Are gays who don't want to sleep or get into a relationship with a trans person

What's going to stop straight men now from saying "well, I have a dick too don't discriminate "

[quote]Thoughts?

I'm thinking how sad it is that people will still take the bait.

what bait? Trans is the most homophobic and child abusing group out there right now. I wish you could see that.

Trolling, trolling, trolling.

OP, that's like every gay guy.

Nope. Just because someone does not want to sleep with you does not make them transphobic. Any more than a straight guy I might have the hots for wont sleep with me because I am gay. Date other Trans, problem solved.

agreed r6 but of course we will be called transphobic

Didn’t we get enough of being shamed for our sexual attraction already?

R8, Exactly! I see a lot of bullying towards gay women now from these men in dresses. The ugliest creatures you ever seen.

[quote]Trolling, trolling, trolling.

They do it because it always works. DLers can't help themselves.

If someone doesn’t want to fuck someone of the opposite gender does that make them heterophobic?

Are people who don't decorate with chartreuse, chartreuse-phobic? Are people who don't enjoy the beach sandphobic? Are people who don't like nachos nachophobic? Or could it be we all have different tastes?

You (presumably) have started nearly this same thread 10 different times. You hate trans? Cool, don't sleep with them. You like trans? Cool, sleep with them.

Get a life OP

OP I don't think you realize how anti-persuasive you are on this issue. I have become MORE pro trans just because you people are unhinged and have no consideration for others. Despite multiple closed threads and people asking you to stop making more you do it anyway. There certainly don't seem to be any trans people pushing pro trans arguments 24/7 here.

Lots of BUTThurt trannies posting today. FU homophobes and women haters.

I met a tranny the other day in a group setting, when everyone went around to say their name SHE was the only want that insisted in pronouns and being call she/her. WTF. Cant you just tell us your name? You want to be treated equal but then you demand special treatment.

Why are R16, R6, and R4 all the same person - that's weird. You're obsessed?

Anyway, to R15 - I'm neither butthurt, nor a trans. But, you/op/others seem oddly desperate to keep this conversation going. What's the obsession?

R17 hatred almost never has ration to it. Best just to ignore

Ohhh, nevermind, now I get it - OP is the same person as 1/2 his replies. I'm just now learning how the ignore thing works in helping figure this out. Okay, moving on. Have fun talking to yourself, OP!

TO all the Trans lovers -Trans activists physically attacked gay women at a Dyke March in San Francisco in June of this year.

Also in San Francisco this year, Trans activists put on a display at the SF public library that featured a barb wire covered baseball bat which they hoped to use to beat any woman who didn't accept the Trans agenda.

Trans activists physically attacked a grandmother in London last year.

Wearing creepy V masks, Trans activists surrounded a journalist in the UK.

In California, nursing homes and long-term care facilities must allow Trans and non-binary "women" into facilities housing women, including elderly and disabled women.

In California, it is now a crime to misgender a Trans person.

"I met a tranny the other day in a group setting, when everyone went around to say their name SHE was the only want that insisted in pronouns and being call she/her. WTF. Cant you just tell us your name? You want to be treated equal but then you demand special treatment."

My favorite is "they" WTF? multiple personalities.. I avoid anyone who overemphasizes THEIR pronouns

R20 is blessed :)

I love the trans agenda

No dick, no deal.

No pussy, no deal

Do you all see? No reasoning with the troll. He's unhinged. The sad thing is he's probably mentally ill. Or may be experiencing some of emotional complex due to repressed gender identity issues he is going through himself.

Unhinged is someone who is encouraging gay children to cut off healthy body parts and stuff themselves with hormones that will make them unfuckable eunuchs.

R27, YES!!! And they are exploiting high functioning autistic kids to increase population. The T is for Takeover

[quote]The problem with both of these social stereotypes for the “too good” and “too bad” trans woman is that [bold]they both infer that a trans woman is really a man[/bold], which creates an impossible balancing act for trans women

Because they are, Blanche, they are. It’s impossible to change bio sex —everybody knows this, even the medical doctors helping the Ts “pass” with plastic surgery & fake hormones.

This article is an example of how “rapey” the Ts come across. They don’t get that they are deluded. They want all of us to be deluded with them. But we are not. Bio sex is real, gender identity is not.

When they do not disclose their bio sex to a lover, they rob that lover of consent. People consent to sleep with the sex they think their lover is. If their lover is in fact the opposite sex of what they thought, then the potential lover has been deceived.

So yeah if a straight man finds out he’s been tricked about his dick, don’t be shocked if he responds to non-consensual sexual with violence. There’s a reason why women fear men. Transwomen, I guess, don’t have that basic survival instinct. That’s the consequence of being deluded!

[quote]The transgender community is a massively diverse group with all kinds of body types, [bold]genital configurations, [/bold]personalities, hobbies, and relationship styles.

Now that’s just gross.

Ya might as well advocate that people who don’t fuck the unfuckable are bigots.

Good luck with that. I guess if you believe you can change sex, you’ll believe anything.

