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We must try to understand how unwanted virginity leads self-hating incels to murder

8 May 2018

By Amelia Tait

One year and three months ago, I wrote a warning on the New Statesman website. Arguing that we needed to broaden our definition of terrorism to include white men who were radicalised online, I wrote of my fear that mass murderer Elliot Rodger would inspire a “new generation”. In 2014, 22-year-old Rodger killed six people in an act of revenge designed to punish women for “denying” him sex.

In April 2018, a van driver mounted the pavement in Toronto and killed ten people. The accused murderer, 25-year-old Alec Minassian, wrote on Facebook minutes before the attack: “All hail the Supreme Gentleman Elliot Rodger!”

Rodger and Minassian both belonged to a community known as “incels” – and they were not lone wolves. Incel is a slang term used to describe someone who is an “involuntary celibate”, ie a person who desires sex but isn’t having it. Online, incels are part of the “manosphere”, a toxic group of misogynistic men who openly hate women. On the discussion website Reddit, incels gather to lament their lack of sexual success – and there, they have their unwanted virginity transformed into violent, life-threatening misogyny.

“All women are sluts,” read a popular post on Reddit’s incels forum, before it was banned in November 2017. “Every bitch out there, regardless of their race, religion, virginity status, is a slut.” Another post listed, in bullet-point form, 23 “reasons why women are the embodiment of evil”, while elsewhere, many users excused or advocated rape. Before it was shut down, the incels page had accumulated 40,000 members.

“In these spaces, the collective scapegoating of women for a plethora of social and personal problems provides a sense of solidarity and self-validation,” says Debbie Ging, a communications professor at Dublin City University and the author of a paper entitled Alphas, Betas, and Incels: Theorizing the Masculinities of the Manosphere. “The incel community enables men to redirect a range of frustrations – including self-loathing – outward, on to women.” Ging argues that incels are motivated by a political ideology characterised by their own brand of evolutionary psychology. Incels believe that women are programmed to desire only alpha males. They see women as obsessed with “marrying up”, and therefore inherently self-serving and untrustworthy. “Given that some adherents have demonstrated that they are prepared to act on these beliefs, monitoring [incels] as potential terrorists makes sense,” Ging says.

Online incel communities should absolutely be monitored by anti-terrorism organisations, as I have argued before. Yet to end this evil, we also need to understand how and why incels are radicalised. Branding them “pathetic” and “lonely weirdos” – as the mainstream press has done since the Toronto attack – reinforces the toxic masculinity that drives ordinary, sexually frustrated teenagers to identify as incels in the first place.

“I was fat, acned, bullied, didn’t know how to eat right, exercise, socialise…” says Jimi, a 29-year-old Australian artist and former incel. He describes how he became obsessed by sex as a pre-teen, and quickly grew frustrated that he couldn’t find a girlfriend.

“I became extremely prejudiced against women,” he tells me. “It seemed, from the perspective of my suffering, that women had this certain power denying me my sexual experience.” Jimi (who is quoted here under a pseudonym) says he thought of women as “tools to orgasm with” in his teenage years. He firmly believes that incels’ hatred of women is rooted in self-hatred.

On Reddit, the incel forum re-emerged with a new name – “braincels” – after the ban, and here, users frequently refer to themselves as “deformed” and “subhuman”. Many write about their struggles with depression, body dysmorphia or Asperger’s syndrome.

[Full article at link]:

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 118May 13, 2018 8:54 AM

Most of them are severely mentally ill. I've been to that incel-forum and I found posts of men saying that women should have no rights, that women should 'stay in their place,' and some lunatic even suggested that men should be able to buy women at auctions. Completely insane. I also found someone complaining that women are nicer to 'faggots' than to incels. Guess fucking why, bitch.

by Anonymousreply 1May 10, 2018 8:19 AM

Inadvertent glamorization of terror cells is my guess.

by Anonymousreply 2May 10, 2018 8:22 AM

[quote]Jimi (who is quoted here under a pseudonym) says he thought of women as “tools to orgasm with"

And they wonder why women want nothing to do with them...FFS.

by Anonymousreply 3May 10, 2018 8:22 AM

Incel, another idiotic abbreviation I won't use.

by Anonymousreply 4May 10, 2018 8:38 AM

Being unfuckable and unfucked is the ultimate insult to white privilege.

Society cucks them as no one fucks them.

by Anonymousreply 5May 10, 2018 8:54 AM

In current society there has always got to be someone else to blame. Fat, smelly, no social skills, virulent hatred of women and unwilling to improve but STILL can’t get laid? Those evil women are to blame.

These guys are truly scary.

by Anonymousreply 6May 10, 2018 9:01 AM

Since those poor souls find their virginity to be so onerous, some selfless DLers will take on the task of relieving them of that burden.

by Anonymousreply 7May 10, 2018 9:07 AM

On the other thread I was saying that the FBI ought to monitor them the way it monitors any potential terrorist organization. This guys are angry and irrational, and it won't take much to tip the crazier ones into real-life violence.

by Anonymousreply 8May 10, 2018 9:14 AM

They should just fuck each other.

by Anonymousreply 9May 10, 2018 9:14 AM

Is being "incel" one of the internets first created mental illnesses? I mean, I know the MRA existed before the internet, but incels are a different animal. Would these cry-babies even exist if they hadn't found each other on the internet to feed into their sense of entitlement?

by Anonymousreply 10May 10, 2018 9:24 AM

[quote]Would these cry-babies even exist if they hadn't found each other on the internet to feed into their sense of entitlement?

