Idris Elba Likely To Be The Next Bond

Looking at his pants, they will have to change his name to 008.5

Learn to type, OP.

I'm all for casting a non-white guy as Bond, but I think they need to start with an actor younger than 45. He needs to be able to do the role for two or three movies with a couple years between each.

DL fave Sam Heughan for the next Bond!

[quote]Michael B Jordan who would be around 33-34 when the next post Daniel Craig Bond movie comes out, would be better choice.

While I agree that Elba may be a bit long in the tooth, Jordan lacks the badassery gravitas that Elba has. It needs to be someone in his late 30s and able to sustain the role through at least 4-5 movies.

The mistake they made was to make James Bond an individual person, rather than a title like Q or M. One of the most popular internet theories was that James Bond was a code name held by several people. They shouldn't have directly addressed that point in the last movie and left themselves the option.

Personally, if they're going non-white guy and Elba is too old, I'd go with Chiwetel Ejiofor. He'd bring of the old suave, thinking man's Bond back along with the kickass.

Not going to happen. He is too old to play Bond and a black Bond is quite risky. People get very attached to nostalgia and generally didn't react well to this kind of changes.

Elba is a very good actor (like Daniel Craig) and could give the character some deep, but as i say i don't think it'll happen, if they finally took the risk they will choose a younger actor who can play the role for a good while

R7 Especially after audiences didn't accept Alden Ehrenreich as Han Solo

[quote][R7] Especially after audiences didn't accept Alden Ehrenreich as Han Solo

It's not really the same thing as the Solo movie. Fans started bitching when they announced the movie - no one wanted it. Ehrenreich's casting was merely another bad choice on top of the bad script.

Elba's name has been tossed around a couple times, and few people had a problem with his being black. His age, however, may be more of an issue. A lot of fans like Elba - the Gunslinger movie adaption was terrible, but people were excited for him in the role itself.

Now, if they made Bond a woman, there would be an outcry.

Bond is a character with many years on the market, it was born in novels, and people won't wellcome changes. People reacted really bad at Daniel Craig, i remember comments about a blond Bond being not a real Bond. Fortunately his first movie was really good (way better than most on the saga) and he is a good actor (way better than most Bonds).

Bond is a character that needed a revamp and Craig did a good job with that

To be honest i think it's better to create new characters, they could create a black spy and introduce him in one of the Bond movies, and if people like the character they could get a new saga.

R9: Last time they tossed his name was a little implossion on internet. Some people thought it was pushing and agenda and that changing Bond's race didn't make sense, and some people calling the other's racists

Like Santa, James Bond is white. He just is.

R11: Well, the truth is James Bond is white because that's the way Ian Flemming wrote him. Of course Dorian Gray is blond and all actors playing him lately are brunette. The Simon of the Simon vs the homo sapiens agenda is short and Nick Robinson is tall

I read it here on datalounge that the producers were delaying this next film with Craig because they wanted the excuse that Elba aged out to avoid casting him next time.

I love Ejiofor and he's certainly urbane, but can he be cruel?

[quote]Well, the truth is James Bond is white because that's the way Ian Flemming wrote him.

Who cares? The producers of the movies now own the rights to the character. They have taken many, many liberties with the original character as written over decades. Anyone who says there cannot be a black Bond because (insert reason here) is just wrong, if not racist and wrong.

Unless I'm mistaken, Flemming never wrote M as a woman, either. Yet the movies with Dame Judy playing the role made a huge, huge amount of money. Enough to bring Craig back as Bond after he said he was done.

R14: Obviously the people who had a bad reaction about Idris Elba being the new Bond the last time cared.

And i'm sorry but i don't think all people who had a bad reaction are racist, people get too attached (maybe too much) to their young idols and after a certain age they don't react well to the changes.

In my opinion it's quite lazy to change the race of a character instead of create a new character. And i know that Hollywood does this all the time but that doesn't mean people have to like it. The way to make a movie with a black superhero is what happened with Black Panther. First they introduced the character in an Avengers movie, and then they did his movie (and a good one). The result, a magnificent box office

For a black actor Bond would be an opportunity but a big risk too because if the movie flop his career will be over (at least for a good while)

Roger Moore was 46 when he took over the role

He would be great as Bond, and who cares what color he is. He’s handsome and charismatic enough for the part. I never got into the Bond movies with Daniel Craig.

R16: We are in a totally different era

R17: But the truth is Bond as a franchise was dead and buried and he resurrected it

Perhaps the producers want a minority actor but they don't want a franchise with him, just a one-shot movie. That way they can say they've filled their minority quota and go back to whitey with a clear conscience.

Love Idris..... But sorry, not Bond. A new character in the Bond series...absolutely, but Bond 007 is a white man. Sorry,,not sorry.

[quote] Who cares? The producers of the movies now own the rights to the character. They have taken many, many liberties with the original character as written over decades.

It's become less and less interesting. Craig is terrible. I'll pass on Elba.

Matt Bomer would be perfect IF he had more personality.

The Bond franchise could have an interesting new spell on life just with today's headlines - oligarchs, Silicon Valley sociopathic nerds, data mining, offshore companies, nerve poisoning, Russian infiltration in France USA U.K., Neonazis

A black Bond is less interesting. Color and identity politics becomes a factor so meh. One might go for a MTF trans #metoo Jane Bond too. Just no more conflicted action hero Craig please.

He’s old and crusty looking like Daniel Craig so check✔️

Idris is great. He's great as Luther. He's great as Stringer Bell, He's great as Heimdall... but he' s not Bond.

My opinion (and I 'm NOT racist, so don't bother haranguing ...) is that's it's kind of patronising to black actors when they talk about 'A Black Bond', like it's some kind of box to be ticked. It's like recasting Sherlock Holmes...' Ooh...let's be diverse and edgy and make him black' Why? What does that add ? Just write good, interesting new characters in new movies and cast talented actors- of all colours.

[quote] like it's some kind of box to be ticked [...] Ooh...let's be diverse and edgy and make him black' Why? What does that add ?

Taking your point, maybe his being black adds nothing. On the other hand, if he's a good actor and fits the role then, so be it for a "black Bond."

Any other boxes you don't want 'ticked'? Which would be more offensive or tick too many boxes: American, short, too tall, Welsh, female, Irish, fat, Indian, cockney, or whatever? What about a mixed-race Bond who went to all the right schools and can do the posh accent?

Just asking

I can't imagine there ever being a non-Brit as Bond

I thought DL said James Norton would be the next James Bond.

I forgot about Pierce Brosnan. I can't imagine an American Bond.

I got harangued anyway Sigh....

James Bond is a white man who likes to fuck pussy. A black, Asian, gay, or female Bond would spell the end of the Bond franchise.

Elba's hot but he's an overrated actor and every "serious" film he has tried to open in has bombed. Bond films are multi-film contracts and they take enormous amounts of time to complete. Elba would be in his mid-50s by the time they got to the last one. As it is, Craig has been too old for the last two films.

And spare me the "time for a black Bond" - the whole discussion is so loaded with hypocrisy and double standards and identity politics you can't even begin to sort it out.

R31 - They should take a look at how badly their new female "Doctor" is doing and take heed.

Aidan Turner for the win. He's just gotten terrific reviews on stage in the West End and he's only 33.

Please. PLEASE!

"when they talk about 'A Black Bond', like it's some kind of box to be ticked"

For me, it's about Black Bondage, with Idris Elba ticking my box.

Sorry, the Bond actor has to be British.

I can try speaking British, and I'm young and fabulous..

Elba was born in London. How “British” do you want your Bond to be?

[quote]how badly their new female "Doctor" is doing and take heed.

Care to elaborate? The new episodes of Doctor Who are yet to be seen, on either side of the Atlantic.

And if nothing else, a new Doctor will be more interesting than the boring as hell last season with that other guy.

I always assumed "007" and the name "Bond" were codes, assignments, and transferable. From Scot to Englishman, from old to younger, from fat to fit. So why should anything other than acting ability matter for replacing Craig?

It's not like Daniel Craig is even close to the best Bond ever, anyway.

[quote]Elba was born in London. How “British” do you want your Bond to be? I think the comment was referring to the calls for Michael B. Jordan and Matt Bomer to be the next Bond.

Except none of that was ever the case r38. Bond has a very well established back story. He was never a code name. Forcing the race issue is ridiculous. Idris is great in many roles but he is not Bond because he is not white. That upsets a lot of people but too bad, it’s just the way it is. Bond isn’t Chinese or trans or female either. Why not just write a new character if you truly feel the need to shoehorn in a non-white character for no other reason than skin color?

R37 - Yes, he's from West Ham.

R38 - I've seen the trailers - they're ghastly. Doctor Who has been losing ratings for a long time; it's a cult fetish for 12 year old boys who never got out of the 1960s. Changing the gender will do nothing to revitalise the series if the trailers I've seen anything to go by. It's hopelessly dated. Even actors like Christopher Eccleston and David Tennant couldn't help it. Its descendants, shows like "Torchwood", are much better.

As for Bond: Bond is not "transferrable" nor is it a "code" - Ian Fleming wrote Bond as his alter ego, based on Fleming's experiences as a naval intelligence officer (he was actually involved in an operation called "Goldeneye") and he gave Bond a very specific identity and character: a white Brit who went to Eton (Fleming, who was quite posh, went to Eton). Casting a Scot (and not just any Scot, at that, they don't make many like those) or the Yorkshire-born Craig isn't that much of a stretch. Casting a black actor is just "stunt" casting.

I rather liked Craig's Bond, as it happens.

I'll grant you that the film franchise used Fleming's original material as a starting point and the original gestalt has been long lost, but they say the same thing about Shakespeare, and for that reason you're supposed to accept as perfectly plausible a black actor as a medieval Prince of Denmark or as historic white figures like Richard II. When it comes to black actors playing white characters, all written by white authors, art becomes "universal". But when it comes to black historical figures or, say, Porgy and Bess, or Tiger Lily in Peter Pan, or Maria in West Side Story, suddenly it's "cultural appropriation" to have anyone who isn't from the same ethnic group as the character to play him/her.

Hamlet and Bond are white male characters written by white men. It's absurd to suggest that while Porgy's cultural milieu as a black man can't be transferred, Hamlet's cultural milieu as the white heir to the medieval throne of Denmark has so little to do with him that absolutely anyone can play him. Ironically, Porgy, Othello, and Black Panther are all the imaginative product of white males.

A black actress has just been selected to play . . . Emma Pankhurst, and of course absolutely NO problem casting a 47 year old black Sophie Okonedo as the white teenaged Margaret of Anjou to Tom Sturridge's Henry, who was in his late twenties at the time, in the abysmal "The Hollow Crown" series (although it is notable for a phenomenal performance by Ben Whishaw as Richard II)

Sorry, the hypocrisy surrounding all this has gotten unbearable.

And, as I noted upthread, every non-Marvel, non-Pacific Rim film that Elba has starred in in his effort to make it as a leading man on the big screen has died at the box office. Every last one.

"It's time for a black Bond" is so stupid and offensive a statement that it beggars belief.

Christ, even Black Panther was written by two white guys.

Another geriatric Bond.

Roger Moore was ludicrous.

Idris is hot as hell.

He’s the sexiest

The Bonds are getting freakish. The last Bond looked like thug. This next Bond will look like he's dipped in tar.

I bet the author is glad he's dead and doesn't have to suffer the ignominy of these freakish Post-Modern, Post-Empire decisions.

He’s too old.

I'm guessing Mr. Elba could pull this off for ten years, given the way that he takes care of himself coupled with his innate sensuality.

I think Idris would be great but he really hasn't been able to lead a film yet.

But Craig should have gone a long time ago.

Actors can still play action stars today in their seventies, the age accusations are ridiculous; it's different with age as it used to be, and nowadays technics plays a much bigger role, Bond doesn't have to do as much physical anymore, if he wants to; if he would go in a more John Le Carre direction, or generally more espionage, action becomes less important as well. Tom Cruise has the best action franchise of this era and he allegedly does a lot of the stunts himself, in his late fifties, search for another alibi to attack Elba than age, the best actor for the role should do it.

R1 sure isn't lying.

He was doing interviews on SiriusXM and apparently his bulge was the talk of the office - it was huge.

In other words... he's Shaft.

^ OK.

He is Shaft. But Shaft isn't Bond.

He can make his own Shaft movie but it won't be a Bond movie.

Box office poison.

The Man in the Orange Shirt's Oliver Jackson Cohen was born to play Bond.. James Bond.

The Bond franchise has exhausted any and all possibilities and is desperately flailing around for another money spinner.

Idris Elba is neither the answer nor the money spinner sought.

Rupert Friend for the win.

I have a legit question and I know that dude with the victim mentality will call me racist but... Whatever.

Can a James Bond type a figure exist in a society that according to all is so racist the police won't leave him alone, that people would call the police on him, etc?

How could a black high spy infiltrate the waspy elite and not call all the attention to himself? I suppose this would apply even more to the British society?

I think it could be really hard to write this story. Unless of course the things I mention are not that common which invalidates what most blacks say. Any thoughts? I mean this serious and not facistiously.

Bond. James Bond.

Excuse me:

Is Tom Hardy too busy?

He was very handsome 15 years ago but is getting long in the tooth

The problem is that Elba is now kind of ugly. Bond should make you swoon. He'd be fine as character actor in a Bond film but that face for James Bond? No.

I watched Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy the other night and Tom Hardy was so good looking in that. I'm with r59

R41 Yes, yes, yes to everything you said.

R41 Bond as written was Scottish. No stretch at all to have him played by a Scot.

R26 I'm generally very nice, so I slept on it and thought about the words you said to me in your reply:

"Any other boxes you don't want 'ticked'? Which would be more offensive or tick too many boxes: American, short, too tall, Welsh, female, Irish, fat, Indian, cockney, or whatever? What about a mixed-race Bond who went to all the right schools and can do the posh accent? Just asking"

And I'd just like to say. FUCK OFF, R26. Thanks and have a good day.

Sean Connery was 53 in his last Bond outing but I’m sure they wouldn’t give Idris a long contract

[41] who would your choice be? I like Aiden Turner but fear he is too short

aint gonna happen.

no way, not close...

They may cast an ethnic but not him...

they want younger, more hip, with it.

Hunnam

Why??

First, the character Bond would never have been Black. Not in England, not in that era, not in the Ian Fleming stories.

Secondly, since the movie franchise hasn't been about the original novels for a while, why go on pretending the protagonist is "James Bond"?

So just change the name, change the race, and begin a new franchise.

Idris Elba is fine as fuck and I'd like to bond my ass to his cock for a four day weekend in a hotel room.

Is Hunnam's eyes too close together to play Bond?

r57 I think you're overthinking it. No one looks for any sort of realism in a Bond movie. He is a fantasy version of a spy.

He isn't that attractive at all and he really wouldn't make a good Bond. Plus he comes off as a total arrogant douche.

It would be a mistake to go back to the Roger Moore/Pierce Brosnan type of Bond. These days, even clean cut heroes like Superman and Captain America have their dark side. That's why Daniel Craig is good (admittedly the writing and plotting is not up to par, but he is fine in the role). The next Bond will continue to be "dark and conflicted" which is why Tom Hardy and Idris Elba would suit. Aiden Turner is too lightweight.

R76: The dark side of Superman is simply ridiculous and doesn't work on the character at all. Superman is not Batman, and the new movies are a disaster in terms of directing and acting. Maybe he is not the superhero for this era.

James Bond is an spy, having a dark side is natural in someone who has to hide his job (or course real spies have nothing to do with that character).

And i think a good actor can be totally different from the public image he has. That's the problem with film stars, they are incredibly limited in their register because they have to have that clean image that let them being cast in every blockbuster. It's been a good while that the biggest film stars are very far from being the best actors of their generation

I can be the dewy femme fatale.

