Whitney Houston Documentary

[quote]which has been discussed here already

The worst was/is that horrid sister-in-law of hers - Pat Houston - that, I believe, STILL runs her estate, business, etc.

R2, I don't know, her mother sounds pretty horrible too. The fact that she was molested and felt like she couldn't tell her mother, it's sad but makes sense.

They're all horrible. I want to see this documentary because I love Whitney and her music but this movie will give that bitch Pat Houston more money.

Clive was just as bad as them. All leeches.

Her mother deserves the Queen Bitch award. Even now it’s “I don’t believe it’s true” about molestation stated by other family. And she says she wouldn’t accept a gay child - in 2018. After her closeted daughter has died. Cissy is despicable and probably deserves more blame than Bobby Brown for her misery and death.

Saw it the other night. Pretty well done. Heartbreaking. Saw many parallels between this doc and the one about Amy Winehouse (i.e., the people closest to them doing them the most harm and staying close for the access to money and nothing else). I appreciated seeing clips of Whitney singing from earlier in her life. The interviews with her brothers and other family members were revealing - and disturbing. The film didn’t shy away from Whitney’s relationship with Robyn Crawford, but I read that she (Robyn) declined to be interviewed by the filmmaker so there are limits to what we can learn about that. I think it’s worth seeing.

R6, did it also include her clip about Paula Abdul?

Paula, yes. And Janet.

R8, what did she say about Janet? I always though Janet and Whitney respected each other by default, since Michael Jackson and Whitney always complimented each other (I think).

It was a brief but cutting remark. I don’t remember the words now, just the tone of it. Go see it. It’s in the theater now.

I saw it, but felt bad for Bobby Christina. She did not stand a chance with Whitney and Bobby as her parents. They even say so-duh-in the movie,

Whitney did not like Janet or Paula but did like Madonna and Mariah. She had respect for them and it was mutual.

I didn't like Whitney's music but her voice was golden. Her mother is despicable beyond belief and I am with those who blame her the most. She is not a nice woman.

This is such a common, sad story. Grifters and hangers on enabling drug addiction, mental illness and bad behavior....all to keep the gravy train running.

Michael Jackson, Elvis, LiLo, Britany, Lisa Marie Presley and now Johnny Depp.

Her mom said something like "Let that bitch Janet do her thing. You can sing. You have class. You don't need all that"

About Paula- Whitney said she ain't nothing she even sings off-key on her records.

Yes, Whitney did shade a lot of her competition (Clive Davis led smear campaigns against them mainly Madonna) but Madonna and Mariah were two of the females Whitney said a lot of positive things about. Didn't she even jam out to M's Superbowl performance cheering her on? Didn't Madonna's brother Christopher say after Whitney lost her baby, Madonna set her a note and gifts and it really touched Whitney. They both gifted each other baby gifts after Bobby Christina and Lourdes were born.

R14, yup, Madonna and Whitney both respected each other.

The mother Cissy claims Whitney wasn’t sexually abused. Why do people go through such ridiculous lengths to go through denial?

And Clive was ruthless on Madonna. She never held it against Whitney. Clive was bad about spreading a narrative about other female singers who were Whitney's competition.

Ugh Cissy Houston is evil. Pure evil.

I can actuallysee Whitney & Madonna being cool with each other. They were a lot alike in many ways.

R17, what did Clive do/say about Madonna? I never heard anything about that.

R19 I saw it in some documentary or news report. I don't wanna misspeak so I can't say exactly what it was. I believe he was behind a lot of the negative narrative Madonna was saddled with early on. Not sure exactly what he contributed. With Janet, it was a narrative of nepotism. That I do remember. But he was way more aggressive on Madonna because she was the top female. The doc will come to me. It wasn't about him per say but SHIT what the hell was it???? LOL

I never can watch these documentaries about stars who died young and feel very much pity for them for their early deaths: Whitney, Elvis, Marilyn Monroe, Amy Winehouse. My only feeling is, "Well, people used you, but you fucked up your own life regardless."

Cissy is calling her own son a liar in regards to the sexual abuse.

R20, that's facinating. I know that Tommy Motolla remarked that he wanted to make Mariah bigger than Madonna or Whitney but I don't remember him ever slandering the other two. I'm surprised Clive didn't go after Mariah.

Tommy bought a lot of #1's for Mariah but it didn't stop Madonna or Whitney. Madonna temporarily stopped herself with the Sex book backlash and Whitney, well, stopped herself with drugs and such. Madonna roared back but Whitney didn't. Then Mariah imploded.

Clive didn't feel Mariah was a true threat, especially internationally from what I have heard. Whitney and especially Madonna crushed it internationally. By the time Clive would have seen Mariah as a threat, Whitney was in steep decline.

Yep, old Cissy doesn't believe her own son. So you know Whitney couldn't rely on that bitch.

I wish she would have reached out to Madonna or another peer. But lets face it, Whitney was in denial and no one around her, except maybe Robin, was going to stop her.

R24, it's true that out of the three you mentioned, Madonna was the top one in terms of international sales and appeal. Whitney did obviously top her during the Bodyguard era which is still the largest selling album by a female artist, ever.

R26 Doesn't Shania own that record? Or Alanis?

R26 In the end, Madonna was the top female in the USA and World. Madonna was always Whitney's main competition and it is nice they had a cordial relationship.

R27, technically Shania does, but that's only because some people don't consider the bodyguard soundtrack just attributable to Whitney, but to multiple artists. But we all know the truth. I doubt any of the 40 something millon who purchased the album around the world were buying the album for Lisa Stansfield. It was all about Whitney.

R29 I mean I still think Shania has it beat either way. Everything I've googled still has Shania beating the Bodyguard soundtrack.

R30, that's probably due to innacurate data. Lots of albums have globally inflated sales on wikipedia and the like. Globally, The Bodyguard Soundtrack has outsold Come on Over by a lot--almost 8 million.

None of the articles I read were wiki. And your link didn't work.

Shania is a cunt.

R32, regardless, a lot of sites out there push inflated data with nothing to back it up. This site has done a lot of research into the actual sales of albums/artists. Regardless, click on the link here and under useful links on the right side, go to "top selling albums-pure". It is in the top 5 albums of all time.

Sorry for saying regardless twice.

R34 Thank you. I see on this site, TBG is above COO. Though I do wonder about inflated numbers, you did provide a valid site so I have no reason to doubt it. Though it does not include compilations/Greatest Hits.

R36, yeah, that's my only problem with the site. It would makes sense for the creator to include greatest hits in the album sales--pure section. The Immaculate collection sold 28 million so it would be very high up on the list, in the top 30 for sure.

I think IC sold over 30 million for sure. Madonna had a bad habit of cannibalizing her sales. For instance, had True Blue not come out when it did, LAV would have sold so much more. And she should have tacked on Into The Groove to the album. The IC cannibalized LAP, TB and LAV's sales as they were selling really well still.

That site looks legit. Thriller definitely has inflated sales.

R38, The IC is at slightly over 28 million which is VERY impressive--that's more than any Mariah album. It's interesting you bring up Madonna cannibalizing her sales. According to the website creator, it was actually The Immaculate Collection that prevented Like a Virgin, True Blue and Like a Prayer from being recertified after 1990. Prior to the release of The Immaculate Collection, Like a Virgin and True Blue continued to sell strongly. And The Immaculate Collection originally went 6x platinum in America and now has sold almost 12 million in America.

R39 Correct! She should have waited a few more years but it's not like it hurt her as she still sold more than any female overall.

What do you think about Thriller's numbers? They are always all over the place and totally loony sometimes. *sorry to hijack the Whitney thread*

Cissy is to blame. Cissy Houston should be in jail.

It still astonishes me that Madonna, Michael Jackson, Prince, George Michael and Whitney Houston were the biggest music stars of the '80s, and all of them are gone except Madonna.

The 80's had all the greats!

R39 Also Warner Bros sucks. They never treat their musical artist right and are terrible at recertifying their albums. I mean, they drove Prince bonkers and even Madonna eventually left them.

R40, oh yeah, Thriller's numbers are DEFINITELY inflated. Some have said it sold 100 million copies globally. There is no proof of that. It's still the biggest selling album of all time though.

R41, it's even funnier to think that the 80s produced all those stars. Wasn't the 80s considered a joke after it was over? And wasn't it known as the decade of the one-hit wonder? Well, turns out although there is truth to those comments, it isn't the whole truth. The 80s definitely produced more music stars than the 90s, which is blown out of proportion.

[R24] Tommy destroyed George Michael's career by not pushing LWP. He choose to put a lot of promotion behind his new artists. George had his part in this as well, however once George lost the case Tommy/Sony but their foot on his neck and saw that George was blackball from radio play in the United States.

R45, Michael Jackson also called Mottola the devil.

R44 Actually, the 80's were highly regarded for the music. It was definitely the decade of the one hit wonder but that made it great as well. You had all these Titans come out of that decade. I mean, that list is astounding. The decade started out kinda of meh but by 83 on, the music was incredible and very varied (haha). The variety alone was something to behold. It was a very competitive decade which is even more surprising it created so many of the most successful legends of all time.

R45 yes, tragic! At least Warners didn't have someone like Tommy but it had just a bunch of assholes who didn't treat their artists right. Tommy then bought Mariah and bought her a bunch of #1's.

R47, interesting. As someone who grew up in the 90s, it always seemed like the 80s were made fun of all the time, particularly the clothing and the music. It wasn't until the 00s that I think the attitude towards the 80s changed. I do love 80s music, but that's what I've always gotten.

Also, although I really am a fan of Mariah's older material, I do wonder how many of her number ones were actually due to airplay instead of sales. During the 90s, the Billboard singles charts changed a lot, and they became much more skewed towards airplay. So a song could be played nonstop and top the charts even if it didn't sell as much as the number two or three singles.

More and more I'm thinking Whitney abused drugs because she was deeply closeted and tormented due to her religious upbringing. What a beautiful voice, and she was also very naturally beautiful bald head and all.

[quote]I doubt any of the 40 something million who purchased the album around the world were buying the album for Lisa Stansfield. It was all about Whitney.

Bitch Please.

I barely turned over my cassette to hear side two of The Bodyguard. I did like the Soul System song but literally, side 2/second half was a party killer.

R50, I do think their cover song is better than the original.

R48- I grew up in the 90's as well. The 80's were made fun of but only for that 80's techno sound that annoyed everyone. Of course, most music in the 80's did not sound like that but it was one thing made fun of and I guess some took it as if they were talking the whole decade. I always knew growing up the 80's had badass music. I never knew anyone who thought differently. There were some cringeworthy musical trends that got made fun of, though.

The hair and makeup and dress were definitely made fun of! haha

R51, exactly--nobody was buying the album for anyone else's songs but Whitney's.

As much as I dislike Clive Davis, it was genius that he had Whitney record six songs and then just fill the rest of the album with mostly filler and they reaped the benefits.

R55, I do wish Clive had allowed Whitney to go in the dance-music direction she wanted to go in. According to the chick who was in that band Dee Lite, that's what she really wanted. Based on her I'm Every Woman cover, I think dance music would have suited her very well. The material Clive gave her was such bland crap, aside from a few songs.

R48 Re Mariah. Yes, he bought a lot of airplay but she also deeply discounted her singles. There were so many shenanigans he did for her. She legit had some good music early on, she benefited greatly from his power.

R56 YES. She should have gone in that direction for sure. He controlled her and I guess she felt he got her where she was so she wasn't going to push back. Sadly.

I think I know what the poster was saying about Clive and Madonna. He was brutal with her. He planted bad articles, got people to write negative articles questioning everything about her. I thought this was well known. He never really tried to hide it. Not even Tommy tried to go after Madonna like that.

R57 And Warner Bros never defended her. They just let it ride and take root. It's a wonder it didn't destroy her career. Warners was fucking evil. And yes, they made Prince go bonkers. They didn't give a shit!

R57, good poins regarding Mottola and Mariah. I wonder if any artist before Mariah deeply discounted their singles like hers were? I never heard anything about Clive doing anything to Madonna but what you are saying makes total sense. He doesn't seem like the kindest person. I wonder how much negative articles published about her are due to Clive? Regardless of whether one hates Madonna or not, it took real class on her part not to ever lash out. Good for her.

r56 yes, I agree. The thing is, as much as I like Whitney's ballads, I think her dance songs - How Will I Know, So Emotional, I'm Every Woman, It's Not Right But It's Okay - have all aged better than most of her ballads.

The remixes of her My Love is Your Love singles were incredible. The opening beats of the Thunderpuss mix of It's Not Right still makes the gays lose their shit.

R60, yes! All great remixes. Her cover of I'm Every Woman is as good as the original (although it sounds like a different song).

Here is an article that mentions Clive and Madonna. It doesn't show him being rude to her, actually, he says that Madonna told him Whitney didn't have to write songs with her voice.

R61 Well, he waited until Whitney died to say something positive. LOL.

R59 Madonna knew how cut-throat the business was. She went in wide eyed about how ugly it was. I'm sure none of it surprised her. She likely lashed out at WB. I'm glad her and Whitney were good with each other despite Clive's bullshit.

R61 Nevermind. I read the article just now. That Clive. He basically cornered Madonna, was praising Whitney and going on about how great she was, saying she was ruling the world. That was very nice what Madonna said. But Clive couldn't say anything nice about Madonna even then other than "she wrote her songs" and implied the quality was so high that if Whitney tried to write and it wasn't up to Madonna level standards, it was risky. But he never actually said those words. He implied it. What an ASS. Again, I give Madonna so much credit for saying the nice thing she did about Whitney to him. And it is telling that is the first time they met.

