KATE SPADE SUICIDE, PART TWO

Thank you,

I just read something that may explain the husband and being at home at the time of her death.

That he was in his own apartment, because he moved out - not theirs - and perhaps some articles are incorrect.

[quote]You don't need to know and you cannot know, you were not there. It's not about you. It's about the best way that her sister knew how to deal with the devastating news - and she did it in a way that felt honest to HER

You don't know her, either! We don't know Kate and we do not know her sister...but one can question why the sister would say negative things about her sister to a newspaper. And take her comments in that context.

Yes, that could be it, R1

Op, a little "DL Household Rules": please post the previous thread's link, SVP -

I would have, R4, but it closed before I could do it and I couldn't get back in!

Op/R5 = DL Newbie, just sayin'.

No, OP is not a newbie at all - I thought one of you guys would start the thread, but none of you did!

R2, I don't know her. You don't know her. But her sister did know her and her honesty is closer to anything that you or I can come up with. What you label as "being negative" (because, I presume, it does not fit into your idea of grieving or behaving in public) I see as being honest in a moment of grief and shock.

Can we give the sister the benefit of the doubt, that in her deep, sudden grief, she said what she said, not to trash her sister, but to share something of her struggle?

Kate Spade Suicide Part One here

You don't know her, either - so why believe what she said R8?

We know she was indiscreet at the very least...

Still R8 it's too soon for her to speak so publicly about her sister.

I would like to thank neatniks among us who start second threads and post links to the first.

Thanks

We're going in circles, R10. Let's say you ask: why do you believe? Then I ask you: Why do you disbelieve?

Where does that get us?

[quote]Still [R8] it's too soon for her to speak so publicly about her sister.

Maybe. Or maybe it helped her at that moment and that's why she did it. I can't judge this woman. I can't judge anyone in such deep state of grief.

The end of her sister's statement explains it all:

[quote]She was a dear little person.[/quote]

So THAT'S how she was able to hang from a doorknob!

You are judging Kate if you automatically believe the sister

Well, you can get ahead of the story with the real explanation, or you can wait for people in the press to speculate, the chattering classes to gossip.

Two philosophies: both have their points.

Well, shit. I ruined my joke. I can never show my face again. My doorknob is calling me.

So say there is a side piece and the husband really was leaving her for someone else...

There's no way in hell that she killed herself just to fuck over the husband and the side piece, but the fact is that she's posthumously royally fucked them over! She's stuck them both with a traumatized teenager who's going to spend the next several decades accusing them of killing her mother, and stuck her husband with the suspicion that he killed her. Hell, I'm suspicious, lots of us are suspicious, any sensible person knows that the world is full of people who 'd rather be the widow than the ex-spouse.

Kate Spade's Husband Was Reportedly Apartment Shopping Amid 'Relationship Problems' Prior to Her Death

I'm not judging Kate, R15. I have a lot of sympathy for her, especially after reading her sister's statement.

The sister's comments could be read as judgemental

.......

The husband's face could be read as judgmental.

I didn't read them like that, especially in the context in which they were written.

The majority of posts about Kate Spade's suicide here on DL are judgemental; towards the husband, the daughter, the sister.

............

Fuck the tacky husband, daughter, and sister.

No graciousness and nouveau AF.

I agree, R27

Classy guy at R27 telling a grieving family "fuck you."

The BODY LANGUAGE in the photo in R19's post. Yikes!

It appears his hands/arms are positioned behand his back, in the effort to prevent physical contact with her; she, leaning into his shoulder, leaning her head toward him.

R29 is a WebsleuthFrau.

WON’T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN???!!!

The husband is such a type.

Again, for all you bitches complaining about the sister, she was drugged while talking to the paper. Go back and read the story.

So what, r33?

She’s trash , and we can think what we like.

The husband is unsmiling in just about every photo

Andy was home when she died.

Was the suicide note handwritten or typed?

You don't think she's trash, R34. You think everyone is trash. That's why you are here. To trash people. It makes you life a little more bearable, doesn't it?

Some people here are real twats

Oh, you can frau and cunt at me all you want, R34.

I've looked at your posting history in this thread and the original one. You're not normal.

"What time is it, I have to go to bed," said the geezer. (Click if you can't see the whole picture)

[quote]one can question why the sister would say negative things about her sister to a newspaper

The part where she claimed that her sister had bipolar disorder? If it’s true, it’s indiscreet, but it’s not a negative thing to say about a person.

Shocking!

Of course it is, R41, and we do not even know if it is true, R41! And who announces that to the paper when someone has died whether it is true or not?

....

Where was it said that her daughter told her she's done nothing with her life?

.....

[quote]Of course it is, [R41], and we do not even know if it is true, [R41]!

What reason do you have to believe that her sister is a liar?

[quote]And who announces that to the paper when someone has died whether it is true or not?

A grieving person. A person in shock. A person struggling with her own feelings. A person under some heavy sedatives.

Kate Spade said it herself in an interview , R45 (the link is in the original thread).

So of course you take a comment out of context to call a tween a "cunt"

ROFLMAO.

At least tweens have the excuse of immaturity - what's your excuse for being a twat?

[quote]R2 one can question why the sister would say negative things about her sister to a newspaper. And take her comments in that context.

What did she say that was negative? She didn't call her a bad mother, or say she was weak in any way.

Her comments (below) weren't hurtful, or critical of Ms. Spade.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[quote] "I will say this was not unexpected by me. I'd flown out to Napa and NYC several times in the past 3-4 years to help her to get the treatment she needed (inpatient hospitalization). She was always a very excitable little girl and I felt all the stress/pressure of her brand (KS) may have flipped the switch where she eventually became full-on manic depressive . . . .

[quote] "I'd come so VERY close to getting her to go in for treatment (to the same place Catherine Zeta-Jones went for her successful bipolar treatment program). I'd spoken with them on the phone (not telling them exactly who the patient would be). They agreed to fly in and talk with her and take her with them to the treatment center.

[quote] "She was all set to go — but then chickened out by morning. I even said I (would) go with her and be a 'patient' too (she liked that idea) I said we could talk about it all — our childhood, etc. That I could help her fill in any blanks she might have . . . .

[quote] "That seemed to make her more comfortable, and we'd get sooo close to packing her bags, but — in the end, the 'image' of her brand (happy-go-lucky Kate Spade) was more important for her to keep up. She was definitely worried about what people would say if they found out."

[quote] Spade's husband and business partner, Andy Spade, assisted in trying to coax her into treatment, making plans on how it would work and who would take care of their daughter, Frances Beatrix, known as Bea, Saffo said. "Nothing ever came of it."

[quote] "After numerous attempts, I finally let go," Saffo wrote. "Sometimes you simply cannot SAVE people from themselves! One of the last things she said to me was, 'Reta, I know you hate funerals and don't attend them, but for me would you PLEASE come to MINE, at least. Please!' I know she perhaps had a plan, but she insisted she did not."

[quote] Saffo said her sister was at a hotel in Santa Fe when she saw the television news report of Robin Williams' death.

[quote] "We were freaked out/saddened," Saffo said, "but she kept watching it and watching it over and over. I think the plan was already in motion even as far back as then."

[quote] Saffo ended her email about her sister:

[quote] "She was a dear little person. So dear — so kind, so funny. I'll miss our 6-7-hr-long phone conversations between NY and NM.

[quote] "I'm off to bed for a good cry."

R50 is quite the naive frau.

Are you Midwestern, dear?

Has Elsa Klensch issued a statement? Jeanne Beker?

Someone doesn't get it re the sister.

So , anyway, this would have been a classic Vanity Fair article when it was a better magazine.

[quote] [bold] Kate Spade's Husband Was Reportedly Apartment Shopping Amid 'Relationship Problems' Prior to Her Death

Me, R52

Andy Spade seems to think smiling is off limits. Just like Posh Spice. Every photograph I have seen of him is depressing as hell.

[quote]R10 We know [the sister] was indiscreet at the very least...

Fuck you. Who are you to decide if this grown woman is "indiscreet" or not.

She doesn't need your approval...or your enabling desire to sweep unpleasant problems under the carpet.

A very sad day for fashion. #rip

The husband looks something like Stephen King.

That is disturbing.

[quote] Fuck you. Who are you to decide if this grown woman is "indiscreet" or not.

Oh, for fuck's sake, are you familiar with the concept of a datalounge discussion thread? You know ... .people hang out and share their opinions and judgments, many of which are less than kind ... sometimes we mock the recently deceased or criticize their survivors ... that kind of thing. You needn't agree that Kate's sister was indiscreet, but what's the point of getting all bent out of shape about it?

R55, thanks for the clip. I was reminded of that scene as well when I was reading about the three UES women who defenestrated themselves.

Also, Teresa may have gotten a raise, but she sure as hell lost her job.

Her recent designs seemed to hint at some unhappiness in her marriage.

Damn, Stockard Channing--when she had it, she had it.

In fairness to El Creepo, both scenarios are plausible. He could have another side piece, and r539 on the last thread was interesting. (Was it a hint--I don't know the guy on the left?) However, that could've come after years of living with a BPD wife. If he did in fact co-found and develop the company, then a 50/50 split wasn't unreasonable.

Clueless Flyover side note: is there such a thing as a straight handbag designer?

Her line of shoes that she partnered on w/the husband are terrible. You can see his input ruined the shoe. He needed to stay out of things. The heels were an architectural input of his and don't match the shoe. In the interview she said she always preferred shoes but her shit needed to resemble the Italian shoes @ Bergdorfs & Needless Markup. There's your standard unless you're a Rockstar who goes to Italy and gets them personally made, the costliest shoes are those featured @ 2 dept. Stores above.

He seemed like a load. She probably suffered from post-partum, never recovered & then hit a nasty menopause. They can be brutal. One must add in the loss of sex drive links to the loss of life drive. Why estrogen is a bazillion $ business. You will never sleep normally during menopause. Even w/AC & fan full blast, constant shifting to cool yourself down, then warm up from the sweating is like having the flu for months. Can't imagine what life would be like for women back in the days. Some had to be committed to hospitals & mental institutions. They've found it mostly untrue but estrogen therapy is worth the higher probability of cancer. Seems like she had a hormone problem mixed with drinking. Not really a mental problem. I say this because she has a track record of being successful at her own merits.

People always forget about the hormone problem. She didn't need a detox/rehab as much as she needed a damned good ENDOCRINOLOGIST.

Detox from drinking & pills, if needed Hormones leveled out by endocrinologist Short rehab stint

This really is why people are having a hard time wrapping their heads around it. I take OTC vitamin supplements DHEA, basically testosterone. If I miss calculate I become irrationally aggressive and angry. I know it's from too much DHEA but still cannot talk/think myself out of how I feel. Reach for a little weed is the only solution. She didn't have the luxury of someone like me around to get down to brass tacks. Why I only date extremely wealthy people.

[quote]R35 The husband is unsmiling in just about every photo.

That's because when he shows his teeth, he looks like a gopher .

R66, wait, why do you only date extremely wealthy people?

R40, that “geezer” is Glenn O’Brien, The Style Guy (also R.I.P.)

The sister sounds "BPD". He looks weird.

r66 you think she didn't know about menopause and didn't have doctors available to prescribe hormones for her? You are projecting your problems onto her.

Yeah, big time

I hear her body bag was GORGEOUS!

Now David Mimran and Kimberley Newport-Mimran can take over the fashion world.

I love r66.

Agreed, r70.

R68, bc I believe where there's a will, there's a way. I will stop at nothing to correct or ease a problem for those I love. An awesome researcher, exhausting every possible solution. I will never leave your side. The same with my pets. My little charges.

If need be, hospital staff will be monitored, bribed with gifts like chocolates et. al. They will never predict when I will arrive.

Besides my many other gifts and talents. I'm the best friend you'll ever have if I choose you. I'm not just gonna give this away to anyone.

Well that took a turn...

R77 is Claus von Bulow.

Sunny loved chocolates.

Very good point about menopause, r66. And hormones. We all know how hormones effect trans (it def doesn't make them any saner/calmer). I had a boss once who was either going through slightly early menopause or maybe she just had something wrong with her uterus but for whatever reason she got to the point where she needed a hysterectomy. She was manic, paranoid and frequently irate in the months before her surgery, then as soon as the uterus was out she was markedly changed for the better, but shortly after that, once her natural hormonal balance shifted post-surgery, she became absolutely berserk and intolerable to be around. Thankfully her docs put her on estrogen supplements et voila! She evened out again and became a normal person. Raging hormones make teenagers do impulsive or stupid or violent things (or just become consumed with meaningless drama) and lower-than-normal hormone levels can cause depression. When a woman of menopausal age dies by suicide, it makes sense to look to imbalanced hormones as a factor that precipitated her death.

I read r66/r77's posts in the voice of Gustav from Grand Budapest Hotel, and it's divine.

the husband pings in every pic i see of him

We want the husband's assets frozen IMMEDIATELY, until our Fireside Sleuths Club gets to the [italic] bottom [/italic] of this.

Make it so.

And someone look for the g-damn WHORE hubby was house-hunting with.

Her sister says that Kate, Sis, and Hubby were all in agreement that Kate needed another stay at an inpatient facility, but then Kate backed out. Hubby and Sis could have had her involuntarily committed, especially since she was saying things like, “Promise you’ll come to my funeral.”

Really R85, you think that assertion is enough to have someone involuntarily committed? Stop displaying your stupidity and don't blame the survivors.

[quote]R85 Hubby and Sis could have had her involuntarily committed, especially since she was saying things like, “Promise you’ll come to my funeral.”

I can't just call authorities or a mental ward and say, "My sister's said alarming things, lock her up."

Maybe hubby would have a better chance, but he was distancing himself from Kate (looking for a new home), and surely didn't want to taint the family's brand name...so he did nothing.

The daughter will never forgive him. Might go lez.

Here’s a more current photo of Frances Beatrix

I mean, I had a friend who killed herself at the end of last year. (I mentioned it in part 2.)

During 2017, her parents, who lived in another state, along with the help of her ex-boyfriend, who lived in her neighborhood and dropped by daily to take care of the dogs and of her, had had her Baker Acted eight times.

People get tired. They never know if the ramblings are indicative of a real threat; if they should put the family member through the trauma of being sectioned (and it IS traumatic); if maybe she just needs a little time to herself and it will blow over (as it sometimes does).

This is a very difficult situation.

Sorry..I mentioned it in part one.

R88 When did Andy steal Boy George's HAT ? ?

R43 it's actually face saving to say someone had an illness rather than heartbroken and rejected by their husband or child, etc

R71, you look like the ass you are. Trying to seem worldly. I got a double mention on one post. Can't wait to hear it @ R81. TY. Someone else said they loved me.

