Is pretty privilege even real?

Let's let Datalounge's favorite therapist weigh in:

I don't think the part about the ugly people being treated like shit is accurate. It's more accurate to say that they are invisible thus ignored.

But when you are gorgeous, for a 10-20 year stretch if you are truly nature blessed, you are given anything and everything. I was stopped while driving under the influence 6 times when I lived in ATL in the 80s(I am not proud of that and I have since stopped drinking) and I was let go every time with no quid pro quo. Today if I were stopped DUI I would likely be taken straight to jail.

In a weird way I almost wish that I had not had the privilege; because losing it is such a shock to one's psyche. It's a double edged sword I guess.

Pretty people are kinder and more generous. Ugly people are generally aggressive and jealous. Very rare - at least for women - for someone pretty to be aggressive.

Speaking as someone who's been on both ends of the spectrum, having fixed things that made me unattractive - I can tell you that pretty privilege is real. Fat or ugly or unkempt people are treated with a certain contempt and have to prove themselves worthy of respect or cosideration. Good-looking people are given the benefit of the doubt.

R4: "Good-looking people are given the benefit of the doubt."

Truly sums it up perfectly.

Pretty privilege? No. Big dick privilege? Yes

Are you a female, r2, or did you manage to get stopped 5 times by gay cops?

Big dick privilege is limited to those who have seen you naked. It doesn’t get you nice tables at restaurants, doors opened, job promotions, speeding tickets pardoned, or get out of jail free cards.

"There is no door in the world that beauty can't open." - author unknown

"There are no ugly women, only lazy ones." - Helena Rubinstein

Unless you fuck the decision makers, of course

I treat good looking people differently than plain people and I hate myself for it. Big dick privilege is also real, because BD men reveal their status by how they display themselves if not by exposing their junk.

who is that twat at r1, exclaiming about how pretty he is? I mean...he ain't all that.

Are you joking? There is a mountain of scientific research on the topic. God. Here's 487,000 results going back to the 1960s.

It isn’t usually a conscious choice, OP. It’s evolution. People treat attractive people of fertile/virile age better because we consciously or unconsciously want to mate with them. Also, people who are ugly may be so because they have genetic defects or are physically ill/diseased, and mating with or coming into close contact with them could result in inferior offspring or in us contracting an illness, so we unconsciously reject/shun them.

One of the most famous studies (cited 4000+ times) was published in 1972 (and replicated many many times):

Researchers examined whether physically attractive persons, both male and female, are (a) assumed to possess more socially desirable personality traits than physically unattractive persons, and (b) expected to lead better lives (e.g., be more competent husbands and wives and more successful occupationally) than unattractive stimulus persons. Results indicate a "what is beautiful is good" stereotype along the physical attractiveness dimension.

This is a very famous paper from the top journal in Psychology. This is hardly a debated issue. It's been in textbooks & re-tested / re-proven (with different populations and other variations on the original study) for 46 years.

What's odd is the worst offenders of treating pretty (white) people better are the serf cultures like Jews and Mexicans. Power people don't do it as often or so openly.

The serfs treat pretty brown people worse, but save all their ire for pretty white people over whom they somehow gain private control.

We have two words for you: Shawn Mendes.

R16 do you have any research to back your statements or are those off the cuff opinions you are expressing?

In my circles, what you are saying is not the case. But then again, I don’t live in the 50 states.

"Serf cultures like Jews", R16? You mean the 22.5% of Nobel prize winners, despite being less than .02 % of the world's population?

Bitter people do bitter things. And there are a million reasons one can be a bitter person.

- A pretty person can be "you only like me, coz I'm pretty!" bitter.

- An ugly person can be "the whole world treats me like shit, because I'm ugly! It's only fair that I return the favor!"

I thought it was only applied to female cuz it is still a world dominated by straight men. Aren't those straight powerful older men jealous of young pretty hot men ? The prettier you are as a man, the more you might be oppressed by your boss (unless he is gay )

It depends. In fashion, entertainment, publicity , market/sales industries, yes. Other industries, prob not

I'm nice to everyone. Unless you wear too much perfume or cologne, or smell like cigarette smoke or dryer sheets.

Of course it’s real.

[quote]The prettier you are as a man, the more you might be oppressed by your boss (unless he is gay )

...or female. Or do you hold women above such banalities of human nature?

I think there is definitely privilege in the minds of most pretty people and a lot of other people go along with it. It’s not so much voluntary in the minds of others as it is oppressive in the behaviour of those who claim the privilege through their perception that they’ve earned it through their looks and/or sex appeal.

There are ugly people, with ugly personalities, that get get treated badly, because of their ugly personalities, not their ugly looks.