I think Madonna was in awe of Whitney's voice, like we all were. I also think Madonna knew that she and Whitney were very different artists that they were really no threat to each other.

I remember an article from the mid or late '90s where Madonna moaned about WB and how she had made them so much money with her albums and her Maverick label and they still were difficult to deal with.

And r62 is right about Madonna. I think one of the reasons why Madonna has lasted longer than her contemporaries is that she became successful as she was approaching her mid-20s and she already had some life experience, whereas Whitney and MJ had been raised in the business and George and Prince both released their first albums barely out of their teens. I also think Madonna really wanted fame and because she knew that it was a tough business, she probably had better coping skills.

Re R64

-- also Madonna has no addiction issues (that we know of).

Botox and fillers R65.

R64 I found this thread just in time!

I am a bit of a Prince fanatic and both he and Madonna went through a similar track in the 80's due to WB's fuckery.

The Clive stuff about Madonna was her voice. He knew that what set Whitney apart from everyone was her voice. Clive sought to bring down Madonna by trashing her voice. Say what you will about Madonna's voice, she can sing and has a nice voice. But she was untrained and refused to go through proper training. Her former manager had said she had a good voice but needed training because she had no control. As a result, she was all over the place live. While most thought she could sing and sing well at times, her uneven performances played into the narrative, as you said, about her voice. It stuck. Clive knew what he was doing. It was unfair and led to people hypercriticizing Madonna's voice even when she would prove over and over again she could sing. Whitney never criticized Madonna's voice like she did Paula or Janet.

But like you said, Madonna and her were different artist known for different things. The threat was dominance. Both had the chops to dominate and that was the threat. I think they respected each other so the competition between them was friendly. I think they pushed each other especially if you go by the Clive quote when speaking to Madonna.

R66 Now now, Nippy got breast implants. They all fuck with their features.

R67 It wasn't just the voice but yes, that was a big part. Rumor was he was behind the nude pix coming out. I don't believe it because Whitney hadn't hit yet but Madonna was a phenom at the time so who knows.

Clive needs to shut his ass up. He could have saved Whitney but that feckless ass did nothing.

r68 I think Whitney got the implants for Bobby. It's very sad because it always seemed she was trying to please people in her life, mostly men (Clive, Bobby, her father) in addition to her mother.

It's quite touching to think the one person who love her unconditionally and did not sell her out - Robyn Crawford - STILL refuses to talk about Whitney. It's been six years since Whitney died and she has not said anything. I cannot lie - I would love to hear what she has to say about Whitney. I think she would probably have a lot more insight into Whitney than anyone else.

I always got the sense that Whitney never really wanted fame or, as time went on, she wanted to lead a more normal life. I don't think she had that hunger for fame like Madonna did. She had someone like Clive to help her but it seemed he wanted it more than she did. Whitney loved to sing, but I sense she would have been just as happy singing in church. I've always wondered how much Whitney really wanted it vs. her mother and Clive pushing her.

R67, that sounds like something Clive would do. You're right, the narrative that Madonna is untalented is unfair. She has always been at least a decent singer. After her training her voice for Evita, it turned into a good one.

R70 yes tragic all around but I think Whitney wanted the fame badly. She loved it.

R67 yes, brought to you by Clive. Again, Madonna knew the business was unforgiving and brutal. She went through hard knocks in NYC so nothing surprised her. She didn't deserve Clive to go after her talent, though. I think for many, it shocks them. I do think Madonna had better coping skills and it is also why she is a very closed off person. She knows the sharks in the entertainment world are evil. I think all her peers dying has really hit her hard. She knows the industry and they hurt them.

R72, I hope one day, the lid comes off of all the stuff that Whitney, George Michael, Prince, Madonna and Michael had to endure in the industry. It must have been rough, to say the least.

R70 Well, Clive and Cissy are horrible people. They watched her suffer and self destruct but I'm sure Cissy thought it better than being a lesbian. Better off dead than a lesbian, right Cissy? Bitch!

R71 I also agree. She didn't deserve him going after her talent. I totally believe he got those nude pics out.

R73 My money is on Madonna spilling the tea one day but she doesn't know everything that happened to them specifically. She probably does know a lot about what happened to them but she would have to be careful with libel laws and stuff. But I can see her in her really old age spilling tea on this like crazy. She's ballsy enough.

By entertainment industry, I mean the sharks who run it not the stars. They are abused beyond belief. As evidenced by how many of them are fucked up and dead.

Seymour Stein, who signed Madonna, recently gave an interview about how they rested control from WB. He has a book coming out and it will have more tea about that. This article is a great read.

I also think early in her career, Madonna had decent people looking after her. Liz Rosenberg and Freddy DeMann were tough cookies but I think they genuinely cared about her well being. I mean, obviously, they cared because Madonna made them money but Madonna was smart enough to hire people who were not sleazy (however, I don't like Guy Oseary and think he has been a detriment to her career).

R75, I really hope what you say happens. The entertainment industry is disgusting. The parents who put their kids in the industry just make me scratch my head.

R76, you're right about Guy. Ever since he took control, Madonna just isn't the same Madonna.

R76 Yes and she would never allow a svengali to control her. THAT is so important. But Prince never had one either. I think WB fucked with his head so much he was never the same after.

Patrick Leonard, long time Madonna collaborator, had a nice story about how WB told Madonna that releasing Live To Tell would flop and ruin her career and that if she did, they would provide no support for True Blue. Madonna said if it was a hit, she got control over everything (she already had a lot). They laughed and said deal. Well, that blew up in their face.

Who was it that started the rumor about Donna Summer saying AIDS was Gods punishment for being gay? Was it Clive?

r79 apparently it was David Geffen. They had a difficult relationship when she joined Geffen.

R76 I believe she has said as much. She didn't want yes men/women around her. She wanted those who would look out for her. She did hire the best. I mean, Clive was one of the best just turned out he was a horrible person who was good at certain parts of his job. Same with Tommy.

R75, that's a fantastic article. Thank you for sharing.

R80 DAMN. That sounds like Clive but that is what went on in the industry. Brutal!

R75, especially liked this quote from the article:

"I’d break out in a rash whenever I heard this nasty myth about how Madonna somehow screwed her way to the top. I could see she was the real deal. I certainly didn’t know then just how big she would be, but I did believe with all my heart she would be really big. I defy anyone to screw their way to number one and stay there for well over three decades. It can’t be done. But please, be my guest — have fun trying!"

R84 He gave another interview- I'll find it tomorrow- where he talks about them breaking WB the first time and they got her control over her career. I didn't know he was gay!

R77 Wasn't Guy O good for Madonna initially? She did have a huge resurgence from 96-09 under him management. He needs to go now, though.

Should Whitney have dumped Clive? I think she despised him in the end but needed him.

R86, he only became her manager in 2005. If she had a better manager, you would hope he would tell her to stop posting so much of crap on instragram.

R86, regarding Clive, yeah, I wish she dumped him after The Bodyguard era. She had enough power at that time to break out on her own (I think). It would have been the perfect time for her to experiment more with dance music. At least she got to release her one and only consisten music by the end of the 90s (My Love is Your Love).

even better than the one you know....

There are plenty of moments in the doc that get you upset (her brother Gary’s blatant homophobia toward Robyn comes to mind) but when LA Reid says, with a startled face, that he “NEVER knew (!!!)” about Whitney’s addiction, well that just about had me shouting “bitch please” at the screen. I lived in the goddamn suburbs of Chicago and I knew!!!! Really LA????? But interesting side note- he looks so handsome in this interview. I want his trainer, nutrionist, hormone supplier...

[quote]I think dance music would have suited her very well. The material Clive gave her was such bland crap

The ballads were better live than on the album. She really knew how to sing a ballad, amazing interpretive skills as a singer. You could put her up on a stage with a band behind her and she transfixed and mesmerized audiences.

Re Clive going after Madonna. Yes, it was that bad. He pushed paid for articles to question her talent in every way. Dirty tricks common in the industry but he went too far and no, she did not deserve that. I personally believe Whitney told him to knock it off eventually but he didn't stop until the mid-90's. R87- Guy was her manager starting in 95 so he was initially very good for her. He's been shit since 2013.

I liked some of Whitney's ballads but I do feel she should have gone the dance route. She seemed to have more fun, be more relaxed. She wasn't allowed to do what she wanted. Clive micromanaged her- to death, literally. He's scum.

And this shit goes on today. Stan wars are started, in large part, by various camps getting their people to stir up their base for *insert whatever singer* to form tribalism. Exactly what is going on with politics. Not saying we should like all singers or not be critical of them but I don't participate in the stan wars.

Clive Davis needs his own thread.

R93 Yes he does!

I think Clive Davis received a lot of criticism after Whitney's untimely death.

Ultimately it was her family and her misguided religious faith that did her in. She truly believed that god or Jesus would free her of drugs if only she prayed hard enough. For someone who had it all to make bad decision after bad decision after bad decision, I guess it's hard to be around somebody like that. Maybe that's why Robyn left.

Whitney shaded Madonna but good here......

"Recently I went to hear Barbra sing. She's one lady I would have died to see and she performs so seldom, that when I got the chance I grabbed it. She was more than I expected...just to see her! I admire her for lasting so long. It's the sort of career I want for myself. I don't want to be Madonna, who will burn herself out. I'd like to perform for decades to come. Also, like Barbra, I'd like to do films."

Whitney - 1988

R96 doesn't understand what shade is.

nope r42, the 60's did.

Oh, it wasn't shade? Maybe it was HONESTY.

If she didn't have her hateful homophobic family, husband and Clive around her neck, Whitney would have aged beautifully, singing gorgeously into her 60s and 70s and beyond.

Madonna would have still burnt herself out.

When did Madonna's non singing ass burn herself out?

Whitney's comment is sad in its utter lack of self awareness. I'll never forget that TV appearance where she began to recount with giddy enthusiasm how she would roll crack laced blunts. Burnt out, indeed.

Whitney had the talent Madonna never had. Madonna had the toughness Whitney never had.

I'd like to hear from other alleged victims of Dee Dee. Would she have stopped at Gary and Whitney? I doubt it.

Quite frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if Pat and Gary concocted the abuse to sell the movie. The assistant is apparently in their camp.

Comparing someone who "performs so seldom" to Madonna burning herself out is not insulting Madonna. It's a comment on her work ethic and that she spearheaded those behemoth world tours. And we know this because Whitney often complimented Madonna's drive. Whitney wanted to be a more relaxed Barbra-style performer, who pops up when she feels like it and can still draw a crowd. If Whitney had mentioned Springsteen and his 3+ hour shows instead of Madonna, there'd be no doubt the intention behind her remark.

And sadly Whitney was wrong. Madonna hasn't burned out because she thrives on that kind of drive. And Whitney burned out because burnout isn't about how much she worked herself onstage, it was about what was happening off.

R103, great points. And yes, SOMEONE NEEDS TO CREATE A THREAD ON CLIVE DAVIS.

[quote]In the end, Madonna was the top female in the USA and World. Madonna was always Whitney's main competition and it is nice they had a cordial relationship.

Ah, no...that would go to Janet, she had tons of hit songs.

Janet didn't become a factor worldwide until the Janet album and she was done by, what, 2001?

Then how come Janet was nominated to the Hall of Fame twice. While Whitney never received the honor. You guys will not disrespect Ms. Jackson name after the mad support she have given to the gay community.

AND HERE WE GO. THE DL CANCER HAS BEEN SUMMONED!!

How did this thread turn into a Madonna/Janet bot fest?

Can we get back to discussing the movie?

Ize gettin real tired of Robyn refusing to discuss Whitney. The closet obviously killed and she could shine the light. Strikes me as a selfish person which is maybe the reason why Whitney dumped her ass.

R96 That wasn't shade at all. Not even close.

Madonna and Whitney have/had huge talents. To say otherwise about either is idiotic.

I'm ignoring the Janet bot as both Madonna and Whitney did.

This thread wasn't about stanning for anyone. It was about Whitney's death and what caused it. Clive is one of them. It was brought up how Clive operated and rightly Madonna was brought in to the convo because she was his main target. And other posters pointed out how Whit and Madonna respected each other and were cordial despite this.

Yes, Clive needs a thread. As does Cissy.

Here is Seymour Stein. He can't think of an artist smarter than Madonna was.

Madgebot and Janbot need one thread to just go back and forth over who is the most relevant today. No one else cares. Bots are tiresome and bots ruin threads.

Back to the movie. Does it show any clips of the Soul Train awards booing? Is it true that Kevin Costner had her study Linda Ronstadt's version of I will Always Love You before recording it?

Is Cissy actually interviewed? Bobby Brown?

R113 Fuck off dude. No one was stanning for Madonna. The only stanning was the Janbot. MANY posters were making valid claims about Clive that related to Madonna and Whitney. Then it was brought up how Whitney shaded Janet and Paula but has said many nice things about Madonna and Mariah. Just because most posters didn't spew hate at Madonna like you obviously wanted doesn't mean you should get butthurt.

Fact: Whitneys mother and father were in a beard marriage. Cissy is brainwashed church folk. She is a self hating monster who strangled her daughter. Whitney was here for the lesbians. She didn't get a chance to mature and evolve. What a poor baby. So young to be shoved onto the stage and into a closet/coffin. I'm sure she meant the best for her daughter Bobbi Christina. That mother and daughter tragedy. Whitney didn't get care and guidance herself. Then self medicated.

