Game of Thrones - Season 9

Here's the pre-season 8 chat thread.

First half of 2019 sounds good to me. I've got a bad feeling about those prequels, though.

Ha! Casey Bloys is trending on Twitter right now because of his updates. Here are some of them:

[quote]- Confederate = still dead - Westworld: “Even the people who dislike it like to talk about it & how much they dislike it” - Veep S7 production = this fall - True Detective S3 = early 2019 - GoT prequel production = ~January

Good riddance to Confederate.

Oh, and Deadwood the movie starts filming in October. That was trending today as well.

[quote]"I have a newsflash: Meryl Streep is very, very good [in Big Little Lies]." - HBO prez Casey Bloys

Yeah, no shit, homo.

Lost interest after season three. Have not watched since then. All I want to know is what became of the cute baby dragons.

Each season used to premiere in April, so I'm guessing this'll be the case next year.

This is the last season right?

r7 Correct.

Predictions?

I say Dany wins the throne but then realizes it's not a good thing and abdicates.

Jon dies for good.

Cersei has the choice to run away with Jamie but chooses power and dies brutally but maybe bravely too. The writers like her

Tyrion becomes king

The throne is destroyed and Tyrion guides Westeros towards democracy

Though I really wish he would die

It's Season 8 OP.

And we are down to weeks now! April 14th the final six episodes. I feel cheated. Season 7 had 7 episodes and this last one has six. So in reality it's really the second half of Season 7. People are spouting theories all over the internet about how it will end. My own theory is that everyone dies. The world ends. The dead inherit the world.

I do wonder if we will get one last ass shot of Jon Snow before he turns into an icicle.

Six episodes? What the fuck? They could’ve easily gotten 10 or 13 more out of this story.

I agree, R13. I've read that each episode will be about 90 minutes.

Who cares. Margaery is dead and Cersei has lived wayyyyy too long. Shows get boring when the villains (Lannisters) continue to survive inexplicable odds. Much less the heroes (Danaerys and the Dothraki).

Let the show die already.

I have no problem with the season coming to an end. BUt I resent the fact that they are limiting the number of episodes and I agree there is more story to tell and things seem rushed. I've been watching Season 6 & 7 to review, and they packed way too much story in there to move things along. You just know that there are going to be a lot of familiar faces among the zombies. For sure, Hodor is going to break hearts as he trudges along with his new buddies. I thought it was cheating to have The Blackfish die off screen. Same with Stannis. Have to wonder if they'll show up.

To the guy who wanted to know what became of the baby dragons... they became great big scary adult dragons.

And to the guy who thinks Tyrion is going to guide Westeros to democracy... HAH! Nobody in Westeros has any idea democracy exists except Danerys, and that only occurred to her because she decided she didn't want to rule herself. No, if the Iron Throne is destroyed and the monarchy ends, Westeros will go back to seven kingdoms that are eternally at war with each other. The place is actually better off with a king or queen than with seven kings and a million warlords, if there's a central government then there's a bit less pointless slaughter.

Kit Harington told his wife the end, and what happens to Jon Snow, and she didn't speak to him for three days afterwards. She was that upset.

It was misquoted. He told her the ending of Season 7 because she kept asking. Then got mad when he finally told her. He, consequently, has told no one the ending of the series, no matter how much they ask.

All I know is that crazy bitch ass Cersei better die and die horribly.

I'm pretty sure she wins the game and sits on the iron throne... to rule over a devastated land where most people are dead due to the ice-zombies.

[quote]Six episodes? What the fuck? They could’ve easily gotten 10 or 13 more out of this story.

Just enjoy that it'll be longer and the end comes quick. Relax, lay back and hope for a happy ending.

GRRM said the ending would be "bittersweet." So I'm guessing that a lot of people will die, and we will feel bad about it, but then some will live and that will make us feel better. Like maybe Jon finally dies and Dany becomes queen. Or Dany dies and Jon becomes king. Or they both die, and Tyrion becomes King. Or Arya becomes queen, or Sansa, or Jaime becomes King, or Brienne survives and marries Tormund and they raise giants. Or Maybe Bronn gets with Sansa. Or maybe Gendry gets with Sansa. Or maybe Arya gets with Gendry. Or maybe King Tyrion gets with his wife Sansa. Or maybe we get to see The Hound kill The Mountain. Or maybe Qyburn IS the Night king. Or maybe Brann IS the Night King. Or maybe the whole world becomes a Zombie Kingdom and it ends with everyone having blue eyes. Or maybe Euron Greyjoy gets with Cersei and they rule after they kill everyone who is left.

I base this on leaks.....

Jon, Daeneres, Arya and Sansa meet at the diner and the screen goes black.

R24, LOLOLOL!

I'm willing to bet that Tyrion is going to betray Dany and Jon. Last scene in last season, when he was standing in the dark, in the hallway watching Jon go to her and they were fucking. He was so jealous. As if. But more important, he knew he'd lose his grip on Dany if she listened to Jon more than to him. I think Tyrion really hoped to be king. To be regent for his nephew. As far as he knows, Cersei is pregnant and Dany can't have kids. He's been scheming ever since he discovered Cersei was pregnant.

They have to do something besides have zombies chase people for 6 episodes.

So Game of Thrones got out of preparing a trailer for Superbowl and instead piggy-backed on a Budweiser commercial? Cheap Bastards. Although it was clever marketing for a show that really needs no advertising.

They do need advertising, it's been too years. they have to rebuild all that hype

Game of Thrones does not need to advertise, everyone that has followed the show so far will want to tune into the last season.

R26 . No. Tyrion appeared sad and dejected. He knows that Jon Snow is not what he seems, and that the union will end in sorrow and death.

Are there Vegas odds on who lives/dies?

I think Cersei lives. I think Sansa dies

I think Sansa is going to live. I think Dan Weiss and David Benioff and GRRM have piled so much shit on Sansa, that they better not do anything else.It's like Sansa has been through some shit and enough is enough. I want her to find love. I was hoping Gendry. Because you know Arya is not the kind of person who will marry. She likes this new line of work she trained for. I do have to wonder what happens to her when there are no more enemies to kill? Unfortunately, I think Arya may not make it out of the final season. And I know. She has had a horrific time too.

Meh, I don't care for Sansa. Never did. If they off her, I'm fine with it. Frankly, the only ones I really need to see survive are Tyrion, Jamie, Bronn, the dude with the red hair/beard, the tall woman and Arya. Even Jon and Dany I couldn't give a shit about.

R33, I don't think Jaime and Bronn are going to make it.

They better, R34! So help me!

But if Jamie doesn't live, I'm prepared to say that he had a beautiful ass, but couldn't live forever.

Bronn will make it. Jamie will be killed by Cersei who will then realize she has no one and die.

Sansa will probably survive. GRRM aside, the show writers don't seem to enjoy killing fan favorites who have been built up

I’m shipping Podrick and Sansa. That’s already been teased. It’d be weird with Gendry (although I don’t necessarily see Arya and him together either).

I think the “bittersweet ending” will be the Whitewalkers are defeated but all the dragons die and other important characters. I’d rather Jon survive, but I think it will be Dany (who then has his kid). Can’t make predictions for others except Cersei finally has to go too. Jamie will do it. (I hope.)

I want Jaime and Brienne to survive. I was thinking. Last season, in the big battle for the loot train, after Jaime kills Olenna and takes all her gold, remember when Bronn was shooting those giant arrows at Dany's dragon? I think that was a foreshadowing. I think Bronn is going to be shooting giant arrows made of dragonglass at the Night King and his dragon. If they don't work that into the final season they're dumb. I see Arya killing Qyburn, then pretending to be him and killing Cersei.

You know, I don't see the point of the Greyjoys. If Theon's who plot arc was to save Sansa, then he did and great. Over. And the Boltons are gone. OK. Euron is on the scene. But isn't he Cersei's problem?

Euron exists so the Lannisters have an ally.

Rather than the Lannister army alone it was the Lannister Army + the Greyjoy fleet. Now apparently he is off to hire a mercenary army from Essos so the Lannisters have more troops.

[quote]I see Arya killing Qyburn, then pretending to be him and killing Cersei.

Take it back, I’d much rather see that than Jamie ending Cersei. Cersei is the biggest hit on Arya’s list, and she needs to be “a faceless man” once more.

I’m disinterested in any Iron Islands alumni too. Always was, but especially now with so much left to cover with 6 episodes left (regardless of each being the length of a movie).

I am pretty sure GRRM is intending that Jaime will kill Cersei based on the prophecy. So I think the show will probably do the same thing.

So much happened that I don't even recall the prophecy. What was it? I know the part about all of her kids dying. What part involves him killing her?

R 43 Yes, that’s why I first mentioned it. I vaguely recalled it’s in the books that Jamie kills Cersei. (Or is it simply said it’s a brother. Can’t recall.) It’d be interesting to see Arya able to sport Cersei’s face and where that could lead. If Jamie kills Cersei, not sure how that could happen. Arya’s got to have one more good faceless encounter.

I think the prophecy was that a brother would kill he and sh assumed it was Tyrion, which was one of her reasons for despising him

Arya is the youngest so her or Tyrion killing Cersei would fulfill the prophecy, but more to the point, the TV show ignored that part of the book. When young Cersei visits the Witch who tells her all three of her kids will die, the witch never mentions anything about how Cersei will die. It was cut out. So it leaves room for Arya to do it. As far as I'm concerned I hope Jaime never sees Cersei again. I loved it when he walked out and left her. Nicolaj Coster Waldau talked about that. He said he was so happy for Jaime, and WTF took him so long.

Jaime loses his loyalty to Cersei earlier in the books, he is actually quite pissed when he learns Cersei was cheating on him and he goes off on his own journey.

That is why NCW was annoyed, he knew Jaime was no longer Cersei's errand boy at this point but the show changed it.

To be fair to the show writers Jamie does nothing of consequence while he's off adventuring so it would have been hard to keep him in the show at all

R5: They grew up to be big, powerful adult dragons. I love them too and dreading last season (sniff).

Spoilers!!

Night King is killed and his entire wight horde drops *dead* at the same time.

Wight Viserion kills Rhaegal dragon in epic battle. Drogon kills Viserion.

Dany dies in childbirth, but her daughter lives and survives to the end.

Cersei miscarries and is tricked/killed by Arya wearing a different face. Arya survives to the end.

Jamie dies in Brienne's arms (or the other way around).

Drogon dies in the finale (combo of being mortally injured with spears from army and fire blast under the city). The same fire blast will kill Jon and other favs.

I wonder what huge revelations, twists, or surprises await us.

We must come back and see whose predictions were accurate!

At this point, the only thing I want to see is Brienne succumbing to Tormund's charms. Girl, let him climb that mountain!

I was shipping Brienne and Sansa, but I'm willing to let Brienne have Jamie or Tormund, and match Sansa with Podrick. If any girl ever needed the magic!

And yes, Sansa is 99% sure to survive, because there will always be a Stark at Winterfell and she's a much better bet to carry on the line than Arya or Bran. Bran can't reproduce and is goint to leave this plane of mortal existence somehow, and Arya isn't the marrying kind. And she's taken power from a death cult, they aren't just going to let her walk away and be happy.

When does the series finale air? I'm off to Chile in July, don't make me cancel my trip!

r30, I think R26 had the right of it. Tyrion liked Jon Snow when he was a green boy, but if Dany starts to rely on Jon's council over Tyrion's, he will feel threatened. He believes in Dany and the vision of her rule, but make no mistake, he wants the power of being her Hand and having influence over the 7 Kingdoms. It's the ultimate fuck-you to his father and sister and everyone in KL. I didn't believe the betrayal leaks/predictions at first, but they've gained a hold on me over the last few months.

I really miss the Tyrion of S1-5. He's gotten so full of himself and is just boring. Those scenes of him lounging around with Missandei and Greyworm were brutal. But the idea of him becoming the antagonist in the final chapters makes sense.

I want Jon and Arya to live, but they will be in the thick of the fighting and in more danger. Either Jon was brought back from the dead in order to defeat the NK, at which time is purpose is done - OR - he was brought back to fulfill the prophecy and rule the 7K for a reign of peace and prosperity. I mean, A Dream of Spring is obviously an ending of hope. I like the notion of Jon's resurrection brought about by magic of the NK instead of the LoL. That would be a twist.

I love Bran and find his character the most tragic of all, so I think he's somewhat doomed and is likely to be a sacrifice in the fight for the Dawn. Its either him or Jon that will face off with the NK. I don't buy the theory of Bran as NK at all.

I don't really care one way or another if Sansa dies or lives, but I could see the value in her surviving and being capable enough to rebuild the North. There has to be something behind her "I'm a slow learner, but I learn". I do want to see her develop closer bonds to her kin in the final season. I need my Starks as a united front. I want to see her support Jon even when she finds out he's Targaryen. I think they've had an interesting story arc, being brought back together thinking they're the only family each has left, even though they were never close. The tense relationship worked, but they have also learned to respect each other.

I think Arya killing Cersei with someone else's face would be cheesy, but that's just me. I wouldn't mind seeing sexy Jaqen H'qar though.

I SO want Arya to kill Cersei!

And I agree that I want to see the Starks present a united front, even though under normal circumstances in Westeros, Sansa would be scheming to get rid of the bastard usurper and claim her birthright as Queeninthenorth, but the army of the dead is coming. They're going to need Jon the warrior, Sansa the politician, Bran the prophet, and Arya the assassin... and a new in-law with some dragons and armies.

Or Sansa killing Cersei!

I think as far as the narrative structure goes, Theon and Yara have outlasted their usefulness.

Speaking of Theon, I wish the poor lad could get his manhood restored by Qyburn… assuming Qyburn has those level of skills. Bring new meaning to a magic cock! That’s not happening of course, but ya gotta feel sorry for the guy.

Just me? Yeah, probably. Theon did a lot of fucked up things, and I don’t even think he’s hot. I’ve really never cared about the Iron Islands and its people. Let Yara rule it, but I feel pretty meh about any of its storylines.

I want Cersei to kill the Stark girls.

The actor who plays Theon is fantastically good. Doubt he'll live but I hope he saves his sister and redeems himself.

I think Theon is actually the most interesting character/storyline, also best written in the books. Unfortunately there probably won't be much about him, it would highly prefer it to what we are likely to get. This is a character I can really root for, because he really, really had to work and suffer for it.

I don't like Dany, I do like Jon okay, but both are getting painfully bland. Those bitches never experienced a real obstacle in their lives, they are just written to show up and win.

The Lannisters are fun, of course and I usually like the Stark girls, even though Arya was horribly written last season.

Theon needs to survive and rule the Island IMO. What is dead may never die or something. Yara is just a supporting character in his storyline.

I predict the blue tiger will marry the red tiger and then they'll have a purple baby tiger.

They can jam colored tigers in there. Why not? Just have one of the tigers say, "The night is dark and full of terrors" and it all blends in.

Time for your meds, R64?

In any narrative secondary characters are there to advance the story. So Theon was presented as someone very close to the Stark family but not part of it. The tension between Jon and Theon was always there, and there was a love/hate thing going on with him and Robb. He needed to prove he was a big shot. At first when Caitlyn said, "Never trust a Greyjoy," I felt she was too hard on the unlovable Theon. But then, when he turns on Robb, and takes Winterfell, it was utterly believable that he would do that, because of what we'd already seen of him. He advanced Robb's storyline, and then later he advanced the storyline of Sansa. He's a loose end that needs to be tied down. I'm another one who never cared for the Iron Islands crew. Never interested me. But Alfie Allen plays Theon brilliantly.

A lot of people believe Tyrion Lannister is going to turn and betray Dany. I find that believable from narrative stand point, because it enhances the story and makes it more than a "Zombies are coming!"cliche' But I have to ask myself, Has Tyrion shown any glimpses of a character who'd do that? Jaime is not a betrayer. He is loyal to his family, to a fault. His father and sister are horrible, but his love and loyalty to them is undeniable. He loves Tyrion enough to help him escape a death sentence.

Does Tyrion possess the same kind of family loyalty? I think he does. But unlike Jaime, Tyrion also loves power, and it'll be interesting to see how his character evolves this Season. Whatever happens, the pattern of behavior and the clues have been set out. There's not a lot of time left for any big changes to Tyrion's character. Tyrion won't be able to do a huge 360. He will just have to carry out his narrative arc to it's conclusion and we have to figure out what it is. I think he will betray, but he will do it for reasons he believes are right. Maybe setting something in motion that ends up being wrong headed and not realizing it until it's too late. I see it in the way he relates to Cersei vs. the way he relates to Dany. Cersei he both fears and respects, and he also knows his brother loves her which matters to him. Tyrion loves Jaime above all. Dany he claims to admire, but she needs his guidance and he approves of her actions when "she listens to his advice". Both women worry him.

Honestly I just hope the final season is intelligently written. I thought the writing last season was shockingly poor.

Totally agree with your analysis [R65]. When Tyrion saw the dead Lannister soldiers he was obviously conflicted. Judging by the look of anguish on his face, he was upset seeing Jon head into Dany's room and all that that implied. Was it because he was jealous of Jon or because he saw the diminishing of his influence over Dany?

We never heard the end of his conversation with Cersei last season.

When the FUCK with GRRM release the next fucking book? How many years has he been working on it?!?

Tyrion won't betray Dany, the entire point of the last 3 seasons was bringing them together

[quote] He advanced Robb's storyline, and then later he advanced the storyline of Sansa.

This is based on books in which Theon is a PoV character and Robb is not. Also Sansa never enters Theon's storyline (again in the books). So your analysis can not be right. That was not originally the point of Theon's character. The tension with Jon part is correct.

In the show Cersei is FAR more competent and successful than the books and I've never really embraced it

GRRM has been struggling with this story after book 3 when had to abandon his original 5 year jump, it has expanded outside of his control and gotten bigger and more complex than he anticipated.

Supposedly there are two books left but I don't see how he could even finish it in 2 books. I think we will get one more book out of him and that will be it.

Though I do look forward to that book.

I'm not referring to the books and you know it. We're talking about Season 9 (actually it's 8) of Game of Thrones on HBO. I was giving my own personal analysis of the narrative structure, looking at various characters. It's not about being wrong, asshole. You can agree or not. You want to start thread about books vs TV show, go ahead.

