Old Guard Wealth

Dried little bits of cheese on Ritz crackers.

Fancy title. Family estate.

They know the difference between “it’s” and “its” and when to use each...

Oh it’s time to do this again . . .

You never talk about money.

One eschews the media.

ONE never talks about money, R5!

The women are all Secret Lesbians

I wonder what the Jamaican tranny would say?

Stupid nick names and congenital birth defects (caused by interbreeding).

The barely tangible smell of lavender and death...

Earrings (Cartier, inherited from granny).

Caftans (but only in Palm Beach or Nantucket).

slightly worn tweed

Extinction

Old money treats their help very well with high pay, respect, long term employment sometimes for life and even inheritance. They know you cant do anything without good help. If they do something philanthropic, its usually very low key, sometimes anonymously.

New money is rude, demanding, distrusts those serving them, looks down upon them for not "making something of themselves" like they did, revolving door of employment, waited on hand and foot 24/7 and never leave them a dime more than a standard tip. Nothing is ever good enough for them and they think they could do a better job.

New money loves to flaunt, flaunt, flaunt their purchasing power with over priced designer cloths, high end status cars like a Porsche , oversized McMansions in some faux style they know nothing about or interest in architecture. They love to humble brag about the latest deal they made and how hard it is being rich. If they do something philanthropic, they want their name on the damn building in big bold letters. Its not worth it if they are not recognized for their public special of appearing to give a shit.

Young maids of color being used as modern day sex slaves.

Who said "New money shouts, old money whispers?"

think it was Dorinda on Housewives

The clothes and cars are ten years old, if not twenty.

Old guard tend to have a lot more class. New money tend to be tacky as a toilet bowl. They think just because the watched Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman learn how to use a knife and for, they have learned all they need to know. Class is not about table manners, its about public and private behavior.

Hear hear r15.

Who the hell is that, R9?

Discretion, discretion, discretion VS. Ostentation, Ostentation, Ostentation

R21

DL fave Lady Colin Campbell

Old rich: Judgement from afar.

New rich: In your face, bitch!

Being from Europe.

My grandmother worked for old money. Three generations of the same family, from her early 20's until she retired at 80.

I say old chap! Everything dickety-boo?

Old money in America that I know of used to import European maids and other help because they intended to keep them long term. Also because that was their life long profession they were good at. Unlike America where we see it as some kind of temp job or something you do until you can find something better. Or only something untrained immigrants do for pay under the table.

New money loves unskilled type they can pay almost nothing for and at the same time bitch about the lack of quality service they get. It makes them feel superior. Especially if they are another race. They then love to bitch and brag to their friends that they cant find good help. When you point them where to find professionals, then its "oh no, I dont want to pay that". Champagne taste on a beer budget.

R9 is a dumb, lying twat. Lady Colin Campbell is not trans, you moron. She was born a biological female. Isn't that what you're always ranting and raving about, people who are born female and those who aren't?

[quote] Georgia Ziadie was born in Jamaica in 1949, one of four children of Michael and Gloria Ziadie. She had a genital malformation (a fused labia and deformed clitoris). Medical advice at the time was to assign her as a male so she could live a normal life. She was christened George William.[1] Though her family life was otherwise happy, Campbell has spoken and written of the struggles she faced being raised as a boy when she was physically female.[1]

[quote] Her family, the Ziadies, were prominent in Jamaica. Their father was descended from one of six brothers who emigrated from Lebanon in the early 20th century; they were Maronite Catholics.[2] Her mother was also Catholic, of English, Irish, Portuguese and Spanish descent, and her maternal great-grandmother was a Sephardic Jew.[2]

[quote] Campbell moved from Jamaica to New York City to attend the Fashion Institute of Technology.[3] She was not able to have corrective surgery until she was 21, when her grandmother discovered what had occurred and gave her the $5,000 she needed. At that time, Ziadie legally changed her name to Georgia Arianna and received a new birth certificate.[1]

You are a nasty, bigoted woman, R9, and you have no idea what you are talking about.

You dont live in southern calif and you dont remodel your house in the latest trends.

Paul and Bunny Mellon old $

Donald Trump and family...... new $ , even tho he is second generation wealth, his childhood seems to be so awful that he acts like new $

R30, true, although areas of Pasadena and Montecito are acceptable.

Your antique oriental rugs are so threadbare they look like trash. They're worth a fortune but it doesn't matter, they stay where they are on the floors until they disintegrate. Vacation houses are chock full of old, worn out furniture, drapes, vehicles. It's sent out from other houses, other relatives, whatever. It's all very ramshackle and should not be smartened up. That would be gauche and try-hard.

fraying upholstery.

big veiny dongs

big veiny horses

Deep deep hardcore racism. The women all look like horses while their husbands chase any and all tail they can find. The women sit at home drunk from 8 in the morning till night torturing the maids because all women are slurs even though their chinless husbands hate them, and they know it.

THOSE are traditional old money values. Bank on it.

Oh, and they are the inventors of the lavender marriage.

“Do we know their people?”

And lest I sound like an old priss, they’re pretty fun to party with, but leave early because that’s when things get weird.