If being ugly is such a bane, then why do they continue to breed?

Or are they also delusional, thinking that ugly people don't produce ugly children?

[quote]Are you joking? There is a mountain of scientific research on the topic. God.

RESEARCH? You don’t need to research something so conspicuous. Try paying attention to something other than your phone and you’ll get confirmation.

[quote]If being ugly is such a bane, then why do they continue to breed?

[quote]Or are they also delusional, thinking that ugly people don't produce ugly children?

This is sarcasm, right? Nobody could be this stupid.

Because maybe everyone isn't that shallow, r28?

str8 men favor good looking men?

r21, straight guys also gravitate towards pretty, or shall I say handsome, men because they attract females. Just like animals, we want to be associated with the strongest pack. A hot guy is genetically the strongest (on the surface), and probably has an attractive personality since he received lots of attention based on his looks. So he will come off as a popular, attractive, chick magnet. This pack mentality starts to fall off after college when straight men start families (packs) of their own, but men are very cliquish until their 20s.

While working in retail I observed less attractive male friends taking a lot of shit from their attractive buddies in a very Mean Girls type of way. Straight guys can be such catty superficial bitches. Within a progressional setting, even the older men will enjoying the general company of attractive associates. It makes their team look good to have guys that look good, as long as they are capable of actually doing their jobs. These guys will come stocked full of fun stories from college or nights out on the town, making work more "fun".

Of course, there are those crab in the barrel types from both sexes that just bring everyone down.

I was going to respond to r31, but r32 - even if responding to r21 - summed it up pretty well

Uglies get off on power and then make pretty people their bitches. It strokes their egos that they can boss pretty people around (claim the assumed alpha male position in the room or relationship) or treat them like trophies.

Yes, it's real. I was very badly bullied all through elementary school and high school. They picked on me for a number of reasons, but mostly because I was ugly.

I still stand by my point.

Those that oppose, are either attractive, or ugly people that have had ugly children.

We appreciate beauty. We appreciate what we like. Look at nature. Sometimes the most appealing thing to an animal can lead to its death, because predators use that against them by luring them into traps. We are drawn to things we find appealing and what we (grow to) like.

But why are there still lots of ugly rich and powerful ppl?

If pretty privilege is real, why are majority of those gay porn actors living miserable lives ?

R39 because nearly all of them are NOT pretty they are a bunch of butterfaces.

I take all of my opinions on the subject full strength from Matthew Dempsey's profound and candid video chats. [sounds of projectile vomiting off-screen]

I would say "pretty privilege" affects women much more than it affects men (as someone up-thread noted, the world is still dominated by straight men.)

At my job, there is a women who is very aggressive and domineering. She is also well-put-together, stylish, and attractive. I was thinking recently that half of her behavior would not be tolerated if she were overweight and unattractive.

I would say things are especially hard for very intelligent, unattractive women. They have a double-hit in how men perceive them: first, men generally view women as less intelligent. Second, people generally view attractive women as more intelligent. Ugly, smart women have to fight against both, and it's exhausting for them.

R39, because they took a very easy, albeit extremely temporary, path when deciding to bank on pretty.

If you’re gonna whore your talentless beauty for money and want long-term results, you become a trophy husband/wife.

Beauty won't last very long for a man ,for most ppl, if you are over 30 and you still don't have substantial skills or talents, it gonna be much more difficult to get what you want. Just saying

Pretty privlege is as real as rich people living, supposedly better lives than poor people or, supposed, healthy people living better lives than sick people.

It's all about superior vs. inferior. The superior is better and lives a better life than the inferior. The superior is right and the inferior is wrong. The superior is top and the inferior is bottom.

Remember the orange buffoon is now in the white house .

You call?

He is going to crush that puppy with his great big head.

[quote]Pretty people are kinder and more generous

I call BS on that one. Pretty people are usually the most self absorbed people you will ever meet. They are always worried about keeping up their looks if not planning their next style move. Anything they give away is less they can spend on themselves to keep looking good. They tend to be cheap with everyone except themselves. Ugly people are usually the most generous. Just look at Bill Gates, not exactly a model even with he was young.

[quote]Second, people generally view attractive women as more intelligent

Um, no they don't, sorry to burst your bubble. Really pretty women in offices full of straight men are seen as Bimbos. Not saying they don't get more privileges, of course they do. But no one thinks they are more intelligent. Just turn on Fox News and what do you see? The prettiest dumb bitches on TV!

Unattractive women tend to be funnier, in my experience, because they've had to develop other parts of their personality beyond appearance.