You're probably R86 as well. All you need to claim is the person is a danger to themselves and perhaps others. She has a child. Any NY cop is jumping on that, even if it isn't true. They can't take the chance. They bring you involuntarily to a psych ward (jail or killed if u get feisty) & they have a team of psyche people determine if the emergency call is valid. When it is not, they feed you & treat u really well on the ward. They call a cab & pay for it. Some staff hug & kiss u as you leave. If u are in fact off, they can hold u for are few more days. NY cops are dramatist, jumping on any excuse to March around like Hitler's henchmen. Shooting an innocent dog to death, shaking it's tail to greet u is nothing especially in Manhattan.

71,to be loved, be lovable u miserable, lost deluded person unconsciously doing yourself in every time. Time to shift gears, my hopefully soon friend.

I believe that in upscale buildings most people desire the staff to avoid calling 911 if possible. It brings publicity. The housekeeper may have thought she was just passed out or had an accident and was being discreet.

R92, u joking? Only an illness would make someone respond in such a way. A normal person will go looking for their own adventure especially with her wealth and lifestyle.

What the hell is wrong with u? Stop playing Devil's Advocate to every post. Your questioning doesn't follow a logical mind. Get your act together. HINT: Form your statement in a more naive questioning way. Life will go much easier for you. This is your 2nd free coachesque advice in 1 week. Let it be your last.

R86 and R87, you guys are right that I don’t know how someone gets involuntarily committed, but no, I didn’t think it was as easy as calling 911 and saying, “Send the men in the white coats to come get so-and-so.” I thought (and I could very well be wrong) that since Hubby, Sis, and other interested parties must have proof of Kate’s condition and her various voluntary inpatient treatment stays, their requests would be taken seriously. Nor am I saying, “Shame on them for not trying to have her involuntarily committed.” As R89 (thank you for your thoughtful response) said, it’s hard to know what to do. Maybe it was common for Kate to hint at suicide.

R96, trying to distract from being called out on your stupidity ain't gonna work with us. Just your uneducated, old queen comment of getting men (no women, right?) in the white coats shines like a beacon & is a dead giveaway about what/who u are. The police cuff and remove a person to a hospital or jail. Sometimes jail follows afterwards. We're not living in the movies concerning a time when white coats & huge state hospitals existed. You're not in reality whatever your age. Keep up or shut the fuck up.

r93 oh wow, a double mention, I guess you know more than the people around her and her doctors. If only you could have been in her life she would have taken some hormones and been perfectly happy. Too bad no NYC doctors have heard about this menopause you are an expert on. Too bad she was incapable of ever picking up a book or searching the internet.

R93, if a person is famous, well-connected, and wealthy, the cops are NOT going to "jump on it" and drag that person off to the psych ward against their will. No, that sort of treatment is only for those who can't afford top lawyers or ruin a cop's career by having a word with the mayor, people like Spade only get put on 5150 holds if they're holding a knife to a baby's throat, and even then the cops will tread lightly and hope the rich fucker sobers up.

And that's the thing about being rich and famous, nobody can make you do anything you don't want to do, even something that's in your best interest.

R93 But Kate Spade was a Park Avenue white woman, a multi, multi millionaire. Cops and institutions tend to tread lightly with those types, because, if angered, they can sue to the ends of the earth.

No one was going to put her away without her consent.

R99, this is MannyHanny, u hilljack! Being rich & famous juices up our cops bc they could never even breathe this person's air off duty in the RW. What the hell is wrong w/u?

R101 has never heard of lawyers.

Let me add that if police have the backing of family, it's a given free-for-all. Cuffed, taken to psychiatric intake. They'll make the call. Police can't be sued w/the family behind them especially if a child is in the scene. Money, status have nothing to do with it. If she kills herself/others bc cops let it go, then u have a lawsuit. Can u not think logically. You need to prove that to professors to obtain a university degree. Gave yourself away again. I'm done.

Hmm..I guess that's why we hear of so many famous people getting put on psychiatric hold.

I hope so, R103, because all you argumentative dicks are terribly boring.

Actually r4, that's something that's only done on WebSleuths and by the ghouls from that site who have invaded this one, like scabies. We do not link to previous threads. We are not helpful and we are not helpless. And I hate you.

R82, Maybe it's the way he buttons his too-small jackets to cinch in his waist.

We are right on topic R105. The topic that she wasn't surrounded by astute, truly caring people. Yes, they needed to haul her off to psychiatric. The husband & sister could have made the case. Husband didn't care, sister was a Ditz. Going in as a patient yourself,sis? How are u going to defend her rights & ensure every possible test was run? Could be Lupus, could be Lyme Disease, could be a thyroid. Could be wrong psychiatric meds. Could be MS.

If she didn't have a track record of a well liked, very successful person then becomes a different person after childbirth at 43, then menopause, you look deeper.

This "menopause" talk is totally gross, sexist and stupid. There is someone who likes to talk about "menopause" on every thread.

There was obviously something wrong in the relationship; he was going to leave her or something. It could have been an unhappy marriage for a long time, which would have made it complicated to split since they were the company as well. Like most suicides she probably did not have someone she could really talk to, it seems.

As some else said, the business of having her committed against her will probably was not a real option. That doesn't even really work for the raving lunatics. They get them, they get locked up for a couple of days then are dumped on the street again.

[quote]it's actually face saving to say someone had an illness rather than heartbroken and rejected by their husband or child, etc

It isn't "face-saving" to say someone was "bipolar" and some of the other things she said. Saying someone was "heartbroken" would actually have been better, but really the best thing would be to say nothing - just that it was really sad and would like her privacy at this time etc like most people say. Or say something in tribute to her.

We have a bonafide Live Laugh Love plaque frau at r77! What other sayings do you hold dear?

There are two competing implicit theories of blame at play -

1) KS was always nuts & this was the culmination of her mental illness - her husband did all he could to help her & is not only blameless but in fact a victim

2) her husband was an asshole who dragged her down a la Sylvia Plath - she was his victim & he is to blame

The sister’s statement supports theory 1 & thus undermines theory 2. Most people probably prefer theory 2 for its literary merit - the clear presence of martyred good & surviving evil. Hence the sister becomes a cunt.

Of course the reality is surely a combination of the two, but that’s not a satisfying story.

He was divorcing her

R112 = Olwyn H.

Something about this story is just very sad to me. She seemed like a genuinely good person with a lot of demons.

Her brother-in-law David Spade speaks out.

David Spade mourns sister-in-law Kate Spade: 'I still can't believe i

"Katy at my book signing. I love this pic of her. So pretty. I dont think everyone knew how fucking funny she was... Its a rough world out there people. Try to hang on"

Very sad, esp for the child. She has no sibs, and only the father, who she may or may not assign some responsibility to. Did he try to get her help?

I want to feel sympathy for the husband, bi-polar people are HELL to live with and menopause could have exacerbated things. Still - why did he not get her help? Those Spade men have a vibe.

I think of other celeb couples where one is known to be bi-polar - Michael Douglas did not bail, but got his wife help. Ashlee Simpson bailed on Pete Wentz but he did not off himself, despite a prior attempt. Sinaed has never had anyone there for her and her life is a mess.

Very sad, do not take good mental health for granted. Was the looming divorce more than she was able to cope with?

This whole relationship with the husband has been ugly for many years. I’m the frau who worked with her sister, who also gave you guys a very good breakdown of what was happening, in the previous thread, however, I was dismissed.

Anyhow, I’m talking to people, and it was BAD. Kate had been drinking a lot previous to the suicide, and popping pills.

I have to prepare for a meeting, and will be busy for the rest of the day. I have an extremely busy and filled schedule for the next 36 hours. I have family in from NYC, on top of a crazy deadline at the office.

I will attempt to post tonight about what I’ve been hearing. If not, then I will have some free time tomorrow night.

Carry on.

Yes, post back when you can, R120!

Thanks, Frau -in-the-know!

Is menopause really that big a thing?

^Yes it is.

Trying to get someone committed against there will is almost impossible in most states unless they are in the process of a doing something really crazy. I know, I have tried and was told by NAMI that it was 99% chance the courts would not commit. You have to go to court and plead your case and pray the judge will sign a temporary observation.

R123 is not R120

Thanks R120 - definitely come back.

The husband looks kind of weaselly. Overly tanned and ridiculous glasses. Kate was pretty, she may have been a midwestern frau but she had patrician bone structure. Yes she’d gained a few in recent years but weight can be lost. No dick is worth dying for.

Husband never looks happy. I don't like women at all. especially rich white ones. I say C'est la vie.

I don't think she was a "frau" if she spent her life with design, art and business, plus she was very stylish and had a sense of humor according to what people say.

I wonder where Andy lives.

Hubby does look angry in the photos. You can see the resentment, of something...

Oh, she really is related to David Spade? I thought that was a joke.

He looks insufferable. But she had spent her entire life with him and had probably never been on her own. If he left her for a man (yeah, he pings) her whole sexual self worth would be upended and she might feel like she had lived a lie. They were involved not just as family, but in business. She would presumably have to keep working with him on the Francis Valentine line. Which wasn't doing as well as Kate Spade (which was doing well without her and with nameless designers) and that may be why she felt she was a fraud, that the Kate Spade success was just a fluke. I don't see her sister as being cruel. Mental health needs to come out of the closet. If she killed herself she had problems, the sister is just stating what they were. I wonder if her happy, colorful, sort of adolescent designs were her way of making herself feel mentally better and then ended up masking her mental problems.

[quote]Is menopause really that big a thing?

As someone who's currently experiencing it (as are many of my female friends), NO. It can be unpleasant and annoying, to be sure, but it does not impair your thinking, turn social drinkers into alcoholics, or make you want to hang yourself from the proverbial doorknob. I suppose it's possible that menopause was a minor aggravating factor in Kate Spade's mental health issues, but I very much doubt it was anything approaching a primary cause. Some of you guys just assume anything related to the lady parts must be a psycho horror show!

^^lol^^

R120 has a VERY BUSY SCHEDULE, Y’ALL!!!!!

The poster from the first thread mentioned Kate felt like a fraud. I imagine that when people are telling you "I love your designs!" and you haven't had anything to do with the brand or designs for many years (not to mention the fact that many of the current designs and aesthetic are really not Kate's aesthetic) it would get to be irksome and you probably don't even know how to respond anymore.

When you sell your company and your name goes off with it, and you don't even have that control, that could feel very strange. I can see wanting to change my name, like she did, if it was attached to some tacky designs -- like t-shirts and bangles with silly sayings on them, or cheap bags at the outlets with dongle things hanging from them -- things she'd never design or endorse when she was building her brand. The brand used to be really great under Kate and Andy, and for several years after, but it's definitely been "Coach-ified" in recent years. For a mass brand, it's still decent quality, but it's no longer sophisticated.

I also hate to think that the daughter, who is surrounded by New York's richest kids, could have been griping that mom and dad were dumb to sell so early for so little, when it's a multi-billion dollar brand now. I doubt that was the case, but it's something I'd likely have done when I was a shitty teenager because I was awful to my mom.

R136, she said that that she had an "extremely busy and filled schedule for the next 36 hours." Work deadlines and family visiting and all that. I look forward to reading R120's insights.

Yes, the weirdly self-important level of detail she provided about her activities was hilarious. "I won't be on DL again until tonight, but I'll post an update then," would have sufficed.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

^^I meant not unexpected.

R134, I agree! There is someone obsessed with "menopause" on this an other threads - I don't know if it is a lost Websleuths person or a male who has no idea about it. Either way, the person sounds gross, stupid, and sexist.

Re R140 - HA! I knew it!

Why no statement from Andy?

From article:

[quote]Kate Spade's family is 'disgusted' by her older sister's detailed comments about her battle with mental illness which they say show that she 'didn't know' the designer 'at all'.

Yeah....she was the very [italic] picture [/italic] of rosy mental health. Why, the cheery red scarf she picked to hang herself with PROVES it!.

From statement:

[quote]We loved Kate dearly and will miss her terribly.

In fact, we missed her more than ever this last year, after we ditched her and moved into a separate place.

Well, obviously, Kate wasn't the picture of good mental health, but if the sister truly hadn't spoken to her in 10 years, yet is going around claiming she'd spent tons of time in NYC and Napa over the last few years trying to get Kate into a hospital, she is possibly even more nuts.

Yes, that would be odd. It seems unlikely someone would outright lie about something like that, though.

On a side note, I wonder if she's in her sister's will. I would hope so. It would be so sad to have a sibling worth millions who finally left you out in the cold.

The sister and Kate were forced to do double-headed dildo shows for wealthy Kansas City businessmen while they laughed and threw dollar bills at them.

They both ended up addicts: Kate to booze, pills and kitsch, Sis to booze, pills and attention.

R149, marry me

I wonder if hubby had showered the boy toy / mistress with Kate Spade bags and shoes for years?

To the people slamming her for her note: let's think about this. She was on the verge of killing herself when she wrote it. She was in an unbelievable amount of mental pain and distress. And what exactly could she have written that would have "made it ok?" Nothing.

Thomas Joiner, a leading expert on suicide, has noted the majority of people who kill themselves don't leave notes. He writes, "The relative rarity of suicide notes reveals the state of mind of those about to die by suicide. To say that persons who die by suicide are lonely at the time of their deaths is a massive understatement. Loneliness, combined with alienation, isolation, rejection, and ostracism, is a better approximation. Still, it does not fully capture the suicidal person’s state of mind. In fact, I believe it is impossible to articulate the phenomenon, because it is so beyond ordinary experience. Notes are rare because most decedents feel alienated to the point that communication through a note seems pointless or does not occur to them at all."

Speak for yourself, R134. Im not the person who brought up menopause but I’m in menopause and it’s huge for me. Everyone is different. Weight gain, then hot flashes 24/7 even though I’m taking hormones. I also lost 1” of height despite calcium supplements, a good diet, exercise and all that. Plus I gained another 10lbs from the hormones. Then there’s hair loss. Redistribution of fat (aka “where the fuck did my flat belly go and whose abdomen/ass took its place?). Difficulty staying asleep thanks to night sweats. It’s the body heat that affects me the most and it seems unsolvable.

Something else, that is hard to describe — when I became menopausal it’s like I had been on a soft fluffy cloud all my life that had cushioned and protected me. I apologized all the time for no reason before menopause - “I’m sorry, I have to disagree with you.” “I’m sorry, cam I ask you a question?” I was terrified of offending someone, or that I wouldn’t be liked by someone. After the loss of estrogen and other hormones, all of that flew away. No more automatic apologies at the beginning of sentences. No more smiling at people so they’d like me. No more making lame excuses or accepting others’ lame excuses. In other words, I became just like a man. People don’t like women who are just like men. But I can’t help it, I’m all out of estrogen.

When I heard the title of Mia Farrow’s book “What Falls Away,” I thought it was perfect for describing what happens to many menopausal women. So many things just fall away...

Please create a separate menopause thread. It’s not something we want to waste our beautiful minds on.

R153, I'm having the same issues you are with body heat and the appalling onset of saggy, blobby "lady body" (as one friend calls it) and sure, it sucks, but it's far from literally driving me out of my mind or making me suicidal. (And as for your second paragraph, that's a good change, as far as I'm concerned. The less I give a fuck about offending people, the better.) The attitude of one or two obsessed posters that, "well, she was MENOPAUSAL, so all bets are off!" is bizarre.