I hope Dany dies a painful death

R74 Dany has helped tens of thousands escape slavery

But she's annoying! I hope Cersei beats her, although extremely doubtful :(

The whole "died in childbirth" thing is so over used. I read somewhere that Dany would get pregnant and then die in childbirth and I hope that doesn't happen. Tyrion's mother "died in childbirth." Lyanna Targaryen "died in Childbirth" and if they make Dany die that way it's pure laziness on the part of the writers. Let her die fighting. As Daario said, she's a conqueror.

I agree last season's writing was pretty awful. IMO the only person who carried his character well and delivered his lines was Jaime. His scenes with Cersei, and with Olenna were brilliantly played. He deserves a lot more recognition.

R77 At least it's realistic. The most common way for women to die in that era was childbrith, and it killed both poor women and rich women, even many queens. And it was completely unpredictable and could destroy years of careful planning

With just six episodes, there isn't enough time to get anyone pregnant and then have them have a child, unless it's some weird magical sped-up pregnancy thing, which would just be silly.

Dany's definitely getting pregnant. They talked about it too much. And the Witch told Cersei she'd have three kids. So this is number 4 and it won't goto term. Betcha.

This show is a fantasy show. And time passes. That has been my one biggest criticism of the show. They don't do a good job of showing time pass. And honestly, maybe Day and Jon don't know, but Brann will know she's pregnant. Betcha.

r68 I haven't bought any of the books yet because I am waiting for GRRM to finish writing them before I buy them.

Like Truman Capote before him, GRRM seems to have developed a taste for being a celebrated talk show guest. It must be hard to return to the discipline of writing after making the rounds of all the talk shows and conventions 3-4 times each. I believe it is highly unlikely GRRM will ever finish the last novel. It will be his ' Answered Prayers' and we will see the 3rd coming before he finishes the series.

Even Thomas Harris writes faster than GRRM!

After the first season, I desperately wanted to read the books. just couldn't get into them and I tried three separate times.

What's intriguing to me is that with the TV show, we talk about the characters. We talk about the story. We have theories about various outcomes. But rarely do we talk about the actual actors. Over all these years, yeah, we know their names and they're familiar. But I can't think of any TV show that gave life to its characters the way Game of Thrones has.

OK. I've been thinking about Dany. I know a lot of people don't like her. I'm not her biggest fan either and I think Emilia Clarke is wanting as an actress.Whatever. OK. This character started with less than nothing. She was abused by her brother, had no home and was bartered as practically a child bride to Drogo. She received a gift of three dragon's eggs they assumed were petrified. She learns the language of the Dothraki, learns their culture and earns her place at Drogo's side as Kaleesi.

He dies. She burns him and hatches the dragons, demonstrating that she is immune to fire. Her torn and tattered tribe of loyalists follow her to Qarth. She gets her second wind, accumulates some gold, and travels with her dragons to find soldiers, first the Second Son & Daario, then she acquires the Unsullied. So now she has three dragons and an army. She rules Mereen, and after battling her enemies, acquires ships.

Then she meets with the Greyjoys and acquires allies and more ships. Varys negotiates with Ellyria Sand and Olenna Tyrell and boom, more allies, more armies. That final scene in season 6, we see her leading a fleet of ships with her advisors, her allies, her dragons, and her army. Oh, I forgot. She killed off all the Khals and acquired the entire Dothraki army.

She takes Dragonstone, hooks up with Jon Snow, and now has a foothold in Westeros. She shows off her power in battle practically destroying the Lannister armies and all their supplies. So, IMO, watching her scrabble for all of this, starting from nothing, it tells me they aren't going to kill her off. She's been pretty awesome, and her magic, being immune to fire, and able to command dragons, is going to save her.

My timeline was off. Dany acquired the Unsullied, then the Second Sons and Daario.

R85, Dany may well die heroically to save Westeros. I'd be disappointed to see her die for anything less, after all the stunts she's pulled and gotten away with, but sometimes the savior is the martyr, the sacrifice for the good of all. And the legend of Azor Ahai certainly hints and something like that happening, what with Jon being Azor Ahai reborn.

Anyway! Is anyone up for the prequel series that's been announced? I don't think I am. I think I'm going to drop HBO when the show ends.

[quote]And the legend of Azor Ahai certainly hints and something like that happening, what with Jon being Azor Ahai reborn.

This is my #1 theory, R86. I don't know about the rest of the characters, but I'd bet money that John is going to forge some kind of sword in Daenerys's heart. He will live and rule (with their child, his heir), and Dany will die. That is the "bittersweet" ending that we have been promised.

Well I recall when Emilia Clarke was finished with her shoot she was not happy. She seemed angry and dissatisfied with the way her character ended the story. So I'm thinking you may be right and she dies. But that sucks in a way, because it's like, OK you've conquered insurmountable odds, and you're right there. It's within your grasp, but oops, sorreee! You die.

Are we supposed to hope that an aunt and her nephew marry and live happily ever after?

Yeah, I agree, R88. If that prediction is correct, it would be some "self-sacrificing woman" bullshit from GRRM.

r77 I agree! Jamie was the only likable one last season. Jon, Dany, Cersei and even Arya (my favorite) sucked that season. Sansa can honestly go away, I can't believe they kept her alive this long

R91, the entire Arya/Sansa arc last season was a mess and I blame sloppy editing. We're supposed to believe that hostility between them, real, palpable hostility existed, and then they come together to kill Littlefinger. I've read that there was a scene cut where Brann takes the two sisters to task and reveals to them how Littlefinger has been operating and manipulating not just them, but how he has been responsible all along. Too bad if true. We needed some explanation for they reconciling. Unless the writers wanted us to assume the hostility was an act. But that notion doesn't work.

I want a scene of Jaime fucks Jon Snow...

Right now, I would be happy to just get another trailer with some actual shots from Season 8. Step on it Dave and Dan!

I think we might get a trailer at the end of February. But I don't think they want this to be the ordinary promotion that happens for just any series. I think when they finally do come out with anything resembling a trailer/promotion it is going to be a tribute to the extraordinary success of the story, and to the fact that... This. Is. It.

[quote]the entire Arya/Sansa arc last season was a mess and I blame sloppy editing. We're supposed to believe that hostility between them, real, palpable hostility existed, and then they come together to kill Littlefinger. I've read that there was a scene cut where Brann takes the two sisters to task and reveals to them how Littlefinger has been operating and manipulating not just them, but how he has been responsible all along.

Whoever made the decision to have that scene cut, is an absolute fool because you're right, that whole thing was very stupid and half-assed in how it was executed. You have these two sisters going at it and then suddenly, they've made up and kill him.

So, any predictions about Varys? As I look at it, we have Varys, the Red Woman, Melisandre, and neither of them have any discernible role...yet.

Since Varys can't do much about the Others, my guess is that he's going to be instrumental in taking down Cersei and/or Tyrion.

R98, I hope so, because he barely had a role at all last season.

I just want to see Ice Dragon fight the Fire Dragon. And poor Zombie Hodor.

So we can pretty much assume Hodor will be a blue eyed zombie? I'm guessing the remaining guys at Castle Black led by Edd will also be zombies.

I was hoping we'd see Meera and that we'd finally meet Howland Reed, but I guess not.

Varys wins the throne

I don't know about Varys winning the throne, but I do know that the scene with Dany, once they arrive at Dragonstone, where she catalogues his history of changing sides and working against the monarch he doesn't like, and she threatens him, insisting that he be honest enough to face her, is an important scene. It sets down the rules.

And the scene with Tyrion where he is so agitated and upset about Dany and her dragon roasting the Lannister army, then burning the Tarleys, is important. Tyrion showed how truly conflicted he is when confronted by the reality of what it will take for Dany to take power, and become queen of Westeros.

We've also been shown how Varys and Tyrion discuss Dany among themselves and talk about how to rein her in. Then Tyrion calls her impulsive to her face, and he tells Cersei later, that Dany is a good ruler because she listens to his advice.

All these are bread crumbs setting the stage for multiple betrayals. IMO. I think Varys is going to tell Dany that Tyrion is going behind her back with Cersei. Because unlike Tyrion, Varys is not torn or conflicted about Cersei, or the nobility, and the old houses of Westeros.

" I've read that there was a scene cut where Brann takes the two sisters to task and reveals to them how Littlefinger has been operating and manipulating not just them, but how he has been responsible all along."

I think it was cut because taking down Littlefinger was Sansa's big moment - the scene where she took her rightful place as ruler of Winterfell and head of the Stark family, and showed she was a badass in her own way. The way it was presented made it look like she'd seen through Littlefingered and figured out how to take him down, if Bran had been the one to tell her what LF was up to she wouldn't have been at all impressive.

Which of course means that Bran lost another big moment, but I can live with that. He's just not that interesting.

R104, I disagree. I have a different take on it:

Where Dan & Dave played with our heads, and IMO they executed it poorly, was at the very beginning of that scene when Sansa is talking to the room, and there's just enough ambiguity for us to wonder if she's talking about Arya, and if we are going to see a showdown between Arya and Sansa.

Remember, the earlier scenes leading up to this between Sansa and Arya, show the two sisters being hostile to one another. Even to the point of Sansa appearing to ask for guidance from Littlefinger. So when she calls Littlefinger's name we're supposed to be as startled as Littlefinger. He was blindsided.

But as Sansa begins to lay out the charges it's clear she has already spoken to Brann because there was no other way for her to know some of the things she spoke about. Then Brann chimes in reminding Littlefinger that he held a knife to Ned's throat and told him he should have never trusted him.

I didn't need to have an elaborate scene with Brann spelling everything out to the two sisters. But it would have been useful to at least have Brann summon his sisters to his room, and say, "I need to tell you both what Littlefinger has done to our family..." Then the door closes. It would have taken all of 30 seconds and made the storyline a lot smoother.

The photos they release had one teensy clue: Jaime Lannister was pictured wearing armor and clothes exactly like Robb Stark's and the army of the North. So apparently when he left Cersei, he actually did make it north. No one killed him on his way.

I'm slowly making my way through GRRM's tomes. Its been several years and I'm only now at the end of the second book, A Clash Of Kings. Reading the chapters of the Battle at the Blackwater currently. There's a lot of criticism against Weiss and Benioff that the writing dropped off in quality after they ran out of book material, but I don't find that true at all. Martin's characters have conversations that seem to go on forever, and many of the scenes are bloated with names and details I quickly forget. D&D were smart enough to cherrypick the best of Martin's lines and put them to great effect, but kept the speeches and dialog concise and a lot more brutal. A case in point - Catelyn's conversation with Jaime when she's deciding to let him go. In the books, Cat has been told that Rickon and Bran are dead, their heads on spikes at WF, while the show kept the news a bit more vague. I love this scene in the show because this was a great Jaime moment when he starts to become interesting. The excellent work done by Nikolaj when he's giving his "so many vows, they make you swear and swear" speech is more powerful because the rest of the scene crackles with its punches of brutality. But truly, Weiss and Benioff take some of Martin's dialog and then elevate it, imo. And then there are the many, many scenes and speeches that were wholly their invention, not from the book at all, and more often than not I find them an improvement to the books. Arya in Harrenhaal and her scenes with Tywin are a great example of this. Some of the best character moments of S2, and none of it was in the source material. And scenes like Tyrion, Bronn, and Varys trying to come up with some solutions to hold Stannis at the gate is tremendous stuff that came from the showrunners. In fact, so many of my favorite scenes were not from the book. As hard as it is to get through the drudgery of some of his prose, I think D&D should be credited for their editing choices. And sure, a lot of changes were due to budgetary limitations, but still, every time I come to a scene of comparison, I find the show's version is the one I prefer.

I'm also of the opinion that S1, so revered by many fans, is one of the weakest seasons. I found Season 2 vastly superior, as a dozen characters at least suddenly got interesting. The acting improved by a margin as well. I used to think Lena was dreadful in S1 with that wooden, monotonous voice. But S2 was a different performance altogether. Her and Tyrion's scenes were the best thing about KL bits.

Anyone else have bits of the show that they liked better than Martin's books? I also think a lot of relationships in the show were improved by the choices the showrunners made. Tyrion and Shae, for all that those scenes could be draining, were a lot more compelling as a couple than the book counterparts.

Although I do enjoy the wolf "dreams" of the Stark kids when they're warging into their direwolves. There are things I enjoy in the books that never made it to the show. Just having access to the thoughts of favorite characters like Jon, Bran, and Arya adds a lot. I do have to skim through Catelyn's and Theon's chapters a lot.

R107 thanks for your post. I read the books so long ago I can no longer distinguish between scenes from one or the other . I loved the scenes of Arya with Tywin. All the scenes with Tyrion and Lena, are well done and well written. I feel like Jaime started growing when Caitlyn released him to Brienne. I was glad certain characters and scenes from the books were edited out and not included in the TV show. I got through the first three books very well, but Book 4 was exasperating. I had to fight to concentrate and focus. Book five, I know, ended with Jon Snow's assassination. When I think of how David Benioff and Dan Weiss handled the Theon/Sansa/Ramsey Bolton storyline, I think the TV show did a much better job.

I love what The TV show D&D did with Ja'qen H'gar. Damned fine man and I thought he had the hots for Arya. There was definitely something seductive and sexual about his interest. It was as if he was grooming her. And yet, I never quite believed he was completely human. As far as I remember he wasn't in the books as he was in the Show. He was just someone with no name.

r107, I read all 5 books consecutively between the middle of Season 1 and before Season 2. I totally understand most of the decisions showrunners Dan and Dave made. I say most because Dan and Dave, in my opinion, FUCKED UP the storyline involving Martells other than Oberyn and the kingdom of Dorne. This has become my favorite kingdom/family in the books, mainly because of one person that I find intriguing as all get out and that's Princess Arianne Martell. What a strong female character. I really believe Dan and Dave truly fucked up by cutting her and her storyline out of the TV show for the sake of the Dorne related shit that they choose to show.

Also keep in mind that some characters who died in the show are still alive in the books. As much as I love Lady Stoneheart, I get why she was excluded from the show. Between her and Jon Snow, his resurrection was most important to the overall story and Lady Catelyn being resurrected first would've seriously diluted the effect of Jon's Season 6 resurrection. Ser Barristan Selmy is still alive in the books and I think that's a good thing. I truly believe that when all is said and done, GRRM will get the last laugh. Even though it's been said that both the TV show and books will end the same way, when all is said and done, his story path will be significantly better.

I hear a lot of complaints about the way the show butchered the Martells and the Dorne plotline and that it turned into quite the abomination, but I have yet to make it to their introduction in the books yet so I will be curious when I get there. They were bloody awful in the show. Obviously, Pedro brought a lot of charm and sizzle to the character of Oberyn, but even his visits to the brothels could get boring. I think his scene with Tyrion in his cell was his best moment. The look on Tyrion's face when he hears he has his champion gets me every time.

I agree about the need to remove Lady Stoneheart, and from what I heard she doesn't really add much. Beric Dondarrion played his part to pave the way for the idea of resurrection. I love Jon Snow so I was pretty gutted at the finale of season five, having not read the books or any spoilers.

Isn't Stannis still alive in the books as well? Although I would gather not for long if GRRM every finishes the next book.

For you, R12....Jon's snow mounds

Thank you, r113, for reminding me to binge watch Season 6 and 7 again. April 14th can't come soon enough. I hope it starts where they left off...on the boat having sex...

I'm glad they didn't include Lady Stoneheart in the TV show. I have to be honest. I found Michelle Farley's Caitlyn Stark beyond annoying. She was my least favorite character.

Catelyn was definitely annoying. But Fairley had some scenes where she shined. I particularly loved the confession she gives to Talisa about asking the Gods to let Jon die until he gets the pox and then she begged for him to live but then walked back on her promise.

Also, many of the cast were doing a Press Day in London today. Hope we get something soon.

"Isn't Stannis still alive in the books as well?"

In the books, Stannis isn't dead yet, but he's trapped in the snowbound wilderness and running out of food, and is pretty clearly doomed.

Martin is never going to finish the books. They started out great but he's literally lost the plot, and the last three books were meandering messes where he just lets his characters wander around randomly. They're so bad that he can neither continue in that vein or fix the mess he's made, so he's just going to sit back and let the HBO people finish it all for him.

I got through the first three books with no problem, but yes, book 4 was just awful. Meandering Mess is a kind description. Book five was slightly better than 4, but it ended with Jon Snow being stabbed to death.... I've reached the point where I 'm over it. Bring on the last six episodes. As I think about it, I have a feeling that the best of it is behind us.

Cersei has nothing left but mercenaries and a treacherous ally. She has even lost Jaime. Dany and Jon are together, and the Starks are back at Winterfell. The army of the Dead marches on, but now we have dragons and dragon glass and Brann and all the "stars" are assembling to vanquish the enemy. So let's get on with it.

The idea of watching 6-8 hours of the main cast and cast favorites battling ice zombies is not attractive to me. What else do they have? A love story? Tragedy? Treachery? They better come up with something more than this Army of the Dead bullshit. They could handle that in a two hour episode and call it a day.

Well they're definitely going to have a love story which has a 0% chance of ending happily, R120, then they've got the war against the Others, and there's the question of who's going to sit on the Iron Throne, and who's going to rule, um, six of the seven kingdoms. Come to think of it, they're all in doubt, except for the Vale. ALL of the seven kingdoms and the Iron Islands are either missing a legitimate Lord/Lady, or are ruled by someone who needs to be taken down!

That sounds like more than enough material for one season.

Yes, R121, but IMO it seems like more of the same old shit they've been doing:Who will sit on the throne? It has become tedious. I'll watch it because I've become so invested. I've read the books, watched all the episodes, but at this point they will have to come up with a plausible surprise.Something that we aren't aware of that connects all the dots. This was really a fun extraordinary Series. I've enjoyed it. I was hoping that it would come to its conclusion in a really great way. I want to be satisfied with the ending, after investing all these years. Unfortunately I don't think that's going to happen. Unless somehow they make a villain out of Tyrion or Varys. I want to be surprised.

My speculation is that after the good guys wipe out the magical bad guys, Dany will insist on marrying Jon so they can be co-rulers, but at the wedding, she will be murdered by Tyrion, the most sympathetic murderer in Westeros history. He will be doing it for the good of the country, to prevent the Targaryens from interbreeding another mad king.

