Theatre Gossip #301: "A Darker Voice Than Typical Meets Patti's Meltdown" Edition

Where is everyone finding this audio clip of Lauren Ambrose singing "My fair Lady"?

There aren't too many revivals. Performers need good material to shine and there's so precious little of that now.

Carousel's choreographer Justin Peck profiled on CBS Sunday Morning today. Hot, sexy, cute . . . but he pinged to 7th heaven . . . yet the profile made sure we're aware he's married to a female.

The Lauren Ambrose clip is searchable on tumblr. It's interesting, because it's definitely a darker, or more covered, sound than Julie Andrews or Marni Nixon had. It sounds like a legit voice, though, until the ending - the high notes at the very end seem to be a bit of a stretch for her.

Is Ahrens and Flaherty's "Dessa Rose" a good musical?

Peck certainly isn't attractive in that video. I didn't get a strong ping, unless we're talking on a geekometer. I hate that permanent head cold sound he has to his speaking voice. Can he fix that or is it all down to the schnoz?

I would love to remind the datalounge panel that DL fave Robbie Fairchild’s wedding to Tiller was heavily featured in press including segments on Martha Stewart’s tv show and eveytime he speaks a sequined purse falls out of his mouth...so...

[quote]Is Ahrens and Flaherty's "Dessa Rose" a good musical?

In a word, no. A couple of passable moments and slivers of nice melodies here and there, but in the end, it doesn’t have much reason to exist.

Didn't know Stoppard is Czech.

Stoppard is a 'bounced Czech' -- his family fled when he was very young.

Just caught Sutton’s sleep inducing cabaret act on PBS. Caterwauling aside, when did Jonathan Groff morph into Isaac Mizrahi?

Jonathan Groff did look a little chubby, maybe it's for his Netflix show's 2nd season? I do think Jonathan and Sutton made a good musical theatre couple. They could star in a revival of My One and Only!

Groff filmed that in December. He's prepping now for Mindhunter season 2. He's lost weight since then.

I take it you've never seen Groff's father. There's fat in them thar genes.

Oh please justin peck is so obviously feminine and gay. I don't care who he's married to.

[quote]In a word, no. A couple of passable moments and slivers of nice melodies here and there, but in the end, it doesn’t have much reason to exist.

Grrrrrrrr!

Ambrose is just a very amateurish soprano sound. You’d hear better in any regional production. Not sure why Sher wanted her or why she agreed to do it. She’s a terrific actress, but as a singer in one of the great Broadway soprano roles, she just doesn’t pass muster. It sounds like what it is, a weak, barely trained voice. She did train legitimately in high school and somewhat in college, but that was 25 years ago. She’s going to have a very difficult time sustaining. I would imagine some serious vocal problems are ok the horizon.

Groff is thick, not fat. He and Sutton would most certainly make a wonderful theatre couple, but Lea Michele would burn down a theater before she let any other woman have that role.

Mr. and Mrs. Justin Peck

Oops, make that engaged . . . not married yet.

Oh, engaged? Well, I guess her shame and humiliation will be only half what mine was.

Go ahead and put on those pounds, Tiler honey. You were never a great dancing talent anyway.

Justin Peck ass has been up more times than the stock market, guuuuurl please! PLEASE!

I am straight, bitches!

The thought of taking another man’s penis in my mouth and caressing it with my lips and tongue is disgusting!

And don’t even get me started on the vile feeling of a thick dick sliding my your ass and hitting my pleasure spot! Gross!

Yes, Justin Peck pings. However, his work is good, not great. It feels very European, circa 1990. The clips from Carousel looked outstanding, though. I liked it more than some people but those clips would have made me buy tickets.

Jonathan groff is NOT fat! He's thicc! And it takes a really long time to create a new musical. Like really long. I mean look at "mean girls". Can you imagine if they rushed that process? Or Hamilton? Those shows would be crap! Creating a new musical is one of the hardest things you could do in life. You guys have no idea. You're making yourselves sound stupid. Like, literally. Justin peck is most certainly straight. Sutton foster is such an amazing once in a lifetime talent. So captivating. Calling someone a gypsy is extremely offensive. Like extremely. One of the worst names you could call someone. The name must be changed. The lochness monster is real, so is santa clause and if you aren't circumcised then you have a higher chance of getting aids and stds also. Look around! Look around! Isn't it great to be alive right now? Are those the stupid lyrics? Haha. Do you hear how crazy this all sounds? Ok? Good.

Oh, let's end this now. Groff is not fat; he is not thick. He's husky!

Jon husky. I like that.

Husky is the new Gypsy!

Surprised there aren't more rumors about Sher and Ambrose given his level of commitment to her as a musical theater star not one but twice

So Rebecca Kim Jordan is the precious cunt, aided by the spastic with purpose henchwoman Jen Cody, that started the Gypsy Robe fiasco. Jordan is an imperious bitch who is hands off when it comes to real matters, she’s an aging SJW who loves her title and perks, that bitch ruins EVERYTHING she meddles with!!!!

It used to be that dancers/musical actors would have a girl on their arm at openings and award shows, but wouldn’t beard in their private life. Now even chorus boys, dancers, musical stars and stage actors have to be “straight” to get work.

Still in 2018, the “out” ratio is relatively small given the total number of guys in the field.

Well like I always say, there’s nothing like a good woman by your side to make a man feel invincible!

R29 LMFAO!!

R27 I love you.

Will you marry me?

Lauren Amborse has an awesome voice.

Meh Fair Lady

R18 Well now that Groff has a new boyfriend, Lea may finally have to take a back seat. She will have to move over for the self-proclaimed innovative and talented Corey Baker, who has persevered through untold hardship, and a bad marriage, to become the next great choreographer of our lifetime!

!!!

Pictures of the adorable couple taken yesterday during the release of Corey's new groundbreaking, environmentally conscious film - Dancing in Antarctica, or whatever it is called.

R39 Groff does look...um....thicker than Corey. But then so does his bulge.

Good lord: post-screening discussion of the new Terrence McNally documentary with McNally, Joe Mantello, F. Murray Abraham, and Nathan Lane. Can you imagine all those CUNTS in one room! Was Patti LuPone busy?

Why is Hello, Dolly closing?

Good questions, R42. You would think they could stunt cast that show so it will run a few years. Does someone need the theater?

It is a very expensive show to run

Jonathan Groff has those Amish genes.

Mennonite, not Amish.

Regardless, his genes are full of beef marrow and buttermilk

[quote]Mennonite, not Amish.

They're the same. It's just that the Mennonites got tired of wearing black and white and decided that God would allow them to wear purple and brown. And the Mennonites believe that they don't have to paint their bumpers black on their vehicles.

Otherwise, they are the same genetically.

R42 The reason Dolly is closing is it's a terribly dated show. The only reason to see it is of there's a mega star in it, like Bette Midler. Otherwise, who cares?

Whatever happened to Lea Michele?

[quote]Whatever happened to Lea Michele?

She's not winning awards for Dreamgirls in London, that's for sure.

I though Bernie was packing them in. No?

I’m touring with Darren Cris in a summer blockbuster musical sensation tour. Tickets are hard to come by, my fans tell me!

R26, the word is spelled "thick." Stop your assault on the English language at once.

If you're touring with Darren, you might want to learn to spell his name.

Oh, balderdash, R55.

And the Tweeter at R39 needs to learn how to spell Jonathan.

This thread is now reduced to pedants arguing about spelling

[quote]Ambrose is just a very amateurish soprano sound. You’d hear better in any regional production. Not sure why Sher wanted her or why she agreed to do it. She’s a terrific actress, but as a singer in one of the great Broadway soprano roles, she just doesn’t pass muster. It sounds like what it is, a weak, barely trained voice. She did train legitimately in high school and somewhat in college, but that was 25 years ago. She’s going to have a very difficult time sustaining. I would imagine some serious vocal problems are ok the horizon.

And your expertise in this is, what exactly?

A Juilliard trained classical singer performing in major international opera and concert houses, but thanks for playing R59. I’ve worked with minor league z list soubrettes in college that could sing her off the stage.

And I’d like to reiterate I think she’s an amazing actress. Her Claire in SFU was brilliant, as was her Juliet in the Park. She has a beautiful transparent quality about her that works really well on the small screen. She’s underused in film and TV. She needs an excellent series on Hulu or Netflix. But as a legit warhorse musical singer? No. I doubt that her Fanny would have been much better. She should be working, just not in Broadway musical theater. I think she’s unfortunately not really in a position to say no, and Sher for some reason was up her ass, so why wouldn’t she do it? I would be very surprised if she takes the Tony.

I hate to say it, but Benanti would have been better. Much better. Maybe she’ll replace.

[quote]I hate to say it, but Benanti would have been better. Much better. Maybe she’ll replace

Benanti is starting to show her age. Technically, Eliza should be 20s-early 30s. Benanti isn't looking ingénue anymore.

Sher directed the production with an older woman in mind. Ambrose is post forty. She and Benanti are close in age. He wanted Higgins and Eliza to be close in age as well. It would not be out of character in this production.

Benanti is actually two years younger than Ambrose, she’s 38, Lauren is 40.

[quote]A Juilliard trained classical singer performing in major international opera and concert houses, but thanks for playing

"Thanks for playing" gives you away as the dilettante you no doubt are, R60.

Lol, whatever R65. Neither my self worth not my career are determined by a DL troll. I know it’s difficult for failures to accept that there are successes in the world and on this board.

There is no singer who could sing both Fanny and Eliza well. They require totally different types of voices.

R54 that whole post is a joke. These days us younger people spell thick like thicc for slang and fun. Relax grandpa. I was making fun. But you wouldn't know that. Haha. I know how to spell.

Oh I think Yma could have successfully done both, r67. I can see her also throwing in some late night sets at Les Mouches.

Ruthie Henshall could have sung both in the 90s.

I'm less familiar with Judy Kuhn but she's known for both styles, right?

R68, you are a condescending twit, and ironic misspellings are neither smart nor clever. And I'm 34. The only I could be a grandpa is if I had a son at 17 who had a son this year. That would require me to have had sex with a woman. Not happening.

^^^get young! ❤

You mean slavishly follow every stupid trend that comes down the pipe? No thank you!

I really don’t think Laura Benanti is going to replace. She campaigned for the role, I doubt she would sign on for sloppy seconds.

Whoopi Goldberg, on the other hand, would do it.

34 going on 80.

Didn't Barbara Cook star in Funny Girl in stock or something? I can't imagine how that went. Add me to the list of people surprised by Ambrose's voice. I think it's lovely and fits the score well. I'd heard her sing on YouTube videos and on Six Feet Under, but it always seemed like she'd be more of a belter. I figured that, despite the fact that she doesn't look or sound Jewish at all, her voice would have been a better fit for that proposed Funny Girl revival.

I love Judy Kuhn!

Benanti is too hard for Eliza, as she was for Amalia.

Stormy Daniels *IS* Eliza Doolittle

Benanti would've made Martine McCutcheon's attendance record seem superb in comparison.

In all seriousness, Sarah Huckabee Sanders would make a great Colonel Pickering.

Did someone say Colonel Sanders?

