Lowenstein, Lowenstein

THE DIRECTOR: "I want you to turn the gorgeous leading lady towards the mirror, so that you -- and the audience -- finally, realize how beautiful she is. See, the thing is, even she doesn't realize how gorgeous she is!"

R1 Hahahahaha!! Yes, Babs strikes again. OP, have you read the book? If not, you really owe it to yourself to do so. Pat Conroy was a tortured treasure.

The book is sheer poetry, OP. It's probably my favorite piece of fiction. The movie is entertaining and Streisand is quite lovely but the book is sublime.

"My soul grazes like a lamb on the beauty of the indrawn tides."

I loved the book much more than the movie, which had too much Streisand.

And Charleston, SC really is beautiful.

"...the movie, which had too much Streisand."

Bubelah, there ain't no such thing!!!!

Fun Fact: Barbra and Elliott Gould's real life son played her son in the movie. He was also the drunk guy at the graduation party in Say Anything who John Cusack and Ione Skye had to drive home.

[quote]The book is sheer poetry, OP. It's probably my favorite piece of fiction.

I wonder whether you would like David Payne, particularly "Early from the Dance" and "Ruin Creek."

Therapists don't fuck their patients, even if Dr. Barbara's character had some marital problems going on.

Romanticizing psychologist/patient sex is odd to say the least. And he leaves her horny ass behind at the movie's end.

Agreed R8, but how could he resist the sexiest (without knowing it) woman alive??

According to Nick Nolte's recent autobiography, REBEL, Barbra did develop the hots for him during filming, but they discussed it and decided it would not be good for their performances to get involved. However, once filming was over and during the lengthy months that Babs spent editing the film, he states she called him from Malibu and asked him to move out there and live with her. He turned her down.

I remember reading an interview when this movie came out and Barbra was talking about Nick getting boners during their sex scenes. She said it in a laughing way, but wanted to make it known how sexy and irresistible she was to her co-star. Eye roll.

The book was Conroy's last decent novel. BEACH MUSIC was horrendously overwrought and overwritten...

R2, I haven’t read the book! I had read Conroy’s memoir about the books in his life - his Southern mother’s was GONE WITH THE WIND, natch.

But this movie surprised me in that the whole effect was weirdly charming given that Barbra thought she was making a 1940s Womens Picture when the source material clearly isn’t.

R13 I think that's why a lot of critics hated it.

I believe I read the book? I have read The Great Santini but it has been so many years I can't remember. Nick Nolti was completely sexy and Barbra looked great.

I walked out the first time I went to see it...I swear it felt like I was in therapy. Then later on I went to see it and loved it. You know why the male reviewers hated it. They were having a hard time identifying with Nolti's character. Also they were angry that he was so physically attractive and THEY were not.

I remember when the movie started, and the music swelled, thinking, "This is really beautiful."

That was my first sign that the film was not going to serve the book well.

R16 That is rubbish. Almost all actors are prettier than critics.

I loved the book. And did enjoy the movie. But the constant smoking of Tom bothered me. I wonder he that was NN's idea? And, honestly, I thought Lowenstein would have been more believable played by a different actress. She was not what I envisioned after reading the book. I do think she was good in it but it was almost a different character than the book. I wonder what Pat Conroy thought? She bought the rights to it, right?

The ending was well done. I just sat in my chair for a good while before leaving the theatre.

Sexiest Man Alive!

Oh fuck you R19 ! The man is ancient now but you can never take THIS away from him...

Beautiful film. Nolte should have won the Oscar. His performance was nuanced, sympathetic, and deeply moving.

As for the poster above who said this film glorifies doctor/patient sex, no it doesn't. Note is not Barbra's patient in the film, Nolte's sister is his patient. Nolte is simply helping Barbra's character figure out why the sister keeps trying to kill herself. In the process, Nolte confesses to past events that he's never told anyone.

[quote]Nolte's sister is his patient. Nolte is simply helping Barbra's character figure out why the sister keeps trying to kill herself.

That's not true. They have a de facto doctor/patient relationship. He is undergoing therapy sessions with her, resulting in his breakthrough.

The fact that he is so vulnerable makes her fucking him even more problematic than her constant tight shots on her nails.

