Shelley Winters on Marilyn Monroe

Marilyn didn't have any Oscars.

Marilyn and Shelley lived together at 8573 Holloway Drive in West Hollywood. The same apartment building where Sal Mineo was murdered.

Shelley won Oscars for The Diary of Anne Frank and A Patch of Blue, and was nominated for A Place in the Sun and the Poseidon Adventure.

And she's milked her brief association with Monroe for decades!

They roomates for what, a couple of months?

One of the first rules you learn in Hollywood is that you do not disrespect Shelley motherfucking Winters.

Jane fucking lying freak face Fonda has taken to trotting out some Marilyn stories too. At least Shelley knew Marilyn, probably quite well for a short period of time. It's sort of like everyone wanted to claim to have had an affair with Elvis for a while. Ann-Margret, the only who did, wouldn't even tell. Yeah and Robert Wagner was fucking Barbara Stanwyck. That's my favorite. Shelley Winters was certifiably nuts and quite the story teller. But she did seem to know quite a bit about Brando and Monroe. And Liz and Monty. Shelley Winters is a peculiar actress. She had a great resume, starred opposite just about everyone and won more than a few awards. She was very progressive and bohemian, and truly crazy the way the farthest out method actors sometimes were. Yet she is remembered as a pig face fat frau always talking about her diet and famous lovers on Merv.

[quote]Jane fucking lying freak face Fonda has taken to trotting out some Marilyn stories too.

They knew each other through Lee Strasberg and the Actors Studio.

Those are quotes from Shelley's second autobiography which she wrote about 30 years ago. She referenced Marilyn in the first book, Shelley, aka Shirley, people wantedmore and so she included additional stories in Shelley II.

Her two books are among the best celebrity autobiographies ever. She was very smart, very funny and led an amazingly interesting life.

[quote]"If she was dumber, she would have been happier."

Very poignant. It had to be frustrating to be a woman and smarter than the parts you were being offered or the people that were offering them.

R6 is a troll- great quotes. Shelley was not a name dropper. She was more of a touch stone. The buck stopped with her.

(And Jane Fonda dropping names is kind of like Obama being a star fucker- and if you don’t understand, never mind.)

Shelley didn't just know Marilyn for a brief time. They were actually good friends.

Those quotes are from linked interviews in the original post.

Shelley became friends with a delivery guy from Jerry's Deli in his twenties in the early 2000s. They actually became good friends. He's now a vlogger on YouTube, and has posted a lot of videos about her under Daze with Jordan the lion.

Shelley and Marilyn were roommates as they were just starting out.

Shelley tells a funny story about when she was in Italy filming a movie, and a friend of hers house-staying in her house had Richard Nixon over. Shelley didn't know it was him when she called, and had him hose down the driveway, and do different various household chores for her.

She was funny on Roseanne.

Shelley was perceptive and a good writer. She got typecast in bulldozer roles, but had a wider range than was indicated by her most famous roles. I saw a made-for-TV movie in which she played a bewildered housewife from Idaho whose daughter is accused of murder in New York: it's called "A Death of Innocence" and Shelley's performance is subtle and understated.

Shelley under water, before Poseidon.

Shelley under water, after Poseidon.

Tentacles (1977)

^ "TESTICLES!!!"

I read one of her autobiographies years ago and really liked it.

She was a very good and versatile character actress when she got older, does anyone else remember her Dotty grandma character on "Roseanna"?

But I never understood why she had a career as a starlet, she wasn't very pretty or appealing when she was young. Although she never let that stop her from getting laid in real life, and good on her for that!

She must have been sexy and flirty in real life because the list of guys she dated is amazing. Plus, she was smart and funny which came across clearly in all her TV interviews. Her autobiographies (which only run up until the early 60's) are among the best ever written by a Hollywood celeb.