Chenoweth could sing both roles. Whether she could get away with the dialect and dialogue is a legitimate question. She has never really tried to disappear into a role before and probably never really will so we really don't know if she is capable of playing against the type she has pursued for herself. She did say Eliza Doolittle is a character she really wanted to play at one point.

Now she's almost old enough to be Mrs. Pearce!

My God. Look at dem feets in R19

R27 He is a bit husky next to his bae, who has an unfortunate horsey jawline.

Lulu for Eliza!

We're all just a bunch of.....

These threads are filling up with juvenilia, thanks in no small part to r68. Run along, dear, but do come back when you're ready to chat with the adults.

Horsey jawline makes no sense. Horsey face means long face, long thin nose etc. Horse toothed is self explanatory. No human has a jawline reminiscent of a horse.

Yeah, that's right R68, only come back when you're mature enough to say things like "come back when you're ready to chat with the adults".

Some of you got way too upset over the fact you didn't know what "thicc" meant.

R86 Agree. A horse by any other name...

Who is this talent-less hack who has stolen the heart of the most eligible bachelor around? That dance film he made was God awful.

I know, I know, r90.

Brünnhilde as Eliza

Gays in the industry NYC and LA are in tears and ripping out their hair because their beloved Groff is off the market.

Oh no, is that really Groff’s bf? I thought he’d be getting some prime Pittsburgh tail considering he’s there six months a year for his Netflix show.

R89 i prefer "dearie". Run long DEARIE. Or even "song long dearie, come back when you're ready to chat with the adults". We are on the theatre thread after all. 🤓

"Song long"? You're a moron.

What are the stupid lyrics? So long? Oopsies! Haha.

R96 Why not both. No need to be exclusive. But still have the comfort of a boyfriend who is only a video chat away.

Really it is a perfect situation for them both, no? Romance, mixed with a lot of hookups on the side.

[quote]I thought he’d be getting some prime Pittsburgh tail considering he’s there six months a year for his Netflix show.

Too close to the relatives. Nobody wants to have sex with their cousin.

How dreary is this year's Tony Awards broadcast going to be?

"Oopsies!"

THERE'S your name for the terpsichore garment under contention: The Oopsie Robe.

R101 Then Jon has already crossed that road.

Spent 10 months in Pittsburgh last year.

Sierra Boggess has announced on FB that she has pulled out from singing at a West Side Story concert in London this summer. I assume she was singing the role of Maria. Good for her. But what does she think of the gypsy robe controversy?

Again, the hypocrisy of it all. If it 's perfectly fine for a thoroughly miscast Brian Stokes Mitchell to essay Emile De Becque because "it's only a concert," then why shouldn't the same apply to Boggess playing Maria?

I have it on good authority the next Eliza is Daphne Rubin Vega.

Does the "Robbie and Ashley have broken up" troll know that Robbie just posted a photo of himself in London holding Ashley's dog on his lap?

*dong

Does the Robbie and Ashley are happily together troll know that Ashley blocked Robbie on Instagram? They unfollowed each other and Ashley deleted his likes on Robbie’s page.

Last story was that Robbie had done all that to Ashley bar the blocking. I don't have an IG account to check up on these claims and I don't care to join.

Leak each other's nudes, Jerrys!

[quote]Nobody wants to have sex with their cousin.

Speak for yourself.

R112 EXACTLY cause my super hot rican/colombian cousin with the big 10 inch dick can get it with a quickness. Oh yes. It's like that.🔥🔥🔥

They are the typical millennial gay couple. Post tons of pics and love hearts and comments. In a rash breakup/fight, block each other then delete every trace of romance.

Then wash, repeat, wash, repeat.

Honestly, Ashley Day could do so much better than Robbie. He could get a hot London guy, not sure why he puts up with Robbie’s whims and neuroses.

I have an idea: How about a new group called Theatre Gossip: Millennial Edition ... and the adults, who care (and know) about theater history before Wicked, can continue here - proper spelling and all.

God, I find it so hard to believe (and yes, I know we've all been down this road a hundred times) that Benanti still isn't forty.

When does Andy Randells start rehearsals for MFL and taking over for Norbert Leon Butts? Do we think he’ll be off script by the time he’s in performance? Any one else think he reads to young to be casted in this role?

Begone, child.

I heard Andy was going in to MFL after his stint in HD taking over from Santino, but before Gavin returns. Also he’s not going in to HD until BitB is over.

[quote]Any one else think he reads to young to be casted in this role?

Oh, dear.

[quote]The reason Dolly is closing is it's a terribly dated show

Bullshit. That certainly wasn't the opinion of the reviews, or of most of the people who saw it. The cheers for the show as a beautifully crafted work of art were as loud as the cheers for Bette and Bernadette.

Why are you so obsessed, r110/ r114? Hardly a day goes by that you don't need to bring them up. And of course, you have no knowledge at all of them blocking/breaking up. It's all the supposition of your fevered and diseased mind. They each have thousands (Robbie almost 30k) followers on IG - and they're not listed alphabetically. So you go through all those names to see if they're each still listed?

You're warped.

They are probably using the Dolly sets for the tour. The train alone was beautiful. That's the reason Disney closed "Newsies" they didn't want to build another million dollar set that was designed for the tour anyway.

R123 you probably hit the bullseye, there was a healthy enthusiasm for the show to continue on, and a number of ladies ready, and inquiring about the potential, but the road is cheaper, especially with our dear Betty Lynn happy to perform for a reduced fee...

Lauren Ambrose has a thicc and husky voice!

r41: Sounds like a total circle-jerk (with Tom Kirdahy as the ringmaster).

The reason Dolly is closing has to do with Rudin being a pompous, entitled asshole.

Yep R127, he wants it to be a short but legendary revival, NOT a long run that will trickle to a close, Bette will end it with a bang, he’s actually the biggest CUNT on Broadway.

If you think the Robbie & Ashley trolls are bad, DL has SEVENTEEN threads about Jonathan Groff, and the last two have been filled with eldergays stalking/attacking his new twink boyfriend with the horse teeth.

I wonder who has the bigger dick, Jonathan Groff, Robbie Fairchild, or Ashley Day?

Max Von Essen probably has an inkling.

[quote]I wonder who has the bigger dick, Jonathan Groff, Robbie Fairchild, or Ashley Day?

BIGGEST, not bigger.

It’s DEF Robbie, JG is a “thicc” 6.5 and Ashley is in Max territory, we frequent certain gyms, you know, they ain’t in Norm Lewisville!

We've all seen Groff's dick and it ain't thick, honey.

R133 I KNOW gurl, was joking because of the earlier comments, she’s got a reasonable unit, nothing special, just like Sutton!

ROCKTOPIA!

“She,” r134? I’m reference to Jonathan Groff?

Could you be any more obnoxious?

Anyone see the McNally doc? How is it?

R136 Foreign frau?

No, not a frau at all, r138, just someone who finds you tiresome and not amusing. I’d wager that we who do are legion,

R139 I am not R133, I just assumed your were some fucked up frau, but you're a fucking fangirl EEEEEEEK

Damn terrible reviews for Donna summer musical

Nice try dodgers suck it

[quote] Damn terrible reviews for Donna summer musical

Good. Maybe Cher will pack up and head to Vegas before she even lands.

R141, don’t count your chickens. BLACK JERSEY BOYS is coming in from Berkeley, and will put them securely back on top, where they BELONG.

Are BLACK JERSEY BOYS going to do Four Seasons' music? Wouldn't they do...IDK...the Parliaments, George Clinton, Eddie Hazel?

r144 And Funkadelic. That's what I was trying to think of, Funkadelic.

The Niles Rogers Story

[QUOTE]last two have been filled with eldergays

I doubt there's anyone with a penis in those threads.

So which new show will take the Shubert in the fall?

R148, Hazel, starring the incandescent Klea Blackhurst.

[quote]BLACK JERSEY BOYS is coming in from Berkeley

Brought to you by Starbucks.

[quote]The Niles Rogers Story

Double "oh, dear."

Incredible as it seems, Klea Blackhurst is now even fatter than she was when she did "Hazel."

[quote]If you think the Robbie & Ashley trolls are bad, DL has SEVENTEEN threads about Jonathan Groff, and the last two have been filled with eldergays stalking/attacking his new twink boyfriend with the horse teeth.

Filled with Groff fanfraus direct from tumblr

Actually, "Ain't too Proud" is quite good, especially for a jukebox musical. They must be planning on holding it until next Spring, since the real star of the show is Jeremy Pope, and he's been announced for Choir Boy at MTC, starting in late December. I don't think he'd give up a musical where his is the standout performance. Unless Serge and Jack have been hitting on black sugar.

Head Over Heels has gotten mixed reviews in SF, the city with no artistic taste. All of the reviews seem to think it has a future.

That was a rather scathing review of Summer in the Times. Has anyone seen it? It sounds better-suited for a cruise ship than a Broadway stage. The book sounds lazy a f.

Most of the reviews of "Summer" were scathing.

Summer will be gone before the official start of....uhh

Adam & Steve's revenge...

So they cast a black actress as Ann Darrow in King Kong. Doesn't that ruin the whole story ? Kong is offered the native girls all the time but becomes infatuated with a type he has never seen before. If she looks just like every other one he has seen, what's the attraction, her personality?

The natives in King Kong are black? I've never seen the movie(s). Wiki says the fictional Skull Island is supposed to be located near Indonesia.

Thank you to r160 for a post that made me laugh (it's been a slow laugh day).

Unless they change the story, why would the natives go through all the trouble of trying to buy and then eventually kidnap Ann if she's not white?

We're gettin Ain't Too Proud t the Ahmanson in August to make up for the hole in the schedule left by Crazy For You. This season has been a bust (Red Shoes was a disappointment, I left Bright Star at intermission and never made it to Something Rotten), and Soft Power is next, which I'll probably skip. So The Humans and Ain't Too Proud to Beg are gonna have to rally to save it.

The Humans is a ludicrously overhyped and over-awarded mediocrity.

R164, was that the Bourne Red Shoes?

Yes R76 Barbara did do Funny Girl out in Westbury in the round. with George Hamilton. Late 1968-9 or so? I forget. Saw it. Cook had no Jewishness, just did the show as any young white girl would. She was tiny, Hamilton seemed more-so. FG is not a show for the round. The show had no magic to it, but ooh was in lovely voice. At the time it was just a quick in/out, a paycheck.

The "us younger people" poster seems such a big sissy. I imagine him a skinny swishy blond, hands often on hips as he takes a stand against all the hurt the "straight" gays inflict on him.

Oh -- no one uses "thicc". That's just typing, when cornered, to make a spelling error or a typo seem intentional.

Oh darling R49 have you any idea of theater? Good God, you think Dolly is a terribly dated show?. By such specious thinking all shows are. Every "classic" is.

What does Santino look like naked? Anyone know? What does he wear backstage?

Of course nobody uses "thicc." And if they do, they're adolescent or just post-, not somebody you want to emulate. next he'll be writing "squee."

[QUOTE]seems such a big sissy

I've never understood the homophobia on this site in general, but really, calling someone a sissy in a theatre thread? Projecting much?

[QUOTE]no one uses "thicc". That's just typing, when cornered, to make a spelling error or a typo seem intentional.