Imagine what could have been if Whitney had been able to get sober and sane.

I'm no Whitney Stan. Just my two cents. She had a beautiful voice and was believable in her movies.

Cissy can go to hell.

I wonder why Clive never tried to make another Whitney when it became apparent she was a junkie. I guess he did somewhat with Alicia Keys, but she's much more than a vocalist, a singer songwriter.

r115, Whitney's dad was gay?

One thing Madonna couldn't do which came natural to Whitney, and what was act.

R118 Are you on crack? Whitney was never lauded for her acting. She was pretty wooden. Why try to compare? But if you want to, Madonna has actually won a GG for Best Actress sooooooo...........

She may have not been critically acclaim lauded, but she gave solid performances and reviews were good. She disappeared in roles unlike most popstars who try the big screen.

Yeah! What R119 said!

Oh Gawd, the Whitney stan is now gonna try to demean Madonna to big up Whitney. Clive, is that you R118?

Probably is Clive.

Clive, R120, no she didn't. Her and Madonna, at times, received decent reviews. But Whitney was not a good actress, either was Madonna but Madonna was stellar in Evita and won Best Actress. Did Nippy? No so stop the madness.

Nippy and Madonna had a good relationship. Lets not start this shit.

r122, I'm just saying. It is what is. Madonna was only good in one film, and that is Desperately Seeking because she was basically playing herself. We all know the GGs give out awards like candy.

R123 Bwhahaha if you say so, Dorothy!

And Whitney wasn't playing herself in TBG? Oh nevermind, you are obviously smoking crack and trying to derail this thread.

Tootles, Dorothy!

r124, Thanks for the good laugh.

It’s silly to keep blaming Cissy Houston, simply because you’re offended by her homophobia. The woman is an 80 yr old Evangelical Christian. How many members of the Silent Generation would have been proud to raise a gay child, knowing the hardship that child would face. Hell baby boomers were equally as homophobic throughout the 1970 and into the 90s. I don’t know why we have to pretend that attitudes about sexual orientation have not come a very long way in a very short time. And we still live in a very homophobic culture. Kids are still bullied etc. So pretending that most parents born in the 1930s, raising children in the 1960s - 1980s, were accepting and gay friendly is just a load of bullshit.

And this idea than anyone, other than the addict themself, can make an addict quit. That’s also bullshit.

Cissy had no problem getting a paycheck from gay men like Luther Vandross, Paul Jabara. Her audience was predominately composed of gay men as well at one point. That was from Whitney herself. Religious folk did not make Think it over her biggest hit single..

Furthermore, her remarks to Oprah weren't that she was afraid of what Whitney would endure being a lesbian. It was that it would have bothered her if Whitney was gay. Point blank. No other discussion needed. And it doesn't matter what attitudes were like back then. It's just as hypocritical back then as it is now from a woman who predominately made a career out of singing with gay men to condone something that she had no problem with when it came to advancing her own career And given Oprah's surprised, taken aback reaction to Cissy's blunt response, she was clearly thinking the same thing too.

Homophobia is one thing, but homophobia by convenience is another.

Cissy has proven that she is beyond redemption. She is sick and twisted. She would rather Whitney dead than lesbian.

I have no fucks to give for Cissy!! She’s gonna die a lonely old crone like she deserves!

r110: I think Robyn isn't selfish at all. The fact that she has been private tells me that she and Whitney had a very special, deep love and feels no need to 'illuminate' the public about it.

R131, exactly. Why should Robyn reveal anything?

I saw the Whitney documentary, but isn't there a new one coming out too? You want to see some shit that will shock you and make you angry and sad, watch the Amy Winehouse documentary. What a terrible horrific family she had.

Robyn did release this statement after Whitney's death. It's beautiful in what it does say and in all she holds back. She did something that never happens anymore: Kept the memories of her beloved friend and girlfriend private. Not closeted, but personal. When you tell everything, other people take it away from you and make into something else.

Robyn loved Whitney for herself alone.

This is all fascinating to me. My neighbor was one of the contributors to the documentary. I was talking about it today with her. She was one of Whitney's personal assistants for 25 years. I remember her traveling a lot with her when Whitney was alive. They were very good friends. She says she's one of the commentators in the film although I haven't seen it yet. Lynn Volkeman. I remember when Whitney died. She was one of the people in charge of dispersing tickets to family and friends for the funeral. I just remember the night before she has people over and hearing them play Whitney's songs and hearing them sing through the apartment walls. It was very surreal. I was a huge fan of Whitney's so it was an interesting experience to be in such close proximity to people who actually really knew her. Funny enough her WiFi pops us as an option whenever I go online - NippyLynn.

r134 yes, Robyn's statement was truly heartfelt. I didn't care for the documentary "Can I Be Me?" but the scene where Robyn is watching Whitney perform onstage is so beautiful and touching. Robyn knows EVERY word Whitney is singing and repeats them. It's one of those rare instances where the camera captures someone deep in love.

r116 Clive did try to recapture the Whitney magic with Deborah Cox. He hyped her up but, as much as I like Deborah, she is no Whitney. Her voice is much coarser and deeper and she just doesn't have the range Whitney did. She even did a duet with Whitney ("Same Script, Different Cast") and now she tours in touring productions of The Bodyguard and recorded an album of Whitney covers.

R136 Ugh! Just no.

Clive is vile. Vile Vile Vile. Tommy looks a saint next to him.

It is somehow understandable (not excusable) that somebody like Cissy would have a problem with her daughter being gay. That she repeatedly said that "I made her", to me was way more devastating. If your own mother denies you have a talent that only belongs to yourself and makes you feel you would be nothing without her, to me that is incredibly cruel. She said this in the previous docu, 'Can I Be Me' as well - "She learned well, because that's what I taught her".

Whitney never had a chance with a mother like that and she made the mistake to hang out with crazy churchies like Kim Burell in her last years. She never understood that the biggest problem in her life was her family and hypocritical church folks. I can understand Robyn wanted to get away from it all and start her own life.

The chances of Clive (or anyone else) finding another Whitney was slim to none. Whitney was like something out of a perfect singer factory--that face, that body, that VOICE, that pedigree, and then when she spoke she seemed so naturally elegant and charismatic. It was too good to be real (and we later discovered in fact she was struggling under that perfect facade). That kind of package was 1 in a million.

For about a minute we thought we had it again with Mariah, but even in the beginning Mariah came with that hint of trashy that kept her from being seen in that same 1 in a million way.

OK. I'm confused. I watched a documentary on Showtime about Whitney and it talked about her relationship with Robyn and showed Cissy and her family in an unflattering light. The doc went easier on Bobby Brown than I wanted them to. But it was a well done documentary. Now I know there is another one coming out or is it already out, a new one which ehr family allegedly supported. Which is which? Are we talking about the newer one?

Whitney: Can I Be Me first aired on Showtime months ago and was made without the support of the Houston family. Whitney is a new just-released documentary in theaters that was made with the full support of the Houston family.

r134: That was truly beautiful and heartfelt. . But I can't but help read through the lines:

"She had to put on her gear. She knew it was going to be a job and that's how she treated it. Once she committed to something, she finished it. Not long after I met her, she said, "Stick with me, and I'll take you around the world." She always knew where she was headed."

She had to put on her gear = In order to succeed, she had to be in the closet. Sad but true.

R139, I actually think Mariah seemed very classy until she divorced Mottola. After that, she seemed totally different. I think Mottola kept her personality closed off from the public. This is why she didn't seem to have much of a personality during those early years. But this worked in her favor.

Mariah sure was cute at the beginning but she was never "classy." A blazer and jeans did look good on her but she couldn't wait to get into a slutty dress. She was 5 years younger than Whitney and Mariah always came across as youthful, but she was more Long Island Lolita than the disney diva they tried to present her as.

r143, I don't know why people say Mariah is trashy. She is just low rent. The girl was homeless at one time. She's comes from a dysfunctional family on the island. Theres nothing trashy about her. She's just bubbly, fun, yet cooky personality.

R145, doesn't low rent imply trashy? Like Showgirls being a low rent version of All About Eve? And I've never heard Mariah was homeless--I believe that was her sister who is a drug addict hooker.

Mariah was nothing, lucky she had Mottola to prop her up. Compared to Whitney and Madonna, Mariah was RC Cola to their top shelf brand. I am shocked Whitney hasn't been even nominated to the R&R Hall of Fame. I'm not shocked Mariah hasn't. She will never be nominated or get in. Whitney may, eventually. Rock critics generally didn't have much respect for Whitney aside from her voice and had no respect for Mariah.

R145, I'm not saying she's trashy because of her poor/dysfunctional background. In fact the wealthier she got, the trashier she got. She's tacky with poor taste. She makes expensive shit look cheap.

I'll tel youl one thing. Mariah was smart to connect with the hip-hop audience as she did. That's why she still was able to be successful throughout the mid 2000s. I think even without the drug addiction Whitney would have been viewed as dated. A sort of black Celine Dione. I agree mariah will likely never be inducted in the R&R Hall however unless she dies young like Nippy.

Mariah absolutely knows how to put together a great song. Seriously, how many people can boast that they've *written* a Christmas classic?

R150 I don't for one minute think she has serious input into her songwriting. I mean, none of her songs are really lyrically much above 8th grade poetry but she has never ever uttered anything intelligent. She is dim as they get and now she's a Christmas act, a shameless Christmas act. I'm embarrassed for her. She can't fill small venues even with her #1's and album sales. Like she struggles to get 2,000-4,000 people to attend her tours in most places.

R147, completely disagree. Mariah was like a combo of Madonna and Whitney. She produced, wrote her lyrics and eventually had a lot of control of what she was doing, just like Madonna. But she had a voice that was in some ways, better than Whitney's. Whitney had more power, but at Mariah's peak (1990-1996), her voice was more distinctive and she could reach higher notes. Also, she did a great job with remixes, as good as Madonna. She was unique in that she was probably the first artist to rerecord her vocals for remixes. I do think she is respected MORE than Whitney. For one thing, even during her peak when Mottola was extremely controlling, her material was often much better (except for songs like Hero) thanmost of what Whitney sang and she was also more diverse in what she sang. I do agree with someone above who said that Mariah is trashy because she makes expensive things look cheap. She needs to stop wearing dresses that are too tight and don't fit.

R151, her album Emotions is filled with great songs, none of them dumb. And she's a pop star, are they supposed to write songs that are the equivalent of what Dylan or Joni Mitchell write?

r153, Yes.

Well R151, any scam is possible. But, as you note, her songs aren't exactly complex existential musings. Plus she's had songwriting credits on just about everything from day 1 and it's not as though she had any clout in the beginning to negotiate those kind of credits. She couldn't even pick the producers on her first album--Motolla put together her whole team. She wanted to co-produce her first album and she wasn't allowed or given that credit.

Plus she wrote a song with Carole King ("If It's Over"), and I don't see Carole King gifting anyone an undeserved songwriting credit.

R155, that song is fantastic. That is very impressive that Carole King co-wrote it with her, and she was a brand new singer with only one album behind her.

R155 Mottola knew to compete with Whitney and Madonna she had to be a "singer-songwriter". Yes, he songs are not complex. She has never written a Like A Prayer type song. But to say she had a better voice than Whitney is delusion galore. Aside from the fact she hasn't been able to sing since the early 00's, I did enjoy her early years voice especially on Hero and Without You were I feel she had a great sounding lower register like Madonna.

However, I think her songwriting is greatly overhyped. Not like Beyonce' who has 15 writers on her song and she is listed last. But Mariah is no great songwriter. And Whitney shit on her vocally.

R156, And it wasn't a situation where King gave her the song and Carey added a line. They actually sat down together at a piano and wrote it old school style.

R158 I'm sure Carol was being nice.

Mariah had a wider range than Whitney. Whitney could never sing the bridge to I'm Every Woman live. Whitney had a more natural style, though.

I don't care what anyone says. I love me some Mariah. Even if she has pretty much made the same ballad 13 different ways. New Yorkers just always have something special about them, and I love her carefree, down to earth personality while still being a diva. She's like a biracial Marilyn Monroe. She may not have been as beautiful or elegant as Whitney Houston but the girl had charm.

I feel like such a Mary for being so into pop divas sometimes. Its my one fem guilty pleasure. LOL.

R157, at Mariah's peak from 1990-1996, she was definitely as good if not better of a singer than Whitney. Of course, this is really subjective. But she had a more distinctive voice than Whitney and she could reach higher notes. It depends on what you prefer. As for not writing a Like a Prayer? Well, like someone else mentioned, she cowrote the song "If its over" with Carole King. And she also wrote some other songs which I think are great for pop music.

R158, you're right. Carole wouldn't just GIVE her a writing credit. The fact that Mariah could do that with Carole on her second album is very impressive. And she was very young when she started, 19 I think?

R159, so she gave Mariah Carey, a brand new artist at the time, a fake songwriting credit even though she's never been so nice to do that for the tons of legends she's written songs for?

Seriously, do you have any clue what Carole King's discography is?

Has Mariah's vocal technique ever been experienced live. She has a brilliant studio voice, and I'm not alluding to stars like Janet and Britney who can't sing at all. Mariah has pipes but it seems like she always chokes when it comes to showcasing it live. And even before she got older, I'm talking 90s and eraly 2000s.

R165, for you

R165, also...

Can we get the fuck off Mariah already, assholes?

Another tidbit to consider on the Mariah as a songwriter topic: on her second album, Mariah worked with Clivilles & Cole, the ruthless fuckers from C+C Music Factory who screwed over Martha Wash and who were hugely in demand at the time. You think they're handing some brand new singer undeserved songwriting credits and cutting into their percentage when they could work with much bigger artists on their own terms?

