Jerome Robbins - Bob Fosse - Michael Bennett - Who was the BIGGEST Scumbag?

Robbins is the one who was positively yelling at the whole company of "Fiddler on the Roof" and no one said a thing as he was approaching the edge of the orchestra pit and fell into it. Supposed to have been very nasty.

Jerome Robbins & Bob Fosse are tied in the poll!

Fosse once declined to cast the best singer/dancer at an audition because he didn't like the way she spoke to the pianist.

That was WEST SIDE STORY, R1.

Look, they were all egomaniacs, but Robbins testified before the Committee For Un-American Activities in the early 50's to save his career and keep from being outed, so he wins.

Fosse fucked around constantly and played the casting couch with dancers, so he's a garden variety douche.

Bennett was so screwed up about being gay that he married Donna McKechnie.

All that said, they were all extraordinarily talented, and Robbins was really a genius. Being a great talent and a great person rarely go hand in hand.

Now Michael Bennett & Bob Fosse are tried in the poll, with Jerome Robbins out in front

That doesn't sound like Bennett didn't anything or nasty towards anyone though. It just sounds like he was unsure of himself, and the McKechnie was willing to marry him.

I had heard the Fosse was very nice to people at auditions, and it's always a good idea to be nice to the pianist, as you are being watched from the second you enter the audition room to the time you leave the premises. But yeah, he fucked around a lot.

Robbins and Arthur Laurents -- man, they must have made life miserable for people when they worked together.

correction: "That didn't sound like Bennett did anything nasty", etc.

R6 you should read up on the history of A Chorus Line as he back-stabbed so many people

Well, I know that a lot of folks were cheated out of residuals from "A Chorus Line" whose stories were featured and who were at the taped sessions. I don't know if that was at Bennett's insistence or some lawyer, but apparently they were given some piece of paper they were sort of encouraged to sign right away, and that signed away their rights. Not all of them signed, but most did.

anyone else?

Chita Rivera replaced Gwen Verdon's spirit gum with krazy glue!

R1, R3, it was Peter Pan.

Robbins ruined lives and careers by naming names when forced to testify before HUAC, to save his own commie neck.

^ I meant R1 and r4.

As proved, Robbins owns this thread, the car wash cunt

I thought Robbins was also an angry, unpleasant man on a personal level as well. He was also screwed up about his sexuality--proposed to Tanaquil LeClercq, who married George Balanchine instead.

I suppose Fosse gets credit for admitting he was a slime ball. He also cast black dancers way before that was standard and wasn't homophobic. He seems to have had long-term working relationships with a lot of people. Definitely a mixed bag.

I worked w Robbins. A genius, brilliant man. Difficult and cruel. But...worth it.

The day Michael Bennett FIRED Tony Winner Elizabeth Seal in favor of his wife Donna McKechnie

On Wednesday 12 January Mr Bennett returned to take the cast through the last days of rehearsals. They met that morning to do a technical run through. After lunch the cast went back to the rehearsal room not knowing that Bennett had decided Elizabeth Seal was out. While Seal was rehearsing, her husband and agent were informed. As far as Seal is concerned she is to have a separate rehearsal with the actor playing the show’s director. There was no rehearsal – she was shown to dressing room No 10 where Bennett, White and a few others were waiting for her. Bennett spoke: ‘I’m going to let you go’. Seal did not understand the euphemism and asked: ‘Excuse me?’ Bennett: ‘I’m going to let you go. I’ve made a mistake in the casting. There just isn’t the right chemistry between you and Jean Pierre (the actor playing the director in the show). The nature of the play is changing.’

Elizabeth’s Seal’s reaction was: ‘It would be better if you hadn’t given me the job at all’.

Enter Donna McKechnie, Mrs Bennett for all of six weeks.

Bennett went to British Equity to get permission to let her play Cassie, the role she introduced, while a home-grown actress could be found. Equity agreed on 18January reversing their original ruling banning her. They also made the statement saying they deplored the circumstances in which Miss Seal was dismissed and would give her full backing in any claim she made for damages (the damages were never disclosed). Critics were not to be invited to re-review the show until McKechnie left.

That was not the end of the story. Actors throughout the West End and the Fringe were upset by Equity’s reversal and planned protests. On the 20th Equity again reviewed the situation, this time with the full 60 strong council – not the 15 strong executive committee which had made the ruling. They brought back the ban on Donna McKenchnie.

