Barbara Streisand v Judy Garland?

WHATS your opinions?

Barbra had superior instrument for purity of tone and control. But she was a bit nasal. Judy had better delivery and passion; she was a better storyteller.

I'm not a fan of either, but they are like comparing apples and oranges. They're both singers, but the comparison ends there. It's like comparing Lady GaGa and Linda Ronstadt. That said, Judy was all about emotions and being in the moment, whereas with Barbra, all I get from her is complete control; over everything, her voice, her look, her...everything. I find that incredibly unattractive and unemotional. So, I guess I would vote Judy.

And yet, they are wonderful together.......

yeah, R4. That is timeless.

R4 that’s what I mean bitch literally chain smoked for forty year and was probably drunk there yet she keeps up with Babs somehow

Judy wasnt a great beauty proceeds to link picture of her great beauty lol. Barbara had the edge over Judy?? Barbara can see both ends of a bus.

Judy wasn't a great beauty and she knew it. That's she was always jealous of Lana Turner.

Barbara? Oh, dear.

Judy was superior to Barbra in every way.

r10 ironing his Hefty Hideaway caftan and swishing his hair.

Also, Judy was cute as hell and although freakishly talented, always relatable. My life would have been different without Judy, that's for sure.

Judy had a vulnerability that people could relate to.

Judy and Barbra are both incredible talents. Just sit back and enjoy them instead of making it into a contest.

R14, do you know where you are?

The Greatest Star.

Judy’s vag brought forth Liza, so she will always win any contest.

I dunno, Garland looks amazing in OP's pic, so there's that.

Judy wins on all counts.

There is no BARBARA, OP.

It's BARBRA, you fat whore!

Judy gave us Liza,

BarbAra StreisLand squirted out Jason Gould.

And they both gave us this little gem.

r22....already posted at r4, but worth repeating.....

R4 and R22: How Dass You Both Not Post The Next Part!! Judy and Barbra having tea with the good silver and Ethel shows up!! The Gay Chick is Overwhelming!!

^^Gay Chic* Though I'm sure there was a gay chick on that stage....

They cancel each other out with their pluses and minuses. Kind of like Crosby vs Sinatra.

R6, all reports say Judy wasn't plowed during that episode of the program because she saw Babs as a threat.

See the show in it's entirely tonight on GetTV - they're running a Judy Garland Show marathon from 10PM to 6AM. One of Liza's episodes is on at 10, Barbra at 11, Lena at 12AM, Merman at 4AM, etc etc.

Judy in her prime can’t be touched, B had a horse face end of story

There as a period in. The early. 1940s where Judy garland cane into her own and we can see what she would’ve been like without the booze, pills and stress of later years she was BEAUTIFUL

I don't think Babs would have been beautiful even with a nose job. And, to me being technically proficient isn't the same as being talented. Streisand is technically very good, but Judy had the talent.

Did Judy have a mall in her basement?

I think not.

Even Barbra nose that it’s Judy Judy Judy.

Judy at Carnegie Hall is the single greatest artistic performance ever put forth.

Judy was very pretty sometimes bordering on almost beautuful, for me. Barbra..there is something about her. I do not find her unattractive in the least. If anyone has ever seen that photo of her as a young kid on the bike handlebars with her brother I see a cuteness in that face. I do agree that comparing them is like apples and oranges. Like comparing Ella, Dinah Washington and Sarah Vaughn. Judy wins me over with that star quality stage presence. Breath taking all around. Barbra gets me with the that unique voice of hers and her bravado. Love them both.

I always found Judy beautiful. I was shocked when I found out a few years ago that she used to get called ugly by people during her life.

Ethel Merman vs Blossom Dearie?

Judy touches your heart. Babs never tried to,be vulnerable.

Barbra has immense talent, but her vanity and ego are her worst enemies.

Judy better all around, in looks, in singing, a million times better actress, then again can you be a million times better than zero?

Babs is a vile, nasty person who looks down on everyone except for her few select celeb friends and I'm sure she thinks she's better than them too. They probably have to kiss her ass to remain friends.

Judy was fucked up but a decent person. What Babs is that Judy never was is a good business woman.

Barbra was a hot pin up among straight men in high schools in the 70's. It was not uncommon to find her Superman pic alongside Farrah Fawcett's poster.

Did straight men lust after Jucy?

Judy was definitely more talented and better looking too. But her voice not long before she died was wrecked. All the drinking and the drugs ravaged it. And she looked a wreck, too. Streisand never went that route, at least. She thought too much of herself to ever ruin her voice and health by drinking and drugging.

R38 is that true? I can't imagine anyone lusting after Barbara, unless the 1970's was really a dark sad time in history. Meanwhile the fighting men of WWII was given this pinup of Judy in Esquire.

Na na, na na na to all Judy Garland fans.

On the Tony Awards, Tony Kushner just wished a happy birthday to Judy Garland!

OP is a fucking loon.

He can’t spell Barbra’s name, let alone objectively ask a question.

The fact is that Judy was a star who blew out her voice so early in her life that this isn’t even a fair question.

Garland didn't blow out her voice. Her vocal condition was affected by her health and drug use. When she was rested and on reduced medication, she sounded very good. Listen to her four songs in the tribute to Harold Arlen at Lincoln Center in November 1968.

Judy died while sitting on a toilet. I suspect that someday Babs will die in a more graceful way.

A lot of people die sitting on toilets.

"I suspect that someday Babs will die in a more graceful way."

She'll be shot in the back after shoplifting a doll from the doll shop. In the mall in her basement.

You mean, OP, in a fight, who would win?

Well, Judy is undoubtedly scrappy, but Barbra has those long scary nails, and I don't think she'd be afraid to use them. So my money's on Barbra.

[quote] On the Tony Awards, Tony Kushner just wished a happy birthday to Judy Garland!

She can't hear him!

"The rest of us will be forgotten. Never Judy." ~ Frank Sinatra quote from the promotional material from THE SONGBOOK OF JUDY GARLAND stage show, starring Judy's daughter, singer Lorna Luft.

Judy beats her in looks an voice Barbra is a horse face bitch

Judy. So soulful and wistful and powerful. And she was beautiful sometimes and when she wasn't she knew it, and that made her lovable. And she had some kind of built in resonator whereas Barbra just gets louder and shriller when she tries to amp it up, plus she seems so artificial now.

Nana Mouskouri!

Judy could sing, dance and act. And she produced a talented daughter.

Barbra had a strong voice.

How can you compare Crosby and Sinatra today?

Except for White Christmas Der Bingle is long forgotten.

Sinatra is still as a singer much beloved. He really is an instinctive genius.

And as a person as shitty as Sinatra was he didn't send all his first sons to suicide and death by alcohol poisoning.

Crosby's first wife became an alcoholic and died an early death. Sinatra's first wife is still alive.

