cute as a young man.

According to Christopher Lawford's book, Peter Lawford's brain was so addled by drugs toward the end of his life that he was having conversations with squirrels.

This is how Peter Lawford ended up:

"Lawford died in 1984, at age 61, of kidney and liver failure. Initially, his ashes were entombed in the same cemetery as Marilyn Monroe's. But the burial bills were never paid, and the mortuary threatened to 'evict' the remains. Finally, Lawford's fourth wife scattered his ashes into the Pacific Ocean. The National Enquirer provided the boat in exchange for the scoop."

Fame. Ain't it a bitch.

I didn’t even know he existed. And he’s gone, and I’m still here...

Too many poppers.

He had a tight ass but he couldn't live forever.

I knew the manager of the Westwood Cemetery and he told me that the last wife told him that the Kennedys wouldn't pony up the money as promised, but the Kennedys said they knew nothing about this.. He said he believed them because Elizabeth Taylor said that she gave the wife the money, and it appears she spent it on other things.

Liked Peter in "Dead Ringer." He got to slap Bette Davis around a few times .

I remember him being a hairy mothereffer on AMC.

Man does this make me feel old. So Chris was the same age as his father when he died(61.)

I had Peter and his much younger girlfriend who he later married in F/C on a flight from LAX to ATL when I was a new flight attendant in 1983. I remember thinking he was so very, very old to be with a comparatively young woman. And now I am that same age. The only thing memorable about them was they were constantly going into the F/C lav together. Of course we assumed it was for sexual reasons, but after reading the comments here, I feel certain it was so they could do another bump.

He, I'm not forgotten you bitch!

I only knew him from 'Kiss Me, Guido', which I enjoyed. It's a shame that he died so young.

Susan Ford was working out at a gym when she had a heart attack at 53. Luckily, a doctor was there and brought her back.

R32 I don't understand 3 out of your 4 paragraphs.

R46 Heaven needed another Kennedy, because there are still too fucking many down here.

The Kennedy curse is real. RIP.

God needed another drunk yogi angel!

[quote]We'll have to hire detective Charlie Brent to investigate this death

Damn you, r17 for making me laugh on this dark day.

This actor makes me think of Chris Lemmon.

The scary-jawed Pat Kennedy was gaga over Lawford because he was a handsome Hollywood star, and he married her to get his hands on her money and get closer to the family, who were clearly going places. But he was a drunk and a druggie and a terrible husband ,and she was a terrible wife. They were miserable together.

Namaste

T&P.

I don't know the dad, but I remember Christopher from AMC. All these Kennedy's seem star-struck. From JFK and Marilyn to Connor Kennedy and Taylor's Swift. Now Maria Shriver (star struck herself) fixed her 28 year old daughter up with a 39 year old divorced father, Chris Pratt. They were and are all about celerity worship.

the pat lawford peter lawford marriage was more complicated than that. Pat was in love with Peter and he screwed everything that moved. It got to be too much for her and after 10 years or so of marriage and 4 kids they split. The story about Chris being in a separate apt as a baby is true. They lived on the beach in santa monica in a large house and Oat and Peter rented an apartment across the street for the baby and the nanny that took care of him.

Peter didnt go to Marilyn s house to clean it up. He was too drunk that saturday night and he was the last person to talk to Marilyn before she died. He knew something was wrong while on the phone as she lost consciousness towards the end of the call, but instead of calling an ambulance to go to her house he just kept drinking and passed out. When this info got to JFK the Kennedy s froze Peter out.

Oeters career started to tank as he got older and money became more and more of a problem. He was a hopeless drunk and alcoholic. 2 other tidbits...........he was very well endowed and also bisexual. For Chris money was something of a problem and his share of the Kennedy Trust was only $300k in total, there were just too many Kennedy kids of his generation and the only exception was John and Carolyn as their mother had worked out a better deal for them with Joe Kennedy 50 years earlier..........it wasnt until Chris s mothers death that he stopped having $ issues.

Wow, R81. Uh, how much have you had to drink tonight?

Oh another baby angel! Prayers to his parents, the grief of losing a child must be unbearable.

The co-op board at One Sutton Place would not allow Christopher to live with me.

R70, Same thing happened to Barney Frank. In many states, gyms are required by law to have a defibrillator on the premises and an employee who knows how to use it.

A big voice in the Recovery community. Sad day. O

Bikram yoga, right? Should be illegal.

You can definitely die from Bikram/hot yoga. I got really dizzy and felt like I couldn’t breath, the one time I tried it. It feels like you’re in hell.

Wasn't there a story some years ago about a Kennedy cousin dying in an Aspen skiing accident? There were rumors about alcohol and skiing backwards and then the story disappeared.

[quote]r31 No one really remembers Peter Lawford nowadays

What's to remember? Did he make even one decent movie?

[quote] Wasn't there a story some years ago about a Kennedy cousin dying in an Aspen skiing accident? There were rumors about alcohol and skiing backwards and then the story disappeared.

I think that was Michael Kennedy (one of RFK & Ethel's kids). I think he was the guy accused of playing around with his kid's babysitter.

Story was he and other Kennedys (Ethel was there I believe) were playing touch football on skies on the slopes and the Ski Patrol told them to stop.

But being Kennedys and thinking the rules were for someone else, they kept on.

And the dummy Michael crashed into a tree and was killed.

Curse? Nope.

Stupid. Yes.

Like flying a plane in poor visibility at night.

[quote]there were just too many Kennedy kids of his generation

These people breed like flies. There's just too damn many of them.

Catholics are like that....it's almost like the Church gives them a bonus for each new soul birthed for Christ.

his memoir included an insight of bill cosby pre rape charges. peter lawford drank himself to death. for a long while he was hiding out at hugh heffners home drinking and feeding squirrels until a sos was sent to chris.chris showed up to peel his dad off the guestroom floor and they decided to head out for a meal before leaving the ranch.

cosby walked by with some woman and sneered, 'look at that, that is peter lawford.isnt that pathetic?'

no compassion and arrogant.

lawford and david kennedy fell into drug addiction. older kids in their social circle were using and the younger kids including lawford and david kennedy were offered drugs and drink. they were experimenting with drugs at 13 years of age!

[quote]the younger kids including lawford and david kennedy were offered drugs and drink. they were experimenting with drugs at 13 years of age!

It all seems so sordid.

R90, I liked Peter Lawford in "Easter Parade" and "Royal Wedding."

Not a great singer, but handsome and charismatic.

"Easter Parade" features music by the great Irving Berlin, and would have you believe that Judy Garland would chose Fred Astaire over Peter!

Chris Lawford's memoir is great reading!

Very sad for him to pass on so young.

R94, effing Bill Cosby.

I liked him with Cecily on AMC. Who remembers their computer romance? She was "Clueless" and he was Beyond "Clueless"!

