"OMG! You'll love it there!" - Places people seem to adore that disappointed you.

Trieste, Italy

Luxembourg City, Luxembourg

Charleston, SC

Carmel CA

Looks like Disney World.

OP took a class at The Learning Annex on How To Be A Writer.

You should pay more attention in class.

New Orleans. Had a friend who adored it. I'll never follow her advice again. Maybe now I'm older I'd appreciate it better.

R3 never had to learn how to be queeny - it came naturally to her, as did her gayvoice.

Disney World. Looks like Carmel, CA.

Sydney Australia. This was 30 yrs ago, but it was like going to a flyover city in the states. Dull.

San Francisco. The weather is terrible, the locals are unfriendly, the prices of everything are sky-high, parking is worse than in Manhattan, the "wonderful" San Francisco cuisine is very mediocre and extremely overpriced, you WILL get a parking ticket, and the ubiquitous hills get to be a real pain in the ass in very short order. Other than that, I guess it's okay.

R5, it's never quite been my life's goal for people to think I'm queeny.

I doubt you've ever had a problem with people thinking you're a cunt.

Savannah GA. It literally stunk. What is that awful smell that permeates the place? Swamp gas? Paper mills? It absolutely reeked. Other than that it is tacky as hell.

s

Agree about SF. What a dump.

[quote]it's never quite been my life's goal for people to think I'm queeny.

Who said it was? You ARE queeny and you HAVE gayvoice. You write in gayvoice...and you sure as hell write queeny. What you are is clear.

[quote]I doubt you've ever had a problem with people thinking you're a cunt.

Mirror. Mirror.

Wales.

It's beautiful there, that's true, but the people smell and are horribly inhospitable and dull. And that's their good qualities.

Huh? Charleston, Savannah and NOLA are gorgeous. Visited in April, lovely in springtime.

Tend to agree about SF. My first time going to California, I first went to LA, drove up the coast with the trip ending in SF. I had expected to *hate* LA and *love* SF, since I'm not really into celebrity culture, don't enjoy having to drive everywhere (a European-born here) and, in theory, San Francisco ticked all the right boxes. I ended up loving LA and the reaction to SF being "It's OK but what's all the fuss about?"

[quote]Agree about SF. What a dump.

I was surprised how cold it was in summer. I had to wear a sweater in August. The place where they had the "summer of love".

Also, the cable cars, they were just tourist rides. Seemed to sum the place up.

The Grand Canyon

Miami. And I was surprised how tacky and low-rent South Beach was.

Try Scotland next time, R13. It's SO beautiful.

A very vivid memory from that trip: my partner and I are waiting in a long line in front of Tartine Bakery on a cold, foggy Sunday morning in August (at his insistence.) At one, point, I tell him: "I'm cold and standing in a line for bread - brings back memories of growing up in Eastern Europe."

Rehoboth Beach, Delaware.

South Beach was great in the 90s, until the gays moved to Fort Lauderdale

Rome. I wasn’t expecting to see Audrey Hepburn and Gregory Peck roaming around having their holiday but I also didn’t expect it to be so nasty. Crowds like I’ve never seen before, of course it’s the Eternal City so it isn’t a quiet backwater but still. Dirty, overpriced, you feel like a walking open wallet. Everyone price gouges, it’s squalid round the main sights, Roma pickpockets and beggars EVERYWHERE. I think I should have gone ten years before when it wasn’t overrun with Roma.

People told me how amazing Austin TX was. Liked Driskill's Hotel and the state Capitol, but the music strip was college bullshit and there was loads of traffic and ugly condos everywhere.

I once read someone say the beach in Miami was like a car park with sand poured over it.

Athens. Packs of wild dogs running in the streets. Filthy dirty. I do feel bad about the fires there, but it’s really a pit.

OP has to type fast before his tampon gets saturated.

I like Carmel, but I wouldn't travel any distance to see it. I had a summer job in Monterey when I was younger, and during my lunch hour I'd drive my old junker to Carmel and wander around. That's the way to see it, low-key and with no expectations. Just enjoy the moment of wandering around the twee buildings or the very pretty beach.

For places that disappointed me, I guess Rome. Yes, there was some fantastic stuff to see there, but it was hot and crowded and noisy, and there was loud dangerous traffic around all the outdoor antiquities, and horrendous crowds in the museums. And I got sick, that'll take the edge off your enjoyment of anything.

R26 - ITA about Athens. Outside of The Acropolis, Parthenon and dinner/drinks in Plaka (all of which you can do in 1 day) - it is a dump.

[quote]Rome. I wasn’t expecting to see Audrey Hepburn and Gregory Peck roaming around having their holiday but I also didn’t expect it to be so nasty. Crowds like I’ve never seen before, of course it’s the Eternal City so it isn’t a quiet backwater but still. Dirty, overpriced, you feel like a walking open wallet. Everyone price gouges, it’s squalid round the main sights, Roma pickpockets and beggars EVERYWHERE. I think I should have gone ten years before when it wasn’t overrun with Roma.

I hated it too.

I had been as a kiddie in the early 70s and it seemed very cool and buzzy then. Some of the atmosphere left from the movie industry still there. I went back in the 90s and the whole of the centre seemed to have been pedestrianised which had killed it and turned it into a tourist shithole.

Venice in early September. 9.5 trillion tourists clogging every single inch of the city. I fled to Verona which I enjoyed much more.

I mean yes, the architecture is truly something and one of a kind, but dear fucking god the crowds.

One of the best parts about being in a city is strolling around, and the amount of steep hills in SF messes with my flaneur-ing.

I rather liked Athens and I had been told it's horrible. I thought it was fun, lively and full of busy cafes and nightlife.

Bermuda. The beaches were so puny and the downtown area was boring as fuck.

Weho - honey, I'm gay, but I'm not desperate.

Ireland. The people aren't as nice as everyone says, it's wet and rainy, they don't have basic services, you can't buy over-the-counter drugs online, and it's expensive as hell.

Philadelphia. Olde City and the museum are the only places worthwhile. Unless you're in college or want a cheesesteak - skip it. City of brotherly love my ass.

I agree about Venice - after you go to St. Mark's and walk around for a couple of hours, it's rinse, lather, repeat. The same canals and gondolas. Yes - it's crazy unique. But I can't imagine spending more than a day there.

Getting lost and the crowds everywhere. Oh and Jamaica is one and never repeat experience.

Santa Fe owns this thread

San Antonio. The only tourist attraction is the Alamo which is boring as hell, the riverwalk isn't that great, and the traffic and heat is terrible. The people are generally ugly.

[quote]Weho - honey, I'm gay, but I'm not desperate.

Yes, it's not much is it?

[quote]Philadelphia. Olde City and the museum are the only places worthwhile. Unless you're in college or want a cheesesteak - skip it. City of brotherly love my ass.

It gave me the creeps for some reason. I gave it a second chance years later and the same. The people of PA in general seem very intense and miserable for some reason.

A Madonna concert. I left in the middle, I was so bored.

Whoever said you will love Rehoboth Beach must have been joking. It's fine but it is just a weekend place for us in the Mid Atlantic. Even we don't think it's all that great.

Cape Cod & Martha's Vineyard. I never made it to Ptown so perhaps it would have been a different experience. The rest was definitely not my scene.

Austin, Texas - It was a wonderful weird place 30 to 40 years ago, but it has grown into an overcrowded, polluted, traffic-clogged nightmare. So much of it is new that it looks like one big generic suburb.

I knew my brother was going to love every minute of his Maine vacation but he ended up hating it.

Vagina.

r45 agreed, I lived there for 20 years and left recently, it's turned into just another generic city. The weirdness is fading.

Another iteration of this thread

R44, Cape Cod is a lot of retirees now, and traffic. And God help you if it rains during your vacation.

I love the Vineyard though, and P-town is fun.

London - very M.C. Escher claustrophobic in the financial district and garbage everywhere. I didn't see people littering, but I also never saw anyone picking up trash. Just a give-up-on-life vibe.

Boston. It just felt very provincial and small and NO FUN.

I asked someone where was the equivalent of the East Village (which was still cool then) - somewhere a bit young and funky and they said a few blocks on Boylston Street and that's it. Cambridge was quite nice, otherwise it's very draggy.

Vegas, San Francisco, Cabo

Another vote for San Francisco. It's over rated and filthy.

[quote]London - very M.C. Escher claustrophobic in the financial district

Who wants to hang out there? It's just offices and The Stock Exchange.

[quote]Philadelphia. Olde City and the museum are the only places worthwhile. Unless you're in college or want a cheesesteak - skip it. City of brotherly love my ass.

How fucking DARE you.

Paris. I've sometimes loved it and others the rudeness of the people, even the waiters in those fucking cafes they have on every corner that all look the same and a general feeling of claustrophobia got to me.

San Francisco was a complete disappointment for all the reasons mentioned. Philadelphia I never had high hopes for, but it was disgusting nonetheless. Three days before the DNC Convention and I passed two piles of human shit between Reading Market and Independence Hall.

Another vote for SF here. I found it too hilly, oddly laid out, and pricy beyond belief, with a sketchy downtown. Boring. I loved LA though.

Someone told you Boylston St. was like the East Village? Oh dear.

[quote]Someone told you Boylston St. was like the East Village? Oh dear.

The far end away from the park had a few funky shops I seem to remember. That's what I think they meant.

Athens, Athens, Athens. Greece is beautiful but not Athens. See the Acropolis and any antiquity related sites, then leave.

Austin is in 2nd place. I don’t get the big deal. All the Texas cities are duds for tourists but only Austin gets hyped.

Cornwall, England. People go on and on about how magical and wonderful it is. The countryside is pretty but the towns were awful. Especially very touristy St. Ives.

Brooklyn. I really do not get the appeal. It seems barren and bland.

Dublin. I liked Trinity College and Francis Bacon Studio, but the rest was underwhelming and provincial but not in a quaint way. Thankfully, the countryside made up for it.

R15, I had a very similar reaction to LA. I expected to hate it but I ended up loving it (except the driving which is awful).

Northampton Mass. It felt lonesome and haunted to me, with lots of creepy folks squatting on the sidewalks.

[quote]All the Texas cities are duds for tourists but only Austin gets hyped.

I went to Houston in 1977 from England and we all thought it was so futuristic and cool. We stayed in some shopping mall with glass elevators and a ice-skating rink and multiplexes. Great shops. Great food. We'd never seen anything like it. Lots of new architecture. 41 years on I'm not sure I'd be so impressed. Much about America seemed cool and futuristic then to people from Europe, but especially Houston.

The thing about LA is that it doesn't take itself very seriously - everybody seems to be on the joke and are OK with fully embracing it. But, there is so much to it to recommend it: the weather, various communities which cater to everyone, no matter what their lifestyle is, the setting, well, everything except for the traffic.

Asheville, NC. Kind of a run of the mill college town. Nice, but no need to travel south for it. However, the mountainous regions in that part of the state are beautiful.

[quote] Ireland. The people aren't as nice as everyone says,

They started a reforestation program in Scotland and it’s worked pretty well. So they offered reforestation in Ireland and the people said no. They don’t want trees. That’s so fucking strange.

I totally agree about LA. I loved the look of it. Everyone says it's so ugly. But a lot of it is beautiful. The sun setting over the Hollywood Hills. Venice was fun.

But the traffic can fuck up everything. I gave up going to some places it was so bad and the drivers are tetchy, pause for a second and they honk at you. They're obviously fucked off with having to spend so much time in their cars. It made me feel tense. The car parks are often full. People manically searching for a place.

great thread. reliving all my disappointments and delights. thank you!

SAN DIEGO. I live here. Everyone loves it but me. Bland, boring, too many ugly tourists, and not the great weather of the hype.

Funny R71, my grandpa was originally from Ireland and when he came out to see where my parents were building their new house all he kept saying was, "Too many trees, too many trees"! Not sure what his aversion was all about; there was a small forest not far from the house he grew up in.

I didn't like the atmosphere of San Diego. I'd hate to live there.

1. Provincetown. All these bears I know go on and on about how wonderful it is. I've been there twice. If there weren't 5,000 fat hairy men with their dicks and asses ready for action, it would just be any boring New England fishing village. Oh yeah, and none of them ever go there any other time of year other than the weeks of the Bear events.

2. Capri. A pain to get to and insanely overpriced restaurants. So many other nicer places on the boot.

R72, I guess you just have to do what the Real Housewives do and take limos everywhere, and of course get drunk on the way to wherever it is you're going.

South Florida OWNS this thread.

Brit here again. So I see South Florida from a different perspective. I love it when the sun is shining. It seems to sparkle. But on gloomy days, oh, dear.

The trick to enjoying Provincetown is to go during off times. My partner and I went there during the week between Christas and New Year for two years in a row and rented a house on the beach. It was quiet and charming, mostly locals, some tourists but it was very pleasant and relaxing to walk on the beach with the dog, get into restaurants without reservations, and stroll along the main street.

Mass global overpopulation is ruining many locales. We need to start implementing some sterilization on breeders.

Sanctuary cities. Everyone says it's a great place to get away with rape and murder while avoiding ICE but I love the thrill of possibly getting caught.

Madrid was a snore.

Florence surprised me with how polluted it was - the sky was brown - and it was possibly the only place I've been where I began to feel unwell after spending time outdoors. Fascinating place, loved the museums, but also somehow sinister. This was in the late 90s, so maybe air quality has improved?

London was another shock. I fully expected to love it. It felt completely incoherent and dreary. The area around Mayfair was lovely but much of it was also incredibly ugly. The British should not do skyscrapers. I'd go again for the museums.

For the US, I have never understood the appeal of the Hamptons.

[quote]London was another shock. I fully expected to love it. It felt completely incoherent and dreary. The area around Mayfair was lovely but much of it was also incredibly ugly. The British should not do skyscrapers.