You sure as hell didn't want to cross Frank but at least he treated his family really well.

Birch, please.

^ bitch

As a talent Garland is practically frightening in her brilliance.

Streisand was great early on but because money became her only god she became truly crappy.

Also though Garland was at times manipulative and mean Streisand often sounds like in the past she could be pretty nasty. Often. Maybe she's changed with age.

Her horrible plastic surgery and the collapse of her voice yet she still does these embarrassing tours make her grotesque. She's become a drag queen wearing a Barbra mask.

[quote]Birch, please. —Judy, and it's not even close

Judy, hon, it's too early for the gin.

Just listened to Barbra sing “Papa Ca You Hear Me?”. Sublime.....

[quote]Just listened to Barbra sing “Papa Ca You Hear Me?”. Sublime.....

The Nelson Munz version had more grit. He wasn't dead behind the eyes like Barbra was.

R61 Iconic

R32, This is NOT her brother.

It's Matthew Broderick!

"Barbra was a hot pin up among straight men in high schools in the 70's. It was not uncommon to find her Superman pic alongside Farrah Fawcett's poster."

Ha ha ha, you have a lot of nerve saying that R38. No, R40, it's not remotely true. Gay boys sure, not straight men. Babs looked good from the neck down in the superman shirt, but she was not ever a "pin up" for straight men or boys.

"...as a person as shitty as Sinatra was he didn't send all his first sons to suicide and death by alcohol poisoning"

No, Sinatra considered his son a sissy boy and possible homosexual, which is why rumors of Frankie Jr's 1963 kidnapping - that HE arranged the entire incident to get his fathers attention - were abound.

That is a beautiful picture, thank you R28

R65 Thanks for letting me know, I'm a bi guy and while I can't speak for straight guys, I doubted that anyone who finds women sexually attractive could ever see Streisand as a pin up. But, then again, I also knew it was the 1970's so I thought the drugs might have messed with people's minds.

And compared to Crosby's boys Frank Jr's life was a picnic.

None of these icons are people the average person would ever meet for the most part. I don't give a good cahoot (credit to Mavis Staples) about whether or not Barbra is a nice person or a bitch or whatever. She owes me nothing but a good performance.

I love the Sinatra quote but I do also agree with R55. Love Sinatra.

Judy was an icon horse face is... well she’s alive at least

Iconix Queen Barbra

Babes can go die already, maybe she is and they are just dragging along a waxwork that looks sort of like her to events

Babs is racing towards 80 and it's pretty sobering.

I have to say never lying about her age and not having plastic surgery when she was young was brave.

Whitney was the most beautiful and by far the most talented singer in pop music history. Only Sarah Vaughan comes close. Garland and Streisand are already forgotten. Their vocal styles are hideously dated, though Barbra did make some beautiful sounds back in the day. Whitney has hundreds of millions of fans around the world and gains more every day. There will never be a singer of such physical beauty, a pop sensation with soul aspiration, gifted with such flawless vocal genius again. With a voice as big as the sea. Whitney Houston.

And Judy could DANCE.

Judy was the greatest entertainer we will ever see (eldergay here). She did it all; sang, danced, acted. Unfortunately the studio system, her mother, and unfortunate choices in men to trust messed her up. Babs has managed to control her career and image to the max. If you can believe this: some years ago in the Townhouse, some guy was trying to chat me up, and asked what is the difference between Judy Garland, Joan Crawford, Bette Davis. After I confirmed he hasn't been living in a cave: my reply:

Joan Crawford was a movie star Bette Davis was an actress Judy Garland was an entertainer.

Judy always put a lot of emotions and personality into every song she sang. She knew how to interpret the lyrics and the melody.

Barbra seems to just sing some notes and is eager to showcase her voice, but there is no life in her performance, no guts, no feelings, no compassion. It's like she doesn't have a clue what the song she sings is about.

There was this documentary about Judy and her conductor told the story that Judy would go on tour with absolute minimal staff, equipment and musicians, whereas Barbra always got the best lighting, best sound system, biggest trailer, biggest everything.

You can hear that in their performances. Judy just gets up there and sings her heart out. Barbra, unless she has rehearsed 30 times and everything is absolutely perfect she won't get behind a microphone or on a stage.

As a talent Garland is practically frightening in her brilliance.

So true and well said R58. I love that.

Years ago some journalist wrote that Judy was a freak — her talent being so singularly tremendous, she was a freak of nature.

Most of what Garland sang was quality.

Streisand would do porn if it brought in enough money.

There was this documentary about Judy and her conductor told the story that Judy would go on tour with absolute minimal staff, equipment and musicians, whereas Barbra always got the best lighting, best sound system, biggest trailer, biggest everything.

True story. Mort Lindsey said it, R77. Barbra wanted Mort Lindsey as her conductor because she saw how comfortable Judy was with him onstage. After Judy died, he became Barbra’s conductor. He won a grammy for Babs’ concert in the park, etc.

Anywaaay, to get to my pernt, Mort Lindsey was asked a couple of years before he died (he died in the last 5 years or so), to name the greatest artist and he answered,

“Are you kidding? Judy Garland. Nobody even comes close.”

A few years ago I sort of rediscovered Garland for myself. I tried listening to her as if I hadn't heard her before and as if I'd never read about her cult and icon status. And her sheer, bone-deep musicianship just knocked me out.

Barbra and of course other singers have dancers, back-up singers, lighting effects, etc.

This quote from Harold Arlen about Judy comes to mind:

“Just give her a stage and a microphone and get out of the way.”

Judy the Incomparable. Even Queen of Shade Aretha Franklin said,

“Judy Garland was Soul personified. With a capital S. She was in a class by herself.”

We have had this debate so many times in these pages. It reminds me of the frequent debate we have over BOYS IN THE BAND. You either get it or you don't. It is Judy Judy Judy all the way. Not that Barbra wasn't a talented vocalist, especially early in her career, but Judy eclipses her in every way. Judy's film career was better than Barbra's, who has some real clunkers in there (NUTS, MIRROR HAS TWO FACES, MEET THE FOCKERS). Judy's voice, even in her worst days, was brimming with honesty and sincerity, whereas Barbra's was more stagey and performance oriented.

And crackhead Whitney Houston is a notch well below both of them.

"Barbra seems to just sing some notes and is eager to showcase her voice, but there is no life in her performance, no guts, no feelings, no compassion. It's like she doesn't have a clue what the song she sings is about."

R77, you obviously have never heard her overly dramatic singing on the early albums.

Ancient white racist f@g alert at R83. One of those 5 people who post under every Garland youtube video that "even on her worst days, Judy was better than anyone" or "she was the world's greatest entertainer." No, she wasn't. Even on her best day.

Babs does not even come close to Judy. The Wizard of Oz will continue to be watched long after everything Barbra has ever done has been forgotten. We're almost there by the way.