Regarding the seven or eight kingdoms:

You think Sansa is going to sit quietly by and let Jon rule the North in the long term? No, once the war against the Others is over, Jon had better turn over the North to her, or she'll find a way to take it away from him.

The Freys just died en masse and Edmure Tully is still a prisoner, so nobody's ruling the Riverlands.

Robin Arryn isn't going anywhere, the Vale at least has a stable government.

Cersei rules the Westerlands for now, but obviously either Jamie or Tyrion is going to take it when she dies or is killed.

The Crownlands go to whoever takes the Iron Throne, if anyone.

The Tarlys were killed off about five minutes after they were granted the rule of the Reach. Obviously Sam's going to take over at some point, but not until the war is over.

The Stormlands don't seem to have a ruler, it looks like the Baratheons died off during the War of Five Kings and the doomed Cersei is running the show there.

Ellaria Sand had taken over the rule of Dorne even though Oberyn's eldest daughter was the legit heir, now that the Sand Snakes are dead and Ellaria is a prisoner, it's not clear who is in charge.

Urine Grejoy is ruling the Iron Islands, obviously Yara and Theon are going to take over at some point, not that I care.

So they've got to settle ALL those conflicts before ending the show! Honestly, it seems a bit much to fit in, along with the war between the living and the dead.

R114, also check out the episode in which Jon Snow is brought back to life. He jumps off the table nude. No frontal, but his backside makes up for it ;)

His backside makes up for pretty much everything.

mmm, manbuns

It is my fervent hope that Season 8 will open exactly where Season 7 ended. Boat sex. He has a beautiful body. I don't think his nude scenes were photoshopped or WTF ever they do.

I saw Pedro Pascal on Broadway last night in Glenda Jackson's King Lear ... great eye candy.

OMG. I love Pedro Pascal...and he is family!!!!!

David Benioff and Dan Weiss said they hated trailers and didn't want to release on, but then they changed their mind and they're supposed to be releasing one very soon, because...why not. They just released posters of the main cast members. A couple of the posters look OK, but most of them are crap.

A prequel series?

Seems like a good idea!

I hear the movie is shit, but Kit Harington was at the opening of the Xavier Dolan movie last night with Susan Sarandon and she looked like she wanted to fight Xavier for him. Susan likes the young ones.

I like GOT a lot but they are so full of themselves they are nearly insufferable.

I know R134, but I think that's mostly Dave and Dan. I think the cast is pretty cool. The main impression I have is that the cast is absolutely over the moon, relieved, happy deliriously happy that it's all over. They were burned out with it by the end. Every interview seems like someone expresses relief.

But Weiss & Benioff do have a right to be full of themselves. They unleashed a worldwide cultural phenomenon. Yes, they benefited from modern technology, and the way media is distributed today, but GoT and the characters, the actors, etc. are now well known all over the world.

GRRM deserves most of the credit for creating such a rich, fun universe with compelling characters

r136 Exactly. Remember the first thing they announced post-Thrones? Confederate. Yeah, those two definitely lucked into this material.

Oh, I agree, GRRM deserves a lot of credit. But his books were around for years and most people aside from a narrow segment, had not heard of them.

I just went to the fandom wiki and reread what happened in the last episode. I don't know how they can expect viewers to remember everything that's happened.

This is March. The final season airs on April 14th. so 44 days? Beginning this month I'm going to re-watch the entire series. All seven seasons. I will watch it carefully so that I can pick up little things I may have overlooked the first 2,000 times I watched. (kidding!)

Jon will die, R124. Sansa will be free to rule the North.

Sansa will rule the North, I'm certain but I don't know what Jon's status will be

If he dies I will be bereft.

If they kill off Jon again and Sansa rules I will be absolutely pissed. She doesn't deserve to rule a fucking tea party.

Jon will either die or be king of all Westeros, there's nothing in between for him and they're not going to let him settle down with a nice Wildling spearwife and be happy.

There will always be a Stark at Winterfell, and he isn't a Stark. So Sansa gets the North, and may the Gods have mercy on her next husband.

I'm betting Gendry gets with Sansa. I don't see much future for Arya. In any event, I don't think Gendry and Arya will become a real couple. I think they'll have their reunion, and he will be attracted to Sansa, and Arya will watch the beginnings of that, and she will bow out. Face it. Arya has a special skill. She's going to be among the top people who save the world. Jon, Dany, Arya and Bran. Of course there's always Jaime Lannister. He and Sansa might get together. He likes strong women and Sansa is definitely that.

Sansa strong? She's a survivor and she survived by submitting. She has never been pro-active. She's been a terrible judge of character, eg believing Littlefinger when [forget her name] warned her not to that time on the pier.

Her character wasn't helped by the scriptwriters screwing up this past season, making Sansa and Arya at odds at Winterfell. It was just to create the surprise denouement of Littlefinger in the last episode. The disagreement was to fool his spies, yet several times they were arguing when there was no one around to eavesdrop. It just made Sansa look foolish.

r130, do you know this for sure? I think Pedro Pascal is sooo fucking hot! Does he have a type?

I don't "know it for sure" But I think so.

r148 Yes. And his Insta likes reveal his type.

So far, anyone associated with any kind of incest hasn't fared too well so if that's a theme GRRM looks to continue, it doesn't look too good for Cersei, Jamie, Daenerys or Jon.

Everyone is expecting either Dany or Jon to die. Or both. But I'm betting one of them survives and maybe even both. How cool would it be if Jon turns into the Night King..... LOL!

Jon Snow does the walk of shame for 10 minutes

r153, filmed from the back. Kit Harrington is bootilicious!

Doesn’t Danny need to die to be with Khal Drogo and their baby?

Game of Thrones first look: Inside the brutal battle to make season 8

I can't wait! I want to take a leave of absence from my job and just be a full-time GoT geek!

And yeah, R155, remember Dany's vision from season 2? Where she sees snow falling onto a ruined iron throne, and then she sees Drogo and a living baby together? Ya thing that being re-united with Drogo and her dead baby might be some foreshadowing? Ya think SNOW ON THE IRON THRONE might be a metaphor for something?

Absolutely r157.

After reading that article, I'm about to go into hype shock. The cast and crew sound like they took a real beating. All those drunk sightings are starting to make a lot more sense.

But didn't Khal Drogo send her back? She wanted to stay with them, but he sent her back. And yes, Snow on the Throne.... and don't forget, she went through the Wall to find Khal Drogo.

I can't wait to find out what happens to Ramsey Bolton. And that young king, Joffrey? Wonder what happens to him.

R161, Where the hell have you been????? Joffrey takes the Lannister Army north to fight Ramsey for Sansa. He was SO pissed off about Littlefinger stealing Sansa and taking her to Ramsey. So Joffrey kills Littlefinger, then he takes his army north. He forms an alliance with his uncle Stannis and they attack Ramsey. They win, rescue Sansa, and Joffrey agrees to give up the throne, give it to Uncle Stannis, and stay up north with Sansa as ruler of Winterfell.

SPOILERS!!!!!!!!

All of the women die and the final scene is an all male orgy where Jon, Jamie and Theon’s asses take multiple brutal poundings

Well, Jon’s statue in the crypt looks like he lives to be older in the teaser. I am holding on to that as a sign he will survive.

R165, yes, when I saw that I felt relief. But I also questioned why he was in the Winterfell crypt with Sansa & Arya, and no Dany.

Trailer.

I bet Jon and Dany die together, like at the end of Pompeii (where Kit played the lead).

The ending is "bittersweet." I think the two die in each other's arms, frozen or something.

I think everyone dies except a few, including the Children and a small contingent of generally kind, practice people, like Podrick and Brienne. Maybe one highborn, like Arya.

GAME OF HOMOSEXUALS

Who was that in the trailer carrying a flaming sword?

The resolution wasn't good enough on my computer to tell, but it was NOT Jon.

Beric carried the flaming sword. He and Tormund must have survived the breach of The Wall by Vyserion and the NK. THey weer accompanied by Edd from Castle Black.

So Beric really was Azor Ahai reborn this whole time.

I don't think the TV version cares about that crap, but it is interesting that he has the ability to set his sword on fire.

The new trailer had no Tyrion, no Melisandre and no Bronn. I also wonder if Jaime stopped to pick up Edmure Tully in the Riverlands.

Jaime looks hot. I don't want him to die.

All I care about is Jon and Jaqen H'ghar.

[quote]The new trailer had no Tyrion

Tyrion is in the trailer.

Cersei is probably drinking poison in the one scene

NO! I figured it out.It's the only spoiler in the trailer I figured out.When Tyrion met with Cersei, he poured wine but she refused a glass. Because she was pregnant. So now we see her with tears in her eyes, drinking a glass of wine????? She's not pregnant anymore, and I'm betting a miscarriage. No baby.

Wow! Like that theory r177. Never expected her baby to survive.

is Jaqen H'ghar in the final season?

I just watched him in Das Boots. really good.

Or she was lying about being pregnant the whole time

Jaqen will probably be a surprise cameo. Can't imagine he wouldn't show up at some point.

R173 stopped to pick up Edmure to bring him to Winterfell to join the fight? Or stopped to rescue him from the Frey dungeon?

I'd be really surprised if Edmure is still imprisoned. After arya killed all the Frey men, I don't think the women would keep him locked up. He wasn't their enemy.

I hope he took his wife and kid and went back to River run.

Either way, he'll probably die.

Oh, Edmure is gonna die. If he is in this. I think he will be. Jaime had that big scene with him, so I think they'll reconnect. He was at RiverRun. Freys had taken it over, but it was the Tully holdfast. So I agree with you, the survivors probably let him go. His wife would certainly do that.

I think Bronn is going to have a role to play. I can see him shoot arrows of dragonglass at Vyserion. After all, so far his claim to fame is shooting the arrow to ignite the wildfire in Blackwater Bay, and the operating that giant Scorpion firing and hitting Drogon at the battle of the Loot Train. IMO that foreshadows him going after Vyserion.

Be nice to have Tobias Menzies back too.

Is this a spoiler free thread? I just kind of jumped in at the end here

Don't want to spoil anything if it is...

Nope. I don't know nuthin' bout no spoilers. All we can do is speculate, since there have been no leaks. None. Nada. No. Leaks. So if you don't want to speculate be gone. Nothing that's said here has been confirmed. We watch the trailers or we repeat previous seasons and we speculate.

I have two fantasies. In one, Ja'qen H'gar shows up at Winterfell and tells Arya he has a contract to assassinate Cersei. (Euron will probably try to pay the faceless men to take her out...after they're married. ) He asks Arya if she wants to go to Kings Landing to handle it.....

And my other fantasy is Daario. Daario ran a mercenary army called the Second Sons. So maybe he hooks up with the Gold Company, and shows up in King's Landing with his BFF, the guy who's in charge of the Gold Company and they have already been contracted to work for Daario against Cersei. I just have a funny feeling about the way they go all the way to Essos to hire these guys and that's where Daario is.

Ah, I meant I don't want to spoil anything for anyone else, but according to a cast list I saw--

Tobias Menzies is coming back as Edmure. And there's a pic of him at the airport in Northern Ireland from last year with some of the other cast members. So we will get some Edmure. Probably not a lot since he's a minor character. But, It really isn't surprising he's back since I'm sure they're tying up all the loose ends they can in this last season.

Robin Arryn and Lady Mormont are returning as well.

R188 I'm not sure ja'qen would be happy to see Arya. Didn't she steal a bunch of faces from the House of Black and White? I'd think that would put her in his bad books.

It wouldn't surprise me if he popped up somewhere though.

It would be really sad to have to watch Lady Mormont‘s death.

Haha, she's actually the one character I wasn't worried about. I think she'll outlast them all.

Or she will die a glorious death on the battlefield. Just as she would want.

There are so many of the minor characters that I'm afraid will be killed off...Tormund, the Hound, Ser Davos, Jorah, Brienne. They've been on some interesting journeys. Bron too.

The cuddly ones, Sam and wife, Podrick, eh.

Don't really care whether Jaime, Sansa, Jon Snow, and Dany make it to the end. Cersei, I m sure she'll get her comeuppance, also don't care. Tyrion must live though, he's the real hero.

Can Arya die? Or does her time with the Faceless Men mean she's immortal.

R190 you raise a very interesting point. But I don't think Arya stole any faces from Ja'qen H'gar. She knew his rules, which is why, when she realized The Waif was on a mission to kill her, after she defeated The Waif, she brought her face to him. All debts are paid. When she went back to Westeros, she went after the Freys, and the faces she used and kept with her, were faces she get o her own. Arya is a killer. She took nothing from the House of Black & White.

Don't forget about Ghost. He'll probably die protecting Jon.

I'm with you r193 about Jon and Dany. Mostly Dany, I don't really care if she lives or dies. The only reason I'd want Jaime to live is because Brienne loves him. Sappy, I know, but I want her to survive and get Jaime. I predict Sansa survives and rules Winterfell. Sam and Gilly and little Sam all survive and live there. Maybe they'll let Davos live and he can go home to his wife. If she even remembers him anymore.

I can't wait for Cersei's end. I hope it's magnificent. She is such a great villain.

I hope they don't have Hound and Mountain fight only for them to kill each other. I'd like Hound to survive this whole thing. He's pretty badass. Jorah is toast. Pod as well. Bronn lives and gets his castle...finally.

I don't think Arya is immortal b/c she isn't really a faceless man. She learned the skill, but she never fully committed.

Cool r194 thanks for the recap. I was remembering it wrong. I thought she stole those faces. But now that you mention it I do remember Arya giving him the Waif's face and then leaving.

I probably should've done a rewatch of the last few seasons.

Or, r195, Brienne is killed saving Jaime. That's something scriptwriters would consider.

Yeah, Jorah is a dead man walking.

I thought Davos' wife was dead. I forget his back story...pirate? cheese? but I love the actor and his voice, he could read me the phone book and I'd fall asleep like a babe.

The Mountain kills The Hound (cue buckets of tears), Arya defeats The Mountain somehow and the guy who recreated him. (Love Anton Lesser btw)

Won't Sam go back to his um, kingdom? because his father and older brother are dead.

Bran, yet another character I don't care about.

Nooo! The Hound shouldn’t die!

No he shouldn't but will the script writers be able to resist?

Time to revisit this funny mash up of Ja'qen Hagar sp?

Another Anton Lesser fan here - he plays unlikeable characters so well, giving them depth. He's so good on [italic]Endeavour[/italic].

I have to wonder if Qyburn has some role to play with the Dead. He turned The Mountain into a freaky almost Zombie. He was fascinated with the real zombie Jon brought to the big meeting in the Dragon Pit. So I have to wonder if the writers were giving us a hint about his future "experiments" ? Personally I hope they just kill him, Cersei and the Mountain. Euron too.

Oh Qyburn will come to a bad end.

Yes, I loved his scene in Endeavour when he met...Princess Margaret? and he's describing what a brilliant conversationalist she was, "Have you come far?" she asked. Totally serious.

He was also great in Wolf Hall.

I agree r198. But once his life's mission of killing his brother is complete he'll probably die.

I would love it if he and Tormund survive and go on an epic road trip together. Or become roomies. They're funny together.

my prediction: Jaime is going to "die in the arms of the woman he loves" ....Brienne.

Here's people I can accept if they die even if I don't want them to die:

Podrick, Bronn, Bran, Edd, Beric, Greyworm.

Here's people I will be EXTREMELY, IRRATIONALLY upset if they die and I will not accept it:

Ser Davos,Ser Jorah, Jaime, The Hound, Sansa, Arya, Brienne, Jon, Dany, Tyrion Missandei, Varys , Lyanna Mormont

Here's people I will go apeshit and become violent if they die:

Samwell, GIlly, and their kid.

Gilly is associated with incest so will die according to the theme whereby everyone involved with incest dies.

I'm curious to see who Beric gives his last life to. If he makes it to Winterfell I'm guessing the Hound. If not, then Tormund.

That's nonsense. I don't think "everyone involved with incest dies" is a theme. Oberyn Martell, Olenna Tyrell, Loras Tyrell, Mace Tyrell, Kevin Lannister, Robert Baratheon, Renley Baratheon, Stannis Baratheon, Thoros of Mur, Robb Stark, his wife, his mother, his father, his brother. The only people affected by incest were Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella. Jaime is alive. So is Cersei. When they do die, IF they die it'll be from treachery not incest.

Jaime’s done incestin’ now, so I genuinely think he has a chance of surviving. Tommen made a point of removing him from the KG as well, so he’s not obligated to keep those chastity vows (which he never did anyway), making him single and ready to mingle in the North. He’s already given Brienne his sword once before. I suspect he’s going to do it more figuratively soon enough.

I bet the whole reason that the Night King came South is because Gilly didn’t give over her incest baby.

Cersei survives the finale

The Night King sure is nit picky and a grudge holder if that’s the case R208.

Jaime is definitely going to hook up with Brienne. And then they will both die.

He had a redemption arc and him fighting for good against the dead is him fulfilling it.

I wonder if they'll have what I like to call the Kumbaya moment, when the night before the battle no one can sleep so they sing songs and ell jokes and stories to break up the tension. I have yet to see Jaime Lannister genuinely happy. I haven't seen him laugh or be carefree ever during this entire 8 season extravaganza. I would like to see that finally.

If Cersei survives the finale, I will be very upset. The only exception is if she's put in a position of having to live through some massive suffering.

NO MORE STARK DEATHS!!! Enough is enough!

Bad things happen in the crypt. White walkers raise the dead kings of Winterfell - but who knows if they will turn on their own. There is a dragon under Winterfell, where there is a large hot spring - will it appear finally?

Jon is definitely riding Rhaegal.

Cersei is drinking wine - not pregnant any more (she refused wine in the last season). She will be betrayed by Euron Greyjoy.

Does Gendry forge the sword Lightbringer, to be carried by Azor Ahai? Some believe Gendry will sit on the iron throne.

The trailer leaves so many questions.

R186 Unless someone on here has read the script, spoilers are not possible as the show has moved beyond the last book.

I don't think the White Walkers will raise the Dead in the crypt. But I do believe the crypt will be an important part of the storyline. I'm still totally in the dark about what Bran might do to save them. We've had a teaser trailer with Jon, Sansa and Arya in the crypt, and there were scenes from the tunnels and the crypt in the official trailer. I can speculate abut every one in that cast of characters but Bran. I sure hope they do a believable job of transforming Bran into our savior.