That's almost painfully out of touch. Do feel free to Google it and see just how stupid you are.

[QUOTE]And if they do, they're adolescent or just post-, not somebody you want to emulate

But somebody you want to fuck and yet constantly get rejected by, judging by your saltiness.

[quote] [R164], was that the Bourne Red Shoes?

yes, it was. And it was the reason I renewed my subscription because I wanted to get a good ticket for it, and subscribers were being offered prime seats. I'm a big Bourne fan, but this one just didn't work for me. Not sorry I saw it, of course, but I found it disappointing and slapped together.

Google it yourself, darling. I believe the original tween poster mis-used the word "thicc."

R173, I am very sorry to hear that. What little is available on Youtube looks really interesting. I would have liked to have seen it, but I live in beyond rural NH.

I know everyone here knows this, but can I just say: the commercial theater has really changed radically in the last 6 or 7 years.

It really saddens me.

Economics, terrible cookie cutter college theater programs, internet hyperbole, the church of Sutton and Telsey + Company destroyed Broadway. Right now this season, at least musical related, is the industry equivalent of 9/11.

The Raul Company or the NPH Company?

The original Dean Jones is still the one to beat.

[quote] I know everyone here knows this, but can I just say: the commercial theater has really changed radically in the last 6 or 7 years. It really saddens me.

Oh please, it happens all the time. Big show comes to town, Phantom, Les Miz, RENT, Hamilton, that sucks the oxygen out of Times Square. That's the show everyone wants to see and can't and junk comes in to try and entertain the disappointed masses. For every "Summer" you have first class shows like "My Fair Lady" and "Three Tall Women" filling theatres.

But R180, those are revivals.

Of the new shows... Heaven help us.

And yes, Harry Potter, I'm looking at your over-long, WAY over-rated self. And that's considered the best of the bunch, along with BAND'S VISIT, which I did like and admire more than love.

Speaking of a great theater season, "SpongeBob SquarePants" leads the Outer Critics Circle nominations.

It's dreadful, every last bit of it, r176. The trite plays, the banal musicals, the revivals-out-of-desperation...everything pitched to infants with ADD.

r182 Lots of noms for "Mean Girls" but not for the score. Might not be a pleasant night in the Fey house.

I saw Mean Girls in DC. It wasn't much, but the score was affirmatively awful. A nomination would have been a travesty. Not that we haven't seen travesties....

R178, dear, do educate yourself, Telsey + Company is the top casting agency in legit theater and does a huge amount of tv and film. They do it horribly, but they do it all.

Oh, dear. I thought r178 was making a bad joke.

Look for negative press start to envelop The Bands Visit... those Mean Girls want that Tony Award, even if it means bringing up a decades old story about Yazbek's agent having a Me Too issue with an assistant before he was fired from William Morris Agency!

What on earth would a MeToo issue from Yazbeck's agent have to do with the Tonys? Yazbeck's the one who would be nominated, not his agent. Plus, the Mean Girls crew would have to be delusional to think they could take the Tony away from The Band's Visit. The reviews for Mean Girls were unexceptional, and especially not for the music. It's a fun night at the theatre, sort of, but not in the same league with "Hairspray," and definitely not in the same league as "The Band's Visit."

Not saying its logical- tony fights are ugly, and look for this one to get ugly

What are some notoriously ugly Tony fights of years past? I know about perhaps the most notorious one between Nine and Dreamgirls, but what else?

Not exactly the same thing, but I remember when I was in high school being kind of shocked by a CBS ad for the Tonys the week prior in which the announcer said "tune in to see who wins Best Musical -- will it be Ragtime or The Lion King?" I mean, of course, we knew it was down to those two, but seemed kind of crass for the official broadcaster to do that.

Tony fights are ugly when the playing field is even, or somewhat close. There's no "even" between Mean Girls, a middling show that got so-so reviews and was particularly dunned for its awful songs, and "The Band's Visit," which got near-universal raves and much applause for its score.

A case - but not a strong one - could be made that Lauren Ambrose might take the Tony away from Katrina Lenk, but that's about it. For something to win over critical darling "The Band's Visit," it would have to be a super-hot ticket (money often trumps art), but that's not the case with Mean Girls.

I don’t need their good opinions I have plenty of opinions Everybody has opinions but it doesn’t make them true What’s true is being me And I’d rather be me I’d rather be me than be with you.

Tina Fey is actually a bit of a bitch and will be campaigning like a manic, she’s insufferable. It’s fitting the show is such a dud.

I'm sure it will distress the weirdo Fairchild-Ashley Day Troll to know that Ashley tweeted something today about having a few days off for a break, and the first person to like it was Robbie Fairchild.

Avenue Q winning the Tony over Wicked was the biggest upset ever. Las Vegas' economy still hasn't recovered.

R196, What about Two Gentlemen of Verona winning over FOLLIES in 1972?

Saw Frozen last night. Exactly what you would expect, nothing more nothing less. Cassie Levy was out. My God, this show just opened and they are already calling out. Isn't this Tony voter time ? As much as I dislike her, I have to admit that Patti Murin was actually very good as Anna.

[QUOTE]I'm sure it will distress the weirdo Fairchild-Ashley Day Troll

Given you're both following and posting tedious minutiae from their social media, that rather makes you the "weirdo Fairchild-Ashley Day Troll".

Considering that one is the Poppins Loon, it would not be surprising to me if the other one was also him, talking to himself.

He’s also the “thicc” person.

Wait, the Poppins Loon is the Anti-Fairchild Loon? You mean Matt?

Stop! It’s like Beetlejuice. If you say his name in three posts in a row he’ll appear.

Patti Murin didn’t do anything that five hundred other girls her type couldn’t do better R198.

Ashley also posted on Instagram that it was once again just him and his dog, Ralph (the dog Robbie pictured himself with a few days ago). Robbie has left London. And yes, the anti-Poppins loon and the "Robbie and Ashley have broken up" loon are one and the same.

Agreed R203, there is something “off” about Murin’s entire performance, nothing is wonderful, she’s serviceable but doesn’t wow you, same thing with overall production. Maybe the show is too much for Murin to handle? Odd.

The “off” you’re reading is she’s certifiable, R205.

Is this Ashley a girl or a guy? Who is she?

You know very well who HE is, r207. Stop trying to be cute.

Wouldn't it be funny if Tom Hollander won Best Actor In A Play? It's going to be a tough race between Nathan and Seth Numrich.

I haven't even seen Tom Hollander and I already know he's better than Andrew Garfield.

The Public Theatre will be doing Conor Mcpherson's "The Girl From North Country" next season, directed by Conor. Do you think Oskar will allow the London cast to come over, or will the cast be from here? Auditions are currently happening.

R211,

Considering that the show is set in the USA, doesn't make a lot of sense for that cast to come over. Then again, look at ANGELS IN AMERICA!

I will say that the GIRL FROM NORTH COUNTRY cast was exceptional. Two of those ladies won Oliviers, I think.

Iceman Cometh is like a tree in a forest- No one is talking about it

[quote]Do you think Oskar will allow the London cast to come over, or will the cast be from here? Auditions are currently happening.

Didn't you just answer your own question?

[quote]The Public Theatre will be doing Conor Mcpherson's "The Girl From North Country" next season, directed by Conor. Do you think Oskar will allow the London cast to come over, or will the cast be from here? Auditions are currently happening.

I think I'm going to look at the movie version for Mamie and I. Or should it be Grace and I?

This year's Tony broadcast seems so dull in advance. Maybe Rudin will let Midler and the waiters do the title number from Hello, Dolly! this year as a way to gin up sales for her returning for the last six weeks.

Why should they do that r216? That's the show's orgasm; people pay their big bucks largely to witness the climax live. A TV version would just dilute the thrills.

The London cast for Girl from the North Country was brilliant, esp. the 2 Olivier winners Shirley Henderson and Sheila Atim.

What the show needs desperately is NOT the playwright directing it. There's no sense of time or place (1930s Minnesota).

I hope Seth Numrich beats Nathan. It’s so selfish and greedy to put a leading role into a supporting category just to give the actor a better chance at winning.

posted in the real estate thread but not really noticed: "There are also quite a few actors who have appeared in nude plays like "Naked Boys Singing" and "Party" who are now real estate agents in NYC."

And Seth Numrich actually is far better than Nathan. There's no question Tom Hollander is better than Andrew Garfield.

I'm changing my name to Corelle Bajour.

That too! I had a great time at Travesties and hope to go again.

R215. What it SHOULD be, dear "M," is "for Mamie and me" or "Grace and me--a real Vassar girl knows the difference between the nominative and objective cases. You, on the other hand, appear to a drop-out from Slippery Cunt State.

Slippery Cunt State.

is that the place in MA where they get their rocks off?

The loon speaks!

I wonder what would happen if one of the Disney princesses at the theme parks tried to call in sick with an anxiety attack.

If a leg in a cast didn’t bring it home for Andy Karl, an anxiety attack won’t bring it home for Murin. Remember back about 10 years ago when you could attack a performer for missing shows but almost no performers had public platforms yet where they could give you their unadulterated sob stories? Get in line, Murin. As if you’re the first artist to have emotional issues? LMM’s uselfaware narcissim, groff’s Peter Pan syndrome, Donna murphy’s Hypochondria, Sutton Foster’s agorophobia, you never heard them complain. They were just busy winning Tony’s and nominations. Buh-bye. There are soldiers with anxiety issues. They’ve seen real bombs; you’re only IN ONE.

Jesus Christ, the crazy is just BLAZING in her eyes in that photo.

Sutton Foster's agoraphobic?

r230 does that mean dull as dishwater?

We’re in dangerous territory when an unstable and mediocre theatrical placemat like Murin becomes a “thing”, she’s a nonstarter.

Any word on what is going into the Shubert? Does Rudin have a secret show on the horizon?

R233 - Bajour!

For all the criticism of her over sharing,Patti Murin is still great in Frozen and seems a highly likely Tony nominee. She got an Outer Critics Circle nod and Caissie Levy was snubbed.

R235, probably, I found them both charm free and simply “acceptable” in the roles, but Disney will never cast performers with true stage magic, everyone is kept at the medium level.

r236 excuse me?

Sorry, but when you are doing both parts of "Angels in America", Roy Cohn is definitely a supporting/featured role. So, Nathan's nomination is right where it belongs.

Frozen is Patti Murin’s show. She is amazing in the role. And I was not a fan before

R239, good, then she can have all of the blame for it being a boring slogfest.

Heather Headley and Sheri Rene Scott were both unusually good in Aida. But otherwise, it is true that the Disney stage musicals avoid casting unique talents.

It may be that they want word of mouth praising the show as a whole (that is, the Disney package) rather than this or that cast member, which would redound to an individual's credit rather than to that of the Disney people.

I saw Frozen last night. Patti was terrific. Caissie Levy left at the end of Act 1 right before Let it Go. Alyssa Fox was wonderful!

I think Jeremy Jordan counts as a unique talent. Certainly, many of the cast of Beauty and The Beast count. Not sure if there has been anyone else though.

Agreed, R232, but I guess any publicity is good publicity?