What is this shit about will and won't be forgotten? It's a smoke screen for people who can't answer the question. I remember the 60s when Streisand could do no wrong and Garland was an alcoholic embarrassment, and obviously that means nothing to most of you today.

We're talkin' posterity heah.

[quote]her overly dramatic singing

overly dramatic singing doesn't necessarily mean you know how to interpret lyric or melody.

I can't think of any singer who's phrasing was more off than Streisand's.

Well said, r77

The reason Babs got the big money for her orchestra where Judy didn't, is because Babs sold records - Judy didn't.

Judy was one of the greatest talents but frittered it away with a very messy personal life: pills, drugs, often showing up late on movie sets, and bad choices for husbands, especially toward the end, and very little control over her personal life, period. It all took its toll and she died at only age 47.

Streisand avoided the drug scene, kept care of herself, and didn't leave a string of bad husbands behind. She was very much in control of her life and has had a long and successful career. Still alive and well at age 76.

Sometimes it's not so much a question of great talent that one has but longevity in one's career. Judy burned out way too early while Streisand is still with us.

Garland already had a white hot intensity while still a teen incapable of making a wrong move.

He who rides upon the tiger can never get off.

The Wizard of Oz is a classic. Judy Garland will never die. Legend never do.

I heard "Pills" gave the best head, but Babs was the better all-around fuck (?)

There's a couple of Garland trolls that try to mock and deride her. I think living in their mom's basements has made them retarded. Why troll someone who is long dead and had a very bad time of it in her life? And no, I'm not new to DL. I've been here since the beginning.

Because JUDY IS AN ICON R96 AN ICON!

^^ LIKE THIS ONE ^^

Luckily, we have a standard by which we can compare the two: They both starred in "A Star Is Born".

As for looks, Judy wasn't a great beauty, but she did have a brief period when she was very attractive...when she appeared in Meet Me In St. Louis. She was so happy with the way she looked in that film that she married her (gay) director.

I thought she was at her loveliest in GIRL CRAZY and PRESENTING LILY MARS.

R100 and in The Clock!

Yes, THE CLOCK too,

Someone mentioned A Star Is Born. I like both Babs and Judy, but Judy's version was a real classic while Babs' version was a narcissistic mess - a horror that I would never watch again.

A Star Bombed. Avoid this movie like the plague.

50 years from now no one will remember Babs. They will still know Judy.

Babs' Star is Born is enough to strike you blind, deaf and dumb.

Just like The Mirror Has Two Faces, Funny Lady, The Main Event...

Dear god what was wrong with that woman?

Judy garland is a queen she’s such an icon that Elizabeth cried when she met her

I think Barbie’s eyes are gorgeous, and I like the character of her face. Her singing leaves me absolutely cold even though it is technically beautiful.

Judy Garland is special to me because she is Dorothy, and she certainly seems like a character all the way around. I love the way she sings; it really is the polar opposite of Barbra’s to my ears, being all about emoting whereas Barbra is all about sounding “perfect.” I’ll take Judy any day.

Unfortunatley, what I’ve heard from both of them is mostly bland, artless music that to me is the equivalent of a Monet poster bought from Michael’s in a black acrylic frame. Technically it could be called art, but really it’s just commerce.

Barbara who the fuck isbbarbara?

Some sort of cosmic connection drew this young gay boy at the age of 11 or so to Judy Garland: I was suddenly transfixed by CBS's annual airing of "The Wizard of Oz" (despite the fact that I'd already seen it several times). I became a huge fan even though I soon learned that in the early 80s such a thing was tantamount to announcing my sexual orientation on a billboard in Times Square. I practically wore out my soundtracks to "The Wizard of Oz" and "A Star Is Born," not to mention the double album of "Judy at Carnegie Hall." All I knew of Barbra Streisand, at least as a singer, was her amazing duet with Judy from "The Judy Garland Show." But then on a whim I rented "Funny Girl" for the first time in my early twenties; that led me to buying both the original cast recording of the Broadway show as well as the soundtrack to the film, then basically all of Barbra's early albums, and finally the ultimate collection of her work, "Just for the Record.," which includes a number of rare recordings from her earliest television appearances. I understand what many of the postings above have noted about the overly produced, too-controlled, even emotionless albums Barbra has been putting out since the late 70s or early 80s, but in her first ten years or so as a performer she was absolutely ELECTRIFYING. Many of her early television specials and concerts have just been released on Netflix; if you're only familiar with her later work, do yourself a favor and watch "My Name Is Barbra" or "Color Me Barbra," or "A Happening in Central Park." I think you'll be blown away.

Maybe it’s my dislike for Barbra as a person that makes me dislike her work, but I just can’t help seeing her sleazy slimy personality through everything she does - I do not get that with Judy garland she was simply so sweet, very lovable and kind you could see it in her, that plus her pure joy of performing well it was wonderful to see

How do so many of you claim to know that Barbra is a horrible person? I’ve heard the stories as well, but I’ve also had the chance to interact directly with her four or five times, and she was lovely each time.

She’s lovely cause you paid her R112

R111, I can see why Bab's ego could turn someone off, but Judy was a pathetic excuse for a human 1965-69. You're lucky you weren't around.

R112--more please.

How did they call her ugly? She was so pretty

“LOOKS???” What the fuck are we, straight men???

Barbra has a better voice but Judy is 10,000 times the performer, as both actress and singer. However, Barbra gets props for pushing that glass ceiling in a male-dominated field, while Judy’s legacy is forever tarnished by the personal demons that she eventually succumbed to. They’re fairly equal, but Judy is closely connected to the Golden Age of Hollywood, and did spawn a small dynasty, ok, maybe a stretch, but she birthed LIZA!,, so she wins in a close race. The end.

Looks matter as a performer is Judy garland was a 609 pound whale with a hooked nose and warts would she be considered a great star? Hell no!

It is said that the reason Garland lost the Oscar to Grace Kelly(can you fucking imagine?) was because she could be pretty miserable and alienated a lot of people.

Supposedly right after he finished Star Is Born according to Scotty Bowers(I know I know) Cukor couldn't say enough negative things about Garland as she made his life a living hell.

Supposedly Charles Walters who you see dancing with her in Girl Crazy when he was scheduled for another film with her after Summer Stock begged off saying one more film with her and he'd have a nervous breakdown.

R118 English obviously isn't your primary language.

You are right darling it’s my third you old fag R120

Barbra is a song stylist.

Judy was a song interpreter.

Got it?

I think Babs is a great interpretess of song, especially her early stuff. She’s no Judy, but I can’t believe so many of you don’t think she can sell a song.

In her first 10 years she was a great singer until she started exaggerating her characteristics which made her individual in the first place. Then she became a parody of singers of the 70s and 80s and made films that would horrify the least discriminating of moviegoers.

R121, what the hell are you doing here? I’m guessing you haven’t mastered the other two any better. Or maybe you’re just stupid....