The beauty is sort of hidden. You have to go off the beaten track to the funny little villages. The hidden parks and squares. Always go round the back streets...most of the town doesn't even have skyscrapers.

The main commercial areas aren't very lovely at all.

[R73]: I entirely agree. I lived in San Diego for nearly 19 years, and watched it morph into a traffic-clogged gelatinous blob, full of entitled, pushy, self-centered bitches. And that’s just the men!

The beaches are overrated. The water is cold. (No wonder the surfers wear wetsuits!) The weather can be chill and grey for days. And the winters can be cold and raw.

The whole place is really a desert, dependent on irrigation. And let me tell you about the time, several years ago, when there were so many wildfires, the entire city was shrouded in smoky fog for nearly a week!

And they have great food, if you like Mexican. There are Mexican places everywhere. Not to mention that practically everything shuts down by 9 at night.

At least it never snowed. I saw that in Palm Springs. Twice, a few years apart. There’s another lackluster town, very full of itself, though why is anyone’s guess. Life there revolves around the pool, any pool.

I ended up moving to St. Petersburg, Florida. Has a lot of the funky charm I used to love about San Diego and Austin, and, yes, even San Francisco. It’s unpretentious and beguiling, with beautiful pocket parks everywhere. Not ideal, but is any place ideal? But very endearing.

Costa Rica. The guesthouse where I stayed in the capital was overpriced, the food was bland. Beaches were nice once I got to the coast but again, the food was not very interesting.

[quote]Life there revolves around the pool, any pool.

LOL. great line.

OK so the only place wirth visiting is Los Angeles?

How can anyone not like San Francisco? I've literally been everywhere, and SF is still the most interesting city in the world. Have you ever seen Tales of the City? That's what it's like in real life. Gorgeous setting and anything is possible. The things that happened to me in that city, all unplanned, would curl your toes. I still can't believe it.

Austin was a magical place in the 1980s. It still felt like a small town and the hippy vibe was alive and well. The nude Hippie Hollow on Lake Travis was unbelievable. The stuff that happened at that place with gorgeous naked men you wouldn't believe.

The city I was most disappointed in was Boston. I found it drab, unfriendly and boring. I've never gone back except to catch a plane or ferry to Provincetown.

I found the entire French Riviera to be underwhelming. It's too fancy and pretentious for my tastes. When I'm at the beach, I want to be casual and comfortable, not feeling like I need to dress up and put on airs.

I’d recommend St. Pete.

Maybe not longterm, but a few days might be diverting and restful.

It’s sure not as superficial as what a friend refers to as Ft. Bottomdale, which seems to make plastic effervescent.

Garden of the Gods

Boston is like Scranton with clams.

I always found Boston very attractive architecturally.

I found San Francisco pretty unappealing. It probably was once like "Tales of the City," but absolutely it is not like that now--Mary Ann and Mouse and Brian absolutely couldn't afford it today. It seems now like a city for multi-millionaires to live in and for homeless people to sleep and shit in the streets.

Pittsburgh. People who live there compare it to Paris. I've heard people say the food is on par with NYC and that It has so much to offer in terms of culture.

It's a shithole. The city smells, it's dirty and the most of the buildings are falling apart. They have a few cultural offerings but nothing unique and the food sucks (they fry everything and then serve it up with a side of ranch).

I've got a real love/hate relationship with Los Angeles. I actually like the revitalized downtown area, which is really cool and has fun bars and restaurant. I don't like West Hollywood (terrible, cliquey, overpriced bars) or Venice Beach, and I hate that the city is like the 3rd world: millionaires live in gated communities on hills and poor people are locked out below, with the middle class living far away in the distant suburbs. And I don;t like it if you win up hanging out with people in the entertainment industry, who are obsessed with their tiny world and the power brokers in it. I have friends in the film and TV industry and I am always stupefied when they treat moguls or actors like they're royalty.

But one thing I love about LA is that it's so large you CAN find a community there if you just search enough. I know people who, against all stereotypes, love novels and discussing current events and high culture.

Venice is probably the only overhyped place I've visited. Maybe July isn't the best time to visit, but I was surprised I didn't really like any part of Italy. Outside of the overcrowded, sweltering cities, the landscape was boring rolling shades of brown.

ALL of Florida

Vegas. What a shithole.

Burning Man owns this thread.

Agree, R39. Santa Fe owns this thread. Waaaaay over hyped. There is no there there. Every shop is the exact same.

Also don't like San Francisco at all. Did really like Athens, Venice, and Florence though. Greece and northern Italy were both great.

Well, I'm going to post something that is completely counter-intuitive (and I apologize to OP). I've shared this on DL before. My ex told me about a wonderful vacation he had spent in Southeastern Ohio (Appalachia) with some friends, in a rented cabin, and told me I would love it. He eventually told me that he had booked a couple of ticktets for a cabin, for us to share. I was actually horrified, and was worried that he might be treated badly. He's black, and I was very worried about how peoplle would react, since rural Ohio isn't what what you'd call a welcoming place.

The reality was completely different. The cashiers at the Kroger's asked us where where were from, and told us to come back soon, when we answered. We were obviously, a gay, interracial couple as we hiked the trail, but we never encountered a single rolled eye. Everyone was kind to us. I went there expecting hostlity and prejudice, but didn't. It exposed my own prejucide. I'm not proud, of course, but I needed to know that.

R97 The good thing about LA is that you can find your own niche. The sky is beautiful tonight and nice and cool.

The bad thing is like the huge fight I had with Ali McGraw. We were both going to Chutneys on Barrington (nasty little mall) and there were two big empty spots. We were both waiting and I didn’t notice her SUV from hell. So I went into one spot because I wasn’t stealing her spot or anything. Well, she started berating me loudly and I kept saying “but there were two spots”, and she kept saying I should have let her go first despite the traffic moving on my end first. Very peremptorily “you saw me waiting” and you shouldn’t have gone first”! “That’s very rude !” Etc. Etc.

She wouldn’t shut up and then I recognized her. I’m a very light skinned foreigner girl but since I couldn’t figure out what made her think she could scold me in public over nothing, I said “are you racist or something? Why should I wait for you when there were two spots”? She says “what’s race got to do with it”? Then I remembered reading that she had been in a rehab recently and it all made sense. I’m a psychiatrist but I did not want to insult her so I said “ are you even supposed to be driving?”, in a very serious tone. And actually, she shouldn’t have been driving ; she had some restriction put on her..So she just shut up and ate her food. Did not even look at me again. I have never been yelled at like that. By anyone..Geez that was strange. I had read about her temper problem too. Celebrity culture, yuck!

But the beautiful weather makes up for occasional nastiness. I don’t know why I thought Bourdain should have been here watching the lights and planes taking off and landing. It’s sad that nothing made him happy. And I love having food delivered by Eat 24, and Uber takes me places. And something about LA promotes eccentricity and I love how everybody is so different here. I was born in London but I can’t stand their new atmosphere with veiled Muslim women which is a huge pet peeve of mine. I’m Muslim so I guess I’m allowed to hate that bs. I think everyone should hate it.

Went to Nashville to see the eclipse with my puppy and everyone was so nice. But I avoided the club/drunk area. MANY MANY new buildings. Lots of people moving there.

Oh and Jamaica! The ride from the airport is so depressing seeing these many, many poor people and poor kids that by the time you reach your “resort”, you’re not even in a happy mood. Will be going to Pakistan in December. I hope I come back in one piece. Drove from New York to LA on Rte 66. That is a ride everybody should do once. This is a great thread.

^^^I talk way too much. sorry.

Vegas is disgusting

I almost had a panic attack looking at the fake sky in “Venice” with little gondolas. The shows are fun but that’s it. And I refuse to stand in 2 hr lines for food. And the constant ding ding of the slot machines. They were even at the airport! Las Vegas, blech!!!

R104, Route 66 begins in Chicago and ends in Los Angeles. Doesn’t begin in New York.

R108-I know.

The trick with Venice is to go in November

It's weird to me that people assume that because they once loved a place forty years ago that everyone else should automatically love it the same way today.

San Francisco in 1975 is not the same place as San Francisco is in 2018, for example.

R87 - Costa Rican here - When we tire of beans and rice, we switch to rice and beans.

The truth is that there very very few places which are as nice as they were 10 years ago. Or 20! It's like someone offstage has released giant pens of people. Most major cities, like London, were creaking at the seams even in the 90s, but now! Dear God. The entire world has become a rat run.

I went to Venice on December. It was great not dealing with the crowds. Also, it was cold but sunny. I took day trips to Verona and Padua. Verone is so picturesque, and Padua has one of the world's oldest universities.

Population explosion. Already there are too many refugees. Running from or to somewhere. I wish the spread of wealth was more equitable. Even I can talk big but am not ready to lower my lifestyle to help the worlds’ poor countries. I’m sure I’ll be dead by then but I hope I stay alive to see some balance in the world.

R113 This is why I’m not to keen to get on a flying bus to go to some crazy European bazaar, being mistreated all the way and picking up stomach bugs. Or an Eastern bazaar for more of the same.

[quote]but I was surprised I didn't really like any part of Italy. Outside of the overcrowded, sweltering cities, the landscape was boring rolling shades of brown.

I remember thinking it's so repetitive... yet another dusty little town with one church and one cafe with a table and a few plastic chairs on the street in front. Gurl, NO!

I'd like to go to the very south and Sicily.

But I feel very FOREIGN in Italy. France I feel very at home. BUT France has lost a lot of its Frenchness due to its over-enthusiasm for the EU blandness.

[quote]This is why I’m not to keen to get on a flying bus to go to some crazy European bazaar,

But if you are an American, depending exactly where in Europe you go, it may give you an opportunity to experience a higher standard of living.

There's several areas of France and Italy, for example, where the poorest peasant eats better, is educated better, is cared for by the state better, and lives more stress free, than not just the average working class American, but the average middle class American.

Barbra back in Brooklyn. Left in the middle.

R116- I hope this is not some sign of aging. A church, a cafe and frozen food even in France. Over and over again. And I used to love the Caribbean. Now the little islands are getting overdeveloped, like Grenada. My mother grew up in Bombay and loved it but warned me back in 1995 not to go there because of the crowds and dirt and people shitting openly. Then she died and I’m supposed to keep the family connections going. How? I hate traveling in business class, can’t afford first class of course. You’d have to drug me with ketamine so I sleep the entire 57 hours to Bombay. OMG! I think I just predicted future travel.

R117-where are these utopias?

and another thing about France. The food. There were certain types of places where you could more or less rely on for serving good and tasty food. The town brasserie for instance. No more. The food has declined tremendously. We discovered this again and again.

And even many of those fabulous looking delicatessens you pass on the street in France - they now prepare a lot of that stuff in some central kitchen and it tastes like shit.

I travel as often as I can, and sometimes pick places just for the bragging rights (hello, Bhutan) but my favourite spot is still the very touristy Venice. I found the whole place magical. I was there in September, and it was quite busy but I had terrible jetlag and was up early well before the crowds and loved strolling around the deserted alleyways. Went well off the beaten track of back to the hotel for a nap during the super busy hours. But I could imagine it being pretty awful in stifling heat.

San Francisco was well worth a visit, but I didn't love it like I thought I would. I feel the same about Ireland - I enjoyed it, but didn't love it like I expected.

I can't think of anywhere I've been that I expected to love but absolutely hated it. Most places have their plus points. But there have a been a stack of places I thought I wouldn't like but really enjoyed.

I have been to LaRochelle twice, found it beautiful, sorry OP

I'm glad I got to travel extensively in the 80's and 90's. (mostly business with lots of side trips). Now I say close to home. I don't think I could bear having all my amazing memories tainted.

R124 - Stay home, gurl.

Berlin- OK, flame away, but I find it very disappointing. There are some wonderful museums and KaDeWe is one of the most exclusive department stores I have ever seen, but otherwise the city is meh. The fact that the Western Zone existed solely as a FU to the Soviets still colors the city. It used to be the Paris of the North. Now it is more like Washington, DC. I suppose if one is interested in sex clubs and nightclubbing, there is more appeal.

In the US there were a lot of places that seemed like this to me: Martha's Vineyard, Cape Cod, Boston, LA, SF (although it also has nice sides to it, especially the bay and geographic position), Seattle, Florida, and a bunch more.

In Europe I was disappointed by: Venice (pretty, but disney-like), Budapest (fairly pretty, but unpleasant people and atmosphere), most of Switzerland (deadly boring, expensive, and stiff unpleasant people), Oslo, Stockholm and Copenhagen (they are not all equally bad, but they're fairly boring and overpriced, and not particularly beautiful), and Manchester and Glasgow (basically dumps), and partly London.

On the other hand, there were some places mentioned by previous posters that I really love. Rome, Florence, and Capri, for example.

I think lots of tourists make 2 basic mistakes that contributes to them finding a place less lovely than it really is:

1. In general, don't go to European touristic cities like Rome from mid-June to mid September! You are going to be overwhelmed by masses of tourists and heat. These places are 10 times more pleasant in May or October.

2. Don't stick to just a few small most famous and obvious areas. Most tourists are sheep and concentrate only in these few streets. For example, I was in Florence in early June 2 years ago. Within a 5-10 minute walk radius of the cathedral and the Piazza della Signoria till Ponte Vecchio it was like a zoo! Full of masses of tourists, you could barely walk. Once you went beyond that radius you found yourself in the company of locals and a very few tourists here and there. Prices dropped in restaurants and shops and you could easily find authentic affordable food and products. You might think I am talking about uninteresting suburbs.But, no, these were still central areas, full of beautiful palaces, interesting shops, and lots of churches with famous frescos, and various attractions. It was just a short walk away from the TOP 5 attractions area. Don't behave like sheep and you won't get slaughtered...

I agree with r23 about Rome. It was ok but not "OMG You'll love it there!" I had a fun time with some things I didn't expect like this food tour in Trastevere & a few of the restaurants were incredible just for lunch. I can still remember what I ordered years ago (had to do a lot of research beforehand though). We went in October & it was very nice weather and (I assume) less crowded than the summer, but it was still packed.

