Southern married women addressed as or referred to with "Miss" before their names

We always referred to my school teachers with 'miss' even if they were married (and they all were). The nurses at the hospital where my mother was called her "miss julie" and even had a quilt embroidered with those words. It is a southern thing.

Miss Lindsey

It's a respect thing. You don't want to call a person older than you by their first name unless it's followed by Mr/M.

r3, then do you do it for all people, no matter their class, who are older than you?

Continuing. . .

I work in (California) schools, and I have students refer to non-teachers as Miss and Mr. I don't like when kids call adults by their first name.

Miss Thing here...

Miss Dunaway

I am a 32 year old Welsh woman and preferred to be called Miss Cathy. It is a “global” thing!

Calling someone Miss or Mr. in front of first names is just one of those southern customs we all have been taught forever. When it started, I don't know. But I know it predates the Civil War. It's a simple show of respect to an older person.

I’m from New England, but I will still address an older woman as “Miss” in certain situations. For instance, there’s an elderly black cashier at my supermarket whose name tag reads “Linda”. She’s been there forever, and I’ll say “Good morning, Miss Linda! How are you today?” It just doesn’t feel respectful to call her just “Linda”.

A lot of you aren't getting it. The honorific for married women is "Mrs.," not "Miss." Why do southern people continue to refer to married women as Miss? That's what OP is asking.

I thought it was a Black thing? It has always seemed to me that when Black women reach a "certain age" they acquire the honorific "Miss." Applies to men as well I suppose, since when I was employed AA's, many of whom were half my age, usually preceded my first name with "Mister." Hasn't it always been a title of respect, since not everyone is greeted or referred to in this manner? The title evokes an air of gentility, manners, deference and days gone by. I heartily approve of it, if it is sincerely meant.

I'm also a Southerner, and until I turned 13 relatives and family friends sent me cards and letters addressed to "Master So-and-so." Oddly enough, once I turned 13 no one started referring to me as "Mister." Indeed, I'm middle-aged and have rarely been referred to as "Mr. Surname." I rather resent that lack of respect, and I really bristle when people who don't know me presume to call me by my first name.

It’s definitely a Southern thing - when I moved to Charleston, SC I noticed (and adopted) it right away. It’s a very pleasant and friendly way to greet people who you see often but aren’t friends with - like service people or neighbors. I like when children say it - their parents are raising them well.

Miss Mona's no-no rules.

[quote] I rather resent that lack of respect, and I really bristle when people who don't know me presume to call me by my first name.

I will call you "Miss Mary"!

R11, I think it’s just easier.

I have kids in public school here in Manhattan. They call teachers “Mr.” or “Miss”, even if the teacher is married. I prefer to pronounce it as “Ms.” (mizz), because I was raised by a 70s feminist. One of their schools did away with it, and all teachers and the principal are called by their first names.

There IS one who goes by the honorific “Madame”. She’s not the French teacher. The Spanish teacher uses “Señor”. The kids love it.

Can't we just bring back Romper Room?

Just...say...Miss!

What about addressing old time stars this way - Miss Joan Crawford for example. She was a used up old bag and they still introduced her that way. It isn't just an American thing, because that old bat Dorothy Squires was always introduced this way - "Ladies and Gentlemen, MISS Dorothy Squires"

I love the anecdote Anita O'Day wrote about in her memoir. Peggy Lee was performing in one of the big Vegas rooms with "MISS PEGGY LEE" on the large marquee. Anita was performing in a tiny club right across the street. She had her marquee read "DON'T Miss Anita O'Day".

[Quote]I thought it was a Black thing?

It's both a Black and Southern thing, r12. Keep in mind that most African Americans living outside of The South descend from those Blacks who migrated from there decades ago, who brought many of their customs with them. This influence continues today through speech patterns, food recipes, music preferences, and religious beliefs.

When I address an older married woman, I usually use Ms. unless she's elderly then I use Mrs. And if a woman is single, I refer to her as Miss unless she's elderly then I use a first name basis.

The ladies on Romper Room were referred to as Miss + first name. The one I remember from the New York version was Miss Louise.

Yeah, I think it's a Southern thing and a black thing.

I called married adult women Mrs. So and So. I wouldn't have dared to call them by their first name, but I only called them Miss or Ms. if it was appropriate to do so.

Southerners and black people will often refer to me as Mr. (my first name) instead of Mr. (my last name).

[quote]Why do southern people continue to refer to married women as Miss? That's what OP is asking.

It reminds the haggard and unhappy wives that at one time in their life, they were free. Now shackled by the chains of matrimony.

There’s very little difference in the pronunciation between Miss, Mrs., and Ms., especially when speaking quickly. I’m sure I couldn’t tell which word was being used when in front of a first name.

The use of an honorific in front of a first name is common in many European cultures. In Spanish they use Don and Doña, as in Don Julio tequila.

R4, yes, anyone who is older than you gets "Miss" or "Mister" and "ma'am" or "sir". Rich, poor, doesn't matter.