R 26 I agree with you.... Are we casting the correct actor for the part or are we just casting a black actor because it's "time" and " the right thing to do".....why does no one ever talk about Bond as an Asian? The new actor that stars in Crazy Rich Asians would be great. Young, sexy, British.....

R64 -Yes, he was: a posh Scot, son of minor landed gentry, not a scrapper from the slums of Glasgow. Neither Craig nor Connery represented the original in that sense, but both were in the broad sense, white British men. It has to be said, however, that Connery was in a class by himself. I thought going with Craig in Casino Royale was a stroke of genius, because they were never ever going to find another Connery - so they went in a completely different direction. I thought it worked well, especially in the first of Craig's Bond films. By Spectre it was getting old and Craig was getting old. Craig should have dropped it then and they should have given a much younger actor the chance.

Turner, of course, is Irish, but it's not that far off and with his latest stint in the West End in London getting good reviews for "The Lieutenant of Inishmore", he's got the chops, and in fact bears a passing resemblance to Connery with his long red lips, dark eyes, and eyebrows. They obviously share some Celtic DNA. Turner just isn't as big physically, but to me, he's the logical choice, and he's only 33-34. He's incredibly hot and has a worldwide following of fraus dying to fuck him.

They're fools if they don't give him the chance.

OP, british or UK national for Bond PLEASE.

Michael B. Jordan can be the black Jack Ryan.

R81 - Brosnan is Irish, too, by the way, so there's precedence for Aidan Turner, my personal choice.

One and done wouldn’t be so bad.

Bond. Jane Bond.

[quote]The Bond character is a Secret Service agent, code number 007, residing in London but active internationally. Bond was a composite character who was based on a number of commandos whom Fleming knew during his service in the Naval Intelligence Division during the Second World War, to whom Fleming added his own style and a number of his own tastes; Bond's name was appropriated from the American ornithologist James Bond. Bond has a number of character traits which run throughout the books, including an enjoyment of cars, a love of food and drink, and an average intake of sixty custom-made cigarettes a day.

[quote]Rather like Hoagy Carmichael in a way. That black hair falling down over the right eyebrow. Much the same bones. But there was something a bit cruel in the mouth, and the eyes were cold." Others, such as journalist Ben Macintyre, identify aspects of Fleming's own looks in his description of Bond. General references in the novels describe Bond as having "dark, rather cruel good looks".

[quote]In the novels (notably From Russia, with Love), Bond's physical description has generally been consistent: slim build; a three-inch long, thin vertical scar on his right cheek; blue-grey eyes; a "cruel" mouth; short, black hair, a comma of which falls on his forehead. Physically he is described as 183 centimetres (6 feet) in height and 76 kilograms (168 lb) in weight. After Casino Royale, Bond also had the faint scar of the Russian cyrillic letter "Ш" (SH) (for Shpion: "Spy") on the back of one of his hands, carved by a SMERSH agent.

As a practical matter, they've never really gone with Fleming's physical description.

I don't think it's time for a "black Bond." I think they ought to pick a solid actor with some character and presence. Elba or Ejiofor would be a good choices. I'd rather see either of them than Tom Hardy, Fassbender, Hiddleston.

I could also get behind Damien Lewis, Richard Armitage, Dominic Cooper.

Among non-brits the only person might be Nikolaj Coster-Waldau, but the odds of casting a non-brit is decidedly low.

Race and/or gender matter in some cases. In others, it doesn't. In Albee's "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?" both certainly matter. I can't see that race matters with Bond - certainly historicity is not an issue, as Bond does not continue to operate in a Cold War post-WWII world. If he were still operating in the 1960s, then perhaps. But, Bond is operating in the modern world of global politics and British Intelligence.

It’s about fucking time. Idris has the right balance of suave charm, latent sexuality and grit required. Grrrr!

R5 - Sam would be better as a coquettish Miss Moneypenny

Whatever happened to Gay Bond, or at least Bi Bond?

I'm just glad the Shirley MacLaine troll hasn't shown up here

I just chuckle at those who begin their contribution with “I’m not racist, but ...” You ARE racist. At least be honest with yourselves.

Hiddleston's tv mini-series "The Night Manager" was said to be his audition for Bond consideration. I liked it, and it got some award consideration, but many people hated it. Was there ever a second series?

My guess is that they will go for a male Brit, under 40, and sign him on for at least four films. Race should not be a factor, in my opinion. Charisma, acting ability, intelligence, and the "it factor" are what should matter. The last thing the series needs is some dumbass action-hero type.

[quote]they could create a black spy and introduce him in one of the Bond movies, and if people like the character they could get a new saga

Hello?

I really would love to see Clive Owens as Bond, but I guess that will never happen. Excellent underrated actor.

r14, you just schooled every internet racist with facts. Thank you.

[quote]I really would love to see Clive Owens as Bond, but I guess that will never happen. Excellent underrated actor.

His best shot was last time when they cast Daniel Craig. Wasn't he rumored to have been among the final candidates?

I think he would have been great back then. He's 53 now, so probably no chance. He's aging badly, but handsome as well back then...

Race outside, I think they have made Bond too rugged masculine when he always had this sort of the elegant smooth sophistication. Masculine but not rugged at all. I miss the Pierce Brosnan Bond. Idris won't bring that back. Any other black british actors that can?

[quote]they could create a black spy and introduce him in one of the Bond movies, and if people like the character they could get a new saga

Which will mean that either Tyler Perry or Lee Daniels MUST direct! Which will mean that the film will have little sales potential outside the US.

R85 - Armitage is already 46; both he and Elba are just too old at this point, and don't believe that about Bond not having to be too physical, they do have to be.

Elba's sexuality is anything but "latent".

What they call nontraditional casting works in some cases but not all; casting a black actor as Richard II or Emma Pankhurst and Margaret of Anjou is rewriting history in a way that isn't permitted with other groups' histories. Identity politics is for everyone or no one - that's the way humans work and that's why so many whites are turning right politically. They feel as entitled to their "own" as other groups do. Mostly, nontraditional casting is a way of giving more roles to minorities, not "revealing" anything new about characters.

M is not the central character; no one cares if she's Judy Dench or Bernard Lee.

Yaphet Kotto, when discussion of a black Bond first arose, said he thought it was time black actors stopped playing roles written by white men for white men, and developed their own. He was one of the few black voices to be raised in opposition to nontraditional casting, which he thought demeaned black actors and assumed they had no stories over their own to imagine or tell.

Bond is a white man's role written by a white man. Nowhere in Hamlet does Shakespeare identify his protagonist as "white". He didn't have to. Everyone knows that in 14th century Denmark, the royal family was about as likely to be black as to be Martians.

The assumption is that race doesn't form part of character culture and identity for white people, only black people, therefore, it's fine to assume that Hamlet's character isn't remotely informed by his gender, race, language, culture, place in the social hierarchy, etc.

But Porgy's is.

That's where the dichotomy lies.

Kotto was right.

Clive Owens is also too old. He should have been considered in his "Close Your Eyes" days.

Isn’t Henry Cavill just the right age for this now? Surely the MI film was an audition for this?

Well, Bond is supposed to be a more attractive version of this fella.

Comparing the various actors to Carmichael, Connery might have resembled the description a bit, with a lot of imagination at work.

I vote for an American actor to balance the books.

Just a few years ago, Brits were playing Lincoln, MLK, Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man simultaneously

The Rock as 007 seems only fair...

I think James Norton will get the part.

[quote]Well, Bond is supposed to be a more attractive version of this fella.

What Connery ...and Moore for that matter... had in common with Carmichael is that they were suave.

Idris Elba does not come across as suave.

If there was ever going to be a black actor playing Bond it should have been Colin Salmon. Suave, elegant and very smooth. He did 3 of the Bonds as Charles Robinson. He's too old now, but he's way more Bond than Idris.

My votes would be : Aiden Turner, Tom Hardy or James Norton. They'd all bring different aspects to the part. Turner as a more dark and dangerous Connery type Bond ( he was good as a ruthless killer in the BBC Agatha Christie adaptation of 'And Then There Were None') Hardy as a damaged, loose cannon, charismatic Bond James Norton as the genial, gentlemanly, Old Etonian Bond with lovely manners, who could kill you with his bare hands.

I would absolutely pay to watch a Felix Leiter movie with Jeffrey Wright, R92.

With all the spinoff films these days, I'm surprised we haven't seen something like this already.

R54... Yes! I'd forgotten about Oliver Jackson Cohen. OMG, how could I ? Another very worthy contender.....

Why not a ginger Bond?

Domhnall Gleeson!

[quote]historicity is not an issue, as Bond does not continue to operate in a Cold War post-WWII world. If he were still operating in the 1960s, then perhaps. But, Bond is operating in the modern world of global politics and British Intelligence.

Just thought that deserved to be posted again. British class issues of the 1950s just aren't as relevant or relatable in the international market of 2018. The trick is to make a Bond that's contemporary but that still feels, er, Bond-ish. Presumably there will be some kind of reboot when a new actor takes the role.

Also...

[quote]The problem is that Elba is now kind of ugly

Have you seen Daniel Crag?! Jesus fuck. He is sexy but homely as an old shoe. I still remember years ago when a DL wit observed that Craig looks like a Ukranian cab driver.

Daniel Craig is a perfect example of how the right suit (or tux) can make any man sexy as fuck.

I don't think it's overthinking to address the race issue at hand. One must suspend disbelief a bit but having a black spy working the higher echelons of a white society woildmbe really hard to pull off.

Look at the black audience in get out. They were just waiting for the police to arrest the protagonist in the end because that's what would have happened in real life.

A white guy wouldn't work in a predominantly black society or Asian society either. You just stand out. How can you not? That's something hard to ignore and maybe that plays a part on why they didn't have a black bond yet.

R90: So that's the way to shut up all conversations now, if you don't think a black Bond is at all necessary you are racist, period.

And frankly i don't know the percentage of black people in UK but it seems lower than in the USA.

In countries with less diversity population this race politics sound totally foreign. Like the Oscar's so white controversy. Should the oscars be more diverse? of course, but why is everybody talking about black actors only when latinos are way less represented not only on cinema but on the music industry too.

I think Elba could be fine on the role, but i'm a little tired of the whole using white, male, straight to shut a conversation. Being white, male and straight doesn't make you automaticaly wrong, and if they are wrong you better prove it without using his race, genre and sexual orientation

I'm not sure I've seen a single post here saying a black actor for the next Bond is "necessary," and I haven't heard anyone say that in the media, either.

But when people say the idea should be dismissed out-of-hand, as some have done, that is troubling.

No, it really isn’t r113. If someone said a brand new character *must* be white that would be bullshit but an already established character who is KNOWN to be white? Fuck off and do your handwringing elsewhere.

Nothing is sacred.

Pierce Brosnan was the most attractive of all the Bonds.

Now Chris Hemsworth is done with Thor he would be a great Bond, but is he already too famous?

Is Mr Colin Firth too old?

Colin Salmon, I always forget his name. Has he ever had the lead in a film? I've only seen him in supporting roles.

A younger Clive Owen, sure.

James Norton, weirdly, his eyelashes are too pale.

Aiden Turner, still too lightweight. Cut off his hair and he becomes less interesting.

Pierce Brosnan didn’t work for me as Bond, even though I have liked him very much since Remington Steele.

He was too handsome for the part. For me, Bond has to be someone who is attractive enough to be credible as an irresistible playboy, but who is rough around the edges.

I realize that I’m in the minority, since I pretty much stopped watching the new Bond movies. I prefer the old ones with Connery and Moore.

I don't go in for BAME casting for the sake of diversity, especially when historically inaccurate. But Elba is a good choice for Bond who is a fictional character. He's a panty dropper, a necessity for the role, and while old, doesn't look it.

Yes, I've enjoyed Pierce Brosnan's post Bond films. It's like he's poking fun at his 007 image.

r111, nails it. I would love to see a black spy lead set in 1940s Harlem doing the H. Renaissance.

[quote] surely someone like Michael B Jordan ... would be better choice

An American Bond, OP?

Sacrilege! Blasphemy!

R123 Exactly, start a new franchise.

It must be humiliating having to depend on characters created by white people..

R113 you're a bore.

Isn't B Jordan...gaaaay. American and gay is a step too far.

[quote] I forgot about Pierce Brosnan

Pierce Brosnan counts as British. He was born in Ireland, but aged 11 moved to Scotland (where he saw his first Bond film "Goldfinger") and was then raised and educated in London.

[quote]Isn't B Jordan...gaaaay. American and gay is a step too far.

Yes, and a mouth-breather.

I chuckled at this Vox heading. Very apt, I must say:

"Celebrating 10 years of Idris Elba becoming James Bond "any second now" ".

R112, yes, the percentage is much lower. Around 12 percent of the U.S. population is black; only 3 percent of the British population is. Blacks are actually overrepresented in British film/TV/theatre compared to the proportion of the population. Meanwhile, Indian/Asians are 8 percent of the population and are underrepresented. Doctor Who, for example, has had two black companions since the revamp, but only a couple of episodes with prominent Anglo-British characters.

In the U.S. you see black actors wedged into all sorts of parts to increase representation, but Latinos who make up a much larger chunk of the population are given shorter shrift. As a viewer you get shows where it's all about ethnicity/authenticity and then shows where you're supposed to somehow not notice that the doughty British lord is being played by a black American actor with a bad British accent. My favorite example of this was at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival's production of Jane Austen's Sense and Sensibility where Mrs. Dashwood was white, while her daughters were Latino, Asian and black. Meanwhile the costuming/interior details were very attentive to being period appropriate.

After a point, it just gets irritating--if you want something that has a lot of diversity, pick a different play, or change the setting. Or, at the very least, cast so people have a vague chance of being related when they're playing siblings.

I blame it on *Hamilton*--though, there, the diversity (and rap) was making a point--we weren't being asked to ignore the race of the actors.

r126, o stop. Michael B. Jordan is not gay. I have friends who know him. He loves women and has had the same girlfriend for several years now. She's East indian I think.

R112 - Black population of America is larger: about 15%; black population of UK is much lower, about 4%.

R119, don't forget ME!

Weren’t there 007 rumors swirling around both Robbie Williams and Harry Styles?

I'd really like the next Bond to be gay, not black.

Idris is too old and has never ever opened a film

R136 Had Craig opened a movie when he was picked? I don't think so; he was very unknown.

R137 Craig was known in England, not in America. Idris is meant to be a movie star, yet all his films bomb, they will not cast some twerp shown repeatedly to not be able to open a flick

R79 I didn't know whether you were serious or ironic when you suggested choosing a particular variety of employee was "the right thing to do".

Whenever someone mentions "the right thing to do" I assume they're a Christian Evangelist, a Socialist or some other variety of Holier-Than-Thou Social Engineer.

R138 - I saw some of Craig's earlier television work in the UK, before "Layer Cake" and before "Road to Perdition" in which I thought he was absolutely fantastic - frankly, I thought he left Paul Newman (meaning no disrespect to the dead) and Tom Hanks in the dust. And I thought his work in "Our Friends in the North" most impressive, amidst a very impressive cast that included Christopher Eccleston, Mark Strong, and Gina McKee.

R138 Oh totally, he had a great career before Bond,

Would people stop lazily bringing up actors like Cavill, Hemsworth and Hunnam. You don't need to be Oscar worthy, but they cannot handle any heavy dramatic story beats per Skyfall without it turning into unintentional comedy. They are fine for stunts of jumping off a cliff, but that is it. They raised the bar with Craig and are not going backwards. acting wise.

Fassbender is about 40 and looks 55. Hardy is a midget and is praying Venom does tank. Noughton was terrible in his Bond audition, McMafia.

[quote]Race outside, I think they have made Bond too rugged masculine when he always had this sort of the elegant smooth sophistication. Masculine but not rugged at all. I miss the Pierce Brosnan Bond. Idris won't bring that back. Any other black british actors that can?

R96, May I introduce you to someone?

None of the Bond actors were movie stars or real actors before Craig, I think they didn't want such a big star and so much acting for the role, it was more about Bond and less about the actor and star, saying Elba isn't big enough a star doesn't make sense either.