R38

I meant r37. Not r38.

Old houses. Old furniture. Old wine.

Old clothes, things that still fit, still wear well, and are no more out of style than they ever were.

The Ivies.

House is decorated once using a lot of passed down pieces and doesn't ever really need to change in major ways because it's classic.

New money buys shiny leotards, sequined vests and pricey workout shoes for aerobics class.

Old money sticks to sweats and PF Flyers.

The family office handles everything for them. No monsters.

The use of the word “accoutrements,” as if you didn’t know.

Old money doesn't think about money. It's just THERE. Always has been; always will be.

Old money is amused.

Gold, lots of gold.

The distinctions are disappearing. Once upon a time, the old money separated itself by neighborhoods or schools. Now the Ivies and prep schools have all types of people. Country clubs are still relatively homogenous but people often fall in love with people they meet through work or school.

An old money type I know (his parents considered the Vanderbilts new money) married a Jewish woman he met in law school and they have 2 young kids. His grandparents could not have imagined such a thing.

The old money style of his parents and grandparents is unfashionable. Now new money tries to look like old money. Debutante balls and such are outdated except for new money princesses.

Grey Poupon...

Lady Mary from Downton Abbey said something like this: "We don't buy furniture for our homes. We inherit them."

[Quote]Deep deep hardcore racism. The women all look like horses while their husbands chase any and all tail they can find. The women sit at home drunk from 8 in the morning till night torturing the maids because all women are slurs even though their chinless husbands hate them, and they know it.

[Quote]THOSE are traditional old money values. Bank on it.

[Quote]Oh, and they are the inventors of the lavender marriage.

Tell us what you really think, r37. LOL!

Fly fishing club memberships

Rubber boots

Actual gardening, with gloves and Latin names for plants and everything

Snooker

A roque court

An exquisitely beautiful but cranky sports car of some obscure marquee you've never heard of and which doesn't exist anymore that spends 99% of its time in a rotting Victorian garage with a blanket over it

An ornithologist's knowledge of bird-sightings

Milkweed plantings

Verandas

19th century wicker

A Steinway somebody actually fucking plays

A Tiffany glass dish full of Worth's butterscotch

Cutting the crusts off sandwiches

Postcards from Long Lake

A Cubist drawing in the guest bedroom (couldn't think of where else to hang the dreadful thing).

Taffeta

Canasta, pinochle, euchre and bridge

Chess games involving cursing

Brandy Alexanders on Christmas Eve

Ice yachts

Reusable swizzle sticks

Waterford highball glasses with the game birds of America etched on them

A brace of Purdys

Favorite sweaters

First edition novels from the 1920s

An entire library of some extremely dignified and intellectual but intensely boring subject with which the patriarch is obsessed, such as torte law in Spanish Florida

A patriarch

Girls with peekaboo hairstyles and blood red lipstick who are secretly judging you

Tweeds

Beautiful idiot second sons who would probably be gay if they had the wattage to realize the fact

The dim memory of an arabesque fantasy visible as a mere ghostly outline on the floor (i.e., the carpets)

Sung Dynasty ceramics

French and American Impressionist watercolors

Fluency in French

Generous donations to local conservation societies and animal shelters

A sinister cousin named Eudora, Malcolm, Mortwell or Violette

Enormous smelly dogs named after Saxon kings

A mud room

Mud

I’ve definitely had that guy in that little sports car that OP posted. 😉

Old money: investing in their childrens' education early so they are accepted to an Ivy League university or 7 Sisters college.

New money: Bribing college officials so their academically unprepared children are accepted to an Ivy League university or 7 Sisters college.

threadbare rugs

The billionaires haven taken over. They’re all new money.

Bill Gates, old money; Jeff Bezos, new money.

Summer homes in Maine

R58 Bill Gates is not considered old money. He is from an upper middle class, white background but not old money. Old money like the Sedgewicks and the deForests were listed in the Social Register.

Living on residual income.

Bezos’ stepfather also is upper middle class. He is a white man who came from Cuba. The whites in Cuba were well off before Castro.

All countries have their old money. But with the exception of Europe, the really rich are mostly new money.

Gates, as did his parents, carries himself like old money.

Nobody in the 21st century could give a fuck about "Old Money." The world and society have moved on.

R54 That may be your opinion but the old money types at the Century Club mock his mansion where the temperature adjusts to the preference of who enters the room.

This thread asks about attributes of old money. Old money homes aren’t “tricked out” with super new technology. They are well-worn.

And no, Warren Buffett, isn’t old money just because you think he carries himself that way.

r66 that world you speak of is now irrelevant. Even the younger generations of Old Money families have joined the 21st century. They don't have threadbare old ramshackle houses filled with antiques and many of them marry outside their narrow circle.

R64 not 54. And you are certainly not the judge of who carries themselves like old money. That’s the whole point, it’s the insiders who decide. You are a simpleton.

