Why so many kids?

Some people grew up in larger families and they like having lots of kids. Some people don’t use birth control, is the other, obvious answer.

If I were wealthy, 2-4 would be plenty. I love kids and have no problem being around them all day. But I’ve personally chosen to not have children. Had I remained married to my former spouse, I would have done so, but I’m not equipped for being a single mom.

Yeah I don't get the obsession to be a parent at all. Seeing how many gay couples spend tons of money to rent out a women's uterus because they are desperate to pass on their genes. Guess we still can't get over our primal instincts that say we must reproduce.

I have no interest in child rearing, and yes, sometimes I do judge. What I find incredibly baffling are the suburban fraus who are comfortably middle class with one or two children and then have a couple more and drag the whole family into lower middle class. Is it some sort of compulsion? I am nominal acquaintances with a woman like this (friend of a family friend sort of thing ). She doesn't work and has 4 children under the age of 9. When I ran into her a few months ago she was bitching about how stressed and cash strapped they were. I'm not sure why she didn't see this coming.

I would like to have kids someday since I've always liked kids and I'm good with them. But I want to wait until I'm financially secure enough. Everything is getting so expensive these days and I don't want to end up near broke because of a kid.

I have four. We had them via egg donation and surrogacy, two sets of twins. They're 5 and 8, but were all made at the same time and then frozen. We had to convert our attic to bedrooms.

R5, how do you afford them? Are you well off?

You froze your kids?!

Hello, CPS?

[quote]income challenged families with like 5 or 6 kids ranging in age from toddler to late teen.

“Income challenged” (my how P.C. we are!) receive more government money for each child they pump out.

R6 Reasonably well off but not rich - we didn't have the first two until we were 41 and 34, so we'd had a few years to save up, and we also have our own business which enables us to work from home whenever we want, so no need of a nanny. Plus our mothers are both retirees, so they look after the kids when we can't.

Don't like kids and have never had even the slightest urge to have any. In fact, it puzzles me why people even want children.

in social science, this is discussed in terms of poverty stricken women. what i remember of it is that there is so little positice in the environment, and little hope for improvement. job prospects are slim to crap anyway. about the only thing some if these women can do to have something positive and productive in their lives is have a child, to spend their efforts on. they kind of graduate into a new status by taking care of their kids.

some of them (especially the trash in my family) did it due to lack of birth control, and trying to get the man to stick around long term (although not necessarily as a paycheck).

[quote]Thoughts?

You’re kindof a moron.

I know how to use the space bar, kind of.

It’s egocentric. R11 has it right. In a world without happiness or power, children are the only option some see for happiness and importance. Unfortunately not logical - but the harsh reality for higher birth rates among the poor and miserable - ensuring another generation of poor and miserable.

For some big families, religion plays a big part. I have an ultra conservative Catholic cousin who has eight kids . A couple of years ago, I worked with a woman who had left the LDS church. She and her husband only had three kids, but some of their siblings who were older already five or more kids.

Many if not most children are accidental. Birth control does NOT always work, is expensive, hard on the female body, etc. Pressure from asshole husbands/boyfriends for unprotected sex when they are exhausted or sick. Brainwashing to believe abortion is "murder", etc. People/women often are not making choices about this. Also some abusive men like to keep their women pregnant as a form of control.

In addition to religion, free labour in some farming families used to be an incentive to have a lot of kids. More mouths to feed, yes, but more hands to work the fields.

R5 how do you tell them apart?

OP, were you an accident? You type like you weren’t wanted.

People don't have a lot of kids anymore - not like they used to. 4 or more kids is now extremely rare . 3 even seems to be a lot.

Stone Age women could only have 2-4 children then it was over. And now women can have up to 20 kids. I don't know what mother nature was thinking, this idiocy should have ended at least 200 years ago. With all the overpopulation, why is a woman still able to have so many kids?!? I think more than 90% of women would agree. No more periods! And imagine you were one of those unfortunate women with no access contraceptives (actually about 230.000.000) and your only purpose in life is being a breeding machine to your patriarchal society. Nature, I want answers!

In this day and age, I think there are a lot of people (especially in the shrinking middle class) who see their children as an extension of themselves. They see the kid as a way to redeem their own utterly average or below average existence if they can just mold little junior into something really special. They build their entire schedule around shuttling junior from activity to activity in the hope that he will display some amazing talent that will launch him into the social/economic stratosphere. More often than not, though, the kid turns out to be as average as mom and dad.