Eldergay at R154 probably doesn’t even appreciate Fibrowarriers, either!

The sister sounds like a nutty narcissist, not surprised that Kate didn't speak to her for a decade

Joining the Speculation Wagon here, but it's possible Andy gave her an ultimatum (Go to rehab or we're through) and she called his bluff. He found a place to live and was gong to take the daughter and have full/primary custody. It tipped the scales and she went over the edge. Would certainly explain the "Ask Daddy!" comment in the suicide note.

Cunt, thy name is DAUGHTER:

[quote]"I've never missed any of her events, but I know one is coming up in February and I'll be gone," Kate lamented. "I have to be at a personal appearance. This weekend, I went away. My daughter asked me when I'd be back and I told her tomorrow night and she said, 'Why so early?'"

[quote]R152 "...it is impossible to articulate the phenomenon [in a suicide note], because it is so beyond ordinary experience. "

Jean Seberg's was pretty self-explanatory: [italic]"Forgive me. I can no longer live with my nerves."

All girls that age are cunty, r159, especially to their mothers. The "can't you just get lost?" and "god, you're so stupid and everything you've ever done with your life is stupid" attitudes are par for the course. It's just too bad that Kate was not more able to let it roll off her back and realize that in a few years, it most likely would pass and the daughter would become a civilized human again.

[quote]R158 it's possible Andy gave her an ultimatum ... Would certainly explain the "Ask Daddy!" comment in the suicide note.

If Kate's " [bold] Ask Daddy [/bold] " was meant as a slam, it makes her the ultimate bitter diva icon.

But it might well have meant, [italic]"Ask Daddy...he'll explain that these insecurities and fears existed in me long before you entered the scene."

The husband really doesn't look like someone who'd pull you out of a depression...

Told ya the sister was a cunty and trashy grifter.

I done told ya.

This shot from the new product launch has a certain Sylvia Plath-like [italic]ennui....

I approve of that note, r160.

Quite chic, really.

R120 is the crazy, verbose, and self-aggrandizing sister!

"The Bell Jar Collection..."

The sister sounds crazy, like Markle-sister crazy. I wonder if she will try to put out a "tell all" book.

R162, that's the read I got on second look too. Confirmation from dad. It is ambiguous though. Seems like just a dashed note.

To R120, for the love of the Lord, come back to us! We don't dismiss you! We revere insiders!

About R134, menopause is different for everyone.

Now, not having gone through menopause, I can tell you what I have inferred from menstruating: for some women, their period is only a bloody disgusting mess--but there is no pain, no depression, no aching, no sore joints or backs, no bloating, no (ahem..) gastrointestinal disturbances, etc. On the other side of the spectrum, you have women who experience such terrible pain they can't leave bed, have to miss work, spend all day in tears. I know the day before my period (which is regular) because of the intense depression and paranoia and weeping (and I'm a happy-go-lucky gal usually).

In menopause, all this hormonal shit is just amped up. Some women will do fine naturally; some women will REALLY not do fine.

[quote] Trying to get someone committed against there will is almost impossible in most states unless they are in the process of a doing something really crazy. I know, I have tried and was told by NAMI that it was 99% chance the courts would not commit. You have to go to court and plead your case and pray the judge will sign a temporary observation.

Getting someone committed is different than having someone Baker Acted (72 hour supervision). When you have someone committed (really, declared incompetent, then you have them committed to a facility), you have to go to court because you are stripping them of their rights to make decisions for themselves--including financial, medical, etc. That's not what we're talking about.

(Actually, having worked with the mentally ill early in my career, profound schizophreniacs, I can tell you that none of the ones I worked with were declared incompetent--though they certainly were low-functioning. This is something that is usually done when the incompetent person has a lot of money, and their family is afraid they are going to piss it away on a million cans of tuna or some shit.)

***irregular, not regular. Whoops

[quote]R171 This is something that is usually done when the incompetent person has a lot of money, and their family is afraid they are going to piss it away on a million cans of tuna or some shit.

Listen, some of us LIKE tuna! A lot!

The whole discussion on getting someone committed or supervision or whatever is moot because the sister was full of shit. Now to get back on topic, does Andy shop for his belts at the same store as cockgobbler Aaron Shock?

Marry me, r174!

R174 There's nothing disproving anything the sister wrote.

I'd think she was one of the people in this world who understood her sister the best.

It appears the inventory on Frances Valentine is selling out.

So R 120 which post was yours in the first thread?

BtW: i am starting menopause...and feel like i am going to have a crying jag daily.

Menopause doesn't turn you suicidal.

Lack of resilience does. The inability to bounce back. Suicide is caused by chemical imbalances coupled with stressors you can't overcome.

That's why treatment based in medical relief and behavior therapy have the best rates for recovery.

Who is Andy trying to emulate? I can't put my finger on it but he reminds of some older gay guy (writer?) who was patrician bred, old money, intellectual, from the northeast. He just comes off as such a poser.

Do the Spades (Andy and David) come from old money, or did they both claw their way up from flyover country?

Stop with the menopause shit! I am another one on her going through it and it doesn't cause mass suicide. It's like childbirth, all women throughout centuries have dealt with it. Without going postal. Jeez, if you are one where it's bad go to your doctor or a therapist.

Why though r176? If you google KS you can find pics of her with her sister Eve, but nothing of her and Reta, the family says they are estranged from Reta, why would they all lie? Eve has an online bio that leaves Reta out too, so it's not just the Spade brothers making claims. Seems you like her theory and want to believe her.

[quote]I'd think she was one of the people in this world who understood her sister the best.

Not if she hadn't talked to Kate in 10 years. Someone is flagrantly lying, and it could as easily be the sister as the rest of the family.

r182 is hormonal and unhinged and has sewn a necklace made of baby skulls from her job as a night nurse at the maternity ward at the hospital. The administration just thinks those children died of a mystery illness, but THAT IS NOT TRUE.

I don't believe the Spades come from money. I think the dad left the mom and three boys, and then the mom remarried a couple times. One husband was a very cultured doctor.

[,quote] In addition to his brother Andy, David also has a brother named Bryan, who works in construction. The parents of these successful siblings are Judith, who was a writer and magazine editor, and the father worked in ads. Their parents divorced and the three brothers were mainly raised by their mother. According to The Observer, the patriarch of the family would often disappear and sometimes, for months.

In 2009, David, Andy and Bryan’s mother reflected on her kids’ childhoods, saying, “The boys took care of themselves. But they were very good at keeping themselves entertained.” She also stated that, “Andy was very sensitive and loved everything. He was just terribly interested in everything. I think he’s ADD, but I didn’t know that word then. He would have 10 projects going at a time.” Judith Spade was married three times and was living with her third husband in 2009, as reported by The Observer.

r180 the late Dominick Dunne is probably the one you're thinking of.

One of Mom Spade's three husbands - Andy Spade's stepfather - committed suicide when the boys were teens, great affecting them. Their biological father was never really around to rear them.

No, not Dunne. It's the way he is dressed and the glasses. Maybe Thomas Wolfe. I keep thinking all he needs is a little hat.

I'm getting sick of this menopause crap too. Women are less likely to kill themselves - full stop. Especially in middle/older ages. And widows are much less likely to die after losing a husband than men are to die after losing their wives. Women are more resilient than men, when it comes to surviving, due to concerns of being old - or losses. It's just a fact.

They do, after all, live up to eight years longer, depending on the country -- and scientists think at least three of those eight years are innately biological, and not due to poor life choices, which men also do more often than women (drinking, smoking, drug use, impulsivity leading to accidents, etc.) Of course, there are exceptions, but statistics tell the more accurate story.

I read a book once about the Irish having a tendency to mental illness because of the great famine causing epigenetic changes in the unborn and in children, mutations that have been passed down since. Maybe I'll find the book somewhere or the Amazon link, but it was a scientific researcher I believe who investigated this phenomenon. Again, I don't think Ireland is in the top group of countries when it comes to suicide, but that's a separate matter from mental illness, at least to some extent.

Ogden Nash?

Like this?

Sounds like people are offing themselves in droves to get away from Little Andy!

Men die by suicide 3.53x more often than women. White males accounted for 7 of 10 suicides in 2016. The rate of suicide is highest in middle age – white men in particular. By method (2016): Firearms 51%, Suffocation including hanging 26%, Poisoning 15%, Other 8%.

Robert Lowell?

George Plimpton?

Kate Spade website had a tribute to her on the home page. It doesn’t look like Frances Valentine did but a lot of their links are dead, like Meet the Founders.

I think it's Plimpton!

Jeez, that Andy Spade looks just like David.

Wonder if he had serious issues what with having a sort of successful actor brother and all.

Kate's sisters comments so soon are unseemly. If god forbid one of our sisters or brothers killed themselves, I doubt we would commence blathering about it the very same day.

Just shut your mouth sister. For now. There will be plenty of time for your attention whore activities in the future.

[quote]R183 the family says they are estranged from Reta

WHICH side of the family?

Besides which, a sister could still be estranged from “the family” (whoever that is) and remain close to one sibling.

I must agree with the poster who found R120's reference to her "busy schedule" odd.

Why the self/importance? Why is this about you?

Makes me doubt the veracity of R120.

[quote]R186 [his mother] also stated that, “Andy was very sensitive”

Well, we all know what THAT means...

[quote]I got a double mention on one post. Can't wait to hear it @ [R81]. TY. Someone else said they loved me.

Wow, you are crazy.

Don’t think the Spades were old money, probably a range of classes in the family like many depending on mental stability like everyone else. The three brothers were smart and talented and probably had a complex from exposure to wealth in Scottsdale. A friend was from a more working/middle class part of Greenwich and was always weird anout it. But a fascination with “old-moneyness” definitely points to the homosex. Straight men usually don’t obsess about that shit.

[quote]We do not link to previous threads.

Yeah we do, buddy, and have for years, ever since we only had 200 replies per thread.

Don’t forget, David Spade is so unbearable that one assistant attacked him with a taser while he slept.

The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree —

Sorry, but Andy is just so dorky looking in all of these photos.

I can't help remembering how snarky D. Spade was on SNL in his "Hollywood Minute" sketches and Dick Clark receptionist sketches.

Wonder if David used to mock bro and sis in law.

True, R199, but those SOB members of the press are surely harassing poor Reta.

Well?

R201, I was trying to be polite by offering a reason why I couldn’t dish more at that moment. No self importance. I have to remember that even though I feel like I know many of you, I actually do not, and I should be more aware about offering explanations like you’re all my buddies.

I will say this. I’m exhausted, and I’m taking a well deserved nap.

The sister is not lying at all, whatsoever. Everything she wrote is true, and surely Mr. Spade is upset that this was not a controlled message, publicist approved. And just because she wasn’t speaking to Kate’s husband, it does not mean that she was not in touch with her sister. Fuck Andy.

I’ve been thinking about this, and I need to be very careful about what I write. I understand that this is an anonymous website, but I cannot confirm who owns it, etc. I share mutual friends with the deceased, and some business contacts. It may not be a big deal to anyone here, but it obviously is to me.

Also, the most important thing is that there is a little girl. 13 May seem like 23 in Manhattan years, but we all know that 13 is 13. I don’t want to hurt anyone. This is a very fucked up tragedy all the way around, and no one wants to make it worse.

Everything I wrote in the previous thread is what was going on, and the sister later wrote to some paper, where she pretty much says everything I said, in the affirmative, rather than in a way that was presenting a theory, which is the way that I went about it.

Late was a very unhappy lady for a very long time, and she wanted to force her husband to continue in a marriage that has been dead and gone for years. And some of it did have to do with money.

I could easily say that these were both very screwed up people, and they were. However, I have a lot of pity for Kate, because she could not pop her own head out of her own proverbial ass, and see how good she had it, especially without her husband.

I’m going to leave it at that. I wish this family healing, especially the child.

Thanks.

Andy speaks out

R120, thank you very much for coming by. Your contributions are appreciated by those of us in our right minds.

Again, I am sorry that you lost your friend.

R212, Kate and I were not friends. We have friends in common, and associates in common. However, thank you. That was very kind.

From the r211 article:

[quote]“Kate suffered from depression and anxiety for many years....There were personal demons she was battling.”

At the same time, he wants us to believe, “There was no indication, and no warning” (????)

What a DUFUS of a husband!

R213 Of course, we all want to know about Andy’s....er, homosexual tendencies.

Blink once for Yes. Twice for No.

[quote]The sister is not lying at all, whatsoever. Everything she wrote is true, and surely Mr. Spade is upset that this was not a controlled message, publicist approved.

What's odd, though, is that the sister's account is fairly sympathetic to Andy. She talks about how he worked with her to try to get Kate into treatment but Kate always resisted. You could easily come away from it understanding how he might have felt exhausted and needed a break from the marriage.

Also, that NY times article that r211 posted states that it is Kate's brother, not the Spades, who claims that the sister was estranged from the rest of the family and that her account strikes him as bullshit.

Suicide is always such a waste ...

"Remember: It was the end of the world but there is one man in NYC who has survived and is well. He looks for others for a long, long time and then, in despair, decides to kill himself. He goes to the top of a building and jumps. On the way down, he hears a telephone ring.

"No matter how bad it gets, there is a telephone ringing ... "

The babbling sister was estranged from kate spade's family, but Kate was the only family member who was talking to babbling sister so they have been in touch. Reading the article, I dont think anybody really is denying that KS had mental issues, some are downplaying it, (we didnt expect this!) but it looks like everybody knew. And she gained weight-- she must have been on anti-depressants or even a mood stabilizer.

R216, I just read the article, and what it says is that Ms. Saffo was estranged from everyone in the family, except Kate.

Again, the sister isn’t lying. And neither are the people whom I’ve spoken to in the last 24 hours.

Anyhow, it really doesn’t matter. This poor woman is dead, and she just did not have the fortitude to go through a divorce, even a spoon fed one, in little tiny bites, and pieces.

Poor lady.

R217 what exactly is that [italic] made-up [/italic] little homily supposed to prove??

This story has really captured me. I cant understand. only if she was on anti depressants. i had a trainer that i told i was taking lexipro back in 2011 and he said STOP. he said every woman client he had was on it and it was making them batt shit crazy. another friend said all his co workers, attorneys ect. in century city were on well butrin. no thanks, i will just stay in bed. i cant stand any of that stuff. i lost all my friends once on that shit. i went just mad. so that part makes sense . and if the little girl was a little spoiled entitiled twat. i get leaving her behind. but otherwise none of it makes sense. i mean this woman had the means to changer EVERYTHING in her life . including her name.

ny daily news is reporting that the husband said she was suffering from severe depression for the past 6 years.

Maybe a bit of Peter Beard, too?

R221 too invested in this story. There are always people looking in from the outside. Way outside.