TOTALLY. One of the many downfalls of society are creeps being able to find each other--intentionally OR by accident--via the Internet.

by Anonymousreply 11May 10, 2018 9:37 AM

Gads, listen to the clucking DL pussy hats!

Another shit "article" written by someone demonstrating her lack of of sandwich-making skills. White this, male that..blah-blah wymmyn sheep, have you any bull? Yes ma'am, yes ma'am, three waves full!

Rodger was a mischling-half Asian, IIRC. NOT white, just as many of these mass killers haven't been white. But your-cunt-on-the-scene Amanda ain't gonna bother mentioning all those inconvenient facts that jostle the pedestals of "The Narrative".

by Anonymousreply 12May 10, 2018 9:44 AM

They create black holes across the internet and feed each other, then one will break loose and go outside and kill some people. He then will be labelled a hero by the black hole. Rinse and repeat.

by Anonymousreply 13May 10, 2018 10:00 AM

If any of the lot had a single redeeming quality that would make them deserving of 'understanding' they wouldn't be the fuckable dregs of humanity even they acknowledge themselves as being.

by Anonymousreply 14May 10, 2018 10:16 AM

[quote]Rodger was a mischling-half Asian, IIRC. NOT white, just as many of these mass killers haven't been white. But your-cunt-on-the-scene Amanda ain't gonna bother mentioning all those inconvenient facts that jostle the pedestals of "The Narrative".

So, your objection to her theory is that despite the MAJORITY of mass killers in the US being Caucasian, it has no validity because she overlooks the percentage of their non-white heritage?

Dude, we know that you’re DL’s very own white nationalist but does that minutia really change anything here? Do you know if this kid even claimed his ‘mischling-half Asian’ heritage?

by Anonymousreply 15May 10, 2018 10:22 AM

Would love to see the Venn diagram between incels and Republican men. Basically just two overlapping circles, I’m guessing.

by Anonymousreply 16May 10, 2018 10:52 AM

This community was created, fostered, and nurtured LONG ago, in order to keep women away from power, especially in politics, and specifically out of the Oval Office.

It’s all bullshit propaganda and it worked! Dumb fucks have bought it, hook, line and sinker.

I find it curious that ugly men managed to get married and laid once upon a time, before the internet.

by Anonymousreply 17May 10, 2018 11:10 AM

These men have always existed. The only difference is now they have the ability to communicate with other like-minded men through social media.

Why the sudden need to make up a name for them and act like they are something new?

by Anonymousreply 18May 10, 2018 11:14 AM

The overlap is incels, MRAs, and trans.

Sociopaths, women haters, no social skills, demanding sex from others (women ) yet doing nothing to fix their deeply unpleasant personalities -the real reason they have no relationships. Their "identities"/ideologies are all hardened (and bolstered ) via the internet. It aids their hatred , extremism and disconnect from reality.

by Anonymousreply 19May 10, 2018 11:17 AM

What R16 said - sad, but probably somewhat true.

by Anonymousreply 20May 10, 2018 11:17 AM

What R19 said. This isn't a Republican thing.

by Anonymousreply 21May 10, 2018 11:19 AM

Hip-hop is the same as Incel. It isn't new at all, yet all the entitled unoriginal people have managed to connect with each other using the internet.

by Anonymousreply 22May 10, 2018 11:26 AM

R22 you're not very bright are you?

by Anonymousreply 23May 10, 2018 11:31 AM

"Hip-hop is the same as Incel."

You'll need to lay down some Incel rhymes to convince me.

by Anonymousreply 24May 10, 2018 11:32 AM

R22 kind of like the Beatles “Run For Your Life” or Pink Floyd's, “Don’t Leave Me Now”

How could you go? When you know how I need you To beat to a pulp on a Saturday night

by Anonymousreply 25May 10, 2018 11:36 AM

Mmmmm all seems to be connected one way or the other

by Anonymousreply 26May 10, 2018 11:44 AM

[quote]I also found someone complaining that women are nicer to 'f-ggots' than to incels. Guess fucking why, bitch.

Exactly, and that's why I've called out the incels and MRAs when they've come here, because in their own spaces they're homophobic. They'll have entire threads about "the gays" which are just old 1970s sitcom stereotypes and inevitably one person identifying as a gay incel will show up to say "it's all true." Nasty stuff.

by Anonymousreply 27May 10, 2018 11:53 AM

Being incel isn't a mental illness, I don't think, but more a symptom of another antisocial disorder of some sort.

Someone upthread said they were probably Republicans but the ones I've seen on Twitter were BernieBros, for what it's worth.

by Anonymousreply 28May 10, 2018 11:57 AM

Unwanted virginity leads to murder? What about all those "psychosexual" serial killers of yesteryear who were anything but virgins and were raping and murdering dozens of men and women before getting caught?

That's who these psycho Incels are. They're Boston Stranglers and Jeffrey Dahmners-in-training who, for lack of prostitutes and hitchhikers to rape and kill, are just inflicting their homicidal tendencies on the public.

by Anonymousreply 29May 10, 2018 12:07 PM

Boo fucking hoo. Nobody on earth gets all the sex they want. If these little pricks got off the internet and tried to develop a personality, maybe girls would talk to them.