Audiences turn up for interpreters, no-one gives a shit about a stylist unless you're writing the history of the genre (for boys). And even then, who cares?

You try writing in three languages and not getting the third non native one right all the time, I’m sure you would come across just as “stupid as I

[quote]English obviously isn't your primary language.

What the fuck does this have to do with anything, you racist fucking cunt?

R128 is triggered.

R128 = Stephen Miller

Above when I wrote about Charles Walters I meant to say he directed Garland in Summer Stock. Then I believe he was asked to direct her in Royal Wedding at which point he ran screaming from the studio.

As we know she fucked that up as she had Barkleys of Broadway and even the ever gentlemanly Astaire who scored one of the greatest successes of his career with her in Easter Parade had had enough and was very angry.

And to this day I'm staggered by her talent. I watch Mr Monotony cut from Easter Parade a lot. It's clear why it was cut. The tone is all wrong for the movie in its intensity but her delivery of it is jaw dropping in its perfection. Much like FD Roosevelt Jones from Babes On Broadway. I'm always where in hell does this come from? It cannot be taught. If there ever was a performing genius she's it.

To the uninformed person who said that Garland didn't sell records, "Judy at Carnegie Hall charted for 73 weeks on the Billboard chart (including 13 weeks at number one), was certified gold, and took home five Grammy Awards (including Album of the Year and Best Female Vocal Performance)."

I think it's a mainly a generational thing.

The older you, are the more likely you are to prefer Judy over Barbra, Barbra over Whitney, Whitney over Beyonce . . .

So silly to compare them. I find both of them to be the greatest ballad singers, ever- and pretty damn fine with uptempo, jazz and even disco and pop in some cases. Each all the way through their careers have excelled and singing the ballad- the ability to take a great sound, wrap it in phrasing and musical dynamic that cannot be taught, summon power, vibrato and nuance, and seem to do so as if they are talking to you. Even at 74- get your hands on Streisand singing her last encore from her last tour (Didn't Know What Time it Was)- it's sublime. No one alive can sing and deliver a song like that today- and perhaps only Judy in her prime.

Revel in great talent and artistry- not just these two, but Whitney, Ella, Sarah, Joni, etc. So silly to tear one or any of them down. Come on.

Funny I grew up with Babs not Judy. Judy was my mother's generation.

Still what is great is that Garland was always true to her talents. Babs sang shit from the port o johns if it would make her money.

Ok so it got her that stupendous estate in Malibu and her own private shopping mall. But honestly I can understand Garlands crushing bouts with anxiety and depression and fear a lot more than an overwhelming need for a private mall. Though 5 houses in Malibu each with its own style of architecture is kind of cool. What do I feel like today? New England farm? Regency manor? Renaissance pile?

Really 135- what does that have to do with her vocal talent and catalogue. I suppose singing classical music was commercial? Of course she sang commercially focused music- every great singer want to sell their product. But if you really know her catalogue you would know that essentially she sang (and sings) the greatest song writers of her time- and more so than any singer, ever- quite simply: Sondheim, Gershwin, Bernstein, Arlen, Berlin, Porter, Legrand, Weill, Styn, Mitchell, Lennon and McCartney, Rogers, Kander and Ebb, Wonder, and on and on into the classical world. Her concerts, like Garland's are quite simply the great American songbook- including Streisand's last tour. You really don't know- do you?

[quote]Babs sang shit from the port o johns if it would make her money.

I think Barbra is a much better singer than Garland, but this observation is spot on.

I regret that when Barbra wasn't in top voice (in the 70s/80s) she didn't record sets of the Great American Songbook, like Ella Fitzgerald, instead of albums full of forgettable rubbish. Just like I am sorry she didn't do Gypsy instead of shit movies during that same time.

But then she wouldn't have her art collection.

Still when she was in her 40s or 50s I seriously doubt she would have had many problems getting funding for a theatrical release film of Gypsy. Of course her ego couldn't have withstood playing a mother to a grown daughter when she was only middle-aged.

R138

"Miss West only plays girls younger than 25."

-- Mae West, 72

Of course R138, that's why- what insight you have!

[quote]Of course her ego couldn't have withstood playing a mother to a grown daughter when she was only middle-aged.

Just like her ego wouldn't have withstood playing a boy by cutting her own hair and not wearing women's makeup.

Streisand who was actually playing a girl was how old?

R142 Barbra was 40 during filming.

40 is middle-aged. That could easily have been Rose's age. That's kind of old to be playing a girl don't you think? Unless of course you're doing something like The Major and The Minor or Too Young to Kiss.

I'd actually like to see an actress play Rose who is, at most, only 40-45. Rose would have been in her late teens/early 20's when she had her children which puts her in her late 20's/early 30's when the show begins and in her early 40's by the time the show ends. Why do they always insist on casting 65 year olds to play Rose these days? On film, casting someone like that would be laughed off the screen. Unless they were planning on doing extensive CGI to de-age Barbra (a la Michael Douglas in Ant Man) for the first 30 minutes of the movie, I don't see how this would have ever been a good idea past 2003.

To be honest, I don't see Barbra being a good enough actress to pull a role like Rose off. She's so concerned with how she's being photographed and if she looks good in the frame. How's that going to work during a scene like "Rose's Turn" which should be angry and ugly and pathetic? Judy could have pulled off Rose even though it seemed like blatant miscasting to have the queen of vulnerability play such a monster, but I genuinely think Judy was a good enough actress to make that leap and I'm sure she would have been wonderful. A shame that never happened.

Judy always was the better actress. As much as Barbra likes to talk about her first love was classic theatre and how she wanted to play all the great, classic roles, she never has. And there was a time where she could have played anything she wanted to and what did she pick? Mostly forgettable fluff. It's her own fault. It's too late to prove herself with Gypsy (and I think she finally knows that).

I had the pleasure of reading the script for her planned Gypsy and, believe it or not, it was rather excellent and made such a stage-bound piece feel alive and theatrical and I'd love to see a movie version use that screenplay, but I don't think it'll be happening with Barbra. Then again, who's a singing actress who could pull off Rose these days? They have to be able to turn on the charm and make us laugh as well as give us the chills.

Babs is now the age Hermione was when she originated Mme Armfeldt. Let's hope she doesn't wait too long or she'll be too old for this role as well.

Wiki @ R132, that was ONE album. One. Garland recorded a dozen others and they did sell. Neither did Liza's.

R147 I think you mean "the did NOT sell."

Outside of that concert, Garland is not known for her recordings. I can see why. I have tried to listen to her albums.

Judy had a stage mother behind her who moved her and her sister from Grand Rapids, Michigan to Lancaster CA and finally Hollywood, all to make her daughter a star.