Why do the Trans have so much influence and power in the media? Why are they so revered ?

lmao the troll is quoting itself now. At least change devices

[quote]Trans women are women. Trans men are men. Non-binary people are whole and valid identities outside of our western colonialist sex and gender binary. Repeat this to yourself over and over. This is the root of all trans liberation.

Um, no... ^^^ this is brainwashing. T is a cult. This article is propaganda; grooming.

What's the the Pro-T trolls on this site?

[quote]How is my permanently attached strapon functionally any different than a cis woman’s detachable strapon?

1. It can be used to rape someone.

2. It can impregnate.

3. It’s ugly.

4. It can spread disease.

5. It can be masturbated in public restrooms.

6. It can be exposed to children.

If anyone of any sexual orientation or gender whatsoever do not want to have sex with me, it is CLEARLY transphobic discrimination on their part! Everyone is OBLIGED to have sex with me!

lmao the troll is quoting itself now. At least change devices

No, it's just that LGB from all demographics, political persuasion are waking up to the very destructive and fatal trans agenda

How many t's are in relationships/being intimate with other t's?

I've only met 2. Two bio females who identified as gay males and corrected me immediately when I said "hello, sisters".

I agree with you OP - anyone who thinks that lesbians not wanting to sleep with male people is 'transphobia' are not just homophobic they are rape culture supporting pieces of shit. This is rape culture, misogyny/male ownership of women's bodies and homophobia, all rolled into one.

In effect, people spouting this crap are not better than the right-wing loonies who think that women's bodies belong to men and seek to delegitimise same-sex desire, but I suppose it's all circular - the extreme left (if that's what they are) sometimes seem to be very close to the extreme right - not only in this, see also the refusal of some 'anarchist' groups to call the police on rapists and paedophiles because they don't believe in the police. I hope that the rest of us are sensible enough to see oppression for what it is and to take suffering seriously, those at either edge are just ideologues who don't really care about people, or are at least severely lacking in critical thinking skills.

Trans self absorption precludes them from understanding that other people don’t believe them when they say they are the opposite sex. It isn’t just a matter of lipstick or mastectomies, the ineffable qualities that are formed from socialization, hormones, expectations and the reality of biology are not something that can be learned along with how to apply mascara.

It is a logical impossibility for any man to say he feels like a woman or for any woman to say she feels like a man. Impossible because they have no experience of that. May as well say they feel like a bottlenose dolphin, they’re not one of them either.

How does someone quantify what being a man feels like? I can only know about my experience and my life but that is different from everyone else so again, it is impossible to say you feel like this or that sex because nobody can define what that “feels” like.

Demanding that other people owe you sex is rape behavior. I owe nothing to anyone and if they think that is transphobic they are not only wrong they are truly shamelessly promoting rape.

I've been asked this point blank by three trans activists on twitter trying to "educate" me, which is just code word for harass and intimidate me.

I've answered them what I'll answer here. I love dick and jizz, don't care about a plastic dick and yes I'm shallow and extremely phallocentric and I'm proud of it.

They blocked me after calling me a transphobe.

I don’t know, r34, but their M.O. is similar to the pro-Putin trolls. 🧐

There's a biological basis for transgender people. Its not a made up identity thing.

That said, you can only be attracted to who you find attractive.

Nobody is ever entitled to sex! All sex is a gift, it is not owed, and a lack of attraction may be inconvenient or heartbreaking but that doesn't give you the right to demand the use of someone else's body.

There is a simliar article about 16 dos and donts about gay men having sex with trans men in The Advocate. Im trying to understand...

The problem is that for a good proportion of the people who call themselves 'trans', it is a made up identity thing (R43). It used to be that there were transsexuals who had had surgery or who were at least committed to the idea of surgery (ie. 'pre-operative'), then the definition became more and more extended, and now there is no objective definition whatsoever - of being 'trans' or, by extension, of being a woman (or a man - but that is less of a problem since women who identify as men are not a threat to men on the basis of biology and socialisation).

Now there is no need for dysphoria or any medical intervention whatsoever (and to imply that there is is seen as oppressive), so this includes actual men who sometimes wear dresses and heels and sometimes suits and are named as one of the top 50 'females' (sic) in business ('Pippa Bunce' - look it up), fetishists who perform a pornified view of women as sexual degradation (because that's what they think women are), effeminate boys and butch girls who are being encouraged down this path, and straight men who identify as lesbians and try and coerce young lesbians into sexually pleasuring them on pain of being called 'bigot'.

The floodgates have well and truly opened and it's all happened so fast. And as someone upthread said, someone/s with some serious money is bankrolling this, or at least appears to be.

Funny, I blocked the so called troll and most of this tread is still here. Do the Ts just screech TROLL whenever their bullshit is called out?

[quote] Trans women are women. Trans men are men. Non-binary people are whole and valid identities outside of our western colonialist sex and gender binary.

I agree this sounds cultish

[quote]Repeat this to yourself over and over.

I ABSOLUTELY will not, brainwasher.

FUCK.

YOU.

[quote]There's a biological basis for transgender people

Please enlighten us, r43. What is the biological basis for gender identity?