[quote][R4], yes, anyone who is older than you gets "Miss" or "Mister" and "ma'am" or "sir". Rich, poor, doesn't matter.

"Ma'am" and "sir" I have no problem with. But outside of the South, "Miss" or "Mister" before a first name sounds ridiculous and anachronistic and servile--it would make me sound like Pork addressing Scarlett O'Hara's mother as "Miss Ellen." It's just not done in the North.

....

Peggy Lee had it written into her contract that she was always to be referred to as MISS Peggy Lee.

Oh, I agree, R29. Anywhere else it would sound ridiculous. I actually think it sounds ridiculous down here, but like a lot of harmless stuff, it's easier to just go with the flow.

R11, if you call a married woman by her last name, it is Mrs. Smith. If you want to address her less formally but not too informally or familiar, it is Miss Mary. Simply Mary would be too familiar so you throw a Miss in front of it. If she is unmarried you call her Miss or Ms. Smith to be formal, and Miss Mary to be less formal.

Thanks for the blast from the past, R13! I also remember getting letters and cards addressed to me as “Master John Smith”. Gosh! Haven’t thought of that in years! Can’t remember when I graduated from “Master” to “Mr.” - maybe once I was confirmed?

I’m not a Southerner - NYC born and bred - but I’ve been called “Mr First Name” often, both in work settings and social/other settings. Admittedly when it’s been in a work setting, it’s usually by African Americans. Having said that, when I lived in Europe, I heard it there regularly enough.

The only “Miss First Name” I remember from my youth were three elderly sisters collectively known as “the Healy sisters” or “the Healy girls”. Two were widows, one was a maiden lady but they all lived in the family house. Everyone called them “Miss First Name” I guess to differentiate one from the other.

It’s a compromise between the formality of “Mrs. (Married Name),” which is stuffy and calls attention to the age or social station of the person being addressed, and the too-intimate use of just first names. “Miss” as applied to married women is likely just a contraction, but also just as likely a practicial acknowledgement that “Mrs.” wouldn’t be used in conjunction with a first name. It is also likely an early, pragmatic attempt to replace Mrs/Miss with a universal appelation like “Ms.,” which it also obviously evokes. These questions aren’t present when men are addressed as “Mr. (First Name),” a practice which likelt started first and influenced the female form, which needed an all-purpose title like “Mr.” for it to work properly with strangers and acquaintances.

It’s a compromise between southern formality and folksy realness, in other words. Not that hard to suss out if you think about it. I hate southerners but I love when black folks do this.

I was taught that an older woman is to be addressed as Ma'am, not miss. A couple of times I slipped when younger, and was firmly corrected by the woman in question.

Today I am a Ma'am!

I just use Missy or Toots. For example, "Listen up, Missy." or "Move it, Toots."

I see nothing wrong with it.

r24, see r18

I think it's stupid (or maybe it just reflects the ignorance of younger people) when I see closed-captioning of older movies and TV shows wherein someone who is referred to as "Miss" is shown on the captions as "Ms.," a word that didn't even exist before the late '60s.

[quote] wherein someone who is referred to as "Miss" is shown on the captions as "Ms.," a word that didn't even exist before the late '60s.

That's not true at all. "Ms." existed long before the feminist use of it was started in the 1970s:

[quote] Like "Miss" and "Mrs.", the term "Ms." has its origins in the female English title once used for all women, "Mistress". It has its origin in the 17th century and was revived into mainstream usage in the 20th century.

[quote] "Ms." began to be used as early as the 17th century, along with "Miss" and "Mrs.", as a title derived from the then formal "Mistress", which, like Mister, did not originally indicate marital status. "Ms.", however, fell into disuse in favor of the other two titles and was not revived until the 20th century.

For, Miss Ellie it was a class thing, because she was the rancher's daughter(old money) who married a wildcatting self-made oil-man(Nouveau Riche), to save South Fork during the depression, remember even Jock called her Miss Ellie, because they came from two different worlds. Also, when a married woman, especially in previous decades, was called Miss (first name), it could signify that she had earned respect outside of her marriage, professionally, charitably, etc... If you ever do any research that involves newspaper archives you will see that it was quite common, especially on society pages, to refer to a woman by her husband's name not her own, i.e. Mrs. Jock Ewing, not Mrs. Ellie Ewing, on up until the 1980's in some papers, but there was usually a few in the Junior League, etc... that would be called Miss (firstname) because they had earned it, by being adept fund raisers, or a longterm Chairwoman, etc...

"Miss" is a 17th century honorific bestowed upon a "mistress," a title given to the lady of the house, especially one who was the head of a household with servants. Obviously, this honoric became prevalent in the American South and transcended its original meaning to include any genteel lady of the South, regardless of household hierarchy.

mistress - from Middle English [italic]maistress[/italic], from Anglo-French [italic]mestresse[/italic], feminine form of "master."

My friend from Augusta GA would call young girls ma’am and older women/girls but had his kids call me miss (first name here)