There were a handful of bizarre scam-ish incidents with people begging for money, "accidentally" bumping into me to grab my wallet (thank you money belt), trying to sell sparkly things on the Spanish steps when someone else comes up behind you steal your shit, and no prices on the menu unless you forced them to write them out....etc... but most of this is known. It's just annoying to have to dodge it all week. At the train station, we literally zip-tied our bags and straddled them when we were waiting for the train (Termini is very bad for theft). There were 2 people who kept circling around looking & looking for something to steal - clearly not waiting for a train. One even came up to us and asked us if we needed "help finding our train". By then, we learned to yell "NEIN!" at them. Apparently the scam artists more afraid of Germans than Americans.

Oh and some cunt kept chasing me with some weird knock of bag he wanted me to buy and I lost my shit & almost got into a physical fight with him (jet lag had set in). So, yea that wasn't fun.

Fire Island, boring and full of 50 year old circuit queens who still think they can pass themselves off as 30. Everyone seemed to be addicted to drugs or alcohol because its so boring there.

[quote]By then, we learned to yell "NEIN!" at them.

Oh that's a good non-PC tip one wouldn't read in the guide books! DL can still deliver.

NYC is really shitty these days. Been there about a dozen times over the last 20 years. Once you have hit the basic tourist attractions the rest of the city is so over rated. Food quality has gone way down, people are rude, streets are dirty, same stores you see at every generic mall. Overcrowded, overpriced and dull.

And no, they dont have the hottest guys around. You would think with all the talk on the DL that would have been the saving grace but I saw maybe 2 or 3 guys the whole time I was there that I though were good looking.

[quote]One even came up to us and asked us if we needed "help finding our train".

OMG. I remember walking off the boat in Ischia (less posh island next to Capri) and this older man asking me if I wanted to find somewhere to stay. Anyway, I was perched on the back of his scooter and we rode into the hills above the town, with me thinking above the noise of the scooter "You in danger, gurl" and "What the fuck have I done?"

He took me to the most adorable little pensione. Dinner and breakfast included. They served us the most delicious figs I've ever eaten from the garden. Next to this pensione was a pathway up a hill to an ancient church, walk a little further and down the path to an adorable secret beach with a cafe and bubbling spring. My whole week in Italy was like that. It was charmed...and when I rented a moped and traveled along the Amalfi coast I wanted to scream at the beauty (see pic) I had no idea. I just looked at the map and thought - I'll go along there and spend the night in Amalfi.

and when I got to Amalfi, it looked like this.

I wouldn't go back to Cairo for free on a first-class ticket....

And I'd been going to SF regularly since about '95, have had very little interest over the last few years. I agree w. the shedloads of people who've said Googlers et al have utterly fucked the place with their rapacious, self-absorbed greed -- and I'm fine in places that are not impeccable, but the homelessness and all that go with it are ridiculous and horrible. Absolutely, my heart goes out to those people. They need help and the city needs for them to get help.

I'd never traveled on my own before...so I was a bit apprehensive. I had gone to London and everyone was away so I thought I'll go to Italy. I had a good friend in NYC who was always going on about it. "OMG! You'll love it there!" - Sure did.

Tried to do it again a few years later and it was a total dud of a trip. You can't repeat these things.

^^ I have had similar good & awful trips to NYC. It's bizarre. Some of them have been so fun, I don't want to leave - and other times I just go to the airport 5 hours early to get the hell out. It's kind of related to what my friends are doing and strange fights about where to eat and where to go... but even without that, there will be one trip where I'll get amazing tickets to something at TKTS, pick really good restaurants & get in, meet fun people -- and then another where my hotel will smell bad & be noisy, I'll have a 2 hour wait for dinner because my reservation got lost, I'll take the wrong train and have to spend hours getting back, and people who I arranged to see weeks in advance have to cancel because their kids got a cold or whatever. It's an odd thing. It's like all or nothing.

Very true, R136. You can have a very different experience anywhere depending on what you do, where you go and who you're with. Even doing a trip first class vs on the cheap makes a big difference. You see a very different side of Rome, Paris, Venice if you're on a first class trip with a personal driver/guide who can get you into everything without a hassle, take you to out of the way places and non-tourist restaurants, etc.

R134 what happened in Cairo?

R10 The Mead paper mill is the source of the stink.

It is so bad that you begin to smell it about one minute before landing in SAV. People who have never experience that look around for the culprit who broke wind.

R20 " the coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco"

My asshole

Everyone here is just jaded from being well- traveled gays

I'm a typical America loving Brit - but it's true there are a lot of cities and places in the USA that are sort of weird and spooky, bad vibes. Strange. Even the places that are supposed to be nice. San Diego. New Orleans. SF. Philadelphia. Tucson (oh, dear) - you'll LOVE the desert! I thought the desert there was shitty and very unimpressive. We stayed on a famous and expensive "dude ranch" - what a shitthole and the food was so bad we kept escaping into Tucson to eat, where it was even worse.

I once visited a friend in Mississippi and used to count the days until I left.

The places people tell you are shitholes are often the best. Los Angeles. New York. Miami.

I agree with R127. Whenever I went abroad it was for work or a conference so generally outside the tourist season and I didn't bother with the usual tourist attractions. I had a great time just taking in the local culture.

Mass tourism is eroding the unique character of many places now, it's inevitable.

How did this thread get this far and no one has mentioned Orlando?

The mouse is one thing, love it or leave it (and save hundreds of dollars, Euros, or yen if you don’t go) but Orlando wins any shithole city contest in the States. Orange Blossom Trail is a linear slum, and dangerous, too. Depending on where you are, it’s a “who’s tackier?” contest between the locals and the visitors.

Jamaica. We walked from the pier when the ship stopped at Ochos Rios. Jamaican troops lined the streets to protect us from the Jamaicans who offered us, among other things, stolen cell phones, a goat, a 14 year old girl, and weed. Never again.

Moscow. It’s not right to gloat at our former rivals. You’ll do it, though. Constant smell of piss, cheap tobacco, vomit, sweat, and cheaper disinfectant. And that’s in the nice places. I always wondered what the US was worried about - these people couldn’t be sure they’d get a dial tone when they picked up the phone.

Rio. Slummy slum slum and murderously dangerous, too. Hospitals with open windows and no screens. Open sewers, criminal gangs; nothing to write home about the food or people, either.

Caracas. It’s hell now, but even when it was the wealthiest place in South America it was dirty and ill-kept for the capital of a wealthy Petro-state. Rude rich people, too.

Santiago de Chile. The travel agent was right: three nights was two too many. And she was Chilean. Not awful, just “not much.” Awful pollution and traffic, though.

I always wanted to go to Cairo for the pyramids. Please tell me it doesn’t disappoint too.

Atlanta. "Everyone is moving there!" "There's so much to do!" I was in town for business for a few days. Boring shithole.

Most of America is boring except for Manhattan

I loved the pyramids in 1979. Even then, the mummy in the museum was dusty and dirty. I wanted to wipe it off. People and kids chasing you to buy scarabs. Food ok. Hotel kind of old and colonial with high ceilings and fans. Saw a terrible belly dance with others in a tent and food. Alexandria was nice, near the sea, lovely,kind of medieval but again, 1979. Went to meet my fathers’ merchant ship but did not find him or the stupid ship. Got to ride a camel. The pyramids are 5 ft away from dirty bazaar, roads and market. You will be confused at the poor Sphinx living in fumes.

Of course the pyramids were amazing. Pay a little extra cash to your guide and you can get a picture inside the pyramids which is verboten. After you do all this, run to your plane and fly away. Remember again, it was 1979, I was 19. Imagine the chaos now. I would get a tour so the guide will insulate you from the kids running after you trying to give you scarabs and every fucking person asking for Baksheesh, the mummies were so neglected. It was sad to see. Maybe it’s better now. Very cold in the pyramids and amazing being inside. You must see them though. Great street cred.

Cairo is in competition with Mexico City for the worst air pollution. Dirty, grimy, non-descript architecture, full of huge, seething population with no place to go.

The pyramids are fascinating. But the main museum is an antiquated relic, with old glass cases and descriptions handwritten in French! (Apparently, they are constructing a massive new museum near the pyramids, which will be modern, and display far more artifacts. But that will take years.)

Mexico City, though as much, or more, polluted, has a much more cosmopolitan atmosphere.

[quote]You must see them though. Great street cred.

What do you mean?

[quote]Mexico City, though as much, or more, polluted, has a much more cosmopolitan atmosphere.

Very high altitude. You need to time to adjust to it.

r145, when were you in Moscow?

I was there last year and it blew the pants of any American city I have been to. Clean, ornate, well dressed and cosmopolitan citizens. I loved it.

I mean that everyone will be very impressed that you made it to the Pyramids. That is street credit, i.e. you will be envied by your friends. Cairo was happy with Jews in those days because Sadat had not been murdered yet. My bf was Jewish and they were very nice to him. Egyptians are nice people but it is not a cosmopolitan city as others said.

I spent the summer of 1981 working in Mexico City. It was a beautiful place and I met, and worked with, many wonderful people. While one should always be on guard in a big city, it had not yet become the dangerous place it is today. I felt free to move about in large parts of the city.

If you go, do be aware of the problems related to elevation. Mexico City is on a plateau, a mile and a half up in the air. Even after you have been there a few weeks and your body has had time to adjust, a flight of stairs will send you into oxygen debt. I was 24 and extremely fit, but I felt the lack of oxygen in the air every day. A woman in our company held a small party in her hotel suite the first week we were there. Fruity rum drinks were served. The next morning, when we showed up for work, we were all still drunk because of the paucity of oxygen in the air. We stayed drunk for the rest of the day. It wasn't until the following morning that we were hung over.

Do be careful with the booze if you visit Mexico City.

I took the pot I'd bought in Acapulco to Mexico City. Smoking pot at high altitude is also something else.

R145

Where were you coming from, Boris - St. Petersburg?

One in ten Russians wants to emigrate. Poverty and homelessness is rampant. Real incomes continue to fall in a country where the average pension is about $160 a month and $12,000 a year is a good salary.

When was I there? 1992, 1995, 2001, 2005, 2011 and 2015.

Unlike you, I got off the tour bus.

I too thought I'd hate LA and love San Francisco, and I hated SF and loved LA.

I agree with the assessment of Austin as well. It's strange, but of all the cities in TX I visited (Dallas, Houston, Austin, and El Paso), I liked El Paso the most.

Let me add a place to this list: Key West. Even 20 years ago, when I first went there, it consisted of a tourist area, a bad, rocky beach, and strip malls. Now it's even worse. The tourist area is bigger and even more crowded. Don't go there (unless someone else is paying for it).

I went to Mexico City and Acapulco with my grandparents when I was 10 yrs old. It was an amazing trip. We went to an old silver mine, a bull fight, a cliff diving show, a mineral spring resort (where pampered women slathered mineral mud on their faces as they sunbathed). I don't think you can do any of those things now. The mines are all closed, so is the resort. Cliff diving and bullfights might still be happening, but I can't imagine going there considering how dangerous it's become. Sad.

^^Forgot to mention that we also happened to see peasants crawling on their knees to the shrine of Guadalupe. Fascinating.

I would love to go to Egypt, but I have been told one day is enough in Cairo. There are 100 million people living in Egypt and 25% of them live in Cairo. I have several friends who live there. Despite having degrees in engineering or computing, the only jobs they can find are working at customer call centers for less than $400/month. I think the pyramids are a must-see, but I'm prepared to be disappointed. You always see the pictures with the desert stretching out behind the pyramids, but if you turn around from that vantage point, you have the city of Giza intruding right to the base of the pyramids. Sharm al Sheik is said to be very inexpensive now since tourism steeply declined following the terrorist attack on the Russian plane a couple of years ago. Luxor is another place I would love to see, but it's a LONG way from Cairo.

In North America, I think Toronto is very disappointing. There is a feeling of self-importance there, and despite being the largest city in Canada, I found it boring (I lived there part-time for three years).

AAAARGHH! Finally someone who gets Toronto. I moved there for six months to try it out. Very cliquish. Muslims are jealous of Sikhs. The kids are in Fiji gangs, this gang and that gang and have no jobs. I mean immigrants from Southeast Asia. There’s a horrible monster mall in Mississauga with 500 shops. Road rage like crazy.

Those weren't peasants, R160. Those were Catholics. Devout Catholics.

HaHa, that was funny R163..

I considered including it too, r162, but does anyone really say "OMG you'll LOVE Toronto"?

Rome. Dirty, dangerous, smelly.

New Orleans. Dirty, smelly, boring. Get and stay drunk.

Athens. Boring as hell. Unfriendly people.

Paris. Unfriendly, smells like piss. Get a Popemobile.

Mykonos. Depressed and smug people, overpriced, boring.

Could this thread be any more boring and repetitive? Of course major US cities and tourist destinations are going to disappoint some people. And apparently most of DL only goes to major cities and then complain about them again and again.

Me. I've finally been to me, and I found it vastly overrated -- Charlene

R160 You’re so cute. But how would you know a peasant from a non-peasant at age 10. I’m still laughing. You did confuse me for a bit though.

LOVE Rome , Venice and Charleston . Savannah can be lovely, if you get past the MITGOGAE AND PAULA "BITCH"DEEN shit of the moment. Went to NYC , several months ago , people were much nicer there than in the Repug suburb of Atlanta, I'm staying in. New Orleans is the SHITHOLE OF THE UNIVERSE. Go there if you have a suicide wish. I thought the Swiss were lovely, except for the woman in Zermatt, who told me she wished more Americans had been killed 9/11. I went there 2 weeks after the attacks.

Enjoyed Vermont , Maine and Nantucket. Brugge was incredible as were the Cotswolds.

And yet, r167...

