Men.com To Begin Including Bisexual Scense

bugger, I meant "scenes "

Punch and delete him. He's short, has a small dick and an ugly face.

Stop the presses.

Love Arad. Beautiful man.

And good on him trying out with a girl. He’s a porn ‘actor’ after all. They don’t always have to enjoy the sex like we don’t always enjoy our work even though we get up every morning,

He's gay but doing this for money. I don't see a problem with him acting.

and Arad is 1 of the hottest porn actors.

If he's a gay pornstar he ain't gay. ...he's bi

He's gay but doing this for money.

How do you mean? If he is gay he can just say no I'm gay I don't want to have sex with a woman and do a gay scene for the same amount of money.

Anyway he isn't gay., posters on twitter have said he has sex with women in his private life.

ALL gay pornstars are bi these days do keep up.

Going into porn is a bad life choice anyway, I hope he doesn't go off the rails

Op, Porn stars don’t have hang ups like you

The feature stories about his escape from Iran describe him as gay, but whatever.

R10 - They probably also don't live long either.

WTF? The company is literally called “Men.” Yet if I watch one of their videos, a woman might pop up. No, thank you.

R13. Lol its all in the interests of 'diversity'.

No thanks

Awesome! About time! Now make sure the chicks are hot and the dudes are mainstream masculine.

About time American male porn studios catch on. Brazilian and Eastern Euro porn has been huge into bi porn for decades.

Love to see a man having real sex vis-a-vis gay sex

🔥🔥🔥

Real sex?

The times have changed

No thanks

No pussy. Never.

No more Men.com, either, if there is any risk I'll run into pussy while I'm there. Bah!

I’m here for it! Just get hot Instagram fitness model type talent!

I’m pro-bi dudes, so cool.

Nothing against bi porn but it does seem symptomatic of today's obsession with being diverse. No doubt all male porn is considered too misogystic.

[quote]I don't see a problem with him acting.

Well, I do. If straight porn companies are not subjecting its consumers to MMF porn, why should gay porn companies do that? One after another?

Deplorable. So of course it'll sell like hot cakes.

And no, this isn't the same as a straight guy saying the same thing about his favourite performer shooting a gay scene. For obvious reasons.

[quote]So of course it'll sell like hot cakes.

I doubt it. CF was once the queen of gay porn studios, but as soon as they started pushing their straight scenes, it seems they've lost market space. I don't know if there's a causal link, but it does seem they've lost ground to the likes of Sean Cody, for example. Studies are very clear that gay men can't stay as hard for straight or bi porn as we do for gay porn, so it's only to be expected that scenes with females will sell less to a gay public.

Corbin has a lack of hot talent

No matter how talented the actors, straight porn will never sell well with gay men.

Well bi men are an increasing segment of the market, so it’s great business acumen and in tune with the times

So there's going to be those annoying fake moanings. Gurl...bye!!!

And fake nails, fake tits, and fake hair, R33. And LAYERS of makeup.

Women repulse me sexually but porn women are disgusting on a whole different level.

He should bottom instead of going over to the dark side.

He must never bottom. He’s an Alpha

With the majority of their performers being G4P, most of their directors straight men or lesbians and their stupid plots, borrowed from their parent company Mindgeeks straight studios, MEN already makes some of the worst gay porn out there. Trust, that if they do this, they will somehow be able to make it both homophobic and misogynistic.

I sometimes watch bi porn. My favorite is when one of the guys has his right by the dick going in to the girl (or reverse and it’s the girl with her mouth on the dick going in). I don’t think this will be profitable with gay men but I bet there are some straight guys who would enjoy it

Gay porn seems dead set on being heterosexual, what's gays porns and it's porns performer's obsession with sex with women? 2018 and gay men are still self-loathing queers idolizing straight men and heterosexuality? Pathetic, no wonder Trump won; how can you ask anyone to respect you when you don't even respect yourselves.

Mary in the photo is truly bi-sexual: she has sex with both men and dudes!

I hope it's nice bi porn and they aren't grabbing the lady by the neck.

I gue he didn't post it that pic on his viible IG becuse he understand it may not be well received....

I like him and I assume he is full homosexual, he scaped from Iran for that reason. If you ask me, I'm not excited about him doing a woman. It may have a negative effect on me. It's not like heterosexual porn actors all of a sudden fuck men on camera. Why woa uld supposedly gay men would have to try women?

Men.com.pluswomen.tv

Isn’t he a refugee from Iran?

If he wants to do that fine. If you don't like it, don't watch it.

I don’t care who omnisexual whores fuck for money, but the domain “men.com” does seem rather too specific to include women in its brothel. That’s just confusing marketing, like if “drugstore.com” sold cars or if “cookies.com” sold enema and syphilis home test kits.

Love the fluidity

Then call it Fluids.com, not men.com.

No thanks

Straight For Pay!

Nope

They need to recruit hot new masculine talent

^^^yes but keep the women away.

I’m all in for hot chicks too.

R54. Are you bi?

There is a huge generation gap. The stereotypical oldhead gays really have a problem with bisexuality. They are threatened by it. Younger bi/gay guys are cool with it, often attracted to it. I think it’s hot.

Additionally, having bi content makes it easier to recruit hot mainstream guys. A lot of prospective recruits have a hard time agreeing to do gay porn but are more open to bi scenes. It’s a good way to get hot guys who otherwise are qeasy about totally gay porn. Other studios also have used bi content to get hotter dudes.

There are been some smokin hot guys who only did bi scenes for Corbin Fisher and other studios. Without the bi option, they nerver would have been with a guy on camera.

[quote]Well bi men are an increasing segment of the market,

If YOU say so, R32, it must be a fact.

Let me guess....he'll bareback the women and use a condom for the gays. That worked out well for Arpad Miklos didn't it? He got slammed online for being a homophobe, his career died and he killed himself.

R60, stop the histrionics dude

Fk U

I love the reactions of the posters, I don't have any problem with this, sometimes I watch bi porn

R61 can't handle facts like most deps.

Chill r64

r56, not really true, 40 years ago Jack Wrangler was supposedly gay and did straight porn, he even went of to marry a woman because he could never live a gay life, well that pretty much says all their needs to be said about that.

But 20 years ago Blake Harper another supposedly gay man did some homophobic bi porn and 10 years ago Blake Riley made that anti-gay conversion porn movie.

And now Arad another supposedly gay guy is going to do the same thing.

Straight worship has always been very popular in gay porn, it's nothing new. Internalized homophobia, self-loathing straight worship and aspirational heterosexuality / bisexuality have always been present in gay cultured. You r56 and your generation are no different than any other self-loathing straight worshiping gay guy, you just call it fluidity and think it's trendy.

It's funny years ago when gay men complained about homophobia in gay porn they were told to shut up and stop being so PC, it's porn, porn isn't suppose to be PC. Now when gay men complain about homophobia in gay porn they are told they are bipobic and transphobic and heteropboic and sexist and to be more tolerant and PC.

Good for them, I’m not biphobic.

To hell with the homosexist hater who started this thread.

As long as everyone is hot, I’m all for it!

I don't have a problem with bisexuality. This, however, is a different situation. As far as we know, Arad is gay and he precisely left Iran risking his own life because, as a gay man, there was no hope for him there. It is natural, as a viewer, to feel some disappointment in this act because directly or indirectly it feels like disregarding homosexual sex, it feels like forcing gay man into sex acts our nture hasn't made us for like in older times. Heterosexual porn actors never have to try sex with other men.

I don't know if Arad really wants to hve sex with a woman, but this time I'm with all those don't see this with good eyes.

It doesn’t mean he’s going to bang women in his private life if he’s not bi. You think all the female Porn stars who did girl on girl scenes are bi? It’s their job

I'll be directing most of them!

[quote]There is a huge generation gap. The stereotypical oldhead gays really have a problem with bisexuality. They are threatened by it. Younger bi/gay guys are cool with it, often attracted to it. I think it’s hot.

r56, that's great that the younger generation is so evolved. Just a few questions:

1 - Is your generation also encouraging straight porn sites to include non-straight sex? Or is it just gay men who have to accept women and transmen (which is also happening) into their porn?

2 - Obviously there is a market for bisexual porn. No one is saying any different. But is there any reason that bisexual scenes have to appear on a gay site? Surely there is enough demand to launch a separate bisexual site.

3 - Do you find it at all ironic that the position of people like yourself is to tell gay men to just accept the presence of women in porn that is, in theory, created to cater to them? Regardless of whether or not they want it, they must accept it, is that right? But guess what? Actual gay men are not sexually attracted to women, that's kind of the whole point. Hence the objection to being told their wishes will be disregarded, even in their own porn. Or do you simply not believe that gay men should be allowed to have their own porn, separate and apart from all other categories?

If you are allergic to women in porn, stick with all male studios. There are still plenty out there. Stop whining about bi scenes when the solution is view content more to your liking.

They're still all gay. Bi my ass.

r73, again, this is bisexual porn being placed on a supposed gay porn site.

Out of curiosity, do you go on straight porn blogs and tell straight men they should just get over it and start having gay and bi scenes shown on their sites?

If people like yourself are interested in bisexual porn then clearly that means there's a market for it. So, have at it, go and enjoy. What many gay men are wondering is what this has to do with us? Why is it being forced on us when we are telling you that we are not interested?

Used to follow him on Instagram and he use to like sexual pics of women so I’m guessing he’s at least bisexual so this isn’t surprising. I don’t know why Mindgeek even bothers with gay porn if they’re gonna turn them straight. I wouldn’t be surprised if SC is the next one to do this.

Nothing on his twitter or instagram about this. Bi porn is a tiny market. CF straight scenes get universally low ratings.

Maybe he'll be lucky and he'll be converted and he'll be able to go home to Iran, maybe that's why he is doing it.

One thing I don’t understand is why? Why do a bisexual movie if your so gay and the whole reason for escaping Iran was to be able to be gay? I’m pretty certain that if he wasn’t able to have sex with women then they probably wouldn’t even ask him right? And can’t porn stars turn down people or scenes they don’t want to do? So him accepting to do this makes me believe he is at least somewhat bisexual.

R78 I can only imagine the affects this is going to have on his psyche being a man who fled because he was gay to fucking women in porn

How long does it take from filming to it being released?

I love the make fluidity movement!

The male fluidity movement

Re-read what he told.

[quote] And fake nails, fake tits, and fake hair, [R33]. And LAYERS of makeup.

At first I thought you were talking about the guys, but then I realized they don't use fake nails.

Three years ago, he claimed to be gay:

[Quote] Are you gay, straight, or bi? Single or taken?

[Quote] Gay and single.

Fans are discussing it on his IG but he hasn't commented.

Sooooo...... everyone in gay porn is Bi or Straight? Lame!

There was a fair bit of bi porn in the 90s.. La Rue liked to make it, for one. It didn't seem to sell that well, though. The gay porn world is relatively small, so the kinks of one or two directors can have a significant impact. Remember when all the spitting started?

Arad is Boss

All the hot ones, r68

If the reason straight guys so gay porn is because there is no money for guys in straight or bi porn, then why would a gay man do bi or straight porn? If there is no monetary advantage then one must assume he is doing ti because he enjoys the sexual experience of sex with women and they why not carry that over into his private life?

Anyone "gay" identifying porn model who does bi or straight or trans porn is not gay, they are bi or pansexual. No question anyone who believes differ is being naive.

The sexual orienttion of self-indentified heterosexual men who do gay porn is reasonably under question. But when we talk about regular heterosexul men who do heterosexual porn they never have to fuck other men on cam.

Men get more money per scene for gay porn, but there's far, far more scenes in straight porn, so I've always felt the G4P argument doesn't have a lot going for it, unless an individual just want to make the most cash in as few scenes as possible. For bisex scenes, I imagine the models are usually just nagged into it by studios/directors (Chi Chi La Rue loved 'encouraging' (i.e. borderline coercing) gay performers into bisexual or straight scenes).

The G4P myth is only believed by deluded gay porn addicts who want to believe a straight dude is attainable

Shifting Gears ruined ChiChi's career.

R94 I’ve always believed that most of them were actually bi if only a little bit. You can’t really force somebody into doing something they can’t. I feel like the directors/studios know that they are somewhat bi and that’s why they chose them. Plus aren’t performers able to turn down scenes and who they perform with.

One thing I still don’t understand is why? Why is he doing this and why not a gay4pay actor? It makes me think the angle they’re going for is going to be str8 4 pay and make a big deal of him fucking a woman.

Will we get interviews from Arad like those two idiots in Shifting Gears? ChiChi had the two Gold Star Gays who fucked women for the first time in that video proclaim how much they both enjoyed it and planned to have more heterosexual action in their private lives. One of the guys said his new fantasy was him with 4 or 5 girls, no men at all.

Will Arad be making these same claims now?

Who cares dude!? Let him do him.

So will any of the guys in Men's gay side flip over to the bi side? There are plenty of admitted bi guys there doing gay porn. Maybe we'll see Johnny Rapid doing bi porn. How about Paddy O'Brian? Maybe Connor Maguire? Who do you think will do gay and bi porn at Men?

William Seed

Paddy O-Brian

Adam Ramzi

Dirk Caber

Ryan Bones

The big stars

Adam Ramzi has already done straight porn.

The idea all you need it so to have sex with a woman and your turned bi or straight is deeply offensive.

WHERE is the Adam Ramzi straight porn at?

He posted one pic that he said was from a femdom photo set. Did it ever get released? Was there actual sex filmed? He got all pissy and said it was just pictures and that he was gay, gay, gay.

Adam Ramzi is a perfect example of an aspirational heterosexual self-loathing gay guy. He wrote a couple of straight worship articles for a gay blog and received a backlash and was called anti-gay which he seemed to take a lot of pride in.

Link?

And link to his straight porn?

Some of the same older guys who fuck the boiz on Mormon Boiz fuck the girls on their str8 site (Mission Girlz?) and never use condoms on either site.

r101, I don't know if he used the same name but Paddy has appeared in some low rent straight porn. I saw one on the tubes a little while back, it wasn't that great. I really wish these gay4pay/bi guys would move over into bi/straight porn, they're like an unwanted rash you can't get rid of. I completely lose interest when I know a guy is into women.

Back in the early 90s, in my experience, local video rental stores (college town) would stock bi porn but not gay porn. On a bi porno there seemed to be one all-male scene, which had to satisfy until I discovered legit adult bookstores with all-gay content. I had forgotten how crappy that situation was until this thread. Reminiscing over.

I don't want to see bisexual scenes. I don't want to see them at men.com. I imagine bi porn's being done so much better someplace else, but there's so much other gay content that if I have to write off men.com, so be it.

Dirk Caber is bi or straight in the same sense that I am the queen of Romania.

They need to have some of these hot guys get pegged by women.

No pegging

So much homophobia in these comments. Sad.

Interesting how men who have sex with women = masculine and attractive; while gay men = inferior and unattractive.

Between the bis and the trans its going to become more difficult to find uniquely gay entertainment. Its a slow moving train to push us back and wipe us out.

Most male porn stars are bi anyway. Big deal

r119, true, but most of the men consuming the porn are gay and, therefore, not particularly interested in having women in their porn.

Is gay porn for the consumer, who is gay by definition, or the so-called “stars?”

Some of you seem a bit confused on this point, much like “Men”.com.

I don't know if this represents a large portion of us but what frustrates some of us is the symbolism behind making an openly and self-idenified gay man have sex with a woman. It reminds of the times when homosexual men were socially pressured to have sex with women. In way it puts homosexuality under question again. If Arad had stated from the beginning that he was bisexual it would be a different story.

We can agree it is simply porn, but I bet for homosexual men who have grown up being shamed for liking the same sex seeing to men having sex and even exhanching love means a little more for us.

Please stop discussing us! We do NOT want tons and tons of free publicity! STOP IT!!!!

R124, I am with you 100%. I find nothing positive or uplifting about a gay man having sex with a woman on camera. Porn is all fake and lots of performers play against their natural sexual orientation, but a gay man who has come out already is done “exploring” and shouldn’t have anything to prove with fucking a woman. It’s not (delightfully) transgressive as with “G4P” or “straight” guys; it’s demeaning and, yes, homophobic. Not erotic, not entertaining. Insulting, in fact.

Even worse is that this is just the very beginning of this for Mendotcom. They aren't going to stop with just this one.

>And fake nails, fake tits, and fake hair, [[R33]]. And LAYERS of makeup.

I assumed we were talking about Rafael Alencar. There also seems to be a lot of Men.com shills here.

Is is just exploitation of internalized homophobia and trying to make a profit from it. Arad ,being gay person in this, is just bottom of the barrel scum.

R101 Men.com already hinted they wanted do BI sex when a "gay scene" started with Connor Maguire fking a woman. Now they go the next step and say an openly gay guy will fk a woman. I just dont get why? Straight and BI scenes are less profitable for the men, thats why we see so much G4$. Also, some of you think being BI means having threesomes all the time. Bi ppl can enjoy straight and gay sex without being a threesome, so the market it not rly for BI ppl specifically. And BTW, he said he would do a BI scene, but that can mean MMF OR FFM, just hope man.com knows not to fk it up even further.

