THEATRE GOSSIP #305, Let the Sunshine In, and Penis Out Edition.

Just sing the damn songs and we'll be happy.

if you have to do a bowdlerized version without the trangressive lyrics and nudity, why bother? it delivered a scathing message in its time.

The score is really pretty incredible. The Flesh Fantasies is extraordinary.

I mean Flesh Failures. Sorry.

For those who care, Jim Parsons isn't using a cane or wearing a boot anymore.

ROCKTOPIA!

Who knew that #305 came after #305?

OH NO!! OP here, and I could not be sorrier about the number mixup. I'm sorry!

[quote] I thought it was heartbreaking, because it really did make you feel like they were lost kids.

bullshit, we weren't "lost" we were mad as hell and raging against the "machine" We were naive in underestimating what we were up against.

Kill this thread, and please, someone with actual wit start #306.

Is there any update on the Devil Wears Prada musical? I havent heard anything about it since it was announced, quite a while ago.

Parsons is still wearing the boot.

Only Janie Dee and Peter Forbes have been confirmed to return to Follies at the National Theatre in London. Any names being floated around for the other leads?

When will Rudin start taking NYTimes ads again?

Peter Forbes is going to be in the new Alan Bennett play at the Bridge along with Tony nominee Deborah Findlay and Sam Barnett .....

I hope Harvey W starts spilling the beans about the Broadway abusers.

[quote] it delivered a scathing message in its time.

In its time. Now it looks like Antiques Roadshow.

I agree r17. Why not Dreamgirls Live?

Kill this thread. Someone start #306. OP blew it with his numbering and his incredibly stupid initial post.

The new and improved thread

oh yeah, let's look at all those "antiques" of the time,

corrupt wars, environmental destruction, sex phobias, racism.

curios of history for sure

Paying it forward

We can finish this thread first, hall monitor. Yours is no better.

Mmm, yeah, well, it has the correct number. You fucked up, r23. Just admit it and moved on. Everyone else has.

I am not the OP

That last revival of Hair was pretty sad when they invited all the boomers up to dance on stage and most of them had to be helped up the steps by ushers.

Does anyone know how OCR rites are assigned? If once a record label secures the rites to a show, do they then have the rights to all subsequent products of the show? Can they to sell the rites to a revival OCR? Or do they only secure the rites to that ONE production, and each revival is considered a new show?

I do know the rites are performed in lavish liturgical garb, r27.

Two wrongs don't make a rite.

I don't know, r29. I believe some rites have a wrong....

Why is there no edit on this sight, I mean site?!?!?

I really wish we would get a tv version of A Chorus Line with the original Bennett staging. Lea Michele IS Diana Morales!

Do we really have to go through this shit again of competing threads? This is what happens when witless people rush to create a new thread because they think they have something to say.

[quote]Lea Michele IS Diana Morales!

I will CUT a bitch!

I believe the OP of this thread was just trying to keep the discussion going, unlike our resident incel Matt, who usually creates threads very early and fills the older one up with insipid Bajour references

And I would note this thread was created first, so the only competitor is the hall monitor

Muriel -- I'm the OP of this thread. I made a mistake and used the wrong number in the title. It was an honest mistake -- and people are obviously able to still find this thread -- but having the correct number seems to matter to some people. I don't care -- it's obvious this is the successor to a previous thread -- but are you able to edit it so the title reads #306 instead of #305? Thank you.

What?

It's Friday before a long weekend bitch.

Maybe you'll manage to survive.

Maybe not.

Ban the OP for life.

The reason there will be no TIMES articles is there is no reason for a TIMES article. They looked into it, and except for one director with a few legal settlements, there was evidence of anyone being forced into anything. Why? Because on Broadway everyone is pretty much willing when they are asked.

This is a rather snappy number from Gwen.....

He's here. The phantom of the opera. He is with us, here is here.

Everybody has the rite to be rong. (at least wunce).

Dolores must have been a great Annie.

Dolores sounds like the lounge singer she was

[quote]s obvious this is the successor to a previous thread -- but are you able to edit it so the title reads #306 instead of #305? Thank you.

There's already a thread #306. Don't come running to Muriel to expect him too clean up your mistake. Just refrain from starting another thread for several months and learn your lessons well.

R46 -- Does it really give you that much joy to be a total bitch? A mistake was made. So? In the general scheme of things, is it really that important to you? With so much unnecessary cruelty and unkindness in the world right now, is it really necessary to add more, needlessly?

It was an honest mistake. Big fucking deal. Does anyone care beyond the usual busybodies?

And now we have two Broadway threads to play on. Two, two, two mints in one!

But which twin has the Tony, r48?

The two threads are annoying. Anyway, i saw Carousel last night. Oh boy. First time seeing the actual stage show. What is the hype with this show? I think it's horrible. Joshua Henry made for a very strange billy bigelow. Forget skin color, his acting was just bizarre. Despite his gruff and abuse, Shouldn't billy be a charming, rugged, good looking hustler? That's why the whole town is drawn to him. Henry was awful. I didn't like his ol man river r and b way of singing either. Jessie mueller not that good either. She was acting like Nell or something. A weird irish accent or something. The supporting actors were best except Carrie. That actress is fucking annoying. Renee fleming has a funny voice. I couldn't help it. I liked the lady who ran the carousel, Enoch snow and Jigger surprisingly. Jigger's number was my favorite. The set was lame. Another uneventful emotionless night at the theatre.

I have not seen the revival of Carousel, R50, but I wonder if Mueller's "weird Irish accent" is a result of her trying to sound like a turn-of-the-centruy Mainiac. The Maine accent is very odd, still, but was even thicker at the time the show is set; you can hear the Irish and English influence.

I'm in the midst of reading Something Wonderful, the book about Rodgers and Hammerstein, and it appears that the end -- when Julie tells her daughter that it's possible for a hit not to hurt-- was problematic even when it was first mounted. The scene was in the play from which they adapted the musical, and they grappled with how to handle that scene. In the end, they left it as-is. I had assumed that the problem on how to stage that scene was a current one, but it seems the current atmosphere has just exacerbated the problem.

^^^i didn't hear that line. The daughter said the hit didn't hurt. Still weird.

I understand Julie's reply has been cut (along with many other cuts).

But if that attitude toward abuse was prevalent in that culture at that time, why change it? The story clearly takes place at an earlier time in history, and I don't think it's problematic to have the play reflect current mores. Eliminating that conversation is only slightly less ridiculous than ART choosing to have Porgy WALK to New York. IMO.

Did he walk or ease on down the road, r54?

R46 is the OP of the other thread, which was started hours after this one. Not a good look to be so petty, Matt.

Humans sometimes hit each other. Neither ideal nor abnormal.

That's not Matt. Matt would be filling up this thread will gibberish until it was full and closed. Not everyone who complains about something (that actually needed complaining about) is Matt.

R54. I also had assumed that that attitude would have been prevalent at the time, which is why I was surprised that it gave Rodgers and Hammerstein pause when they adapted the play that Carousel is based on. The play, Liliom, was written in Hungary in 1909, so, perhaps it was more prevalent then and there, but the book, Something Wonderful, makes it clear that Rodgers and Hammerstein were uncomfortable with it.

I too think it is foolish to continue to judge plays from the past through the filter of today's morals. If the play as a whole stands up, we should be adult-enough to recognize that the morals presented on stage reflect the times in which they were written. Perhaps one way of circumventing protests and misunderstanding would be to schedule one or two after-performance lectures that put the play in the proper perspective, and show how attitudes have changed over the years?

[QUOTE]Perhaps one way of circumventing protests and misunderstanding would be to schedule one or two after-performance lectures that put the play in the proper perspective, and show how attitudes have changed over the years?

That would suggest that would-be protestors care about context and fact and so on, as opposed to just getting themselves publicity and winning outrage points.

One of these threads needs to get interesting.

Saw the tour of Waitress in DC this week. Meh.

Maybe-not-so-interesting conversation on ATC about digital playbills. A couple of people admit to reading the paper version in the dark. I'd never thought that would be a thing. At most, I look at the song list to see what the name of the last song is in the act so I can plot my intermission bathroom break.

The resident troll pretends it's so he can keep the characters straight, which seems a bit preposterous (or explains a lot about him, if true).

[quote]which was started hours after this one.

It was only started because this one had the wrong number.

If something's worth doing, it's worth doing right!

Is this old news? I'm reading the recent book about Rodgers and Hammerstein, and the author mentions that Richard Haliday -- Mary Martin's husband/manager -- was a closet case, and Mary Martin was gay, and in a longterm relationship with Janet Gaynor. That might have been discussed before, but that's the first I've seen it confirmed in a book. I always thought Martin's son Larry Hagman was handsome. He was one of my childhood crushes.

Why has NY theatre, especially broadway, sucked so much this and last year??

In short: Hamilton

I'm not sure that Hamilton should bear the entire blame, R67. I think what happened to Broadway in the last few years is what happened to movies in the last fifteen. Although there are certainly exceptions, the goal of a production -- movie or play -- is to maximize profit on the investment. Movie producers discovered that the movies that fit into that Marvel universe, or are based on a familiar story, or are part of a franchise, etc, are more likely to make more money than original stories that have rough edges and appeal to a more esoteric crowd. Theater producers discovered the same thing: plays based on stories the audience already knows -- usually a movie -- or a revival, or featuring songs the audience already knows, or simple enough that non-english speaking visitors will understand, are more likely to make more money. Granted, there will always be movie and theater producers that want to produce something that doesn't appeal to the lowest common denominator, and want to produce art instead of commerce, but they are fewer and farther between, the harder it is to raise money . It is a shame that there does not exist the arena for more experimental theater that existed not too long ago. I know real estate in NYC is expensive, but there is a huge opportunity for some enterprising art-driven producer to stage more esoteric theater as counter programing to the dross on Broadway. Perhaps it might take a Hollywood actor with Hollywood money and an ability to focus attention on new and challenging work to make something like that work. If someone of, say, Streep's fame and fortune were still a huge theater fan, she could easily start and fund a small off Broadway company that produces interesting work. I enjoy theater for what it is, but I really miss the days when I could see some challenging and thought-provoking theater. I long-ago gave up watching movies because I realized that their broad strokes and sanded-down edges no longer hold interest to me, and I hope I never feel that way about theater.

[quote] It is a shame that there does not exist the arena for more experimental theater that existed not too long ago. I know real estate in NYC is expensive, but there is a huge opportunity for some enterprising art-driven producer to stage more esoteric theater as counter programing to the dross on Broadway.

There are *many* empty storefronts in Manhattan that seem like could hold a small playing space with 50 seats. I don't know how rentals work, but it seems like a landlord would rent for a 2 month occupancy rather than keeping some of those places vacant for years.

I also think an opportunity was lost at Chelsea Market. I had often wished that they had opened up a small theater there. But at least it was nicely repurposed. Rather than tearing some of those old buildings down and throwing up upscale housing, I wish they would repurpose some for theaters.

[quote]but there is a huge opportunity for some enterprising art-driven producer to stage more esoteric theater as counter programing to the dross on Broadway.

I also think there is too much splintering going on. Theaters no longer can just produce "excellent" work. It now has to be a Latina play or a feminist play or a gay play and in trying to tick all the boxes, there is crappy theater that goes up while good plays languish because they don't tick the right boxes.

Mayor de Blasio is now putting restrictions on culture that if they aren't "diverse" enough that they will have their funding cut. So we'll get mediocre diversity crap while greater voices will be silenced.

This is a hot mess.

Greatness is no longer on the menu.

R69, it is hard to organize something such as you describe for a few reasons. There was a group Cucharacha Theater which had an arrangement that they could use empty spaces owned by a real estate management company. But no rent was charged.

The problem is that if the storefront gets a permanent rentea few months before the production, where does the theater go? Cucharacha did no tech shows and just moved on to another empty property. But to get a real estate owner to commit to that is hard.

Also, I think this is hard to sell to donors. Do not forget, retail and restaurants can make money for 12 hours or more a day. A theater only has one (or at most 2) seatings. They make money for one or two hours. This means that at least half their income has to be unearned.

Also, the empty property has to pass code for occupancy and for public assembly.

That said, I do think your idea is a good one. If the city got behind it, perhaps giving a tax break to landlords who participate, it could work. But as things are now, there really is no incentive for a landlord to open his property short term, for little rent that will not offset his expenses (inspections, insurance, etc.) that much.

r73, how do those popup stores work? Obviously, it's much easier to throw up a few racks of clothing than it is to rehearse an entire play. But I can't imagine that a popup store brings in that much money.

I recognize that many of those empty storefronts are holding out for a national tenant like CVS or Starbucks. But some of those storefronts have been empty for years. And obviously, not every location is right for a theater. It just seems like such a waste of space in a space-crunched city.