What did Barbra's mom do? She gave young Barbara (not Barbra) a water bottle in place of a dolly, and in later years went over to Yetta Abramowitz's apartment to play Mah Jong with her girlfriends while Barbra sought fame and fortune in lower Manhattan on her own.

I thought the Liza album she did with the Pet Shop Boys was fun. But more for their touches, not her hammy contributions, which come across as entertainingly campy.

I remember hearing a Liza pop album in New Orleans. It was unendurable.

R149 Barbra's mother was worse than that. She not only didn't help, she resented Barbra for succeeding. Barbra's mother thought she should have been the star.

I always thought her mother was better and she did deserve the stardom Babs got instead.

Styne really wrote Funny Girl for her but Babs was the type to steal a starring role in a Broadway musical away from her own mother cheating her out of an Oscar as well.

Barbra told her mother the that Ed Sullivan filmed at 9 o'clock, instead of 8. Barbra showed up and went on for her mother. The rest is history.

You've got to be a shark to become a real star.

Before Barbra's mother's audition at Columbia records, Barbra inserted "flats" before every third note.

After the mother was stopped after only one song, Barbra said: "Mother must be nervous. That's all. She usually doesn't sound THIS bad. Let me refresh her memory about how the song's supposed to sound . . . In A, please."

Or have others be sharks for you, R154.

I blocked R150-155. It is a sociopath.

I always had the impression Babs had no problem doing her own dirty work unlike the always sweet and lovely Mary Martin or Rosalind Russell.

This discussion is hilarious.

Judy is Judy.

Barbra is Liza.

BarbAra is talented but she is swine compared to Judy.

What I have learned,

Judy is pretty much a goddess who did nothing wrong, sang like an angel and rose to the top based of her physical beauty, stunning voice and superb acting - and her shit didn’t stink,

BarbAra aka Barbra was a fat, dead, emotionless, horse faced hitch who had no talent and clawed her way to the top by using her teeth and fucking over her perfect mother, cause Barbra is the devil incarnate.

r161 this is mostly correct except for Judy doing NOTHING wrong. No one here said she was perfect.

Barbra's greatest musical moment: "My Man" from Funny Girl

Judy's greatest: "The Man Who Got Away" from A Star is Born OR "Get Happy" from Summer Stock

Liza's greatest: "New York, New York" from the Statue Of Liberty Concert.

Lucy's greatest musical moment: "It's Today" from Mame.

Remember.....Babs has lived to be almost twice the age of Judy when she died (almost).......when she was younger, she was the shit and was just as good as Judy at delivering the goods. Here is a live tv clip of her doing My Man from Funny Girl.......for a live, unaltered early recording, she blows the roof off the studio......

Barbra wins by a nose.

a BIG nose

horse faced hitch???

I've never liked Judy Garland. I think she had immense talent, but I don't like the way she sings.

I used to love Barbra because her voice is so one-of-a-kind -- so much better than Garland's -- but now I find her very mannered and unappealing.

Of course, she has now lost her voice. But that is the luxury of not being an addict who shits her brains out on a toilet.

R16 listen to Judy’s voice as a teenage to early twenties then come back to me - babs cant hold a candle

Did garland have any true friends towards the end of her life?

They were both great on screen, but in different ways. But Barbra recordings, nowadays, don't speak to me very much at all. A couple times a year I'll play Judy Garland and she pops. The energy and humanity and artistry still emanates. Its sort of a miracle. Jimi Hendrix and David Bowie can still pump it out to me, as well. Also some classic opera recordings.

[quote]Jimi Hendrix and David Bowie can still pump it out to me

You need a rentboy; not dead musician.

No, R171. And she was homeless.

I just watched "Barbra Streisand and Other Musical Instruments" on Netflix.

I had never seen it.

I was surprised by how cheesy the production values were. Maybe that was just because of the time it was shot.

It was also funny to see her dressed in African clothing with a fro. I kept hearing imaginary people screaming "CULTURAL APPROPRIATION!" throughout.

On the plus side: She sounded pretty amazing and didn't take herself too seriously (which surprised me).

BARBARA IS A WHORE

I think that fact that Barbara never got the nose job made her more iconic. All American Jewish girl embracing her roots. plus I always heard that real vocalist won't ever touch their noses because they may not able to sing the same if they do.

I assume you're trying to be funny by calling her "Barbara."

Both of them: great singers- the very best and gifts to the world of music. When either of them cuts into a great song, with their distinctive timbres, vibratos gaged to the emotion, phrasing, power dynamics and artistry there is nothing like it; sublime.

They lived different lives. But they were the first to appreciate each other.

Get your hands on Streisand singing her last encore in her last concert DVD- "Didn't Know What Time it Was" at age 74. Not a singer alive can touch it. Still.

I see no one in 2018 who come close to these two towering talents. Aretha perhaps- but Aretha never could sustain it in a concert- (I've seen her at least a dozen times.) Streisand in concert is something else- that voice, the stage presence. I'm too young to have seen Judy- but in good health and voice the stories are legendary, and of course I know Carnegy Hall by heart.

r179 Carnegy??? You FUCKING IDIOT.

R179 that’s a lovely sentiment :)

“Carnegie”, thank you R180. The world needs more wonderful trolls like you!

R179 proudly defends its idiocy.

There is an authenticity about Judy's singing, and I continue to be surprised, particularly when her recordings are remastered. You hear the tiniest of nuances that floor you. I don't like her singing at every point in her career (e.g., the late 1950s when she "oversang" -- is that a word?) or periodically in the late 1960s. But the pre-Oz Judy is astonishing; her voice in the early 1940s is engaging; then, from Meet Me in St. Louis until the late 1940s, her voice is almost hypnotic. Then she hits you with her mature, adult voice in the early 1950s -- uncannily powerful and expressive. Put that together with her ability to sell a song visually -- from A Great Lady Gives and Interview, to Get Happy, to some of the songs in her TV show -- "When the Sun Comes Out" and "The Music that Makes Me Dance" come to mind -- and you get the unique magic of her talent. It's wonderful, it's scary, and I can't stop listening.

I came across a really interesting comment on a Youtube video about Streisand's career:

"She's probably one of the biggest disappointments from the 20th century. For someone who wanted to be known primarily as an actress she has failed miserably. As a singer, which she seems to resent to a large degree, she is fantastic. Her film career is one of the least prolific and undistinguished. At her height, the 1970's, she made just 6 films, most of them failures and forgettable. I opine it was mis-management; which she controlled. It is ironic that she is "revered" as a perfectionist because she ruined her own career as an actress. Sadly, as an actress, she was a has-been with an incredibly undistinguished career by the 80's. A great songstress however that disappointingly never showed an interest in being a singer. Perhaps, as per her discography, she was a victim of corporate greed; settling for rock and disco (a victim of the times) and trying to be contemporary. This has unfortunately left her with a largely inauspicious history of song recordings too. Her best legacy is left buried in 1960's as an incredible talent with a huge future of possibilities but ultimately an uninteresting and dull past; Hollywood and ego ultimately squelching an incredible waste of a talent."