Oliver Jackson Cohen who was in The Man in the Orange Shirt is in the running. It won't be Idris. Bond is a caucasian, and I'm not racist for saying so.

The character James Bond is half Swiss.

Those who say Elba is too old to sign for 3 or 4 films, while true also should say they won’t sign him for that many films because if they sign him for the first one it will tank.

The Chinese market will not go see it, they hate blacks. ,

Black Panther did well overseas, so, no, I don't think the Chinese hate blacks. But Bond is a franchise--its audience has expectations--Bond is suave British guy, reeking of white privilege with babes and gadgets. It's about wish fulfillment--and most white guys (and that is the main audience) don't want to be Idris Elba. Or an American. Or a woman. M can be any of those things (well, not American, never American), but not Bond. He's a specific fantasy figure.

Black panther did well overseas because it's a superhero film from established IP.

Most black lead movies wont do well anywhere sorry but that's the true before and after BP.

"Black Panther did well overseas, so, no, I don't think the Chinese hate blacks."

R148 Your assertion would make sense if "overseas" equated to " the Chinese"

R130, it sounds like increasing the visibility of minorities really annoys the hell out of you. Thanks for enlightening us.

Black Panther did well for several things. First, the character was tested on Civil War, or a well established franchise.

The character was created by white guys, but the fact that he is black is essential for the role, it's part of his identity. He is African.

And the movie is good. People really wanted a movie about a black superhero and that reflected in box office. And it's true the movie was very very big, but i don't think outside of the USA the movie was significatively bigger than other superhero films that were successful.

Changing Bond race would be controversial. First because Bond is pure entertaiment, and people who want to watch films just to ge entertained usually don't react well when politics are in the mix. And controversial in a film destined to mass audiences usually means in the best case scenario a dissapointing box office and in the worst a total flop In terms of Bond being british it would made more sense a indian or pakistani Bond than a black one

R151, No. Lack of authenticity and lack of logic annoy me. I don't like whitewashing and I don't like colorwashing. I am in favor of more diversity in programming--instead of slipping in the token actor of color to play a part written for a white character, how about producing programs that feature a wider array of characters in the first place. Don't pretend a bunch of black people were running around Dickensian London when there weren't and expect that people won't notice.

I think there are times when colorblind casting is fine--opera, frequently Shakespeare--when you're working in a highly theatrical non-realistic style--but if you're trying to represent a time and place, then it's an issue.

With James Bond, you're looking at a well-established character who has certain traits--posh white British guy. That's the role. Not everyone fits it.

The biggest racial minority in Britain is by far the Asian-British (ca. 4.4 million) - more prevalent than the African-British minority (ca. 1.9 million).

Therefore, given Britain’s socio-ethnic makeup, it would be more logical for there to be a South Asian-British (e.g. Indian-British, Pakistani-British or Bangladeshi-British) Bond first, before any African-British Bond.

And that would actually reflect reality. There are more Indian-British people in the actual, real-life British civil service than any other minority. Because of Britain’s history of turning India (which used to include modern-day Pakistan and Bangladesh) into its overseas colony.

So here’s the next, more realistic racial minority James Bond:

And I understand that most Americans are mostly focused on the African-descent minority (because that’s the biggest minority specifically in the US). But that’s exactly it - it’s more prevalent in the States and its intelligence services (CIA, etc) than in Britain and its MI5 / MI6.

For Britain - South Asians from its main historic colony (India) are the biggest racial minority.

R154 Your man may look good— but how does he sound?

Indian men do have their own eminently-satirisable sound.

R155: African american were the most important minority, now Latinos are the most important in number

R156: Only inmigrants have that accent, there are a lot of asians of second and third generation that obviously doesn't have that problem

Important is not the right word, bigger is more appropiate. Anyway, blacks will be the most represented minority due to their past. I know in some arts like literature or cinema are underrepresented, but on tv and music is the opposite (in music is quite obvious because they were the pioneers in a lot of genres)

Come to think of it, the UK has a surprisingly small number of prominent desi actors, doesn't it? There's Naveen Andrews, Dev Patel, and...and...well, Ben Kingsley. There must be some TV people I don't know about.

Parminder Nagra IS Jane Bond!

The more I think about it, the more I like James Norton for Bond.

He has to get to the gym then. He look too paunchy.

R156, heavy, comical Indian accents are actually not very common in Britain. Most British-born people of South Asian ethnicity have British accents.

Here’s Priti Patel, Britain’s former Minister for Employment, former Secretary to the Treasury, former Secretary for International Development, and current MP for Essex.

I don’t like her because she’s a Tory, but I can’t fault her British accent. In fact, being a Tory, her accent is ironically far more posh and upper-class than most.

Here's a thought: what about Daniel Radcliffe? He would certainly bring an entirely new audience to the franchise.

R162 The same was thought about Connery. He's such a box office success as Bond, let's put him into a completely different role against type, get those asses in the seats to see him in something completely different. The idea and the films were abject failures.

R154, he’s super cute, who is he?

Pocket gay Freddie Fox?

Tom Ellis.

r149, That is not true. The fact of the matter is hollywood would use that tired saying while not even releasing black films in foreign markets and promoting them properly. Of course they would flop.

Jamie Dornan had an admirable panther-like athleticism in his serial killer series but he seems to have lost it as well as his charisma. Pity.

From the BBC (news):

Since when is James Norton "too paunchy?" Say it ain't so!

A black bond should look like American actor Kofi Siriboe.

I don't want to see a black bond, and i'm black. Bond is an iconic character and unlike a superhero he's ethnicity is a big part of how we perceive him. He's an English/Scottish white man. Theres just no way around that to me. Plus I don't like to give hollywood the satisfaction of being unable to create a super badass iconic spy character who is black or african. This is can be done and would be dope as hell.

Kofi has great skin and fabulous nose. Great body, knows how to move, can wear anything.

If he can talk, I'll take him.

I just want to repeat that James Bond's mother Monique Delacroix is Swiss from Vaud and spoke French to young James not the Queens English. James Bond is British of course but, it's complicated. As for actors, Pierce Brosnan was Irish and is now Irish / American. So, NOT British.

Daniel Craig is already signed for two more Bond movies. This shit was nothing more than tabloid gossip. Even the people quoted in the story now deny all of it.

The reason it ricocheted like this, however, was because the whole world wants to see Idris Elba as Bond. The franchise missed out on a great opportunity in their refusal to walk away from Craig, whose reign should’ve ended with Skyfall.

The whole world does not want that and in fact Elba is not a global star. Sheesh.

I meant the whole world other than white supremacists.

I haven’t spoken to a single (normal) person who doesn’t think he’d be a great Bond.

This is your topic of conversation in your frequent travels around Brazil, India, Indonesia and China?

If they're really considering an Black actor for the next Bond, then they need a British actor. Start there. As much as I love Michael B. Jordan, I think someone like David Oyelowo is worth considering. Is Chadwick Boseman British? I think not. Too bad. He was a real hot Black Panther. But WTF ever. They need to be looking at actors in their 30's. Early to mid-30s. I like Idris, but he's too old. You have to figure there will be three movies so 8 years. That's a huge commitment.

Hopefully Elba will diddle Swift at Watch Hill and this pipe dream will explode, saving us all from black don't crack geriatric lumbering.

[quote][R148] Your assertion would make sense if "overseas" equated to " the Chinese"

Isn't it these days? In the first quarter of 2018, China overtook the US as the largest box office in the world.

Infinity War made $191mm opening weekend in China. Black Panther made $65 mm it's opening weekend. Infinity War worldwide gross: $2,045mm ($1,367 international) of which $360mm (26%) is China vs. Black Panther: $1,346 ($646mm international) of which only $105 (16%) is China.

Captain America Winter Soldier more closely follows the common 1/3 US and 2/3 international with $408mm and $745mm, respectively, of which China was $180mm (24% - much closer to the 25% of total international that has become the norm for a blockbuster).

If you make all the normalizing adjustments, Black Panther's box office success stems from over-performance in the US and underperformance in China.

All that said, I would still cast Elba for the rougher Bond that Fleming wrote and Ejiofor for the more suave Bond favored by the earlier movies. I am not pushing a "black Bond" - I'm pushing the best person I'd see in the role after the evolution that Bond has undergone through the last several movies. I just don't think that race matters for Bond. They fit the character better than most of the others people have named. If you throw out these guys along with Armitage for being too old, then I'd go with Damien Lewis as my top choice.

But really, as long as it's not Fassbender, Hiddleston, Hardy, or Cumberbatch, I'd be fine. But, maybe that's the real problem. I'm just not as invested in the Bond character as I would be if they were going to cast something else.

[QUOTE]This is your topic of conversation in your frequent travels around Brazil, India, Indonesia and China?

This is a fun clip:

R183 cognitive dissonance is a burden for the low IQ set.

I guess knowing what not to take literally is a burden for the asshole high IQ set.

[quote] As for actors, Pierce Brosnan was Irish and is now Irish / American. So, NOT British.

Brosnan left Ireland aged only 11 for Scotland and then England. So he's close enough.

I suspect that Elba was toying with his fans or not with that silly Tweet - he's just enough of a douche-bag to do so.

Because if Craig is signed up for the next TWO Bond films, they would take four years to complete and release - Elba would be 50 before starting the first one, and, as others have pointed out, every big-screen film he's tried to open has bombed.

Craig didn't have a list of failures behind him at opening films when he got Bond, and neither did Connery - they were fresh faces. And what Craig brought to Bond was leashed intensity, the source of his particular sex appeal.

If the rumours turn out to be true, with Elba, the producers would stand a fair chance of having the first bomb Bond film on their hands as they bank on a 50 year old black actor all of whose previous attempts at opening a first run film have failed.

^ (or not)

Ryan Gosling? Are his eyes too close?

[quote]The fact of the matter is hollywood would use that tired saying while not even releasing black films in foreign markets and promoting them properly.

Oh course it's "Hollywood's fault" that billions of movie goers in West, East, South and Southeast Asia have no cultural interest in films featuring Black Americans. Despite this cultural disinterest, Black producers, distributors and PR firms would "properly" promote Black films and have no trouble eliciting great interest and selling them all over the Asian world.

R27 There were two non Brit Bonds. Lazenby was Australian and Brosnan was Irish and they were both cast.

Fresh Prince of MI6

R112 - the most recent statistics found that in the UK (as Bond, fictional though he may be, could venture from anywhere within the United Kingdom) : 3% of the population (as of 2011 census), identified as ‘Black British’. In the US (as of 2010 census), 12% were identified as ‘Non-Hispanic Black’. I don’t know the comparable statistics as to the US and the UK super secret, licensed to kill spies are, however. Remember, Bond = fiction. Any current or former member of the intelligence community, British or American, will tell you that the original Bond was laughable and camp then, just as he is now. Have you ever watched a single Bond film? It’s escapism, fun, good old fashioned make-believe. Race really isn’t the issue now, as it was in Flemming’s day. A time of colonialism and the ‘savage’ dark man, compared to the sophisticated, cultured, superior white man. I still maintain that objecting to a non-white Bond really is, at heart, racist.

R193. You knob jockey.

R192 - at least BOTH were from HRH’s Commonwealth, and SOUNDED passably British.

WW R113, block the dickhead @ R114.

R192, re: Brosnan please see R187. He went to school in London.

this douche has the looks

1D's Niall auditioning on The Late Late Show

R156, amongst so many others = racist, ignorant, troll.

R192 - In fairness, Australia is part of the British Commonwealth and was settled primarily by Brits, and Ireland was once part of Great Britain and shares a historical, if agonising, relationship with it. English is Ireland's language, and I think they are rather bravely trying to ensure that Gaelic does not disappear.

R194 - actually, you're right about the camp quality of the earliest ones - that's why the casting of Connery was so brilliant: he was able to convey the subtle camp quality whilst lending it massive leading man status and you always knew he was at heart a true patriot. The gestalt shifted over time, and Craig's Bond was the breakthrough to a troubled man with a troubled history. I thought Casino Royale the first of the Bonds that could stand against the early Connery Bonds.

And if anyone should be outraged by the casting of a 50 year old (which is how old Elba would be by the time he got around to filming the first of his Bonds after Craig's next two) actor in an iconic action hero role, it should be actresses everywhere of all colours, who know perfectly well that a 50 year old woman would never get such a opportunity at that age, no matter what their names were. It's a bit like the bitter feminists who predicted that a black man would easily beat out a white woman for President in America, and turned out to be right.

A study was released recently that a leading male actor in a film guaranteed approximately 12% more to the bottom line profits; a leading female actor opening the film added 0% in overall profits.

So chew on that for awhile.

R104 Colin would have been a great Bond. He is handsome, suave and elegant and a good actor. Idris is too rough looking for Bond. Make him a new agent,009, and give him his own movie.

Great posts, R41 and R130. My feelings exactly.

R157 - really? Birdy num num? You DO realise that the clip posted by that racist troll was Peter Sellers?

[QUOTE]Idris is too rough looking for Bond.

As opposed to the refinement of Daniel Craig.

Or is “rough” a euphemism for something else...

R163 - ah, a classic!

Ooh yum! R171!

R138 Did you agree with yourself at R141? Agreeing with yourself doesn't make you correct.

I still contend Craig wasn't a "known" in the US or the UK, and that's why B Broc picked him. They never want a well known for Bond.

R172 - you never met a suave, intelligent, edgy, hot, non-white British guy? You need to explore the UK! Widen your horizons - they exist! (And could just as likely be a fictional, heroic, spy for Her Majesty!

R208 Code? You must be joking? Colin Salmon is black and would have made a great Bond. BTW I don't like Craig . He looks like a Russian gangster not a British secret agent.

Well we're WOKE and you're all awful, awful racists. So THERE. We demand that the next James Bond be female and ditches that Imperialist clothing symbol of a dinner jacket for a burqa. We're right- as always- and will hear no more about it.

I think that a lot of straight white men will get upset if they see a black guy womanize white women, and Bond can be a bit of a love rat. I think when it comes to seeing something like that on screen, white men will just not accept it. That's their biggest hurdle.

R194, regarding the Census:

The most recent Census in 2011 highlights that in England and Wales (not all of Britain but just these 2 countries), 80% of the population were white British.

Asian-British (Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Chinese and other) were the 2nd biggest group and the biggest minority by far - 7.5% of the population (consisting of South Asians - 6.8% and East Asians - 0.3%).

African-British groups - 3.4% of the population.

Take a deep breath, R214. Call out to your mother to fetch your Ventolin/Ritalin/Ambien, and a nice, hot cup of Bonox! If your version of fun equates to small minded bigotry and racism, well you’re just gonna LOVE the next two years of your basement dwelling with Trump in power!! XOXO

R215 - apparently, seemingly, a large majority of posts in thread are beholden to the old ‘black man bad. Black man with white women - badder’

R200 Bronsan moved to the UK when he was 11 . He never became British. His accent is a mix of English/Irish. So in fact he was still not British and is an Irish and American citizen. So no R187 not close enough. R197 Brosnan was from The Republic of Ireland and the US when he was first cast in the 80s. The ROI and the US are not in The Commonwealth!

Oh, that Census should probably say "European-British", because they counted Spanish-British, Portuguese-British, etc. (i.e. smn who would be classified as Latino in the US) as "white" in Britain, even though they often don't look "white" in the US sense of the word.

R219 - doesn’t mix, or allow his foods to touch one another. Pedantic much?

R211 - I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you on Craig; I knew him from a large body of television work in the UK and then from his first real "Hollywood" role as the psycho son of Paul Newman in Road to Perdition - the only indie film I knew him from was the very excellent and disturbing "Love is the Devil" in which he played the young chav that the painter Francis Bacon falls in love with and draws into his strange life. Craig is a trained actor, he was no Connery, and won plaudits on stage in the revival of Pinter's "Betrayal" on Broadway, and as Iago in a recent short-run production opposite David Oyolewo, also in New York.