Sorry to burst YOUR bubble, r50:

[quote]I would say "pretty privilege" affects women much more than it affects men

Nope, men still do it too other men but not for sex. Professional CEO's who don't actually start a company but instead surf from one company to anther as the top level guy are almost always over 6' tall, thin, and reasonably attractive. In the board room if they have to pick his replacement and tow man have exactly the same skill set, but one is handsome and tall the other is short fat and bald. Guess which one get the job? Because straight men see that guy as representing the them and the company and they want to be seen as looking good.

There's nothing 'purposeful' about it. Its unconscious bias. Everyone with half a brain knows and accepts this, and likely has observed it too.

R3 you're retarded and I'm sorry for you.

As a teenager my sister worked as a waitress. She never wore heavy makeup. Pretty girl but plain presentation. One day she did an experiment where she really plastered it on, concealer, shading, highlighter, hairdo the works.

Quadrupled her tips. Not just from men either, from everyone, including old ladies.

I also worked as a server as a kid and found I increased my tips when I turned up the gay and acted really camp. Which was curious.

What an odd Jewish response r18

Sorry to burst your bubble again R52, that article is from the style section of the paper, not exactly a Harvard study. Its a montage of opinions. The study they quote only proves people who are pretty get more attention or privilege. It does not prove that men think they are smarter. I will say it again, look at Fox News, no one thinks the woman on that channel are beyound average intelegents. None of them compair to a Rachel Maddow for example. But they are pretty, they do get privilege, but perceived as smarter? Not a chance.

"They picked on me for a number of reasons, but mostly because I was ugly."

R35 beautiful people get bullied too, but for different reasons. I know from experience.

I know a handsome guy who had anger management issues, because everybody thought he was just a hot, dumb jock. He actually punched guys who kept treating him like he's dumb even though he went out of his way to prove to them that he's smart (not realizing that by doing that he showed his weak spot and some assholes just pushed his buttons for shits and giggles and got punched as a result). It got so bad I couldn't go out with him anymore, because he got banned everywhere.

R34 is absolutely, 1000 percent correct!

One fascinating social experiment is to neg a naturally handsome or beautiful popular person you've just met, by casually ignoring them or giving them apathetic or negligent service/attention. It's incredible how it spins them out and makes them question their entire reality, and seems to wake everyone else around them out of a stupor (though they fall right back into it, of course). This is particularly hilarious when pulled on a gorgeous man.

R62, I have done that. They could not handle the situation.

You have to be delusional to think that handsome men or pretty women don't get that extra boost just because. What the fuck is Instagram then? Oddly, I see no shows following the non-pretty. Please name one if you can, and don't bother with the obvious mental issue/my family fucks goats and sells guns reality shows. Just everyday people with everyday looks.

[quote]Pretty people are kinder and more generous. Ugly people are generally aggressive and jealous. Very rare - at least for women - for someone pretty to be aggressive.

LOL

Pretty people don't have to react to external stimuli as much because of the "non pretty people buffer" around them doing all of their problem solving for them. That episode of 30 rock about the hot useless guy is DEAD. ON.

When you think of a model, do you think pro-active brainiac? Or do you think, person who's only job requirement is not being late.

Don't be late, don't be beaten, don't have a black eye <-- pretty people job requirements

I need a web server up and running with a new version of our website that you're going to pull out of your ass in 10 minutes with mirror running in another country for no reason and I'm going to need you to simultaneously work with someone in the wood shop and accounting and in another completely opposite department from another universe and ensure that everyone is on the same page even though half of the people are violent ex cons with a saw in their hands while the other half wants said people fired.

[italic]Oh and -PRETTY PERSON'S NAME- is running behind so can you please help them with their work when you're done? [/italic] <-- real life, oh, ESP. if you're gay. We get shit on even if we're the pretty one.

R66, True, if gay and pretty, you are a rung below the straight pretty.

R49 So tending to your appearance means you can’t be kind

I wonder if Garrett Neff feels privileged.

Hello, social media?

We have taken an entire generation of kids and taught them, with concrete examples, that being pretty can ease you into a life of comfort, success, satisfaction and happiness. It's not that it hasn't always existed; we have just further codified it into a career path. But pretty is relative, and there are things everybody can do to make themselves more attractive, whether working out, wearing makeup, knowing how to dress correctly for your body type (which can evolve, of course) and presenting yourself well. I'd sum it up in a word: confidence. The rub is that pretty people come to confidence naturally, whereas (I don't want to use the word "ugly" because beauty, in this context, is more than skin deep) less-than-pretty people have to work at it.

[quote] RESEARCH? You don’t need to research something so conspicuous. Try paying attention to something other than your phone and you’ll get confirmation.