Just going by her sweet, contented aesthetic me and Mary Poppins look ( not an insult. I think she looked wonderful. I'm so tired if everyone looking like zombie frankenwhores.), she probably wanted to stay married and be a family woman forever. It was probably very scary and identity- crumbling to think of having to date or even just be known as a single again, especially if it entailed losing weight and changing her look as some have implied- meeting new people and new expectations. I'm sympathetic. She seemed like a quiet person. Her husband probably said he shared the same dream in the beginning.

Being in a long-term relationship with a Certified Mentally Ill Person™ could lead to the RBF seen on Mr. Spade in all the photos. He looks severely emotionally drained.

R214, dear troll, "no indication, no warning," means 1. He's being charitable; 2. KS never overtly said, "I'm going to kill myself."

It's really in poor taste to armchair quarterback every statement uttered by a grieving family. This isn't one of your Miss Marple hobby mysteries.

It would also be a somewhat bleak prospect to spend a future in business partnership with an ex (which was inevitable, as he was a leech)

[quote]R227 dear troll, "no indication, no warning," means 1. He's being charitable; 2. KS never overtly said, "I'm going to kill myself.”

No, it means, “Don’t blame me, I was over here in my own apartment, after I dumped her.”

I was working in a corporate office in LA a couple years ago, and someone had used all these memos from Kate Spade Inc. meetings as recycled copy paper.

It contained a lot of details about the state of the company, and probably shouldn't have been used the way it was.

What I remember most was how exhausting it all seemed on a mass scale. Stores underperforming compared to other stores in the same area, closing and consolidating stores, brand restructuring, outlet inventory, replacing managers, over inventory, lower sales in certain international cities, and on and on. It seemed overwhelming even if the company was successful.

R230 Kate Spade hasn't owned Kate Spade in YEARS. I doubt those memos effected her.

[quote]I was working in a corporate office in LA a couple years ago, and someone had used all these memos from Kate Spade Inc. meetings as recycled copy paper.

Well, the info you read had nothing to do with Kate Spade the person or the state of her finances, then, since she sold the company in 2007.

I think some people here underestimate the psychological impact of one's eponymous company going down the drains. Yes, it wasn't hers anymore so her financial impact might have been limited, but it was her idea, her effort, her name.

Her eponymous company wasn't going down the drain, though. It sold to Coach last year for 2.4 billion. She may have been upset that she sold it for far less than that, or disapproving of the increasingly tacky direction it was going, but the brand was not in financial trouble.

I wish I'd kept the link to the interview, but there was one where both Kate and Andy were talking about working together. He said - or maybe even she said - that she'd often burst into his office when she had an idea or wanted to tell him something, and even if he was on the telephone, she'd impulsively start talking to him. So a boundary had to be drawn - she agreed but said she couldn't help it! So he moved to another floor of the building.

A weird little story but suggests that she didn't have good boundaries. What that might also mean is that she didn't have good boundaries with her daughter - she complained so much about the little girl in that interview from last year in the other thread. Who says SO many complaining/hurt things about their child to a stranger in a public interview?? Someone who feels entitled to have a pre-teen who never hurts their feelings - someone who isn't handling it well - someone who is too invested in that child showing love and attention... It's exhausting, it drives people away. And the over-sharing about her preteen in the interview is bulldozing over the child's boundaries and rights to privacy and not to have her private behavior broadcast to the entire world.

Even in that interview, when everyone else was complaining about his behavior - it's hers that bothered me, just as much. Whine whine moan moan... He didn't know the headmaster's first name at the daughter's school - he didn't do this, her daughter didn't do that.... So what? Grow up, suck it up, put up some boundaries, some DISTANCE, so you're not hurt so much by these people who have their own lives which shouldn't have to revolve around YOU.... Well, anyway, she's dead now so I should shut up, but she needed therapy to become her own SEPARATE person, not depending on hubby or daughter, especially the 12 year old daughter, good grief! You have kids so you can care about them and help them along -- not so they can make you happy (that goes for spouses too but in a more give-and-take way -- with kids, it's mostly you give, they take -- or just don't have them)

[quote]Again, the sister isn’t lying.

My guess is, the sister was truthful enough on the broad points—Kate had been battling mental illness for years (duh); Kate had been drinking too much recently—but exaggerating or outright fabricating her own involvement in getting Kate help. Her emphases on sending Kate to the same program that treated Catherine Zeta-Jones and the idea that Kate was "inspired" by Robin Williams seemed just sort off, too, like maybe they reflected a fixation on celebrity more than any kind of reality.

It's also weird that despite her seeming candor about her sister's problems, Ms. Saffo never mentioned Kate's marital difficulties. Makes me think she probably knew much less than she was pretending to about what was really going on her sister's life.

Thank you, r153. Well put.

Has anyone posted the NPR interview with the 2 of them? They had been together since they were in college. The Spade boys had a father who bailed when they were preschoolers and a stepfather who shot himself when they were teens. Has to be so hard. If you have never tried to get a friend or family member who is bipolar help, you really cannot imagine how exhausting they are, how anxious you feel and how hard it is to put a floor in the situation.

Yes, menopause can really worsen pre-existing mental issues, I have seen it with depression, bi-polar and ADD - people who had always managed to get by all of a sudden had real escalations in symptoms and the old strategies did not have the same effect.

She sounds like it was a trifecta of pre-existing illness, mid-life issues (including a child growing up, a marriage ending and career challenges) and a loss of identity with someone with a fragile sense of one. Her sister also alluded to possible childhood trauma.

Wonder if her husband was about to file or had someone new? He may just have been burnt out a year ago or wanted a different/more stable/respite environment for his young daughter.

That the suicide note was published really is a new low. Wonder if it was the housekeeper, building super or cop? No one else would have had access.

Very sad, esp for her child. Such a vulnerable age anyway.

Bipolar stats are pretty grim. 90% of marriages involving a bipolar end in divorce. 50% of bipolars attempt suicide and 25% of bipolars end up successfully committing suicide. They are extremely challenging to date and tend to show their volatility in the context of intimate romantic or family relationships. Outside of partners and family, they come across as somewhat normal. That's why a lot of coworkers claim she was happy and bubbly, they wouldn't have had visibility to her private persona.

[quote]90% of marriages involving a bipolar end in divorce. 50% of bipolars attempt suicide and 25% of bipolars end up successfully committing suicide.

Just for the sake of not alarming other bipolar people here too much, the stats I’m seeing are closer to 15 percent than 25 percent on that last one.

And maybe she was Borderline. They can be just as bad - depending on you to constantly support them and build them up and put up with their shit. The neediness and passive-aggressive jibes, especially about the daughter, that indicates a weak sense of self and an inability to understand where one person ends and another begins (esp with spouse or child). Typical borderline issues. And typical issues of an alcoholic, for that matter.

r236 I agree with that assessment, also saying Kate wouldn't get treatment because she was afraid it would hurt her "celebrity" made no sense.

[quote]To [R120], for the love of the Lord, come back to us! We don't dismiss you! We revere insiders!

DL does [italic]not[/italic] revere insiders. They are usually treated poorly [italic]and[/italic] dismissed (as R120 was), which contributes to there being so few of them. For the record, R120/R210/etc, I enjoyed reading your comments.

[quote]I don't think she was a "frau" if she spent her life with design, art and business, plus she was very stylish and had a sense of humor according to what people say.

According to DLers, [italic]all[/italic] females are fraus – including newborns. It is juvenile and tiresome, yet goes part and parcel with reading with this board.

[quote]Late was a very unhappy lady

Unfortunate typo.

What Falls Aways, "The Waking" is a simple organic poem by Theodore Roethke that has nothing to do with menopause, but it might to batshit crazy womb on a cross Mia Farrow. Margaret are you Grieving by Gerard Manley Hopkins would seem more fitting.

Kate Spade seemed a nice woman. Anxiety and success, the illusion of perfection but never flashy. A shared family enterprise successful beyond their wildest dreams. That beautiful apartment always looking both real and studied, as did she and her husband. Give up a business for a child but the business of being a rich lady with a Brand never goes away, even if many of the responsibilities do. ONE single child is a great place to invest all your anxieties, perfectionism and need to do better. It's so easy to see from outside. Still I think for a long time there was a real family there and some simplicity in their luxurious happiness, some humor in their stylishness. She looked both farmwife and blue blooded. Her husband tried to keep up until middle age when how tha affected them allowed him to surpass her. Every movement of that increases guilt and recrimination and d i s t a n c e.

Kate's sister knew a lot. They had talked, the details make clear. Outcasts are often are told the darkest truths because the outcast is often a rather negative energy before they are needed. Still the sister labelled it wrong. There is no bi-polar surprise in middle age. There can be much unravelling and keeping things quiet.

She resented her daughter, I don't think so. She resented not being needed or appreciated or productive. So they start again with a Valentine name but the fizz left the drink with no feel or energy to create a wave. It's all a crapshoot anyway. She knows they were hard working and talented but that "Kate Spade" success made them also lucky frauds. Doesn't prepare you for failure when you return though. Sweaters and skirts and mixed patterns too dull to be cute OR chaotic. The husband is leaving for a long time, yes menopause came to play and her anxieties and drinking and his distance and fatigue. This living apart for 10 months with no "mention of divorce" is a lie no matter how careful they were with each other. She was fragile. It's not becoming when you have so much, to weep and complain about divorce, but then again she was with the spooky dude her whole adult life and that world they created and their child that they called success was in the end inextricable from their love and partnership and life itself. For her.

Hormone shifts can worsen underlying mood disorders - during and after pregnancy AND at menopause.

Bi-polar is so tricky to medicate and shifting hormones makes the challenge more difficult.

Being consumed in work, then in raising a very young child, may have absorbed some of the excess energy and kind of masked things. The extreme chattiness (by her own description having difficulty stopping, or with boundaries) and drinking (as a self medication strategy) are classic with bi-polar. Not as common now but smoking used to alternate with alcohol to rev up and/or to take the edge off.

Bi-polar is HELL on relationships and can really fuck up your life, look at Kanye, Roseanne, Pete Wentz: compulsive oversharers and suicide attemptors, one and all. Wentz seems the most stable and seems to really work at it as well as acting as a spokesperson for mental health issues. Roseanne recently tweeted a photo of a huge bottle of vodka half empty on her coffee table and for anyone who has had to go through this personally or with a loved one, that is a sure sign that mania is coming. The booze is only gonna take the edge off for so long. When the sister of Kate spoke of missing their 6-7 hour phone calls, that is the kind of detail about mania that rings true.

Exactly, R239.

[quote]According to DLers, all females are fraus – including newborns. It is juvenile and tiresome, yet goes part and parcel with reading with this board.

No, some know the difference - the term was for a specific type of female. I realize some didn't understand the difference.

R236, to someone who was emotionally off and whose sense of identity revolved around her brand it may have.

Although bi-polar folks who are not famous brand names find other reasons to not get help. Or to stop taking needed medication, once they are stable. Mania is a really addicting feeling, and way better than crushing depression. There can be a creative element to it. People speak of missing it. Once they feel better they think they do not need medication, or they miss the roller coaster.

So, yeah, I can see her saying that is a fear, esp since she had an anxiety disorder.

She was too neat to be biopolar.

Was this posted?

R180

[quote]I can't put my finger on it but he reminds of some older gay guy (writer?) who was patrician bred, old money, intellectual,

Truman Capote?

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Do we know that she even was bipolar? That's what the (possibly crazy herself and mendacious) sister says but most other reports make it sound like she was just depressed, without necessarily a manic component.

Agree, r235, that Kate's relationship with her daughter sounded problematic. It is not at all unusual for tween girls to suddenly decide that their mothers are the lamest people who ever lived, but Kate seemed to be completely dumbfounded and unable to handle it when her kid reached that totally typical stage. Im sure it did not help that this phase of her kid's development coincided with the unraveling of her marriage, leaving her no longer able to throw herself into parenting in order to ignore the issues with her husband.

There have been other things Kate herself said that suggest being a bit manic. Sometimes attempting to medicate depression can tip into mania in those who have a pre-disposition. Sad, regardless of the label applied.

Though I'm not an expert, she doesn't strike me as bipolar. I can't picture her having a manic phase. In one article she talks about their home life being very predictable. She's up at 6:30, she wakes up her daughter (which she says is "exhausting" because her daughter doesn't get up without multiple nudges from her, 10 minutes apart.) She says Andy goes to Starbucks because he doesn't want to be around this daily mother/daughter struggle. She says they all eat dinner together every night, and then she "immediately" goes to her bedroom and puts on her pajamas. She may watch a tv show with her daughter and then she is in bed and asleep by 10:30.

I do think she struggled with her relationship with her daughter. She hints at the tension and difficulty in many articles. It's funny because she struck me as being a polite, gracious lady with lovely manners. I imagined she always could say the right thing to people, and I envy that quality in people. It's rare, though I have a friend like that. She's Midwestern, too. Anyway, it seems in recent years, the stress was taking a toll on Kate and her demeanor, even in public interviews.

R253 If this is the second family member close to Andy Spade who's killed themselves, he might look at himself and ask what he's doing to cause this extreme reaction in others.

I think the words "sadness" and "heartbreak" are better , certainly for a sensitive or artistic type...

R186, that story is quite massaged. Bio dad basically fucked off, none of this months at a time thing. Bailed when they were quite young. Step-dad #1, main father figure, committed suicide when David was 15 and when Andy was at college.

"Do we know that she even was bipolar? That's what the (possibly crazy herself and mendacious) sister says but most other reports make it sound like she was just depressed, without necessarily a manic component"

For those speculating on her being bipolar - how would the public really know this?

My brother is bipolar - and it is pure hell on my family and his romantic interests/ex partners etc. But he is a completely different person to "the outside world" - his friends and co-workers would never know he is bipolar. Sure, they may know that he is a little depressed at times, but they would never know the full extent. Things like numerous inpatient psych treatments, suicide attempts - and his crazy up and down sometimes abusive behavior. They would be SHOCKED. They don't know this because we certainly wouldn't disclose that information t0o anyone, and he certainly acts like a normal person infant of certain people. BiPolars are like Jekyll and Hyde.

I don't really think anyone BUT Kates immediate family, which would included her sister, would truly know if she was bipolar. Her friends and co workers probably wouldn't unless she disclosed this information. BiPolars are very selective in who gets to witness their insanity. They usually keep the real crazy to a very limited circle.

She sounds borderline to me. That suicide note is the height of drama queen-ness, she wants her daughter to hate her father, and blame him. it is her way of getting back at him.

The husband looks like he has a stick up his ass, I wonder how he gets along with his brother David.

There are several little tells here.

Sad. Hope the kid has good support.

Being a parent is a very thankless task and the fit between parent and child can be better or worse. If she felt that she had given up so much to be at home...Teens are supposed to be separating themselves from parents, it is all normal but could feel threatening if everything else was crumbling.

R245, nice post--damn near poetic.

Thank you r251 for posting that audio interview. Absolutely fascinating to hear about their humble beginnings, struggles, and slow but steady rise to success. Somewhat wistful hearing Ms. Spades' soft tones, full of laughter, self-reflection, rich creative thinking processes and devotion to her daughter as the catalyst for selling her company.