Craig has chops that Elba never had. Turner, by the way, is also a trained actor - he went to Ireland's "RADA", Colin Farrell also went to the Gaity school but dropped out when his looks got him a movie role. He should have stayed, like Turner - Farrell's looks and magnetism got him too far too fast and it ruined him.

Farrell would have made a first-class Bond if he'd been in the right place at the right time.

Craig looks like the Cheshire native he is. He comes from the same area as the rather toothsome Tom Hughes, only Hughes retains the curious, quasi-Scouse accent of the area (it's bordered by Liverpool and Manchester on either side) and Craig sounds more like a Yorkshireman. Craig's father ran a pub in Chester.

[QUOTE]I think that a lot of straight white men will get upset if they see a black guy womanize white women, and Bond can be a bit of a love rat. I think when it comes to seeing something like that on screen, white men will just not accept it. That's their biggest hurdle.

That’s definitely a big part of it.

It’s also why when you see a lot of interracial couples these days, it’s white man/black woman. They don’t want to run the risk of incurring the white man’s wrath.

[quote] apparently, seemingly, a large majority of posts in thread are beholden to the old ‘black man bad. Black man with white women - badder’

The problem there is not so much the US box office. It's acceptance at the International box office.

You really think that's not going to be a consideration?

No, R219, Brosnan is close enough because he spent half his formative childhood years in England. No one cares about his formalistic passport stamps - he lived and partially grew up in London, he was schooled in London, he took in British culture.

For example, Mila Kunis moved to the US when she was seven and didn't get US citizenship in the beginning. She was only 14 when she starred in That 70s Show. During her first season no one thought of her as an Ukrainian "Soviet" actress. The casting director accepted her as close enough to an American (with or without citizenship) to play the role of a homegrown Wisconsin teenager because she was now growing up and going to school in the US.

R224, unless you work for a studio, why would you have a dog in this fight? Does your livelihood depend upon having a white Bond to sell tickets and not offend the sensibilities of the market in China?

Leave it up to R224 and Black Panther never would’ve been made. Is this guy an old retired Hollywood executive or something? Why must every decision revolve around China? Yes they’re a big market but you can still make plenty of money without them.

r172 makes an excellent point. I'd rather see an newly-created character as defined, African-American, sexy, smart, hot and not just making a 50-years-plus known character all of sudden be black. Henry Simmons from "Agents of SHIELD" comes to mind... the man makes me melt in every scene he's in.

If it's not broken, don't fix it.

Bond is a completely different property from Black Panther...it's a completely different character.

The posters at R227 and R226 really do need to take a remedial reading course. I wrote: "You really think that's not going to be a consideration?".

Wrong or right... of course it will be a consideration. In Hollywood money rules and it has nothing to do with what you or I think.

I've got it!! MARK STRONG.

Handsome instead of pretty, fantastic voice, suave and cruel. Not sure about the hair, can Bond be bald? or should he wear a hairpiece like Connery?

[QUOTE]Bond is a completely different property from Black Panther...it's a completely different character.

Why don’t you tell us about these differences.

R197, the Queen is styled (Her/Your) Majesty. Royal Highness is the style of every other royal, who has been afforded the privilege.

Ian Fleming's 007 James Bond = Black Panther.

Anyone can see they are one and the same.

A movie is a movie.

Craig, at 50, now looks geriatric and they're still chasing him to do another picture...not buying age as an excuse.

White people like R224 spent decades telling us that a film like Black Panther could never work in America. Then they spent the last couple decades telling us that it could never work on a global scale, because the Chinese! Now that Black Panther has proven all the doubters wrong, we’re being told that it was just an exception. It was a “certain kind of film” and can’t be replicated elsewhere.

Do you mean to tell us that the Daniel Craig run of films wouldn’t have been successful if Idris Elba or Chiwetel Ejiofor starred in these films? Their success was due to the magic of Daniel Craig’s white skin?

[R236] They're chasing him to do another picture because he's a proven success in the role. Craig started with the Bond films years ago... the public has followed him and is familiar with him.

[quote]White people like [R224] spent decades telling us that a film like Black Panther could never work in America.

I never said that.

Your straw man posts are dumb.... but continue making a fool of yourself.

[quote]Do you mean to tell us that the Daniel Craig run of films wouldn’t have been successful if Idris Elba or Chiwetel Ejiofor starred in these films? Their success was due to the magic of Daniel Craig’s white skin?

Daniel Craig was right for the role.

The audience needs to be able to pronounce the name of the actor. Not a secondary issue, imho. Impossible with Chiwetel Ejiofor.

Bond can be great looking but not too pretty. Timothy Dalton was almost too pretty, as was Pierce Brosnan. Connery was always be the best Bond, Roger Moore the worst..

[quote]Do you mean to tell us that the Daniel Craig run of films wouldn’t have been successful if Idris Elba or Chiwetel Ejiofor starred in these films? Their success was due to the magic of Daniel Craig’s white skin?

I've been pushing Elba and Ejiofor as my top picks to succeed Craig.

However, I do not believe either would have been as successful in the Bond films as Craig was. When Craig took over the role, they shifted Bond from the more camp version played by Brosnan. The films shifted in tone to ape Dark Knight trilogy and all the other dark (some would say gloomy) "re-imagined" or rebooted franchises of the early 2000s. Also, the success of the Bourne films was specifically noted as the direction many believed it needed to go.

With a new Bond, whoever that is, the films will need to shift again to reflect both the evolution of the character through the Craig movies AND the actor chosen to play it - with luck, someone who has an interestingly style and presence that adds something entertaining.

[quote]White people like [[R224]] spent decades telling us that a film like Black Panther could never work in America.

This statement is false - or at least the implication is false. Black Panther has never been a particularly top selling comic. Iron Man is highlighted as having started the current wave of Marvel success with the so-called film MCU, but he was only used because Marvel basically had sold the movie rights to other characters. The success of the other franchises in the MCU allowed Marvel a few degrees more freedom to use lesser known characters.

When you eliminate X-Men, Fantastic Four, Spiderman, and such, you essentially get the most popular characters introduced in the order in which they were done in the movies.

R220: Maybe they would be classified as latinos in the USA, but most spanish and portuguese are totally white. And latino is an heritage not a race (and if we go to the root of the word, portuguese and spanish are not more latinos than french or italians)

The asshat black entertainment promoter here can shriek and straw man to his content. Has zero impact on what suits in Hollywood and ticker buyers around the world do.

The biggest minority in the US are Latinos and also Latino women are the ones paying the tickets at the box office according to the MPAAs annual report, so they should be the ones the industry worries about.

For whatever reason they're not and now we have an over representation of blacks in the media and if you point this out you're racist because blacks are untouchables apparently.

If the suits in Hollywood think a black James Bond can make 500 million to a billion bucks per picture around the world, they'll do it. Skyfall grossed a BILLION bucks. Jada Pinkett's soapbox made 0.

R237: White people like the white people who made hip hop and rap mainstream buying the albums?

Every successful black artist has a big amount of white fans. People keep talking like white people were just members of the KKK when most white people has zero problems with black actors, singers and writers.

The problem with black lead big films is the foreign box office. Of course a superhero film is going to have less problems than a film that deals with race or politics.

What surprise me is the fact that the pushing of a black actor playing Bond is really in discussion. That could fit the politics of the moment if Bond were an amercian character but that's not the case.

Anyway, people react really bad to changes of characters they known for a lot of time. Every change of actor is feared because they don't know how people is going to react.

A black Bond is like the female Goshtbusters, there'll be bad reactions all over the place. There will be racist reactions? of course, but not everybody who will have a bad reaction will be due to racism. Hollywood is a lazy place, they are reciclying ideas all the time, and maybe it'll be better is they had new ones. They had plenty of opportunities to introduce new characters to the franchise, but they are not using those opportunities.

Hopefully cinema will follow tv footsteps were minorities representation is way better

Its as if people think showbiz is charity or social work. SHOW BUSINESS = business.

[QUOTE]White people like the white people who made hip hop and rap mainstream buying the albums?

No, those are the white people who would love to see Idris Elba as James Bond. And they’re all around the world on every continent. The notion that it would produce some sort of white backlash as ticket sales dropped is asinine.

Laith for Bond. Black tranny. You know it will make billions. It's time. And Hollywood owes us.

Have you shared your numbers with Pinewood Studio, R249? If you got a piece of the billion dollar black Bond, you could shut down your asshattery here.

China actually reacted with lots of racism to black panther. There are easily to find reports but the trades on that.

I think BP worked because it was an established IP and because there were dozens of actors paying full tickets for others to see. It was in essence a phenomenon.

I'm sorry to say this but Asians worldwide are just as racists as whites and Latinos and I highly doubt that we'll have another Blaxk Panther to talk about in the near future.

[QUOTE]If you got a piece of the billion dollar black Bond, you could shut down your asshattery here.

Most of Daniel Craig’s Bond films didn’t come close to a billion. And the next one certainly won’t touch it.

R167 that is true. Just read the THEME reports by the MPAAs and stop the victim mentality.

Do you think suits would have any problem to make money if they knew for sure blacks would sell overseas? They didn't because the numbers showed them otherwise.

Make up your mind the world is either racist or they embrace blacks thus not racist. You can't have it both.

R249: Unfortunately it's not. Even without racism (wich probably plays a part) people just don't like that kind of changes, they will feel that the filmmakers are introducing politics in a simple entertainning film and the reaction won't be good. The same with a woman Bond or a gay Bond (probably even worse in those cases).

If it was a completely new character it won't be such problem and i doubt it would generate any adverse reaction

THANK YOU! R227!

Whoops! R237! THANK YOU! (R227 is a cunt)

R227: But Black Panther is a totally different story. They didn't have to make any changes and they don't piss off anyone. The character was black from the beginning, and the character was even tested (with positive results) on Avengers: Civil war.

They clearly knew there was a market for Black Panther. Then everything worked in their favour because the film was good and had a good critic reaction. In america did extremely well, and in the rest of the world did weel for a superhero film standards.

Maybe we switch. White Panther, Black Bond. Social experiment on a worldwide scale.

R225 Brosnan was and is not British! His accent is quasi- English mixed in with an Irish one. He left the UK many years ago and still has his Irish citizenship. Mila Kunis is open about her Ukrainian/Soviet/Jewish roots. She even speaks Russian in public!. She never sounded like an All American girl either!

Sam Smith as the first British man to play Bond!

How about someone like Michael Ealey? He's black, has blue eyes, and even though he isn't biracial, he could pass as someone whose mother is Swiss.

Ealy*

People overthink this China business. Truthfully, as someone working in development I can tell you that China is hardly the goal for any studio and I can assure you Black is neither a priority nor a concern of them.

Only 34 foreign films are allowed to enter China per year, it's a tough cookie to crack and more often than not, it's not worth the investment.

Their censorship system is random and stupid and you still have to compete with all other countries in the planet. They forbid magical or supernatural driven films, yet Coco and Harry Potter were hits; it's too random and idiotic of a system for studios to try to understand. There's a caveat here in which if you write 50% of the characters as Chinese you have the guarantee that you'll make it through (still no gays, no shunning China or communism, etc).

If you read the THEME report (linked here) you'll see what are the 10 most important international markets (China, Japan, UK, India, South Korea, France, Germany, Russia, Australia/Mexico/Brazil - these three bringing the same amount of gross). This report is the business' bible and their gospel.

They're more focused on the 9 markets mentioned here minus China than the other way around, for the reasons I've already mentioned.

In terms of VOD (Netflix, Amazon, etc), Mexico, Brazil, Canada and the UK, in that order are the most important markets, that's why Netflix is now inundated by Brazilian and Mexican shows and Amazon will soon follow suit.

If you read the report, you'll see Latino women are the ones paying the tickets, they should, by default be the number one concern, not Blacks who are now overrepresented. This Oscar too white is basically identity politics, it has nothing to do with the business and the suits are just pandering to them because all good PR is good for the business.

The thing is, Latinos, according to two other reports on audience behavior, don't mind seeing whites as protagonists, unlike Blacks who demand to see themselves. It has baffled the development departments why Latinos haven't demanded actively representation as Blacks do. Maybe it's a matter of time, who knows?

Latinos don't have the slavery/Jim Crow history to guilt trip their demands, since Americans are not Spanish conquistadors. It's anyone's guess what they could demand from now on.

This is my analysis from what I observe on a daily basis. Studios are still very racist, that much I can tell you and call the black demand for representation by several slurs I'd rather not reproduce here.

They don't complain as much about gay representation though. Surprisingly they are very gay friendly, the biggest hurdle being that most of the money to finance blockbusters today come from Arabic investors who are homophobes (sucking dick on the DL, but that's another story).

[quote]why Latinos haven't demanded actively representation as Blacks do.

What exactly are "Latinos"? Mexicans? Cubans? Puerto Ricans?

Do they even relate to one another?

R265 that's an easy answer. 60% of all Latinos in the US are of Mexican descent (from centuries old Texan families to newly arrived immigrants), so they are by far the most important group as far as studios are concerned.

For them, there's Mexicans, and then the rest, a very broad term they don't really care to explore further.

That's the cut and dry answer.

Can we begin again with a Black Poirot? Maybe Oprah for Miss Marple? She can be from St. Mary Madea!

R266 Mexicans identify with Whites....certainly not with Blacks.

But at the same time, most Mexicans grew up on telenovelas. And telenovelas while in Spanish, are always lead by white actors. You never see a dark skinned person in the lead roles of a novela. Which is why I guess most Latinx people aren't as demanding of seeing "themselves" on screen.

R268, that's one of the excuses studios use when mapping representation, they claim most Latino women (again, the ones really paying the tickets at the Box Office) really don't mind about watching whites on leading roles.

That has changed and I suspect a new wave of Latino representation (mostly Mexican) will come next and they will drown the Black representation, which I have already mentioned are not overrepresented.

Truly, studios would rather inundate movies and tv roles with Mexicans than blacks, most people in the business are really tired of this demand and whine, I'm not condoning this behavior at all, I'm just being honest with what I see on a daily basis.

not overrepresented = now overrepresented

A large portion of the Mexican population is of European background. They are white.

Wikipedia: " While the Mexican government does conduct ethnic censuses on which a Mexican has the option of identifying as “White” the results obtained from these censuses are not published. What Mexico’s government publish instead, is the percentage of “light-skinned Mexicans” there is in the country, with it being 47% in 2010 and 49% in 2017.

So ...OK...bring on the Latinos!

There's a lot of white latinos, specially from Argentina. Most latinoamerica population come from Spain, and contrary of a lot of people think spanish are very white (the fact that we don't burn when we try to tan doesn't change the fact that most of us are fair skinned)

A lot if agents and managers will start (and already do) to ask actors to say they are of Hispanic or Latin descent.

Recently acting coach Lesly Kahn told an actress to pretend to be latina.

Argentina and Brazil have the largest White Latino population.

Brazil has the biggest number of whites in Latin America by far. Unlike what many people think Argentina does have a considerable amount of mixed Latinos as well, just leave Buenos Aires and you'll see that.

As I've mentioned here before, I'm half Brazilian and white.

Neither Brazilians nor Argentinians are important demographics as far as the American Box office is concerned.

Brazilians and Mexicans are, as I've mentioned, very important to Netflix and other streaming services, specially Netflix because they make up the largest percentage of their subscriber base.

Amazon's new global strategy aims at stealing or vivaling Netflix by catering to Mexicans and Brazilians specifically.

Thing is the thing no one really talks about is audiences don't like having familiar characters change colors. They want characters to look the way, more or less, how they picture them. Black Panther features black characters--audiences are fine with that. Meanwhile, Wrinkle in Time did a major mix and match that annoyed all the white girls who'd loved the book and knew Meg Murray was a quintessential white girl and annoyed black audiences because Meg was looking for her white father (she wasn't black enough) and no one in the black community cared about the book in the first place.