There have been a few inconclusive studies of MRIs and brain scans that show anatomical differences between some trans people and non-trans. I myself am willing to allow the possibility that some transsexuals have a neurological difference, something in their brain that tells them "I am female" even if they have a dick and back hair. It's a possibility, but far from proven, and even if it was proven it wouldn't show that a transman is the same thing as a man or a transwoman is the same thing as a woman.

However, it's painfully obvious that most people calling themselves 'trans" do NOT have this neurological quirk, if it exists. They're femme boys and butch girls trying to cope with a society that tells them their core personality is all wrong, they're fetishists trying to live in the Vogue magazine or lesbian porno of their fantasies, they're students trying to be cool by calling themselves "non-binary", etc. There's no biological/neurological basis for any of that shit.

No. DUH.

It turns out I'm a penis fetishist (and no, there is no substitute).

How do trans activists answer this question:

What defines male vs. female? (since they dont' seem to think chromosomes or genitals do)

That's easy, r53: FEELINGS!

#50 is correct. There maybe people that geniunely feel like they were born in the wrong body but these individuals are rare. I don’t buy that it is as common as some people say it is. Most of these people are either gay or have other issues. It is not unusual for someone to have masculine and feminine traits. Just because a little boy likes dolls doesn’t mean he is transgender and just because a girl likes trucks doesn’t mean she’s a transgender.

R50 I don't have any animus towards trans people, however, I think the condition has become drastically "overdiagnosed " for lack of a better word. I am particularly wary of these trans mommies posting photos of Jayden to Kaylee's Transition. I think that most of them just have slightly effeminate or gay sons. The problem is that being gay isnt "special " anymore so having a trans kid is a way for stay at home moms to get attention and validation. My view is let adults do as they choose but don't interfere with children's hormonal development. It can only end in tears. In ten years the lawsuits will start to roll in. I guarantee it

There are only three pronouns I'll use for another human:

He

She

Fucker

Everyone, equally, gets to pick her/his/fucker's pronoun.

What did these little MtTs feel like when they first got their period? When they were told they couldn't play on the baseball team anymore? When their weird uncle had them sit on his lap and no one did anything when they were six? When someone talked to them and only stared at their breasts even though they were only thirteen at the time? When they had to walk past a bunch of teenage boys who yelled sexual things at them and started to follow them when they were 15? When they went to a college party and woke up in a fog without their underwear when they were 19? When they found out they were pregnant a few weeks later? When they had to go to that abortion clinic alone? When their mother died of breast cancer and they had to get tested to see if they carried that scary gene that would mean they'd have to have their breasts and ovaries removed or possibly die in their 30s from that same cancer? And on and on.

Being a woman is not putting on a dress, growing out your hair, putting on some makeup, and claiming it is so.

R14 Definitely. Reading some of the things these posters say about trans people has actually made me more sympathetic towards trans people (though I’m not entirely on board with the movement in every respect). And why are they always going on about protecting women and children? Since when has the DL ever given a fuck about them?

R59, because gay men are next in line after they're done with the women and children. The more intelligent gay men on here recognize that. You and R14 are obviously not among them.

R58 - a brilliant summary

The TERF gangs are at war with the TUMFs who don't attack gays and trans.

Yeah because it's that simple isn't it (R62)? - I'm guessing you're not a woman as you are more than happy to engage in the silencing of women and feminists. You're tripping over your own privilege.

What gets my goat is the lesbians who support trans and bash Terfs.

"In ten years the lawsuits will start to roll in."

It won't even be that long.

There is no such thing as "transphobic" because trans is not real. Humans can't transition.

In the UK , the transgestapo have a lot of power. They seek out butch lesbian kids and autistic kids. Can we say sterilization?

Wow, trolldaring R67 shows their obsession.

R59 how can you have sympathy for straight men claiming to be lesbians but not....kids???

Wow (R59) pretty blatant there. Not arguing against the threat to woman and children but literally saying you don't give a fuck. Well I'm on DL and I'm also a woman, and yes, I do give a fuck about other women and children. You realise that saying you don't care about women and children DOESN'T make for a convincing argument don't you?

It’s a war on women. Fuck off “not-lesbians with a penis.” Fuck you.

R68 fuck off back to 4chan, your tranny/MRA colors are showing through.

"WHAT ABOUT THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN?" has long been a right wing tactic to use against the LGBT community.

How about you try actually listening to women for once (R73), instead of listening to the pseudo-paternalistic of the right wing - you're getting yourself all confused.

A very money invested , top down organised civil rights cause if it had integrity wouldn't be acting all out of pocket because ONE portal on the internet allows women whose intelligence obviously grew with their education to discuss Transactivism vis a vis the rights of women and children. And this ONE place heavily moderates in favour of transactivists who are not shy of throwing twitter tantrums and stalking women.

And for those who give a damn about the ominous nature of transactivism vis a vis Autogynephiles who are the vast majority of trans, check out the profile of Jess Bradley who is on so many advisory boards pertaining to "trans assimilation in the UK. The name is JESS Bradley.