I have a coworker who, when talking about her daughter, always makes a point of calling her “a rising senior” at so-and-so high school. I thought it was just her own annoying affectation, but then I noticed the term being used a lot in social media posts by parents trying to get their kids summer work. When did parents start acting like their kids’ PR shills? Then there’s a guy I work with (a former college baseball player) who talked about getting his kid an expensive, custom-made baseball glove for the kid’s first year in little league. It’s a tee ball league for six year olds—furthermore, the kid isn’t going to be able to fit that glove over his hand in a year or two.

I love kids and almost had one with a bissexual friend (female) of mine when I was 28. Thank God I didn't cause we don't talk with each other anymore. I love being an uncle and will have no children with my current partner. We're good.

I've never understood conservatives who love stay at home moms but oppose the legalisation of prostitution. They are the same thing, the hooker just works a little bit harder.

Abortion needs to be viewed like in China. The pseudo-religious /ethical guilt that is forced on women for doing a GOOD thing is evil. It takes courage to have an abortion -we should be doing everything we can to make it easier. Part of the problem is so many women are convinced that having children is their life’s goal and look on it as the greatest thing in their lives - (because it makes them feel like their lives mattered) . The number of women who are any-choice is criminal. They have been brainwashed.

^anti-choice (aka, pro-birth not to be confused with pro-life which would mean caring about the kid after it is born)

R25 There's this bizarre mentality that a woman who chooses to give birth, no matter how mentally or financially unfit, is "taking responsibility " for her actions. When 9 times out of 10 ,taking responsibility would actually mean getting an abortion.

I don't want children - I can only imagine that I'd mess them up in one way or another. But then I wonder, what the heck do I do now that I'm in my mid-30's for the next twenty years?

R28 work on goals that you've always wanted to achieve. Want to make a movie? Do it. Want to write a novel? Do it.

and who is trying to reverse Roe V Wade? god damn republicans. You want kids?? Plenty need to be adopted.

[quote] No judgment

Um your whole post is very much judgment

R22 The "rising senior" expression just means that the student has completed their junior year and will be a senior in the fall. It has nothing to do with their personal merit.

I have two friends (hetero married couple), both highly educated, college professors. They had two planned, one surprise (but wanted), another just born--the result of birth control not working as planned (but they are delighted to have him and can afford to). They are absolutely pro-choice, but have said termination, other than for medical reasons would not be their choice (there was one miscarriage between babies three and four). They are completely in support of women's right to choose termination and fight politically for that right. They seem to me a model of being pro-choice--including choosing to have more children than originally planned (the husband has an appointment for a vasectomy). I admire how they balance their own choices with respecting other choices made by other people for whatever reasons.

Nearly a quarter of all women will have an abortion during their lifetime. The poor have a much higher rate than of anyone else. However, access to facilities and services has shown a decline across the board.

The women who know they don't have the resources do in fact have abortions - but Republicans are making it harder for them.

I was listening to a call in show on LBC London the other day and the guy who called in was a night watchman complaining about how he had to work two jobs and wasn’t it a shame that you can’t support a family anymore what with immigrants working for peanuts. Then he casually mentioned that he had SEVEN children. Really?

Scary R34 . Amazing how hypocritical republicans are. Just like the Republican men would tell their mistress to get an abortion, the Republican women would have one and still vote anti-choice. (A lot must be hypocritical given how many women are anti-choice in polls)

I don’t get how women in states like Texas are allowing abortion rights to be taken away. Just like gays have to fight for gay rights, every woman should be fighting for abortion rights. But there are a lot of Roy Cohn type women I guess.

I'll never have another one.

It has always been a statistic truism that the poorer you are the more children you'll have.

It goes along with all the flawed decision making that makes people poor to begin with.

[quote]Birth control does NOT always work, is expensive, hard on the female body...

Of course NONE OF THAT IS TRUE!

[quote]Um your whole post is very much judgment.

No, it's actually an incredibly obvious observation made by everyone not blinded by their politically accepted (for the moment) pre-approved "opinions". If you never allow yourself to see anything that does't fit your narrow field of "acceptable", try to admit you aren't actually seeing much, ok?

[quote]The poor have a much higher rate than of anyone else. However, access to facilities and services has shown a decline across the board. The women who know they don't have the resources do in fact have abortions - but Republicans are making it harder for them.

Yes, and making it EVEN HARDER STILL is the fact that MILLIONS of these same women INSIST ON VOTING REPUBLICAN!

If women wanted equality TOMORROW they could have it, but the dirty secret is that WOMEN are why women don't enjoy equality and autonomy over their own reproductive health. There are simply more female voters than male voters and there always will be. Numbers DO NOT LIE!