I agree about her autobiographies, they were full of great details, she fucked so many interesting people and was friends with everyone of her time as they came up together in theater and movies. One of my favorite stories was when her Italian husband was talking shit about her cooking to their dinner party guests and Shelley dumped the whole platter of pasta all over his head. I would have loved to hang out with her.

She played the murdered, killed, accidental death dupe in so many movies. She is the reason "Lolita" is ranked in my top 10 movies. "Hummmm, I'm lonely!"

She really wasn't... photogenic as a young woman, was she.

Still, in real life her open, funny, fun-loving, dick-loving personality must have been a hit with the guys. In an era when the average young woman tried their best to be a dull "good girl" hausfrau in training, she must have seemed like a straight man's dream come true! It really is a pity that that side of her personality didn't really come out on film.

R25, no she wasn't. You could dress her up in Hollywood glamour and make believe she was a ravishing sexpot, but her face was unexceptional.

You really get to know someone when you live together , so she would have had stories and a perspective on Marilyn that few others did.

She seems like she would stand up to aggressive men.

I remember Johnny Carson and others would make jokes that Shelley could tell what hotel she was at just by comparing photos of their ceilings.

R26, no great beauty, I bet most straight guys would be happy to spend an evening with the woman in that photo. It's not like she was hideous, just not a great cinema beauty.

She always had a bawdy, good time girl look.

She was a Connie Ford type.

men seem to be attracted to women that are funny

Agreed, R24. Shelley Winters was terrific in “Lolita”, my favorite performance of hers.

If Marilyn had not killed herself, she would have ended up being nuttier than Brigitte Bardot is now.

Shelly was just a fabulous person- witty, bawdy and a fag hag in her old age. I used to talk to her at Silver Spoon, a coffee shop in WeHo and she was so gracious.

I'm sure she woukd have something to say about Roseanne if she were still around and part of the reboot.

That's the crazy thing about crazy Roseanne. She got the best people to work with her. There must be some good in that brain someplace.

R33 since when? I’ve never heard a straight man mention a woman’s sense of humor. Ever.

r39 you're right, they never do but I find that funny women attract men.

Straight men prefer a woman who laughs at their jokes to a woman who makes jokes, but Shelley probably did both.

Shelley was a ho. Mostly with married men. That's what they liked about her. Hos give head and take it up the ass.

Speaking of Roseanne, she’ll be back on TV soon enough.

Hey, R34 Solidarity! Everyone else wondering how she done it: Shelley was a fucking good time gal. Women do not have to be beautiful to gloriously fuck all kinds of men if they are: talented, fun, funny, up for adventure, and like to dance, drink, smoke, eat, cuss and have sex without being a clingy drag about it. Shelley also wrote in her books about how the studio tried to give her a bombshell image but she was always a character actress in her own estimation.

Me too R36. When Gloria introduced me to her, I was shaking which Winters noticed. She asked me why and I said "because you are a two time Academy Award winner" and she poked me with her elbow and said "Nah, I'm just Shelley."

That day was the first of many conversations with her and her table of colorful friends on the Spoon's patio.

Shelley really never had to worry about being glamorous and beautiful because she made her mark early playing put-upon drudges in A Place in the Sun and A Double Life (her first Oscar nomination in 1947).

Was it true that Monroe was abused by studio big wigs?

But Winters kept up the myth that she had been a "bombshell" beauty. She mentioned it all of her neurotic ramblings, aka every time she opened her mouth. She clearly wished she were beautiful. She wasn't even pretty, barely attractive. Must have been some sizzle. She got fucked a lot. She was an interesting broad and a good character actress.

She could suck a golf ball through a garden hose.

I think she was pretty in some of her early publicity photos.

Marilyn was probably a pretty cool roommate.

