Why does diversity feel forced in recent movies and video games when it didn't before (while still having diversity)?

It only feels forced to certain people; it feels completely natural to me. In fact, I barely notice it anymore until people start complaining about it. Even if it feels forced to you, try asking yourself how you personally are affected by it? More people feel included as a result while you lose absolutely nothing yourself. Shouldn't you be happy instead? Or at least have the common decency not to mention it? Not every opinion needs airing, after all.

I saw gay men like myself on Star Trek for the first time last year and I'll never be able to describe how I felt in that moment. So I cannot for the life of me understand how that could ever bother anyone else, and why someone would want to deprive me of that wonderful feeling.

Despite diversity, black colleagues associate with blacks after work and whites have whites in their circle of friends.

I'm all for diversity, except for that Asian chick in the last Star Wars movie. God, I just wanted to kick her in the cunt.

I want even more diversity that includes more gay people/characters.

Because it is forced. It is done in a false way.

Of course there is a smart way to do things, but the cyncical pigs in Hollywood don't bother. And they are removed from the real world, so they don't get it. Or genuinely care.

Hilarious perspective, OP, as the rest of us have witnessed decades and decades of Hollywood films/TV where a biblical film (ie.,the Middle East) features few Middle Eastern people to be in starring roles, yet manage to easily find them for movies/TV where they're bad guys or witnessing Emma Stone playing an Asian character or the countless other movies where it seemed so natural having a white person in a role that was clearly not meant for one.

Hollywood is controlled by people like Ari Emmanuel - racists obsessed with the WASPy look.

About ten years ago The New York Times made an agreement with leaders of gay organizations to have at least two positive features each week. Now we're in Real Estate, What we do on Sundays, other sections and of course, weddings.

So much entertainment now is remakes, reboots, sequels that the inclusion feels forced where it didn't exist in previous incarnations.

The only time it felt forced to me was in The Handmaid's Tale. Maybe forced is the wrong word, as having Moira played by a black actress is a violation of Margaret Atwood's world building in the book. In the book all African American were declared Children of Ham and shipped off to Homelands set up for them in an obvious reference to Apartheid. Removing the racist component of the Republic of Gilead in the TV series bothers me. I have nothing against the actress playing Moira, I really enjoyed her on the series, as well as on Orange is the New Black. It's just a pretty big change from the book that takes away a bit from the extremist horror of the regime in the book.

[quote]Why does diversity feel forced in recent movies and video games when it didn't before (while still having diversity)?

This loaded question paints this as a problematic thread from the start.

You've already determined that we had diversity before.

We didn't.

Gamers getting their panties in a twist because they have the "possibility" of "romancing" someone of the same sex.

Games assuming that everyone that was playing them is white.

Movies that feature entirely white casts, even if the source material featured actors/actresses of color.

Count the black extras on any episode of Friends before the NAACP called them out.

R2: What the fuck does this have to do with diversity? Oh that's right, sweet fanny all! Typical of you casual racists, 'blacks keep to their own, so fuck them Negros' God you people are so boring and predictable.

"More people feel included as a result while you lose absolutely nothing yourself"

Oh please r1, the way everyone carries on, everybody acts like there still is not enough diversity. Even though every other tv commercial features interracial marriage. However I do not see equal representation of religious people, unless of course they are bigots. The SJWs don't complain about that though.

Oh, now look at the groups of sailors this week exploring Manhattan during Fleet Week. The blacks will stay with the blacks, the whites will stay with the whites. So forced diversity is deeply unrealistic.

I’m black and gay which means that in theory I should be all for diversity and inclusion. However...

1) I don’t like diversity where it doesn’t make any sense. Multi-colored/multi-ethnic gangs. The one black friend in a group of white people who you know don’t have black friends and this is speaking as a black guy who is quite often the only black friend in the group.

2) I don’t like classic character retcons where a character has been established to be white and then the character is changed to another race or ethnicity for the sake of diversity. See the show Riverdale.

3) I hate that gays come in two modes, Queeny McQueens or butch regular guys that you don’t even know are gay.

4) I hate shows where black people can TIme Travel and it’s okay. That really annoys me.

I know that a lot of gay and black and gay black creatives are trying to get original content out there that is diverse from the beginning so you don’t have to go back and retconn classic characters that were written in a time when diversity didn’t have to be a consideration. These same people understand the world enough so that it does feel forced, but organic.