Which Disney Princess movie was the least successful? Princess and the Frog where Disney tried to take a well-known European festival and turn it into some whacky story about a black girl in New Orleans who wants to run a restaurant. It's a good movie, by the way--well-animated, funny--but audiences didn't connect to it. Disney blamed it on 2-D animation, but that wasn't an issue with other movies. On the other hand, Princess movies that didn't colorwash, but used non-European stories, like Moana, Mulan and Pocohantas did extremely well. The Lion King, which used black voice actors for a story set in Africa did even better.

Specifity matters--James Bond epitomizes white male privilege--good and bad--take that away and he's not James Bond. Now, you might be able to get a very interesting series of films and stories by doing Jane or Jamal Bond, but it would be different. And it should be because that acknowledges that women and black men live in a different reality than James Bond.

a well-known European festival?

White women have to pretend they’re not attracted to black men.

If he becomes Bond, white women will rush to the theatres. They will be slipping their fingers down their panties and flick their clits throughout the movie

[quote] If he becomes Bond, white women will rush to the theatres. They will be slipping their fingers down their panties and flick their clits throughout the movie

Delusional frau or black person. I thought the whole world was racist?

R276 Well put, finally!

Very interesting r264 +

Best spy movie in recent years was "Spy", starring Melissa McCarthy.

R264 - "arabic investors" - which refers to whom? Princely linguists?

I find Idris Elba to be a fantastic actor. I also don't find him even remotely attractive or sexy. So, no.

R275 Argentina does have many more mixed people than it admits. It is not as white as claimed.

[quote]Best spy movie in recent years was "Spy", starring Melissa McCarthy.

Agreed. Spy was hilarious.

Also, the first Kingsmen was very good, as well. The sequel, not so much.

Both those sort of took the place of the fun and frothy spy flicks once held by Bond movies.

R246 - And that's always the point. It was always about money.

As for the alleged "magic of Daniel Craig's white skin", Jesus give the man some credit for having made a success of the role! It wasn't his skin colour, it was him. And if the producers think they can get the same bucks with a black Bond they'll do it in a heartbeat.

The danger is turning entertainment into a lecture. People go to the movies, especially in summer, to be entertained. And you mess with a formula at your peril.

The fate of the long awaited "A Wrinkle in Time" is an object lesson. It bombed - it got turned from a charming tale into a multi-kulti Self-Esteem For Girls Especially Brown Girls lecture and the original gestalt that gave it its charm drained out of it.

It isn't "time" for a black Bond. It's time for a new Bond who could do what Craig did with the first of his Bond films: bring a fresh feel and look to an increasingly jaded franchise.

R278 - If they weren't masturbating in the theatres at the sight of Sean Connery in Dr. No, I don't think they'll be doing it for Idris Elba. He's not the sexiest man ever to hit the planet. And believe it or not, there really are white women out there who don't find black men attractive - that's hysterical delusion of both black and white men. And he's pushing 50.

R284 - oh, come on. He's decent. His best work was Luther on BBC. He's no Craig and he's no Connery.

r191, no mainstream black film would flop abroad unless it also flopped here in America. Global audiences are used to seeing beautiful black people. You can thank hip-hop for that. You can also thank Will Smith, Beyonce, Denzel Washington, Whoopi Goldberg, Jennifer Lopez, and the cast of Black Panther.

R290 - er, did you just call Whoopi Goldberg "beautiful"? And Jennifer Lopez is a Latina, not black.

In the meantime, despite winning numerous awards and obtaining huge international visibility for 12 Years a Slave, neither Eijofor nor N'yongo can open a film on their own. Neither can Elba - he's tried and failed several times. Mind, so has Hemsworth - but apart from Thor, he can't, either. Some people just can't.

Jennifer Lopez is black?

R102 But Norton is sooooo wooden. Also have you seen him walk. He can't Bond walk.

R282 Maybe Bond should be a fat white American woman. Hillary as M, Bill Nye as Q. That's hitting a lot of demographics.

Forget Idris Elba. Modern Britain calls for a Modern British Bond.

Dear R295, your post is satirical so I'm confused whether to WW you or FF you.

Really! The answer to this dilemma is staring us all in the face.

And that answer is Henry William Dalgliesh Cavill!

Cavil is a solid choice looks-wise. Acting wise, I actually might like an abrupt change from Craig’s perpetually-tired Bond, back to a more traditional “vacationing all the time” Connery-style bond. Cavil’s campiness might not be too bad in that way.

The main issue I see is his hulking physique required for DC films. It’s a bit much for Bond.

R298 What DC films? No New Superman flicks coming anytime soon

Cavill needs to be seen in a good-looking, well-lit quality movie.

All those ridiculous Bruckheimer-ish cartoon movies have him clothed in darkness, growling half-sentence slogans before the next jump-cut to more ridiculous CGI pixellated nonsense.

Idris Elba as a male prostitute and Bond-girl Patsy Stone once appeared together so you can have an idea of his Bond.

Cavill’s wardrobe in “Fallout” was absolutely awful.

It made him look schlubby.

r292, No, but you racist fucks know what the fuck I mean. People of color.

R302 We can be assured Henry will be perfectly groomed in the No-Expense-spared Bond franchise.

R303 Your ungracious response doesn't dispose listeners to appreciate your point of view

OH, poccies.

Henry should get his teeth fixed as well. On the big screen it’s distracting.

Wes Bentley had the same problem in “Fallout “

[QUOTE]In the meantime, despite winning numerous awards and obtaining huge international visibility for 12 Years a Slave, neither Eijofor nor N'yongo can open a film on their own. Neither can Elba - he's tried and failed several times.

What actors on the Bond list are known for opening films well? Shit, what actors, period, besides Tom Cruise and The Rock even have a good track record of doing so these days? Movies are a franchise business now. Hardly any actor can carry a film on their back these days.

r304, stfu before I strangle yo white neck. Don't speak on this thread again.

Skyscraper made all its money out of the USA.

Dwane is Black and Polynesian.

R308 Oh fuck off back to the corna with ya gangster shit, fucking retard

R260, you’re arguing with yourself. No one said that Brosnan was British by citizenship, but he’s “close enough” to British culturally because he spent his entire teenagehood and grew up in Britain. He could be Chinese by citizenship for all people care – he spent his teenage formative years in Britain, he was shaped as a young person by British culture.

I studied Slavic languages, and Mila Kunis actually has a thick American accent when trying to speak in her original language. She also said she can’t write in it at all and can barely read it. And she didn’t sound Ukrainian at all in That 70s Show, she sounded passably American.

This is called culture immersion during a person’s formative period: the country / culture where you grow up during teenagehood (impressionable school years) shapes you as a person, even to the point of shaping your accent.

[quote] most spanish and portuguese are totally white

Um, I wouldn't say "most" are "white", R243. Some Spanish and Portuguese are light-skinned with light eyes, but more often they are naturally darker than their northern cousins.

[quote] And latino is an heritage not a race

No one said it was a race. It's not always "heritage" either - it's a collective ethnicity. "Heritage" is a more complex and flexible term, and can include places where generations of your ancestors lived for a long time and had a home (e.g. India), even if the ancestors themselves were not ethnically Indian (e.g. they were nomadic gypsies).

This is so stupid, no matter what you think, Southern Europeans are white people.

Persians are white people too, R314.

If the fact Bond's mother was Swiss was of any importance we'd have seen him speak French as part of his job.

Whoa! @ R311 - now THAT was racist.

The Saudis are "totally white" too, R314.

So are the Iraqis, Turks, etc. And most of the Arab Peninsula is "totally white" too. But the discussion was about naturally darker ethnicities (including Turkey, Spain, etc), not about who is or isn't nominally Caucasian.

Seems as if he has hinted he got the part on twitter.

I don't know, he apparently is 45, but to be honest he looks a lot older, 50 -55 maybe, so when he starts filming he may look even older.

Idris Elba has gotten too old to play Bond by now, should have gone with Cavill tbh. Or a younger black actor if they feel that would be better for the franchise than another white guy.

The film and he will be immune for criticism, Elba sort is anyway. People are terrified to say anything bad about him, but he is incredibly overrated as a an actor he totally one dimensional and can really only play himself.

"Arguably, Hollywood shouldn’t be blaming Chinese racism for its decision not to export black films; Chinese should be blaming Hollywood racism for failing to produce authentic portrayals of black people.

Hollywood has spent decades now proclaiming and defending an egregious orthodoxy that says that films without white protagonists “cannot travel” abroad—projecting America’s own original sin of endemic, systemic racism, and anti-blackness onto societies with dramatically different histories.

Conscious or unconscious, this appears to be a manifestation of the industry’s tendency to protect its proprietary star-making apparatus, and the white privilege that’s baked into it."

As I think of it, and this is an aside from the main topic, but it seems like we go from movies like 12 Years a Slave, to Black Panther, and there's very little on offer in between. So gems like Hidden Figures or Moonlight get lost. If we're talking about subliminal racism in Hollywood as in the rest of the culture, there are a million wonderful stories we could be telling.

Anyone who thinks Norton is wooden hasn't seen him as the sociopath rapist in Happy Valley.

Nooo to Norton or Tom Hughes.

I’ll thrown another name into the mix, Richard Madden. Make Bond Scottish again. Some folks are saying his role in Bodyguard is compelling case for Bond.

Cavill as Bond? Please, you're Just joking now. The guy is a stiff. Very good looking, sure but he's a gorgeous lump. I enjoyed his Superman but Superman is supposed to be humorless. He was really good in Man From UNCLE but that played to his strengths, had a good script, and it was camp.

In Bond World, he'd be Roger Moore--no, George Lazenby!--not Connery.

Boris Kodjoe. he's a terrible actor, but OMG he is beautiful.

r323, Hidden Figures made close to 200 million bucks. The old mantra "black stars don't sell abroad" is just a lie to protect the hollywood star making system. Its the reason white guys like ryan reynolds can make 10,000 flops before they finally land a hit.

I bet films with African-American actors break all foreign box office records on the African continent.

Does that statistically balance out the books from potential low revenue from the Asian continent?

[quote]Cavill as Bond? Please, you're Just joking now. The guy is a stiff.

I think he’d be perfect for the role as Bond, besides, Bond is a bit of a “stiff” anyway. Or stiff upper lip type of guy, as it were.

[quote] I agree with you.... Are we casting the correct actor for the part or are we just casting a black actor because it's "time" and " the right thing to do".....why does no one ever talk about Bond as an Asian? The new actor that stars in Crazy Rich Asians would be great. Young, sexy, British.....

Elba would make the best Bond. He's naturally charismatic, mature, and has that elegance, and a reputation for being one the most fashionable and well dressed men in Hollywood. The fact that he should be the next bond should have nothing to do with his race as there are no other actors, black or white, that I can imagine being a better choice. He just oozes Bond in this photo.

More evidence.

Let' be honest. Besides being a credible action star, the other most important requirement for Bond is masculinity and promoting high end fashion. It's no accident that, like Elba, Craig models for GQ and other luxury brands. All the other stars mentioned in this thread are either too young or too gritty for Bond. Elba would be perfect.

"A black Bond is less interesting. Color and identity politics becomes a factor so meh."

Who said "identity politics" have to be part of the movie - it'll just be an action movie with a black lead. Big whoop. Btw, you need to learn how to speak English.

[quote]r331 Elba ... one the most fashionable and well dressed men in Hollywood.

LOL. He's not even [bold]IN[/bold] Hollywood. He's in Britain only.

"If he becomes Bond, white women will rush to the theatres. They will be slipping their fingers down their panties and flick their clits throughout the movie"

Spoken like someone who has never met a woman. Women don't masturbate at movies - even stuff like Playgirl is mostly consumed by gay men

[QUOTE]Hollywood has spent decades now proclaiming and defending an egregious orthodoxy that says that films without white protagonists “cannot travel” abroad—projecting America’s own original sin of endemic, systemic racism, and anti-blackness onto societies with dramatically different histories.

Sounds like that guy in here who keeps harping about “the suits.” He just doesn’t want to see a black man reporting for duty as 007.

[QUOTE]Who said "identity politics" have to be part of the movie - it'll just be an action movie with a black lead. Big whoop. Btw, you need to learn how to speak English.

Apparently any role that doesn’t involve straight white men is defined as “identity politics.” They’re affirmative action hires who didn’t earn the role like all the white actors before them—they’re only put in place to appease certain minorities and genders. These motherfuckers are in here sounding like members of the alt-right.

R329 Darling, the native nignogs don't have money for the cinema. It's 100 km away from their shithole home and they're saving up to pay the people smugglers.

Sorry but Elba is too Eastenders for Bond.

Sue me but I think Luke Evans would make a good Bond

But he’s gay. That would be identity politics!

BTW being arrogant and full of yourself (which Elba is) is not the same as being charismatic (which Elba is not).

Why must one be British to play a Brit? Are jumping the wagon on the trans must be played by trans too?

My best friend Sonia who's Russian says Mila speaks Russian with an Ukrainian accent ( which is expected) and no American accent. Actually you can hear her fluency without actually speaking it. She says the grammar is not perfect much like Jenifer Lopez speaking Spanish.

Welcome to the datalounge, where Henry Cavill is charismatic and a brilliant actor but Idris Elba isn't.

r344 is one of several "English as a second language" trolls that are infesting this thread.

R341 I'd love to see Evans as Bond. I agree! I also like the idea of Idris as Bond for reason ably state by R331.

I also agree that Luke would be great. However Luke Evans is gay. Gay Bond = identity politics.

I’d like to see a character like Luther written into Bond movies just for Idris. He was fantastic in Luther and that could translate to a movie franchise. He’s not Bond and they’d kill the series if they cast him.

Did some "identity politics" troll wander over here from freerepublic.com?

[quote] This is called culture immersion during a person’s formative period: the country / culture where you grow up during teenagehood (impressionable school years) shapes you as a person, even to the point of shaping your accent

Bullshit. I'm literally this and I am fluent. I've basically lived every two years in a different nation back and forth.

Morena Baccarin speaks fluent Brazilian Portuguese (no accent) and English (no accent) and came to the US same age as Mila at 12. One of the reasons Kunis became a star is because she can pass as a native, you're stretching.

[QUOTE]Did some "identity politics" troll wander over here from freerepublic.com?

That was sarcasm.

R318: Spain is not only Andalucía. People seems to think that all spaniards look like Antonio Banderas. Spain is a big country and culturally very diverse. Flamenco is only popular on the south of the country (the same with bullfights, which by the way are increasely unpopular).

The sterotype of short, brown eyed and brunette no longer is that representative. Of course spanish don't look like swedish, but neither the french or the italian.

And going to the Bond theme. I think the main problem is identity politics, one thing is trying to chose your new Bond, making the casting and find the most suitable actor is a black actor and other very different is chosing a black Bond for the sake of being black. It's not only identity politics but american identity politics on a british character.

Bond is not exactly a deep character, people go to watch Bond movies for the pure entertaiment. They made changes to adapt the character to the new times but those changes made sense, changing the race of a known character for the sake of it could be seen as pushing an agenda. It won't be difficult to introduce a black character on a Bond movie and then start a franchise with him

R342: The actor being gay shouldn't be a problem, a womanizer straight character being suddenly gay would be a problem for sure

r352 is spot on.

R352 is right. Of the actors listed, the one that strikes me a real possibility is Richard Madden--he's young, but Craig is still doing another Bond film or two, so by the time the new Bond comes around, Madden will be the right age for a younger, hipper bond. He's famous, but not so famous that his persona will overtake that of Bond. He already showed he can do the action hero/heart throb thing as Robb Stark in Game of Thrones.

Idris Elba rumors have now been debunked. Seems to me that feelers were put out to see what the reaction would be

And the reaction was overwhelming positive.

[QUOTE]And the reaction was overwhelmingly* positive.

R356 Really? It wasn't on this thread. I think you see what you want to see.