Jeremy Jordan is the textbook definition of not a unique talent

I wasn't thinking of Jordan, R243, because I meant (though didn't say) only the Disney stagings of their cartoons, so I didn't count Newsies. Jordan is a fine talent, though he too often turns up in underwritten parts that don't give him acting room.

[quote] Jeremy Jordan is the textbook definition of not a unique talent

Jeremy has a huge fan following. It's probably the most intense theatre following in quite sometime. Someone I know sells memorabilia on ebay and said a Jordan Playbill even from a total flop like Bonnie & Clyde commands between $75- $100 and moves.

So WTF is going on with Javier Munoz? There was an interesting post on ATC suggesting that Chris Peterson is the person harassing Javier...

The critics are going to slaughter Denzel and Wolfe over their steaming pile of horseshit tonight.

MY TALENT IS THAT I SCREAM EVERYTHING THROUGH MY CLENCHED CROMAGNON FACE

Whoa - Levy left in the middle of Act 1?

That is interesting. They have probably decided that whoever is doing 'Let It Go' needs to be at 100%.

It is a one song role just like Grizzabella.

Heather Headley and Sheri Rene Scott were fantastic in AIDA, one of Scott’s replacements Felicia Finley was also a hoot, that show was the best overall Disney offering imho, The Lion King production notwithstanding, but the cartoon translations have been hollow, INCLUDING Frozen. A bore! It’s not “amazing”, whoever says “amazing” is not to be trusted.

How does Denzel Iceman compare to Forrest Hughie in awfulness?

"Hughie" is only about an hour; "Iceman" is like 4 times as long.

WTF is going on over at Frozen? Between Patsy Murin having her 19th nervous breakdown and Caissie Levy apparently dying of consumption, it sounds like the better job to have is understudy.

Naked Real Estate Agents Singing! The sequel!

All you need to know about FROZEN is found in that photo above of Patti M’s cray cray eyes. Exhausting dealing with her ups and downs and Cassie’s fragile throat. A panic!

What exactly is the big deal about actors becoming real estate agents? There's a hell of a lot of people looking for real estate in NYC than there are people looking for triple threats. If they're a former actor they are likely pretty and can pretend to be gregarious. Isn't that the definition of a real estate agent?

Just that quite a few of them appeared in naked plays. Do you bring that up if you use them as agents? Btw, is is possible to still be an actor and sell real estate or is the combination too time consuming?

Wow, the Drama Desks were even more anemic than the OCCs. This is a worse season than when Starmites was nominated for several awards just to fill categories.

LMAO at Tina Fey's husband not getting any nominations anywhere.

R261, the Fey family deserves it for her single-handedly and egregiously reviving decades-deceased gay and black minstrelsy on two television shows, utilizing Broadway people as their useful-idiots: see Cheyenne Jackson and most cringeworthy, Tituss Burgess. Now they can come in and sweep our awards on their first try? I don’t THINK SO. Our industry is rife with gays and African Americans, whom Tina Fey clearly has demonstrated over several YEARS are just fodder for her condescending derision.

Frozen got, well, frozen out. And weird how few nominations MFL got. And Harry Potter got a bunch of nominations, but not best play?

Are the Drama Desk Award nominations a result of producers cutting the lists of comps for lesser award voters? Someone I know vaguely votes in one of these non-Tony things (I forget which) and was saying Broadway producers have become very stingy about giving her seats and when she does get offered it's usually one ticket on a specific day with no wiggle room and that if you don't respond at once you miss it. She said she flat up did not get offered Dolly or Hamilton; and I wonder if Frozen, suspecting to be a HOT ticket just didn't invite...

Looking at the Drama Desk nominations really brings home what a dismal season this was. Is it the worst in recent memory?

Those nominations are a joke. I'd be happy to be snubbed.

Frozen must be doing much less business than they expected, their new ad campaign highlights "You can see it now, tickets are availiable!"

The Iceman and Denzel verdict is already in with no Drama Desk or Outer Critics noms (other than for Morse)

So Alyssa Fox replaced Caissie Levy mid show. And then had some ratchet bargain-basement dress to wear for act two because clearly the producers have not had the time on money to build her the pant suit that Caissie wears. Booooo.

Girl, why don’t you see Frozen before you start with your snarky comments ? You know your ass is sitting for the DVD watching the movie on a loop eating Dove bars.

[quote] You know your ass is sitting for the DVD watching the movie on a loop eating Dove bars.

Thomas Schumacher, don't you have some people to sexually harass?

R270 is Patzi Moorin typing in the fetal position between gulps of her chilled Chardonnay n’ Wellbutrin shake.

[quote]Girl, why don’t you see Frozen before you start with your snarky comments ? You know your ass is sitting for the DVD watching the movie on a loop eating Dove bars.

Actually the Queens here are waiting for the bootleg and then they can say they saw the show. Well most of it, and lot of the filmographers shoes as he drops the camera to applaud.

Patti Murin is 2018's Jana Schneider

LaChanse nominated ? Huh? WTF.

The Drama Desk nominations made me laugh this morning. Some serious shade was tossed out, and rightfully so. And no, producers doing this or that don't factor so much into these, cause the DD nominating committee is small.

None of the Best Play nominees are or were on Broadway. HARRY POTTY rightfully not nominated.

SPONGEBOB not nominated for score despite all its other nominations, and in a year in which musicals are dire. MEAN GIRLS the same. Translation: Even in these so-so shows, the scores suck.

Lauren Ambrose, Denzel Washington not nominated. ICEMAN got what it deserves: almost nada.

Neither of the FROZEN ladies nominated. FROZEN almost totally ignored. MARGARITAVILLE was. LaChanze reps SUMMER.

Denise Gough nominated for PEOPLE, PLACES, THINGS but not AiA.

Only one of those silly HARRY POTTY actors nominated, and, thankfully, the right one.

Only major DD omission, IMHO: Seth Numrich from TRAVESTIES

I am proud to say I have never seen FROZEN in any incarnation.

Oh r274, Jana Schneider......

Donna does Jana.....

I knew a few of those naked real estate brokers. They're pretty cute. I saw at least 2 of them naked in their shows. They were actually pretty talented too.

[quote] I knew a few of those naked real estate brokers. They're pretty cute. I saw at least 2 of them naked in their shows. They were actually pretty talented too.

Names or links. Thank you.

And the nominations for "music...!"

Patti Murin is 1966’s Neely O'Hara.

Call me Anna, r284......

In addition to Ambrose they went out of their way not to nominate Butz ... and then nominated Diana Rigg just to rub salt in it

That'll just make Sher announce Ambrose in "Funny Girl" again!

How did Once on this Island GET a nom for choreo and NOT GET a nom for direction? There's only one dance in the whole damn musical and yet the direction is outstanding. How did Carousel get an outstanding set nom when everyone comments on how its a poor facsimile of better Carousels?

Wow, Jana Schneider. Am I right in remembering that she gave acting up to become a combat photographer, and then, much later wound up homeless?

well, r288, I think Mr. Arden has more enemies in NYC than Mr. Davenport, which is impressive

Thats's not true, r290. Michael Arden's reputation in NY is golden.

Um, golden as in showers, R291.

At Wiki r289.....

Was Jerry Spring the Opera not eligible for the DD Awards?

Its score is legions better than most of what was heard this year, even with its endless profanities.

What's going with Sondheim's (I think...) pair of Bunuel one-acts?

Anyone in the Bay Area seen Berkeley Rep's production of Angels in America? This time around, Stephen Spinella's playing... Roy Cohn. Queer as Folk's Randy Harrison is Prior and Bob the Drag Queen is Belize.

I think Act II of the Bunuels is stalled.

Once on this Island choreo is awful. Looks like someone trying to get goat shit off their feet.

Way to stomp all over a subtle joke, r292.

That Wiki article on Jana Schneider is incomplete. There was a detailed article in, I think, US News and World report, that detailed how she was torn up by feeling she was responsible for her friend’s combat death. She slowly descended into mental illness, then homelessness. When the article was written, she had been confined to Bellevue. That was 2004, so who knows what happened to her since.

R290 lies. Michael Arden does not have a bad rep in NY.

Broadway wants Linda Eder back!!

[quote]Michael Arden does not have a bad rep in NY.

He clearly pissed off all the wrong people.

R302. No, it doesn't. Trust me. ...Really.

Is David Cromer the Tony front runner for Director of a Play for The Band’s Visit?

I was beaming like a tickled 2-year-old during much of George C. Wolfe’s revival of Eugene O’Neill’s behemoth barroom tragedy, which opened on Thursday night at the Bernard B. Jacobs Theater, with Denzel Washington more than earning his salary as its commanding star.

Can we have an intelligent, informed, spirited DL discussion, like we used to in the old days, sparked by R176 ? I agree that "the commercial theater has really changed radically in the last 6 or 7 years" but I can't really pinpoint all the ways or give examples of how drastically different it is. I think about shows from 15 years ago that simply wouldn't get on today.

And not just Broadway, off-Broadway too. Has the influx of more NFP work on Broadway helped?

What do people really want to see?

The theater is being killed by jukebox musicals and musicals based on movies, R307.

The base level of the “finished” product is killing the spine of Broadway as an artistic destination, the mediocre productions fuel its corrupted heart, but the entire body is nearing worthlessness.

I think the big changes in commercial theatre go back much farther than 6-7 years. In the eighties (thank you, Andrew Lloyd Webber and Cameron Mackintosh) the idea of the megamusical took hold. Add in the Disney effect of the nineties, and everything became a mad scramble to create a franchise.

It’s not a million miles from what happened in Hollywood in the late ‘70s and '80s.

The 'Iceman' reviews all seem glowing R307 The 'stars' now are mostly kinda shit.

Ben Brantley seems to be afraid to dislike anything these days. He must be very scared of losing his job by offending anyone.

Michael Arden definitely has enemies in the theater scene. Remember how the camera conveniently forgot where he sat when his named was called for his Spring Awakening Tony nomination?

R313 Well, to be fair, they probably assumed he was at the urinal at the time.

Thanks R314, I nearly peed myself laughing at that comment!

Brantley is a star fucker of the lowest kind. The kind no one would ever want to fuck.

Didn't Brantley LOVE that terrible Julia Roberts play?

Um, no, he certainly didn't. And it's a great play that she couldn't begin to navigate.

[quote]she had been confined to Bellevue.

Oh, darn. I wish I had known, I would have requested an adjoining suite!

Yeah, Cromer has Best Direction of a musical in the bag.

Has he given up drugs?

For all of 'The Band's Visit's artistic and commercial hit status, it's so odd that Cromer's name doesn't feel associated with it. You would think that after being the critical darling a decade ago (and then screwing it up), Cromer's team would be pushing it as David Cromer's HIT but in the community it's David Yazbek's hit- no one is talking about Cromer in association with it, which is frankly odd

True. After reading r320's post, I actually had to stop for a moment and try to remember what he’d directed this season. And I loved TBV.

[quote]I agree that "the commercial theater has really changed radically in the last 6 or 7 years" but I can't really pinpoint all the ways or give examples of how drastically different it is.

r307, I agree with you. I think part of it is economics. I see this in the off-Broadway community. New York used to have a thriving, interesting off-Broadway community. I now walk through Greenwich Village and look at all the places that were once theaters and now are something else. High rents drove all those small theaters out.