I think Shelley chilled in the 60s once she realized she was going to have a career as a character actress, not a bombshell. I read a bio of the Australian playwright/novelist Sumner Locke Elliott, who moved to New York after the war and wrote a lot of television scripts in the 50s. One such script was an adaptation of Clare Boothe Luce's play "The Women"; he said Paulette Goddard, Mary Astor, and Nancy Olson were all hard-working and great to work with, but when Shelly arrived she immediately played the diva and the atmosphere on the set soured and never recovered. Elliott topped talking to her after a couple of days and never forgave her.

If you've heard all those audio recordings of Marilyn you can hear that she also had a bawdy personality. I'm sure the two of them stayed up all night a lot and did all kinds of crazy shit.

Shelley's first nomination was for A Place in the Sun. She wasn't nominated for A Double Life.

Her autobiography is very funny when she describes her first Oscars as a nominee. She was sure she heard herself announced as the Best Actress winner and was halfway to the stage before someone grabbed her. She lost to Vivien Leigh in Streecar and I'm honestly not sure how Shelley thought she had a chance.

Her autobiographies are just great.

She and Marilyn "cooked dinner" for Dylan Thomas? Now THAT sounds like a pile of utter bullshit.

[quote]he said Paulette Goddard, Mary Astor, and Nancy Olson were all hard-working and great to work with, but when Shelly arrived she immediately played the diva and the atmosphere on the set soured and never recovered.

But you can see it in her books. Shelley was an acting bully. She was so in love with The Method that she couldn't stand any other type of acting and she would bully others who didn't go along with her Method.

This has to be mentioned. Go to the 9:12 mark.

They made spaghetti.

This is from my favorite documentary about Marilyn called "Marilyn Monroe: Beyond the Legend" it was made in the 80s and everyone interviewed knew Marilyn personally. It's on youtube.

Shelley wasn't the only one on Marilyn Monroe.

When your roommate is Marilyn Monroe, it's not necessary to make up any names to drop.

I remember her telling a story about Marilyn and a turkey that had not been plucked - and Marilyn was trying to get it ready for Thanksgiving?

Marilyn Monroe was no cook. It's hard to imagine her cooking dinner for anybody, much less Dylan Thomas.

Shelley claims that it was her that taught Marilyn Monroe the open, luring smile that became one of Marilyn's trademarks.

Also, I never thought Shelley was such a great actress. She's absolutely horrible as Natalia in "I Am A Camera." And she herself says, she was too shy to do any nudity in "Lolita" and that's why in her sex scene she's dressed like she's going on a trip to Alasaka.

Does anyone know if Scotty Bowers mentions Shelley in his book?

"Does anyone know if Scotty Bowers mentions Shelley in his book?"

He probably claimed that he fucked her. And Marilyn, too. Probably both at the same time.

[quote] He probably claimed that he fucked her. And Marilyn, too. Probably both at the same time.

I thought he would arrange "dates" for her. But maybe she didn't need help on that front because she claims to have fucked every man in Hollywood. Brando I can understand because he fucked everybody, expect Elaine Stritch. But why would Burt Lancaster want to have an affair with her? He could get tighter snatch than pass around Shelley.

Does anyone remember Madonna in the late 1980s offered Shelley a wheelbarrow brimming with cash in return for some acting lessons, when she was desperate to resume her acting career. Shelley declined (she found Madonna phoney-baloney) and later said "that Madonna may think she is the reincarnation of Monroe, but there is just no way to duplicate Marilyn's intelligence, and vulnerability.." I think she recommenced that Madonna take some singing lessons instead .

"I thought he would arrange "dates" for her."

Shelley Winters didn't need any help getting "dates." Neither did anybody else Bowers claimed to procure for. They didn't need the help of a fucking gas station attention, for fuck's sake.

R63 how would you know?

Can she not?

Shelley fucked Marlon Brando, and Marilyn married writer Arthur Miller and Joe DiMaggio. It's not hard to believe they would hang out with Dylan Thomas.