[quote] I worked w Robbins. A genius, brilliant man. Difficult and cruel. But...worth it.

Were you in the chorus? or did originate roles on Broadway?

Neither...behind the scenes creative staff type...

Michael Bennett had no issue with bringing actors to tears, and saying "now that's the performance I want." It has been said that when stage managers of ACL thought the show was getting sloppy, they would spray Michael's cologne in the wings, so the cast would think he was watching, and they would clean up their act.

The book ON THE LINE made out Michael Bennett to be a mean, homophobic man who was deliberately cruel to the people who worked for him. I am ashamed to admit it, but I felt an ugly pleasure in reading how he died of AIDS. Getting "the gay disease" seemed like perfect justice for such a nasty closet case.

But I recognize his genius and I regret my own malice toward him.

There was another bio, perhaps the Kevin Kelly one, that claimed that he was trying to impregnate Sabine Cassel when he knew he had AIDS...

[quote] Neither...behind the scenes creative staff type...

Any good gossip or stories you want to tell us about some of the show you worked on?

It may surprise some that Robbins had a wickedly good sense of humor.

How was Robbins cruel and why was it worth it R19? He did do some beautiful choreography. I've often wondered if he was a bit easier to work with at NYCB, which seems like it would be a lower-pressured situation than getting a show up on Broadway.

With talent like that, give me scumbag every time.

Lainie Kazan on how Michael Bennett stabbed her in the back during "Seesaw"

“He fired 26 people at intermission one night and I was among them. It was devastation. It was the cruelest act. And he never came to see me, he wouldn’t have a meeting with me. It was probably the lowest point of my life and they replaced me with one of my best friends, Michele Lee (pictured with Lainie above). It was beyond awkward. She would be rehearsing all day in the theater then I would go on at night. They said to me, ‘You can be a real mensch and stay with the show or you can leave but we’re going to replace you.” My name was above the title: ‘Lanie Kazan in Seasaw’ and I think he wanted it to be ‘Michael Bennett Presents Seasaw.’ It was my comeback and it was very painful. I didn’t recuperated very well. I stayed in New York, I lost my home, my husband and I separated. It was the worst time of my life – the worst.”

Damn, Bob and the casting couch are looking better and better.

Terrible about Lainie

Where was Mary Martin and her husband when the above events took place during Peter Pan? They invested in the musical.

Back in their prime, who would have won in a fist fight between Ann Reinking and Donna McKechnie?

Donna McKechnie - She is tough

She was intimidated by Ethel Merman though.

Sondheim still says mean shit about Jerry Robbins. You can hear the edge of anger and dislike in his voice, even at this remove. Robbins must have been a real piece of work.

Reinking was an athlete, short torso, long legs. She would have won easily. Vicki Frederick showed she could kick any ass.

BTW, R21, I could not get over that passage in the Bennett bio about how he tried to conceive with Sabine even though he knew he had AIDS and she didn't.

Fosse was beloved. He doesn't belong on this list.

Sondheim felt bullied by Robbins during Gypsy; Robbins wanted "Little Lamb" out and was vicious about it.

I think it was Jule Styne who won regarding "Little Lamb"; I think he said if the song was taken out, he was withdrawing his entire score. Any stories of how Robbins was with Barbra during "Funny Girl"? She was known for not taking any shit from others.

Correct, r37, but Sondheim felt wounded by it. Or maybe his beef was something altogether different. I don't think anybody liked jerry.

Gypsy ran well over three hours at early previews and the creatives knew they had to make substantial cuts. They argued bitterly over it. As mentioned above, Robbins wanted to cut Little Lamb but Styne wasn't having it because he was sleeping with Sandra Church, the Louise. Meanwhile, Laurents wanted to cut the vaudeville sequences in half or less and Robbins wasn't having that. Etc., etc., etc. Mama's Talkin' Soft was about the first thing to go because it didn't advance the plot and the two little girls were terrified of the high platform on which they stood to sing it.

R35, Jill Cook doesn't think of Fosse as beloved.

trying to imagine why anybody would sleep with jule styne. failing.

For the title role in his latest Broadway show, r41?

not even.