I truly don’t understand her manicure fetish. Is that something of a joke in Streisand lore?

The legs, the hair, sure, ok. But the nails?

That is an interesting question R23. I first noticed her nails in Funny Girl. They ARE beautiful, but it's true they are the star of every one of her films.

Babs and Loretta Young both had this fetish in common; making sure that their well manicured hands were in almost every shot.

Looking at Barbra's huge schnoz brought flashbacks of being ass-raped by a sweaty escaped convict.

Melodrama! Weepie: Women's Pictures FTW!

Barbra the director got great performances out of every actor except Barbra the actress.

Nolte is so great in this.

His People SMA cover shows how desperate the general public are for sensitive, intelligent, rugged, man’s man movie stars.

They barely exist, when when they do, they can rarely act.

“So remove your pants, Nick. That’s right, it’s for the lighting. Now grab my ass and rock, rock then grind into me. In little circles. And again. And again. Wait until I toss my hair BACK before you lick my nipples. No, don’t let go of my ass.”

Best book I ever read. Pat Conroy's writing blew me away. Outstanding movie. Barbra did a magnificent job condensing that epic story into a two-hour move. Barbra and Nick Nolte were spectacular.

The book is wonderful. Just the most beautiful prose.

And Nolte was perfect in this role. Yes, he should have won the Oscar for this one.

The film does suffer because of Barbra's infatuation with herself, but it's still pretty damn good. But if you loved the movie, the book is a must-read.

And yes, Charleston and its coasts are that beautiful.

Babs really wanted Redford for the role.

Not having read the book, I really wanted to know more about the dead brother.

In the movie it seems like his affair with Barbra was part of the healing process. He admittedly he was raped. By a man, and sex with his therapist proved his masculinity remained. Returning to his wife and old career proved his humanity remained.

It’s a good book, but I can see why straight macho guys would be leery of it.

I mean it’s a good movie!

Redford couldn't be as emotional as Nick was in the role. I heard that Don Johnson wanted the role too and thought since he was dating Barbra it might happen. But no. A woman scorned?

It seems to me Barbra is an odd choice to direct this film but is it true that Jon Peters helped her be chosen?

I read that Don Johnson introduced Barbra to the book.

Then I read Redford introduced Barbra to the book then ceded the rights to her when she became to passionate about the project.

I believe Redford turned Babs down because he knew he didn’t have any emotional range.

Beach Music is a steaming pile of shit.

Worst book I’ve ever read.

Barbra and Pat Conroy do The Shag

The thing about Lowenstein was that she looked WASP, but was.proudly Jewish, so some had issues with Babs in the role.

I thought the WASP thing was a minor aside, and thought BS was great in the role.

I think Kevin Costner was Streisand's first choice for Tom.

I love that this is Tony Soprano's favorite movie (for obvious reasons; and some less so).

I wonder if Babs had to personally approve them showing scenes and repeatedly referencing it on the series?

I did not know that this movie was referenced in the Sopranos. Interesting.

This would be considered a truly great film if Barbra had cut the cabin scenes between her and Nolte. Those scenes are the only thing that slows the movie down. The truly interesting relationship is the one between Tom and his wife, not between Tom and Lowenstein.

Kate Nelligan gives a marvelous performance. And what a gorgeous woman she was.

I don’t recall it being Tony’s favorite movie.

Read Nolte's book. It's quite good and he talks plenty about his films (instead of ignoring them ala Diane Keaton, etc.)

Costner couldn't pull off that true southern character. Who basically thinks that swamps, marsh's, and 100% humidity are beautiful. Nick Nolte nailed it.

None of the other actors mentioned could have played the part better than Nolte. It would have been fun to see Barbra and Redford together again, though. It's really a shame they never made another movie as co-stars.

I agree with other posters that Prince of Tides was a beautifully written book but that Conroy's later works were pure dreck. Not only Beach Music but South of Broad. I had been so looking forward to Conroy's follow-up and never have I been so disappointed by an author's work.

Nick Nolte??I saw this when I was a child and thought it was Robert Redford...yeah. This is the movie where she's the therapist and she has a moody son who plays the violin and he trains with well....Nick Nolte. This is quite a revelation.