Elliott Rodger had no reason to be lonely, he was cute; I think he was even rich. If you insist on blaming everyone else for your toxicity then yeah, you won’t get dates.

by Anonymousreply 30May 10, 2018 12:08 PM

It's a good point, r29. There's always some excuse -- sexual deviancy, unwanted celibacy, broken engagement, mommy issues. Maybe they're just psychopaths, folks.

by Anonymousreply 31May 10, 2018 12:11 PM

Most of these guys are race mixed at best. This war on whites is becoming tiresome.

by Anonymousreply 32May 10, 2018 12:17 PM

[quote] Why the sudden need to make up a name for them and act like they are something new?

Because they created the name themselves (because I doubt they knew about a woman creating the name in a more sympathetic/empathetic way back in the early 90s) and now choose to identify with it?

Read some of their posts. Some of them DO end up having sex... but they always rationalize that it "doesn't count" so they are still incels.

Incels is how they identify and group together. They have a shared way of thinking and gather to socialize with each other and radicalize. They're lonely men who wanted to feel like they belong and wanted to let frustration out and they know if they don't identify as incel then that's one less thing that they ARE.

It's basically like they (and white straight men in general) noticed that black people, latino people, women, lgbt people, etc can all gather together and talk about the relatively same experience and they (straight white guys) can't do that. There's a black twitter, a gay twitter, a latino twitter, etc and women have started hashtags like yesallwomen where this sort of shit happens but straight white men don't have this... because they have everything else. It wouldn't be special for them to have something like that, so when they finally DID have a place to gather to talk about the same experience, it turns into shit like this, where they want to oppress others. Cause you know straight white guys aren't the most oppressed people out there and thus don't have experiences like that for the level of camaraderie that other groups have.

by Anonymousreply 33May 10, 2018 12:20 PM

[quote]your-cunt-on-the-scene Amanda

^Spotted the incel.

Almost any of these guys could get laid. Their problem is they think they’re entitled to “hot chicks”. They don’t seek out plain women or women on their level of attractiveness.

by Anonymousreply 34May 10, 2018 12:24 PM

R34, many of them probably give off such a serial killer vibe that women want nothing to do with them, even if they're okay-looking.

by Anonymousreply 35May 10, 2018 12:26 PM

ENTITLEMENT is the thing they all have in common. As much as they may hate themselves, they still feel that the universe or God or society somehow OWES them what they want, which is sex with hot women. r34 also has it right: these guys don't just want sex with any female, they think they deserve sex with the hottest ones. They are narcissists who only care about other peoples' feelings to the extent that they identify with those other people (other incels), and they don't view women as being thinking/feeling/autonomous people at all, just fuckholes. The reason virtually all incels are white is because no other race has that sense of ENTITLEMENT.

They also radicalize one another and as with any gang or terrorist organization, if someone has doubts or tries to leave, the others put a ton of pressure on him to stay in the fold, even if that means making him feel totally worthless and unfuckable. They're all reinforcing the self-hatred through emotional abuse and effectively brainwashing each other (like religious fundies do! fun!).

by Anonymousreply 36May 10, 2018 12:39 PM

After watching way too many episodes of Jerry Springer and Maury, I find it very difficult to believe these incel guys can't get laid. These shows are nothing but a parade of women lamenting the fact that the boyfriends/husbands/lovers are cheating on them, don't work,, don't take care of the kids, don't help out with the house work, drink too much, do too many drugs, beat them up, and on and on and on. Then they bring out said boyfriend/husband/lover and he's some greasy, scrawny, ugly dirtball scumbag. The kicker comes when asked why they simply don't throw the asshole out or leave him, the women inevitably say they love the guy and can't bear being without him.

So the bar is set pretty damn low, and women will basically fuck anything with a pulse, so why can't these Incel guys get laid? What is up with that?

by Anonymousreply 37May 10, 2018 12:42 PM

But, don't try to use rationality here. It isn't truly that they "can't get laid." It's that they hate women, regardless, because they aren't treating them like kings. Nearly every one of these assholes COULD get laid, but it must be under all their exact terms and, even then, they'd still be psycho. There's no rationalizing them at all, I think.

by Anonymousreply 38May 10, 2018 1:01 PM

Why don't these guys get mail order brides?????

by Anonymousreply 39May 10, 2018 1:27 PM

They want rich hot horny loyal girlfriends like Stacy. Mail order brides only like Chad.

by Anonymousreply 40May 10, 2018 1:32 PM

Come on boys! we need to rally round and pop them butt cherries ....

by Anonymousreply 41May 10, 2018 1:42 PM

[QUOTE]Then they bring out said boyfriend/husband/lover and he's some greasy, scrawny, ugly dirtball scumbag. The kicker comes when asked why they simply don't throw the asshole out or leave him, the women inevitably say they love the guy and can't bear being without him.

Yes, the bar is low when it comes to pulling fraus, R37, but you fail to mention that Mr. Dirtbag has game and self confidence through the roof. He doesn’t fester over his imperfections, he doesn’t shy away from contact with people. He goes out to a party and people gravitate towards him because he tells funny stories and clowns around. That’s all it takes to attract mates: some self esteem, and these incel guys have absolutely none of it.

by Anonymousreply 42May 10, 2018 1:46 PM

Pointless article on a very tiny group of guys that only serves to give them more attention. And I always hate articles that start with "As I said xxx months/years ago" because it shows the main purpose is self-aggrandization of the author.

by Anonymousreply 43May 10, 2018 1:47 PM

[quote]Exactly, and that's why I've called out the incels and MRAs when they've come here, because in their own spaces they're homophobic.