Hell, as much as I adore GYPSY and think it's the best musical ever written, it could still stand a few cuts. As bland as Little Lamb is, I've seen great actresses do wonders with it and it helps the audience get to know Louise (who's already painfully underdeveloped as is). How about cutting Mr. Goldstone? The punchline is the first line of the song anyway. Trimming a few of the vaudeville numbers could help, too. And I'm glad they've recently gotten rid of Small World (reprise). Why the hell would Rose stop and take the time to sing a ballad when she's been so dead set on getting Louise ready for her first strip?

Debbie Reynolds wrote in her book that Fosse didn't like to wear underwear under his dance tights and enjoyed rubbing his cock against unsuspecting females . . . including Debbie.

You're not the first to suggest cutting Mr. Goldstone, r44.

Trivia: I think it's the one number in the film that wasn't dubbed for Roz, apart from a few bits of Rose's Turn.

Mr. Goldstone is kinda blah. I don't think Sondheim likes it either. I wonder why it hasn't been cut. They've cut the reprise of Small World from at least the last 2 major productions with Patti and Imelda and, to me, it works better without it and keeps Rose appropriately manic in that scene.

All Fosse bios talk about him physically assaulting the female dancers. Vicki Frederick said he would try to have sex with all the girls in the chorus and would often call them in the middle of the night saying that they wouldn't have a job if they didn't come to his hotel room. One said he exposed himself to her when she was 15.

And yet they still kept dancing for him? How....curious!

And adored him. Might be hard to imagine in this bullshit MeToo day and age but sexual advances aren't always unwelcome sexual advances. People just assume every female is a nun who says "No!" as she clutches her pearls under the habit.

Dancers begged to work with him, including/especially females.

I'm guessing that Fosse's self-depiction in All that Jazz probably wasn't that far off as far as the womanizing thing--he used the casting couch and the couchees were willing. Not every dancer was a casting couch hire. He was professional in rehearsal and a mess outside of it.

Who are these people?

r49 Because it was a JOB, Motherfucker. Dancing on Broadway is not like working at Safeway. There are maybe 20 jobs a season for female dancers.

Oh, dear. I see irony is wasted on you, r53, even though my tone was self-evident. And you don't have to lecture me on Broadway, Miss Moffat, I've toiled in its vineyards my whole life long.

Jerome seems the least likeable of the three, but also the most fuckable.

Reading about all the horrible things Michael Bennett did.... and he is running THIRD in this poll?

It would be a real race if Arthur Laurents were in running, neck and neck with Robbins!

Some Jerome Robbins and Bob Fosse together in one mic flipping tight pants dead gay backup dancer mashup. Chita was homely with short legs no? But she does all those complex isolations and glorious balletic turns at almost 50 years old. It's the cheat Vegas version of their choreography but no less impressive. She's a STAR.

That is rather Fab, r58, thanks! The true measure of a star isn't their ability to hold the audience with spectacular stunts, but to captivate with just a swing of the hips or a toss of the head. Chita had it!

And could her backup dancers be any gayer?

George Balanchine = another crazy closeted gay piece of work.

Streisand worshiper R37, Babs had to take shit at that time because she wasn't a big enough star not to. She and Robbins were like peas in a pod - which pissed off a lot of the company. He re-worked the failing out of town Funny Girl to showcase her more than it had originally, so she was plenty happy with him.

Chita had .....snap.

R60 Well, I heard that Barbra cursed out someone during the time of "Funny Girl" - was it Ray Stark (after she had a contract with him)?

She wasn't happy with Garson Kanin (director pre-Robbins), R62, but expressed her displease to others, not to directly to him.

I can't seriously believe you would think for a millisecond that 21 year old Streisand "cursed out" Jerome Robbins.

I think it was legendary film director William Wyler whom Barbra cussed out while making the film. They fought often. He said he'd forgiven her because it was the first film she'd ever directed.

So many of you know for a fact so many contradictory things about shows and events that you learned only through rumor and innuendo. How do you do it?

Where's Vivian Vance?

R60--Balanchine was definitely a piece of work, but closeted? He was notorious for falling in love and marrying his ballerinas. That said, he founded NYCB with Lincoln Kerstein, who was married, but pretty openly gay. And Robbins came on board, of course.

But what's the story here?

R67, and the ballerinas were aware of that and hoped he would fall in love with them and create works for them. Gelsey Kirkland said that he had such an obsession with Suzanne Farrell that all the girls tried to look like her. Kirkland noted that Farrell had an overbite so she went to a dentist and tried to get buck teeth When he refused, she injected silicone into her lips to get the effect.