R124 yes! I don’t know how they could possibly think this shit would be erotic when it’s demeaning gay sex. And arad is nothing but a coon. Self hating and self destructive this is gonna come back and bite him and the ass in more ways than one.

R124 it just proves that they know nothing and don’t care about they’re gay audience. How could they not see something like this as being humiliating and homophobic. All are lives we’ve been told that gay sex was wrong and sinful and that we can change and a porn company that’s made for are pleasure is doing the same. The funny thing is that most of the guys who think this isn’t a problem are bisexuals and or self hating.

What I’m still wondering is why? It’s not like they are going to make big money or the scene is going to be popular. They are a disgusting company and arad looks like a dirty druggie who should have stayed in Iran.

Why do his eyes look soulless? He looks like he’s been through some things.

When do you think were going to get a scene preview?

He’s obviously not completely gay if he’s doing this and he’s not really a loss. His scenes are boring, no charisma the only thing he’s got going for him is his body but even then half the time I can’t tell if he’s muscular or bloated. And in certain angles or lighting he starts to look like a rat.

I wonder if this is going to kill his porn career? Surely he’ll lose fans right?

Blake Harper, Arpad Mikos and Blake Riley are three self-identified GAY Men who did straight/bisexual scenes and it killed all of their careers. Arpad's had such a negative effect on his that he killed himself. (Yeah, yeah, other factors, of course, but...)

I'm wondering how Men.com is going to have be the "plot" of these scenes. This studio comes up with some sort of plot in all of their scenes. God forbid, but will they set the scene as a gay man deciding to try heterosexual sex for the first time? A straight seduction?

This is revolting.

If Men.com think that this is going to start a new "Straight For Pay" craze, they might look back at history.

In 2009, Chi Chi LaRue proclaimed, "I have created Straight-For-Pay!" with that Blake Riley movie. Well, Blake's career died immediately afterwards and Chi Chi did not have any more Str8-4-Pay releases.

Same year, Arpad Miklos filmed a bareback heterosexual scene for Jake Cruise's Str8 Guys 4 Gay Eyes line (even though he only wore condoms with men). Arpad's career nosedives after his gay male audience largely rejects him. He takes his life three years later.

In 2010, Ricky Sinz said he was jumping on the Str8-4-Pay gimmick and was creating a whole website based on famous actual gay porn stars having sex with women. Never got off the ground.

And further back in history, bisexual VHS and DVDs always sold poorly.

European sites have lots of bi scenes but never with "famous" gay porn stars and certainly not with self-identified-as-gay porn stars.

Does Men.com actually think they are going to succeed with this "untapped" market?

I’m not going to penalize a whore for taking a paycheck, what kind of hypocrite does that? But I’ll never watch another “Men”.com video again on any platform. Fuck them. I boycott Michael Lucas and I can boycott them too.

When will these guys learn? Tons of these porn guys will do gay/bi/trans/straight porn, and no one bats an eye because they have the common sense to say they are bi/gay4pay up front.

The problem lies with these men who want to do bi and straight porn while still claiming to be gay. As r132 rightly states, gay men, due to our experiences, will feel 'betrayed' in a way. Point is, if you know that you are into women don't lie and say you are gay because it will cause problems in the long run for your gay porn career.

DL is much more professional old school gay activist than the overall real world bi and straight population. It is also lopsided American. As such, bi and fluid porn has much more appeal to bi and gay men globally

I know. For some reason, older white gay men are insecure about bi and fluid men and sexuality. I’m trying to understand why, but I think it’s a generational and cultural disconnect.

r140/r141, I'm neither white nor American and I object to this.

As r132 wrote, gay men have been told we are on the wrong side of the sexual spectrum our entire lives. And now we have to hear shit not just from straight people but also bi/fluid people as well. We are being branded as close-minded and bigoted for not being interested in women or trans. We are basically being reprimanded for daring to be what we are: homosexual, and all that entails, i.e. an exclusive sexual attraction to the same sex.

No one is saying you and your ever-so-evolved ilk can't watch bi and trans porn, there are tons of places on the internet to scratch the itch, go and enjoy. All gay men are saying is that we don't want it in gay porn, because it has nothing to do with homosexuality.

I am a gay man and when I am watching gay porn the LAST thing I want to see is a woman. If I am watching gay porn and a woman pops up in the video, I move on to something else. Nothing against women but not for me in my porn.

And the men.com site has many years in business as a porn with only MEN in it (until recently) despite the straight owners. It is a product for those who want to watch man-on-man action.

It was not a company set up to showcase all different combinations of sex. In fact, when you begin to type the site's name in the tool bar, it pops up as : "Men.com - The Best Gay Porn Website". GAY. Their own words.

Brandon Cody, Paddy O'Brian, etc. are listed as "Exclusive Gay Pornstars."

Men.com is changing what their business is, so there is nothing wrong with actual gay customers being pissed off about non-gay content. Especially if they are subscribers and a bi or straight scene will count as a "New Scene" taking the place of a new Gay Scene.

R144, Exactly! They make GAY porn and if I they want to start making other kinds of porn they should take gay out of their brand. The only reason this is happening is because the owners are straight and focus on straight content.

R140 / r141, I’m black, 21 and I was not born in America so there goes your rationalization. If you were gay then you would understand the problem with this, homophobia is not eradicated and it shows itself in context. If you honestly don’t understand the problem with this after it’s been described here then there is nothing we can do for you.

R138, What did Lucas do

R144, I hope Men.com suffers because of this

VAGINA.......NA.........NA...........NA.........NA

It seems to be that Arad hasn't addressed the topic after he announced his bisexual debut.

R11 I would think that website to which you linked contains as many lies and self-delusions as those in Mr Winwin's head.

Yay!!!

R138 You boycott Michael Lucas and I boycott Belami.

Another subtle way to erase the gay.

Trans and bi = anti gay

I hope the Trans and bi will die out in the next thirty years after they come to their senses.

It is hot

Any updates from Arad? If it’s a “bi” scene, who will be the other man?

R154 he hasn’t talked about it at all since the post

About the Adam Ramzi photo shoot with a woman:

I asked the woman who was in the shoot (done last October) and she said it was only pics, no sex. She also said, however, that those pics ended up not being used on the site, which she didn’t understand. She didn’t have copies of them either.

Adam got a huge ton of flak on Twitter about the shoot, a giant backlash from his gay male audience. Maybe he got the pictures squelched?

Arad needs to pay attention.

R156 Arad doesn’t seem like the smart type so I doubt he gave it much thought

Why should he care what anti-bi zealots think?

No updates this weekend.

Curious

Isn't the "plot" of every Men.com video easily summed up as "Straight jock Brandon Conner comes home to find his straight jock roommate looking at porn. They're so horny, they decide to help each other out. Even though they remain straight jocks after having gay sex!"

This was the "not in front of my salad" site, right?

So adding in bi scenes to reinforce the porn stars "straightness" seems par for the course.

It's likely that gay porn studios have the idea that homosexual men all love heterosexual men. As a homosexual guy myself what I want to see is homosexual men having sex because they reciprocate sexual attraction. I want celebration of homosexual love and sex; no heterosexuality in the picture at all.

It looks like for the time being there is silence about the bisexual debut.

Logically, who else at Men would most likely be in this scene with Arad Winwin and the skank?

Ryan Bones is a good guess since he does lots of Canadian heterosexual porn. Do both of these guys bottom?

Who else possibly?

Ryan Bones is hot

Arad never bottoms.

He shouldn’t. He’s an Alpha

What’s a good Arad scene?

No suggestions?

What wre they thinking when they thought having Arad fuck a woman would be desirable?

It looks like most studios of gay porn think we are self-loathing and obsessed with heterosexual sex.

Histrionics here

[quote]It looks like most studios of gay porn think we are self-loathing and obsessed with heterosexual sex.

And they would be right.

Not my case R172

I want men having sex.

I doubt Adam Ramzi would have the power to pull a photo shoot,more than likely the whole thing looked so stupid it was a waste of there time uploading it.

Adam Ramzi is so straight worshiping he thinks being called homophobic is a complement.

He was very hateful defending that shoot. Just nasty.

Nothing on their site yet.

The plot thickens

Is Arad ignoring questions about it on his Instagram?

R178 yep

Arad’s ready for it!

He’s really sexy!

I love his raw OnlyFans scene with Jae Gorgeous.

The comments call that a heterosexual scene in disguise.

Looks like Arad was getting ready.

There was "Straight Guys for Gay Eyes" a while ago... 10 years or more. It basically just focused on the guy and ignored the girl. Some of the guys were really hot - and you didn't have to see endless gaping vagina shots. There are a few guys from there I still remember liking.

What's the big deal? I watch bi porn all the time. I love it when the guy fucking a gal gets fucked in his butt, probably because I've done that a few times (just the gay part).

Sex is fun.

Here’s the “Straight Guys For Gay Eyes” heterosexual scene that killed Arpad Miklos’ career.

Why did it kill his career?

Well, he ALWAYS wore condoms in his hundreds of scenes fucking men, but he goes bareback to fuck this girl.

His gay audience found that to be homophobic and offensive. Plus, just the whole idea of Arpad doing a straight scene when he said over and over that he was completely gay made him look like a liar and maybe even G4P.

His gay porn work dried up as did his escorting. He killed himself three years later.

^ wow

Whatever. That’s an exaggeration

Un-exaggerate it for us, O Knowledgeable One.

It's an "exaggeration" that Arpad killed himself? Huh. Interesting theory, DUDE.

On Arpad's official website, he said he had sex with women before he started having sex with a man for the first time in his 20s and realized he was gay. So obviously he could function sexually with a woman. The bareback part was pretty hypocritical though. I could understand him not wanting to bareback with someone who was untested, but Jake Cruise tested all of the models that did bareback on his sites, so it wasn't like he wouldn't know the status of the men he could've barebacked with on Jake's gay websites.

So why did he even do the straight scene if he was gay? He was still very popular BEFORE that scene, so he didn’t do it desperately for money; he had plenty of opportunity for gay work.

Fans turned on him immediately. Will they turn on Arad?

Obviously not gay but bisexual more strongly attracted to guys.

r195, I think it's likely they would. It's one thing to come on the scene as gay4pay/bi. But his whole narrative was that of a gay man escaping a homophobic homeland to live his life freely as a gay man. It's understandable that fans who bought into that narrative will feel upset when they find out it's a lie.

Pornstars actually believe and act like they are "stars" , they have huge egos and basically believe they are entitled to adoration. They become obnoxious narcissists and basically think are a too good to be just gay. Just being gay isn't good enough for them, they have to be bisexual or straight.

Whatever r98.

R198

Whatever is what people say when they have no good answer to the truth.

Since Miklos' dead and cannot defend his decision to not use condoms with the chica....

It's possible he had residual homophobia from coming out late. It's possible he succumbed to the programming of the AIDS outbreak years that gay sex= death/danger. It's possible he knew the chick personally and didn't feel the need to use condoms (maybe he even chose her as his scene partner?).

I wrote all that to argue Arad's motives should differ from Arpads, but, after writing it, I imagine Arad may have many of the same issues growing up in a homophobic Iran.

At any rate, it's easy for me to imagine people being turned off sexually by his act, but it's tough to imagine people turning on someone personally, someone whose provided them years of orgasms. Sounds naive, now that I wrote that.

The girl that Arpad fucked in that video was not chosen by him. Jake Cruise said she was surprised that Arpad was gay, but she did wonder about it when he responded well to her rimming his asshole.

Arpad came out in his early 20s which is not "Late".

Girls he was gay and was more of a bottom in his private life. Some of you queens are pathetic, now you’re speculating about whether a dead porn Star was bisexual?

A number of factors caused him to commit suicide he was clinically depressed and the steroids and meth were aggravating the problem. His visa was about to expire and none of his previous credentials from his prior career in Hungary would be applicable here, and he had not done anything to bring them up to date. Also, he had recently seroconverted which upped his despair and desperation about the future.

He was still looking for johns and tricks on escort and hookup apps within 24 hours of killing himself.

“Girls”? Kick rocks

Right after Arpad suicided himself, the "Arpad Mikos is Bisexual/Really Straight"/"Blake Harper is Bisexual/Really Straight" Troll here at DL was spinning the story that Arpad had a girlfriend that his gay audience didn't "allow" him to be with. So, he killed himself because he could not come out as straight.

This Troll pretended to have seen the suicide note and everything, completely contradicting what Arpad's friends who found him said.

Yes, that Troll is the definition as unhinged. And self-hating, duh.

The "Arpad Miklos/Blake Harper is Really Bisexual/Straight" Troll here at DL posted after Arpad's suicide that Arpad had a girlfriend and his evil gay audience wouldn't let him come out as straight. This Troll also pretended to have seen the contents of the suicide note, which completely contradicted what Arpad's friends reported that actually read the note.

What happened to that unhinged Troll? Oh, he's on the "Dallas Steele is Really Bisexual/Straight" bandwagon right now. Shocked he's not here.

I have no idea about Aprad, but Blake Harper (Peter) was bi, or had bisexual tendencies. I knew an ex f-buddy of his that was also bisexual and he said the two regularly included women in their hook-ups. This is while he was dating Jason, who was gay and they broke up because of it, even tho it was an open relationship.

Arad replied

“ This is all professional working and business, nothing personal.”

So he is a money hungry whore

He didn’t deny not having sex with a woman so it’s safe to say he did

He is bisexual, gay men in porn don't need to have sex with women unless they want to because the money they get is less than or equal to gay scenes. So there is no real financial benefit for them to do bi porn unless personally, they want to. Same with all the guys mentioned in this thread or any guy in gay porn that does bi, st8 or trans scenes. Bi or str8 for pay is as fictitious as gay for pay.

Good for him. He’s a modern dude.

buT vaGina DoEsnT mEAN ItS nOt stiLL gAy sEx

R212 exactly it’s not like he was forced to do it

If you are bisexual just state it from the beginning; don't deceive us.

Does Men.com do kink & leather and if he holds his alpha status in such high regard those that mean he will he be dominating the woman, that sounds a bit iffy.

Coming August 1

Ewwww.

Looks hot. I’m here for it.

They'd rather start showing pussy over showing a Black guy. Typical.

R221 They never even attempted a black Panther parody either. They did all these other superhero porn movies but the one with a 98% black cast they just forget about it hmm...

They could've killed the controversy by using a black porn actress.

Will Arad eat her pussy? The trailer shows the other guy eating her out.

I wonder who Men will put in their next bi scene, because they seem determined to put more women in gay porn.

I don’t understand why he would lie about being gay, was he trying to get sympathy or something?

I wonder if his story about escaping Iran even real.

And is it just me or does his face kinda look off, like he’s worn out or something.

"Brunette bombshell" Silvia Sage is really strange-looking. She looks like she should have been playing a supporting character on [italic]The Andy Griffith Show[/italic] in the early '60s.

R7 You seriously think a porn actor enjoys a sex scene with another actor only because said actor has a correct biological sex? It's like the dumbest lgbt stereotype ever. If someone is attacted to their own sex, it doesn't mean they want to fuck or enjoy having sex with EVERY member of said sex.

R229 where does he say that? He just said that there is really no reason for arad to film a bi scene. Unlike gay4pay which pays more I doubt the money he gets for this is better. So like it doesn’t make sense for a straight man to willingly sleep with a man for less that he would make for a woman the same applies to arad

And I’m sure that the company know his bisexuality and his willingness to sleep with a woman. I’m sure they didn’t just randomly just choose him and I’m sure that performers can back out of scenes if they don’t want to do them.

I love the fluidity

R7 can you or anybody link me to the twitter thread or tell me more about it?

Isn’t the other guy gay for gay? If it that easy for them to get actual gay them to do scenes with women then why don’t they have another gay performer do a scene with them? I just don’t understand why arad would say he’s gay when he’s not.

Ugh, Laverne "no talent" Cox is also back in ep 6. Couldn't they have kept a talented cast member instead.

R230 I doubt payment only depends on whether it's gay/bi/straight sex scene. Basically he says that being gay the actor must prefer doing gay scenes no matter the circumstances. Which makes zero sense considering this is porn. They don't do it because they like the sex, they do it for easy money.

R234 Dude I'm not familiar with the porn scene (just stumbled over this thread whle searching for something else) but let me tell you this. Some of the guys from your neighborhood or the gay bars you go to? They are not gay.

They are male bisexuals with a long term male partner or a preference for men. Who pretend to be gay because they don't want to be closeted and being openly bi gets you a lot of crap in some LGBT communities.

I love bi scenes. Maybe they can get more hot guys now they do bi scenes.

Totally shocked about this! 😮

R236 on average gay porn pays the most unless you know more about the paying process then I do. But what r7 means is why go so out of left field when you can just say no and still be paid the same? Unless he got a big bonus which I doubt because this scene is probably not going to be raking in money. Its like why do a bottom scene when your exclusively a top and being paid the same?

R238 Did you enjoy it? I saw the clip and it didn’t look appealing at all.

R236 I feel like it would be easier to have sex with the gender you’re at least attracted to. Not saying that they have to be attracted to all their costars just easier. When gay4pay guys talk about sex with men it’s usually followed with how difficult it is compared to the women they filmed with.