I have never seen a popup store in an empty storefront, but even so, they can easily make more than theater.

If you have a hundred seats (which would be a lot) and sell them for $20, then you can make at most $2,000/day. And you are not likely to fill 100 seats. So you might take in $8,000 week, if you are very successful. Out of which you will pay to rent chairs, lights, sound, etc.

Popup store sells items from $10 to $90. They are open all day long. If 50 people a day spend $50 they are already doing a lot better than a sold out run of a theater performance. And they do not need all the stuff that a theater does.

DeBlasio is such a fucking hack. NYC hasn't had a decent Mayor since Koch. (yes, I know. AIDS. I get it.) Dinkins was useless, Guiliani ruined the city. Bloomberg took a big dump on what was left and DeBlasio sits up in his office and lets the Twitterverse guide his decisions.

My guess is that if a landlord owns one empty storefront on a block, he owns 3. Or 4. If he allows a theater to take over the space for a month or so, it might send a signal that the space is so undesirable he can't rent it, he has to give it away to scrappy theater groups. That would have the unintended consequence of lowering the desirability of the other empty spaces on the block, thereby lowering his rent potential. I think most landlords would rather sit on an empty space than jeopardize the high rent he can get on that and the other spaces.

I think pop up stores are viewed differently. I would venture to say that most New Yorkers would get more excited about a store than live theater, so there is more excitement when a store is open for just a short period. Also, the space will be used for what it's intended to be used, so it's not like the landlord will be sending the signal that it is no longer a space suitable for a store.

I used to love going to Off Broadway when I lived in NYC, and it's a shame that it no longer exists the way it once did. True, there were always shows that had an eye towards commerce -- Little Shop of Horrors comes immediately to mind -- but, still something like that was edgy and different for the time, and it never would have been successful if it opened cold on Broadway. There's too much at stake for much experimentation. That's why it would take someone with Hollywood money who does not mind if he/she loses everything, as long as they stretch the boundaries of what theater -- cough cough, THEATRE -- can do. Maybe it will become a completely irrelevant form of art in 20 or 30 years; it's not out of the question.

R16, Like the late Richard Rodgers?

Isn’t the immersive production of Sweeney in the Village exactly the kind of storefront pop-up you guys are talking about?

r65, the sexuality of Mary and Richard was dealt explicitly with in a book two years ago, a full-length bio of Mary Martin called Some Enchanted Evenings.

[quote]True, there were always shows that had an eye towards commerce -- Little Shop of Horrors comes immediately to mind

I don't think Little Shop of Horrors had an eye towards commerce. It was a musical spoof of bad B movie horror flicks. Have you seen the original movie it's based on? It started at the small WPA Theatre (which was considered off-off-Broadway) and then moved to the Orpheum, which in 1982 wasn't exactly a desirable neighborhood (3rd Avenue, no subway nearby). The more desirable theaters were in the West Village, which was less skeevy than the East Village.

I think Little Shop was fun and kooky and how could you resist Ellen Greene and so it ran for a long time. They wanted to move the original to Broadway but Howard Ashman wouldn't let them and I think he understood that part of the fun of the musical was that you were in a small space and the thrill of the show would be lost in a huge Broadway house where the cast was "miles" away from the audience. Plus, there's no way that the Audrey tentacles could fall on the audience like they did in the off-Broadway production.

Koch was the slimiest piece of shit ever in the history of the world.

The man look like a worm and acted like one.

Did everything he could to cut out the heart of the Broadway district to put up NY's ugliest skyscraper and succeeded. He said who cared about Broadway? A preview of things to come and an inspiration to Giuliani.

Fucking disgusting closet case.

R65, That's very old news. I'm reading it, too. Surprised that Rodgers' dislike for Sondheim was so severe. They clashed while collaborating on Do I Hear a Waltz?.

Also r81, going that route enabled it to get a big, smash movie version and Miss Greene getting to recreate her role.

R79, no.

That Sweeney Todd is at the Barrow Street Theater, which has been home to a number of off-Broadway productions.

[quote]Isn’t the immersive production of Sweeney in the Village exactly the kind of storefront pop-up you guys are talking about?

Not exactly. Sweeney is being done at Barrow Street Theatre which has been an actual theater for many years. So it's not like it's a pop up theater. It is a valuable production in that it preserves the spirit of off-Broadway productions and everyone is thankful that it's running and keeping off-Broadway alive. But it's also not a new work.

Off-Broadway used to have tons of new shows, some were excellent and some were crap and I think that is what I'd like to see again, to just go into a brand new show like the Howard Crabtree musicals, Nunsense or Cowgirls or The Green Heart or Zombie Prom or Falsettoland and see a show that has not been hyped to death and doesn't have to be so showy that it moves to Broadway.

I wasn't surprised as the animosity between Sondheim and Rodgers, R83, because I had recently read Arthur Laurents' memoir, and he talks about it in more depth than Something Wonderful does. Laurents' does not paint a very nice picture of Rodgers, and blames most of the friction on Rodgers' drinking, which is perceived as more of a problem than in the newer book. He is very dismissive of Rodgers' contributions. I can see Sondheim being a bit petulant and dismissive towards Rodgers, though, as an attempt to assert that he was now a hit writer, and not the 12 year old Richard used to know. I'm sure the truth about the situation is somewhere between what is portrayed in the two books, although Something Wonderful is probably closer to the truth, because Laurents seems to be dismissive of any talent but his own.

I suspect Sondheim managed to telegraph to Rodgers that he felt he was slumming, and I think it was not a secret at the time that he was keeping a promise he'd made to Hammerstein. I don't think at that point in his life he would have been blatantly dismissive. Laurents would have been more direct, because god knows he didn't care who he offended. Rodgers was also very threatened by homosexuality, and felt that he was surrounded by gay men in the production (Sondheim wasn't out yet, but I think he was in the closet only to himself). The animosity was serious, and caused a rift between Sondheim and the whole Rodgers family; he himself has alluded to it in the last couple of years--particularly with respect to the awkwardness when Rodgers died and Sondheim conveyed his condolences to Dorothy Rodgers with a reference to their bad blood.

Laurent's memoir is very entertaining though I'm not sure if you can believe anything in it.

And the book of Waltz is atrocious and the worst thing in that show. I like some of the score very much. You can almost hear it petering out as Rogers was becoming disgusted with the whole thing. And Sondheim, Laurents and Dexter sound like 3 queens at their most obnoxious and very worst. Rodgers was homophobic but look at the work he did with Hart and Logan.

[quote]Rodgers was also very threatened by homosexuality

Is that why he never came to my Sunday barbecues?

R73 omg. i did a show at cucaracha that ran for about 8 months back in the 90's. i have such warm memories for that time and that space. and hilariously that "sentimental" theatre space was just a big rec room of cinderblock you could transform anyway you liked. really good stuff happened down there.

R68 right on. the dominant market on broadway, like film has become teenagers. period. that's it. off-broadway can no longer exist except for the non-profit theatres with shows they've produced (the public-A CHORUS LINE, nytw-RENT, etc.) that luckily keep their seasons safe no matter the response critically or financially. if something cannot be easily explained or does not win the tony or does not get nominated for the tony it doesn't stand a chance. broadway is just too expensive. both for the producer and the consumer. and it is too tourist driven now. also, it already takes 98 producers to put up a show nowadays. and even with that it seems shows have no ability to find their audience and establish. it's too expensive. it's very sad.

R70 thank you. and controversial to speak about-though it shouldn't be. this seems like an act of acceptance and diversity, and it will take things backwards and not help ultimately.

R47 yes. exactly. why the hell are people so dreadful about nothing NOTHING things? is it because they can remain anonymous? because it matters that much to them? because they didn't get the lead in the play in the 5th grade? because they are mean just like everyone on their father's side of the family? i always think if they are just being fucks--that's their life? and then i think--if they are serious about this issue and are this mean--that's their life?

R67 thank you. HAMILTON is the perfect show for right now. it is the TRUMP of broadway shows. and everyone seems to believe it. and not believe anything different. it has permanently wrecked broadway standards to a degree. it has nothing to do with rap or style or such. it is about getting everyone excited about something that isn't there. a change they think. headlines. social media. a must see moment. and nothing underneath. there used to be a culture amongst theatre-goers that if you couldn't see the hit show of the moment, you saw something else instead, sometimes making the other show also a hit. HAMILTON single-handedly killed this. if you couldn't see HAMILTON, tried to see colbert or the m and m's store. awful.

sorry--and R82. thank you. koch and reagan are EQUALLY responsible for the huge catastrophe of the AIDS crisis. both of these "leaders." both in the most powerful political positions in the 70's and 80's. one democrat fiercely. one republican fiercely. both refused to act--almost in any way, despite the mounting evidence of what was happening--because of selfish political and prejudicial reasons. both of them did this. and both had the power and ability to have vastly changed the course of the AIDS crisis when it was most important. globally. sorry. not this thread, i realize, but worth pointing out.

so basically, L-MM is the P.T. Barnum or Svengali of our age. Fab.

R92 And LMM Father worked for Koch

in what capacity, r92?

R95 Something like latino relations, or shut the spics up, shall go and check

By law, EVERY empty store front MUST become a Duane Reade

And every Promenade a Sephora, r97.....

"That would suggest that would-be protestors care about context and fact and so on, as opposed to just getting themselves publicity and winning outrage points."

And it's NOBODY's job to spoon-feed brain-dead audiences.

thanks, r96.

Sondheim was not in the closet to his friends in 1965. Everyone who worked with him in WSS knew of his orientation. And many way before that.

One surprise for me in the R&H bio was that Rodgers sent a very warm, complimentary note to SS about the COMPANY score.

I thought that was sweet, too, R101, although I did notice that Rodgers made of point of saying something along the lines of "I don't get it," but, yes, it was an otherwise nice note, acknowledging that there was room on Broadway for optimism -- Rodgers and Hammerstein -- and cynicism, a la Sondheim. I was aware-enough of Broadway to get the Company OCR shortly after it came out, but I was way too young to recognize that it was a turning point in theater, and I didn't see a live production of it until one of the revivals, so I didn't realize that even the book broke with Broadway traditions. I wonder how many people at the time realized that they were seeing something that would change book-writing, and how many thought that the book was garbage and badly-written, one vignette just leading to another?

Listening to Betsy Wolfe in Last 5 Years and wondering how we never figured out how she managed to get axed from BOTH Frozen and Carousel ... what's her damage

So why did Sondheim 2 years later in a Newsweek cover story call Rodgers a man of limited humanity? And in Rodgers autobio or somewhere said Sondheim was a beautiful boy who turned into a monster.

These two loathed each other.

Unlimited talent but limited soul, whereas Hammerstein was a man of limited talent but unlimited soul. By some accounts Rodgers treated Sondheim very badly during Do I Hear A Waltz, which must have stung particularly since Sondheim didn't want to be involved with the show in the first place: kicked in the teeth for doing what in his mind was a good deed. Possibly Rodgers didn't like being treated as a charity case by these two gay wise asses. Who knows.

" I wonder how many people at the time realized that they were seeing something that would change book-writing..."

Its influence was minimal. Sure, there was a vogue of song-cycle/revue/"concept musical" structures, culminating in A CHORUS LINE and occasional anomalies like BARNUM. But that fell into desuetude once the British mega-musicals came into vogue.

R106.I wonder if the book to Company had more influence than we think it did. Because it showed that Broadway shows didn't have to follow a traditional narrative, might it have allowed an opening for some of the later review shows, like Bubbling Brown Sugar, Ain't Misbehavin', A Nightingale Sang...et al? And maybe shows like Runaways, which didn't follow a precise plot. And even the dreaded jukebox musicals? It's not exactly a direct line from one to another, but I wonder if it is there, nonetheless. I was just going to ask if those kind of revues would ever come back, but then I remembered After Midnight, which, although I did not see, strikes me as having been one?

I expect Company was just as influential as r106 believes. And Sondheim rarely misses an opportunity to describe how Hammerstein's books broke new ground and paved the way for Company. I'm not sure I'd put the revues like Aint Misbehavin' as part of that continuum; they barely tell a story at all.

R107, there were actual revues (As Thousands Cheer, 7 Lively Arts, etc) that could have influenced reviews. Also, now forgotten musicals like Viet Rock, Oh What a Lovely War, and work by companies like the Open Theater were very popular and showed that theater does not have to be straight narrative.

Without the Open Theater actors sharing their own lives on stage, A Chorus Line would probably never have happened.

What would Hair be considered? It wasn't exactly a plot driven musical.

True, R110. There is no plot to speak of in Hair, and even the songs don't always comment on the action, furthering the story; they're just songs. Great songs, mind you, but songs. I suppose I would call it a regular narrative show, although it really doesn't have a narrative. The music, however, is so amazingly glorious, they can call it whatever they want and I will still go and see it.