"She's probably one of the biggest disappointments from the 20th century. For someone who wanted to be known primarily as an actress she has failed miserably. As a singer, which she seems to resent to a large degree, she is fantastic. Her film career is one of the least prolific and undistinguished. At her height, the 1970's, she made just 6 films, most of them failures and forgettable. I opine it was mismanagement; which she controlled. It is ironic that she is "revered" as a perfectionist because she ruined her own career as an actress. Sadly, as an actress, she was a has-been with an incredibly undistinguished career by the 80's. A great songstress however that disappointingly never showed an interest in being a singer. Perhaps, as per her discography, she was a victim of corporate greed; settling for rock and disco (a victim of the times) and trying to be contemporary. This has unfortunately left her with a largely inauspicious history of song recordings too. Her best legacy is left buried in 1960's as an incredible talent with a huge future of possibilities but ultimately an uninteresting and dull past; Hollywood and ego ultimately squelching an incredible waste of a talent."

Streisand was a "victim of corporate greed?!!!"

Ha fucking Ha! Babs herself was a combine harvester of greed!

"Hollywood and ego ultimately squelching an incredible waste of talent."

Now what the fuck pray tell does that mean?

It’s barbara darling not barbra

r188....no its Barbra, not Barbara

R186 I greatly prefer to listening to Streisand over Judy Garland, but I have to agree with all of that.

R188 = stinkfish

Barbra Streisand has an amazing voice, but going into the 1970s, she sounded like she was just "presenting" her songs. Her 1960s performing sounds so invested...then she just became ethereal and detached (for the most part).

There's something about Judy Garland's singing that seems more intimate, revealing, and generous.

R179 "Not a singer alive can touch it."

Keyword: ALIVE

R186- silly post. Streisand has been singing and recording for her entire career, the great composers of the 20th Century and her time. Her catalogue is the most extensive and varied of any singer, ever actually, Sinatra, Ella, Garland. Aretha. Marilyn Horne called her the consummate singer when asked who she admired as a popular singer. Audra McDonald and Rene Flemming and Donna Summer are all on record calling her one of the greatest ever (but what do they know.) Jule Stein, Richard Rogers, Irving Berlin and others called her the best ever in the 1960s. My guess R186 is that you really have no idea how extensive her catalogue is. All that said, you don't have to like her. I'm not over the moon about Maria Callas, but I sure know she was singular and a great artist. She too gathered the kind of plaudits that Streisand has from her peers. The whole show business world turns up at her concerts. Why do you suppose that happens? Exact same phenomenon with Garland.

Agree her film career would have been better if she has let others take charge of her talent. But her recorded catalogue of music is absolutely astounding. Some say early was great, some say mature, some say the pop, some say all of it, some none of it. In her concerts starting in '93 she selects for her entire catalogue.

Your post is silly. She, like Judy is a vocal genius. If you have ever seen her live up close, it's even more astounding. I have, and I've seen Aretha, Lena Horne, Linda R. and scores of great singers- including opera. Some say Streisand is only good in the recording studio- ha! She's better and best live and in person.

You're silly R186. Why do people tear what's great down. Why? Why not appreciate these great singers. There really in nothing like either Garland or Streisand performing in 2018.

Could judy have ever done an album like guilty?

Judy singing Guilty would sound like Liza's Pet Shop Boys album -- very campy.

That said, who listens to Guilty today?

Judy could’ve transcended into the 70s and 80s she probably would’ve worked up until the 90s (with the help of a lift and tuck) she would have stopped singing around 84/85 and settled into either TV or a string of biographies

Interesting the think about R197, but she was barely functional from substance abuse at age 25. So it's pretty wild speculation. By the way- due to her substance abuse, from about the early 1950s on, despite her voice still being spectacular, she was impossible both professionally and personally, although not 100% of the time. All biographies of her are harrowing- her peers, her business management (that she was taken advantage of is more or less a function of her own dysfunction), and finally her children. She trashed houses, hotels, slashed her wrists regularly, yelled and screamed at everyone, did not pay bills, etc etc. For the last couple of years of her life she saw very little of her children because in her care, their well being was at risk. All that said, her recorded voice and her music and her movies remain what they are: National treasures. That she pulled herself together for concerts was remarkable. She apparently she had not slept for a couple days before the Carnegie Hall concert yet look what she produced (drugs no doubt). And lordy she looked the worse for it all at age 47. Nevertheless, I adore her work and at the core, what must have been a good woman. Had to be to produce what she did when the substance abuse took a back seat for a little while.

R198 she tried to kick it for year though no? I could see her finally doing it - at least for the nest part being functional on them and maybe continuing her career, I mean she did it before time and time again right?

To my knowledge the only time she cleaned up was a brief period (she spent some time alone In NYC) just before she married Minnelli (sp?) in about 1944 or 5. Sid Luft more or less managed her intake and kept her on track, but as soon as he was gone (even he was worn down by her) she spiraled down again. Through it all she lived almost hand to mouth due to her inability to manage her finances despite making lots of money. Minnelli kept her in check for a short while financially, but not off substances. She nearly died of liver failure in the late 50s, so she probably cleaned up briefly in the hospital, but no- she was pretty much on amphetamines and barbiturates from age 13 for life, mixed in with a helluva lot of alcohol as an adult. Barbiturates killed her- doubt suicide, just too many one night. In the last 6 months of her life, most thought she was dying- she ate very little and sleep was something she could not do. She also smoked- that as much as anything probably ruined her voice.

R200 you sound so cold, and clinical. I'd bet you wish you could do anything close to as brilliant as what Garland did on her worst days.

"Marilyn Horne called her the consummate singer"

LINK? Never heard of such a quote.

"Judy could’ve transcended into the 70s and 80s"

She barely transitioned into the 1960s, her material was so old old old.

"She apparently she had not slept for a couple days before the Carnegie Hall concert yet look what she produced (drugs no doubt). "

I doubt. Judy was on a bi-polar high, added by drugs. Unless she got help for mental illness FIRST, kicking the drugs would never have happened. She didn't want to deal with those issues. And for all her concert and night club successes, there were dozens of onstage collapses, couldn't fulfill the engagement, didn't show up for the engagement. And ALL of this happened in public - everyone knew she was unreliable.

R212

‘In order to project all this, I have to exercise what I call ‘abandoned control.’ It may sound a little strange, but I've studied Barbra Streisand very closely to get this kind of effect. She is one of the most ‘abandonedly controlled’ singers I know. What she does may look and sound spontaneous, but she is in control of herself and her voice every second.”

Marilyn Horn

No cigar, R204. I'm looking for "the consummate singer" bullshit.