R236Wouldn’t be easier to just have sex with the gender you prefer if you’re being paid the same? G4p guys do it because it pays more with less scenes and often do eventually transfer to straight porn.

R236 Wouldn’t be easier to just have sex with the gender you prefer if you’re being paid the same? G4p guys do it because it pays more with less scenes and often do eventually transfer to straight porn.

His career in gay porn may be over after the release. He can then do bi and hetero porn then.

You’re full of shit r208 god why would you go through so much effort to make up such a ridiculous story.

why & how are you so sure the story is made up r246? And besides Blake Harper did some bisexual scenes one with two women so that sorta dismantles your argument he isn't bi right off the bat.

Because r247 that troll has been around here for a decade and has made up the same variation of that story. Peter couldn’t keep a boyfriend because he wanted his sex life to be like Dawson’s 50 load weekend all the time.

How do you know that r248? Did you know him personally or at least part of the same social scene?

Even so he still did bi porn and there is no reason a "gay" guy to do bi porn unless he was somewhat bisexual.

The Blake Harper Troll made up the story about Colton Ford dumping him because Blake was always cheating with women. “Colton said it on Twitter!”

Of course there was never any such Tweet. I DMed Colton Ford and asked him about it and he said that was completely untrue.

This poster made up the lies about the contents of Arpad Miklos’s suicide note as well as a complete fabrication of Blake Riley living a heterosexual life after leaving gay porn.

This gets off on making up these stories.

Still that being said he did do bi porn, which sorta suggest he was bisexual to some degree.

[Quote] Are you gay, straight, or bi? Single or taken?

[Quote] Gay and single.

He claimed to be gay three and a half years ago.

Are bisexual men also prosecuted in Iran?

People can evolve into their orientations.

"Evolve" meaning "better?"

Evolving up out of a transitional gay phase, is that it?

That's the Bi Narrative these days?

No, No, NO!

R251 you do realize how that porn sex isn’t based on who you are attracted to don’t you? Do you believe 99.99% of the guys that fucked Jake cruise were attracted to him? Look up viagra, trimix and caverject.

The Blake Harper and Arpad-obsessed queens need to GET. OVER. IT.

R257, That poster is invested in spreading the notion that all gay men are turning bisexual everywhere. All the old white gay men are dying off and being replaced by the new bisexual generation that scorns the lesser and limited homosexuality.

He puts a lot of work into spreading the Bi Takeover narrative here.

You have to be at least a little bi curious to have sex with men, especially on camera…bareback!

There is a difference in having sex within the parameters of your own sexual orientation and then having sex with women if you're whole sexuality is based on the fact you are not sexually attracted to women.

There is no point for a gay man to do bi porn because the financial benefit is not any greater than that of gay porn. So why bother unless you are a closeted bisexual, like Arad Winwin and Blake Harper and Blake Riley. And I'm sure there are a lot of guys in gay porn who say the are straight who are actually gay IRL, like Erik Rhodes who was told to pretend to be gay 4 pay but refused to do so.

I am homosexual and I canot have sex with women because I'm not attracted to them. During my life I have expereinced many occassions when girls made sexual advances and it felt wrong and pressuring for me. I knew I cannot respond sexually.

I know only one case of a gay guy who had sex with a woman but he didn't like it; he is a top and only likes men and men's butts.

I believe lots of these men are bisexual to some degree. They may be 98% homosexual but that little 2% may allows them at least to respond sexually.

Men have Been fluid throughout history

R242 I imagine it's difficult because it includes anal sex and even for gay/bi men that's often an acquired taste.

R259 That's not a new theory. The newer generation of gays doesn't have the exclusiely homoerotic fetish to the level the ancestors did, and they don't feel the separation from the society on the same level as well. So if their sexuality is really nonbinary, it's given a chance to bloom. Old timey gay thing is like cock worship & gay ghettos.

True. The be “gay gay gay” thing seems to played out, anachronistic. I love the modern fluidity and openness that goes beyond old, rigid identity and separatism.

R216 What's the difference between having sex with a man you are totally not attracted to and having sex with a woman you are not attracted to?

That man's body doesnt arouse you. He doesn't do anything for you. You don't want to touch him. You'd never choose him for sex if you weren't paid.

So what's the difference?

It’s also bringing in hot mainstream guys who, iIn previous eras, Would have been too afraid of the gay label and stigma to ever mess around with dudes.

R263 yeah I don't care. You and your "woke " fluidity friends go crawl back into the hipster coffee shop you came from. Labels do matter in context and and in this world. Do I believe everyone is born to some degree bi then choose based on their nurturing? Yes but far too many of our LGB brothers and sisters are still getting assaulted, homeless, imprisoned, or killed all across the world and even in rural parts of the statesfor simply being attracted to same sex. So excuse me while you and your coffee sipping Tumblr thought friends are enjoying your little progressive enclave I feel to have guys come out with labels and show they aren't an abomination or have to hide it by going with a female. It's an insult to those how have fought, suffered and continue to suffer today. That's why I don't acknowledge these porn bros, fag hag women and g4p ruining what was a safe space for Gay and actual bi men that weren't asshamed to like men.

R265 is essentially peddling that transactivist propaganda that says gays and lesbians are benighted perverted genital fetishists. by dint of exclusively liking male and female bodies respectively. Words mean things —and you’re entirely welcome to make up your own for your own private use, but you don’t get to change our FACTS to contort to your dogma

R269 is that why you assume every guy who's been with guys but is going out with a girl is using her as a beard or lying to himself? Let's pressure him until he swears off cunt forever like a proper gay guy should and announces himself gay gay gay. Because otherwise he is confused and needs to sort things out. That forceful insistence on labels and choosing a side hurts LGBTQ people just as well. Like gold star lesbians, etc, that shit fucks up young queer people's brains no less than heteronormativity does.

[quote]True. The be “gay gay gay” thing seems to played out, anachronistic. I love the modern fluidity and openness that goes beyond old, rigid identity and separatism.

r266, that's fantastic for you, but is there a reason you feel it necessary to force this on actual homosexual men? If you are bi/pan/fluid that's great, but what in the world makes you think this has anything to do with actual gay men? Just because you may happen to share an attraction to the same sex does not mean we are the same or that we want the same things. So the solution is to create you own thing (in this instance, porn) not force it on others without their consent.

There is a real air of condescension in the bi/pan/fluid narrative. There's this palpable judgement of homosexuals for being, well, homosexual. We are thought of as 'old-fashioned' and 'close-minded' for being what we are. Do they have any idea how insulting this is, especially given the history of society's attempts to 'fix' gay people? We used to get the message from the right that homosexuality was a choice that could be cured with enough effort. Now, in the height of irony, we are getting that same basic message from the left, only dressed up in different words.

R270 I'm essentially peddling the theory that nonbinary sexuality is being oppressed not only by the straight community but also by the LGBT one. Cue all the bisexuality doesn't exist, bisexuals are really gay and so on and on. That's not coming from straights. There is less of this now. But it used to be overwhelming.

R273 Its great if you are BI/Pan, good for you, but what does have to do with gay men? Im sry to burst of bubble but being pan/bi, doesnt make you any more progressive, so you can stop with the condescending and virtue signalling attitude .

R272 I'm not the anon you replied to, but why do we need the harsh separation? Why do we need to make sexual orientation and sexual identity into an unshakable, stone-wrought commitment? It only brings people misery. People discover their sexuality is not as defined and singular as they thought, and then they suffer, get confused, feel torn, exactly because they have been nurtured by the convinction of definitions. Where they are made to feel as if they lose themselves by losing the label, as if their very being is linked to it.

R272 Heterosexuals are seen as limited and old-fashioned and close-minded too.

R261=Retard. Just because you are gay doesn’t mean you are attracted to all kinds of men, hence the gay guys that had sex with Jake cruise or the guys that do fat woman and milf porn. Boner drugs and injections have made shooting porn much easier.

R272 Also it's not the same basic message. No bi/pan/fluid enthusiast would suggest someone limit their sexuality. The point is exactly the opposite. No limits, no labels, no borders.

Yes why don't you progressives hassle straight guys about the glory of fluidity. Let me know how you get on.

R272, He's saying that there are NO gay men or gay women. We are all making up fake labels and clinging to them in an outdated way of life.

The Fluid Factor is looking down at gay men and saying "There are no homosexuals, just pansexuals who can't admit it."

R279 What makes you think we don't? A lot of them are kind of scared of their inner fluidity though. It shows. xd

I get that there's wiggle room for people's attractions to change, but I'm white-knuckling it to my homosexuality. Too much of my life wouldn't make sense without it.

If this scene's successful enough to merit expanding the ladies content at Men.com, there're other sites and so much extant man-man porn that my orgasms are covered until 2500CE.

R282 Well you kind of just proved my point about the convinction of definitions.

R278 But that's exactly what the agenda is to encourage having sex with women. You don't see guys on the other end of the spectrum saying fluidity and having sex with men. So why drag gay ones? This is the result of "all inclusiveness" message you guys are spouting. You're letting in this minority of people do their free love nonsense and it doesn't work like that at all. Why is there bi porn, naked women, and constant g4p men parading their females in gay spaces? Many die because they liked the same sex but I guess they didnt just discover the wonders of "fluidity" to save thwm

R284 Yes you do. You just don't pay attention to it. The concept of fluidity paints heterosexuality as limiting as well.

Or do you see the very idea of having sex with women in addition to men as limiting? I think that might be the point. The years of struggle led to separation, so a lot of LG people feel the need to put a sort of a wall between themselves and heterosexuality, reinforcing the differences, so a suggestion to have a slice of that pie feels like being dragged kicking and screaming back over the wall.

There is no agenda to force gay men to have sex with women or to force lesbian women to have sex with men. The idea is that you don't need to hold being gay or lesbian (or hetero!) as a supreme cornerstone of your identity. You can choose to have sex with women or men without losing the sense of identity. That's the freedom of it.

As for g4p, yeah they are fake but then all porn is fake. Everything about porn is fake. So it shouldn't be held as a reflection of real life.

He said "choose."

There's the agenda RIGHT THERE.

R286 Choose as in act upon your desires. Not reject or suppress them because you feel like you must do so in order to keep your identity.

R283, You're correct. I don't remember saying you're wrong, but, if I did, you're right.

R267 the difference is it would still be a man and personally if it was me I feel like I would go with that option because he would have what I’m attracted to even if not to him. It’s just natural and people fuck people of the gender they're attracted to but not to them all the time. It’s not uncommon to know or here stories about gay guys sleeping with guys they’re not attracted to over women at all. I did it when I started having sex, it was with guys I wasn’t into at all and even though I didn’t enjoy it much if not at all it felt like a step in the right direction. Why is it like that? Because it just feels right or better than the alternative. I can personally vouch that it just feels right it’s not something logical it’s just how we are built it’s are sexuality.

R288 No idea either, I don't usually check out who said what, it's just that your comment resonated with everything just in time.

R289 Yeah I heard those stories too and always wondered why. How comes sex with a girl felt "wrong" but sex with a guy feels "right" even though you did not get more pleasure out of the second encounter. It wasn't like meh sex with a girl but awesome sex with a guy, it was two cases of meh sex. Why does anything but pleasure matters at all. I guess it's that very point where monosexual people understand each other despite often having conflicts while bisexual (pan, fluid, etc) people just don't get it. Maybe some of it is social-based, though. Like reaffirming one's sexuality.

R285 it would seem like it would be that way but you can’t erase the fact that we live in a heteronormative world and fluidity is not going to change that. We don’t live in a world where homosexuality is widely accepted and I find that fluidity is being pushed in a way as to erase homosexuality. The thing is that heterosexuality will not be affected because it’s the majority and is viewed as the norm.

All this fluidity nonsense. You are not fluid; if you like both sexes you liked them from the beginning. It's just that either you suppressed one side or the right people never showed up until a certain moment.

R293 Self-realization also takes time for some people. Especially with the way bisexuality is treated in our culture. So soul-searching might take time. I like the term fluid because it accentuates the way bisexuality is not strictly a 50/50 gotta have both cock and cunt in equl amounts all the time deal. You might feel like more into guys and then like more into girls and suddenly fall in love with a guy in the middle of it, etc.

R292 Fluidity is pushed in because quite a lot of people are bisexual or sexually fluid to some degree, and as the ideas of sexuality get more relaxed, more people start liking the idea.

In the old-fashioned homosexual world you have nowhere to go if you are bi/fluid/pan/queer, etc--unless you are willing to pretend you are gay. You get asked not to bring up your ex girlfriends or hot celebrities, not to talk about your experiences and so on. Basically you are asked to reject the heteroerotism altogether. I knew a boy who came out as gay but later realized he was too quick with that conclusion and he actually liked girls too... he lost some gay friends in college over that confession. He was basically told to go hang out with straights since he was so eager to become straight himself. Except he wasn't straight. He was what he was.

The concept of fluidity affects heterosexual people too. By telling them to inspect their own sexuality closely and stop suppressing the same-sex urges quite a lot of them actually have. A lot of bi-curious people force it down because they don't want to lose their ties with the mainstream culture, but they feel like getting a taste of same-sex attraction will force them to abandon their habitual lifestyle. Because you can be either straight or gay, choose now and stick to it. In the world of free fluid sexuality they never need to choose anything because they are allowed to have everything.

R295 yes but what does that have to do with GAY porn. Emphasis on the GAY. You can write a whole fucking college term paper on fluidity and post it on this site but that doesn't change the fact that a hetero owned studio is pushing heterosexuality to an audience that's suppose to be gay. This is only the extension of g4p and "straightness" it was never about fluidity and bisexuality. The fact you keep spouting this nonsense is to normalize the fact that they are emphasizing heterosexuality in GAY porn. An art form that was made for gay men by gay men or what used to be because now your "inclusive" crowd a stud allow this most insidious form of heteronormativity and homophobia into GAY spaces which used to be a haven for MEN WHO LIKED MEN and realized it was ok to JUST LIKE MEN.

R296 If we are talking about a bisexual scene how is it pushing heterosexuality?

Heterosexuality = attraction exclusively to opposite sex. If a man is shown enjoying sex with both men and women, heterosexuality and heteronormativity are not what's being advertised. Because they do not include enjoying same-sex attraction and acting on it.

If a man is openly attracted to men, then him being shown as also attracted to women is not homophobic. Homophobia is depicting male-to-male attraction as wrong, unnatural, sinful, inherently bad, perverted, etc. Not also including male-to-female attraction into the narrative.

[quote]In the old-fashioned homosexual world you have nowhere to go if you are bi/fluid/pan/queer, etc--unless you are willing to pretend you are gay. You get asked not to bring up your ex girlfriends or hot celebrities, not to talk about your experiences and so on. Basically you are asked to reject the heteroerotism altogether.

r295, thoughts on your post:

1) Of course someone who is not homosexual wouldn't be a part of the homosexual world, that's true just by definition. What exactly is wrong with bi/fluid/pan/queer people being a part of the bi/fluid/pan/queer world? Of course the worlds may overlap in certain areas but gay and bi/fluid/pan/queer are not the same thing.

2) Yeah, homosexual men are not terribly interested in talking about sexual exploits with women, shocker. Are bi/fluid/pan/queer people not able to express their sexual interest in women with straight/bi/fluid/pan/queer people?

3) Homosexuality is a real sexual orientation, and it is just as valid as the bi/fluid/pan/queer orientation. Being homosexual is not 'old fashioned' or 'close-minded'.

R298 exactly! Why are we old fashioned for something we can’t control?

That old-fshion homosexual world thing sound manipulative. It's like hearing trans activists trying to redefine homosexuality to force us to sleep with transgender men.

[quote]If we are talking about a bisexual scene how is it pushing heterosexuality? Heterosexuality = attraction exclusively to opposite sex. If a man is shown enjoying sex with both men and women, heterosexuality and heteronormativity are not what's being advertised. Because they do not include enjoying same-sex attraction and acting on it.

r297, are you being willfully obtuse? Homosexual men are saying they have no interest in seeing women performing in gay porn. We resent it being shoved down our throats, we resent being told that we should grin and bear it, and we most certainly resent being told that we are being 'close-minded' for affirming our sexual orientation.

No one is advocating banning bisexual porn. Quite the contrary, go, have at it. Just stop trying to foist it on homosexual men. Seriously, what is so hard to understand about that?

R298 Well how about dating a homosexual man? Who then asks you to keep quiet about you being actually bi not gay because his friends wouldn't approve. Or suggests an open relationship except you are only allowed to have sex with other men, women are forbidden. And so on and on, LGBTQ is here for a reason. Unless we determine that people only must ever date those whose sexuality is the same as their own.

Being homosexual is not old-fashioned. Trying to pretend that same-sex attraction is always strictly homosexual is.

I agree that MSM are not exclusively homosexual. But the homosexual subset of MSM does not need to see vagina for the rest of the MSM to feel validated.

If men.com wants to ad vaginas and I have to see it to access their peen-only porn, then I won't be accessing their site. And that's totally legit of both men.com and me.

