I will die in student loan debt 😕 TERRIFIED

How much do you owe, OP? How old are you?

Could you relocate to an area where you could get a better salary at a jib, using your degree?

So sorry about your health issues, hon. That type of thing is terrifying enough nowadays, just on its own! Hope whatever you suffer from is under control and stays that way.

You Can File Bankruptcy for Student Loans — Here’s How

I owe a little over 100K

I owed a little over $100K and was on a payment plan. And then my loan kept getting sold back and forth and back and forth and every time it did, I got roughly $60K tacked onto my loan as a "collection fee." My loan has now swelled to $450K and I stopped paying because it's just throwing money away. Let them come after me and imprison me. I'll never be able to pay back half a million dollars. I talked to an attorney and he said there was nothing I could do so I might as well stop paying and put the money towards a good attorney for when they finally do get me. Going to grad school was the biggest mistake I have ever made.

OP, I am convinced you can be helped. Tell us more. How old are you? When did you graduate? What do you do for work? Where do you live?

Betsy De Vos will take care of that for you (by allowing unlimited interest rates so you will owe 10 times what you borrowed....'Murica!)

OP, my friend owed over 100k and stopped one class short of a law degree so that his graduation wouldn’t trigger the expectations of starting to pay on the loan. But eventually, he agreed to pay 10% of his income for a decade, after which his loan would be forgiven.

Good luck, peanut!

Meh, who isn't?

R4, not knowing where you live, keep on eye on the lawsuit from California against Student loan company Navient. It will open the floodgates nationally. There may still be hope.

If I were you, I would really get in touch with some advocacy group that works with student loan people who are way underwater with their debt.

R4, the same advice to you, BTW.

You both are not the only ones in this position. Student loan debt in this country is absolutely massive, and everyone knows it's going to explode at some point. (ie Massive defaults, massive numbers of people campaigning for changes to collection fees and interest amounts, etc.)

Here's the thing: you have to get politically involved--even if it's in a small way. No change will happen if people don't demand it.

R1 Thanks folks 😊. I’m not suicidal anything but am tired of feeling trapped and hopeless. It’s very stressful feeling like your in a hole you can never get out of. I am a firm believer in honoring my debts but if boils my blood that I pay more in taxes that billion dollar corporations that in turn pay peanuts in salary and offshore profits to keep from paying their fair share. Yet my loan debt situation is iron clad and unchangable

*you’re

My former boyfriend had a student debt of $20,000, got a good job and was then fired from it. Now he's working at lesser jobs that don't pay much. You're not alone and some people are worse off then you.

What do you do for a living? I know some people who taught English in Saudi Arabia for a few years and made really good money. Their living expenses were covered and they paid no income taxes. They suffered for a couple of years but made enough to get out of debt and moved on with their lives afterward. Just a thought. Good luck.

R10 Thank you are right. I appreciate the moral support too. I admit this is the first time I have talked to anyone about this as I am ashamed of the predicament I am in.

All good advice, everyone. Thanks. If my loans went back down to what they were when I graduated I'd be willing to pay them. I incurred the debt. But I never signed on for them to increase 350% and climbing.

OP if you know french you can fast-tracked to a good job in Canada as we are in desperate need of french teachers

R14 True. I had a female friend who got a good medical job in Arabia that paid very well. Also had a male friend who worked over in Arabia - and the sexual stories he told about Arabic men! They can be very uninhibited.

Can you just move to another state?

R19 At this stage of the game Op wants to move to another planet.

Two words: Sugar daddy.

I've often thought of moving to Ireland to escape my student loan debt, but how would I work unless I married someone.

OP here — Right now I am in the process of selling all but basic belongings and saving as much money as possible. I fear if this Trump situation continues things are going to go very badly and then I will be fucked. I still have some medical bills to pay as well.

I just don’t know how much “smaller” I can make myself financially. I just don’t want to feel like this song anymore 😢

Throw a Hail Mary and get to hustling on West Hollywood OP. There is no honor in drowning in debt. Get your self a sugar daddy that is loaded.

R23 buy a used van and set up shop in the Walmart parking lot. That will cut costs even more

To R15 and R16

Please don't be ashamed of anything. Tacking on an additional debt of 350k to an original 100k--and even charging the amounts that they do--is absolutely the definition of usury, and it is absolutely immoral of the companies that do it and Republicans that legalize it. This was never legal in this country before and is not legal in any other normal country right now because people who aren't blinded by greed understand that taking advantage of students, burdening them with crippling debt, when they are trying to become more valuable to our nation and our economy is pernicious and disgusting.

Frankly, I was a little young and not politically active during the "Occupy Wall Street" movement, but I am surprised that it fizzled out when one of its biggest issues was student loan debt. (Do you remember all those video collages with young students holding up placards that said things like, "I'm 23 and I have 250k in student debt"?) It stunned me, and I expected more people to coalesce around that specific issue. (But, of course, the Republicans sidetracked and diverted into pointing out how dirty some of the protestors were, etc.)

Because of the number of people in your shoes, and the size of the debt, this will be an explosive issue in the coming years--depending on how organized reformers are. That's why I encourage you to get involved with a group that is at least working on it--even if all you can do right now is go on Facebook and join groups where this is a discussion about this. If this is going to reach a tipping point that turns our way, we need a community of people around it.

Also, and this goes without saying, please register to vote and help others to. Please vote in the midterms. Please volunteer with campaigns.

Thank you

It’s impossible to understand why someone would borrow so much money as a student, or how they are even allowed to. If you are a student, this is such a simple decision, to cross off any education option that requires you to borrow so much money. When I was in college, I borrowed less than a third of what my starting salary was after graduation. If I had had to borrow more, I would have gone to a cheaper school. I would have hated that, but I could do simple math and know I had to.

R27 things were so simpler in the 90s

R27, there are no cheaper schools anymore.

I went to school in the late 90s-early00s, and my state school tuition was much less than that of the shitty community college in my neighborhood. They have all jacked up their rates like a cartel because they know the kids have no other choices.

dear god r4, what a nightmare. Is it possible to emigrate to Canada? They have--or used to have--a website that asked basic questions, age, education level, and at the end it determined if you were likely to be approved. Having a job lined up was not a prerequisite. I know they need teachers.

Or teaching English in China/Japan/Korea/UAE etc. have to do a training course but community colleges offer it. There are expat forums that explain it all.

and r22, you can probably work "under the table" at a bar or pub to get you started. It could lead to better jobs.

yeah, all my answers involve moving to another country.

I feel for you OP and I'm sorry you're in the situation you are in--it's bullshit and completely unfair.

It's also indicative of what a two-tier society we've become.

I am part of the Lucky Sperm Club and my parents were fortunately able to pay for my college, so I graduated with no debt. But I do meet so many people my age like OP, who are just drowning in it and it affects every aspect of life from what kind of job you take to your ability to afford to buy a home. It's a huge divide.

(My parents aren't loaded. They have professional jobs and started saving for college early and my grandparents kicked in some too. College now is something like $300K for four years which is just insane.)

[quote] Is it possible to emigrate to Canada?

Yes actually Canada has a fast tracking program to attract highly sought after talent. Again if you know french you can get in like tomorrow, because we desperately need teachers who can speak french

[quote]there are no cheaper schools anymore.

?????

Listen to R21's sage advice, OP.

If you need to borrow over 30K in loans to pay for tuition, then maybe you need to rethink your educational expectations.

As a student, you should never borrow more than 30k . It's call common sense.

Well, if you want a bunch of American young people, who have the brains to become high professionals, not going to college because the price is prohibitive, so that we become a nation of morons who cannot compete in the world market or even govern a country, R35's advice will take you far.

I had a friend who had a ton of student loan debt. Worse still is he didn't even finish his degree. He ended up moving to Thailand and taught ESL. The US sent letter after letter asking for the money which he never paid. Finally after a long period of time his debt was forgiven. it was sent to the IRS as income so he now owes taxes on it but that is a fraction of what he once owed. Perhaps a long stint overseas is the ticket. The expat life is so fun.

OP walk across the Canadian border and declare Asylum by saying USA is an unsafe country

You will like it in Canada

Yes R27 you are absolutely right but back in the 90s it was made to seem very normal and that salaries would raise to meet inflation, cost of living etc. They also led you to believe companies would pay for skilled, educated professionals so it seemed to make sense. Now a college degree is no guarantee of a decent salary. Many of those employed today are underemployed because companies exploited the economic crisis to hire people on the cheap. Most people with college degrees are worse off than those who just enter the work force and are able to get hired and trained cheap by companies since they don’t have the student loan debt we do.

Whenever I talk to a young person about college I warn them about the albatross of student loans and encourage them to do the math regarding salaries in their field and whether a degree makes sense. Same goes for MAs and PHDs. If they decide to get a degree they should do it without student loan debt if possible.

This scene from Pinocchio represents the trap of student loan debt.

OP, the higher ed bubble will probably burst during the Trump era, like the housing bubble during the Bush era. Its just like the housing market was ten years ago, completely out of control and about to fold on itself.