I loved Brugge but something terroristic happened there. I love Charleston too.. The Swiss woman had Nazi blood from somewhere.

What is a MITGOGAE please?

ROchelle

R170- did you once lecture me on Mandingo and your Southern studies?

R170 , not that I'm aware of. If I did , I must apologize for my poor manners and seeming lack of charm.

R172, Thank you, for your kind response . MIDNIGHT IN THE GARDEN OF GOOD AND EVIL.

Uh, R169, because of the rags they were wearing? I don't think they were costumes.

Oh no, you or whoever were great. I had a similar thought of MITGOGAE and Mandingo and you or someone educated me . Have a good night.

Rehoboth, DE. I loved my friend's rented condo and pool, but the beach was rather devoid of charm. And shells. So I'm visiting Sanibel in the Fall.

Bar Harbor (been twice). I prefer Boothbay Harbor, Camden, and Kennebunkport.

Amsterdam, about the fifth time. Over it, its trams and bikes , its litter, its Gap and McDonald's, even its rijstaffels.

But not NYC. Never NYC!

It seems to me that typing the initials of something as long as Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil is a self-defeating effort. After checking to make sure the 8 initial letters are correct, and in the right order, you take about as much time as writing the words out. And most people have no idea what you mean.

Kids today. What are we going to do?

Perhaps, R176, but you were only 10 years old and a 10 year old's data collecting skill is not well developed.

Crawling on the knees across that large plaza is a sign of devotion to the Virgin. It is undertaken by the devout, as a demonstration of their devotion. They come from a wide cross-section of devout Catholics.

It is not undertaken by the poor to show everyone they are poor.

okay I am going to defend Philly. Yes the people can be coarse and obnoxious but the city has a lot to offer and the food scene is great.

I'll defend Rome because it is Rome motherfuckers! And there really is no rival when viewing a panorama of the city. It is intoxicating. Florence too. You can really feel the history.

R176- I think pilgrims wear rags. I saw a kid near Charleston dressed kind of ragged, carrying a 10 ft cross and walking for some religious reason. My bf told me that was a tradition.

I’m r23, I’d like to add that when a friend moved to St. Petersburg, Fl, I thought he would deeply regret it. I was so pleasantly surprised when I visited him. I’ve always thought of Florida as being the armpit of the universe but St. Pete’s is actually a nice place. I had a great time.

I hated New Orleans. Maybe you have to be 19 and drunk but it stank of vomit, piss and anger.

Loved, loved, loved Malta. It’s kind of a time warp place, no real beaches to speak of even though it’s an island but the history is fabulous if that’s your thing. On one tour the guide was talking about the great history of the Phoenicians, the Greeks, the Romans, the Knights Templar etc., and the mark they all left on the island, on the next tour the guide just said they’d been conquered by anybody who ever learned to paddle a boat. He got a laugh.

[quote] I had terrible jetlag and was up early well before the crowds and loved strolling around the deserted alleyways. Went well off the beaten track of back to the hotel for a nap during the super busy hours

This is pretty much our plan of attack whenever we visit a new city overseas. Even the most blah city yields interesting things to discover. I was born in San Francisco and live in New York so I'm predisposed to have a double-dose of smugness, but as I get older, I've learned to go abroad with modest expectations and just see what unfolds. I've never understood Americans who leave America looking for America.

My partner and I were hopelessly lost and getting cranky in cold and rainy Istanbul when we came across this tiny cafe serving the most interesting-looking little cakes. Hoping more for a dry place to rest than a memorable experience, we sat on little stools at tables which were these large aluminium disks. The cakes were delicious and the tea warmed us right up. After we finished, they gave us a sharpie and invited us to 'sign the table'. When it's full they mount it on the wall. We never would've found it if we'd stuck to the prescribed routes or taken a tour.

My point is, go with an open mind and allow the city to wash over you and you'll find something memorable just about everywhere.

No kidding, R180. We saw a wide spectrum of humanity on that trip. The "peasants' I referred to were on the road side crawling on their knees, not just on at the shrine. We saw many, many poor "peasants" in Mexico. I'll never forget a small boy who had an iguana hanging by the neck on a rope---like it was a pet. He let us hold it and get our picture with it for a few pesos. Another kid was picking up cow shit with his bare hands and putting it in a bucket. In a marketplace we saw meat hanging in stalls with flies buzzing around.

So many of the complaints are really just a function of going at the wrong time of year, to places like Florence, Paris & Venice.

Europe is very pricey & overcrowded in summer. By July, the locals are beyond annoyed with the tourists & you have to multiply the surly factor by about ten.

Go in October/November or April. Best time for Paris, if you're into museums, is the dead of winter. Cold as fuck, yes. But there's no one else there.

I found Vivian Vance's powder room to be absolutely vulgar.

[quote] okay I am going to defend Philly. Yes the people can be coarse and obnoxious but the city has a lot to offer and the food scene is great.

Yes! I never thought of Israeli cuisine beyond hummus, but Zahav is worth a trip all by itself. We also had a great meal at Wm Mulherin & Sons in Fishtown

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Great thread. Good advice about traveling in May and October.

After , All these horrible comments , I think i'll stay in the basement.

I have been to both Mexico City and Cairo in the past year and loved both of them. The pollution nor the overcrowding was as bad as some people have stated. I also had no problem with the crowds. The nightlife in Mexico City is wonderful too. Plenty to do in both places and when I retire next year I am considering moving to Cairo.

[quote]I considered including it too, [R162], but does anyone really say "OMG you'll LOVE Toronto"?

I've been told from time to time what a terrific city it is.

I live in SF, and although I don’t hate it, I sometimes look at the throngs of tourists (especially Europeans) and wonder, “are they seeing something I’m not”? Especially in the Castro, which despite the rainbows plastered on every surface is turning into a tarted-up Tenderloin - junkie beggars every 20 feet, dozens of vacant storefronts, etc. I used to hate the naked exhibitionists, but now I realize they are actually the most interesting things in the neighborhood.

And still you can’t swing a dead skunk on a weekend evening without hitting a posse of French tourists or a shriek of woo girls from Fremont with their baby gay BFFs.

[quote]Rehoboth, DE. I loved my friend's rented condo and pool, but the beach was rather devoid of charm. And shells.

I can't remember the last time I saw a shell.

Where have the shells gone?

Lol @ "a shriek of woo girls". Apt.

[quote]Well I guess we can add Barcelona to the list of previously civilized places that are now shitholes.

I hate Spain anyway. I hate the food. Hate the language. Absolutely nothing about it appeals to me. It's sort of peasanty. Does anything of value come from there? Do they even make cars or anything like that? Backwards country in Western Europe. Peasant stock. Very cruel to animals.

Last time I went we crossed the border from France and stayed in that town where they chase the bulls along the streets. God, it was awful. Couldn't wait to cross back into France.

[quote] He took me to the most adorable little pensione. Dinner and breakfast included. They served us the most delicious figs I've ever eaten from the garden. Next to this pensione was a pathway up a hill to an ancient church, walk a little further and down the path to an adorable secret beach with a cafe and bubbling spring. My whole week in Italy was like that. It was charmed...and when I rented a moped and traveled along the Amalfi coast I wanted to scream at the beauty (see pic) I had no idea.

MARY!

R197 was just in Spain and came back to my favorite Tapas place in DC. I looked at my husband and said, I hate to be THAT person but this is better than anything we had in Spain. Granted, I think Tapas in Spain is like going to a deli here. Not always the most elevated food but meant for a quick nosh. Either way, I really like Spain. I like the food better than France where 90% of the food is pretty much the same in every restaurant.

NOTHING Mary about it apart from the scream, R198. Fuck off.

Branson, Missouri. Too touristy.

I would also add Vienna. It really is capitalism run amok. Lovely Beaux Arts buildings covered with commercial signage, much of it for the one MacDonalds and one Burger King within the ring, as if two fast food restaurants need that much signage. The cathedral has pay stations throughout. One cannot just buy an audio guide. They milk you for money at every point of interest. It is the only place in Germanic Europe that I found the hard, pale tomatoes that we get in the USA. Generally the produce is lousy. Scads of people in ratty and smelly 18th century costume trying to get you to attend one of the tourist trap dinner concerts. Outside the ring, it looks like a Soviet block country. Historic building in poor condition and covered in graffiti. The hip area is a mixture of harsh and desperate.

The Zum Weissen Rauchfangkehrer and Gössl are still there and are still wonderful, but that is about it.

R195: "I can't remember the last time I saw a shell. Where have the shells gone?"

They're all in Sanibel. No worries, though: he's going there in the fall

[quote] NOTHING Mary about it apart from the scream, [R198].

*ahem*

Let's look again at exactly what you wrote:

[quote]He took me to [bold]the most adorable[/bold] little pensione. Dinner and breakfast included. They served us [bold]the most delicious[/bold] figs I've ever eaten from the garden. Next to this pensione was a pathway up a hill to an ancient church, walk a little further and down the path to an [bold]adorable[/bold] secret beach with a cafe and bubbling spring. My whole week in Italy was like that. [bold]It was charmed[/bold]...and when I rented a moped and traveled along the Amalfi coast [bold]I wanted to scream at the beauty[/bold] (see pic) I had no idea.

R189

Have to agree, although it's been going downhill for maybe 10-15 years now. The scene filmed was, I believe, in the Plaça de Catalunya at the top of the Ramblas where we always stay at the le Meridien. Each time we go back to BCN (lots of cruises leave from there) there seem to be more sidewalk street traders, kids sleeping rough, muggings and purse snatchings and drug deals going down on the street: we just have to look out the window from what was once one of the best addresses in town. A commotion used to be some drunken Brits falling or being thrown out of a bar. Now a walk on the busiest street in the city, day or night, can be a nightmare.

I'm with you, r202. I've traveled throughout most of western and central Europe, and the city I was least impressed with was Vienna. I've been there twice, and both times my impression was meh. Vienna doesn't seem to have anywhere near the charm that I had expected, and the people seemed rather brusque, even for a big city.

I thought Vienna was stunningly beautiful...but there was a very creepy undertone.

Let's face it...most gay destinations are a disappointment. Overpriced, overhyped, overcrowded, substandard food & hotels, shitty service...

I'm looking at you, Mykonos, Sitges, P-town, Fire Island, Rehoboth Beach...FI's redeeming virtue is its stunning beaches, but that's about it.

Neither Key West nor Miami Beach are gay destinations any longer & they both suck. Miami Beach is an absolute shithole now.

What about Asia? Does it never disappoint?

What do you mean by "creepy undertone," R207? For me, there was something about the Viennese that I didn't particularly care for, although I can't really put my finger on what that was.

I'm living in a mayor capital city in europe and am still waiting for my hometown mentioned here. Or we are just doing something wrong with the hordes of tourists... Come on DL.. don't disappoint me!

As to Asia: Kuala Lumpur- Atlanta in a jungle with a few old and interesting bits in between freeway overpasses. Heat and smog. Bangkok: Blade runner meets the third world, worst traffic imaginable, great people. Singapore and Penang: two versions of Disneyland.

r211...you're in Scandinavia,right?

Oslo, Copenhagen, Stockholm, Helsinki...all very civilized, but very beige. Didn't find any of them exciting. Enjoyed my visits, but wouldn't go back to any of them a 2nd time. And actual Scandinavian/Nordic food is unappealing.

But the countryside, the fjords, etc...unbeatably beautiful. I'd go back to Norway for the fjords, mountains & lakes alone.

Nope, not svandinavia. Actually, I've never been to scandinavia except one visit to the countryside of Denmark, but from this one trip I do think your description is spot on @ R213!

*Scandinavia

San Francisco is physically beautiful - the hills, fog, bridge, architecture. It’s got issues - but I still think it is one of the most beautiful locations in the world . I think you need a car to be able to go drive through town and the park and across Golden Gate to Mt Tam to appreciate its natural wonder. Unfortunately most people stay downtown/Mission which is the ugliest section of the city filled with homeless.

Good to see LA getting props - lots of little neighborhoods of beauty and interest.

Most European cities are so overrun with tourists and homegenized by bland global chains, they don’t seem as exotic or charming as they once were. The small towns are the way to go.

Opinions about: 1) New Zealand, 2) Sardinia, 3) South Korea? Overrated or worth visiting?

NZ is pretty but boring

Cities in japan? How are they?

R211

Vilnius? San Marino? Brussels? Sofia? Belgrade? Helsinki?

You sound like you might be Spanish: "mayor" for "major" and "am still waiting for my hometown" to be "mentioned here," but both Madrid and Barcelona have been covered.

You've already disappointed us by being so coy. C'mon: you're here and you can post so we know you're not a virgin.

[quote]You've already disappointed us by being so coy. C'mon: you're here and you can post so we know you're not a virgin.

Us?

I couldn't give a shit where he's from.

Lisbon?

Zurich?

Zurich, right ?

I'm guessing Prague. No one in this thread has mentioned it and it's a major tourist destination. Am I right? Personally, never been. Sounds like it's too crowded to go now unless you go in the off season. I've seen a book of pre-war photos of Prague my friend got years ago, and have heard how beautiful it is (or was). For the Prague experts, when is the best time to go to avoid the crowds?

Prague is beautiful architecturally. Go in October. Might be rainy - but it’s a smallish city and easy to walk. Definitely worth visiting. And it has a gay nightlife. I prefer it to Berlin- which is kinda ugly and a little too hipster.

Finally!