After doing your due diligence , I dare anybody to run and come tell me that transactivism is benign and all about Trans people. I've been telling the awake, not "woke" that Gay men, especially white are going to be the ones who will be finger pointed at for bringing this shit into fruition and NOT the straight men in drag who LGB sold itself out for. It is no coincidence that SjWism is a lot about white people who are trying to avoid being targeted allowing non whites a platform to speak their frustrations at whitey and not much else. But what is interseting to me as a black woman is that so many POC seem to need a hug from a white person and cannot conceive of themselves without whitey in their minds' eye. It's like Borderlines begging crumbs from narcissists and not realising that it is not they that control the narrative. I can't understand how this paradigm cannot be seen by POC SJW. I mean we should know by now that we "they'll "allow us to bangle wave where they can see us. It's insidiousness that they fear. As chairman Mao said about us "I like them , but they chat too much" ( paraphrasing).

I'd suggest for gay men to use their male privilege and stop being so self involved. Because if it all goes to shit, do you think that women, less naive then back in the day are going to stop flexing on behalf of themselves vis a vis transactivism and look back to help you? And I say "women" and not the blue and pink haired earnest flippergibbets who will not be anywhere to be found.

But one thing that this has shown me. Women of any orientation couldn't depend on Gay men for support if a disease came along that overly affected us through the mere act of having sex. Harsh, but true. I'd say that straight men by virtue of association would be more willing even if not for completely altruistic reasons.

As a black woman, I'm used to this paradigm. Black Women bangle and banner waving ( and being expected to) behind a cause that was/is really about "freedom "of black, straight men in the light of day. And woe betide should the women want something for themselves, just like with transgenderism vis a vis females ( I'm using that term to distinguish 'cos I will not use "Cis"). It does seem like civil rights is mostly about non straight white men, straight white men En Frock, and POC men having the right to be as fucked up as straight white men are allowed to be and get away with it. Integrity has gone down the pan and loudness and money grubbing is the in thing. Of course women and children will have to be thrown under the bus for this want. It's like kicking a three legged dog; too easy for those of the indolent or sociopathic mind frame.

R73 doesn't seem to mind right-wing homophobic tactics when it's gay conversion therapy. It's illegal but that doesn't stop certain transevangelicals like her, abusing and threatening young gays if they don't "work on their genital preferences". R73 isn't about human rights, she's about sexual entitlement, regressive sex role stereotypes, and using T as an excuse to be openly intolerant and hostile towards homosexuals.

It's funny how people like R14 think that we shoudn't react to and discuss articles such as the ones at the OP. Articles that basically tell us we have no right to be homosexual anymore. This agenda absolutely IS being pushed relentlessly on other parts of the internet and in society as a whole. The only reason there are a few gay and lesbian holdouts where you can still say your opinion without being censored, (although on DL you have to be quick about it before the thread gets deleted), is because we are vigilant in calling out this bullshit for what it is, and resist any attempts at normalization.

No gay guy would ever have sex with a trans person.

So, r73?

The right wing also opposed ERA on the basis that it would allow men in women’s restrooms (it would not).

Notice that the (very simple & non-threatening) ERA did not pass.

Sometimes conservatives & progressives agree on things. Protecting women & children is basic.

By claiming that LGBTQIA+ cares about protecting sex fetishists & perverts but not women & children benefits the right wingers.

Pedos also don’t care about women & children. Should they be part of LGBTQIA+ ? Why not? Because if YOU say that they are dangerous to children, then YOU AGREE WITH THE HOMOPHOBIC FAR RIGHT

Painful truths in r75.

MichFest = nobody stood up for the lesbians when they were under siege.

MichFest was the canary in the coal mine...the canary died.

This is our second plague in my lifetime. It’s a backlash. The Ts say we (gays) got our rights, and now it’s their turn.

But we (gays) are not out of the woods. Gay bashings are coming from within our own community...the lesbian who was ambushed leaving a gay bar in St. Louis (the Grey Fox Pub).

Nobody in the gay press said “boo” when Dana Rivers viciously slaughtered a lesbian household.

We are not out of the woods. We need advocacy groups. And we have none. And yes, the gay leaders, mostly male, who allowed this to happen will be blamed...deservedly.

But lesbians also co-signed our destruction. I will never forgive the Indigo Girls for turning their backs on the women who made them famous. Lesbians bought their records, concert tickets & merchandise. Not autogynphiles, who care nothing about women, children, the planet, animals, etc. The only thing they care about is accessing women’s spaces & breaking the cotton ceiling. 🤮

Yes I'm transphobic.

The thread about the MtT prisoner in England who got transferred to a female prison then raped four women got deleted. That is what we’re up against - if the narrative isn’t “brave & beautiful” then censor it. No truth allowed.

You aren’t required to have sex with anyone you aren’t attracted to. That’s all...

Some women don’t like dick, no matter whom it’s attached to. Likewise, some men don’t like vaginas. Sometimes it really does boil down to what genitalia the other person’s got. It’s not that difficult a concept to grasp, and yet here we are dragging indenting politics into it. Mess.

^Identity politics*

My faith is being restored due to most of these replies.

Thank you, R75. Can someone tell me how the T got attached the G&L movement?

Since we gays founded the HRC, and have dominated it for decades, it's time we accepted responsibility for what's happening to the lesbians.

[quote]In California, it is now a crime to misgender a Trans person.

r20, How is this even possible? Why is the government getting in the business of legislating speech that might hurt someone's feelings? Just because someone has gender dysphoria does not mean the rest of the world has to play along.