So what usually happens to production rights when one member of a creative team passes away? How did Little Shop of Horrors end up on Broadway anyway after Ashman died?

Doesn't an outfit like MTI generally handle the production rights under a standard arrangement?

Of course whoever's in charge of the estate signs off on it.

As a Broadway composer once stated (and I paraphrase): A concept musical is essentially a story with insufficient narrative to warrant a linear approach. That's as good a definition as any, IMO.

[quote]So what usually happens to production rights when one member of a creative team passes away?

Usually, their estate takes over and makes the decisions. Certain estates have been extremely tight with the wishes of the creative team. Didn't Jo Sullivan create a lot of headaches with some of Frank Loesser's work?

Hair's first production at the Public did have a story. Then it moved to a club called Cheetah and then it moved to Broadway and along the way lost its story.

At the time it was thought to be heavily influenced by Viet Rock

to say nothing of Bobby Goldman

Some estates are very generous with rights, all sunshine and rainbows and puppy dogs. Fuck those assholes.

Didn't some productions of Follies have trouble because James Goldman's widow was difficult? Didn't she have casting control?

That's Bobby Goldman, r119.

Bobby Goldman stopped the Papermill production of Follies from transferring to Broadway.

Ann Miller was pissed off.

Then we got that tepid revival with Blythe Danner.

The boys of "The Boys In the Band."

EW gives "Soft Power" a B+.

Any word on which musical numbers from the nominated shows will be performing on the Tonys?

Amen, Amen, Amen, r72.

R124 -- I hope it's Bikini Bottom Day from Spongebob. I do not love the OCR, but, I admit, I can not get enough of that song. There are times when I'm walking to the store, and I just keep hitting repeat to listen to it, oh, three or four times. It charm is infectious. I particularly love the descending bass in the chorus, and the way the band comes in at the 5:20 mark just slays me. I know it's not art, but it makes me happy.

[quote]Bobby Goldman stopped the Papermill production of Follies from transferring to Broadway.

That was the "for print" version. In reality no one - especially Sondheim, who didn't care at all for Miller's "I'm Still Here" among other things - wanted it to move. But Bobby volunteered to take the heat for the decision because Sondheim had friends in the cast that he didn't want to hurt.

R2. Um, are you including McArthur Park because it's in, I assume, Summer?!? It was not in a musical before then. It was written by Jimmy Webb, after the end of a relationship he had with Linda Rondstadt's cousin. She worked for an insurance company, and they would often meet for lunch, taking a lunch to the nearby park. Some of the references are to what they would see during the lunch hour -- old men playing checkers, etc -- and the sweet green icing melting was supposed to symbolize something wonderful that is no longer good, a similar metaphor that Elton John used to greater effect, I think, in Etta James "Sugar on the Floor."

[quote]That was the "for print" version. In reality no one - especially Sondheim, who didn't care at all for Miller's "I'm Still Here" among other things - wanted it to move. But Bobby volunteered to take the heat for the decision because Sondheim had friends in the cast that he didn't want to hurt.

Horseshit, Sondheim OK's and attends anything with his name on it. Remember when he OK'd and praised Helena Bonham Carter as Mrs. Lovett? Something happened but it ain't that.

Elton John didn't write Sugar on the Floor. It was written by a British singer, a woman known as Kiki Dee.

*another British singer

R129, I sat not far from Sondheim last summer when he attended a performance of Company starring Aaron Tveit in the Berkshires. He posed with the cast after the performance.

R104, Yet, Sondheim and his daughter Mary Rodgers were very close friends.

R130 --Elton wrote it with Kiki Dee. Did she ever record it? Or did he, for that matter? I've heard a few versions, but the one that stayed me the most was on a live Etta James cd. She could sing like no one else! I saw her at Lone Star, when it was in Times Square, and she was far from attractive, but, as soon as she started singing, she was the most flawless woman on earth. I've seen her a number of times, but that was the best one.

my computer got stuck and the Sugar on the Floor posts were not meant to be in this thread. My apologies.

Elton John did NOT write Sugar on the Floor. It's quite easy to verify who wrote it. He co-produced the album on which Kiki Dee recorded HER composition.

Did Sondheim and Mary Rodger's friendship cool at some point like his relationship with Laurents? Steve and Mary didn't seem very close towards the end of her life. Did he ever resent her for talking him into Waltz?

Let me guess. The black woman played Marta. When did Marta become the designated token black role? Any of the female characters could be black.

And what is going on with Sondheim's midsection? He looks like he snuck food into the theatre.

Which is the designated black male role?

I stand corrected, R136. The Etta James live cd I had with her version listed him as the writer. It was not a major-label release -- it might have even been a bootleg of a show -- and their information was clearly wrong. Thanks for pointing out that he did not write it!

R136 -- Here's Etta's version, if you haven't heard it.

EW doesnt give Soft Power a B+-

THIS woman does. She writes romance fiction.

Who ARE these people reviewing art??

And thank you R91 for your honest assessment of Hamilton.

It was one of my shocking moments in theater going EVER.

I felt sad for the art form that day.

"it is the TRUMP of broadway shows. and everyone seems to believe it. and not believe anything different. it has permanently wrecked broadway standards to a degree. it has nothing to do with rap or style or such. it is about getting everyone excited about something that isn't there. a change they think. headlines. social media. a must see moment. and nothing underneath. "

PERFECTLY SAID AND 100% TRUE!

Not too long ago, on these very threads, you couldn't say a less-than-positive word about Hamilton without getting shrilly attacked. Glad to see that's changed a bit.

That's just because we're bored with you, r143.

Behind the scenes, Sondheim referred to the Papermill production of Follies as "Jerry Herman's Follies".

What's happening to Sondheim's midsection is that he's 88 years old.

I think his friendship with Mary Rodgers had some ups and downs, but I think they were pretty much ride or die.

I hope r145's anecdote is true; first laugh of the day in any case.

r137, how do you know that Sondheim and Mary Rodgers weren't close in their latter years? Did you know either of them?

And yes, Sondheim and Rodgers probably did loathe each other, but that doesn't mean they didn't honor each other's genius.

R138 there were two black girls in the show. One played Marta but the darker one in the front on the left played the wife/friend who karate fights with her husband. I saw the show. I liked it. I agree about the Marta character. Is it because of la chanze in the 90s revival? I feel like it started after that.

[quote]Which is the designated black male role?

My college did "Company" with a black Bobby, which I thought was pretty daring for the mid-'70s.

In "Fosse" by Sam Wasson, he wrote "Stephen Sondheim is no less accusatory: “Fosse saw the last 20 of minutes of Follies, and thought, Oh boy…and made a career out it.”

Do not speak for US R144: we are not bored of R143 AT ALL!

And R143, youre right--- it IS great!

In a number of interviews I've seen with them they only referred to each other, and rarely, concerning their relationship from decades before. You knew for a while at least Laurents and Sondheim were still close.

And Prince accused Fosse of stealing Chicago from his original production of Cabaret.

So Sondheim really disliked Herman. Of course he never had a longed for Broadway smash like Dolly, Mame or La Cage.

The Paper Mill Follies wasn't so great, so it's a bit of a myth that Sondheim and Bobbie Goldman killed a noble lost production ...

Follies isn't so great to begin with.

No it's not. But that original production...Prince, Bennett, Aronson, Klotz, Collins, Nelson, McMartin, De Carlo,...

Momma......momma...

Too many pronouns, r152. Who's the "they" in your first paragraph--Sondheim and Rodgers or Sondheim and Laurents?

If Sondheim didn't dislike Herman before Herman's La Cage acceptance speech, I'm sure he did afterward. Really shitty.

Not to bring up a subject that has been discussed more often than it needs to be, R154, but I, too, never thought Follies was great until I saw the National Theatre production. If you have not seen it, it would be worth your while to check it out.

Zach Theatre in Austin (professional Equity) is doing SUNDAY IN THE PARK, and their George is black. Thoughts? Someone mentioned on a Facebook post that Seurat was not black, but there was no acknowledgement of the comment.

R157 I meant Sondheim and Mary Rodgers. We knew that Sondheim had a close friendship with Lee Remick to the end of her life. But when M Rodgers and Steve are interviewed it seems their strong friendship was long ago in the past. Nothing is said. It just seems that way. Anybody know anything about this? We know that Steve and Laurents' friendship broke off towards the end and Mary loathed Arthur.

The Paper Mill window card is probably my favorite of the FOLLIES cards. However, the choice of Hilary (Bubbles) Knight to do the CD art was more suitable for Jerry Herman's FOLLIES, r145.

[quote]My college did "Company" with a black Bobby, which I thought was pretty daring for the mid-'70s.

OT: but my (southern) college did "Madama Butterfly" in 1968 with a black Pinkerton. He was gorgeous and sang beautifully, with a few suppressed chuckles when he described his son's "golden curls"

Yes, I think this one is still my favorite.

Speaking of black opera singers...

Speaking of black....and opera...and....

Didn't a fairly recent London revival have a black Bobbie, too? Does anyone know how it was received?

R137, Sondheim spoke with great emotion at Mary Rodgers' memorial service, even performed a song he had written for her.

Stephen Sondheim gave an emotional performance of an original new song, and Carol Burnett reminisced with Julie Andrews at a memorial service for composer/author/screenwriter Mary Rodgers Guettel, who died June 26 at age 83.

Sondheim, a lifelong friend since their teen years, who collaborated with her on the song “The Boy From…” in The Mad Show, played an original piece of music he adapted from a theme they had written together at a time “when we decided we would conquer the worlds of TV and musicals.” The music, which he described as a “song without words,” was simultaneously playful and melancholy. Sondheim said little but his mouth appeared to be working with emotion as he played solo on the Town Hall stage.

Sondheim’s friendship with Rodgers was such that he even wrote her (and her husband Henry Guettel) into the opening number of Company with the lines “Hank and Mary get into town tomorrow.”

r164 A potential new "member" of the BBDC?

Mary R was also Sondheim's source when he was trying to develop an approach to Company. I'm sure they had some spiky times, but I think they were like family. Remick, of course, was something else again.

[quote]Didn't a fairly recent London revival have a black Bobbie, too? Does anyone know how it was received?

There was a production at the Donmar in the 90s that starred Adrian Lester that helped put Sam Mendes on the map. "Parallel lines/Who meet" was sung while he was chopping lines of coke.

I still wish M Rodgers had her say about Laurents after his death. Now we'll never know.

MISNUMBERED AND STUPIDLY TITLED THREAD CLOSED.

This is Thread #306, and it is correctly numbered here:

R169 -- Probably! But he would have to play Broadway first.

R173 is the Poppins Loon, and also the OP of the too-early #306. Please ignore.

[QUOTE]that starred Adrian Lester

According to Wikipedia, Lester is the first African American to play Bobby. Quite an achievement for a Brit.

The Tony's In Memoriam 2018 has John Gilbert listed and his picture posted. I think he was the last silent film star who was still alive. Starred with Lillian Gish and Greta Garbo.

[quote]According to Wikipedia, Lester is the first African American to play Bobby. Quite an achievement for a Brit.

Ha!

John Gilbert died in 1936, you dope. If he died in the past year, he'd have been 120.

Look on the Tony In Memoriam site and tell them.

[quote] I think he was the last silent film star who was still alive. Starred with Lillian Gish and Greta Garbo.

Unless The American Theater Wing is doing your thinking for you, I stand by my statement. You're a dummy.

There are several incorrect photos there. The one for Larry Coen has been removed--I hope they find the correct photo and put it up.

And I stand by my statement. His picture is there.

Yes, his picture is there but it is one of several mistakes. The John Gilbert of that photo died in 1936.

Sorry The Big Parade and yes I know he died in the 30s but I do think it's funny.

[quote] And I stand by my statement. His picture is there.

Really? You stand by "I think he was the last silent film star who was still alive."

You must have been the moron who started this thread.

I saw the 90s London "Company." There were some wonderful acting moments and it was better thought out than any production I've seen.

Yes, Adrian Lester played Bobby. Also, one of the other men was black. And Emma Thompson's sister Sophie played, I think, Amy.

I believe it was broadcast on tv, so there may be a bootleg out there somewhere.

The one thing I hated was that they didn't hire a dancer to play Kathy and completely cut Tick Tock. When they cut Tick Tock, it cuts Kathy out. The show is set up so that April gets the butterfly monologue, Marta gets "Another Hundred People" and Kathy gets Tick Tock. Without the dance, Kathy really has no "presence" in Bobby's life.

One thing that was really great was that the couple who smoked the marijuana had toys strewn around. The wife was seen as having to do the straightening up while her husband smoked. There was a brilliant moment where she said something, he jerked his arm and she flinched. It was so subtle, but it left the audience wondering if he got angry (from the marijuana?) and hit her.