Marrying well. There is a family in New Jersey called the Frelinghuysens. These people have been in office, whether in the state or federal government, in some capacity, since Colonial times. They also are very rich. How do they do? Every generation, a member marries into some other wealthy, sometimes richer family, preserving the wealth. They have married beer heirs, sugar refining heirs, the Procter and Gamble people, you name it. Then they reproduce. They also stay under the radar, even though the family includes office holders. One was in Congress until 2018, I think. That is ooooold money, at least in US terms.

R67. Yes, I said that in R49.

R69 Yes, we know them from our Princeton days.

r68 and you're a relic from a time that's passed.

R72 You don’t know me, you’re just upset because I corrected your Gates/Bezos example.

I am not old nor was I born in this country. It was at my prep school and Princeton that the old money taught me these things.

[quote]You don’t know me, you’re just upset because I corrected your Gates/Bezos example.

That wasn't me

[quote]It was at my prep school and Princeton that the old money taught me these things.

God only knows what decade that was.

Old Money people wear sweaters in their houses because they’re drafty.

R74 I came to this country in 2002. I was a child in middle school.

R65 Some people care. I didn’t start this thread.

The Gates/Bezos comment was clearly a joke.

can Joos be Old Money?

Snobs to the core. Their time is over.

In New England they belong to a discreet yacht club.

They summer in Maine or sail the Maine Coast.

Cocktails every night at sunset, if not before.

Refer to everyone in conversation by first names only because, well, we all know each other, dahling.

All the women have ridiculous nicknames: Bunny, Boopsie, Muggins.

Drive cars at least ten years old.

The husbands are all drunks.

They like to hunker down on Star Island.

All the furniture, pricey antiques, are uncomfortable to sit on.

Wives buy Joy perfume by the gallon.

They can't cook to save their lives.

They stay married to keep up appearances.

The women's wardrobes are half-filled with couture and half with L.L. Bean.

[quote]Every generation, a member marries into some other wealthy, sometimes richer family, preserving the wealth. They have married beer heirs, sugar refining heirs, the Procter and Gamble people, you name it. Then they reproduce.

Oh wow, r69. I bet they have a just FABULOUS gene pool.

R81...Star Island in Miami? I don't think so.

[quote]Every generation, a member marries into some other wealthy, sometimes richer family, preserving the wealth. They have married beer heirs, sugar refining heirs, the Procter and Gamble people, you name it. Then they reproduce.

Not with any of the current generations. Again, DLers are living decades in the past.

I think the thing about old money is that is isn't necessarily "really rich". It's just old money. And that can be a profoundly good or bad thing depending on the character of the people involved.

Gravel drives...never paved

Nobody knows what these people are like, get real. The closest you'll get to seeing these people are the royal families (the zoos of the aristocracy).

R87, oh?

Just watched the Slim Aarons documentary on Amazon Prime this weekend. He was a society photographer whose work in the 50s, 60s and 70s defined old guard wealth. Beautiful timeless images that inspired Ralph Lauren and other designers and continues to do so at present day.

Except for R53, our anthropological hero.

A hazard of a life spent north of Hyde Park, as they say, R87.

So they are the ones who won't let Gilligan in their hut?

When your entire home is populated by persons not related to you by blood, it pays to be kind to them if you value not only your life, but that of your spouse, children and family.

Treat servants badly and at very least they will up and leave. At very worse they will murder you and your children in their beds or wherever they can lay hands upon.

British upper classes often treated their servants quite beastly, seeing them as nothing more than bodies to be used for any or various purposes. This was prior to WWI and certainly by between war years. Once the lower classes (from where the servant class was drawn) began leaving service for office, retail, manufacturing, trades or even emigration the "servant problem" became acute.

American families of same period treated their servants far better including offering them employment in homes that had every mod con money could buy.

One can never be too rich or too thin.....

Would have loved to experience 1970's Palm Springs, CA. Old fucking California up to their god damn necks. The lifestyle seems so effortless and beautiful....

The gorgeous and fabulously wealthy Gloira Schiff

To answer OP's query first off OGW you'll need a nickname. Something simple, easy to pronounce yet also remember.

Bunny, Sunny, Reggie, Slim.....

Looks hideous. Look at those awful clothes!

Mayonnaise is considered spicy.

I worked everyday for over 15 years with old guard money -- Robber Baron level (during the gilded age).

Shuns media attention Doesn't talk about money openly CHEAP as HELL except for lawyers, club memberships, restaurants, accountants, and overseas vacations (usually staying at even wealthier persons places) Ridiculous WASP-y names/nicknames Endless family in-fighting and drama LAND Named homes "Family Legacy/History" Board memberships (regardless of competency) Nepotism and sinecures Family foundations (where most of the money went minus the trust funds) Money mostly marries other money

Ladies and gentlemen, I give to you the éminence grise of the idle rich ...

R69

Charming family, I'm just dying to meet them; some time....

They really do know everybody and are related to everyone who matters.

The Frelinghuysens are Jersey trash.

The best guide to American old money is "Class" by Paul Fussell. It's brilliant. Fussell identifies 9 classes, plus "Category X," which exists outside of the class system. (This was ultimately the source of the name "Generation X.")

