Why are there more gay men than lesbians?

It's a well known fact that men are more variable than women when it comes to both physical and psychological characteristics. There are more male geniuses and retards, more male dwarves and giants, more male autists, sociopaths, lefties, etc. It makes sense that men should be more variable when it comes to sexual orientation as well, and consequently more gay men would exist than lesbians. I believe there would also be more male than female bisexuals if society treated both groups equally, instead of celebrating bi women and marginalizing bi men, since in ancient Rome, Greece, Babylon, and in many societies in Asia, the Islamic world, and pre-Christian America, bisexuality is practically a male-only phenomenon.

Because men are more beautiful, and just better overall.

There are many more Bi women than bi men. And bi is the big growth category today

Rutgers found 3% of Dutch men identify as bi, versus 2% of Dutch women.

Ifop found 4% of French men are bi v. 2% of French women.

The ONS found that throughout the 2012-2016 period, the number of bi men in Britain grew over 80%, compared to 65% for bi women.

So the find that there are more bi women than bi men, or that bi women grow more in numbers than bi men, is not universal. It's probably confined mostly to America, which is the most anti-gay-male country in the West.

Because men want sex NOW and often! And women don't care so much about it. I think it's do to evolution. If you can't get it from women then men are the next best thing. Think prison only in the free world.

Confirmation bias

Women are always going to be more discreet about their sexuality, if only for the sake of survival. So you often don't really know cause we don't advertise it.

Men advertise their sexuality because no one would sleep with them otherwise.

Men are getting prettier.

Women are getting uglier.

I have to say every single man that has expressed anything sexual to me was a complete surprise to me, as I'd never thought of them as sexual - more like a piece of furniture. I'm often even surprised they can speak.

Sounds like only ugly men hit on you, R9.

[quote] It's a well known fact that men are more variable than women when it comes to both physical and psychological characteristics. There are more male geniuses and retards, more male dwarves and giants, more male autists, sociopaths, lefties, etc.

Ah. So that's why I feel and have always felt like a total alien no matter where on Earth I go.

r7 Bull. Lesbians are more likely to be out than gay men, and bi women are more likely to be out than bi men. Bi men are, in fact, the group least likely to be out.

Gay men are way more likely to endure homophobic-related violence than any other group of people, and it's not even close.

Women are also way more in-your-face about not being straight than men. Just pay attention when a female celebrity wants to come out; her love of women is all she can talk about. When a male celebrity comes out, he's basically dragged out of the closet after years of speculation, he rarely talks about his love of men (in fact, some try to minimize their homosexuality by saying they're still homosexually virgin), and he always makes it sound like being gay is such a frightening thing due to homophobia and personal insecurity.

How many steamy, graphic songs about woman on woman action are there? Plenty, and some of the women who've released them are not even gay or bi. Whereas gay male singers, like that fat British singer who lost lots of weight, continue to sing their love songs in gender-neutral language despite being out for years.

Hardly seems like women want to conceal their sexuality.

because cock, stupid

As I recall, Meredith Baxter came out because she was about to be outed. Continue, R12.

r14 Oh yeah, one person! That proves I'm wrong.

OK, Jodie Foster came bounding out of the closet at a young age. Not.

Why can't lesbians understand that anecdotes, even if plural, do not equal data, and that isolated exceptions do not refute bigger trends?

I thought with their more masculinized brains, they would be better at understanding this, but I guess not.

R17 I know right? I thought the exact same thing. Those dumb lesbians.

Being a gay man seems to have more cachet. Gay men have their own bars, clubs, restaurants, for one. Gay men are seen as more urbane, fashionable, and artistic.

What do we get in comparison? Home Depot and Uhaul jokes?

Men have more money than women, so of course they're going to have more expensive stuff.

Gay men are more likely to stand out of the mainstream than lesbians, largely because men are much more constrained by expectations of masculinity and manliness, and a lot of gay men are into things that really clash with society’s perceptions of masculinity. Women have more latitude to express their feminity.

That is true, R21.

Frankly, I've been thinking lately about what it means to be a man (not a boy or a teen), and it seems like a bore. I'm glad I'm a woman.

