Wimbledon 2018 - Part IV

thanks OP!

damn this men's final will be between 2 of the top underweight guys on tour. They could both use 10 pounds of muscle or so

Pam's a Duchess too

I like!

Calm down Carlo.

I hope the jinx doesn't work this time. I really want Nole to win.

Despite all the marital drama, bitterness, bottled up lesbianism, and nightly alcoholic beverages mixed with painkillers, Pam still looks pretty good.

we need to talk about kevin

we're going to talk about kevzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…………….

sorry, fell asleep mid-sentence

While I’m in the gym doing everything I can to one day be where I want to be my @hopmancup partner @angie.kerber just became Wimbledon champion. Well done Angie I couldn’t be happier for you 🏆

Is this where we talk about Hopman Cup?

Is it true that Hopman Cup is to be discontinued?

R12, we shouldn’t comment about Hopman Cup until we determine whether this is the place to talk about Hopman Cup.

Of course you shouldn't discuss the Hopman Cup here...is the thread titled "Hopman Cup 2018?" Start a different thread even if it is just back to the generic overall tennis thread.

R14 MARY (Pierce)!

From previous thread. Capriari also beat Serena in 4 majors. Twice on clay, grass and hard courts. Only her Henin did that. Who I've always claimed were her only true rivals. She feared and loathed both. Who else has that many major wins on her?

Davenport only had 1, I think.

So an articulate, funny, self-deprecating, intelligent guy with a great body and game puts you to sleep, R8/R9? How unfortunate.

Nomination for most unpleasant comeback of the year goes to Djokovic.

R16, agree and neither feared her either. Especially Capriati! No one was gonna push Jen around lol. She was kinda scary. Serena might punch you but Jen would cut a bitch.

Capriati and Hingis are the skankiest skanks who ever skanked.

I'm still disappointed that the WTA canceled that booze cruise that Jen C. was going to be the star of a few years ago.

JCap and Hingis were close pals. I always assumed they did lines and talked the best shit on the tour in coke binges. I'm sure Serena came up many times as they partied.

Capriati is a deplorable

I forgot Sam Stosur, USO F, RG Semi. R16

Capriati was a deplorable before people reveled in being deplorables.

Capriati is and has always been crazy. But she was a fun player to watch. A lot of drama and lots of classic matches. Real competitor despite her crazy. She's also in testing because she was successful in 2 different eras of tennis. And different from Serena now. She really faced all the game's best in two eras. What Serena faces now is not in the same conversation.

*interesting

Is capriati in the hall of fame?

Yes she is. She played Navritalova, Graf, Seles and Sabinitini at their peak and Hingis, Davenport, Venus, Serena, Clijsters and Henin at theirs. Her game played well all around. It's why she feared nobody.

When the power game came to be Hingis couldn't beat any of these girls. Davenport, Capriati, Venus and Serena were just blowing her off the court. She just couldn't play with them.

Capriati banged male porn stars, did meth, stalked random dudes, shop lifted, feuded with her father, made millions, traveled the world and now lives alone in Florida dreaming of her past glory. She's a DL icon.

And she lived a full life.

Male porn starS? R32

Dale Dabone (okay only one).

So Margaret Court's grand slam record lives on. Serena probably isn't going to get a better shot than this one. Kerber was just too good on the day.

A stat you'll never hear discussed on ESPN, Roger Federer vs Nadal/Djokovic in Grand Slam matches: 9-18.

Australian Open: 2-6

French Open: 1-6

Wimbledon: 3-3

US Open: 3-3

Are Billie Jean and Martina Navratilova big fans of Serena? Was just watching the final, and when Kerber won, it looked like the two of them had been sucking on lemons during the match.

Damn! I was rooting for Klaasen-Venus! Mike, you dirty dog! 👏🙄 You definitely have bragging rights for a while. Huge congrats, fellas. 🍾 Amazing stuff!

read the comment of Nick and Kokk on sasha instgram post

R37, it’s not easy carrying a cane all the time.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Interesting comments above about Captiati. She really was the bridge between two eras of women's tennis, and she could have won quite a few more Majors if she hadn't gone on that long hiatus. And it was during that interval that Hingis was able to emerge.

^^Capriati

Capriati didn't do much against the Graf-Seles generation. She got to a few Slam semis, but she never seemed to mentally recover from losing to Seles in the 1991 US Open semis. In 1993, she lost three straight Slam semi quarterfinals to Graf, all in straight sets, then crashed out of the US Open in the first round. Then she dropped out of the game until the late 1990s.

Her comeback in the early 2000s with three Slam victories was an amazing turnaround. But she wasn't a factor after the 2004 season. Sad in many ways. I do think had she not had so many emotional problems, she may have won more. I remember when she beat Navratilova at the 1991 Wimbledon semis, her mother wondered if it was all happening too soon. Turned out her mother was right.

R31: That's false, Hingis was able to beat Capriati, Serena, Venus and Davenport, unfortunately for her she was never fit enough to win three matches in a row against big hitters. IN fact she was able to defeat Venus and Serena on the same GS. But she reached the final on her last three AO without gas. That and the fact that she had a tendency of start the matches not that focused, made impossible for her to win another GS in the 00's Henin was able to evolve, Hingis was not. But if you were the first big hitter in her draw you probably end losing.

Capriati career was smashed by her own success, she was too successful too soon, and unfortunately that inmense pressue came when Seles was at the top of her game. Capriati was able to defeat Seles, Graf, Arantxa, Navratilova very young, unfortunately the expectations were so high that making semifinals of a GS at 15 and making the number one do her best to defeat her was like a faliure for her (when it was a big achievement). She shone fast but she fade even faster

But she was able to come back when nobody was expecting her. Her matches against Serena were epic, both give their best. Most players were intimidated by Serena (Davenport was smashing Serena in the AO final only to collapse in the second set) but Capriati never was intimidated, if she lost it was because Serena was better that day

R39: They are sassy but both are big underachievers right now (unless fucking Donna Vekic is considered a big achievement). The truth is Zverev is younger but has a better career right now

[quote]They are sassy but both are big underachievers right now (unless fucking Donna Vekic is considered a big achievement).

Damn, r46, you almost made me spit out my coffee. LMFAO!!!!!!!!!

Jana Novotna 's student Barbora won doubles titles with Sinkova

15.06% of Djokovic career defeats came from Nadal

That's interesting, r49, because doesn't Djokovic have a winning record against Nadal?

1. Halep (Roland Garros)

2. Wozniacki (Australian Open)

3. Stephens (US Open)

4. Kerber (Wimbledon)

New WTA Top 10:

1. Halep

2. Wozniacki

3. Stephens (career high)

4. Kerber

5. Svitolina

6. Garcia

7. Muguruza

8. Kvitova

9. Pliskova

10. Goerges

That trend of different winners could easily continue, r51, because it's quite possible that Serena could win the U.S. Open if she continues to get back into shape.

R50: Yes, in fact he has a positive h2h against Nadal and Federer. Djokovic seemed destined to be a secondary actor, winning only GS only when the big two fail, but he revealed against that, he became a dominant player and started to defeat his two main rivals on regular basis.

The only thing that he failed is that he is way more inconsistent than Nadal and Federer on GS finals. He was defeated on GS finals not only more times but by more players

What order is that in, R51?

Not R51 here, but that looks to be the new WTA player rankings with Kerber's win.

Ah. I see. Silly me.

How far is Federer going to drop in the rankings?

DL favorite Coric and his girl

R58 He will stay ar 2 regardless of today's result

Djokovic in total control, up two breaks. This could be over with very quickly.