Gendry is gorgeous. I wouldn't mind it if he wins.

Vulture did a great breakdown of the teaser but for some reason I can’t post the link.

I want Ghost and Nymeria to run away to a safe happy meadow to frolic and NOT DIE

Was the mythos about ice dragons under the wall and Euron having a dragon binder also in the show or just in the books? I don't recall either things mentioned on the show. But if it was brought up the ice dragon is obviously Dany's wayward child Viserion.

To me Gendry's only purpose will be to forge swords from dragonglass. I think Beric Dondarrion will give his final life to save Jon as a play on the book canon where he gave his last life to resurrect Catelyn.

Cersei has to die and while I want it to be at the hands of Jamie, I think it would be at the hands of Euron since valonqar only means little brother but not whose little brother. Having it be Jamie or Tyrion is too on the nose and too expected at this point. Or I can accept the idea of Cersei killing Jamie and in turn Tyrion kills her.

I think Arya will join the Night's Watch as there is always a Stark at the Wall and Sansa and Bran will hold down Winterfell.

Varys and Melissandre have to die. I don't want Theon to die but I think he will die trying to save Yara in a way that will make him a redeemed hero.

Dany won't fuck Jorah so he might as well die. Insipid Gilly and Sam will be fine. Same with Bronn.

Game of Thrones’ Fan Theories About the Crypts of Winterfell:

I think the real star of the trailer is the crypt of winterfell. Something important will happen there. The undead starks are coming. Or maybe undead littlefinger ?

Run, Arya, run!

Lady Stoneheart

FWIW

Cersei kills Dany

Tyrion kills Jon

Viserion kills both Drogon and Rhaeghal

Jorah kills Viserion w/Heartsbane

Missandei dies; Grey Worm lives (old trope, remember Mrs Miniver)

Ghost dies in Winterfell

Arya kills the NK

Army of the Dead are defeated

Jaime dies

Minor deaths: Tormund, Podrick, Beric (?), Hound, Mountain, Sam, Gendry, Doloros Edd (?)

------------------------------------------ Less sure

Tyrion dies

---------------------------------------- Truth - no one really knows on the Internet

PS Nothing on Arya, Sansa or Brienne

Why would Tyrion kill Jon?

Arya dies. Hate her.

I don't think anyone buried in the crypts will be resurrected. Catelyn and Ned were the last two buried there. That was 4 yrs and 6 yrs ago (estimate). Ned must be too decomposed to walk by now.

Rickon and Robb Stark are down there. Maybe Talisa, Rob's wife.

I think Arya is going to kill Cersei. In fact I'm willing to bet she will. As for the prophecy I don't think it matters much. The only thing they highlight in the TV version is the 3 kids, not Cersei or who will kill her. So they changed that.

Maybe the crypts are "Magic." Maybe they have some kind of spell that stops the Army of the Dead, and that's why they're a refuge. I know. In the teaser, we saw Jon & Arya draw their swords when a cloud of frost seeped into the crypts. But maybe that was just to announce "They're here!"

I think Tyrion betrays Dany and she executes him. I have no idea what will happen to Varys or Melisandre. I think she will die, but maybe he will not.

I really do not want Ser Davos or Ser Jorah to die!!!!!!!!! No Starks either! Please let Jaime and Brienne live. In fact I want Tormund to live too and we can do a love triangle in the sequel.

r228 You're right. I forgot about Rickon and Robb.

I haven't forgotten about Richard Madden though!

Yeah, I'll be sad if Davos dies. But maybe he'll be the one 'wise old guy' character who survive and helps rebuild for the future.

Jorah- he's as good as gone. Definitely going to die heroically.

I love Varys. He's the most reflective of contemporary sensibilities.

Viserion will kill Rhaegal, but not Drogon. However, Drogon will be weakened and die in the finale.

Arya will kill Cersei.

Dany will die.

Don't care about the rest.

They could be a throuple r229.

All dragons die but not before they lay an egg.

Arya killing Cersei would be too obvious. C’mon surprise us please.

I'd like it if Jaime killed cersei but he'll probably already be dead before she dies.

If she dies...

Die, Sam, DIE!!!!!!

"Viserion will kill Rhaegal, but not Drogon. However, Drogon will be weakened and die in the finale. Arya will kill Cersei. Dany will die. Don't care about the rest."

Rhaegal dies in KL. Drogon dies in WF. Sorry you have the wrong leaks.

--------------------------------------------------------

Nobody knows. Nobody.

The guy who plays the Night King did a interview with EW, and he said the Night King has a definite destination in mind, and he has a target, and we woud be surprised to learn who the target is. IMO it has to be Bran. He's the 3ER now.

OTOH, maybe the NK is after Cersei. Kit Harington was on Stephen Colbert, and he said of all the possible scenarios he had speculated about, the way it ended was nothing like he imagined. Maybe everyone dies and Cersei becomes the Queen of the Night and the Night King sticks a frozen dick in her.

It's Bran.

Bran isnt a surprising target though.

Well maybe to the guy who plays the NK he is a surprising target. I think most people believe Jon and the night king will have it out, but maybe not.

I have a feeling Cersei is going to stand trial at the dragon pit after the wars are over, except she's going to blow everything up with wildfire.

What the hell is wrong with you people who think Cersei wouldn't drink wine while pregnant?

People in medieval societies didn't know about Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, and even if they did, they'd be more afraid of dying from drinking contaminated water than affecting the baby with a bit of alcohol. They drank wine every waking hour if they could afford it, it was safer than water, and tasted better and was more fun. And it's not like Cersei gives a rat's ass about anyone but Cersei.

Ned and Stark will not be resurrected. HELLO! They were both decapitated.

I do like the theory of familiar faces being resurrected from the Winterfell crypt. I'm guessing Rikkon, Lyanna and Lady Catelyn. There's your Lady Stoneheart. Here's another prediction. I admit it's wishful thinking but check it out. Melisandre will give her life to bring life back to someone but it won't be Jon again, or Dany, Something will happen, like one of her prophecies, to make her realize that Lady Stoneheart must be fully resurrected back to being Lady Cate. BOOM!

Maybe Melisandre is the target the NK is after.

"Maybe Melisandre is the target the NK is after."

She could be b/c she represents R'hllor and the NK the Great Other. And this may be a quarrel b/t the two gods.

Hodor resurrected

R244 Pay attention to details! You clearly do not. Cersei pointedly refuses a glass of wine at the end of season 7 (we all who pay attention to details know it is a marker of her pregnancy) When has Cersei EVER refused wine before that scene? In the trailer, there is a scene of Cersei distraught, crying and drinking wine.

Put 2 + 2 together R244. Start paying attention and improve your game. Maybe put your (large) glass down.

When an upper-class person in a Medieval society refuses wine, it's more likely because they're afraid of being poisoned than from health concerns. Wasn't she with Tyrion in that scene you mentioned? If so, she'd refuse wine as a deliberate insult, either to show that she doesn't trust him enough to take food or wine in his presence, or to show that she's less of an alcoholic than he is, or both.

Honestly, if the writers meant the lack of drinking wine to be a pregnancy thing, then they're slipping. Nobody in a place like Westeros would sober up for a pregnancy, that's something that's only been around for a few decades.

You’re very didactic r250. 😐

Where did we leave off with Varys and Melisandre? I remember them having a conversation at Winterfell I think, and then did Melisandre leave for Essos?

Good Lord, there are no rules. This story is a fantasy & it borrows from medieval times, ancient times, and other parts of real history as references, but the creators make up their own rules, customs etc. for their characters. Cersei refused to drink and made it clear her refusal was related to her pregnancy. Maybe Qyburn told her she wasn't eating enough and she was drinking to much and she needed to adopt healthier habits. Maybe the taste of wine sickened her due to her pregnancy. WTF ever. The fact that she's not drinking and her eyes are teary means she probably lost the baby. It's deductive reasoning. Look. Let's get together, I'll meet you right here after that particular episode airs, and I'm turn over my first born nephew if I'm wrong. Stop acting like some contrarian troll, R244.

Personally I think the NK is after Bran. Bran is the 3 eyed Raven.. The last one was killed by the White Walkers/NK.

The NK grabbed Bran by the arm, and it broke the spell and allowed them to kill the 3Eyed Raven, and breach the Wall.

it seems the White Walkers and the AoD became active again after so many years once Bran started getting older. There were more and more sightings of them moving south. The Wildings started to see them, etc. I think it's all tied to Bran. It would be too much of a plot twist to introduce newer storylines for other characters. It's been hinted at for several seasons that Bran has something important to do.

Are the episodes really going to be 90 minutes each? If so, why couldn't they just have made 10 episodes of 54 minutes each?

Flow maybe.

I'll take fewer episodes at greater length.

I love the show, but I'm ready for it to be done.

I would guess the Night King is after Gilly's son.

In the book Gilly is long dead. Did little Sam die at the same time?

R258, Gilly is still very much alive in the books. She and Sam are in Oldtown as of A Feast For Crows.

She dies in oldtown.

She's not dead, she's waiting for Sam on the boat while he visits the Citadel. Where in the world are you getting the idea that she died?

What’s so special about Gilly’s incest baby that has got the NK so pissed off she didn’t sacrifice him?

The Night's Watch ceases to exist, Sam marries Gilly, and their legitimate sprog becomes the next Warden of the Reach. The incest baby probably dies, because it's common for pre-existing inconvenient children of the girlfriend to die in fiction written by straight men.

Some people like the theory that Cersei ends up Queen of Westeros after the whole shitshow finishes in the North, but no way! The first half of the prophecy is fulfilled, her three children are dead, and since this is Fantasy prophecies always come true one way or another. She dies at the hand of a "Valonqiar" ("little sibling"), which could be anyone.

THe NK apparently had a deal with Craster to take all the male babies and exchange he would leave Craster and his wives and daughters alone. So when Gilly refused to part with her son, the NK was short one male baby.

Except that the Others were on the move before Gilly ran off with her baby.

Maybe the little pest was destined to become the new Night's King, and Jon and Dany have to decide whether to sacrifice the life of an innocent baby. Well if it saves the entire population of Westeros, they should!

There’s a theory that the NK had a pact with the living that was broken as soon as he stopped receiving Craster’s sons, and when there was no longer a Stark at Winterfell. There was more activity from the White Walkers before then because, like Bran, the Night King can see into the future. There are LOADS of human sacrifices in the story, and those incest babies were paying for peace.

Jaime might die, but not before he knocks Brienne up. It 100% plays into her being the ‘younger, more beautiful’ one, who takes all that Cersei ‘holds dear’, i.e. the Lannister legacy that lasts 1000 years. GRRM isn’t even subtle in the books. I think Brienne is ironically introduced as ‘Brienne the Beauty’ in one chapter, and we find out about Cersei’s prophecy in the next.

[quote]She dies at the hand of a "Valonqiar" ("little sibling"), which could be anyone.

Who is the eldest of The Hound and The Mountain?

The Hound is The Mountain’s little brother.

OK, so the Hound kills Cersei while he's after his older brother.

Why do people dislike Sam and Gilly? Besides Brienne and Podrick, they're the only ones I'd be comfortable around.

What is the Mountain supposed to have done to the septa? What did Cersei have him do to her?

Rape, torture, mutilation, pain, yadda yadda yadda.

I like Sam. The first time he had sex with Gilly was pretty funny. 'Oh my'...

Pod is adorable

The climate change collective action problem is so blatant now. Love it.

I like that theory, R266, because yes - Jamie is Cersei's legal next of kin, since her bastard baby can't inherit. If she dies and Jamie lives and marries Brienne, and the Targaryans don't claim the throne... Jamie and Brienne could be king and queen of Westeros. Or Tyrion and Sansa could be king and queen of Westeros.

And hey - if the Night's King wants an incest baby as a sacrifice, they should give him Cercei's! That'd solve a whole ton of problems in one go.

[quote]Jaime might die, but not before he knocks Brienne up. It 100% plays into her being the ‘younger, more beautiful’ one

Brienne of fucking Tarth??? Brienne is supposed to be the "younger more beautiful Queen" who will take away all that Cersei holds dear? Have you even read the books? Jaime and Brienne as King and Queen?

Some of these theories are straight up ridiculous.

The younger more beautiful queen is Dany obviously. I think the Night King is targeting Bran. I believe they're connected somehow. Some fans believe Bran will do a time travel thing and turn into the Night KIng. I don't share that theory. But I do believe there's some kind of connection there.

When Jaime arrives at Winterfell he'll have to do some serious groveling. He killed Dany's father, mocked and derided Jon for joining the Night's Watch, he pushed Bran out of a window and made him a cripple for life, and he'll get no love from Varys. So he has Bronn, if Bronn shows up, Tyrion, and Brienne. I expect Jaime and Brienne to declare their love for one another, but no sex. They have a very deep bond.

Wonder how it will go for Sansa and Tyrion and Gendry and Arya. I'm looking forward to the final season way too much.

I still feel that there will be about three people left at the end in Westeros and they will all be Starks.

Jaime and Brienne will do a pre-last battle boning. She has to lose her v-card. And Jaime has to be shown to be completely over cersei.

I wonder if euron and cersei will hook up.

Bran will hold the Iron Throne. I know this.

I want all the Starks to survive. I Want Jon, Dany, Jaime, Brienne, Tormund, Gendry, Tyrion, The Hound, Sam, GIlly, Little Sam, Ser Jorah and Ser Davos, and Missandei and Grey Worm, and Little Lyanna Mormont to live. Everyone else can die. Yes, Beric,Bronn, Podrick, all gone. Bye, bye.

I hope it's Tormund who ends up on the throne. That would be hilarious.

King's Landing would soon be overrun with redheaded bastards

"When Jaime arrives at Winterfell he'll have to do some serious groveling."

Not as much as you think, because he brings so much political capital with him. He was Cersei's #1 supporter and he's deserted that sinking ship, which sends a great big honking message to all the power players of Westeros, that Cersei is failing and the Targaryans are coming back!

I don't think he and Brienne will bone without marrying, remember she's a virgin and he's never been with any woman but Cersei, so I think they'll marry just before a battle with Dany's approval - because that's another political victory for her.

The only marriage that'll happen is Dany & Jon, because she is going to be pregnant. I will bet you my grandfather's Cadillac.

R281 it's probably going to be closer to 3 survive and 19 die. Might have to pare down your 'keep' list a little.

My top five I hope survive:

Tyrion (gets the throne. that'd be a pretty big middle finger to everyone who ever mocked him)

The Hound (Stays in Winterfell after destroying The Mountain)

Davos (does whatever the fuck he wants)

Sansa (don't necessarily like her, but she's the logical Stark to run Winterfell, have kids, and keep the Stark line alive)

Little Lady Mormont (Badass. Needs to rule Bear Island)

+1 would be Bronn. He'd go back down to KL with Tyrion and be Hand of the King. Tyrion needs a buddy.

Arya's a fool if she doesn't bang Gendry well and often when they reunite.

[R286]

After Winterfell is breached in Episode 3, the WW and wights will kill many inhabitants. In a scene reminiscent of "Hardhome" the NK will raise his hands and raised the dead. One of those is Gendry - he is the one chasing her in opening scene in the trailer. Heartbreaking. Arya also finds overwhelmed with undead and two more appear to be chasing her.

...buuuut do they bang before he turns?

I want to see him as naked as possible

R286, I am not convinced that Arya likes dick, or ever will.

I don't want to see wight Hodor but it would not surprise me if he showed up. That's something I would include it if I was the show runner. Make it hurt as much as possible.

[quote]Uncle Benjen will probably show up again- that guy always pops up

Waste of precious airtime if they did. No one cares if he shows up or not. It was a bit deflating when he was the one who got Jon out of trouble. When you give the character very little to do throughout the run of the series, people lose interest in that character and when they show up, the reaction is "meh."

Yeah, I liked when he helped bran and meera, but it was silly when he saved Jon.

R287 OMG, I SO hope you're wrong. It does look like Gendry behind her. I watched the running sequence a dozen times. Looks like Arya is either trying to warn others or that she is trying to lure what ever is behind her. There is a lot of urgency in her expression, but it isn't the kind of fearful expression of a victim. It's more like she's fearful she won't succeed? Hard to explain. It's not "Fear, fear."

There are obviously rules to how it all works, but in certain sequences I See the zombies tearing people apart and possibly "eating them." But not always. And we now know if you kill a White Walker the zombies "die." If I were Jon, Jaime, Bronn, Tyrion, etc. trying to set up the defense I'd get some pitch and some wildfire and set it up in the forests and clearing around Winterfell, and set those fuckers on fire. Now we saw at HArdhome that ordinary fire doesn't kill the White Walkers, just the zombies. But Dragon fire ought to kill all those fuckers. Allegedly it was so hot it melted Harrenhal, so why the fuck not.

IDGAF except we need to see Podrick’s legendary cock before he dies. This should be top priority.

Pod's cock is normal sized. He just knows how to use it well.

Wouldn't be remiss to show it off anyway

[quote]Uncle Benjen will probably show up again- that guy always pops up Waste of precious airtime if they did. No one cares if he shows up or not. It was a bit deflating when he was the one who got Jon out of trouble. When you give the character very little to do throughout the run of the series, people lose interest in that character and when they show up, the reaction is "meh."

Not for me. I loved each time Benjen popped up to get the Stark kids out of trouble. The genius casting and the early writing on the show made it so that even characters with relatively small amounts of screen time resonated with some viewers because the actors brought so much to the characters. I loved Benjen and the Blackfish Tully.

Arya’s faceless assassin skills won’t be of much use against walkers. She’s going to have a bit of an ego check.

R276 Cersei is a fucking moron. Every time she plots something, she digs a bigger hole for herself. She was convinced Margaery was the ‘Younger, more beautiful Queen’ before, and now of course she’s going to BELIEVE Dany is the one to ‘take all she holds dear.’ Who’s the one person she won’t suspect because she’s the ugliest woman in Westeros? Naturally, it’s Brienne because Cersei believes a woman’s worth lies in how physically attractive they are and how they can use what’s between their legs. What she hasn’t come to terms with is that, when facing down a bunch of apocalyptic ice zombies, sword skills are more valued and valuable than a pretty face.

