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Do you believe there is an afterlife?

I got thinking about it today. Made a poll... decided lets just go yes or no, the thinking being even a 'well maybe' will be revealing.

For the sake of interesting discussion, lets list our reasons why.

I am not afraid to die, per se, because I don't believe in God, so no afterlife. If I did believe in God I would not be afraid to die because I think hell was made up to keep people in line (cue the chorus who would argue so was God.). I don't look forward to dying because that means this is it and there were a few things I wish I'd done differently. I sure wish I hadn't been born when we were hated so much. Also I know there will be things I wanted to know how they turned out and I won't because I will be dead.

by Anonymousreply 226April 29, 2018 8:26 PM

I can ASSURE YOU THERE IS AN AFTER-LIFE and I can assure you we do reincarnate.

by Anonymousreply 1April 21, 2018 9:59 PM

[quote]I got thinking about it today.

Gurl, you is deep!

by Anonymousreply 2April 21, 2018 10:00 PM

I said yes, but to clarify, I believe the only afterlife you get is the one that lives on in the minds of your surviving friends and acquaintances.

by Anonymousreply 3April 21, 2018 10:02 PM

Datalounge is the last place on earth to discuss this.

These Marys can't see beyond next week, let alone to the afterlife.

by Anonymousreply 4April 21, 2018 10:04 PM

You need to be incredibly shallow to think THIS is it and that there's nothing else and no reason for anything. My God!

by Anonymousreply 5April 21, 2018 10:06 PM

Why R5?

by Anonymousreply 6April 21, 2018 10:22 PM

I believe that everything emanates from a source and when you die, you simply return to it. Not strictly an afterlife, more just momentary unity and then oblivion.

by Anonymousreply 7April 21, 2018 10:40 PM

Sounds daunting.

by Anonymousreply 8April 21, 2018 10:42 PM

I'm curious about what everyone thinks regarding the ghosts people who work in hospitals and nursing homes often see. If it's residual energy, why doesn't that happen with everyone after they die (why aren't there billions of ghosts around)? And why isn't it constant, but instead the ghosts appear and disappear sporadically? If these ghosts are residual energy, you'd think they would just stay constant and slowly fade/disperse, rather than come and go like they do.

by Anonymousreply 9April 21, 2018 10:46 PM

Yes, although I wouldn’t call it an afterlife anymore. I think it’s concurrent with this, although in a different form or formlessness, with different ways of perceiving and interacting. Less material.

by Anonymousreply 10April 21, 2018 10:46 PM

I said "No" in the poll, but I do believe in ghosts so I'm confused. ha

by Anonymousreply 11April 21, 2018 10:51 PM

Full-on Four Last Things believer here.

by Anonymousreply 12April 21, 2018 10:51 PM

[Quote]Full-on Four Last Things believer here.

What does that mean R12?

by Anonymousreply 13April 21, 2018 11:14 PM

Never mind, I Googled! I thought it was a reference to a Mitch Albom book!!

by Anonymousreply 14April 21, 2018 11:16 PM

Okay, and another question, only directed to believers obviously: You hear of people seeing white/blue light leaving the body at the time of death... Why isn't this seen with every body that passes?

by Anonymousreply 15April 21, 2018 11:17 PM

r9 r15 you speak of the delusions of the mentally unstable. It's all nonsense.

by Anonymousreply 16April 21, 2018 11:20 PM

R16 You have reading comprehension issues as R15 covered that my questions clearly do not involve you.

by Anonymousreply 17April 21, 2018 11:25 PM

I would rather become a ghost and roam around town like in the 2008 movie: Ghost Town.

Now to the topic at hand, I don't think there is an after life.

by Anonymousreply 18April 21, 2018 11:29 PM

I’d like to be a Cenobite.

by Anonymousreply 19April 21, 2018 11:31 PM

Why would there be an "afterlife" OP? Was there a "beforelife" too?

by Anonymousreply 20April 21, 2018 11:35 PM

If anyone reading this has had a Near Death Experience I would love to hear about it.

by Anonymousreply 21April 21, 2018 11:36 PM

Yes. But I don't believe in God.

by Anonymousreply 22April 21, 2018 11:40 PM

I don't really know but I sure hope there is. I want some kind of justice for those who never get it in life or payback for the evil, like Trump and most of the GOP who get off on hurting the weakest among us and wild life and our planet and seem to just be rewarded more and more.

Even with animals some have a really good life and some such a tortured horrible one. Why? I can't stand that it's all just random with no reason.

What makes the most sense to me is reincarnation.

by Anonymousreply 23April 21, 2018 11:43 PM

There has to be an afterlife, there has to be aliens...this is how so many humans think. Never satisfied.

by Anonymousreply 24April 21, 2018 11:44 PM

I don't believe in an afterlife but I do recall that after my grandmother died I had a dream that she was back... at the foot of the bed and for an instant... and I asked her: how did you get here? And she said 'Jesus let me come.' She... there was an unnatural light about her.