Tribute: Marilyn Monroe, written by Dina Gachman:

"It’s a sensitive, celebratory ode to Monroe, with some charming, unexpected details that prove Gachman did her homework. For instance, the fact that teen Norma Jean cooked peas and carrots because she liked the colors (something ex-husband Dougherty relayed in an interview), and the story of how Marilyn and her early roommate, Shelley Winters, got drunk with Dylan Thomas, who then crashed into Charlie Chaplin’s tennis court."

R71, isn't it more a question of whether Dylan Thomas would hang out with them? After all, as Shelley points out (in case we didn't know), he was "a famous poet" -- but they were just a couple of blonde bimbo starlets.

If Dylan Thomas was a straight man, and I have no idea if he was, he'd probably be happy to hang out with a couple of young American girls who thought he was a big deal.

Or who had booze he could drink.

Most gay men and straight men would love to get drunk with Marilyn Monroe and Shelley Winters.

I have never read in any biography of Marilyn Monroe (and I've read quite a few) that she ever me Dylan Thomas. She did meet Carl Sandburg, though. There are pictures of together; Marilyn is drinking champagne and dancing with him. She also knew Truman Capote. And she and Arthur Miller attended a luncheon given by Carson McCullers than included Isak Dinesen. I've also read biographies of Dylan Thomas and nowhere did they say Marilyn Monroe and Shelley Winters ever cooked dinner for him and you can bet if THAT happened it would be written about. I think that story is bullshit.

I haven't watched Phone Call From a Stranger in a very long time.

R76. Obviously missed the biography quoted at R72

The biopraphy quoted at R72 doesn't sound particularly credible. That quote just sounds like unfounded gossip.

Marilyn fucked JFK while he was married and President of rhe United States, but you can't possibly fathom her knowing someone relatively obscure as Dylan Thomas?

Dhelley and Marilyn had sex with men and women who have never been mentioned in biographies written by strangers

If you do some research, the Dylan Thomas anecdote is found in several articles since Shelley actually said it

Marilyn had the power to get Ella Fitzgerald to sing at nightclubs that didn't book black people.

Well she did hook Tony Franciosa.

And Vittorio Gassman.

There are a lot of biographies about Marilyn Monroe that are full of bullshit. Her and Shelley Winters cooking dinner for Dylan Thomas sounds more bullshit.

Shelley Winters was on a talk show insinuating that Marilyn Monroe and Albert Einstein were lovers. She said they made a list of men they wanted to fuck and Marilyn had Einstein on her list (she much preferred older men). Winters said that after her death in Marilyn's effects was found a photo of Einstein inscribed something like "To Marilyn with many thanks." The audience of course guffawed knowingly. Actually the picture was a gag. One of her friends, knowing she had a crush on Einstein, had the picture made up for her and gave it to her as a joke. Obviously Winters liked to pull people's legs.

If it was just Winters, Thomas and Monroe R76 with Thomas dying within two years, Monroe in eleven, leaving only Winter's book, then it could've happened and no one knew about it. Just because there isn't a photo doesn't make it untrue.

Why of all people would Shelley pull Dylan's name of all people to have over for dinner?

"Two incidents during one week in California further demonstrate Dylan's sometimes complete lack of tact or social grace. The first took place at a dinner where Thomas was introduced to the actress Shelley Winters. When she asked him why he had come to Hollywood, his reply was "To touch the titties of a beautiful blonde starlet and to meet Charlie Chaplin." Later that evening when Winters granted his first wish, he proclaimed "I do not believe it's necessary for me to meet Charlie Chaplin now". Yet he did meet Chaplin soon after, arriving quite drunk at the residence after a meal enjoyed with Winters, Marilyn Monroe and several martinis and bottles of beer and wine. Upon arrival, Thomas crashed the car they were in into the net of Chaplin's tennis court. Inside, though there were several notable Hollywood figures there that night, Thomas insisted he was only interested in meeting Chaplin. After later being rebuked for "rude, drunken behavior" by Chaplin himself, Dylan promptly walked out into the solarium and relieved himself on a large plant."