He sketches out a pinpoint accurate portrait of the "Top Out-of-Sights," as he calls the old money types. (Because you can't see their houses from the road, and they don't mingle much outside their class.) Some of the things he nailed that I found interesting.

In several cases, he draws a parallel between the very upper classes and the very lower classes. What they have in common is no striving to move up in class and no fucks given about what anyone else thinks of them. And, in the case of the "Bottom out-of-sights" (those in institutions or living on the street), they also rarely mingle outside their class.

Top out-of-sights tend to be very boring, even provincial. They have meat-and-potatoes tastes in food, and most everything else. Adventurousness is discouraged. They are incurious.

They don't generally drink fancy name brand liquor. Fussell says they drink to get tight, not to impress anyone with their refined taste in imported vodka or their rare bottle of Pappy Van Winkle.

Others have mentioned this, but -- old, non-ostentatious cars (striving for the new model, or showy cars -- it's all very bourgeois and try-hard).

Houses seldom redecorated. Sometimes old, ratty items handed down from great-granny. Nothing trendy. They aren't gonna bother redecorating their kitchen because they have a cook and they don't spend much time in the kitchen other than to nip in for ice or something.

In short: They don't give a flying fuck about impressing you or asserting their class. In fact, it's better if most people don't know the size of their fortune. It just breeds resentment, danger, and more hands out for handouts.

I know a couple old money families (one has a couple presidents in the family tree, another was on the original board of the empire state building) and yes, these markers are right. there might be the visual artist member of the family who sort of mingles a bit too freely with other classes, but they are generally stay at home, nothing showy types, they may vacation in gstaad, but generally rather provincial.

Will gay men ever stop slobbering over the wealthy and the elite? It’s so grotesque.

horrors

Capitalize, R105. If you're proud enough to capitalize your "I," you can extend yourself for an entire region of Bern.

And it's really nothing special to have presidents in one's background. Look at all of Jefferson's descendants.

I heard a lot of the furniture in the fifth Avenue apartment of Jackie Kennedy onassis, was somewhat ratty and worn out. I guess that's what some of you mean.

Eventhough you'd expect different from a former American first lady.

The Kardashians are the very epitome of ostentatious trashy new $$$. Before their reality TV fame, and billion dollar bank accounts. They were just upper middle class in hidden hills California.

But reality tv money and all of the various business ventures economically put them in the billionaire upper classes. The Kardashian-Jenners like so many today, made a massive fortune through the internet. Internet billionaires really are the ones with the real money nowadays, not the so called old guard.

Pat Boone is old money

R104 your description makes me feel bad for them.

[quote]The best guide to American old money is "Class" by Paul Fussell. It's brilliant. Fussell identifies 9 classes, plus "Category X," which exists outside of the class system.

Yeah, if you're looking for a guide that was relevant four decades ago.

R113, that's exactly the point -- for old money, nothing has changed, really, in the intervening decades. And "Class" is certainly still relevant, especially for the "top out-of-sights," "blue bloods," "old money," or whatever your chosen term is. Others' observations here clearly bear that out.

Just looking up the book and noticing that it's not new doesn't count as a trenchant observation. Try reading it.

I love Class, was flogging it here on DL the other day. But I think Fussell was best on the middle classes. He probably didn't have more social contact with uppers than most of us here. His main point on them is that they are intellectually lazy. They have no reason to try.

[quote] that's exactly the point -- for old money, nothing has changed, really, in the intervening decades. And "Class" is certainly still relevant, especially for the "top out-of-sights," "blue bloods," "old money," or whatever your chosen term is. Others' observations here clearly bear that out.

[quote]Just looking up the book and noticing that it's not new doesn't count as a trenchant observation. Try reading it.

But old money families don't live like that anymore, except for the very old folks. The ones of my generation aren't in dusty old houses full of ratty old furniture. They're full participants in the modern world. Even many of the ones from the Boomer generation are not like what Fussell described,

They're generally funny looking, you don't know who they are, they don't talk about money (though they think about it all the time) and they don't like publicity, so when you read about them, you don't know who they are. Generally, they have good manners.

R115, yes, and it's clear he doesn't much like the old-money folks either. You got the crux of his opinions: intellectually dull, pedestrian tastes, boring and lazy in every way except when it comes to holding on to what they have.

[quote] Fussell identifies 9 classes, plus "Category X," which exists outside of the class system. (This was ultimately the source of the name "Generation X.")

No, it wasn't. The source was Douglas Coupland's book "Generation X."

[italic]Money and Class in America[/italic] by Lewis H. Lapham is another insightful book on this subject. Lapham was an oil baron heir. Went to Hotchkiss, Yale and Cambridge. Was Editor of Harper’s Magazine for 30 years.

And his son is married to the daughter of Brian Mulroney, making said son brother-in-law to the lovely and talented Jessica Mulroney, much remarked upon of late.

