Manafort's acquittal

Wouldn't that just result in a mistrial / hung jury? And a new trial for Manafart? The OJ jurors berated the "guilty" holdout jurors into voting "not guilty," if memory serves.

I hope you're wrong, OP. I hope not. because that would make Mueller appear weak. Now if there's a hung jury they can re try the case. But if the jury acquits him, the judge can always vacate the jury's decision and find him guilty. Then the Defense will appeal. I think that's how it might go. But honestly there was enough evidence of wrong doing to convict him.

The trial has been ridiculous especially that judge. It wouldn't surprise me in the least.

It takes a unanimous jury to convict or acquit. I swear, some people know nothing about the judicial system. (I'm looking at you, OP.)

Unless you are a major lottery winner OP, you will excuse me if I don't reply on your powers of prediction, you are just another person with an opinion. Since it is a pretty good guess that you didn't hear a single second of testimony lets make that your guess, not opinion.

Yep, OP doesn't seem the understand the difference between a hung jury and a acquittal. Oh dear.

One jury member very much cannot cause an acquittal.

OP here...I meant that a series of hung juries are inevitable, and a unanimous guilty decision on any of the counts is impossible.

OP doesn't understand the US legal system

I didn’t know that a jury had to be 100% unanimous in every trial with no exceptions.

Interesting.

I could see Manafort being acquitted because of the disgust over Gates getting a plea deal in order to target Manafort. Gates is a confessed criminal. Also, all of the other people who testified who were immunized will probably not be looked at favorably. Jurors may think that something stinks if the whole gang wasn't tried and just Manafort was.

I'm not sure what OP means by the OJ reference. Totally different circumstances.

R2 - a judge can vacate a guilty verdict. He or she can't vacate a non-guilty verdict.

Juries convict all the time on the word of "confessed criminals". They're called snitches and the government uses them quite frequently.

Motion to acquittal denied.

R9, Please say you aren't an American. Because we have, and always have had, shows and movies up the wazoo about or featuring jury trials.

OP should kill himself.

He will NOT be acquitted.

What are his charges again?

Trump is already planning to pardon him per MSNBC.

For tax fraud? Why would Trump pardon someone he hardly knew?

R14 - R9 wrote that he didn't know that a jury verdict had to be unanimous in all cases. They you criticized him for not knowing this.

Juries don't have to reach a unanimous verdict in all cases. Juries in a civil trial don't have to unanimous. Majority rules.

In state courts, whether a jury needs to be unanimous depends on the state and the type of trial. For criminal trials, nearly every state requires the jury to produce a unanimous verdict.

For civil trials, almost one-third of states only require a majority for a verdict. Some states require a majority if the money at issue in the trial is below a certain amount, and a unanimous verdict all other times.

I know it has to be unanimous to convict. Does it also have to be unanimous to acquit?

Oops, I didn’t read the entire thread above, which I now have. So now I know.

The defense didn't even present any witnesses. This will be not "guilty" so much as "GUILTY!!!! with extreme prejudice.". You don't need a believable witness if you can follow the money.

"But if the jury acquits him, the judge can always vacate the jury's decision and find him guilty."

Oh, my people! My people!

R2, somehow you failed to learn the most fundamental, bed rock, principle of the American criminal justice system. Please tell us how you did that???

if Trump pardons Manafort it'll be Obstruction.

Manafort pardoned is probably of more use to Mueller. He will have testify and will have no access to the Fifth Amendment as he will face no legal jeopardy. If he lies while testifying, then he can be tried and potentially convicted for his perjury. And then what? Trump pardons him again? That loop never ends.

If Manafort is acquitted, Mueller is finished. The defense certainly seems to think they have it in the bag since they’ve basically not bothered to mount one.

What are the chances of getting Manafort for perjury? Any?

Maybe Mueller anticipated this. He isn't a dumb man. He does think strategically. So Manafort is tried for bank fraud separate and apart from the Russia investigation. He'll probably get convicted. Then he becomes bait. Mueller is waiting for Trump to pardon Manafort. Manafort still has another trial pending. He is also under investigation in the Russia probe. This is just the first step.

[quote] R28: The defense certainly seems to think they have it in the bag since they’ve basically not bothered to mount one.

Or, the defense had no credible character witnesses. And had no way to refute the incontrovertible evidence. I keep hearing that the case is solid.

He exaggerated his income to get loans. Then he minimized his income to reduce his taxes. He failed to report foreign bank accounts. These are all illegal. Should be easy to understand by the jury.

I think Manafort knows Trump intends to pardon him.

The prosecution case was so, so strong. Tons of evidence Manafort hid money he got from foreign sources and laundered it to get it into the US.

Gates was an accomplished and he pled guilty to something smaller because he testified against Manafort.

No way Gates did this all on his own in some sinister way. Manafort was the head of it all. The jury isn't stupid.

I think Manafort is afraid of Russian retaliation.

Isn't Manafort also facing state charges? My understanding is Trump can't pardon him for state charges.

Bingo, R34. He would rather rot in jail than see his wife and daughters get offed by Putin's operatives.

The defense - if the special counsel hadn't been poking around, they never would have found any of this evidence. Seriously???

If Manafort gets a pardon and gets his passport back, he'll leave the country and never be heard from again.