I was sad when they wrote him and Cecily off. I had always liked Cecily and thought they did not give her much of a chance on her second run. I would have been good with giving Charlie and Cecily a bit more time and less time on Hayley and Mateo.

Lucci seemed to like working with him.

That shirt's certainly doing him no favors.

So young!

And yet the totally pickled Joan Kennedy is still alive.

R105 She's still alive because she *is* "totally pickled." Just like Keith Richards.

Did he ever munch on LaLooch’s muff?

SEXY WITH BIG KENNEDY HORSE TEETHS

Re. Peter Lawford, Maureen O'Hara claimed he was arrested in a gay brothel in Australia when they were filming a movie together, but the incident was hushed up

Christopher is wicked handsome. The best of both his mom and dad.

His sisters are not as attractive as he.

R105, just as with cigarette smokers , you never know which alkies will survive.

I seem to remember that there was a story he told about discovering that his mother was moving to Europe and taking his sisters with her. Not him. Just the sisters.

Peter and Pat Lawford seem like feral parents, if that.

Pat Lawford was looking to divorce Peter as early as 1962, and was asked by JFK to wait until after the election.

She must have been REALLY miserable in that marriage; divorce was not all that common in the early 1960s, particularly for a Catholic.

The Kennedy women are always so plain and borderline homely...unless they’re marrying into the family. Except for Ethel who looks like a desiccated rabbit carcass.

R114, see , now I disagree. I found Jean and Pat to be quite pretty in their youth. They are not glamorous, but have lovely bone structure.

Eunice was quite lovely as well.

Livvie "Miss Melanie" de Havilland looks like French actress Sandrine Bonnaire in the photo at R96.

R114, oh come on. She has horse teeth, but otherwise is not so bad.

Was he as hairy as his Pa?

What was his body like? His dad had a decent body in his youth, save for his deformed hand.

R116, WTF ??????????

[quote]Lawford died in 1984, at age 61

He looked like he was well into his 70s.

I also found the Kennedy women to be quite handsome ladies. Kick was especially fetching. Jean, the rapist's mom was very attractive as well. She still looked pretty good at the time of her son's trial in PB.

Chris was a marrying fool, but his youngest sister Robin never married at all...

He had a fling with Liz when he was barely out of his teens and the same age as her sons.

Didn't Rose Kennedy disown Kick Kennedy when she got divorced? Never spoke to her again!

Rose disowned Kathleen for marrying a Protestant.

She was widowed a few months later when he shipped out for combat in WW2 France and committed suicide by German.

She next planned to marry a divorced man, but was killed with him in a plane crash before that could happen.

Liz fucked anybody. She was a ho.

R126, Rose forbid any of Kick's siblings to attend her wedding to the Protestant, but Joe, Jr. defied his mother and attended the ceremony.

R120, I see a resemblance between Olivia De Havilland (her youthful self!) and Sandrine Bonnaire.

The photo I chose is not great. Sorry.

"Symptoms of Withdrawal" is a good read, as I posted upthread.

I remember Chris writing about how Jackie O. asked him to spend time with her son, JFK Jr., as the youngster needed male role models in his life. Guess this was in the late 60s.

R122, indeed.

Rosemary was attractive too, to be honest.

R126, what does it mean to commit suicide by German?

I so appreciate that Chris Lawford is always honest about his background.

I feel the RFK kids always try to sugarcoat things. I mean, it's their right, to be sure, but Chris's brutal honesty is refreshing.

R124 Liz Taylor is rocking that denim jacket!

Lol, R122. That could be a nursery rhyme

Jean, Jean, the rapist's mom.....

etc. etc.

So Chris ate out Liz Taylor’s snatch? Yum!

The Kennedy sisters had square boxy heads.

From R137's link...

Obama awarded Ethel the "Presidential Medal of Freedom"????

WTF?

Ah yes, Ethel Kennedy!

A woman whose triumph in the face of tragedy is succeeded only by her proclivity to procreate!

She picks her nose.

R88 Is that the point of Bikram? You appreciate your life more if you make it through a class?

R91 Yeah the curse was more about poor choices - no bubble top on the car, going through an unsecured kitchen, trying to drive over an old bridge while drunk, etc.

R138 He also gave it to Ellen right? Also the making of 2008 Obama was when the Kennedys went with him over Hillary.

R143,, yes, you are correct.

Ted K. and Caroline K. went with Obama. Caroline had a huge op ed piece printed in the NYT

I think Kerry and Joe II stayed with HRC.

Why do you think Ted and and Caroline ditched HRC? Was it b/c they thought Obama would push universal healthcare through?

[quote]I feel the RFK kids always try to sugarcoat things. I mean, it's their right,

No it isn't. Don't be ridiculous, R133. Nobody has the right to re-write history to suit their elite family's fantasies of their own greatness.

R145, I meant sugarcoat their personal histories of substance abuse.

Those Kennedy frauds were hard faced fraus. Like repressed lesbian schoolteachers. Tight lipped and afraid to rub tacos.

R144 Honestly I think Obama represented the Kennedy "aura" more. He was younger than Clinton, an idealist rather than a pragmatist, more liberal. They looked at him and saw a really tan Jack and Bobby.

Since when is Ethel a "Kennedy sister?"

The next female named hurricane should be named "Hurricane Ethel."

[quote]Yoga is low impact and low stress.

Body parts can only move so many times in a lifetime so it's better to conserve.

R128 And look what happened to him.

His plane, loaded with explosives - sort of a flying bomb he was supposed to parachute out of before it got where it was going - blew up before it got there, with him in it.

Does anyone know if he was using during his AMC years?

[quote]Marilyn's ghost, out for blood

Nah. Marilyn's ghost got her revenge when JFK Jr. died in a plane crash. She probably received help in sabotaging the plane with help from the ghost of Mary Jo Kopechne.

[quote]Since when is Ethel a "Kennedy sister?"

Ethel probably felt that since poor lobotomized Rosemary was off living in convent in Wisconsin that she could somehow take her place as "Kennedy sister".

[quote]Wasn't there a story some years ago about a Kennedy cousin dying in an Aspen skiing accident? There were rumors about alcohol and skiing backwards and then the story disappeared.

I remember some press coverage for a couple of weeks. One story that was pushed in the media was that Rory "Horseteeth" Kennedy was performing CPR on Michael and crying over him. The Kennedys probably were ok with media coverage ending quickly on Michael's death. IIRC, Michael was still facing possible sexual assault charges at the time of his death.

[quote]The Kennedy Curse strikes again. Open top cars, kitchen shortcuts, bridges, planes, and now yoga studios.

What about me? I died in a health club at 51.

I remember Peter did a couple Bewitched episodes.

I know one of the Skakel cousins, and they all made fun of Eunice for her bad taste in clothes and general unkempt look. She would wear clothes with the tags still on and was a complete mess. And that was with help.

R35, and he looked like he was about 75...