[quote]Gay men are seen as more urbane, fashionable, and artistic.

Gay men are also seen as effeminate, hypersexual, depraved, a threat to children, disgusting and diseased...

Yeah, men can’t stray from very narrow conventions of masculinity without risking severe ridicule and ostracism. Women can do all sorts of masculine stuff and still be socially accepted.

As a lesbian, I feel like I cut my own path in life; it wasn't predefined for me. I would imagine straight couples have a lot of pressure to have kids. No one really knew what expectations to put on me.

Same here, for a while I still felt like there were expectations (kids) because I'm a woman, but once I realised there weren't, the field was wide open.

The biggest pressure for women is having kids, and it’s huge

I would never in a million years want to be a woman. And just below that, I would never in a million years want to be a heterosexual man stuck with a woman and kids.

It is indeed huge, coming from all places. Once I hit 35, it was over. Well, it sort of continued, but I couldn't hear anymore, it was like "it's too late anyway so who cares". What is fantastic is that I've now developed a complete disregard to what people say to me as long as it's not interesting. It's really funny. I truly just don't care. I just wish I'd done it sooner.

Why I’m single and depressed and hold onto toxic people

Don't hold onto toxic people! WTF? Let go of those leeches. Also drop the bottle.

Lol, r32! Thank you for the laugh. I’m working on it.

Well, everyday it seems like there is some new Disney twink coming out.

Men haven't had their actual selves colonized the way women have. They are more capable of independence and also have more money and advantage in society. So they are more likely to come out of the closet. Also as was already noted, men have more "polarized" sexuality so they are more likely to actually be gay and not bi or "fluid" like women.

Only effeminate or non-masc men are likely to come out of the closet. Truly masculine men very rarely willingly come out.

[quote]As a lesbian, I feel like I cut my own path in life; it wasn't predefined for me.

That’s quite an interesting reflection.

R36 doesn't know dick.

One person doesn’t change the general rule. Reading is fundamental

And why are going back to an obscure person from The 70s few people know of. If you’re gonna cite exceptions, cite Michael Sam or one of the current masculine college football players.

“Because men are more beautiful, and just better overall.”

Haha, so true. Hitler, Stalin, Ghaddafi, Hussein, Trump, Lenin.

You wouldn't know that watching TV. Lesbians as the safe gay characters is getting seriously old. Why are gay men so hated, men are beautiful, of course we're attracted to each other!

Is this true? It's certainly not reflected on tv. Every show has a lesbian character while only evey 20th show has a gay male character. Netflix is particularly bad about this. They add lesbians to all their shows, yet the gay male characters are non-existant. I know lesbians are more accepted in society, but still. It's not just the number of lesbians on tv compared to men that's pissing me off either. The lesbians always get to kiss and have sex while the gay male characters are neutered and barely get to hug each other. Take for example The 100. The lesbians had sex and got to kiss every episode. The gay men were only allowed to kiss once during two whole seasons. Riverdale too. The lesbians were allowed to have sex but not the gay male characters. It's utterly ridiculous.

Every time I type in "gay" coming out' on Google News, it's a gay male celeb. If ever a woman comes out, it's some unknown nobody claiming to be 'bisexual' or 'pansexual,' never ever lesbian.

Lesbo here.

I've been thinking about this recently because, where I live, it's really easy to meet loads of gay men, very difficult to meet single lesbians. And the lesbians that do circulate don't really want new friends.

[quote] Gay men have their own bars, clubs, restaurants, for one. Gay men are seen as more urbane, fashionable, and artistic.

My hunch right now is that women tend to stratify more quickly into class and education cliques. The gay men I know are friendly to everyone, and even here on DL, there seems to be an interest in guys even if they are "rough trade." I feel like lesbians tend to "size up" other lesbians by status very quickly, and usually, once they've built a circle of friends, separate themselves from the gay community at large.

R43, it's because man/man sex is so messy.

R42, I think it's is because men are sexually aggressive and they can be physically strong. Most lesbians aren't a threat to men where gay men can be.