R301 Who is forcing you to watch bisexual porn? What I mostly saw here is the insistence that if there is a porn with man on man interaction, women have no place in it. Because man to man interaction should be kept exclusively that and any alternative is somehow terrible and homophobic and disgusting. Also the idea that a gay man is not allowed to discover he also enjoys sex with women (if he does then he is a liar and a traitor). Like the story upthread about someone who lost all fans over it.

[quote][R298] Well how about dating a homosexual man? Who then asks you to keep quiet about you being actually bi not gay because his friends wouldn't approve. Or suggests an open relationship except you are only allowed to have sex with other men, women are forbidden. And so on and on, LGBTQ is here for a reason. Unless we determine that people only must ever date those whose sexuality is the same as their own. Being homosexual is not old-fashioned. Trying to pretend that same-sex attraction is always strictly homosexual is.

r302, I'm not sure what you're saying with those specific scenarios. That bisexual people have the right to identify as bisexual? I mean, that's a given. That open relationships for bisexuals should include both men and women? OK. Those are individual issues best discussed with a partner.

LGBTQ++++ is a political agency, it's not an actual community. Bisexuals and homosexuals may intersect at certain points but clearly there are differences. These are two different sexual orientations and that will inevitably affect our lived experiences. It's alright to acknowledge the difference.

No one is saying that same-sex attraction is experienced solely by gay people. We are here discussing bisexuality so clearly that doesn't apply. The point people are objecting to is that homosexuals are being called 'old-fashioned' for only having a sexual interest in the same sex, you know, the literal definition of homosexuality.

[quote]34 minutes ago [R301] Who is forcing you to watch bisexual porn? What I mostly saw here is the insistence that if there is a porn with man on man interaction, women have no place in it. Because man to man interaction should be kept exclusively that and any alternative is somehow terrible and homophobic and disgusting. Also the idea that a gay man is not allowed to discover he also enjoys sex with women (if he does then he is a liar and a traitor). Like the story upthread about someone who lost all fans over it.

r304, did you even read this thread? The bisexual porn is being placed on a gay porn site. People are objecting to women being in GAY scenes, not bisexual ones. Do you go on straight sites and insist they start showing bisexual porn too? If no, why not? Can you please explain what is wrong with gay men saying they do not want women in gay porn?

R305 Basically that the straight community wants bi guys to [pretend] to be straight, the gay community wants them to [pretend] to be gay, and then both complain about bi guys not being open enough. So unless you only want to date other bi guys, you have to either conform or rebel. And the harsh lines drawn in the sand regarding labels don't help because sexuality is messy for many, many people. That's exactly what you are doing in your comment by reinforcing the idea that there are global differences between sexual orientations and people need to organize themselves into groups based on theirs. Firmly defining themselves in the process and then separating from others.

Not for having an interest in the same sex. But for trying to a put a wall around it. Let's say there is a young gay man who is bi-curious. He encounters this attitude... and he is basically yelled at for his interest, his identity is questioned, he is told over and over that a real gay man shouldn't even think about such things, he is a self-hating straight-worshipper. Either be 100% gay or don't sit with us. That's the attitude.

And any kind of media which deals with male-to-male attraction is being sort of taken over in order to cleanse it from the other influences. Like that recent movie where the main character dates a girl and then falls for a guy, and the movie makes it clear like a dozen times that he is gay he could never be not gay please don't delude yourselves into thinking he could ever be into that girl.

That's what old-fashioned and close-minded. The idea that every time same-sex male attraction happens, it should be firmly defined as gay and placed in a strictly gay box.

R306 So, they are widening their reach. What makes you think that every piece of porn with man-on-man action in it is gay porn or should be gay porn? And yes if they added bisexual porn to a straight site and I happened to come across a thread, I would have said the same. What makes you think that a media item depicting a sex act involving a man and a woman should by default be placed on the heterosexual shelf?

According to veteran lesbian porn performer Bree Daniels, only 2 performers in lesbian porn are true homosexual. Woulden't really be surprised if this is also true to gay porn.

R302 “Being homosexual is not old-fashioned. Trying to pretend that same-sex attraction is always strictly homosexual is.”

Huh???!?

The postmodern trans/queer theory ideology is strong with this one.

R309 Never uttered a word about trans, or have I?

Example in hand. You are dating a man. People assume you are gay. Even LGBT people who really should know better.

It’s a deliberate and calculated confusion of terms. Same-sex attraction IS homosexual—not to be confused with being Homosexual (noun); a bisexual man having sex with a man is committing an act of HOMOSEXUALITY not bisexuality.

“commiting” for want of a better phrase

R310 you don’t have to it’s clear you’ve swallowed the whole fucking agenda that’ has for a couple of decades insinuating it’s way through academia and is now firmly entrenched in LGBT rights orgs and increasingly in the gay media. The same agenda that unless checked will sooner or later insist that it’s bigoted not to feature transman “front holes” in gay porn because they *are* MEN after all. Androphilia means something concrete — look it up

^Actually scrub that last bit. They’ve made“androphilia” just another weasel word

Per wiki: “Androphilia describes sexual attraction to men or MASCULINITY [emphasis mine]”

Always rely on old tried and trusted “homosexual” — emphasis on SEXUAL

R311 The point is that people confuse it purposefully.

Same with purposefully confusing “sex” and “gender” until they break down all meaning, allowing them to mean whatever they want

The best move is not to buy this release. Mke your voice heard by not giving the money for this.

Wait, are the bisexual guys on this thread saying that unless gay men are having sex with women, there is something inherently wrong and abnormal with them? WOW!! What a load of bigoted anti-gay bullshit.

Well done buying into the alt-right's propaganda; divide and conquer.

If you DONT like bisexual Scenes, don’t watch them. Find another studio to patronize if you wish. But you have no authority to a company you don’t own not to include bi porn, nor can you tell viewers who love bi porn not to like it. Grow up.

r319, that is such a crock, and you know it. No one is telling people who enjoy bi porn that they cannot. No one is going to bi porn sites and insisting they change their content. Gay men are trying to explain that they do not care for women being included in gay porn, what exactly is wrong with that? And consumers have a right to express their opinion on a product.

r319, do you go to straight porn sites and demand they also include bisexual scenes? If no, why not?

Sadly, it won't hurt his career, women in his insta are going crazy. Sorry guys, but women are now ruling gay porn.

r322, gay men don't really care about these bi/gay4pay guys in gay porn, well, we care because they are usually shit performers that stink up gay porn. The reason gay men had a strong reaction to this Arad guy is because he used a storyline that was tailor made to tug at the heartstrings of gay men. People don't react well to feeling lied to and used, it's not rocket science.

I noticed Arad never tagged his instagram post with any type of gay #, so I always assumed he was bi.

R321 This is what I've been thinking for a while and haven't seen it brought up much. Too many gay porn studios have been adding women and bi/straight scenes and according to the "woke" internet, the gay fans are suppose to just accept it but if a straight porn site were to add gay or bi scenes, I guarantee their fan/subscribers would FLIP their heterosexual shit and probably call for a boycott.

Gay men only spaces not anymore.

This in not an isolated thing, it is a trend. Notice that there can no longer be any specifically 'gay and lesbian' organisations, they must now all be LGBT+++. However, this does not apply equally as, of course, there can be specific bisexual and trans groups/organisations. Notice that no one is going to bi and trans specific sites and demanding they change their content.

This could open up the possibility of getting some of the straight porn stars from Brazzers to cross over and do some bi scenes, like Charles Dera for example.

No thank you

There is great stigma on porn actors who have done gay porn. Remember the actress who committed suicide last year when she said she wouldn't have sex with a actor who had done gay porn? The one who had the argument with Jaxxton Wheeler?

Women openly thinking male and bi porn is the greatest thing to happen to those of us who love mostly straight and bicurious dudes.

It's not easy to crossover from gay to straight porn. With the internet, it's harder for them to hide that they've done it. And yeah, a good amount of the women won't work with known "crossovers" or some companies won't hire them.

Jeremy Bilding was probably the last to be able to work a lot and become a fairly big star on the straight side (as Ryan Driller). He does a lot of feature type movies.

I don't see any big names crossing over from straight to gay or even bi unless they're looking for a big payday before retiring like Rocco Reed or Kurt Lockwood (the later made a comeback later on in straight porn but didn't get much work).

Women openly thinking male and bi porn is hot is the greatest thing to happen to those of us who love mostly straight and bicurious dudes.

R309 Just look at any thread dealing with possibly bisexual men where gay commenters shout "he is gay gay gay no way is he not gay". That's what an effort by the gay community to privatise same-sex attraction means. It has nothing to do with transgender theories.

r334, this is a predominantly gay and lesbian site, of course the slant will be that way.

I can only speak for myself but I know I don't go on bi/pan/queer/fluid sites trying to dictate to them. The truth is, while I wish them well, I'm not terribly interested in the bi/pan/queer/fluid community.

So much energy putting into porn performers.

There is a significant percentage of bi people here, so gay gay males aren’t the only voice

Don't you guys consider yourselves 'mostly straight' now because the term 'bisexual' is just too close to the dreaded 'gay'? There was an article posted here about that not too long ago.

In Davey Wavey I trust.

R307 First off there is no straight community, and is ignorant to lump millions of people just because they’re gay. Just because we share an interest in the same sex doesn’t mean we hold the same views.

What do you mean by conform or rebel? Do you honestly think that bi people or the only ones who go through this? I will not take away from the things that bi people face and the phobia they face but this ridiculous. It’s not like they can’t conform and you using that analogy is insensitive.

Yes sexuality is messy for many people but many does not equal all. No, people don’t need to organize themselves by their sexuality and why would you think that? There is a difference between sexualities homosexual/Exclusives to the same sex, bisexual/Attraction to both or more sex etc. And a gay, bi, straight, etc person will obviously have different experiences, like it’s a given. How does a person identifying separate them? Why is it not okay to call ourselves gay men when that’s what we are? Them separating has less to do with that and more with the stigma the minority orientations face. When there is none or not as much they have been able to interact. Duh!

Young gay man who is bicurious? Are you speaking from personal experience because you sound personally hurt? Not saying what he’s facing is okay but you know there is a reason gay people would feel this way right? Do I need to bring up how gay people were stigmatized for being gay, told they could change. Or that everybody is perceived as straight so to label yourself as gay is to be pretty sure and go against the norm. So naturally it would be weird to them for a gay guy to feel that way obviously. Again not saying it’s right. Also being 100% gay is an oxymoran. The widely accepted meaning for gay is an exclusive attraction to the same sex.

If you mean Alex Strangelove then I agree with you. The way they portrayed the relationship made it seem like he was actually into her but turns out he only liked her as a friend. I thought why portray it like that if they’re not going to make him bi? I looked into it and turns out it was based on the writers life.

Men.com identifies as a gay porn site. They label their scenes as gay and even have a most popular gay scenes list. Why does bi porn have to be placed on either shelf? There are bi porn sites you know a quick google search will show that. Would it also be widening their reach if those bi porn sites started making exclusive gay and straight videos? It makes sense you know since they’re bi then why wouldn’t they want to see those when they went on a bi site to watch bi porn? And what makes you think a media item depicting a sex act between a man and a woman shouldn’t be placed on the kids programming shelf?

As far as I know sexual orientation is pretty much hardwired in the brain. When you become an adult you can't reshape your brain structure or your brain do it on its own.

I can help but think fluidity is based on whatever preference is the most advantageous and privileged, whether it's financially or socially, at any particular time.

R340 👏🏾

R340 “Also being 100% gay is an oxymoran”

Don’t wanna “oh, dear!” you..but is that not a “tautology”? Maybe I’m wrong 🤷‍♂️

Apparently the scene is out now.

R338 I like the word queer or sexually fluid. Bisexual is too clinical sounding, also it's connected to a lot of stereotypes. I'll use it though, if needed. I don't like labels exactly because the adepts of monosexuality aka "it's just a phase, you will choose a side eventually" are so obsessed with them.

R340 There is a community in the way of a prevalent attitude. Things are widely accepted by many vs things perceived as different. That'd where the whole conform vs rebel thing comes into play.

By conform or rebel I mean that you either have to insist on your bisexuality and face the possibility of being rejected by both sides (case in point, what do a lot of straight women and gay guys have in common? they will reject you if you admit you are bisexual) or conform by passing as straight or going along with people assuming you are gay. Then the object of your affections might change and people will behave as if you betrayed them by not shouting about your sexuality from the roofs, but these very people insisted you were going through a phase or lying when you tried to tell them earlier.

Nope not from personal experience. I always knew I was attracted to both, no doubts there. I did experience the biphobia though, and I was shocked to discover it within the LGBT circles, I thought they were a haven of acceptance unlike the homophobic parts of the straight society. Little did I know back then. I also met people like I described. People who didn't have the same confidence in their sexuality, and they got confused or hurt as a result.

Anyone who insists on labels and separation insists on people organizing themselves by sexuality. The very notion of the importance of sexual identity does that in a way.

Yeah 100%gay is a ridiculous terms, but what are the origins? The fear of the B word and the rejection. I literally met guys who were very obviously bisexual but they were like, I'm 90% gay. In order to hang onto a stable nonfluid identity because they were convinced they needed it.

Because sex is sex. How do you even define whether a porn image is gay or bisexual, or straight or bisexual, or bisexual or pansexual, unless it features a threesome? Two men having sex could be gay, fluid, bi, pan. A woman and a man having sex could present almost any mix of sexualities as well. if we go by technical definitions, then an image of two men having sex is "non-heterosexual porn". And a woman having sex with a man = non-homosexual porn. Quite a mouthful.

Sexual orientation is determined in the womb.

R348 Doesn't mean people immediately know their true one once they hit puberty.

R347=Jacob tobia.

[quote]By conform or rebel I mean that you either have to insist on your bisexuality and face the possibility of being rejected by both sides (case in point, what do a lot of straight women and gay guys have in common? they will reject you if you admit you are bisexual) or conform by passing as straight or going along with people assuming you are gay.

r347, I assume this is something the bisexual community is working towards correcting. Which brings up my next point: why is the bisexual community always excluded when bisexuals make statements like this about possibly being rejected by straight and gay people? Bisexuals far outnumber homosexuals, so clearly they represent a viable dating pool for each other, but this never seems to get mentioned.

Oh please r351.

"Bisexual porn star Arad Winwin has confirmed on insat story he is shooting his first bisexual scene with men.com, what ya say DL? "

Tragically, his publicist doesn't have me on speed dial. How could I possibly comment without sounding like a common gossip? A guttersnipe of the worst sort!

I just... I just coul.....

R351 Because it seems absurd to limit your dating pool so much when in theory you can date anyone?

Bisexual porn star, uh?

Well, why did you say it from the beginning?

Why didn't you say it from the beginning? I meant.

This isn't surprising at all, given how aggressively homophobic Mindgeek has always been - after all, we are talking about a website that presents a profoundly negative view of homosexuality, constantly associating it with violence, deceit, emotional abuse and cheating. Is it any wonder that they would take everything a step further and deny homosexuality altogether, presenting it as some oddity within the wider landscape of heterosexual-dominated porn?

Furthermore, since supposedly 1/3 of gay porn is viewed by women who fantasize about turning gay men straight as a form of validation, and because they believe that that would give them some "control" over the way in which sexual interactions occur, it is evident that a studio that has always been uncomfortable with gay audiences would take this as an excuse to reduce homosexuality to a mere fetish, concentrating all of their efforts on pleasing the only target audiences that they are concerned with: heterosexual women with an unhealthy fixation of "reversing" homosexuality as a means of improving their self-esteem, and bisexual men who hate homosexuals (in short, the vast majority of bisexual men).

We should also not forget that in the last 10 years or so, a bizarre discourse has been incessantly promoted, saying that gay men should somehow force themselves to be bisexual if they want to be enlightened, tolerant and have a healthy outlook in life, whereas ordinary homosexuality is a form of oppression against anyone who isn't "monosexual" or "non-gender conforming", and we ought to reject it if we are meant to be anywhere near decent human beings. This is an extremely homophobic discourse from the nefarious regressive left (which hates us just as much as the reactionary right, the neo-cons and the alt-right) has been constantly pushing on all of us, and it appears to be effective to some extent.

In short, the spaces that homosexual people have had to fight for, are being constantly eroded by other groups that have appropriated our oppression in order to eradicate us. Pornography is just a more visual and evident (and certainly less important) manifestation of this phenomenon.

As for Men.com, they will continue adding these scenes because they don't give a damn about gay people. They are a homophobic company ran by homophobic people that resent us, and they will continue pushing on their agenda because they don't care about anyone but those who are "like themselves".

I don't believe there are any gay pornstars anymore I just assume they are all bi/straight that's it.....and don't give me that bullshit about labels and fluidity please.

Men.com isn't bareback, is it?

Bi men have predominated in male porn for decades, especially the most popular male porn

Davey Wavey's porn will be the only genuine porn where homosexuality is exalted; not demeaned

Well...

Boom

I respect Dave Wavey, but I wouldn't want him to be the arbiter of my porn.

Are the harem at Cockyboys not gay? Somehow I always thought they were pretty damn gay.