Don't they often cut Tick Tock from the productions?

The Donmar Company

Holy smokes, R189. Thank you for that!

The Joanne was awful.

Thanks, r168, for putting the record straight. I hate the revisionists on this site who pass along gossip with absolutely no credibility.

R191. I was disappointed by the whole show. It just seemed wan, and none --or few -- of the actors found their characters' inner life. It was all surface. And, yes, Joanne was not good. She tried too hard to mimic Stritch. Also, the Bobby seemed way too contemporary for a show that is supposed to take place 40 years ago. And, wow, it's hard to believe that 35 was once seen as over the hill.

But isn't it today still a bit odd for a 35 year old straight guy to never have been married? There must still be a sense of 'what's wrong with him?' Straight 35 and never had a long term relationship or marriage. Red flag.

Yes, but the show has to be period or the lyrics of a lot of the songs stand out like sore thumbs. There's never been a production of Company worthy to the original. In execution, in performance, in relatability. (I know it's not a word.) The NPH one came closest in that in sucked far less than all the others and had some moments of wow, but it's never going to really hit with today's audience unless that bitch of a book by George Furth is torn down and a playable one is put up where it OUGHT to BE.

If you rewrote the book, one could make a good argument for Company taking place in today's society where technology has replaced the need for real human contact. It doesn't solve the problem of the datedness of the lyrics, though, and what lyrics! I wouldn't necessarily want to hear those songs revised. The book has always been shit. George Furth was a terrible writer. So no loss there. But keeping Company as is and not making it a period piece is always going to make it problematic.

Hair had the same problem as Company, in an odd way. It is another musical with a fantastic score and a lame book. Further, none of the revivals of Hair felt right, because they were unable to capture the time in which it was supposed to take place, and it was too anachronistic a piece for it to ever be contemporary. Somehow, though, Paulus' version managed to make it seem both of the moment and of the time it was first performed, and, for me, it was the first revival that worked. I am not sure if it was because of her direction, or if it was just that enough time had passed, that there was no way to look at what was happening onstage as anything BUT historical; it was far enough in the past for us to observe it as history. Instead of updating Company, then, perhaps it might be wiser to emphasize how different the world was then. The problem is, that era still looks like this era, and it might be difficult to show how long ago it was.

Wow, what a shame they didn't use that poster art for the CD. I hate the Hillary Knight one with all his cutesy little "fairy" touches.

That's why I hated his Oklahoma poster. Pansy cowboys home on the range.

Don't even know why the producers okayed it.

Good theater poster art can be glorious. The New York times occasionally has an article on how certain posters were developed, and have illustrations on how the work progressed. The feature on the Frozen poster was great, and, despite what I think of the property, I do love the poster. It is clever and multi-layered. They recently had an article about the creation of the upcoming King Kong poster, which was somewhat disappointed, in that there are -- I think -- four different version, because, they say, they want each one to reach a different market. I think, rather, that they just couldn't decide, and want to be all things to all people. I immediately thought that didn't bode well for the show itself: when you create, you have to make a decision and commit to it. The producers couldn't even commit to a poster? I have no doubts that the show is a mess.

The original Broadway production of Evita had fab-u-lous artwork. It was shiny.

Are the Tony votes all in already? When was the deadline? If Metcalf had tweeted quickly , distancing herself from Roseanne, she could have swung some votes in her favor. I have a hard time believing that Barr's brand of racism has many fans in the Tony voting community.

Deadline for voting is Friday, June 8. Laurie Metcalf doesn't have social media accounts, so she won't be tweeting anything.

I want to know what Executive Producer Sara Gilbert is doing right now. Roseanne was only revived because of Sara Gilbert.

To be fair, Hillary Knight's style is perfection for bubbly shows.

Wasn't Company usually set in the present up until the 1990s, when they realized they couldn't keep making minor lyrics and dialogue changes because society had changed too much for for the whole thing to make sense in a contemporary setting? The original 1970 script and Playbill stated the place as New York City and the time as NOW. I think the licensed version now specifies the 1970s but I'm entirely open to correction on that.

Company is like A Chorus Line. Eventually, they had to put it into historical context. The ACL Playbill eventually had to start putting "1975" in their Playbill.

It's funny though that Sondheim allows them to update Follies to try and make it relevant. I got through Brenda Frazier...if you don't know who she is, go look her up on the internet, ya lazy people.

Bless you, r206.....

One of Hillary's best.....

Shirley Temple is in the revised "I'm Still Here"... not Brenda Frazier. Although the Roundabout FOLLIES was still set in early 1970s.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a production of Follies that wasn’t set in the early 70s. The timeline wouldn’t work out otherwise.

Bomer is SO wrong for Donald. Frederick Combs may have had a hot bod and he could look very handsome from the right angle. But from other angles, his face could look very charactery and ethnic. The overall impression was "nerdy wallflower who's had something of a gko [sp?] up". Matt Bomer has never been less than the prettiest in the room. Someone who looks like he does is not believable as a caretaker for Michael. A Bomer would be snatched away. He'd have men ringing his phone off the wall.

When is that Donmar production supposed to be taking place. I thought it was the early 70's, but the cocaine and the mention of prozac --which wasn't introduced until the late 80's -- made me think otherwise. It just doesn't work to set it in that time period.

One other thought: so many of the singers were out of key. Do you think that they will start running vocals through an auto-tuner when they record these plays? It's not possible to do it live, because the house will hear the unaltered note, but what we hear on the tapes is what was run through the mixing console, not what was heard in the house. Everyone's mic could be filtered by an auto correction. I suppose that can be done live in the bigger houses, where the audience is more likely to hear the speaker and not the human. Does anyone think this will happen? Possibly for the Hair broadcast, which is mostly music, and none of the performers would want to sound less than their best? I am surprised it has not been done yet.

[quote] Laurie Metcalf doesn't have social media accounts, so she won't be tweeting anything.

I'm sure she's not regretting that decision today.

The Papermill Follies was a handsome production, but I thought several of the leads were miscast. Donna McKechnie is a great singer and dancer, but I've never thought of her as a great actress. I thought she was pretty bad.

Still, it was better than the revival we got on Broadway a few years later.

I haven't seen the original cast, which I'm sure was beyond brilliant, but for my money, the best production I've seen has been the National Theatre one. They seemed to go back to mostly the original book and what a difference that makes. It'll never be a brilliant book, but adding back a few bits here and there really did help. Plus, I loved the concept of a documentary news crew recording some of those asides that usually don't make a lot of sense.

Wasn't the Papermill production broadcast on PBS? Maybe I'm confusing it with another Papermill production; several have been broadcast over the years.

The Papermill Follies was set to be filmed for PBS I think. I want to say they even did a demo or a rehearsal or something, because one of the bootlegs going around is very pro-shot looking.

[quote]the best production I've seen has been the National Theatre one. They seemed to go back to mostly the original book and what a difference that makes. It'll never be a brilliant book, but adding back a few bits here and there really did help.

They didn't add back enough bits.

I found this old Playbill article about the Papermill production's failure to transfer to Broadway that includes this comment:

[quote]The show was also in talks with PBS to tape and broadcast the production, but Paper Mill spokesman Dennis Dougherty said (May 28) the video version was also definitely shelved.

How does one set Follies after the early 70s? It doesn't makes sense if it's later than that. Most of the ex Follies girls wouldn't be ambulatory and the leads would have been pushing 60. At that point you'd be for Christ's sake get over your regrets we're sick of hearing about them. At 50 you can be rueful but at 60 it's arrested development.

HAIR LIVE ON NBC----

like..................................how????

[quote]I want to know what Executive Producer Sara Gilbert is doing right now. Roseanne was only revived because of Sara Gilbert

The Talk must have pre-taped because there was not a peep unless Gilbert asked to not speak of it.

The Paper Mill production filmed for PBS was "Crazy For You"

The truth is, hardly anyone knew who Brenda Frazier was anymore by 1971, much less today. But, if you know who and what she was, it's a funnier lyric than "Shirley Temple,"which is just lazy writing on Sondheim's part. They aren't equivalent jokes. Couldn't he have found someone else beside Temple to make a similar statement if he was worried about people not knowing Brenda Frazier?

He shouldn't have tinkered at all. It's a period piece and that's the only way it works. If nobody knows Brenda Frazier, nobody will know Beebe's bathysphere either, or the 5 Dionne babies. They evoke a time and place, and that's lost with updated lyrics. I think the same's true for Company: it doesn't benefit from "modernizing."

I thought the NT production was very good. Unfortunately--and I know I'm in the minority--I really didn't care for Imelda Staunton's Sally at all.

I think that Shirley Temple change was introduced in the 1987 London production, presumably as Temple was better known to non-American audiences.

And I agree that performing the snippets of conversation as if to camera in the NT production was a masterstroke. For such a cynical and adult musical, I’d always found those expository sections to be twee and clunky.

I'm with you r223. When I first heard the song "I'm Still Here" I didn't know who Brenda Frazier was. I went and looked up who she was. But her name is very specific. She would have been all over the news and these Follies girls (Carlotta, Sally, Phyllis) would have followed her life and would have taken their cues from her glamourous life. At the time, Shirley Temple was a little girl and the Follies girls would have no interest in copying her fashion, etc.

I really thought the National Theatre's production was the best I've seen. I've never liked the song "One More Kiss" but Josephine Barstow really drew me into the song. Here's this frail old lady, looking so pitiful, and it's almost like she is begging for time to stop. She really got to the heart of the show and, for me, was one of the standouts in the production.

And I think Imelda Staunton was the weakest link. She didn't seem "fragile" enough to be Sally.

Beebee's Bathysphere comes in the midst of a run of lyrics--and in 71 would have already been forgotten. Brenda Fraiser/Shirley Temple is in the punch line spot--and in 71 would have been known.

What is R219 going on about? No one has ever seriously considered changing the period of Follies.

r225, Barstow was a revelation; I was completely knocked out by this ,as you say, frail old lady, who sang it so beautifully and with such feeling, and was also beautiful to look at. That dress! Her younger self! Heaven.

When Staunton had her breakdown I had to stifle a guffaw--she seemed to be channeling Lon Chaney in Phantom of the Opera.

You could argue that Donald has no problem getting a fella by way of his looks, but is pretty twisted in the head about a lot of things—hence doing menial jobs in the Hamptons, seeing a shrink regularly, and hiding from life in the pages of books. I think Donald Combs was even sexier than Bomer, because he wasn't so obviously pretty, and it's not beyond comprehension that Bomer has not been "snapped up" by someone. Seems he doesn't want a relationship.

R226 It was a reference to R206.

Sometimes the Sondheim updates take away from the show. For example, in Company, everybody holds their breath when "You Could Drive A Person Crazy" is sung. Everyone wonders, "Are they going to use the fag lyric?" Everytime I see a production of Company, it's no longer about the song, but more about will they/won't they.

The Brenda/Shirley change isn't updating....

When I saw Company again decades after having seen the original and there was the gay scene it was a total wtf? to me. Was this in Furth's original book and they cut it? Also I found it offensive as in saying see people Bobby is 100% straight so you don't have to worry that homosexuality is his real problem.

He's a compulsive tinkerer.

PBS also broadcast the Papermill Show Boat.

Also Crazy For You? Yes?

R225, the Shirley Temple change was in "Side by Side By Sondheim" which was 1976. Millicent Martin did one of the best versions of the song ever.

I felt Imelda came across better in the taped Follies than she did in the taped Gypsy. Maybe she was a bit too manic and most of the keys were too low, but she was fine. Not a revelation. Sally has to be the most difficult character in that show to cast. There has to be a fragility there, almost like Blanche DuBois. Not many people can pull that off without being twee or silly.

Imelda is more of a broad, which is why (if you saw her live and not on the BBC broadcast) she was so excellent in Gypsy. She'd have fared better as Hattie or Stella in Follies. It's the same reason I'd never want to see someone like Patti LuPone or Ethel Merman play Sally. They don't project fragility.

While I was watching the National's Follies, I was thinking about what a stinkeroo the book is. Sally wants Ben but Ben wants Carlotta. It's like high school. I think they could have written a better book.

Mean Girls. I just saw it. There are a few moments, but for a show that is surprisingly heavily music oriented, dear God does that score suck! It is barely serviceable. If the songs were so bad, why didn't they cut some of them and replace them with a few lines of dialogue. The pedestrian score ruins the entire play. I know the composer is married to Tina Fey, but why didn't the director or producers pull her aside and tell them that he has to go? Or why didn't they hire someone who could have collaborated with him? It is worse than dreck. The score is absolute crap.

Yeah, the Follies book isn't very good, but I'm not sure how much rewriting of the Follies book can be done without the permission of the Goldman estate, meaning Bobby.