What I loved about Los Angeles/SoCal, aside from the weather and the views/hills, was the food. It has the best food of any city I've been to in North America, aside from Montreal. If you like breakfast or "american" food, Los Angeles sucks. I didn't go to a single breakfast place that was as good as the ones here in Chicago. But the "ethnic" food is just on a totally different level. The food tastes much fresher and I also felt LA restaurants don't water down their food compared to other cities. There is an incredible Thai restaurant in Sunset Boulevard called Night Market, it had by far the best Thai food I've ever eaten, as good as a home cooked meal. And the funny part is that it's in a very "touristy" area of the city. I cannot imagine Michigan Avenue having any comparable ethnic cuisine on that level. And there is much more diversity in LA/SoCal regarding Asian restaurants. The Chinese/Thai food in Chicago is fairly predictable, mainly being either Szechuanese or the typical Americanized Chinese crap. But SoCal even has a restaurant that is Chinese Muslim cuisine, to give an example of its diversity. And if you're looking for the best Indian food in the country, it can be found in the Orange County area.

Copenhagen Vienna Dublin

All boring as fuck.

I've been to loads of cities but wouldn't go back to any of those.

Berlin had been trashed, Berliner @ R226. You need to re-read the thread.

Brussels: A cross between Washington DC and Syracuse NY-- with a few good museums. Take an early train in and your done by 4pm... then get out. Ghent and Antwerp however are wonderful.

You are right R229 I must have overread it, sorry. Found it now.

r230 Another upvote for Antwerp!

For the people that think Athens is awful you should try the city centre of Heraklion in Crete it is truly awful, beggars, pickpockets pollution it has everything.

For some reason I seem to have ended up there for a few hours every 10 years since I was 9 in 1978 and it has never changed.

Nice places in the East of the Island though, Agios Nikolaos (about 40 miles away) stands out.

r200, I honestly don't think you can possibly GET more Mary! than using the word "adorable" repeatedly and writing "I wanted to scream at the beauty."

LOL

I've lived in San Diego for 36 years and in that time the quality of life has deteriorated, much like Austin mentioned above, and all the big city problems have overwhelmed it. Plus due to climate change it's not the "perfect climate" any more. Yet the cost of living is astronomically high.

I love the random Washington DC/Syracuse amalgam. That is pretty damn funny.

San Francisco. People said that New Yorkers always love it and hate LA.

Not me. I found it prissy and quirky in an unpleasant (to me) way. I liked LA more, because it has a seamy underbelly that reminded me of New York.

It’s been 20 years since I’ve been out there, though.

R192 One thing about the Middle East is that older men are NOT invisible like they are in the U.S. Younger Arabs love older men and do not discriminate based on age.

Portland and Seattle. Tons of homeless who are coddled to the extent that they matter more than anyone else. So kumbaya liberal it's embarrassing. Tattooed, dreadlocked, facially pierced, beanie wearing, skateboarding, unwashed snowflakes everywhere. The show Portlandia is not an exaggeration.

SF is now dirty, overpriced, full of homeless people...not the city it was. Grew up in NYC, and just got back from a visit. Midtown was awful...filthy, sickening smells, lots of horrible tourists. Casablanca was a dangerous nightmare. San Antonio is a "there's no there there" place. Boring. Tenerife in the Canary Islands...Germans everywhere. Santa Fe is a bore as well. Santa Rosa CA surprisingly dangerous. Love Chicago, Portland, ME, San Diego, Paris, Minneapolis, DC...

Darfur. Not a single good restaurant.

R224, 1992 worked well for me. Not a lot of tourists at all.

R226 - thank u from R225. Even if it was by accident. I’ve been berated for slamming Berlin for years. Never liked it - and have always preferred Amsterdam. Until recently a better sex scene and much prettier and easier and convenient to other places.

This is obviously a thread meant for stereotypical bitchy queens who hate everything and refuse to find anything good anywhere. You're all certainly doing the gays proud.

Pamukkale in Turkey. There was no water in those famous pools when I was there, so it looked like a white quarry. But the roman ruins on top of it were pretty amazing.

Budapest. Maybe the fact that it was fucking freezing when I was there had something to do with it, but I just didn't like the vibe of the place. And the locals seemed kind of murky.

Fes. The panorama of the city from the nearby hill is fucking spectacular, but when you dive into its streets the city feels very dark and seedy. I much prefered Marrakech, which is also seedy as hell but still seems much more colorful and vibrant.

I was actually pleasantly surprised by Philadelphia. Had very low expectations going there but discovered that it had an unexpectedly great restaurant scene, the Barnes Foundation in its own right merits a visit since it's one of the largest and the best private art collections in America, Rodin Museum, lots of historic monuments and architecture, and it contains a remarkable number of very respectable universities and colleges. It was also surprisingly gay friendly. Obviously, the city has been through some tough times but I really had a good time there. Obviously, you'd be a fool to go to Philadelphia and expect some manicured experience geared towards tourists.

[quote] Cairo is in competition with Mexico City for the worst air pollution. Dirty, grimy, non-descript architecture, full of huge, seething population with no place to go.

Non-descript architecture?! Old town in Cairo has some of the most amazing examples of Islamic architecture in the world and is even inscribed on UNESCO's World Heritage Sites list. Mosque of Ibn Tulun (which is almost 1200 years old) is perhaps the most perfect building I've ever seen. And I loved how you can climb the minarets of most mosques there - the views are amazing.

Did you even bother to move your fat ass out of the hotel?

[quote]This is obviously a thread meant for stereotypical bitchy queens who hate everything and refuse to find anything good anywhere. You're all certainly doing the gays proud.

and what would it be without a typical DL screecher like you turning up to lay a turd? Every successful thread has one and I don't think there's a gay out there who'd be proud of you. Don't kid yourself.

[quote]This is obviously a thread meant for stereotypical bitchy queens who hate everything and refuse to find anything good anywhere.

A bitchy queen has arrived to tell us what bitches we are. Oh, dear...

r157 coming from Mongolia, dickhead - and I'm a New Zealander.

Do you know where else crime, violence and poverty are rife? Look around your good ol' USA.

1 in 10 want to emigrate? At least they want to better themselves unlike your lot who don't even bother to get passports.

You sure seem to spend a lot of time in place that you hate. Sucks for you, I guess.

R71 Irish farmers look at a forest and see a potential field with trees on it. Having said that the reforestation thing wasn't the peoples choice. The government wanted to sell out the former forestry land to a Chinese conglomerate. And sell out they did.

Our Greek neighbors hated trees. Took down all the trees in their yard and planted a huge garden. They hated our trees too and would rake the leaves back to our side of the yard. We did get a lot of cucumbers though.

R243 You do know that I was joking a bit, don't you?

I think every inhabitant of any major city is used to people who either love or hate his city. Sometimes I think its really extreme with Berlin -love or hate - and nothing inbetween. Berlin isn't nice or cozy or pretty everywhere - if you are expecting a "pretty" and "typical" german city you'll be disappointed. The same with expecting sex everywhere - of course there is a lot of sex but not 24/7 on every corner.... It is a huge city with also tons of history visibly in every corner so to speak - layers upon layers of history - all the good and the bad things. But you'll not see it if you're not "prepared" or "open minded enough" to see it.

#######################

From all the big cities I've visited in the last decades (NYC, London, Paris, Amsterdam, Prague....) I was only disappointed by Luxemburg City, but maybe it was just the awful weather and the sheer lack of time while visiting the city. But OP asked for the horror stories so DL delivers those stories... (thanks for the thread btw!)

The first time I’ve seen in writing how the Irish hate trees. I have beautiful old treees on my property and whenever Irish relatives visit, they say “aren’t you worried about those trees”. They really don’t see the value of trees- which I get because it’s all about farmland. But curious that even the modern Irish seem to place no value and actually dislike trees. A strange cultural preference. Ireland’s green fields are beautiful but Dublin could use something to make it slightly less ugly.

[quote]is a huge city with also tons of history visibly in every corner so to speak -

How aware are you of the Nazi era living in Berlin? Has that part of its history been completely wiped out?

[quote]tons of history visibly in every corner

I thought it was bombed to smithereens.

r254 Dublin is full of teardown crap buildings the British built as cheaply as possible that are now "historic" and have been preserved, even though they're terrible. They won't build skyscrapers either because they think it will spoil the look of the city. I think the look they're going for is "confusing mess"

There are some squares in London in which the trees were planted 150 years ago when the houses were built and they really need to be taken down and new ones re-planted. They're TOO huge and they take all the light. There'd be such opposition.

r251 you realize the government is elected by you the people, right? Vote the idiots out. You guys have had essentially a Tory-light government for far too long.

I think it has to do with how you grew up to experience the world around you, R254. People who grew up in the Plains states in the US sometimes get weirded out when they come east and see all the trees. It feels claustrophobic to them. I'm the opposite. I grew up around mature trees on wooded properties. I don't like endless open spaces. It makes me feel unmoored in a way.

I guess the Irish don't like trees because they don't want to have fucking elves living in them

That IS a problem, r260. But just spray some Elf-B-Gone and they'll disappear back to the Black Forest!

No need to eradicate the elves! Read a few elf-help books instead!

I was pretty disappointed in Paris. After visiting lots of other European cities we found it crowded, expensive and snooty. We spent a week and that was about 4 days too long. Museums were great but otherwise it was meh.

Paris = meh

Rome, Montreal, Boston, D.C., Paris = "ok" but wouldn't want to visit again.

LovedBerlin, love London, Buenos Aires = meh but would visit again.

Has anybody on DL ever been to Asia, Africa, South America or Oceania?

R225 The Nazi era is - as any other part of the history of Berlin or even Germany - still visible. Thats what really makes Berlin unique in my eyes. And that's why Berlins architecture is also such an eclectic mix of medival, prussian, weimar era, nazi, east- and west german and modern post-reunification buildings. Germany has a very strong culture of rememberence, you might not be aware of it, but every German learns about the Nazi era from a very young age on. And no- not everything was totally destroyed in 1945 and - just for your information - not everyone here was or is a Nazi...

But we are always "happy" about Americans visiting Berlin and only wanting to see the old Nazi stuff and nothing else ....

damn.... R267 is for R255

DC. Too many blacks.

Chicago - meh. Toronto - also meh. Seem like knockoffs of NYC.

Thanks for the interesting response, R267

[quote]just for your information - not everyone here was or is a Nazi...

Thank you for the clarification.

I had virtually the same experience in Ischia, R132. I was in my very early 20's, traveling with my boyfriend at the time, and we were extremely broke. It was the middle of an unusually cold winter, and we'd been moving farther and farther south-- bickering the entire time-- while we searched for warmer weather, which we finally found (kinda) in Ischia. The owner of the pensione we were taken to was a grandmotherly old lady who charged us a very reasonable fee and then kept discounting it throughout our stay as she realized how broke we were. Yes, it was winter and they probably needed the business but it still felt like she was being very kind. We had planned to stay for a couple days and ended up staying for a week-- there wasn't a ton to do but it was much more pleasant than the shitty hostels we'd been crashing at in rome, naples, etc. I've always wanted to go back.

Did you pay with... nature's credit card?

r219 My first time in Japan I was blown away by Osaka (visiting it first). Fascinating and highly detailed, endless discoveries as we simply wandered around for days with no real plans, sometimes taking taxis to different areas, even venturing into the surrounding suburbs. Very Japanese and very urban, very hip. If you like Japanese pop culture, youth fashion, food, trends, etc., you'll go nuts over Osaka. Expensive yes, in some ways, but we soon learned how to spend money wisely. After that we flew to Tokyo, expecting to be twice as blow away... but honestly found it a bit disappointing by comparison. It's much bigger and grander than Japan's smaller cities obviously, but more westernized and parts of it honestly felt like we were back in NYC. You should see Tokyo, but venturing to Japan's lesser known cities is a must if you really want to experience urban Japan.

Anyone been to Vietnam?

Yes.

I liked Osaka too. One thing I noticed about most of Japan (outside of Tokyo) is how 70's it was in terms of decor and design. Harvest gold ad Avocado with chunky wood and lots of brass, Like an economic boom happened, then stopped, and nothing happened since. Kind of shabby in a midwestern USA kind but with density rather than sprawl.

So is Kyoto all that - or is it overhyped too? Planning a Tokyo, Kyoto, Hong Kong trip - as they are the places that everyone talks about. Opinions?

R36, what “basic services” does Ireland lack? Valet parking? As in every other country, you won’t find “services” on every corner in rural areas. But I lived in Dublin for 12 years and it was like every other medium-sized city. Plenty of “services”. And if it’s an over the counter medicine, get it over the fucking counter and stop whining..

Oh! the Osaka airport is a great. It sits on a manmade island in the middle of the sea. It's like landing on an extra long aircraft carrier

{quote]What about Asia? Does it never disappoint?

Kuala Lumpur is boring. Bangkok is a mess of terrible urban planning, but the food is good and the Thai people are friendly. Singapore also tends towards the boring, but worth a couple of days - it helps to have a decent travel budget. Singapore is clean and easy to get around, too.

There are downsides with the people, but the Chinese cities I've visited have been interesting. Hong Kong is great. I didn't think much of Tokyo, and was a bit underwhelmed with Kyoto - it was definitely worth a visit, but I had pictured universal beauty, but it's still a city.

For a lot of people, Bali is very underwhelming. If you only go to the tourist strip, it almost certainly will be, but there are some beautiful parts if you explore further away. Phuket is similar - awful in spots, but nicer in others.

Kyoto is one of the most magical places on earth but often completely overrun with tourists. If you want to ENJOY the golden temple or Kiyomizu dera go early or late or when it's pouring rain. Get out to the smaller temples and villages. especially north of town and Nara to the south. Excellent public transport and Kyoto station runs buses on a circuit so need need of a rental car. Also a good rail network too. I've been there in October and every day was either dry cloudless and in the 70's F or pouring rain. Another tip. Many places ( the old royal palaces) require an invitation/advanced ticket. GET THEM! You then have a private viewing/quiet, especially for the gardens. It's inexpensive if you live like a local.

Like some others on this thread, I expected to be indifferent about Los Angeles and I thought I would love San Francisco. I couldn't wait to get out of SF (dirty, filthy, unfriendly people, kind of boring in most neighborhoods) and I really enjoyed LA., much to my surprise.