R157, yes, the two Kennedy cousins (Kara and Chris) to die of "natural" causes, died while pursuing fitness/exercise.

The other three who died of unnatural causes were, of course, David K, Michael K, and JFK Jr.

David Kennedy was dating Rachel Ward up until his death in 1984.

Peter Lawford seemed like such a degenerate. He really threw it all away on booze and dope, huh?

I had forgotten about Kara Kennedy having died. How sad, only 51 years old, having suffered wit kung cancer at 42, and then to just die of a heart attach two years after Ted Kennedy's death. Now that I am 55 years old, dying at age 51 seems so sad, my best friend was that age when he died of cancer four years ago.

[quote]Rosemary was attractive too, to be honest.

I agree. There are some pictures where she looked prettier than the other sisters.

Elisabeth Moss is going to play Rosemary in an upcoming movie. Moss is replacing Emma Stone in the role. I think Stone looks more Rosemary than Moss does. I bet the Kennedys will probably do what they can to make the Rosemary biopic doesn't get massive attention like the Chappaquiddick movie.

Any family that had Rose Kennedy as the matriarch is bound to be screwed up. YouTube the interviews with her and watch a few. Her view of life is borderline certifiable.

Has anyone ever seen a photograph of Rose Kennedy pregnant? I realize it was a different era, but with 9 pregnancies you'd think there would be at least one candid photo.

Peter Lawford introduced Elizabeth to some used car salesman for drugs. She was doing drugs then too. Pills and booze. I think the guy's name was Henry Weinberg. I hate it that I know that shit. Peter Lawford's mother was and evil, over bearing bitch, insisted on being callled Lady Lawford and terrified the Hollywood moguls. She was a greedy grasping old thing. Full of pretensions. To escape her Peter would go to the beach and "hang out" with the cute boys...even after he started working in movies.

Peter LAwford was shoehorned into being straight. He fucked women because he had to, but was incline to gayness.

Why are some of you acting like having a heart attack while doing yoga is unimaginable.

People can have heart attacks in their sleep for Pete's sake.

You don't have to be running a marathon to have a coronary.

So was it hot box yoga or whatever?

R165, read C. Lawford's memoir, Symptoms of Withdrawal.

He talks a lot about his grandmother.

She was a very pious Roman Catholic. Not sure that makes her certifiable, though it does make her different from you and me.

R156, I always wondered about the timing of Michael Kennedy's death in that ski accident.

Not saying he skied into the tree on purpose, but that rape trial was going to be really painful for Michael and all of his kin.

R169, it is somewhat unusual in today's day and age for a very fit person such as C. Lawford to have a massive coronary.

R168, I have to disagree with you there.

I think Peter enjoyed the ladies very much.

R166, probably no pix of Rose. You couldn't even say the word "pregnant" back then; the preferred term was either "in a family way" or "expecting' or "enceinte."

I sure hope ole Rose got to see Demi Moore's famous 1991 Vanity Fair cover!

R173, fitness means nothing.

Exactly. I was friends with an attorney who ran marathons. He dropped dead at his desk and he was 42.

Food and anything else you might ingest (smoke, drugs, alcohol) trump exercise when it comes to overall health. Marathoners who drop dead i. their 40s probably had shitty diets.

Only the women live long in that family.

R173

No it's not. I'm blanking on the fit guru from that weight loss show.

He's gay, heavily tatt'd, blonde & hot. He had a massive coronary while at the gym & almost died.

His coronary was what they call The Widow Maker because it's so catastrophic. If his gym had not had a defibrillator & if he hadn't been life flighted be'd be dead.

He was on life support for days & hospitalized for an extended period.

That guy is a beast = eats extremely clean & fit as can be but MIs still happen.

Bob Harper

R180, Bob Harper.

[quote]Food and anything else you might ingest (smoke, drugs, alcohol) trump exercise when it comes to overall health. Marathoners who drop dead i. their 40s probably had shitty diets.

Unless you have congenital heart defect, then there might not be much diet can do if the heart is literally a ticking time bomb (esp. if it had been undetected and is not monitored).

R180, "Widowmaker" refers to a blockage in the LAD or Left Anterior Descending Artery.

I believe that an LAD blockage is what killed Tim Russert.

Re C. Lawford, perhaps his years of heroin abuse damaged his heart?

Ditto his having Hep C?

R179, yep. Teddy K. lived a fairly long life, all things considered.

From Wikipedia: "Widow maker

The widow maker is an alternate name for the anterior interventricular branch of the left coronary artery.[3][1] The name widow maker may also apply to the left coronary artery[4] or severe occlusions to that artery.[5][6]

This term is used because the left main coronary and/or the left anterior descending supply blood to large areas of the heart. This means that if these arteries are abruptly and completely occluded it will cause a massive heart attack that will likely lead to sudden death. The blockage that kills is made up of platelets streaming to the site of a ruptured cholesterol plaque. Even a small amount of plaque in this area can (for a variety of poorly understood reasons) rupture and cause death; bypassing chronic blockages or trying to open them up with angioplasty does not prevent heart attack but it can restore blood flow in case of a sudden blockage or heart attack and if performed within a rapid time period can minimize the damage done. An example of the devastating results of a complete occlusion of the LAD artery was the sudden death of former NBC News Washington Bureau Chief Tim Russert,[7] as well as the near-death of film director Kevin Smith.[8]

From the minute a widow maker heart attack hits, survival time ranges from minutes to several hours. Rapidly progressing symptoms should signal the need for immediate attention. Symptoms of initial onset may include nausea, shortness of breath, pain in the head, jaw, arms or chest, numbness in fingers, often of a novel but imprecise sensation which builds with irregular heart beat. Early symptoms may be mistaken for food poisoning, flu or general malaise until they intensify. A widow maker cannot kill instantly but induces cardiac arrest which may do so within 10 to 20 minutes of no circulation. A victim with no pulse or breath is still alive, living off oxygen stored in the blood and may be able to be rescued if treatment is begun promptly within this window.[9] "

Mick Jagger, Keith Richards, Eric Clapton - all major druggies for years at one point, at least. Do you think they watched what they ate? Drank like fish as well, smoked. Teddy was a well documented alcoholic who also loved cocaine for a time and certainly didn't give two shits about diet and exercise. I think some of these uber fitness folks who die from heart attack push the envelope to the extreme, dying for putting too much strain on the heart.

My great-grandfather lived to be around 105, smoked his entire life, never had huge health problems. My grandfather is now 90 - smoked much of his life, never had huge health problems. My father is 64, never smoked and he had open heart-surgery in his early 50s. He has bad health, but you wouldn't know it from looking at him - his mother died in her 40s.

It's genetics.

Bob Harper

Thank you! His name escaped me. That man was in prime physical condition & lived a very healthy lifestyle.

That's when I think family medical history can play a factor.