Just pray that whatever happens, the government absolves some of your debt after the higher ed market crashes. Hopefully they will have programs like Obama created for people who couldn't afford their mortgages after the Recession.

My husband defaulted on a student loan years ago, so I have a little experience with that. So far as I know, the only thing the gov can do if you stop paying is garnish your wages to a certain amount and keep any tax return money you’d get back. During lean times, he’d send ten or twenty bucks to them monthly instead of the full amount. Somehow it kept the loan from going into default. They bugged him for more money but never took any action.

All is far in love and debt IMO, especially if you’re not a rich cunt like Trump and can break the law with impunity and still be called an “entrepeneur.” Get away with paying as little as possible for as long as possible. The system is stacked against us.

OP, I totally understand and it's ridiculous that school is that expensive AND that student loans cannot be discharged through bk. I went to school in the late 90's and borrowed $25,000. I consolidated with Sallie Mae at 9% interest and then took a few years of forbearance because I couldn't pay...well that 25,000 ballooned to 35000 with that 9% interest gaining. So as a result I graduated in 1995 and paid off the loan in 2014 and when I paid it off I still owed what I borrowed. How I paid it off was this: I owned a Jeep that I paid in full. So I took that jeep in to carmax. They gave me 15000 for it. I then borrowed 2 grand from my 401k and took the rest from my saving and paid it off. I then bought a brand new jeep with no money down at 2% interest. So essentially, I am driving my student loans BUT my jeep is almost paid off. I was paying 400 per month on student loans and $400 per month on my old jeep, but now my single payment for my jeep is $570. So I'm saving money by doing it this way. I encourage you to think outside the box. You might be surprised at the solutions you can come up with. But I totally understand. My life was completely sidelined by the debt. All my friends were buying houses and I am still renting a tiny, studio guest house. I will likely never be able to retire. College is such a scam.

[quote]ou are absolutely right but back in the 90s

Well of course it was better. We had the Clintons in power that never allowed predatory lenders to take advantage of naive students.

I hope those Bernie Bros drown in the student debt.

You don't pay more tax than corporations and trump can't escape debts through bankruptcy. You should have taken a few economic courses.

Yeah, I just confirmed with my husband that he underpaid for several months in a row, even just ten bucks monthly. So long as he was on time, they’d send threatening letters but never took action against him. He DID accrue a lot of interest diring that time, but what is the difference between $100K and $200K? You are unlikely to ever pay off either. You could go three months with minimal/ tiny payments, then make a full payment once in awhile to reset things.

It may be worth talking to an attorney who specialize in this kind of thing. Whatever you do, DON’T be ashamed or afraid to fight dirty. It’s your life, it’s short, and you can’t be a slave to your debt forever. Rich people are trained how to break rules and break the social contract, we are not. It’s how they remain rich. We have to learn on our own.

R44,

Trump has used bankruptcy courts many many times to escape debts from contractors. And, yes, he does pay more as a percentage of his income than the effective corporate tax rate (effectively the AMT), which is different that the nominal rate (because of accounting games).

Yeah you are right lol

^^^

I realized my sentence was ambiguous. When I said "he does pay more...," that "he" referred to the OP.

Just in case, OP:

OP is referring to the percentage, not the amount paid in taxes. Last time I checked I paid more that 10%

Corporate share of federal tax revenue has dropped by two-thirds in 60 years — from 32% in 1952 to 10% in 2013.

General Electric, Boeing, Verizon and 23 other profitable Fortune 500 firms paid no federal income taxes from 2008 to 2012.

288 big and profitable Fortune 500 corporations paid an average effective federal tax rate of just 19.4% from 2008 to 2012.

Profitable corporations paid U.S. income taxes amounting to just 12.6% of worldwide income in 2010.

U.S. corporations dodge $90 billion a year in income taxes by shifting profits to subsidiaries — often no more than post office boxes — in tax havens. U.S. corporations officially hold $2.1 trillion in profits offshore — much of it in tax havens — that have not yet been taxed here

Thank you R45 for the perspective. You are wise. Your husband is lucky to have you! 😊🙏

R32, I'm 53. I wonder if Canada would hire me if I returned to school and became fluent in the language - which would probably take a few years.

Declaring asylum would probably be the better option at my age :)

IN Canada you can include them in a consumer proposal or bankruptcy 7 years after you graduate.

R52 what skills can you bring to Canada?

I remember when my 8K debt felt like it would kill me but kids today have it much worse.

One of my coworker friends in accounts payable processes the requests for employees to have their checks garnished for student loans. We have a good laugh when she finds out someone we don't like has to have their check garnished.

i'm confused about the person who claims 60K (or 60% of the original loan) got added as a "collection" fee when the loan was sold. Selling a loan isn't that same as collections. And federal student loans aren't sold anymore. and even if this was the old days of bank bank based student lending ,you'd never have that kind of 'fee'. maybe it was a lot of unpaid interest or something.

It’s depressing that student loan debt is like a felony conviction, but the only thing you did “wrong” was be a hopeful young person trying to get an education.

I hate to be Mr. Skeptical, but how on earth is it possible for this premise to be true?

"I owed a little over $100K and was on a payment plan. And then my loan kept getting sold back and forth and back and forth and every time it did, I got roughly $60K tacked onto my loan as a 'collection fee.' My loan has now swelled to $450K and I stopped paying because it's just throwing money away."

The loan being "sold back and forth" cost you $60k because of some kind of black magic? I used to owe $60k (twenty years ago) and I had my loans bought and sold, but the principle and interest were never affected. Please tell me that people aren't getting THAT abused these days.

R59 they are. how do you think these loan companies make money?

The old-fashioned way? Interest?

What’s rough is that all these companies that supposedly are designed to advise you on your student loan and offer assistance are either a racket or financed by the banking industry so you are never really dealing with someone who is a true advocate.

It’s like the debt consolidation companies are funded by credit card companies themselves—so of course they are going to be designed to squeeze blood out of a turnip (you).

Not that the student debt crisis not a real thing, but OP does not make any sense. 60 K in transfer fees, that just doesn’t sound right

OP if you can get a job in the public sector (government or a non profit) you can take advantage of the public sector loan forgiveness program. You’ll get on an income based repayment program that limits your payments to a manageable portion of your income and then in ten years your loans will be forgiven.

If you’re unable to find any job in the public sector you should still apply to an IBR program.

R62– never, ever, ever trust a debt consolidation company. They are nothing but a huge scam, they pretend to negotiate with the banks to lower the amount you all but what they actually do is make this payment And you are liable for the rest at a later date. In some cases, they don’t even make the payment and just keep the money for themselves and the debtor is actually much worse off than originally

Where do you work that you get monthly raises?

R54 I am a database analyst. I also have years of experience as a bank fraud investigator. BS degree in business. The big bank I work for is aging me out of my job - it's only a matter of time. I still have a long way to go before retirement, and I have not been able to find another banking position. I imagine Canada already has plenty of workers with business and banking skills.

R66 I meant annual raises, sorry.

I’m not sure who was talking about 60K in fees, etc but it wasn’t me, the OP.

[quote]fast-tracked to a good job in Canada as we are in desperate need of french teachers

[quote]because we desperately need teachers who can speak french

Don't you already have a state that produces nothing but French speakers, poutine, and hung uncut strippers?

Can someone actually go to jail for defaulting on student loan debt?

And if you do go to jail does that wipe out the debt?

Bootstraps, baby. Go!

OP here - I would rather go to jail for 5 years if it meant wiping out my student loan debt forever. I’m serious.

R67 there seems to be a need for fraud investigators in Canada. Why not try head hunting firms to see if there is any interest for you in Canada?

Op, think expat and fuck those loans.

Oh my, In my own third world country, tho crappy as it is, we don't have wage garnishment. That is akin to slavery.

I think that is just it, R75. The problem is the US is still living with financial laws based on realities that no longer exist for the middle class. However instead of helping people up, government and big business is doing more to push people farther down. More people are struggling to just make ends meet and wealth inequality is more similar to third world countries, - but with first world financial expectations.

[quote] The loan being "sold back and forth" cost you $60k because of some kind of black magic? I used to owe $60k (twenty years ago) and I had my loans bought and sold, but the principle and interest were never affected. Please tell me that people aren't getting THAT abused these days.

I can assure you I'm not making it up. Every time I get notified that someone new owns my loan, the amount goes up a mid-five figures and that amount is termed a "collection fee." The attorney I talked to said there was nothing I could do about it to get it reduced if I wound up being sued for payment and I could not go in to ask for the loan to be restored to its amount prior to all the "collection fees." My loan has been sold four times and I've estimated about a quarter million has been tacked on in collection fees alone. The rest is interest, which I can see labeled as such.

R27 was this a defaulted loan that was rehabbed or one of those predatory direct lender loans?

R77 was this a defaulted loan that was rehabbed or one of those predatory direct lender loans?

R77 so what are you going to do? That sounds like an impossible situation.

I agree with the posters that advise the OP to emigrate. Here in my own country, Guatemala, Americans are pretty much idolized and he could earn good money (relative to the country) in a call center or something. He speaking English would find a job in the blink of an eye.

