Rosemary Kennedy

[quote]I know the family has always pretended that she was mentally retarded, but I never believed that.

The family acknowleged the truth of her botched lobotmy long ago, dear. No one has “believed” , or even claimed, she was mentally retarded for several decades. But bully for you for “never believing” a lie that was put to rest two generations ago.

But, r1, OP presents a good question. What was Rosemary's problem that she pissed Joe off enough to order a lobotomy when Rose was away? Was it just that she was slower than the fast paced Kennedys? Did she have a learning disability? Or was she just not sharp enough to stay out of Joe's way? I personally wouldn't put it past him to have diddled with her and she wasn't able to handle it. Kennedys had no morals.

R1= Jean Kennedy Smith

But I think it is safe to say that her parents basically wrote her off after they had her institutionalized. Eunice seems to be the one who kept in contact.

Eunice was the one who visited Rosemary the most, and her relationship with Rosemary inspired her interest in working with the developmentally delayed and the Special Olympics.

As for Rosemary, there are various stories, most featuring an IQ that was a bit below normal, which horrified her parents because they were seriously into breeding high-quality children. It's not clear whether Rosemary as a young woman was mentally ill or just rebellious, but what is pretty clear is that her parents didn't have any idea what a lobotomy would do to her. In 1941 lobotomy was being talked up as cutting-edge medicine, the cure for all sorts of mental illnesses and behavioral problems, and the medical establishment was NOT admitting it turned people into incontinent zombies. Still, incontinent zombie it was.

[quote]Eunice seems to be the one who kept in contact.

She would. They were on the same mental level.

Another thing that horrified her parents was that their “defective” daughter (who at best probably had a learning disability and could have used some counseling about controlling her emotions) was maturing into a beautiful and voluptuous young woman and attracting male attention. An out-of-wedlock pregnancy would have scandalized the family and dashed any hopes of a political dynasty, so old Joe scheduled the lobotomy for her. Joseph Kennedy was a really horrible person.

She was a tramp and would fuck anyone. Fine for the male children. Plus she loved anal.

[quote]In 1941 lobotomy was being talked up as cutting-edge medicine, the cure for all sorts of mental illnesses and behavioral problems, and the medical establishment was NOT admitting it turned people into incontinent zombies.

Sounds a lot like the "gender reassignment" surgeries going on today.

[quote]Joseph Kennedy was a really horrible person.

He learned it when he was Ambassador to the UK.

From wikipedia:

[quote]"In response to her condition, Rosemary's parents separated her from her family. Rose Kennedy did not visit her for twenty years. Joseph P. Kennedy, Sr. did not visit his daughter at the institution. While her older brother John was campaigning for re-election for the Senate in 1958, the Kennedy family explained away her absence by claiming she was reclusive. At one point, a rumor circulated that Rosemary was too busy working as a teacher for disabled children to make public appearances. The Kennedy family did not publicly explain her absence until 1961, after John had been elected President. The Kennedys did not reveal that she was institutionalized because of a failed lobotomy but instead said that she was deemed "mentally retarded."

I always knew there was something I liked about Joe Kennedy!

I have read a lot about Rosemary, some authors have also done excellent seminars on her, you can find them on YouTube if interested. Here's a summary of what is believed to have happened to Rosemary:

Rosemary was born at her parents' home. A midwife was present when her mother was in labor, apparently the unwritten rule at that time was for the midwife to keep the baby inside until the doctor arrived so that he could collect his delivery fees. It was 1918 when Rosemary was born, there was a flu pandemic and the doctor was overwhelmed with patients, it is believed that Rosemary was kept inside for too long which deprived her of oxygen, resulting in her being mentally challenged.

The Kennedys noticed that there was something off about Rosemary when she was a toddler. Through her grade school years, they tried everything to "cure her". Joe made sure that the entire family did everything in their power to shelter and protect her, and most importantly, hide her handicap from the rest of the world. For example, once she hit puberty, she would accompany the family to different functions, her brothers and their close friends would fill up Rosemary's dance cards, she was never allowed to socialize with males other than her brothers and other trusted family/friends.

Finally the Kennedys realized that there was no "fixing" Rosemary. They sent her away to exclusive private schools. Within days, the staff would notice that there was something wrong and that Rosemary functioned at about the mental capacity of a 4th grader. They did their best to work with her but would eventually give up and send her back home. She would then be sent to yet another unwitting school, rinse and repeat over and over. Rosemary would write heartbreaking letters to her father and mother, begging them to tell her what she did wrong, why she was being sent away.

As she got in to her late teens/early 20's, the Kennedys really did not want her around at all to tarnish their reputation. They came up with the idea to send Rosemary to camps where she would be a camp counselor. The camp staff of course realized that Rosemary needed more help than the kids she was supposed to be counseling. Though the camps really did not want her, the Kennedys paid well so they tried to deal with the situation as best as they could. It was around this time that Rosemary started sneaking out and meeting boys in the area. She was caught with several young men during this time. Joe was notified what was going on.

The Kennedys were strict Catholics. "Fixing" Rosemary with a tubal ligation to prevent pregnacy was not an option. The Kennedys were terrified that Rosemary's promiscuity would become known to the world and Joe was determined to stop it. So, the lobotomy.

There was no accident with the lobotomy. It is ludicrous to think that a lobotomy would have fixed her mentally challenged state, no doctor at that time really believed that. The lobotomy was performed on Rosemary to incapacitate her and make it impossible for her to continue with her promiscuity and embarrass the family. She was immediately sent to a home for invalids several states away and that is where she lived out the rest of her sad life.

R13, I’ve always thought the mental handicap story was pure horse shit. Joe was nothing short of a monster (and Rose wasn’t much better). As another poster said, she might had a learning disability, at most.

Thank you, r13. I always assumed she had some sort of autism or was just a little “special” in some way.

I’m so sorry she had to live that way. It’s a real shame.

So slicing out a part of her brain was a better option than having her tubes tied?

Catholics be weird.

I think she definitely was mentally challenged but she was one of those that you would not immediately notice it unless you got to know her. It didn't show in the way she looked or acted, which is consistent with MR as a result of hypoxia during the birthing process as opposed to something like Down's syndrome where there are obvious physical/genetic characteristics that go along with the MR as well. She was also considered very pretty in her day, most people probably focused on that aspect of her first. Then when they got to know her they realized that she was slow.

Rosemary as a young girl

R13 I agree with the theory of hypoxia during birth

I had a next door neighbor growing up and at first glance your would have no idea there was something wrong with her. But after talking with her for a few minutes you could tell she was mentally handicapped.

Maybe if Rosemary was born in 1968 and not 1918 there would have been a difference in Joe's treatment of her. As it is he had a stroke and spent his waning years with nothing but time to reflect on his treatment of all his children.

I always thought it was weird that the name on her birth certificate was Rose Marie, yet her family all called her Rosemary. Supposedly she particularly adored JFK. If I were superstitious, I would think that the Kennedy family tragedies that spanned the rest of the 20th century after Rosemary's lobotomy were the result of Joe having cursed his bloodline.

Joe was a bastard, and the rest of the family not much better. At least Joe, Rose, and the children. No idea how most of the grandchildren and later generations turned out, but it seems that many of them didn’t turn out great.

JFK was a horrible president who very nearly caused the extinction of human civilization. If he hadn’t been assasinated, he’d be regarded as one of the worst. Assuming he’d have been re-elected.