Yes, Carol was being nice. I'm sure Mariah contributed lyrics, with Carol's help, no doubt. There is nothing particularly impressive about Mariah except her early years voice. She is not exceptional in any other way. She had one live good concert experience then it went to hell. She couldn't cut it live, vocally or any other way. It is why she has never been a huge concert draw- she was not great live and was not exceptional.

R169 Yes, with the ruthless Mottola watching over. Are you serious? Yes, Mottola controlled it all and defo wanted his baby to get songwriting credits to build the myth she was heavily involved in songs.

Carole King wasn't "nice" to Phil Spector in that manner, why would she be to Mariah?

MOTOLLA! He was so powerful. Are you dense?

Why isn't his current wife a success, then?

The business changed. He no longer had the power to do what he did then.

Again, I'm not saying she didn't contribute to lyrics, as they weren't all that great, but she is not a great or good songwriter. She was a great singer but that went away as well.

C + C had no reason to cater to some demand by Motolla to share fake songwriting credits on a couple of songs. They were already huge and working with Whitney, Michael Jackson and NKOTB around that time. Same with Carole King--Motolla had absolutely nothing over her.

Not to mention the Great and Powerful Motolla had no power to protect Mariah when she was sued by her old songwriting PARTNER Ben Margulies. Margulies walked away with a chunk of her second album's profits because she reneged on a deal that she would CO-write it with him. And as ugly and bitter as that lawsuit got, Margulies never claimed Carey didn't deserve her songwriting credits, he was only pursuing his share.

Do you have a reading comprehension problem? No one said she didn't contribute lyrics. Her songwriting has never been lauded-ever. She is not a great or good songwriter. Her contributions, though, were likely altered greatly and Motolla pushed hard for her to be seen as this great songwriter. Carole King probably greatly helped her when they wrote that song.

Enough on Mariah the unexceptional. Back to Nippy!

Carole King said otherwise and she has ZERO incentive to lie. At the time they worked together, Carole was already a legend and Mariah was brand new. And nobody pushed her as a "great songwriter." No one claimed her songs were anything more than catchy pop.

The thread is over now that Mariah Carey is here. Whatever that is, I don't want to hear it.

To the mariah stan why argue with a crazy person. What cloud what a brand new artist have to demand songwriting credits from seasoned legends and industry veterans. The mariah hater sounds demented.

clout*^^^

I'm actually not a Mariah stan, I just can't stand nonsense. I'm also the one who called her trashy and I can't stand her obnoxious antics. I also don't care about most of her songs, though I can see why she's had so many hits.

R182 sure, Jan

I haven't seen either one, but I am more interested in the Nick Broomfield one.

A Whitney concert was one of the best concerts I had ever been to. She was utterly amazing as a live singer. Her voice was fuller and more supple than on records.

The bland crap she sang on records to make her a pop star become soul powerhouse songs when she sang them live.

I never expected that before I saw her live.

She, however, couldn’t dance...at all.

Whitney’s songs made us feel something. Mariah was never great live and her songs leave me so cold emotionally

Has anyone actually seen the documentary?

Is it better than Can I Be Me?

[quote]She was utterly amazing as a live singer.

She really was!!!

Her evil mother had poisonous jealousy written all over her face here.

I always thought that Whitney's voice had a much nicer tone to it than Mariah's. Mariah technically has an excellent singing voice, but it just isn't that pleasing to me; especially her high notes.

I think Whitney's first album has some of the most incredible singing. I just love how smooth it sounds on songs like You Give Good Love and Hold Me and then the power on songs like Saving All My Love for You and The Greatest Love of All.

Pt1 Finally back to Whitney!! Blocked the Mdge Bot, followed by the Mariah fan. Peace at last and back to the woman that could actually Carry a 2.5hr concert, mic, key light and her mesmerizing charisma, all alone on the stage. Ms. Whitney Houston!

Two different films, The latest documentary tells more story of her life. It is totally amazing to think that she was born less than a year after the Civil Rights Voting Act sought to end Jim Crow, began her pivotal climb to THE definitive Global Super Star at a time when she had To hide in the closet. But for her talent she simply couldnt catch a dam break!

“Whitney” will be one of the best documentary’s of 2018. It is WELL worth seeing, esp if you are a member of the LGBT community and are too young to have a sense of perspective/history what the ‘80. 90’s were like for the community. There is a flash image of Whitney on an ACTUP?? Poster under a bold headline “Absolutely QUEER” that was scattered in a few parts of the Village. I am glad that group came to its senses. Whitney was struggling severely with it all.

The film makes it clear that she and Crawford were lovers - the director insists that it ended mid 80’s I am not so sure. They continued to live together on her estate for a long time. Robyn is reportedly writing a book so we will have the details soon enough. Fall I guess. Apparently if you were in her employment circle Whitney made it clear - Robyn was the Boss 2nd only to Whitney - equally empowered was her SIL MIchaels wife. Those 2 women were adored by nearly all of Whitney’s band, employees. Whitney did as she once said “I hope people will say that I treated them righteously.” She certainly did.

If you knew Whitney, you knew she was out and with Robyn, she surrounded herself with gay people in the biz as well esp refugees from her church.

I do believe she was molested as reported. Her total collapse after Robyn left belies it. Robyn apparently had enough - the film reports that Robyn said “its me or him - HE is going to KILL YOU!” She made the wrong choice.

Without Robyn to nurture her in a soulless money grubbing, hungry hoard this was the score: 2 brothers bleeding her dry for drug money, a father stealing millions from her, a mother that & brothers that were so homophobic and jealous of Robyn they made her life hell - the demon of child abuse caught up with her. She simply could not cope. At all. The Pressure of Nippy , Inc broke her soul and made her forget who she was.

.

*Should read “Her total collapse after Robyn left seems to bear that conclusion out.”

PT 2 The man child, untreated bipolar jealous ass wreck enabler she married in the 90’s was in the press every month with arrests, exposing his dick to women, drug busts, gun violence.

With a total lack of professional, clinical counseling treatment to deal with molestation as a 5-6yr old left her empty - and she crumbled. Despite her Iconic status...Addiction is what she could not overcome.

If you think about the decades she spent millions upon millions in Childrens philanthropy it all makes mad sense. Think about it, in her early 20’s climbing that Successful Rainbow in the SKY. Tours, records, Robby, a mega playland of a home, NYC... what was she doing? Gifting Childrens Charities. Many of them. She couldnt fix herself - but she was willing to try for all the other kids. WOW.

Cissy just handed her a bible and told her to “buck up Jeezus loves you.” Cissy had no idea what had happened. Predators are good at that intimidating victims.

I really dont have much to say about Cissy except she was a remarkable provider and loved her kids. She really was not a good One for empathy at all. Yes the confession of molestation really must have nearly finished her off - imgine she has lived with the realization she was a jackass about Whitney’s Lesbianism and vicious to the only person that took good care of her - Robyn. Whitney married Brown, self destructed. Whitney died. Her Granddaughter was basically murdered. Now she just learned of this. Reports are that Cissy has onset dementia. (It would almost be a blessing at this point.)

Both Dionne and Cissy issued a statement saying that they regret the filmmakers accusation etc etc etc.

A group of ridiculous fans are trying to squeeze poor suffering Whitney RIGHT back in that closet! Blaming SIL Pat for this - absurd. “They wanna Boycott! They wanna lawsuit!” Totally Stupid fucktards. Pat didnt say it, Gary did. Neither Pat or Cissy have any right to edit - that was the agreement with the Director. So the crazy cryptkeepers are tilting at windmills and ramping up a fever pitch for old Cissy’s last days. So who are the inhumane ones I ask? CRYPTKEEPERS!

This documentary will place decently since non fic films are hot. Really everyone should see this film - her talent will place her - if justice is served - as one of the Top 3 GREATEST VOCALISTS IN AMERICAN POP HISTORY. It is totally not her fault that her family was so utterly fucked up by that old time hate and nobody could get her the inpatient hospitalization she needed and she DESERVED. They needed her to keep printing the money.

Whitney really now needs a film to shore up her MAGIC, her GENIUS: “Star Spangled Banner” ONE TAKE. “IWALY” ONE TAKE Her interpretive powers were GENIUS. All she needed was Robyn on a couch in the studio watching and hanging. There was no hand holding Diva retakes - One take and then the background tracks. GENIUS like no other. Lets see that film!

But I want to leave you with this story:

R135 NippyLynne is well known to Whitney fans. Cool you are neighbors. There are a number of interviews with her (including the “Whitney” film) on the web. I read one interview that was simply disturbing - LV was recounting how she went to wrk for Whitney via her father John. “I LOVED John Houston! For a period I was really struggling with a HEROIN ADDICTION. He saved my life - he called me up and said “I have paid for your rehab you will go away for 2 months and get better.” I chocked, That fucking father of hers only ONCE tried to get Whitney in rehab - and he scuttled a fairly successful confrontation with her other family members, she called him during the intervention and he told her “He said I DONT have to go!” So LV made her coin, was devoted to Whitney certainly - but I cannot wrap my mind around that one. Ever

*I choked., that fucking father of hers...

Could be wrong but I am certain the relationship lasted until the late 80’s, awaiting Robyns story.

Did it talk about her death shit bath?

I'm kind of sorry that Robyn is saying anything - I thought it was very classy of her to keep her relationship (both professional and romantic) with Whitney private. But I wonder if the two documentaries finally pushed her to tell her side of the story.

There's no question in my mind that had Whitney & Robyn stayed together, Whitney would be alive. I am not sure Whitney would have come out - (For Pete's sake, stone cold butch* Latifah hasn't officially come out!). I think the homophobia of her family and church would have still weighed heavily on her.

(*Not dissing my stone cold butch sisters. Butch Lesbians are way cool)

R189 what's wrong with her whistle notes?

If there is actual love for Whitney to back up the adulation church communities will look hard at the role they played in her demise. She couldnt feel loved by her family for her relationship with Crawford - the church replied that is the DEVIL’S SIN!

If she could’nt speak to that why on earth would she think she could speak of the molestation? Isnt that the exact language Mary Jones quotes Whitney using in the film “What did I do to make her (DeeDee) think I wanted her?” How fucking atrocious and ugly is That mind set to live with yr entire life? That secret shame came right out of the pulpit.

Black churches perpetuating the myth that AA Lesbians dont exist, or are invisible are as much to blame for Whitney’s demise as anything. That was her home, bad enough her entire family were the worst of ignorant bigots.

[quote][R150] I don't for one minute think she has serious input into her songwriting. I mean, none of her songs are really lyrically much above 8th grade poetry but she has never ever uttered anything intelligent. She is dim as they get and now she's a Christmas act, a shameless Christmas act. I'm embarrassed for her. She can't fill small venues even with her #1's and album sales. Like she struggles to get 2,000-4,000 people to attend her tours in most places.

You're in idiot. Mariah has been well-documented in her song-writing process since her 1st album. She CO_WRITES usually with a piano player (originally Ben Marguiles) because she can play piano but not very well (he couldn't really either in a live setting). She has gone into detail about how she has written various songs, and she does much more than the lyrics, including the melodies and chord progressions.

Her lyrics up until the last 10 years have a much wider use of vocabulary than most pop writers. Ever see the word "Fervent" used in a pop song???

Now her last few albums have been trash and she is now admittedly "crazy" (she came out as bipolar) but to say she doens't really write her songs is just stupid.

Back to Whitney (who was cool with Mariah)

You know what, R198? START A FUCKING MARIAH THREAD.

I don't care for Mariah in the role of singer. I wish she would write.

R200 Sure, Jan. No one cares anymore and no one believes it. "Fervent" Bwhahahahahahahahahahahha ooooooooooook And no one likes those fucking dog whistles. No one. No one is impressed.

Yes, the black churches are so violently homophobic, maybe even worse than your standard white evangelical church. It is shameful they focus so much on that. Whitney likely felt such shame and self-loathing she of course self-medicated. She wasn't strong enough or had the coping skills to get past things. I fault many people. She needed better friends. Robin was more than a friend and likely didn't help Whitney feel better about herself. She needed some good friends whom she trusted who could help her with self-esteem and give her love. Cissy is a beast. I can't imagine what she secretly said to Whitney in private.

This from a scholar at UPenn. Robyn nurtured her and kept the chaos at bay. Brown ripped the scab off and poured Salt in. I recall that her daughter said Whitney was incredibly lonely and would be at her bedroom door frequently saying “do you need me?” Man, that was a loneliness That could not be filled by Brown or myriad men.

It was Robyn then it was her daughter. To a teenager that must have been waay overwhelming and incited all kinds of anger. Whitney should have picked up the phone to Robyn and moved back to NJ asap, gone to rehab and faced these relentless demons.

[quote][R200] Sure, Jan. No one cares anymore and no one believes it. "Fervent" Bwhahahahahahahahahahahha ooooooooooook And no one likes those fucking dog whistles. No one. No one is impressed.

Yeah, Marcia. That's why her albums broke all records and she's rich beyond your wildest dreams. But go on living in your delusions. Moron.

R205 Sure, Jan. Where's George Glass?

Read a couple of bad reviews but saw this and thought it was pretty insightful. I am not a huge Whitney stan with all the background info but always would have guessed Bobby Brown was to blame for Whitney’s drug problem. The documentary is pretty clear that isn’t the case but suggests she was enabled by people closer to home before she ever met Bobby, and given it was made with Houston family support then I’m inclined to believe it.