Davey Wavey is new to producing porn, but at least he doesn't present homosexuality as something shameful and doesn't equate homosexual attraction with masochism. If you watch "gay porn" today there is so much masochism. Studios have a distorted idea about homosexuality.

Daxx is huge

Seems Men.com & Arad have misunderstood that female fans following a gay model on istagram are not the same as gay men who sign up and are paying members of a gay porn site. Women may follow you on instagram, but gay men pay your wages.

Exactly r367.

Given that the plot line of every single Men.com video is "Gay Guy Bob is hanging out with his Straight Friend Cody. Cody complains how horny he is now that his girlfriend is away and so Gay Bob seduces him" it's not the least bit surprising that they are introducing bi scenes.

They already have women in their gay scenes as props-- "Not in front of my salad!" and all that.

It's a way to turn on the sizable % of gay men who want to see the "seducing the straight guy" fantasy played out, as well as the bi guys who want to convince themselves you can have sex with guys and still be attractive to women.

Corbin Fisher and Sean Cody are no different and given how popular all those sites are, it must be a winning formula.

It has the lowest rating n Men.com's history. Neither Men or Arad are promoting it on their s/m accounts. So who knows, but Arad's future scene pay has in all probability halved. These gay porn stars have huge egos and actually believe their own celebrity.

When I see a pussy on a porn site, I immediately go elsewhere. I’m a gay man. Keep the women away.

I love it

R357 Were you born that mysoginist or are you getting paid for it?

Yeah, I’m glad to see the younger generation is not so hysterical about this type of thing. If you don’t like it, don’t watch it, move on. But To act like merely seeing women naked or having sex is some great offense is a ridiculous old charicature of hysterical gay men freaking out.

So, apparently, according to R373 the fact that we gay men are not attracted to the opposite sex and want to avoid having impositions made on us by the members of other communities, is a form of misogyny and I in particular, get paid for it.

And R374, I find it funny that you consider the greater tolerance of younger people for same sex attraction is positive insofar as they disregard homosexuality. On the other hand, you are obsessed with both straight and bisexual men and constantly glorify and promote them as wonderful creatures who are superior to homosexuals. Oh, and you also claim that only old people who are "hysterical gay men" feel repulsed by this! Sure...

Because it's evident that straight men would be delighted by it, wouldn't they? Homophobia isn't something in which they ever indulge, right?And let's not even talk about actresses who recoil in horror whenever they realize that a man has had anything to do with another man in a porn set (or the straight women who don't want to have anything to do with bisexual men).

You are a bisexual homophobe (in short, the average bisexual man) and I find it odd that you would feel that a) you belong in a place created by and for gay men and b) that you have a right to come here to make disparaging comments and demand that we agree with you, unless we want to be called hysterical, old and queeny.

Yes, the tolerance you aggressively demand is clearly the same tolerance that you preach - in a place where you don't belong, to boot!

Unbelievable...

Lol the raring of that abomination is 24%, yet Men said it's what the fans asked for. Also the comments on str8upgayporn are hillaire.....

R371 Transphobic trash! Gay men can have pussies too!!! /s

I don't understand why they didn't use two gay 4 pay or two bisexual guys in the scene. Most of their models are gay 4 pay or bi so why use a model who identified as gay (even though for the past year posters have claimed Arad was not gay and just used the gay excuse to defend himself against military desertion) and they create acrimony and hostility between gay fans and bisexual fans.

This to me seems like it was attention seeking troll porn.

If Men.com believe a substantial number of their members are bisexual then of course they should make porn that is inclusive for them. I don't understand why the had to shit stir and create negativity between gay men and bisexuals.

Because it generates lots of views R378. They expect some people to subscribe to their site because of it, and they also expect this to generate lots of notoriety and get their product out there.

The thing that has surprised me the most is how many so-called gay porn models have reacted - almost as if it were the most wonderful and liberating thing ever, and accusing everyone of narrow-mindedness, ignorance and bigotry. I've also been surprised by how Logan Moore, in particular, has started saying on Twitter that it's normal for gay men to sleep with women and that the negative reaction is detrimental for gay men in general... Really? OK. And then he got angry when someone called him bisexual! SMH...

Also, Arad's defense was silly - you're not as popular as I am, you don't have as many Twitter followers, I'm awesome, if you don't agree with everything I do, you're not a fan but a hater... Blah, blah, blah. But the most pathetic thing were the guys praising both Logan and Arad, saying "ignore the haters - you're awesome and so beautiful!". As if either Arad or Logan were ever going to sleep with them without a money exchange taking place, first...

Porn models are weird creatures indeed. I'm starting to think that most of them are sex addicts who will do anything or anyone just to get the thrill of an orgasm but, most importantly, so that they can get lots of attention and feel desired.

Who cares what his personal orientation is? It’s his choice, his “career.” Porn is acting, fantasy. Why are you so butt hurt and taking this seriously?

R380, not everyone is bisexual like you, and not everyone likes it - also, there is this homophobic narrative that many porn models have, about homosexuality being a form of narrow-mindedness and bisexuality being a sign of true enlightenment and something that we all should aspire to achieve... While getting angry if someone dares to say that they are not really gay.

So yes, bisexual porn is fine, but the majority of consumers of gay porn are gay men, and we are the ones who have reacted badly to a product we don't want, as any other consumer would do. It's as simple as that.

Few things are more DL than this thread's rapid deterioration into a porn star fanboi battle.

We homosexual people don't really have much out there where our sexual orientation is presented as normal. It is natural to criticise such move where a self-reported gay man has sex with a woman. We are constantly bombrded with mesages that heteroexual attraction and sex are normal and correct whereas homosexual attraction and sex are abnormal, unnatural and wrong.

He obvioiusly like men, but is he really gay or actually bisexual? Now I question his fleeing Iran.

I get there are bisexual men, but I'll ask the bi guys on the thread, what's wrong with just being gay, why isn't good enough to be just gay, why do gay men have to aspire to sex with women and bisexuality / heterosexuality in order to have greater worth? Why isn't it good enough to be just gay?

R375 They do not disregard it. They include it. Whereas acting all eww! at the mere idea of sex with women is just aping homophobia in reverse, nothing progressive about it.

Exactly

R384 Do you see the difference between "it's not for me but it's ok" and "ewww revolting! you are either exclusively gay or you are a disgusting traitor!" You are the ones telling us we need to reject opposite sex attraction in order to be accepted, because you gotta aspire to be a gold star gay who has never ever got close to disgusting fish.

Oh, come on, R387 - disgusting fish? No one used that sort of language!

Also, no one here has been shy about attacking gay men when it suited their purposes (the last three responses, including yours), so I don't see why criticism cannot be returned.

As for inclusion, as many have said before: we're all for it as long as heterosexual people start doing it as well. It would be nice for you bisexuals to loudly and aggressively demand heterosexual people to acknowledge you in the same way that you do so with the gay community, but you never, ever, ever do so. Why don't you go to forums where the majority of people are straight and call them bigots, narrow-minded and a plethora of insults, just because they don't like what they see?

Answer seriously: would anyone of you ever dare to do that? I suspect that the answer is no. Then, why do it with us gays?

Finally, what also irritates many people is this "you can be gay and sleep with women because it's nor only normal, but a highly desirable sign of open-mindedness and enlightenment and sophistication - if you don't do it or praise those who do so as gay heroes, you're a bigot in the same level as Pat Robertson". Things don't work like that, and appropriating the gay label to then complain about bi-erasure, is both unfair to gays and detrimental to bisexuals. Also, we are not exactly the same and we needn't share ALL spaces. You certainly don't need to come to ours when you already have absolute freedom to live as you wish in the heterosexual world. We can't do that, and we resent seeing our spaces limited and suffering impositions. Don't you see how what you're doing is not OK?

R375 The existence of straight men and women who are biphobic or homophobic or heteronormative does not in any way deny or disprove the idea that some gay men are just as biphobic or (surprise) heteronormative.

Nein, danke

I am homosexual and I cannot sleep with wome becase they don't turn me on. Homosexuality mean romantic and sexual attraction to the same sex. If you can have sex with the opposite sex you are not homosexual.

R383 Why the fuck would you think that a bisexual man would not need to flee?

Bisexual is not equal to heterosexual. Bisexuality does not exclude same-sex attraction, stop acting as if it does. Bisexual people face homophobia every time they express same sex attraction in exactly the same way.

R388 Dude, I called them bigots irl. Also, the basis for criticism is logic and circumstance, not who happened to aim it at who.

Straight people often act as if same-sex attraction is disgusting and it's an offense to even suppose that some of them might actually like it. Gay people often act as opposite-sex attraction is disgusting and it's an offense to even suppose that some of them might actually like it.

Yes, you can think you are gay and then discover that you would like to try sex with women. It happens. It is normal. Same way as it is normal to consider yourself straight but slowly realize/come to terms with the idea of also being attracted to men. Why are you acting as if the second point is normal (and very desirable, see straight men fantasy) but the first point is extremely improbable and highly offensive?

R388 Also plz provide an instruction to how to love freely in a heterosexual world when you are attracted not only to women but also to men? When you might have a long term male partner? Care to enlighten me on how to slip under the radar in that case? Of course, now you are going to bring up those married guys who cheat with men as if they are the only kind there is.

[quote]The thing that has surprised me the most is how many so-called gay porn models have reacted - almost as if it were the most wonderful and liberating thing ever, and accusing everyone of narrow-mindedness, ignorance and bigotry. I've also been surprised by how Logan Moore, in particular, has started saying on Twitter that it's normal for gay men to sleep with women and that the negative reaction is detrimental for gay men in general... Really? OK. And then he got angry when someone called him bisexual! SMH...

Not surprised by Moore, he had expressed an interest in getting into straight porn.

Logan Moore in one post goes on anti-gay rant about how he thinks everyone should be either bisexual or straight and gays are the worst people in the world.

Then next tweet his promoting his appearance at a gay pride event. The guy is a typical narcissistic vapid anti-gay asswipe.

I used to think Logan was a sweetie. Now he does nasty sex

Who is Logan Moore? Can you post some his crap?

R393, you have said it yourself: criticism is based on logic and circumstance, but those two elements differ greatly based on each individual's perspective. Also, no one is perfect. If you criticize others, get ready to realize that you also have traits that can elicit criticism.

Second, I have never said that the fact that some latently bisexual men realize that they like men is highly desirable, while the opposite is an abomination. Reality is what it is, and we have no other option but to accept it, because no amount of complaining will change it. Bisexual people do exist, but they erase themselves - not us. Also, cheating men are pigs regardless of whether they cheat on wives or husbands, and independently of the gender of those they cheat with. I have never said that only bisexual men who are married are unfaithful.

Furthermore, that imposing certain products to an audience that is averse to them is unfair and bad business practice. If bisexual porn were so popular, bisexual sites would have the highest membership rates of all and they would be all the rage - they don't, and they are not. Whomever producers and models at MEN pushed for this, should know that you cannot push what you like on your audience, and then get offended when they don't like it, as if they owed you anything.

I am also saying that promoting this idea that it's normal for gay men to want to be with women, and that not accepting this as the pinnacle of eroticism and open-mindedness is a sign of lack of intelligence and bigotry, is both inadequate, offensive and obtuse. In the same way that pestering straight guys to sleep with gay men is creepy, desperate, disrespectful and pathetic. It goes both ways, obviously. The only difference is that gay men are criticized for doing this as predatory and lacking in dignity (they are), whereas women who relentlessly pester gay men to sleep with them, and the bisexual men who constantly promote this, are seen as just cute and fun gals and great guys who are just open-minded. Double standards do exist.

Finally, BISEXUAL people desire both men and women. Don't appropriate the "gay" label and then complain about bi-erasure and prejudice when people tell you that they see a dichotomy between your statements and your behaviour. Also, don't try to tell people that they are bigoted just because of this, or that they are unenlightened and ignorant. Especially when so many bisexual men in particular, seem obsessed with being accepted by straights and view relationships with women as the pinnacle of awesomeness, and frequently, if not constantly, state that they are superior to gay men, and more evolved than us, in this regard.

As for bisexual men who are in relationships with men, when you are in this position you are subjected to homophobia because people assume that you are gay. It's your responsibility to let them know that you are not. People don't have the gift of telepathy and if you don't make yourself visible, they won't become aware of your needs, struggles and concerns. However, they will only discriminate you if you are in a same sex relationship - never in the opposite way. Also, I'd love to see you bisexuals aggressively demand acceptance from heterosexual people as you do with gays and lesbians... But that, of course, will never, ever, ever happen.

Anyway, thank you for this discussion. I appreciate your point of view and thank you for keeping everything civil, which is not common in DL. Contrarily to what you might think, I don't have any problems with bisexual people as long as they stay in their own spaces.

The normal for homosexual men is to be with men because we are attracted to men; not women. Any claims in the opposite direction are reinforcing homophobia.

R399 One of the cornerstones of this argument is the idea that anything that deals with man-to-man love and sex is "gay". Whereas it is not gay, it is both gay and bisexual. A simple example, you see two men kissing? Are they gay? Maybe, maybe not.

In exactly the same way the whole heterosexual culture is shared by bisexuals (pan fluid doesn't matter as long as they are able to be attracted to both) as well. They also need to be told that. Every time a man and a woman kiss, it is not only a heterosexual picture.

That said, what is a bisexual space? If we stay with the traditional idea of 2 people involved in sex or relationship? If a bisexual man is involved with another man, people call it gay space. If a bisexual man is involved with a woman, people call it straight space. What is bisexual space and how does one tell the difference?

So not gay but bisexual. Why did he say he was gay then?

For those asking about Logan Moore's comments.

More of Moore's brilliant musings.

When will these people stop trying to make gay/homosexual include sexual attraction to the opposite sex? Just stop. You're bi fine, just stop trying to appropriate the word 'gay' whilst simultaneously complaining about bierasure.

R404 I think some of them might be using gay = LGBT, kind of like queer is now used.

This is why I only watch amateur porn now, at least I can be relatively sure the guys having sex with each other are actually gay.

The scene has a 25% rating. Arad's other scenes rage from 65% to 95%, with all but one scoring at least in the 80s.

I hope this is the end of the folly.

He said he was gay and fled because there is no future in Iran for gay men but gay men don't have sex with women R392

R407, regarding statistics, I found these comments on Str8UpGayPron interesting:

[quote] "for being such an 'unpopular scene', it's been watched 400% more times than the scene released the day before, 33% more than the scene released 2 days before, and more people like it cumulatively, currently 109, than the Jake Porter/Tobias scene from 3 days before, 104. The scene between Andy Star and Manuel Skye, two fantastic performers, has been viewed about 56k times and it was released in February. The bi scene is at 28k views in less than a day. Something to consider. The people who like something aren't going to be nearly as vocal as the people who strongly dislike something."

[quote] "356 votes out of 30k views. [Only] 1% of viewers took the time to give it a down vote."

[quote] "Today's scene has just as many likes as the average scene from men, there is just a very vocal, very displeased group of viewers, as well ... Anybody with any sort of background in retail knows that dissatisfied people are much louder than satisfied people."

R409, read the answers to those comments - they completely counter what he is saying. The person writing that is a straight-apologist who continuously attacks gay men and would go to any lengths to spin this as something positive.

He is the same guy who calls gay men misogynistic for not liking women and claims that since there are lesbian and threesome scenes in Brazzers (in which men NEVER sexually interact with each other), then it's great and awesome to include women in gay porn. He has also failed to justify how is it that the response has been so overwhelmingly negative beyond a few phrases of sales-speak.

I repeat: if so many people wanted bi porn, bi sites would be the most successful and they would dominate the market. They don't and the members have spoken, whether some people like it or not.

I don't know many gay porn studios, but I think I would give a chance to Davey Wavey's products in the field. Just give me more muscular men since I'm not attracted to the so-called twink guys.

At least with him you always see he celebrates homosexual attraction.

I'm not surprised that the scene has been so watched. If I were a subscriber, I would have checked too, if only to see how gay-identified actors perform when their partner is female, not because straight sex or bi threesomes arouse me. So, I would have given a low rating, too.

If men.dot had a scene where one of their more popular performers had sex with a goat, it would have many views, too. This is because of how unusual the scenario is, not because people get off to that and want more scenes like it.

Can anyone post a link to the comments quoted by r409? I want to downvote them.

R413, that is very much true. But of course, some self-hating gay men, bi guys and women will go to ANY lengths to prove that gay men are not really gay.

Again-- the premise of EVERY SINGLE MEN.COM scene is that a straight guy is seduced into having sex with a gay guy.

Every one.

They are one of the only studios that bothers to create these fake scenarios and force bad acting out of their porn actors.

"Dude! My wife will be home in an hour!"

"That's plenty of time to have some fun, brah!!!"

So continuing that fantasy by having the actors have sex with women too is completely in keeping with the theme of the site.

It's more surprising they haven't done it before, a la Corbin Fisher.

[quote]I repeat: if so many people wanted bi porn, bi sites would be the most successful and they would dominate the market. They don't and the members have spoken, whether some people like it or not.

r410, I actually don't understand why bi porn isn't a bigger deal than gay porn. Every study shows that bisexuals vastly outnumber homosexuals, leading one to think the porn produced would reflect that.