R12 is R2 is a filthy racist. Diversity is about reflecting society as it is. This has been explained to you by other in this thread. That you use the tired racists trope of blacks do this blah blah blah so therefore no diversity is needed and all-white everything is fine is disgusting. But it's to be expected from you cowardly types. BTW, the use of SJW gives you away as a right-winger. You're not fooling anyone.

I'm sure the gay racist would be apoplectic if anyone suggested that homosexuality feels "forced" in films/tv, despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of this planet is heterosexual.

Sometimes the "gay" characters are forced. Very fake and cliched an put in to have "a gay character." There is a way to do things. Hollywood usually gets it wrong.

To me, writers should write their characters and then whoever the best actor is should be chosen for the role. Unless it's a pre-70's set period piece, I see no reason why you can't have black actors playing roles that might have originally been written for white actors. But here's the thing - once you cast a black actor, don't send in a script doctor to "blacken" the role up. I think Whoopi Goldberg complained of this a few times as well. Once she was cast, they'd try to make the character sassier and talk in jive or something and, to me, that's ridiculous.

It doesn’t feel forced.

I agree with poster 13. Rewriting an original all white character as minorities feels forced. It is not original since all Hollywood did is remake a classic movie with a black face. Annie hall remake is a classic example of forced diversity in movie. It is not the only one but an example of Hollywood laziness. The remake was mediocre and makes you appreciate the original. It seems to me the problem is not necessary diversity but more about how sjw wants to erase the significance of those classic movies through remakes. It is the social justice motto of righting the wrongs of those classic movies that did not include people of color in significant roles. I am sure in the furture, gone with the wind and breakfast at tiffany will be remaked with black faces. Most beloved classics will be colordified.

Perhaps the problem is that we know who/what most of the writers are and they think they *can* write these characters as anything other than some one dimensional caricature of a POC.

The fact is that Hollywood doesn't allow diversity behind the scenes. Guess what? White people aren't the only ones with ideas or disposable income and Hollywood better start waking up to that fact and letting more writers in who aren't the usual.

A lot of times they do not get "white people" right, either. They just need good writers, period. Yes, from a range of backgrounds. But the writing has to be good. A lot of it is quite condescending - for everyone.

I'm all for diversity as long as it isn't forced, as others have said. Sometimes a non-white character is shoehorned into the story just for the sake of diversity when it makes little or no sense. A recent example is the remake of Murder On the Orient Express, which inexplicably had an African-American (Leslie Odom Jr.) in the cast. They basically had to stop the movie for several minutes of dialogue to try and explain his character. It took you right out of the film.

Caftans, Earrings

I don’t hate anyone getting a job, but the worst role in any film is the black or gay best friend. Especially when the black best friend is all sassy and the gay best friend is uber gay. Because all they do is neck rolls and say gurl and comment on how hot the guys are and then encourage the female lead to get back with the male lead.

I was watching some time traveling show and they were on a train and one of the black characters was sitting in the same car as the white characters. It takes you out of the show.

r14 The use of "the use of SJW gives you away as a right-winger" gives you away as a bloody fucking moron, not fit to comment on culture. Go spank yourself, "Troll Spanker." Use a 12" chef's knife.

Alt-right idiots always give themselves away with their idiotic language. "Virtue signaling." Get the fuck outta here with your 4chan circlejerk shit.

If you feel uncomfortable about it, you might have a problem

I constantly see the term "virtue signaling" and won't even bother to find out what it means specifically because I see it coming from alt-right types and I know it's yet another way for them to excuse themselves for being deflective, hypocritical assholes.

But Jesus always being white in films...not forced in the least.

I have no problem with diversity as long as it feels natural. I feel like sometimes characters are there just for the sake of diversity and it feels exploitative. I like it better when they are full, well rounded characters that feel like real people. You don't have to call attention to the fact that they're black, gay, trans, disabled, or whatever every other line. There is more to a person than that.

If you are constantly trying to show off how "accepting" you are then it doesn't feel accepting at all. It feels more cheap and self serving. I would be offended about being used just so they can get free press with articles on Buzzfeed and Huffington Post. You shouldn't have to try to be anything, but rather just be.

R14, once again, you are mistaken. I am not r2, nor am I "alt-right."