R345 English is not my second language, but my phone's autocorrect randomly changes words in four different languages, like Jennifer to Jenifer, photo to foto (Dutch Spanish and Portuguese) etc, but by all means let's attack the orthography rather than the message. It's not my fault I'm fluent in several languages and you're not. 🤓

Now back to what's relevant to this conversation.

'12 Years a Slave' is a slavery film. It wins awards and does well at the box office because it's considered a token film. I know it's not a politically correct term but that's what it is. It's the subject people care about to feel good about themselves once a year, like buying gifts to poor children on Christmas then forgetting about them the rest of the year.

[quote]Hollywood has spent decades now proclaiming and defending an egregious orthodoxy that says that films without white protagonists “cannot travel” abroad—projecting America’s own original sin of endemic, systemic racism, and anti-blackness onto societies with dramatically different histories.

Oh boy... I know it's hard for the victimhood mentality to see this, but Hollywood is a business after profits. They are resistant to selling black movies abroad because well-researched reports such as THEME and others shows us that most people simply won't watch blacks as protagonists. Call it racism or whatever you prefer, but until the public opinion changes, the business model will remain as it is. If suddenly everyone demands only blacks as leads, you bet your ass they'll be leads in perpetuity.

They're still trying to figure out what to do with Hidden Figures, which did ok abroad but nothing spectacular ($60 million foreign). The consensus behind the scenes is that it did well because it was led by WOMEN not because it had black protagonists, so this discussion is still going on. Could this interpretation be racist? Possibly, but we don't know. It did well domestically with $160 million but they still say this success has to do with feminism showing that women want to see themselves in positions of power and as contributors to society throughout history.

They claim Get Out is just an example of low budget horror film doing well and that's it. It's hard to say if people watched Get Out out of curiosity of its racial undertones or just because it's a really good horror flick, the opinions are split on that one. I personally think Get Out is your exceptional zeitgeisty movie hitting all the right notes at the right time. Those movies are rare.

Maybe Black Panther will convince the business to change its model. I personally doubt it. They're already arguing that it's doing great out of being a Marvel established IP and for being the token black superhero film. There's a blatant racist (this time it's really racist) undertone while reading this movie's success. They think this is the token black superhero movie and that this is enough to cover. It's this era's token slavery film. Are they right? We'll see.

'Sorry to Bother You' is a fantastic quirky indie whose director is now accusing distributors of racism on Twitter, because no one wants to sell it overseas. The movie is a hit and made $16 million against a 4 million budget. The reason this movie won't sell abroad is patent, the movie is nonsensical and sometimes very confusing, it's a festival type of film not a box office movie with mass appeal.

If he believes so much in his film why not finance its international distribution himself? Crazy Rich Asians did that, they believe in their movie and turned down a Netflix offer to return their investment because they think the movie needs to be a box office hit and be seen in theaters. They mean business and don't pay lip service to it.

So, not everything is racist.

[QUOTE]Really? It wasn't on this thread. I think you see what you want to see.

I see fine. What thread were you reading? There are far more posts receptive to the idea of Idris as Bond than those against it. Most of the anti-Idris posts came from one guy who kept harping about the friggin Chinese.

R355 He's the right age but there's something off about his face and not in the Craig way where he's not conventionally handsome but it works.

R359 I think blacks being cast in more mainstream roles is progress. Releasing social justice or awards bait films a couple times a year and handing them awards is just patronizing. I also noticed this phenomenon with gay films. Apparently, the only gay films that do well with mainstream audiences are those films that tell the same coming out story or gays being victimized again and again.

Are people really complaining about an almost certainly semi naked Elba?

I'm all for Idris Elba in skimpy swim trunks. But he needs to get rid of the white in his beard and hair. I typically don't mind the salt and pepper look, but it doesn't work on him

Other than that, bring on the Elva vpl!

R360, it's more than one person and I'd say the reaction to Idris Elba as Bond is mixed.

This thread reminds me of a scene in Kingsmen's Service, don't know exact title, it is something like a Bond for the 21st century, where Colin Firth makes fun of old fool Michael Caine, I think it had to do with Firth's candidate for recruit being working class chav, regarding his growing up. I'm also reminded by a scene in Batman The animated series, where terrorist Red Claw says no wonder no one takes Britain serious anymore, that was 1990, things definitely haven't gotten better since then. Of course Western societies have to be active against overalienation, but e.g. being against the closet so much and pushing Western European male straights and bis in the gay corner as dlers do a lot, and creating so many bases for false gay rumors about regular people, certainly helps a lot for overalienation of the West.

R366 .....what?

R350, you sound very unnerved. Sorry, but no one cares about you and your life story, it’s irrelevant. Brosnan didn’t live merely “2 years in a different nation back and forth” like you – he moved away from Ireland and settled in Britain for a continuous uninterrupted period, for his entire schooling from age 11.

[quote] One of the reasons Kunis became a star is because she can pass as a native, you're stretching.

As a native what? American – yes, she can pass. Ukrainian/Soviet Russian – she's native, but she can't speak it properly. She sounds like an American person speaking French with a stereotypical American accent, that’s how thick her American accent is in that Slavic language. Her American schooling obviously influenced and shaped the way she speaks.

This thread has become weirdly compelling.

What seems to be more and more obvious is that the people complaining most about Elba as even being in the mix are getting a bit unhinged.

"About time, innit, if he gets it" seems to be the general reaction of Brits.

R369 Got link to back your contention?

Luke Evans? Now there's a guy who is not going to age well.

Richard Madden, I know the production of Cinderella was very stylized and they pushed the color saturation but in one of the stills I saw, his teeth were blindingly white. Almost fluorescent. i hope that was someone in the publicity dept having a little fun.

What about the guy who played Matthew on Downton? Dan Stevens. After all, didn't it say upthread that Bond was blond?

Not any Brits I know r369.

[quote]A new character in the Bond series...absolutely, but Bond 007 is a white man. Sorry,,not sorry.

Oh honey, you know James Bond is a fictional character, right?

Oh honey, you know James Bond was written as a white man, right?

Black Panther is a fictional character, should he be played by Richard Madden?

R374 In this new exciting age, authors intent seemingly counts for naught

I'm tossing Matthew Goode ( Hmmm, I wish.. ) into the mix, just because...

Also I would love to see Benedict Cumberbatch play MLK someday - it's great to re imagine roles up in casting

[quote]Oh honey, you know James Bond was written as a white man, right?

And as we all know every single Bond movie since 1962 has been produced strictly according to Canon. Bond must always be played by a Scottish national, the period must always reflect 1962, the bad guys must all be Soviet and women must all be cheap bimbos in cheap negligees.

The Bond universe has progressed a bit since Dr. No, and the skin color of Bond seems to be the one sticking point here. I wonder why.

R377 Actually a white man did play MLK in 'The Mountaintop' on stage. Caused a shit storm of course, as colour blind casting, as we all know, only operates one way

Is there really an audience for a white MLK, aside from racist theater queens?

R380 Is that question the same as 'Is there really an audience for a black Emily Pankhurst'? You cannot colour blind cast a historical figure is fucking ridiculous in everyway

[quote] Disney has come under fire after selecting a straight actor Jack Whitehall, 30, to play the studios' first ever openly gay character in The Jungle Cruise.

[quote] Is there really an audience for a white MLK, aside from racist theater queens?

There might be. At least enough of one to justify the King family immortalizing Martin as a double-amputee white man.

Aren't there like 50 Bond films already? Those will always exist. Bond has become just another carbon copy of the other big budget action franchises out right now. Sure, I'll still watch them but if I'm feeling nostalgic, I'll just watch the old films.

I have to laugh at those opposed to Elba's casting recommending baby faced actors to play Bond. And Henry Caville doesn't have any charisma whatsoever.

R238 - Hidden Figures had Kevin Costner - a well known name, and the story was very appealing and, I might add, very well marketed. By contrast, "A Wrinkle in Time" was very badly marketed, badly timed, and bombed compared to its huge $100 million+ budget, bringing in $132 million - a bit less than that terrible bomb "Pan". "Fences" got a lot of recognition but it's box office total was under $58 million. 12 Years a Slave did a bit under $200 million, but Django Unchained did $454 million.

All of which is to say, that just as with all films, black or white opening actors, you never know how it's going to do and the successes and failures are spread over a curve. Black Panter was a Marvel superhero story and hyped beyond belief before release. But Thor: Infinity War still outsold it the following year.

I notice no one has responded to the astonishing statistic that a major male actor in a film adds about 12% in profits to a film's bottom line; a major female actor in a film adds absolutely $0 to profits to a film's bottom line.

And none of Elba's supporters have responded to the fact that every big screen film he's tried to open and star in has bombed at the box office - I mean, DOA. You didn't see millions of women rushing to masturbate in the theatre for those films, did you?

R386 I wanna see 'Thor - Infinity War' sounds cool

R382 - Oh ffs - do they know Daniel Radcliffe wasn't really a wizard?

This is the whole double standard mentioned upthread: black Hamlet, no problem; black Emma Pankhurst, no problem; black middle-aged actress as teenaged white French princess, no problem; black Henry V, no problem . . .

But let a straight actor play a gay one, or a white actress play Maria in West Side Story, or Rooney Mara play Tinker Bell, or a white bass-baritone sing Porgy, and all hell breaks loose. It's stupid beyond belief.

How about an all white production of "Raisin in the Sun" set on the Lower East Side of Manhattan in the 1920s with Polish Jewish immigrants?

Am outraged that no one has even considered that Oprah would make a superb James Bond

R386 - It was a bit overcrowded for my taste, though still enjoyable. I liked Thor: Ragnarok better, the humour was better distributed in the script and [spoiler alert for both fims] it had the benefit of Hiddleston's Loki all the way through. Hiddleston was a superlative Loki. Instead of hankering after 007 himself, Hiddleston would make a very suave amusing Bond villain, and he's probably walk off with the film under 007's nose, just as he walked off with the Thor films under Hemsworth's nose.

Excellent, this thread really didn't have enough false equivalence.

[quote]Anyone who thinks Norton is wooden hasn't seen him as the sociopath rapist in Happy Valley.

It was probably the same contrarian who said Norton is fat. Someone here really doesn't like James Norton.

Someone else suggested Dan Stevens, but I really don't see him as Bond. He's had a light, boyish quality in everything I've seen him in. He'd be no more convincing than Aidan Turner or Jamie Dornan, despite being a better actor.

Luke Evans isn't such a bad idea.

What about Theo James? Can he actually act? I haven't seen much of his work but he'd be physically convincing.

Max Irons? Julian Ovenden? Shazad Latif? I'm just randomizing now.

R383 Then Chinese-looking double-amputee white man looks so very WRONG.

Poldark!

R391 I'd randomize Shazad Latif any day. Gorgeous, gorgeous man....!

R391 - Stevens lacks what Turner has: major sex appeal, and don't discount Turner's acting chops - he's getting good reviews in the West End onstage as "The Lieutenant of Inishmore". He could have leaned on his looks in "Hattie" and didn't, he could have done so in "Being Human" and he didn't, and in "Desperate Romantics" and he didn't; and he was excellent as the mercenary in the remake of "And Then There Were None".

Turner has a quality that none of the other actors mentioned have, and that Connery had, and that is rare in men: he's sultry.

I think everyone is underestimating Turner.

Sorry to say, R395, that I thought Turner was a bit weak in Being Human. He was fine in And Then There Were None but nothing memorable IMHO. To be fair, I need to see more of his work. (I'll look for Hattie.) I quite like him actually, and you don't need to tell me he has major sex appeal because WOOF, but I think he has a puckish quality that would really shine in comedies. When he gets serious I become aware that he's acting, if that makes sense.

"Hidden Figures had Kevin Costner - a well known name, and the story was very appealing and, I might add, very well marketed"

You think Hidden Figures did well because of Costner? LOL, every recent film Costner has done where he played the lead has bombed. How many people rushed to the theater to see Draft Day?

"This is the whole double standard mentioned upthread: black Hamlet, no problem; black Emma Pankhurst, no problem; black middle-aged actress as teenaged white French princess, no problem; black Henry V, no problem . . ."

Do you not see the difference? White actors have way more opportunities than black ones, most playwrights and screenwriters are white and write white characters.

R67 You say Aiden Turner is too short. His nose is, also, too long.

He needs the 18th-century long hair to balance it out just like drag queens need big hair to balance out their man-jaws.

Aidan Turner is a much better choice than Cavill or Dan Stevens

R397, It seems to me the solution to that is to have more black characters written. Plenty of black actors and commenters have said so--if you do a search on Idris Elba and James Bond on Twitter you'll see several suggest that there should be a black spy movie not a black James Bond.

As for opportunities--there are also a lot more white actors--particularly in Britain where only 3 percent of the population is black. I think you can make a stronger argument for an Anglo-Indian Bond if you're going that route.

r400, except people "write what they know" and most screenwriters, being white, will write white leads for their movies. Black characters tend to be supporting characters - look, the white lead has a black friend!!!

I WAS JOKING ABOUT DAN STEVENS

R401 Cough 'that definitely does not explain 'Straight White Men' on B'way at the moment

r386, You have no credibility. Box office poison Kevin Costner did not make hidden Figures #1 with his supporting role. Get the fuck outta here. Taraji and Octavia Spencer both have huge fanbases. Taraji also starred in the #1 drama on tv at the time. A compelling story with great acting made the film such a huge hut.

It will break all kinds of box office records.

I do hope he will be running around half naked.

OP Why did you put 'likely' in the title? As this whole situation was initiated by Elba tweeting 'Bond, James Bond' and there is no deal or even talks betwixt Elba and Babs, why put likely in the title? 'Desperate' would suit the situation better

When will they remake Mandingo and really slut it up?

R386, Daniel Craig wasn't exactly a box office star before he started doing the Bond movies. Craig was in the same category as someone like Phillip Seymour Hoffman. (RIP). An actor's actor, doing a lot of indie work, and famous largely in the UK.

Isn’t Aidan Turner like 6 ft tall? How is that short? It’s avg for an actor.

Max Irons is so gorgeous. He might be too pretty.

Off topic, but on Hidden Figures, maybe it took Kevin Costner to get the financing, but the audience came for Taraji (Empire) and Janelle Monae. They both have a following. And Octavia Spencer has acting cred.

Perhaps it would be best to return to the original 1954 version of Bond played by an American as god intended.

Max Irons is gorgeous but blah

Gaspard Ulliel or Matthias Schoenaerts

Jamie Bell

I fancy Matthias Schoenaerts but he looks a bit like Vladimir Putin.... So, he would make an excellent Russian Agent Who Gets In A Really Good Fight With Bond or Villain's Main Henchman Who Dies Dramatically

R414 Jamie Bell as 007. 'No Mr Bond, I expect you to dance...'

Aiden Turner is too slender, too pointy-looking. Even shirtless on Poldark, he has nicely defined and anachronistic (!) muscles but he looks lightweight. He would need to add bulk somehow. Plus half his looks are due to the hair and he'd have to cut that. He falls into the Timothy Dalton category. He has the right voice though.

R397 - did you read the rest of the sentence? You know the bits about it being a very appealing story and very well marketed? Did I way it was ONLY because of Costner? I did not. It's typical in films like this where the other primary characters aren't household words to add a "name" to jack up the visibility. Does it always work? No. Does it often work? Yes.

I'll repeat for the third time the study I read in The Guardian's Culture section a few weeks ago: a major actor in a film generally adds 12% to the film's bottom line profits; a major actress adds 0% to the film's bottom line profits.

This isn't just about race. More people who didn't know those black actresses' names were likely to see the film because they recognised Costner's name. It's a very old Hollywood custom. Why else do you think Natalie Wood got the role of Maria rather than Carol Lawrence? Why else do you think Audrey Hepburn got the role of Eliza in the film version of "My Fair Lady"? She couldn't sing worth a damn, and Marnie Nixon did her voice the way she did Deborah Kerr's in "The King and I" and Natalie Wood's in "West Side Story".