It’s not looking good for Mueller. The defense was very happy with the jury questions today. He’s going to get away with it.

[quote] He’s going to get away with it.

He's facing 18 charges. He'll likely be acquitted on some counts, but beating all of them is pretty unlikely. It's like being shot at with a shotgun at close range. Some of the pellets may miss, but not all of them. And it only takes a couple to really fuck you up good.

I hope you’re right R39, because right now it’s looking like everyone is going to be getting away with it. And yes, cunts, I’m concern trolling, because if this one domino doesn’t fall in Mueller’s direction, it’s going to be very very bad for the country and his investigation.

considering these yahoos needed the judge to explain what reasonable doubt is i have little faith in their decision making abilities

Those jurors are hating life right now. There has got to be at least one deplorable who is making their lives miserable.

I served on a Federal jury. The judge will insist that deliberations continue at the slightest evidence that the jury can’t agree on a verdict. He does not want a hung jury and he has ways of preventing it—making miserable people even more miserable.

Ha,wishful thinking.....Manafort still has NY state fraud charges to deal with in September.You forgot this is just his 1st trial.Mueller loaded him up,even if the justice obstructing circus clown living on Pennsylvania Ave decides to pardon (I hope he does,but i feel like he won't. ...his party will crucify him on a backwards cross)

it's very clear at this point that there is at least 1 fucking deplorable piece of shit who is refusing to believe Manafort did anything wrong because Trump is his/her/their god and this is all a left wing hunt!1!1!1!

I'll be shocked at this point if Manafort is convicted of all the charges. There are plenty of charges that seem straight forward but deplorables have proven they DO NOT CARE ABOUT FACTS. If they did, they wouldn't be supporting Trump

and all a deplorable juror would have to do is turn on Fox "News" to be brainwashed into thinking the Manafort case is all political and no crimes were committed. There's no way with internet and phones now to stop this from happening

Its not looking great for a guilty verdict as they are still deliberating what should have been a quick guilty verdict in the first day.

Am I correct in understanding that the jury must vote unanimously to either convict, or to aquit? And anything else would be a mistrial?

[quote]Its not looking great for a guilty verdict as they are still deliberating what should have been a quick guilty verdict in the first day.

They have 18 separate counts to consider. If they’re being thorough and reviewing evidence for each one, it’s conceivable that this could go on for several more days. It’s also possible that they are finding it easy to reach unanimous verdicts on a dozen or more of the counts and they’re laboring over a small handful. There’s just no way to know.

[quote]considering these yahoos needed the judge to explain what reasonable doubt is i have little faith in their decision making abilities

Per Chuck Rosenberg, a former federal prosecutor now an MSNBC commentator, this is a fairly common question from juries.

Right, R49, and thank you. He also said that in many of the cases he has tried the jury asked for a definition of and/or clarification about reasonable doubt. According to Rosenberg, in most (if not all) of those cases, the jury returned a guilty verdict.

When you’re deciding whether or not to send a person to jail for life, I think it’s the smart thing to do, to get the standard defined for you by the judge.

R46 they have a mountain of evidence to go through and they were hoping on the first day, once they listened to the judge's instructions, then picked a foreman, to go through the mountains of evidence and match exhibits to the documents, etc. it's pretty impossible to complete that, review all the documentation, and r discuss it and reach a verdict in one day. Or two days for that matter. I never expected a quick verdict. I always expected them to take three or four days to really look at everything ask questions and then discuss it. So by day four if they aren't forthcoming then I may start to get concerned.

I’m wondering how voir dire went in the beginning. The judge did deny the defense request to ask prospective jurors whom they voted for. However, something had to come up about “WITCH HUNT!” I couldn’t find info about what the jurors were asked during jury selection, but I’m actually not terribly worried about deplorables on the panel. Yes, they could lie, but generally deplorables like to shout from the rooftops that anything related to Mueller’s probe is a witch hunt.

Are there any on this jury who voted from Trump? Possibly, but I’d think the prosecution did well to weed out the hardcore loons who didn’t think this former Trump campaign manager could do no wrong. Then again, nothing suprises me now.

This is a federal trial, all rulings must be unanimous for the jury. They do have a lot of charges to wade through. This takes time. A full acquittal seems very unlikely.

I'm ok with them taking their time and doing it right.

^loons who didn’t think this former campaign manager could do [italic]any[/italic] wrong.

The context was criminal trials, r20 and r21.

Still no verdict and jury is done for the day. They stayed later today than usual though

Still no verdict and jury is done for the day. They stayed later today than usual though

1 major issue the fucking idiot judge Ellis didn't allow certain documents to be presented in the case so the jury is seeing them for the first time

Manafort may be a creep but this reeks of prosecuturial overreach.

Oh God

The title of this thread is misleading, I almost had a conniption.

it was some pearl clutching concern troll, r62. And the saner folk have taken over to discuss the case without clogging up the general treason threads.

I'm sure that once a verdict is reached, there will be a "BREAKING!!!" news thread.

The only reason TRE45ONOUS is still in office, is those who could remove him still haven't agreed on what happens next.

Nothing unusual in what's going on.

Eat it OP!

Manafort found guilty on 8 counts of bank and tax fraud, per the news now.

Op is a dummy

OP would make a good tv psychic.