The characters of Sally, Buddy, and Phyllis I get. They all seem like real people for the most part, but I always pity the poor bastard playing Ben. There's NOTHING there. He's the one who should have gotten "Ah, But Underneath" in London. I've never been impressed with anyone's performance as Ben and I don't think any of the actors are to blame. It's like they forgot about him as they were writing it. He's just a wealthy, straight, white man. There's not really any depth.

This is why I've always wanted to see a movie version of Follies, because that's really the only time you can tweak the book of a show and no one cares, because you can say "oh, that wasn't cinematic" and make changes. Wasn't Aaron Sorkin signed on to so the screenplay at some point? Maybe he could have made something out of it. At it's core, Follies has great potential to tell a story about aging, loss, obsession, etc. but besides some good scenes and zingers here and there, it never really works. Sally spirals into wanting to kill herself out of nowhere and Ben has a nervous breakdown out of nowhere. I always felt like that needs to build up more.

A Sorkin version would last five hours.

While I was watching Follies at The National, I was struck by what an avant garde piece of theatre it is. It’s so clear all the principle creators just said, “Fuck it. We’re doing what we want.” It’s completely uncompromised.

Phillip Quast was excellent as Ben.

[quote]Yeah, the Follies book isn't very good, but I'm not sure how much rewriting of the Follies book can be done without the permission of the Goldman estate, meaning Bobby.

Bobby hangs out on the Ashley Madison dating site. Why don't one of you get a date with her, get her drunk, get her to sign a release form and then we can rewrite the Follies book. It's your duty to preserve the American Musical Theater.

Yes, she wrote a one-woman play about her dating/sex experiences.

Imelda did play Hattie in the 2007 Follies In Concert. Maria Friedman was Sally.

I agree that Imelda was better in GYPSY (on stage...). She was mosyly good as Sally but I hated her "Losing My Mind" horror movie face pulling. And she was costumed very unflatteringly in that number. They should also improve Janie Dee's Lucy/Jessie dress for the return engagement.

I'd like Jenna Russell to play Sally. Her voice seems to sit higher than Staunyon's even if she's shouty at times in this vid. It's a shame Ruthie Henshall can't sing it satisfactorily.

I was impressed with the Madrid Ben. He had mystique.

I don't think Ben's breakdown came out of nowhere with McMartin. He was pretty far gone in the run up to Could I Leave You.

Who’s the Madrid Ben? Is he Spanish? Was this on Jane The Virgin?

I think Ben's breakdown is very clearly set up. Too Many Mornings and the subsequent scene show a man not thinking clearly or behaving rationally.

But yeah, when the actor playing Ben plays those bits as a man genuinely transformed by Sally's "love" then the grounding isn’t there.

I never quite understood the Buddy character, either. I always thought that one of the things Sally regrets the most about her current life is that she is poor, and, in previous productions, Buddy always seemed like a used-car salesman. In the National Theater production, though, it is clear that Buddy and Sally are wealthy, which I think threw the dynamics off. I always assumed that Sally pined not just for Ben, but for a comfortable life. She clearly has the latter, so it is kind of crazy to carry a torch for anyone for that long. Not to rewrite the book, but I wish there were something in their past to have kept her holding out for Ben. I know she has the 2 kids, but, maybe it can be rewritten, say, for her to have gotten an abortion when she was younger, and it was Ben's kid, and, in the process, somethign happened and she can no longer have kids. So maybe she's been pining for kids all those years, and it manifests itself as still carrying a torch for Ben. It's a good thing I'm not a playwright, because that idea might suck, but I think the play needs SOME reason that Sally is still in love with Ben, because her obsession with him makes you lose sympathy for her. She's just flat out crazy, and we need to like her in order to feel sad for her when she realizes she has been foolishly hopeful.

Sally's life is comfortable, but Ben's life is glamorous and exciting, and he and Phyllis probably have their pictures in the society pages. That's what she wants, and Buddy can't give it to her.

Broken lives.

Mary would have been a sensational Phyllis.

Maybe Ben was just a great fuck and made Sally feel beautiful. Sometimes, that's enough to keep a spark alive. She loved him before he was rich and powerful. Buddy was a safe alternative, but there was obviously never a spark there. I'm sure the thought of being in the society pages crosses Sally's mind, but I don't know if she's longing to be rich or anything. She'd just rather be by Ben's side than Buddy's. Sally's always made sense to me that way until she completely misreads everything after Too Many Mornings and thinks she and Ben are all of a sudden getting married. I feel like Ben should have said something more to lead her in that direction. They should have at least fucked and maybe he says "I love you" in the heat of the moment or something.

OMG, r254, Buddy and Sally, I can't believe I've never made that association before. Was that a deliberate reference on Goldman's part, a subconscious one, total coincidence? I feel so stupid never having thought of that all these years.

I'm guessing total coincidence.

The reality of their situations is that Buddy and Sally had to stay together. Nothing left. There was no chance that Ben and Phyllis wouldn't get a divorce. The reunion obviously emboldened her

I thought the final scene suggested that Phyllis and Ben would not divorce

They did Follies in Madrid a few years ago. I don't know any of the names, hence Madrid Ben.

Jesus Christ, why are you people still posting here and not on #306?

Or is this the Follies Discussion for Losers thread?

FOLLIES for LOSERS......Madrid

Oh why not.

I like the Buddy and Sally reveal from the Dick Van Dyke show.

I wonder if audiences in Madrid knew who Brenda Frazier was?

"Follies has great potential to tell a story about aging, loss, obsession, etc."

That's EXACTLY what the show does...and does it brilliantly. Every one of those themes is set up in the premise of the libretto and articulated in the score, which does the heavy lifting. The show didn't get its legendary reputation because it didn't WORK, for Sweet Gesu's sake . And, like NIGHT MUSIC, the show only grows more profound from a perspective of age.

They could've worked in a cameo for Pickles. I can see her as a former showgirl.

Rob as Ben. Laura as Phyllis. Alan Brady as Weissmsn. Millie as Hattie. Jerry the dentist as...um...there aren’t really any other male leads, are there?

Yes, Follies is wonderful story about aging. I was not struck by its beauty and sadness until I saw the NT production. I had seen previous productions and have always been unmoved. This last time, though, I was profoundly affected, mostly because I am now the age of many of the characters in the play, and, like them, realize that some things I have spent years wishing for are not meant to be, and that, for the most part, my glory days are behind me. Most of that feeling was summed up with the version of "Im Still Here," which, instead of being a song of survival, struck me for the first time as a sign of invisibility: yes, I have done all these things, but I'm now forgotten, but, dammit, I'm here! Don't pretend I'm invisible or don't matter. Anyone of a certain age who has eaten at the bar of a trendy restaurant will feel the invisibility the lyrics evoke.

The interview with Barstow on the NT Podcast helped make it clear why she was so great in this production. She and the director had decided that Heidi was dying so she was coming back to say goodbye to everything. She did not come out just to sing a number but rather to perform the climax of a play that powerful even if the audience had not seen the beginning of it.

I wanna clear up something about the boys in the band cast album. Someone said it said broadway cast on the label. I have the original cast album and it says original new york cast album.

Some pressings said Original New York Cast, others said Original Broadway Cast. See images of cover and LP labels at link.

Wait , I'm confused. Why was there a cast recording of Boys in the Band if it weren't a musical? Was it just the dialogue? Was that standard, back in the day?

It's the whole play. All dialogue. Not as good as movie. R273 oh wow. That's so weird.

There have been many, many recordings of plays, mostly of studio casts (for Shakespeare, Sheridan, Goethe, etc.) but also original Broadway casts every now and again. Death Of a Sa;lesman was recorded, though by then Lee J. Cobb had left and Thomas Mitchell, his replacement, [played Willy Loman.

Virginia Woolf was recorded, too. And I have a CD of a previously unreleased recording of John Osborne's The Entertainer with Oliver, Plowright, and the others, taken down when the show moved to the Palace Theatre from the Royal Court.

A lot of plays were recorded with their original casts back in the day, yes, R274. The most famous (and recently reissued on CD) example being Uta Hagen and the cast of Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf, but there were others. There were also casts assembled to read and record a play, the way L.A. Theater Works and the British company that records Shakespeare plays with noted British actors do today. I believe Ma Rainey's Black Bottom is one of the more recent plays that did this, and that was back in 1984. Audra recorded Lady Day complete with all the dialogue, but since that play is mostly Billie Holliday songs, I don't know that we can truly count that. (Ma Rainey has songs, too, of course).

[quote]Sally's life is comfortable, but Ben's life is glamorous and exciting, and he and Phyllis probably have their pictures in the society pages. That's what she wants, and Buddy can't give it to her.

No probably.

Sally: “You married Ben. I know. I read about you in the magazines. I even saw your living room in Vogue. It’s blue.”

r264 Doesn't a lot get lost by translating Sondheim? The rhymes alone (or especially): personable/coercin' a bull, indiscriminate/women, it.

I should have worn green. I wore green the last time.

I have both the BITB and Virginia Woolf cast albums

But it was highly unusual to do a full cast recording of a play. Especially for the A&M label, which specialized in pop music. But BITB was a hot commodity for the gays (and others) in those days , and those of us who were around then were thrilled to get to hear the cast perform it.

A few years ago at Goodwill I found:

J.B. with Raymond Massey, Christopher Plummer, and Nan Martin

MacBird with Blanche Devereaux and Stacy Keach

and

Major Barbara with Maggie Smith

And there's a version of the l-o--o-ng STRANGE INTERLUDE by O'Neill. With Geraldine Page and Jane Fonda. Would love them to reissue on CD. And I have LYSISTRATA with Hermione Gingold!

Wow, I have tons of these plays digitized (there are outlets online that sell them) but wasn't aware of the LYSISTRATA. Still trying to find mp3s of Miller's AFTER THE FALL with Jason Robards and Behan's THE HOSTAGE with Julie Harris.

How many records were in the set, r284, or was it recorded 16 rpm?

Dahlings, speaking of great acting on vinyl.....

Here's Elaine Stritch doing "Who's Afraid Of Virginia Wolf."

I had to dl that Stritch Woolf and play it back at a slower tempo just to be able to listen to it. Way too zippy otherwise.

Wow. I had no idea those recordings of plays existed. How bizarre and odd, and how wonderful that some legendary casts were recorded.

Out there in the world, there's vinyl and cassettes of Miss Shirley Booth doing Dorothy Parker stories and Miss Maureen Stapleton doing Shirley Jackson stories.

Tallu does The Waltz....

r285, there are 5 LPs in the STRANGE INTERLUDE. Ebay has one for 39.95. Where online are the MP3's?

Stritch also has a Dorothy Parker collection; used to have it on cassette.

Why so she does, r293!

[quote]Wow. I had no idea those recordings of plays existed. How bizarre and odd, and how wonderful that some legendary casts were recorded.

I remember playing an LP of "Incident at Vichy" for my high school social studies students c. 1970

If it hasn't been mentioned, at least we have an audio recording of Cliff Gorman's LENNY performance.

The Dick Van Dyke show "Follies" MUST have this interpolated as the big 11 o'clock number.

The Owl and the Pussycat soundtrack was certainly dialogue heavy, but I'd rather hear Diana Sands reciting it.

I do not recall ever seeing that photo of Streisand with the hands on the bra, and the heart on the private part. I'm surprised it didnt cause a huge uproar when it came out. I was young at that time, but I think I would have noticed it. I remember the commotion caused by Bowie's similar outfit when he was on Midnight Special.

Don't forget the "Doris" on the ass, r299.

My God, it was the movie's selling point, r299. Oh, the memories...!

I sang as Master of Chant in my Catholic parish when I was a wee bairn of 14. After one of the Masses, I had breakfast at the convent with the good Sisters. One Sunday morning, I remember reading the article below over eggs and potatoes.....

There was an AFTER THE FALL wIth Robards and Loden, and a wonderful SCHOOL FOR SCANDAL with Gielgud, Richardson, Geraldine McEwan. The LYSISTRATA co-stars Stanley Holloway. Best of all, I have a MUCH ADO with Albert Finney, Derek Jacobi, Ian McKellan, Maggie Smith, Lynn Redgrave, Robert Stephens, and as one of the "other watchmen" Michael York. Never heard it because I threw away my turntable!

I'm trying to remember. Was the 1973 Much Ado televised on PBS or a network?

Re Follies, The talk of the world in 1935 and 1938 would not have been forgotten thirty years or so later by mature adults at a reunion. Carlotta, is a successful star, maybe sedond-rate, but was young when in the follies, wasn't able to handle a song she had, As she says, she gave 'em sad, they laughed. They cut the song. Just another thing she had to go through to get to where she is now. The laugh lines with the boys are the lead-in to her number, which is NOT the song cut from the follies. No matter what Wikipedia says. Where do they get that stuff? Carlotta begins to tell all she has gone through … the rueful I'm Still Here. Not bitter, not belting, Look at old videos of DeCarlo singing … see/hear the way the song should be sung.