R46, but woman/woman anything in real life is a bigger headache and clusterfuck. That's why you never hear about anybody ever visiting some lesbian space. They don't exist. And if they do, nobody goes there, because they're not fun.

And gay men are perceived as being less than manly, which is viewed as a disgrace, whereas if a lesbian is masculine, at least she is mimicking something superior.

And when people think of gay men, they think of anal sex, which many people still think of as icky and unnatural. Also, when they think of gay sex, they think of men being penetrated and receptive, which really freaks a lot of people out.

Good, R50.

Hopefully all of those overwhelming feelings of ickiness and freakiness means that they will stay away from gay bars!

What do you think of them apples?

Maybe since everyone prefers lesbian apparently, everybody (straight men, straight women, lesbians) can all start hanging around lesbian bars and places?

I think that might just end up working quite well for most gay men!

These days, lesbians can just fit in in mainstream Bars.

R51, gay bars are scarce

Good for them, R53.

Straight women should go hang out at lesbian bars, and leave gay men alone!

Speak for yourself

Because 69ing is so fun?

R48 They're not even fun online. Look at the clusterfuck that is L Chat. All the interesting lesbians prefer to post here, that place is so vile.

R45 is right on quite a few counts. It's very rare that I meet other lesbians, and when I do, we usually never meet again. The only women I meet now that I "click" with are either bisexual or in a relationship with a guy who is interested in a threeway with a woman (there are quite a lot of those).

I think (at least in past generations) the desire to have children was greater than the sexual desire for women. It was just easier to lay there get pregnant and raise the kids than it was to pursue an alternative lifestyle. I had a girl I knew from high school confess to me about two years after we graduated that she was a lesbian......but then all of a sudden she was married with three kids.

Because very few people like Lesbians

[quote]I think it's do to evolution.

Oh, dear.

Because there are only a few attractive lesbians. Most want to look like men. What's that about?

I've read that lesbians sometimes don't maintain their femininity as a way of warding off men. If they were pretty and attractive they would get hit on by men. Some really fear that so they subconscioulsy go against the societal rules of what a woman should look like (makeup, jewlery etc.)

Women that are good-looking don't advertise themselves much, unless they want to attract men.

Because lesbians smell like stink fish. On the other hand, gay men smell like poppers and Drakkar Noir.

[quote]Lol, [R32]! Thank you for the laugh. I’m working on it.

THAT'S NOT FUNNY.

That's because you're not a lesbian, R67. Also because you're neither R32 nor R33.

[Quote]Because very few people like Lesbians.

This is bs. Straight men LOVE lesbians. They love lesbian porn and lesbian characters on tv.

Scissoring isn’t as much fun as FUCKING!

Says you

Fictional lesbians are not real-life lesbians. Of course straight men would love fiction written by straight men! I'm sure they even love women in them.

Because sizemeat (8+) is divine and stink-hole is vile. Also because most fish hate other fish.

R29 A lot of women would never want to be women too but they are stuck with that.

And R1 in all these ancient societies women were forced to belong to their husbands who controlled them sexually while having sexual freedom themselves. Of course female bisexuality was made to seem nonexistent, it would mean a degree of freedom for women.

One of those trolling threads that don't quite take off because posters don't take the bait exactly as expected.

Just how pussy-eating dykes like Kelly Ripa aren't called out, but if a man is slightly feminine he's called gay.

Women spread their legs and lay and take dick they don't want.

Some points not mentioned above =

Women who have slept with both sexes can still classify themselves as straight messing up the demographics (the Anne Heches of the world)

Men who have slept with both sexes can't reclassify themselves as straight because of a gay male sex stigma (the Aaron Carters of the world)

Also no one seems to take in to account that women are more reluctantly to talk about sex with a strange pollster so they will tell them what they want to hear.

All of my female relatives identify as straight but none of them would talk about their sex lives if they were interviewed on the street, on the phone or even by mail/e-mail. The female perspective that women don't feel comfortable/safe as a male in public places would also factor into private lives/sex polls done on the street or on the phone. Bottom line is how many gay/bi women are 100% comfortable talking to strangers on the street or phone about their sex lives when they think have nothing to gain from the experience?