Anderson is having too much trouble holding his serve. The problem with big servers is that the serve is the first to crack when you are nervous. For a big server Federer is a way better rival on a final than Djokovic or Nadal who are great in the return to serve

Yes, R62, a Federer-Djokovic final would have no doubt been a much better quality match. Poor Anderson, though. He's facing vintage Djokovic. Nadal said after the semis that he wouldn't nor couldn't have done anything differently in that match. Nadal basically said he had to play more aggressively than normal because you have to do that to beat an in-form Djokovic. Nadal pretty much said he accepted the loss because beating a Djokovic who is playing well is such a difficult task. Funny, too, because much like the 2009 Roddick-Federer match, it felt to me like Nadal was playing better than Djokovic but still lost.

Djokovic (and indeed Murray) has no problem with servebots when fit.

If Anderson is able to hold his serve in the beginning of the second set maybe he'll have a chance. But if he keeps getting trouble with his serve the only way to win is Djokovic collapsing, and after two years waiting to come back i think he'll be totally focused. Anderson has the confidence of defeating Federer, but Novak is a totally different kind of player and Anderson game is way more effective against a player like Roger

The two gays in Anderson's box are still there. They are wearing white.

And he starts the second set losing his serve. Unless Djokovic lose focus Anderson is toast

It happened with Cilic last year, and it is happening now....very boring finals. Great players just collapse at the final and the public hates them for it.

I can understand a young player collapsing in his first GS final, or a random guy who reach the final by surprise (a la Verkerk) but Anderson (nor Cilic) are young players and they had experience in previous finals. A great player grows at the big stage. You even can be a journeyman and rise to the occasion like Johannson did

If they collapse in finals, they're not great players.

Anderson is a not-young 32, it's boiling hot, and he was exhausted even before the match started. Jacob Steinberg at the Guardian says it's the wrst Final in history. "Call it off."

Funny, r63, but I don't think Djokovic played his best against Nadal. I think he played just well enough to win. On Friday he rarely went for any down-the-line backhands, which could have really opened up the court for him. It was only in the 5th set yesterday that he had the confidence and the nerve to start going for that shot. When he has that shot working, he is absolutely deadly off the ground.

The worst Slam final in history that I've ever seen was Agassi's destruction of Rainer Schuttler at the 2003 Australian Open by a score of 6-2, 6-2, 6-1. We'll see if this match's score is anything like that. At least the first set was.

McEnroe destroyed Connors in the 1984 Wimbledon final 6-1, 6-1, 6-2, but McEnroe was playing so brilliantly that day and was at the peak of his game, so it was sort of a pleasure to watch his brilliance on display.

R71: It's a bit too soon to say something like that. It's not like there weren't very one sided finals in the past. Even great players had some heavy loses at Wimbledon finals, Rosewall, Connors (two times), Nalbandian or Cilci all suffered three clear set loses in Wimbledon finals

Whew, I'm glad we're just talking about men's GS finals.

Djokovic wants to get it over and done with so he can see France roll over Croatia.

LOL, R75! Didn't that whole 1988 French women's final match only last something like 25 minutes?

This sucks. Both the end result with this douche winning and the boring match.

Anderson should feel lucky to be in 2 GS final. He had such an easy draw at USO and this year Federer choked hard. Someone as good as Delpo only got to play in 1 GS final in his career.

Anderson played the longest-ever Wimbledon semi; Djokovic played the second-longest, more recently. If they'd had a 5th set tie-break, it would as likely be Isner being demolished as Anderson. b oth are players Djokovic eats for breakfast

It's quite possible, r77, because Steffi was such a fast server. She would have had no problem with a 25-second serve clock. In fact, she would have had no problem with a 5-second serve clock, LOL.

Well now, the Nadal/Djokovic semi was the real Wimbledon final this year. Despite his beautiful tennis, what a shame that Djokovic's on court personality is so unlikable. And really, the people in his box are unattractive.

Stefan Edberg is in the crowd. How is it possible that he looks even hotter today than when he was playing?

I looked it up, R81. It only lasted 32 minutes. Better than 25 minutes is about all you can say about that. I loved how both Graf and Seles were always quick to just get to it. If she missed a first serve, Monica would even catch balls if the other player hit the return back toward her and just use the same ball for her second serve. She just wanted to get on with it, as did Graf.

Poor Anderson is simply outclassed. As R79 observes, Anderson has been lucky to get to two Slam finals, particularly this one since Federer's play significantly dipped after going up 2 sets to love.

I've already moved on to looking forward to the Canadian Open. Or, rather 'Rogers Cup' as the sponsor has programmed you to say.

Tom Hiddleston is in the Royal Box.

No wise words from Uncle Studley today?

Nearest he'll ever get to a box.

Without his big serve working 100% Anderson just don't have weapons to compete against a player like Djokovic.

And the worst thing is that all his posibilities relied on starting well the match. Even if he is able to take a set from Djokovic i doubt he'll be strong enough to be competitive for five sets

Tehe, R88.

R84, as a viewer, that was one of the many reasons why I liked watching Seles and Graf play. But it often had to have been absolutely brutal for their opponents. When you're getting crushed and you can barely gather your thoughts and pull yourself together, your opponent is rushing you to play the next point. Poor Zvereva. That match was over before she even knew she needed a plan B, LOL!

Well at least this time Anderson avoid the break in his first serve of the set

People were saying Anderson was more than just a servebot; compared to Isner, maybe, but not a lot more.

Preparing myself for Djokovic's antics when he wins.

Will he fall on to his back or his knees?

Boobs-out?

Who would you rather and why: Hiddleston, Cumberbatch or Redmayne?

[quote] Will he fall on to his back or his knees? Boobs-out?

I say knees because he's had it easy. Definitely boobs out.

Redmayne absolutely, he's hot AF!

He may skip boobs-out since he will have an opportunity to speak to the crowd.

Tears through the acceptance speech?

R91: Poor Natasha, she defeated Navratilova only to be smashed in the final. I remember some jokes the following year saying Arantxa won more games than Zvereva after the match started (of course the jokes didn't last long given that Arantxa wasn't there to just see Steffi won again)

And how will he pay tribute to Anderson after paving him into the ground?

R93, I was just about to write a mea culpa. Yesterday, in the previous thread, I was arguing that Anderson has a much more well-rounded game than people give him credit for. Today, he's missing so many relatively easy volleys and ground strokes. I still think he's not just a servebot, but he's certainly not showing that today.

Which Zvereva?

R99, I don't remember that semi. Did Martina have a really off day, or did Natasha junkball her to death? Or maybe both?

R103, Natasha beat Martina in the Rd of 16, not the semis.

I would say the odds of Anderson winning are now is approximately 3,720 to 1.

Thanks, r104. I had no idea whom Zvereva beat in the semis so I had to look it up. Was it Chrissie? Or maybe Arantxa? To my surprise, it was Nicole Purvis, whom I've actually never heard of.

^^sorry, Provis and not Purvis

Maybe Nole will eat some more grass this time.

It should be mandatory to have a gay or two in your box.

What is all this "boobs-out" talk? Not getting it.

[quote] What is all this "boobs-out" talk? Not getting it.

For you, R110:

Don't falter now, Nole! We must uphold the East European winning tradition!

Et least Andersson ees nut going ta be a complete emberessment to Suth Efrica.

Djokovic is certainly making things unnecessarily complicated for himself.

In other sporting news, France just scored the first goal in the FIFA final.

pussy umpire cant even give warning to nole for repeated time violation

Are you timing him ESL?

becker and other guy is timing him . he is consistently taking him over 33 seconds

Holding my breath!

Cilic, Korda, who else from behind the former Iron Curtain has been caught doping?

I like Nole but his antics are very off-putting. He is always screaming at someone when things do not go his way. Who was the You,You he was addressing?

Nole!!!

Umm, let's just talk about the men, r120.

[quote] Cilic, Korda, who else from behind the former Iron Curtain has been caught doping?