It was raunchy for its time r299. Also “shocking” though funny to hear a major star of Streisand’s stature to say “fuck” in a movie. Times change!

What is the line in "Into The Woods" from the stepsisters that says, 'One should never wear green...or mauve?" How does that line go?

[FLORINDA] Never wear mauve at a ball...

[LUCINDA] Or pink...

[STEPMOTHER] Or open your mouth...

Thank you r307. Sally's green dress in Follies got me to thinking about the dress colors in ITW and I couldn't quite remember how the sequence went.

R304 -- I always thought "I'm Still Here" was the song she sang in the Follies until I saw the version with Elaine Paige, where it was clear she was singing about her experience, not singing her old song. For me, though, no one has done it better than Bennett in the NT revival. It's funny that she says she always made them laugh, when she made me cry.

Is Luther Billis in South Pacific supposed to be a closeted gay man? I just watched a recording of the Lincoln Center production, and I can't tell if he was written that way, or if that is something that they added, or if I just imagined it. And: say what you will about Kelli O'Hara,but her voice is glorious. "Twin soliloquies" is one of my favorite songs, and she sings it like an angel. I think she overdoes the blushing souther gal bit a bit much, but, when she sings, all is forgiven.

[quote]Wow. I had no idea those recordings of plays existed. How bizarre and odd, and how wonderful that some legendary casts were recorded.

It wasn't weird for the times, there were no VHS/DVD's, HBO where people could watch the show. Broadway albums, musical and straight plays were big business. "My Fair Lady" OCA was number one for fifteen weeks when people had to go to the store and get it. Most people never made it to NY to see Broadway shows and saw glimpse thru Ed Sullivan. If they weren't on the summer stock tour they may never see a live show at all. Records were hugely popular. Like "War Of The Worlds" people listened to stories.

Virgina Woolf was so popular they did the same thing with the movie, two soundtracks, one of the score and one of all the dialogue.

Movie version

And I bought the soundtrack dialogue LP of VIRGINIA WOOLF at Colony Records in the mid-70s for a $100!

[quote]And I bought the soundtrack dialogue LP of VIRGINIA WOOLF at Colony Records in the mid-70s for a $100!

Colony Records had EVERYTHING...at twice the price. I remember a few years after Carrie, they had Linzi Hately's cd, where she sung one or two of the Carrie songs. It was something like $40. They were calling it an "import."

Going beyond plays, there were albums of bits from the first season of "Saturday Night Live" (then known as "NBC's Saturday Night") and the movie version of "M*A*S*H."

Were any of the recorded cast albums played on the radio? Like NPR, maybe?

The prices at Colony were so insane I always wondered who bought their (admittedly fascinating and rare) stuff.

Now you find the same things on ebay for comparatively very little.

The one thing about Colony Records was that their staff knew their shit. Granted, every clerk was an expert in a different type of music, but there weren't any dummies that worked there. They were hardcore.

Well they were geeks. Unfortunately concerning the arts they're a dying breed. You used to find them in record and book stores. You wouldn't want to see them eating lunch but they were fascinating to talk to.

I loved going into Colony's basement and flipping through their old records. At Colony was the first time I saw the Joel Grey album cover where he shows his nipple. I was flabbergasted. You never knew what you were going to find. Like r317 said, fascinating and rare.

You were flabbergasted that Joel Grey showed his nipple?

[quote]You were flabbergasted that Joel Grey showed his nipple?

Yes. It just wasn't done among Broadway stars. They didn't have to titillate, they had talent!

And then Karen Ziemba flashed her hooters in Playboy and I knew it was the end of the Broadway star.

The actor who played Lt Cable on the Live at Lincoln Center South Pacific is Andrew Samonsky. Holy fuck he is hot. I had not heard of him before. He screams BDF. He doesn't seem to be terribly active, and he also seems to be straight. Any stories?

Andrew Samonsky did The Bridges of Madison County on tour with boring old Elizabeth Stanley

Whoever recommended No Pickle, No Performance in a previous thread was right. It's a fucking PISSER. That guy dishes and dishes right from the very beginning. He basically lays Renee Taylor out flat in the first five pages and goes on from there. I am LOVING it.

On my first day in NYC, I was sitting on the patio of the Hotel Empire enjoying a croissant and cafe au lait and Andrew Samonsky went walking by dressed only in a thong and flip flops.

Andrew Samonsky is married to Kate Reinders and they recently had a son. I remember seeing them both in a 54 Below anti-Trump show last year around this time and she was about to pop... seem like very happy, fun and down-to-earth folks. They both sounded fantastic. Reinders recently stood by for Laura Benanti in the Amy Shumer/Steve Martin play and went on a few times (surprise!). She was fucking perfect in the Bernadette GYPSY way back when, btw.

Someone said Andrew Samonsky?

[quote] "My Fair Lady" OCA was number one for fifteen weeks when people had to go to the store and get it.

The My Fair Lady OBCR was The Billboard bestselling album for 1957 and 1958. A Henry Mancini album of music from the TV show Peter Gunn was best selling album for 1959; The Sound of Music OBCR for 1960; the Camelot OBCR for 1961; the West Side Story soundtrack for both 1962 and 1963; and the Hello, Dolly! OBCR for 1964.

Those were the days.

R325, What he wrote about Ginger Rogers and her then husband is hilarious.

Well R329, there IS Hamilton and Evan.

(oh god help us)

I would gladly go to the cocksucker ball if Somonsky were there. You just know he has a huge one.

Much Ado was broadcast on CBS. They had a deal to do TV versions of Public Theater productions, but the second one was Sticks and Bones, which was too hot to handle for commercial TV, so the deal was cancelled.

Still trying to figure out how someone could sing a song in the Follies about events and cultural phenomena that were decades in the future.

Does that Mancini Peter Gunn album feature any of Miss Lola Albright's menthol-cool stylings, r329?

R334. Easy! When I was, say, 14 when I first discovered the Follies OCR, I had no idea when most of what she sang about happened. It was all ancient history to a 14 year old. I got it in my head that it was the song she sang IN the Follies -- especially since it sounded like one of the pastiche melodies -- and I had it stuck in my head that that's what it was. You just get believe something is what it is, until something happens and you think, hey, wait a minute...I've been wrong all this time. Plus, it was never one of my favorite songs, so I didn't pay as much attention to it as I did the songs I preferred.

All well and good r336.

Except that it sounds absolutely nothing like any of the pastiche melodies.

[quote] What he wrote about Ginger Rogers and her then husband is hilarious.

I haven't gotten there yet (I just finished the Gloria Swanson chapter), but I am looking forward! Thanks. : )

r334,I salute you-- you are the lone voice of reason crying out in the wilderness.

How do you get to be 14-years old and never hear of Herbert or J. Edgar Hoover, the Dione Quints, or any one of the wide ranging refs, not pick up on the film history of sloe-eyed vamp to mother to camp---not to mention why a young shoe girl would be singing of a life full of experiences n that no one in thei 20s could possible have had?

[quote]young shoe girl

It was my life-long ambition to be a young shoe girl.

But I could not afford the shoes.

[quote] Well [R329], there IS Hamilton and Evan. (oh god help us)

NO! NO! Not even close. In those day people had to get off their fat asses and go and buy it. They had to make an effort, those album successes were earned. And you couldn't make a copy of your friends. When "Hamilton opened I got an e-mail from The Google Store to buy the cast alum and I got the entire 46 track album for $1.99 in two clicks of the mouse, exhausting I tell ya. No where near getting in a car, a subway or riding a bike to a store, finding the record department and buying it, and sometimes get it signed.

June, June.....

It was fun and exciting to go to a record store to buy a newly released obc. It was also fun to buy older ones to shows you had never seen. It was for a theater queen in training a great experience. They were such treasures you almost didn't want to open them. But of course you immediately did.

I am though speaking of lps of course. CDs didn't have the same aura.

I used to spend hours in record stores, lazily flipping through bin after bin. Some stores had incredibly knowledgable staff, and, if you liked one thing, they would be happy to suggest others like it. Colony was good, but I always thought it was a touch stuffy. Tower Records near Lincoln Center, despite being a chain, had a very knowledgable staff, and they had pretty much everything you could think of. Although it is possible to get anything you want online, it just isn't as much fun as discovering it in a record store. When something is available at the click of a button, it just loses its luster. Same with collecting: it used to be fun to visit flea markets or antique stores to find that ONE item to round out a collection. Now, you can just go on ebay and find whatever you want. The thrill is gone.

Personally, I find clicking a button remarkably lustrous.

Well you certainly spend a lot more money than you would in a store. That click is so easy.

Not always, R348. I used to walk out of record and book stores with tons of bags, after spending a bunch of money. I would think I had to get that record or that book NOW or I will never see it again. Also, someone at the record store would keep suggesting more and more albums to buy. Now, knowing that I can get whatever I want, whenever I want it, I know it's there, so I don't feel the need to get it.. I actually buy less now. You would think the opposite is true, but it's not.

I LOVED Korvette's in the Detroit area. I remember the day that 110 IN THE SHADE and JENNIE were released on the same day. Bliss.

Me, too, R325. The T. Bankhead story is fantastic!

I did not, R326, never wear flip-flops.

so very pleased there are those on DL understanding "I'm Still Here" is NOT a number Carlotta had cut from when she was in the Follies. So many theater pages, even Wikipedia, have it as the song she sang .... wrongly, of course. Leave it to DL-ers to know! Congrats.

Jesus, that No Pickle book is almost $900 on Amazon! A bit too pricey for me.

[quote]not to mention why a young shoe girl would be singing of a life full of experiences n that no one in thei 20s could possible have had?

I should have worn green. And heels.

One just sold on eBay for $19.99, r353.

You should have worn stilts, r354.

Or you could go to the internet archive and check it out for 14 days for free and read it on your computer like i'm doing right now.

r357, what is the website for that? I'd like to read it

There are used copies on amazon.com selling for as cheap as $20.00.

It's called internetarchive .com

But you NEED to wait til I'M finished reading it!

(It's ok, they have waiting lists, so they'll let you know.)

r360 it's .org, not .com.

Maybe the $900 copy is unabridged. Or has an introduction or something.

I'm so sorry, it is .org. I've been using the link in the email whenever I want to sign on, so I haven't been typing the address, just clicking. It's really a terrific resource for out of print books. I don't understand why so many of these books can't be reprinted digitally. i would have happily bought this on kindle for $10.

R392, It's the book's condition that determines the price. Most used books on amazon.com are former library books from across the country.

I just saw Frozen. WTF is wrong with Disney?!? The one huge hit they have is Lion King, which was creative and imaginative, yet every other one of their movies to plays have been pedestrian and obvious and too literal. You would think that they would take more chances with the source material, or at least with production values, to give the story a reason to be on the stage. Frozen was boring as fuck, and the special effects were mediocre. There was no joy or magic in the entire production. I saw the amusement park version they did of it on youtube, and I thought it was more creative and enjoyable. Don't they know that playing it safe is the worst thing you can do?!? I didn't love the movie, but I enjoyed it. I did not enjoy the musical, and it had the potential to be so much more than it is.

Well they tried to be more daring with the Little Mermaid and Mary Poppins and those two turned out to be two money pits. Aladdin and Beauty though are real money machines.

Frozen has come to be a huge money maker and you can see it dominating even in the parks.

Is Frozen doing well with the female tween audience which is the best audience you can have today? It doesn't matter how awful one individual thinks it is. You might not see any spark but it doesn't mean it isn't there for the multitudes. I was watching a Disney vlog on youtube and the host said his niece(who's seen a lot of shows which probably means since 2015) adored it.

How wonderful it would be if George Kaufman or Brooks Atkinson in the 50s could visit Broadway today in some sort of time machine and review all of the current Broadway shows.

I looked at the broadway grosses just now, and am surprised that Frozen is doing as well as it is. I didn't think it would be very successful. It is, though, and that saddens me. Why would any company or investors want to take a chance on something daring and different, when the pedestrian is what people want to see? Broadway might not be dead financially, but it sure looks like it's dead creatively.

What was the last truly creative and inventive show that opened? I'm reluctant to say Book of Mormon, because, although it was certainly a wild card and no one could have predicted how huge it would become, despite its foul language and odd topic and its potential to offend, it was really written as tightly as an old fashioned musical. Maybe Spring Awakening? Oh, and Hamilton. Duh. Despite it's mediocrity, I do have to acknowledge that it broke new ground.

[QUOTE]The one huge hit they have is Lion King, which was creative and imaginative, yet every other one of their movies to plays have been pedestrian and obvious and too literal.