This is a bit off topic, but will we ever learn the truth about Judy? Who were her girl friends? Was she a junkie? How did she deal with her kids? Is Joey really Fetal Alcohol Syndrome?

I hate them both. Which one do I hate more? It's hard to say.

The Slipper and the Rose was shit.

Judy garland is such a pretty name... shame it didn’t translate to her piggy face

R205, she said it on a 60 minutes interview about 25 years ago. Very interesting R204. Horne was studying another singers technique.

R206, most all of those questions are answered in several biographies. No one can know for sure about Joey, but it's very likely. He does not have the classic physical symptoms of the syndrome, but his slow mental abilities are characteristic.

R201 Are you the same poster who used to scold Judy Pills about her name?

R201- I am merely telling you some of what I know about Garland. I am a huge fan of her's- she was a genius. I've read almost everything ever published about her. She was a lifelong addict and alcoholic and her addictions ravaged her in every way. She died at 47 and looked like death her last few years, and for most of her last 20 she looked like exactly what she was: addicted, sleep deprived and on the edge of disaster which she was. That said, she was one of if not the most engaging, magnetic and gifted entertainer(s) ever. Only Streisand is as gifted and she "suffers" here because she is just the opposite of being a mess- and many on this thread and others do not take well to strong women- interesting phenom probably related to misogyny, even among gay men. She is in full control of her life, personally and professionally, and one of the most significant philanthropists in the entertainment world. It's kind of interesting how two towering talents could be so different. Garland's talent should have made her vastly wealthy, like Streisand.

But I don't know either one- I only know their work, and as singers and entertainers they are both extraordinary. I admire Streisand as a fearless liberal activist and philanthropist who puts her ca$h where her convictions are and has done so very intelligently and effectively, publicly and anonymously. (My Mom was a trustee at a major women's college and informed me many years ago of a very large gift from Streisand- anonymous- as Mom knew I was a fan and also where all philanthropy came from.)

Charlie, I know people jump down your throat here, but you shouldn't be afraid to sign your posts.

Who are you R214- God?

I love Charlie's posts too. And can usually recognize them without his name.

Judy told Barbra: " Don´t let them do to you, what they did to me."

She didn´t.

AND she allowed Judy to mess with her sheitl!

Never happend again!

Charlie has trashed Whitney Houston and Mariah Carey among others many times over the years. Yet he tries to shame anyone who trashes someone he likes (especially Streisand)

I knew it was Charlie. Wow. He should be proud of what he thinks he knows, no?

I have not trashed Whitney- I was a fan. She was a disappointment somewhat because she did not realize her potential as a singer. While you can certainly explain it by substance abuse- Garland was even more abusive of substances but her legacy as a singer is much greater. Whitney never progressed beyond pop and did not have to vocaland artistic stamina to become a great performer. Now Mimi, some great early pop and unfortunately she became a parody of herself before she was 35- and lost her voice too. If that’s trashing, so be it. Neither really broke ground like Aretha did with her Atlantic recordings which are genius. I’ve seen Re Re many times and when she sat down at the piano- the room moved. But, like Whitney, she was very irratic in performance. I felt very sorry for Whitney- she was a kesbian who was forced into an image that had nothing to do with who she was- I guess she did not have the courage of a KD Lang. My partner in the 1980s sold her Tony Chase (clothes) as a rep for Rod Owens in NYC- she was with Robyn. They were openly a couple and even then Whitney was doing coke pretty openly during the day/ sad.

"Who are you [R214]- God?"

What gave it away?

R213 "I am a huge fan of her's"

OH FUCKING DEAR

Notice Babs was confused at Judy's lesbian advances (R217)

She wanted to eat Judy to consume her talent

Streisand should have had the number of quality films in her entire lifetime Garland managed in 10 years.

I saw Sinatra and Fitzgerald in their 70s and they could still pull it off and be tremendous. But Babs in that Netflix concert I had to turn off after one number. She should be pretty embarrassed.

I bet though her compound is impressive. Pat Conroy said she lives like Marie Antoinette.

Yes us gays are frightened and derisive of empowered women because they remind of our nightmare mothers. This makes us misogynists.

You are an asshole.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

r226......a drug store maybe.

[quote]R226 Barbra has her own shopping center in her basement. Could Judy have ever dreamed of such a thing??

[quote]R227 a drug store maybe.

Yeah, I can definitely see a pharmacy...

Who works in the Customer Service/Returns department?

Lorna needs a job (?) Joey can be stockboy.

Well at least she didn't build a vast theme park for the express purpose of preying on and sexually abusing small children which is practically Roman Emperor in its deviousness, depravity and grandiosity.

"Yeah, I can definitely see a pharmacy..."

I see a mansion like the Overlook Hotel, where Judy could have endless parties and sit at the bar with the ghost murder. There would be a fantasy pharmacy that dispenses drugs in big barrels like the canned peaches in the kitchen in the movie.

[quote]I saw Sinatra and Fitzgerald in their 70s and they could still pull it off and be tremendous.

This is not true. Ella was pretty good, but Sinatra was bad and phoning it all in when I saw him.

[quote]Welcome to my home: Barbra Streisand opened the doors to her Miami home in an interview on Good Morning America

While I appreciate the Daily Mail's Brenda Dickson reference, I see they are fact checking with their usual zeal.

Her house looks like how I imagine Dollywood.

Depends when you saw him. Sinatra had his off nights I've heard. I heard him on a wonderful night.

And Streisand is pretty awful in that concert video. I've never heard a singer so all over the place going up and down like an out of control elevator trying to find the right floor.

I saw Sinatra in concert with Liza Minelli and Sammy Davis, Jr. Friends of my parents has bought the tickets and couldn't go, so I got them.

We were all shocked at how Sinatra was, by far, the worst of the three. He seemed very old. And very bored.

I went in hating Davis, Jr., but thought he was pretty good. The big shocker was how entertaining Liza was. The audience loved her.

That video of Streisand sining Enough is Enough confirms two surprising things:

1. She really has lost her voice; and

2. She isn't the control freak that everyone says she is. She seems very loose, talking to the crowd. She doesn't even seem to care that she messed up the lyrics.

[quote]I have not trashed Whitney

Hundreds of posts prove otherwise charlie. You can't stay away from a Whitney Houston thread but to announce her inferiority and trash her voice and singing, her drug use and over and over ad old man nauseum - her lack of an impressive musical catalogue. In your humble and learned opinion as the world's oldest handkerchief salesboy. Didn't Jackie O once buy a pocket square from you?

Suggest watching the whole concert and not one number- R225 is a miserable sod- almost all people who write stuff like that are- angry unhappy: troll

The voice is diminished but still fully capable of delivering and sustaining over the entire concert. Some people like that rasps here and there- not me. Best number is the last encore.