[quoteHow does someone quantify what being a man feels like? I can only know about my experience and my life but that is different from everyone else so again, it is impossible to say you feel like this or that sex because nobody can define what that “feels” like.

r40, such a great point. I want one trans advocate to please explain what it 'feels' like to be a woman or man, without mentioning any gender stereotypical behaviours.

A gay man dose not have to sleep with trans men, we lek dicks and balls and don't want to impregnate our partner and have bratty crotch droppings.

And what does GLAAD stand for again?

GLAAD = Genital Lopping and All Around Derangement

I do think it's pretty weird how you are attracted to a man and want to have sex with him and then he drops his pants and there is no dick and you run away screaming. What was your attraction then, a fake?

But then I'm bisexual. I don't really get being hang up on a partner's genitalia in general.

Well, I'm not going to be dating any trans persons, and I don't care if anyone has an opinion about it. I'm a gay man, and I'm only open to dating other gay men. Pretty simple, really.

R93, there is no man in your scenario. It's a woman. You might want to start there to figure out your answer as to why a gay man attracted to men wouldn't want to date or have sex with a woman. Also, it would show the person to be an absolute sneak and liar or completely mentally ill for not having mentioned this "one tiny thing" or, in your scenario, the absence of "one tiny thing".

And, one more point, R93...

If a man had an accident or got his dick blown off in the war, the gay man in your scenario wouldn't run away because he's still an actual man. There is more to being a man than having a dick but those things are also inherent to being biologically male. Something no woman has.

"[R73] doesn't seem to mind right-wing homophobic tactics when it's gay conversion therapy. It's illegal but that doesn't stop certain transevangelicals like her, abusing and threatening young gays if they don't "work on their genital preferences". [R73] isn't about human rights, she's about sexual entitlement, regressive sex role stereotypes, and using T as an excuse to be openly intolerant and hostile towards homosexuals."

Your "gay conversion therapy" accusation is hilariously off-base. Is it because you rape dolphins, you dolphin rapist, you? See, I can make bullshit too. Oh, BTW, in case you didn't realize it, dolphin rape is illegal. Because I'm guessing you probably don't know that. Not that you're raping dolphins or anything right now or anything but you should know it's illegal. You know, just in case you didn't know the legal aspect of it. Consequences and so forth.

"and using T as an excuse to be openly intolerant and hostile towards homosexuals.""

"What's your excuse for being intolerant of Ts?" one might ask. I'm guessing because we don't believe your bullshit that your penis and penis-loving makes you exempt from all criticism? So much so that you have to make crazy bullshit allegations when you privilege is questioned?

That's so very Trump. I'm guessing it's even more freaky when your dick is disappointing you and probably everyone you meet along the way that you flash it to.

Illegal also. Even if your President.

I'm a gay man, I'm only sexually attracted to other men, that's what that means. A woman who has her breasts removed and takes hormones to resemble a man does not transform her into a man. It's that simple really.

Maybe it's not an issue for bisexuals like r93, as they are attracted to both men and women.

If we gay people are so fucking ugly, useless, stupid and have to pretend to be good at things like straight people believe, then why would you want to fuck us? Why wouldn't you fuck a better quality straight person. They're normal humans and we're all retarded or handicapped.

This is why I'm so philosophically opposed to the modern Trans Activists - they are denying the existence of sexual orientation, they're trying to redefine it as "genital fetishism"! For this I spent my whole long life struggling to be treated like a human being and the equal of my peers, so people who are supposed to be under the same "rainbow/umbrella" can casually insult my sexuality because they find it personally inconvenient?

There are other reasons, but I'm so fucking sick of them calling anyone who won't fuck them "transphobic". The universal right to say "no" to sex is of profound importance, and to them an important human right is just an inconvenience.

Stop the destructive and evil T

There does seem to be a double standard at play when autogynephilia is the verboten fetish that must-not-be-named, but any gay/lesbian identified people are derided as vagina/penis fetishists if they assert a preference for same-SEX partners.

Homosexuality isn't a fetish, R102, and it's insulting to compare fetishes to inborn orientations.

You’re missing the point r103. Homosexuality is of course NOT a fetish but the trannies claim that if you are only same-sex attracted you are a genital fetishist because a man dressing up as a woman is therefore a woman (they claim) and lesbians better suck that cock and like it or else they are bigots, transphobes and genital fetishists.

[quote] Are gays who don't want to sleep or get into a relationship with a trans person, transphobic?

Only if me, a gay man, not wanting to sleep with a woman makes me a misogynist.

"There does seem to be a double standard at play when autogynephilia is the verboten fetish that must-not-be-named, but any gay/lesbian identified people are derided as vagina/penis fetishists if they assert a preference for same-SEX partners."

Meanwhile, the double standard you operate under is that a trans person must have "a good enough reason" to be trans but that same piece of ill logic doesn't apply to you.

I don't give a rat's ass if you don't want to have sex with a transperson. I think ultimately we all benefit when you don't want to have sex with any of us. It is WIN-WIN all the way around. Gay men are not a prize anymore than any man is. Or woman for that matter. Or the rest of us.

