The attack on gay men continues

[quote]"When someone is referred to as a 'cisgender lesbian' or 'cis gay man' by a transgender person, it is often in a negative way," Tannehill posits. "The addition of 'cis' or 'cisgender' is used to imply a certain level of contempt and a desire that they leave discussions on transgender issues. It also implies that they don't, can't, or won't ever understand transgender issues."

How about they develop their own show?

Well, since when was that ever supposed to be representation of the entire LBG community? The mistake she's making is that she's under the undying belief that gay men are obligated to support the entire community while the rest of the community does not need to support gay men.

Five gay men are doing nothing more than representing five gay men. If you think that a show starring other part of the alphabet soup community would be successful, then develop one, pitch it, and let the chips fall where they may.

The fact that the Advocate would print such a ridiculous piece puts them into the category of HRC, GLAAD, and other groups that used to support gay people and don't really seem to know who the real enemy is.

The Trump administration is plotting the destruction of our democracy and this is your big concern?

[quote]The Trump administration is plotting the destruction of our democracy and this is your big concern?

And exactly, what do you think that plot entails?

The fragmentation of traditional coalitions and fanning of internecine conflict serves that purpose. The fact that we're doing it to ourselves is merely a laughing point for cheeto's allies and base.

[quote]So the takeaway is: Please write and produce more diverse LGBTQ+ content for representation

You mean like "Pose" which has a cast of several trans characters played by real trans actors?

The article is silly.

It would be nice if they could stop using cis as a slur too.

No one reads Advocate anymore. No one gives a shit.

[quote]It would be nice if they could stop using cis as a slur too.

It would be nice if they could stop using "cis" - full stop.

[quote]The fact that the Advocate would print such a ridiculous piece puts them into the category of HRC, GLAAD, and other groups that used to support gay people and don't really seem to know who the real enemy is.

A category it has been a proud member of for years now.

[quote] The Trump administration is plotting the destruction of our democracy and this is your big concern?

The Trump admin is plotting and you're getting a mani-pedi this weekend? Or calling up customer service to complain about errors in your monthly phone bill? Or voicing concern over smn parking in your pre-paid parking space? Or complaining to a waiter that he overcharged you? Shame on you, R4! Shame!

[quote] The fragmentation of traditional coalitions and fanning of internecine conflict serves that purpose. The fact that we're doing it to ourselves is merely a laughing point for cheeto's allies and base.

Oh, stop. The traditional LGB coalition is not fragmented. We simply don't want the [italic]arriviste[/italic] T and whatever the heck "Q+" means.

OK, first of all, r11, no.

Secondly, the OP is just fucking obsessed with the trans movement and this thread is just today's screeching nonsense. Every day from this OP there is another thread on how the trans-agenda is erasing gay people. But the much bigger and only actual (instead of imaginary) threat to the gay community is the Trump administration. This anti-trans obsession is a distraction from the real threat.

So you're in favor of their using "cis" as a slur, r13. Okay. Thank you.

I don't fucking care about "cis" or who uses the term. I care about my marriage, my job, my healthcare.

I'll bet the writer was pissed that she couldn't say "five cis WHITE gay guys".

R13 / R15, many DLers are not even US citizens. Many of us have very serious problems with the T in our countries (without Trump). So please don't make it just about Trump.

These threads are valid concerns for others. No need to denigrate everyone, just because you "don't fucking care". If that's your position in life, then no one "fucking cares" what you think either.

[quote] Many of us have very serious problems with the T in our countries (without Trump).

No, you really don't.

R18 = pro-Trans troll. F&F.

Yes, we do. Don't tell people from other countries what to think. You're acting like Trump by the way, with your tantrum "if it doesn't concern ME personally, I don't care!". He must be your idol. Enjoy that thought.

[quote] You're acting like Trump by the way, with your tantrum "if it doesn't concern ME personally, I don't care!". He must be your idol.

That is some amazing Orwellian logic there. I say Trump is the actual enemy you should be focusing on, so that means he is my idol.

Fine. We'll get it renamed GAY EYE for the straight guy and people can continue to enjoy the show and the wretched TQQs can crowd-fund their own fucking show called Trans and Queer and Non Binary and Gender Expansive Eyes on Cis Privileged Fucks.

I'd much rather it be called GAY EYE.

Standards for looks have gone WAY down.

"Queer Eye" = can't see what I really look like in a mirror because my eye is a little queer after an accident involving a microscope.

I demand representation of trans catkin of color!

I don't like the term cis. Two reasons it sounds too much like sissy, a word that haunted me growing up. I know other gay men who have the same reaction. More importantly one of the cornerstones of diversity is to let people self identify. Honestly I don't anyone who picked cis to self identify.