Take it easy R239. Every thing I said about Whitney is fact. Yes she had a great voice for about 10 years but her probkems overwhelmed her career. Doubt you will find many among her peers who disagree including her rather limited catalogue- Aretha has a great catalogue.. I loved her- but it was sad to see what happened- what could have been. I’ve left out a bit more of what I know about Whitney and Robyn and Tony Chase. She had a terrible drug problem, in 1986! As for selling handkerchiefs to Mrs O- she bought sweaters. I had a ball working in that store for 5 or 6 years. I tell my old stories because some people get a kick out of them. I doubt you want to hear about the 30 plus career I was preparing for (in school) while I was in that job: academic medicine.

I love Charlie. And I don't think he wrote anything about Houston that isn't true. Even the drugs, early on.

I had a friend who booked talent for SNL and he told me about her being a lesbian in the 80s. And then about the drugs. This was when she still had Clive Davis's sheen on her, as someone who would never have sex, much less do drugs.

Why would the first mainstream black female superstar have a similar catalogue to long dead back of the bus singers or 80 year old women like Aretha and Streisand? That's not what Whitney did. She was gospel infused POP with some light R&B arias. The most perfect and powerful and (subjectively) beautiful recorded pop voice of all time. But Whitney could sing her songs even better LIVE. Her music career shook the globe in 1985 when you were already 45 charlie. No free base or joyous dancing for you. Mrs. Onassis would not approve!

Everybody did drugs in 1986 charlie. I read about it. Whitney had other problems. If she were as cold and mean and selfish as Streisand or Aretha, she'd probably still be alive. Her catalogue? Nobody who loves the sound and joy of music talks that way. Whitney's songs evoke excitement and pain and awestruck visceral reactions still. She gains new fans every day. No one under 60 knows who Streisand is and most of them don't like her.

First mainsteam black female superstar ?

You reveal yourself to be YOUNG and an idiot.

Fans are so tedious.

It's hard to criticize Houston's voice (except later), but no one should champion her catalog. It is filled with bland garbage that reflected Clive Davis' tastes -- which were old, white and very Adult Contemporary.

Diana Ross and Tina Turner did not breakthrough the way that Whitney did. Don't be disingenuous. I am young but you are wrong. Bessie? As in Smith? Was she banned on MTV? Is she the most awarded female singer of all time? Did she star as THE romantic female lead in hit movies. Does she have the greatest selling soundtrack of all time, the biggest selling gospel album of all time and the number one selling single of all time. Bessie? Barbra? Diana? Aretha? No.

Adult Contemporary. Huh, well at the beginning. Have you heard I'm Your Baby Tonight or My Love is Your Love albums? Whitney broke away from Clive's control to some degree. Whatever she sang had soul regardless.

Streisand is in the easy listening for grandma 49 cent bin. And it still hurts the ears.

OMG! We now have a Whitbot and a Janbot. We have a complete set.

It's just silly to say that Diana Ross didn't breakout like Whitney did. Diana Ross was a HUGE star with mainstream (white) audiences.

Indeed, Whitney Houston was able to have the career she had thanks to Diana Ross, who was also a charismatic black woman who sang songs produced for white audiences.

R243- she had a wonderful voice and recorded some wonderful pop. Aretha has done everything and there probably wouldn’t be Whitney without her. Re brought together gospel R & B and pop brilliantly and Whitney would be first to acknowledge. Has nothing to do with age. Ever catch Re singing Nessen Dorma at the Grammys? Did you see her kill Natural Woman in DC a few years ago (Kennedy Awards) well into her 70s?

Re was/is a very difficult woman- I’ve seen her walk out of concerts. VWhitney was too- part of what I did not talk about in her dealing with Tony Chase- she was impossible in 1986.. Everybody did not do drugs in the 80s- I was there. They killed Whitney when she should have been in her prime. I’m not trashing her- it’s fact. He catalogue of music does not come close to Aretha- and that made me very sad. Long before Whitney died her recording and performing career were over- it was sad.

What Whitbot says about Houston live is absolutely true. I saw her on her first tour and she was amazing to listen to. But we did make fun of her self-conscious dancing.

Listen Charlie. Can we agree on this one thing? Whitney said in an interview...."There will never be another Aretha, there will never be another Barbra and there won't be another me."

I'm surprised charlie doesn't claim Whitney was straight because she made a pass at him - just like all of the others.

Charlie doesn't believe that Whitney said that. Because Barbra and Aretha never acknowledged Houston as their equal. You can't possess the vocal brilliance and communicative presence of Whitney Houston and not know your worth. She knew in whose company she belonged. Bless the child.

Listen R240 her voice has turned to shit. If you can't hear it then your eardrums have been blasted to hell from all the garbage you have been listening to for decades.

Even a friend of mine who considers her some sort of saint went to her Barclay's concert and said the voice is gone but she was happy she went and spent hundreds of dollars just to have seen her live.

You can't hear that's she's all over the place trying to make all kinds of compensations and adjustments to simulate what she thinks it's supposed to sound like?

I heard her at the Garden in the early 90s and I was surprised at how terrific her voice still sounded. Now even her biggest admirers who have some sort of perspective admit she needs to retire.

You clearly are one of those deranged fans who thinks their idol can do no wrong.

R250 for what it's worth, the Whitney woman was the most conventionally attractive

Judy always judy

Mr god she was pretty R255 wha the he’ll happened between that and meet me in saint Louis in the early forties she was stunning it’s like her bones structure changed

Boy she was pretty but I'm gay so I don't know if I'm one to judge.

After all 5 star pussyhound Rooney didn't find her sexually attractive.

Barbra could be very sexy and was able to project a quality that Judy never could:

FUCKABILITY.

r258 you consider that fuckable.. eek

R258 are you a gay man? If so I don't think you are qualified to decide a woman's fuckability factor.

I think she looks sensational there but I don't know of any straight men who think she's somebody they would have fucked. And honestly I have bisex fantasies but I could never imagine putting her into one of them.

Judy garland was a sort of sex symbol right? I mean she had great legs

r259 I'd rather fuck a neo-vagina.

[quote]Judy garland was a sort of sex symbol right?

Ur, no. She was attractive early on, but never sexy. Then, she suddenly became an old woman.

For example, she looks ridiculous in A Star is Born playing the ingenue. Had she looked like she did in Meet Me in St. Louis, it would have worked.

SHE was beautiful in the vearlh early 40s but in 1944 it’s like her face caved in her bone structure changed and she forever looked like an old lady

Judy during her Divine Years:

I bet you Lana turner LOVED it though she doesn’t look to hot either

Garland wasn't a sex symbol in the va-va-voom sense of the word. She parodied that type; during WWII she was the girl next door singing to the troops about meeting them when they returned home. Keeping the homefires burning. They loved her for that.

NEITHER was overly sexy. Barbra - even with her push-up bra - not sexy. Gay men may disagree.

Barbra looked nice like a troll in makeup, good voice though

BUUUMMMOOOPPPP