R188

You can take Jagger off that list. He may have used drugs way back in the day but he's been a health nut for about 25 years.

He runs 6 miles every day & has for years.

I personally think Mick would be healthier if he gained some weight.

"Genetics loads the gun. Lifestyle pulls the trigger."

[quote]r171 She was a very pious Roman Catholic. Not sure that makes her certifiable, though it does make her different from you and me.

Um...invisible friends??

Has Slee released a statement yet?

He was quite handsome, who looked better as he got older. Sad..

R188, R189...very interesting discussion.

How about Frank McCourt's dad? As alcoholic as any alcoholic ever was....and the man lived to his mid eighties.

R195, Christopher was gorgeous. Much more handsome than any of his RFK cousins!

Jim Fixx, best selling author of a book on running, died of a heart attack while running at age 52.

Jack Kelly, Olympic rower and brother of Grace, died of a heart attack while running at age 57.

Rose Kennedy probably had a fucked up view of life because of her life. Became a baby dispenser, husband cheated on her, disabled child, husband turned disabled child into a vegetable without telling her, then she watched several of her children die over a few decades, husband's stroke, Teddy and that bridge fucking with the family name, her grandkids dying from drug overdoses or on trial for rape, though that was at the end of her life.

Surprised she didn't end up in an institution herself. The Catholic belief in God's plan was strong in that one.

Rose Fitzgerald was fucked up early on. Her father, Honey Fitz, was the legendary Mayor of Boston and as big a philandering womanizer as Joe Kennedy became. She may have popped out the 9 Kennedy kids, but her raising them was limited, there were nannies galore. Rose traveled a lot, would visit Europe for weeks at a time to shop, leaving Joe and the brood at home.

R200, well, I am glad Rosie got her revenge on her cheating spouse by enjoying her life a little.

John Kennedy said told one of his good friends that he never had a loving moment with his mother. She never held him, hugged him, cared for him. Never expressed any affection. Even when he was a very sick child. He said she was totally cold to her children. Nanny's or nurse's cared for the children. It was all about religion for her. He said his father did show love for his children.

[quote]So was it hot box yoga or whatever?

It was fart box yoga.

Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy was accepted to Wellsley College in like 1908, but her father refused to permit her to attend. What'd she get instead? A secondary Catholic education for a few years in a French Convent - no, seriously. There ya go....

There used to be an ex Nun who left the convent to marry and have a child, and she lived across the street from me years ago. After finding out that her husband had died back then, I moved close to her to give her a hug, and that woman looked at me like I was about to stab her 75 times. I acknowledged and obeyed "Sorry for your loss" and left her be.

Ethel had even more babies than Rose! Eleven (!!) to Rose's nine.

Man, that is a lot of babies.

Fucking roman catlicks breed like goddamn mice.

[quote]And yet the totally pickled Joan Kennedy is still alive.

Joan is probably hanging on so she can hopefully outlive clown car Ethel.

Just before he left on his fatal bombing mission, Joe, Jr. placed a call to the family home in Hyannis. A cousin answered and told Joe the family was not at home. Joe ended the call by instructing his cousin to "Tell my father I love him . . .". He never mentioned Rose.

Wow. Rose Kennedy could have lived at home while attending Wellesley. Did he just not think it "fitting" for young ladies to be educated? And, FWIW, my Irish Catholic grandmother, who came from money and was about the same age, was allowed to leave town to attend a ladies college. She left to marry before graduation, but she was allowed to study art away from home.

When Rose Kennedy was 90, she underwent surgery for a bowel obstruction in 1980. Because of her age, the surgeon didn't want her to have a general anesthetic. He directed the hospital's chief of anesthesia to give her a spinal. She was awake during the procedure with a screen placed between her and her abdomen so that she couldn't see the operative field. The anesthesiologist didn't have much to do so after talking to her and determining that she was comfortable, he asked if there was anything else he could do. She said "I have a hairdresser's appointment at 9:15 this morning. Would you call and cancel?"

When she was recuperating, the director of the hospital stopped in to ask how she was doing and if there was anything she needed. She said she'd like a copy of "The Pilot," the Catholic Archdiocese of Boston's newspaper. It was a nominally Baptist hospital associated with the Lahey Clinic where the Kennedys went for years - Teddy spent months there recuperating from a plane crash in the early 1960's - and the director had no idea what it was, but found out soon enough. He arranged to have one delivered in a taxi and then brought it to her room, saying proudly, "Here you are. I've gotten you a copy of The Pilot." She said, "Good. Now sit down and read it to me." And he did...

Teddy was running for President then. He only visited her once while she was recuperating and then a second time when he flew in on the day she was discharged so he could be seen on TV wheeling her out the front door of the hospital. They drove away and Ted's driver took him to Logan to get on a plane then the limo took her home to the Kennedy Compound in Hyannisport. Following her discharge, the hospital sent nurses down to Hyannis to check on how well her surgical wound was healing , change the dressings, etc. - a quick, 20 or 30 minute visit. The housekeepers would beg them to stay, offering steaks, lobster - anything - just to have someone besides Rose to talk to. She was there pretty much all alone in the winter.

She wasn't completely ga-ga by then but headed in that direction...

[quote]well, I am glad Rosie got her revenge on her cheating spouse by enjoying her life a little.

In a way, I'm glad too. She was a cunt to her kids. But, I don't blame her for wanting some revenge especially since Joe was fucking Gloria Swanson.

Too bad Jackie, Joan, and Ethel didn't try similar revenge tactics their cheating husbands. There was gossip for a period in the 70s, Joan would get drunk and call up journalist Myra MacPherson with claims that Teddy had been fucking Rosemary Keough on the night of the Chappaquiddick incident and that Mary Jo Kopechne was asleep or passed out when the accident happened.

My mother was a version of Rose. Extremely Catholic Irish - the religion was more important than anything else in the world. Any intimate or sexual contact was frowned upon and threatening. Wound tight, virginal behavior, highly judgmental and demanding, more concerned with social appearances and child’s success than love. Deeply damaged and unhappy underneath.

Wasn't Michael Kennedy(the skiing babysitter rapist) married to Kathy Lee's step daughter? I seem to remember how insufferable KLG was on R&KL when the wedding was about to go down. Little Vickie was marrying American royalty!

And just to add to what was well said already re: genetics v lifestyle and aging. I agree that a healthier lifestyle can help those with bad genetics make the most of what they inherited; but I believe in my bones that 100 years from now, it will have been established that, back in the olden days of the 20th century before it was determined that cancer was a completely genetically inherited condition, so many people died of so many varieties of the now survivable malady.

If you inherit the gene, all the clean eating in the world will not save you. Ask Steve Jobs.

[quote]Ethel had even more babies than Rose! Eleven (!!) to Rose's nine.

But I guarantee you Rose had a few miscarriages that we don't know about.

Ethel was just another version of Rose. She had a nanny raising all those 11 kids.