It sounds like the husband and the daughter are both little shits.

They deserve each other.

.......

One of the friends inserting herself and saying all was great could not remember the last time she saw/spoke with Kate, lol.

I am sure she seemed madcap and free spirited when young but family had long ago fallen apart. Sad for the kid.

No plans for divorce does not jibe with 2 legal teams hired. If he wants to keep the brand going he cannot afford to be cast as the villain.

This quote is a doozy

In 2016, Kate shared the advice for working with your husband, telling PEOPLE, “Treat them as well as you would any other employee. What I mean is we need to respect one another as much as you do the other people in the office. I’ve had to learn to be as respectful.”

Toxic people in your life can cause you to lose the will to live. Most people who are surrounded by toxic/abusive people, especially long term, lose the will to live.

[quote]No plans for divorce does not jibe with 2 legal teams hired.

Yeah, there is no way that a couple who'd been living apart for 10 months were not even talking about divorce.

The husband's really kind of a camera hog. He's put himself in layouts and commercials for his brands and J. Crew., while having a model stand in for Kate...[italic]in their own home.[/italic]

Classy.

Sadly, I believe Andy is a bit relieved.

On and on and him needing to move to another floor because she could not stop talking at him when he was on the phone - he had to work on another floor - that is what being hypomanic might look like. It may seem charming in someone younger. It can be tied to creativity.

It can worsen over time if not treated and medicating for depression can exacerbate mania.

Menopause is a huge shift in, yep, chemicals. It can make a pre-existing mood disorder worse as can life challenges of middle age. A growing child and the failure of her marriage and career challenges - she likely felt like she had lost her identity and there was no point in continuing. She and Andy had been together since early in college and with the demands of the business she likely had few close friendships. The venting about her daughter and jealousy would not have won fans in the mommy set.

I do have sympathy for Andy and for the young girl. People like this literally drain you dry and the depressed/hypomanic moods cycle so you never know what to expect. It is exhausting in a way that is hard to imagine. I have known fathers who leave when kids are in early teens so that the kids can have a respite in a second home before they are gone for good. It can be hard not to feel resentful, as people with mood disorders are often non-compliant with treatment and a symptom can be lacking insight into their illness. If flat out SUCKS and friends and family have little control.

Very sad ending to her life. What do folks make of Andy acting in the ad series for the new brand? Anyone know him?

He may well be a bit relieved, esp if she threatened suicide often, as some people do. Having that hanging over your head is a miserable way to live. Still, has to be crushing grief, esp for his child. She seemed competi

She seemed competitive with him, for ex, the headmaster quip. He and the daughter may have had a better personality fit and that can be hard.

Keep your problems small folks. Such a short life. So sad.

Wow that add at R267 is terrible. It's not worth reading too much into it the "Where is Kate?" Where is Kate Spade would be a better title because both the merchandise and the marketing look very bad indeed. Andy the husband as the star was neither aspirational or amusing. Droopy. They had gone pretty soft in mid age. True creative geniuses will often continue successfully until late in life or have a renaissance but pop art populists in fashion, music or food can't reinvent themselves because so much of their success was a fluke happy accident the first time. I'm not saying she wasn't talented or very smart but she wasn't really a designer.

A lot of failure at once is fucking hard to deal with, but it's the marriage collapse that clearly caused her suicide. That doesn't make his boring ugly ass to blame. Some people can't take a breakup no matter how long in the coming. She must have not have seen anything good ahead at all. That was a lie. The things she could have done with her life business philanthropy media or wild sexual fulfillment went unexplored. Kate Spade was a frau. Yet she gets so much sympathy here because of her ironic hairstyle? Gays love that.

R272, to be fair, Kate didn't like her photo taken, as Andy says (and the pictures show) in this Conde Nast travel story.

R276 have you been told you're insufferable lately?

[quote]R268 If he wants to keep the brand going he cannot afford to be cast as the villain.

Too late for that. She seems lovely and gentle. He's irretrievably rat-like.

Why is his hair so greasy? Why is the "Where is Kate" commercial so lousy?

[quote]R280 Why is the "Where is Kate" commercial so lousy?

Because he wrote it.

Her husband has been 50% of the company since the beginning, including his name. It's not unusual that he would appear in photos beside articles about the business.

[quote][R272], to be fair, Kate didn't like her photo taken,

If Andy had any sense, he wouldn't like to have his taken.

No, never. Why? I get told I am very handsome and intelligent, talented, funny and well hung. Thanks for paying attention to my words though R278. I appreciate your feedback. Sorry to upset you.

Andy doesn’t have an upper lip.

R284 stfu

I always thought that they were re-creating something like Breakfast at Tiffanys or The Great Gatspy, or even just Scott and Zelda for their visual brand.

Hopefully the young girl has not inherited instability, although I wondered at how much she and her mother might be alike, that is where most clashes occur. Even with good support this will impact her all her life and future generations too.

Really? I feel like the "keeps talking" quote shows an exhuberant person in creative flow being dragged down by a couple of cold fish. He was to busy to talk to the originator of the company whose vision spoke to so many? But not too busy to insert himself, and I believe because of that the later ventures fell flat. She wasn't ysl, but really came across to the populace of an emotional level- he was neither. Sounds like a total gaslighter making it seem like her annoying prattle got in the way.

Andy is a tired and grieving middle aged man.

Unless he was waving the replacement in her face constantly, if one exists, he has my sympathy. All 3 of them do.

People may have experience dealing with addicts or alcoholics - bipolar disorder is often the underlying driver that they are trying to self medicate, to give you a sense of what life is like. He was also trying to raise a child and run and business and placate an unstable woman for years. You would look drained too.

They met when they were only 20 and now this end that no one could have wanted. It is awful.

[quote]r282 Her husband has been 50% of the company since the beginning, including his name. It's not unusual that he would appear in photos beside articles about the business.

But he also heavily features himself in this ad...first thing you see, front and center. It's basically an expensive selfie.

Give it a REST!

[quote]R287 I always thought that they were re-creating something like Breakfast at Tiffanys or The Great Gatspy,

It's spelled [italic]Gatzpy,

i was stunned that self-absorbed Andy went to the New York Times and had them print a very long statement: Excerpy:

...."We were not legally separated, and never even discussed divorce. We were best friends trying to work through our problems in the best way we knew how..."

A lot of creative people are bi-polar, R288.

Not being able to stop talking at someone while they are on the telephone at work is not exuberance, it is more likely hypomania.

It may appear charming in a young person but over time becomes the oversharing of an Ayelet Waldman or a Kanye - they cannot stop.

For all of your critique of Andy Spade, she, who had known him for decades, was desperate to hang onto him. Any proof of his being a cold fish or gaslighting or is that conjecture on your part, R288?

R292, I believe it is an attempt at brand management and containing the situation for the sake of the young daughter.

That is what I surmise, R294. Keeping his income flowing is priority #1.

[quote]R292 "We were not legally separated."

Yuh.....well, do ANY people go through that legal step, anymore? It's so 1970s.

Of course not, r293. That is my inference. It may very well be the other way around, or probably both ways.

Andy is on major Spin Cycle, r296.

I'm expecting an interview with Andy and major networks on how dstraught, shocked he is. "Never saw it coming....only separated.....no talk of divorce......blah blah blah"

When will Daughter Dearest show her face?

....and so Andy's Media Campaign starts via The New York Times "statement".

He likes to talk about himself...and even do art instillations about his past.

r210 = Andy Spade publicist

We always ask ourselves in these cases, Who profits? (In this case, the husband.)

Who had the means and proximity? (The husband.)

Who usually kills wives? (The husband.)

He made sure he was in another residence, r304. Then, suddenly, Kate meets an unfortunate ending.

Wasn't he in the apartment at the time?

When was it released that he was somewhere else?

[quote]R306 Wasn't he in the apartment at the time? When was it released that he was somewhere else?

The perp was on the premises, though had established a seperate abode a few blocks away as an alibi.

The cleaning lady did not go to him upon discovering the body...most likely because he was hiding behind a door at the time.

That statement is ridiculous. Nothing smaller than small town white folk with money and their tiny pretentions. Protect the Brand of course but don't tell so many lies. Of course he didn't kill her but he was divorcing her and she did drink a lot and was mad with grief and resentment. She was undergoing treatment for anxiety and depression? That's most everyone, including himself. It's starting to get boring. She's dead. People kill themselves every minute.

He should speak about that when the time is right and educate his daughter to be more than an heiress to such a dull brand.

Kate Spade was “a major ­alcoholic” whose marriage and life were spiraling out of control well before her suicide, fashion-industry sources told The Post Wednesday.

The handbag designer hanged herself in her home at 850 Park Ave. with a red scarf attached to a doorknob. Her body was found by a housekeeper Tuesday morning.

A suicide note led investigators to believe her fractious marriage to Andy Spade had precipitated her decline.She and Andy had been living separately for at least six months, according to fashion-industry sources who added that Kate’s drinking had been a problem before the split.

One insider called her “a major alcoholic.”

Kate’s sister, Reta Saffo, told the Kansas City Star newspaper that her younger sibling had suffered from mental-health and substance-abuse problems for years before she and Andy began uncoupling.

Andy, her husband of 24 years and longtime business partner, tried to get her to seek help, but “nothing came of it,” Saffo said.

Andy has denied this, claiming in an open letter published in The New York Times Wednesday that Kate had been seeing a doctor for the past five years and was taking anxiety medication but not abusing alcohol or drugs.

He also said they “never even discussed divorce.”

However, a source told People magazine that Kate and Andy “both had lawyers and were divorcing. But they hadn’t filed yet.”

Friends and family said Kate and Andy kept their personal demons in the closet and out of public view.

Her father, Earl “Frank” Bros­nahan, said she seemed fine when they spoke Monday, the day before her death.

“She was happy and we made plans to meet in California,” her dad told The Wall Street Journal.

“They seemed to be the perfect, happy family,” Cornelia Guest, a longtime friend of Kate’s, told People.

The housekeeper who discovered Kate Spade’s suicide considered the fashion icon her “best friend” and even went on vacations with her to Napa Valley, the worker’s son told The Post.

“My mom was one of the people that found her,” said Mark Roldan, 23. “She is a little shaken, especially with trauma such as this. It just really hit our family and I’m pretty sure the Spade family as well. It was just really shocking to find out her best friend Kate Spade and also a big influence in my life just passed.”

Roldan is pursuing a career in fashion and said Spade mentored him.

“She believed in my vision,” he said. “There would be times we would be in California — you know she brought me to Napa Valley and showed me: ‘This could all be yours if you do the same thing I did. Really push and push and push day in and day out.’”

The housekeeper’s personal Facebook page includes photos depicting a sprawling Napa Valley manse that she identifies as belonging to Spade.

“Tiff and Justin was invited to spend the weekend at kate spade place,” she wrote in an August 2017 post along with a photo of two kids standing in front of a Spanish-Colonial style home.

Roldan was so close to Spade he even brought her flowers for Mother’s Day last month, according to a video he shared with The Post.

“Oh my God,” Spade gasps as she answers her door in pajamas and Roldan hands her a bouquet.

Then the fashion maven makes an excuse for her casual get-up.

“I was like ‘It’s Mother’s Day, that’s why I’m in my pajamas,’ ” she says in what may be one of the last videos of her alive.

“It’s OK,” Roldan reassures her.

Roldan’s mother found Spade dead in her 850 Park Ave. home Tuesday, hanging by a red scarf attached to a door knob.

Smear tactics, r309. By Guess Who?

Who?

WTF R245? Sober up and speak English.

Sad that she was so touched when the housekeeper's son brought her flowers. Was she alone? Seems like her own child and husband didn't do anything to celebrate her...

I do not wish to speak ill of the dead, but I am not a fan of this shoe.

Damn, r315. I am trans from the ankles down and rarely wear women's shoes, but even I can recognize that pair as fug. Those heels; yikes.

Yes, I'd pick SJP shoes for comfort any day.

I would never wear those, r317, and I'm sure they are the opposite of comfortable, but they are not as ugly as the shoes at r315.

She and her husband both seem insufferable

What an odd stance. Where is that woman in the garish red and gold heels tiptoeing to?

R316 It also comes as a bootie

[quote]Friends and family said Kate and Andy kept their personal demons in the closet and out of public view.

Unfortunate phrasing considering Kate hung herself from her closet door. I wonder if they are implying Andy is in the closet.

It looks like she stepped on a big ball of tar.

Actually, scratch that...It's very, "We open in Venice. We next play Verona."

Maybe it's their teeth I find annoying.

[quote]R320 What an odd stance. Where is that woman in the garish red and gold heels tiptoeing to?

She might be afraid of skidding?

r325 = Princess Beatrice trolling.

Kate was not as lovely as Princess Beatrice, sadly.

Was she sneaking hidden messages into her later pieces?

Ugly, fingerpaint bag.

This advertising image isn't depressing, at all...

And what of this?

Another ominous, coded message

Her purses will be more popular than ever among passive-aggressive fraus who, after having an argument with their husbands, will grab the purse and stroke it like a cat will gazing into the horizon.

The lonely Kate Spade-ite.

He fucked up the shoe line. Those heels are his.

Why do people, who have suffered from depression all their life, have children?

There's a chance you pass on the potential for depression, you know how awful life can be (but decide to create another life to potentially also go through the same), plus you are at a higher risk of committing suicide (which then is something your child may have to deal with).

Selfish, a sure sign of delusion.

R:338 My guess is that they are looking for some sense of fulfillment or to fill that void that hasn’t been filled with money, fame, etc .. That a child will somehow ground them and make them happy . Save them from their personal demons . It’s very sad . Kate probably would have been a great Mom had she not been wealthy and famous . It destroys a lot of sensitive and creative people . Who knows , she may have been a great mother anyhow . We are just reading what the media is putting out . However , the alcohol addiction and mood disorders make for a very unstable home life and can be very confusing and frightening for a child . This whole story is tragic . I feel for Andy and Bea. Publishing a suicide not the day of her death has shown that we’ve sunk to a new low as a society.

Sad that she was so touched when the housekeeper's son brought her flowers. Was she alone? Seems like her own child and husband didn't do anything to celebrate her...

IMO, that gesture was wildly inappropriate. Both the ambush at her front door and giving her flowers for Mothers Day when she isn't his mother and he already has a living breathing mother. I'm getting a grifter vibe from that kid and from his housekeeper mother who claims to have been Kate's "best friend". Blurred boundaries. Mother and son took vacations with Kate. And Kate was supposedly mentoring the kid to be a designer (yeah right--like you would ever have chosen that career without the expectation of a famous benefactor opening all the right doors for you). According to him, Kate said he had real talent *snort*..... being polite, no doubt.

Hmmmm. Housekeeper discovered the body. Are these two freeloaders in her will?