Why are people so wilfully fucking blind when it comes to them? GRRM has said that they’re based on Beauty and the Beast, the show version of which he used to write for. The whole bath tub scene in the books where Jaime gets a boner when looking at Brienne is also loosely based on an encounter with his own wife years before they got together, while he was still with someone else. It’s fine if people don’t like it, but there’s a clear romantic blueprint there. If you’ve read George’s ‘Dunk and Egg’ stories set in the ASOIAF universe, you’ll know that he’s very at ease with writing gore and romantic subplots side by side. (Incidentally, Brienne is very likely a descendent of both main characters.)

Jaime and Brienne ruling in some capacity really isn’t that implausible either. As soon as Cersei loses that baby, and she will, Jaime is next in line to the throne. Brienne is also said to have Targ blood through a fairly recent relative. (Probably one of Egg’s and Maester Aemon’s sisters.) IF they both survive and marry, then they’re going to be considered war heroes, and certainly contenders to be singled out to rule should a Great Council be called to decide how Westeros is governed after the war. Dany and Jon are the biggest barriers to that. Daario pretty much signposted her as an unsuitable leader when he said she was ‘a conqueror, not a ruler’, and Jon is clueless about anything that isn’t in the North and politically inept.

There isn't time to fully explore a Brienne and Jamie relationship. If they even kiss that would be momentous. With so many of my favorite characters killed off and so much bad that has happened to all the characters on the show I am not holding out for a happy ending for Jamie.

R299 mmm GRRM boner. What a sexy thought.

Jaime looking fine in r300 though

Already feel like this season is going to be rushed. Wish it would have lasted a couple more years.

I feel like Cersei is crying in the trailer because she learns Jaime is dead. The White Walkers hit Winterfell in episode three, so I think that at least half the cast will die in that episode. Then there will be at least one major character dying in each subsequent episode.

[[R295]]

During the battle of WF Podrick fights well, Podrick fights valiantly and Podrick dies.

Other deaths in Episodes 3 & 4 -- Ghost, Drogon, and possibly Missandei. She may die here or a little later. But, Greyworm survives, his girl dies. (Old trope, remember Mrs. Miniver.) Tormund, Beric and Jaime may also perishing in WF. Altho Tormund and Beric perish in an earlier battle.

No word yet on Lyanna Mormont or Jorah.

[[R303]] You may be correct that the later shot of Cersei drinking is after she learns of Jaime's death. Some people think she is drinking moon tea (a GOT abortifacient) to get rid of his baby.

^^^Tormund, Beric and Jaime may also perish in WF. Altho Tormund and Beric may perish in an earlier battle.

The only person who has never killed anybody is probably Gilly.

I'm pretty sure that Jon and Dany aren't both surviving, either one of them dies or both do. I'm also pretty sure that either Tyrion or Jamie dies, and if one of them dies the other one lives. So that means that the next monarch of Westeros is either Dany, Jon, Jamie, or Tyrion. Or the Night's King, but those four humans are the only one with any sort of dynastic claim to the throne.

Dany and Jon are getting married, duh, it's both personal and political for both of them. If Jamie is the last man standing he'll grab onto Brienne and marry her, and if it's Tyrion he'll probably re-marry Sansa. In the books, there's a moment during their brief marriage when he thinks that she'd make a terrific queen, they have similar minds so they'll be able to work together as rulers, and neither will have any illusions about their relationship. Plus Sansa knows that he's one of the few possible husbands who won't hurt her or rape her, because Tyrion was actually being pressured to rape her by his family, and he wouldn't.

Jon and Dany are doomed as they're an incestuous coupling. All incestuous couplings die.

I hope Lyanna Mormont is offed as soon as possible. That little bitch annoys the fuck out of me.

Jaime has been on a redemption arc and it will end with him dying, whether he kills Cersei first or sacrifices his life to save Brienne, he's gonna die.

Of all of them, Tyrion will be alive at the end. I know the books tried to subvert the hero trope but the books were outrun a couple seasons ago and the plot is in the hands of tv writers.

Bran...I heard a theory that he goes back in time to be the builder of the wall.

[307]"but those four humans are the only one with any sort of dynastic claim to the throne."

From a legal standpoint, Gendry has the best claim if he can prove he is Robert Baratheon son, especially if he the black-haired baby Cersei got rid early on. However, the throne will be won right of conquest. Lawyers be damned.

Who lives? So far I know only of Gilly and....someone who was there and marked for death from the beginning:Theon.

I think Yara Greyjoy will live. Theon will die saving her.

R304 what have you heard about the Hound? Is there a Hound/Mountain fight and they both die?

How about Brienne, Davos, or Varys?

Nobody knows anything. There have been NO leaks for this season. So...anyone claiming special knowledge is lying. There are plenty of educated guesses though.

Is that what the men of the Night Watch get up to, r315?

[[R313]] Hound and Mtn - Cleganbowl is hyped and they are expected to die in KL. So the Hound survives the battle of WF. The Hound's death is closely under wraps; IDK how it goes down. There are some - let's call them green areas - areas hyped but no evidence of how it happens.

Varys dies - Melisandre said so in S7, so does she. Again how it goes down - green area.

Brienne survives Jaime, who dies in WF or the escape from WF. I don't believe he gets to KL.

I don't have inside information. But I do know how to sleuth the Internet and I am in contact w/people who know more. People who brightened the trailer from HBO website and posted it before HBO took it down. I also search the HBO trailer in Russian which delivers sound much better; not as muted. You can hear what Jaime is yelling on the battlements. We pull metadata from the photos, e.g. that photo Jon shows surveying the breastworks of GOT. We follow industry press and know Jaime's actor NCW sued to be paid for the whole season although he was not in all of it. That kind of detective work.

What did Jaime yell? It kind of sounded like 'Bronn'.

""but those four humans are the only one with any sort of dynastic claim to the throne."

"From a legal standpoint, Gendry has the best claim if he can prove he is Robert Baratheon son, "

Again, this is Westeros, where bastards can't inherit diddly unless they're legally legitimized by the monarch, as Ramsay was. So my guess is that someone else becomes king, and he or she is so grateful to Gendry for being a war hero that he's declared legitimate and giving control of the Baratheon Stormlands. Which will be more than enough trouble for someone uneducated and unused to authority, that boy would have no clue how to rule a kingdom.

Not that Dany, Jon, Jamie, or Tyrion will be all that great a ruler, but at least they're all used to wielding authority and dealing with clan politics. Although if it's Jon, he'd damn well better have a good Hand of the King.

^ if that happens you know Davos would jump at the chance to assist Gendry run the Stormlands. That guy lives to advise.

I don't think Gendry even wants the power. And for all that Dany has gone through, I don't believe she would give it up to the son of the "usurper". If Dany is killed - which I don't see happening - I can envision her last act being one which she destroys the wheel and empowers all the territories around the kingdom to return to being sovereign territories.

I like the idea of her dragon melting the throne. That'd be dope.

I only care about the hot bearded guy that Khaleesi abandoned back at the pyramid.

[[R318]]

In the Russian trailer, he clearly yells Bronn. According to the Russian, the dubbing group works with the text not the audio and they clarify background noises. E.g. In the RU, the marching of the Unsullied is louder and more ominous.

In French trailer, they translated that line as "retreat."

Other people heard "Run" in the English.

I'd be surprised if it is Bronn.

If Dany doesn’t die I will be disappointed.

Dany will die. Emilia said that she was “disappointed “ by her character’s end. I doubt she would say that if she survives to the end to sit on the iron throne.

Works for me!✔️

Thanks r324 I didn't even think of 'run' but that makes sense.

Where did Emilia say she was disappointed, R326? I'd like to read it.

I read it too. Emilia did an interview shortly after she wrapped and she was trying very hard ...and failing...to hide her disappointment.

But I had another theory about the deaths: Every "honorable man get killed. So Ned, Robb, and Jon. Jon is an "honorable man" and Sansa was telling him he had to be smarter than Robb or her father and she was right. And Beric and Jon had that conversation about why they'd been called back to life.. Beric said, "Death always wins but we have to keep fighting." So it may be that Jon dies and Dany survives. IM, they both die. She will die being reckless and courageous, Jon will die being reckless and courageous....but they have a son. And IMO Missandei and Davos or Jorah, or maybe all three survive to raise the kid. I believe Jaime will die, but I feel like he is too important to kill off right away. I think they need to keep him alive until at least Episode 5.

Previous Leaks (that were wiped from internet..)

Viserion kills Rhaegal at WF

Drogon kills Viserion at WF

Bran kills Night King which kills all he created

Dany dies in chilbirth

Misandry protects and raises Dany's daughter

Arya kills Cersei with poisoned wine

Drogon is wounded at KL by army spears and sets off wildfire under the city with its dying breath. The blast kills everyone including army, Jaime, Jon, Jorah and other favorites...

That ending would be awful r331.

What's WF?

Oh winterfell

Winterfell.

I think no one sits on the Iron throne. It will be destroyed. No queens and kings. Everyone is free.

Can Bran still warg?

So...none of the writers worked on the last season of LOST, have they?

They must've had a shit ton of wildfire in Kings Landing. They used it for the Battle of Blackwater Bay, Cersei used it to blow up the sept, and now maybe the dragon uses it to roast everyone.

It would suck to kill everyone that way and it might be too similar to the Sept fire. But, I think the Hound at least will die by fire.

They better not end it by just blowing everybody up in a fire. That would be the laziest ending ever.

Perhaps Cersei was crying in the trailer because she knew the wine she was drinking was poisoned?

I agree that no one will sit the iron throne, or that it will be irrelevant because there were only be a few humans left in Westeros. And not the right combination to reproduce.

I so want Cersei to give birth to a monster baby.

r341 may be onto something.

She may have poisoned her wine.

Remember during the battle of black water bay? She almost poisoned herself and the children.

She might do that now to avoid capture or being killed by Dany or any of the others.

I really hope that the Iron Throne isn't destroyed and nobody is king at the end, because that would make life in Westeros worse, not better.

Sure, all the recent monarchs have sucked, but if you take away the monarch, what do you get? Endless warfare between the seven-to-nine kingdoms! The lack of a king doesn't make anyone "free" except the rulers of the seven kingdoms, it's a feudal society and nobody is free except at the very top, nobody. And taking away the kind wouldn't change that, it'd just mean more fighting and more dying and more scorched Earth and more homeless refugees. So yeah, I hope there's a king and/or queen in King's Landing at the end, and I hope it's someone with brains! Or if it's Jon, I hope to hell he has good advisers to handle the politics for him.

So the leaker didn't mention Tyrion. IMO there is going to be a big betrayal. Tyrion will betray Dany, Dany, Bran & Jon find out, and Dany fries him.

[[R318]]

The Russians are less likely to change something HBO left in. Notice there was no Bronn in trailer. There are rumors about Bronn. If he is there, that not good for our guys. Remember how he told Jaime (after the loot train) he wasn't fighting Dragons because fighting is business. Also Tyrion told Bronn before the Dragonpit meeting that he would double whatever Bronn is being paid.

The rumor confirmed is that Bronn switches sides to help Tyrion after Jaime goes North. This is tied the Tyrion betrayal rumors.

Found a brighter Lord of Light edition of the trailer on reddit. Hope you can see it.

How would Tyrion betray Dany? By siding with Cersei? Does he not want Dany to rule Westeros?

R348, I've posted about this before and it's my own personal theory. No leaks. But we know a few things. Tyrion has a high opinion of himself he thinks he is a great strategist and a critically important advisor. He told Cersei Dany was going to be a great ruler because she listened to him and he was able to curb her worst impulses. He told Dany practically the same thing to her face, when he accused her of being impulsive for killing the Tarleys. So he's established himself as a superior being and believes basically, that if Dany allows him to guide her he will make her a great queen. IMO ever Joffrey, I think Tyrion has believed he'd make a better king than any of them. So Ambition and Ego are gradually asserting themselves in Tyrion. He was also clearly very deeply upset by the Loot Train attack and it's results.

Second, Dany has told him and anyone else who passes by, "You know I can't have children. The dragons are my only children. Blah Blah Blah." He argues with her about the succession, and worries about it, and pressures her about it. He keeps trying to stop her from riding her dragons because it's too dangerous, etc. When he meets with Cersei he discovers she is pregnant. After they meet privately, Cersei appears to change her mind about helping the North against the AoD. What happened to make her change? Did Tyrion confide that Dany can't have kids, and he promises Cersei her own baby will be ruler one day? IMO this may very well set up the dynamics of betrayal.

[[R349]]

That's the current theory re Tyrion's betrayal.

Jaime can't die! He's my favorite character. I wanted him to survive and ride off to manage High Garden with Brienne. I was thinking Dorne for Bronn, and Ser Jorah gets Dragonstone when Jon and Dany run off to King's Landing. Gendry, Sansa, Arya, and Bran have King's Landing and Ser Davos, Missandei, Grey Worm, and Varys are with Jonaerys. Samwell and GIlly will take over the Tarley holdings. Everyone else will die.

Sweet summer child^

I meant that Gendry, Sansa, Arya and Bran hold Winterfell. The heart wants what it wants, R352!!!

The way it ends is that GRRM is sitting at his desk in his library at his home in New Mexico, and David Benioff and Daniel Weiss are sitting with him, and arguing about the ending, all of them having different versions, including who lives and who dies. And then Kit Harington rings the door bell and he says, "Fuck it! This is crap! I'm not doing it!" and he flings a thick script at them and leaves.

The final episode is a cross over from The Walking Dead.

Don't even mention the Walking Dead in the same breath. Blechhhh

Arya better live. Or, live long enough to kill Cersei.

I'd like Jamie to live, but I doubt he will. Brienne better live, though!

I'd also like Dany and Jon to live, but I'll get over it if they don't.

But Brienne better live.

I only want Cersei to live.

I hope she kills the rest like she did that dreadful Margaery.

If Cersei lives I will do a Tommen.

Arya will probably kill her. That would be fitting.

Be even better if she does it using Jaime's face.

How was Margaery dreadful? WTF...?

She was a cunt who only cared about being a queen. She denounced her gay brother.

Are you a woman all identifying with her or something?

r362 bitch what?? Have we been watching the same tv show?

Margaery committed perjury for Loras, saying that she never saw him and Olyvar together even though she did. Because she protected her brother, she went to prison, was tortured by the Sparrows and essentially left to rot. The only way out for her was to play the High Sparrow's game and become a religious repenter (which worked by the way to get her out of prison). Then, after she was back in the Red Keep with Tommen and Olenna, she had no obligation to help Loras and could have easily left him to die in there. But instead (noticing a pattern here?) she made a deal with the High Sparrow for Loras's freedom if he confessed. And then once she realized that Cersei was planning something and that they were most likely going to die, all she wanted to do was leave with Loras or at the very least spend their last moments together.

At which part in all of this did she "denounce" him? He was the sole heir to House Tyrell and Highgarden (in the show). There was no way in which she or Olenna would ever turn their backs on him, even if they wanted to. And clearly, neither of them did.

That was awesome r363.

r364, kisses!

🍷back at ya !

Margarey was a fairly awful human being, being ruthless, manipulative, cold-blooded, sly, dishonest, and egotistical. But that's what if takes to be a great queen! Margarey would have been a terrific queen, in fact, she was the last person who could have saved the Baratheon dynasty.

She even made Tommen happy, and could have made Joffrey behave. Well, some.

R362 is low-IQ. Comprehends very little.

[quote] Margaery was a fairly awful human being, being ruthless, manipulative, cold-blooded, sly, dishonest, and egotistical.

Really, R367?! You sound so sweet and innocent. Do you live in the Midwest? Are you a hot farmboy? Because she's no different from a plurality of people I know: ambitious, performative, strategic, but ultimately humane. Like certain politicians I admire (H).

She at least played fairly and without violence. Cersei tossed over the gameboard.

Margaery is liberal, striving cosmopolitanism incarnate. She's like everyone at Yale 😂

Honestly, wow re R362. He couldn't have been watching and actually paying attention. No one's that dense.

oooo r360, that would be great. But Jaime would have to be dead, right? Died saving Brienne's life...

Who's left on Arya's kill list?

Well, at one point in an earlier Season (2 Ithink) She had The Mountain on her list.

One of the early leakers claimed that Arya and The Hound would go down to King's Landing so she could kill Cersei and he could take out The Mountain. I have no idea if it is true. The only reason I think Jaime dies is because he famously told Bronn he wanted to die in the arms of the woman he loved. And I believe he was thinking of Brienne when he said that. Then there was that time he and Bronn were on their way to Dorne and they passed the island where Brienne's family lived and Jaime looked at it longingly.

I could go for one last Arya/Hound road trip. I enjoyed them together in season 4.

I believe that leak and I think they will both be successful in killing their targets. But then they will both die. Hound for sure.

Ilyn Payne, Mountain, Cersei, Beric Dondarrion, and Melisandre are still on Arya's list. I hope she takes out Ilyn Payne while she's in KL.

The actor who played him died of cancer and he is no longer there. Illyn Payne.

I believe there will be a sequence as they battle White Walkers, where a weeping Jon Snow i going to have to destroy someone he cares about. It might be Ser Davos, Edd, Tormund, even Uncle BenJen, Arya or Sansa, but someone will turn into a wight with those blue eyes and Jon will have to burn them and he'll cry about it. Just wait. And of course we'll see Hodor. Maybe Jaime will turn blue -eyed and brienne will have to kill him while she weeps.... At least that's how I'd direct it....

R375, I think he's still alive.

Jons sad moment has to involve Ghost. Maybe he sees ghost turn into a wight and has to put him down

Burn in hell for even suggesting that, R377!

If every human on this show dies, but Ghost makes it out ok, I'll be satisfied.

r204 I can accept everyone dying except Dany and Sansa. In terms of who deserves to survive until the end those two above all others have done the best they could with what they were given. So far neither have gone "dark" although Sansa seems like she's on the edge of wilding out and killing some folks who stand in her way, but we will see. Also would love to see Brienne survive.

Dany has been noble. She has been wrong and accepted it. She has been defeated and regrouped and triumphed. She has freed the unfortunate, rewarded the worthy (Tyrion being one) and kept her heart open to love. She has been forgiving (Jorah). What fucking else could you ask from a hero yet still there are so many who despise her character. Says a lot about human beings doesn't it and it's not good.

Another vote for a Hound and Arya road trip to kill Cersei. They have great chemistry.