R78, I assume you mean 77 and not 27, so- I had a few forbearances which definitely jacked up my interest amounts but those were before the loans started to change hands. I went back around 2010 and was on a 1-year income based payment plan that was automatically deducted from my checking account. They said after the 12 months they would reassess my income and see what I'd owe going forward. About 8 months into it, the money stopped being deducted, so I investigated. It turned out that company no longer owned my loan and sold it to another company. That new company was not interested in making any sort of deal with me for IBR and was asking for a ridiculous amount per month and had tacked on the first (that I was aware of) "collection fee." I was super pissed at both the old company for reneging on our 12 month agreement and the new company for gouging me and not making it possible for me to pay.

They sold the loan and I was able to do a deal with the third company, and the same thing happened, so I just stopped paying out of principle. Right now, it's in the hands of the government and once they decide to come for me, there's nothing I can do. I'll never be able to pay back a half million dollars.

I may even decide to kill myself if things get that bad, because I'll be damned if I'm going to work my ass off only to give the lion's share over to a bunch of predatory scumbags. It's certainly not my first choice of options and I doubt it would come to that, but if it did, fuck it.

R77 you need to see another attorney because that is absurd. There is no loan agreement that would allow for such a process - if for some bizarre reason it was in your original agreement it would be thrown out as unconscionable by a court

And OP, I didn't mean to hijack your thread with my own sad tale of woe. I apologize.

[quote]I am scared because given the way things are going in our country labor wise I don’t see my situation improving, especially if we go into a recession.

Why would you worry about a recession when Trump is President? It won't happen on his watch.

[quote] [R77] you need to see another attorney because that is absurd. There is no loan agreement that would allow for such a process - if for some bizarre reason it was in your original agreement it would be thrown out as unconscionable by a court

This guy professes to be one of the few attorneys who deals with student loans. I filed bankruptcy about 9 years ago. I got caught up in the '08 crash and was out of work for over a year and my debts just got to the point where I couldn't pay them. I kept putting it off and putting it off out of shame but there was no way I could keep going. I managed to rebuild my credit somewhat and I have never been late with a payment on anything (except, of course, the student loans). I consulted my bankruptcy attorney about 3 years ago about helping out with the student loan thing and she was a massive cunt to me, which I found odd. It wasn't so much what she said but the attitude and total unwillingness to help. I know there's a very popular viewpoint which looks down on people who can't/don't/won't repay their student loans and we're really looked at as the scum of the earth. As I said, I'd be fine with paying off my original loan with a fair rate of interest, but I did not sign up for a half million in debt.

Anyhow, finding attorneys who deal with student loan default is super difficult, so if anyone has someone they trust and think is good, I'd love to know.

No R84 I am sorry for your situation. Please don’t consider suicide as an option. My father thought he wouldn’t have enough to retire bc he thought my mom would get half his retirement so he killed himself when he was forced to retire. After his death we found out since my mom remarried at a certain age she was not entitled to any of it. So if he had just made one phone call he would have found out everything was fine. So you can’t give up. Things change. As hopeless as I feel I think I would be having a panic attack if I were in your situation but you can’t give up! Be strong, brother! 🙏. OP

I was listening to an interview on Pod Save America and they were talking with an author of a book on the student loan crisis. He said only a tiny fraction of student loans are ever discharged due to financial hardship. Apparently it’s a huge process and even then it’s very unlikely you will be let off the hook. I remember them taking about someone who was extremely disabled due to some medical condition and even then it was denied.

Move to an area with less people with a cheaper cost of living.

R86 would you mind sharing what state you live in? I’m an attorney though not in the bankruptcy field, but your story sounds so awful I feel there must be an organization that could help you.

Don't feel hopeless, OP. I don't. What I mean by that is I'm not living my days in fear. When the hammer falls, I'll have to figure out what I'm going to do, but I'm doing my best not to let it overtake my life at the moment, and you shouldn't either. I can't tell you what to do, or even advise you that stopping payment is the way to go. You have to weigh that for yourself. But I do feel in my gut that you cannot let these horribly unfair, predatory loans take over your life, otherwise what good is living?

[quote] I was listening to an interview on Pod Save America and they were talking with an author of a book on the student loan crisis. He said only a tiny fraction of student loans are ever discharged due to financial hardship. Apparently it’s a huge process and even then it’s very unlikely you will be let off the hook. I remember them taking about someone who was extremely disabled due to some medical condition and even then it was denied.

This does not surprise me. If the Occupy movement couldn't get anything changed, and with the lunatic we have in the White House right now, I don't see how anything is going to ever get better for people suffering with this. If anyone ever asked me my advice on going to college, I'd tell them- not without a full scholarship. It's not worth it. And that sucks because I LOVED college. Just loved it. But the expense wasn't worth it, and the degree did me little to no good.

R91 yes you are right, but if you stop paying they garnish your wages for even more per momth plus they confiscate your tax refunds. They basically have you bent over. That’s why I let it get to me. I don’t have the mental and physical stamina to be down and out again. 😕

I wonder if the (at least short term) solution for you, OP, is to do what the person upthread's husband did and just pay $20 a month. It surprises me that they didn't come after him for not paying the agreed upon amount, but after what I went through, I don't profess to understand anything. According to that poster, they didn't, or couldn't, touch him because he was paying something. Might be worth checking into, or perhaps if that poster is still with us, they could elaborate as to why he was able to get away with that. (Bad choice of phrase, I apologize.)

Privately funded student loans are different from federally guaranteed student loans, The FFEL loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy. I worked on a federal contract that researched student loan disputes. I jumped to the end of this thread so I apologize if my point has already been made.

[bold]OP answer the question[/bold], what state you live ?

You don’t want OP’s state you want the poster who owes like a half million in loans R77

OP, open some credit cards. Transfer loan balances to credit cards. Declare bankruptcy. Done.

Start writing slash porn.

How do I get a job in Saudi Arabia???

Australian here and [bold]Oh my fucking GOD![/bold]

This thread is devastating to read - especially R4's story. It's incomprehensible that whatever has happened there is legal and allowed in your country.

I freely admit I don't fully understand how your university system (or your health care system for that matter) works there because it seems deliberately complicated so it's difficult to understand - that said, both sound like an absolute nightmare. I better not mention what my degrees cost because you wont like it. I'm 48 and have 3 degrees. I just finished my second and third at the end of 2017.

I just can't think of anything to say. What would anyone do in R4's situation? How can 60 grand be added onto a loan because it's been sold to a different financial institution? Beggars belief. I would be buying a new identity or leaving the country!

One thing I don't think is helpful are the posters who studied in the seventies, eighties and nineties making shitty comparative comments about how it was in their day as compared to now. Chalk and cheese folks. Those posts are less than meaningless and carefully designed to be agitative and demoralising.

R101 frankly a lot of us Americans don’t understand it either and have never heard of such a thing.

Which isn’t to say education here isn’t a total scam. Schools are raking in obscene amounts of money for little pay off for students. But public universities are still fairly affordable and people should take advantage of that especially if they’re going into low paying fields.

Yet another, I got my own self into this mess and it isn't my fault.

Try viewing the world for what it is and accept your own failures as your own.

Until you do this, nothing will improve.

But much like the homosexual who think taking antiretrovirals and exposing future generations to supervirus is much better than a 25 cent condom, while being effective, you are too wrapped up in your own self induced crisis to see reality.

Yes, it isn't my fault, the words of the Hillary generation, everyone else is as fault but me

You can't seriously be talking like that to someone like R4 can you R103?

You just can't be.

I actually think that top schools are actually that insanely expensive if meant to keep the lower classes, well low. If you're rich, even if your'e dumb and can afford a top school, you go out and get a high paying job and continue the cycle of wealth. Disgusting what America has become.

Bankruptcy is a legal term for when a person or business cannot repay their outstanding debts.

Why don’t student loans count if I will never pay them off even if I live to be 100?

[quote]Can someone actually go to jail for defaulting on student loan debt?

Absolutely not. There is no debtor’s prison in the US. Wage garnishment (up to a certain percentage of pay) and keeping tax returns is about all they can do. There may be additional, more obscure penalties, like not being eligible for more loans. Late payments and default will appear on your credit report.

I don't get why someone would willingly go to a private college and pay $35,000 per year. That's nuts. Do people close their eyes when filling out these loan forms? All these private colleges and universities which charge an arm and a leg for a liberal arts education have really driven up the numbers.

Aspiration R108. It's not rocket science.

The student loan problem was created by our government. It turns an annual crop of young people into indentured servants for banks. Work all you can and send your earnings to the banks. Of course, along the way, people make bad personal choices, too. But the system that ensnares them forever was created by Congress. Allowing18 year olds to sign promissory notes for tens of thousands of dollars is part of the problem. They may be 18, but most of them are too young and inexperienced to appreciate the debt problem they create. Many graduate with a bachelor's degree and a load of debt equal to a small mortgage. They can never succeed under that sort of circumstance. Not that Congress or the banking lobby care about that. Our entire system of higher education has been perverted by our government into a way for banks to make a fuck of a lot of money.