I wish Brendan Fraser had played the son as originally planned. He would have been better in the part, IMO. I'm sure I'll be in the minority here with this opinion.

I think Chris O'Donnell was already cast -- and then Conroy "just happened to see" a photo of Jason and made her recast. Total bullshit of course. At least Chris got a nice pay-off, I am sure.

R46, Tony was obsessed with the movie (SPOILER ALERT) and was finally propelled to make his big move on Dr. Melfi after all this time because of it. One of the major cruxes of the entire series and one of the most famous episodes (S5 premiere)... remember the gift basket with the Tide bottle?

Nick Nolte's well deserved Oscar went to Anthony Hopkins as Hannibal Lecter. If Babs hadn't taken forever to edit the film, he might have won the year before and taken the Oscar from Jeremy Irons for REVERSAL OF FORTUNE. But SILENCE OF THE LAMBS was a juggernaut that could not be stopped that year.

And neither acting Oscar was deserved, IMO. An over-rated hype fest. Nolte's performance, to me, was much deeper and more nuanced. Any good actor could have done what Hopkins and Foster did in that movie.

But, R55, Irons actually should/did win for DEAD RINGERS, but that was far too outre for the academy to award so it was a two-for-one deal and REVERSAL OF FORTUNE was the pick, not unlike Diane Keaton winning for ANNIE HALL the same year she was eligible for LOOKING FOR MR. GOODBAR (which is her best performance).

Agreed; he was wonderful in DEAD RINGERS.

I remember all of that, R54, I just don’t remember if they established PoT as his favorite movie.

Well Irons was ok, but DEAD RINGER is really Bette Davis' movie!

IIRC, Tony Soprano starts crying at the end of PUBLIC ENEMY with James Cagney.

And here it is....

Hopkins should’ve won and been in the supporting actor category clearing the way for a lead actor win for Nolte. Instead Jack Palance wins for supporting. And he’s remembered more for his one arm push ups at the Oscars than City Slickers.

I love how, after that huge emotional catharsis, he gets up, turns to Lowenstein and delivers that line, "And thass what I like about the South." Perfect.

It's a pretty great script. The whole dinner party scene is also unbelievably good.

Is that the scene where Nick holds the violin out the window?

yes! "That Mozart sho' could write some snappy tunes!"

I never saw Prince of Tides.

^ Philip Bosco.

How very dare you, r68?!

I hated that scene, where she picks up a big, heavy paperweight and throws it at his head. Talk about unprofessional.

Kate Nelligan's deleted scene.

Babs can’t act.

Blythe Danner was good in this too. She's a much better actress than her daughter.

Duh.

Blythe was great. Kate was magnificent, as was Nolte.

DELTA BURKE!

I really like Barbra Streisand, but if she were a better director, she would have cast someone other than Barbra Streisand in the lead. She was the weak link in the movie.

Watched this recently, not having seein it since it was in theatesr. It' has excellent performances, espeically Nolte and Nelligan, and a good script, but Streisand's directorial penchant for the obvious, like the crying baby passing by during the break-up scene, or the overbearing score threaten to sink it. Also, she shoots the NY street scenes as if she's never walked the city since moving to Malibu. Still, a good movie.

Is it still inappropriate for Lowenstein to fuck Tom, even if she is only treating him by proxy? He would still experience transference.

BTW, Jereon Krabbe was great in this. He was the go to Eurovillain of the day.

There's one scene I would've done differently. When Nolte decides to break it off with Streisand, we see him standing on the sidewalk outside her office, smoking and pacing around. She sees him, he stops, looks at her, and she immediately knows what's happening, her shoulders slump, and he walks across the street to tell her he is breaking up with her. I would've just left out the walking across the scene and the dialogue. It was totally unnecessary. Everybody already can tell by the body language what's happening.

You’re probably right r71, yet Barbra wanted a full You Girl Is Lovely Hubbell moment.

A more low key scene would have made their romance at the cabin less corny and more poignant.

The funny part of that last scene is how she tosses all her papers in the street. Um, won't she be needing those?!

Lovely film. Deserves to be well-remembered.