Whew, I'm glad we're just talking about the men.

t115,Croatia plz dont fuck this up

Barf

[quote] Maybe Nole will eat some more grass this time.

And R108 for the win.

So Murray is still the only player to have beaten Djokovic in a Wimbledon final.

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!

Hole

Nole

Surely they will retire the Duke of Kent soon!

Absolutely detest Djokovic. Oh well, at least it's not Isner, though they're equally insufferable.

I don't know how fatigued Anderson was from that marathon semi, but props to him for making the 3rd set competitive. I also liked that he tried to change things up by coming to the net a little more. It didn't work but at least he tried something different.

The OP jinx pic did not work in this thread.

As a fan of the big 4 and tennis and General, I have to say that Novak is so unlikable and off-putting. He fronts like he is this centered and spiritual person, but you can just tell he is a prick. His antics on court are obnoxious (they were versus Nadal as well) and the boob throwing celebration is cringey every time. Would be totally fine if he doesn’t win another slam.

Anderson is pure class.

R137, you are so right.

What an ass, Djokovic is even in his comments.

R136 you described him perfectly: He fronts like he is this centered and spiritual person, but you can just tell he is a prick.

And yes R137 Anderson really gave a very nice speech

What an ass Djokovic is even in his comments.

It appears Mrs. Clooney's bright yellow frock at the recent Royal Wedding has started a trend: today the Duchess of Cambridge wearing the same dress (as below), though today at Wimbledon it is "Amal Yellow."

What Anal is doing in royal box?It seems these days any Tom, Dick or Barry can access royal box

Barry?

yes because harry has right to be royal box

in royal box

It’s Harry not Barry.

Mary!

Who's the old guy who Djokovic kissed? He was standing next to Stan Smith.

Yay!!!!! I am so happy the jinx didn't work! Nole has been my favourite player for nearly 12 years now, and it is amazing to see him back playing so well after these two tough years.

He pings sometimes.

Condolences on your lack of taste, R150.

Nole!! Yaaas!

Hole!! Aaaass!

"Nole!! Yaaas!" x 10 million 'Yaaases'!!!!!!

Puig!

I thought his post-game comments were all good. Haters gonna hate, I guess.

Only because there's such a wide variety of his behavior to hate.

R151 I've been thinking that since I first saw him play last year and wondering why no one else mentioned it...

I hope Nole wins 8 more GS to overtake grandpa

I think its more realistic for Nadal to overtake grandpa . But I'm all for Nole to doing it too - pushing grumps down to 3rd. If that happens , who now will be the GOAT?

Stefanos Tsitsipas - I don't think he pings at all.

He won't, R160.

I love Djokovic's game, but I also don't pretend that he is this humble nice guy he's been impersonating the last 6-7 years. He's always been an arrogant asshole, and that's helped his game. But, he wants to be loved, and he plays so blatantly to the crowd in that regard. It's kinda sad, actually, and I wish he would just embrace being a "bad boy" and cement a place in history with a lot more verve than this boob-pushing cringe-inducing bullshit. People are never going to love you, Nole, and definitely never more than Fedal.

I think Nadal's body is giving out. I wouldn't be surprised if he retired before Federer.

Good luck with that--Federer was already at GS #17 at Djokovic's age, and Djokovic's body is unlikely to hold out much longer with all of the injuries that he's had. The only GOAT he's going to attain is in appearance, and an old cross-eyed one at that.

R162 It's some little things about him when you watch him play..

....

Djokovic will probably win about 4 or 5 more majors at best.

Murray and Azarenka are in the finals.

Judy Murray looks haggier (not haggisier).

The US Open is next! Nole will return an even more finely tuned machine!

Can't wait!

Haha, R152. I think I have excellent taste actually.

I too wish he'd give up on wanting the public's love though. Most have been indoctrinated by Federer and his worshippers in the media, so it would take some serious deprogramming to win them over.

He should embrace their dislike/"hate" and use it as fuel as Murray basically suggested.

Which Murray, R173?

B. Murray

Murray and Azarenka are lucky to have reached the final. They have absolutely zero chemistry.

Had they even met before this tournament?

Who was Murray's former partner?

When Nole's gay sex tape is finally released, some crazed Serbian bigot will kill him....

He's played mixed with Jankovic and Hingis before. Won Wimbledon twice and the US Open.

Thanks, R179.

Nole's kid is a cute little munchkin.

To clarify, Andy Murray was talking about Djokovic getting angry, not directly about the crowd.

As for Jamie...his regular doubles partner was jealous, haha.

I actually wondered about him early on in his career, R178. And I still love the moment Delpo unzipped his shirt in the middle of their match...I always felt they had chemistry.

The number of Djokovic stans on this thread.....bleah.

I've posted before, what I like about Djokovic is the fact that he reached No. 3 behind Federer and Nadal, and was stuck there for a few years (2008-2010), but while many of his peers just folded, or coasted and said Federer/Nadal were too good, Djokovic improved. He worked on his fitness, he worked on his serve, he improved his volleys, etc. While Roddick and Blake and others just moaned about how tough it was to try to win in the Fed/Nadal era, Djokovic said screw that, and showed it could be done.

I can appreciate why some don't care for him, but he earned my respect by forcing his way to the top.

Any comments from Agassi, who was throwing shade at Djokovic a few weeks ago?

Who is the hottie at 0:20?

Now the boys!

I love the Novak won. You know somewhere Princess Federer started smashing things when he saw that result.

R165: People are expecting Nadal to retire almost from the beginning of his career. I thought he would be retired by now, he was a teen prodigy and that usually becomes a mental burden after years of career, he is a heavy player with a very defensive game, his knees suffer a lot. but the truth is he won RG and made semifinals here, so unless he starts to play way worse (and he was even able to recover after a two year slump) i doubt he'll retire anytime soon.

And i don't know if Tsitsipas pings or not, but he seems way more inteligent that your average player

[quote] You know somewhere Princess Federer started smashing things when he saw that result.

And another Federer was just eating her way through fear and anger. I don't have proof, but I just know. Call it intuition.

R189, is he smarter than your average bear?

Brookie, are you going to eat that donut?

R186, Christian Harrison.

Bartoli has really raised her profile with her controversial comments this Wimbledon.

I think she's realised how lucrative a commentator's career can be and has decided to get her name out there. She'll always be a semi-household name here in the UK after winning Wimbledon but even non-tennis fan friends of mine have been remarking on her recent comments. I love her, I think.

Is Christian Harrison Popsicle’s new boyfriend?

Also I detest Kudla’s beard.

Every time I start to appreciate Novak, his real personality comes out and I end up detesting him. His monstrous family deserves some of the blame but he’s old enough now to know better.

R186, that's Christian Harrison. Ryan's chronically injured but better looking younger brother.

I totally agree with you, r184. And that's one of the reasons why I dislike Federer, because he has been loathe to give Djokovic any credit for Novak's amazing accomplishments. Nadal, on the other hand, has been much more gracious about it.

Federer considers Djokovic beneath him and terribly low class. He was the one who insisted Djokovic stop doing those impersonations.

Not a fan of any of the Big 3, but as a brash young upstart, Djokovic started off on the wrong foot with his mocking imitations of Federer and Nadal. Of course that was just a minor preview of his major assholery to come.

I'm so ready for someone like Tsitsipas, Tiafoe, or Coric to put these three to pasture.

The imitations were hilarious, especially his take on Sharapova. Roger has a major stick up his ass. One of the reasons he despises Novak is because unlike Nadal, Novak never sucked up to Fed.

Well, yeah, Djokovic is a disrespectful jerk, funny sometimes, but still a jerk.