It all hinges on student loans being non-dischargable in bankruptcy. That law is the security the banks want to loan the money. And almost every year, the colleges and universities raise the tuition, so students have to borrow more money. As long as the loan is non-dischargable in bankruptcy, it is easy for the banks to keep matching the tuition increases.

It is rarely possible to discharge student loan debt. It requires a second proceeding after the rest of the bankruptcy petition is resolved. And even if the debtor has become disabled, that loan is not generally dischargable. (You have to die to get that benefit, but at least your estate does not have to pay off the banks before your children can be provided for.) If the debtor has at some point quit paying the loan, there is no discharge. You have to show the judge that you tried to pay, but could not pay. So send $10 a month. Or $5. But when you get to federal bankruptcy court and try to discharge the student loan, you need to show the judge you made an effort to pay. That effort to pay is required. A small amount every month will at least establish a pattern of payment. If the judge is inclined to approve, that payment makes it possible. But even if the judge wants to approve the discharge of the federally insured student loan, it will not be possible if there has been no credible attempt to pay the loan. Send something every month!

This has to change..that every other kind of debt - including taxes - (if returns are filed),can be bankrupted, that every other situation gets a do-over, including corporations, yet student debt can be a form of lifetime slavery. Sickening that paid lobbyists of the student loan industry wrote these laws and that congress went along with it. Can't there be some class action suit on this? It has to be really dragging on the economy to have all these people slogging under this.

Student loan collection fees:

[quote]Example:Janet’s current student loan obligation, including principal and interest, is $10,000. Assume that the commission paid to collectors is 30% of the amount collected. Even if Janet immediately pays the full $10,000, the government will first apply the funds to pay the collection commission, leaving only $7,000 to apply to the outstanding balance. This means that Janet’s obligation is lowered only to $3000. To pay off the $10,000 balance, she must immediately pay $14,285.71. The government will apply 30% of that amount (30% of $14,285.71 is $4285.71) to collection costs. The remainder ($10,000) pays off the loan.

R98 is brilliant!

I can relate. My student loan balance was near 200k when I defaulted. Once I defaulted, my balance went up to $275k with “collection fees.” There’s no way I’m going to be able to pay off more than a quarter million dollars. It’s super depressing.

[quote]There is no debtor’s prison in the US.

If only.

When people spend more money than they have, they give themselves a lot of trouble. If you can not afford an expensive school, you don't go to one.

Collection fees and interest is what is the problem. They are obscene and akin to slavery. I agree, if someone gets a loan for college they should pay it, but if no ¨collection fees¨ and if they prove they're not well off, then no interest. That's inmoral.

It pretty much looks like we are going to be a fascist nation soon...maybe it will be good for banks but not for us.

I was raised in Britain by a family who believed in the maxim—

"Neither a borrower nor a lender be, For loan oft loses both itself and friend".

So my parents were always doing deals. No pocket money without chores. They'd pay for my accommodation at home OR (the admittedly inexpensive college tuition fees).

I have only borrowed once since then; a 25 year house mortgage which I paid off in half the time. I remember Scarlett O' Hara's line about NEVER going into debt.

The hedonistic American lifestyle exemplified by the couple in the video is utterly foreign to me.

I don't know that much about this, but I do know quite a few people who have lots of student loan debt and just don't pay it. Nothing has happened to any of them (yet). Two friends get the very least amount of taxes taken out of their paychecks because they are afraid the government will start taking their tax returns to pay off the loans. One of them invests in his 401 K. He figures they won't touch that and it decreases his tax return. They don't make enough to probably ever own homes. The government could put a loan on your house if it wanted to

I really wish Obama would have done something about this when he was in office

[quote]Throw a Hail Mary and get to hustling on West Hollywood OP. There is no honor in drowning in debt. Get your self a sugar daddy that is loaded.

You'll have better luck in Palm Springs.

R120 he did a lot. More IBR programs were implemented under him and the above mentioned Public Sector Loan Forgiveness Program was also implimented.

President Obama would have done a lot of things but Repugs refused to let him. Why do people put in a president but then cut him off at the knees. Americans are pea brains.

R119, are you the same Brit who won’t spend your hard-earned tourist dollars in the US anymore? You have the same superciious tone. It’s not appealing.

There was a HUGE bill on Congress in 2014 regarding student loans, and I thought, "Finally, the millions of young people affected will turn out to vote for the Dems looking to make their lives better!" Nope. Nobody showed at all.

We all know how well they turned out in 2016. Fuck 'em. I don't have student loans, I didn't go to college for long and paid as I went. I'm all set, but you better keep paying your debt, or they will FUCK with you!

r119 What did that have to do with student loans?

Equating the “hedonistic American lifestyle” with people taking out loans for school is idiotic.

OP I'm sorry I'm on my way out so I can't dig up the links now, but try searching for people paying smaller amounts monthly on their loans before default. When I was struggling, I found two sites at least where people had figured out they could pay X amount each month, so they sent a letter notifying the lender that they wanted to pay but were only able to send X monthly.

The lenders sued but in both cases the judge ruled that the borrower could keep sending X because the borrower was clearly trying not to default.

In my case what I did was first declare bankruptcy on medical (and a little credit card) debt. Then during bankruptcy proceedings I contacted the Navient (Sallie Mae) ombudsman and worked with them on trying to lower payments. After months the ombudsman wasn't able to fix the problem (Navient had "lost" 12 months of forbearance and wouldn't give me a reduced payment even though I qualified) so she helped me transfer my loan to Nelnet.

Nelnet isn't great but they lowered my payments to $145 a month on a $65K loan, and I have 18 months forbearance if I need it, too.

I can't tell if you're still with your original lender but if you are, this may be an option.

Also pick up extra work on MTurk -- it's best with a PC or laptop, and the Reddit sub has a lot of great info.

If you can come up with a wacky life story then start vlogging and hit social media and get those coins through patreon, baby. No shame.

R100 My friends got hired to work in Saudi Arabia through an agency. I guess you could just search online for how to get a job in Saudi Arabia and then do research into the different agencies and jobs available.

They both had a lot of experience teaching so I don't think you can get the type of jobs they had as a newbie. But if you have experience in a field that they need there, it might work out. Good luck!

While well-intentioned, the public service forgiveness program and all of those income based repayment plans help contribute to the problem. They treat the illness after you have already gotten sick instead of trying to prevent the illness in the first place. Those programs do nothing to encourage schools to cut the price. In fact, it probably encourages them to increase it more since someone else is picking up the tab. Feds make money available with no credit check, no analysis of a student's abilities, major, or school choices, and States cut funding, so colleges will just continue to hike up the price because they can. The only way I see this stopping is if the demand for higher education ends. Maybe that's part of the master plan.

Apparently school costs are a racket to some degree. Many schools charge tuition to extract and hoard as much money as possible from students since there isn’t much regulation on how much a school can charge and what it needs to run and how that money is spent. Colleges and universities claim they need x amount of dollars while investing as little as possible in the school’s education system. Meanwhile they are hoarding millions for things like sports, buildings, events, and a bloated overpaid administration. Read any blog about how little universities pay adjunct faculty to teach. Every time a tenured faculty professor retires they hire three adjunct professors for a song and no benefits, claiming they can’t afford to hire full time professors,—but then turn around and spend millions on some unnecessary landscaping or sports team event. Basically they morphed corporate model with higher learning, even though higher learning is at the back of the plane near the bathroom while profits are sitting first class.

Have you considered Chaturbate?

If I were you, I would change my name and pay for a new social security number. You have to move and start over but you will never pay off that loan

PS, studies show Millenials think they will retire as millionaires even though they don’t save money. Good luck

[quote] If I were you, I would change my name and pay for a new social security number. You have to move and start over but you will never pay off that loan

Umm, wouldn't there be a HUGE red flag to the government if someone in their 30s or 40s started filing taxes on a SS# that had never been used before?

Who says you pay taxes?

OP I'm with others who say to get yourself a public sector job (local, state or federal) and then enroll in the student loan forgiveness program (PSLF). Your loans will be forgiven after 10 years of payments. Government work is also stable and far more secure than the private sector (although this can vary by state, I suppose). I'm sure after the first two years you'll be able to move up into better paying jobs that can also help you get your life back on track. Say bye bye to the private sector.

I would make this a major project.

Just tear up those bills and run away!

Where does one find specifically private sector jobs? Asking for myself and OP both.

Public sector, sorry. It's been a long fucking day.

California jobs

[quote]Even with the income based repayment plan they want 300 dollars a month, which is close to 20 percent of my monthly income.

So your monthly income is 1500? You have to find a job that pays for than that, and you can. That isn't a high bar. Don't stop until you do.

There is no way around it, you have to be making more money.

OP, the fees are fishy. I would read your loan note. Pay attention to anything that says fee or transfer.

Also, ask the loan company for a copy of the note. Don’t tell them if you have a copy of it, if you do. During the Great Recession, some people were released from their debt, because their loan was sold, and the newer collection agency didn’t have all the appropriate collection paperwork.

How the fucking hell is it even legal to ¨sell¨ other people's debts???