It really isn't just about race. "Hidden Figures" was a charming, appealing, uplifting and positive film, with a major male star on the marquee. "A Wrinkle in Time" had a major black name female star on the marquee, Oprah Winfrey - it barely made its money back, and it was the first time in history a black female director got that kind of money ($100 million+ for the budget).

R417 - Turner (and that's Aidan not Aiden - there is an Aiden Turner and I think he may be a model/porn start) is taller than Craig, who wasn't nearly as bulky naturally as he was made into for Bond (they dialed that back after the first one as many thought it made Craig look positively simian) and it worked. Brosnan wasn't bulky, either.

I don't agree his looks are all down to the hair - he has a gorgeous face, long red lips, deep dark eyes, noooo not just the hair. (Have I looked closely? Yes.)

"Hattie" was a BBC film on the collapse of the marriage of comedienne Hattie Jacques from the late 1950s - it is based on a true story. It was one of Turner's earliest one-off TV leads. He plays the young stud who wrecked the reasonably happy marriage of Jacques. It's a somewhat bizarre story and in many ways very sad, and features an absolutely tremendous performance by Ruth Jones, a fat early forties actress who plays Jacques. In this day and age, it took guts I think for her to take off her clothes for graphic sex scenes with the perhaps 27 year old Turner. Robert Bathurst played the feckless husband - it was very fine ensemble work, and Turner managed to convey the young chav's petulance, ego, but at the same time genuine love for Jacques. I recommend it for something different.

I'm not suggesting Turner is Daniel Day Lewis, but then, neither was Connery.

Do take a look at "Hattie" (if you're American, you'd need a region-free DVD player if you can't stream it on Netflix) - it's worth the time generally, but certainly not least for Turner.

R409 - If Turner (for whom I have made my lust clear in many posts) is 6', I am actually 35 years old. He's not short, but in my estimation maybe 5'10 or so. He has a long torso and if he'd gotten the length of leg that went with the rest of him he probably would be 6'. But he isn't.

Not that that's a problem - if the 5'9" Craig could be considered, the longer, leaner Turner certainly could.

I also think Turner might be about 5’10. He walked past me this week at the Noël Coward Theatre (where he’s starring in a play), and that would be my rough estimate.

[quote]I WAS JOKING ABOUT DAN STEVENS

Datalounge - indeed, the whole world - is at peak stupidity. This is no time for light sarcasm.

R420 - Actors always lie about their heights, and when they don't, their PR reps do. (Cf. Meghan Markle claiming 5'7" on her CV all these years when she might b 5'5" on a good day).

Yes, that's where The Lieutenant of Inishmore is playing, the Noel Coward.

When Hiddleston did Coriolanus at the Donmar they had to have security block off the alleyways because of his hysterical Dragonfly fans. I think it's notable, although I'm not sure for what, that the same thing hasn't happened at the Noel Coward for Turner. That may say something decent about him keeping his private life private, but also may point up the difference in their standing as stars.

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R422 Actors always lie about their heights, and when they don't, their PR reps do.

that's true Brad Pitt is 172 cm, Jolie is 164 cm but they both like 10 cm to their height

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He's the second gay Bond after Craig!

I hope he doesn't get too thirsty for the role like Hiddleston did.

Assbender is also 178 but claims he's 183!

Kevin Costner, who I stopped wanted to fuck soon after No Way Out, suddenly seemed very hot daddy in Hidden Figures. I was staring and drooling to my own surprise.

Was it because he was playing someone with morals and a decent if not saintly boss.

Idris Elba is too old to start Bond. This is ridiculous.

I've seen Daniel Craig from about 15 feet away; he's 5'6" or 5'7," IMO.

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Thank you for your response r418. I will see if I can find Hattie. I watched an episode of his vampire series but the story didn't interest me enough to keep watching. I guess my objection is his features are too fine, too delicate. He's too pretty.

Connery had that classic movie star look, even when young he looked "mature". Like Clark Gable and Spencer Tracy always look grown up and older than us, even if they were not. Daniel Craig achieves a similar thing because his face is kind of busted. Also he *is* getting older. Aidan Turner is just too smooth. I don't think they can go from a rough Bond to a pretty one, not these days.

Alfonso Bassave should get the part, he is incredibly handsome, but not in a pretty boy way, he looks as if he has danger to him and cool enough to play the part.

R434: He is spanish and gay, so i doubt he'll even be considered

Also they won't announce who the next Bond it until at least 2020, not while Craig is still the active Bond, that would never happen. They won't announce who takes over from Craig until the the next Bond film goes into production.

R422 I also think not having a social media presence helps Turner to avoid the Hiddleston nonsense (initially TH would bait fans, he loved the attention). Turner seems to be more about the work and didn’t engage in the PR nonsense. After Swift nonsense, Hiddleston’s PR people wisely rethought their plan.

R437: Hiddleston hit a wall when he dated Taylor Swift for some reason that work for him way worse than others and had a very negative effect on him. Which frankly i'm very glad, if PR relationships implosion that way more ofter Hollywood would get rid of that ridiculous way of promotion

R422 - I agree, Turner seems to take the whole thing in a much more businesslike manner; Hiddleston got carried away with himself.

And, as R438 points out, Hiddleston also made a fool of himself with the Swift debacle. In fairness, Turner is by all odds a bona fide hetero and doesn't have anything to prove, whilst Hiddleston has probably been twisting himself about like a pretzel trying to figure out how to turn into a leading man without coming out, which probably marred his efforts.

And, it's also likely that Turner has a more realistic appreciation of his own level and feels lucky to get where he has. He's the son of a South Dublin electrician. Hiddleston has a double First in Classics from Cambridge, is posh, more entitled, and is probably I have to say the more gifted actor. I doubt Turner could have pulled off Prince Hal in Henry IV as well as Hiddleston did, or do the stretch HIddleston did in "I Saw the Light". In a way, it's harder for Hiddleton than someone like Turner, who realises he could have ended up an electrician instead of Poldark, onstage at the Noel Coward, etc., and is counting his blessings instead of feeling ill-done by because he didn't turn into the British Brad Pitt.

Funny old world, innit?

R433 - Well, no one will give you an argument on Connery's stature as classic movie star. I will be interested in your review if you can find and watch "Hattie". Really, it is worth it for Ruth Jones's performance, which was the core of the film, despite the fine ensemble work among the three central players. I read some interviews with her and one reason she made the film was to show a woman who didn't conform to modern notions of beauty as the love object of a very sexually desirable young man.

Some actors (of either gender) can't do sex, it's curious, but they just can't ooze it on screen even if they are physically attractive. Bond absolutely must be able to suggest sex even when not being actively sexual. Meryl Streep is a classic example: even when young and reasonably pretty, she simply couldn't do sex. Cumberbatch is another one; he simply can't.

I promise you, after you see "Hattie", you'll have to agree that at the very least, Turner can "do sex". So can Craig. So could Connery. I think Elba can, as well, although I've only seen him do a brief not very intense love scene with his wife on "Luther".

I ❤️T.S.

I vote for British actor, James Norton.

R442 - Norton is gorgeous, in my opinion. He is, by the way, a committed Christian and went to Ampleforth, the country's best-known Catholic university, before heading to Cambridge where he got a First in Theology. Ampleforth has been in the news lately, and not for good reasons - I wonder if Norton experienced any of the sexual abuse there.

I think he's a dish and I liked what he did with the Vicar in "Grantchester".

How about perennial DL fave - blond Brit Bradley James ? He's young, but he's very good with a sword. I'm sure he can handle all kinds of other weapons in the service of Queen And Country

Make Q the new Bond

Matthias Schoenaerts

Jamie Bell is the same height or 2 cm shorter than Craig. Craig ain't 178 in real life he's 178 cm with heels without heels he's 172 cm or 170 cm

Mark Strong

Bell is not the same height as Craig

R448 - Strong is a wonderful actor but he's just not right.

R445 - Now THAT would be quite a "first" on so many counts I don't know where to start: thin and anemic, openly gay, short, and promoted to "field work" from being Q.

I'd fuck him in a heartbeat for that feral face of his, intensity, and talent - but . . . he'll never pass that physical they gave 007 in Skyfall.

Danny Dong

Whishaw is not short he's 5' 9" (1.75 m)

Daniel Craig barefoot

Chiwetel Ejiofor he's younger than Idris

I still say Cavill is the best choice. Tall at 6’1”, chiseled jaw, blue eyes, dark hair. Sure he’s a bit of a douche off screen, but he could pull this off better than the others I’ve seen mentioned here.

r456, he can't act.

Tom Hughes

Cavill is the worst choice he's an awful actor

Norton looks like a younger Peter Graves.

@r457 is good acting THAT important for action movies like the Bond franchise?

Freddie Fox

In addition to being a bad actor, Cavill is also bland and uninteresting

Colin Morgan

Age: 32

Height: 6' (1.83 m)

R446 It's been said before. Matthias Schoenaerts is very, very sexy and kind of like a hotted up Putin.

He'd be a superb Bond Villain or a worthy adversary. That would be a fabulous role for him

Colin Morgan was "helped" by Kevin Spacey early in his career

R466 No

Colin Morgan is delish...... but casting wise, I think he's more boffin than Bond

In defense of Cavills acting, I don’t think he was bland or boring as August Walker in Fallout. It’s off screen that Cavill is disappointing imo, with his bearding and stupid statements on various issues. On screen, he’s a decent actor. Especially if he gets something to really work with.

R455 - Eijofor lacks charisma, intensity, and raw sex appeal. He's no more fit for Bond than Henry Cavill, I don't care how tall Cavill is. Roger Moore was tall, too, and he was a joke as Bond.

The roles that don't require the range of a Shakespearean are exactly the ones that require the most charisma and the best instincts. You don't have to be a Great Actor but you still have to be a good actor.

R458 - Ahhhhh, Tom Hughes, that photo looks like it's from "The Game", something I enjoyed him in (alas only from afar). Afraid he doesn't have enough of a profile yet, but he'd do for me in the role. He's from the same area as Craig - Cheshire - and RADA trained. But I think I mentioned that once upthread.

And I believe he's at least 6' or so.

r467, you are wrong.

Stanley Weber from Outlander, 32, over 6ft and gorgeous, but French.

UK GQ has some suggestions....some are good but some are TERRIBLE. Harry Styles?!

Ben Whishaw + Benedict Cumberbatch = Colin Morgan

R453 - 5'9" is what everyone else is saying is too short for Bond - Craig is about 5'9" and frankly, if Whishaw is an inch over 5'7-5'8"" I'd be surprised - another actor lying about his height. His co-star in "The Hour", Romola Garai, is listed as 5'9" and she towered over him - not just in height but frame. He's just too slight for the role, never mind being openly gay and already Q.

Here’s my top 3: 1. Henry Cavill (hate me all you want lol) 2. Luke Evans 3. Michael Fassbender.

I love me some Idris, but I don’t think he should join this franchise...it’s not for anyone with ambitions to make quality work in films and television. He should do a film version of LUTHER.

I actually think Whishaw is taller than 175 cm he looks 177 cm

Luke Evans is gay and his leaked naked cam videos means he is out of the running.

R475 His co-star in "The Hour", Romola Garai, is listed as 5'9" and she towered over him

Whishaw is taller

Romola Garai: as a size 10 I'm too fat for Hollywood

Whishaw is very talented but he would be a miscast (and i doubt he'll be even interested). He is giving his best to the franchise making Q very charming

James Bond Should Be Gay

R480 - Oh come, now. That's a selected still photo from The Hour at an angle that favours BW who is walking ahead of her. I HAVE the DVD and have watched the series at least twice. She's bigger than he is, it's perfectly obvious when you see them together.

This list has most of the actors mentioned here, and a few more. My guess is likely the new Bond will be one of them, if Elba is not chosen for the role.

Question... will there be a call to boycott any new Bond/Bond film if Idris is passed over? Twitter has a lot of influence these days.

Yes Garai is bigger than whishaw in size (but not height) Whishaw is very thin and Garai is kinda big boned

Sorry but what's your point?

R485: It's a Bond film. Twitter has zero influence, the people who demand a black Bond are not exactly the real potential viewers and Elba is not such a big name to create a storm about this (and of course, they are not going to select the new Bond anytime soon, so who knows who will be the favourite by the time they make the decision)

r469, if Cavill is bearding, then who here has had him?

The next James Bond might be black, but he won’t be Idris Elba

Elba is already too old, but a black, Asian or female actor could succeed Daniel Craig

Just this quick reminder: James Bond is a fictional character

R490; True, but peope get really attached to their favourite fictional characters, and they had strong reactions about them.

Maybe now it's forgotten but Daniel Craig endured a very strong backlash with a lot of jokes about him (till the film was released and became a hit with critics and audiences)

R474, that is the hottest picture of former DL fave Colin Morgan (BBC Merlin) I've ever seen, so thanks. He is, in a way, a bit like Whishaw and a bit like Cumberbatch. Nicely done.

Not that I think he'd be a great bond, anymore maybe than his Merlin co-star bro Bradley James would, but both are still young, talented and capable. One Irish, one English, and both decent actors. At least one has an ass that photographs very well.

[quote]Maybe now it's forgotten but Daniel Craig endured a very strong backlash

Yes there was also a large backlash at the idea of Daniel Craig as Bond

Some 007 fans are mad as heck and they’re not going to take it anymore. Their target: new James Bond, Daniel Craig. They don’t like him.

“EON Productions angered fans around the world when they fired Pierce Brosnan at the height of his popularity as Bond,” says a statement on the new Web site craignotbond.com. “To add insult to injury, (007 series producing company) EON cast a short, blond, odd-looking Daniel Craig in the role of Bond.”

Claiming that EON did not want to pay for Brosnan or other high-profile actors Hugh Jackman and Clive Owen as replacements, the statement goes on to disparage: “Craig, described by The New York Times as having a ‘pale, flattened face and large, fleshy ears’ is a terrible choice for Bond. If EON Productions and Sony Pictures will not accept they’ve made a big mistake, then Bond fans promise to boycott Casino Royale!”

Neither EON nor representatives for Craig responded to the Associated Press’s call for comment. Shooting on Casino Royale, the latest entry in the Bond series, continues in the Czech Republic.

To be fair, Clive Owen would have made an amazing Bond.

Whoever Bond is, he needs an air of danger and sexiness.

No one ever posts any legitimate hookup stories about Cavill which leads me to think he's just another case of DL wishful thinking.

In my opinion, it would be nice to see a younger James bond, like someone in the early 30s to kickoff the new franchise.

R497 He bearded with that actress from Big Bang Theory

[quote]“To add insult to injury, (007 series producing company) EON cast a short, blond, odd-looking Daniel Craig in the role of Bond.”

And look how well it worked!

I didn't ask who he bearded with. I asked who he fucked. If you guys have nothing then it leads to believe he's actually fucking women, since thats all he's been linked 2.

OMG I'd love to see Mark Strong do Bond. But he is such a fine character actor , maybe not. He is hella fine, tho. Too old, too, i'm thinkin'

I never really believed the Henry bearding with Kaley Cuoco stuff. Why would she need him? She's is way more famous than he is, and she is far wealthier. If Cavill is gay, I'd say she didn't know, and simply went out with a dumb hot guy, which seems to be her type.

Anyway, I hope the next Bond film is up to par with Skyfall, because Spectre sucked. I blame Sam Smith's shitty song. It set the tone for a shitty movie.

R486 - Look, I've watched the show twice. When they're dancing together in that restaurant on his birthday, and standing next to each other in the elevator at Limegrove Studios, she is TALLER and BIGGER. But regardless, she overpowers him physically. No can do as Bond. End of.

R500 if he's bearding he's gay

R489 How in the world could THAT face be James Bond? Old, rough, unrefined.

OK... Daniel Craig's looks broke the mold too... but he did look smooth and sophisticated.

Yes, George Lazenby was so good-looking.

R497 - Exactly. Hence my preference for Turner or Norton or Hughes.