Who beat out Nelligan for the Oscar that year?

[quote]Who beat out Nelligan for the Oscar that year?

Mercedes Ruehl won a very well deserved Oscar for The Fisher King.

R86, and was never heard from again.

[quote]and was never heard from again.

That's debatable, but who cares? She gave a fucking phenomenal performance in Fisher King and deserved to win that year.

R79 It bugs me how she makes kind of a big deal about the hot dog from the New York street vendor and then takes one bite and throws it away.

The entire segment at the cabin perfectly demonstrates how inept Streisand is as a director.

Or, it might actually demonstrate how effective she is as a director -- of Lifetime made-for-television romance movies.

I thought Streisand was great. Some of you never stop bitching.

[quote]I thought Streisand was great.

I agree, she was great!

In the 1960s.

[quote]The entire segment at the cabin perfectly demonstrates how inept Streisand is as a director.

I remember one review: "A montage worthy of a Ralph Lauren ad."

Why she wasn't nominated. What's Bruce Beresford's excuse? Or Ben Affleck's?

Yes, it's the cabin scenes that should have been cut. Had she done that, the film would be considered a great one. That one gauzy scene of them walking in a field especially looked like a coffee commercial. So tacky. Otherwise, terrific movie though.

She should have been nominated. Had a man directed the movie, he would have been nominated.

If she had shown her tits, she'd have been nominated.

My abiding memory of The Fisher King, which I saw aged 9, is being appalled by Mercedes Ruehl’s fake tits.

It's such a shame that Barbra wasted her talents on movies like Mirror, Main Event, Nuts, and For Pete's Sake, all the while turning down movies like Julia, They Shoot Horses Don't They, Klute, Cabaret, Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore, and undoubtedly many others.

#metoo

R96 most likely. Despite winning two Oscars Streisand is not popular with the Academy. Sure she’s made quite a few enemies in the industry.

Strangely enough, she was criticized for her behavior but it was about things like NOT going to parties. Streisand is a loner and not particularly social. But her non-attendance at industry shindigs was considered a slap in the face because she is and has always been a huge star.

I honestly miss movies like this. Lavish contemporary literary adaptations for adults with charismatic movie stars at or near the tops of their games.

The contemporary adaptations are gloomy and depressing and are filmed with “natural lighting” or on a shoestring.

Brooklyn of a few years ago came close. So did CMBYN, inspite of the lack of “name” stars in the adult roles. But neither had a significant budget and both were “period pieces”. Lion was pretty good, even with the stench of Weinstein schmalz hanging over it.

Hell, I’d make do with a few Sydney Pollack/Clint Eastwood 1990s-style thrillers, but even Ben Affleck doesn’t make them then often. And Jennifer Lawrence’s spy movie veered away from its pulpy side and took itself waaaay too seriously.

Great movie. It is different from the novel because Streisand needed to be a star of it and that’s why Lowenstein was put more to the center. Cabin scenes are there just because Barbra didn’t want to be a supporting actress in her own movie. Nolte and Nelligan gave excellent performances.

The movie is good, but the book is just gorgeous. I wish Babs would have kept the part about the tiger. I also think the movie has one of the most beautiful scores ever written for film.

I still can’t believe that Savannah was played by the same actor who played mom in A Christmas Story. Ever since I figured that out, I wait for Savannah to say, “Now, Tom, show me how the piggies eat!”

That's why I love Todd Haynes movies, r103, like Far From Heaven and the last one with Cate Blanchett. So beautiful.

I was once an intern at a radio station where Shirley MacLaine had come to promote something. While she was waiting to go on she was very chatty and we talked a bit. It was the day the Oscar nominations had come out and I had a newspaper and we were talking about them.

I asked her why she thought Streisand was left out and she said that Streisand alienated a lot of people with the way she acted when she first started doing movies.

He's foreskined, I don't think Babs does foreskin.

She did Ryan O'Neal. She can do foreskin.

Ryan is intact? I did not know that.

Don't know, but he was very cheesy.

Don Johnson is famously uncut, isn't he?

R112 Well he was uncut, until Melanie nibbled it all off.

Where is Kate Nelligan? She doesn't seem to have worked since 2010. Has she done theater someplace?