R119, from Wikipedia, Coupland discusses the source of "Generation X":

Coupland has presented different narratives concerning the origin of the title Generation X. In one version, the title came from the work of Paul Fussell.[4] In Fussell's 1983 book Class, the term category X designated a part of America's social hierarchy rather than a generation. As Coupland explained in a 1995 interview, "In his final chapter, Fussell named an 'X' category of people who wanted to hop off the merry-go-round of status, money, and social climbing that so often frames modern existence." However, in a 1989 magazine article[5] Coupland attributed the term Generation X to Billy Idol, since it’s the name of the band Idol broke through with.

[quote] boring and lazy in every way except when it comes to holding on to what they have.

Its not easy to sustain wealth through successive generations. And the type of work they do to maintain their wealth is not really recognizable as work to the plebs. Not many are going to give away their fortune and embrace the hardships of the middle-class.

The rich have their own problems, no more need to minimize theirs any more than your own.

We have had a few posters here over the years who have known old guard rich people and have written very amusing posts about them. There was one guy who was hired to take care of some family's quail hunting dogs when they went on vacation a few times per year that was funny.

R123 Many people from old money have law degrees, work on Wall Street or have medical degrees. It is very difficult to sustain wealth unless you collect massive amounts of rent (economic rent, not just leasing apartments).

Traditionally marriage was between families so that power and money could mutually be sustained.

My elderly parents are currently paying their housekeeper her full salary and grocery bills while she stays at home with her family. We are neither old nor new money. We just have class.

"such as torte law in Spanish Florida"

Oh Dear!

only new money would smuggle a file into prison in a cake.

Keeping the wealth over generations is as easy as marrying the kids off to the nouveau riche and then tutoring the offspring. Too bad some old money didn't fix the Trumps for us.

Edith Wharton is better for this than Fussell.

The two Trump boys will lose everything they have.

The Trumps are persona non grata in the old money circles.

[quote]The Trumps are persona non grata

O cara.

The Trumps are [italic]personae non gratae[/italic].

That's the problem, R132. He bigly wanted to rule Manhattan society. Now we all have to suffer.

R81 can you let me know if that is Joy perfume by Jean Patou, or Joy perfume by Dior?

R83 I think R81 is mentioning Star Island off the coast of Maine/New Hampshire, not the Star Island of Miami Beach Florida?

So where does the Hiltons fit into all of this talk of New VS Old Money?

They're showy, but not in the way that other trashy whorie family is. They're still somewhat traditional in how they carry themselves, but in a Hollywood way of course.

New, but not, you know, new new

CULTURE March 2009

Class Dismissed A new status anxiety is infecting affluent hipdom

SANDRA TSING LOH MARCH 2009 ISSUE The Big Sort BY BILL BISHOP HOUGHTON MIFFLIN The Return of the Player BY MICHAEL TOLKIN GROVE/ATLANTIC Class BY PAUL FUSSELL TOUCHSTONE SOME 25 YEARS have passed since the publication of Paul Fussell’s naughty treat Class: A Guide Through the American Status System, and I think this quarter-century mark merits the raising of either a yachting pennant, an American flag, or a wind sock with the Budweiser logo (corresponding to Fussell’s demarcations of Upper Class, Middle Class, and Prole). For readers who somehow missed this snide, martini-dry American classic, do have your assistant Tessa run out and get it immediately (Upper), or at least be sure to worriedly skim this magazine summary over a low-fat bagel (Middle), because Fussell’s bibelot-rich tropes still resonate.

Back in 1983, Fussell—author of the renowned book The Great War and Modern Memory—argued that although Americans loathe discussing social class, this relatively new, rugged country of ours did indeed have a British-style class system, if less defined by money than by that elusive quality called taste. To be sure, Fussell’s universe is somewhat passé, in that its population is almost exclusively white (with the Mafia thrown in for color), and the three “classes” in his opening primer conform to clichés we might think of as Old-Money WASP, Midwestern Insurance Salesman, and Southern Trailer Trash. The top classes, according to Fussell (with a hint of Nancy Mitford), drink Scotch on the rocks in a tumbler decorated with sailboats and say “Grandfather died”; Middles say “Martooni” and “Grandma passed away”; Proles drink domestic beer in a can and say “Uncle was taken to Jesus.”

The still-fresh guilty pleasure of the reading, however, comes from the insistent unspooling, with an almost Ptolemaic complexity, of Fussell’s cocktail-party-ready argument.

Probably Patou, r135. Dior is so common.

And r182, I was at Princeton with Joy Frelinghuysen, and she was genuinely Ralph-Lauren-model gorgeous, so she obviously didn't do too badly out of her gene pool.

* meant to address r82, not 182 above

I was at school with a number of guys who would qualify as coming from "old guard wealth". I was good friends with two brothers who were a year older and a year younger than me. One became a veterinarian and the other worked for a number of high end department stores as a buyer. They both make decent incomes from their jobs, but they were trust fund babies and inherited a great deal of money when their parents died and lead pretty good lives not possible with just their working income. The family money came from very safe and conservative investments so they aren't hugely impacted by changes in the stock market.

Their mother was very proud of them for, in her words, "not going down the Wall Street route" (she mentioned that to me several times) and for having "regular, interesting jobs". You wouldn't expect it coming from a woman who belonged to a rich and prominent family with a well-known name. One of her sons (the gay one) told me she was often asked by her friends why they chose "unlikely careers". His mother would laugh and respond, "Well, I don't know about yours, but my children are happy."