Having Rosanne's son marry a black woman was absolutely brilliant and perfectly in synch with reality.

Having a black man banter with Winston Churchill in the Underground on the eve of World War 2 in The Darkest Hour was beyond absurd.

It annoys me when a white character is portrayed by a black acter for diversity (ex. Hermoine in Cursed Child play, Spiderman, Wrinkle in Time lead actress) the same way it annoys me when a black character is portrayed by a white or non-black actor.

It feels forced in fashion magazines

It’s only forced when they think more diversity is adding 39382728 more blacks ,, like at the oscars.

R2 I was on a college campus here in Boston and went to the cafeteria and was actually surprised to notice there is still a "black table", seemed like a throwback

The exception - Hawaii 5-0.

There seems to be LESS Non-white characters in the reboot than in the Original 1968 version.

FEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWER 'NON-WHITE CHARACTERS'

fewer '

R37 thank you.

I just hope r36's mind is better-organized; his tweet is quite the mess.

Unclench r37.

And "seem" not "seems" in r36.

R31 why was it absurd? I'm asking because I haven't seen the film.

Wouldn't you guys like to see more gay and lesbian characters in all facets of the media? I would!

R25: Spoken like a 4th grader. Sit down, junior. The adults are talking.

R41: It's absurd to him because he's under the mistaken impression that there were no people of African descent in the UK before 1950. Should be his only problem.

[quote]Wouldn't you guys like to see more gay and lesbian characters in all facets of the media? I would!

Yes. If by "gay" you mean "gay," and by "lesbian" you mean "lesbian."

Deadpool 2 had the first gay couple in a big sueperhero franchise, it's a huge step for blockbusters who are so desperately trying to please china these days.

[quote] Wouldn't you guys like to see more gay and lesbian characters in all facets of the media?

Not if they're stereotyped. Nothing worse than having everyone think those queens from "Modern Family" are the archetype of the modern gay male.

[quote][R25]: Spoken like a 4th grader. Sit down, junior. The adults are talking.

When you act like an adult, I'll sit down.

[quote]It annoys me when a white character is portrayed by a black acter for diversity (ex. Hermoine in Cursed Child play, Spiderman, Wrinkle in Time lead actress) the same way it annoys me when a black character is portrayed by a white or non-black actor.

Sorry R32 but Rowling herself stated that the character in the book never had a race specified in the first place.

[quote]I was on a college campus here in Boston and went to the cafeteria and was actually surprised to notice there is still a "black table", seemed like a throwback

Well R35 if some of the people here are any indicator can you blame them?

And now on to R13 .... oh boy!

[quote]I’m black and gay which means that in theory I should be all for diversity and inclusion. However...

Saying that you're "black and gay" in an effort to qualify what you're about to say is problematic especially when you know what you're about to say isn't typical of anyone who is black and gay except for you.

[quote]1) I don’t like diversity where it doesn’t make any sense. Multi-colored/multi-ethnic gangs. The one black friend in a group of white people who you know don’t have black friends and this is speaking as a black guy who is quite often the only black friend in the group.

So you're the only black friend in the group but you don't like to see it on tv or in movies because it has happened to you but ...

[quote]2) I don’t like classic character retcons where a character has been established to be white and then the character is changed to another race or ethnicity for the sake of diversity. See the show Riverdale.

They weren't putting Asian people in comic books in 1941 dude. Do you not understand why these things happen? Charles Schultz had to fight to even keep Franklin in the Peanuts.

[quote]3) I hate that gays come in two modes, Queeny McQueens or butch regular guys that you don’t even know are gay.

Maybe if we had more movies featuring gay characters we'd get more diversity and sometimes people do fall into those stereotypes.

[quote]4) I hate shows where black people can TIme Travel and it’s okay. That really annoys me.

How many shows are on tv that actually have time travel? Timeless? With one black character, Rufus? Rufus who constantly comments about the issues with traveling to different time periods? Oh, I see.

[quote] were written in a time when diversity didn’t have to be a consideration.

You already know what the iss... you know what. Never mind. You are probably neither black nor gay.

People can handle diversity in movies as long as it doesn't include ugly people.

Also wirh deadpool 2 jk cunt rowling has no excuse with straight washing dumbledore.

I'm all for more gay inclusion, but like others have said it would be great to see more regular gay characters who are not flaming stereotypes.