The way she had a brother on the payroll who she was supporting whow as calling Robyn “evil” (clearly for being a lesbian) was pretty shocking. Clearly Whitney and Robyn were close and Whitney’s Dad clearly wanted rid of Robyn as a strong influence in Whitney’s life. For a documentary made with family support, none of the family come across that great. I’m glad Whitney had the love and support of the family friend “Aunt Bae”, who was lovely and seems genuinely stricken by the loss of Bobbi Kristina too.

R203 “She needed better friends. Robin was more than a friend and likely didn't help Whitney feel better about herself...”

Well going by physical evidence after R left, I would say she actually DID do a yeomans job of helping Whitney in face of profound destruction of Bobby Brown. Not to mention her reported endless arguments trying to get Whitney in rehab. Robyn seem to be pretty clear that Whitney needed REAL medical intervention so your comment is just click bait. Jeez.

R208 What I meant, and do get reading comp help, is her lesbian lover was not going to sway how she felt about herself if she was depressed about being a lesbian. I never said R didn't try to help. It was no use. Whitney was deep down ashamed of her feelings for R so it just made things worse. R couldn't help even though she tried.

R209 You should definitely see the documentary.

There is no bigger Whitney fan than I am, but I won't watch her tragedy again. At least not for a while. Whitney had a very long public fall before she finally hit her head and died. We knew what was up for 15 years. Usually I would only post her magnificence, but this is the one clip I keep of her to remind that she was never coming back, no matter what. She was damaged and exploited and self destructive in every possible way and yet she still tried to please. Heartbreaking.

Saw it last night- love the brothers calling Bobby a lightweight with drugs- so you know her problem was due to Bobby. It’s good because the interviews both in what is said and unsaid by all tell the truth. This magnificent singer snuffed out by a perfect storm of circumstance she was not equipped to handle.

Whitney has become a gay icon in death, despite being closeted and her the gays never really fawning over her like other female divas. Ironic how life works. she was beautiful and and the greatest female vocalist of all time. RIP Nippy.

How could a 6yr old confront Cissy & her Pop Star cousin Dionne? Robyn def helped Whitney keep herself together - Houston def knew she Would succumb to her demons w/out Robyn. Note her “I am my own biggest enemy comment” to Sawyer. What apreposterous thing for her to have said.

Robyn must have wept when she watched that.

If you've ever done crack you'd know that Whitney was up for several days "partying" before than Sawyer interview. No one should have let her near a camera, but there we have it and saw it. Later we would see worse. When asked who was the biggest devil among her demons, she looked defiant and devious and scary and responded to Sawyer, "Well that would be me." It was chilling. She was still a beauty then but obviously a strung out one. Her constitution for years of prolonged partying was also part of the problem. Yes, a perfect storm. People forget how much fun drugs are, until they're not. Whitney was betrayed and exploited and enabled. She was also psychologically damaged by drugs and ultimately responsible for her behavior. She was loved, but she took another lover.

R213 Why does Whitney get a free pass for being closeted?

R215, did Whitney do crack cocaine or "just" cocaine? She seemed pretty vehement about not doing crack. Then again, I know drug addicts are deceitful but Chaka Kahn said she did coke with her and Bobby during the time of The Bodyguard.

R217. Chaka was being kind and careful. She was the first one to speak out about Whitney's drug problem the day after she died. The PTB got to her quickly and shut her up. Chaka had a well known crack addiction and that is how she partied with Whitney and Bobby. Many times, she spoke of it as having a lot of crazy fun. Even if you've recovered, you should give the drugs their due. No one does cocaine for 20 years unless they like it. It's not like heroin. You can clean up from it quickly if you just fucking stop. It has a deep psychological hold maybe, but it 's the high that keeps you wanting more. Chaka was very angry with Clive Davis, as many people should be. Still she toned down her confessions. She is one of the more honest people about the severity of Whitney's drug use.

So, yes..Whitney did crack, which she called rock. It's the same thing. Smokable cocaine in crystallized rocks that you smoke in a pipe or rolled with weed. Crack was her downfall and arrived with Bobby. Snorting cocaine does not ruin your lungs or give you the congested hollow sound that Whitney had the last 10 years of her life. She was a crack addict, she just didn't want to say so because crack was known as a "ghetto" street drug. Bobbi and Whitney smoked clean stuff that was pure cocaine w a bit of baking soda. They smoked in front Bobbi Kris all the time when she was young and later Whitney smoked crack with her daughter. God help her.

When people talk of Whitney doing drugs long before Bobbi it was mostly lines of coke. Partying. Most people did that in the 1980s and longer and they survived. But crack came from the devil's ass and it gets a completely different hold on you with a much more powerful and all consuming high. Poor Whitney, Bobby used to send her to the corner of Clinton Ave to buy crack when their dealer wasn't available. She went in the back of a limousine. Style,, no. But Whitney did not start out talking like the ghetto girl she affected in her deep in denial later years. She got that from lowlife Bobby and all the drug dealers and losers you hang with when you do nothing but smoke crack for days on end. Her brothers were terrible influences and users too, as was ultimately Whitney. She paid people to stay and later she paid them to stay away. She was in deep. That's why I don't want to see the family documentary, because it's still full of mendacity, greed, sinful levels of exploitation and lies.

The spoon found at Whitney's death site is from fast cooking cocaine to form rock or crack, that she then smoked in a pipe. Took a big hit and passed out. Drowned.

r216, Because one she was a victim of child sexual abuse and 2, she never spoke ill of LGB people, and from all accounts was a very kind person as a whole. And whose to say her relationship with Bobby was not real on some level. She also wasn't a whore as it seems Robyn is the only woman she has ever been linked 2.

r218, Wow. Thanks for sharing.

R218, thanks for that. I think you're right about Chaka--she called the music industry "demonic" and it wouldn't surprise me if she was also referring to Clive Davis when she made that admission. Of course, she couldn't name him out loud. One thing about Madonna that is missing these days is that she wasn't an immediate hit with the public--her popularity gradually grew as she released Like a Virgin and from every month on up until True Blue was released, she got more popular every month. And she was also in her mid 20s (26) when Like a Virgin became huge. I think if you're older, it is much easier to deal with fame, especially if it doesn't come right away. But Whitney, she was only 22 when she became huge and she was a hit immediately. I think that kind of immediate success for a female in music was unprecedented. That kind of pressure to be many things to many people--black, white, young girls, her family, the music industry--is hard to handle and Im not surprised it hit her so hard. The image she had to maintain couldn't last and it didn't.

More on how much of a piece of crap Clive Davis is. I'm inclined to believe Kelly here...not that that's hard.

What's the point of posting that Kelly Clarkson report? To suggest Clive was one of Whitney's demons?

Don't doubt that Clive Davis was one of Whitney's demons. She's worth way more dead than alive and he's still claiming to know nothing of her troubles while profiting from them. Kelly has many better stories about Clive than that one....

How is that the case? Clive Davis has done surprisingly little with Whitney's back catalogue.

She was no gay icon. At all. Revisionist history to suggest she even deserves that title. And before some of you come in saying it, no, others don't deserve to be gay icons if you didn't push gay rights and actively speak out. Only those that did, risking their careers, should be. I like Madonna's music but I hate saying I'm a fan of anyone. I like their music, Whitney included. I saw so many people in my school who loved Madonna until she started speaking out for AIDES patients and gay rights. In my southern school, she went from the most popular to hated very quick. That's putting your career on the line.

BOttom line Whitney was known & out by AA community in NYC. R226 You are incorrect she was indeed a DIVA esp later - ACTUP wanted to out her demand that she be a public face for AIDS sufferers. That was the White bias and cluelessness that Whitney was facing profound Homophobia from both her community and far far worse her family.

Somehow that became known. Over night reconciliation was made and outing her was off the table. Was it her philanthropy? Did her misery become known? Was it that so many of her band mates were Gay - and some also suffered from HIV?

Her DIVA NESS is now without dispute. She was a quiet supporter of Transrights as well as LGB people.

Being a diva should not make one a gay icon. That is stupid. When was she a huge LGBT rights supporter? Very late in life? Still, not a gay icon.

Buh Bye Madge you couldnt carry a tune so just take that conical bra and move on down the road... She is very very much a gay icon. She “was a big gay supporter” when she gave half the closet cases in her church jobs in her band. When she freed the Homos from the Baptists. When she paid to help her Trans friends at a time the rest of the world didnt quite get “the drag queens.” When she was paying for people struggling with HIV/AIDS without using it to make headlines. We knew, she was solid.

She wasn't a gay supporter she was a closet case

You seem to have problem understanding Racism and how that (didnt) register in the LGBT community of NYC. Just cause you had no clue... Bub Bye. She was taking care of a LOT OF LGBT PEOPLE, it doesnt matter that you personally “didnt know about it.”

[quote]People out there know I’m a married woman. I mean, [bold]what kind of a person am I – to be married and to have another life? [/bold]First of all, [bold]my husband[/bold] wouldn’t go for it – let’s get that out of the way, okay? [bold]He’s all boy[/bold], and he ain’t goin’ for it, okay? But I’m so fucking tired of that question, and I’m tired of answering it.

He's all boy! homophobic much? what an gay icon!

Whitney Houston’s sexuality has long been a topic of rumor and considerable debate, thanks in large part to the very close relationship she had with childhood friend turned assistant Robyn Crawford. In a 1999 Out cover story, Whitney addressed those rumors, saying, “Listen, I took a lot of grief for shit that wasn’t me, OK, ‘cause I had friends, ‘cause I was close to people. But that ain’t me. [boldI know what I am. I’m a mother. I’m a woman. I’m heterosexual. Period.[/bold]”

Just came out of this film: I feel totally drained. She was surrounded by a den of vipers including all of her family. Why is that disgusting Bobby Brown still alive? If only she had been able to accept her sexuality with Robin, it all would’ve been different.

But the media always distorts shit. It’s never, never what I said; it’s never how I said it; it’s never how I thought that person perceived me. It’s always some other crazy shit – which is why I don’t like doing interviews. Because [bold]they lie. They just outright lie.[/bold]

Are you referring to the rumors that you were having a relationship with Robyn Crawford?

You know what? I am so tired of this. I’m really sick of it. People want to know if there is a relationship: Our relationship is that we’re friends. We’ve been friends since we were kids. She now is my employee. I’m her employer. And we’re still best of friends. That’s what it is. [bold]You mean to tell me that if I have a woman friend, I have to have a lesbian relationship with her? That’s bullshit. [/bold]There are so many, so many female artists who have women as their confidantes, and nobody questions that. So I realize that it’s like “Whitney Houston – she’s popular, let’s fuck with her.” I have denied it over and over again, and nobody’s accepted it. Or the media hasn’t.

[bold]People out there know I’m a married woman. I mean, what kind of a person am I – to be married and to have another life? First of all, my husband wouldn’t go for it – let’s get that out of the way, okay? He’s all boy, and he ain’t goin’ for it, okay?[/bold] But I’m so fucking tired of that question, and I’m tired of answering it.

Whitney Houston is so much greater than a gay icon. Who the fuck cares? The magnificence of her astounding talent and sweet beauty elevated everyone and anyone. She belongs to no one. With a voice as big as the sea.

Madonna, Cher and Bette would be failures without gay boys screaming. Very old gay boys at this point.

Diana, Aretha, Barbra and Whitney are icons of the world, gay and otherwise.

[quote] If only she had been able to accept her sexuality with Robin, it all would’ve been different.

She accepted her sexuality and was with Robyn until Robyn left in 2000

Pat Houston is a viper. She was "in charge" when Whitney died, and then when Krissy died. The weak Houston family has allowed this bitch to come into their lives and wreck havoc.

R237: fo you really think she and Robyn were in a relationship until 2000? I don’t. Seems like Whitney kept her on as an employee all the while fucking that odious creature Bobby Brown.

Indeed she did accept her sexuality and yes she was with Crawford throughout the marriage. Robyn was her safe harbor and he hated it.

Meanwhile her money flowed everywhere, LGBT, Children.

No pumpkin, Gary Houston and Michael Houston wreck havoc. Pat didnt even have any biz relationship with Whitney until Robyn left and Whitney asked he to speak with the press.

Given that Whitney was leaving Brown everyother week - yeah she prob ran right into Robyns arms - that was why the ultimatum came from Crawford- she would not have had the authority to declare its me or him. Sources say she always kept Robyn as her quiet go to.

R239 Yes they were in relationship until 2000. Whitney had no problem with her sexuality and Robyn wasn't the only woman Whitney dated.

Bobby was just a merkin and he's gay af the whole truth comes out when he dies .

Bobby Brown and His Gay Outrage

I always liked Monique thought she was righteous - but she and Jonathan really have to give it a rest already. After all Gary just got his just deserts with his declarative “I hate gays/Robynwasntnothing” It will live on forever, and us gayuns will hate his ugly ass forever.

Robyns Rose grows prettier and sweeter with that Houston Family hate.

Yes Whitney definitely had a thing with Cherelle - got that from C’s cousin., she was around them. Further C’s mother was a lifelong Lez that married for money in her later years - the joke was it ran in the family.

R241: so then why did she get together with Bobby? I think he unlocked her original ghetto roots. Cissy made her a Lady by sending her to private Catholic schools. My point is that Bobby was a terrible influence on her.

[244]so then why did she get together with Bobby?

beard/merkin couple

I don't believe Whitney and Bobby's relationship was fake or bearding/merkin. Whitney was bi. If you watch even 5 minutes of that "Being Bobby Brown" mess, you'd know that was a real (and really dysfunctional) couple. Whatever she had going on with Robyn (or any other woman) she did try to make that marriage work.