[Quote][R64] not 54. And you are certainly not the judge of who carries themselves like old money. That’s the whole point, it’s the insiders who decide. You are a simpleton.

Insiders like you with your ad hominem attacks?

r15 that's all well and good but it appears that THE old money families all did the things you talked about, yet their descendants remain respected. It's just funny when old money types and the people that look up to them like to rewrite history acting like they are some gentle types.

I will always love this scene from Billions about the come-up of new money over a stuffy old-money family.

Genteel* not gentle.

r134 Trump did not want to rule Manhattan, he just wanted cheap fame. If he wanted to rule Manhattan he wouldn't have been basically a hermit while married to Melania. They barely went out in public according to those in the know about NYC.

Then why didn't he stay in Queens?

r146 because it's fucking Queens, lol. He wanted to make a name for himself but he wasn't ruling shit. NYC titans weren't going to Atlantic City.

R109

Nothing uncommon about "ratty" furniture at all; you see same thing in castles and other homes of nobility, "old money" wealth, etc... all over UK and Europe. These are families so old as to be ancient, and have more than enough money to throw things out and buy new, and or have pieces redone.

Given love of dogs by some British and French families it also isn't uncommon to give them free access to entire house. This includes making themselves at home on expensive (but now often threadbare upholstered furniture, or cuddling up in the miles of fabric pooling on floor from drapes.

As a young lad Prince Charles lost a dog lead; upon informing HM, the Queen sent him right back out to find the thing telling the young prince "dog leads cost money....".

In film "Metropolitan" one of the Park avenue debutants has a problem with her dress; the mother comes in, examines dress and takes it away to get her sewing kit. That woman or family easily could have given girl money for a new dress, but that isn't how things are done.

They were the UHBs, R148, not the uppers.

R126

Until pushed out by the Jews, "old money" (as in WASP) dominated publishing, advertising, good amount of banking/finance and in many local areas (certainly New York City) real estate. They were also well represented in the "gentlemanly" professions of law, medicine, architecture.

Other area of course was politics (think Roosevelt family), and or government appointments. At one time US Department Of State was totally dominated by WASPS from "old families" , this went on right up until and through WWII.

Henry Morgenthau Jr. was Secretary of the Treasury to FDR and one of few Jews in that administration. His efforts at rescuing Jews from Holocaust in Germany/Europe were continuously frustrated by old money WASPS who controlled state department.

Even when not exactly from old money or WASP backgrounds those who have attended their institutions of learning and higher education held and hold large numbers of influential positions in government, law, business, etc..

Of 44 POTUS 16 have their undergraduate and or law degrees from Ivy League colleges/universities. The SCOTUS though varied by race and religion still resembles a public works project for Harvard, Yale and Columbia.

You wish the SCOTUS varied by religion, R150.

Unless all Protestant and then no Protestant counts as varied.

[quote]f he wanted to rule Manhattan he wouldn't have been basically a hermit while married to Melania. They barely went out in public according to those in the know about NYC.

They never went out because in good company they are considered toxic and as such were never invited.

Food-stained tie

Justice Gorsuch is the only Protestant on the Supreme Court. The rest are Jews and Catholics.

Gorsuch is a crypto-Catholic.

Zero criminal history, no matter what.

r157, “behind every great fortune is a great crime.”

Hundreds of empty cat food cans lying about; or was it Pâté?

You tell ‘em, R29. We love Lady Colin Campbell!

The house from the OP is always worth a look.

R158 What I mean is someone from Old Money living today has no verifiable criminal history no matter what they have done.

Lady Colin is a big tranny. A big fun tranny.

Was that house in one of the Gatsby movies? It seems familiar.

R164

Marble House, a Vanderbilt mansion (or rather summer cottage) in Newport was location for 1974 Great Gatsby. Not sure about 2013 version.

R162

I'm sorry?

You don't have a clue do you? Not a single one........

r166 ew. He was 34 and living off of $1000 a week? That's basically a COVID unemployment check. Like for a rich guy with a Princeton education, that's not a lot of money. I suppose he wasn't picking up any dinner tabs.

R153

Back in the go-go 1980's DT and Ivana were everywhere; charity events, society balls, Paris fashion week...

By the 1990's came various setbacks to DT's business fortunes, piled onto the scandal of Marla Maples, a very nasty divorce from Ivana, more business setbacks..... Then another divorce (from Marla) dredged up more fodder for scandal.

Again as has been mentioned already; DT is from a middle class Queens, NY background. He never bothered nor really seemed to want in to NYC society unless they did so on his terms. For their part much of NYC society saw DT as not just HKLP sort, but a scheming and conniving bounder who only wanted into society for what he could get out of it.

He “looks” rich to those who don’t know better.

E187. The rare exception that proves the rule.

Trump is poor racist dirty deplorables idea of what the real wealthy elite is. And of course they're wrong.

Trump will always be gaudy tacky cheap trash.