I have a question for the bisexuals: how would you feel if straight/gay people came to your porn sites and tried to dictate the content?

R417 What is bi porn? Unless it's a threesome or more-some? If there are only two people having sex, how can you say it's specifically bi porn?

A large percentage of gay men watch straight porn, which necessarily has women. In fact, threads on straight porn are popular here.

R410 That's because bisexual people who aren't into group sex usually watch so-called gay porn and so-called straight porn, is that really difficult to understand? Or are you under the impression that being bisexual automatically means you are only ever able to perceive sex with both a man and a woman at the same time?

R498 He could have changed his opinion on his sexuality since then.

Even so, the point was, a bisexual man would also need to flee such a country. Bisexual doesn't equal "always happily fucking a woman". That's straight.

No, R410, you seem to be wrong. I skimmed those replies too. Most of them didn’t “counter” the original comment about the stats, but went off on hysterical tangents about “anti-gay propaganda”. Jeez, it’s a silly one-off porn scene starring 3 feckless whores, nothing more, nothing less.

I also didn’t see the part where you say that OP called gay men “misogynists for not liking women”. Out of curiosity, I did a search of the comments – and that OP didn’t even seem to use the word “misogynist” at all.

Personally, I think a comment like ‘I don’t get turned on by X, Y and Z, don’t show these kind of scenes again’ would be normal. But hysterical comments from that thread like “that’s disgusting!”, “I was about to throw up!”, “just viewing a naked woman is enough to make me physically ill!” are a bit OTT.

It’s the same if a straight guy simply says he's not attracted to gay guys and prefers to not view any bi scenes – that’s normal. But if a straight guy goes off on a rant, screeching: ‘Sex scenes showing gay guys are disgusting! It’s vomit-inducing! It’s so vile! Just looking at a naked flaming gay guy makes me want to throw up!’ – that’s clearly OTT and spilling into homophobic territory.

[quote] If men.dot had a scene where one of their more popular performers had sex with a goat, it would have many views, too.

There are many illegal bestiality videos circulating on the internet. Most people simply avoid clicking on them. I gather most people don't want to see even a second of SC's Tanner raping a Siamiese cat that's screaming its poor lungs out.

R422, exactly. If it’s not your thing, don’t watch it. But why be extra about vaginas, women, etc? Just because you’re not attracted to something doesn’t mean you find it gross or revolting.

R422, some of those replies did counter that person's argument. Many of them were exaggerate and extreme, but some simply stated that this person was taking literal figures and interpreting them in a manner that suits his own beliefs and interests (see the example below). In the other thread, he was defending those who claimed that not liking women in gay porn is a form of extreme misogyny and whatnot...

For God's sake, that is ridiculous.

Also, if a straight guy wants to say that same-sex activity is repugnant and makes him want to vomit, he is free to do so, as long as he doesn't come to gay forums to say it. Who cares? People get overemotional sometimes. It's a pity, but disregarding people's opinions just because they don't express them how you'd like them to be expressed, or they don't do it as calmly as you'd like (and they don't agree with you), reeks of arrogance.

As for R424, some people express things much more exaggerately than others. The matter is not whether people say "that's disgusting" or not, but the underlying message that we are being fed: gay is relative and a choice, gays have the obligation to be welcoming to everything and everyone just because they've been oppressed, and if you dislike something you have the obligation to keep silent, unless it affects some right winger or a person who is meant to be hated by the so-called "intelligentsia". Again, sheer arrogance.

Oh the str8upgayporn site has even more hysterical responses - one of the posters even said dull opportunist Arad went through gay conversion therapy lol.

[quote]A large percentage of gay men watch straight porn, which necessarily has women. In fact, threads on straight porn are popular here.

There's no proof of that.

Ever heard of those studies where some tube and wired are hooked to a guy's penis to see how he reacts to erotic stimulus? Study after such study prove that gay men are much less aroused by straight porn than gay porn, so it is hard to believe that there are gay men out there who are paying subscription fee to watch heterosex.

Now, if you're talking about gay guys idly watching straight porn after happening upon a video, or checking how this G4P performer fares with female partners, that's more believable. If you stick around the gay porn portion of tube websites like Pornhub, you still get bombarded with straight porn, after all, so a little curiosity is normal.

That doesn't mean that gay men want to pay a subscription fee so that a studio can produce more straight or bi porn.

A recent study shows that 21% of straight men have recently watched gay porn. I doubt, however, that that would mean that 21% of straight men want to pay a subscription fee for gay or bi porn websites.

[quote]There are many illegal bestiality videos circulating on the internet. Most people simply avoid clicking on them. I gather most people don't want to see even a second of SC's Tanner raping a Siamiese cat that's screaming its poor lungs out.

Most gay men also avoid clicking on straight or bi porn videos, doofus.

But if video is staring them right in the face, and it involves a popular gay performer, of course they're going to be intrigued. It doesn't mean they like it or want to see more of it, imbecile.

I will bet you that if a gay porn blog uncovered a video of Arad fucking a goat, people who know him well as a performer would feel hella curious and would click on it big time. That doesn't mean they will like what they see.

Since you're so invested in convincing yourself and us that gay men love women in their porn, then how do you explain the ridiculous rating that scene received? 25%??

Why does this obsessive bisexual retard - who's written r419, r423, and 57 other replies - want to speak for, and to, gay men about what we like? Go to hell.

R428, the high viewership rates are supposed to be because of overwhelming interest, and the negative votes are due to some obsessive individuals who hate women and are biphobic... Haven't you gotten the narrative yet?

But you are right: people have watched the scene out of morbid curiosity, or simply to see what all the controversy was about. Also, Men counts all views as valid, regardless of whether members are watching or some random person goes in to see why people made such a fuss about it.

However, as you can see, that is meant to defy all logic, because gay men LOVE heterosexual porn and women. And please, R427, don't post studies that go against the message that is being promoted in here: that is both biphobic and misogynistic!

R429, he's our resident AA brodude, who hates being gay, has convinced himself that he's "fluid", and was clearly fucked up and indoctrinated by religion.

Don't you dare say that, R431: you're being misogynistic, overdramatic and biphobic! LOL!

Hahaha. Could I give a shit, R432?

Answer: NO!

#sorrynotsorry

Thank God you don't, R433.... Oh wait, no! We're meant to be all woke and mindful of biphobia and misogyny among privileged gay men!

You're a terrible person! And probably you're not a masc bro who bangs chicks and only "bonds" with bros - no homo!

Ah, the madness of "fluid" and "bi" men who hate gay men and want to lecture us about how we ought to be, in order to gain their all-indispensable acceptance...

I guess I am a terrible person and will have to accept that. I'll take comfort in getting acquainted with as much beautiful penis and muscular bubble butt as I want. Oh sorry, was that "too gay"? As they say on the street.... my bad.

Better than trying to convince myself I'm "fluid" and awkwardly flirting with women, yet avoiding becoming intimate with them at all costs, because, you know, you're going to be expected to perform at some point. Involuntary celibacy, indeed.

Not wanting to have sex with someone does not equal discrimination. People have the right to their own sexuality, whatever it is, and bisexual men should be telling gay men who the should and shouldn't being having sex wit. The notion that if a gay man doesn't want to have sex with a woman then he is misogynistic is ridiculous and dangerous.

This didn't turn out too well for him. Arad Loselose.

OLD white gay Men sound like insecure dinosaurs with their tired hysteria over this scene and male bisexuality in general. They need to get over being butt hurt and threatened over male bisexuality.

R438 okay . whatever you say bud.

Still not a single person is able to explain to me what "bi porn" is if it only involves two people and not a threesome.

[quote]OLD white gay Men

....and there you have it. The go-to phrase that you can expect some of our illustrious Dataloungers of color to rely on once they're backed into a wall during an argument or debate.

[quote] doofus … Since you're so invested in convincing yourself and us that gay men love women in their porn

R428, show me where I said that. Go on then, show me. Because I didn’t – you’re arguing with yourself, like a schizophrenic person.

[quote] I will bet you that if a gay porn blog uncovered a video of Arad fucking a goat, people who know him well as a performer would feel hella curious and would click on it big time. That doesn't mean they will like what they see.

R428, if you actually clicked to view even a minute of a video of a gay performer raping a goat (it’s rape because goats don’t want to be fucked in the ass by humans) – then you’re the “doofus”, not me. And a weirdo too.

Exactly r442

None of the most prominent online gay magazines have touched upon this news. Queerty, InstinctMagazine, PinkNews, etc. they seem to avoid the topic...

No, R425, that OP was stating neutral stats. As for your false claim about him saying “gays who don’t like women [sexually] are misogynists” – he wrote the exact opposite, from your own link: “Not finding anything sexually gratifying about a vagina is not misogynistic. Saying that vaginas are disgusting and make you want to vomit is misogynistic.” So why are you lying, R425? You either didn't read the full comment or you're intentionally projecting your own scaremongering thoughts onto others.

[quote] the underlying message that we are being fed: gay is relative and a choice

You are really overthinking this, making it out to be a 'conspiracy’ or ‘tragedy’, where there is none. It’s only a pron scene (and only a one-off), for heaven's sake. Nowhere in that scene does it imply that “being gay” is a “choice". But specifically in the porn / whoring-on-camera / escorting industries, various sexual acts, especially FOR MONEY – are a choice. That’s why you see some guys in porn (esp. straight-leaning bi guys) who are clearly not into the sex at all, with flaccid cocks, robotically sleep-walking through it, just doing it for the cash. Many of them are simply whores, darling.

[quote] if a straight guy wants to say that same-sex activity is repugnant and makes him want to vomit, he is free to do so … Who cares?

He's definitely free to say so. And others are likewise free to rightly point out that such a straight guy is a homophobic asshole with no filter. That's how the 1st Amendment works. Everyone thinks they're free to spew hysterical 'verbal diarrhea' - but the 1st Amendment is only a defense in court, it's not a defense against being socially considered an asshole.

R425, apparently you do care a lot. You wrote 12 essay-length posts (ca. 6 pages in length) on this thread, more than any other poster. Jeez, there's no need to be so obsessed with this triviality - it’s only a silly one-off porn scene starring 3 whores.

[quote]Still not a single person is able to explain to me what "bi porn" is if it only involves two people and not a threesome.

r440, why would a bunch of homosexuals explain to you what constitutes 'bi porn'? That's the whole point, we're not interested in it. Ask some of your bi friends or just google it.

I must wonder who the next actor up will be, and if they'll be as "controversial" or not. I can't see them having just filming one for no reason, they were almost certainly planning to make a series of it...unless they feel this has been such a garbage-fire that they take the financial hit and just never post the other bi scenes they have filmed

R446 You simply can't. Because unless a sex scene involves more than two people, there is no way to tell.

r445, real talk, what exactly is it you are trying to accomplish here?

Homosexual men, in various degrees of articulation, have expressed the desire to have their sexual orientation respected. We do not want women in gay porn because we are not attracted to them, period. This is not misogynistic nor biphobic, it is an expression of our sexual orientation. We are not 'old fashioned' or 'limited' or 'uptight' or 'close minded', what we are is homosexual.

No one cares that bisexual porn is being produced. Heck, create as much as you want. Simply put it on affiliated site so that those who are interested in such material can patronise it directly. Can you provide a valid objection to this?

I know many of the bisexuals here do not understand the significance of this issue for gay men. There is this notion of 'what's the big deal/just skip these scenes/stop being so uptight'. The reason you can never truly understand this issue or why it matters is quite simple: you are not homosexual and you will never know what it means to grow up as a homosexual.

Of course, the inverse is also true, homosexuals will never truly know what it means to be bisexual and how that informs a person's development. When a bisexual tells me that he's sexually attracted to men and women but can only fall in love with a woman or when a bisexual explains that their attraction can fluctuate over time, I can try to understand intellectually and respect it, but I'll new truly know what that feels like. My point is, we're not asking you to understand, because you can never truly understand. What we are asking is that you please respect our feelings on the matter and stop trying to impose your desires on others who have made it clear we reject them.

What financial hit, R447? Their revenue is not generated by likes, but by access fees and perhaps a bit of ad revenue. How many posters here are actual subscribers that left Men?

I left Men some time ago. Not because of this (couldn't care less, such a trifling issue), but because my fave performer left too. I only subscribed to watch him.

Really, the best way for Men to do this is to do a poll of what content their subscribers want. They can then apportion scenes (by volume) based on the votes. If 90% want one thing - then 90% of the content will reflect that. If 10% vote for smthg else (bi, tranny, fetishes, whatever) - then 10% of the scenes will show that. Problem solved.

R449 When two men fuck, they can be bisexual or gay in any combination. Ergo, gay and bisexual porn are not two different beasts entirely. You are still trying to pretend as if same-sex attraction and eroticism is exclusively gay and bisexuals should fuck off and go create their own art or entertainment. Except once again, if two bisexuals of the same biological sex fuck and it's filmed, you will never know the difference.

The only kind of porn that could truly be called bisexual is porn depicting sex between three or more people of different biological sex where everyone fucks everyone else.

Bisexual men who watch porn are a big part of the audience of any so-called gay site. They aren't 'guests" there who impose. It's the kind of sex they engage in personally in their real lives as well.

TL;DR Sex between two men is not exclusively gay. It's just marketed that way because of bi erasure. People screaming about the need for some special bi space where bi people get engaged in sexual acts - preferably with a huge banner that says "careful! bisexuality ahead" - are being unreasonable.

It's like those people who are like "hey lets fuck" - "no wait you aren't gay? bye". Sure being bi must give you a different kind of penis. And a different way to fuck. Instantly recognizable. Except if you nodded and smiled instead, that guy would have never guessed.

[Quote] I must wonder who the next actor up will be, and if they'll be as "controversial" or not. I can't see them having just filming one for no reason, they were almost certainly planning to make a series of it...unless they feel this has been such a garbage-fire that they take the financial hit and just never post the other bi scenes they have filmed.

R447 When downloaded, the complete scene is labeled "The Contest Scene 1", which means there are more planned in the series most likely.

[quote] not attracted to them, period. This is not misogynistic nor biphobic, it is an expression of our sexual orientation. We are not 'old fashioned' or 'limited' or 'uptight' or 'close minded',

R449, there you go again, arguing with yourself like a schizophrenic person. You're weirdly responding specifically to my post at R445 by inventing words and made-up sentences that I NEVER said. Show me where you think I used any of your 'cited' words - go on, show me, you loony person.

You also seem to lack reading comprehension (or you can't follow threads). I was one of the first posters above who said lack of attraction is obviously not misogynistic. But you keep on beating that dead horse strawman argument (which you're trying to shove into my mouth) - because you desperately want to play victim, otherwise you won't have anything to rant about.

I noticed you've already been called out on the Nicole Scherzinger thread for replying to a poster by bizarrely arguing with yourself (by projecting your completely different words and arguments into that specific poster's mouth). So quit it already, R449 - I'm the 2nd person today to tell you this on 2 separate threads.

^The last paragraph was for R425, not R449.

R454, are you insane? I was going to answer to you, but I read your last message and was shocked... If you look at my posting history, I have never argued with anyone in the Nicole Scherzinger thread, nor been called out for anything in there. If you're going to attack people, at least do it properly.

And yes, I tend to write a lot about most subjects... Oh well, what can we do about it? If you don't like it, simply SKIP my posts...

r451, fine, let's call it all-male porn. Some homosexuals are expressing their opinions as consurmers and objecting to the inclusion of women in all-male porn sites. They have no objection to opposite-sex porn in whatever combination it takes, they simly think that it should be placed on a separate site so that those who are intersted can patronise it themselves. Do you have any objection to this? If so, why?

r453, maybe I could have made it clearer, only the first sentence in that post was specifically directed at you. The rest of it was my general reaction to how gay men have been portrayed for having objections to this matter, both here at DL and other sites.

[quote]When two men fuck, they can be bisexual or gay in any combination.

What does that mean? How many combinations could there be of 2 men?

R440 I can answer based upon what I've noticed off cover art and contents of porn labeled bisexual, as well as porn I watched as a gayling before getting access to same-sex only porn.

The label seems to be applied by the industry exclusively to MMF scenes where the two men engage in same-sex behavior, and, if it's a full-length video, then they usually mixed a FF and/or MM scene into it somewhere. At least that's what I noticed.

Although MFF should seem to be labeled bisexual, I've yet to see it labeled that. I've yet to see females-only porn porn labeled bisexual or male-only porn labeled bisexual, although it'd seem to be of interest to bisexuals. I've yet to see group sex where it's mf and mf and mf labeled bisexual, whether they swingers who switch and put their dicks where another dick's been or are all having sex in the same room at the same time watching one another (which strikes me as homoerotic). I've yet to see any number of males with one female (like bukkake and gang-bangs) labeled bisexual, although same idea, that their dicks go wherever another dicks been (which I consider also at least homoerotic) or they're all getting off together.

If it's MMF and no same-sex, it's labeled straight DP, whether they're doing DAP or DVP or not, all of which strikes me as rather homosexual once their junks touching.

The MMF with Arad at Men.com follows the model I've seen, which as others have posted, Men's been edging towards slowly by having females in scenes, then that scene that starts with Connor Maguire screwing a woman (Better than my sister?).