It's also the lack of real talent being produced. I look at the off-Broadway choices, which once included shows like Steel Magnolias, Other People's Money, Little Shop of Horrors, Nunsense, The Fantasticks and I don't see anything that equals these productions. It's the same with Broadway, but Broadway has always had to produce on a much higher scale. Broadway has sacrificed quality. Every show needs spectacle, every show needs a star, but there's nothing that touches the audience in these shows. Their PR machines make us think we're seeing good shows but we're not. Take Hamilton for example. The concept behind the show is interesting, but the music doesn't rise to the level of even mediocre shows of Broadway's Golden Age. The PR machines are leading us to believe that what we're seeing is great, but those who have a true artistic soul know that there's nothing satisfying in that show.

Idk the answer about Arden (other than that one of my friends hooked up with him in LA off Craigs List if you can believe it), but it's striking that Island keeps getting noms and he keeps not getting nommed for best director

R324 When was that? Wonder if Andy knows

Andy knows. They have threesomes.

Arden never had a bad reputation during his acting days, but he was highly emotional and very often extremely depressed, perhaps people remember the exhaustion dealing with his dark periods.

[quote]Arden (other than that one of my friends hooked up with him in LA off Craigs List

Now that Craigslist has shut down their personals listings, where does he look for hook ups?

R328-The Enquirer.

This comment below gave me pause given that most of what is Off Broadway now (Billy Crudup's solo play, ADMISSIONS, more or less anything at the Public) is infinitely superior to the titles named below, all of which, except for LITTLE SHOP, are glorified junk and have aged badly. (Who in heaven's name would hold up Steel Magnolias as evidence of artistic excellence???)

>> I look at the off-Broadway choices, which once included shows like Steel Magnolias, Other People's Money, Little Shop of Horrors, Nunsense, The Fantasticks and I don't see anything that equals these productions.

[quote] Um, no, he certainly didn't. And it's a great play that she couldn't begin to navigate.

"And before we go any further, I feel a strong need to confess something: My name is Ben, and I am a Juliaholic. Ms. Roberts, after all, is one of the few real movie stars — and I mean Movie Stars, like the kind MGM used to mint in the 1930's — to have come out of Hollywood in the last several decades."

Now let's ALL be surprised that Ben Brantley said nice things about a movie star in a production of Iceman that everyone says sucks.

Posters like R323 help me to continue to believe we live in a sane world.

Thank you R323-----

" Their PR machines make us think we're seeing good shows but we're not. Take Hamilton for example. The concept behind the show is interesting, but the music doesn't rise to the level of even mediocre shows of Broadway's Golden Age. The PR machines are leading us to believe that what we're seeing is great, but those who have a true artistic soul know that there's nothing satisfying in that show. "

AMAZING SHOW

[quote] The PR machines are leading us to believe that what we're seeing is great, but those who have a true artistic soul know that there's nothing satisfying in that show.

I agree with this 100% and I'd also add that because ticket prices are so absurd every show HAS to be an event. I wouldn't mind seeing a mediocre Broadway show for $30.

What do we know about Seth Numrich. I want his hole.

The ICEMAN review on Vulture was certainly NOT glowing.

I don’t mean to be a twit, really, but it’s ok for any ethnicity besides white to rap, right? Can someone educate me on why it’s not ridiculous for an Asian to rap, but somehow white people are culturally appropriating if they do? Love Hamilton and its novel approach to American history, but the wholesale buy-in to the idea that you’re only hip if you’re NOT white is one of the reasons we are besotted with this pernicious backlash that thrust Trump into office.

R336 has never heard of Eminem

R337, Eminem by race is disqualified to audition for Hamilton. The question is Broadway-centric. This is a theatre gossip page, TWAT.

[quote]all of which, except for LITTLE SHOP, are glorified junk and have aged badly. (Who in heaven's name would hold up Steel Magnolias as evidence of artistic excellence???)

Bitch, please! The stage production of Steel Magnolias gave us a movie that is still talked about on DL today. It may not be your personal taste, but it's not a junk play. And in the Trump era, theaters all across the US should be doing Other People's Money. The movie was shit, but the stage version is quite good. And The Fantasticks was so successful its original production ran off-Broadway for 42 fucking years. People who had seen it originally were able to bring their children and grandchildren to see it. Now THAT's a classic.

Who were these queens saying Ambrose was getting the Tony? Not happening.

[quote] Now let's ALL be surprised that Ben Brantley said nice things about a movie star in a production of Iceman that everyone says sucks.

but r331 almost all the reviews are raves except for NY Magazine/Vulture

Everyone I know has hated it but ONeill can be torture. So the critics this week raved for Stoppard and o"neill, playwrights that make mere mortals was to kill themselves.

[quote] So the critics this week raved for Stoppard and o"neill, playwrights that make mere mortals was to kill themselves.

I'm usually bored at Stoppard plays but I thought Travesties was fun; although I wasn't entirely sure what was happening all the time.

Is "The Real Thing" Stoppard's most accessible play? Or would it be something else? Most people don't like to have to do a lot of research before seeing a play.

What frustrates me about Hamilton's music is that it tries to be good and just messes up.

Take "It's Quiet Uptown." The song starts out really beautifully. "There are moment's that the words don't reach...." It doesn't matter what your ethnic background is, everyone can connect with the emotion of grief. It's universal.

But then he ruins the song by coming in with that whiny shit "Look at where we are Look at where we started I know I don't deserve you" and ruins the song.

If he had taken the time to properly craft the song, it could have been a strong song about handling grief and every diva from Barb Streisand to Adele would have wanted to record it. But we're left with a song whose middle is whatever is lower than dreck.

The Real Thing is by far Stoppard’s most accessible play. All the others are intellectual jerk-off sessions, in my opinion.

R330 Steel Magnolias may not be the best play ever written, but there's no denying its impact and beloved place within our culture at large, primarily via its film version but also by virtue of being in constant circulation in regional, stock, and community theatre. All that started with the play off-Broadway. What commercial off-Broadway show has had that impact lately?

Not only are the plays at the level of Driving Miss Daisy and How I Learned to Drive and Three Tall Women gone from off-Broadway, gone too are the small comedies that would run a year or two, make money, and then go on to a healthy afterlife in subsidiary productions: Sylvia, Breaking Legs, Over The River And Through The Woods all had commercial runs. Now, small comedies or dramas that once would have been off-Broadway do limited runs on Broadway with stars and that's that.

It feels like when shows like Art (1998-99) started being on Broadway regularly, that was the beginning of the trend which continues with Meteor Shower, Red, and God of Carnage, all of which would have been off-Broadway without question once upon a time. Once commercial off-Broadway stopped being the place for smaller shows and a certain type of star, that was a turning point that couldn't be assigned to any one moment in time. Commerical off-Broadway, it could be argued, never really recovered from 9/11. The good "product" has gone to limited runs in NFP seasons or on Broadway.

The festivals pour a lot of trial product into the marketplace. And as someone mentioned, spaces are an issue. Off-Broadway has become concentrated into midtown, whereas it used to be every neighborhood had a few little playhouses. Even the upper east side had its own set of theatres. What off-Broadway show in the past ten years could fill a 299 or 499 for any length of time, beyond Jersey Boys or Avenue Q or any of the shows that had Bway runs and then moved to New World?

Part of me wonders if the reason so many of the larger off-Broadway spaces are gone (Promenade, Union Square Theatre, Variety Arts, Century Center) is simply because there wasn't a regular stream of good shows with broad enough appeal to fill them.

The closing of the gap between the Broadway and off-Broadway ticket price is a factor too. How small would a show have to be to sustain on a rush ticket price (%30-40) or even a $50 ticket?

Does it seem that there are more Off-Broadway nonprofit "institutions" now (Playwrights, Rattlestick, Vineyard, Signature, New Group, Public) that have replaced the old Off-Broadway community? Even the Broadway nonprofits all have huge Off-Broadway presences.

We get it, r344. You make that same point, using the same song as an example, in almost every theatre thread.

Dinner With Friends, Wit, Marvin's Room, Tea at Five, Sight Unseen.....just some of the many commercial off-Broadway hits that would only be done on Broadway now with movie/TV stars in some over-bloated production and a set that had to perform some coup de theatre nonsense.

I know someone who has produced Off Off Broadway and he was telling me the costs of renting spaces and I was pretty floored. He said the June Havoc Theatre (which is usually empty) was $5K a week and you had to pay upfront AND you had to give a security deposit of 50%.

Thank you R346 for that insightful post.

And the reason R344 he didnt "take the time to properly craft the song" is because he shares a trait with his show: both have ADHD.

And R348-why not add something of your own to the discussion.??

R344 makes a great point no matter HOW many times he makes it.

R351 = R344

try again

Didn't Michael Arden get into a lot of trouble back when he starred in the pre-Broadway tryout of The Times They Are a Changin' and he was overheard in some diner trashing Twyla Tharp and the rest of the creative team?

If Lauren Ambrose isn’t winning best Actress in a Musical, who is? Katrina Lenk? Patti Murin or Caissie Levy? Hailey Kilgore from OOTI?

Jessie Mueller may not even be nominated.

It’s a very leak list.

Katrina.

I get the hype but not in comparison to Ambrose who has so much more to do and pulls it all off.

[QUOTE] The question is Broadway-centric.

Then why were you talking about cultural appropriation? And that whole thing you were blathering about white people not being considered hip leading to Trump - that was all just about Hamilton was it? So basically Trump was elected because non-white people rap in Hamilton?

It has very little to do with rap. Eliza is always played by a non-white person and she doesn't rap.

As now you should already know only whites have the "privilege" to culturally appropriate other groups of people while every other races play white characters or use white culture heritage just fine without anyone bats an eye.

a/k/a reverse racism.

[quote]The Real Thing is by far Stoppard’s most accessible play. All the others are intellectual jerk-off sessions, in my opinion.

Even ROSENCRANTZ AND GUILDENSTERN ARE DEAD, r345? Sure, it helps to have read HAMLET , but I didn't find anything intellectually inaccessible about it.

I don't think Arden has "enemies." I think the reason he may be getting passed over is more likely Ken Davenport who's projects aren't taken very seriously.

Also, lest we forget, DD and OCC mean nothing. Meet the average voter from either organization and you’ll know why they can’t be taken seriously.

I’m not personally a huge fan of OOTI, but Arden will certainly be getting a Tony nomination.

In the end, MFL will pull down the majority of Tonys. LCT is all-powerful, whether deserving or not. And in this case, I don't think they're very deserving at all.

[quote]If Lauren Ambrose isn’t winning best Actress in a Musical, who is? Katrina Lenk? Patti Murin or Caissie Levy? Hailey Kilgore from OOTI?

They always reward a star. None of the others are big enough names. Ambrose is a lock.

[quote]I don’t mean to be a twit, really, but it’s ok for any ethnicity besides white to rap, right? Can someone educate me on why it’s not ridiculous for an Asian to rap, but somehow white people are culturally appropriating if they do?

Is Hugh Jackman rapping the opening number in "The Greatest Showman" with an African-American accent considered cultural appropriation? Asking seriously. I'm surprised I haven't read or heard any comments on that. And I think this question is germane to this thread, as it's likely that movie will become a Broadway show sooner rather than later.