When you google them NOTHING shows up unless a wing in a building is named after you.

Today's new money doesn't get that.

So is Trump considered Old Money or New Money?

[bold] The One Where DLers Pretend It Is Still 1957.

You have to ask, R174? Did you even read the thread?

R173

Oh I don't know... It's a mixed bag.

"Sanford I. Weill, a Wall Street billionaire, and his wife, Joan, have decided not to donate $20 million to a struggling northern New York college after a judge ruled that it could not be renamed for Mrs. Weill, college officials said on Thursday.

The donation had been offered on the condition that Paul Smith’s College change its name to Joan Weill-Paul Smith’s College. Mrs. Weill has been actively involved with the college’s development for more than two decades and served on the board of trustees."

OTOH David Geffen got Avery Fisher Hall renamed after donating a pile of money.

Here in NYC you can't get away from things named Tisch, Loeb, Weil, and other associated new money names.

R178 But they needed to pay off the Avery Fishers to do so.

R174 I think Trump is considered more Dirty/Mob Money more than anything else.

He is also a media whore and both of those things are anathema to the Old Money types.

Old money can be quite a burden, such as when your slutty daughter-in-law murders your son and you have to mobilize money and Society to make sure the guilty whore is acquitted so as to preserve the dignity of the family name.

Old guard wealth does not give interviews complaining about how no one has asked them if they are "okay".

Glad someone brought up Anne Woodward. Mentioned her once and didn't want to seem harping on about the woman.

In television dramatization of book "The Two Mrs. Grenvilles ", Alice Grenville (played by Claudette Colbert) shows how things are done.

When the slag DIL Ann Arden Grenville (played by Ann Margaret) is arrested for the murder of her son, Alice Grenville springs into action.

One of her first telephone calls is to the governor, there Mrs. Grenville senior calls in old favors and plays on familial connections to get Ann Grenville moved to a mental ward instead of jail where she was currently being held.

That mission accomplished Alice Grenville then rings up publisher of local newspaper where a reporter has been covering the murder story, and digging up all sorts of sensational dirt. Again playing on connections Mrs. Grenville Sr. asks the publisher to "lean" on said reporter, and or otherwise put an end to the nasty media coverage. Alice Grenville even throws in "the Grenvilles will be very generous at your next charity...." as a sweetener. Her daughters are rather confused by their mothers actions on Ann Grenville's behalf, and Alice explains it had nothing to do with Ann per se; but that there was quite a lot of dirt in that marriage she didn't want coming out.

Later when Ann Grenville tries to give her MIL the queen bee treatment, Alice Grenville basically says "who do you think you are?". She goes on to say just how does Ann thing she got removed from jail to her current accommodations that required action by governor who is sole person in state with authority to make such a decision. Throwing in "or do you think this is your rightful due?"

Leaving aside who did or didn't murder William Woodward, saddest thing was the collateral damage. We can dispute whether or not Ann Woodard was no better than she should have been, and got what she deserved in the end, but it is the sons you feel sorry for most, both dead by their own hands.

They're all up in Woodlawn now; Woodward pere (murdered). Woodward madame et mere (suicide), et les fils Woody and Jimmy (suicides)

Donald Trump didn’t want to give to charity. This is important in all rich circles.

Over here, asset rich, cash poor. Generally drive beat up old cars. Excellent manners. Don’t give a fig what people think of them. Hatred of artifice and hypocrisy usually.

Maybe R53 had this in mind, R128

After college, I was a nanny for a family on Martha's Vineyard; they weren't rich in the Vanderbilt/to the manor born sense, but both parents came from wealthy families. They were horrified that their youngest son didn't want to learn how to sail (the kid was just fucking with them), they drove shabby old cars even though they could've afforded better and when they'd buy expensive items, like this beautiful couch, they left it in a spot in the house getting direct sunlight so in a brief period of time, the fabric faded (and of course they didn't care that the kids regularly ate on the couch & spilled shit). To them, it was like money was something that was always there, so they didn't really care about it or worry about much things cost the way most people do. Moreover, they didn't care so much about education, but cared about the types of things they expected their kids to know how to do, like sail, play lacrosse, go to certain types of camps & hang out with other kids with similar backgrounds. It's like they didn't worry about the typical middle class striving.

r187 I don't know what decade you are talking about, but education and careers are much more of a priority and lots of emphasis is placed on it because the modern world is much more competitive. Back in the day if you were from a blue blood family you were guaranteed placement in an Ivy League and a lucrative professional career you could walk into. Not anymore.

Correct, r188. That chute from a prep school to an Ivy ended in the late 1960s. GW Bush was part of the last cohort where that still worked. Now coming from a well-off white family is almost as big a disadvantage for Ivy admission as being Asian. Even legacies have a hard time getting in these days.

You can still go from a prep school to a reputable second-tier college to a career in the family company, though -- although you'll probably need to get an MBA somewhere along the way. Of course, that only helps you if the family company survives contemporary capitalism and COVID.

R188 All the wealthy families I know care quite a bit about education. Life will get harder with climate change catastrophes coming more frequently and an education can never be taken away. With an education comes networks and skills. Even now, having a good education gives you flexibility. It’s often the nouveau ruche who spend gobs of money on clothes.