I'm guessing Thomas Schumacher didn't have much to do with The Lion King, which may well explain it all. According to Wikipedia, he became co-president of Disney Theatrical in 1999.

No one really likes this production of Frozen.

Grandage decided to go dark and drab with the story -- and rather than mine the darker elements of the story for more menace and drama he just made the whole thing happen at night. Weird because Norwegian nights are like a few minutes long in summer.

Patti's energy and special skills were used to make the part of Anna hard to cast for charm (so much running and mugging and mania). And Kristen Bell's princess level beauty as the feisty red-head was utterly lost in translation. People appreciate how hard she is working -- but she really needed to make the little girls in the audience want to BE ANNA for Halloween and that sure as hell didn't happen. They got so much mileage over at Wicked by making Glinda as pretty as possible the decision to accentuate Murin's round face and pig nose with a series of increasingly unflattering wigs in Frozen was questionable. Bell's charm was considerable and didn't manage to quite carry the day in the film -- but that was the role that needed a pure boost of charisma to carry the show.

I am stunned that Hans hasn't gotten more attention. Somehow the villains appear not to be having enough fun here. So that ruins a lot of the energy.

Not coming up with a creative theatrical way to handle the magic was moronic. (Olaf should have been a puppet operated by ice-ghost versions of young Elsa and Anna. Olaf should have been created in the first scene with the children as a real 'snowman'. Then recreated by Elsa having her meltdown with the child actresses returning as little pale ice ghosts only Elsa sees. That would allow them to recreate the 'flashback' sequences and change the meaning of the moments when Elsa does interact with Olaf. Also having no one else see the ice-ghost children while they interact with 'Olaf' voiced by the Girls would have worked fine. It would have made Olaf more popular as a toy and a character for the intended audience. They did not need a Josh Gad lookalike to make that shit work.

The decision to make Let It Go the boring and illogical end to Act One also sucked. They put effort into making that sequence less than what anyone in theater has ever imagined it could have been.

Replacing Betsy Wolfe with the somber but blonde Caissie wasn't really that big a problem. No one was going to make Elsa work. But the decision to pick one of the least exciting Elphaba/Maureen Idina replacements was questionable. Elsa's appearances in the movie thrilled people -- they needed someone thrilling. After they decided to go with reassuring and reliable (but slim and blonde) Levy they should have worked overtime to bring the thrills and chills through stage-craft.

They didn't.

All of what you're saying is meaningless if they are getting an audience. Are they? Is it doing badly? Will it do blockbuster business with the summer tourists?

I saw Grease on Broadway when it first opened. There was nothing there. Not a spark. I didn't enjoy a second of it. Everything was wrong. It might as well have been Into the Light for me.

They wasted a LOT of money and time when they should have had the creatives working on Frozen 2. Turning this into such a lackluster Broadway show was a remarkable abuse of resources by Disney. The Lopeses and Lee gave the studio a HUGE hit and Disney responded by putting them to work on the Broadway project which they then undermined creatively for no good reason.

R365, the Shumacher’s children have no shoes. Does Disney have some great enmity with Julie Taymor? She was Lion King’s magic ingredient. She can’t be so expensive to make it not worth it. Frozen’s more than a billion-dollar property.

Disney no longer has any interest in creativity. It is simply corporate branding at this point. If anything happens creatively it's just an accident.

It's a case now of throwing as much shit as possible against a wall and whatever sticks is enough. Anything tied to Frozen is going to make money.

True, R371, they are getting great business, but wouldn't it have been wonderful to be doing great business AND to have created something wonderful? With all the resources at their disposal, it would have have amazing if they came up with something inspiring and transcendent, instead of merely serviceable. And R370 -- the thought of the two young girls being the puppeteer for Olaf would have been a great idea, especially since the adult girls keep saying "he's a little bit me, a little bit you," yet Olaf has no significant presence in the first act. He is an adorable puppet, but he would have had a deeper level of meaning had he been more prominent or necessary in Act 1.

Has My Cousin Vinny ever been made into a Broadway musical?

Why are you all so shocked that FROZEN is a big hit when SUMMER is just as big and even worse?

Newsies also benefited from Schumacher's relative lack of involvement in its development.

Was there any gossip coming out of Mary Poppins? I can only imagine what it'd be like if Schumacher and Mackintosh butted heads. Then again, they have quite similar views on theatre I suppose. Mackintosh himself has said he doesn't care much about the art, just the show.

[quote] She [Julie Taymor] can’t be so expensive to make it not worth it.

Why don't you ask the Spiderman producers about that?

I'm not sure I would blame Taymor for all the injuries at Spiderman. She is not a technician or flight director. She had the vision, but the people working for her should have translated her ideas to safe actions. Yes, she came up with the ideas in the first place, but blame should be leveled at those who did not manifest her visions safely. I don't know why people continue to blame Taymor. Blame the flight technicians and set builders, whose work is what really caused the injuries. Some of the effects in the show were incredible. If she brought some of her imagination to something like Frozen, it would be much more magical than it is now. I'm sure she has no desire to do another Disney show, but I would love it if she did. I think she's brilliant. Spiderman had some great moments, but I think it was marred mostly by U2s horrible score, and their unwillingness to work on it. It was so bad, I wonder if they had ever even seen a musical before.

For Heaven's sake, when her designers and technicians told her "This isn't safe" she'd scream at them "This is what I want! Do it or you're fired! THIS IS MY VISION!"

[quote]For Heaven's sake, when her designers and technicians told her "This isn't safe" she'd scream at them "This is what I want! Do it or you're fired! THIS IS MY VISION!"

Citation, r382? Directors don't get to hire or fire technicians.

Happy belated birthday, R383. A little birdie told us you were born yesterday.

LOL, r484, it was last night, and on a turnip truck. I did briefly consider that r382 was a oke, but I get so tired of the Taymor bashing that my knee jerked

Or..

LOL, r3484, it was last night, and on a turnip truck. I did briefly consider that r382 was a joke, but I get so tired of the Taymor bashing that my knee jerked.

Well, you're getting warmer, R386.

R382 That makes absolutely no sense. If a responsible technician tells a director that what they're are doing is unsafe for an actor on such a technically complicated show that director can go batshit crazy and force the actor and the technician to do it? I'm finding this impossible to believe. Seriously.

R388....and yet, technicians seemingly were forced to do it, and actors were seemingly injured, and where does the buck stop?

It’s not black or white. Read Song Of Spider-Man. She herself wasn't pointing guns at anyone, but she certainly liked it when other people pushed.

Who else is in that Rotten Cocksuckers' quartet besides Samonsky and Burstein?

Oh, Christ, it's all crap! Who cares? Wake me up when adult content takes over Broadway again.

R392, I’m afraid you’re gonna no to have to accept the fate of Rip Van Winkel, except in this story, he dies in his sleep. Sad.

Moulin Rouge will win the 2019 Tony for Best Musical.

So, since the 'real new thread #306 filled up do we have to fill up and end this thread before #307 starts up?

How about someone start a thread 307, and we can all move over to that one? We can all be one big happy family.

Just use this thread. Some of you are insanely weird about the numbers in the title when there are still 200 more posts that can be made in this one that will stay active because people have it bookmarked.

R397 But....but... people may fill it up with random fluff like Vannnjieee just to finish the interloper thread off? (YES I am one of those people)

I really enjoy Shoshana Bean.

She is the best bean.

Are you suggesting we grind her up and pour boiling water over her?

Oh fuck 200 more more posts to finish the bastard child fake Theater Gossip Thread, shesh

This Alladin guy is adorable. But I would prefer to see more of the 'body by Sven' workout sequence in real time.

I was rereading Moby Dick the other day....

So like Spogebob he lives under the sea?

He could have had a sundae -- only 19 cents - three scoops, chocolate, strawberry ..... vanilla.

Apparently Patti LuPone saw Spongebob Squarepants and said that she liked it.

So yeah.

R406 Venjie

The opening number of Spongebob is adorable. Bikini Bottom Day. It is impossible to not be happy after listening to it.n

Reminds me of a time I was in Panama. There was this dude. Julio? Juan? Ah, what's the different, the dude was hung like a brick sh-

Maruta, Markeeta...

(This little monologue was in my head when I decided to visit Panama! Really nice country, too.)

R408

I have tried regularly to drum up enthusiasm for it. I sort of have started to like Hero is my Middle Name.

The thing is, I actually really liked Spongebob Squarepants when I first encountered it decades ago. The whole happy hippy vibe was so pleasantly loopy after all the snide attitude that prevailed in cartoons...

I will keep trying.

Chocolate covered peanuts -- unshelled.

[quote]Who else is in that Rotten Cocksuckers' quartet besides Samonsky and Burstein?

Eric Anderson and Christian Delcroix, who played Stewpot and the Professor, respectively, r391. They did a "Five till Curtain" podcast roughly every week. In the podcast, they were "E" and "Croix". The "slap" at the end after Croix says "Now I'm horny" happened in nearly every episode

Here's another with Saminsky.

....that fact this thread is talking about 'Spongebob' with no chundering shows how lost this thread is, Bring on #307

Some one on the other thread asked about Marin Mazzie's health. She is performing with her husband, Jason Danielly, at 54 Below June 11-16.

That is good news about Marin Mazzie.

Jason is only a moderately good actor but he can handle a scene, has a gorgeous voice and has been a devoted husband to his adoring wife Marin for years now. I've adored her for years and wish them both so much good will and good luck.

R147 Nice

Can someone just start the #307 thread now?

And maybe we can finish this one as an off-Broadway thread.

What was the awful joke at the end of Skintight? Is it a genuine show destroyer?

please lets finish this first, I can only keep track of one at a time

Considering how fast these threads fill, we'll have #307 by midnight Tuesday, anyway.

The Tony Awards are next week. We already know Margaritaville is closing in a month. Is there any chance sense will win out over pride and Frozen's gone by Labor Day?

Drama Desk Awards tonight.

Gwen doing Very-Fosse Fosse

This is a long dance number. How long did they have to put this together? One number, to be performed only once?

Has Spongebob ever met The Little Mermaid?

They once went on a double date with Diver Dan and Minerva, r424.

Easy way to fill this thread. Play a game -- One person say a musical. Next person says a musical that starts with the last letter of the one before.

I'll start.

Redhead

Destry Rides Again.

"N"

Oh shut up, R426

New Girl in Town.

R427 Probably started this God-forsaken double thread.

R423. I had the same first reaction -- all that work, for it to be performed ONCE?!? -- and then I noticed that the men all pretty much were in formation and did the same move, so he didn't need to create individual choreography for each one. Also, back then, someone like Verdon would play in Las Vegas or other clubs around the country, so she probably performed this many times. Some of the choreography is interesting, but the song and whole performance is just so cheesy. It's hard to believe that was typical of a performer's repertoire.

I never heard that Verdon appeared in Las Vegas. DId she? That sounds like it would have been a helluva show. I know that Chita Rivera played Roxie in "Chicago" (and not in the tab/truncated version that casinos usually did) some years after the original.

"Nine".

[quote]Drama Desk Awards tonight.

Does anyone know of anywhere to watch the awards online?

EVITA

Anything Goes

Sunset Boulevard

Donnybrook!

Kiss Me, Kate

Eubie!

Evergreen

R423 and R430, I recognize some of those dancers: Andy Bew, Chris Chadman, Paul Charles, and Paul Solen.

No, No, Nanette

Elf

Fanny

Young Frankenstein

Next to Normal

Les Miserables

Sarava

Ari

Into the Woods

(The) Sound of Music

Doesn't count, r451.

Shenendoah

Home Sweet Homer

Redhead

Or did we already do her?

We did!

Romance, Romance

Evita

i'm running out of Es

A Tree Grows in Brooklyn

Newsies

Also running out of Ns

St. Louis Woman

Do they all end in N??

No Strings

She Loves Me

Evergreen

(The) New Moon

But there's that damn N again!

Nunsense

Eating Raoul

LoveMusik

Kismet

To those playing the game, why not respect the board and post in it, instead of filling it with that game? If you don't want to read this board, wait until it's full; why sully the thread for those of us who have been using it? Don't hijack it, please.

Tommy

R468

I was one of the people using this thread too -- but the fact that we've gone back to finish off the double posted 305 before skipping to 307 is really just pushing things.

If we let this thing drag on some fool is going to start a second 306 and pretty soon the Bedknobs and Broomsticks person will come back.

The game is harmless enough as when someone finishes off a thread by naming flop shows, usually "Bajour".

R470. If the is the general consensus, then...carry on. I will just ignore this thread until 307 comes along! Why doesn't someone play solitaire, follow his own post, and just fill up the board?

Your Own Thing

[quote]The game is harmless enough as when someone finishes off a thread by naming flop shows, usually "Bajour".

Uh, that someone would be the Poppins Loon trying to rush people. It’s a dick move by our resident incel.