I don't believe that MRAs and Incels come here, but I do believe that there are fraus that like to police DL with this kind of retort against posts they think are anti-women.

by Anonymousreply 44May 10, 2018 1:56 PM

No r44, I’ve seen far too many MRA assholes on here. Truly horrible hate filled misogynistic statements are made in the expectation that all gay men will agree with them. Stuff way beyond the frau parodies or average, everyday misogyny. There are some seriously fucked up people with rage issues and a deep hatred of women who post here.

by Anonymousreply 45May 10, 2018 2:02 PM

[quote] and women will basically fuck anything with a pulse,

Love it when men project their low standards onto women. It's clearly men who will fuck anything. Look at the guys who are considered hot around here. R42, you are just as pathetic as these "incels". Hanging on a board for straight men. Apinh their language while they call you faggot.

by Anonymousreply 46May 10, 2018 2:09 PM

I think these guys are actually self hating, closeted, pedophiles.

I mentioned upthread that I went on to one of their popular websites. They have this whole forum, as part of the website, where they discuss that women are complete and utter whores. They discuss that by the time a girl reaches her senior year in high school, they’ve fucked hundreds of guys, and by the time they reach 25, even the prettiest ones are unfuckable. Their solution? Lower the age of consent to 12!!! They believe that this is their largest, and most optimal window of opportunity! I’m not even kidding here. And neither are they.

How much do you all wanna bet that these assholes are all sitting around downloading and watching child pornagraphy? I find it really out there, that the solution to finding a suitable partner, is lowering the age of consent to 12 years of age.

by Anonymousreply 47May 10, 2018 2:11 PM

[QUOTE]Hanging on a board for straight men. Apinh their language while they call you faggot.

What in the hell are you talking about? And since when does any language belong to straight men? Is there some sort of gay language I should be using? Maybe sprinkle in a few “gurls” here and there?

by Anonymousreply 48May 10, 2018 2:12 PM

[quote]There are some seriously fucked up people with rage issues and a deep hatred of women who post here.

There are some seriously fucked up people with rage issues towards lots of groups of people that post here and it's always been so, though admittedly 10 years ago it got more intense. That is not proof of an Incel/MRA invasion. It's an anonymous board and gay men do not think with a hive mind.

by Anonymousreply 49May 10, 2018 2:18 PM

We must NOT try to understand, OP. You’re a troll.

by Anonymousreply 50May 10, 2018 2:20 PM

You guys are trying to rationalize dudes with Aspergers. They don't think the same way normal people do and I don't know if there really is anything they could do to have normal interpersonal relationships.

They can try to mimic others but they really don't understand how normal people think so there is always gonna be something off about them that prevents them from appealing to women. It's not their appearance. Well not always anyway. It's the vibe they give off that turns women off.

by Anonymousreply 51May 10, 2018 2:22 PM

Straight men talk about "incels" and "game" and all that garbage. Straight men are notorious for exaggerating and bragging about things they suck at. What straight guy is going to brag about getting rejected thousands of times or getting beat up by his girlfriend? That happens all the time. Straight men are degraded clowns. Has listening to Donald Trump's tape taught you nothing? He can't attract women, so he uses the lure of a green card. You are a good uncle tomasina though, copying them while they call you faggot.

by Anonymousreply 52May 10, 2018 2:25 PM

[quote] What in the hell are you talking about? And since when does any language belong to straight men? Is there some sort of gay language I should be using?

Uncle Tomasina, go fetch for your bro master.

by Anonymousreply 53May 10, 2018 2:31 PM

It just seems that a number of factors are coming together to encourage young men ( mostly ) who are severely alienated to find something to identify with ( Islamism, alt-right, Incels ), latch on to and then act out in as extreme a manner as possible because they recognise they are unlikely to achieve the status in life they feel they deserve or want.

The nihilism begins with the realisation what is most likely is that they will work all their life for no great return, end up in an unhappy marriage or divorced, never achieving much of what they see as bringing status today and then just grows from there. Social media allows the immediate and highly effective dissemination of toxic ideas and feeds on itself creating the perfect storm.

If there is not already some mental illness then, at some point, there is a slip from rationality to fanaticism in some form. Empathy decreases exponentially and, ultimately, they are able to rationalise the “ I’ll take some with me when I go out in a blaze of glory “ mindset.

Ironically, what gives them a twisted sense of self worth leads them to becoming a worthless human being. What they see as empowerment is just the hijacking of their impotence.

There have always been men full of rage. But now they can find their own particular echo chamber and join a circle jerk of hatred easily.

by Anonymousreply 54May 10, 2018 2:31 PM

[quote] Yes, the bar is low when it comes to pulling fraus, [R37], but you fail to mention that Mr. Dirtbag has game and self confidence through the roof.