They must have had a lot of drunken nights in West Hollywood and stumbled home to their Holloway apartment.

"Why of all people would Shelley pull Dylan's name of all people to have over for dinner?"

Maybe because it made a good story? He was quite a personality; maybe she thought it would be really juicy to link herself and Marilyn to him.

Wow, and to think Farrah shitting on someone's lawn was anything.

Marilyn Monroe gets top billing in every situation. You don't need to make anything up about her for a juicy story.

They must have gone to Barney's Beanery a lot since they lived one block from there.

read between the lines.

these two women were told to entertain the man for an evening.

what was Hollywood at that time(and perhaps now) but a giant bordello with an unusual advertising scheme?

Shelley was pretty sharp and funny up until her last year.

She was actually in an assisted living for a while, but chose to move back into her her house and live on her own.

"Marilyn Monroe gets top billing in every situation. You don't need to make anything up about her for a juicy story."

A lot of people have. There have been books written by guys who claimed to be her lover that have no substance in fact. I think was one of them was by David Conover. He was the first photographer to notice her attributes and took the pictures of her that gave her her start. He claims they had a hot affair and stayed friends but there's no real evidence to back up his claims. He said that Marilyn initiated the sex, telling him "let's do what comes naturally." Now does anybody believe THAT? Conover just wanted himself to seem a lot more involved with Marilyn than he really was.

r95, you obviously have not heard much about Monroe. she would jump in the sack with anyone. a friend of her's described it thus: "that's just how she shakes hands".

a female friend, no less.

the photographer who took the very last nude photoshoot with her (famous one of her in white sheets) said she told him to come down and hop in the sack with her. he refused, as he said he wanted the pictures more than the lay.

that's just how she was.

"the photographer who took the very last nude photoshoot with her (famous one of her in white sheets) said she told him to come down and hop in the sack with her. he refused, as he said he wanted the pictures more than the lay."

She was drunk on champagne at the time. Anyway, Monroe didn't sleep with "everyone." If she'd slept with everyone she was rumored to have slept with she wouldn't have had time to make movies.

I remember reading an interview with Shelley Winters and she talked about Marilyn Monroe. I guess if Winters went into another room Monroe was always peaking in at her. Once, even in the bathroom. Winters finally asked Monroe what she was doing and why she always looking in on her and Monroe replied, "I just wanted to make sure you hadn't left," or "I wanted to make sure you were still here," something along those lines.

Does anyone know if winters did Sinatra, or if Marilyn did for that matter? He doesn't have the rep of treating women nicely.

Sinatra and Marilyn were an item in the early '60s, and he even considered marrying her to protect her from herself.

Sinatra and Shelley probably screwed around. That woman fucked every man in Hollywood.

R96, you are referring to the Douglas Kirkland shoot where she's wrapped in a sheet. Those were shot late 1961. Her last nude shots were with Bert Stern in June of 1962. Monroe didn't invite the young man into her bed, he said he felt as if she was. Stern tried to kiss her when she was sleeping and would've probably molested her, had he not had an assistant there.

point stands--she would sleep with anyone.

no shame, unless she lied about fidelity to someone.

Marilyn Monroe never slept with me!

Marilyn Monroe didn't sleep with Jack Lemmon. He didn't find her sexy; he felt sorry for her. And she didn't sleep with Billy Wilder, either, despite her preference for older men. He also felt sorry for her and his experience working with her on "Some Like It Hot" made him hate her with a passion. Don Murray was not one of her lovers. He too disliked her for her unprofessionalism and during the making of "Bus Stop" he fell not for Marilyn but for Hope Lange. So there were SOME men who didn't jump into bed with her, even though she was easy to get into bed.

Shelley Winters and Sinatra do an amusing musical duet.

Their cycles must have been synced.

Shelley never fucked Frank. They had an antagonistic relationship.