So decades of social psychologists and anthropologists (before cell phones were invented) were wasting their time, R29? Why were they getting grant money? Obviously people wanted this topic studied. Just look at this thread - people are debating the issue & that is why RESEARCH was done to settle the answers. What the hell does it have to do with "paying attention to something other than your phone"? This research goes back to the origin of social psych in the 1960s. Try paying attention to what's written in the posts and you'll get informed.

OP = naive

[quote] know a handsome guy who had anger management issues, because everybody thought he was just a hot, dumb jock. He actually punched guys who kept treating him like he's dumb even though he went out of his way to prove to them that he's smart (not realizing that by doing that he showed his weak spot and some assholes just pushed his buttons for shits and giggles and got punched as a result). It got so bad I couldn't go out with him anymore, because he got banned everywhere.

Well, he sounds just like a dumb jock, so, walk like a duck, quack like a duck...

r73, he was terribly insecure, hence the anger management issues. You can be incredibly smart in some ways and still be a fool when it comes to socializing.

[quote]So decades of social psychologists and anthropologists (before cell phones were invented) were wasting their time, [R29]? Why were they getting grant money? Obviously people wanted this topic studied. Just look at this thread - people are debating the issue & that is why RESEARCH was done to settle the answers.

Yup. Pretty much. The tax payer’s money spent on such a useless study is a COMPLETE waste. Also, people are debating this topic because they’re vain or have experience with it. That doesn’t mean it qualifies for decades worth of research. Hey, did you know that water is wet?! Let's spend a bunch of your money to prove it.

[quote]What the hell does it have to do with "paying attention to something other than your phone"?

Yeah, It’s a metaphor...

Do you even know what a metaphor is? Because that isn't one.

It's not just "tax payer's" money. Obviously you don't know how academia works (not surprising, since you have zero intellectual curiosity). It's usually grant money.

Did you go to college or study anything requiring the scientific method? Usually this is the kind of reply from people who have no education beyond high school...or a very limited view of the world with a low IQ.

It's ugly when someone hired or chosen for their looks suddenly bores everyone, and everyone turns on them.

R18, ignore her. She doesn’t live in reality. Or maybe she does but she’s ugly so nobody can see her.

In my experience, there is such a thing, but I think it is greatly exaggerated and to what extent the "privilege" really offers real and substantial benefits is up for debate. In my experience, particularly with my more empirically attractive friends, while their "beauty" may bring them superficial attention, e.g. at a bar from potential suitors or from family/friends who say things like "you're so beautiful" at social gatherings with old relatives, outside of those instances, I've never really witnessed any significant advantages bestowed upon them simply based on a quality of beauty. While beauty is certainly commercialized, to the average person, it's a poor currency. In that sense, I don't perceive it as being real. Further, I feel like "pretty people" talk of such instances without any real evidence to back it up. One of my good girlfriends claims men have offered her everything from trips to jewelry to weekend use of vacation homes, but I personally have never really witnessed any event of the kind (and she's certainly never received any of those benefits that I've seen). Thus, I feel like pretty privilege, while often claimed, is rarely witnessed by others. The poster above talking about getting out of DWIs six times, empirically speaking that would almost be impossible. The reality was that while one, maybe some, of those potential charges were abated by looks, the reality was that other factors stopped it (e.g. it was the 80s and drunk driving wasn't seen as horrific as it is today, or the cop couldn't ascertain reasonable suspicion that the driver was dunk).

There is also a point where beauty of others just isn't a sufficient benefit to a person where incurring costs to revel in it really makes sense. Case in point, an particularly attractive ex of mine was very fun to have on my arm in public, but the burden of supporting his jobless existence eventually bludgeoned to death any benefit I received from his having his beauty around. It doesn't matter how beautiful you are if you are a loser. And I don't mean "loser" in the pejorative sense, but rather as someone who simply doesn't produce anything of value (except their looks). Obviously, I am talking about this in very superficial terms. Anecdotally, I can say that I certainly get more attention (sexual or otherwise) when I have a more fit body and slimmer, have my hair nicely done up or am dressed particularly well. But I don't really consider such attention as a tangible benefit.

"One of my good girlfriends claims men have offered her everything from trips to jewelry to weekend use of vacation homes, but I personally have never really witnessed any event of the kind (and she's certainly never received any of those benefits that I've seen)."

Obviously you have never been to LA...or New York, or well anywhere on the planet earth.

I only know one person who is actually so beautiful she takes your breath away. Like, looking at her makes me want to cry and I'm 80% gay.

Its a mixed bag to be that beautiful.