If you’re playing the game, you should at least post a discussion point in the same post. Double duty

Grand Hotel = game

Post: I saw a book at a street fair yesterday about Paper Mill Playhouse. There was a picture of Thelma Ritter in "Barefoot in the Park". She must have been great. Did anyone see her.

Have at it.

Little Women

Nick & Nora

A Little Night Music

Can-Can

how about Cabaret instead?

You can't think of a show with an "N"?

Nymph Errant

Taboo. And that's probably the first time anyone's thought of that train wreck in ages.

Once on This Island.

Damn Yankees

Sweeney Todd.

Doonesbury

You Never Know

Wicked

This, Something Better Than This, AND Brass Band???

That was awesome R489

Of all things, Gwen would cut "Where Am I Going?" when she was exhausted. I would think she'd want the few minutes to slow down, but maybe it's a dancer-athlete thing. Barrel through to the finish.

I always thought it was interesting that she would cut material. Did they have a separate Playbill? Weren't people disappointed that they weren't getting the "entire" show?

She gave partial refunds. This was an era where songs could be dropped after opening, like "Butterfly" from Dolly!

Verdon and Fosse always did those cheerleader/drum majorette type routines on Sullivan.

It's said that before they got to Broadway Verdon tried to drop SEVEN songs from a performance of "Redhead".

Brass Band...

It would be interesting to hear from people who saw/were part of the OBC of Sweet Charity (like Ruth Buzzi!). How often did Helen Gallagher go on for Gwen? Was there some disappointment that she lost the Tony to Angela Lansbury?

[quote]why not respect the board

Hahahahahahahaha

You vacuous queens sure know how to make me laugh on a boring Sunday afternoon.

R496, when Shirley MacLaine was in Pajama Game, she was going to quit and go over to Can-Can because Carol Haney was known to never miss a performance and Verdon was often out. I think the loss to Lansbury was her first Tony nominated loss. Gallagher allegedly went on a great deal for Verdon and it caused the BO to drop. When Verdon left, Gallagher replaced her and the show quickly closed.

Hey R482, I loved Taboo and just made that clear yesterday in the "Flop Musicals You Lov d" thread!

Where Am I Going? was not performed as a stationary ballad. Gwen danced through some of it with rather grand balletic moves, IIRC.

Julie Taymor NEEDS to do "Pete's Dragon". The score is terrific and Taymor would make a great Eliott.

I never knew that, r500. She'd definitely know by that point if she had another dance number left in her. Here's Charity's IBDB page.

Dear World

You asked for it, r503.

Ditto! I had no idea, R500.

1966-67 sounds like a cool time for musical ladies. Gwen, then Helen in Sweet Charity. Angela in Mame. Barbara Harris, then Phyllis Newman in The Apple Tree. Mimi Hines finishing Funny Girl. Ginger Rogers, Betty Grable and Pearl Bailey in Hello, Dolly! Mary Martin, then Carol Lawrence in I Do! I Do! Leslie Uggams in Hallelujah, Baby! Jill Haworth, Penny Fuller and eventually Anita Gillette in Cabaret. Hell, Mary Tyler Moore in Breakfast at Tiffany's.

Dear World may have been a flop, but this footage does look intriguing.

Debbie Does Dallas: the Musical

R505 Also Hyacinth Bucket herself, Patricia Routledge in "Darling of the Day"!

Lost in the Stars

Wait - that was off Broadway.

Dogfight - ugh - also off Broadway

DuBarry Was a Lady

You're a Good Man, Charlie Brown

omg -- they had a cat on stage? How does that even work

Sutton is guest-starring on Alan Cumming's "Instinct" tonight.

As Celia Baxter, a successful author nearly murdered in her home.

Cutie Telly Leung also just popped up.

It's always nice to see theater folk getting TV work on the side.

Wonder why they're not showing the Drama Desks online this year like they did last year? Perhaps someone decided that it wasn't worth the effort.

Too bad because I would have liked to see Michael host again this year.

You forgot Dolores Gray in Sherry!

Is Dolorous Grise up for a Drama Desk? and is she DDF?

I am watching the Drama Desk awards streaming through TheaterMania.com

R517, do you have a link? I went to TM's website earlier and didn't see any link to the Drama Desks.

Never mind, I just found it. Thanks.

Is Charles G LaPointe high?

Reprise 2.0 (the LA Encores) is doing "Sweet Charity" with Laura Bell Bundy. (And Jon Jon Briones and Barrett Foa.)

Why are they all pronouncing "cursed" as if it is too syllables? this isn't the 1930s in colonial India. It's pronounced KERSED, people.

KURST would be clearer a pronunciation.

Um, it rhymes with VERSED, so KERSED will do just fine, thank you.

Last midnight!

Poor Karen, who never met a note she could sing on key

Which Karen?

Karen Valentine, Rose.

Boy, you know it's a slow year for Jesse Mueller to win Lead Actress for basically doing nothing in "Carousel."

"Spongebob Squarepants" wins Best Musical! Sponge-worthy!

Are most of these winners tonight favored to win next Sunday? Spongebob? Jesse? Lindsey Mendez? Andrew?

If any show is going to beat Band's Visit, I think it would be SpongeBob.

I'm a little surprised by all the love the Drama Desk gave Spongebob. Best musical, actor AND supporting actor? I enjoyed it, but it is not the best of anything.

R533, probably more a reflection of what a lackluster season it was more than anything else.

I had no idea that Imogene Heap wrote music for Harry Potter. I just saw she won a the Drama Desk for it. I have no desire to see HarryPotter. I have only read the first book, and have not a clue who any of the characters are. Is the music good? Intrusive? She can be strange, but also very wonderful. She co-wrote and produced this song with Taylor Swift. It is one of my favorite Swift songs, and it has Heaps fingerprints all over it. I give Swift credit for seeking out Heap, instead of just writing with all those Swedish fellows.

And here's another one from Drama Desk winner Imogene Heap. She's a talent who is somewhat obscure, so forgive me for posting on here, even though it might be appropriate, given tonight's win.

Another gorgeous Imogen Heap song. Can we get her to create an entire score for a stage musical?

I'm very excited by Sara Bareilles, Cyndi Lauper, and Imogen writing for the stage. This is exactly the type of new blood music theatre needs.

Adorable Matt Alber did a cover of the previous, for those of you weirded out by Imogen.

Saw part 2 of AIA today. Who knew George Wolfe did such a shitty job with that material 25 years ago and got away with it?

Here's one of Matt's originals.

Imagine this in a theatrical setting.

It's stunning.

Jesse mueller and lindsay mendez do absolutely nothing in Carousel to garner those awards. Fucked up. In other news, i just got back from seeing LOVE NEVER DIES: The Phantom Returns. Rachel Anne Moore played Christine. Her vocals were out of this world. Superb. I like that show. Much better than most of the crap playing on Broadway. A big group of bitchy eldergays left at intermission.

I'm the guy who posted the Swift and Frou Frou Heap songs. I'm glad to see there are other Heap fans on here. I was unaware of Matt Alber, so thank you for posting those songs. The second one was particularly gorgeous. He reminds me a little of Rufus Wainwright, the way he places his voice, but not as affected. And, yes, I can imagine how beatiful a score he can write. THere's an inherent theatricality to at least that song you posted. It's beautiful. Thank you for turning me on to him.

[quote]Who knew George Wolfe did such a shitty job with that material 25 years ago and got away with it?

I knew. But everyone was so taken it by it, I was a voice crying in the wilderness. I remember on the Tony Awards, Ian McKellen just raving about it. I saw the original Broadway cast in both shows and I felt that the show needed some cutting, especially in the second part.

Just to add, McKellen was raving about the British production. It had been mounted in Britain before the US did it.

"You've Got... Possibilities"

ENCORES, 2014.

R545 Who does that little cunt think she is?

Betty Buckley, "Serenity" from TRIUMPH OF LOVE, 1997.

The Drama Desks are so horrid, what a scary crowd they are, Murin crazy.

Anyone had Tony-winner Michael Aronov?

On the basis of that photo, I would think not -- it is SCARY SHIT! (He looks like an insane perv with incipient moobs)

DL fave Klea Blackhurst had a teeny-tiny, "blink and you'll miss it" part as a waitress in tonight's "Pose."

I object to Klea “Fatty” Blackhurst being called a DL favorite!

Superman at Encores was terrific, but Ally Mauzey was awful.

R553 she’s currently Ernestina in “Hello Dolly”. I think she can be quite funny but I didn’t see Superman

She's dreadful in Dolly! and the night I saw the show came out for her first scene, stopped, went offstage and started again -- it didn't help.

R510 that’s been used already

Year with Frog and Toad ?

I've always liked the score to Superman and enjoyed the Encores revival but oh how I would have loved to have seen the original Prince production.

And it was playing at the same time as Verdon in Charity. How I envy the queens of '66 who instead of posting were gushing or dishing under the marquees of Broadway.

Seems kind of exciting to me.

Destry Rides Again

Alli Mausey should have played Patti Murin in Frozen.

(Actually I thought she would have been a good Anna and am surprised that she isn't great in Dolly.)

FOLLIES!

R556

I think it means we need to go back to D.

So R558 Destry Rides Again triggers 'n'

New Faces of '56

(Maggie Smith's debut.)

Has Xanadu been done?

A Swanson film opened the Roxy-The Loves of Sunya-which I believe is lost. She was there opening night having been given a tour of the theater earlier by Roxy himself. He probably thought the theater itself would last at least a hundred years though it only lasted for 33. How ironic that the disastrous opening of Radio City which was to be his crowning achievement killed him(he became ill soon after and never recovered) when that is the theater that has endured and become a NY landmark.

Isn't this a fabulous window card?

Meh

Not really.

I like it!

You gave me "Xanadu" and I'll raise you

Up in Central Park

And I give you "Kean."

This is really a stupid game.

Never Gonna Dance.

Eubie

We used to play this game on school bus trips, but with places. It's called "Geography:.

Elegies for Angels, Punks and Raging Queens

That slide!

Early to Bed

Death Trap

Phlahooley....

Panama Hattie

Never thought I’d arrive at this point, but this asinine game has me swearing off Datalounge forever. You theatre queens are fucking LOSERS. A week before the gay super bowl and not a mention of the Tony’s. No gossip because Broadway denizens are bland, boring cyphers and the lot of you are the same. Good riddance you bottom-feeding nellies.

[quote]Good riddance you bottom-feeding nellies.

Mary! LOL

[QUOTE]you bottom-feeding nellies

Pics please.

bottoms can be wonderful things upon which to feed, regardless of one's age

Ever Green

Eldergays, how was Lee in Wait Until Dark? I think she's gorgeous, so I'm all over that window card.

What on earth is there to talk about re: the Tonys? This is the worst season in recent memory.

12 year old gayling in NYC 1966,,,saw Verdon and couldn't believe she dropped "Where Am I Going" the night I saw the show. Never got it until many years later...

Thank you, r582. That window card does everything a window card is supposed to do.

I'm with R583. It's rather meh this season. When Head Over Heels and Pretty Women start previews, though, I expect play by play coverage of those two future trivia answers.

Billion Dollar Baby

I heard Nathan was especially sweet at the DD’s, some other cast members NOT SO MUCH...that Limey Cunt has really be a horror...

what have you heard, r588?

I think we're going to have a glut of closures this summer. School of Rock, Beautiful, Kinky Boots and A Bronx Tale all seem to reaching their expiration date with audiences.

And yet SUMMER is pulling in over a million a week for 6 weeks now!

Just wait for THE TEMPTATIONS and CHER and TINA and THE GO GOs and HOOTY AND THE BLOWFISH and.......

This season is a huge financial success for Broadway overall.

73% of the principle roles on Broadway right now are male (and of those there are a lot of gay men IN gay roles) -- even the cartoon-turned theme park musicals have Elsa, Spongebob and Patrick belting their little gay hearts out.

Of course we are underwhelmed.

Saw Neil Patrick Harris and David Burtka at Carousel yesterday- and boy, is Burtka letting himself go!

He'll be sorry.....

Well, he does have a huge dick. You can get away with a lot if you have a huge dick. But still ... fat is fat.

Everybody's waitin' for the big Bajour!

Here's 307

Everybody's lookin' for that one sure thing!

Thanks for the Mack & Mabel clip, r572!

See that fascinating creature with perfection stamped on every feature ...

It's Charlie Williams!

[quote]Never thought I’d arrive at this point, but this asinine game has me swearing off Datalounge forever. You theatre queens are fucking LOSERS. A week before the gay super bowl and not a mention of the Tony’s. No gossip because Broadway denizens are bland, boring cyphers and the lot of you are the same. Good riddance you bottom-feeding nellies.

Never in the history of the Internet has anyone who has ever posted this sort of diatribe ever followed through on it. They always come back.