R197: Yes, poor guy. He was way more promising than Ryan. I remember him from when he played Les petits as agains Carlos Boluda. Poor Carlos, he was supposed to be the next big thing, the problem is his parents really believed that and made a lot of changes that affected him negatively. From being the best european u14 player ever to not even being able to make it to top 500 during a lot of years (injuries played a factor but losing his confidence was the worst). Curiously he never give up and now he is top 300 and making finals on the low income tournamnets. i hope someday he can play a GS (given the players are getting older and older on the top positions maybe he can enjoy some good years)

True, r201. And most of the Novak haters are Roger stans.

I dont mind the big 3. Obviously they are amazing legends of the sport that have taken it to new heights. But I hope in the next 5 years a young group of guys currently on the radar or not step up to challenge or upend them. It would be good for the sport as a whole.

Having good reputation makes everything easier. Nadal and Federer have good reputation, there were years and years of being as neutral as they can, of not having an interesting opinion, on praising rivals they defeated (they are way less generous when they lose). Right now they can kill a rival stabbin him in the back and people will make excuses for them.

Novak was considered funny when he started, but when he became a threat he was not funny anymore. Crowds don't love him, and in my opinion he should not even try to be liked. Crowds hated Navratilova and in the end they had to admit how great she was anyway

I'd love to see Djokovic get a taste of his own medicine. The imitators would have a field day with the number of things to mock.

It's fine to not like a particular player, but the kind of abuse Novak got at the US Open when facing Roger was just ridiculous.

I doubt he'd mind if they were actually any good, R207.

Good point about Navratilova, r206. Another player who also wasn't liked throughout her career except at the end was Graf. So, yeah, maybe Djokovic should just forget about being liked and let his racket do the talking, and eventually the crowd will come around. And yet, on the other hand, Lendl was never liked even at the end of his career.

As with anything Djokovic, R209, it'd probably depend on whether he was having a Jekyll or Hyde day.

[quote] I'm so ready for someone like Tsitsipas, Tiafoe, or Coric to put these three to pasture.

[quote] I dont mind the big 3.

Four. It's four!

[quote]Crowds hated Navratilova and in the end they had to admit how great she was anyway

Remember how, after someone confused her for Monica Seles, she snapped, "No, I wear a bra when I play..."

I agree with R204 that a reserve of good will built up along the way can help in the odd circumstance when one is grumpy or really doesn't get a long with a certain player, but if your general schtick is to be a dick, you deserve any dickishness headed your way.

Federer, the human Rolex, considers Nole just so much Balkan trash.

The big 4 are over. Since Wawa has won 3 slams, he's as good as Andy Murray who also happened to win 3 slams. So it's either the big 3 or the big 5 but the big 4 are no more.

Djokovic certainly has stayed thin and lithe.

I am a Federer fan and I'm glad Djokovic is back playing well. I mean, it's good for tennis and it's not like the younger generations are stepping up.

R215: GS winners are not the meassure of all. Murray is a way more consistent player than Stan, he has more titles. more GS finals, he was number one.

Stan is kind of unique player, very inconsistent but when he is in destroyer mode he is a beast

Next up the best slam. The US Open!

R184, I agree with you about Djokovic earning my respect. The way he stepped up in 2011 showed a lot of resolve considering the stranglehold Federer, and particularly Nadal at that point, had on the Slams.

R188, no way is Federer pissed about Djokovic winning. He's just glad Djokovic took out Nadal. Djokovic is 7 Slams shy of Federer's 20. Nadal is only 3 shy of tying. Federer would like to hold on to the overall Slam count, and Djokovic taking out Nadal here at Wimbledon helped that cause. I'm sure Federer would have preferred to see Anderson win, but in the end, he's likely far more grateful that Nadal got taken out as Nadal surely would have won the final against Anderson.

I agree with R218. Murray's overall resume is much more impressive than Stan's. Stan is, as R218 observes, a unique player and a giant killer when he's on, but his inconsistency makes him a notch below Murray who was getting to the later rounds of Slams consistently for years.

When the concept of the Big Four first appeared, Murray was included without a single slam then to his name. It was based on overall consistency and getting to the business end of tournaments across years. Stan has said himself that he he's nowhere near Murray in terms of career achievement.

Federer barely contains his disdain for Novak. Djokovic winning the GS that Fed considers "his" has to rankle

[quote] Next up the best slam. The US Open!

Dear lord no. It's fourth in my view even if (or perhaps because) it's the biggest. I like the tradition and beauty of the game at Wimbledon; the fun and efficiency of the Australian (it now exceeds the U.S. Open at its own game); and the intimacy and elegance of the French.

The US Open is crass, commercial, and loud, all of the worst US stereotypes combined with the worst NYC stereotypes. The night crowds are drunken nightmares.

Federer will be 37 in a few weeks. What probably rankles him most is his lost last real chance to win a Slam.

I agree with you, R224. However, I think Federer has a major or two left in him. He's won several majors recently, and with injuries of other players and weak, inconsistent younger players, he may yet prevail.

Fed is a prick. Novak's need to be 'liked' is annoying but like him I do. His reaction at winning today was completely classy. Fed would have rubbed it in. Then can take those RF hats of his and put a BA in front to them for what I think of his fucked up fans and in particular his 'in crowd' of that Vogue editor bitch.

This has probably been revealed here before and I just missed the earlier thread, but what, exactly, issues has Novak been working on overcoming for the last two years? John McEnroe always refers to things in such vague terms or "personal issues" that it's impossible to pinpoint.

[quote] but like him I do

When 900 years Nole reaches, look as good he will not.

R227, Tiger Woods-type issues. He had a million side chicks. His wife discovered it, and learned that his whole team had been covering for him. She blew a gasket and demanded that he fire them all. I guess she let his main coach come back when it was obvious that he needed him.

Thanks, R229. I figured it had to be more than that. She looked like she was having a nervous breakdown every time they showed her at one of his matches; not just today. At a minimum, she looks, um, high strung. His little boy was super cute. Novak is so much thinner than he used to be.

[quote] He should embrace their dislike/"hate" and use it as fuel as Murray basically suggested.

I'm watching the repeat coverage on Tennis Channel, and Courier basically said what R173 wrote about Djokovic - the rage works for him and he likes that side of Djokovic.

Where has Mark Stillitano btw.? He was constantly around Djokovic for a while.

Thanks, R231, I like knowing more people think so.

The person saying the US Open is the best was trying to trigger people. It worked.

If Djokovic is the Woods of tennis, i.e. screwing around big time, then I like him even less...if that's possible.

Murray was included with Nadal, Djokovic and Federer because he's an Anglophone. If he was from Poland or some place, nobody would've dared add him to that group.

I think people litigate Djokovic’s (admittedly complicated) personality because it’s hard to criticize his tennis.

Of course, R237, people expect professionalism, tact and good sportsmanship from a tennis champion. Instead from Djokovic they get raging at umpires and spectators, ranting at the ball boys, ridiculous grandstanding, and cringe-worthy attempts to show the crowd what a lovable guy he is despite all evidence to the contrary. On top of that, apparently he's been a walking collection of STDs to bring home to his wife. What a role model.

Has Courier commented on former boyfriend and coach Brad Stine working for Anderson? I saw what seemed to be a lovers spat between them at the Jack Nicklaus Golf Center in Mason Ohio. They were jogging around the golf course and it started getting ugly - yelling, shoving. Just wildly nuts. This was at least 20 years ago.

Why is there speculation that Courier is gay? He's been married to a woman since 2010. I've seen him in person, and he did not ping.

Shapovalov

[quote]Instead from Djokovic they get raging at umpires and spectators, ranting at the ball boys, ridiculous grandstanding, and cringe-worthy attempts to show the crowd what a lovable guy he is

Heavens, no!