One of the saddest episodes now looking back: Mother's Day and Whitney's pissed that Bobby's family is around. Hearing her and Bobbi Kristina talk about Bobbi's future wedding is heartbreaking.

r246 Am only remarking on the Bobby Brown shit show - that Mothers Day episode said it all. Here she is the bankroll enjoying exactly ZERO Mothers Day - but every other mother is on her dime of course. He should be Dead.

Whitney, just wow...I Have Nothing was her best ballad imo.

The Best. She was the best. I love that song too R248 though many of her live versions were more beautiful and resounding. It doesn't matter - Whitney was a great singer, even with cracked notes.

r225 makes a good point. Since Whitney's death, there has only been a few official releases: The 2-disc greatest hits collection, a CD/DVD of live performances, and The Bodyguard 25th Anniversary commemoration.

Whitney's first album was remastered and reissued before her death, but I don't think it sold very well, as plans to remaster 1987's Whitney and The Bodyguard were canceled.

I am surprised, though, that greedy Clive and Pat haven't done more to cash in on Whitney's death. Surprising restraint on their parts.

She was no gay icon and had a decent amount of WW success.

R236 Your hysterical post is.......hysterical. She is not on the level of Aretha, Barbara or Madonna as far as true legendary ICONS. All have fan bases that far exceed "screaming gay boys" as you so homophobically put it. You must be a fraus. Btw- Madonna's fan base is mostly fraus so fuck off nutcase.

You're mentally ill R251. I'm a dude and a lot younger than you. Whitney has hundreds of millions of fans around the world and gains more everyday.

Madonna and Cher have 60+ year old gay screaming (white) queens for fans, of which you are evidently one. Aretha, Barbra and Midler are all but forgotten as recording artists, except by their 70 year old fans.

There is no such thing as a frau btw. Ancient white fags most resemble that slur I guess. You're all just white ladies to me.

A voice like Whitney Houston's comes once in a lifetime. Madonna doesn't belong in the same category, page, room or sentence as the legendary Houston. Madonna is historic but not as a singer. Streisand had a beautiful sounding voice and Aretha is one of the greatest singers ever, but they are historically problematic - not unlike yourself R251. May god grant you peace and heal your bitter heart. So many older gays are bitter angry men. I'll pray for you.

*****

No one else could or can...

Fuck, 60 of the posts on this thread are from R251! I didn't know the old guy was that troubled. Now blocked.

R252 You can't handle the truth. That is fucking hysterical! Everything you wrote is so wrong but the only thing to do to you is LMFAO.

Sorry but that Whitney loon is not young. It's not like she has a young fan base and the loon in delusional. I've dealt with it in the past.

It all depends what you think of as a gay icon. For us lesbians, a closeted bisexual Whitney (as the documentary clearly acknowledges she is) is, for any faults she may have had, more iconic than, say, Madonna. Gay men majority view may differ...

R258 I don't know many lesbians who like Whitney at all. In fact, I've never met a lesbian who liked Whitney.

There's only one loon here. Isolate the posts of R259 and you'll see that it argues with everyone and then posts more to agree with himself. Sick fuck.

Gay Woman here, every single woman I know adores Whitney all the more since so many of us new the real story she was living. Ladies of WNBA were both friends and massive fans. She was a total dyke magnet. Whitney and Robyn were very close to the DL Lez crowds both in NYC and later Whitney with the ATL crowd. Post divorce with a teenage daughter she was more discreet.

What exactly did you think was going on with her phoned in disappearances to “hang with Aunty Cherelle” during the Brown show?

If you block R259 an awful lot of homophobia, Whitney bashing posts disappear.

Some of mistaking people who go to concerts for overall pop cultural influence. Cher and Madonna may have mostly elder gays screaming at their shows, but their overall influence in music and society at large is undeniable. Their signature songs most people know. they are more iconic in music than Whitney because they changed the landscape. Their success is so much more than #1 singles and record sales, for which they they have a lot of. Beyonce is more iconic than Whitney at this point now.

^^^Some are*

Thats fine if many lesbians consider Whitney a gay icon. You can have your hero who remained closeted in life, which I'm not condemning her but lets be real here. Lesbians also forget how hard it is for gay men; to diminish a superstar like Madonna's impact on legitimizing our rights is downright criminal.

R265 incidentally, I was 10 when Madonna performed "Vogue" à la Marie Antoinette at the 1990 VMAs. By that time, I already knew I liked other boys and knew what 'gay' was and that it was looked down upon by society. Imagine my surprise and elation when Madonna performed with a bunch of flamboyantly gay backup dancers on national TV! The friends I was watching with kept saying "Ew!" "They're like big girls." And even mocking their moves. But I didn't let it deter me. I sat transfixed. I didn't realize it then, but that was the first time I felt/witnessed acceptance for gay men, that it was all right.

R266, I didn't grow up in the 80s but I'm sure her impact on younger gay men must have been huge, especially considering the AIDS crisis and all. People have argued that Madonna doesn't care about gays and that she only used them to exploit her sales. I don't agree with that. In the 80s, how would exploiting gays benefitted her career? This was the decade of AIDS. Additionally, how she treats individual people on the road to fame and sustaining it (such as her individual dancers) shouldn't be confused with her attitudes towards gay rights and tolerance.

The Whitney troll claims I have posted nothing but negative Whitney stuff. That is patently bullshit as I defended her and called out her enablers who killed her over and over again. That I didn't lick her ass claiming she's more of a star than Aretha, Barbara or Madonna triggered that racist asshole.

R265 Also it was more accepted in most circles to be lesbian. Being gay in the 90's was brutal.

What Whitney Troll? You're the only one obsessively posting. Whitney is as great a star as Madonna, Streisand and Aretha Franklin. Nothing to argue about that.

R246 I don't believe Whitney and Bobby's relationship was fake or bearding/merkin. Whitney was bi.

She wasn't bisexual she was with Robyn before and during her fake marriage to Bobby Brown

She was an gay icon as much as Tammy Cruise is gay icon lol

R219 = delusional fangirl

[quote]Because one she was a victim of child sexual abuse

So what? and how do you know about the other closet cases how do you know if they are victim of child sexual abuse or not?

[quote]from all accounts was a very kind person as a whole

No she wasn't she was abusive to staff

[quote]And whose to say her relationship with Bobby was not real on some level

And whose to say her relationship with Brown was real!? lol

[quote]Robyn is the only woman she has ever been linked 2.

Robyn is not the [bold]only woman[/bold] she has ever been linked.

Stop lying you are embarrassing yourself

Whitney is known for her voice, not her music. That's why her catalog hasn't sold since her death. Michael and Prince's iconic catalogs continue to sell well. Madonna's catalog will continue to sell long after she's gone, too.

When it came to Whitney, Clive Davis always wanted the focus on the voice, rather than the song. Her only iconic song, That's why her albums no longer sell. They released an album last year with some of her hits and new live versions and it was a big flop. Her catalog is just not relevant to today's music. Even George Michael's catalog is doing better than her's.

R273, Thriller, Ray of Light, and The Immaculate Collection continue to sell strongly so you are correct in that aspect. Regarding Whitney's classic songs, I would say The Greatest Love of All, I Wanna Dance with Somebody, I Will Always Love you and I have nothing will be remembereed since some aspiring singer on some tv show will get the urge to cover at least one of them. I don't necessarily like all those songs. I do think I Wanna Dance with Somebody and I will Always Love you have a strong presence on youtube and spotiy though?

Whitney had hits due to her voice, not really because of the songs except in some cases. I am all about How Will I Know over I Wanna Dance With Somebody any day. Same with Celine Dijon.

Whitney Houston was part of a secret group of famous lesbians she was not bisexual as her delusional fans want to believe

They can't accept her as what she was a lesbian and can't accept the fact that their idol lied to them about her marriage and did interviews about her fake relationships with her fake husband/boyfriends/merkins and toured with her fake husband/merkin for publicity and her fake image

She even brought a child into their fucked up and fake relationship

R274 Whitney's classic songs, I would say The Greatest Love of All, I Wanna Dance with Somebody, I Will Always Love you and I have nothing

The Greatest Love of All and I Will Always Love are not Whitney Houston's song they are covers

R277, it doesn't matter. Whitney made those songs her own.

R273 George Michael's catalog is doing better than her's.

George Michael's first three albums are great and aged very well

R278 I have to agree. They are Whitney Houston songs. She did make them her own, for sure. Though, she is short on classic songs and she doesn't have a popular back catalog.

R280, exactly, it's the same as "Nothing Compares To You", people forget it's a Prince song which is a testament to Sinead made the song her own.

They are not Whitney Houston songs she did not write or produce them

R282 But she is known for them. She didn't write or produce any of her stuff. I am no Whitney loon. I don't care for her music except a few songs but those are Whitney songs as far as the public is concerned.

Public Ignorance

Of course Whitney was bisexual. What a bunch of clowns some of you are. Whitney loved her some Bobby Brown and that's the truth. That a great deal of their entanglement was based on rebellion and a darkening addiction to crack and alcohol is beside the point that Whitney and Bobby's relationship was sexual and passionate and full of jealousies. Why do you think there was such tension between Bobby and Robyn?

Pose on FX, with the biggest cast of LGBT actors and actresses in history, is set in the ballroom scene of NYC during the AIDS epidemic. They feature Whitney's music twice in the first six episodes. Of course Whitney was a gay ICON and she has young fans - then and and now. It's just that some of y'all are too white to know any better.

To say that her music doesn't reach the level of her voice, well Madonna can't sing and Whitney wowed with her live renditions of her many HIT Songs. She sang better live and she never sang it the same way twice. She infused soul, R&B and gospel spirit into her polished pop songs and the posthumous release of some of her great live performances was a huge critical and commercial success. There's a major documentary in wide theatrical release (see thread title) and she is constantly referenced by current singers as their ultimate inspiration. Whitney songs are the most performed on all the talent show competitions (poorly) and though there are many who don't like her music, few people would deny her immense talent or the powerful beauty and JOY of her voice. Prince, Michael and Whitney are the holy trinity.

Madonna is in a different and more gimmicky category. Whitney bested her in every way. Madonna WAS just more prolific.

"Home" is a song that is associated with Whitney, Diana and Stephanie Mills. Movingly featured in POSE.

R285 confuses bearding with bisexuality

R285, no. Whitney's music as a whole wasn't anything spectacular. I like certain songs of hers a lot and it would be unfair to not give her her dues. But to suggest Whitney was in the same league as Prince and MJ while Madonna wasn't is just silly. Madonna's albums and songs were far more acclaimed by critics than anything Whitney did. The only consistent album Whitney did, prior to her downfall, was My Love is Your Love. Whitney herself new her material wasn't all that great. According to the lead singer of Deee Lite, she wanted to do dance music but she wasn't allowed to do that (like how Mottola was strongly against Mariah doing the Fantasy Remix with ODB).

R282, by that same definition, Like a Virgin and Material Girl are not Madonna songs.

*knew

R288 That Whitney loon gets triggered by Madonna. Every.Single.Time.

R285 Your ass got handed to you in the other thread. You DO get triggered by the mention of Madonna. Grow up. Stop trying to make Whitney something she wasn't.

R290, clearly. To say Madonna was merely gimicky while Whitney was in a trinity with Prince and MJ??? When did Whitney ever do something as groundbreaking as Ray of Light or even as defining of an era as The Immaculate Collection or Madonna's debut? Never. She had a spectacular voice and she did have some memorable songs but she's not in the same league as the other artists. I actually do think in terms of artistry, Mariah was superior. She was a co-writer, producer and singer, she is involved with her music as Madonna is and let's not forget she made the pop song featuring a rap artist a thing (not a great thing, but let's face it, she made it popular at a time when it was risky to do so).

The 80s and early 90s are defined by Madonna, Michael Jackson and Prince. Period.

Whitney and Mariah had great voices, and they sold a lot of records, but their music didn't define a generation.

R293, yet of all those singers, only the music of Michael Jackson and Whitney is still being played

And nobody puts Whitney in the same league as MJ, Madonna and Prince.

R294 Where, your bedroom? That is absolute horseshit and you know it. Like the rest of us can't discern the truth!

R294, most of Whitney's 80s songs aren't played as much as the hits of Madonna. Most of the songs on The Immaculate Collection are still played on the radio today. Whitney has gotten a lot less replay ever since she was caught on Marijuana possession.

R296 Why even respond to such an obvious absurdity? There are sites where they track what songs are being played. I'm not going to post one because that posters absurd statement doesn't deserve it. As if we don't have ears and don't know the truth.

Some people just say shit (lies) and expect us to just blindly believe it. Very Trum-p like.

Prince has gotten way more airplay since his death. I didn't hear him on the radio much at all until he died.

I did and he always had good airplay. Madonna has the most as she has the more extensive catalog. But Prince has always had great airplay.

The closeted cunt died in a shit bath, soaking in her shit. Shit bath death

Whitney's downfall had a lot to do with her stubborn adherence to the hypocritical church folks in her family and the people around her. She was a brainwashed victim of her upbringing and she never was smart enough to see through the BS

I would be down for a fourway with 80s Prince, Michael Jackson, and Madonna.

Wouldn't that be fucked up?