None of this reflects the actors' orientations, to my knowledge, just how the industry seems to label and categorize.

R458

gay guy + bi guy

gay guy + gay guy

bi guy + bi guy

R459 I'll reply to you fully in a few, but yeah, all that 3+ sex where you have several guys with the same woman or women and they take care not to touch each other even though their dicks and mouths travel the same places is homoerotic too not only heteroerotic and taking pains not to label it as such (and making sure they don't ever truly interact) is bordering on homophobia. It's like "yeah we like to do sexually charged things close to each other but no no no no NO we can't ever be not straight no with a dose of no way, how could you ever have such an outrageous idea?"

I actually had a girl invite me into a casual three-way with her and another guy (they weren't a couple), and she was like please make sure you two are only about me, don't touch each other too much. I asked the guy if he was straight and he said, well to be honest I'm not, why would I want to be in bed with another guy if I were straight. I admitted I wasn't either and let me tell you she was not pleased. No three-way for us, she left in a huff. She'd love to be in bed with two men practically sharing body liquids but the idea of these two men more openly enjoying each other's bodies as well was revolting to her. Well, her loss, the guy was cute and smart, too, we ended up in a hotel room without her.

Back to the point yes the media tries to distance itself from the "straight" side too. It is different with women because female bisexuality is more accepted, especially where the content is supposed to be titillating, but for men... ugh any hint of sexual fluidity and same sex attraction is ridiculously concealed. You can't just casually show a guy who's into guys too. It has to be a big deal with borders all around it and a special notice in front.

A scene with just 2 guys having sex is gay. End of story. It is NOT bisexual. 2 men fucking is not bisexual in any way. It is gay.

So when two bisexual men have sex with each other, they become gay for the duration of it?

It's like like these people saying that you can't say there aren't lesbians who like penis >.<

People trying to redefine what homosexuality means.

Conner McGuire has done several bi scenes without any of these which leads me to believe the reason this caused such a mess is quiet industry dislike for both Arad and the Macnamara dude dating the overrated Diego Sans.

[quote]So when two bisexual men have sex with each other, they become gay for the duration of it?

r463, No.

A man and a woman having sex are engaging in a heterosexual sex act , regardless of the sexual orientation of the individual participants.

2 men or 2 women having sex are engaging in a homosexual sex act , regardless of the sexual orientation of the individual participants.

3 participants with a mix of genders all having sex together (where everyone interacts with each other) are engaging in a bisexual sex act, regardless of the sexual orientation of the individual participants.

The number of participants may increase but the principle remains the same.

Exactly

Reading his insta and twitter accounts, Arad Winwin comes off as an obnoxious full of himself twat.

I like him

Will women steal gay porn from gay men?

Share it

Disappointed.

R466 Yeah but that the definition of the sex act itself not the participants. People,however, use it to define the participants.

r473, what's your point? You want the world to stop automatically thinking that two men together are gay because it excludes the possibility they may be bi? That sounds like a job for the bisexual community. Go for it.

R474 My point is that it's pointless to complain while appropriating labels and also demanding bisexual people take their sex (which is literally impossible to define unless it involves more than two partners) to their own spaces.

Well, it looks like bisexual scenes are going to continue being produced at MEN, whether people like them or not. Cliff jensen has already said on Twitter that he's been booked to shoot a bi scene next month...

So much for listening to viewers comments, huh?

Cool! I’m here for it! 👍🏾

[quote][R474] My point is that it's pointless to complain while appropriating labels and also demanding bisexual people take their sex (which is literally impossible to define unless it involves more than two partners) to their own spaces.

r475, but no one is talking about if the men in these scenes identify as straight/bi/gay, they are saying they don't want women in gay porn. All they are saying is that the porn with women should appear on another site, what exactly is the problem with that?

I don't dislike women; this just feels as both Arad not being true about his sexual orientation and also it looks in a way like conversion therapy.

When I watch "gay porn" I want to see two men loving and having sex together. My homosexuality does not demand a woman in it.

He has dead eyes.

But... But R479, that isn't inclusive, open-minded and enlightened. Also, it isn't what masc-4-masc bi bros in this thread want - and remember: they are the vast majority in here, according to them.

So please, stop being biphobic and misogynistic by saying that you're not irresistibly attracted to women (ALL of whom are "allies"), because that's harmful to other gay men, world peace, civility and intelligence.

Thank you.

r481, I know you are joking but they really do think like that, that we're killjoys for objecting to women in gay porn. That guy Logan Moore was hilarious, whining that gay men objecting to this makes it more difficult for bi and 'gay' bros to hook up with women when the mood hits.

R482, I have written extensively in this thread (see my posting history) and I have reached the conclusion that it doesn't matter. We are wasting time an effort presenting our valid and well-developed reasoning to people who have already made up their minds, are immensely proud of their self-masturbatory homophobia (which they present as a crusade against the homosexual oppression of bisexual men and women in general), and the only thing we have left is to mock them for what they are: trolls who feel validated and think that they are "reinforcing" their masculinity by attacking openly gay men.

Just IGNORE them and don't let this affect you. As for Logan Moore, he is just a random bisexual whore who will say and do anything for likes, notoriety and Twitter/Instagram/Facebook subscribers. Who cares? We all know that gay men don't want to sleep with women and that there's nothing "liberating", "enlightened" and "open-minded" about their discourse. It's homophobia disguised as "gays are bi-phobes" and "gays are misogynistic" victimism. In many other cases, it's just empty posturing because they want everyone to know how daring, outrageous and carefree they are, and how they're not afraid to do and things that will shock everyone around them.

Let's just have fun and direct out time and resources to laugh, be positive and support those who truly support us. It's as simple as that. :)

We've already given MEN what they wanted, which is lots of publicity and notoriety... And for what? An opportunistic midget with a tiny dick, a ratty old whore and a butterball. Let's just ignore it, move on and support other studios.

R483 Agree with everything (especially about giving MEN.com clicks etc - its become clear that this is a stunt and the more people talk about it the more they will do it. I mean I had never heard of them as I just watch xtube/myvidster stuff) apart from Logan moore being bi. Looking at him/ his twitter its clear he is gay as a goose. He just clearly fetishize men who fuck women and maybe want to be like them. Same with that 'bicurious' bottom Griffin Burrows or whatever his name is. Obsessed.

Also, why dont they just do it and shut up about it then? maybe that will bring them back down to earth. Pussy isnt that great, been there done that. No hate to bisexual or straight men but I just dont get it. Plus I feel like I can have it all with a guy. You can have fem, short, tall, hairy, smooth, tight bubble ass, submissive, dom, big cock etc. Woman seem so plain jane.......but then I am gay so of course I think that lmao.

MEN (and many other porn sites actually) often don’t seem to care about their gay viewers and their viewing preferences. Shocking, I know, but it’s true. Let’s not be naïve and make it into some kind of ‘civil rights’ issue, like R483. It’s the PORN business – one of the sleaziest, most exploitative, manipulative industries out there. It's prostitution-on-camera and generally all most people care about there is cold cash.

MEN is obviously trying to corner the growing bi market. They likely knew full well that this would ruffle feathers with some viewers. The whole porn industry knows this (e.g. some previous complaints about Arpad Miklos’ bi scene). And porn bosses don’t seem to give a flying fuck. They want to get that bi cash, even if it means pissing off and losing some of their gay-content-only viewers. It’s a financial gamble of course, but it seems many porn bosses decided it’s worth it. They made the business decision to diversify their market cap and get more revenue from different sources / groups.

There were other complaints that were similarly ignored by the porn industry. E.g. to stop the G4P craze – i.e. to hire more actual gay guys (who might actually enjoy it) instead of so many bi guys (many of whom just do it robotically for the cash and even bring their wives on set). Did anyone listen to those complaints? Nope.

There were also complaints to various studios to feature more black guys. Were those complaints taken on board? Nope.

In both above cases, the bosses’ financial incentives overrode those complaints – because there’s a more lucrative market for Caucasian G4Pers.

I don't really know many studios that produce gay erotica and porn, but I always observe that they want to cling onto any idea of heterosexuality that they can.

If you know AllericanGuys we all know they produce erotic content or gay men, but if you browse the site they present it as material for women.

R486 Its like Helix. Their big paying base is het women, or gay trans bois. They pander hard to that shit.

R485, the points you present are just as valid as mine. Just to clarify one thing, I never presented it as some civil rights issue; I've only said that the way in which everything has been presented was highly homophobic.

I am surprised by your claim that there is a huge untapped bi-market with lots of potential, to be honest - if there were, many sites would already have exploited it years ago, so I'm not to sure about that. In fact, the abundance of bi porn produced in Eastern Europe doesn't generate anywhere near as much interest as straight/gay content; otherwise, mixed-content sites would be all the rage, and they are not.

Anyway, moving on... It's sort of a nice day.

R478 Porn depicting sex between men is not inherently gay or somehow "belonging" to the gay part of the audience.

R482 Well if a woman is convinced that a man trying to hook up with her can't really want her sexually but is trying to conduct some sort of "conversion therapy" on himself... I imagine it would make it difficult.

R483 And that's exactly what I meant in my comments in this thread. The moment you say, hey, it's okay to enjoy women sexually as well as men. You don't have to reject that. You can enjoy both if you want to. You are free to do that. The moment you say so, you are suddenly homophobic no matter who you are, even if you openly date men.

R484 And you sir are just a walking stereotype. It's clear to you what his sexuality because you project your own fetishes onto him? Please. How many times did I have to tell people like you to fuck off with their projections.

It's actually pretty fucking offensive to suggest that a gay actor will enjoy having sex for money with random dudesjust because of his sexual orientation.

R488 Not everyone is into group sex even if they are bi or fluid.

R492 Someones awfully highly strung and low key sociopath, jeez. Also, not projecting anything, Logan identifies as gay as far as I know....but then I dont spend my time obsessing over pornstars. As for "projecting my own fetishes onto him" I dont even know what to say to that, yikes. What, simply stating the fact that many 'gay' men obsess over men who fuck women is offensive and contributes to the 'walking stereotype'? I mean half of gay porn is built on men not being 'gay' but having sex with men. This behaviour is held aloft and yeah, is highkey homophobic mate. Its not new, regulatory or insightful.

Bisexuals exist, bisexuals are entitled to their own porn, bisexuals can have great fulfilling love lives...like what else you want me to say bro? Most of the flak here has been due to the fact that its also 'fluidity/bisexuality'/ misogyny etc that is always pushed onto gay men. Wake me up when Jonny Sins is getting D'ped on brazzers. When there is an outrage at straight men being phallophobic at not wanting to watch homosexual intercourse, that they are closed minded for not sucking cock etc etc. Its also a backlash at the fact a performer who has made a big deal out of being gay is doing the scene. You cant swing a cat without hitting a 'str8', bi, g4p in gay porn, so why him? It reeks of a stunt.

R495 Didn't you just say you determined his "real" sexuality by looking at him and his social media?

Fluidity and bisexuality aren't pushed onto gay men. Quite the opposite. Gay men (not all of them obviously but quite a lot) reject and ridicule fluidity and bisexuality as much as straight men do, especially if they encounter it in fellow gay-identifying men or non-heterosexual men in general.

Yeah, on the backlash. It is the reverse of what happens in the hetero sociaty. If a straight man discovers bisexuality in himself, the straight society is enraged. Exactly the same thing happens when a gay man decides to try doing the bi thing. You would consider it okay if he were previously straight, but you see him as "backing out of being gay" as if it is some kind of vow he should have held onto until death.

R496 you live in a very strange world bro. Love how you accuse me of projecting and then make some pretty dumb cop outs at what you 'assume' I think. Nah, dont really care for 'straight' guys going 'bi'. As I said, I dont fetishize them like alot of gay men, so their actions have no bearing on a man who struggled to come to terms with being gay and am now pretty happy to acknowledge that fact. You seem to think you have a pretty great insight into how all gay mens minds work huh? Dont see how you can claim that anymore than I can to my armchair analysis of bisexuals I have met. Not gonna bother responding to you anymore as you seem transfixed. Good luck with whatever you have going on, you seem to have an unhealthy chip on your shoulder in regards to gay men. Its pretty sad. But whatever, its your life. I aint the one losing sleep bro............

R495 Also, what's offensive is people like you who see opposite-sex attraction in a man who also dates men as not equal, normal and genuine but a twisted product of fetish, self-hatred and denial. " He just clearly fetishize men who fuck women and maybe want to be like them" - your words, no? And let him do it, enjoy the inferior pussy, then he'll come back to earth, stop pretending and swear his life on never ever touching a woman again.

R496 But now you are trolling. Fluidity and bisexuality are pushed onto gay men in a way that it isnt to straight men If you cant even acknowledge that then you are off your rocker. Look at any lgbtq news site and there are articles upon articles. Think pieces on how limiting the identity of gay is and so on. To ignore that is just stupid.

I am homosexual, I am attracetd to men and have no desire for women sexually and romantically. Why don't I have that tired fluidity some of you talk about so much?

R498 Yikes bro, Im surprised they let you out of the padded room you seem to be locked in. Bizarre world you live in. "Swear off women" YIIIIIKES. Paranoid pyscho.

R499 In all my long experience with the LGBT community I mostly saw the opposite: the pressure on bisexual or sexually fluid men to be "completely gay" as well as bisexual/fluid women pressured to become "fully lesbian". To choose a side, so to say. And stick to it. It is the absolute worst for those who have once identified as gay or lesbian (often when young and needing support from a group), but now feel like their sexuality is not quite that. The support is often simply dropped as if they stopped existing,

Hmmmmmm

He says he’s had girlfriends in the past implying he was able to have intercourse with women no problem and that’s why he was able to perform in a bi scene. Mentions he could do another bi scene be it’s all about the money but could not do a straight scene because he’s gay. Which implies that there is attraction when shooting porn. He could either be lying about the straight scene so he doesn’t get more backlash or he’s implying that gay4pay pornstars aren’t really straight. With everything we know about viagra, trimix, fluffing etc I think he’s lying to save his ass.

An that is bad, because R502? There is such a thing as freedom of association and the members of a community tend to regard each other as equals because they share certain common traits that are extremely important to the consolidation of the group's identity. These traits also make establishing rapport and setting common goals easy.

When that disappears, people are likely to feel betrayed because they've been dealing with someone they didn't truly know; consequently, they are also likely to want to distance themselves from individuals they might view as duplicitous, hypocritical and dishonest. People who don't share the same goals, experiences and interests anymore. It's human nature and anyone would do it.

Is it sad and unfair that this happens? Maybe, but many things in life are sadder and more terrible and people go on living. Also, the members of a particular community don't owe anything to a specific individual, and if that individual doesn't meet the group's requirements anymore, there's a wide world out there for them to explore.

I would see this as offering that person an opportunity to find their own place, rather than the horrible act of cruelty that you're pretending to describe.

Arad is not gay; he's bisexual then. Why does he insists on using gay when he isn't?

And how come he had girlfriends if in Iran men cannot have girlfriends?

R488, nope, your claim that some random bi scene among 3 paid prostitutes (in the sleazy porn industry) is “homophobia”, as you call it, sounds like you’re turning it into some ‘civil rights' issue. Sorry, but you’re investing too much into this.

As for your concerns about homophobia, I’d be more concerned about all those many prostitutes in porn who are insisting they’re completely “straight” in real life. That’s more of a face-slap to viewers because it implies that gay sexual acts are only for raking in cash from silly online viewers, and that straighthood is somehow better or preferrable in real life.

Many gay porn bosses don’t care about your feelings or my feelings. They only care about themselves and their cash. If they lose you or me as a customer – they don’t give a heck as long as they get other people’s cash instead.

And, nope, you must have not seen recent papers. More and more Gen Y and Gen Z are identifying as bi and fluid / experimental and all that crap – they’re the new growing market, whether we like it or not. Plus those guys who are married to females but are becoming more bold about wanting to fuck men on the side and being more open about it in the new current climate (where being pansexual or trans or non-binary or whatever unicorn is now being promoted as ‘cool’ and ‘edgy’).

And bi porn doesn’t need to generate “anywhere as much interest as straight/gay” porn – it’s additional revenue, not a replacement. The porn bosses likely place their bets that, while some gay-content-only paying members might leave, many will stick around and other big viewing groups (bi, bi-curious, etc) will join as paying members on top of that. It’s a numbers game, but the error is to assume it’s about superficial ‘likes’ and how anyone ‘feels’. Nope, many porn execs are sleazy types and don’t give a flying fuck about anyone’s feelings. It’s all about how many new pockets and bank accounts the porn bosses can get their hands into, to expand their porn empire and make themselves more rich.

Amateur porn is on the rise and you can also find muscle men in it. At least in amateur porn you know the guys are gay.

How do you know? Real world amateur guys are often bi and fluid too

Not that fluid bullshit again, please.

Go away bi/fluid troll.

The bi/fluid troll is now promoting FTM trannies on DL. Sad!

What do y'all mean "go away"? I only just came out!

Btw, anyone know of a good place to buy cruelty-free avocado ice cream?