Four entries into the Tennis Hall of Asswipe Douchebros

I think Nole is a fine gentleman.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Every professional tennis player has had their share of ugliness on court. It's just that we forgive the players we're fans of, because we feel they're justified in their rants, while we rip the players we're not fans of and say it's language/behavior unbecoming a professional. Here's a video of Fed getting his panties in a knot.

I remember when Agassi was bitching about one of the linespeople in a Wimbledon semi final with Rafter (2001), then rifled a couple of service faults pointedly at the linesman. It's far worse than anything Fed, Nadal, or Djokovic has ever done, but the media and Agassi fans coThe ntinued to kiss his ass and proclaim him a wonderful sport and ambassador for the game. People will justify anything for their favorites, or crucify their least favorites. That's just the way it works.

Chrissie dragging Djokovic stans on twitter.

Go, Chris Evert. LOL.

That may be true for some fans, R246, but not all. To R213's point, it's a matter of degree. There are dyed-in-wool insufferably arrogant, whining, abusive assholes Nastase and Connors, rage-aholics like McEnroe, intermittent dicks Djokovic and Ivanisevic, and immature brats like A. Zverev and Kyrgios. Agassi was right up there with Nastase and Connors on occasion. Fedal generally keep their peevishness under wraps but have the occasional flare-ups over bad calls and then can be astoundingly full of themselves. None of that gets a pass from discriminating fans.

Kudos go to the pros who've always managed to be ambassadors of the sport: Laver, Newcombe, Ashe, Borg, Edberg, Wilander, Bruguera, Kuerten, Blake, Rafter. It's too bad that their ilk is in short supply these days.

Is ESL - Djokovic?

Honestly Anyone comparing what Nole went through to what Serena went through is an idiot. I mean he himself said it recently and he was just saying how tough it is for women who have a relatively straightforward pregnancy and childbirth. Serena was a whole other level. I say this as a Djokovic fan and not really a fan of Serena's. But it cannot be denied that her comeback has been amazing and I wish her the best of health.

People are acting like Serena is the only mother to ever play in the history of professional tennis, though. Kim Clijsters, Evonne Goolagong and Maggie Court all came back after giving birth and won grand slam tournaments. Court won three out of four grand slam events after giving birth. But now it's all "OMG SERENA GAVE BIRTH! SHE ALMOST DIED DURING CHILDBIRTH! SHE'S A GODDESS!" It's fucking sickening.

Serena Williams is an international superstar. Of course, the press is going to cover her like she’s special. She IS special. Yes, other mothers have played tennis and won Grand Slams. Serena won a Grand Slam while she was pregnant. She left the sport as the number one player. Of course, the media wonders if she will be able to capture her former glory. She did have medical complications with the child birth so, of course, it’s part of the story. AND Serena is trying to come back to tennis faster than many other new mothers do. Lastly, she drives ratings so the sports channels hype interest stories about her...because they do better when she’s in the tournament.

You don’t like her. Media coverage of her annoys you. But it’s like watching “The Voice” and being upset there are video sob stories for the contestants, it’s all a part of the show.

R252 I'm not saying people arent going overboard but look up info about her pregnancy. It wasnt straightforward and she had horrendous health problems to deal with afterwards.

I didn't fully read the comment above mine but I agree with r253

R44. Didn't do much???? She reached the Semis at RG at 14 and Wimbledon and USOpen at 15. Won Tier 1 tournaments and a gold medal in Barcelona where she took out S-V 1 and 1 in her home country and beat the number 1 player in the world (Graf) in the finals. And had wins over every elit player in the era by 16. Banked 10 million in endorsements and was ranked top 6 at her profession at 15. I wonder what you did by age 16 that was more than that so it seems like not much to you.

Did the Djoker give up the crazy diet or is he still on the Auschwitz bus to glory.

Of course those were remarkable feats, R256, overshadowed only by the extent to which she snorted and partied her way through the aftermath in so effectively eventually pissing it all away before and after her comeback.

R257, Djokovic has more of the look and demeanor of an Omarska tyrant.

I don't think it's any secret to anyone that Capriati was a crazy bitch. What a waste of what could have been.

Evert's comment was beyond cunty. Serena got TONS of lavish kudos for her accomplishment in coming back so soon after having a baby. I don't see why she had to drag Novak just because someone gave him a compliment. No one brought up Williams. They can both be praised.JFC!

Chrissie is a shit announcer but you just know she's a fun broad to hang with.

Chrissie should worry about her racist, druggie son whose life she helped decimate by divorcing his father. She knows what I'm talking about.

Spill, R262!

Her son Colton has had it very hard. I know people who know the family dynamic and Andy Mill really stepped it up to pull his son out of a bad situation. Chrissie's 'menopause' excuse was pretty lame for the reason she dumped Andy for Greg was pretty lame. It must have dawned on her that public perception of her went to hell when she broke up her family to get back in the headlines by marrying someone with a higher profile than Andy (and a bigger bank account than hers, even though her success as a tennis champion far exceeded anything Norman achieved).

Did Princess Prissy Pants Fed make any comment about Nole's win?

Which one of you datalounging bitches had to put Kylie Minogue's I Should Be So Lucky in the mix?

R252: You forget something, all those three were younger than Serena. Court and Goolagong playing on an era way less competitive. Clijsters came back after her retirement, she came in top form, she was young and having a child even was good for her, she suddenly didn't felt that much pressure. Her best tournaments were after the coming back. Instead of choking in matches that she had almost won, she was able to finish them winning. Serena is an old player by any standard, she had complications after giving birth and she is the greatest tennis player ever (to many) so it's obvious that she was going to have a lot of attention.

I understand people saying he is not on the same level than the other three, but the truth is in terms of success very few players of the last three decades have a better curriculum than him. It's true that he has a lot less GS than the other three, and he failed in most of his GS but he was able to defeat the other three at GS, his h2h against them is quite tight (something Wawrinka can't say). He is eclipsed by the other three, but his career is amazing

And about the behaviour on court, even the best behaved have their moments. Sometimes the crowds simply love a player no matter what they do. Connors was loved and he was way brattier than most players, and sometimes even a jerk. I understand why a player wants to be loved by crowds, it's a lot easier to play when the crowd root for you, but unless it's your behaviour what makes them not liking you, with time everything changes. They learnt to love players that were not beloved at first, if they have patience and have a good behaviour on and off court

Nolo is #1 with me

Serena probably lost the final because she was up all night changing nappies. I'm sure she has NO help.

This foreign born athlete in his corner of the sports world is running scared of late as two things have shed unwanted attention on how he reached the top. A fictional novel that came out last year that had a character based on him and a hack of his medical records by a wikileaks type group both make the same accusation - That he has seriously abused performance enhancing drugs throughout his entire career from a young age and the establishment of his sport has turned a blind eye to it. Two things that always made people suspicious - His superhuman ability to bounce back from injuries very quickly and his defined muscular frame which is more like a professional bodybuilder than athletes from this sport. Rafael Nadal ("Trophy Son")

R269: No, she lost her match because she is not even near her best form and unless most of her rivals Kerber is a top player and even more she is one of the few top players (the other one is Muguruza) who is not intimidated by Serena

R270: He's not that scared, he sued a former french polititian who said that all his injuries were just time he took off after being tested positive. He sued her, and won

R267, if you are responding to my post at R249, you completely ignored my point. I was referring to discriminating fans who don't condone the behavior of Connors et al and don't give them a free pass just because they've gotten old and are still out there playing. An old asshole is even worse than a young one since nothing has been learned with age. McEnroe and Agassi redeemed themselves by toning it down with age, but Connors and Nastase were jerks throughout their careers.

It's possible that Ashe and Edberg had some moments of misbehavior on the courts, but if so, those were extremely rare. Your argument that because players eventually get a pass from most of the crowd when they get old enough or accomplished enough, that makes it fine, doesn't fly.