The author admits she likes the show. I don't even see where she wants the show to change. However she would like to see more visibility for for other members of the LGBTQ community in main stream media. Especially publication aimed at youth. She isn't asking for any current media to be changed. She just wants more and variety. R2 that is the point of her article.

R20 - I don't see the Orwellian logic. Claiming Trump is your idol doesn't imply you like his policies. it may mean you like the way he uses Twitter to throw tantrums.

I don't see the problem.

R20, you seem to suffer from memory loss. This is what you said:

[quote] [bold]the only actual (instead of imaginary) threat to the gay community is the Trump administration.[/bold]

"The ONLY threat"? Wow. How narrow-minded can you be? DL is an international forum.

Your message was: 'oh, look, people - Trump! Stop talking about anything else that concerns you, internationally or regionally! As if, who cares what else is going on in the international LGB community IN THE WORLD, right?

What you're doing is Gaslighting all other issues. As if the world shouldn't talk about the T pushing through controversial legislation and self-serving TV campaigns on the sly while you're busy with Trump.

If you want to talk about Trump - there are a GAZILLION threads about him every day. Far, far more than about the T. But bizarrely that's not enough for you. You go on unrelated threads like this one and start lecturing people here on what we should or should not discuss. Unbelievable.

I have no problem with more LGBT friendly entertainment. I would support a QUEER or LGBT TV channel.

r5 nailed it

The problem with intersectionality is that it only works if everyone is pretty much equally dispossessed.

r29. not necessarily. Every human being with common sense knows it makes perfect sense to have alliances who can help you when you need their help and help them when they need help. Help and support doesn't mean you have to be on equal footing. It means you help each other based on the belief that when being united you are stronger.

R30, ever heard of “group think”...?

Intersectionality is now working out for homos.

In fact, it’s opprssing is.

Just my “cis” cents. I know it’s of no value to you.

^ *not working out

Meanwhile, a few days ago, gay women were physically attacked at a San Francisco Dyke March by, you guessed it, Cocks in Frocks.

DL fave, the barbed-wire baseball bat carrying, TERF-attacking DeGenderettes were out in force, although this time they left their bats at home and only carried signs saying lesbian-erasing slogans "We stand with women AND cis women" How gracious of them.

And yet the organizers of the ironically named DYKE MARCH sided with the male dykes.

"AMY DEPOY is a senior at Yale University and an intern for Ms. Magazine."

So, they're using STUDENTS? You can do better, Advocate.

I’m sick of terms like “cis” and “non-binary” these ‘tards spout off about.

^^^^oh and “intersectional”. Tiresome SJW speak.

Non-binaries now have the right to enter female spaces in California (by a legislative vote) and Oregon (by a judge's decision).

So now a male, dressed as a male, with a male penis, can enter a locker room where little girls are undressing if he feels female that day and those little girls and their parents can't do one damn thing about it.

And while you do everything you can to throw trans-people under the bus, the Supreme Court is now going to run over gay men like a Mack truck. Congratulations.

R38, What gain do gay men get with allying with the Trans, who make up a minuscule part of the population and are statistically way more likely to be mentally ill, suicidal and or autistic than the general population?

Trans "women" are physically attacking gay women at DYKE marches.

Trans "girls" are now taking athletic scholarships away from girls.

Women make up more than 50% of the US population. If you don't think that once they realize how the LGBT has become the lgbT and their rights have been taken away by the Trans agenda, women will choose themselves and their girls over gay men or Trans "women" you're even more crazy than the Trans you live to champion.

Yep, focus on those terrible things the trans have done. Don't notice at all that you are about to lose all human rights. Marriage, work, property...all gone.

[quote]Tiresome SJW speak.

Or troll pretending to be SJW.

[quote] Intersectionality is now working out for homos.

[quote] In fact, it’s opprssing is.

[quote] Just my “cis” cents. I know it’s of no value to you.

I am sure it has great value to those who can make sense of it. And yes, to me your comment doesn't make any sense.

Find me five trans people who are stylish, healthy, attractive, nice, hardworking and likeable. Then we'll talk.

The only way I can defend this article is that "queer" is now used as an umbrella term for all kinds of identities, not just gay. So that's my guess as to why some are bitching. If queer now means: gay, bi, pansexual, demisexual, gender non-conforming, etc.. I can see why some would want more than five gays represented on the show.

This is a reboot, the original had only gays, let's keep it that way. You'll never make everyone happy, by trying to make everyone happy.

Wow, what a shocker: "Group think" is a bad word for the "Divide & Conquer" trolls.