R216 Given their various delinquencies, I don't think anyone raised those kids. Fucking wolves would have done a better job.

Chris's death has already been added to the Kennedy curse wikipedia page.

When his dad died his mom invited the National Enquirer to photograph her dumping his ashes in the ocean.

R214 Yes, he was. His widow never remarried. Maybe he put her off men forever?

R219, no, not his mom. That was his dad's third or fourth wife. Google is your friend.

R220, well I can't speak for his widow personally, but the SSA provides a disincentive for widows to remarry!

R214, I don't think Regis and Kathie Lee were on the air when Michael Kennedy married Victoria.

You must be thinking about her gushing about Cody and Cassidy?

[quote]r200 Rose traveled a lot, would visit Europe for weeks at a time to shop, leaving Joe and the brood at home.

And that's where I came in - -

[quote]r210 my Irish Catholic grandmother, who came from money and was about the same age, was allowed to leave town to attend a ladies college.

Whore.

r224, We had faces!

[quote]r221 When Rose Kennedy was 90, she underwent surgery for a bowel obstruction.

Too much butt sex?

R211, If Rose was somewhat ga-ga in 1980, think what the following 15 years must have been like.

[quote]r211 [the doctor]arranged to have one delivered in a taxi and then brought it to her room, saying proudly, "Here you are. I've gotten you a copy of The Pilot." She said, "Good. Now sit down and read it to me."

Did she know how to read?

Maybe that missed college education would have come in helpful.

Every year on her birthday, one of Rose's children would wheel her out onto the Hyannis lawn for a photo op. The Boston Globe never failed to run a photo on their front page. The woman could not even keep her head raised and her tongue would be hanging out of her mouth like a perspiring dog.

Back in the day when I was a Kennedy "true believer" (a very, very long time ago) I used to read a lot of the books written about the family.

I remember one written by the nurse that cared for old Joe toward the end of his life.

Some bits and pieces I remember

(1) Rose came into the house once very upset to discover some "nice" cars parked behind their house. When she was informed that they were the cars of their employees, she wondered how they could afford cars so "nice".

(2) Apparently, Rose was a tightwad, once appearing suddenly and berating an employee for leaving on the light in the linen closet. When it was explained that the light worked on the same principle as the one in the fridge, going off when the door was shut, Rose stepped inside the closet and closed the door to test it.

(3) The nurse wrote that she remembered before Chappaquiddick happened, that Teddy was notorious in the family for having a very bad sense of direction. It was not unheard of for him to get lost on roads that should have been familiar to him. Once, when she and old Joe were riding in the car with Ted driving, Ted had to stop and admit to his father that he was lost. His father sort of laughed and pointed out the way to go. She said that she did not find it at all hard to believe that he made the turn onto the wrong road when he went off the bridge.

Beats me how I still remember this stuff, but whatever.

All I remember about Rose was how there would be yearly/biannually photos of her swimming in the ocean. Even when it was nippy.

This was when she was like in her early 80s for pity's sake.

When Joe took his stroke, the staff alerted Rose and suggested that medical assistance be called. Rose told them not to call anyone, just let him "sleep it off" with a nap. Rose then proceeded to play golf and upon her return, when his condition had worsened, only then was medical assistance summoned.

Rose Fitzgerald sounded like a real monster and religio-loony!

I'm glad she wasn't my mother.

She also horced her rebelious daughter Rosemary to have an unnecessary labotomy, practically turning her into a vegetable.

R235, Seriously?

Excuse me, but didn't Eunice Shriver look something like a trans person?

[quote]r236 Seriously?

Yup. She did.

LEAVE EUNICE A L OOOOOOOONE!

R223 You are correct. They married in 1981. I suppose I just heard KLG bragging in a general way about her very loose and tangential relationship to the Kennedy family. Their last child was born after R&KL went on the air, so perhaps that event caused her to drool over the blessed event.

Frank Saunders, Barbara Gibson - e employee s of Rose who wrote books on her. Read them. Hilarity ensues!

I thought it Joe Sr. who ordered the lobotomy for Rosemary.

I knew Chris and he was a very nice guy. Heavy drug use in your teens to thirties does irreparable damage to your heart and people die years later after a long time of being sober. I went to Cuba with a group and Chris was included. He told me that the Kennedy's were warned by a French Journalist that there was a plot to kill President Kennedy and they ignored it.

R242, It was.

[quote]r242 I thought it Joe Sr. who ordered the lobotomy for Rosemary.

If Rose didn't know, it's because she didn't want to know. Which is just as bad.

Nothing got past this harridan:

r244 What about Mama Rose not letting any of the other kids visit Rosemary, or even know she was alive, for the next 20 years?

PEOPLE MAGAZINE 09/14/15:

[quote]After the secret surgery, it would be another two decades – after Joe became incapacitated by a severe stroke in 1961 – before any of Rosemary’s eight siblings would learn the truth about their sister’s disappearance: she was living at a Catholic facilty for the mentally disabled in Jefferson, Wisconsin, hidden from public view.

I loved Peter Lawford, because he was really cute.

Who would've won in a Barbara Bush vs. Rose Kennedy throwdown?

It's the First Annual CUNT-OFF!

Please check out this video.

Peter Lawford's French was pretty darn good.

Like how he calls Pat, "Babe."

[quote]r248 Who would've won in a Barbara Bush vs. Rose Kennedy throwdown? It's the First Annual CUNT-OFF!

Rose was undoubtedly the bigger bitch, attitude wise. But Barb was bigger physically and could have just sat on her.

Barb would have frightened Rosie with her thyroid-condition eyes.

Don't mean to defend Rosie, but she was born in 1890. That's practically Victorian times.

For her to be such a bitch, there must have been bitchery in her upbringing.

Thankfully we're not completely products of our upbringing.

Rose had a choice. She chose the path more bitchy.

[quote]Peter Lawford's French was pretty darn good.

I taught him everything he knew.

1890 WAS "Victorian times".

The Victorian era ended with Queen Victoria's death in 1901.

She brought the GLAMOUR!

Geez -- what story do you tell kids to explain the disapperance of a grown sibling?

R253, that could be the story of a new Lifetime movie,

"The Path More Bitchy - The Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy Story"

Sorry, Rosie -- just trying to make my pals at DL laugh!

Sorry, I meant to say,

The TITLE of a new Lifetime movie

R254, June, dear, when it comes to french, I am the expert.