Obviously, this entire thread was a troll baiting excercise for the right wing to have us fight amongst ourselves while Trump and CO. destroy the world to their taste.

You're talking nonsense, r106. I didn't mention anything about reasons for transition being 'good enough' and that has no bearing on the reasons why I prefer partners of the same sex, so your talk of a double standard is baseless. My post was about the double-standard of crying 'transphobia!' every time autogynephilia is mentioned while deriding people as fetishists when they express a preference for partners of a particular sex. You don't have to worry about me wanting to have sex with you - I suspect you'd be a hectoring, joyless bore of a lay. I agree that noone is a prize anymore than anyone else, but neither does anyone have the right to demand the world be attracted to them. Deconstructing the current gender narrative is not the same as transphobia, but you're no doubt too dense to realise that.

" My post was about the double-standard of crying 'transphobia!' every time autogynephilia "

Well maybe you should think about WHY anyone makes an issue about autogynephilia in the first place. Because that is an argument many anti-trans people have made against allowing sexual re-alignment surgery. That it's autogyenphilia and that is just not a good enough for surgery, change and equality.

Which just goes to show you the whole argument that people should have no agency over their own bodies. That they're not allowed to live the way they want to live. That they shouldn't have any expectation of being protected by the state when they are raped or murdered or robbed or are turned into slaves. So my talk isn't basless just because you're intellect is too base to understand it.

" You don't have to worry about me wanting to have sex with you - I suspect you'd be a hectoring, joyless bore of a lay. I agree that noone is a prize anymore than anyone else, but neither does anyone have the right to demand the world be attracted to them. "

This is you projecting your bullshit onto me. Someone complains they're not getting laid and your worried they're blaming you for it? Isn't it really that you think your sexual pool is getting shallower and you're blaming us for it? We're not here to fuck you. But I guess you're much too narcissistic to realize that. But again, not only do you state that fear, you have to insult me as if I've rejected you. Because I guess you think everyone should submit to your desire in some way or another.

AGAIN, and I can't stress this enough. me being trans IS NOT ABOUT YOU.

" Deconstructing the current gender narrative is not the same as transphobia, but you're no doubt too dense to realise that."

Gee, man telling you that he's so much smarter than you and you're just too stupid to realize that. Wasn't believable the first time I heard it. Repetition hasn't made it true.

But you keep chanting that refrain like it some magic spell. We're just not buying it.

Your hyberbole is showing. Show me links where people have argued autogynephilia should disqualify people from being allowed to transition. Even Michael Bailey, trans public enemy number one, argued that AGP should be no impediment to transition. Where transition is motivated by a paraphilia, however, it is understandable that people may have some reservations about allowing such individuals into protected spaces for females. If it's to your benefit if noone wants to have sex with you, why are transactivists calling people bigots and terfs and transphobes when they're not falling over themselves to do so? It's transactivists blaming everyone else because they feel their sexual needs aren't being met. I'm big and ugly enough to manage my own sex life just fine - my comment was just a response to your statement that it's to your benefit if I don't want to have sex with you. I know your being trans is all about you, but other people are affected when, for instance, females are disadvantaged by male-bodied athletes being allowed into their protected categories, when cock-bearing transwomen assault females in women's prisons. A blind, headlong rush into full access to protected categories and spaces, based on unsubstantiated self-identification with no means of protecting against individuals who'd take advantage of such a system for nefarious purposes, comes at the expense of women's safety. To be honest, I absolutely agree that trans people have as much right as anyone to live a safe, fulfilled as anyone (I'll avoid the cliche of telling you how many trans people I'm friends with), but the rhetoric of far too many online transactivists is intellectually void and damaging to women, especially.

"Which just goes to show you the whole argument that people should have no agency over their own bodies."

Nobody cares what they do with their own bodies, dear R107, or their wardrobes.

It's their desire to have agency over other people's changing rooms, language, and genitals that's causing trouble.

"Where transition is motivated by a paraphilia, however, it is understandable that people may have some reservations about allowing such individuals into protected spaces for females."

WHY WON"T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE WOMEN!!!!

Really? That kind of concern trolling might fool you and people like you, but it's the same old right wing tactic used on gays, lesbians and the rest of our community. It's trying to sell that our mere existence is a threat to public safety.

Meanwhile, we're the ones getting killed by bigots.

No, the economically marginalised trans POC are the ones being killed, just like economically marginalised females of colour are killed every single fucking day. The white middle-class transactivists making all the noise online are just fine and free to demand access to lesbian bodies and paint their baseball bats pink. But way to dismiss the concerns of female athletes, students, domestic violence victims, etc.

"It's trying to sell that our mere existence is a threat to public safety. "

No, dear, they're trying to sell that your existence in certain places is a threat to public safety, such as women's changing rooms and prisons, and if you read the news you'll know that there have been instances of transwomen assaulting women in a place that is traditionally free of penises.