R40, Most women have lived without those rights since the beginning of time. Women had a few decades of something approaching semi-equal rights, and then the Trans came in like a tsunami and redefined the word female to mean anything that men wanted it to mean, so why the fuck should women care what happens to anyone who doesn't care about them?

If gay men want allies, then I would suggest that they chose women over mentally-ill men who think that putting on a dress and lipstick can change their genes and lived experiences.

Definition of groupthink: a pattern of thought characterized by self-deception, forced manufacture of consent, and conformity to group values and ethics

Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon whereby pressure within a group to agree results in failures to think critically about an issue, situation or decision.

....akin to a "herd mentality."

Who the fuck gave these assholes the authority to invent the terms "cis" and "non-binary" and then go around telling everyone else how to speak to them? Fuck you, you mentally ill asshats.

R47: They were't invented, it comes from Trans-Jordan and Cis-Jordan. It's Latin, so transgender and cisgender. It's actually a valid reference point. You should learn what you're talking about before posting in future....

"The prefix trans- is Latin and means "across" or beyond, and so "Transjordan" refers to the land on the other side of the Jordan River. The equivalent term for the west side is the Cisjordan – literally, "on this side of the [River] Jordan"."

Wow, another chance for Milo to create another thread for DL......how nice

[quote]They were't invented, it comes from Trans-Jordan and Cis-Jordan

Well, I am not a Jordan, jackass.

R49 is still deciding which one of the 72 FaceBook gender options he is today.

[quote]They were't invented, it comes from Trans-Jordan and Cis-Jordan. It's Latin, so transgender and cisgender. It's actually a valid reference point. You should learn what you're talking about before posting in future.... "The prefix trans- is Latin and means "across" or beyond, and so "Transjordan" refers to the land on the other side of the Jordan River. The equivalent term for the west side is the Cisjordan – literally, "on this side of the [River] Jordan"."

Yeah. [italic]Perfectly[/italic] analogous with homosexuality.

FFS! Like others on this thread have said: Get your own show. QE has no responsibility to the "rest" of the LGBTQ...population. I'm a queer woman and I couldn't care less whether or not QE represents me and my identity. It's a TV show!!

You - SJWs - are not going to get equal representation of every identity in every show, book, whatever. *You* are not going to be reflected everywhere.

Oh! and btw - words change meaning over time and depend on context. Asking for black coffee does not make you racist and using the word chief in a corporation is not offensive to indigenous people. Read a book.

What does it mean to be a "queer woman" R53?

The people supporting the homophobia & sexism of the Trans push are either T or brain-dead

Yes, they could get rid of gay marriage, but even before that is the transing of minors happening RIGHT NOW.

Combine them both: no gay rights protection. And young gay people being transed. Iran. How can be blind to one big part of the problem, that is actually happening now? Oh, and you are not allowed to talk about it because T has taken over gay organizations, and invaded political organizations.

[quote] And while you do everything you can to throw trans-people under the bus, the Supreme Court is now going to run over gay men like a Mack truck. Congratulations.

[quote] Yep, focus on those terrible things the trans have done. Don't notice at all that you are about to lose all human rights. Marriage, work, property...all gone.

Pro-Trans troll at R38 / R40 / etc. keeps trying to deflect, obfuscate, and point fingers at others - basically anything to avoid public scrutiny of the Trans' actions: 'Never ever examine what the T are doing – focus on smtgh else, anything else!'. I wonder what this troll’s next excuse will be when the Dems get into power: 'Please, still don’t focus on the Trans! Focus on that volcano eruption in Hawaii! Or on that plastic in the oceans! Never focus on the Trans!'.

I love xer scaremongering and pass-the-blame game too: 'You “threw Trans-people under the bus” (lol, what?) – that’s why you got Trump and the current US SC! If only you had supported the crazy Trans in everything, you wouldn’t have gotten Trump! It’s all your fault, “congratulations”, "cis" people!'

But xe forgets to mention that a lot of the controversial legislation that the Trans are trying to push through makes it much harder for Dems to get swing voters onboard and alienates them further. So, sorry, pro-Trans troll – it’s easier for the LGB to distance itself from the crazy Ts than to get swing voters to support your increasingly bizarre and outrageous legislation (like allowing puberty blockers for minors).

Btw, pro-Trans troll, you’re forgetting that normal, intelligent people can multi-task and successfully focus on a few things at once. People can protest both what Trump and the Trans are doing. Though it seems your brain is like a one-way road, you don’t understand the concept of multi-tasking.

[quote]And while you do everything you can to throw trans-people under the bus

The trans threw gay men, lesbians, and kids under the bus.

I object to the use of "cis" without for three reasons:

1. As a gay man, I've spent my entire life being told that being gay made me not a man or less of a man. Appending any qualifier to "man" when addressing or describing me continues to promote the idea that my being a man requires a qualifier. I am a man - full stop.