Also, he wasn’t hot enough for her. Look at all the other Italian men she was fucking in comparison.

After reading this thread, it sounds as though Shelley was playing herself in elder form on the Barr sitcom

Nana Mary was always talking about bangin’ Picasso and being a brassy broad vagabond

I gotta say, why I love DL. Shelley sounds like a smart cookie. Marilyn was ... well, we all know.

[quote] she didn't sleep with Billy Wilder, either

After Some Like It Hot, Billy Wilder's next film was The Apartment. He takes a shot at Marilyn in the film by having one of the office louses pick up a floozie Marilyn look-alike in a bar.

In pre-PC times Shelley would have been referred to as a good broad. Highly complimentary.

yup, r110, that's how I see her, and yeah, it's not an insult. Just somebody who likes sex, likes herself, and actually knows what is going on around her. neither hates men nor thinks they are particularly awesome.

I read years ago a story about Shelley Winters having to meet a producer or director for a film because they wanted her to audition for it. She arrived. Sat opposite the person at a desk. Without saying a word, she reached into a bag and put one Oscar on the desk. Looked at the person and put a second Oscar on the desk. Then, she stated something to the effect of, "Some people think I can act. Do you still want me to audition?" Supposedly she was offered the role. I don't recall what film it was for though. But, the thought of her doing such a righteous burn amused me.

love it, R112, hope it's true. see, a good broad.

r104 - reading comprehension.

it was not "anyone would sleep with Monroe".

it was "Monroe would sleep with anyone".

I spent time at the same orphanage where Marilyn lived, even in the same room.

It makes sense that she sought the security of marriage, and was attracted to and married father figures since being custody of California is desperate and terrifying.

One of Shelley's famous quotes when she was on the Merv Griffin Show 155 times, was, "The further you get from the oceans, the stupider the people are." Which is very astute, until you realize that Shelley was born in the Midwest. I did love her in The Diary of Anne Frank though. Did she get the Oscar for Best Supporting that year ?

People are pretty stupid near the oceans though.

There are always exceptions but being born in the Midwest (and I presume having relatives there) probably formed her astute observation about people being stupider in the so-called heartland (because they have no heads.) I think it's a religious or superstitious, agrarian/peasant mentality. Even Marx said there's no hope for the peasants as they're too dense. You need to work with the proletariat or working class in the cities. Large countries with great swathes of farmland/empty terrain are always like this - we're like Russia or China, in that respect. It's probably hopeless.

Shelley was born in St. Louis but her family moved to Brooklyn when she was 9. She considered herself a New York girl.

[quote]Marilyn Monroe was no cook. It's hard to imagine her cooking dinner for anybody, much less Dylan Thomas.

Her first husband mentioned in several interviews that she was a good enough cook. Later, she learned more from DiMaggio's sister. By the time she married Miller, she was skilled. Some of her belongings that were auctioned in '99 were pots/pans ad cookbooks with her notes on them.

Shelly Winters was a very good story teller and very entertaining. I think she guilds the lilly a little regarding Marilyn as she realizes anything Marilyn is golden. In her early movies I thought she was attractive and I thought she made a fairly good blond bombshell, maybe slightly on the floozy side, but she for sure had a look..........I would think many men would have wanted to hook up with Shelly in her younger years,.......she was a good time girl ,,,,,,,,,,,,,is she miss america beauty grade........no......but there is more to the mating game than that.

Guilds the lily? Oh, dear.

I wonder if they ever got gay together

I don’t have a sense Shelley ever went for anything other than choice dick.

More often than not, Italian.

r122 = silly queen

I give her props for bagging a fox like Vittorio Gassman. He was one of the most beautiful men in films.s

r126 - yeah - I'll bet they really tore the sheets up. They were only married for two years but they had a kid.

Was Shelley the one that could blow you so hard the sheets stuck to your ass?

In Marilyn's afterglow at the Golden Globes

With Marlon Brando