Novak should let his chest hair grow out. He is such a cheeseball with that over-trimmed look.

Jack Sock is fucking Katie Boulter.

Thanks for the info, Nick, and sorry about Katie's taste.

R268 Well I am going to fantasise that is him. My god! He's always been sex on stick for me since the first time I saw him years ago. His body is insane.

Gross, Ichabod Crane with anger issues.

R151, he’s Greek, so I’m sure he knows his way around a pole, and knows just what to do with other men’s bits and bobs.

Tsitsipas found Thiem in Austria. If he is gay he has good taste in ass.

R273: Connors was a jerk but people love him anyway

Not this people.

It was actually supposed to be Sascha playing this exhibition (this village won a video competition to host it) but he had to cancel this morning, suffering from a virus and unable to fly. Tsitsipas was nearby apparently and offered to stand in for him.

R282: But the people at US Open 1991 loved him. Of course they were the same people that cheered every mistake Chang made in his match against McEnroe (it must be hard being booed in your own country for no reason)

R256, go back and read my post. I didn't write that she didn't do much in general. I wrote that she didn't do much against the Seles-Graf generation. You just went on to list her accomplishments of reaching Slam semis, which I acknowledged. Who cares about her endorsements? Those have nothing to do with her record against the Seles-Graf generation. And other than reaching the Slam semis in 1990 and 1991, she didn't get back to one again until 2000. Winning Tier 1 events was promising, but in that generation, it was unfulfilled promise at Slams. Also, what I did by the age of 16 has absolutely nothing to do with what Capriati did against the Seles-Graf generation. I do grant you the Olympic Gold Medal was her big accomplishment, but frankly no one much cares about Olympic medals as compared to Slam results. You're also wrong about her beating Sanchez-Vicario 6-1, 6-1 in the Barcelona Olympics. Capriati actually beat her 6-1 in the third. Beating Sanchez-Vicario 6-1 in the third on clay hardly qualifies as doing something special as Seles and Graf used to straight-set S-V fairly routinely, even on clay.

The reality is her big results came in the 2000s. And I did go on to rave about her comeback in the early 2000s as amazing. I have nothing against Capriati, but she was more unfulfilled promise in the Seles-Graf generation than something special. She was something special in the early 2000s, though, playing against a tough generation of big hitters.

After Seles was stabbed, Arxanta and Conchita stepped up in place of Jennifer and Gaby. Capriati and Sabatini had the appeal where those Spanish lasses were lacking but the wins were drying up for JC and GS.

Sabatini was an interesting case. After the Seles stabbing, she had a downturn after a fairly strong 1992. Sabatini was a head case, though, who could blow seemingly insurmountable leads. I remember she was destroying Mary Joe Fernandez at I think the 1993 French Open 6-1, 5-1, then lost 10-8 in the third after Fernandez saved a bunch of match points. Sabatini also should have won 1991 Wimbledon but up a break served balloons that Graf teed off on. Graf won that one 8-6 in the third.

Hiddleston hasn't been near a box in years. Certainly not mine.

Saylor, meet R98. R98 shares your sentiment.

Saylor, meet R88. R88 shares your sentiment.

R286: That's not true, ASV results pre Seles stabbing were consistent and maybe my memory fails but she was ahead Capriati on the rankings. On GS Arantxa always was way more dangerous to the top players than Sabatini, before the stabbing Arantxa had 1 GS and 2 finals, and she reached the final rounds almost in all GS for three years

Data through April 1993 (pre-stabbing): a lot of similarities between Sabatini and Sanchez, but noticeable edge to Sabatini. Post-stabbing, the edge is clearly to Sanchez-Vicario, although Sabatini played only about 3 years following the stabbing, as injuries/disinterest kicked in.

Sabatini Slam Record: 121-29, 1 title, 2 Runner-Ups, 12 Semifinals

Sanchez Vicario Slam Record: 73-20, 1 Title, 2 Runner-Ups, 5 Semifinals

Sabatini Year-End Ranking: No 3 (3 years), No. 4 (1 year), No. 5 (1 year), No. 6 (1 year) No. 9 (1 year)

Sanchez-Vicario Year-End Ranking: No. 4 (1 year), No. 5 (2 years), No. 7 (1 year)

Sabatini vs. Top Ten: 71-86, vs. Graf 11-24, vs. Navratilova 5-13, vs. Seles 3-8, vs. Sanchez-Vicario 11-7

Sanchez-Vicario vs. Top Ten: 31-58, vs. Graf 4-19, vs. Navratilova 1-11, vs. Seles 1-10, vs. Sabatini 7-11

R291 you are confused about what I meant. From a marketing standpoint and a drawing card for tourneys, Jennifer and Gaby were more desirable than the Spanish gals. They just chose to suck at a time they could have filled the gap with Seles gone. A trio of Steffi, Jen and Gabriela with Martina still around as well, would have served the game well. JC got stuck in the qf's losing to Graf in 1993 3 times and Gaby, well she fell apart.

R293: That's true, but marketing and game are not the same. Arantxa said that when she started to play she was told that she would never achieve what Sabatini was destined to achieve. They were wrong because even with a lot of flaws in her game (and some great things, because people tend to forget that she was faster than anyone, had a great volley and a very good backhand) her mental strenght make her dangerous even for women with more weapons. Sabatini stopped her progression very soon. She seemed destined to fight with Graf for the big titles but she took a secondary role too fast (and she faded from being a top player at a relatively young age). In 1993 the main difference between Sabatini and ASV is that the argentinian was a player with no progression in her game while Arantxa seemed ready to compete against Graf and Seles (even with the clear dissadvantage of not being as talented as them)

Seles stabbing was a shock and Arantxa didn't even regain her best game till the following year

With Capriati the problem was that the things that make her so marketable were the same the make her fail. She was having great results, she was able to cause trouble and even defeat the best players in the world (wich is an amazing achievement because it was an era with top players who were not only great but mentally very tough) but losing at a semifinal of the US open with 15 yo against an amazing Seles was looked as a failure instead of the beginning of a great career. And that had a cost for her. Being considered the next best thing and not being able to fullfill the hype so soon make her going downhill (of course there were a lot of personal thing that make her a trainwreck).

Conchita is a marketing nightmare (ASV was very popular in Spain, and she had a lot of fans for her fighting spirit), she is not charismatic and even she had talent to compete with anyone she never had the right attitude to do it

[quote] JC got stuck in the qf's losing to Graf in 1993 3 times

I did not! Take that back.

R295: Well, Jim your downfall started in 1993 too with the RG loss against Bruguera

You know I've always liked (and lusted for) Courier. He got royally screwed when the USTA appointed little brother McEnroe to succeed Older Asshole Brother John. It took marriage to a woman and the production of a child to get the Davis Cup captaincy. Make no mistake I think he's 'liberal' enough to sample the same sex. Supposedly he and former pro Chris Woodruff lived together for a time.

I think the rumours about Courier came from Navratilova (indirectly). She said that one male tennis player struggled with being gay and some people thought it was him (because they were friends).

I know a lot of people criticied when athletes came out of the closet once their career is over but even the brave thing is doing when you are competing the truth is if enough athletes come out when their career is over it would be way easier for athletes competing.

The problems is the athletes just don't come out. Maybe is because of their business or because of conservative upbringing, or because they became commentators of their sport or because they don't want to be in the limelight once they don't compete, but they just don't step up.

The truth is a good tennis player could get a lot of endorsements if he comes out. Maybe there are some homophobes on the circuit but the enviroment seems very far from being hostile. Of course the distraction could be very big and once you start to lose the interest is totally gone (Bouchard can say a lot about that). But tennis is the perfect sport to come out, if you are good enough you don't even need endorsements to get money (and i think labels would love an openly gay player if he is marketable wich means reasonable handsome and good player), it's not a team sport, you don't need to convince your team mates or your coach, and in the end you depend of yourself. Other athletes risk way more if they come out.