2. It is hypocritical for others to apply labels on other people without consent at the same time they scream about mislabeling or misgendering or not wanting to be labeled themselves.

3. "cis" has clearly taken on a pejorative meaning, even if the original intent did not.

It’s a shitty show. I t7ned out after 15 minutes. Too over the top gay for me.

R54, Google much?

R48 Oh fuck right off.

R53 You mean you are a lesbian woman?

r58 is spot on. Wonderfully put.

And fuck Ryan Murphy with the lies he's perpetrating with POSE. The real drag ball persons were gay men in drag, not modern trans women.

R64 HA exactly, so fucking annoying

Ryan Murphy gave us the 200 trans choir on Glee.

I just dont watch it. And that picture is so unflattering for everyone. But mostly, I feel bad for the fashion fan that was used for this shoot.

R58 wins

OK, I took the bait and googled "queer women definition"

And, umm, like everything Alphabet Soup-related there doesn't appear to be a set definition of queer (or, for that matter, woman when combined with queer), it's all nebulous self-identification, so again, R53, "What does it mean to be a queer woman?"

"Queer woman" is a definition so steeped in vagueness, it fails to define anything.

Who would watch a lesbian fashion and style show? And transgendered women? Two looks, high school librarian or hooker.

"Queer woman" means in school but is not smart.

"You're a queer one , Julie Jordan"

Fuck the NYT - constantly pushing T, along with HuffPo but accidentally revealed what they truly think of homosexual men

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

"They were't invented, it comes from Trans-Jordan and Cis-Jordan. It's Latin..."

Oh, honey, the only thing your everyday tranny know from "Latin" is cha cha heels.

I don't like the term, "Cis" especially since a lot of Trans people use it as a slur against people who are not-trans, and it has the opposite effect when someone who is not Trans gets called Cis, or the whole "Die cis scum" BS that trans people say, it has the opposite effect and just makes me laugh. What's wrong with man or woman? Or calling someone a drag queen if that's what they are?

You also have people who self identify as queer and then have no idea what it means, and they want everyone that's gay/lesbian, and bisexual to call ourselves queer, but if you ask 100 people what queer means to them you'll get 1,000 different answers. I have also met people who are in academia and completely heterosexual, not trans at all, and they call themselves queer.

When they try to insult me with the TERF thing, I just want to laugh. It's a made-up word. How could it possibly hurt anyone?

Someone used to have the Twitter handle TERFy McTERF which I thought was funny. I tried to find it but I couldn't. Hope the person wasn't banned.

Yes, R77. "Queer" is an insult as well as a word that can mean absolutely nothing. They did that with "feminist," - too. That can now mean anti-feminist, as well as man who dresses up as a "woman" and hates women.

Another meaningless word: "gender" which means social stereotypes in dress and behavior for men/women and biological sex. Two completely different things that contradict. There are probably additional made-up meanings.

Words matter because they are used against people and in propaganda. A lot is to confuse and destroy the power of ideas.

The whole point of the show is about the fashion sense of gay men and the lack thereof of straight ones, isn't it? How would different demographics even fit into that model? Lesbian eye for the gay guy? Straight eye for the gay guy? God forbid...

Which is more stupid, the show, or critiquing a stupid show?

It's hard to wrap my mind around the pettiness behind that stupid article. If the most influential LGBT show had thousands of trans people, lesbians or bi women, but hardly any gay man, as is true of many popular shows and movies past and present, would the Advocate publish an article by a gay man bitching about it?

No one has said that a single show represents the entire "LGBTQ+ community" -- no one but Amy, that is. In fact, any pretension to reflect the entire "community" in a single show or movie would be quixotic, and I doubt that the creators of Queer Eye ever thought of their product in that way.

I'm sorry about all the LGBT books that did not center on gay girls. But what can be done about it? Maybe lesbians should write more books? I can't think of any other solution, as it doesn't seem that lesbians are being prevented from publishing, much less by gay men.

Before the author thinks of whining about representation in a show that includes not only a gay Black man, but also a gay Muslim--as if these groups were getting too much exposure and TV was lacking in portrayals of female couples making out in every other show--maybe she should get herself acquainted with some facts on homophobia. From hate crime stats released by the government, to experiments about market discrimination, to self-report surveys on the lived experience of LGBT people -- all will enlighten her to the fact that gay men are much more likely victims of homophobia (specially violent homophobia) than lesbians and therefore NEED all representarion they can get. If you're in doubt about that, check out what is going in Chechnya and who are the ones being put in concentration camps in their so-called "LGBTQ+ crackdown".

If lesbians want more representation, they should try to get it without chipping away at gay men's.