Most straight women I know also wouldn't tell the correct number of guys they've been with in e-mail polls for fear of being called a slut or whore in the follow up response. Many women (bi, gay or straight) still fear backlashes for their sexual answers more than men would. I've only know a few lesbians in my small town area but I don't think any of them would say they were with a woman if they were polled. They'd probably pass themselves off as straight.

I think a person would have to care about the poll results to be honest with the pollster and how many people is that exactly? I've never been polled about my sexuality so don't know what my answers would be. Polls don't do much in the way of public policy or in other matters like church behavior/acceptance.

Keep in mind 20 years ago, Ricky Martin, George Takei, Zack Quinto & many others would have answered/identified as straight so LGBTs all know that the late 90's polls should have been taken with a grain of salt

Many heteros want our numbers to be super low so they are always quick to embrace those polls results that reflect their agenda & presume that everyone in our community is already out of the closet. They (& I guess some LGBTs in major cities) are still learning that there is no shortage of closet cases in any part of the world.

I also think many, not all, gay males grew up feeling so ostracized and plain different than their peers, that they seek refuge in a distinct subculture identity and community. Without gay identity and community, where else will they find acceptance and solace? Lesbians experience stigma and ostracism too, but not to the degree gay men generally do.

That's possibly the case, R78. Also, women are generally more accepting. Unless they're simply stupid, straight women won't mind having a gay or bisexual woman friend, whereas somehow this sounds more like a remote possibility for a straight male (having a gay male friend, or even a bisexual male friend that they know is bisexual).

I was mainly talking preMillennials above, but still today steight men are often uncomfortable or resistant to having close gay male friends because they fear people will think it means they also are gay or bi. However, we can’t ignore the noticeable growth of close friendships between gay men and bi men in the modern era.

It’s weird we think of women as more accepting of gay-bi-women. But I think women in general are more repressed sexually and in terms of initiating romantic contact. You can pack a club full of random gay women and how many of them will genuinely step outside their comfort zone and become the pursuer? Of course there are exception to the rule but oftentimes this plagues our community. I think some bi-women or even lesbians give up on the game and retreat to men or just accept being alone or settle for whatever. Subcultures that have been popular for gay men at times would never find the same success in the lesbian community.

Can you imagine a bathouse/spa where gay women go for anonymous hook-ups or gay/bi women meeting in parks with no names etc and just fucking around. Are there some women that might engage in this activity yes but it would be minuscule compared to the ones that would do an entire dissertation on how damaging these activities would be to women sexually, emotionally, and socially. Imagine Suzy soccer mom pulling up in her mini-van to have some random women go down on her in some secluded park or having a mutual masturbation this just wouldn’t happen.

Spot-on, R81.

But I’m not talking about sexual or romantic interest and pursuit. I’m talking about overall human acceptance and Friendships.

On the sexual issue, men generally are more risky and impulsive. Also, many men often decouple sex from relationships and love, whereas women still generally do not.

[quote]My hunch right now is that women tend to stratify more quickly into class and education cliques. The gay men I know are friendly to everyone, and even here on DL, there seems to be an interest in guys even if they are "rough trade." I feel like lesbians tend to "size up" other lesbians by status very quickly, and usually, once they've built a circle of friends, separate themselves from the gay community at large.

It is natural for people to gravitate towards their own socio-economic group and sometimes be rather insular that way, but I am surprised to hear that lesbians tend to be status conscious as a group.

Personally I find that I enjoy spending my free time with women who are artistically enclined but are not artists themselves (not professional artists anyway), and who have a lot of free time where money is not an issue: women who enjoy exhibitions, classical concerts, theatre- I'll be honest I'm not really interested in anybody else. Cosmopolitan, preferably.

We all have our preferences.

It's not really a status thing, it's people I can enjoy hobbies with, and connect with and relax. I think we're all looking for the same. If I want people that are an awkward fit I've got work and all sorts of daily encounters for that.