I've been re watching the series, and I've decided that I can't stand Theon or anything related to him. He betrays Robb. FIne. That should've been the end of him. Ramsey kills him. But no. They draw it out and keep torturing him, and break him and make him some new creature and he has a whole story line. I think if I had to tell them to eliminate one thing it would be Theon and his storyline. He is such a pitiful ass.

I'm with you R381. Can't fucking stand Theon. And Alfie Allen is so hideous I can't stand looking at his face.

I felt bad for Theon after the whole Reek experience. It’s nice he and Yara are working together.

"What fucking else could you ask from a hero yet still there are so many who despise her character. Says a lot about human beings doesn't it and it's not good. "

Well, R379, whenever Danerys is asked to make a decision she makes a decision that agrees with our modern moral codes, shes forgiving and against slavery and for responsible government etc etc. But she also starts campaigns of conquest that get thousands of people killed and which do NOT agree with our modern moral codes! So some people hold that against her, the ones who don't understand that the moral code of Westeros differs from our own when it comes to campaigns of conquest. And of course, there's definitely some sexism in the fandom.

As for Theon, I can't stand him, and I can't stand anyone else from the Iron Islands. I wish to fucking God the whole place had been left out of the story expecially the repulsive Theon.

Yara's okay. The rest of the Greyjoys suck

"Ilyn Payne, Mountain, Cersei, Beric Dondarrion, and Melisandre are still on Arya's list. I hope she takes out Ilyn Payne while she's in KL."

Didn't she already kill Ilyn Payne? In a whorehouse in Essos? He liked very young girls and she arranged to be chosen.

Can't remember why Beric is on her list. She was traveling with The Hound and met up with him one night but what did he do to piss her off so much? Same with Melisandre, she deserves to die for her part in the death of Stannis's daughter but when did Arya cross paths with her?

That was Meryn Trant in the brothel.

Melisandre met Arya while she was pretending to be a boy. They had a short but intense scene together. When Melisandre took Gendry (to 'drain' for royal blood), that's when Arya added her to the list.

I think Mel will die and somehow Arya will end up with that magical necklace.

All this talk about longer episodes in the final season but the opener is only 58 minutes long and one is 80 minutes. Damn.

Alfie's ugly but he's not afraid to show his dick unlike some actors.

R386 Beric is on Arya's list because he sold Gendry to Melisandre. He needed the money to keep the Brotherhood without Banners running. Thoros of Myr was also on her list but he dead now.

If she does see Melisandre and Beric again I doubt she'd kill them. They're allies against the dead, Mel brought Jon back, and Gendry is alive. That might help Arya leave them alone.

Cersei is the one she cares about.

Thanks for the updates. I agree Cersei is her main target. Consulting the wikia which I should have done before, Ilyn Payne was mentioned in S4 but hasn't actually been seen since S2 (the actor was ill). I think Arya would make him a priority as well.

It'd be cool if Arya ran into him in KL as well. Ran into him with Needle.

ha

If Arya comes to King's Landing, they might take five seconds to say that Payne was killed in the Battle of the Blackwater, or lived next to the Sept of Baylor. And Arya is smart enough to hold off on killing Melisandre until The Dead are dealt with, if she can be of any use, such as bring the promised army of warrior fire-priests.

Because the latest promo shows frost coating the northerly part of a relief map of Westeros, and fire doing the same but coming from the south, and for all this talk of Fire And Ice, we haven't seen much from the Fire side.

I doubt it will be an issue. As I re watched, in Season 3 episode 2, Jojen Reed and Bran are chatting as they head north, and Jojen tells bran the 3 Eyed Raven can see into the future as well as the past and the present. So far we haven't seen Bran see into the future.

New season coming means lots of hot NCW magazine features.

Effortless. He doesn't even have to try. Damn he's hot.

.... it's a professional photo shoot r396. There is nothing effortless about it dear.

More!

Where's pretty Kit????? Hi, Pretty!!!!

Less than a month to go! Who lives, who dies??? I say everyone. Valor Morgulis!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So there are only three top houses left, and one lesser house: The Targaryens, the Starks and the Lannisters are the three top houses, and the Greyjoys are the secondary house still standing. Everyone else is gone: No more Tyrells, or Martells, or Tarleys, or Baratheons, no Freys, no Boltons. They're all gone.

Forgot the Mormonts. Lyanna and Jorah.

R401 Isn't Gendry a Baratheon?

And doesn't Brienne of Tarth count for at least a secondary house?

Edmure Tully is still around and he has a son. I don't think House Tully is a top house, but it's definitely second tier.

..but I'm sure they will be eradicated in short order

R401, the Tullys could still be resurrected, if anyone cares to get Edmure out of prison and give him one of the seven kingdoms back - because yes the Tullys ARE one of the seven great families. And I'm sure there are other Martells out there, Oberon's ex had no right to rule anyway, the eldest Sand Snake was the rightful heir and now her nearest living relative inherits.

And the Mormonts and the Tarths are bannerman houses, secondary to the great lords of the seven kingdoms. The Tarlys have just jumped up to rule of the seven kingdoms, they were bannermen a few months ago.

No love for Robin Arryn?

R401 Gendry is Robert Baratheon's son, yes. But he's a bastard and isn't recognized as a legitimate heir. He's just Gendry Waters.

The king or queen would have to legitimize him for him to be a true Baratheon.

I hope Robin Arryn has grown into a capable fighter/leader/person since his mother and Petyr died and Yohn Royce became basically his guardian. I would love to see him mature into a decent little Lord.

But I think he's going to be the same little whiny brat he's always been.

Well they can't all be noble and capable. Need to have a few Joffrey's to hate. Anyway, he's still a kid, not that much time has passed.

Robyn needs to remain awful. He will be devastated by the death of Littlefinger.

[quote]the legend of Azor Ahai

Is this mentioned in the TV show, or just the books?

love you, r299

The people I am concerned about are Sansa and the Hound (whom I want to marry), Brienne and Jaime (whom I want to marry), and Tyrion and Daario.

Sansa ruling in the North, Jaime and Brienne ruling in the South.

r413

i don't think that's impossible. i believe sansa and arya will end up as ned said. ned told arya she will marry and her children will rule (paraphrasing), he told sansa she will marry a knight (not a prince) - and sandor has been a knight for sansa in many ways: literally as well as the one person who never let her down. i also want sansa and sandor to end up together and i believe they will... or were supposed to in grrm's books, not sure where the show people are going with these characters.

and jaime was sitting on the iron throne when ned confronted him - and when the post-rebellion story began (well, it began earlier but you know)... and i think it would be nice if he ended up sitting there for real with his young and (on the inside) beautiful queen brienne by his side.

btw brienne the beautiful queen idea is similar to my - now doomed - pet theory... i thought shireen would be the younger and more beautiful queen, probably as jon's wife... but that was a long time ago.

i also believe that theon may end up ruling the iron islands. if he does, he has heirs, too... because i don't believe those scenes and snippets in the early books about his irresponsible womanizing were there for nothing... i believe he has kids he doesn't know about.

Season 8 will be 432 minutes long. If each episode were 54 minutes, it'd have eight episodes. Instead they're doing six. So I don't think it'll be rushed.

Why would they even rush things when they've taken two years to finish this season?

The AV Club has introduced this delightful "Month of Thrones" feature where they look back at 30 of its essential moments and what its reviewers said about them at the time.

Sam is still alive, so the Tarleys aren't dead, yet... I can't determine (and I don't really care about) Sam's fate. I feel like he's kind of a throwaway character on one hand, but if this "world" is going to rebuild itself after the war, they'll need someone like him.

Sam will stay alive and serve as a Maester who will record the events of the battle between the White Walkers and humans.

Yeah, seems a role Sam is suited to do.

Sam will never be a Maester, he has more important things to do, like defeat the Others, marry Gilly, and rule the Reach. He will, however, write the definitive history of the War Between the Living and the Dead.

And I do not see Hound marrying Sansa, or surviving the war, for that matter. He has a deeply hidden romantic side which Sansa would crush, not to mention that he hates the airs and graces of the upper class, while she cherishes them. He'd be better off with Arya, who has so much in common with him, if he doesn't die in the inevitable Clegane Bowl. In which, BTW, I predict that Frankenmountain will crumble to dust when he's killed, thereby fulfilling the 1st season prophecy that "... when mountains crumble into dust, you [Dany] will bear a living child".

Arya and together Hound would be hilarious just for the optics. She's tiny and he's huge. But I see them more as buddies.

I think they will both die anyway.

Sansa will live

I see Arya becoming head of the Kings Guard for Jon and Dany. I See Gendry getting with Sansa, and I See Brienne surviving Jaime and taking over High Garden.

Plothole!! Re-watching Season 4. After Joffrey dies, and Littlefinger spirits Sansa onto his boat in the harbor in the fog, he shows her how her necklace was fake and even smashes one of the stones with his dagger to demonstrate to her how they got the poison in to Joffrey's wine cup. Littlefinger and Sansa then sail off to the Eyerie so he can marry Lisa Arryn.

Later, at Tyrion's trial for Joffrey's murder, Maester Pycelle has the necklace at the trial and shows how there's a missing stone which contained the poison that killed Joffrey. He claims it was found on Ser Donta's body. The guy Littlefinger shot with a crossbow.

Littlefinger threw the necklace into the boat with Dontos' body where it landed on him.

Fine, R424, but how would they connect Dontas and the necklace to Joffrey's murder? There were hundreds of people and servants milling around at the wedding, Sir Dontas didn't stand out, and that necklace was a piece of junk compared to the jewels of the high born women at the event. It just seemed so random. And who'd kill Dontas with a crossbow ? It If they were connecting it to Sansa, obviously someone helped her escape. So who? If it was Tyrion, why didn't he run too, instead of standing there watching Joffrey die ?

I want to add that in the TV version, poison is associated with those tiny vials like the one Cersei had when she was prepared to kill Tommen and herself during the Siege of King's Landing by Stannis, or like the vial Jaime used to poison Olenna. Not with secreting them in a stone on a necklace. To discover them in a stone from a necklace seems like a reach, unless you knew in advance. Joffrey's cup was sitting on the table near Olenna. Both Tywin and Tyrion would have been smart enough, after the fact, to figure out who had the proximity and the motive to kill him. As Jaime pointed out much later, Olenna had the most to gain from killing Joffrey.

[R420] Interesting take. Who made the prophecy in season one? Was it in one of the dothraki scenes?

R420

[quote]He has a deeply hidden romantic side which Sansa would crush, not to mention that he hates the airs and graces of the upper class, while she cherishes them.

I think she’s over that.

Jamie/Brienne and Sansa/The Hound are both Beauty And The Beast tales in reverse.

Jamie is more beautiful than Brienne, and Sansa’s soul which if not Beastly in S1 was certainly Gaston-like, melds with Sandor Clegane’s honesty and reverse nobility.

The witch who killed Kal Drogo said that to Dany. I forgot she said that about the mountains crumbling into dust. I guess The Hound or Arya will need Valeryian steel to kill the Mountain. He seems like he is half dead already.

I was re watching and there's a fight scene between Jon Snow and one of the White Walkers, the skeletal guys with long grey hair, and he picked Jon up and threw him across the room. So they have superhuman strength, and they are immune to fire. Because the episode at Hardhome the White Walker walked right through the fire. The only thing that finally killed him was Valerian steel.

Oh. On another subject, Jojen Reed could see into the future. So if he could BRann can because Brann has even more powers than Jojen had.

The ending will supposedly focus on girl power. Very sad if true. Most of the female characters who are beloved will live and thrive. Their male counterparts will die. I hope that these are only rumors.

I was kind of worried that would happen r431. Arya, Sansa, Dany, Brienne, yara, Lyanna Mormont, Missandrei all survive and Jon, Jaime, Grey Worm, Gendry, Hound, Tormund, etc. all die.

I hope it's a mix and some from both groups get killed.

I thought Olenna poisoned herself to thwart Jaime and Cersei and right before she died, she told him that she was the one who poisoned Joffrey.

But who can remember, so much has happened.

No, R433, they had a conversation, and Olenna asked Jaime how they would do it. He said Cersei wanted to drag her through the streets and hang her, etc. but he persuaded Cersei that poison would be best. Then Olenna asked him if it would be quick. He said yes, poured out the little vial into her wine glass, and she drank it down.

Then, she dropped the bomb, remember? She said she didn't want it to be like Joffrey, turning purple and choking, etc. "But you see, I had never seen the poison work before..." That's when Nicolaj Coster Waldau did some of his best acting. No words, just the look on his face as it dawned on him she was confessing:" Tell Cersei. I want her to know it was me!"

I loved that scene. Of course their entire conversation was just some incredible acting. Great writing too. The dialogue was so sharp and so smart.

I was re watching Jaime and Brienne scenes. Some great stuff there too. All this time, neither Lena Heady nor NCW has gotten the attention they deserve for some incredible acting. Peter Dinklage seems to overshadow Nic. I know Lena's been nominated for Emmys but she hasn't won anything and she deserves to, because her Cersei is iconic now.

Thanks r434. I love Diana Rigg so I was sad to see her go but yes, that was a great scene. (Same with Charles Dance's exit).

I'm not a big fan of Lena Headley though. She reminds me too much of Keira K. , acting with her teeth. Plus all the "mah children!" dialogue is tedious ( that's due to the writers). I don't find her relationship with Jaime convincing, no chemistry whatsoever.

R435 I'd argue they do have chemistry but it's of a different kind - they are siblings, twins. They are in love with each other but hate that they are. They have this incestuous infatuation but know it's wrong. The chemistry the actors bring is very convincing in that the characters don't actually like each other very much; they're siblings and lovers and have children together, but they often disagree.

I'm a fan of Lena Headley. At least in that I'm a gamer and would adore her being a fairly common voice actress in my games.

In regards to Girl Power.. well, if the ending has most major male characters dead while all or almost all of this list surviving (and with power): Daenerys, Sansa, Arya, Sansa, Cersei (?eh, not sure about this one), Brienne, Yara, Missandei, Gilly, Lyanna (I know she's not major, but she's a prominent 'you go girl!' with even some friends of mine) ... then they should be ready for a shitstorm. And not just from angry Internet nerd boy-men, but from even quarters of feminism who may interpret the matter as a shade of 'men go and die in war, the women must stay at home and knit'. Its one thing to have things like more women hiding in the basements of a castle while an attack is on, but its another to have the narrative go "Yeah women were not so engaged in the matters of epic importance so they happened to make it out safely. tee hee go Queen Dany and her posse!!"

I also brought up the possibility of the theory (which I don't strongly believe, for the record) of Littlefinger actually surviving because of some deal with the Faceless Men that will be revealed later, and a friend went a bit nasty about it because she hates the idea of Sansa being schooled again (I don't thinks he's looking far enough into the possibilities that Sansa could secretly cooperate with the fleeing of Littlefinger, and/or end up more epicly schooling him and others in Season 8). But there's definitely a cohort of audience that simply wants the women to live and win and rule, but we don't know if so many of the creatives behind the show are on board with that.

Some of the men have to survive or there won't be a human race. They have to reproduce. I'm betting Brienne and Lyanna Mormont die I think Dany might die too. But Gilly Arya and Sansa should live. OTOH, Sansa was spending a lot of time off set in the USA with Joe Jonas while GoT was shooting, so I wonder if she dies? I hope not. She and Arya have been through enough shit. I definitely want Missandei to live too. But I have a feeling Grey Worm, Tormund, and Bronn are going to die. I don't want to be mean, but I don't care about the Greyjoys. Yara, Theon, Euron, can all die. Bye, bye. Samwell will live. Edd will die. For some strange reason I picture Jorah and Davos surviving. Jon might survive too, even though his past behavior indicates he will take stupid risks and be the honorable asshole who sacrifices himself for others. Lord please let Jaime live and reproduce with someone. Sansa, Brienne, Missandei, etc.

"[[R420]] Interesting take. Who made the prophecy in season one?"

Miri Maz Duur, the sheep-men priestess who killed said: ""When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he [Drogo] will return, and not before."

Since this is Fantasy genre fiction, there's a good chance that will all come true, although the only way I see for it to happen is for Frankmountain to crumble to dust when he dies and have the bits blow away in the wind. Also, note that the prophecy implies that Dany will both bear a living child, and be re-united with Drogo, presumably in death.

In the second season, the masked lady from that tower of wizardry also prophesied: ". . . three heads has the dragon . . . . . . three fires must you light . . . one for life and one for death and one to love . . . . . . three mounts must you ride . . . one to bed and one to dread and one to love . . . . . . three treasons will you know . . . once for blood and once for gold and once for love . . . " We've seen the first of the two treasons - Miri Maz Duur winning Dany's trust and then killing her husband to revenge her slaughtered and enslaved people, Jorah selling information to Varys for gold and getting banished. But we haven't seen the last betrayal, the one for love, and everyone seems to think it's going to be Tyrion.

Personally I can't see Tyrion actively trying to shaft Danerys, it'd make more sense for him to make a move against Jon Snow, squeeze him out of power before he can marry Dany. Also come to think of it, the logical person for Tyrion to enlist on that front would be his ex-wife Sansa, as Jon is Ned Stark's legitimate heir and Jon has taken over her birthright.

I know the tv show has overtaken the books but did the author make notes about what these prophecies mean?

I know the tv show has overtaken the books but did the author make notes about what these prophecies mean?

Well shit, double post

Regarding "...When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east..." in the prophecy, some people think that was fulfilled by an incident which was in the book and not the TV show: Quentyn Martell, SON and heir of Prince Doran Martell (whose symbol is the SUN), travels to Mereen and gets himself killed. That is, the SON (of the SUN clan) starts out alive in the west and dies in the east.

Personally I don't know if the TV people will bother fulfilling the prophecies, except for the 3rd betrayal. If they do the sun thing, it's more likely to be something prosaic like huge fires that look like the sun rising in the west or setting in the east. Because that's one obvious way to fight the vast armies of the dead, burn the forests they're traveling through.

i suspect the 'when the seas go dry' part doesn't mean that the seas dry up but that they freeze over. they freeze like almost everything else when the undead march towards the king's landing

and yes, have a living baby and then die to go and meet your precious drogo in the afterlife is what's on the cards for dany, it seems. well, it could be worse.

Also, apparently in the books there's a mention that the "sea of grass" where the Dothraki live is going dry, dying and leaving the Dothraki in deep shit.