Yeah - in terms of abortion rights, the most important task women have is to convince OTHER women to keep abortion legal and easily accessible. It’s like if 40% of gay men voted AGAINST gay rights. We call them out and make them pariahs for using the rights WE fought for. Maybe it’s time for an equivalent to “outing” for abortion. If I was a woman, I would consider it. These Republican women are getting a free ride from all of the work and fighting feminists do and have done. Need to make them accountable.

I had one child late in life and I really thoroughly enjoy parenthood. However - I cannot imagine more than ONE child - its expensive and takes effort. I'm a Montessori minded parent and even with my son about to enter High School still take a parenting approach influenced by Montessori - I've enjoyed the entire process - but I look at people with more then one or 2, especially if I am out and the kids are whining and fighting like these people are from Mars. Especially so, because if you are thoughtful you notice how ONE kid changes your entire way of life - more kids . . . uh, no. I don't like parents that are "advertising" their care all touch and proud like everyone needs to notice them either. Lets face it, the parents are a lot of times more annoying than the kids. I also don't think its ok to let your kid disrupt everyone else within range either. Get your act under control its not the traveling kid show -

r39 every birth control method except absolute abstinence has a failure rate.

i, myself and one of my friends experienced pregnancy this way.

both were terminated.

My family is huge. Everyone has at least two kids. I’ve only got one aunt or uncle that has one child. My white trashiest aunt has seven kids, and one of them became a grandmother at age 40. But that aunt is very close to all her children and she really enjoys them. She’s an easygoing woman who loves to laugh and hang out with her various kids and grandkids. It’s hard to look down on them, even though they’re all trashy, because they all seem to really like each other and have each other’s backs.

I always feel sorry for only children. Their parents worry WAY too much.

My husband was married (to a woman) before me, and has a daughter. Fortunately, she only visits at Christmas and the summer. It is a lot of work and money. I'm glad I'm only the step.

We are a world full of unplanned pregnancies. How different this world would be if each child was a wanted child.

I spent a week in Appalachian VA for work last year, and it coincided with the local County Fair. There was not much else to do, so I went. I was watching the rodeo, and a woman near me mentioned that she was 21 and pregnant with #4. She also remarked that she was looking forward to the birth and the larger monthly payment from the government.

This rural county was 95%+ white, evangelical, and went resoundingly for Trump. There is not much of a future for women outside of parenthood; the largest employer in the county is the state prison now that the coal industry is dying.

Decent people never have more than two children. Perhaps three, but absolutely no more. It’s terribly obscene.

China got something right in forbidding lots of children. If Rethuglicans are going to get involved in managing peoples lives and bodies, they should do it to force abortion and reduce the cost to government of the abundant offspring of poor women. Unless you prove the ability to support the child financially, you are forced to abort. JK - but it does point out the endless hypocrisy of the Rethuglicans. At least Rand Paul is putting up a symbolic “I don’t know” about Kavanaugh so he can retain some hint of the libertarianism he professes - though of course he will cave with the rest of those spineless Rethuglicans.

More kids = more school shootings, so I approve.

My trashy ass sister just turned 25 and now has 2 different kids by 2 men. She apparently announced after birthing out the 2nd one in January that basically she would not work and just collect checks.

So proud to be related to her!

Well, more kids means I might be able to squeeze a few extra dollars from my mother.

[quote]So proud to be related to her!

R52, FWIW, you can’t judge someone by their family, or their ‘kin’ as we like to call it. You have no choice in that matter. Friends you choose, on the other hand...judge away!

Children can be a kind of security in your old age. I'm 63 and deeply regret not having children. When I get sick there is not going to be anyone to hold my hand and kiss my forehead. Scares me.

But R55, you could have a child like me, without a nurturing bone in my body.

From what I can tell from friends, any parenting ends after the third kid.

The DL will collectively be there for you, R55.

Plus, I’ll come by and hold your hand. Kisses are questionable right now, depending on whether you want tongue or no tongue.

Then I can have your stuff, right?

Having kids before you are financially stable is the quickly way to fall into poverty.

THIS was why no co-pay for birth control was added to Obamacare.

Cons wants to ban abortions but also don't want to give you easy access to birth control or sex education. THAT"s fucked up.

A friend who is a social worker in an old age home says the vast majority of the residents are people without kids

My parents practiced natural birth control.

And here I am.