That reminds me, remember when MJ and Madonna attended the 1991 Oscars together? I was only 11 then, but I remember it vividly because I had just gotten into Madonna thanks to DICK TRACY, which I loved and had also gotten the I'M BREATHLESS soundtrack for X-mas. Anyway, that was a big to-do at the time. Two of the world's biggest superstars. They stole the movie stars' thunder that night. haha

R303 Madonna gave a great vocal performance that night. And great overall performance.

Madonna has never given a great vocal performance in her life. What a ridiculous assertion. You know nothing of music if you think that "Sooner or Later" is a difficult (or good) song to sing. Madonna has a nice warm tone in her lower register and she has some great music. But she isn't a singer. She was strictly an amatuer in that performance.

Fuck off Madonna troll. You're in some nutless rut about Whitney Houston. Y'all weren't a child in 1991 and you don't know dick about dick or music. Who keeps track of radio play in 2018? You're mental illness is all over this thread.

* YOUR mental illness

Whitney and Mariah recording their duet. Unlike Streisand they weren't afraid to actually record it together or sing it live. Whitney was supposedly past prime and Mariah was still in hers in 1998? Listen and learn. Whitney knows what she's doing, sounds soulful and divine while Mariah whispers and pitches around the song, throwing off bad harmornies. She eventually got it right - in the recording studio only. Whitney could sing off the back of a truck with a crack pipe in her mouth. The gods blessed her. Nobody else made her. Mariah had some beautiful spots in her voice that she connected together with a lot of nonsense. Forever.

Whitney could sing off the back of a truck with a crack pipe in her mouth.

This has the makings of a DL classic line.

R308, you mean, she hasn't?

R307, i am a fan of Mariah's but even I hate how her mannerisms got more campy after her peak ended. What is she doing with her eyes in that video?? This video also makes Whitney looks much older than her age. The crack pipe will do that to you.

Crack will age you worst than Meth. Meth just gives you bad skin because get so OCD constantly picking at it.

R311, honestly, I think Whitney aged a lot between her debut and I'm Your Baby Tonight. Maybe it was just the kind of clothing and wigs she wore. But in this video, she looks physically much older. She looks older than Madonna during the Ray of Light era (which is during this same time, I think) and Madonna is older than her.

Whitney always styled herself older. Look at the bodyguard era. She was only in her late 20s. But that crack aged whitney in the face. Whitney was beautiful and black don't crack that fast.

For me, Whitney really changed after the Bodyguard. The combination of the mammoth BG success + marrying Bobby + drug increase, she really started to freefall. I thought she looked a lot older by the time Waiting to Exhale came out. And her voice changed too. it was still good, but the sheen was coming off.

R314, yeah, it was less "bright" sounding and started to have a darker, huskier tone. Compare how she sounds on "How Will I Know" versus "Heartbreak Hotel". It's just staggering. Not bad, but a dramatic difference.

Oh, wow. I'd forgotten that THE BODYGUARD was the second highest-grossing film of 1992, after ALADDIN and above HOME ALONE 2. (Just looked it up.) I mean, I remember the film being a hit and "I Will Always Love You" playing constantly on the radio, but I didn't realize what a blockbuster it was. And the soundtrack was huge, too. Whitney was definitely on top of the world at the start of 1993.

R314, also, the fact that she toured all the time must have done damage to her voice. Mariah's voice was damaged during her peak years by releasing an album every year and being an extreme perfectionist. Allegedly, she did thousands (yes, thousands) of takes when recording Heartbreaker. That kind of constant abuse will surely do some damage as well.

R316 And the film was shit!

Whitney looked really old during the Preacher's Wife, and that horrid wig she wore didn't help.

Whitney's voice had several phases, the last few were of destruction. But for a long time she gained in artistry what she lost in sheen. But to a real fan, her voice was damaged during the Bodyguard era. Those songs were maybe not designed to be sung full out every night. She developed nodes which took away that top spin on her voice but for a few years added depth and a bit of character. She admitted herself that by the time of The Preacher's Wife she was using cocaine (crack) everyday. Changed her appearance and her voice. She really did clean up for much of the My Love is Your Love era and did her Dolce and Gabbana and blonde wig best to reinvent herself. It's a great album. Her resonance never left her - that sound of bells ringing, the full rich tone that shone throughout her range but most especially in her chest belts. Her beautiful head voice never left her, but the transitions got very rough.

Here she is, uncharacteristically singing with some lame dude - but sounding fab in the late nineties. All at Once was a difficult song for her by that time, but with shortened phrases, her voice is bright and brilliant as 10 years earlier. The whole performance is great. Whitney had a real vocal resurgence in 1999 and 2000. It came after the tour and pressure of MLIYL. She couldn't stay clean long enough. A voice doesn't disappear in a day. If she had stopped the pipe and the cigarettes she would sound better than Gladys Knight today. Darker timbre, great resonance and controlled power. Less range and elasticity but with her innate musicality and once in a lifetime tone. Whitney always sang with emotion and she always gave her best.

No one stays best forever. Streisand did not sound the same in 1980 as she did in 1965 either, and she didn't put herself out there for people to hear her. Whitney had all the gifts a singer could have and she knew how to sing. She was the very best there was for a very long time.

"You Give Good Love" and "Saving All My Love For You" are also classics that will remain over time, and are still played a LOT on "lite FM" type stations as well as "Quiet Storm" formats (those that still exist).

I like Whitney's more mature voice better, but this performance is amazing and charming and virtuous. Classic song. Singing the G5 with a closed mouth smile is pure showing off. She was subtle and coltish then - but nobody sings like this. Her voice was heaven. AND she was beautiful.

R319 incidentally, I thought that Denzel Washington looked his yummiest in PREACHER'S WIFE. For some reason, that gray suit/overcoat/fedora combo really became him.

Saw the doc again today, so very very hard not to feel heartsick for Cissy. She just looked so incredibly beat, devastated. Totally Broken. When she was say, 10 years younger I could see the animosity for her treatement of Robyn & Whitney. WOW but not today, not now. I know she did this film because it would be honest about Whitney from her incredible heights to her darkest days and her return to film.

Debra Chase Martin said it - Whitney returned to Alpharetta (sounded tinged with disdain to me) with nothing on the schedule for a bit. Man a small town mentality in a so so city would have been very stifling to her. Nothing but Church there. If she went back to NJ - it was mentioned elsewhere she was returning to rehab in NJ - def better but I really would think she would have been over the gossipy cousins. She def needed a new sober crowd of music & artists. I think she just didnt have money to either support her old lifestyle or family. So she stayed away. She was having a hard time selling her mansion it was so leveraged. That place would had a lot of ghosts but it would have been tremendously healing health wise. She still could have had a lot of DIFFERENT healthier company too.

No to feeling sorry for Cissy.

My God, r320. She was absolutely fabulous in the late 90s. Epitome of diva.

The thing about 320, even with the imperfections, is she effortlessly takes over the room with her fabulosity.. The thing that separates Whitney from people like Mariah Carey or Christina Aguilera is that she never tried too hard, it was just who she was.

R327 Whitney, unlike those two, actually could tour and fill seats. She was never the tour force that Madonna or Tina Turner are/were, but she could fill seats. They can't. Mariah was the poor man's Whitney. The very poor man's Whitney.

Yes that is what it was with Whitney - it was effortless. She was known as “One Take Houston” perfect intuitive interpretation that remain still the standard - flawless vocal expression that remain the HIGH BAR for perfection. In One Take. See: “Star Spangled Banner” “I Will Always Love You” and numerous other hits I am sure.

Hold up- The SSB was lipped. I know people don't want to believe it but it was lipped. Maybe she recorded it in one take. It is a great version- probably the best.

I loved her vocal take on IWALY because she was restrained until the end. The only vocal I have never liked of Celine's is the titanic song because it was restrained.

^^^ meant to say EVER liked

Whitney looked so stunning in the late '90s. She looked great in the It's Not Right (But It's Okay) video and all those Dolce and Gabbana costumes for the My Love is Your Love tour.

I remember seeing her on that tour and I think that was the last time we really saw Whitney holding it together. She looked beautiful and still sounded good but she was about to crack. Of course, this was documented in Can I Be Me? But it did appear like was clean for a bit.

^ nice

So....don't sleep on late 90s Whitney. Don't let people bury her too soon.

More late '90s Whitney singing the same song. Mannheim, Germany 1999. I love this version because it shows just how naturally dramatic she was. When she drops that handkerchief, you know she's ready to bring it. She was no dancer but she could grip the audience with just her presence.

R278. Many artists signature songs are actually covers:

'I Will Always Love You'. Associated with Whitney Houston. Written and originally recorded by Dolly Parton.

'The Greatest Love of All'. Associated with Whitney Houston. Written and originally recorded by George Benson.

'My Way'. Associated with Frank Sinatra. Originally recorded by Liza Minelli.

'Respect'. Associated with Aretha Franklin. Originally recorded by Otis Redding.

'Alfie'. Associated with Dionne Warwick. Originally recorded by Cilia Black.

'Midnight Train to Georgia'. Associated with Gladys Knight and the Pips. Written and originally recorded by Jim Weatherly as 'Midnight Plane to Houston'.

'Nothing Compares to You'. Associated with Sinead O'Connor. Written and originally recorded by Prince.

'Feeling Good'. Associated with Nina Simone. Originally performed by Cy Grant.

Tons of classics are covers.

Most of Whitney's signature songs are covers. Though she made them most famous, it makes her a little less iconic among her peers. and why hasn't anyone discussed the fact that "I wanna dance with somebody", & "How Will I know" are basically the same dam song.

Some are saying whitney look great so it was clear she cleaned herself up. One must remember being a junkie as a multimillionaire is not the same as being a regular, middle income person. You have access to the best of everything. but drugs catch up to everyone, especially crack.

This becomes a much more pleasant thread once you block the Madonna troll.

R339 this isn't the Whitney Houston fan page. We're allowed to have differing opinions.

[quote]'My Way'. Associated with Frank Sinatra. Originally recorded by Liza Minelli.

Actually, "My Way" was derived from the French song "Comme d'habitude." Just the tune, anyway. Paul Anka wrote the English lyrics (which are not a translation) and gave it to Sinatra to sing, which pissed off his record company.

You're probably thinking of "New York, New York," which was written specifically for Liza for the film of the same name.

R340 Thank you! He is just triggered by Madonna when I spent most of this thread defending Whitney and damning her enablers.

I posted earlier on this thread- I love Whitney- terrible tragedy her demise and lost talent- Her Star Spangle Banner was superb. My one quibble with her voice is that she does not have than smooth timbre through her entire register. It changes. He mid register vocal tone and belt is the the best. To my mind, what makes Aretha, Barbra and Judy stand out at their best is that their vocal tone (timbre) remains constant, throughout the range and dynamics of their voices. Their head voices are the same as when they sing from the chest.

R343 could you explain in layman's terms? I'm very curious what you meant.

Don't ask charlie to analyze voices. Anyone who thinks that Judy Garland's voice was better than Whitney Houston's knows nothing about vocal production or singing.

R278 Whitney made those songs her own.

She didn't owned them she butchered those songs

R337 Most of Whitney's signature songs are covers. Though she made them most famous, it makes her a little less iconic among her peers.

I totally agree

MOST of her songs are covers? No. The only ones I can think of off the top of my head are The Greatest Love of All, I Will Always Love You and I'm Every Woman.

I think the keyword was 'signature' songs.

R349, I know, even then, most of her signature songs WERE NOT covers.

r348, Saving all my Love 4 You is a cover as well.

It was better than I expected, though I would have like more concert or performance footage.

Not too nice towards the gays, though. They keep indicting Robyn as some predatory dyke. And seemingly blame all Whitney's woes on being molested by Dee Dee Warwick. Indicating her fatal support of her marriage to BB was attempt to erase her trauma, and finally be "normal".

[quote]Not too nice towards the gays, though. They keep indicting Robyn as some predatory dyke. And seemingly blame all Whitney's woes on being molested by Dee Dee Warwick. Indicating her fatal support of her marriage to BB was attempt to erase her trauma, and finally be "normal".

Shame on Kevin Macdonald and producers of this docu

There is nothing about this movie that tells you anything new that you couldn't have read in some tabloid or Wikipedia.

I’m Every Woman. Chaka Khan. Whitney Houston delivers once again.

R354 If you are breathing you are lying. Obviously you haven’t seen this documentary.

Indeed the info that DeeDee Warwick assaulted her is quite new. The context of social upheaval was brand new and remarkable informative. Whitney’s interactions with Robyn, her mother the jokes were remarkable. The titular reveal was watching Krissi admiring and longingly looking at Whitney as she preps between sets. So many other scenes - Whitney in a moment with Joey...

You are ridiculous and clueless.

If you block R353, 354 also disappears... such a hater.

R357 Such a lover of fake docus and you probably think Robyn was a predatory lesbian as this docu suggests and also Whitney was never gay she was just confused because of the abuse she experienced as a child as the docu and it's producers and director telling the audience

R356 abuse was already discussed look up the old DL threads no mention of Dee Dee of course but many people had the question if Whitney was abused as a child or not

- if Whitney was abused as a child or not and the abuse was the root of her addiction and depression

'Whitney: Can I Be Me' is less beholden to the narratives and perspectives that different family members try to impose. Whitney’s brother’s opinion of Robyn Crawford, for example, is clearly absolutely nothing like the truth. In my opinion we get a much clearer picture of that reality in ‘Can I Be Me’. And why interview Bobby Brown at all when he is so clearly in denial and not enlightening in any way?

Low key Whitney with a legitimate cold. (there's a difference) All the confidence and joy in the world. Playing with the band and the back-ups = blissful.