So we have Jerome Robbins Broadway, we have Fosse

When will they do a Broadway musical on the work of Michael Bennett

Let's get Swoosie into that doing her Scandal numbers, r69!

R65 It's worked for me for decades.

I'd like to see one based on the really entertaining ones by Onna White. Her choreography in the film of "The Music Man" for example is just wonderful. There could also be retrospectives of Michael Kidd, Gower Champion and Tommy Tune as well.

I just tried to find some Onna White number we haven't seen a hundred times and ran across this:

Go to 22:15

R70, if there ever was a Bennett retrospective, "Scandal" will never be represented. I know a few people associated with it and all said that his work just didn't have it. The show was almost certainly going to be a flop and it had nothing to do with the "controversial" subject matter. It just wasn't very good and that's also why no one has tried to remount it. It's Road Show 2.

Was Gower Champion a nice guy?

His choreography for Joyful Noise and Subways are for Sleeping should be preserved somewhere

R75, Fuck, yeah!

Producer Leland Hayward convinced Mary Martin & Ethel Merman to appear on TV's first major special: 1953 Ford 50th Anniversary Show broadcast on NBC and CBS. The special included many other famous people, but is remembered mostly for the 12-minute Martin-Merman duet, which included parts of dozens of songs

Robbins worked with the two ladies in shaping the duet.

it's annoying that he treated mostly everyone badly, but not critic-proof stars

R78, Ethel CHOSE that dress?

R73 Thanks for that. Interesting, right at the end of that number about 30:45, Gwen Verdon talks about the honor of being a gypsy, which she defines and claims to be proud. Shhh, don't tell Equity.

R58, what exactly do you mean when you refer to her "isolations"?

I have an idea it's the way she is able to articulate her movements so clearly, but I'm not a dancer, I'm only a working actress.

[quote][R58], what exactly do you mean when you refer to her "isolations"?

Let Chita explain it: from A DANCER'S LIFE. The Fosse segment stars at 4:10:

WEST WIDE STORY choreography is really dated, it has not aged well. Fresh blood, please.

I wasn't born for at least 20 years after West Side Story was first staged. This choreography will never be dated, not when it's danced this well. A great dancer brings her own energy and style to the most familiar pieces. Debbie Allen spiced and blazed her way through America.

Loved both clips from r82 and r84. I knew all about Fosse but I feel like I’m getting a real education about the rest!

You all know that Robbins' assistant Peter Gennaro choreographed (uncredited!) all of the Sharks' dances including America, don't you? And he was a beloved ex-gypsy turned choreographer who came into his own in the 1960s.

Peter Gennaro loves a parade....

R67, Balanchine obsession and relationship with Suzanne Farrell was CHASTE. Is that a clue?

R64, you're beyond help.

Thanks, r73, you made my day. Really.

Totally my pleasure, r89!

R88, Balanchine wanted to fuck Farrell and marry her, like he'd married all the other ballerinas who were objects of his obsession. She refused and married someone else, even though that meant leaving the NYCB for years. She insisted on a chaste professional relationship, even if she had to make sacrifices to get it.

Okay, I suppose harassing a woman isn't absolute proof of heterosexuality, even though it's generally a good indicator. Maybe Balanchine married all these ballerinas and never touched them, he just wanted to own his muses personally as well as professionally. But if that was the case, who was he fucking? If he'd been gay in NYC in the mid-20th century, some of our eldergays would know about it.

Jack Cole was another great choreographer who was abusive to his dancers, male and female. He famously said: "Sometimes you have to kiss them, sometimes you have to slap them."

He believed the "person" had to be broken so the "dancer" would emerge.

A LOT of Fosse is swiped from Cole (including Coles assistant Gwen Verdon).

Jack Cole? Ya want some Jack Cole?

If you can't tell Balanchine was gay, turn in your card.

Gwen would teach Betty the Cole routines and Betty loved her.

R59, only one of the two backup dancers in that Chita Kennedy Center clip was gay.

R96, that wasn't Kennedy Center, that was for a PBS special called "Broadway Sings" which I believe was taped in Orange County. I think the two backup dancers were Frank Mastrocola (married to Anita Ehler) and Leland Schwantes who played Autumn in All that Jazz and he's straight as well.