Granted some of these issues stem from her very abusive childhood but... Well...She was always attractive to men.

Firstly compliments mean nothing to her because she knows she has not earned them by anything tangible. Yet her self esteem is built on her looks so if she doesn't get them she feels worthless.

Secondly she thinks that the moment her looks go she'll loose all value as a human being, she has a pathological fear of aging and is also anorexic. Punishing herself constantly for letting anything be imperfect.

Thirdly she thinks she's only valued for her looks and has spent most of her life proving how smart she us ( she's in Mensa, has 2 PHDs.) Yet still can't believe it herself.

On balance I think I'd rather be my uggo self.

I know pretty privilege is real. But I always keep this in mind: no matter how good looking someone is, somewhere, there’s someone, who’s sick of their shit.

r23 Oh, stuff and nonsense! All those things are life's little pleasures!

R1- That's your example of PRETTY. Dr. Dempsey is too sceney and too queeny for my taste. Gregory Peck ca. 1948-now that was a pretty man.

Matthew Dempsey= See Tarzan Hear Jane- is NOT pretty

Only an ugly person would ask if pretty privilege is real.

R80 Touche FLOTUS. Admittedly I haven't spent much time in those kinds of nouveau riche coastal cultures, and I recognize that those types of situations do occur (they do where I live as well). I'm more talking about the average American who's better looking than most (not some ex-model banging the President). Of course there are attractive people who reap those kinds of things but I think those situations are more exception than rule. And really, the question I'm interested in is to what extent this privilege truly provides tangible benefits. If I date some rich older guy and he pays off my debts, that's a benefit. People calling me handsome in social settings is not something I consider to be a benefit (give me money then if you think I'm hot!).

I just watched the video in R1. I have no idea who that dude is (I assume he's some kind of celebrity) but nothing of which he speaks really seems to scream he's received some great advantage by his looks. He's attractive, but his proffered benefits of that beauty are getting invited to parties, having more sex, getting more work (as a therapist?), etc. That sounds like any person with a social life and someone who is somewhat decent at their job, not someone blessed by the mysterious pretty privilege. I get those things all the time and I'm not some grade-A hottie.

[quote]What's odd is the worst offenders of treating pretty (white) people better are the serf cultures like Jews and Mexicans. Power people don't do it as often or so openly.

Besides being racist, this person doesn't understand what the word "serf" means.

I think it starts with children. Cute kids are treated much nicer than plain or ugly ones.

One really must do mental gymnastics to argue that beauty is not a significant advantage in life. Intelligence, beauty, charm and confidence are all advantageous.

A deficiency in any of those can diminish the benefits of the other qualities, but an abundance of any of those qualities is always going to be a "foot in the door".

Beauty is the most fleeting of those qualities, so in that regard, it is not the safest basket in which to put one's eggs.

Being born into money doesn't guarantee success and can even contribute to unhappiness, but it would still be considered an advantage to most people. It's how you manage your advantages that contributes to your success or failure.

[quote]t's not just "tax payer's" money. Obviously you don't know how academia works (not surprising, since you have zero intellectual curiosity). It's usually grant money.

Oh my GOD, where to start with you…

Where the FUCK do you think grant money comes from...you insufferable piece of shit? I never said funding ONLY comes from taxpayers (one word...Mr. Academia). In the context of THIS thread, I was trying to get across to you that YOUR money--if you have a job and pay taxes--goes to grants for superfluous studies like the topic of THIS thread. That is NOT a general statement on scientific research. My intent was not to go into the logistics of how grants are created and funded. This is common knowledge, you stupid FUCK. Obviously, YOU don't know how "Academia" works.

[quote]Did you go to college or study anything requiring the scientific method? Usually this is the kind of reply from people who have no education beyond high school...or a very limited view of the world with a low IQ.

WOW. Now...let’s get petty. First of all, yes I went to college and I can actually spell...but what the fuck does that have to do with the topic of this thread? What’s your point? Do I have to be college educated to think that a study on pretty people being privileged is a waste of money? I mean...if you think that kind of study is integral to society, you might as well eat your degree--if you have one--with a side of ranch.

BTW, I know many extremely talented, intelligent and successful people that only have high school degrees, you pseudo-elitist fuck. For that comment, you deserve to be curbed stomped, and I’m not really sure how you can access my intelligence, IQ or worldview when you don’t even know what’s done with the money you pay in taxes.

I'm gorgeous and no one will speak to me!

Oh, gosh. We're living in a society that values looks above all else--to the point where we invented body dysmorphia and now have millions of people mutilating their faces with plastic surgery. But we're arguing whether beauty privilege is real. All righty then.