Years ago, I had a sweet loan. 7% when interest rates were generally much higher, like 18%.

I graduated and reviewed my loan status with the loan office before I left school. After some months, they sold the loan to some company, and then increased my monthly payment. They claimed I borrowed more than I did. I called the loan company. I told them I didn’t borrow the last tranche. The loan officer was probably used to people complaining when in the wrong, so she was an awful bitch. She didn’t listen to me at all.

I sent a long letter. I first asked them to identify themselves, as I hadn’t borrowed from them at all. etc. Finally, I figured that they didn’t know that I had graduated and deposited another semester’s worth of a loan into my bank account. So, I kept it.

After more months, they wrote and called, demanding the last tranche back. I told them that I had begged them to take it back, and they had refused, so now I was going to keep it, though still making monthly payments. They dropped the matter.

My original $25K has ballooned up to $41K. I refuse to pay it as I consider it extortionate. They keep snatching my annual tax money which amounts to about $4K to $5K - and they weren't applying it against the loan. So where the fuck was it going? Finally I noted it shot up to $47K now down to $41K. I've been socking away money - at the point I have $25K I'll approach them to settle it for that amount.

I generally ask twice about a billing discrepancy. If it’s a cunty person or company, I don’t tell them or even hint, that the error is in my favor. They will often get upset, thinking that I’m complaining about an error in their favor. So, after two or three tries, I drop it. Particularly if they are rude about it.

R146, seriously, ask for a copy of the contract. If they don’t have it, they can’t bill you.

And the fees are crazy-bad.

Then tell us what happened! Please!

Is bankruptcy a good idea for student debt of 175K and higher?

are you hot? a hairy hung dad? start an OnlyFans page and charge $19.99/month and get 700 people to follow/subscribe/pay you should clear $10,000 USD after commission and taxes

Butt you have to post pics and videos at least 3 times a week so your subscribers will not get mad and quit you

i know a guy who clears $4,000 a month and has been doing it for 6 months now

its work, but easier, smarter and not harder, well only his cock is hard

Alright, blocked. ^.

I don't understand people who borrow money with no understanding of what it will take to pay it back. Just because you CAN go to a university that will cost you $100k+ for a degree, that doesn't mean you SHOULD go to that university. It's no different than borrowing money for a house or a car...only buy what you can afford to pay back.

OP, if you owe over $100k but you're only paying back $3,600 a year ($300 x 12), then, yeah, it's going to take a long time. Honestly, with interest, you're NEVER going to pay it off. How did you think you would back when you signed the paperwork? I'm not trying to be a bitch, I'm just genuinely interested in what you really THOUGHT from the beginning?

[quote] I'm not trying to be a bitch

Yeah, you pretty obviously are.

You sound real interested, R152. More interested in brow-beating, I think.

[quote]I'm not trying to be a bitch

Yeah. Right.

No, I'm not trying to be a bitch. I just honestly want to know what goes through people's minds when they borrow money that they have little to no hope of paying back, at least without real sacrifice. Just saying "I don't want to pay it back" is not a realistic strategy.

Alright, there’s no sense in rehashing what people already know. You’re perfect, obviously. And, because you’re so perfect, you’re blocked. I’m only interested in solutions to getting out of student debt not what R 156 is asking. We’re past that. Start another thread on that topic. Thank you.

Maybe there should be a program like the “scared straight” one, where borrowers, in exchange for leniency, would visit high schools and colleges and warn students not to borrow such extreme amounts of money.

I have a question. Up thread someone talked about having their income tax refund taken. Wouldn't it be better to figure out your deduction so that you actually owe some money, rather than giving the govt an interest-free loan every year?

But you are asking an 18 year old with no real knowledge of the world or finances to understand these sorts of things r152.

You are young, you are raised to be believe you just go to college and you will have a nice career making good money and everything will work out fine. The reality of these student loans and how you will have to pay it back is such a foreign concept. What does an 18 year old really understand about paying bills and how much money it takes to live on? You are so excited about going to college, you also don't realize how you might graduate and struggle to find high paying employment. No one wants to think it will be them.

Nowadays I do think we are more honest about the financial realities, and how many college grads are working at Starbucks, but it took us til now basically to be honest about these type of conversations.

Is bankruptcy a good idea for extreme student debt?

Leave the country. It's going to shit anyway. You can start over somewhere new and in a few years give up your American passport.

Thanks, R160. I guess I'm hoping that there are parents who are helping those 18 year olds think more broadly. It's obvious that high schools need to be doing a better job of teaching kids about personal budgets, realistic salary expectations, etc. I'll bet a bunch of people end up with exorbitant credit card debt for the same reasons as well.

Never said I was perfect, R157. I guess I was just forward-looking enough to do the math. If you want to know how to get out of debt, the answer is pretty straightforward: stop spending as much money on everything else and put it towards paying down your debt. Don't eat out, get rid of your phone or at least figure out a way to pare the cost back, move to a cheaper place, etc. It's just that people don't like that answer. They want to have their cake and eat it too. That doesn't work.

[quote] OP, open some credit cards. Transfer loan balances to credit cards. Declare bankruptcy. Done.

Why didn't I think of that?

My $20k loan from eons ago became $65k over the years - maybe more I don't even pay attention if I get any mail on it.. I got $18k in disbursments after the initial yearly fees for each of 4 years. The total cost of the loan was $30k. I paid back about maybe $23-25k but that was it. I had some financial issues and tried to by refinancing but I just couldn't and stopped. There are some ways to get it forgiven. I am considering applying for it. Actually a rather high up official at DOE who was a friend of a friend told me it was possible under certain conditions to get it forgiven. But that was a while ago and I just haven't wanted to deal with it. I'm self employed so no one really bothers me.

R163, I don't think you have a complete grasp of the situation. They told you that the loans were being repackaged and every time the balance shot up. It's like the mortgage crisis. Yes people overbought but the everyone--banks, loan companies, realtors-- was telling them they could do this. Heck, even the FINANCIAL columnist for the WAPO got caught underwater. And a lot of people were like, no, this is a debt, I must keep trying to pay because I'm an honorable person but the wiser ones just mailed in the keys and walked away. Years and years of hearing how your house is a solid investment. Same with college, in order to succeed, you need a college degree. Even pathetic entry level jobs require it.

Nope, you're better off learning a trade/becoming an apprentice. Or joining the military (yikes) for the GI Bill. Or going to a cheaper community college and starting your own business. Or working for a few years after high school until you know what you really want to do for a career and then applying to uni. Heck, work at an admin job AT the uni and take classes tuition-free. But who can figure all that out when they're 18?

oh, and that "work in a poor rural area as a teacher for ten years and get your loans forgiven"? That went away with Betsy deVos.

"But you are asking an 18 year old with no real knowledge of the world or finances to understand these sorts of things [R152]."

That's what these things called parents are for. They're supposed to be providing guidance and financial help. If they can't provide financial help, the very least parents can do is counsel their children about avoiding excessive debt. Also, they should be suggesting alternate means to financing an education, like living at home while working full time and saving money for tuition, or attending community college, or gasp, gasp, going to trade school. I know a lot of electricians, plumbers and auto mechanics making big money. They're also working their asses off because nobody wants to do this type of work anymore as it's "demeaning." As if having a Bachelors Degree and making 30K/year at some shit administrative assistant job isn't demeaning.

[quote] Never said I was perfect, [R157]. I guess I was just forward-looking enough to do the math. If you want to know how to get out of debt, the answer is pretty straightforward: stop spending as much money on everything else and put it towards paying down your debt. Don't eat out, get rid of your phone or at least figure out a way to pare the cost back, move to a cheaper place, etc. It's just that people don't like that answer. They want to have their cake and eat it too. That doesn't work.

We've heard enough from you. Get off the fucking thread and go haunt someone else. You're not offering an ounce of help and no one here gives one half of a fuck for what you have to say.

Jesus. Triggered much, R168? There isn't anything to do but stop spending as much money on other things and use it to pay off the debt. What's your brilliant solution?

I don't like blocking people, but enough with that asshole already..

[quote]That's what these things called parents are for. They're supposed to be providing guidance and financial help.

That's sweet, but the reality is many parents are useless when it comes to stuff like this. I was raised in a single-parent home with a mother who never went to college, I navigated all this on my own. Thankfully through financial aid and academic scholarships I came out pretty well.

[quote]I'll bet a bunch of people end up with exorbitant credit card debt for the same reasons as well.

Though I did end up foolishly getting a credit card at 18 and fell into this trap which I regretted and had to liv with, but I was thankfully able to manage it.

Not having kids, when my friend was worrying about sending her daughter to college, I was all like, "Have her get a part time joooobbbb, she can work aaand take classes". Then my friend clued me in on what tuition is like these days and no part time job at the mini-mart (very small town) is going to make a dent in tuition. And this was a branch campus of a state school.

I really have no sympathy for those who accrued exorbitant student debt. You made a lot of bad decisions over a long period of time for that to happen. The debt is your problem.

- A well employed Brooklyn College Alum who worked through college

Americans don't like living within their means...they want more expensive college, more expensive cars, and more expensive housing than they can afford, and they don't want to be told that isn't possible. They hate math. And when they are confronted with the inevitable conclusion, they get angry with the people delivering the facts.