Michael Bennett's "Clog Dance" from "A Joyful Noise"

R97, I believe that clip is from BROADWAY PLAYS WASHINGTON at the Kennedy Center. That's not sweet Frank Mastrocola with Leland Schwantes; it's the late Frank DeSal.

One of my mom's life-long best friends was part of Robbins' company, and danced in both West Side on B'way and the movie. As did her husband,.She has dementia now, otherwise I would ask hereabout Jerome. Actually I always felt awkward bringing up WSS when I was around her. People like staying in the present; who wants to bring up something from that long ago?

Theatre queens, r100.

Never look back......

R94, I'll give you the photo, but everything I've ever heard or read about Balanchine shows a man who was obsessed with women--he kept falling in love with and either marrying or having affairs with his ballerinas. Farrell was the big exception because she said "no." He was furious when she married and fired her husband. I believe Farrell quit and she was out for six years dancing crap in Europe.

Balanchine treated NYCB like his personal seraglio--he was even hitting up on women on his deathbed. If you've got something that shows another side, I'm listening, but, otherwise, Balanchine was a dirty old (straight) man.

R99, you could definitely be right. The other PBS special was also called "That's Singing" and was released as a VHS recording. It also had Glynis Johns doing "Send in the Clowns" and Donna Mckechnie doing "Charlie's Place" from Over Here. Here is Chita doing the Shriners Dance.

Yes, R104, that program where Chita did the Shriner's Ballet was done in California, the other one was in D.C. Frank DeSal was with Chita in both.

Sometimes folks with dementia can actually become lucid talking about the past. Playing music they used to listen to can also bring them back memories and have them talking.

The gay dancers are dead behind Chita. RIP.

I don't recognize all of them but at least a couple of them are still alive.

In The Shriners Dance recreation, the dancers are members of the American Dance Machine. With the exception of Gail Benedict, who got a special credit for the Gwen Verdon part in Can-Can, none of them appear to have been chorus names on Broadway.

R109, It looks like Lars Rosager and Frank DeSal are in that Shriner's Ballet and they were both chorus dancers on Broadway.

Always loved this number....

r111: Hermes Pan!

Jerome Robbins was working on GYPSY on the road. Sondheim & Styne finished what they knew was a great first act closer....they rushed up to Philly to play/sing it for Robbins.

He listened and said...."No....no doesn't work. The song doesn't make any sense."

Styne said: "It's a great lyric.....she is going to make things happen her way.....everything is coming up roses...."

Robbins: "I tell you it doesn't make any sense.....everything is coming up Rose's what?"

But finish the anecdote. Sondheim said if anyone called them on it, they'd change it. No one did.

Michael Bennett also choreographed for Joey Heatherton. Joey could do the best kicks in the business.

R115, the kicks are good, but the clip just reminds me that I've never been all that taken by Bennett's choreography--I find both Robbins and Fosse more striking. I remember when I first saw "Music and the Mirror"--and it just seemed to be poses with the occasional kick. Just has this generic quality to it--anyone else think this? (Or violently disagree?)

Thank R114 - I hadn't heard the finish.....

Lord R114, I'VE HEARD MICHAEL BENNETT WAS TRASH, SO YOU GONE PROVE IT. A Chorus Line is the worst longest running show ever. I would rather watch Phantom of The Opera 3,000 times! Who the fuck was that stumpy gymnast Joey Heatheringon? Where do you see développé? Honestly who did she fuck to get on this thread? I don't know her. Dream girls was a mess as far as choreography was concerned too. Some people aren't dancers or never fuck them. My boyfriend is a pretty well known dancer and he's sweet and kind to others. Bennett was a populist showman I guess, with bad shows. At the ballet is even a bad song....and dance. Streisand recorded it in her eighties so you know it sucks. RIP.

Well yeah ditto for R115! That's the one who hurt my eyes and feelings.

Speaking of Chita, her genius was always in her blend of styles. Not a perfect ballerina, or a supremely precise jazz dancer or a dedicated contemporary dancer....but she could put those things together and dazzle better than anyone.

[quote][R115], the kicks are good, but the clip just reminds me that I've never been all that taken by Bennett's choreography--I find both Robbins and Fosse more striking. I remember when I first saw "Music and the Mirror"--and it just seemed to be poses with the occasional kick. Just has this generic quality to it--anyone else think this? (Or violently disagree?)