*riche

Come, not comes

R189

Exactly!

When Claude Upston speaks of Patrick Denis future as "I can slip him into a berth on Madison Avenue or a seat on the stock exchange.", that went out by 1960's, the twilight years of when WASPS still had any sort of lock on adverting, publishing, banking or finance... to extent even an idiot son or SIL could be palmed off somewhere. Those days are long gone...

[quote] When Claude Upston speaks of Patrick Denis future as "I can slip him into a berth on Madison Avenue or a seat on the stock exchange.", that went out by 1960's

Thank you. I got my job solely on my intelligence and hard work!!!!!

R193 is correct. Nepotism died in the sixties. Just like racism.

Maybe just the classy kind of nepotism is dead.

Nepotism hasn’t died but it’s not what it once was. The percentage of legacy admissions at top schools is much lower and there’s more competition from people, like the Kushners, who donate money for the same spots.

[quote] The percentage of legacy admissions at top schools is much lower and there’s more competition from people, like the Kushners, who donate money for the same spots.

One man's donation is another woman's bribe.

The Old Guard is really dying out now, very few of the authentic ones left

Tattered 50 yesr old cardigan sweaters and darned socks. They are mandated

wearing dead parents or grandparents' clothes, why throw out perfectly good stuff

Wool rugs.

Ancient rusting Mercedes diesel station Wagons

In-breeding and hemophilia.

Old money is no money.

Ha.

The older the money, the greater the dowd factor.

Expect dust and rust.

So old money is more like $100 million. While new tech money is more like $6 billion? Is that the ratio between the two classes?

What's the car in OP?

[quote] After college, I was a nanny for a family on Martha's Vineyard;

And since this is Datalounge, we can assume the story is set about 40 or 50 years in the past and thus the anecdotes rendered are only of historical value.

Prep to Ivy and little Ivy is still a thing. One of the defining characteristics of old money that I've noted has been a tendency to tell you about 2/3 of their story. A colleague told me where he grew-up in suburban Cleveland and where his mother was from (a place where old money winters). I didn't need to know any more about him---his name is not unusual but in Cleveland it's old money. He didn't need to tell me anything more and didn't ask me where I was from---we understood and it would have been gauche to ask anything further about his family background. I've known people from non-old money background who do this, but it's more obvious that they're playing a game. The Old Money people don't want to talk about the obvious, although they care that you know. The wannabes really want you to guess what they left out.

I recognise a lot of this from England. How does Old Money vote?

You should only have your picture in the newspaper upon your birth, engagement/marriage, death. Later included, your deb events.

R8, Would that really be true, that "the women are all secret lesbians?" Considering that so many of their husbands have secret affairs ie "Do whatever you want but don't ever scare the horses" I've always wondered.

Men don't necessarily work a regular job but have an all consuming hobby.

"All the men have offices to get mail, but no one really works there."

"The weekends are very long, you leave on a Thursday and come back on a Tuesday."

I heard those from Anne Slater on the old Dominick Dunne show, "power privilege and justice."

r199 serves them right for having more than one child and dividing their wealth between the children. should have just given the estates to the oldest male (carry the name) and give the rest of the brood well funded trusts that they can access at 25. Rinse and repeat like the British did. But no, they broke up land and wealth. Their industries are also older and can't compete with the internet corporations. It's ok, a new 21st century old guide is forming.

Anonymity, except in the toniest of enclaves, as well as the dirtiest of mobs.

Daughters on the equestrian circuit; male scions on the polo one.

Yachts moored in Monaco; money parked in the Caymans (or Trump Towers, heh).

First crack at diamonds, IPOs, and politicians.

Marjorie Gubelmann is as “old WASP money” as they come and she’s flashier and more of a press whore than the most nouveau riche arriviste you can think of.

Yes there is some truth in some of these traits but a lot of the stuff listed here is fetishized bullshit.

Well, then separate the wheat from the chaff, R217. Tell us what’s what, if you know.

Why the hell is someone like Marjorie Gubblman a damn DJ? Does she do it for $?

The Hiltons aren't old money, they're mid-century modern money (most of the fortune dates to the 1940s and 50s.) Real old money goes back to the 19th Century (or earlier.)

The Hilton hotels first started in 1919, So your right. I've never thought of them as old money either.

But I guess their getting there.

It’s about restraint.

It's about cuffs and restraints

Understated, discreet, and not showy.

[quote] the go-go 1980's

I detest this phrase.

The Hiltons have been wealthy for 100 years. At this point, they deserve to be considered old money. The Vanderbilts and Rockerfellers were considered old money by the 1980s and their fortunes were only 100 years old, at the most. This country is 243 years old. The Hilton's have been wealthy for nearly 90-100 years of that time. I say they deserve to be called old money. It's lasted about 4 generations.

How do you all define old money?

[quote] How do you all define old money?

If you have to ask...

Old money is at least 3 generations.

Savoir faire.

Triscuits

tattered Brooks Brothers underpants