He’s eccentric

The conception is that sexual orientation is determiend in the womb as hormones modell your brain structure so I don't think your brain is plastic enough to go back and forth through homosexuality and heterosexuality to be constantly changing as the so-called fluid idea suggests.

I think many people who advocate the fluid thing have a cognitive problem in understanding that if previously they fell in love with a woman but later they fell in love with a man their attraction to women is not turned off; it's just that there is no woman making you feel attracted to her at the moment, but the attraction to females is still there.

Veteran Straight Porn Star Sean Michaels announced today that he has done his first full on Bi scene. Not too surprising since he has been doing cuckold stuff in recent years. Plus he posted a pic of his asshole on twitter not too long ago.

It'll be interesting to see how much criticism he gets for this.

Awesome! Bi porn lures more masculine hot guys to male porn.

R504 He is lying to save his ass. Leaving aside the whole question of pleasure in porn (not likely), if you can fuck a woman and enjoy it, you can fuck a woman and enjoy it. That's all there is to it.

R505 And if I was talking about a straight man who decided he was gay and was immediately shunned by the straight society, would you have said the same?

R507 Yep. I don't think you are right about men wanting to fuck men on the side, cheating is still looked down at despite the fuckedup theories from some couple therapists but the younger people are very often some kind of -curious. They are scared away by strict labels like lesbian and gay, but they are seduced by things promising fluidity and freedom of choice.

R515 Sometimes fluid is more like bisexual but not 50/50. People don't deny being attracted to both but they feel like the levels of attraction change. My own opinion is that bisexual has a lot of cultural baggage so people come up with new terms. Most people calling themselves queer, pan, multi, etc,etc, are technically bisexual.

Arad is lying because I'm pretty sure sex with women in Iran before marriage is not permitted, so why would he girlfriends? Unless he had girlfriends in the US and why would he do that if he is gay and doesn't need to hide his sexuality? I think the guy is obviously bisexual.

R22 They have sex before marriage like everywhere else.

I have chatted with Middle Eastern men before and they're desperte for sex because they can't have due to Islam. Men and women are segregated so they literally have no chance to meet up with women either publicly or privately. Everybody keeps an eye on the other.

[quote][R505] And if I was talking about a straight man who decided he was gay and was immediately shunned by the straight society, would you have said the same?

r519, why do you think it's the responsibility of gay people to act as the support system for bisexual people? Wouldn't the obvious answer be that this is role in which the bisexual community should take the lead?

R524 How naive. Unmarried couples do have sex in Iran. Just cant talk about it. Also, Iran isnt Saudi Arabia ffs, while it has an authoritarian regime, many Iranians are a lot more 'cosmopolitan' than you would think.

Some of you queens are hysterical. Its business, the fact you are getting your panties in a knot (I agree to an extent the way bi/fluid is pushed onto gay people is tiresome) is what they want; you are talking about it. Also, are you all goldstar gays? I mean Im not, I have had sex with women and yes, didnt hate it. It is possible for a gay man to functionally have sex with women and still be gay and not bisexual you know. And thats not taking into account things on a porn set like fluffing, viagra, watching gay porn etc. I buy Arad as being gay and this is just a job, but I do agree its the underlining issue of how men who have sex with women are placed on this sexual pedestal even in the gay community. Its sad.

It's just a job my ass.

Bottoming is a job too. Too faggy for Ms. Winwin?

Also I've never encountered someone as dull as Ms. Winwin. The guy literally has no discernible personality

nope, not my thing

No, in Middle Eastern countries having sex with the opposite sex while being unmarried is literally impossible because men and women must remain separate. Both family and society are always keeping an eye on you. Some men do really think that Allah is watching over them and have this battle between powerful need for sex and abstinence. Same-sex sex is happens. Sometimes families arranges things so their boys can have sex privately. It is an acnient practice in most ME countries although not talked about but accpeted anyway.

I know some bodybuilders from Egypt and Dubai. Some of them have told me they have had sex with western women, but still they have to be careful.

R527 I agree with that point. Why doesnt he bottom if its all about showing 'sexuality'? Dont get me wrong, most of us have preferences, but to act like its not a big deal to fuck women, while making a big deal about bottoming.........

R530 Believe me, some coupes get around it.

She's afraid her little penis will be threatened, probably

All this "fluidity" and "nom binary" stuff.

It's the 70's all over again. Except in the 70's, everyone who tried to convince me to "swing" (as we used to call it) had jobs, didn't live at home when they were 30. As a whole, we didn't harbor illusions we were doing anything more than using a convenient warm body. The current generation hasn't invented anything new about sexuality, with the exception of being tedious.

Claiming some pop psychology label though. That's kind of awesome - especially coupled with the condescending comments about straight/gay. That's pretty much like the swingers in the 70's who hated hard on monogamous couples.

Binary? Decimal? Hexidecimal? I think the term is "narcissist". Every thread involving sexuality gets hijacked by the new free love kiddies. I'm not knocking you. I went through it in my teens as well. Perhaps we were raised to be more careful and respectful of others. That's no small irony considering what a sh*%show my generation has been.

If the intent of the non binary/fluid community was to increase their marginalization, mission accomplished.

Dude, you sound so old and out of touch brining the 70s into today’s cultural and social reality. No one cares about what people did and thought way back then. It’s irrelevant to now.

R534 Im 25 I agree with the basic principle of what R533 is saying. Its not just a generational thing, I think most of todays 'queer' identity movement is horseshit but whatever.

Although this thread has nothing to do with nonbinary stuff.

R525 That wasn't my question.

R531 Well bottoming is a pretty specific preference. Most people I know who aren't into it, they are really not into it, so to speak.

R539 well openly gay men tend to have a "preference" for not sleeping with women, and yet here we are.....so If he can go outside of his sexual preference for that, why not bottom?

R539 I can't speak for openly gay men since I'm bisexual but still, having penetrative vaginal sex with a female is much easier on one's body than bottoming. No potential pain or discomfort, no special conditions regarding food or bathing habits. Maybe he just prefers the easy job since neither really rocks his boat. It doesn't have to be a political statement.

easier to fuck not aroused with your partner? rather than laying there doing nothing at all?

R540 "It doesn't have to be a political statement." Piss off bitroll.

There does seem to be a genuine new peer pressure for gay men to have sex with women coming from "the left" . Sad Arad (if he really is a gay man) bowed to that homophobic peer pressure. If his fans were genuine fans surely they'd accept and respect his homosexuality and not demand he have sex with a women to please them.

GOOD for Arad. It helps cement his image as an iconic total forever Alpha Top.

R541 There are ways to keep yourself aroused, especially in porn.

He probably took either Viagra, Cialis or Caverject. These are commonly used in porn.

He is most likely bisexual with stronger attraction to men. Homosexuality does not include women in any way.

R526 And how can a man be aroused to have sex with a women if he's completely gay?

r546 Well the guy with no discernible personality(Arad) seems to enjoy it though. If I didn't know whatever, I would've assumed the other guy with no discernible personality(Daxx) is the gay one, given the uninterested look on his face the entire scene.

And honestly, it was satisfying to see the smug smile off of Arad's face when his scene failed. He thought he was all masculine and then acted like a trigerred bitch after the epic failure of the scene.

Can you contextualise? R550

R548 Fantasizing about other men, for example. Throughout history married men came out as gay. Are you saying they were all really bisexual? Or had no sex in their marriage?

I've thought about this a bit, and I think we should give him the benefit of the doubt. He insists he's gay, even though calling himself bisexual or straight would not harm his career. Also, there are drugs porno actors can be given to give them erections.

R552 oh okay makes sense. I'm sure some were bisexual and i heard from gay men who always found a way to get out of sex with their wives but the marriages were usually short term. What were the other ways?

People were saying he was bisexual long before the video, unless he was paid extra money for doing a bi scene (which I doubt) there is no reason for him to do it other than he is bisexual.

R554 I imagine one could fluff it up in the bathroom manually before sex and then quickly get down to business. Some women aren't really into sex so it wouldn't have to happen often. I think no truly gay man would be able to stay married to a really hot-tempered, sensual woman for any considerable time, because how do you have sex every day with someone you don't even find arousing?

[quote] Except in the 70's, everyone who tried to convince me to "swing" (as we used to call it) had jobs, didn't live at home when they were 30.

R533, you’re really bringing the housing & employment market into this? Seriously? Well, where did your swingers work? At retailers, factories? Oops, many entry-level retail and manufacturing jobs went out the window due to Amazon’s hegemony and outsourcing to China. Where did they rent accommodation? In big cities? Oops, can’t afford a 1-bed there anymore because foreign investors pushed up the prices.

It’s not the 70s anymore, the economic landscape has changed.

[quote][R548] Fantasizing about other men, for example. Throughout history married men came out as gay. Are you saying they were all really bisexual? Or had no sex in their marriage?

r552, some poster on Queerty often says that 50% of men who identify as gay are actually bisexual. I have no idea where he gets that figure from. Honestly, I had no idea that bisexuals misidentifying as gay was even a thing but even on DL you will see quite a number of guys talking about being sexually attracted to women but then insisting on identifying as gay.

R558 Quite a number of bisexuals who prefer men either identify as gay or allow people to call them gay without correcting them. Especially if they have a long term monogamous relationship. Same goes for bi women and lez community. There was a woman who told me she allowed people to call her lesbian during her 10 year long marriage to another woman. She knew she wasn't but it was easier to just go with the flow since she had no intention to cheat or break up.

Gay as an identity means a lot to people, and if they had to fight for it when they were younger, sometimes they have a hard time letting go or changing. The very idea of nonbinary sexuality is uncomfortable for some. A large amount of straight-identifying people are bisexual to some degree but aren't really aware or ready to admit it, but some gay-identifying people are the same way.

[quote][R558] Quite a number of bisexuals who prefer men either identify as gay or allow people to call them gay without correcting them. Especially if they have a long term monogamous relationship. Same goes for bi women and lez community. There was a woman who told me she allowed people to call her lesbian during her 10 year long marriage to another woman. She knew she wasn't but it was easier to just go with the flow since she had no intention to cheat or break up.

r559, but how do bisexuals expect the whole bierasure thing to change if they don't start owning it? Also, don't they realise the harm this can cause to actual homosexuals? How do they explain it when/if they start dating members of the opposite sex after saying they were gay? This is why the idea that homosexuality can change still persists.

R560 I think a lot of them don't do it on purpose. Not the ones hiding, of course, but a lot of people simply believe their own convictions. Like another poster said, here on DL you can meet men who call themselves gay but admit to having a physical attraction to some women or sexual fantasies involving women. They say things like, "those are remnants of my past" or "this is because there is so much heteronormativity around, it sticks to you", but what about other gay men who actually tried to be attracted to women and yet couldn't? Some bisexual women identify as lesbian because they are disappointed in men, it's a social reason not a sexual one. It's complicated.

People can't be expected to know everything about their sexuality right away. Some people think they are straight, then they realize they aren't, it's not because their sexuality changed but because they haven't truly understood themselves. You can date a member of your own sex after calling yourself straight and explain it like, "I didn't realize it until I met this person and fell for them", same goes for the other way around.

And bi erasure complicates it even more. For example, you have doubts about your bisexuality and then you are told that it's just a phase, an illusion, it doesn't exist, you are really gay anyway, and you think: maybe they are right? Maybe I'm just confused so I shouldn't make any statements? The society can't have it both ways. You can't apply pressure and then get angry when people fold under it.

Yeah the ones who do it intentionally need to stop because they're using gay as a catch all term and contributing to homophobia and bi erasure. They need to realize that if your in any way attracted to both men and women you are bisexual. If you don't want to identify as bi then fine but don't identify as gay either.

R560 exactly they're also the ones who want to identify as gay but also try to pudh fluidity on gay people

R562 Yes bi erasure is harming homosexuality too. Bisexuals get lumped in together with homosexuals and then people are like, hey gay men can be aroused by women.

R563 Because of biphobia. There is quite a lot of baggage attached to the term bisexuality. Some of it we saw right in this thread. Accusations, stereotypes, stigma, a whole lot of unpleasantness. There was a study about how bisexual people (i.e. people who are technically qualified as bisexual) often prefer other labels like queer or sexually fluid or refuse to label themselves.

Omfg can this thread just die and the rabid bisexual find another site to talk crap? Sick of seeing it pop up. Thanks.

R565

NO.

Somebody needs to make a part two because this thread has opened a lot of discussions that I honesty find interesting and would love to continue to talk about

True

[quote][R560] exactly they're also the ones who want to identify as gay but also try to pudh fluidity on gay people

r563, I find that so weird. There are these guys who will get angry if you point out that they are obviously not gay but at the same time they will insist on pushing the idea that gay men are sexually attracted to women.

R569 Yeah it's not only homophobic but biphobic

Gay porn is a disappointment.

Cliff jensen is gross.

So he's shitty at fucking both genders? Well, at least he's consistent.

If he can fuck with women then he isn't gay. He probably identifies as gay because he is predominantly attracted to men coupled with the fact that in Iran he was most likely deprived of homosexual sex. He probably sees himself with a man in life, but again, being able to be aroused and have sex with women is not homosexuality but bisexuality.

Homoexulity; romantic and sexual attraction to the same sex.

Who cares? You’re analyzing a porn star’s sexuality? Smh 🤦‍♂️

Just watched the video and I'm convinced Arad Winwin is not homosexual but bisexual. His attraction my be dominant in him but till there is some little room for women so that make him not homosexual.

I am homosexual, I'm not turned on by women and I don't desire to have sex with one. When I'm sexually aroused I need men; not women and no women can compensate in any way for my sexual needs. If women can compensate and you can perform with them then you're not homosexual; you're bisexual.

Proudly homosexual here.

Why are you so appalled at a person being bisexual vs. gay?

Exactly. This is a bizarre place

More!

[r 574] sorry, that’s just dead wrong. What happens between your legs doesn’t always reflect what’s happening between your ears. I’m a very gay man. Not like nancing down the street in a Dorothy Gale of Kansas pinafore, but pretty masculine without spending hours in front of the mirror making sure everyone says “oooh butch”.

Many years ago when I was in the military, I was friendly with women. We’d go drinking and they’d crash at my place. More than once, in the middle of the night, I’d awake to find vagina riding my cock. I know I didn’t initiate because I was still in my bed, and they had managed to crawl into my bed. Once I was awake, well - that action ended. But a couple of times, it was a dream where I was banging out a guy so waking up to realize it was a girl was not a good experience.

Yep, hard. Fucking a girl. Still gay. Not bisexual. Not happy about it and seriously betrayed. So don’t assume that because a guy gets hard he’s a willing participant.

r580 but did you report her for rape? Or are girls the only ones who are eligible file a case for rape nowadays? Hmmm....

no thank you

Has Arad done any scenes since this one?

[ r 581] wasn’t the point, now was it?

R580. If you are telling the truth that was sexual assault and the girl should have been reported. I guess any police would laugh at that and say you were lucky though. But imagine if a guy crept into a woman's bed and started fucking her in her sleep? They would be calling for his head on a platter. Also are you stunningly attractive? You seem to have stirred such uncontrollable passion in your female friends

I saw the bisexual scene with Arad. He seemed much more enthusiastic while inside the woman than when fucking the guy. Did anyone else notice this? Much heavier pounding. But the woman was hideous really scrawny with misshapen boobs. I would have needed tons of viagra to have gone anywhere near .

Fascinating

R580 first I want to say Im sorry that happened to you, those women should have never done that to you and I hope your doing okay. the thing is your were aroused because you were dreaming about men and when you woke up you were turned off. I mean you were getting raped though. Arad on tge other hand is genuinely attracted to women. It makes sense for you to still be gay while the same can't be said for him.

As a homosexual guy I don't like to be groped by women and I don't like it when they make sexual advances on me. I have girl friends and I have nothing against women, I just don't desire any form of sexual interaction with them. It feels uncomfortable.

R589 Does it feel different if a guy does it (assuming he is sexually unattractive to you, of course, so you also don't desire any sexual interaction)?

I'm asking out of pure curiosity. I'm bi, so to me people are only divided by their sexual attractiveness.

[r 585] beer makes me more attractive dumbass. and, since we were all in the military - had I reported them, they would have been put in prison. nice, right? now flip the script since this was the early 1980s. The way military law worked did not recogngize assault by a woman on a man, so I would have been charged with sexual assault on them.

that’s why I never reported it.

Arad is so hot

It looks like this vide hasn't really helped him much.

If you are interested in seeing 's early character, the Biracial Bisexual Superiority Troll, he's at R56 here and dozens of other hateful, homophobic posts.

Bisexual men have been identifying as gay since at least the 90s, in my experience. Or, they’ve just not said anything at all. To those who talk about porn performers, “just doing their job’” and maintaining an erection for the sex they’re not oriented towards. That’s a biological reaction. This is science. You won’t maintain an erection when you’re not oriented toward a particular. No, ED drugs won’t artificially create a hard on either. They don’t work that way. Individuals do identify as gay when they’re actually bi. Don’t let the anti-science “fluidity” trolls tell you otherwise.

Also, once something like this happens, a site starts pushing bisexuality on its members, vote with your pocketbook. Leave. Stop following performers who engage in gaslighting you. Break them. It’s not ok.