The Deadpool gay characters were great, however the fact that they were edited out of certain foreign markets was not so great. It is a start, though.

[quote]I was on a college campus here in Boston and went to the cafeteria and was actually surprised to notice there is still a "black table", seemed like a throwback

That's true at a lot of colleges.

I use virtue signaling and SJW if it fits and I'm not RW. Sorry, but there are virtue signalers, snowflakes and SJWs in this world. If the terms fit the person then I'm going to use them. Same with RWNJ and Trumptard etc. If you are a Right Wing Nut Job then I'm going to call you a RIght Wing Nut Job. As I said, if the term fits then I'm using it. You may not like to be called a virtue signaler, snowflake, SJW, RWNJ, Trumptard etc, but that's not my problem.

Don’t care about the deadpool couple because they were lesbos:/ nerds have no problem with hot lesbos.

I get so annoyed at people like R48 who has issues with a post, but dismisses it by saying that the person isn’t what he or she says that he is. You’re a clown. And oh so typical of how many so-called woke white millennials behave about issues of diversity. If more people of color had a seat at the table then you wouldn’t have this nonsense. They would create new and original material. What we have now is a diversity brought to you by a bunch of white people. It’s not authentic or real, it seems forced. Diversity will happen when more diverse writers, directors, and producers are brought into the discussion and are given the opportunity to produce their own content. Now, it’s just a lily white writers room and someone throws out let’s make Lois Lane black without understanding what that truly means.

OP:

You don't even have a range of white people working on this stuff. It's the same, rich, entitled cynical and pretend self-righteous assholes over and over.

r55 that poster isn't a millennial. He's much, much older.

True, r57. There is very, very little socioeconomic diversity in Hollywood. Most of them come from well-off backgrounds. It would be very interesting to see what came out of Hollywood if more screenwriters were from a more diverse class background.

The multi-ethnic 18th century Paris in Disney's live-action "Beauty and the Beast" WAS laying it on a bit thick, I must say.

[quote]And oh so typical of how many so-called woke white millennials behave about issues of diversity. If more people of color had a seat at the table then you wouldn’t have this nonsense. They would create new and original material. What we have now is a diversity brought to you by a bunch of white people. It’s not authentic or real, it seems forced.

R55, you want diverse writers and creators creating diverse products. I want that too.

The problem is there aren't enough people in Hollywood creating those things.

However, saying that they shouldn't bother isn't going to work because they still make up the majority and representation will end up being nil.

That's like saying I don't know how to fix a car so I'm going to wait until someone comes along who does.

There's a whole generation of children of color who need to see themselves somewhere and maybe they don't have the best people doing it all the time but occasionally you get a Lisa Turtle or a Annalise Keating and it works out.

This also ties into having better writers. Shonda has no problem writing people that don't look like her so why do so many white writers? Some don't bother to try to hire people to help them write things that make sense.

So what do you do if you don't know how to fix your car? You call for help.

Saying, I want them to hire more diverse writers is a good solution and hopefully that's where we are headed but it's still a nearly closed system that is very hard to break into.

Truly begging the question.

[quote]Shonda has no problem writing people that don't look like her so why do so many white writers?

They don't really. It's just when they do write for POC the public complains that white people shouldn't write for POC.

"3) I hate that gays come in two modes, Queeny McQueens or butch regular guys that you don’t even know are gay."

R13: That's so true! Have you seen that new Clearasil commercial? It's so stereotypical. How many gay men are really like that?

I've been out for nearly fifteen years. Most gay men are not like that. Apparently, the rich Jewish television executives in Hollywood and New York are very homophobic.

[quote]They don't really. It's just when they do write for POC the public complains that white people shouldn't write for POC.

Because they do such a shitty job.

It's a matter of opinion, r165.

[quote] It's just a pretty big change from the book that takes away a bit from the extremist horror of the regime in the book.

I agree, but most people haven't read the book.

And why is that? Because the only books that people are likely to read these days are "A Biography of My Titties" by Kim Kardashian, "A Sisterhood of Sluts" by Ariana and Frankie Grande, and "Not Without My Neovagina" by Caitlyn Jenner.

R66, it's not an opinion, it's a fact.

You can't write for someone who you can't understand. Whose life and experiences you could never comprehend.

So, then Shondra shouldn't write for white people then, r68.