Rose Kennedy was a woman of her times and upbringing. Her religion and her several years long stay with the nuns in France certainly influenced her greatly. She was sent there to learn to be a good Catholic wife. It's not widely known, but I've read in several books that she actually left Joe Kennedy ONCE while pregnant with her fourth child, Kathleen. She went home to her parents for two or three weeks because of Joe's philandering ways, leaving her first three kids in the care of the help. Honey Fitz eventually prevailed upon her that she belonged in her own home with her own family, essentially demanding her return. He advised her that whatever it was she needed whether it be more help or more time to herself or whatever, then she should get it to satisfy her own needs and that's exactly what she did. She was partly to blame for Joe's straying as she believed that sex was for procreation only. This was a woman who was taught by the nuns to hang her stockings over the back of a chair in the bedroom as a sign to her husband that it was permissible to approach her sexually that night to procreate. Once she was pregnant. sexual intercourse came to a screeching halt every time. I also read that Joe once told her "Listen, Rose, this idea of yours that there's no romance outside of procreation is plain wrong and if you don't change your ways, I'm going to tell the priest on you!" Joe had begun the custom with the first born to gift Rose a special piece of jewelry at the birth of each child. After Teddy was born in 1932, she told him "My jewelry box is full, and I will need no new pieces again." And that was it. She was done with sex for good. Joe did what a man is inclined to do in response.

R261, now just a cotton picking minute!

You say that Rose may have been to blame for Joe's straying?

But did Joe ever try to get Rose in the mood for sex or take care of her needs in the bedroom?

I doubt he played his Barry White album to get her in the mood. I am kidding, of course, but am serious about the larger point that I am making.

Furthermore, I think I read that Joe was very indiscreet with his affairs which was quite hurtful to Rose.

Does anyone think Joe ever went down on Rose?

Tell us more, R243! What else did he spill about the Kennedys?

Well, if the accounts given by a few of his "side pieces" are to be believed, then Ole Joe was "in it" both figuratively and literally for the contact and intimacy. Unlike his son, JFK, his approach to sex was NOT as a dog going around pissing on fire hydrants. He engaged leisurely, insisting that sex was supposed to be fun and interesting (Janet Des Rosiers, The Sins of the Father, a biography). Rose, on the other hand, was taught that sex was a wifely duty to be endured for the sake of producing children. It is well know that she cut him off utterly each time she became pregnant. I certainly wouldn't suggest that Joe would have remained faithful had Rose capitulated on a regular basis, but her refusing him his marital right did not help matters, obviously. Rose was not the victim everyone takes her as being. She was well aware of his proclivity for women, and she was fine with it. He even had his women in the house while Rose was there as well. If she had cut him off sexually from the very first pregnancy as a matter of course, then what's a horny young guy craving physical/emotional intimacy supposed to do? By all accounts, they were a mismatch as sexual partners.

Here's a pic showing Janet kneeling right in front of Rose. Rose knew the deal.

28 year old Rose with Joe, Jr and infant Jack: "SAY MAMA ONE MORE GODDAMNED TIME!" haha

Ah, but here we see a very nice pic of Rose and Joe Kennedy together looking quite content and happy to be in each other's company. It's rare to see such an image of them. These were all very complicated people leading very complicated lives. Their arrangement worked for them as such an arrangement was tolerated by countless other couples of the era. "Til death we do part" applies in this case.

Dear R264 Chris had very little money and didn't expect any until his Mother died. He said the Kennedy's were not as rich as people thought and as there were so many of them, the trusts were relatively small. Their biggest asset was the Merchandise Mart in Chicago. He also said Jacqueline was the richest because Joe Kennedy paid her to stay with Jack when he was running for President. Also, Onassis gave her a lot of money during their marriage because being married to her made a lot of problems he had with the US Government go away. Also, Joe Kennedy gave her $100,000 to buy the apartment at 1040 Fifth Ave which was $240,000 in 1964. Onassis, who she began to see while JFK was alive gave her the difference. He also was very jealous of JFK Jr.

^The Merchandise Mart sold 20 years ago for $625M. The old man paid $15M for it 50 years earlier. That's one HELL of a return! Joe Kennedy set up a million dollar trust for each grandchild at the time of his/her birth. Kennedy money ALWAYS stayed in trust. Chris may not have had access to the fortune, itself, but that fortune paid him an income and a comfortable one at that, I'm sure. It was determined that in the 1950s, the two trusts which Joe set up for himself and Rose were paying them $500k each year in 1950s dollars! No one will ever know the complexities of the money maze Joe established, but I know that family remains rich, rich, rich!

And Rose was one cheap bitch. Didn't heat her pool or maintain the houses. They were all broken down for decades.

The Kennedy fortune (and it remains a huge fortune) has maintained and increased it's wealth by the use of trusts, a policy initially started by old Joe Kennedy.

It's only when someone in the family is required to release their financial information, such as Caroline becoming Ambassador or Christopher running for office, that some details emerge.

This article gives some idea...

This article about Joe Sr and trusts is focused on the mechanics of how the trusts continue to protect and increase their fortune.

Filthy rich.

From the LA Times, 2009, about the Kennedy fortune and trusts.

I knew a family in Boston that made their money in East India and China in around 1840 - 1850, and the fortune is still going strong. I'd always heard fortunes disappear with the third generation unless someone does something (such as marrying other tich people) but I was always sad that I couldn't ask how they did it. I had a couple of clues - they made use of schemes and law as with the Kennedys, but most of that happened while the Kennedys we're still barkeeps, and a look at mid-19th century wealth building would have been interesting beyond learning the Merchandise Mart was just an update on owning docks and warehouses.

R268, to Chris Lawford's claim that he had very little money, I say

"Boo Frickin' Hoo!"

R268, Jackie also did very well because her companion Maurice Tempelsman invested her money very wisely.

That whore also milked every last nickel she could out of Aristotle Onassis' ancient cock, even after he died.

Cristina Onassis finally threw money at her and said, "Make that woman go AWAY."

I keep remembering a story I read where I think Christopher used to borrow money from his father even when the father was in trouble financially. One day, Peter was shocked to see a check that Christopher received as his most recent payment from the Kennedy money. The check was for multiples of $100,000. (Sorry, I can't remember the exact amount, I think it might have been as much as $700,000. I just can't be sure.)

This story might have been in one of those books about Peter in his last days or Christopher when he was on drugs.

I also feel it was in bad taste for Jackie to pose for so many nude pictures. Did she need the money THAT badly???

R279, lolol.

I think I read that Ari Onassis set her up. Told the paps that she would be changing at such and such a time and place.

Let's predict the next Kennedy to be taken out by the curse.

My pick is Maria Shriver dying in some kind of accident in 2020.

Chris is not an example of the curse.

He never died of an O.D.

He passed on at a sort of advanced age.

R278 - it wasn't Chris. It was one it RFK's sons who had been thrown out of the house by Ethel and showed up on Peter's doorstep.

Lawford was pretty in '47 but he sold himself to the Catholic Kennedy Booze-hounds and Pussy-hounds

R280 Husband's barely dead and she's flashing her ass at the camera, trying to drum up business...

Those types make me sick.

Shut up, R285.

YOU shut up.

Girls girls -- you're both perverse.