Which brings up the question - what is a greater threat to public safety, allowing penised transwomen into "women's" spaces, or forcing them to use men's facilities where they might be assaulted? Which is an interesting statistical question that no competent and impartial person seems ready to answer, but the fact is the more I read about these issues the less I believe the average autogynophile is at risk of being murdered by cismen. Most reports I hear about transwomen being assaulted or killed involve those who are sexually involved with cismen, and speaking of interesting statistical questions I'd like to know if "straight" transwomen or real women are more likely to be assaulted by men, and the same for prostitutes.

Except statistically trans are the LEAST likely to be killed r111.

Why would a gay man want to sleep with a penised person who dresses like a woman, or a person who dresses like a man, but is dong-free? When does the dick-hardening happen?

I remember thinking the “drop the T“ thing was ridiculous when I first heard about it..I’ve revised my opinion. The TRAs agenda is malignant and disturbingly coercive and a danger to the wide LGB movement and not least REAL gender dysphoric transexuals whom oppose these lunatic transactivists, and are attacked by them as well as entirely erased by the LGBT media. Right now actual feminist women are being hunted down by the police in Liverpool for posting cartoon penises whearas tranny exhibitionist flasher and pedo-fetishist Jess Bradley is not even being investigated by the police. And there’s a media black out on this prominent NUS official and key adviser on the Gender Recognition Act and its impac on the safety of vulnerable women and children. Truly Orwellian times.

Great post, r116

And here in the states...few people know that a straight man who identifies as a lesbian murdered a lesbian couple & their son.

Few. People. Know.

Had the killer not identified as T, it would have been classified as the hate crime is is. But, since he is a “lesbian” himself, the case considered a “domestic situation.”

(Btw, the man who killed the lesbians & their son, Dana Rivers, was a prominent T activist at MichFest. I think he even sneaked in. )

Those women befriended Dana Rivers. They accepted him as a lesbian. Look where it got them: dead & invisible.

If the gay community doesn’t grieve, much less *protect* our own, then what good are we? Alone. Without support and advocacy. No community. Erased.

r93 Erm you are very much assuming the genitals when finding someone sexually attractive, come on now. Why would anyone prefer to make out with boys over girls or the other way round otherwise? Even if you never get to see the genitals - the assumption makes it interesting.

R93 I am not interested in vaginas. It is sort of implicit in the words “homosexual man”. If someone is hiding a complete lack of cock then the interest wilts in two ways - firstly, I am not interested in vaginas, what with being a homosexual male and all; secondly, the person has overtly misrepresented themselves. Liars are not attractive to me.

Your disingenuous pretence that genitalia don’t matter is ridiculous.

R93 “But then I'm bisexual. I don't really get being hang up on a partner's genitalia in general.”

What bullshit nonsense-to imply the the former entails the later. There’s a term for your kind...the polite version being “Pansexual”.

I am a typical bisexual (bi=two, sexes) whom not untradinably expects to find everything in its right (biological) place..which is kinda the point in being attracted to both sexes for their OPPOSITE and complimentary sexual characteristics

^I meant “with”* rather than “for”.

Aghhh! Also: “not unreasonably* expects to find...”

gynandromorphophilia is the term to describe sexuality of men attracted to transwomen. Also MSTW (men who have sex with trans women). There’s a similar term for the opposite. It’s mostly a fetish

I happen to prefer brown eyes over blue. I have a type. I can’t help it. It’s how my body responds.

If I were attracted to someone with gorgeous brown eyes, and we hit it off, and proceeded to have sex, and the next morning he removes his contacts & his eye color is actually blue...honestly, yeah I would be disappointed. I would also feel tricked & deceived.

Yup....R123, just like voyeurism, exhibitionism, public masturbation, ...and cross-dressing.

All sex fetishes.

Allowing cross-dressing straight men in women’s restrooms — what could possibly go wrong?

gynemimetophilia: A paraphilia in which sexuoeroticism hinges on a partner who is a gynemimetic or sexually reassigned male-to-female transsexual.

A sexual attraction to trans women or to males who look and act like women (gynemimetics).

Nothing wrong with that. Honestly, I even get it. The contradiction might add to the excitement. And no one can say the love interest in The Crying Game wasn't sexy.

But to claim it doesn't matter what genitals happen to reveal themselves is nonsense.

Increasingly the trans movement is being itaken over by (formerly) cross dressing heterosexual males who now identify as MtF lesbians and are erotically motivated by autogynophila which is an erotic target location error similar to other paraphilliic target errors such as amputation fetish etc; they have all but completely displaced the non-AGP original true transexuals (HSTS) both politically and in terms of numbers. with the children and minority HSTS as colorful ‘progressive” decoration or human shields respectively. The TRAs are almost entirely privileged white AGP trans “lesbians” and the gay & lesbian orgs is where they parasitically achieved this coup

If genitals don't matter, as so many transactivists argue, then why the fuck are they getting theirs cut off?

Worlds first transgender referee

^Pro Soccer referee

.”She’d go through stages saying ‘I’m a man,” Avril says. “I’d come home and find all her things on a bonfire. But I knew she wasn’t gone. Little things would creep in – an ankle chain, nail varnish, new clothes.”