I agree in that I have never been taken by Bennett's choreography, either, r116, an opinion that, while mild, I have had people violently disagree with. I don't think he was bad - he was definitely not without talent, but he lacked, in my opinion, a specfic style of his own.

Chita Rivera, in the interesting, flawed, and short-lived A DANCER'S LIFE, distilled the choreographers she worked with to distinct idenifiable traits. Among them were Robbins and Fosse, and she painted their characteristics in both words and in movement.. She put it like this: "Great choreographers have style. You know how when you see a Picasso, you know it's a Picasso?"

Of Fosse, she said: "Bobby's is probably the most easy to recognize style: a flick of the wrist, a tilt of the pelvis, a gesture with a brim of a hat. Pure Fosse. A Fosse move is small and tight. Very, very precise. You are looking at the human body through a microscope". As she spoke of each choreographers' style, she physically illustrated them,, her fellow gypsies echoing the same styles in silhouette upstage of her. In this clip from A DANCER'S LIFE (yes, I'm posting it again), she refines Jack Cole, Peter Gennaro, Bob Fosse, and Jerome Robbins down to their basic essence. I know she didn't work much with Bennett, if at all, but even if she had, could she describe Bennett in the iconic way she did the others? Can anyone? I don't think so.

r120, Chita is all the things you said she is, (or isn't, as you put it). What is boils down to is that she has a style uniquely her own - something that, again, imo, Bennett did not.

R1, R4, R12: It has been long established that this occurred during rehearsals for Billion Dollar Baby.

James Mitchell tells the story. He was in the cast. It's documented.

[quote] [R1], [R4], [R12]: It has been long established that this occurred during rehearsals for Billion Dollar Baby. James Mitchell tells the story. He was in the cast. It's documented.

OMG, r122. I almost comented on that, but I honestly believed that r1, r2, and r12 were joking.

From Jerome Robbins, His Life, His Theater, His Dance: by Deborah Jowitt:

"Robbins is onstage, his back to the footlights, giving the dancers notes. As he enumerates their failings and what they damn well better do to improve, he begins backing up. They all watch him, silent, frozen, and they remain silent as he steps off onto air and falls into the orchestra pit. After the fall, says James Mitchell, "Nobody moved. Luckily he didn't fall hard: he fell into the tympani." .

From the New Yorker review of Greg Lawrence's "Dance with Demons: The Life of Jerome Robbins", link below:

" Once, in a Broadway rehearsal, Robbins was backing up, downstage, to get a better view of the dance, and coming perilously close to the edge of the orchestra pit. Everyone saw what was happening, but no one said a word. "Off he went," the dancer James Mitchell told Lawrence."He could have killed himself. I think he fell into the bass drums. Nobody went to his rescue, not for quite a while." "

The only show they did together was Billion Dollar Baby.

That's quite the review, r121/r123. Thanks for posting.

Michael Bennett may not have been the most distinctive choreographer but he was a brilliant showman as his work on Company (side by Side, etc.), Follies (Mirror, Mirror, etc).), Coco (Always Madamoiselle), Dreamgirls and Ballroom (all of them) prove.

For pure choreographic joy check out Poor Little Person from Henry, Sweet Henry.

Exactly. His genius was in staging a number. I'd add It's Not Where You Start from Seesaw. And I think that most revivals of Company fall short because they're not staged by Bennett. Also, go back to that clip from Joyful Noise.

Bennett's choreography for ACL was really unimpressive, ironic in a show allegedly about dancing. His staging talent was indeed wonderful as seen by his masterful work (aided no doubt by Hal Prince) in Company. But then again, he was not really doing dances, he was staging movement to music for non-dancers and his one out and out dance, Tick Tock is remarkably unmemorable. His concepts were stronger than his dance vocabulary and he was a better director than choreographer.

[quote] Bennett's choreography for ACL was really unimpressive, ironic in a show allegedly about dancing. His staging talent was indeed wonderful as seen by his masterful work (aided no doubt by Hal Prince) in Company. But then again, he was not really doing dances, he was staging movement to music for non-dancers and his one out and out dance, Tick Tock is remarkably unmemorable. His concepts were stronger than his dance vocabulary and he was a better director than choreographer.

Exactly, for all the faults of the movie version of "A Chorus Line" the choreography in the movie was far superior to Bennett choreography - Watch below as this is the Choreography of Chorus Line (The Movie) by Jeffery Hornaday

Bennett's first Mirror number......

I did it first, r121.