I don't watch the show, R69, so I wouldn't know if it's shitty or not. But I assume having grown up watching a predominantly white world on TV, it came easy.

It doesn’t feel forced unless you live in a red state or may be a member of a Right wing hate group.

Ah, okay, I get it, r70, you're commenting on things that you have not experienced. Good to know.

It's forced to hit every American market. It's all about $.

[quote]Ah, okay, I get it, [R70], you're commenting on things that you have not experienced. Good to know

I'm commenting on what I've *actually* watched - the one dimensional, caricatures of POC. The overwhelming majority written by white guys.

So I guess you're saying Shonda is a shitty writer who can't write for white people - good to know. Let her know.

Hollywood would have you believe that every entitled white cunt/douchebro who lives in NY or LA has a best friend who's black. In reality, black people can't stand people like that.

So, r74, when you say "I don't watch the show", you really mean "I'm a racist, who gives POC a pass without question.". Got it.

Shonda is actually a shitty writer, period.

[quote]So, [R74], when you say "I don't watch the show", you really mean "I'm a racist, who gives POC a pass without question.". Got it.

Not what I said. If Shonda is a shitty writer, then that's your opinion. I have no opinion on that because I've never watched. I have an opinion on what I actually watch and since the overwhelming majority of writers are white men, am I not allowed to point that f a c t out when I see a lot of the shit they put out is so one dimensional? I happen to be half-Palestinian. You think I get to see that perspective on TV or film or even the news media? No, I get some vilified representation of my people. I get the media dehumanizing my people. I get some "Homeland/24" bullshit written by people who have already decided how my heritage will always be portrayed. Just put a towel on some brown guy's head, hand him a giant sword and have him scream in some foreign-sounding gibberish and voila: A-rab.

The Lisa Turtles and the Annalise Keatings aren't the problem. They are original characters. It's when someone says, let's make Veronica Lodge a Latina is what I have a problem with. They don't explain how this Hispanic family with old world mob connections got the an old Anglo Wasp last name. All of sudden Veronica Lodge who epitomes rich, white, one percent becomes a Latina. They are two different experiences and in many ways two different world views.

What if they took Charlotte's Web and made Charlotte a mosquito? What if someone decided to remake Lord of the Flies with all girls instead of boys, don't you think it would completely change the dynamics?

Inclusion and diversity are wonderful things and I want more of it, as long as it makes sense. Whether Shonda is a shitty writer or not, the fact is the diversity on her shows is great and makes sense.

R79 I wonder if you noticed it so strongly when Jesus was being played by a white man for ages.

Since when are Semites not white?

Jesus probably looked like Neil Diamond.

The more I think about it, the more I think Jesus WAS white, it is why he stood out so much.

What about Audra Mcdonald in Beauty and the Beast live action version?

The problem isn't diversity, the problem is that the creators, etc... have to go on and on patting themselves on the back and reminding everyone how great they are for promoting diversity. If they would just depict natural diversity, without bringing attention to it, people wouldn't notice it and get worked up over it.

R83 It's Beauty and the Beast, who cares that there is black people in it, it is a Fairy Tale. If I can accept that in this movie there is a man turned into a beast by a magic curse, I can accept Black people in old-time France.

The historical Jesus look like the Palestianians. Chew on THAT racists

Nobody really knows if Jesus even existed at all.

I want more gay characters in movies and primetime, but you don't really get any decent portrayals. Name a gay character that you find relatable or is like someone that you personally know on a TV show or in movies? Wouldn't you like to see someone who accurate represents you?

[quote]Since when are Semites not white? Jesus probably looked like Neil Diamond.

How dumb are you? Do you understand that there's a difference between being alive thousands of years ago in a part of the world where everyone was dark back then vs going through time and people inter-mixing over thousands of years as they move around the world?

R86 Why would you imagine that Jesus would look like Palestinians, most of whom migrated to Palestine well after his death? At the time of Christ, Palestine was Jewish, and he would therefore look like a Jew. Jews did not intermarry much until the last 100 years, because they didn't desire to and they weren't allowed, so the appearance of the Jewish people has not changed much.

The transparent optics boil down to one thing: Hollywood is overrun and overrepresented by super socially-conscious Jews (both men and women) and they're trying to pretend it's not by over-diversifying their product - it's not quite white guilt but more like white Jewish guilt. The "diversity hire" on TV shows is a fucking joke and insulting because it's rarely organic. And since when can only one type of person write one type of character? These are the kinds of things idiots running shows like Grey's Anatomy obsess over. Trust me.