I don't recall that happening in the show, and in the show they'd better be able to go home, because there's no way you can integrate randomly pillaging nomads into Westeros, at least south of the Wall.

R325 = Cersei Lannister

[quote]I was re watching and there's a fight scene between Jon Snow and one of the White Walkers, the skeletal guys with long grey hair, and he picked Jon up and threw him across the room. So they have superhuman strength, and they are immune to fire. Because the episode at Hardhome the White Walker walked right through the fire. The only thing that finally killed him was Valerian steel.

Damn, I just got chills. I love this scene so hard. Jon gracefully flying through the air and then landing on his back, the sound dropping as he struggles for breath, the clang of metal when their swords meet - I could watch it over and over. Still one of my favorite GoT moments ever.

Fun fact: I never realized before that the stunt guy who played that WW that fought Jon at Hardhome is the same guy who plays the Night King now.

He won’t die, obviously... but I wouldn’t be sad if Gilly and Sam bit it.

I napped every time Gilly, Sam, the Red Witch, the Onion Knight, Ygritte, Mance Raydor and Jon Snow (prior to resurrection and him subsequently kicking ass) appeared on screen.

And it’s not that their storylines were bad either.

Oh! And Talisa, who Robb Stark married. The actress does not do the family name proud. I hate her in everything.

Also Stephen Dillane is not an unattractive man but he was too old to play the middle child between Mark Addy and Gethin Anthony.

It was fun to watch the dragons grow but all those anonymous desert rulers and slave traders dealing with Dany were basically interchangeable.

The storyline I fast forward through is Theon's. Although I must confess, Ramsey is fascinating to watch. That actor did an excellent job. I think he is the best crazy, evil villain ever invented on that show. Interesting. Maybe someone here can shed some light on it, but I hated Joffrey. Everytime Tyrion slapped hi I applauded. I loved watching him die. But Ramsey doesn't elicit hatred from me. It's his style I think. The way he speaks so quietly and instructively to Theon, there's actually wit to the character.

The original five survivors in Martin's book pitch are iconic in the series. It is a Stark heavy mix between the sexes. The series ending is a girl power snoozefest. Anyone who is cunted has an advantage over anyone who is cocked. What a sleep inducing end to such a great series.

SPOILER ALERT Sansa is not one of the survivors in the book pitch. I hope that the series follows. However I doubt they go that way. They will be spineless and let her survive.

What does Sansa serve by letting her live? She's not really all that dynamic and I would think that whomever is left after this battle has to/should be someone who can/will be integral to re-establishing order in rebuilding their world. Sansa is not a true survivor in my eyes because her survival always has relied on someone stronger and more powerful than herself. Personally, I like her well enough, but their future society is not served by allowing her to live. Also, someone said that she spent a lot of time with that nice Jonas boy whilst they were still filming, so maybe they did kill her off.

Did that girl who had an affair with Kit Harrington ever release the nude pic?

If Gendry was legitimised, would he be the Prince that Arya has children with?

I agree that Jaime and Cersei, certainly at this point, have a familial chemistry rather than a sexual one. It’s actually the same as the same one they have with Tyrion. There’s the exasperation and loathing that siblings have but also the blood connection and the abiding loyalty.

If Sansa dies - I think she will - I will be disappointed. It is like a punishment for her for not being a badass little live-action-anime riotgrrl like Arya and kind of masterbatory on the part of GRRM/ the writers. Same with Theon. I’m tired of seeing him punished for being vain and arrogant. It’s getting boring. Stringing him along this far just to see him die randomly is like torture porn.

I think Sansa will live and be with Gendry. She will be Lady of Winterfell. Theon? Dead and Yara will rule the Iron Islands. Most of the women will survive and rule making a mockery of the sacrifice of male characters. Oh and a woman will rule The Iron Throne. Danys' daughter probably.

Look at it this way. Jon Snow, The Hound, Tormund Giantsbane, Beric, Jorah Mormont, Samwell Tarley, Jaime Lannister and Tyrion, Davos, Gendry, and a few random soldier types all have working cocks. So I hope at least half of them survive. Grey Worm, Varys, Theon, all castrated. Bran is crippled. I hope Sansa lives. She is smart, strong and capable. She has learned a lot. If they kill her off after everything she's been through and survived, I will hate GRRM a lot. I don't care about Yara or Theon. Or Euron. All the Greyjoys can sink to the bottom of the sea. I still have hope that one of the surprises will be Daario Naharis coming back disguised as part of the Gold Cloaks army. I also keep hope alive that Ja'qen H'gar will appear to help Arya and the Mountain dispatch Cersei, Qyburn, and The Mountain. I'd love to see The Mountain get hacked to pieces the way he hacked people. But really Dany, Sansa, Missandei, Arya, Gilly, and hopefully, Lyanna Mormont need to have babies, if not soon, then eventually.

Here's the little hottie! Hi, Pretty! He mumbles some random bullshit about the show, but it's really secondary to the photo shoot they're doing. Now I like his looks here. If he keeps his hair and beard just like this he will do well. But if he cuts his hair anymore or goes clean shaven he will look UGH!

R453 pretty sure his PR people paid her off. That story died quick so he can pretend to be world’s best hubby while promoting his play and the new season GOT.

That was nice, thanks r457.

[quote]Sansa is not a true survivor in my eyes because her survival always has relied on someone stronger and more powerful than herself. Personally, I like her well enough, but their future society is not served by allowing her to live.

That's always been part of the "Game of Thrones."

The idea that she could rally someone to fight for her or manipulate someone into helping her is just as important as one's ability to fight. The idea behind her surviving wouldn't just be because she has endured so much, it would be because she has learned from Ned, Little Finger, Jon and Cersei's faults.

The show has been setting that up for quite a while as she has begun to demonstrate everything that she has learned from being around practically everyone or as the show pointed out before she killed Little Finger, "I'm a slow learner, it's true. But I learn."

" I still have hope that one of the surprises will be Daario Naharis coming back disguised as part of the Gold Cloaks army"

Oh, that's a nice idea! It was prophecied that Cersei would be strangled by "The Valonquar" (younger sibling), which Cersei always thought meant Tyrion. I've always thought it meant Arya, who is a younger sibling, but it could also mean Daario, who has a mercenary company called "The Second Sons".

As for Sansa, I think she ends up running the North, and who else could at this point? There must always be a Stark at Winterfell, and Jon isn't a Stark, and Bran is crazy by all normal standards and infertile, he can't carry on the dynasty. So that leaves Sansa and Arya, and Sansa is a clever politician who understands the clan politics of Westeros and a competent administrator, and Arya just wants to kill things. Plus Arya has taken power from a death cult and they're going to want their own back at some point, so if Sansa doesn't live then the North is going to be Stark-less.

Yup, Sansa has got to be the Stark at Winterfell. And she's suited for it. Bran's the three eyed raven now so he cant do it, if Jon survives he'll probably rule Westeros, and I don't see Arya staying in one place too long. Gotta be Sansa.

She'll eventually have a bunch of kids. And if she can, give them the Stark name.

It's been established that if a woman is the only survivor of a major house of Westeros, she can give her kids her maiden name to carry on the family and its rights. So either Sansa or Arya could marry and have kids, and carry on the Stark name, not that either one wants to. Danerys could also call her children "Targaryan", if she had any, and failed to find a close relative to marry.

Cersei could also officially legitimize her bastard incest baby and declare it heir to the Iron Throne, but IMHO if she tried that the great Lords of Westeros would all chip in for a Faceless Man and declare her death was a tragic accident, no investigation required.

I'm thinking Jon and Dany a re going to legalize Gendry and make him a Baratheon. Sure would love to know what happens with Melisandre and Varys. She told Varys he was going to die "in this land" but she never said when or how. So it's remotely possible Varys lives through everything and becomes part of Jon & Dany's small council. At this point I'm pretty sure Tyrion dies. Pretty sure Jaime and Cersei die too. So that ends the Lannisters. I want Jaime to survive.

Some things they have already done I hope they don't repeat: Wildfire. They used it at Blackwater Bay as a weapon. Fine. But then Cersei used it to blow up the Sept and destroy most of the nobility of Westeros. We've heard repeatedly of how the Mad King wanted to set the city on fire and "burn them all!" So I would have no problem with them using wildfire to set the Army of the Dead on fire. But I hope Cersei doesn't use it to blow up her enemies again. IMO that would be the easy way out. I'd feel cheated.

Same with the whole "died in childbirth" thing. Lyanna died in childbirth. Dany lost her baby. Cersei may lose her baby. Tyrion's mother died in childbirth. Damn. How about Dany giving birth to a kid and surviving along with the kid. Now that might be a surprise. I figure they'll kill off Grey Worm, but Missandei needs to live and find love. Maybe Ser Jorah? Too old.Maybe Jaime? But then Brienne would have to be dead...unless she falls for Tormund.

"I figure they'll kill off Grey Worm, but Missandei needs to live and find love"

I'm okay with Missandei falling for the dickless guy. She was a beautiful slave, and that means she spent god knows how many years being fucked by anyone who wanted her, and I can believe that she's had it with sex and is thrilled to experience love without sex.

But I don't give a lot for her chances of surviving the series, her official role was as a translator and an expert on eastern Essos, and Dany doesn't need any of that now that she's in Westeros. Plus if it's going to be all Dany and Jon, Dany and Jon, Dany and Jon and Tyrion, the other members of her court are going to become superfluous to the story.

I hope Grey Worm doesn’t die. Can’t there be one living eunuch?

Poor Dickon Tarley

[quote] But if he cuts his hair anymore or goes clean shaven he will look UGH!

That will never be possible.

I feel very strongly that Tyrion must survive. He's the conscience of the series and also one of the few intelligent beings.

I hope he survives, too. It is expected he will betray Dany at some point so I hope it is because of some fuckup she does, as I don’t want him executed.

CERSEI MUST DIE!!!

Drakaris.

Dickon...

Amazing.

[quote]I figure they'll kill off Grey Worm, but Missandei needs to live and find love. Maybe Ser Jorah? Too old.Maybe Jaime? But then Brienne would have to be dead...unless she falls for Tormund.

This show has limited time I don't see them suddenly developing relationships like it's Love Connection. I don't even envision the show dealing much with existing relationships beyond what has already been presented. For example, Gendry and Arya will reunite but the show isn't going to set it up as if they're destined to be. If Jaime and Brienne even kiss I will be floored. There's so little time to resolve so many things like how to defeat the legion of White Walkers, sorting out the prophecy of Azor Ahai, and most importantly killing Cersei.

Gendry and Arya might not hook up but Jaime and Brienne definitely will. They've already developed their love connection, they just have to consummate it.

I think once Jaime arrives at Winterfell and tells Brienne he dumped Cersei for good he'll tell he he loves her and then the sex.

What if Missandei dies and Greyworm lives. A bait and switch, like in Mrs. Miniver. (calling elder gays who remember this William Wyler classic.)

[quote]I think once Jaime arrives at Winterfell and tells Brienne he dumped Cersei for good he'll tell he he loves her and then the sex.

Maybe that's what Gwendoline Christie meant when she told Vogue that Brienne the woman will be explored this season.

Joffrey was a much better villain than Ramsay, being at once a terrifying all-powerful psycho, and the spoiled kid we've all wanted to slap - he was complex and beautifully played. And while Ramsay was played by a very good actor, the character wasn't deep or interesting, he was just gross, a compendium of everything the writers despise or could imagine despising. The actor really did his best to make him interesting by giving him a courtly exterior that brought an element of surprise into his torture porn, but that's not the same thing as real depth.

However, I give Ramsay credit for dying wonderfully! Joffrey's death was disappointing, he didn't learn from his mistakes, he just fell over dead without knowing who'd killed him. Ramsay, on the other hand, went down fighting, even cornered and helpless he kept trying to exert his will over Sansa and his monstrous dogs and it seemed like he might still succeed, that was one hell of a tense scene!

For Ramsay was a better villain. Joffrey and Viserys were more entertaining because of their pomposity and bravado that covered their inner cowardice, but Ramsay was great because he was dangerous. Joffrey and Viserys were bullies. Ramsay was brutal and smart - a dangerous combination. I see a bit of that in Euron but he's too over-the-top.

Yeah, Euron is just lame.

Tyrion dying would be so sad. If he and Jon die I will be angry and gutted.

Oh, I agree, R480. Vyseris and Joffrey were entertaining, but I didn't find them complex. They were both soiled, entitled, pompous bullies. I loved it every time Tyrion slapped Joffrey around. What I loved about Ramsey was that he was a fully realized character. You knew he was vulnerable, and twisted, and probably had been brutalized himself.

There were moments when you almost felt he was open to reason, and yet others where you knew something would happen. That scene where he tells his father he has taken Moat Cailin with Reek, and his father tells him he is now Ramsey Bolton, "my son" the gratitude shines from his eyes. He kneels on the ground and thanks his father, and there is absolute sincerity in his gesture. He is moved. And you know in that instant, he is going to kill his father.

I particularly loved Ramsey's voice when he was being instructive, explaining things to Reek. I had a greater appreciation of just how well he was written and interpreted by the actor after watching it recently. It was as if Iwan Rheon, the Welsh actor who played Ramsey was playing him as a normal person, and in fact I got the impression that while Roose felt he was young and harsh, he thought he was norma too. Not a complete psycho, but trainable. He was always counseling him.

not "soiled" but "spoiled"

[quote]sorting out the prophecy of Azor Ahai

Which episode is this discussed in?

Ramsay was a godawful cartoon villain with the cringe worthy poppy eyes and broad grin. The thing about Joffrey was his diabolical behavior was motivated by a deep insecurity which made him compelling. Ramsay didn't have any nuance like that, what he started as on the show, so he ended. You could actually take Ramsay's entire storyline out and it wouldn't have a single effect on the overall narrative.

I would've fast forwarded through Ramsay's scenes if I could. The torture of Theon was endless. Sansa was just more of her "caught in a spider's web" helplessness. The only interesting scene was when his father came back with a new wife and announced she was pregnant.

Joffrey was fun to watch because he so clearly wasn't as smart as he was evil.

I quite enjoyed Ramsay's torture of Theon as there seemed to be a homoeroticism to it. Though that probably says more about me than is healthy.

R488 I totally agree. Ramsay was sexy as a fuck.

I read a theory about season 8 and the final episodes that blew my mind. Don't worry, I won't spoil.

It would be a PERFECT ending, and it would set many things right about the poorness of the writing in season 7. When I first heard about it, I said "total bullshit." Then I as I dug more and more, if this theory is true they've been setting it up since season 1. This ending would be much more in line with how the show was during seasons 1 to 4. I actually think it's possible that the show may not end like this, but the books might.

Well, since you're not going to share the theory, the rest of your post is pretty much worthless.

R489 Share the theory. Just put *POSSIBLE SPOILER* at the top.

I'm going to start a spoilers thread.

R61 You are overthinking the Daario/Cersei connection. It is too late in the game to have anyone but Arya,Jamie or Tyrion kill Cersei. Much too late.

In addition, John is a Stark. He is the son of Ned's sister. He is also Targaryean. In essence, he is the heir to the Iron Throne.

God damn it if they go woke at the end. I don't want this SJW identity politics crap infesting the greatest tv series in recent years. It'll ruin everything.

Maybe Cersei poisons herself which is why we see her drinking the wine in the trailer.

Yeah because the trailer will show a clip of Cersi "kiling herself". Bitch, please.

Tormund isnt Brienne’s type. She was in love with Renley and Jaime, who were handsome, sophisticated, worldly and high-born.

But he did kind of try to pay court to her in his way. If she desperately wants any kind of physical affection, it may happen.

Official poster, allegedly.

I don't want to be spoiled r489 but if the denouement is along the lines of seasons 1-4, that's encouraging. It will probably piss off a lot of viewers because a lot of fan favorites will be killed off mercilessly.

R499, I only really started watching in season 6.

What is the fan conclusion on how 1-4 differ from 5-7?

You didn't watch the earlier seasons? How did you understand what was going on?

To me, the earlier seasons, based on the books (which I didn't read) were grittier. Killing off Ned Stark, the tentpole character played by the actor with the biggest name; Jaime pushing Bran out the window; the freaking Red Wedding bloodbath, killing off most of the Starks; the shocking death of Oberyn Martell just as he was winning. So it was a regular winnowing out of popular characters, hero characters that you'd normally expect to survive.

Then it started to drag in parts. I really never cared about Dany and her dragons and her endless proclamation of her titles and her tour of the eastern provinces. Never cared about the Stannis storyline (except I hope Melisande dies an awful death for her part in it), the Sand Sisters could've been great, they were certainly funny when paired with Bronn, but they were all (mostly?) killed off and had no effect on the story. Stuff like that.

I meant I only sorted watching LIVE in season 6. I watched parts of Season 1 when it came out but due to all the cheesy and gratuitous exposition scenes in whorehouses I didn’t take it seriously; it seemed like those dopey softcore gladiator shows and I lost interest. Before I decided to watch Season 6 I binged the whole thing over 2 weeks but didn’t pay attention to where one season began and another ended so I don’t know how fans consider the series as blocs and how the quality and tone altered.

The last season, season 7, was easily thr worst season the me. I found the writing lacked its intelligence.

Seasons 3 and Seasons 4 are the two best seasons. They are also based off the best book, so that is no surprise.

Agree about last season.

I also binge-watched seasons so it also runs together in my mind. I t was very obvious when they started to dial back the whore house meetings with naked bodies in the background. I figure the original demographic was horny teenage boys.

True, sex was used much more intelligently thereafter, even if the cringeworthy, corny element is remains a signature of the show. “You want a good girl but you need the bad pussy!”, anyone?

Haha, the truly dire Camelot came out around the same time as GOT debuted. Arthur was a jug-eared beanpole twink, Guinevere looked like a porn star from 1998 and the overall effect was embarrassing.

So even though there’s this very good cast being very good in Game Of Thrones, there’s a dozen minor actors who are mediocre and as many inexperienced child actors to give me pause. Then I see the Whore Of Winterfell sucking Tyrion’s cock as he talks about the Lannisters, flashing her pussy at Theon as he talks about the North and simulating lesbian orgasm for Baelish as he talks about politics and I’m reminded of poor Eva Green reduced to getting her tits out in softcore Arthurian Starz shit I saw a few weeks ago and I don’t take in all the cool subplots in the background which pay off later and give up.