And there's this.....

And c'mon. Turkey Lurkey Time? Genius.

What does everyone remember most about Turkey Lurkey? The moment when the dancers form two circles and then criss cross into each other. That's more staging than choreography even though I think the number is wonderful fun.

I remember Miss Della Hoya's neck, r133.

Poor Joey Heatherton. She obviously worked her ass off, but she was always only the girl your creepy uncle watched while he drank Schlitz and touched himself.

Balance, pas de bourree, step, step, jete, contretemps

AND HOLD

Pirouette step, two, two and hold

Lainie Kazan said when Michael Bennett died, she didn't shed a tear. Not one drop.

Lainie was fired from Seasaw because she was too fat and getting fatter.

[quote] Lainie was fired from Seasaw because she was too fat and getting fatter.

And Lainie said she would cut both her breasts off to stay in the role

Fun Chita story:

When Chita was hit by a car in 1986 and broke her tibia and fibula (both bones in her lower leg), she had her leg cast set in character shoes. If her leg was going to have less range of movement when she healed, she wanted the 'natural state' of her new leg to be in dancer's heels.

That's a trooper.

Old news, r140.

Is Ron Field as damaged as these three?

Doesn't Chita make a reference to Jack Cole being even meaner than Jerome Robbins. Poor Jack Cole, major choreographer, but he's never gotten the love (hate) of Robbins, Fosse and Bennett. I'd say he was a more interesting choreographer than Bennett by far--is he ignored because he worked primarily in Hollywood?

Bob Fosse had a big dick, which he was most proud of. Major pussy hound, he never would have survived the current Me Too movement.

Fosse was having problems during the filming of Cabaret and sent an SOS to Gwen Verdon. She immediately flew to Germany with their daughter, only to find him in bed with two German girls. She filed for a legal separation upon returning home.

r143: Yes. Cole did most of his work in Hollywood and nighclubs, so he's considered to be not as "important" - yet every single Broadway choreographer owes a debt to him, particularly Fosse. Coles dances were extremely punishing so maybe its just as well he was never a Broadway staple.

some of the other choreographers of the day must feel left out as these three are always being talked about

There were pretty much only four director/choreographers of note during that time, Robbins, Fosse, Bennett and Gower Champion. Yeah, Champion was no prize himself but his choreography was absolutely on the level of those others. Prince would have to be included but since he wasn't a choreographer, he wasn't in that group. Patricia Birch is an also ran.

Fosse would've spit in the MeToo movement's eye.

Michael Kidd, Agnes deMille and Jack Cole all belong on the list of important Broadway/Hollywood choreographers.

None of these guys were nice. They couldn't be. You had to have a hard heart to break the hearts of so many people.

There does though seem to be a special place in hell for Robbins.

Saul Chaplin for a time a musical director at MGM during its golden age who then went on to produce movie musicals like Can Can, WSS and TSOM in his auto bio said Robbins was the closest he had seen to a genius in show business and THE most wretched person he ever knew there. He said after his one experience with him he would never work with him again no matter what.

Well if you saw Bennett's choreography live in their original productions you knew he was a very great force of nature in the theater. Sometimes his dances were wonderful as in Promises and Follies, very sad that his knock-out A Fact Can Be A Beautiful Thing is lost, and then his staging could be spectacular as with Chorus Line and Dreamgirls. Both of those were shit show in terms of book and score because at that point all Broadway creative talent had gone forever down the crapper but his staging was like a rocket going off in front of your eyes.

I hate the god awful book and score to Chorus Line but saw it four times when it opened because it was one of the most exciting things I ever saw. And anybody who has anything good to say about the movie should have a computer chip surgically installed in their brain playing an endless loop of Renata Scotto singing What I Did For Love until the moment they die.

"Bob Fosse had a big dick, which he was most proud of"

EVIDENCE?

Who wouldn't be?

The "big dick" part, every celebrity mentioned on the DL is supposed to have one.

R62 During out of town tryouts of Funny Girl, Ray Stark agreed to hire Barbras actingteacher Allan Miller to coach her (and Sidney Chaplin) behind Kanins back. He was introduced as her cousin. Among other things he felt her performance lacked emotional depth,and one night urged her to dedicate the evenigs performance to her dead father.