[quote]Hold up- The SSB was lipped. I know people don't want to believe it but it was lipped. Maybe she recorded it in one take. It is a great version- probably the best.

R330 if you watched the movie, you'd know that she recorded it the day before IN ONE TAKE after hearing the new arrangement played back just once.

It's also been common knowledge since it occurred that she recorded it the day before at the request of the producers just in case as a precaution. But it was still a live recording done in one take.

It is funny Whitney had the image of "America's Sweetheart" even before she was busted for drug use. She could be very defensive in her interviews. I think some of it is partly due to anxiety.

I don't like the way you guys speak of her in the past tense.

R364 I hate to break it to you.........

Three things re Whitney's SSB:

1. No, she was not singing live, but she was lipping to a live recording. That wasn't her request though, it was a common practice of the NFL. It's actually rare to have anyone sing it live during major national events because no organizer wants the national anthem to be ruined by a screaming audience or gust of wind or audio problem or a singer just having a bad day. The NFL and even presidential inaugural committees typically ask performers to use a prerecorded track. In fact, the NFL demands the recording in advance so they can approve it. The NFL was especially sensitive about this performance because it was during the Gulf War.

2. The NFL didn't like Whitney's version (too jazzy and slow for them) and tried to get her to re-record a more traditional arrangement. She refused.

3. The huge response led Arista to release it as a single. Whitney donated all her proceeds to charities supporting military families. They released it again after the 9/11 attacks and Whitney again donated the proceeds to NYPD and FDNY charities.

^ Forgot to add, this was also not long after Roseanne's trashy SSB at a MLB game and people were still seething about that.

Rare live version at the SuperBowl and it was bad. Why the fuck the NFL would trust Christina Aguilera, who never met a song she couldn't butcher live with her screaming, with an a cappella version who knows. But she was widely panned for messing up the lyrics, losing her breath, changing key and screeching.

[R230] Here Whitney is singing at George Michael AIDS Benefit Concert in the UK. So she did show support.

Of course Whitney cared. Whitney was love. Until her addiction took over her life, she did a great number of charitable appearances.

R368 One concert....well, wasn't she just the saviour of the gays, believed nobody as she died in her shit bath

Gay Pride 1999. Sit down in your shit bath R369. I'll pray for you.

r367, LOL. Roseanne been cray for years now. I now forgot all about that stunt.

Whitney supported HIV/AIDS organizations such as GMHC and AmFAR for decades. Her children's organization assisted children living with cancer and AIDS as well.

Thanks for that clip r371. She is really digging those club mixes. Wish she did a full-on dance album.

The song she never sang live. Except a few times...

[quote]Until her addiction took over her life, she did a great number of charitable appearances.

I'm sorry to sound naive, but I have had no exposure to drugs nor druggies. Do people really change drastically, like go from loving/generous to cruel/selfish? That seems like quite a personality shift.

Honey, you don't need drugs to go from loving/generous to cruel/selfish.

Every man I've dated was like that.

Whitney Houston - Look Into Your Heart

from 1994 album A Tribute To Curtis Mayfield

Thanks for posting that one R378, I remember when it came out. She could feel a song like few others could. Great job on an old Curtis Mayfield classic.

Aretha did an amazing job on that tribute album as well with The Makings of You as well.

R350 I know, even then, most of her signature songs WERE NOT covers.

Name her signature songs.

Didn't We Almost Have it All....

My favorite.

The Live version eclipsed the studio recording. That was very common with Whitney.

Late ‘90s There’s Music in You on the Rosie O’Donnell Show.

Anyone remember when she hosted snl. Whitney had great comedic timing. The woman was truly multitalented.

Full Diva mode in early ‘90s introduced by DL icon Cousin Dionne.

Thanks for that R371. I was there for that and it makes me happy to see it again and sad ‘cause she’s gone.

Whitney never hosted SNL, though she was funny in this MCG skit.

WhenIi read the stories of Whitney spending entire days in a darkened bedroom pleasuring herself with dildos, i thought, "I can relate."

R388, what?

Good article on Madonna and Whitney

R350 most of her signature songs WERE NOT covers.

. Saving All My Love for You

. The Greatest Love of All

. All the Man That I Need

. I Will Always Love You

. I'm Every Woman

. I Believe in You and Me

. Step by Step

All covers

Gays have enemies. They lurk in gilded closets. Outing is healthy. You are either with or against us. You decide.

I watched it. She was very beautiful and talented and she seemed often nice to people. She was smarter than people give her credit for and I thought she was often very clever in interviews. But she was also a hopeless addict and quite stupid about give drugs control to ruin everything.

Live Star Spangled Banner performance:

Fuck, forgot the link:

It's lip synced not live

sorry it's another performance oops

I thought the Super Bowl performance was lip synched?

Do you people even read???? She lip synched to her own performance she did the day before in ONE FUCKING TAKE!

Even if it was lyp synched theres no autotune or voice manipulation. Her vocals aren't overproduced; thats her raw natural voice. The woman had pipes.

R400, yup, like R399 said, she did it in one take. She was amazing. I just wish it didn't take her until the late 90s to start singing great material that was on par with her great voice.

Unfortunately by the late 90's that great voice was largely gone.

I cannot figure out why Clive/Arista and/or her estate haven’t mined her back catalog. What happened to the proposed deluxe editions of “Whitney” and “The Bodyguard” albums that were advertised back in 2012? Only one “Best Of” has been released since her death by Clive. Is her Estate/Patricia Houston blocking this? Who’s in charge of her estate?

Pat Houston's only interest is in denigrating her sister in law. Why Cissy allowed this woman to gain this kind of power is beyond me.

R403 didn't it sell poorly?

R404 really? There were only 2 choices: ATL SIL or NJ SIL. You dont understand that? Pat had been her close confidant since early 2000’s, had made her one of her spokespersons and had helped raise her daughter. NJ SIL was busy managing Whitney & Nippy Inc - what was left of it AND taking care of Cissy.

Pat didnt understand the PR that much, her projects have mostly been fine - Familh Houston was Catastrophe but was entered into with good faith as means to distract her daughter from the much worse. It was awful and didnt work.

By the way who are you, a grasping cousin wanting to get yr hands on the Crown Jewels yrself? Meh - so many “experts” after the fact.

R406 This is a Whitney thread, if you want to sing the praises of the jealous hateful heifer Pat, go make a thread about her. Anyone that would say in a docu about the woman she claimed to love that her daughter hated her and wanted to kill her, is not a person looking out for Whitney's best interests. She has done nothing but talk bad about her since her death. She is vile and so are you for taking up for her.

What does cousin Thelma think about all this?

^^^^Cousin Thelma thinks: (1) I ain't her cousin, and (2) Pat Houston is a lowdown, greedy heifer.

I agree with everything R4 posted. Rest in peace Whitney and Bobbi Christina.

[R388], I hope you do not do it while high on coke/crack, or meth?

For you R388 and R389. Does anyone remember those rumors years ago, before she married Bobby Brown, about Whitney and her assistant Robin? There was a lot of quite open talk in gossip columns about their 'relationship' at the time. and if she swings both ways, who gives a shit anyway?

Source: perezhilton.com

If you thought the Whitney Houston drug scandal of 2006 could not get any better, you were wrong!

In a shocking interview last week, The National Enquirer revealed in graphic detail - pictures included - Houston's cracked out mess of a life.

Now, this week's cover shouts, "Bobby Brown's Sister Reveals....Drug Crazed Witney's SECRET GAY LIFE."

Brilliant!!!

And, spreading it all out over two weeks was inspired.

Paying Tina Brown a reported $200,000 was well worth every penny!

According to The Enquirer, when Whitney is high on crack, she "takes part in lesbian sex, chases any man who comes into her house, and locks herself for hours on end in her bathroom to use her vast collection of sex toys."

SO HOT!!!

Tina Brown says that it's common knowledge among family members that Whitney has affairs with women.

And, Houston's appetite to pleasure her pu$$y is so powerful that she has a massive collection of sex toys to pleasure herself.

"They are all around the damn house," says Tina. "I'm constantly having to get them up. I don't want the kids to find them."

Whitney loves her "toys" a lot and loves to spend quality time with them, claims Brown.

"She locks herself in the bathroom and you hear the 'Vrooom!'," says Tina. "She smokes some crack and says, 'I gotta go.' You know what she's gonna do. It's constant. She be in there for hours, and then I have to call out, 'You all right?' She'll say, 'Yeah,' and she can't talk. Her voice is so hoarse.

I find it strange how people criticise Pat but don't namecheck Gary in the same breath. Is addiction a get out of jail free card when it comes to behaviour?

Here is Pat talking shit about Whitney and Krissy.

Poor Whitney.

WTF with r406's post?

All of the Houstons are vipers. All of them. Except Whitney and Bobbi Kristina. They really didn't have a chance.

R405: I don’t know the sales figures of the 2012 Best Of. I just bought it last week and there was an insert inside that was promoting the upcoming deluxe editions of her 2nd album and the Bodyguard soundtrack, neither ever happened.

I Wish You Love: More From The Bodyguard is available on Spotify

Sounds like classic kitchen table talk to me. Whitney and Bobby WERE bad parents (I expect Bobby still is). Pat doesn't actually say those words in that clip. She references behaviour and actions. There are no lies in what she said.

It's quite strange that her daughter would "accidentally" upload that convrrsation. She may be in college but she's not all that bright.

Let's put Pat's secrets out for public perusal and see how she responds.

Pat? Isn't that a man's name?

Whitney singing with her brother.

Whitney Houston and her brother Gary.

Whitney was in rough shape for that two night HBO concert in 1997. I remember it well. One of the first times the public wondered out loud if she was in deep trouble. She would be in much better shape for most of the My Love is Your Love Era. Whitney had a real resurgence in her health and singing in 1999 and 2000 too. Pretty much all downhill after that, though she lived another 12 messed up years.

She did sing the Warwick and Diana Ross tributes quite poorly, though Whitney was never really bad. She sang a dark and soulful version of Abraham, Martin and John that night that made my mom cry. I didn't know that song then, just a kid. We all loved Whitney though. She was a stunning talent.

Why did her brothers keep saying they were "poor" and "ghetto" in the movie when their cousin Dionne Warwick was a MAJOR recording star in the '60s? Didn't Miss Solid Gold give them any money?

I don't think she has the voice to sing Diana Ross songs. Ross' has a voice clear as a flute and Whitney's has an earthy dark quality to it. Very different vocalists, very different singing styles. Whitney could do Aretha but not Diana.

R423 Whitney sang that the night after Columbine in concert as well, substituting one of the victims names in the chorus.

Almost every Whitney performance was like a scene in a movie.....she's high on something here, looks strange and magical - but not like the girl on award shows. She plays with the song and the audience and her band....self indulgent as fuck. Try to look away.

Your Love I Remember Forever... Whitney was something else.

When wasn't she high?

[quote][R423] Whitney sang that the night after Columbine in concert as well, substituting one of the victims names in the chorus.

Let me guess -- Isaiah Shoels, the only black victim of the massacre.

Whitney Houston was it.

After watching some of her peak performances in this thread, the thought of her untimely death still feels like a punch in the stomach just like it did in 2012. Heartbreaking.

Rest in Peace.

I watched the PR cleaners hit the Whitney threads in LSA after she passed too. Made the gay go away.

LSA doesn't need cleaners. Plenty of homophobes there (like racists here) to shut conversation down on what they don't want discussed.

I saw the documentary. All I heard was Laurel.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

R435 Who cares about sharing this news? He was a low life who dealt her drugs.

Just finished watching the documentary about Whitney. In the 90s-00s I owned a high end furniture store in ATL. Had a lot of celebrity clients who would trade in things/ask for payment plans and such and even pawn really expensive pieces when hard up for $$$. Got to know Nippy real well. At first she bought a lot of things. Then around 06-07, she started asking for trade and then to pawn the pieces for quick cash. It got so bad that she asked me for a 50,000 personal loan and said she’d give me her first Grammy and Emmy awards to hold until she could pay me back. I told her I didn’t have that kind of money to loan. She never came back. About a year after she died, Pat called me to see if I had any of her things to sell back to the estate, which I did. So sad, Nippy at her best was funny, caring, and the smartest person in the room.

She must have had money, if Krissy was getting 2 million a year after Whitney died.

At 438 Pat was the reason for Krissy having a trust fund. Whitney let Pat and Cissy and good lawyers take control of her finances early on, then she got so bad into drugs, that she was borrowing money and selling anything she could to get her fix. Pat had to take care of a lot of debts to keep problems out of the press, in the beginning. Eventually, it wasn’t enough and Whitney was broke- I was also told there was a lot of mismanagement from some business managers in the early 2000s that left Nippy almost broke other than what was put into trust for Bobbi Kris.

That is a sad story you tell R437, but I have to remind you that she owned at least 3 properties, had many storage units full of furniture and possessions. I believe the documentary made it clear that her father began stealing millions when Robyn left and he could claim “management” over her estate.

I am very glad that you spoke of her intelligence, it seems pretty clear that she was an incredibly smart, articulate woman. Its so sad that few People realized that about her.

R440 Nippy was incredibly smart; business and street smarts that she wrapped in a laugh, look, or song. When she could be herself, she radiated peace and light. I knew she had a lot of back taxes on her homes at some point and when she divorced Bobby, she declared less than 10 million in assets, a big drop from what she once had I imagine. Met Robyn once with Whitney. Robyn was very gentle and protective of her, but could make you laugh easily. I knew they had something special. Too bad they couldn’t carry on.

Bump

A bit of the documentary.