This shot was shameless and why a lot of the critics and general public hated her.

I think she photographed herself the same way she would have any actress. If it had been Demi Moore playing the psychiatrist it would have been the same lovingly choreographed shot.

The book is better obviously but I do like the film. I agree with r105 the score is fantastic. I love the soundtrack. Barbra recorded two songs for the soundtrack which were not included in the film - Places That Belong to You and a cover of For All We Know. I think they are two of her best recordings but she chose not to put them in the film to not bring more attention to her.

Nick Nolte and Kate Nelligan are both excellent in the movie, and I think Jason Gould did a good job. Nolte deserved to win that year. He brought a lot of sensitivity and suppressed pain to his performance. Very moving.

Barbra is funny in The Directors show when she talks about this film. When she signed on she thought making the film would be easy because it was a famous book, but then the studio executives said, Yes, but can you make a movie as good as the book?!

Yes, I add Nolte to the list, with Heath Ledger, of actors who were robbed of an Oscar.

Anthony Hopkins should have been in supporting. That would have let both of them win. (and kept out Jack Palance)

Hopkins is only in the movie for a few minutes and only worked like a week on it.

R117 excellent songs

George Michael and Soul II Soul were playing at George Carlin’s party!

My name is Zweig.

Apparently there is a running Yentl gag in Deadpool 2.

[quote] You know why the male reviewers hated it. They were having a hard time identifying with Nolti's character. Also they were angry that he was so physically attractive and THEY were not.

Oh yes. That MUST by why.

[quote]I truly don’t understand her manicure fetish. Is that something of a joke in Streisand lore?

YES. Their most hilarious appearance is the multiple close-ups of them tending plants whie she sigs "Hurry! It's Lovely Up Here" during the credit sequence of "On a Clear Day." Like those nails ever gardened!

The close-ups of her nails (with her body parts) were a big joke when PoT was released.

From Billy's Crystal's salute to the nominees for Best Film that year (he hosted the Oscarcast), sung to "Don't Rain on My Parade" (see link starting at @7:13):

Don't tell me not to make this film, I've got to.

If someone makes a flop, it's me and not you!

I've simply got to make the film The Prince of Tides!

I'll bring this book to the screen

Guess who will play Lowenstein!

I'll tell Nick Nolte, 'Stand There!'

Tight on my legs, nails ,and hair!

Seven nominations on the shelf--

Did this film direct itself?

Hey Mr. Oscar... here I am ...

I was offered the role of Lila Wengo, but I could only feasibly play the younger version. My fans wouldn’t stand for me playing an elderly woman. Once again Narbra Streisand thwarted my dreams due to her jealousy because she knew my performance would overpower her own and sway her scenes to my favor. She’s a sad bitter thing.

R126 I love how the impoverished college student is slinging around a Burberry raincoat.

Streisand also made fun of the nails thing with the Sondheim rewrite of "I'm Still Here"

[quote] I love how the impoverished college student is slinging around a Burberry raincoat.

Plus is wearing a custom-fit designer outfit by Arnold Scaasi.

those Scaasi outfits ruin OACD

It's an imitation Scaasi.

Oh my nails!

The whole thing just reeks of FDS

r135

Family Drug Support?

Wingo, wait!

Wingo, can you hear me?

Streisand cast herself as Lowenstein to get financing for the movie. With a lesser known actress, no $$$.

R35 is right about Redford. It's not so much that he doesn't have the range as much as he won't allow himself to let go. He too uptight, too reserved. Plus, the mouse and bleach in Redford's hair gets worse and worse looking as he gets older, like a 50 year old 1940s movie star trying to look 30.

Fun fact, R6? Christ, everyone knows the son was played by Jason Gould. How fucking dumb do you think we are?

BTW, Streisand was seeing the movie's composer, James Newton Howard, when it was filmed. I don't see her going cuckoo over heavy drinking/drugging Nolte.

Feminine Deodorant Spray

[quote]Plus is wearing a custom-fit designer outfit by Arnold Scaasi.

I thought that dress with the intricate embroidery was a bit much. But then she took off the coat to reveal the lining matched! Girl, please!