[QUOTE]I'm surprised I haven't read or heard any comments on that

Answered your own question there then

Did you ever eat a taco? Or dim sum? Or use shampoo?

Guess what? You've culturally appropriated!

You see how ridiculous this argument is?

There is no nation, no society, no culture in the history of Planet Earth that hasn't absorbed features of another's. That's what prompts understanding and brotherhood. Only in our pathetic, narcissistic era would any dimwit lay claim to originality or authenticity.

And while we're talking of dimwits, please stop defending amateurish schlock. It serves no purpose except to denigrate everyone, whereas good work makes everybody look good.

Boring! I’d rather have the Robbie Fairchild troll back.

Be careful of what you wish for, R369.

Thank you r345. Any play (like "Coast of Utopia") that requires page after page of program notes in order to follow what is happening on stage is a play that is badly written.

Robbie has an ENORMOUS head.

Michael Arden WAS nominated for an Outer Critics Circle award.

I was at a community theater production of "West Side Story" last night and got to wondering -- do they license the use of the new Spanish lyrics from the most recent Broadway revival?

Let's hope not. A more alienating and pointless revision there never was.

Nothing sounds more pathetic than a community theater production of West Side Story. Sorry for your loss.

No R172, just a guy that wishes about, isn't manly, one you do not want to sleep with. And really, not all males in theater are sissies. Don't you have any experience? And your constant use of saying posters are rejected by their betters, well, that shows us your life.

God, I want to sleep with Ethan Slater.

I think I'm going to learn a few song styling moves from Miss Lisa Kirk. I assume Lypsinka has them all down pat.

Ok so it looks like Lauren Ambrose, Tony Shalhoub, Glenda Jackson, Andrew Garfield (or Denzel) Nathan Lane, Laurie Metcalf (or Denise) for Tonys....

Patti Murin fucked herself with her personal day with Tony voters.

R380, sorry but I really don’t think Murin’s behavior would have anything to do with it. No one is going to feel motivated to give a Tony ton any actor in Frozen, that artless cash-grab.

Murin will get nominated but she never had a chance of winning. The other nominees will be Lenk, Kilgore, Ambrose, and probably one of the Mean Girls. R380, I’m thinking the opposite of you for leads and MFL and Bands Visit. I think Lenk and Hadden-Paton will win. I think supporting actor will go to one of their cast members. Either Norbert or Ariel stachel will win. I have no clue who will win supporting actress. It might be Lindsay Mendez. I hope not, because she seems very nice and does a fine job, but there are at least a hundred other actresses in New York who could have played the part just as well. There was nothing distinctive she brought to the role.

Patti Fuckin’ Murin Ruined Broadway!!!!!

Denzel ain't winning shit.

[quote]It’s a very leak list.

Leak? Did someone mention leak?

[quote]not in comparison to Ambrose who has so much more to do and pulls it all off.

Well, except for the singing. She manages to "fake" sounding like she has a legit soprano part of the time, but always loses it as she wobbles out of a high note. It's the worst-sung Liza in maybe forever. Only Audrey Hepburn's original tracks that were dumped in favor of Marni Nixon were worse.

[quote]They always reward a star.

Not always.

Ok hate to admit it but I found Katharine McPhee surprisingly good in Waitress, she cuts through those songs like butter and a better actress than SMASH led me to believe. Is this part of a permanent move to theatre? Or is she still failing at being a pop star?

re: Tony's what can seriously win beyond My Fair Lady? Mean Girls is true dreck, or is Tina Fey that connected?

Katrina Lenk's publicist deserves a bonus for how hard s/he is working in these threads

What makes you think Lenk's publicist is working these threads? There's not that much about her here. Lauren Ambrose, on the other hand, is all over the thread. Given the evidence of her reviews, and the evidence of hearing her singing the songs, it's a perfectly reasonable assumption that she won't be walking away in victory on Tony night.

[quote]Or is she still failing at being a pop star?

Katherine McPhee has been a regular on the CBS series "Scorpion" for the last four years.

The girl who plays Regina George in Mean Girls has gotten raves. Could she win Supporting?

Frozen can't be selling well. There's a flyer in today's Times and seats are available all over TodayTix.

I feel sorry for Kat McPhee because "Smash" was a hot mess. In Season 1, it was treated as a soap opera. They realized that wasn't working, added MORE characters and tried to pivot it to a musical drama which bombed. I think the lowest point was when they took the supremely talented Raza Jaffrey and made him do that Bollywood dream sequence. Either that or the episode where they had Liza propped up against the wall at Sardis. That scene should have been titled The Singing Mummy. But then again Bernadette rasping through her songs was painful to watch as well.

R386 Whilst that might be true technically, her singing was pleasant to my ears and I didn't find it remotely bothersome. So yes I would still happily give her the Tony.

The insert in the TImes is for Tony voters, idiot.

You have a charming way about you, R396.

"Whilst"??? What are you, one of the Brits in the show with her, r395?

[quote]where they had Liza propped up against the wall at Sardis. That scene should have been titled The Singing Mummy.

LOL!!

Fun fact-a shoot day on Smash had to be totally rejiggered because Liza was “indisposed.”

I love watching Denzel lose awards. He’s such a bitter cunt.

R398 I am a Brit yes but not in the show.

[quote] Fun fact-a shoot day on Smash had to be totally rejiggered because Liza was “indisposed.”

I don't totally remember the episode, but wasn't her involvement in that episode just lip synching to a song? Or did she actually have some dialogue?

If Lauren Ambrose and Andrew Garfield play along and prance through enough pre-Tony press events you can be sure they will win their Tonys.

So Liza played a drag queen on SMASH?

Taylor Louderman, who plays Regina in Mean Girls, has been ruled eligible in the Lead Actress category. She may get nominated (as she was in that category for the DD's, and maybe the OCCs too?), but she certainly won't win.

Liza did have a few lines in her Smash cameo (as herself), and lip-synching to a song demands coherence of timing, so...

[quote]I don't totally remember the episode, but wasn't her involvement in that episode just lip synching to a song? Or did she actually have some dialogue?

She had dialogue, yes, but there were too many S's. Ultimately, the producers brought in Donna Murphy to do a little re-looping and help clarify certain syllables.

Gee, r386, please tell us how many Elizas you've seen to be able to declare that she may be the worst one ever.

I'm not 386, but here goes.....Julie, Audrey, Nancy, Andreas, Errico, McCutcheon.

Bit shocked how many tickets there seem to be for Harry Potter this month and next month... I thought that after the reviews it would be impossible to get anything but premium, but almost all shows have the 'regular' priced $199 tickets available. Very odd

Maybe we all learned from that Hamilton thing that hype dont mean shit

Well no because regular priced Hamilton tickets are still unavailable for this and next month.

bought on the tail end of the road to hype

Maybe they need to put Bette Midler into Harry Potter

Maybe they need to give every ticket buyer a glossary.

R412 I'm pretty sure Hamilton's sales will be fine for a long time but if that's what you want to tell yourself, sure.

This ain't London, kids.

[quote]Maybe they need to put Bette Midler into Harry Potter

A Hocus Pocus-Harry Potter mashup would sell like gangbusters!

Apparently FROZEN is not selling well at all, the girls who loved and lived it are now just old enough to look down on it in that way girls just starting puberty and gay men of all ages do better than anyone else.

Aw. Right now on Have Gun Will Travel is the eternally lovely Miss Patricia Morison. She and fellow thespian Mr. Vincent Price are reduced to performing in.....a saloon. Throw in a bit of Shakespeare and Morey Amsterdam....amusing hijinx ensue.

I will never understand the appeal of the movie Frozen. Maybe people are finally waking up to how disjointed and unsatisfying the story is, now that they’ve grown inured to "Let It Go" (a song that, dramatically speaking, nullifies itself even as its being sung).

A GAME FOR THIS SATURDAY!!!

Okay fellow lovers of greatness in musicals, without looking, what show are we talking about?

" So new, so fresh, and so unassuming, even in its pretensions."

"Exuberantly defiant and the production explodes into every nook and cranny of the theater".

"the only new concept in musicals on Broadway in years and it's more fun than any other this season"

"dynamic score" that "blasts and soars", "

"not only a wildly enjoyable evening, but a thoroughly moral one."

"The show rejected every convention of Broadway, of traditional theatre in general, and of the American musical in specific.

And it was brilliant."

Well, look at Chicago / Hamilton this Tuesday in Chicago.... While I know the show has been running for a while there, its interesting to compare the Chicago run to the Chicago run of Wicked....

FROZEN the movie was all about Idina Menzel showing up in a princess movie and belting her face off about frozen fractals because fuck you, Kristin and fuck your two faced Republican appeasing bullshit and fuck you black husband and fuck you Hollywood with your young skinny tiny blonde fixation and your fucking traffic jams. While I suspect Kris and Bobby Lopez knew that all along, everyone else in Disney tried to spin it as a feminist tale about sisterly love and redemption. Elsa scared the pants off Mormon-moms while Caissie Levy in pants is downright comfy for even the most conservative and uptight Hamilton fearing theater-goer.

r421 Hair?

r421

Spongebob?

r421 Oklahoma?

Obviously Ankles Aweigh.

r421 SpongeBob

r421 Breakfast at Tiffany's

[quote]not only a wildly enjoyable evening, but a thoroughly moral one."

God, remind me to skip that one.

Did McCutcheon sound good in the theatre? Her vocals sound processed on the recording.

When she showed up, McCutcheon was good, especially the act one cockney material. But she wasn’t a trained stage actress (I don’t think) and she couldn’t really sustain her performance.

Here.

I believe McCutcheon went to stage school but I think she became a soap actress relatively young.

If McCutcheon could pull off the vocals, it makes me wonder if Sheridan Smith could do the same. Smith was wrong for Fanny Brice but she could certainly sing the score. McCutcheon was known for more chest focused singing as well, so perhaps has a soprano in there.

*perhaps Smith has a soprano in there.

FROZEN and MALIFICENT were all about Disney's determination to have their very own WICKED(s).

Curious to know how much the two films have grossed compared to WICKED's mega-millions.

Saw The Play That Goes Wrong last night. Missed it on my trip last summer. Got a TDF ticket, 2nd row Mezz, the place was quite crowded, even the balcony, with little pockets of empty sections here and there. I was surprised. I thought it would be gasping for air at this point.

The play isn't anywhere as funny or clever as it thinks it is. A lot of the jokes fall flat and some of the character motivation (especially by the two female characters) makes zero logical sense. Worst was the female stage manager having absolutely no idea what happens in the play so that she's utterly shocked at one point, yet earlier knows to anticipate a missing fireplace mantle in enough timing to get a bit of stage business taken care of. I enjoyed the show on the whole, but I wouldn't say I laughed more than a half dozen times, total.

I will say that the cast is busting their asses out there. I think the cast is full replacement at this point (and there was an understudy in last night), but they have their timing down perfectly and are serving the show much more than it deserves. The writers should get down and kiss their asses that they've made anything out of the dinner theater script.

R436, according to Box Office Mojo, Frozen made nearly $1.28 billion worldwide. Maleficent "only" made over $738.5 million. Here in the states, Frozen turned a tidy profit ($400.7 million on a $150 million budget). Maleficent at least broke even ($241.4 million on a $180 million budget).