Some of the best trips have been within the US. I’ve met interesting people and stayed at some great B&Bs just by deciding to drive somewhere instead of fly. No one place in particular just lots of little side trips over the years. I like the randomness of a road trip but the one place I will never, ever go back if I can possibly avoid it is Gary, Indiana. Fucking hellish.

Honolulu is like Detroit with Palm Trees.

Where is a good place in Hawaii

After 25 years of travel to Europe, I’ve lost almost all interest. It really is overrun with tourists and people. And globalized. The nature is more beautiful elsewhere - and once you’ve seen the architecture and culture before it was so crowded, it’s hard to enjoy now.

I think South America is the next destination. Though I’ve heard bad things about Rio.

R259 good point. Moved from southeast Michigan to the East coast for a year and while I loved the fall season, I wouldn't go back. It felt too claustrophobic and creepy. I'd moved in mid-summer so that was the initial impression and it stuck.

SE Michigan has plenty of trees too by the way, they're just not densely clustered in the neighborhoods and along the roadways the way they are out east.

Agree about Boston. I didn't think Cambridge was that interesting either.

I actually liked Pittsburgh other than its insane traffic.

Toronto is okay. I've got family there so go a lot. Downtown feels sterile and there isn't really a lot for a tourist to do, but there is an energetic vibe in the city generally, which I like.

[quote]Agree about Boston. I didn't think Cambridge was that interesting either.

I remember spending time in Boston and going down to NYC before I went back to England and thinking even the commercials on TV are more amusing in New York. Boston is dreary and heavy and very provincial. Have they finished with that "Big Dig" fiasco?

Boston is just so drab. Even Harvard's campus is ugly. You'd think with all that old money that they could make it pretty, but no.

[quote] Even Harvard's campus is ugly.

Yes, a bit of scruffy ill maintained grass in the front of the main building. After visiting the top universities in England I was amazed by this.

s.[quote]It's weird to me that people assume that because they once loved a place forty years ago that everyone else should automatically love it the same way today.

You have to remember that this is Datalounge, where for many posters, the world stopped in the 1970s. It's amazing how out of touch some of the posters here are.

Playa del Ingles, Gran Canaria..Concrete and buildings, full of Germans and British. When I got there I realised that the guys that recommended it were interested in the unrelenting sex. scene.Sooner the place slips back into the sea the better.

[quote]You have to remember that this is Datalounge, where for many posters, the world stopped in the 1970s. It's amazing how out of touch some of the posters here are.

I hate the sneerers on DL. Stop sneering at everyone. Fuck off if you don't like us or shut the fuck up.

DC. The most conservative "liberal " city in the country, full of uptight self important and status hungry bores. Weirdly middle American suburban in character. People will literally stare you down like its a small town, nothing like New Yorkers. Every one dresses in business casual. No real character or ethnic enclaves.

[quote]How aware are you of the Nazi era living in Berlin? Has that part of its history been completely wiped out?

Berlin oozes history. The first two Soviet tanks invading Berlin are on display in the park. The Reichstag still has bullet holes in it from the 1945 invasion. 18th century buildings on Unter den Linden were rebuilt by the East Germans.

A small bit of the Nazi architecture is still around - Templehof airport, which now houses refugees. The Kaiser Wilhelm church, left intact as a memorial to war. The spot where Hitler bought the farm is a parking lot with a tiny sign.

Much of the old DDR architecture has been torn down, which I miss - some of the goofiest lava lamp, plywood & shag carpeting interiors you've ever seen. (The DDR Museum does have some great exhibits, though.)

[quote]Where is a good place in Hawaii

The north shore of Kauai is spectacular.

Another vote for Philadelphia. People seem to either go in expecting nothing or with seriously inflated expectations based on how much the locals hype it up. That and the horrible NYC inferiority complex.

R213, I had a parrot than pined for for fjords, but it died.

Curious why Philly is disappointing given most people have seen Rocky - which shows the working class provincial neighborhoods and mentality. Do people expect it to be prettier, cleaner, happier, older?

My friend who did his Masters in Philly said it was by far the dirtiest city he has ever seen. In terms of dirt, it's where NYC was like 25 years ago.

R289- r291 I was a bit afraid to come out and say that directly, but yes. I was terribly disappointed walking around the campus. All that dark heavy red brick...

Lots of places I thought were magic leave me cold. . I thought that was caused by aging but I also think they have significantly changed. Number one on the list is San Francisco. The US ctites that seem to have improved on recent visits are Philadelphia and DC. I think global tourism has become distructive. Every place a cruise ship visits is now an overcrowded, tacky mess.

This has been an interesting thread. I happen to dislike the south east coast of Florida, too crowded, horrible drivers. I did not care for Bar Harbor - I found it depressing. I agree with the two posters who wrote that St Pete is charming. A lot of funky raw art vibe and the parks and areas down by the water are lovely. I was there last month and I was really surprised by how much I adored the whole experience.

I have come to realize some of the places I really would have liked to have visited actually exist in another time, like 1920s Paris. I am not really fond of modern life, modern people and modern problems.

Agree R303 - trying to find new inspiring places in my 50s. I know part of it is just not seeing glamour anymore. Just hassles and crowds.

DC is one of the few cities that has gotten better in past 20 years. Much hipper, livelier, young, wealthy. LA is also much improved.

R305 How has LA improved in the past 20 years?

Mass transit and gentrification

Just returned from Barcelona and Lisbon. Barcelona is crowded and, aside from the Sagrada Familia and Picasso Museum, there is nothing truly "bucket list" worthy. But the men. Oh my. They kind of start to look alike after a few days, but they are generally attractive. Oh yeah, it is hot and humid beyond belief.

Lisbon was surprisingly enjoyable, like a poorer version Barcelona. People were extra friendly and engaged in conversation freely. Shitty English all around, but better than my nonexistent Portuguese.

As for unexpected disappointments: I'll add Monaco. The idea of visiting seemed cultured, sophisticated. Not in the least.

I kind of like Boston but then again I like places that feel a little provincial. Otherwise what makes a city special?

Monaco has always been crappy. Crowded ugly apartment blocks. Nice casino. Go to Eze instead.

I was surprised that I didn't fall in love with Maui. I prefer the beaches in Mexico, I guess.

If one wished to give the world an enema one would place the nozzle in Cairo.

I hated Newark.

I wanted to love Branson, but I’m a Reno girl.

Cartagena, Columbia. Third World trash pot. Nothing to do and I got horrible diarrhea that lasted for days.

Nantucket.

Glad to see Peru hasn't been listed as far as being disappointing. Machu Picchu is fantastic, the food is very good everywhere (although I didn't have the cuy/guinea pig) and the people are super, super nice whether it's Lima, Cuzco, or the countryside. The weather was also great in late June/early July.

Cannes, Nicee, most of southern coast of France.

r90, your post was meant to be read aloud and savored.

What fairies would go to Monaco?

r279 I lived in west Ireland AND then in Dublin for a few years recently, when were you last there? I can compare the two sides of the country, not just Dublin, to the US. And it's my fucking opinion, if you're fine with it then you fucking move back there and live there and you can walk to the chemist and have them treat you like a toddler for buying something as basic as aspirin. I got so sick of having to explain to the person what I wanted x or y medication for every time and then having to listen to them tell me basic information as to how to use it. Fuck that. There's such a thing as TOO much of a nanny state. Other basic services.. street signs are sporadic, people jaywalk, many laws aren't enforced, nothing's handicapped accessible, the garda are corrupt, taxi drivers are often shady, rules are followed sort of like "eh, it's good enough that we thought about doing it the right way".

Basic services.. let's see. The healthcare system is a poor shadow copy of the UK system. You need private insurance still and it's almost as expensive as it is in the US when the costs are totaled. Basic utilities are a pain in the ass. There's a housing crisis due to the weird laws and lack of incentives. It's a nation of renters and the landlord hold all the power. The housing crisis in Dublin is ridiculous and the government's known about it and has done very little to address it because it's a conservative government and has been for a long while, and they have this notion that private industry will solve all the problems. Yet they still haven't.

You have to order everything from Amazon UK if you can't find it in stores, but if you do get it in the local stores it's (often) ridiculously more expensive. Lots of apps don't bother to work in Ireland, even things like Amazon and Google hubs aren't sold and don't work there. You have to have crap relayed through postal services from the UK or the mainland if you want anything that for whatever reason, they don't ship to Ireland, which is around 65% of the things on Amazon. There's a zip code system (Eircodes) that are sort of used by some people but most people don't and don't even know theirs. The postal system is shitty in that if you order anything from anywhere that has to be imported, it is ALWAYS inspected and takes additional time to get to you and the boxes are often damaged like they've been sat on or rained on, and they charge ridiculous fees for importing anything. Schools are still 90% owned by the Catholic church, the government is selling the country out to the highest bidder. There's monopolies everywhere and customer service is nonexistent. If a company DOES have a website, it's some crap from 10 years ago that barely functions. The whole country is about 15 years behind the rest of the world.

The Apple facility in Galway, for example - a $5billion dollar facility that would have brought over 800 jobs to Athenry was postponed for something like 2-5 years because ONE rich asshole in Dublin held it up. He wanted them to build it on land he owned near Dublin, but they passed and decided to go near Galway, and this one guy, due to the bizarre nature of the laws, held up development of a 5 Billion dollar facility on land he didn't even own in a county where he didn't even live. And Apple decided "fuck this" after enough time had passed, and decided to build a second facility in Denmark instead. That's the sort of broken basic shit I'm talking about.

Yes things are changing, but not fast enough and there's a kind of "eh, it's good enough" attitude about it all that is aggravating beyond belief.

So R321 - did you like it there?

Come to Barcelona, watch & be amazed while we eat dog poop of the streets!

r322 it was magical!

Portland, Oregon. To borrow a line from Gertrude Stein, there's no there...there.

Honolulu, it seemed like Florida with all the tourist stuff

Another vote for Toronto. It had always been described to me as a clean New York. Well, it is not clean and it is not New York. It looks like the boxes Montreal came in.

I am sure it is a safe city that is much more livable than many, but I found its almost complete lack of visual culture surprising and depressing.

R320 Those who belong to the gambling set.

I love Toronto R327, but your statement comparing Montreal cracked me up! Toronto will never be a Montreal, so on that we agree.

RE: trees in Ireland. Ireland has one of the cloudiest climates in the planet. 1100 hours of sunlight in an entire year in many parts . Only some Scottish and Icelandic cities compare. (Most US cities are between 2000-3000 sunshine hours/year, desert climates around the world almost double that). I'm only guessing, but I think the Irish might like to let as much light in as possible . Imagine having only 5 or 6 brilliantly sunny days in a summer and having your town filled with shady trees. You'd want to kill yourself.!

Fascinating, R321. I could listen to you grumbling all day.

I live in London, England and we hear and know nothing about Southern Ireland...or any other European country, quite frankly. But nothing about what's going on in Southern Ireland. NOTHING.

[quote]The postal system is shitty in that if you order anything from anywhere that has to be imported, it is ALWAYS inspected and takes additional time to get to you and the boxes are often damaged like they've been sat on or rained on,

LOL - but not funny really. Must be very frustrating.

R217 I thought New Zealand was fucking boring and so provincial, and I come from rural England and have spent a lot of time in Scandinavia. It seems there’s no real art scene or any drive to create there. The locals are nice and the wild country is impressive, but the air is sluggish somehow. I wouldn’t go again.

Wow R321, that would drive me stark raving mad. Say what you want about the US, but one thing we do have is the best customer service in the world. It's part of the reason people hate us when we travel. We feel entitled to great service because it's the norm here. And it's shocking when you can't get it while on vacation and paying a premium for everything.

People in the US rage if they don't get their Amazon packages in two days. perfectly packed. If you are inconvenienced in any way, while shopping, retail stores give you coupons for free stuff. Have a bad experience at a restaurant? Your meal will be comped. If a service person treats you with anything other than smiling deference and respect, they will find themselves filmed via cell phone and going viral on Youtube within 24 hrs---their life ruined.

This thread is doing a lot to soothe the nagging feeling of guilt that I have over not traveling more extensively.

Too many people in this world. ELE is needed.

The reason that the US has the best customer service is that the workers are terrified of losing their jobs if they get a single complaint against them. No matter how unreasonable, the customer is always right. So those jobs are poorly paid with a high turnover.

We are so used to servile service workers that when we go to a country where retail clerks treat us like transactional equals, it seems rude. It may be brusque but it's not rude.

[Quote] It looks like the boxes Montreal came in. [/quote]

Haa! So true.

"Mosque of Ibn Tulun (which is almost 1200 years old) is perhaps the most perfect building I've ever seen."

Finally a building which mirrors your cavernous nostrils!

[quote]Cartagena, Columbia. Third World trash pot. Nothing to do and I got horrible diarrhea that lasted for days.

Well, if you had diarrhea that lasted for days, I guess you DID have something to do then.

As someone who lives in Ireland I can’t imagine why anyone would get private health insurance. The HSE is far FAR from perfect but I’ve managed fine on it so far and so have my two chronically ill, disabled grandparents. Its still vastly preferable than paying for insurance that barely gets you faster service. Plus all drugs costing more than 39.99 are free here and for over 65s they're altogether free. I get meds here for 29 bucks that cost me 700 dollars in the states.

[bold]Puerto Vallarta[/bold] it was not at all charming, it was run-down and dirty. The people were very nice, though.

[bold]Palm Springs[/bold] had 2 or 3 okay blocks to walk and a few of the restaurants were good, but otherwise it was tacky in spots and super boring.

[bold]Ft Lauderdale[/bold] was lame and the bugs were huge.

Thanks for the bold, R341. SO reader-friendly.

[QUOTE]People in the US rage if they don't get their Amazon packages in two days. perfectly packed. If you are inconvenienced in any way, while shopping, retail stores give you coupons for free stuff. Have a bad experience at a restaurant? Your meal will be comped. If a service person treats you with anything other than smiling deference and respect, they will find themselves filmed via cell phone and going viral on Youtube within 24 hrs---their life ruined.