Classic purge behaviour of a FETISHIST crossdresser who sexually latches on to paraphilic EXTERNAL OBJECTS conflating them with an internal essential sense of woman-ness

True transsexuals (vilified as“truescum” by TRAs) are also being fucked over by LGBT orgs who allow their genuine and cruel mental disorder (no more pejorative or blameworthy than acknowledging an eating disorder is a mental disorder, or depression — from which I suffer) of dyspohria to be conflated with fetish-motivated cross-dressing HETEROSEXUAL males, and increasingly confused and capricious transtrander teens impacted by the social contagion of social media-powered identity politics

Healthline.com is now calling vaginas "front holes."

[quote]I do think it's pretty weird how you are attracted to a man and want to have sex with him and then he drops his pants and there is no dick and you run away screaming.

For most gay men, all is prelude to unwrapping that package. Dong is destination, and to pretend otherwise is somewhere between disingenuous and just plain cruel.

Of course, I can't speak for the so-called gay men who say "I don't care about cock." I don't begin to understand them. Maybe they can fuck fauxbois.

r134 No they are calling faux vaginas of MtF transsexuals front holes, while calling vaginas vaginas. It still is an ugly word.

Are gays who don't want to sleep or get into a relationship with a trans person transphobic?

The love interest in The Crying Game wasn't sexy.

No r136. They say FtT (i.e. XX biological women dressed up as men) have a front hole but the suppurating surgical wound of a MtT (biological XY men dressed as women) a vagina. Fucking crazy and off the charts misogynistic. In reality only XX women have vaginas, only XY men have penises. Anything else is dress up or cosmetic surgery.

The DL owner has an affinity for the T

R57. Yes! You must be my Fucker from another fucker

I've never heard a good justification for why girls should be exposed to dick in the women's changing room.

There's a running theme with some self-described transwomen of something psychotic and vile. In the UK a Green Party's transwoman's father was found out to be dressing up as a little girl before r*ping a 10 year old. The transwoman knew about the charges and still hired his father as a campaign manager using his address for the party. There's much more to the story and it's all insane. One implication for me is the Green Party's support for self Gender ID laws that would make it easier for this dad to get access to women's changing room. Which brings us back to this. Justify to me why girls should be exposed to dick in the women's changing room.

I was watching old "South Park" reruns in the middle of the night last week, and one episode dealt with the trans(cis male) self hating gay teacher who transed himself and ended up looking just like an ugly man in a woman's dress. In other words, it was an extremely realistic and in no ways idealized portrayal by the SP guys.

The episode dealt with hi/her trip back home to see his long estranged father...yadda yadda yadda...and ended up with him saying well, it's better to be an ugly woman that a pathetic fag." I immediately thought of the agenda for parents to transe their gay kids so they don't have to deal with the "shame" of having homosexual children.

I apologize for meandering off the point of this thread, but I just wanted the "woke" DL activists who know what's really up with the trans movement to know that it appears the questioning of the ethics is now entering the mainstream.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming. (sorry for the F word, but yes, they did use it on SP)

[quote]I said "hello, sisters".

Lol. I am picturing their expressions.

Like some other posters, our small number of unhinged T obsessed wimmin have made me MORE sympathetic to trans. I am sick of their 'won't SOMEONE please UNDERSTAND us' faux hand-wringing and obsessive posting of the same points over and over. and over.

1. They exist, and your frenzied online activities will not make them disappear

2. They don't want to fuck angry dykes who hate them. So you can relax.

3. Gay men can handle being propositioned. We know how to say 'no, thanks'. You do not need to come to datalounge screaming at us to be aware of the GRAVE DANGER we are in, at risk of the horror of some girl with socks down her skinny jeans trying to hook up with us. We can handle it, ladies.

Now please - kindly fuck off.

No, fuck YOU r145! Gay man here who is unapologetically #TeamGenderCritical (TERF) on this limited T issue. Fucking deal u brainwashed trannycucked prick

R175 Okay. So can you please give me a tutorial of how to get them to stop wanting to invade biological women's safe spaces such as changing room and shower facilities? Can you not understand that bio women, gay OR straight, do not wish to shower with a big hangin' dick right next to them? I could ALMOST get over the plain old restroom invading if that were the only integration requested by the menwomen. But as you know, be it rape shelters or homeless shelters all the way to locker rooms in high school, they want in anywhere women may be naked and vulnerable.

And now, they want to make it all but impossible for bio women to win track and field events be it a local high school meet all the way to the Olympic Games. And please do not claim that there's only a few of them. The number has grown 20 fold since the last Olympics and I doubt it's going to do anything but continue to rise.

Finally there is their desire to eradicate all terminology which applies to bio women. That is the fucking limit. After 55 years on this earth(as a very open minded person) I no longer have a vagina. I have a front hole now. You don't see any of this as insulting or problematic???

R147 It won’t have any answers because r145 is one of those critical-thinking-disabled loons who can’t address the issue with reasoned arguments, it just shrieks it’s misogyny over and over and over....

"They don't want to fuck angry dykes who hate them."

But apparently they do. Look up the term "cotton ceiling".

We need to reclaim/redefine TERF: Truth-embracing, reality-facing

We face and embrace the truth that men cannot become women (and vice versa).

Support of gender nonconformity is freedom for us all. Fear of questioning the trans ideology is the opposite.