Thanks R268! Interesting to know that the fortune didn’t make everyone in the family independently wealthy.

R279, The Bouvier bush!

Shameless....

There are a lot of nude pictures of her on the Internet, from when she'd get drunk at parties and stuff.

Caroline went with Obama, because the Kennedy dynasty was fading and she did not want to see any other family take that dynasty title away. Obama was also hipper and more attractive. The Clintons were older.

Chris's Wilkipedia said he auctioned s Picasso for ten million...

Yoga bad

R279

Who knew Jackie had such a banging fit body? Not me.

Later, Jackie said if she knew she was going to die so young, she wouldn't have done so many sit-ups

In one of the biographies written about her, SOMEONE gave an account of having lunch with Jackie in one of the swanky NYC eateries - it may have been The Russian Tea Room or La Cote Basque. This was after she had received her diagnosis/prognosis, but not yet told the cancer was a hopeless case - somewhere in between. He wrote that after the meal, the waiter brought around the dessert cart and she told him to just leave it there next to the table. He wrote "She said that she was going to eat EVERY dessert on that cart and if anyone attempted to stop her, then she'd stab them in the hand with her fork. And she did just that. She ate every dessert on that cart." Good for her, eh?

Thanks for Jackie story. Her life was too short. I'm glad she indulged.

Is La Cote Basque still there?

R299 No and I don't think it was ever "reborn" elsewhere as the French dinos sometimes are.

"Who knew Jackie had such a banging fit body? Not me"

Not really. She has the chest of a ten-year-old boy.

JFK probably fucked Marylin Monroe because of her big tits unlike Jackie's almost flat chest.

Banging fit body = cigarettes.

But yes, Jackie totally rocked the Mary Tyler Moore skinny look of the seventies

R293, I have to think that Caroline went with the Obama because her Uncle Ted told her to.

What do you think Rose K. said when she saw the photos of Jackie O in the buff?

She was seem furiously masterbating by an underpaid servant.

Having a great body isn't always about the boobs.

My comment referred to what a great ass she had (after 2 kids ), & her slender legs & flat stomach.

R305, actually I think I read somewhere that Rose Kennedy laughed goodnaturedly when she saw or heard about the nude Jackie Kennedy photos.

Rose knew that an unscrupulous pap was at work and that it wasn't Jackie's fault.

Jackie bore four children: stillborn daughter (Arabella?), Caroline, John Jr., and Patrick.

R292, that's clearly fake. Jackie would never wear such a ghastly top.

Looking at her pic @R277, she looks to be part fish.

jackie o was very disciplined about her weight and her diet but she was a greedy girl who aspired to to have the kind of wealth bunny mellon had, money was her drug of choice.

in his memoir, lawford admitted to having a boyhood crush on jackie o. he wrote jackie made an effort to include caroline and jfk jr in the kennedy family birthday and holiday celebrations. the kennedys sound like a rowdy, tiresome bunch.

[quote]the kennedys sound like a rowdy, tiresome bunch.

Shocking. You never expect that from Irish Catholics.

Jackie lost her virginity in a Paris elevator, thanks to a man she was dating and considered marrying, until her mother Janet had him vetted and learned he wasn't as wealthy as he claimed.

Christopher wrote in his autobiography that Jackie was the first female he ever saw naked. As a teen, he would spend time with JFK, Jr. and one day at the 1040 Fifth Avenue apartment, Chris walked in on a bare-assed Aunt Jackie.

[quote]r314 Jackie lost her virginity in a Paris elevator, thanks to a man she was dating and considered marrying, until her mother Janet had him vetted and learned he wasn't as wealthy as he claimed.

I heard that....but I thought it was to the elevator operator (?)

R426 here. Sorry, wrong thread!

R305 Rose actually said to Jackie "I told you that you were going to get caught."

R314 The man Jackie lost her virginity to was named John Marquandt, Jr. He was a young writer. The man Janet had vetted and deemed unsuitable marriage material for lack of wealth was young stock broker John Husted.

[quote] Chris walked in on a bare-assed Aunt Jackie.

Thank God that never happened to us!

I wonder if Chris ever crushed on drunk Aunt Joan. I doubt he ever liked Aunt Ethel aka Catholic Clown Car.

He walked in on Ethel picking her nose.

No idea if it's true, but I loved this story...

When old Joe Kennedy was close to death, Rose called Jackie from Hyannis and told her Joe wasn't well and asked if Jackie could come to visit him. Jackie said, "You know I'd do anything for Joe, Rose, but it's a difficult time for me to travel. I'm here in bed in New York with hepatitis."

Either Rose's hearing or the connection wasn't perfect. She held on to the handset for a moment and then said, "Hepatitis? Is that the name of the Greek you married?"

^Haha - funny. If you care to know what actually happened: All the children, including the in-laws were told to haul ass back to the cape in his final days. When Joe was only minutes from death, the chauffer Frank Saunders, rang a loud bell from the big house porch alerting the family in their own homes. Jackie came sprinting from her house across the joining yards. Rose held his hand as their children huddled near with the in-laws in the outer area of the room. Rose cried as did the others.

We all know old Joe by his ruthless reputation and deservedly so. However, he was still someone's husband and father and his family loved him greatly. He was a business man - a MONEY man, and as such he lived and thrived in the world of eat or be eaten.

R323 I believe this is what happened. Rose may have been a cold fish but Joe loved his kids and they apparently loved him.

R323, I remember reading the book by the woman who was old Joe's nurse.

What you describe is what I remember happened per her book.

They had some loud alarm rigged up to let the family know when the time was near.

And I remember the nurse's description of looking out the window and seeing Jackie racing across the lawn toward the house when the alarm sounded.

^Yes. I speak/type truth and fact.

The death alarm couldn't ring for Chrissy Lawford but you know Ethel will want it to sound for her.

R325 I always thought Joe died before JFK became president.

Joe JUNIOR died in WW2. Old Joe had a stroke in 1961 after he'd bought the presidency for JFK. He lived for almost 8 more years, though.

Which Kennedy does the red-headed congressman belong to?

I've liked him every time I've heard him speak.

Son of Joseph P. Kennedy II, grandson of Bobby of Bobby and Ethel.

He was on AMC, he was a drug user.

Since he died in British Columbia, I assume there are many procedures that have to be completed before he is sent home.

But will they ring for Chrissy Metz, R327?

Old Joe died a few months after the Chappaquiddick scandal. Several people said that Ted told them he in a way killed his father because Old Joe stopped eating and his condition went downhill after that.

[quote]r324 [R323] I believe this is what happened. Rose may have been a cold fish but Joe loved his kids and they apparently loved him.

Well, except the one he and Rose gave a labotamy to.

She didn't know where the hell she was for the rest of her "life".

R336 too true...she was probably at the most ambivalent.

Rose didn't attend Kick's funeral and claimed that she was ill. Joe Sr. did attend the funeral.