R339 is correct. How many stupid magazine covers have we seen of smiling celebs holding their late in life, IVF, C-section babies and the headline reads something like "my baby saved my life". Then the article is all new mommy-frau sappiness about how the missing part of themselves has finally been found and now they are content and fulfilled. Blech. That's a lot of pressure to put on a kid. Making them responsible for your happiness.

R330 Tes, I think you're right about the grifter housekeeper and son!

He was NOT in the apartment, he has lived nearby for almost a year.

Interesting about the housekeeper and son.

There are only so many options for how the suicide note got to TMZ. Housekeeper, building staff, cop. No one else would have access.

I sincerely doubt that her child failed to acknowledge her on Mothers Day in any way. Not plausible.

They may have seen her isolation and mental and emotional deterioration and filled the vacuum.

I have always loved you is odd language to the kid, so was not surprised that they had a rocky relationship, as is common with mothers and daughters at that age. It is part of them becoming their own person.

WHAT the actual F?!!!

Pretty sure?!

Grifters!

“My mom was one of the people that found her,” said Mark Roldan, 23. “She is a little shaken, especially with trauma such as this. It just really hit our family and I’m pretty sure the Spade family as well.

I doubt someone with a mood disorder would have been a great mother if she was not famous.

Why do people with issues have kids? Lack of insight into the condition and how it impacts you and those around you is a classic symptom of mental disorders. It is a SHITTY life for a kid, esp as they seemed to be in a lot of conflict, too. And it had been really bad for at least half the life of the kid, even by the timeline of Andy, and you know it was not all that great before then.

I nominate the housekeeper for family as the ones who got the note, or an image of the note, to TMZ. With grifter friends like that...

Why a trip to look at colleges for a 13 year old? That is typical for sophomore or junior year of high school. This does not make sense to me.

What do they call it “menoPAUSE?” Shouldn’t it be “menoEND?” Womens’ periods don’t come back, right?

R347 I assumed they were looking at boarding schools for high school. I have a friend who went to one in New England at age 13 so I thought it was the same thing.

My her own description of her behaviors, she likely fit this diagnosis. It seems to be especially common with creative people.

Maybe, R349, but he used the word college. It would make sense to want to get the kid out of a deteriorating situation, esp if the mom seemed to have a lot of conflict with her. Kids are the roommates on CL that you did not get to screen. Even with healthy, well functioning parents and kids with no major issues, there can be better and worse personality fits. Kate was unstable, drinking, on pills - just a horrific life for the kid. I have known the more functional parent, mother or father, to move out just to give the kid an alternate, less nightmarish home.

I hope I am wrong but this seemed like a FU type of act.

The housekeeper or son giving that video to the press solidifies the likelihood that they gave the note or the image of the note to TMZ. Disgusting bottom feeders and that is who she had in her life. Friends speaking to the press cannot name the last time that they saw her. People become IMPOSSIBLE to be around. Very sad.

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Many who abuse alcohol are actually also bipolar, the combo carries a higher suicide rate as well.

Horrible situation, esp with grifters circling.

He was filming it, too, R340. The flowers could have been a nice gesture...but the filming...

Hypomania is common in the creative professions. It is less intense than full blown mania, people are rarely hospitalized for it.

having higher-than-normal energy levels

being restless or unable to sit still

having a decreased need for sleep

having increased self-esteem or confidence, or grandiosity

being extremely talkative

having a racing mind, or having lots of new ideas and plans

being easily distracted

taking on multiple projects with no way of finishing them

having decreased inhibitions (combined with talkativeness = the classic oversharing)

having increased sexual desire

engaging in risky behavior, such as having impulsive sex, gambling with life savings, or going on big spending sprees

During a manic or hypomanic phase, you may not be able to recognize these changes in yourself. If others mention that you’re not acting like yourself, you’re not likely to think that anything’s wrong.

i was watching NY1 and they are reporting that the husband said he hasn't seen any note and that divorce wasn't discussed.

Maybe it was the cops who leaked the suicide note after all. Is it typical for them to leak things that they were told by the surviving family members, like that she was drinking a lot? Seems unusual under the circumstances? The suicide note being leaked the day of the death, cannot remember that kind of thing, esp with a young kid involved.

That the family is attacking the sister for saying she had mental health issues is kinda funny since she offed herself. I mean, that seems to make it kinda indisputable, no? Classic scapegoating behavior.

Talking about the kid like this when she would have been in 5th or 6th grade, yikes. And that it was so bad on a daily basis that the husband left the apartment is telling. None of them had been happy in a long time. The kid and Andy rarely have looked happy in photos in years and Kate looks strained and at times a wee bit disheveled. She may have been a wine in the sippy cup kind of mommy.

.........

how come TMZ hasn't found who the other person is? no way he wasn't fucking anyone else...

Per the photo in R310, I Kate was such a pretty freckled face Irish Colleen.

What the heck is going on here?

I don't mean on DL; I mean that the N.Y. Times is covering this story to such an extent.

This is starting to feel like 1994 with the O.J. Simpson case: inappropriate over coverage of non-news story.

Yes, R360.

In happier times. Kate comes in at 3:49

Very rare for a fish to self-euthanize and nearly unheard of in such a violent manner.

R361, I agree. The media is so tabloidy now. They are really gross.

That suicide note should not have been published in the media. I think also in more civilized days the media would not have said suicide, even if they knew. It would come out years later.

I didn't even want to click to see what "Meghan Kelly" had to say about it.

another little clip

Did she ever change her look? The beehives and buns, never flattering.

Yeah, I saw another look with her hair down. I think the hair up looks good. It was part of her kind of retro style.

.....

R368, I agree. She looks lovely with her hair up!

R361 here again.

Well, at least the NYT had the "decency" to print an 800 for a Suicide Prevention Hotline after its long "news" story about Kate's demise.

I believe that there is a copy cat phenomenon in relation to suicides in general. There probably is a copy cat phenomenon in relation to school shootings, but I digress.

R358, let's not exaggerate now..........

R310

[quote] There would be times we would be in California — you know she brought me to Napa Valley and showed me: ‘This could all be yours if you do the same thing I did. Really push and push and push day in and day out.’”

If true, this is really depressing. I'll never be a wealthy person, but this quote just seems exhausting to me. As if all her work was tied to "...this could all be yours". I mean, really, that's how she viewed her life? Just keep pushing...so you can own a big place in Napa?

I think this story is still moving because people are shocked. She seemed happy, people thought the marriage was good, her aesthetic was bright, bubbly, and happy while stylish. It could be that aesthetic that they pushed for the brand was why she was worried to go to rehab. Rehab woukd be very off brand. As was divorce and being on her own again and having to reinvent herself. And she really comes off as sweet and not nearly as pretentious as she could have been. He on the other hand, he doesn't. So everyone is getting a really good look at the pain behind the gloss of a well loved fashion brand and the couple who built it.

[quote]Wonder how much they got from TMZ and DM for the note, the video, etc.? It is despicable.

TMZ cited "law enforcement sources" as providing the content of the suicide note, so apparently, it was a cop, not the housekeeper or her son, who leaked the note—for a nice price, I'm sure. As for the son's video, it appeared in the NY Post, not on TMZ. (Doesn't mean he wasn't paid for it, or prove he's not a grifter—just pointing it out for accuracy's sake.)

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Funny that R287 said that Andy and Kate seemed to be creating a Breakfast at Tiffany's thing because that's exactly what that mask at R386 reminds me of.

R374, yes, but still, it's not like she was an A-List celebrity, you know?

R366, that short interview with Willow Bay is interesting.

Kate says that she thought she might have worked in journalism a la Holly Hunter in Broadcast News.

I remember that movie for Holly Hunter's daily crying jags.

From [italic] Town & Country [/italic] article at r357

[quote]The designer and her husband built and iconic brand—and a marriage that lasted for 24 years.

R279 irretrievably is now my favorite word.

The photo at R272 is like she is being replaced by a younger model

R382, yup. Scary.

How weird r376

I didn't know much about Kate Spade before Wed.

But my prescription sunglasses are Kate Spade label. FWIW.

We always knew that money can't buy happiness.

Now we know that career success doesn't buy it either.

The awful husband and bratty daughter aside, this story is just so sad on its own. It really does make you put into perspective how wealth and acclaim are subjective.

It's a very minor comparison, but for years when I lived in a studio apartment in NY, I thought if I only had a separate bedroom, everything would be grand. Then I got a big apartment in L.A. with a patio, bedroom, large kitchen etc...and guess what, the basic insecurities about life and the future didn't automatically disappear. What I mean is, for some people, as you acquire more, it may provide some comfort and stability, but it doesn't mean everything is "fixed". Life is still uncertain.

She did have a lot to live for, but when one has clinical depression, or a drinking problem, there's a lot to live [italic] with. [/italic] And it can come to feel insurmountable.

Basically, people end their lives when they have lost all hope...when they just cannot see their feelings and their lives changing. Ever.

I have a lot of sympathy for her.

He just made himself more of a media interest dressing like a rat.

Well that's a nice way to calm things down for your traumatized child...

R387, well said.

It reminds me of the Bob Marley song.

"You running and you running and you running away.....but you can't run away from yourself."

His child's friends' parents will start to wonder if Andy has any stable family or friends around him. Then distance themselves quickly.

I guess Andy has never heard of wearing dark sunglasses and a baseball cap.

Looks perfectly normal to me, r388.

Andy is workng on his next FU look for the media.

So was Andy seeing someone else? There’s a reporter on twitter who swears he was dating a man. It feels gossipy at this point so will wait until more info comes out.

Well, look who the cat dragged in: AJ Benza.

"In a matter of days you will hear that Kate Spade medicated herself with antidepressants and Benzos and attached a scarf to a hook on her walk-in closet. You will also hear Andy Spade was carrying on a gay affair. The note was meant for him to explain that their kid."

The first sight on Mr. Spade yesterday was with his LAWYER.

Why take a stroll with your lawyer? Just go to their office, or have them come to you.

This weirdo seems to love the attention.

R397 A poster asks why La Benza is spreading rumors and he sweepingly puts her IN HER PLACE

[quote]"Not a rumor. I'm a fuckin journalist for 30 years. I don't spread rumors. You're used to dumb gossip websites. That ain't me."

Well, okay then!

La Benza's picture is in the encyclopedia next to the "dumb gossip website reporter" entry. But I wouldn't be surprised if he were correct about Andy Spade's gay affair.

BTW, AJ, we've already heard Kate hanged herself in her bedroom with a red scarf. Unless you think the walk-in closet detail is particularly scintillating, you're not really telling us anything new there.

R291, it’s Gatzby.

Mouse mask and that kiddie looking backpack??? fucking creepy!!! Ok this is now going from tragic death of an accomplished designer to an internet celebrity freak show. He corporate guys at Kate Spade the Company are probably losing their shit...

R394, thanks for the Wendy post.

I had never seen the beginning of her show before, and I would have to say her fawning audience do the "Waa Waa" shriek made me embarrassed to be an American.

Also, when she took out a Q-Tip to wipe her mascara, I had to ask myself if this wasn't a sketch on SNL. What the fuck!!!

The reaction sweeping the fashion world:

R403, you need a stomach of steel to watch daytime talk shows.

R404, LMAO at the statue falling down.

R402, what are you referencing? Yes I’ve read this whole thread but remain confused. Is this on someone’s Instagram? Are they tied to Andy?

R401 Can we f-ing put this to bed?

It's [italic]Gatzbie!

R403, OMG I need to check out some Wendy W. DL threads to have myself a good laugh.

I mean, she is worse than anyone on The View. What is up with the fake NY accent? T

R407, look at R388.

i know, that fucking yellow backpack is just strange. What a shitty style. who the fuck would buy his shit now? why wasn't he carrying his own brand of bags? STUPID!

Pathetic as it may sound to some, this is kind of turning into my Princess Di moment.

I felt absolutely nothing when that one died, and was curious as to why people were affected/effected (?) But this death is much more touching to me.

Maybe it all has to do with where you are in your life - -

"what's all this talk of Cats getting Spayed? I think animal control is very important……..never mind!!!!"

I'm not a Wendy Williams fan, but it's probably impossible not to join in on the "WOO WOO, WOO WOO!" if you're in that audience.

R414, I suppose.....

But I feel like even Wendy herself is thinking "Okay this was cute in the beginning, but now, it's just stupid. Sit down and shut the fuck up you idiots."

And I don't care how tall she is. would Wendy want tits that big?

Normal women with breasts that size have surgery to have them reduced.

More proof that the NYT is no longer the NY paper of record:

It reported yesterday that nice girls received a Kate Spade bag as a bat mitzvah (sic) gift. And bad girls shoplifted them.

WTF????

Here is link referred to above.

Why would he wear that mouse mask?

R419, who knows?

Imagine she had to live with that weirdo for over 20 years...maybe that's why she hung herself.

I didn't know who this person was before she offed herself - I don't know what it is that's so interesting about these suicides. Maybe it just comes down to what DL fave Woody Allen always says - nothing is interesting except sex and death.

R414, well, where are you?

There could be more to this. Did she kill herself when she found out her husband and his bf were pervy cos-play queens? Is he supposed to be the Caitlyn Jenner of cos-play? You can’t make this shit up.

Actually, it is Gatsby.

I totally get why you wouldn’t want the paps to catch your grieving face, but a kiddie mask and backpack are SO not the way to avoid the glare. Most celebs do the hat and big sunglasses. It’s not a good look for either the old or new brand.

I guess they don't have a back exit?

Yeah, dark glasses would have been enough

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I'm trying to figure out if the mouse mask is meant to be "Feivel" from An American Tale or perhaps Bernard from "The Rescuers."

DLers, remember the interview with Kate and Andy that appeared on part one of this thread?

It showed their "cluttered" apartment with an ugly and depressing painting given pride of place in the living room.

IIRC, it looked like they lived on the ground floor of that Park Ave. apt.

Bernard from "The Rescuers."

R430, ah yes, thanks.

R340, have you ever had “help”, or a staff at the house? Your personal assistant and your housekeeper become your very close friends. You give them clothes, presents, and take them on vacation. They become like family.

Save for that black hole painting their apartment was very chic and homey. Beautiful in fact. Cluttered in areas, but with lots of space for the eye to rest. I wouldn't criticize their home. Too bad it's such a sad place now. He had already moved out, I wonder if he will now return to live there with his daughter.

Yes, Bernard.

Buck teeth and all.

R433, yes, I agree that the apt was actually very lovely.

It was another article quoted that referred to it as cluttered.

My point was that the view of the city street was depressing.

It's GATSBEIGH.

I think the apartment is gorgeous and a lovely floor plan, too. The Richard Serra black hole painting did look a little scary, but I saw some party photos where the Spades were hosting an event for the New York Center for Children’s charity in their home, and the painting doesn’t look as menacing in that context, with people all around. It looks more b&w graphic and, indeed, a place for the eye to rest.

In one article Kate mentioned going “up” to her bedroom and down to her treadmill the basement, so I guess it is more than one floor. It also has s courtyard, so you’re right R429, they must be ground floor, with a 2nd level? It has been described as a townhouse, though there are like 50 units in that building. I had thought a townhouse was a dwelling that was all one home from the ground floor on up —a vertical house, attached to other dwellings on either side.

r427 - DL has blocked Daily Mail links for some months now.