That is total bs. All these dirtbags have low self esteem and believe they are not worth loving and they have to TRICK women into falling for them and then have to use physical and mental abuse to keep them. And it works in cases where the women are just doormats with low self esteem issues themselves. These guys act confident to impress people. It's like gay guys who fall for the "straight acting", alpha male", "masc" nonsense. The ones acting like that have a chip on their shoulder and the ones falling for it have low self esteem issues.

by Anonymousreply 55May 10, 2018 2:46 PM

Why can't these guys just buy a Fleshlight? Problem solved.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 56May 10, 2018 2:47 PM

Sometimes I think the internet was created (only) for the very reason to get mentally unstable idiots together so they can be manipulated more effectively.

by Anonymousreply 57May 10, 2018 2:48 PM

Stop giving them attention.

by Anonymousreply 58May 10, 2018 2:48 PM

The problem is that they get attention from snake oil salesmen who recruit them for their devious causes.

by Anonymousreply 59May 10, 2018 2:52 PM

Yes but then these earnest women writers use the incels to write their earnest thinkpieces on sexism. They've created a cottage industry of schlock. These guys are outliers and losers who live for the attention. They have no power and no organization. I don't know why we give them attention here on DL.

by Anonymousreply 60May 10, 2018 2:58 PM

What's with these attempts to control the narrative though comments like like "incels are not (only) Republicans / not totally white / totally getting laid but not counting it as getting laid / Incels TOTALLY don't show up her and it's men hating feminist Nazis who pose as Incels / etc." ?

by Anonymousreply 61May 10, 2018 3:02 PM

[quote]These guys are outliers and losers who live for the attention. They have no power and no organization.

No power? Tell that to the women killed by that nut in Toronto, or the women murdered at a Shapes gym a few years back. Not organized? There are dozens of high profile online outlets where these assholes congregate.

You’re no fucking expert.

by Anonymousreply 62May 10, 2018 3:02 PM

Sorry, ... Incels TOTALLY don't show up HERE

not her

by Anonymousreply 63May 10, 2018 3:04 PM

R51 people with Aspergers can have sexual/romantic relationships but it takes work and insight, and some understanding from their partners. Elliot Rodger seems to have been an extreme case who just couldn't connect with any human beings, male or female.

by Anonymousreply 64May 10, 2018 3:05 PM

[quote] We must try to understand how unwanted virginity leads self-hating incels to murder

No, we don't. I refuse sympathy and understanding for any group that supports and rationalizes rape and murder.

by Anonymousreply 65May 10, 2018 3:06 PM

r65, PREACH!

by Anonymousreply 66May 10, 2018 3:07 PM

Why can't you give me...the SEX...that I'm ENTITLED TO!!!!!!!!!

by Anonymousreply 67May 10, 2018 3:10 PM

Back when I was in college there was this oddball guy in my English class who I could tell was off by how he participated in class. One day he brought in a can of “Slim Fast” shake for our overweight professor. He totally thought it was a kind gesture not getting how awkward it was for the professor.

First thing that came to mind was the dude was Aspie. In that guys mind bringing her such a “gift” was a completely normal thing to do. Now imagine a guy with that mindset trying to pick up a woman. He just wasn’t really capable of understanding what was appropriate when interacting with others.

A lot of these guys end up working with computers because then they don’t have to deal with people but also because computers make sense to them. Computers are predicable and follow a set of concrete rules while people don’t work that way.

Not all of them are as bad off as the guy in my class but it gives you an idea of how their minds work. I actually feel sorry for the ones who aren’t hateful angry assholes. Those guys-fuck em. I hope most of them are just venting or exaggerating for attention on the internet because otherwise they are creepy as fuck.

by Anonymousreply 68May 10, 2018 3:27 PM

A handjob is only $5 in most major cities. Whats the problem?

by Anonymousreply 69May 10, 2018 3:53 PM

To some extent social anxiety and awkwardness can be counteracted through a support system IF the guy WANTS to deal with the issues he suffers from. Incels do not want to work on themselves (and want others to help, and support, him to work on himself. They waste their time on blaming others and keep blaiming them. Their perception of reality is that "if only others would behave the way they should there wouldn't be any problem at all!". They are sociopath who believe the problems lies with the others standing in their way to greatness ... or to get laid.

by Anonymousreply 70May 10, 2018 3:59 PM

Things would be different if we went back to sex between men and women only being allowed within the confines of marriage. Then the incels would have a reason why they are not allowed to have sex. Same-sex pleasures as a release would of course be allowed and encouraged.

by Anonymousreply 71May 10, 2018 4:02 PM

r71, This is what's wrong with society these days: YOU have to change to please others! Do not offend others by being yourself! You have to ask them what they like and you are supposed to please them by doing whatever they like you to do (or be) no matter what you believe is right for you.

Now you suggest that in order to solve the Incel problem others have to change, because why? It's the others who are the problem and not the Incels? Or the Incels are too dangerous to be asked to deal with their own issues?

by Anonymousreply 72May 10, 2018 4:08 PM

The biggest issue with a lot of these guys is that they are a 3 but think they should be fucking a 10. They really think a beautiful women should date some troll who spends his free-time playing video games and jacking off to porn. Most of them probably won’t give a woman that’s overweight the time of day.

by Anonymousreply 73May 10, 2018 4:18 PM

R33 I get where you’re coming from, but anyone who is not a straight white male from a Christian familial background is part of the minority class in the USA (and maybe the world).

Meaning, Twitter is for straight white men. Black, gay, Latino twitter is for the rest of us...the people straight white males have cast out (outcasts).

So it’s a (white, straight) man’s world. All the rules made are made BY them FOR them. So the system is stacked on their favor by design.

Problem is the second paragraph of the American Declaration of Independence: “all men are created equal.” That was written by a white, male slave owner. The cognitive dissonance can last only so long. It’s time for us to live up to our ideals.

For example: straight white men like booze. So alcohol is everywhere. Heck, the White House physician can drink on the job.

But straight white people don’t like marijuana. It’s no more dangerous than booze, but it’s illegal. In fact, the prison system has tons of people who dealt or did pot. Some are even serving more time than rapists, pedos & murderers.

So white straight men are NOT outcasts. They just feel entitled to EVERYTHING.