Magic happened and Stark was confident he had created a star. The next night magic did NOT happen and the producer yelled at Babs: " I made you!...I own you !...I want last nigths performance back!". She said:"Fuck you!" and threw him out of her dressing room:-)

as told by Alan Miller to James Spada for his 2nd Babs-bio.

I've never seen a more dysfunctional workplace than the out of town tryout (Boston) of Dream Girls. The man was a terrorist.

R157 part of the blame was Jennifer Holliday diva like behavior behind the scenes

Perhaps R157 but every dress rehearsal ended in tears. It was truly jaw dropping. There were no adults in that room.

So why did Donna marry him? Everybody but everybody at the time was saying what the fuck is she thinking?

What woman marries a sex-obsessed gay cokehead?

R160, Donna is a moron. Sweet lady but has the IQ of a philodendron. Even the kids in ACL were laughing about the marriage. Most depressing thing was when she admitted that Bennett's parents told her the only way she could hold onto him was if she had a baby.

Michael Bennett did some lovely original work in his choreography (as the youtube clips of both "Turkey Lurkey Time" and "Poor little person" attest), but I've always thought his true genius was as a director. A Chorus Line would never been the success it was without the ways he could move the performers on stage and created such arresting images of them (like the famous moment of them frozen holding their head shots before him), and of course no one had ever seen anything quite like "Dreamgrisl" and the amazing cinematic changes of scene.

I think all choreographers are by necessity horrible exacting people, but Robbins was the worst--I've never known anyone in theatre to have anything nice to say about him whatsoever as a person.

If you were above the title he was a sweetheart.

There is some good in everybody.

I know Donna McK a bit from having worked with her a few years ago. She is surely one of the loveliest and kindest performers out there. And a true chorus girl right down to her malformed toes! Every day she'd show up for rehearsals in the blazing summer heat beautifully dressed and in full makeup and false eyelashes. She was a beloved presence among the young company of dancers and set a great example of behavior.

Did she ever remarry? I don't think so...but wasn't sure and didn't want to ask.

BUMP!

[quote]A Chorus Line would never been the success it was without the ways he could move the performers on stage and created such arresting images of them (like the famous moment of them frozen holding their head shots before him), and of course no one had ever seen anything quite like "Dreamgrisl" and the amazing cinematic changes of scene.

He stood on the shoulders of great collaborators. Tharon Musser & Robin Wagner made both of those shows work.

The one who popped pills

Wow, someone on this board remembers Tharon Musser.

She transformed the industry r168, her staccato lighting cues in Chorus Line (made possible by computer control for the first time) were revolutionary. She is well worth remembering.

Jerome Robbins

R169, so with the computer control, could say, Jules Fisher have done the same job or even surpass what she did?

Jules & Peggy did great work but Tharon wins. The Mondrian shapes, the precision focus pin spots, the dramatic punctuation and motion tracking were pure art. Nothing before or since has touched that work as the quintessential lighting design. It was efficient and perfect.

Dreamgirls scenic elements would not have worked without her lighting either, Indeed a lot of the scenery was lighting rigs. The cinematic feeling of a continuous dolly shot was a 50/50 collaboration of lighting and scenery which required amazing precision on the part of the stagehands and board operators. Theirs was a great collaboration.

Jerome Robbins is the winner!

My Partner of 20 years was in the revival of West Side Story with Debbie Allen. He was Baby John! He still has his Jets Jacket. Jerome Robbins hated him and always put him down but he wouldn't let him out of his contract. He was a real asshole to a lot of dancers then but Debbie was his STAR!

R175, I remembered reading an interview with James J Mellon who played Riff. He said that Robbins especially was vicious to him because Riff was somewhat Robbins and he also hated that he was gay. Mellon also said that there were a lot of conservative Christians in the cast who hated gays. Mellon eventually became a Reverend.

Re Robbins and Sondheim: whatever caused the rift between them--at least on Sondheim's part--must have been serious. When Robbins was chosen for a Kennedy Center honor, he asked Sondheim to present him at the ceremony, and Sondheim refused. Kind of out of character.

Robbins saved FUNNY THING, so Sondheim should have been grateful, but perhaps Robbins' McCarthy hearing sins still lingered for some. It's one thing to work with someone, another to publicly give him an award.

Sondheim's been very generous in his praise for Robbins in terms of A Funny Thing and Gypsy. I think it must have been personal.

Gower Champion wasn't as mean as the other three

Gower was difficult, but he did give me that third arabesque!

Thank god for small miracles