This oil painting would made another cheery addition to the "modern aesthetic" in their apartment.

I hate the way they decorated the apt. they have too much stuff everywhere...if something goes missing in one of those functions you host, you won't even know. It's so tacky to display all your shit, they were definitely poor growing up. they gotta show off now they're rich.

The big red squiggle one was not my style but it was better than R439 and the black hole above the fireplace.

I thought there was way too much artwork, too. A lot of people seem to be going overboard with that, even if they are not expensive.

It is either that or bare minimalism

I cannot believe that this adult man is running around Manhattan, wearing a rodent mask, just mere days after his wife’s tragic passing. And a bright yellow backpack, to boot. Perhaps he feels like an infantalized rat.

What bothers me is his denial of EVERYTHING. Kate was a relapsed, MAJOR alcoholic. She has struggled with these issues most of her adult life. She got her shit together, and triumphed over what ailed her, and unfortunately, fell off the wagon, and was struggling to find her way back to solid ground, to know avail.

This could happen to anyone, and it did happen. It happened to her. Everyone in their circle knows what was going on. This isn’t some big mystery. The daughter knows too. Just come out with it, and explain the tragedy as a teaching moment for us all.

No one is blaming him. He should have divorced her over a decade ago. The daughter was still a baby then. Perhaps she would have stuck around for her daughter then.

I’m just so angry and saddened deeply by all of this. What a waste. She didn’t deserve to do this to herself. She was not in her right mind. This was not a well thought out choice, or peaceful one. And yes, I believe that suicide can be well thought out, and peaceful. She wanted to die over self pity. She just couldn’t get over herself and her sham of a marriage.

R443 and you know this how?

[quote]and was struggling to find her way back to solid ground, to know avail.

Oh Dear! We no what you're going through, sweetie, avail being so inscrutable and all

Last year’s sale by Fifth & Pacific of the brand to Coach for $2.4 billion might have had something to do with it. God, the brand you started, with your name, increasing in value under a different management 24-fold and they saw NONE of it! Don’t get me wrong they got $50mm-$100mm when they sold but goddamn, $2.4 billion just 10 years later!! That would make me want to drink and go nuts. $2.4billion is super-extra-ultra fuck you money...

R437 that type of unit is known as a “maisonette”... Pat and Bill Buckley had one in the same coop building as Brooke Astor’s penthouse.

I agree with every word R443. Thanks for the insightful and sensible post. Why muck everything up with psychological buzzwords that don't fit her very understandable condition? Yet neither do they need to lie about real troubles she battled or chose to not face. She could have done a better job of it for sure. It was selfish, but it was also a desperate act. Very sad. The mask is a kind of metaphor. Children think when they cover their eyes that we can't see them.

[quote]R274 On and on and him needing to move to another floor because she could not stop talking at him when he was on the phone - he had to work on another floor - that is what being hypomanic might look like.

OR, that’s a face-saving story as to why he started to get his own place....as he was in the first stages of leaving her.

So, what exactly are you saying, r443 and r448? That Andy's official story that Kate was suffering from depression and anxiety is untrue, and she was just a big ol' boozehound who fell off the wagon? Or she did have depression and anxiety but Andy should have acknowledged that she was also a boozer? And that he dumped her?

re. "maisonettes" in NYC. The "white glove" luxury co-op at One Beekman has a maisonette, which if it had its own address would be 3 Beekman Pl. DLers of a certain age might remember that is where Mame told the taxi driver to take her home. When the taxi driver pulls up, the entrance of course is a totally different building.

I’m still trying to figure out how one hangs oneself from a closet doorknob which is three feet from the ground with a silk scarf. Can someone please explain?

Google can help you R352. YouTube too. It's not that complicated but it is different from a "drop" hanging.

Sorry, the above post and linked thread are meant for R452.

R452, I still don't get it, either. There isn't much info at the thread linked at R453, except for this...and I still do not completely get it - but this is the closest:

You get a rope, scarf, anything you can tie around your neck, and around the door handle. You kneel down, tie your knots, face away from the door, and lean away hard. Your efforts tighten the knots, oxygen levels in your brain decline, at which point your body begins to become heavy, and it's own weight starts doing the work that your oxygen starved muscles can no longer do. You fall asleep from oxygen deprivation, then eventually, you die.

I googled and did not really find info.

It's death by asphyxiation, the carotid artery is pressed hard by the tight scarf, belt or rope and you lose consciousness and with the weight of your body pulling down you will die in less than 10 minutes. I don't understand what you don't get. You tie your damn neck to the door knob, lean forward and let go. Making sure your red scarf doesn't allow enough length for your face to reach the floor. That is why some people tie their hands, so they won't panic and push themselves back up. Their are many easy ways to kill yourself. Please don't turn DL into one of those kind of places. If it were hard to die this way then Keith Carradine, Robin Williams L'Wren Scott and poor soused Kate wouldn't have been so successful. YouTube has some videos on it. People hang themselves in prison all too often from the side of a bunk and a torn sheet. You don't need to drop from the ceiling and break your neck. As a matter of fact, that method is less foolproof and far more prone to disastrous results.

You're basically putting yourself into a sleeper hold through the compression of the carotid artery (in your damn neck) and soon after turning purple and having your tongue fall out you will die. OK? Got it? Ghouls.

......

R455, I feel like there are two methods.

The first is the one you described.

The second, which has been mentioned a few times on the first KS thread, is that you attach one end of the red scarf to the doorknob, and then you throw it over the other top of the door. On the other side of the door, you stand on a chair or stool, tie the other end around your neck, and kick off.

Andy has a lot of businesses.

I can see that in jointly pushing many lifestyle brands, that they were the faces of, that appearing happy may have felt like a duty/burden.

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[quote]I hate the way they decorated the apt. they have too much stuff everywhere...if something goes missing in one of those functions you host, you won't even know. It's so tacky to display all your shit, they were definitely poor growing up. they gotta show off now they're rich.

Uh...I really don't think they'd be worried about guests stealing things.

The apartment is very stylish. Lots of art work, prints, photos, paintings, sculpture... collected over a life time. It looks sophisticated, very New York.

FORMER KATE SPADE FOUNDERS LAUNCH FRANCES VALENTINE

R457, thanks for the details.

It really is hard to envision, for those of us who think of hanging as "hanging" from a place above and self-asphyxiating by sitting on the floor. I am still not sure I get it. I feel like there is a huge margin of error...........oh well.

I just feel like there has got to be an easier way to off yourself, like, pills perhaps.

R464 here.

Sorry, that was "hanging" from a place above and NOT self - asphyxiating by sitting on the floor...

She was so lovely when young. Do we think he is fucking the model in the video?

So Andy was not wearing a "rat" 'mask, he was wearing a "Bernard" mask from "The Rescuers" and "The Rescuers Down Under, " 2 Disney films.

I am trying to think of a quip, and I cannot.

I think it was a comment on the cat and mouse game the tabs are playing with him, maybe?

Do we believe he was not given the note?

Who leaked the note to TMZ? The housekeeper? Super? Cops?

R464, I am still not sure if I really get it, either

You're not sitting on the floor. You're on your knees with your feet back against the door and you push yourself hard and fast forward. It's a kind of suspended position with your neck bearing all weight. So it is both quite stable and simple. No one can get their hands on the kind of pills that kill you. You've obviously watched a lot of bad movies and lived a sheltered life. You could take 100 benzos and still not die. The old school barbiturates are impossible to find. It is easy to off yourself on morphine if you have a terminally ill relative. You can't kill yourself sitting on the floor. You must make some effort. OK R465?

R461 Kate Spade and that sister were/are both pill popper alcoholics, allegedly. In an interview, the sister admitted to a reporter that she just took a sedative. They most likely called each other often under the influence, alcoholics are notorious drunk diallers.

That was a little bit clearer, R470

JFC, could the dumb fucks who don't understand how people commit suicide by hanging themselves from doorknobs please start their own thread to obsess over it and continue their whining that nobody is providing the level of detail they feel entitled to???

The father could have been right about pills. Obviously bad if mixed with alcohol, but some anti-depressants and other pills can be dangerous, too and have been linked to suicide.

Look, we are not "dumb fucks" because we do not know this method in great detail.

agree, R473 the stupidity, it burns

Actually at this point you are dumb fucks. Get lost. Join a suicide chat room. Some people will gladly talk to you about it every damn night for the rest of your dumfuck life. Now smarten up and leave it alone.

[quote] Look, we are not "dumb fucks" because we do not know this method in great detail.

Well, don't worry, I'm sure there are a million other reasons you are a dumb fuck—including the fact that you refuse to go discuss this topic somewhere else.

Someone how commits suicide this way obviously spent time learning to how to do it. Not a spur of the moment way to do it. So she had been thinking of it a while and studied up on how to do it successfully.

Well, let's hope she was a faster learner than some of the morons in this thread.

She could be depressed &/or anxious &/or bipolar and a drunk. Those things often occur together.

Anyone have a link to the Twitter rumors of him dating a man?

The rumors were that things had been extremely bad in the marriage for at least 5 years. Anyone know more about that?

She had likely always been a handful and menopause and major difficult life changes exacerbated things maybe. Her career may have masked issues that later spiraled. The alcohol and benzos and an underlying mood disorder can be ugly. She was no longer young and her child was a challenging age. She might have felt replaced in many arenas of her life.

Whether he was dating a man or a younger woman or a family friend, it would be unlikely for him to move out and be celibate and alone. Wonder how he will cope with the guilt?

The poor child.

LOL @ R480. But if she was a dimwitted as these gals she might still be alive.

Hard to age in the world she moved in...

Then stop moving in that world. There is much, much more to life than NYC glamor and fashion. So many beautiful places she could have relocated to to enjoy nature and find peace. They both seem shallow.

Pretty sure that is common in their industry, R484.

What do we think happened with the note? Did the cops take it as potential evidence?rr When notified, did Andy go straight to pick up the daughter or to Kate?

Now the husband wears a strange mask?

[quote]She could be depressed &/or anxious &/or bipolar and a drunk. Those things often occur together.

True. I was curious, though, why r443 shrieked, "What bothers me is his denial of EVERYTHING," when in fact, Andy did acknowledge some of Kate's issues: the depression, the anxiety, his move to another apartment.

Yeah, he denied she was a boozer and a pill popper, and I can't imagine it's true that they'd been living apart for 10 months without planning to divorce, but who knows—those might be facts he felt SHE wouldn't want announced to the public.

[quote]Hard to age in the world she moved in..

Actually, r483, I think she looks pretty in that photo—certainly better than the mess on the far left.

Andy has said he never saw a note. If the reports are true that he was in the apt. , how would he not have seen it? The housekeeper wouldn’t hide it. He would’ve seen it before the cop arrived no? The cop wouldn’t take it without showing it to him. How did this all play out? And yes, if he was there why didn’t the housekeeper go to him first?

Did you hear she hung herself from a door knob? How exactly do you do that. I am not sure I understand. Can someone explain it to me? Do you loop a scarf around your neck and jump at the door until it catches hold or do I sit on the floor and wait for the doorknob to find me? What if the scarf is knit, will I fall through the holes or would they close up from my body weight? And what if I don't wear scarves, could I use a necklace or a turtleneck? We don't have door knobs in my home - we have brushed nickel handles on our doors. Should I go to a hotel or could I maybe wait until tomorrow? What about elastics? Why don't more people just put elastic bands round their throats and then sit on the floor adjacent to a door knob? Kate Spade was so chic though a little heavy in the legs. Tights!!! Why not hang yourself with tights!!! She's onto something innovative again. And halloween masks for everyday! Why not, how fun. Kate and her husband remain trendsetters.

[quote]If the reports are true that he was in the apt. , how would he not have seen it?

He wasn't in the apt. The reports that he was home when it happened turned out to mean "home at his own place where he'd been living apart from Kate."

R478, please take your Midol.

R491, and you should take your Ritalin.

Why does the husband even own a mouse mask? Honest question. Why does an adult man in his 50s, own a mask of a popular cartoon character for small children? Why does he have a backpack that looks like it is designated for a small boy?

There is something going on with the widowed Mr. Spade that is extremely creepy. He’s definitely showing signs of high stress, but let’s be quite frank here and admit that the mask is beyond the pale.

Something is very off with Andy Spade.

R495, Andy is also wearing a Levis denim jacket that has not been in style in like, forever.

I have sympathy for anyone who has a family member who struggles with alcoholism &/or mental illness.

That said, I agree, R495. He has a very odd vibe. What is the gossip re him in NY? Not just who he may or may not be fucking, but who is he/what kind of person is he? It could be a coincidence that the first he was seen in public besides picking up his daughter was him walking with his lawyer. Would that really be your go to person so immediately?

Re the jeans, his whole schtick is re-purposing old stuff, no? Making it popular among a certain set?

If most of us here have no idea how the hell you can commit suicide hanging on a doorknob, how do the people who succeed at it become so proficient?

Andy said he hasn’t seen any note. Do we believe him?

R497, have you taken an actual look at his Instagram? Some photos are very artsy, however, one photo of a man wearing a scary rabbit mask, while clutching a small child wearing another mask, certainly made me pause. And by “pause”, I am being quite kind and restrained.

If she was addicted to benzos and decided to flush them all down the toilet per her dad's instructions to quit, the acute withdrawal would hit her hard. I was only on Xanax for a couple months after my mom died, I told my shrink I was abusing them and I needed to taper off of them. That asshole wouldn't give me any more and God in heaven, I twitched and panicked and wanted to die. I had a grand mal seizure and decided I wanted to live instead, but I could see wanting to check out immediately to make it stop. Especially if you didn't fully understand what was happening to your brain.

Andy looks suspicious and if he was cheating it wasn't with a woman.

Here’s the pic:

Yeah, R500, that is quite an image. Words fail me.

Surely the fashion crowd has a take on him? The mommies must talk?

This is art? How did an ad guy from the Midwest get this pretentious? The variant on Martha Stewart I got, they struck it lucky.

She seemed unsupported by anyone in her life. Her husband’s bizarre antics just reinforced that.

Gross, a friend of mine follows him, and yes, there is some pretentious and some creepy shit on there, r505.

He was a branding guy but this was laying it on thick.

Andy's a fag hag

Some of the instagram photos are nice

I asked this above but wonder how Andy gets along with his brother David?

David wrote lovely things about Kate and shared sweet family snaps. Since they seemed close, I imagine the brothers get along.

I noticed David spoke well of Kate but I didn't see anything about his brother

Her husband had been gone for almost a full year, R506. He had moved out in July 2017.

I could almost see the mask as kind of a fu to photographers but Andy wearing the little yellow backpack, was that part of the cartoon character?

I apologize, that picture was not from Andy Spade’s Instagram.

I was thinking, however, were these people into living as cartoon characters, privately? I’m not kidding. Maybe it was a coping mechanism, and they wore masks around the house to lighten the mood. People do weird stuff.