R90? There has never been a point in the history of that land where the people were only ever Jewish. EVER. And the lie you tell yourself that Jews never converted is idiotic. The most contested piece of land was never ever Jewish and the idea that European Jews have more of a claim than my family -who get mistaken for Israeli- is beyond preposterous. Stop spreading your revisionist bullshit which is on par with Holocaust deniers. It doesn't matter that you spread the lie over and over again, I've seen my heritage. I've visited my heritage and no Ashkenazi will ever change that no matter how many times you repeat the lie.

never ever only Jewish*

and I'm not going to go back-and-forth with a person who has no conscience. You have to lie to invalidate who I am. It won't work. Save your lives for the imitation cheese of Christianity: Evangelicals.

lies*. But "lives" work as they're trying to "save" you from your religion.

[quote]The "diversity hire" on TV shows is a fucking joke and insulting because it's rarely organic.

The good thing about the diversity hire is that it allows underrepresented communities a shot to at least built contacts and to get a foot in the door. Look at Donald Glover. It's just so hard to break in.

Easy one word answer--propaganda. There was some remake of "Rosemary's Baby" recently with Rosemary as a black woman. Of course it fell flat on its face. Nothing compares to the original movie with Mia Farrow made by the now oh-so-discredited Roman Polanski.

I'm confused about this diversity situation. I see people of all colors, races, religions etc on tv all the time, also in movies, commercials, print ads, etc. We just had Black Panther, a movie with just about all black characters that was a box office hit, one of the most successful ever! So...I'm just wondering, how much diversity will qualify as "enough" diversity? I imagine everyone would have a different perspective on that. So what is the answer?

I never said it was "only" Jewish, but it was dominated by the Jewish people and under a Jewish government until the Roman Expulsion, that isn't revisionist history but FACT. It is also a fact that Jesus, as presented in the Bible, was a Jew, not from some other Palestinian tribe or group of people. Also, the idea that European Jews, are not Jews descended from Palestine Jews, is itself a revisionist conspiracy theory, that has been debunked by DNA analysis, that proves that the Ashkenazi are descended from men from the Middle East who took local wives, and then cut off intermarriage after the first generation. The Khazar hypothesis is a lie.

I just realized that Ashkenazi has the word Nazi in it. What a mindfuck.

[quote]It's when someone says, let's make Veronica Lodge a Latina is what I have a problem with. They don't explain how this Hispanic family with old world mob connections got the an old Anglo Wasp last name. All of sudden Veronica Lodge who epitomes rich, white, one percent becomes a Latina. They are two different experiences and in many ways two different world views.

There's nothing wrong with featuring a rich Hispanic family as central characters in a TV dramedy. But the Lodges from Archie are not those people. Riverdale would be a perfectly fine program without its sketchy adherence to some Archie Comics details.

That high school Netflix show. Can’t think of the name right now. A black kid was attracted to a white guy who was cute at best. I think their parents also get together and believe it was set in a different era. It was cancelled anyway.

Feelings are not facts. Feelings are not facts. Feelings are not facts.

Now go back under your bridge and let the usual frolic resume!

I gave up on Riverdale. It calls all its characters by "Archie" names, but it's really got little else to do with "Archie." Poor KJ Apa. They could have done the same show, essentially, without his having to dye his hair.

I'm all for diversity. Specifically more gay characters and more gay sex scenes with penile and hole shots. Unless they're ugly then gross.

r104 And the Sprouse boy could have eschewed wearing that hat.

R88 Yeah, gay characters are a fucking joke, they are so effeminate. ✌

Seriously, I think it's because it has moved beyond the actual ratios of races that exist in reality. It's not like we were sitting there counting person by person and figuring out the percentages in our heads every time we watched something but we have a general idea in mind for our individual countries. As an American, I recognize that our society is about 50/50 male/female, 70% white, 12% black, 8% Hispanic, 4% Asian, etc.

So, when watching a movie or television show where, say, nine out of ten characters are male, I sense something is off. Similarly, when I watch a television show where the majority of characters are white with a few minority characters in the mix, that seems about right if the show is supposed to take place in "average America". It's not racist, it's just real. When, suddenly the shows that purportedly represent "average America" have six black characters, one white character, one female character, seven male characters, no Hispanics or Asians, and, lately, 27 transgendered teenagers we inherently sense that something is off.