[quote]some of the character motivation (especially by the two female characters) makes zero logical sense.

There were character motivations? I must have missed that.

The video at r433 is very much how I remember it. Was McCutcheon really cockney? Her body language and accent are so spot on. Usually the actress playing Eliza has to fudge the cockney accent and you really lose something. She really did feel like a pretender in her nice dresses with her 'perfect' vowels.

It’s also interesting to see how Nunn handled the ending.

McCutcheon is from Hackney (like Leona Lewis) so I think she counts as cockney.

I just got a vision of Annaleigh Asford as Eliza Doolittle... Ugh.

R 436

Wicked has grossed over a billion dollars on Broadway. I also remember vaguely that one of the producers admitted that worldwide it has grossed over 3.5 billion dollars. If Wicked were included in Universal's Box Office Mojo list it would be by far the biggest hit that studio has ever had.

Apparently The Lion King Musical has grossed over 7 billion dollars world wide for Disney. That is super fucking huge.

Also I don't know what Frozen made for Disney as a hit album and single. There appears to be an Elphaba effect as well -- it did well in English and in Verkaik's region (Germany) before steamrolling into being a huge Japanese hit as well.

[quote]It’s also interesting to see how Nunn handled the ending.

Nunn's ending made it clear that she would no longer be subservient to HIggins, without having her break the fourth wall and exit through the audience.

Do any British chorus boys/actors post here? I know broadway is fun for gossip, but so is west end. Any fun shenanigans going on across the pond?

[quote] There were character motivations? I must have missed that.

hahahaha. i was trying to not be specific because of spoilers.

[quote] Any fun shenanigans going on across the pond?

I guess you mean aside from Robbie and Ashley.

The whole cast of Dear Evan Hansen just won a daytime emmy.

Apparently Ben Platt and Rachel Bay Jones are both 2/3 the way to EGOT.

What? Why???

Please! Can we not waste so many posts on crap and focus instead on quality...in any department?

[QUOTE]Daytime Emmy Award for Outstanding Musical Performance in a Daytime Program

It actually sounds like an award someone would make up for a satirical bit, and yet...

Wonder how quickly he'll add "Emmy winner" to his social media bios

This award category is absurd.

How can someone be 2/3 of the way to an EGOT, which has 4 parts?

You mean they are 3/4 their way to the EGOT considering they have just the oscar to go

Ben Platt has an Emmy and

Kim Cattrall

Courteney Cox

Bernadette Peters

Patti LuPone

Jason Alexander

and DL fave Sigourney Weaver does not

That is astonishing.

Awards are meaningless.

I’ve always thought that Martine McCutcheon would have made the definitive Louise in Gypsy. Shame.

Martine McCutcheon still has a cherubic face. I bet she reads younger today on stage than Benanti did in the LuPone production.

Martine McCutcheon didn’t sing Eliza particularly well, but it was still better than Lauren Ambrose.

[quote]please tell us how many Elizas you've seen to be able to declare that she may be the worst one ever.

Okay, besides Martine M in London, I’ve seen every NYC Eliza since Christine Andreas. I’ve seen probably two or three regional productions, too, plus a video of the Australian one that Julie Andrews directed. But I really made the comment in relationship to Broadway/Hollywood. I’m sure there have been some women in community theatres or regionally who couldn’t pull off the vocals.

Wasn’t there a LONDON Gypsy in the works years ago with Martine as Louise and DL fave Maria Friedman as Rose.

I seem to remember a gossip column about it.

Friedman would have sang it well.

In terms of London Gypsys, there should have been a revival with Julia McKenzie.

R463 Imelda and I disagree, she nailed Rose perfectly

I'm sorry, but that is the dumbest fucking category for an Emmy I have ever heard of, even dumber than Best Web Series, considering Web Series DON'T AIR ON TELEVISION.

I agree about Imelda nailing it on stage, in contrast to the broadcast, but McKenzie is of a different generation. She wouldn't have prevented Imelda playing it. Tyne Daly was supposed to take it to London.

2/3 the way to an EGOT because they got a daytime emmy and apparently that counts. But not really.

I should have done Gypsy.

R466 Ahh gotcha, agree Julia would have been great

Stormy Daniels is London GYPSY

Besides Sondheim's misgivings about having Maria sing "it's alarming how charming I feel" in "I Feel Pretty", there's another glaring one when her friends sing to her "Which? What? Where? Whom?" "WHOM?" Even plenty of native English speakers don't even use the word "whom" instead of "who".

Just posted this on another thread. I'd forgotten it.

R462, I’d never heard that. I did hear that there were plans to have Tyne Daly do it in London but Operation Desert Storm kicked the dollar’s ass so bad it wasn’t financially viable. I also heard there was a plan to do it at the King’s Head pub with Nicola McAuluffe directed by Michael Cashman but they couldn’t get Arthur Laurents to agree to it. That would have been a fascinating venue.

Tyne Daly had her eye on doing the tv version. Then Bette Midler got wind of the project and the rest is history. Maybe someone listened to Tyne's singing and figured there was no way anyone could dub her singing voice.

I've heard Daly didn't sound too bad when starting the Gypsy tour pre-Broadway. With vocal rest, they probably could have put an acceptable recording together. I've heard that she doesn't sound bad on the Call Me Madam recording she did.

Could u imagine the 1964 GYPSY with Judy and Liza?

[quote]Could u imagine the 1964 GYPSY with Judy and Liza?

No, because Liza was never beautiful. Louise has to be enough of a looker that men want to watch her strip. Liza had that ugly nose and was flat as a board.

Gypsy was no Natalie Wood herself...

Fortunately, you aren’t a voter R395, and those who are are more discerning than you.

Neither Lauren Ambrose nor Andrew Garfield are winning Tonys for their forgettable, mediocre performances. There have been numerous times over the past years where Hollywood actors have been utterly ignored.

My impression is that post-openings, Carousel is experiencing much stronger word of mouth than MFL, at least among my friends in the theater. I'd love to see it take the Tony over MFL.

LCT and Bart Sher need to be knocked down several pegs. Scott Rudin, see what you can do about that, please.

Or, wouldn't it even be more fabulous if they split the votes and let Once on This Island win? I'm all for Tony upsets.

Did Kelli pass on MFL? Ambrose may be a Hollywood actress but she's not a name.

Why does Bart Sher need to be knocked down several pegs? He is known for being very kind and he does consistently excellent work in opera, plays and musicals. I just want to understand why he needs the knocking ?

Sorry, MFL is the horse to beat, the tragic Carousel is NOT a sleeper favorite.

R437,

Agreed. Saw PLAY THAT GOES WRONG for the second time this past week (having seen it in London), and yes, the two female characters are reduced to absurdities that make little to no sense, and, as a result, aren't really funny. Not a terrible play, and audiences clearly want and need a good laugh, and comedies are in rare supply these days on Broadway.

I thought LuPone was supposed to take GYPSY to London, too? What's the deal with never taking that show to London. Was Imelda blocking all the transfers to make sure UK audiences saw her first. I thought Imelda's overall production was sorta meh, but she was brilliant on stage and probably the best all around Rose I've seen. She sang with gusto, was funny, charming, scary, disturbing, and pathetic. She really brought it. Then, I saw the BBC broadcast...it's a completely different performance and I'd imagine Imelda is mortified that it's the performance that will be around forever. I think she was supposed to take it across the pond, but the negative responses from the BBC version seemed to stop that.

Yes, no one's ever done Gypsy in London before Imelda.

I will KILL you, r498 ! It's Gray!

Make that r487. But I may be coming for you too, r498...

It's funny how Chita was in talks to do it in London in the mid 60s. It's yet to happen that a young(ish) woman has played the role in a major production.

I hope Sutton isn't the next Rose. Or Audra.

Sara Ramirez might bring some of the real life Rose to it. Has Lea Delaria played it anywhere? And I mean as Rose, not Herbie.

Sutton will never be the next Audra LOL

Timothee Chalamet would be a good Louise.

[quote]Has Lea Delaria played it anywhere?

Lea doesn't play women very effectively.

[quote]Could u imagine the 1964 GYPSY with Judy and Liza?

Please. I have enough nightmares as it is.

It's important that the rhyme schemes and grammar be realistic in WSS because it's so realistic in the first place that Puerto Rican gang members and their girlfriends are singing and dancing all day long

r471, I think the "whom" was meant to be sung tongue in cheek.

Someone needs to replace most of the dialogue to WSS to get rid of Arthur’s invented “slang” which is very often corny. That’s why they’ve started including the Spanish in every production.

LuPone was supposed to take Gypsy to London, but she chose to do the HBO pilot ( a show sorta based on a Sondheimish character) that in the end HBO passed on. Arthur Laurents got pisssed at Patti (AGAIN) and Gypsy was off.

Interestingly, Bernadette’s Gypsy was supposed to start in London but came to Broadway first. I bet if it had gone as planned with London first, the kinks would have been worked out and Bernadette would have been less divisive by the time she came to Broadway.

Stritch was supposed to do Gypsy in London as well but financing fell through.

Actually, I don't think that's why Spanish was introduced. And I understood that it was ultimately dropped from the initial production. Don't know whether it remains an option.

Sam Mendes asked to do GYPSY in London with Patti. Arthur said no because he hated Patti at the time because she turned down doing his play. Arthur told Sam to use Bernadette. Then suddenly London was out and it was now going to Broadway instead. Arthur, of course, hated that production as he didn't direct it and when he and Patti made up, he diecided to do the show again as a summer Encores production. The rest as they say, is history.

R174 here you go you OLD humorless dummy.

R500: Queen of the snappy putdown.

r174 you really can't come up with a better insult than 'old'? you're an embarrassment to gay wit.

sorry I meant r500

^^^it's ok. You were probably so flustered. 😜

Oh, don't be so hard on poor R500; he seems a bit slow. It took him several hundred posts to come up with "OLD" and "dummy."

R505 ummm NO. I was blocked but now I'm back bitch. Curiosity killed the cat but satisfaction brought that fucker back.

Well, you are a force to be reckoned with, aren't you, r506?

It’s our resident incel Poppins Loon. Best to ignore and move on.

Nothing like getting a laugh from terrorizing the old queens of DL. It's just too easy! Haha. Y'all started it because you can't take a fucking joke.

I've never seen mary poppins. So there!

Miss Sally Adams requests the pleasure of your company.....

[quote]LuPone was supposed to take Gypsy to London, but she chose to do the HBO pilot ( a show sorta based on a Sondheimish character) that in the end HBO passed on.

I hadn't heard about that. Can you tell me about it?

The HBO series had a pilot, right? I wonder if it’ll ever be leaked.

It was about a Sondheim-esque composer/lyricist played, I think, by Norbert Leo Butz. I remember hearing was it featured a scene of him doing lines of coke off a WICKED Playbill. What I wouldn’t give to see this.

I would give the Poppins Loon to see this.

And La LuPone played a broadway diva. She gave an interview around this time saying Arthur was pissed at her again because everyone thought the show would have 8-10 episodes a season and that made a London Gypsy out of the question. Arthur gave an interview pre-feud saying London only wanted him and Patti, so it would have had a new Herbie and a new Louise.