I suppose in ten years we'll see a lot more gay athletes given that young people come out to a younger age (that is happening on actors and singers wich don't mean that there are way more closeted and in pr relationships than open)

While I agree with a lot you've said, R298, I think one of the reasons we've not had an out, gay male player is down to the individual nature of the sport that you mention. While there isn't a team you have to convince, there also isn't that support network a friendly team environment would provide. Also, with so much of tennis being in the head, why would someone give themselves another thing to make them different?

It's like that meme about people not choosing to be gay because why would anyone choose the difficulties it can bring. I think that's a big reason no-one has come out while on the tour yet. Why go through all the negative aspects of coming out? I wouldn't be surprised if there are players out there who are out to friends and family but are keeping it quiet from the public as it would be HUGE news and it's unpredictable how such intense attention would affect their game.

Look what happened to Michael Sam.

I agree with R299 about the team point - it might initially seem more daunting to have to come out to your teammates than in an individual sport, but with the coming out stories we've heard, the teammates have been supportive, and then you have that group around you that accepts you and can protect you even if some parts of the extrernal world disapprove. In an individual sport you have only your coach/physio basically. The other people you'll be sharing the locker room with are your opponents. Not to mention that the set of opponents in the locker room changes somewhat every week.

Also, most of the out ahtletes are Americans or from a handful of other liberal countries, but tennis is a very global sport. Perhaps the gay/bi tennis players in the top 100 are not from these countries but from more conservative countries.

R300: On tennis what happened to Michael Sam could not happen to the player. And there's other way to see it, look at what happened to Ian Thorpe.

Yes there are people who are completely comfortable on the closet or even bearding, but there are people who can't progress if they don't feel free.

In my opinion there are a couple of things that are against an openly gay player. First there are no gay retired players, you have to look at Bill Tilden or Gottfried Von Cram to find references. Second, the pros are the people in the top 100 wich are not that much. It's possible that noone is really gay (it's not like a soccer league were there are so many players that it's impossible all of them being straight). Coming out could be a burden, there'll be a lot of flashing lights a lot of questioning that could be against the natural progression of the player (maybe not the best thing for a new player). Of course there'll be criticism between the gay community if the guy is not good enough (or good looking enough).

So in my opinion there'll be only a gay player in the following years if 1) the guy is catched in fraganti dating a guy, 2) a veteran had enough with the closet and decides to come out, 3) he is a new player who was already out before reaching the atp tour-

And of course there's the possiblity that the gay players are from homophobic countries. If we believe that jerk journalist that almost out a bunch of gay athletes on the Olympics

[quote] First there are no gay retired players

There aren’t?

R303 - I don't agree with JMG's failure to come out, but I can understand it.

It'd be front page news on pretty much every sports page everywhere. If you're having a good time out with your friends and being pretty much 'out' on social media (and we can guess his friends and family), why bother upsetting that status quo by creating a media shitstorm?

It's a horrible situation these people find themselves in. They'll be criticised for coming out or not coming out. These days it isn't about the criticism they'll get for being gay, it's about what they do once they're out and gay. Can you imagine having to keep the various gay factions happy? Look at how the 'gay community' completely turns on out gays for not meeting their various expectations.

Please let the first one be Benoit Paire.

No one under 50 who's in the Royal Box is anything but a desperate PR whore.

[quote] Can you imagine having to keep the various gay factions happy?

Does that include the “T” in LGBT?

You don't have to keep anyone happy, you need to be happy yourself, period. Other people (Mark Foster, Ian Thorpe, Colin Jackson) they came out after retiring and it was not a problem (in Thorpe's case was clearly the correct thing to do, he looks better now that he looked all those years and way happier and healthy). A retired player will not cause any storm in the media, a couple of interviews and it's all done.

For a current player it would be a different story, and of course it all depends of the character of the player and the moment he is on his career.

On team sports is way more complicated, specially in big team sports. You have to be your team mates supporting you (wich is generally the less complicated thing) but you depend of your coach and the bosses of your team. A tennis player coming out would recieve a lot of support from fans (yes, some won't like it, but there are a lot of people who will support him) i don't think a soccer player in Europe could say that, and of course he will have to deal with hooligans (generally linked to the far right). Of course the situation is not the same in all clubs, in Spain Rayo Vallecano (a team from Madrid) made a lot of things supporting gay rights, and their radical supporters are from extreme left (so less probabilities of being honophobes) but the truth is a soccer player knows the club he is playing today but not the one he'll play tomorrow. When there's a lot of money involved things get way more complicated

Support from international fans (actual tennis fans) but not necessarily their home country fans. And someone who is not a top 5 level star probably also depends on their reputation in their home country for sponsors.

What if the hypothetical gay player we're all rooting for to come out isn't a popular hunky top 20 player from a big country with a good record on gay rights but someone like, say, Jerzy Janowicz or Sergey Stakhovsky?

R309: Yes the country is important in this case (even a lot of them don't live in their countries). There are a lot of factors, sponsors are not going to abandon you for coming out (probably the opposite). That could happen in the 80's, maybe in the 90's but not now. Second, if you are a top 20 (maybe top 50) you can't earn enough even without sponsors.

There's no sport where come out could be easier than tennis. And of course, when you come out you do it because you want it, not to gain fans, not to gain sponsors, not to be loved (if you get fans and sponsors fantastic but that's not the reason behind coming out).

There's a lot of things to consider (some people live well with the extra pressure, some people don't, the same way there are people who are completely fine with a live of lies and others don't fell comfortable).

But the truth is other people in minority sports, people who earn way less and depend totally of sponsors took a way bigger risk coming out than the risk a tennis player would face (and like in the big team sports money is a factor, but no because they couldn't earn money, but maybe they will earn less, even in my opinion with the right circumstance it would be the opposite)

[quote] Second, if you are a top 20 (maybe top 50) you can't earn enough even without sponsors.

Can or can’t?

R311: Sorry, you can obviously earn enough being a top 20 (in case of male tennis top 50).

It seems i suffer from Trump's syndrome and i can't differenciate between affirmative and negative (at least i have the excuse that english is not my language)

Oh, please--if Gambill came out at this point, there'd be little or no ripple effect whatsoever. His sexuality is already easily discernible through any media search, and he never surpassed the American second tier of the ATP top 10 like Sampras, Agassi, Blake, Martin, Chang, Courier, Roddick, etc., among those of roughly his same era. His best results were a Wimbledon quarter, the finals in Miami, the semis in Indian Wells, and champion of 3 500 events (Delray Beach twice, Scottsdale once). Nobody would bat an eye.

A few years back some South American former player (whose highest ranking was like 300 or something) and it was covered by every gay and sports site as he was the first former pro to come out.

I think someone like JMG coming out would be much bigger news as it's more likely people will have heard of him. People will remember having seen him in the QFs of Wimbledon for example.

You have a point, R314, but obviously it wouldn't be news to any of us who pay attention to that sort of thing. I wonder if the deplorable Donaldsons just choose to look the other way.

R314: Colin Jackson or Mark Foster were way more prominent profiles in their sports than JMG in tennis. There were interviews, some congratulations on twitter and that's all. Not even Thomas Hitzlsperger who was international with Germany and a well known soccer player on the Premier league caused any conmotion. Probably the biggest ex athlete coming out was Ian Thorpe but there are obvious reasons for that, Thorpe is not a high profile swimmer, he is one of the greatest ever, and he was popular beyond the sport, and of course there are all his problems through the years well documented in the media.