And THAT'S why Americans are the angriest people in the world.

R343 Please tell me you live outside the US. If not, it sounds like you need to move.

No one has ever told me I'd love Phoenix, and no one ever will. What an ugly, unfriendly place. Scottsdale has no diversity - everyone's white, like a Trump rally.

Yes, Phoenix is the worst. An ugly sprawl and even the downtown they are trying to renew is now full of tacky apartment buildings full of white trash. Anywhere is better than Phoenix.

Toronto seemed very livable but it was boring to visit.

Toronto is simply a far more diverse, safer and even cleaner but FAR more boring version of Chicago. If you are asking someone what city is a great one to raise a family, providing that money is no objective, Toronto is a winner. But if you are asking me which one would you want to visit, I would recommend Chicago all the time. Chicago didn't fuck up its lakefront the way Toronot did. And in terms of architecture, Chicago blows Toronoto out of the water. What's truly ridiculous is that Tornto is now even more expensive than NYC. I don't think its worth it. Give me Montreal anyday.

I thoroughly enjoyed Dublin. Irish people are just lovely, and very friendly.

Dublin is architecturally uninteresting - largely thanks to the British colonialism. Ireland is really all about the countryside. The nature and the simple stone architecture meld together perfectly. Small town Ireland is the joy - which is true of a lot of Europe I guess. It Ireland in particular doesn’t do cities - or modernism - well.

r340 if you try to have a surgical procedure, good luck with waiting 3 years for the hospital. That's why you get private health insurance in Ireland. I'm not disputing the drug prices are vastly better for prescription drugs.

R197 You are an ignorant. Spain is the country with more and oldest heritage places in Europe, except for Italy. A country with a rich history, wonderful natural spaces, different ecosystems, etc. Too much for ignorant Americans, that's for sure. Go back to your wonderful America full of descendants of the criminal and retarded peasants Europe excreted. Walking its guettos, trailer parks and dirty and tacky cities must be delightful. The nerve you have pretending to be in a moral pedestal, when your country is the only western democracy enforcing death penalty. Not to mention the global ridicule your stupid gun laws cause when there is a mass shooting. In fact, you are mocked globaly for your stupidity.

Anyway, I suspect you have never been to Spain, nor France, otherwise you should have noticed than France has bullrings, and celebrate bullfights regularly.

r352 your rant might be more justified if you weren't slamming the U.S. with accusations that show you've never been there, either.

And she's accusing me of being American, which I most certainly am not...and yes, in fact, her whole rant seems to be about America.

[quote]Anyway, I suspect you have never been to Spain, nor France,

If I hadn't been, why would I write about having been? This doesn't make sense.

She's an idiot, calling me an idiot and I still stand by everything I said about how I feel about ghastly Spain.

[quote]How has LA improved in the past 20 years?

Air quality for one. Also, 20 years ago, downtown used to be scary, and a ghost town at night. It's still not perfect, but it's gotten MUCH better. The food scene has always been excellent, but it's gotten even better, and more diverse. The one BIG thing that's gotten much worse is traffic.

[quote]but the one place I will never, ever go back if I can possibly avoid it is Gary, Indiana. Fucking hellish.

Are you Rebbie or La Toya?

[quote]I can't remember the last time I saw a shell.

Here ya go, sweetie!

I never liked visiting LA because of the traffic. It's scary. The air pollution was a close second.

How do Angelenos cope with the traffic? Find a nice neighborhood and never venture out of it? That's probably what I would do.

[quote]How do Angelenos cope with the traffic? Find a nice neighborhood and never venture out of it? That's probably what I would do.

Yes, somewhere where you can walk around. I always liked Westwood, personally - but DL does not.

I don't know how people in LA ever make plans with their friends. In Chicago or Nyc, you can avoid traffic by taking transit but LA? There's no escaping it.

Even in London these days, I don't venture far. There's no pleasure in it.

R360 they are trying and building a subway but I am sure that is a drop in the bucket for their transit issues.

R362, it makes me genuinely wonder how people can ever make it anywhere on time. LA seems to have rush hour traffic at random times during the day.

R421 and 340 Ireland is a safe country-no terrorism. The air is unpolluted, the water clean. Rains like mad alot of the time, but there's great and affordable connectivity from the airports to the rest of the world. Postal system is great-next day delivery. Customs opens packages as they search for drugs and arms, and I'm fine with that. There is much underesourcing of certain areas such as the cops, so some develop an attitude, but those I have dealt with are hardworking men and women, and will do their best for you. The main issue in Ireland is we have a welfare/nanny state, where a large section of the population feel "entitled" to fucking everything, for free. Then the public service is mediocre and disinterested in change-the unions are too strong and have governments by the balls. We need a Margaret Thatcher for a couple of years to shake things up. Degrees of separation are negligible-you talk with someone and you have a mutual acquaintance in common somewhere. Superb education system, and the proof of that now becoming apparent. As EU member, healthcare across EU accessible to us all, as well as consular protection. I have private health insurance-cancer diagnosis for leukaemia on Friday, in hospital Sunday, chemo on Tuesday. No cost to me. Private room, private hospital. I keep my sanity but exiting 3-4 times a year for a week or so. Far from perfect, but better than most places. And we have a hot prime minister! Leo, if Matt dumps you, I'll be here.

Yes, Ireland has some good things about it. So what. It doesn't negate anything I said. And your gay prime minister is still a Tory-lite. Your nanny-state isn't the problem.

Really hated Vancouver, despite all the times people told me how awesome it is.

A lot of cookie cutter sky rise condos

People from LA who are there for a movie shoot and are coked up beyond belief talking about Hollywood. Go back then!

The main street at night is filled with trashy people who park their souped up cars on the fucking sidewalk.

Bars will only give you a THIMBLE full of alcohol in your cocktail. Very regulated, and they take it seriously.

Never had a great meal, despite trying to for many days.

People are totally flaky and self-absorbed.

Chicago has no neighborhood as pretty as the Annex or, despite those miles of beaches, as laid back as the Beachs. It's suburbs are tacky compared to say Minneapolis' or even Detroit's. That said, the city does have great architecture, although (and this is sacrilege but true), the whole city would look better if it were built out of the local bright yellow limestone than of dusky brown Chicago brown common brick and glass and steel. At one time Toronto had its own style: strictly modernist downtown (except for the gold dust in the Royal Bank's mirror glass), but strictly Victorian dark red brick oven everywhere else. Sadly, the opportunity was missed, partly because they were copying Chi-town. But nobody goes to T-O for the buildings anyway. They go for Canadian meat on the hoof, and I don't mean cattle. I mean the rockingest male bodies on the continent.

Stockholm.

I hated the food.

How stupid are people in Montreal? They built thousands of houses with exterior staircasesl In a place that rarely gets to October without snow.

I think the staircases are beautiful and probably allowed builders to maximize interior living space. I would rather have people ascending and descending outside of the building instead of in a stairway where every conversation and noise echoes through the place. I understand the slipping hazard but Montreal’s are likely used to it.

Deathtrap Montreal

Lol - that’s exactly the main thought I had in Montreal - WTF is with the sky high, metal (i.e, ice plated) steps to get in the front door. I thought maybe the snow gets so high it would block a ground level front door?

Was really disappointed with the architecture in Montreal. Had expected something French-lite. But except for a tiny street in old town, uninteresting bland American/Toronto facsimile. But a fun town.

Aside from Los Angeles, what American cities have the best suburbs?

The Boston suburbs aren't bad r373.

Philadelphia suburbs - the original

Hartford and New Haven - Ghetto AF. Dangerous, crime-ridden shitholes.

I’m a little amused at the people complaining about the hills in San Francisco. Do they also go to New York and complain about all the tall buildings?

In NYC, one does not have to climb over the tall buildings to get from A to B.

R376 yes!! Well, the East Rock neighborhood in New Haven was pleasant enough. Otherwise, nope. I did like the outlying suburbs especially along route 34 (?).

Yale has pretty architecture, and some of the city buildings (churches, apartments etc). But generally not a great vibe.

I think Hartford's capitol building might be my favorite in the country. It's gorgeous.

The Hartford Capitol building really is something, especially at night when it's all lit up. Unfortunately, the neighborhood around it is basically a third world country.

It reminds me of a building you'd see up in Quebec. Very lovely.

The Mark Twain House is great too.

Not LA of course.

They should make the steps out of metal mesh the way a lot of bridges are. Stops cars sliding around and reduces ice damage. But they don't.

You mean, other than Setauket? I'd say suburban Philadelphia. It's not even close. Second place would go to the little faux-Tudor "villages" from the 20s and 30s scattered around the country (particularly thickly in Westchester County NY), sometimes in really odd places like Avondale Estates, Georgia; and all of them representing collectively a road not taken: a missed chance at upper middle class cohesion on a higher cultural plane than America was ready for.

Life on the Mainline

I was just in Charleston, SC. on business, and while parts of the city are quite lovely, well, add it to the list of places with creepy undertones. Some parts are beautiful and there's some excellent restaurants, but the shadow of the slave-ridden past is heavy and it doesn't seem like the present is all that prosperous outside of the tourist zones. I actually had a much better time visiting some of the local swamp reserves than in the city itself.

I don't think I'll ever visit New Orleans. I don't think I'd like it one bit.

r385 those were my feelings exactly about Charleston, SC. Very lovely city to look at, but there's just something "off" about it. Something kind of creepy.

386 posts and no dragging on Milan? It deserves plenty.

Just a big industrial city with a Fascist train station. Ugh.

DL travellers please share opinions about Sardinia and South Korea, please.

R388 here. Sorry, I put in an extra "please".

R386, I hadn't been to the Deep South before, that was certainly part of it. But I've been to 40-odd US states and 4 continents, and I don't think I've ever experienced a shadow-of-the-past quite like it. Everything seems to date from the slave era, physically and culturally, like the aquarium is the only tourist attraction that didn't date from or celebrate the Antebellum era. It's very disturbing to look at the beautiful old buildings and gardens and wonder how much of them was made by slave labor, at least for me, it makes the place feel haunted.

But I was there for business, not because I like that sort of thing. And yeah, the swamps outside the city were absolutely fascinating, so my free time wasn't wasted.

Well R387 - To sure anyone says “you’ll love it” about Milan - unlike, say, Venice. But you are right - for a fashion capital, it’s 90% ugly. And uglier than Rome or Florence definitely.

[quote]How stupid are people in Montreal? They built thousands of houses with exterior staircasesl In a place that rarely gets to October without snow.

Like in London they used to have open deck buses. Whose idea was that?

It's more than slavery. During the first generation of its existence, the death rate in Charleston was 30% per year. Floods, fires, Indian wars, epidemics, duels, hurricanes, earthquakes, pirates, invastions, riots, crime, bad food, dirty water, you name it, they've had it. Jamestown had it worse of course, but nobody lives there now. Charleston people live surrounded by a miasma of decay, death, and evil.

Yeah - Milan is probably one of the ugliest cities on the planet. But I've never heard of anyone 'rave' about it and say that you'd love it. Almost everyone is unanimous - it's ugly and dirty with very few redeeming qualities. Oh, there's the Cathedral - fine.

Well, speaking of decay, death, and evil, would someone be a dear and write up New Orleans?

I don't think Milan is so bad. I liked it very much. It's not "Venice pretty" - but it doesn't pretend to be.

[quote]Yeah - Milan is probably one of the ugliest cities on the planet.

Nonsense

[quote]Yeah - Milan is probably one of the ugliest cities on the planet.

Yeah - right

More Milan beauty

[quote]Yeah - Milan is probably one of the ugliest cities on the planet.

Moron!

Oh can it - look up Milan and ugly and there are a ton of articles about it. Maybe it has cleaned up a bit in the past few years, but when I was there in early 2000's it was a pit. Yes, the park is nice and the galleria, but the rest was a lot of overgrown grass and weeds, dirty buildings and graffiti everywhere.

It's not a DL -specific opinion. It is a commonly shared opinion in the world.

Oh, the fuglinesss of Milan

[quote]It's not a DL -specific opinion. It is a commonly shared opinion in the world.

That it's "Yeah - Milan is probably one of the ugliest cities on the planet"?

I don't think so.

It's also >

Even the train station is beautiful in Milan.

Outside and in.

Milan is also famous for its interior design.

Some of the most beautiful hotels in the world are in Milan.

I stayed at Hotel Principe di Savoia in Milan

One of the best hotles I've ever stayed in.

This is where I took breakfast.

Many of the hotels represent the stylishness of Milan.

I hope the guy from the Milan Board of Tourism is getting paid overtime, for working on a Saturday night.

Such ugliness. I feel sick.

"Les Grandissimes" by George Washington Cable, published in 1880, one of the greatest unheralded classics of American literature, does a capital sendup of New Orleans culture in the matter of decay, death, and evil.

Cable's book inspired the first opera to use African music, Koanga.

New Orleans, Las Vegas, and Paris

This thread she be retitled "places to hate an the reasons why"

No one has ever told me that I'd LOVE Hartford, Connecticut.

What is that city even mentioned here?

Melbourne and Sydney. Twin shitholes.

Odd - many people told how wonderful Sydney is.

I've been to New Orleans twice. For me, it's the classic "ok to visit, wouldn't want to live there." The French Quarter is what - a square mile? All the famous bars and streets. It's a place to spend a weekend (no more than two nights) and pick up tourist trinkets. You don't vacation there.

New York has some good suburbs. There are even some good suburbs inside the city - parts of Queens, Staten Island (ok, SI isn't *really* NY) and Brooklyn (the flatbush Victorians, parts of Bay Ridge).

The suburbs up along the Hudson are beautiful, many of them, give or take a Yonkers and parts of White Plains.

Long Island though...