(To say nothing of her sheets matching her nightgown!)

That Korean wig needs to be in the Smithsonian.

On A Clear Day would have been much better if Daisy's look hadn't been so highly stylized. If they'd just let Barbra look natural, like she did in What's Up Doc and Up the Sandbox, it would have been a much better film.

What a shame this scene was cut.

LOL

R144, that WAS natural for 1969.

Werk

Barbra's "look" suited the early-to-mid-60s, but seemed woefully dated by the time the film came out. People her age were wearing jeans.

That was also the case with Barbra, who tried desperately to start looking/sounding "hip" after this.

"People her age were wearing jeans."

Teenagers were, not adults. She played an adult.

Natural blonde

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Wow!! I had no idea Nick had that level of hotness.

R115- that scene is when Tom becomes attracted to his sister's psychiatrist- or rather to film her from his point of view.

[quote] Nick Nolte was so hot. I’m sure he drove Barbra wild with desire.

Her? What about HIM???

Men go wild for long well-manicured nails!!!

r145, what on Earth was the logic behind the scene where she wore that??? Was Daisy Gamble revealed in one scene as a space alien?

R151 That pic of him in the hair color ad is EXHIBIT A of "my type."

This movie would’ve been better received had they used the original working title of “Raw Meat”

Eh, r158?

Both the Silence Of The Lambs acting awards were a mistake.

TCM had been airing this a few times the last few months. It was nice to see it again.

The only thing I didn't like about it is that what has aged it a bit is that everyone YELLS their lines. I am more accustomed that in a '70s film, not an early '90s one.

who should have won r160?

George Carlin was terrible in this. PoT was not established as Tony Soprano’s favorite movie.

Yeah Carlin's performance is a bit offensive. Stereotypical gay best friend.

[quote]The Most Hilarious Sex Scene Starring Barbra Streisand I went with my parents to see The Prince of Tides—Barbra Streisand and Nick Nolte go away for a weekend, and it’s just this long, gauzy montage of them having sex in the woods and in this cabin in the country. I remember it like this: She’s cheating on her husband, and the idea is that they went to this cabin to have sex for a weekend, and she’s wearing her shirt basically the entire time. They’re all over each other, and the romantic music is swelling. They’re supposed to be having this really intense sex, and Barbra Streisand barely takes her top off, even while Nolte’s completely naked. Well, he’s at least shirtless. You don’t see Nick Nolte’s dick in The Prince of Tides. Even then, as a teenager, I thought, Why is she wearing her shirt? I didn’t understand why this middleaged woman was having the best sex of her life wearing a long-sleeve shirt. Barbra’s Barbra, and she doesn’t have to show her nipples if she doesn’t want to. But this sex might as well have been happening at Ann Taylor. Maybe it was. — Billy Eichner

Yeah, the weekend-getaway is very Lifetime and Carlin's performance is very stereotypical. Those are my two criticisms of the film but I do like it overall.

But, she did show her nipples, r165

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

R127

Jesus. 10 nominations for BUGSY. The Academy sure were up Warren Beatty’s ass.

I hate movies about buttfuck rape. There's been too may of them. Just thinly disguised homophobia.

Then you probably shouldn’t catch the Mary Poppins remake R171. I saw a rough cut of it and there’s a ass rape scene that’s OZ-level brutal.

Lowenstein fucks in sweater AND socks.

Pink knitwear= the ultimate Frau.

Delta Burke looks fug on that cover with blond hair

Whenever the wind whistles through the leaves, I'll think, “Lowenstein, Lowenstein", Not the Prince of Tides

The Prince of Tides is pure camp. Love it.

I enjoyed the book. Streisand casting herself as Lowenstein was so ridiculous that I've never seen the movie.

There was a rant from a PR person about the whole purpose of the business being to convince Jennifer Aniston that she's pretty. Streisand movies seem devoted to the cause of proving to BS that she's beautiful. I want no part of that insanity. I gave up on her movies back in the 90s.

I remember the PR around Carlin's performance. He would have been nominated if he only had a few more scenes. I remember thinking, No.

Too much Streisand and the impeccable clothes, fingernails, hair. The flashback scenes were the best part.