As the ratios change in the real world, entertainment should definitely reflect that. When it goes too far away from reality, things just feel off to a lot of people.

Plenty of changes are made to accommodate appearance and age of actors, to make location shooting cheaper, to appease some producer or star who's a diva, to update a story for a more modern audience.

It doesn't make sense to have no problem with any of that but then get bent out of shape about "too much diversity."

Its also weird to see complaints about, say, black people in public in the 1940s "looking weird." British colonies meant a lot of African and Middle Eastern and Asian people immigrated to London, especially during WWII and WWII.

R109, you think a bunch people immigrated to London during WWII--when it was being bombed? Uh, no.

You don't get your first big influx of non-white immigrants to Britain until after WWII.

R109, currently London is only 13% black. So, in shows and movies taking place in present-day London, about 1 in 10 characters being black would be about right. That number would be much lower in the past. Even if it was only 50% lower, that would be 1 in 20 characters in historical dramas. And, those characters, if being true to history, would not be anything but the lowest class of citizen with the very, very rare exception.

I don't think, r110, I know because I looked it up, unlike you and 80% of DLers who are certain their random opinions are full fledged facts.

[quote]World War I was another small growth period for blacks in London. Their communities grew with the arrival of merchant seaman and soldiers. At the same time there is also a continuous presence of small groups of students from Africa and the Caribbean slowly immigrating into London.

[quote]World War II marked another growth period for black immigrants into London and British societies. Many black people from the Caribbean and West Africa arrived in small groups of troops as wartime workers, merchant seamen, and servicemen from the army, navy, and air forces.

R78, you should re-read your comment. It is what you said.

I agree with everything you said R108, it's simple logic really.

Thanks, R114. Logic and numbers will usually do the trick.

R112, "small groups"--i.e. not a "big influx"--having some black servicemen doesn't constitute a large immigrant group.

My point stands. I also looked it up and, unlike you, notice adjectives.

I watch a lot of British shows and they are really trying to be all inclusive. Most of the time it looks put on, especially with gay and lesbian characters. One thing I’ve noticed though, there are hardly Andy Eastern Europeans. Didn’t the leave campaign use hatered towards EEs to stir xenophobic sentiments? I find that odd. Is BBC conflicted about this?

R117, I noticed that Doctor Who was very carefully including blacks in a lot of episodes, but hardly any South Asians, even though the Anglo-Indian population is larger and more established than the British black population.

There have been two black companions, no Indian ones.

Meanwhile, in the United States, diversity means whites and blacks, but seldom Latinos and Asians, even though Latinos make up a larger percentage of the U.S. population than do African-Americans.

And, yes, it does feel forced when Lost in Space arranges for the Robinsons to have a lone black daughter in the name of diversity. Or Wrinkle in Time turns the white family in the book into a biracial family that's adopted a Phillipino kid for good measure.

The diversity I like is stuff like Moana, Coco and Jane the Virgin--things where you don't just colorwash or whitewash to hit a quota, but actually bring in some cultural diversity into the stories being told. I'm also fine with Hermione being POC--yes, I think she was written as white since Rowling had casting approval in the movies--but Rowling's fine with it and thematically it works with Hermione being a wizarding outsider with muggle parents.

Jews are bizarrely overrepresented in TV and film. Every credited writer is a Jew. They are the threshold guardians and they only want to let in those they deem no real threat -- a smattering of women here and there, some blacks, some latinos -- but they don't want to allow any white non-Jew male or female in. It's amazing how this is NEVER addressed by anyone ever. It's like the massive elephant in the room. But sure, let's instead focus on underrepresentation of certain groups instead of OVER representation of others.

Oy, bubbe! Antisemite alert at R119!!

Very true R119, I have seen this very topic discussed quite a lot recently, many are noticing this.

You can't call out the Jews on any of their bullshit or they scream anti-semitism. It's ridiculous. No cultural group should be beyond reproach or observational analysis. The thin is so skin it screams GUILTY and THREATENED by the truth.

Hollywood is very much a game of connections, even more so behind the scenes. People look out for friends, family, and children of various associates. That’s not a crime, it’s the American way.