And remember George Zimmerman...the man who got away with killing Trayvon Martin...self-identified as white even though his mom was Hispanic. Killing Trayvon was his way to join his (white, straight) dad’s tribe.

by Anonymousreply 74May 10, 2018 4:44 PM

Don't men know how to hire hookers anymore?

by Anonymousreply 75May 10, 2018 4:46 PM

R69, the devaluing of women.

by Anonymousreply 76May 10, 2018 4:53 PM

incel troll?

by Anonymousreply 77May 10, 2018 4:55 PM

Christ, imagine how bad it is in India and China where they outnumber women by millions.

by Anonymousreply 78May 10, 2018 5:06 PM

Prior to recent times, Western societies all tolerated prostitution as a way to let the young men without economic wherewithal to marry blow off steam. Legalize prostitution and let the incels have sex and some of the rage will dissipate.

by Anonymousreply 79May 10, 2018 5:08 PM

That wouldn’t solve it r79. They think they are entitled to sex with the most beautiful women who will be subservient virgins and they will not pay for it because they are ENTITLED to it.

by Anonymousreply 80May 10, 2018 5:15 PM

These dudes are fucking pedos!!! Pop your head out of your asses and start seeing what this really is. These guys don’t want sex with hot, adult women! They want sex with little girls.

by Anonymousreply 81May 10, 2018 5:22 PM

OMG @ one of the thread titles at the incel-forum:

'if you had an 8/10 female first cousin who was in love with you and wanted to fuck would you do it?'

by Anonymousreply 82May 10, 2018 5:35 PM

It is autism. Period. Not only does the brain damage that this generation carries inhibit their social skills, they actually are retards on some level, and probably comparable to serial killers of days before. There are VASTLY more of them, and we should be thankful that theyre shut-ins and not actual serial killer types who actively seek out victims in every population center close to them.

People keep saying "Eliot Rodger could get laid" because he's rich and actually cute. It's his AUTISM that's the problem. No "Stacy", no matter her "incentive" wants an autistic partner. No one wants an autistic partner. Not even other autists.

And some are pedophiles, yes, in a sense that they can only relate to children, and they are the least threatening human - so they begin to fantasize about them. Just like Dahmer was a necro, he explained it as not wanting to be judged, to be able to have sex without feelings of inadequacy etc. The pedo/incel/aspie community has many overlaps. Their brains are literally damaged, and we should be bringing back the word "retard" for this bc it absolutely describes it. These people are socially, developmentally, and intellectually retarded.

by Anonymousreply 83May 10, 2018 7:15 PM

[quote]Prior to recent times, Western societies all tolerated prostitution as a way to let the young men without economic wherewithal to marry blow off steam. Legalize prostitution and let the incels have sex and some of the rage will dissipate.

Uh, forgetting the other half of the equation here.

by Anonymousreply 84May 10, 2018 7:19 PM

R74 Yes, I literally said just that and that was my point.

They have everything, so when they notice black people, etc have their own little spaces and gatherings to talk about shared experiences or whatever, they stomp their feet and want to have something like that too. Incels are mostly white straight men ie the group of people who would be left on the outside looking in or laughing at something like black twitter (as opposed to laughing with).

Incels, gamers who insist that gaming and being a nerd is an identity, MRA, redpill, MGTOW, etc are all mostly white straight men and those are the identities they have chosen to identify with and gather as. The problem is they mostly gather because they are bitter fucks who want to put others down so they radicalize real easily.

by Anonymousreply 85May 10, 2018 9:44 PM

Where are their mothers?

by Anonymousreply 86May 10, 2018 11:03 PM

Do these incels have stank sleeves by chance? Just asking for a friend.

by Anonymousreply 87May 11, 2018 2:56 AM

R79, prostitutes are human beings and not a public convenience. Why foist these nasty losers upon them? If sex with a professional didn’t meet an incel guy’s delusionally entitled expectations (e.g., women must be supermodel-level beauties who have porn star sexual prowess yet cannot be older than age 25), their narcissistic rage and misogyny would only intensify.

by Anonymousreply 88May 11, 2018 2:58 AM

I wonder how many of these Incels have Ercetile Dysfunction Disorders? You can have ED pretty young, especially if you’re overweight, have diabetes, or psychosexual issues.

by Anonymousreply 89May 11, 2018 3:07 AM

Love this....especially starting around 4:30

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 90May 11, 2018 8:27 AM

[quote]These people are socially, developmentally, and intellectually retarded.

No, I think the word to describe them is "stunted." Some of them have decent brains and hold down professional jobs. They may not necessarily be articulate (though some undoubtedly are) but they are objectively of average intelligence or higher. It's the social part that's undeveloped; they exhibit extreme immaturity. They are the opposite of "self-actualized."

by Anonymousreply 91May 11, 2018 8:55 AM

When I was bored I used to read some of their forums. I think they're mostly average. The smart ones stick out.

by Anonymousreply 92May 11, 2018 9:08 AM

[quote]Stop giving them attention.

Kinda hard to do since they fix computers and shoot up schools.

[quote]These people are socially, developmentally, and intellectually retarded.

[quote]No, I think the word to describe them is "stunted." Some of them have decent brains and hold down professional jobs. They may not necessarily be articulate (though some undoubtedly are) but they are objectively of average intelligence or higher. It's the social part that's undeveloped; they exhibit extreme immaturity. They are the opposite of "self-actualized."