R83

Yes preference is a part of it but when hear so many gay women complaining about not being able to meet women at what point should consider to exploring other dating options. I have a very good paying job and am established but I wouldn’t be opposed to dating someone that is still in limbo professionally. It would just depend on deep my feelings ran if I found myself falling in love I wouldn’t close myself off because she is working at a non-career oriented job. Unfortunately many lesbians if a date doesn’t tick about 40 boxes she won’t even consider a date.

R87

Are you that uptight that you can’t possibly establish friendships outside of people with the absolute same hobbies, interests, etc that’s a tough break. This is why I think gay men are more accepting I’ve been my male gay friends have friends all across socio-economic groups, hobbies. It’s not uncommon to attend a party and find men that work in as an attorney, gym rat with no discerning job, and a teacher. Completely random people and of different ages.

[quote]Personally I find that I enjoy spending my free time with women who are artistically enclined but are not artists themselves [bold](not professional artists anyway)[/bold]

What's wrong with artist? They are some of the most interesting people you will meet.

R88 and R89, I was going to write to you two different messages. First, I have very little free time outside of the house and outside work and . Second, I meet people for a living. That is to say, when I work I will engage and speak to from 20 to 200 people a day. And I am remarkably successful at connecting with people from all walks of life. But when it comes to my personal time, which I have very little of, I know where my preference lies. People that are very outside of my circle I will meet at work, or even at my one hobby once a week/month (I take evening classes). That said, I have been partnered for 10+ years. I'm not looking. And I dated quite a bit when I was younger. I've hugged a homeless man and shaked hands with an actor who had worked with Kate Winslet. I was robbed on a suburban train and visited Louis XIV's birth chamber the same day, just a couple hours apart.

Anyway. This is just to say I have met quite a lot of people in my life and will continue to meet them, because in person I make it very easy to make a connection.

As for your other post, you will meet someone. Open as you are, you will. And it will be somebody worthwhile, and she will be lucky to have you.

[quote]shaked hands with an actor who had worked with Kate Winslet

Huh?

R90 Not being an artist myself, I tend to feel a little inadequate in the company of those who make art for a living, or at the very least devote their lives to art-making. That said, my favourite encounters were with artists. A known crime writer (now diseased), a few stage and film actresses (maybe an actor or two), a translator-turned-painter, but probably the most incredible trip I had was a year ago, visiting quite by accident a friend who I hadn't met in 10 years, who was an art student back then and is a struggling/emerging artist now. We spent a whole day together and it was simply amazing. Communication was actually more difficult when she was still a student!

R91

I understand completely where you’re coming from I get it time is limited. You don’t want precious time wasted putting on a front to accommodate someone you have zero in common with.

I Thjnk women generally have more hurdles to same-sex friendships than men. I am shocked at how often I see women clashing with each other over trivial mess, including among friends and family. Not all dudes are chill and laid back, but men can bond with each other without drama. Also, men bond over activities, which means we have more opportunities to bond beyond mere social class or demographics. If my friend likes to watch or play basketball, we can bond across demographics.

Male bisexuality is less accepted than female bisexuality, so women are more likely to ID as bi than men. This is slowly changing, and more men have started to say they're bi as well rather than gay or straight.

Additionally, speaking as a lesbian myself, I can also say that it's tough being partnered to a woman due to the double discrimination of being female and gay. Women earn less than men, are more likely to be raising children, and just generally don't get treated that well or taken very seriously in day to day life. Double that with two female partners for twice the problems. It makes it tough to really make a serious life together with another woman. For these reasons I suspect mostly women who are even a bit bi prefer to end up with men.

If male bisexuality becomes mainstream and accepted, it will be a force unto itself. It will change society

[quote] Men who have slept with both sexes can't reclassify themselves as straight because of a gay male sex stigma (the Aaron Carters of the world).

Stigma is absolutely the reason Aaron Carter can't reclassify himself straight.

True

[quote] Stigma is absolutely the reason Aaron Carter can't reclassify himself straight.

Bruce Willis' fat cock is the reason Aaron Carter can't reclassify himself straight.

"I was robbed on a suburban train and visited Louis XIV's birth chamber the same day."

Isn't that a couple miles east of Pacoima?