I’ve taken a second job to help pay off my debt. Hope that makes things easier. If not, I’ll consider bankruptcy. I’ll consult an attorney.

Good job, R175. Good luck. Really think about every dollar you spend. You can't get to a thousand dollars all at one time; it's made up of a couple dollars at a time.

What is the point of browbeating people that are trying to get out of debt? Jerks

Yes,many people who went to college decades ago don't understand how things aren't the same anymore r172.

[quote]Americans don't like living within their means

It is hard to live within your means as wages for most workers have stagnated, leaving a middle class that has been shrinking for decades with income gains in America going to the high earners.

Exactly right, R172. Just because it's a public university doesn't mean it's cheap and no part-time job is going to pay it. Community college for the first two years is a good idea.

R167-I don't know anyone who demeans plumbers, electricians, etc.

[quote]Is bankruptcy a good idea for extreme student debt?

It’s been mentioned more than once on this thread, but I will say it again. Student loans are not discharged when one declares bankruptcy. Bankruptcy does not get rid of student loans. You must demonstrate extraordinary circumstances to get your student loan discharged, like permament severe disability. There are many articles about qualifying factors online.

Be careful about charging up credit cards in anticipation of declaring bankruptcy. If the judge reviewing your bankruptcy case determines that you knowingly accrued debt without intending to pay it off, he will still make you pay it back. This comes as a very unpleasant surprise to prople who said “fuck it” and charged up a ton before declaring bankruptcy, figuring that it would all be discharged with a bankruptcy judgment.

Research the public service loan forgiveness option carefully. I was recently reading an article about the extremely low number of people who have had luck with that program. You have to be on a particular loan repayment schedule with a perfect history of on time payments to qualify. It is not as easy as it sounds.

^ That's right. And 'really think about every dollar you spend'.

Think about all that money spent on tuition and be like all those Asiatic who get maximum benefit in their college years and don't waste their time on lifestyle pursuits, hanging around in cars and getting into student rallies protesting over this and that nonsense .

It is absurd that student loan debt can't be wiped off in bankruptcy.

The whole point of the bankruptcy system is to give people an option who are in a unmanageable financial position and need a fresh start. You can do it with credit cards, mortgage loans, medical debt, and anything else...except student loans.

The law needs to be changed.

I am sympathetic OP. I was able to pay for undergrad myself, but I racked up around 100k in graduate school. I had a ton of scholarships / fellowships, but had to take out the loans to pay for living expenses. I was able to make some great money until recently (worked for the government until we were shut down in the Trump administration) and had to go back for a Ph.D.

Keep your head up!

Nobody is browbeating anyone, R177. All I've seen is honest advice. If you were hoping for a miracle answer that doesn't involve some sort of financial discomfort, you aren't living in the real world.

There is no real answer. If OP is making 1500/mo he is never going to pay back several hundred thousands in debt. That isn't a "don't buy lunch or starbucks and try to save up" situation.

Honestly the person who told him to see if he can put as much on credit cards as he can and declare bankruptcy is the only realistic plan of attack I can think of.

Prudence is preferable to penury.

Do you have a roommate, OP? If not, maybe get one, to save money on rent/utilities/etc

Some one else here says—

"It sucked when my car was in the shop and I had to ride with the rest of the poor unfortunate souls who's parents didn't get them a car.

Sensible people catch a train or a bus if they want to keep out of debt.

[quote] I don't understand people who borrow money with no understanding of what it will take to pay it back.

This applies to millions of Americans and is not helpful

[quote]Even with the income based repayment plan they want 300 dollars a month, which is close to 20 percent of my monthly income.

This can't be true because the amount is capped to 10% of your monthly income.

And it’s not just Americans it’s people all over the world. Trump himself is up to his eyeballs in debt

[quote]I'm not trying to be a bitch, I'm just genuinely interested in what you really THOUGHT from the beginning?

Actually, you are trying to be a bitch, and you should really shut the fuck up because you don't know what you are talking about. You dumb bitch. Your probably bitter because you couldn't get into a decent college.

Listen up, folks. This is how student loans can get you in trouble. It's called CAPITALIZATION. Capitalization is the reason why people's balances seem to never go down over time. Or why their balance seems to suddenly balloon without warning.

If you borrow anything more than $20,000 while you are a student, these loans a ticking time bomb because of capitalization. What happens is, you come out of college and they put you on a repayment plan based on your income. Oftentimes, kids coming out of college have their payments capped at 10% of their discretionary income, such that the payments do not necessarily cover the amount of interest that accrues during the month since the last payment. When that happens, the interest that is not covered, ALONG WITH ALL OF THE INTEREST THAT ACCRUED DURING THE TIME HE OR SHE WAS A STUDENT, accrues alongside the principle balance. Not with the principle balance, but alongside, almost as a separate account. So someone could be making payments as required, while the total interest accrued grows alongside, but separate, from the principle. The problem is that under certain circumstances, that interest will capitalize. It is added to the principle balance, so that you are then paying interest on the interest that has accrued. You would think the government would place restrictions around which events trigger capitalization, but it does not. The servicing companies are free to capitalize almost whenever they wish. Even changing your repayment plan because you lose a job will trigger capitalization. In those circumstances, when your principle balance (which is the amount that, together with the interest rate, determines how much interest accrues alongside, but separate from, the principle balance) balloon's from $10,000 (down from $20,000) all the way back up to $30,000, you monthly payment might actually triple. Thus begins the cycle.

That is how people get into trouble with student loans. It has nothing to do with borrowing more than you can pay back. It has to do with the usurious conditions under which the government collects the money that is owed.

"Actually, you are trying to be a bitch, and you should really shut the fuck up because you don't know what you are talking about. You dumb bitch. Your probably bitter because you couldn't get into a decent college."

Actually, R192, I was able to get in to a decent enough college that I know, "You dumb bitch." isn't a complete sentence, and I also know the difference between "Your" and "You're." I also DO know what I'm talking about, whether you want to believe it or not, and I'm not bitter at all. Better luck next time.

[quote]Actually, R192, I was able to get in to a decent enough college that I know, "You dumb bitch." isn't a complete sentence, and I also know the difference between "Your" and "You're."

Okay, so let's talk about YOUR grammatical errors on this thread, Miss Underachiever Hall Monitor.

Let's start with this one: "How did you think you would back when you signed the paperwork?"

Unlike anything that I wrote, that sentence does not even make sense.

Or how about this: "Americans don't like living within their means...they want more expensive college, more expensive cars, and more expensive housing than they can afford"

That would be "more expensive colleges," plural. I am pretty sure they taught subject-verb agreement in high school and expected you to already know it by the time you got to college. Unless you went to community college, that is.

So .... that takes care of that.

[quote]I also DO know what I'm talking about, whether you want to believe it or not, and I'm not bitter at all. Better luck next time.

Obviously you don't if you think this issue is entirely, or even mostly, the result of people living beyond their means. It has nothing to do with that.

So shut the fuck up.

Who wins? R94 or R93?

Who's the prettiest?

In general, I’m against lawsuits, but I wish that people with student debt could sue their university to get most of their money back. The universities sold a product with an unconscionable price and they shouldn’t get away with it.

R196 some law students have. The law school racket is slightly different from undergrad in that law school is supposed to be, essentially a vocational school that gets you a job or at least helps enable you to pass the Bar. So many lower ranked schools flat out lied about the employment statistics of their graduates, claiming excellent employment numbers when barely any were employed as lawyers after graduation. All this while charging upwards of 50k a year. Multiple lawsuits are pending.

The entire system needs to be regulated because free market is not working to bring the price down.

Caveat emptor. (That means "let the buyer beware," R194. Didn't want to have to make you look it up.)

R198, I graduated from the University of Illinois College of Law in 2001. So I already knew that. Dipshit.

. . . so many angry people in this thread . . .

[quote]I went to school in the late 90s-early00s, and my state school tuition was much less than that of the shitty community college in my neighborhood

When I started my state college in 1991 I had a $750/ semester scholarship for getting good SAT scores. It paid all my tuition the first year. The second year, tuition had gone up so much it paid about 80% of it. Third year it only paid half -- tuition by 1994 had doubled from 1991.

The cost of books rose as well. Found out years later that the same art history book my partner bought in 1990 for $40 was $89 for me in 1993.

If I'd known when I was 18 that tuition and books would double or triple over four years, that housing was owned by professors who charged $400 per person per month in the mid 1990s for condemned buildings, I never would have gone.

But how could I have ever know this? As soon as I realized I couldn't afford it anymore I quit (8 hours short of a degree) but the $27K I borrowed is now about $65K after years of payments.

[quote]Also, ask the loan company for a copy of the note. Don’t tell them if you have a copy of it, if you do. During the Great Recession, some people were released from their debt, because their loan was sold, and the newer collection agency didn’t have all the appropriate collection paperwork.

Yes! This from the New York Times last year:

"Tens of thousands of people who took out private loans to pay for college but have not been able to keep up payments may get their debts wiped away because critical paperwork is missing.