R333, The Kennedy family is still powerful enough to override that. Coretta King died in a Mexico clinic, but the King family got her body back to Atlanta pronto.

I don't think Chris was one of the important Kennedys and they might not care to get his body back in the US right away. If Caroline died in another country then they would be doing what they can to her body back.

Chris Lawford was as much a Kennedy as one of the Shrivers. Kennedys take care of their own.

Chris did have a low key crush on his Aunt Joan, he empathized with her and understood Joan ,as many others have , to be too sensitive to endure the brutally rowdy Kennedy clan. The Kennedy endured a ruthless spotlight on their family and were similarly brutally competitive with one another. He implied her substance abuse was a coping mechanism to the ruthless and relentless scrutiny the Kennedy family embraced,.

Lawford identified Ethel as a harsh, idiosyncratic task master, he had a few scraps with Ethel growing up which he tactfully identified as his fault.

Lawford purposefully omitted an index from his memoir because he wrote his family would only read the portions of the book that included their specific entry!

R342

On of Ethel's daughters did a documentary on her mom. It's was in the last couple of years.

Ethel didn't come off as harsh or cold from the kids' perspective.

It's a really good doc if you can find it.

^Here it is:

Ethel is a pig that barely raised her kids. She dropped out 11 like taking a dump and at least 2 are dead. Ethel left everything to a revolving parade of nannies and housekeepers.

Most rich women use nannies, that hardly makes her a "pig"

R345

Anybody who have 11 kids is going to need help. I don't fault her for having help in the least.

She had a long term housekeeper that the kids adored. Ethel supposedly hated her and wanted to fire her. All the kids objected.

It's that Skakel blood. Even as kids the Skakels were supposedly wild. And the eldest brother was a piece of work who Bobby Kennedy was supposedly afraid of.

11 children is a hell of a lot for one woman to deal with every day. Add to that the fact that the oldest of them came of age in the psychedelic latest 60's and 70's drug culture. The boys were wild as hawks. Add to all this the need to project a certain image because of who they were/are. Ethel should have gone totally nuts. She seems like a nice lady in the documentary. It's easy for folks to sit on the sidelines and judge. Easy. And stupid. She's okay in my book. Me? I'd have skipped town for good.

[quote]Ethel is a pig that barely raised her kids. She dropped out 11 like taking a dump and at least 2 are dead. Ethel left everything to a revolving parade of nannies and housekeepers.

After Bobby's death, Ethel offered Mary Jo Kopechne a job as a governess for the kids. Kopechne turned it down as she wanted to continue to working in politics.

Ethel was cheap and known for not paying her bills.

One Datalounger sometime back related that gas station attendants in her area would see her pull in and before putting any gas in her car would ask

[quote] Got any cash today, Mrs. Kennedy?

Filthy rich (from the Skakel side as well as Kennedy money) and cheats working people out of their due.

Cheap bitch Rose must have loved Ethel.

Ethel believed she should get everything for free because she was a Kennedy. Fuck her.

Jackie used to write checks knowing people wouldn't cash them in order to have her autograph.

[quote]r348 It's that Skakel blood. Even as kids the Skakels were supposedly wild. And the eldest brother was a piece of work who Bobby Kennedy was supposedly afraid of.

Is he the one who was the rapist/murderer?

R355 yes. And what do you expect from a documentary made by her daughter? Mother Teresa? There have been numerous accounts of Ethel and her shit behavior. She neglected many of her children. David would probably be alive if she showed him more love and got him proper treatment. Not saying it’s easy having 11 children but even if Bobby would have lived he could’nt have done all the parenting alone.

I meant Mother Teresa she ain’t ^^^.

Why does Bobby Kennedy Jr have such an abnormal voice?

It didn't use to be that way.

I saw him on TV yesterday & it was very distracting.

R358, Over the years, RFK, Jr. has ingested every drug known to mankind.

RFK, Jr has spasmodic dysphonia, a specific form of an involuntary movement disorder called dystonia that affects only the voice box. One of the sisters has it as well, Courtney.

Back in the day, if Ethel took a cab home to Hickory Hill, she would try to stiff the driver, telling him he should feel privileged to have driven her home.

If she purchased a designer dress for an event, she would make an assistant return it after wearing it, even though it had obviously been worn.

R360

His sister has it too?

What causes it?

I question the judgement of anyone who chooses to have eleven children. It is an unwise thing to do.

Ethel used to brag that she had more kids than Rose, like it was a badge of honor. I don't care how great of a mother you are (and she wasn't much of one), it's impossible to give enough attention to that many kids. Especially when they are entitled and have access to money.

Well they murdered me so...

I appreciate the Kennedy's more than most. Have read just about every book about them.

I never liked Ethel Kennedy, I still don't.

Bobby Kennedy never would have run for President, if not for Ethel. She pushed him really hard to do it. She wanted to "show Jackie" that they too could be President and First Lady. Most of Bobby's advisors did not want him to run. He wanted to contribute and speak out but the thought he could do it as a Senator. Ethel wanted the Presidency real bad.

R366, so have I. And I'm friends with one of Ethel's nieces who lives in LA. I've got some great stories, but can't post them unfortunately.

R358, and while we are on the subject of voices, Bill Clinton's voice sounds mighty weak these days.

What's up with that?

R355

[quote] Is he the one who was the rapist/murderer?

No.

Michael Skakel was convicted of the murder of Martha Moxley. Michael is the son of Rushton Skakel who is Ethel Skakel Kennedy's brother.

I think Rushton Skakel was the brother of Ethel that Bobby Kennedy was supposedly afraid of.

Ethel was one of seven siblings.

Sure you can, R367.

Was Rushtin one of those funny uncles?

I can't imagine how dry and saggy Ethel's vag is. She must wear spanks so the beef curtains don't show below her hemline.

That's SPANX, R373.

Why are you so concerned with E's privates?

One of the most graphic descriptions of Ethel's parenting style was in a book by right-winger David Horowitz ('The Kennedys: An American Drama'). This is because Horowitz glommed onto Bobby Jr., hanging out with him, and Jr was the most troublesome of Ethel's children.

[quote} Don't forget Arlene Francis. They got her, too.

That was Dorothy Kilgallen, dear.

I once hired an Irish student studying furniture design who had worked for Pat Lawford in Hyannis the summer before. These Irish students were basically slaves, but surprisingly not made to sign non-disclosures. She said Pat was fall-down drunk every day, all day. Pat never knew any of the girls' names and would just yell out "Girl?" to seek something. One weekend the house was full of celebrities, but exactly whom the Irish girl couldn't name since they were just fancy Americans to her. They sat around Pat's house ready 100 copies of Vanity Fair's Kennedy issue, which she thought bizarre.

"They...are all about celerity worship."

Yes, R80, always been a fast crowd.

Why is the very sick, right wing, Nazi party on this thread?