Just read the New Yorker piece Emilia Clarke wrote on her two brain aneurysms. Had no idea she went through that.

R351 No to a lot of that. Many of the men will die. Sam will most probably be The Grand Maester. JL will probably die in the arms of Brienne. There is a rumor that they will have sex this season. Good for Brienne she finally got some cock.

r507 that explains why she has zero acting range.

Get that hot dick, Brienne!

But it is a great excuse r509.

R499 the ending I think is going to happen is pure seasons 1-4. It is wonderful, and complex, and hints of it have been dropped throughout the entire series starting with episode 1. For sure I think this is likely the ending GRRM had in mind, but who knows what Benioff and Weiss will do.

Normies will hate it.

You will say "holy shit... how?" and then realize it all fits perfectly.

R512 Why not just expand on your theory? Just put in a spoiler heads up for the moaners.

Starting again from the beginning.

Well I hope that the resolution doesn't involve Gendry except in a minor role. The whole "he's the last Baratheon!" doesn't seem important, not with two Targaryans extent. He's only been in a handful of episodes and hasn't really been fleshed out as a character. If he suddenly pops up having hero moments, I'm going to be disappointed.

I agree about Gendry. While I liked his character in earlier seasons, he just seems superfluous now and in no way important to the endgame. It is ridiculous for anyone to think he's going to end up on the throne and the fans who constantly "ship" him with Arya are exhausting. Those two characters no longer have anything in common. He might forge some Valyrian steel for our heroes, but that's about the extent I can see for his usefulness.

Maybe Jon will be legitimised and his baby with Dany will be the Last Stark at Winterfell. That way he, Sansa and Arya can die.

I agree Season 5 was a drag with all the characters scattered to the winds. The Hound is gone, Sansa, Tyrion, Tywin, Varys and Littlefinger are no longer collectively gnashing teeth in King’s Landing, the multiple depressing religious fanatic subplots, torture porn at Dreadfort, Daenerys spending another season managing slavers.

Nah, there's no way Dany would let her baby be anything other than a Targaryan. And it would be 75% Targ, so I guess majority genes rule.

"Maybe Jon will be legitimised and his baby with Dany will be the Last Stark at Winterfell. That way he, Sansa and Arya can die. "

Sam is on his way to Winterfell, with the news that Jon is a Targaryan, and a legitimate one, which would make up one up on the Starks.

And he'd better not try to get himself declared a legitimate Stark, because while Sansa may be willing to put aside the question of her birthright until the War Between the Living and the Dead is over, she's not going to put it off forever. In fact, if Cersei wanted to mess with the Starks, she could hardly do better than officially declaring that Jon was Ned's legitimate son. Sansa would kill him that night.

If we’re taking seriously curses from Meg the Tree Frog it would be fitting for Cersei if the young, beautiful queen who usurps her will be her daughter with Jaime and they both die in during childbirth.

All that effort wasted because she decided not to take her Moon tea.

I just hope Bronn and the Hound live. I find them amusing. I'd love for GoT to end this way: it was all the imagination of an autistic cosplayer. Now that would piss people off. And I'd laugh.

The one person I'm pretty sure won't be killed is Sam because he represents us the viewers, obsessively pouring over old texts (=blogs, rewatching previous seasons) to decipher mysteries and connections.

Of course he could be killed off in the last episode.

As a complete aside, the actor playing Sam suuccccks. The end of every single line and gesture is punctuated by self-deprecation. Every. Single. One. There is variety among people with low-self-esteem.

It doesn’t matter if they’re being attacked by Wildlings and giants. Sam makes a mild joke. He’s bullied by fellow Nights Watchmen. Sam blushes pink. He stands up to his father. Sam smiles sweetly. He woos Gillie. Sam shrugs helplessly. He jokes with Jon Snow. Sam looks confused. He appeals to the Maesters for his dream job. Sam looks dreamily at the shelves.

His inspiration Samwise in LOTR had Sean Astin, who himself is hardly Brando, but there were shades of light and dark and emotions as a normal person/Hobbit would have. Sam is more a concept than anything else. Plus he’s too harmless to hate (except by me).

That's how the character is written, R523. FYI he's even more annoying in the book, where he reacts to absolutely everything by squealing like a pig and announcing he's a total coward.

[ [R489]] Are you thinking about the small folk? No need to spoil anything, just wondering if you heard the same rumor I did.

r489, how about giving us a link and let us decide if we want to spoil ourselves. Between your post and r525, I'm so intrigued. I heard something about the "small folk" as well that had me like whaaat but then again, it's Game of Thrones.

Yeah we read the same thing - can't find the link right now and I do not believe it considered reliable.

Emilia Clarke's piece in the New Yorker. Reading now.

What big life lessons have you learned from GoT, if any?

One big one for me: really carefully consider what you say and to whom. It's fine to keep your mouth shut most of the time.

You can download via Mega the video containing the spoilers of ep1, HBO deleted this video on you tube.

sorry, the video is in spanish.

R512 There are almost no real hints as to the so-called bittersweet ending in the series in episode 1 or season 1 through four. It is not very complex in its execution either.

Arya kills Melisandre.

New trailer looks really, extra, extra grim.

Best season opener in GoT history, one of the funniest eps, one of the Top 5 episodes of this show...

I was honestly expecting for this season to bomb, so this is surprising. I'll adjust my expectations accordingly.

There was no prophecy made by Dany's witch lady. Dany asked her when Drogo would return to normal and the witch told her, "Never bitch." When pigs fly, when monkeys fly out my butt, when the seas dry up and the mountains turn to dust etc. Oh and by the way, you're barren now.

That myth of that "prophecy" is one of the longest-running misconceptions in all of GOT.

Ugh, GQ article promising A. Lot. Unfortunately, for me, 40% of GoT’s humor falls flat.

"There was no prophecy made by Dany's witch lady. "

This is Fantasy genre fiction, R535, not real life. In Fantasy, both curses and prophecies are real, and I've already gone over the ways in which the "prophecy" is coming true or could come true.

Dany believes it's true, BTW, she believes she's infertile, and has no other reason for believing so other than Dario didn't get her preggers during their affair.

r535 are you a total idiot? The press always overhype this piece of shit show which has had nothing approaching quality since Season 4.

Sorry, that was supposed to be directed at r534

r536 GoT always specialised in crude, misoynistic humor to please its core fanbase of fantasy nerds.

Yes, that’s why I am afraid the first episode might disappoint me in that regard but hope springs eternal.

Actually, there have been hints from some cast and directors that the season has one of the funniest moments ever filmed for Thrones. They were obviously referring to the opening episode..

I have always thought that Littlefinger was actually Robin Arryn's biological father.

what do you think?

Are the books worth listening to? Was going to use them to fall asleep every night, starting where I dozed off the night before. TIA.

I really hope that Tyrion doesn't do anything stupid, I like him, and if he ends up as king of Westeros with Sansa at his side, well, Westeros has done a lot worse.

But he's going to have a hard time coping with the events to come, he wanted to help Dany conquer Westeros and be hand of the king, and here the whole enterprise has ground to a halt and they're haring off to fight zombies in the snow instead of his enemies. So here he is being reduced to a secondary role and watching the woman he worships marry someone else, which has got to aggravate all his self-hatred issues. Yeah, I really, REALLY hope he doesn't do something stupid.

Love that r545.

R245 According to the leakers , he will betray Dany and died later.

Sorry, my post is for 545 not 245

R544 I don’t like the audiobook narrator. He works so much on his accent hos actually performance lacks.

Here’s hoping Jaqen H’ghar appears, strips nude and tucks someone to death.

Totally be down for a JH origin series.

Make that Jaqen H’ghar fucks someone to death and I’m there with bells on.

The Melisandre character makes me feel really sad... I think I identify with her on some level. She's hated by everyone and despite being an ancient immortal, will always be a loner.

The premier episode ends with Jamie arriving at Winterfell and he and Bran lock eyes.

That’ll be fun r554. They’ll have a lot of catching up to do.

R248 Yes think of the prophecy. Snow and Melisandre will be the actors in that play. Melisandre also seems to save the day for snow on top of her sacrifice.

How does a prophecy play into Hodor being resurrected? I've pored over all the prophecies in the books and on the show, and I don't recall anything about idiots returning from the dead.

Although of course, it's already happened once.

I won't spoil the joke in first episode of S8 - but its really cute. Nothing really happens in the episode, it's mostly fan service - Jon rides a dragon!!!!! - and setting events in motion for the rest of seasons, reunions, people finding out info cause every one meets up in Winterfell. The two important plot developments are --

* [bold]Theon finally mans up, saves Yara and takes the Iron fleet to Winterfell[/bold]. This sets up our heroes retreat from Winterfell to the sea and then back to Dragonstone. Team Living has to regroup & figure out how to defeat the Night King. * [bold]Sam tells Jon about his true parentage.[/bold] Episode ends right there.

Samwell apparently has a tantrum after he finds out that Daenerys had his family executed and he implores Jon to overthrow her, after telling him that he is the rightful ruler of Westeros.

R558 how can Theon steal the whole fleet? If he frees Yara and tells her he is going to Winterfell to help Jon, does she go with him, or does she sail back to the Iron Islands? I like the idea of them stealing Euron's fleet and sailing North to help Jon. Makes sense. Hope D&D though of that.

I have no leaks to share, but IMO it is fan service and a very predictable plot device to have familiar faces come back with blue Zombie eyes. Yes, I expect Hodor and even possibly Edd and Tormund to become Zombies. Maybe even Podrick. I hope it doesn't happen to Grey Worm.

Didn’t they burn Tormund to prevent zombification?

I don't think Theon steals the whole fleet. I assume he adds the one Yara is on to the others he has. Euron is banging Cersei so maybe he's occupied. Theon heads to Winterfell - IDK if he arrives for the battle - but given that Team Living retreats to Dragonstone, they will need to go by sea. So I think that is why his ships become important. Don't know if Yara goes to Winterfell.

r561 Tormund is alive in this episode - reunion with the Night Watch.

r560 Yes. Everyone is old characters are expected to come back. Don't know which ones.

I thought Sam hated his father? Suddenly he’s super upset about him dying?

He's upset about his brother, Dickon

R561 you might be thinking of Thoros of Myr. He also had wild, red hair. Got killed by a zombie bear beyond the wall when the group was trying to catch a wight.

R563 You can hate your father AND be horrified by his death by dragon breath.

R537 There was no prophecy. Just a snarky bitch. In 7 weeks you'll see.

One week. I'm ready for this to be over!

Is the Azor Ahai reincarnation theory from the books only?

R569, on TV, Melisandre keeps talking about "the Prince who was promised" and that's the only reference I'm aware of. She was convinced Stannis was the guy. Now she seems to believe Jon Snow is. Here's my question: If Melisandre sees these visions in the fire, why can't she tell them what they need to do to get rid of the White Walkers?

r570 Absolutely! I don't think Melisandre knows how to defeat the White Walkers. She is currently in Volantis, presumably to research this topic. The Great Temple of R'hllor is located in Volantis, complete with fighting company, compounds, etc . Volantis is to the followers of R'hllor what the Vatican is to Catholics.

I see it a like a priest researching a particular stubborn demon at the Vatican library. Melisandre is coming back with "something."

The thing is, we know about the Volantis connection through the books, it was mentioned in passing on TV, but nothing about an army or priests or WTF ever. I get frustrated sometimes with the fact that the HBO interpretation of the story leaves out stuff that might be helpful to understanding stuff. Like, we have the scene with Melisandre & Varys and she says she's going to Volantis. But no explanation.

More spoilers, please.

They've made it so obvious you'd have to be obtuse not to see. Cersei is pregnant. We all know this. She's been pregnant since Season 7. Dany, OTOH has been telling everyone she meets that the dragons are her "children" because she cannot have children.

We also know that Tyrion is obsessed with the succession. He has argued with Dany about it. We know he met with his sister and we were only "in the room" for part of their meeting...long enough to know that Tyrion knows Cersei is pregnant.

I don't know any spoilers but I have deductive reasoning. Another thing. The ballista. The scorpion. I'm referring to that big giant crossbow that shot arrows at Dany's dragon? The one Bronn was using during the Battle of the Loot Train? Bronn is also the man who shot the arrow that lit up the wildfire at Battle of Blackwater.

We saw the Night King do a javelin style toss that brought down Vyserion. So what is the possibility that maybe they will make a giant crossbow to shoot down the Night King and Zombie Dragon using a giant dragon glass spear? Which, if Bronn decides to be one of the good guys, he could do? And will they do something obvious like pour pitch and lay out wildfire so they can set the zombie army of the dead on fire and destroy them?

I'm kind of with Cersei on this. If Dany and her dragons, and all these Dothraki and Unsullied and the armies of the North can't stop them then WTF.

Yes, more spoilers please.

Fire kills the zombies. But fire can't kill White Walkers or the Night King. For that they need dragon glass and they need valerian steel. Either one kills White Walkers, and I'm assuming, kills the Night King. I remember the fighting sequence at Hardhome when that one big White Walker was after Jon Snow and he walked right through fire to go after him.

Someone pointed out that Oathbreaker was made from Nedd Stark's sword. So was Widow's Wail...and soon the owners of both will be reunited to save Winterfell. Rumors going around based on what Gwendoline Christie has said in interviews, that Jaime & Brienne hook up in Episode 2. Now I don't think there will be a full out sex scene or nudity, but I do think they will kiss passionately.....

What’s the difference between a White Walker and a zombie?

The White Walkers are the fierce looking guys with long hair that seem to be in charge of the zombies. Sam & Gilly were tracked down by a White Walker when he came to take that baby. I think, but I'm not sure, that the White Walkers are all Craster's "sons" who got turned into blue-eyed devils by the Night King, personally. They they go out and help turn dead people into zombies. So maybe the basic difference is that a White Walker is alive and a zombie is dead?

[quote] So maybe the basic difference is that a White Walker is alive and a zombie is dead?

Essentially, yes. The WW are a different race; malevolent ice creatures who are highly intelligent, have their own culture and magical abilities. The undead are zombies in different states of decay.

Moreover, Jon already stated that killing that Night King is not that easy. [bold]Rumors[/bold] abound that when Jon engages the NK, his Valerian steel sword shatters. This plus seeing the overwhelming number of dead zombies triggers a retreat and Winterfell is overrun.

Who ever starts the next thread remember - IT’S SEASON 8

Melisandre sacrifices her life in order to save Jon and Dany's baby, and after dying, Melisandre transforms into one of those black smoke monsters and pierces the Night King's armour, burning him from the inside. Melisandre is actually the character who has the most epic moments in the last season.

R581 where the hell are you getting this stuff from. I never read or heard any such thing.

r582 I have inside information. Arya kisses Cersei with poison disguised as Jaime but then tells her where the antidote us after Cersei admits that Gendry is her real son with Robert and that she made sure Gendry would survive the purges to kill Robert's bastards. However, the real Jaime strangles Cersei to death for real in the end.

LOL! R583 The only way Arya could disguise herself as Jaime is if she killed Jaime and took his face. If "Jaime strangles Cersei to death for real in the end" then he can't die at Arya's hand. R 583 is latching on to every bogus theory out here. THe fact is there have been no leaks and the fact that we at least get to hear about Episode 1 because people from the Premiere are leaking is something. There have been people from time to time in the past two years who have claimed to have "seen a script" or who were on set when something happened. 99% of that has been proven false. Don't know what your smokin R583, but good luck.

here is what we learned from leaks of the first episode and from the trailers: Jaime is going to Winterfell. When he gets there he will make peace with the Starks. It won't be easy but he will. He will help fight the Army of the Dead. He may die doing it. But he will be with Brienne.

Cersei, has Qyburn pay Bronn to assassinate Tyrion and Jaime. We have no idea if Bronn will try to do that. Oh, and Gendry is not Cersei's son. Period. He is too old to be Cersei's son. He is older than Joffrey and he is older than the stillborn baby she had that was Robert's. And there is no way Arya will ever "kiss" Cersei and then take it back. LOL!

Several cast members have said that their "scripts" were sent to them digitally on their computers. The entire script was available for three days after the full cast table read thru. Then it was deleted, and they were just given shooting scripts for the scenes they were shooting on the schedule and once a scene was wrapped and over it was deleted. They took extraordinary precautions and even people who leaked the first episode by posting it on You Tube were blocked by HBO. They were really pissed off about what happened in Season 7 when everything leaked.

Melisandre will destroy TNK.

r584, Arya disguises herself as Qyburn, not Cersei. But she does confront Cersei in the catacombs and spares her life when she sees her humanity.

I'll be ripping mad if Arya doesn't kill cersei if she gets the chance. Run that bitch through!

But, It'd be so out of character for Arya not to kill her that I can't believe this.

True, be weird for her to show mercy to Cersei.

Exactly R589. That's the most laughable part of the "leak." which I think is basicbullshit. These theories are a dime a dozen, pure speculation not based true source. From the "Arya kisses Cersei with poison..." I knew it was fake. Arya likes to blood her enemies. By the time we reach a point where Arya has a chance to kill Cersei, Cersei will be an empty husk, all her forces spent. A loser. Cersei is going to be executed by Jon in the Dragon Pit. I only pray that the prediction of wildfire blowing up the dragon pit isfalse. I'd be so pissed if Cersei got away with that. So pissed if D&D get that damned lazy.

I hope the show can redeem itself for the final szeason.

I just want to see Jaqen H’ghar.

r538 You're so incredibly rude. I'll be glad when this show is finally over so I won't have to engage with uncouth GoT fans like you anymore.

That was so gross r591.

....gross r594? What do you even mean?

Lots of people die. Davos ends up on the iron throne.

I think the Battle of Winterfell kills Tormund, Edd, Podrick, Beric, Grey Worm, Bronn, maybe Royce.

I see Jaime, Jorah, Gendry, Brienne, Davos, Varys, Tyrion, and all the Starks surviving, but it is going to be tense as shit.

I think there's supposed to be a second battle with the Gold Company. I think in Episode 5. Maybe that's when Jaime dies. Not sure.

I think Euron will die in Episode 2.

maybe the dragons will kill her, the worst actress on earth.....

No lie, why they pick her to be on the show, her wig upstages her....

The cast must be in a panic now the show is over. Where do they go from here? None of them have real chops, especially the younger ones.