Of course the series got shelved and LuPone lost out on both accounts.

In the HBO pilot Butz played a gay meth addict Broadway composer. Langella played his famous sculptor father. Hope Davis played his attorney sister. Linus Roache played her husband. Susan Sarandon played a Susan Stroman type director. Kathryn Bigelow directed it a few months after winning the Oscar and it STILL didn’t get picked up.

C'mon folks, there’s gotta be a copy of that HBO pilot floating around somewhere. Post it!!!

That pilot sounds fascinating. Did Norbert get naked? I've always thought he was kinda cute.

Lee Pace was in the HBO project as well

THE MIRACULOUS YEAR is the name of the HBO pilot, inspired by John Logan’s close friendship with Sondheim while they developed the SWEENEY TODD screenplay. Sondheim was apparently livid when he found out about the show, I believe through Patti. Also, Adam Guettel wrote all the original songs for the show-within-the-show. I have the script. It’s certainly better than SMASH or most of GLEE, although the humor was more of THE BIG C variety than the outlandish camp of the aforementioned series. And HBO pilots never, ever, ever leak so don’t get your hopes up.

Did Sondheim have reason to be afraid?

HBO also didn’t pick up a Scott Rudin-produced, Noah Baumbach-directed pilot of The Corrections based on a huge international best seller. Ewan McGregor, Chris Cooper and Dianne Wiest were its stars. And it STILL didn’t get picked up.

R521, I worked on the pilot for The Miraculous Year and there wasn’t a dungeon in it. There were, however, a few hustler characters in it. That guy with the great body in Priscilla...didn’t get cast as one of them because Rudin said he had a “clownface.”

Well, I NEVER!

I'm sure Sondheim was livid. He was always very protective of his private life, and I doubt he'd want to see the hustler angle on the small screen; while he did a lot of recreational drugging at one time I'd be surprised if he did meth or heroin, and I think he stopped nearly everything after the heart attack. I can't believe Adam Guettel would have been working on this and NOT told Sondheim about it.

Clownface but great dick

I don't see Norbert Leo Butz as a Sondheim prototype. To me, he always read working class Irish Catholic. If he was in Downton Abbey, he'd be playing the gardener or the sheep shearer.

D527, true, he played him more like Bobby Morse rather than Sondheim. But he was playing a promiscuous, gay, meth addict so HBO said no, thanks.

There have been several pilots that have been retooled, reshot and got the green light. Is there any chance that could happen? But put in an actor who can be believed as nerdy, Jewish intellectual?

Wow, the difference between how Tyne Daly sounds in that tape and how awful she sounds on the CMM CD is amazing. I guess she just doesn’t record well.

She sounds even better on the London Call Me Madam BBC broadcast, which was before she did it at Encores. She didn’t do an accent there, I wondered if that’s what tripped her up in NY, having to sing with that accent.

No, R529, not on HBO. Once they say no the decision is final.

R529, this never happens a decade later.

couldn't the pilot be shopped to other cable outlets?

There was a scene in the pilot where NLB character hosted a dinner party. Patti’s character thought she was opening an award closet only to find one of the waiters inside, naked and in a sling.

The scene ended with LuPone humorously walking into the closet and closing the door.

No, R533, that’s not how it works with HBO. Not if the pilot was shot already. It’s pretty amazing that work by both Kathryn Bigelow and Noah Baumbach will never see the light of day.

Delightful, and I can see LuPone playing that scene. Jesus, no wonder Sondheim was upset.

Maybe the HBO pilot was why LuPone didn't get to do Gypsy in London. Sondheim said, "I shall not be mocked!"

[quote]I can see LuPone playing that scene. Jesus, no wonder Sondheim was upset.

I think r534 was joking, but yeah, that would have been a fun scene.

Is the script online anywhere, I wonder.

R534 That isn't in the script.

But it should be!

That is the only portion of the script that actually exists.

(Until it is posted online.)

Just watched this.....

[QUOTE]But it should be!

Well something pretty close to that was in that Wesley Taylor web series he made. See Andrew Keenan Bolger in puppy play fetish gear and Gideon Glick strapped into a harness...as if you need to watch a web series to see that.

[Quote] put in an actor who can be believed as nerdy, Jewish intellectual?

That spunds like a job for James McArdle!

[quote]Just watched this.....

She must have been drinking before she went on because that's more over the top than what she did in the original performance. She didn't over-enunciate every word like she does in that clip. It's funny though that they kept all the same choreography. In the original, she high fives Stella, but since Stella isn't there, she has to high five the blonde woman.

I didn't know Follies was returning for a second run. I guess ImeldaGYPSY on Broadway is dead in the water.

In that clip she sounds like she's still doing Judy Garland, and it's awful.

Bennett was better in the broadcast. The broadcast was very well filmed, much better than that clip. I still didn't like her performance that much - too indebted to Garland - but I could admire much of its effectiveness.

I guess they'll do a cast recording for the second run.

[quote]In that clip she sounds like she's still doing Judy Garland, and it's awful.

That was always her specialty.

[quote] I guess they'll do a cast recording for the second run.

The cast recording was already done after the last performance.

As much as I thought Imelda was good, I wouldn't be disappointed to see someone else in the role in that production.

Thanks for the link. Cooke mentions taking it beyond the National. Are they hoping for a New York transfer?

I actually thought Imelda was one of the weaker links in the show. She was too "hard" as Sally. More fishwife than showgirl.

Tracie Bennett's Judy Garland was the sort of performance I would have expected from a third-rate drag queen appearing at a second-rate venue in Provincetown. She was awful.

II agree, R554. I certainly hope Renee Zellweger is a lot better.

Every time one of these “groundbreaking” performances from London is televised, it turns out to be dreck. “But it was better when I saw it in person!” Uh huh, sure.

Everything I know, I learned from Jim Bailey.

Imelda was "too hard" in Gypsy too. Screaming to the rafters and snarling all the way through the show.

Diana Rigg was amazing in Follies. So tall.

BAJOUR!

Too soon?

I thought the point of the promiscuous methhead composer was that it was based on Guettel not Sondheim

Guettel makes more sense ,at least in terms of the drugging.

Jim Bailey looks somewhat like Lorna Luft but he is so much closer to Garland than Tracie Bennett ever got.

But wasn’t the composer in the HBO pilot gay? That part would be Sondheim, not Guettel.

Maybe it was an amalgam.

[quote]Jim Bailey looks somewhat like Lorna Luft but he is so much closer to Garland than Tracie Bennett ever got.

I agree with you completely, 563. Tracie Bennett didn't act the role, she indicated it.

Could u imagine Judy Loves Sondheim. Like 1961 voice Garland singing, “Losing My Mind” “Send in the Clowns” “I’m Still Here” and “Not a Day Goes By”

Three and a half hours of soporific, wildly self-indulgent, pseudo-poetic rants about...well, I still don't know!

Shameless schtick and vaudeville with added Yiddish AND Hebrew to give it that old-timey Jewish flavor!

Endless scenes that seem to have some point of view regarding the earth, and heaven and Russia?!

[bold]Yup, an evening at Angels in America: Perestroika![/bold]

I really wanted to love it the way I did in 1994, but alas. Why was Andrew Garfield playing Prior Walter as Rita Hayworth/Ginger Grant? His reedy and shrill voice becomes a challenge after three hours, but god love him! Couldn't Nathan Lane at least TRY to go out on a character limb and really attempt to evoke Roy Cohn more? I mean he's pretty good, but just NOT Roy Cohn, a guy lots of people are old enough to actually remember! Lee Pace was spot on, I was impressed. The rest of the cast was "earnest". I actually liked the angel's wings, but wanted to pluck the character regardless, almost as annoying as that British bird puppet in The Lion King! Go AWAY!

In summation: I guess to have a good AIDS play, you need lots of AIDS....and we no longer have much. I knew AiA was 30% Kushner's pseudo-intellectual gibberish, but it is really more like 70%. He does keep chipping away at you until you give in to it all though, so props for that!

And now a brief chat with Miss Gray..............

Why didn't anyone warn me that PattiLu was on "Mom" this week?

Met Glenda Jackson yesterday, a very cool Dame.

This bitch IS jealous, r570.

Well R569 After you missed Cheno, we figured you didn't care?

If you're talking about Bennett, I don't think anyone has claimed she gave a groundbreaking performance. The number was effectively done in the cinema broadcast. It's verifiable.

Aa for Imelda, she was excellent on stage as Rose. There are bootlegs out there that reflect that.

You could search them out and decide for yourself but you'd rather "Sure, Jan" your way through the thread, I get it. I don't engage in it, but I get it.

I liked Sigrid Thornton as Judy in the Peter Allen biopic from a few years ago.

Dolores and Steve Allen. Funny how "Sabrina" seems like a female impersonator. Not so, tuxedoed Dot.

A London performance from 1978.

Dolores appears after 19:50 at r576 and after 26:11 at r576.

So R523, you said you worked on the pilot, do YOU think it was a great loss -it never seeing the light of day?

And what was the energy surrounding it? Did you enjoy the project? Was it inspiring to you? Or the opposite?

The script for The Miraculous Year is funny, but dry, his vice is booze, coke and twinks.

R567:

A VOICE IN THE WILDERNESS.

Angels was great for its time.

We've grown

But R579, did it have heart and a reason for being?

If it did, I believe it would have survived.

No?

Here's the most info on MIRACULOUS YEAR I could find.

R582 Gods that dialogue is corny as fuck, so overstated

Okay, I think I love this.

That "Miraculous Year" dialogue is pretty bad. I think I know why HBO didn't pick it up.

Nobody told me that Eddie Redmayne was going to be in that HBO project. Nobody told me!

[quote]Gods that dialogue is corny as fuck, so overstated

Yeah, they needed a few Datalounge posters to make that dialogue sing!

INT. TERRY’S TOWNHOUSE-BEDROOM - NIGHT Terry and Connor are fucking. Terry is panting for air, sweating, out of shape. He fumbles in a bedside drawer. Pulls out a bottle of poppers. Inhales wildly. Snorts and coughs. Connor is amused. Poppers. So old school.

It goes after Disney, Wicked and any popular show of that period, the characters are all hateful and TERRY is a grotesque, not fun.

He licks the playbill clean of cocaine.

TERRY Well, at least it’s not Disney.

He tosses the playbill into a basket with other “corrupt” shows: LES MIS, CATS, BEAUTY AND THE BEAST, MAMMA MIA, JERSEY BOYS, etc.

R589--and they thought HBO was going to take on Disney?

Well the description of Terry does sort of sound like Sondheim in his 40s.

Except Terry has a boyfriend played by Lee Pace.

A show needs characters

Doesn’t the person who keeps trying to tell us that SpongeBob is attractive realize we all have eyes, too?

Well, who was Sondheim's BF in the 70s? Maybe there's a resemblance to Lee Pace.

Lee Remick?

LOL. But 60s.

How did Sondheim meet his current boyfriend?

don't know, but he wasn't even born in the 60s.

IMDB says that "The Miraculous Year" has gotten 90 ratings. 90! How have 90 people been able to see it? (It/s only got 5.2)