NAIL ON THE HEAD. Every person that I’ve ever met that falls into this category has all of the traits listed. Really smart, high earners because they spent their adolescence with their heads stuck up a hard drive, usually potheads and drunks--mean ones--because they have ZERO social skills and can only adequately communicate when inebriated, borderline racist but definitely misogynist at their core and completely void of tact.

The difference between the guys I’ve met and these school shooters is patience and actually putting in the work to meet women which is difficult even if you’re not fucked in the head. Call it generational but there does seem to be a sense of entitlement. Also having people like Trump as POTUS doesn’t really help.

They also think they’re smarter than everyone else so they don’t feel the need to "lower themselves" to develop any type of social bond with others--at least in person....and forget about a psychiatrist because they haven't met one smart enough to help them. It's fucking crazy.

by Anonymousreply 93May 11, 2018 9:52 AM

The person smearing autistic people in this thread is fucking evil. Go fuck yourself, you fucking slime.

by Anonymousreply 94May 11, 2018 10:08 AM

What happens when someone suggest they seek help/counseling/develop healthy hobbies etc? Does the whole forum attack the person making the suggestion?

Also, this made me think of a guy at work. On paper, you wouldn't think of him as "hot". He is bald and has a big nose. But when you talk to him, he just oozes charm. Easy smile, kind eyes, humorous. You can see how women would be attracted to him. Even though he is not conventionally handsome. That's what these jerks don't get.

by Anonymousreply 95May 11, 2018 12:01 PM

I think the mental illness that causes racism and misogyny is on the same spectrum that creates these wormy guys. Decent women smell it on them and stay away.

by Anonymousreply 96May 11, 2018 4:51 PM

I've already said that I think some of these guys are repressed closet cases, R47, and having repressed pedos among their numbers would explain a lot. Here's hoping they stay repressed!

The most important thing about them is that although they complain endlessly about not getting sex, they actually do everything in their power to avoid it. They disdain the idea of going to prostitutes, they refuse to hit on the sort of women who might have them, they want women they might have common interests with out of the workplace, etc. They're actually doing everything they can to avoid any contact with adult women! Sure, they all have a million reasons for being unhappy, including each other, but not frustrated heterosexuality.

by Anonymousreply 97May 11, 2018 5:46 PM

I wonder how much of it is down to them usually being avid gamers? Women in games are portrayed as long legged, huge boobed, tiny waisted glamazons with extraordinary sex appeal and submissive personality. That becomes their idea of what is their “rightful” mate. Social inadequates who never spend any time with real people have warped expectations.

by Anonymousreply 98May 11, 2018 10:29 PM

Video games and anime r98.

by Anonymousreply 99May 11, 2018 10:55 PM

This is a good piece from the SPLC that places "incels" into a larger context, with ties and roots to the alt-right.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 100May 11, 2018 11:10 PM

And yet everyone in this thread is ignoring the elephant in the room- women too can go years of*dry spells* without sex/relationships and there are such things as female autistics, and yet no equivalent movement Female Incels has developed, why is That? Because society inherently is chauvanistic and no woman would be presumptuous enough to assume it would be her *right* to a sexual relationship with any gender individual. Egads, blind dolts.

by Anonymousreply 101May 11, 2018 11:11 PM

Also, R101, female celibates have better coping mechanisms - friends, family, cats, chocolate, "Outlander", vibrators, etc. They find ways to have emotional connections and social lives without sex.

And IMHO it's because if women don't get what they want from men, they tend to think it's because they aren't pretty enough, or cool enough, or good enough at making their man happy... which is exactly what these Incel crazies ought to be thinking but don't.

by Anonymousreply 102May 11, 2018 11:22 PM

Well I agree with r101. It's how men and women are socialised from birth that's also a root of the problem.

by Anonymousreply 103May 11, 2018 11:25 PM

The fuck is your problem R101? There is no elephant in the room here. This isn’t a battle of genders. Women have better-coping skills. PERIOD. They don’t unleash their “Fury of self-pity” in a hail of bullets and pipe bombs. They just become porn stars or hookers. Women take their self-pity out on themselves or their children...not society.

And if there is a female equivalent of Incels--which I doubt--they’re a minority.

What we DON’T need are self-indulgent wack jobs to start more of these groups simply to fill in a missing category because they feel marginalized. It’s not a club for cool people. You should be relieved that women aren’t really included in this bullshit.

by Anonymousreply 104May 12, 2018 9:40 AM

"Incels" are nothing new. It's just that Western culture became less misogynistic and incel behavior was slowly deemed unacceptable. Incels never entirely went away as their reemergence on social media has shown.

But incels still continue to thrive in traditional, male-centered cultures. In these cultures, incel behavior is deeply enshrined and considered normal or at least it was until recently.

BBC.com:

A teenage girl in India has been raped and burned alive by her attacker - the third instance of such an attack in the same week.

The 16-year-old girl died after being soaked in fuel and set on fire at her home in the Sagar district of Madhya Pradesh.

Police said she was killed after telling her attacker she would inform her family about the rape.

Two other similar attacks, one fatal, took place in Jharkhand this week.

A 17-year-old girl remains in critical condition after being set on fire by a suspect who allegedly said he wanted to marry the victim, but had been rejected.

The earlier case involved a 16-year-old who was burned alive after her parents complained to village elders about her rape. The accused had been ordered to do sit-ups and pay a fine as punishment, prompting them to beat the girl's parents and kill her.

In the most recent attack, the victim was at home alone in Jujharpur village when she was attacked.

by Anonymousreply 105May 12, 2018 1:12 PM

Link to BBC article at R105.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 106May 12, 2018 1:13 PM

[quote]These people are socially, developmentally, and intellectually retarded.