There are so many voices speaking on behalf of the families. Hard to quibble that she had mental health issues when she killed herself.

In the VF piece, linked above, it mentions him as being protective of her and even changing the channel on the news if there was an upsetting story. To have encouraged that level of dependence and to bail must have added to her lost feeling. He had been renting for almost a year and was actively looking to buy an apartment. He was NOT coming back.

Her father does not sound at all emotionally supportive, seemed to require she play a role of appearing happy.

Had to be rough.

You just have to look at pictures of Andy to know that he was having sex with men and not Kate.

R481 I'm reposting the link posted by R397.

Remember she fetishized Robin Williams suicide, and likely L'Wren Scott's as well, so she at least googled how to do it.

The Police should have the note, but, being short and to the point it would have been easy for any number of people to leak its contents.

I hope there won't be a rash of copycat suicides, but it there are, I hope they are wearing Bernard the Mouse masks in Kate Valentine's honor.

She sounds unstable but he has a personal collection of toy soldiers?

This picture of them looking oh so precious makes them look like people I would avoid

^ They look like a Diane Arbus photograph.^

What is odd to me is that there are certain men in this “set” who are obviously gay, yet married to women. I imagine some of these marriages must be for the purposes of health insurance, US Naturalization, or perhaps even EU, or for companionship and access. But for me, it is odd.

Would I marry my best gay friend if he needed access to my insurance, and he was sick? Maybe. But why marry a woman when you are young, and healthy?

Anyhow, Andy is not the only gay man to be married to a woman in this circle. It is somewhat more common than one would expect.

I think this was much more than just him wanting out. You simply cannot be angry with your husband if and when he reveals he’s bisexual or gay, and wants to pursue opportunities with other men. You just wish him the very best, and remain best friends. There is no sexual jealousy or competition or shame when your husband leaves you for another man. It just is what it is, and everyone moves on to make things optimal for the child they parent together.

I just don’t get why this would be so devastating for a woman to accept.

I wonder whatwho she'll be buried in? I mean, you can't help but wonder.

Yes. That makes sense...she probably didn't just find out he was gay though. He must have broken another vow- maybe he promised to always look after her and be her partner.

r523 that's a nice idea, but harder to do. If you spent 25+ years with a man, had a child with him, built your brand with him, etc. it is not that easy to just let it go.

I remember David Spade bailing out an animal shelter with a generous cash gift about 8 years ago. He saved hundreds of unwanted pets doomed for euthanasia. Saved many more by keeping the no kill shelter afloat. He stepped right up and avoided recognition. Always love him for that.

[quote]R473 JFC, could the dumb fucks who don't understand how people commit suicide by hanging themselves from doorknobs please start their own thread to obsess over it and continue their whining that nobody is providing the level of detail they feel entitled to???

Why. Can't You. Give. Me. The DETAILS I'M ENTITLED TO ? ? Why can't you HANG ME FROM A DOORNOB like I'd be hung by any [italic]STRANGER ON THE STREET ? ? ? ?

^^^There is a separate thread on that which was started on Tuesday.

He looks like the lovechild of Tommy Hilfiger and Andy Warhol.

[quote]r487 Now the husband wears a strange mask?

Well, it looks better than his face...

All his money, and *that's* his nose?

Nobody wants to find out that their partner was never attracted to them, R523, especially if so many years have passed that they’re no longer conventionally attractive. Everybody wants an authentic relationship.

Now that he's single, it will be HILARIOUS if he gets some bad, super tight facelift.

R523, my partner left me a few years ago, and I almost killed myself.

I don't think it's that far-fetched that she would be suicidal over the demise of a 35-year relationship, something that's your history and entire world.

It's possible she couldn't face being alone and starting over in a dating world in which she is not a commodity. That's how I felt; a gay man in his 40s is roughly equivalent to a straight woman in her 50s, dating-wise, I'd say.

My life hasn't gotten better. I admire her ability to seek peace for herself.

Can that VF aricle get any gushier? What overspun tripe.

R487, very strangely similar to Breakfast at Tiffany's -- running around on the Upper East Side with a plastic mouse mask on (instead of cat and dog masks). He's a filmmaker and it feels like he's starring in one of his creations. That photo on your post looks like it could be a movie still from one of his quirky films.

Did he really wear a mouse mask, out in public, SINCE his wife's suicide? If he did, I question his sanity.

Well at least she was a success at the door knob suicide method. Props to her!

[quote]Kate had recently given birth to their first child, an adorable brunette they’d named Bea. She was in her early forties and determined not to miss out on motherhood entirely. Andy’s interest in books and movies and contemporary art had begun to eclipse his passion for messenger bags and china patterns and a white-flower-based perfume. And working together wasn’t, let’s face it, the surest route to marital bliss. “I remember this one horrible fight over whether a pink was the right pink,” Andy says. “Ugh. And then it was important for everyone to think we were so happy all the time.”

I agree, R535

[quote]I think this was much more than just him wanting out. You simply cannot be angry with your husband if and when he reveals he’s bisexual or gay, and wants to pursue opportunities with other men. You just wish him the very best, and remain best friends. There is no sexual jealousy or competition or shame when your husband leaves you for another man. It just is what it is.

Listen psycho, no one wants to think their entire life has been a lie. That rumpled, rat faced loser should never have married her in the first place if he wanted to "pursue opportunities" with men. She had the world by the tail when she was young. And still had it as an attractive, filthy rich middle aged woman. I don't know why she gave that creep the time of day, much less killed herself over him.

R523, if you're married to a woman, let her go so she can find an authentic relationship. It isn't all about YOU and what you need. It is NOT okay to use people as props to build a phony 'straight' life you hope will benefit your image. No one is fooled anyway.

Bourdain down in the other thread. God Bless! Loved the show!!

Who will be next? I say Roseanne.

R523, their lives and family are their brand. For Kate at 55 to be left, when they had been together since 20, would be devastating. If it was for a man, I could certainly understand feeling humiliated - their lives for almost 4 decades would be exposed as a fraud. Feeling replaced by him, the loss of the brand, the difficult rx with and age of the kid and the fact that her work was with him (while he seemed to have many projects independent of her) - she may have felt - what did she have left? That you cannot grasp any of that is odd to me.

No jealousy, how could she compete?

R523 sounds emotionally retarded.

The rat mask. Wtf.

Your wrong, this is worse. Imagine you are a gay man who has been with another gay man for 25 years. And he walks in and tells you he is in love with a woman and is leaving you to go breed with her. You're going to say "oh, I am so happy you found your true self"?

R523, sure, what you are saying is true, but you are looking at things from the point of view of someone who is mentally healthy.

Poor Kate was not.

R535, I am so sorry to hear this.

I wish you peace .

R523 is anything but mentally healthy.

[quote]You simply cannot be angry with your husband if and when he reveals he’s bisexual or gay, and wants to pursue opportunities with other men.

You certainly can, and almost anyone would, be very angry and upset upon learning that your partner of 35 years doesn't reciprocate your feelings for him, probably never really did, and has been lying to you for decades. You'd feel this way if you learned that your longtime spouse was a straight sex addict who'd been cheating on you throughout your supposedly perfect marriage, or a freak who had a secret second family somewhere, for instance. Finding out that everything you thought you knew about your marriage and husband was bullshit is not magically easier to accept and move on from just because the issue is he's gay.

[quote]I just don’t get why this would be so devastating for a woman to accept.

Jesus, you weirdo, she'd been with the same man since they were 20 years old (at which time, one imagines, he was likely still closeted and their relationship probably seemed normal and authentic, for who knows how long). That's her entire adult life and probably means it was the only serious relationship she had ever had.

Not only that but as business partners, they had launched this crazily successful "lifestyle" brand built on the idea that it had grown organically from the actual lifestyle of of the quirky, adorable couple who created it. Gross. But nonetheless, it's easy to understand that being one half of this couple was a huge, HUGE part of Kate's identity and sense of self. And then she hits her 50s, and learns that her identity is a lie? And is faced with being single for the first time since she was a teenager? While battling a host of other problems with mental health and substance abuse? And you think it's bizarre that she was struggling to accept this instead of just shrugging her shoulders and celebrating her husband's fabulous journey out of the closet?

R535 - seek out a doctor or therapist that can assist with your moods. Trust me, it made all the difference.

Dlers, haw about Fran "Fran Fine" Drescher?

Her husband came out after a long marriage, and she is doing okay.

To commit suicide after the loss of a partner indicates a much bigger problem is a afoot.

R523 F&F

R542 W&W

In the twitter feed of that AJ Journalist guy, freaks are bringing up Clinton and Mkultra as possible reasons for Kate’s death and that the red scarf was a significant choice.

Older ladies should ditch the tights and Peter Pan collars.

Zoey Deschannel, are you listening?

R556 The A.J. Benza podcast says police asked Andy Spade about security footage of him and a male lover entering and leaving one of the apartments, and he was deeply shaken. [bold] 36:50 mark [/bold]

It also says Kate hung herself from a high hook on a closet door, not a doorknob. They tested the scarf for DNA and hers is all that's on it.

[quote]In the twitter feed of that AJ Journalist guy, freaks are bringing up Clinton and Mkultra as possible reasons for Kate’s death and that the red scarf was a significant choice.

JFC. Because eliminating some has-been middle-aged frau handbag designer would be an obvious priority for any secret, evil global cabal.

wow, anthony upstaged kate. . now this posting is going to die

OMG, it's Farrah and Michael Jackson all over again, r560.

How could they get DNA results back so quickly?

Yes, R561. Now Andy can trash his mouse mask.

Just looked it up and realized: both Kate and Andy were born the exact same day, Christmas Eve 1962. At least that's what Wikipedia says.

Nothing major, just unusual. What are the chances.

R561 ,also, did you know that Aldous Huxley and C.S. Lewis died the same day that JFK was killed?

[quote]r560 wow, anthony upstaged kate. . now this posting is going to die

Scarves are the new dolls

Maybe Anthony Bourdain was the guy Andy Spade was seeing?

He could not live with the guilt.

[quote]JFC. Because eliminating some has-been middle-aged frau handbag designer would be an obvious priority for any secret, evil global cabal.

You have no idea! I was looking for a pic of the mouse mask on Twitter and saw people saying he picked a character from "The Rescuers" because in the film the two mice went to rescue a little girl who'd been kidnapped ... an obvious allusion to child sex trafficking, etc. etc. I worry about these crazy motherfuckers.

r556 they do that with every high-profile suicide, they claim Chester Bennington was murdered because he was Podesta's secret son and Chester was going to expose him, they also claim Chris Cornell was going to reveal a Hollywood pedo ring so had to be murdered by the evil Clintons. They are weirdly obsessed with celebs and pedos and the Clintons/Podesta.

Citalopram combined with a low dose of Topiramate can be very helpful for some people. Citalopram is an SSRI, and Topiramate is an anti seizure medication which can, in low doses, help with repetitive negative thinking.

I wouldn’t be surprised if them sharing a Christmas Eve birthday made her feel they were predestined too. Which made it harder to accept.

I mean, sharing a b-day is really not all that dramatic.

If they met as college students, they were likely born the same year. '

From there, it is a 1/365 chance of sharing an exact birth date.

I am not trying to be a dick here.

Article - Andy Spade is a Giant in NY

Maybe in circles I do not move in?

The NYPD is not the fidelity enforcers - there could be footage of him hosting an orgy and if he did not commit murder, it is an open and shut case criminally.

They met working in retail, R572.

R574, Wiki says they met at ASU!

R572, I posted that and I totally agree. I’m just pointing out the Frau “sap factor” of over sentimentalizing a CHRISTMAS EVE shared birthday. That would be catnip for a woman like her.

[quote][R574], Wiki says they met at ASU!

My, you're excitable, r574. I think they were students at ASU who both had part-time jobs at the same retail store.

Rather, it's r575 who is excitable.

R578, all right, whatever.

They were actually a pretty good success story. I like how they liked art and fashion. Too bad for Kate.

I think they probably had a beautiful friendship. A beautiful collaboration. Marriage? Not so much. But it is very very very sad. I could also see him rationalizing staying in the closet for their brand. Plus, maybe his family and her family wouldn’t have been so receptive to him coming out, so in the closet he remained. It’s a tragedy for everyone.

[quote]They are weirdly obsessed with celebs and pedos

Why are the tinhats so obsessed with pedos? I worry that it's because they like the idea and it gives them a chance to talk about it nonstop.

That's kind of my theory, r582. I think they are all pedos themselves and assume that everyone else shares their proclivities and is eagerly partaking of kiddy sex rings if wealthy and powerful enough to get away with it.

There is a real one in the UK which is being covered up. Some of the people are dead (politicians etc).

R575, while they were college students, they met while working retail.

Kate had worked in a motorcycle bar, interesting.

Well, yeah, r584; unfortunately pedos and child sex trafficking rings are a real thing, but these tinhat conspiracy freaks carry on as though virtually every rich/famous/powerful person in the world is involved. Sorry, but most people simply aren't wired that way, even if they are horrible people in a million other ways.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

R588, which child is Kate? I am guessing the oldest girl, but I am not sure.

Booy on the bottom step is a ginger!

Kate's the girl on the lower left. She had older sisters. (At least one of the older sisters and the mom have "dead eyes." I think both Katy and Andy had some really awful family background to overcome.)

I'm trying to see if we can get the whole picture visible here on DL. Kate is actually not visible above (she's to the left of the boy you mentioned.)

That's her on the bottom left with the short dark hair. She's smiling, but it could be that she was also always the emotional caretaker and trying to be the ray of sunshine for the rest of the family when they were dealing with issues. The look on the older sister's face is absolute agony.

Thanks vm, R591, R592.

R592, oh yes, of course the oldest girl could not be Kate. Kate was born in '62 and would not have been a teen in the early to mid 60s when that hairstyle was fashionable!

The buttoned denim jacket and double strapped backpack are just as strange as the mask. Is he clinging to his youth?

We haven't met his youth yet.

Yes, completely R535. I can relate. Peace to you.

Her sibs are being reported as : Reta, Earl, Missy, Eve, and Ann.

But it looks like two brothers, no?

Something doesn't add up.

R591, Ginger kid is casual and all the other family members look like they are in their Sunday best.

What gives?

Well, this is interesting. 20 years ago, in 1998, Kate’s older sister, Michele “Missy” Pozgay of Phoenix, sued an employee of her ritzy country club for defamation, alleging the golf pro spread rumors that she had been seen having sexual contact with her friend in a car in the country club parking lot. Missy’s then-husband, a lawyer, co-defended her in the case. It seems Missy is now divorced and goes by her maiden name Brosnahan now. The article is funny; you can tell the writer finds the whole thing ridiculous.

By the way, Missy’s daughter (and Kate’s niece), Whitney Pozgay, is also a fashion designer in NYC, dresses a lot like Kate, and she, too, collaborates with her husband on a fashion line. And I am sure DL will say he totally has gay face.