Coming out once you are retired it's pretty safe

Former US player Brian Vahaly also came out publicly last year, but it didn't get that much attention

r313 r316 Yes and the companies and industry and TPTB in general wouldn't have a problem with that, and their commerical status, etc., I wanna sm... posters like that, also if they are paid ones.

Before you smack someone, perhaps you could write a coherent rant, R318?

I really liked seeing the embrace of Serena and Kerber. Very sweet and genuine.

[quote] A few years back some South American former player (whose highest ranking was like 300 or something) and it was covered by every gay and sports site as he was the first former pro to come out.

Does anyone know who this player was?

R321 Francisco Rodriguez

Here's a link to his story. There were many others at the time.

So where was MSM covering this? I recall nothing at all outside of gay-oriented media covering it.

Thanks, R322 and R323.

R324 is your google broken?

From the 2008 article at R323:

[quote] Which is one reason that eventually a professional male tennis player will likely come out. Courier says its a question of when, not if. Navratilova says it will happen before 2010.

2010.

Also from the article at R323:

[quote] As any mildly obsessive gay male fan knows, tantalizing rumors surround a hunky American player once ranked inside the top 20. He was very attractive, muscular, the epitome of a gay pinup. Everyone kind of knew he was gay from the way he talked -- he wasnt hiding it. I remember him in line for lunch with his boyfriend, one source says.

[quote] Another former number 1 American player was thought to play both sides of the net.

Is the one mentioned in the first paragraph Gambill? Who do you think the one in the second paragraph is?

Aussie doubles specialist Mark Woodforde pinged off the charts. He bearded up with a woman after Thomas Muster taunted him as a 'faggot' during a match.

Let me rephrase that for the willfully obtuse like R326: MSM media did not cover Rodriguez coming out at all. The only reference to it outside of gay-oriented media was in an article five years later when USA Today addressed the topic very generally and mentioned Rodriguez as the only male former ATP player to have come out.

That's according to Google--my inquiry to R323 was to substantiate it as covered by MSM at the time Rodriguez came out.

JMG was obvious from the time he noted Reba McEntire as his favorite singer in an ATP Q & A.

The former # 1 has got to be Courier.

More reason to dislike Muster, another likely Tour juicer...

R318: Are you really suggesting that coming out is so dangerous for a retiring athlete that he could lose his way of living? Sorry but that's scifi. In fact the trouble that it'll cause to an active tennis player has nothing to do with lose sponsors, at least not right now. And a retired one only could have some trouble if he works for an homophobic boss

I suppose Muster is very happy to not live in this era of tennis, with Nadal on tour he would be reduced to almost nothing. I remember him dominating clay season only to fail on Roland Garros year after year.

An active player coming out would likely be drowning in endorsements and sponsorship.

A retired player looking to work as a coach might find fewer people would want to work with them, maybe? With tennis being such a global sport there are a lot of people involved in the sport who come from countries that are still very conservative and working with an out gay person would be a big no.

R333: I suppose it depends if he is training men or women. If he is training men it could be a problem, if he is training women i don't think it'll be a problem at all. If we are talking about JMG, it seems everybody knowns he is gay (even when he was a player) so i doubt he'll get more problems to coach someone that he had before.

And of course a lot of retired athletes have different jobs and they are a way less dependant of other people. Every case is different

[quote]Federer will be 37 in a few weeks. What probably rankles him most is his lost last real chance to win a Slam.

What you say would make sense if Federer lost in the finals.

Federer loves to play the US Open. Anything can happen.

What you say would make sense if Federer had actually made more than one US Open final since 2010.

Courier always seemed to drop clues about being bi-sexual. Reading that Maupin book on a change over at a tourney was pretty obvious, lol. His fawning over handsome men while commentating was him tweaking the speculation. Sitting prominently in the stands with his Asian fiancee at the US Open just before he snagged the Davis Cup captaincy. Courier is marketable as an ex-player, he's extremely well spoken and good looking. I couldn't blame him for concealing part of his life to make a fortune.

Federer is still No. 2 in the world. Of course he has a shot at a US Open title.

He lost in the US Open QF to Del Porto last year, missed it in 2016 due to injury, and lost the final to Djokovic in 2015. In the last 12 months, he's played in 12 events, winning five (including the Australian Open), and reaching the finals of three more. Right now, he's probably 3rd best odds behind Nadal and Djokovic, or potentially better odds than Djokovic.

Unless there's a radical change (like in 2011 when Djokovic started to dominate) and the next gen took the lead (something difficult to believe right now) Federer has chances to win more GS. He is extremely fit, his game is not that physical. Of course he could low his level at any moment (and the same for Rafa), but he is very focused, he was able to come back after two bad years. Maybe next year he won't be favourite anymore, but that doesn't change the fact that he could win. There are people saying that Djokovic will dominate from now but i highly doubt it. He'll be a contender for sure, but i don't think he'll regain his dominance, specially because he is the one who lost more times against new players, so the intimidation factor is totally gone for him

Well he will be when the close the roof for Fed, or schedule him out of the heat of the day. I'm sure Gramps pays off someone at the BJK Nat Tennis Center to get what he wants.

I'll rephrase the prior post from "lost last real chance" to "lost last best chance" re Federer at this year's Wimbledon. Does he have a chance to win another Slam? Obviously. But since 2010 Wimbledon has been his likeliest Slam championship, then the Australian. His record at the US Open in the last decade has run a poor third: one final in 2015, a drought in finals all the way back to 2009, and last championship in 2008. Even with the men winning Slams in their 30s recently, 37 is ancient in tennis terms and even Federer will succumb to age eventually, which I think started at Wimbledon and begins the inevitable decline. We'll see.

Don’t forget Andy!

Don’t forget Andy!

I don't know this as a fact but I think Capriati had winning records against both Conchita and ASV.

How did Bettina Bunge do against Capriati and Seles and Aranxtha and Graf? About as well as Silvia Hanika and Barbara Potter? I know Joanne Russel was undefeated against Graf and Everet, but not sure if that was in this dimension or not.

[quote]What you say would make sense if Federer had actually made more than one US Open final since 2010.

What you say would make sense if Federer didn't have a resurgence in 2017.

Graf, Seles and Capritai should have dominated women's tennis for a decade but sad fate made it not possible. It's the way it goes. Only Graf took advantage.

R47. And Hinigis would have maybe one slam. She took advantage too.

R346, what you say would make sense if Federer's "resurgence" hadn't completely lost its momentum after he flopped out in his first match at Miami, skipped the clay events and the French once again for the third year in a row because he's too old and decrepit to endure the rigors of the clay season, lost to Coric at Halle, then compounded that with his worst Wimbledon since 2013.

R348: No, Hingis was a very talented player. Probably if she was made to work harder to get a GS or number one she probably would have a way better career than she finally had. If Graf wasn't injured and Seles in such bad form, Martina's road to number one would be longer and harder, but at the end she would be fitter and mentally stronger (and probably a less annoying brat)

Janet Newberry never lost a match to ASV or Conchita.

Those h2h are only relevant if there's enough amont of matches. Dustin Brown never lost against Rafa Nadal, but they only played two matches both on grass

Russell never defeated Evert, though she gave her a tough match or two. I don't think Russell overlapped with Graf. Today, Russell appears happy and is an avid pickleball player and I think champion. Good for her. Poor Rosie, Wendy, and others simply got heavy and inactive.

Janet had that great upset win over Navratilova at the Open and a miserable 1975 loss to Virginia Wade in which Janet had match points.

Hingis, Capriati, Spirlea, Sharapova, Bouchard, S. Williams...who else has gained a place in the WTA Hall of Ignominious Infamy?

R347, "sad fate" is certainly far more applicable to Seles than Capriati, i.e. being stabbed in the back vs. partying one's way out of contention.