The troubled loans, which total at least $5 billion, are at the center of a protracted legal dispute between the student borrowers and a group of creditors who have aggressively pursued them in court after they fell behind on payments.

Judges have already dismissed dozens of lawsuits against former students, essentially wiping out their debt, because documents proving who owns the loans are missing. A review of court records by The New York Times shows that many other collection cases are deeply flawed, with incomplete ownership records and mass-produced documentation."

OP -- and others in the same boat -- immediately request all the paperwork on your loan and contact a non-profit like those mentioned in this article to review it.

Something doesnt add up here. If 300 is close to 20% of your monthly income, you are making less than 10 dollars an hour. That's less than minimum wage in most places and you say you have a 401K and a regular car payment?

This thread is incredibly depressing.

R204 This thread may be depressing for the indebted.

But it's water-off-a-duck's-back for the prudent.

r205 I got lucky -- my parents were financially conservative; they saved and invested wisely. I have zero debt from my education.

But I know that many people are not so lucky.

[quote]Also, ask the loan company for a copy of the note. Don’t tell them if you have a copy of it, if you do. During the Great Recession, some people were released from their debt, because their loan was sold, and the newer collection agency didn’t have all the appropriate collection paperwork.

This will not work for federal loans.

Dying with your debt maxxed out should be everyone's goal.

I a millennial with a good job who majored in math and will be able to pay off my student loans. I'm only opening with that so people realize I'm not saying what I'm about to say for my own benefit. I'll be fine either way

Most federal student loan debt should be forgiven and we need a system that creates far less debt. There are two main reasons:

1) MUCH of the debt will never be repaid no matter what. Too many graduates just will never have the earnings to do it. That is just reality, whether you personally agree with their choices or not. We can either wait for the bubble to burst and have a repeat of 2007, when everyone realizes the debt is worthless and banks take huge hits, OR we can proactively and responsibly handle the situation.

2) So many young people unable to buy houses or take a more active role in the economy is holding ALL of us back. Millennial house purchases in particular should be booming. Our population is growing too slowly because no one can afford to have kids. That means the next generation will also be a smaller tax base. This is unsustainable and it's in all your own interests change things.

The rate of inflation for college tuition has been more than twice the rate of all other inflation over the last 50 years. Millennials are no more responsible for this situation than boomers are for the for the unsustainable rise in healthcare prices. Both situations need government action

[quote]Something doesnt add up here. If 300 is close to 20% of your monthly income, you are making less than 10 dollars an hour. That's less than minimum wage in most places and you say you have a 401K and a regular car payment?

1500 is presumably his take home income after taxes and 401k payments. That means a salary of around 24k or about 11.50/hr.

[quote]This can't be true because the amount is capped to 10% of your monthly income.

This is only true for federal education loans. Private creditors can take up to 25% of your take home pay.

At my last job, my coworkers gave me hell for being thrifty. I drove an older (still dependable) car, shopped at discount and thrift stores and didn't upgrade my tech very often, all of which a lot of them saw as weird or stupid. They would spend, spend, spend, had to have the best of everything and then complain about being cash poor and heavily in debt. Well, duh!

Most people are dumbasses about money and finances and the loan companies know that.

Yes r211, that's why they are called predatory. It's not a compliment.

r211 student loan debt is a little different though. Its the result of well intentioned generation of parents who wanted their children to go to college, universities spending out of control, and the government loaning money to anyone.

I was in college ten years ago during the Recession. If it weren't for student loans, of course I would've been homeless. It was a horrible time for everyone. I looked for part time work for most of 2008 and 2009, and there was none. I took out most of my loans during that time, and every 4 months when I got my refund I budgeted it down to the cents, and still barely had enough to eat. I get that most people were broke in college, but in America we spend thousands on school, just to be broke. Whenever that happens there is major flaw in the system, and it will eventually crash.

When the bubble bursts its going to be huge blow to young people. I just hope unlike during the Recession there are jobs so they can enter the workforce and still make a living.

When the bubble bursts it will hurt everyone. Not just young people. When the mortgage bubble pooped it sent the whole economy into recession

Are you willing to trade your debt for your dignity?

[quote]Most federal student loan debt should be forgiven

Erasing those assets would be a great way to cause a complete collapse of the economy, if that’s the intent.

This student debt bubble bursting is the next recession, no doubt about it. It is just a manageable at this point, education costs have skyrocketed over the last 20 years and there is no rhyme or reason for it. I went to school in the late 90s at a state school And it cost me less than 50 K. I just cannot imagine this being true today. I can understand STEM careers and Fields Being more expensive but who in their right mind wants to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for a liberal arts education?

R216, Combination of gradual erasing with government paying some of it out right. We already have a similar system for some mortgages

[quote]This student debt bubble bursting is the next recession, no doubt about it.

And just as with the housing crisis, numerous voices are pleading with the government to do something to avert the crisis -- but instead, our "leaders" are burying their heads in the sand so their corporate overlords can squeeze out all the short-term profit they can before the taxpayer is forced to step in and clean up the disaster they made.

For those who know, shag would happen if the bubble bursts? How would it affect those with heavy student loan debt?

R220 Wouldn't affect the debt holders in any particular way. It will affect whoever owns the debt, which is mostly banks. They have assets on their books that will suddenly lose half their value or more all at once. They will have nothing to cover those losses.

Would they the US write off the student loan debt?

Not as long as millennials vote democrat and GOP controls the congress R222

Banks don't own most of the student loan debt anymore, R221. The US government does. Banks used to own something like 70% but the bank-based lending ended early in the Obama administration in favor of the direct loan program. Banks still make student loans when students max out federal loans but now the government owns 80-90%. So I would think erasing outstanding debt is even less likely.

R224 Banks aren't writing the loans (like directly fronting the money) but they still own most of it. Most of those loans are bundled into packages banks have bought

[quot] R149: Is bankruptcy a good idea for student debt of 175K and higher?

IIRC, student loan debt is one of the few things that can’t be discharged in bankruptcy. However...

Check out R7. It has the bonus of being easier, I think, and cheaper than bankruptcy.

Ask nicely, OP. You’d be surprised how that works.

Op, I hope everything works out for you. I know what it’s like being in debt, and I was able to get out of it by some miracle. You can do it!

Yes, if OP has federal student loans (it doesn't work for private loans), he can do the public sector 10 year forgiveness program.

I assume your friend works in the public sector r7?

It has taken me a few days to absorb all this and to post but here it goes...

OP, I'm pretty much in the same boat as you.

I am currently over $232K in student loan debt and for many years had my wages garnished (25%) and my tax returns intercepted (roughly $1500/year).

About 18 months ago I got determined to fix all this and my abysmal 410 credit score.

I stopped ignoring the phone calls and started communicating with all these lenders. I had lenders I didn't even know I had. They started me is a rehab program. One charged me only $5.00/month while another charged me $10.00 while still garnishing my wages. After I was done then I was able to consolidate and have Navient pay them off. That was about $180K. I then found out I still had a loan through my undergrad school and the US Dept. of Education who claimed I could not rehab through them because I had already done it once. I started sending them $20/month to keep them from garnishing my wages but they still would take my tax return.

Nelnet then popped upo and I owed them. So I went to consolidate them through Navient just to get one big loan as best as possible. Well guess what... US Dept. of Edu was listed under the loans I could now consolidate. I clicked on the box and prayed it would go through. And sure enough, it did! Now all my loans are consolidated, no wage garnishment and I will finally get a tax return again next year.

Now this is where your posting is confusing me. I'm on the PAYE program and pay $82.44 and I make about $38K/year.

Fixing my student loans has really helped my credit score/finances, too. I've raised my score from 410 to 720. I had bought a used car back in 2016 and was paying almost 16% in interest. I went to my credit union on Friday and refinanced for 48 months (the remaining life of the loan I had initially taken out) and now my interest rate is 4.24%. Saving me almost $60/month and more money in my pocket.

I have no credit card debt. Instead of using my debit card like I had for years, I now charge on my cards and pay them off monthly. That really helped raise my score, too. I'm currently looking for a commnunity service based job (teaching) so I can charge them off in 10 years but i understand after 25 years, the PAYE option does the same.

In any event, talk to these people. I have cried many times over the phone and yes, I did consider suiced at least once. They will work with you. Just dont ignore them like I did. They also can see when you are making a genuine effort to committ to paying something and that will make them even nicer and easier to work with.

That's awesome, R230. May I ask how come your initial wage garnishment was 25%? Private loans?

[quote] R229: Yes, if OP has federal student loans (it doesn't work for private loans), he can do the public sector 10 year forgiveness program...I assume your friend works in the public sector [R7]?

No, not public sector. Its been ten years, so he is free! Time flies by!

Education Secretary Betsy DeVos is expected to take new steps as early as this week toward reversing Obama-era protections for students in debt to for-profit schools, including those that go out of business. It’s the latest in a broader effort by DeVos to recast the mission of her department and to relax safeguards intended to protect economically vulnerable students.

DeVos is also expected to rewrite rules requiring for-profit schools to equip students with minimal employment skills to qualify for federal aid.