Simply plopping a kid on this earth is no guarantee that theyre going to "be there" for you, holding your hand and living their lives around you when youre old. If you had them when youre young (20s) then by the time youre in your 80s, they be in thier 60s, too tired to be your caretaker. They practically need a caretaker themselves, and will probably still be working to support their college age kids. They will not have the $$ or time to spend on you. If you had kids when youre older (40 or so) your kid will be themselves in their 40s when youre elderly, and will probably have young children of their own. Again, due to work and time crunch, they will not be there to make your breakfast, cook your dinner, clean your clothes, give you baths, and read you bedtime stories--theyre too busy doing that for their own kids. They most likely wont live near you, unless you live in a major metro center where jobs are plentiful. And of course, we are assuming that you have a good relationship with your kids to begin with, so that theyll sacrifice to be your caretaker, in addition to all their other duties.

I can say as a middle aged person whos parents are dead, many of my fellow middle agers with 70-80 yo parents, there is little love there. I am surprised at the amount of abuse and neglect many of my peers suffered as kids, and subsequently have no real relationship with their elderly demanding parents. They may arrange care for a parent, but they arent selling their house, moving to be closer to them, and otherwise rearranging their lives so they can be physically close to them.

Wow! Debbie Downer at R62.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s all true, just kinda creeps up and slaps ya is all.

I have not read all of the comments in this thread, so forgive if this repeats previous posts.

Straight woman. NOT a frau, thank you very much. However, I do have friends who have 9 kids.

These friends are well educated, good, kind, mentally healthy peopleThe Dad runs his own IT consulting company. These friends both grew up in the intermountain west, and live there still, in the same community they grew up in, with large extended families on both sides. The kids are home-schooled. The mom is the most content person I know; the parents have the best marriage I have ever seen too.

Some people have the ability to think of human relationships as the most important, most enduring thing in life. That is so true for them, that they do NOT put great effort into career development, or into post-graduate education, which they do not see as tied to contentment or meaning in their lives. That derives solely from their children and family relationships. They seem to find intellectual engagement from sharing the world with their children.

I have to say their kids are wonderful kids Never bratty , always kind to each other, seem to genuinely love each other. No jealousy. None. And here is the mark, I think, of good parenting: it is a sheer joy to be an adult around all of these kids.

I am a straight female university professor, and never married and never had kids. So my life outlook could not be more opposite than theirs (well, I guess it would be if I were a gay man. Apologies, DL). But I totally respect them,, and their family and think their contribution to the world and the future far exceeds my own and I am grateful they have had so many children. They are doing it right.

So - you should have kids for old age security? That is exactly why you shouldn’t have kids - it’s a purely egotistical motivation. Having kids should be pure altruism for THEM to live THEIR lives. Not for a life to be brought into this world to care for you. As someone who was born to parents like that, I can tell you I hate them for it and their legacy on earth is to be remembered only in hatred and spite. They had a life to ruin it. For those who are brave enough to not have had children to care for you in old age, kudos.

Most of these posts are bull shit. Aid to families of dependent children was ended in the mid-90's. It was replaced by TANF which is TEMPORARY aid to needy families. It has a lifetime limit of 5 years and has a work requirement. But thanks for sharing the stereotypes of the poor as grifters, cheats, and welfare moms, , and helping Republican talking points........

The US is at an all time low of birthrates - FAR below replacement level among both whites and blacks, and barely at replacement level among hispanics, who average 2 children per woman.

R62: Just wanted to say, my dad was a violent abusive alcoholic. My mom went through hell raising me and my two brothers. My mom died 7 years ago, but she lived with me for the last 2 years of her life. I made her dinner every evening, and brought her flowers every day. The happiest time in her life was the last 7 years of her life, when she got to have widow-hood be a time of peace and love and gentleness. The first 5 years of those 7, I traveled 1500 miles every six weeks, providing her with the care she needed to be able to live in her house for as long as she could. Then she came to live with me.

My dad, who had always always been downright cruel to me, also came to appreciate me in his old age. He enjoyed spending long periods of time at my house. I took care of him, too, though he did not live with me ---- he and my mom lived independently in the house I grew up in, till he died. I handled all medical issues, bought them most of their food, gave them vacations, even gave my dad regular pedicures (an important issue to old people).

My two brothers (yet another area in which straight men are inferior to gay men) did nothing, married women who hated our parents and treated them contemptuously, and pushed until the end, to put my parents in nursing homes. I never allowed that, and can look back on my life during this period of time, unhappy with the impact this has all had on my career, but with no regrets. I loved my parents, but my mom especially.

So it is NOT true that you always reap what you sow. If you love your children, even if you are a TOTAL pain in the ass, they usually love you back and treat you accordingly.

At least if they are female or gay men.

R62 You do realise that most people don't come from fucked up families?

Yes r66.