The Chicago suburbs along the lake are beautiful. And Oak Park is fantastic. Schaumburg has great Indian food. That's all I can think of for now.

Pretty hilarious seeing American’s criticising any other nation’s health service. Trust me you’d rather have no health insurance in Ireland than in the States.

Of all the American cities I’ve visited, Seattle had the most interesting suburbs. Oklahoma city and surrounds was pretty lousy if memory serves. Gallup New Mexico was full of bad tempered assholes. Like the entire town had PMS.

Some posters are missing the title of the thread...

No one ever said "OMG come to Hartford CT, you'll love it!"

422 posts & I don't think anyone has yet mentioned the most overrated city of all: NEW YORK

South Africans love to tell you all the horror stories about the dystopian war zone they live in and then say ' You HAVE to visit! You'll LOVE it! Its so BEAUTIFUL!"

Any of you ever go there and survive to tell the tale?

Nobody goes to New York not knowing what to expect. I think many have trepidation, but go because of the bucket list. It's not about expecting it to be wonderful. It's visiting Ground Zero, oh, there's the Empire State Building and here's Rock Center, hey, we rode the subway and were in Central Park, and then there's all the different places different tourists from different countries favor. I hear a lot of languages going back and forth on the F train from Brooklyn to mid-town, often the people are wearing big backpacks and shorts, so it's not new residents.

I wouldn't blame anyone for being disappointed, but I don't think many people have the "It's going to be fabulous!" expectation. It's the stuff I listed above, then throw in a few restaurants and maybe Broadway (and Williamsburg, and DUMBO). I personally feel that New York City has lost its connection with the past - the streets don't have the "feel" they used to. Even stuff long gone in the theatre district, or landmarks, or neighborhoods, used to carry the vibe of the past. IMO, a lot of those layers have just been killed off. The landmark is just a place - has no resonance. Maybe everything's been commodified to death, maybe it's just NY falling victim to the generic blight that has afflicted all international cities - London, Paris, etc. I felt the same thing in Paris last year. It should be it's not just the place itself, but "This is where this happened." or "This is where so and so used to..." even though the places remain, IMO the resonance has disappeared.

[quote]422 posts & I don't think anyone has yet mentioned the most overrated city of all: NEW YORK

Oh, I don't think it is AT ALL.

It's the most extraordinary place. The look of it alone.

NYC is dirty. Garbage piled up everywhere.

NYC is not as filthy as SF.

Santa Fe is like Capri. At first the touristy elements are a turn off, then it grows on you. Capri is magic, especially at night. The food is great and the island has zero crime. Santa Fe smells wonderful with all the pinon wood burning. It also has no mosquitos and wonderful weather. 4 seasons, but lighter. Winter not so harsh, Summer can be cool at night. Very zen and calming. The people are also quite friendly and welcoming as if they are happy to be there and are willing to share their joy with you. Very sophisticated, wonderful opera, the third biggest art market in the world, and a great place for an affluent over 50 year old to retire. Bets the hell out of Palm Springs.

Somebody out there has clearly triggered a fan of Milan.

Personally, I found Milan a bit dull. Definitely a place to visit if you're into fashion and power shopping. But dear fucking god the stores are expensive.

My favorite thing about Milan was the restaurant with the GIGANTIC sign in front (in English) saying "ITALIAN FOOD". I did not eat there.

I have to put in a good word for Rome. I am the poster who didn't care for Florence, and I was apprehensive about what Rome would be like, as I had heard mixed things and that the air pollution was off the charts. Instead I absolutely loved it. It really is like no other city i the world and it was interesting to visit and experience places like the American Academy that were nearly tourist-free.

Milan has a bad rep, but I have seen a book recently on its post-war architecture that made me wonder if it might not be due a reappraisal like that accorded to Palm Springs in terms of Modernism.

I have never been to New Orleans, but my siblings have and all of them loved it. I don't think I could live there due to the climate, but it sounds fascinating.

[quote]Santa Fe smells wonderful with all the pinon wood burning.

I LOVE that smell. It's top of my list to go there.

In the meantime, I'll have to make do with THIS >

Santa Fe is great for Saturday morning strolls but when the sun goes down you better haul your ass to funky downtown Albuquerque. The 2 gay bars in Central Ave are fun.

[quote]My favorite thing about Milan was the restaurant with the GIGANTIC sign in front (in English) saying "ITALIAN FOOD". I did not eat there.

OMG -- do they have an Olive Garden?

r388 I lived in South Korea for a number of years.

It is incredibly modern, but incredibly provincial at the same time. Old men and women hating foreigners, outdated social 'rules' lack of understanding about anything outside their comfort zone. The North has the Kims to worship and the South has money.

Seoul is fun. Easy to get around, lots of shopping, some fun nightlife. Very boozy.

Outside of Seoul is not very interesting, by which I mean a lot of countries very close to Korea do it a lot better. The beaches aren't great, the nature's not that great, the temples aren't that great, the culture isn't that interesting.

If you want to visit a fun fast paced city Seoul is fine. I'd personally rather go to Hong Kong.

OMG - sorry for the overly harsh Milan comments. In retrospect, excessively harsh. A pretty, classical city adapted to Western capitalism’s needs for orderliness, cleanliness and functionality.

The Sahara Desert - very beige.

Santa Fe is VERY cold in the winter.

Amsterdam - the city centre has become a tourist trap, too crowded, too many pot shops, too many drunk tourists who just come to party and get pissed and vomit the streets, no thanks New York - depressing, workaholic, overheated, everyone's always busy, not a relaxing place at all Venice, Italy -way too crowded Florence -the next Venice

Santa Fe - very biege

R373, Why the hijack?

Read the thread title, people. Nobody ever said, "OMG, you have to see" Toronto, Phoenix, ....."

NYC isn't about its sidewalks, although the decorated windows at Christmas are fun to walk by (Fifth Ave, especially). I'm in PA and just became a member of the Metropolitan Museum of Art, because I've finally realized what a treasure is a short bus ride away.

And seriously, aside from Singapore, where is it pristine?

Museo Jumex - very beige.

If you think Santa Fe smells good, try Cedar Rapids, Iowa.

Quaker Oats makes its oatmeal there and Cedar Rapids has lovely oatmeal scented breezes.

(It's not much, but what else does Iowa really have to offer?)

I'd think that Iowa would smell like slaughterhouses, due to all the meat packing.

People in Iowa are very friendly, not in a mannered and overly "polite" way. They are genuine. Also, Des Moines is a pretty nice small city. I'd rather live in Iowa anyday over Indiana, the armpit of America that mixes the worst of the south with the worst of the midwest.

R443 you reminded me about Edinburgh. Drive in from the west and you pass a cookie factory (literally smelling cookies) then a couple of breweries. They smell like warm buttered wheat toast. I was starving before I got to the hotel.

I’m with you, R72. I spent a month in Capri one week. Clogged with tourists. Even the out of the way sea spots were over crowded and not enough boats to rent or hire to get off that scar.

I meant R76. Sorry

We LOVED it.

Is Ischia a better option if you are around Naples?? Or should one go to the Amalfi coast?

R424 I went to South Africa. Amazing place. Johannesburg was dangerous. The office of my company there basically drove me to and from the office and said not to be out after dark. Cape Town was fine. Durban was a little more interesting but mostly fine. I think if you stay out of Johannesburg and any bad areas, you’ll be fine. There were definitely moments in the country towns where vigilance was necessary (we drove through the country).

If you’re scared of crime stay in Cape Town or take a tour.

For the post that asked. Sardinia is just a typical Italian Island, bit expensive, but nothing to offend and larger than you would think.

Make sure you are going to land at the correct airport. Olbia or Alghero are in the North and Cagliari is in the South, transfer times are very long if you go to the wrong one.

Gotta love all the TOURISTS complaining about all the tourists.

R454 Right? It's been making me chuckle the entire thread. Tourists bitching about crowds of other tourists during tourist seasons in areas that cater to tourists.

Like the old Woody Allen joke about the old ladies at the Catskills resort.

Lady One: "Oy Vey! The food at this resort is TERRIBLE!"

Lady Two: "I know what you mean! And, such small portions!!!"

It's so crowded nobody goes there anymore.

[quote]I'd think that Iowa would smell like slaughterhouses, due to all the meat packing.

The immediate area around slaughterhouses is, smellwise, hell on earth. Not as many slaughterhouses as farms though.

And the gigantic chicken and cattle ranches, esp. in the summer, reek of cow piss and chicken shit.

And there's absolutely nothing to do there.

Otherwise Iowa is just fine. And hey, at least it's not Indiana.

A relative of mine and his wife are currently living in Des Moines and they say it's much nicer than people would think.

Places that I visited recently and liked...Iceland, Slovenia, Williamsburg. I like places where the people are smart and you can sense it when you visit. The worst is a place like South Beach which used to be cool and is now a tacky, seedy mess.

Seattle

Let's face it: Nothing lives up to the hype. One man's trash is another man's treasure.

Nothing lives up to the hype except for Iguasu Falls, Brasil, Chamonix/Mt. Blanc, France and the sunsets over the Aegean. And by the way, I loved Athens.

Boston is a great city. Vibrant, alive, great architecture and food. If you're staying in the city, do not rent a car. You will not be able to maneuver the traffic or figure out directions.

South Beach was seedy, then hip, now back to seedy. It always was> seedy

South Beach is full of straight douchebros.

Mid Beach is way better and calmer with nicer hotels. However, it is a fucking rip off.

R422: "Trust me you’d rather have no health insurance in Ireland than in the States."

So true. I have been the recipient of Irish medical care in an emergency and I was very grateful. But if you have good health insurance - and, at least as important, access to first-class care because it can vary so much, even in the same city - I'd much rather be in the US because this is where you get treated, then and there, when you need it. No idea about Ireland, but Canadian friends tell me they will wait as long as a year for procedures that are scheduled that same week here in the States. I understand both the necessity of the waits - not enough beds or docs because, essentially, there's not enough capacity in the system - and for the high costs of care here because the system is largely unregulated.

But when it's your hip that needs replacing, waiting ten or twelve months in, say, Calgary isn't that great when you know it would be done next week in Minneapolis. Waiting your turn is great in theory but not so much when you're in so much pain you can't stand up for more than ten minutes.

If you have money, the US is the place to be for health care. If you are just getting by, probably better of in Ireland. But yeah - the waits are insane and I think as an American I would be really frustrated about the service level.

OP: Why the fuck would you have to hyphenate La Rochelle?

because it used to be a blocked word, R468

as was Davida.

Athens--a dump

Austin--Nice for a business trip but decades past its prime

San Antonio--wasn't expecting much and it definitely didn't live up to that

Atlanta--can never live up to its own hype

Savannah--just kindof dull; Charleston is more interesting and has better restaurants

Portland---rather small and oddly spreadout

Austins "weird" vibe moved out to Marfa and that area and we have the PNW now.

R470 - Portland OR or ME? Going to OR in 2 weeks and debating how long to stay in Portland.

Portland ME is a lovely, quaint town.

R472

Three or four days, max. You can see it in less time - I'm talking "in-depth."

Thx R474 - now thinking a weekend in Portland then head to Cannon Beach

[quote]Portland ME is a lovely, quaint town.

I'll have to go. I've never been to ME, you know.

^^^the subtle whoring is pretty subtle, though....

Portland as in OR is a disappointing. The one in Maine is nice little city.

Another vote for SF. By the end of it I was actually asking myself, "This? This is a *city*?" No, sorry, it was nothing to write home about at all.

Portland Oregon can easily be done in two days/nights. Same for Seattle.

And, I say this as a resident of one and fan of both. Lovely places but really not THAT much to see and do that can't be handled in a weekend.

You go to the Pacific NW for scenic beauty: mountains, woods, seashore. Not city life.

Sedona, Arizona. No thanks.

I've been able to find things to like in most places, except for San Jose

Funny, as I've got a lot of friends in San Jose.

Why does OP have to hyphenate La Rochelle?

Okay, now I get why. Wow.

R451, I've not been to Ischia, but I can assure you you wouldn't want to miss the Amalfi coast, down to Sorrento. Amalfi's setting and its cathedral are spectacular.

Cape Cod. So insular. Unwelcoming to outsiders. Meh.

Rome..rotting and full of tourists and it smells bad.

Washington DC. Parts of it are a third world country.

Paris is pretty and OK and the French are OK too, but unless there are a number of interesting exhibits on I can't find much to do. It is as much a victim of chain stores as anywhere else, so much of the shopping you can do at home.

As for the food, the street food/inexpensive food isn't that good, you have to go to very specific places. Most of the cafes are meeting spots where people will drink coffee or have a glass of wine before moving elsewhere. If you want to sit down for a salad or a sandwich or a light meal in one, it wont' be that good. The restaurants are great, but again, you have to research in advance, you can't drop in for a meal at a corner bistro and expect good food. Even the Marais is full of shitty tourist traps.

I agree that South Beach was a grimy dump

I love all these places (including Cedar Rapids with its island in the river and loads of old diners). Some of you are just miserable. I mean who goes to New Orleans not expecting to see poverty? Who goes to SF not expecting a business-like commercial city? Who goes to Ireland and expects sunshine?

Datalounge

Cabo - I don't understand the appeal. The two cities are the biggest tourist traps you've ever seen. All of the resorts are on one super long road with a view of only the water - just a blue line - no other features to look at since it's at the bottom of the peninsul. The cities are very far apart and the flat ride fee to/from the airport was obscenely high.

Unless you like to stay at a hotel and drink on the beach, there's nothing special. I don't understand why anyone would go there.

Glad you liked Ohio R103; were you staying at Salt Fork Lodge? If so, it's quite lovely.

Pretty funny that the capital of the US is one of the most dangerous cities out there.

r496. Yess I went there with my boyfriend and thought it would be an interesting experience but it was from it. Rude people, shitty restaurants and ugly ugly buildings

Petra in Jordan is a unique wonder as well