I hate to be a literalist, but people who have the capacity to contemplate their own position in life and an interest in analyzing the reasons for their dissatisfaction, and who feel the need to connect with like-minded people cannot be considered retarded. It's too easy to dismiss them as such.

by Anonymousreply 107May 12, 2018 2:01 PM

To be very literal r107 retarded means developmentally stunted or slowed in some way so having the capacity to contemplate or analyze doesn’t preclude them from being retarded in that way, they could have that ability but in comparison to others of similar age they are retarded.

by Anonymousreply 108May 12, 2018 3:47 PM

[quote]Would love to see the Venn diagram between incels and Republican men. Basically just two overlapping circles, I’m guessing.

More likely Libertarians.

by Anonymousreply 109May 12, 2018 5:00 PM

Thank you r108, that is exactly what I meant. It's a shame that the word retarded has become so stigmatized bc it is still a descriptive term, medical and otherwise. Just because they are able to commiserate with their fellows online about their imagined and self-constructed woes deosn't mean they arent retarded. Also if you really study these forums there is A LOT of lamenting about autism - it is on the higher end of the spectrum, but part of this club(remember the 4 chan robot thing? All autistic incels, including Eliot Rodger).

No one is dragging autism(found the Aspie?). The problem is that these young men are not getting ANY help for their condition, beyond certain meds that surely exacerbate the problem in the long term(the adderall/risperdal cocktail for one). And while some of the sex disparity in this debate is down to women being raised differently w different coping mechanisms, it's not all that. The medical fact is that there are (exponentially, in fact)more autistic men. This is another "little known fact", I guess, since the entire autism thing is still being downplayed in the both the media and academia. The western world is sick, no one wants to examine the root cause. So we have these mysterious plagues of unexplained violence and depravity, whose enormity IS a historical first.

by Anonymousreply 110May 12, 2018 5:19 PM

R110 how does your autism theory explain the Indian men at R105? You know, the ones setting teenage girls on fire because they won't marry them. Guess not just the Western world is sick.

by Anonymousreply 111May 12, 2018 5:22 PM

The local gov facilitated that by letting her rapist go free. Then they torched her bc she snitched. They didnt rally on 4chan, and its an age old punishment in the culture. Has nothing to do w autism. Why not just admit that you have no clue about the "incel"community?

by Anonymousreply 112May 12, 2018 5:34 PM

[quote]The medical fact is that there are (exponentially, in fact)more autistic men. This is another "little known fact", I guess

It's not a "little known fact" to anyone who works with autistic people or spends time with the special education population. We're well aware that most of our clients are male.

What does seem to be a little known fact on DL is that autistic and "Aspie" are not automatically interchangable with violent sociopathy or other personality disorders. Unfortunately, autism has become a catch-all term to describe any social awkwardness or self-absorption. Most adults with autism do not want human contact enough to rape anyone for it.

by Anonymousreply 113May 12, 2018 5:35 PM

R112, incel behavior would be going on in the Western world too if their governments hadn't stopped facilitating it. It's not "new" behavior. It's a behavior as old as time itself. It occurs when men have absolute power.

by Anonymousreply 114May 12, 2018 5:38 PM

Why don't Islamic terrorists get the same amount of empathy from the media as these guys?

I actually find many of their causes - the unprovoked war on Iraq, the colonial occupation of Palestine - more sympathetic than the whines that "I'm 20 year old virgin!!!"

by Anonymousreply 115May 12, 2018 5:51 PM

Well if we're going to get all DSM about these guys, I'd be willing to bet that only a minority are high-functioning autistics. The rest include a sprinkling of the sort of personality disorders that feature zero empathy, anxiety disorders that aren't getting treated, repressed gays, pedos, and some socially awkward nerds who would be perfectly normal and functional if they put some work into fixing themselves.

The last make me sad, because the toxic incel community is the worst thing possible for them, and is going to prevent them from getting their lives together.

by Anonymousreply 116May 12, 2018 10:59 PM

The Star Wars fandom is full of these sorts of guys. Horrible, entitled, emotionally retarded people, very "Dark Side" personalities, I think they only like it because Luke is about the only male virgin in pop culture and they identify with him.

The reason I brought them up is because they're such perfect examples of "emotional retardation", a term that's being discussed above.

Emotions are a huge part if the human experience, whether we are aware of the fact or not they influence all our decisions and make many of our decisions for us, and form our preferences. These fantard guys are completely and utterly unaware of their feeling and can't or won't analyze them, if you ask them "Well why do you like Luke and not Poe?" they can't answer the question or bring up some nitpicky script point,or they get angry because the question is outside their comfort zone. These guys all think they're hugely intelligent, but when it comes to understanding the basic workings of their own brains they're fucking idiots, and of course someone who doesn't understand how their own mind functions isn't going to undersrand how other people's works. They have such huge gaps in their mental functioning that it should count as a kind of retardation.

by Anonymousreply 117May 13, 2018 4:35 AM

[quote][R110] how does your autism theory explain the Indian men at [R105]? You know, the ones setting teenage girls on fire because they won't marry them. Guess not just the Western world is sick.

It doesn’t. That’s a result of religious fanaticism with a little bit of obsession, mixed with some entitlement and a huge ego. EVERY theory is not applicable to every situation. You have to make room for variables.

by Anonymousreply 118May 13, 2018 8:54 AM
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