Some people are still spouting old Reagan era bullshit about "welfare queens" who are living nice lives off government aid. They are delusional, and don't know the facts about what it is like to try to rely on government aid in America.

Fucked up families meaning people who have a who have a job or any sort of life r68?

Most people can't drop everything to be a 24/7 caretaker for an elderly parent. I'm not sure what world you live in.

My mom who was about as dedicated as a person can be, tried to to take of my aging grandmother. She moved her into her house and everything. Even still she eventually had to put her in a nursing home.

R70, I can tell you this is not true.

If you put a parent into a nursing home you are spending WAY more than having someone come in and stay with your parents while you work. I know. I have been through this, twice.

Unless you are talking about some really cheap crappy facility that accepts only social security and neglects patients.

There are always ways to find a solution.

Taking care of elderly parents is a thankless task that no one should put on their children. Every parent should plan their old age like any single person. Work your ass off and save every penny you can to ensure you can afford in home care. There is no fulfillment, happiness or satisfaction in caring for an elderly parent. Only pain. One of the reasons I’m glad I didn’t have kids is not to put a child through that misery. Straight men learn to shut out the neediness and guilt - gay men and women should do the same. We take it on so the straight men and government don’t have to take responsibility - as with child care and so many other societal support functions.

I have taken care of my 96 yo mom for 20 years, and it's far from a thankless task. However, I have an exceptional mom. I see lots of elderly parents around who would be difficult to care for.

You're a gorgeous human being, R67.

As a child of parents who had me for their own needs and treated me like a servant as soon as I could walk, I refuse to care for them in their old age. Unfortunately, I assume other people had the same upbringing but am reminded that some people truly love their parents and want to car for them. Good for you - and good of you. But I hate the parents who have kids to fill the holes in their own lives and expect their children to exist for them and take care of them.

R71, we got a HHA to live in @ 400 a week. My parents are good people; there are 9 of us still alive out of 10. There home is paid for and rather than stress them out about running through their savings, we all chip in and pay for the aide. Parents are 86/89, still have all their faculties; we just feel better with someone else in the house. My mom doesn't drive and my dad can't drive at night. This works out well for everyone.

Thanks R74! Don't often get kind words on DL! --R67.

[quote]If you put a parent into a nursing home you are spending WAY more than having someone come in and stay with your parents while you work. I know. I have been through this, twice

It is about the level of care they need. My mother was not a strong women, her mother could barely move much at the end and she could not lift her on her own and do everything for her. She needed more care than could be provided in a home environment.

In my 20s having kids was the furthest thing from my mind. Now in my thirties my husband and I have discussed it, but decided that it wouldn’t be fair to kids to have them so late. Kids deserve young parents, not geezer parents in their 50s by the time they graduate from high school.

Are you posting from the 1950s r79? Everyone has kids in their 30s these days. Among college educated men the average age to become a father is currently 33.3.

I have 3 kids and two of them have their own kids. If I was starting out today I would never bring kids into this miserable world.

I once had a friend who told me they have them, because it was the only thing they could do right.

Research anti-natalism. It is kinder to the world and to the child to not have them.

We think kids deserve happy and healthy parents.

We are not those parents.

We're too old and both have tenuous career paths and elderly parents to care for, so no kids for us.

[quote]There home is paid for

Oh, dear!

[quote] "These children will be a nuisance...heirs for crumbling Pendersley. Mother calls it 'marriage'; I call it damnably unimaginative. Why always children? For Love to end where it begins is far more beautiful."

They're strapped for cash BECAUSE they have 6 kids. In my experience its either people who had lots of siblings and loved of or people who were only children and hated it.

Breeders are idiots

A world without middle children is a world without compromise.

Frau here--one kid, whom I adore, but I've never really wanted more than one. I have a friend, though, who has five. I don't think it's about her ego, per se--she doesn't seem to live through them, brag about them excessively, or anything. She does really, really love kids though. Now that her kids are older, she teaches younger children. She once told me that whenever her kids started to crawl, she started wanting to have another kid.

She had a tough childhood with a negligent single mom, so I think for her, having a large family of her own was filling a sort of void. She's a really good mom--calm, patient, tolerant, organized and fine with noise and being on-call 24/7. Her husband is similar and also always wanted a bunch of kids. It is expensive, but they vacation cheaply (camping), do a lot of their own add-ons/carpentry and the kids go to public schools and universities. And they're fine and comfortable with that. When the last kid leaves, they plan to get an RV and travel around, so not all that different from what they already do.

They're the exception, not the rule, but there are some people who genuinely get a sense of fulfillment from having kids--it's kind of a vocation.

You get more welfare the more kids you shit out.