By now, Elba is a second-rate "known". He couldn't get The Dark Tower off the ground and it lost half its $113 million budget domestically and only barely made it back wth foreign box office - it only did $3 million in the UK where he's from, ffs. By the time he started filming he'd be 50 - I can just see the hashtags now: #metoo50where'smysexsymbolrole? from actresses. Why would the producers of hugely expensive films like these take a chance on a 50-year-old who hasn't opened one single solitary film successfully?!

Craig at least hadn't tried and failed to open a major film - he worked in television and indies like "Layer Cake" or "Love is the Devil" for which he won a Best British Performance award for, alongside veteran Derek Jacobi, or had secondary roles in major films like "Road to Perdition", in which he acted rings around veterans like Newman and Hanks. But he hadn't failed numerous times the way Elba has to open major films. Christ, Hemsworth can't do it either outside of Thor-Marvel, or he'd be on this list, too. Jesus, look at just the cover of the DVD for "Love is the Devil" and you can see why they picked Craig for Bond eventually (sorry I couldn't link the photo from Amazon).

And for the record, I think Yaphet Kotto was right about it being time for black actors to stop hankering after roles written by white men for white men. The film with any black actor will be so overloaded with political correctness that halfway through I'll probably want to throw things at the screen. I can barely tolerate them now and I LIKE Craig.

It's got to be someone younger, hot, and known but with promising horizons still before him - and still fresh in the can.

R505 - I passed Craig in New York City around about summer 2010, I think he'd just finished that piece of shit Cowboys and Aliens out west (remember that was post-Bond not pre-Bond), and let me tell you, broke the mold my arse, he was fantastic looking. First, he looked exactly as he did onscreen in those days, buff, trim body and you could tell in peak condition, with striking blue eyes - he radiated quiet intensity. Maybe 5'9" but who cares, in tan khakis and a dusty rose light Italian knit sweater with the sleeves pushed up. He was fucking hot and I'd have had him in a doorway immediately if I could.

Yes, his looks broke the mold, but not because he wasn't hot, because he was shorter and fair.

They HAD to break the mold - trying to find another Connery was hopeless, they had to take a different direction and they did and it worked.

Now they have to backtrack again.

For me what it is about Craig is that he looks intriguing. He looks like someone who could operate in the world of International espionage.

Idris Elba just doesn't.

R486 And Ben? Big bone....r?

R510 Garai is kinda big boned not Ben

R510 - Haven't seen it, but, believe me, I wouldn't quail at the thought of finding out. Sometimes those frail thin-chested boys surprise one.

Considering how fey Eddie Redmayne is, he looked quite nicely sizable in the glimpse we got in The Danish Girl.

R486

R510 ah! Lol

R512 Unless it was a body double.

It wasn't a body double

R514 - Happy to take your word for it.

Romola Garai is not big like Kate Winslet or Bellucci but she's not the typical skinny Hollywood

Craig in Road to Perdition

R516 - You're right, she's not bulky like Winslet, she's more in the mold of that fine figure of a woman, Maureen O'Hara. First glimpse of Garai in "The Hour" coming down the hall gives it all. If I weren't who I am, women who look like Garai and O'Hara would be on my short list.

Was Romola blacklisted by Wankenstein?

Craig has a bit of the prizefighter in his face, noticed that in Casino Royale. That's probably why he worked out so well as the thieving chav in "Love is the Devil".

Can anyone link to the cover of that DVD for Love is the Devil, I couldn't get it off Amazon.

Love Is the Devil: Study for a Portrait of Francis Bacon

Tom Hardy isn't tall enough.Crooked teeth.All the others have been 5'11" and above. He has a boxer's stance.Daniel Craig was James Bond's undoing.

Craig sort of reminds me of Putin.

Sigh - thank you R522 but wrong DVD cover. The one with him sitting on the edge of the bed in his socks lighting a cigarette.

R524 - Jesus, just don't tell Vlad that.

Olivia Colman should be the next James Bond

this one?

'I’d love to be M' Olivia Colman eyeing up James Bond role

M

R528 - ohhhhh yes that's the one - that's the one!

And they wonder why he got Bond.

R523 - Craig is 5'9" so no, all the others haven't been over 5'11".

Regardless of how we feel about Bond, I think we can all agree that a new M is needed. And it should be another female.

r523 you are moronic. That is all.

R534 - Second that. If Roger Moore wasn't Bond's undoing, 007 is indestructible.

Craig's entry saved the franchise from lethal staleness.

R533 I like your thinking.....

R533 - I doubt Fiennes is going to give up M without a fight.

R533 Oh really? We'll soon see about THAT.......

R527 - Right, let's see Coleman in her briefs and socks sitting on the edge of a bed lighting up and see how much of its astronomical budget her sex appeal brings in on the next Bond film.

"Spectre" cost $245 million to make, although rumour had it the budget went to $300 million. It grossed $880 million worldwide, leaving a profit of, oh, somewhere around $580 million.

This is from The TIMES on 8 August:

"Tom Whipple, Science Editor August 8 2018, 12:01am, The Times

"Hollywood pay gap: a male star adds 12% to box office receipts

The examples are many, and egregious. Mark Wahlberg, the highest-earning male actor, made £52 million last year, while Emma Stone, the highest-earning woman, made £20 million.

The ten highest paid actors earned three times what the ten highest paid actresses received. Jennifer Lawrence has spoken of her fury at learning “how much less I was being paid than the lucky people with dicks”.

What, though, if the Hollywood gender pay gap is a manifestation not of sexism, but the brute reality of economics?

A study has found that having a male star in your film adds 12 per cent to box office receipts. A female one, on the other hand, adds nothing."

Study was done by one Julieanne Treme, North Carolina State University.

Right - bring on Olivia Coleman.

R539 I'd rather wear a priceless crown and a nice pair of green Hunter wellington boots, to be honest. Oh look... so I am!

R539, Colman wants to be M, not Bond. And she'd be a better looking M than the previous ones.

Olivia Colman is very attractive IMO

r504, Thats my point. Wheres the proof that he's bearding. You guys seem to think "O, hot got guy,is a bit awkward with women" = must be gay. Just be one is extremely good looking and famous doesn't mean he is a smooth casanova. They're actors for christ sake. It just seems juvenile to insist one is gay with no proof to back it up.

from bodybuilding forum

Henry Cavill is gay. His on and off boyfriend is a man named Corey Spears. He has many gay friends and goes to gay clubs with them. When it was announced that he was being cast as superman he asked Corey to take down all the intimate photos he had of him getting kissed by him, or his hands wrapped around him.

Henry Cavill and his boyfriend Cody:

His relationship with women is entirely fake and mutual contract between him and the girl to give both exposure. Even his fangirls are realizing this.

"I'm side eyeing the fact that she released this on her website...AND the fact that she gave a newspaper and interview about her relationship with Henry right around the time he announced he got the role of Superman."

Well they are a handsome couple. Has their relationship survived all these years now on the downlow?

Jason Momoa is gay

Jason Momoa would make a great Bond villain.

assbender too

Some of these recent suggestiuons are silly.

And no non-Briton would care to watch a doco about fatty Hattie Jaques.

I heard this years ago. There have been a few actors I heard were openly gay in the UK and then when they make it to Hollywood they get the usual beard and obvious lesbian girlfriends.

David Gandy

^ bent nose, beady eyes.

What about a female? Jane Bond

Idris has the right vibe for 007 but he's a little old for the role

Idris is the only actor I can see legit playing Bond. But I feel like he might be getting too old to play the part.

As for Cavill, I think he's too much of a pretty boy. There's no edge to him.

I've been told that Fleming wrote a homosexual scene in the book 'Live and Let Die' when Bond and letter go to a night-club in Harlem.

Can this be true?

McAvoy

Alexander Skarsgard

^Skinny, sunken cheeks.

R553 - it's not a docu, you cunt, it's a fictionalised account of the breakup of a reasonably happy marriage, filled with graphic sex scenes featuring a stunningly hot Aidan Turner, and acting worth watching.

[QUOTE]I've been told that Fleming wrote a homosexual scene in the book 'Live and Let Die' when Bond and letter go to a night-club in Harlem. Can this be true?

All the more reason to cast Henry Cavill. The first bisexual Bond. He and Q can have sexual trysts. He could have a steamy love scene with a hot male villain from his past before they engage in the final battle. Henry would have a natural, believable chemistry with these other actors due to his deep-seated lust for cock and man sweat.

Tom Hiddleston

R564 Well I reckon it was a HIGHLY-fictionalised account of a marriage if it was made by the BBC PC femi-mavens. And I bet the actress wasn't half as fat as the original grotesquely-fat self-hating Hattie.

"The film with any black actor will be so overloaded with political correctness that halfway through I'll probably want to throw things at the screen."

You want to throw things at the screen when you see a black actor? Are you Donald Trump?

I will say this until I die. Any gay who is also racist is the most IRONIC person walking the globe.

Why can’t gays be racist?

Gillian Anderson

She’s Ametican.

Gillian Leigh Anderson, OBE (born August 9, 1968) is an American-British film, television and theatre actress, activist and writer.

Ethnicity: English, German, Irish

Christian Cooke

George MacKay

^ scruffy, immature

I don't know who I want as the next Bond, they all seems fine to me, all I want to see is Daniel Craig's Bond being killed off, and then replaced on screen by the next one, with the official "you're now 007 James Bond, congrats". That's would make sense, and we would finally know if there are 006, 005, what their name are, etc...

I don't get why people think Idirs is attractive. I mean everyone has their own taste, but there is like a socially recognized benchmark on conventional handsomeness and sorry, Idris just doesn't come close to it.

R568 - Are you really that poor in reading comprehension? I didn't say the "black actor" was the problem, I said what the writers and producers and directors would load the film with because it's the first black Bond. Did you think they'd pretend not to notice of that the audience wouldn't notice?

Have you really not noticed the straining present in these "firsts"? You know, the way they smothered "A Wrinkle in Time" with feminist self-esteem about the hair girl empowerment messages? Which the original was not about at all?

That's what they do: they take a classic and, unable to bear leaving it as it was, they twist it around to suit current sociological narratives.

I lived for a time in New Mexico, where I taught, and where the Santa Fe Opera, which is internationally renowned, is located. I still have friends there so went over for a visit. I'm driving along and I hear an advertisement for the company's current production of Puccini's "Madama Butterfly". And the announcer intones, "Come see Puccini's classic about [are you sitting down?] about a child bride who matures into a strong mother . . ."

I slammed on the brakes and nearly found myself in a ditch by the side of the road.

Because Puccini's "Madama Butterfly" isn't about anything of the kind. It was, firstly, based on a true story that the composer read, and it isn't about a child bride, it's about a teenaged geisha who marries an American naval officer in a ceremony that secretly he doesn't recognise; he goes back to naval duties, three years go by, she's had a baby son, and said douche bag reappears with his new "real" American wife, and asks to take the kid back with them to America to raise. Recognising that her shame will make life impossible for her in her home culture, poor Cio-Cio-San commits hara-kiri right there onstage, abandoning her child to the mercies of an unknown stepmother and the douchebag father.

But God FORBID the story, one of opera's most tragic and pathetic stories, should NOT be twisted around to represent the WOMAN AS STRONG.

Really - even Puccini can't be left alone to be as it is and what the composer intended.

I couldn't believe my ears.

That's the kind of thing I'm referring to. Now, are you going to accuse me of hating Italian composers or Japanese heroines?

Welcome to 2018 where there is no purpose to story telling unless it empowers the “weak”. It’s nauseating and repetitive. There is no room for humor, depth or realistic portraits of these ever expanding sanctified identity groups either. The more things gets politicized, the less diversity there is to story telling, be it video games, movies or TV. And it’s only getting worse. The formula must be followed, its social justice or else.

That post was meant for r580.

And no, I have no problem with a black Bond, as long as they don’t overly politicize it with cringeworthy pc nonsense.

Great post R580

Cooke is fetching but he would be a Sad Bond. He has a sad set to his face.

What about Edward Holcroft? He’s got the height and athletic build, not too pretty, but perhaps not enough “edge”.

Has anyone mentioned Jason Statham? Hey, at least he’s got the “edge” that Holcroft might be lacking.

You bitches are reading my mind. I watched the first episode of "Ordeal by Innocence" last night and found myself considering Cooke as Bond. He was convincing at playing aggressive, troubled and tough. And he's sexy but not too pretty. On the down side, he's shorter than Craig and arguably too young. He might be right for the next next Bond.

Statham is too old and too chavvy.

No way would Barbara Broccoli choose Statham.

"The more things gets politicized, the less diversity there is to story telling, be it video games, movies or TV. And it’s only getting worse. The formula must be followed, its social justice or else."

Only a freeper would say something like this. Acknowledging that black people exist isn't "politicizing" anything, except in your Trumpster brain. I find it funny that people would post shit like this on a gay board. Gays have benefited from "social justice" as much as anyone. if you want to watch freeper shit 24/7 just turn on Fox News.

Tom Hardy

Height: 5′ 9″

Cillian Murphy

Tilda Swinton

Tilda would make a great M replacement.

[quote]Only a freeper would say something like this. Acknowledging that black people exist isn't "politicizing" anything, except in your Trumpster brain. I find it funny that people would post shit like this on a gay board. Gays have benefited from "social justice" as much as anyone. if you want to watch freeper shit 24/7 just turn on Fox News.

You completely missunderstood my post. I have no problem with diversity, there is nothing better for story telling, the more the merrier. The problem arises when everyone has to walk on eggshells around it, then it destroys “diversity” of story telling - completely.

A recent e ample of this would be the uproar around the Netflix series Insatiable, where plus-sized people wanted it shut down and removed entirely because they didn’t like that the main character lost weight or something or other. It’s just ridiculous.

^example***

How does "acknowledging that black people exist" line up with changing an original story's line, characters, point of view, and destroying a dead artist's work for sociopolitical aims, etc.?

A Wrinkle in Time wasn't about self-esteem based on hair texture. It was about the problem of evil and was innovative for not quite fitting into either YA or Adult sci-fi, and for being one of the earliest to feature a female protagonist. Who was white. With a white family.

L'Engle, the author, was a strong Christian who was also deeply interested in science, and was particularly interested in the problem of how evil and faith and science inter-related, not unlike C.S. Lewis. Turning the story into a multi-kulti lecture about girls and self-esteem about their appearance destroyed the story's original concerns, cheapened it, and, in fact caused the film to flop. It barely made back its original budget.

Original artists deserve respect. Most of them have been dead too long to be protected by copyright. Their works became classics for a reason. Upending that reason is tantamount to destroying art for political purposes - just the way they did in Soviet Russia, where even the fucking ballet had to be seen to "support the revolution".

I'll quote Yaphet Kotto again: It's time for black actors to stop hankering after white roles written by white men for white men.

How is black actors playing white roles written about white people by white people "acknowledging that black people exist"?

I dislike Ralph Fiennes as M, he's a good actor but he adds nothing to the role. Why was Judi Dench dropped? I would like to see Olivia Coleman take over.

Matthias Schoenaerts would make a good Bond but as a non Brit, he'd be less acceptable than Idris Elba.

It's funny, I knew Craig would be perfect when they announced him. Could not understand the controversy, it was so obvious to me. I couldn't even say I liked his work because I didn't remember he was in Perdition. It's just seeing that photo of him coming out of the water and a bell went off. Perfect casting.

Great post by r597

My question is much simpler than r580 or r597 very apt posts.

If we have a black Bond, will Moneypenny be changed to Sharkeisha?

I took the liberty of making a new thread to continue our discussion:

In A Wrinkle in Time, Meg's teenaged self-esteem issues are one of the most notable things about the character. The theme of feeling like an outsider, contrasted with the perils of conformity, are developed throughout the book.

There were many, many things wrong with the movie but portraying Meg's struggle to develop self-confidence wasn't one of them.

R597 sounds like they are spouting talking points without having actually read the book.