If you want to talk about predatory, for profit schools are absolutely predatory.

I hope none of the people here talking about their massive debt is due to getting swindled by these for-profit "universities"

[quote]Fifty-two percent of the students who attended for-profit schools defaulted on their loan. That's compared to 17% for those who attended a four-year public institution and 26% at community college.

R119 We don't like you British people!

We didn't like you in 1776 and we don't like you now.

I bet the OP is still driving around in his flash car going to fancy restaurants and picking up men and avoiding his college text-books.

You're probably correct, R236.

[quote]I don't understand people who borrow money with no understanding of what it will take to pay it back.

These are 18 year olds, idiot. Why do you assume that they would have a full understanding of these issues? They're sold a story and they buy into it.

[quote]I hope none of the people here talking about their massive debt is due to getting swindled by these for-profit "universities"

It happened to a friend of mine, who totally bought into a "guarantee" that he'd get work when he graduated. Deceptive marketing, a worthless degree, and $40k in debt. At that, he's one of the lucky ones, since that could easily have been double or triple that. But he's going to be paying that debt back for 20 years or more.

I fell badly for folks crushed by student debt. Working to better themselves and out country with debt that may linger for years. It wasn’t like that in my day. You worked a part time job and you were able afford a degree.

Makes me feel sad for this generation.

Mark and Ethan don't have student debt.

They started up a company selling T-shirts and their positivity.

Only certain kinds of loans qualify for Public Service Loan Forgiveness. Private loans do not. Loans that have been previously consolidated do not. Loans not serviced by Fed Loan Servicing do not. It's a hideously complicated program. Do your homework and keep track of everything. PSLF (and student loan repayment in general) is almost as bad as dealing with health insurance companies. Forcing people to debt finance their education is despicable. We are a nation of debt slaves.

[quote] R144: How the fucking hell is it even legal to ¨sell¨ other people's debts???

Why not? It’s a commodity. It’s capitalism! You live in a society where the very currency can be bought and sold!

[quote] R161: Is bankruptcy a good idea for extreme student debt?

Read the thread from top to bottom, Cupcake. There’s lots of commentary about this.

Btw, for OP and the other poster who wanted to know how to get into government employment:

There's basically two options (and I think you should pursue them both simultaneously).

One is to answer a flyer for a job (and a helpful poster linked to the California Civil Service website as an example) - check your city and state jobs portals for flyers.

The other is to take a civil service test and be called off an eligible list. This latter option is much more time consuming and it won't help anyone right away, but it's something you need to include in your job search strategy. I think you should check the civil service website of your state and municipality for upcoming exams and take as many tests as you qualify for and are of interest to you.

Even after you find a civil service job you should continue to check the exams lists at the beginning of each fiscal year (usually July 1) and sign up for exams that make sense based on your career track and salary needs.

I tried to respond to this question much sooner but I got a message I couldn't post.

Good luck.

Student loans are the modern day debtors prison.

and duplicating this here, as well:

I know the stress and depression that goes with heavy debt. I used to fantasize about suicide as a 'safety valve' when I was $30,000 in credit card debt.

One day I deposited some credit card checks (they were always sending me some) into my checking account, went to a lawyer and wrote her a check to file for Chapter 7 for me.

Best thing I ever did. That was over 10 years ago, as if it never happened.

R247 mentioned credit card checks and reminded me. Between 2005 and 2011, I borrowed a total of $480,000 on my credit cards using these checks. They usually came with some teaser rate, such as 0% interest for 6 or 9 months. I invested the money in the stock market and kept rolling one 6 or 9-month loan into another, and so forth. I figure I made at least $10,000 after taxes, but it might have been as much as $50,000, maybe more. Hard to calculate exactly.

They stopped offering these fee-free, low or no-interest short term loans after the crash.

Well I got a letter today from a collection agency (Todd, Bremer & Lawson) saying my undergard Fed Perkins Loan has gone to them for collection. $2748.48

I am pretty sure I included this on my recent consolidation. Why are they sending me this now? May marked 20 years since I graduated.

What are my options?

R249, if you question it, don’t assume they know what they are doing. They could simply be dead wrong for any number of reasons. My hunch is, they are so accustomed to people trying to get out of paying what they really do owe, that they won’t even listen to you if you call , but who knows.

R249, you should determine for sure, whether this loan was included in the consolidation. If so, tell them. But from your post @ R230, you’re the expert! You seem to know what you have to do. Good luck! Sorry to hear you have to deal with this a little longer!

This is what happens when you don't voluntarily pay down your student loan det and just pay the bare minimum for your whole life so, you know, you can go on vacation.

The debt is manageable you just have to work for it.

It's the same as a credit card.

The debt is manageable if you stay employed and you took out a reasonable amount r252.

Those people who took on massive of debt burdens or go through long periods of unemployment/underemployment, it is not so manageable for them.

R 249, send a letter (certified) requesting proof that the debt is yours. Over time, uncollected debts are sold downmarket to other collection agencies until they end up at the lowest bottom feeders. These places often do not have the supporting paperwork identifying the debt as yours, it gets lost in the shuffle over time.

There are templates for such letters online, I’m linking an example. I know that this works for unsecured debt, I don’t know about student loans, but it’s worth a try.

Also consider visiting creditboards. It is a wealth of information and helped me through a tough time.

Just got off the phone with Navient and sure enough that Perkins loan was included in my consolidation last month.

Navient is sending me a loan summary in the mail so I'll call these sharks at the collection agency and tell them I'll be sending a copy their way.

Well I guess I shouldn't have called them sharks.

The woman handling my account was actually very nice and explained that while the consolidation went through, my school might not have received the funds yet. She said she would call them and to go ahead and include a copy of the loan summary when I receive it from Navient.

My biggest lesson from getting my debts/finances in order has definitely been to always present myself as kind and appreciative of any help they can provide me. Like the old saying, "you catch more flies with honey than vinegar." A few "Yes, ma'ams" and "thank yous" goes a really long way in getting help and "options" to better ease re-payments.

I partly broke up with a former partner because I didn't want to be saddled with helping pay off 160k of student debt. It genuinely terrified me.

God, reading this thread is so depressing - and maddening. Amazing how government has let capitalism ruin people. And I honestly don’t blame the individuals.

I worked for a for-profit college briefly and was appalled at the scam game they were running. It is sooo symbolic that Trump did it too with Trump Univeristy. It was - and IS - a complete racket. For profit college - aka, some sociopathic person or hedge fund - creates a marketing program WHOLLY DEPENDENT on the easily available student loans. Basically they exist to have 18-25 year old poorly educated kids sign paperwork that gives them authority to take $200,000 from the government that the student has to repay. That these schools are alllowed to continue is a crime and Top 3 examples of how government is now run by the capitalists to take advantage of the poor, uneducated and helpless. Unfortunately, it’s hard to explain the complex shenanigans to uneducated people - and as a result they vote for Trump who was one of the people who robbed them. I am truly becoming hopeless about this country.

R98 has a tremendous idea.

Or, OP could visit Europe and arrange for a sham marriage to escape this insanity. Plenty of International organizations and NGOs working in English and always looking for qualified individuals.

r9, my loan is with navient

R240 And they also have upper middle class parents that paid for their college education.

They've never had to work a real job, have had everything handed to them because they're attractive and white.

BTW that tattoo that Mark got on his forearm is HIDEOUS!

I'm in same boat, close to $200k in student loans and until recently was terrified they'd go after my Social Security when I'm able to collect it (another 20 years from now). But I just learned that they can't garnish or withhold Social Security, so if I can just pay the absolute minimum per month until I retire, screw the balance.

Stop spending so much money.

Manageable.

Trump, Trump, Trump. What does he have to do with your student debt? What exactly were you earning pre-2008 and why weren't you paying off your debts then? If you were buying luxuries or taking nice holidays when in big debt (you'd need to be for a $300 dollar monthly now), then you wasted that education.

You should not have to pay your student loan amount if you aren't working in the field you studied.

School failed. No refund. That is how Germany does it, I heard.

Americans have much harder lives than any other first world country I can think of. Even the average life expectancy has decreased . No wonder, I guess, when there are so many factors beating the majority down

R266 You need to stop thinking about 'America and having 'much harder lives than any other first world country'.

That kind of 'first-world-ism' thinking went out with the Cold War.

We are now all globalised. China is the most powerful nation on the planet. Europeans are paying loads of money to Africans to over-populate so they start to invade Europe. And we are in big debt to China.

China is not the most powerful nation on the planet. I don’t know what is wrong with people.

China is the sleeping-tiger and the most powerful nation on the planet. They are waiting for the best time to strike.

Powerful, how, r269? On what are you basing that ridiculous claim?

I know someone who is having a a small part of his social security garnished due to student loan debt.

Hillary had student loan debt on her top ten agenda action list, but here we are with the Fuhrer...

Yes r271. Any federal debt, like federal student loans, can garnish your social security r271. Private loans cannot.

The evils of the 2008 bailouts can not be overstated. A massive, much-needed purgative was withheld and we are a an unhealthy and unbalanced country for it.