I know all the explanations and I no longer think it was actual -n I mean a dream, obviously, but not a door opening... still it was so intense, so brief and thirty years later still so clear in my mind that it is one of the few small doubts I retain in the face of all sorts of credible evidence to the contrary.

by Anonymousreply 25April 21, 2018 11:45 PM

[Quote] I’d like to be a Cenobite.

Talk about ambition.

by Anonymousreply 26April 21, 2018 11:45 PM

[Quote]What makes the most sense to me is reincarnation.

It really makes me sad to think though of my grandparents and pets living other lives now and having no recollection of me... or to think of all the parents and lovers I've had in past lives who loved me dearly, and I them, whom I don't remember now.

by Anonymousreply 27April 21, 2018 11:48 PM

r19/r26 I want to be a cenotaph, at least I'll get flowers once a year.

by Anonymousreply 28April 22, 2018 12:01 AM

R23 - my thoughts exactly, but you said it better than me.

R26 - I've thought about that too so I understand how you feel. I just hope that I will cross path with them again.

by Anonymousreply 29April 22, 2018 12:08 AM

I used to believe in reincarnation but the older I get the more the universal conciessness makes sense. I think we’re all part of one energy that explains synchronicities and accurate past life meteorites. We’re sll parts of what you could call god or the universe and we become individuals on earth. That’s ho we can know what someone in else is thinking or how someone else lived.

by Anonymousreply 30April 22, 2018 12:11 AM

At the moment of your death, your mind is no longer confined by physical laws of time or space. That's eternity and it's only as finite as your soul would have it. Is your eternity spent settling scores and playing sado-masochistic games? Is it a reunion with everything one and everything you've known? Is it something deeper?

by Anonymousreply 31April 22, 2018 12:13 AM

This is an old joke but it was told to me by a priest when I was about 13.

A reporter was allowed to interview God in heaven. When he returned he was asked what God was like.

"Well guys, she's black."

by Anonymousreply 32April 22, 2018 12:16 AM

[Quote] I've thought about that too so I understand how you feel. I just hope that I will cross path with them again.

Good luck.

by Anonymousreply 33April 22, 2018 12:20 AM

I know there is something because when I was with a loved one at the time of their death I could actually feel their soul leave. It was actually our family dog and it’s strange it only happened with him because I loved him but I wasn’t the person he was closest too. My cat who I was very close to died a few years later and I didn’t feel the same thing but I figure I just was in a different head space. When our dog was put to sleep the whole family was with him and it was a lot of raw emotion. After my grandma who I was astanged from died I saw a shadow person in daylight. I was walking my dog and neither one of us felt threatened so I always thought it was her saying goodbye.

by Anonymousreply 34April 22, 2018 12:21 AM

I do. I haven't always believed so but I had some odd experiences, at least one synchronously shared with another living person, of spirits returning shortly. If another person hadn't witnessed the same phenomenon I'd attribute them as imaginative manifestations of private grief.

by Anonymousreply 35April 22, 2018 12:22 AM

All of us are in a constant state of flux, isolated in our own bodies but always interacting with people and “things”. We were alive as infants but we don’t consciously recall it; the lack of conscious memory doesn’t mean we weren’t alive then and it doesn’t mean that we aren’t always living with experiences from those days within us. If we live long enough to become senile and we don’t remember yesterday, that doesn’t mean we’re not alive. A lack of recall does not equate not existing. We can and do exist beyond our bodies and our minds. Our brains operate like antennas and switchboards that receive and focus information from among vastly more information that we tune out. We’re part of all of it.

by Anonymousreply 36April 22, 2018 12:31 AM

I didn’t realize there were so many wise people on DL

by Anonymousreply 37April 22, 2018 12:33 AM

[Quote] It was actually our family dog and it’s strange it only happened with him because I loved him but I wasn’t the person he was closest too. My cat who I was very close to died a few years later and I didn’t feel the same thing but I figure I just was in a different head space.

Okay, thank you for posting this because it's something I'm going through now. I had a beloved kitty pass a few years ago, and when the vets opened the front door of the house to leave with his body (after we had to let him go) I swear I could sense his little soul lift from his body and fly out of the house. He was an outdoor kitty, so it felt right that he was free again that way. I also got a few other signs from him in the following months.

Then last month I lost my other kitty, whom I've had the longest of any pet, and for lack of a better term was my "ride or die." But I didn't have that same spirit passing experience with her, and haven't felt like she's around anymore at all, and it really makes me sad. To make matters worse, she lived with my mom for her first two years, and my mom was close with her too, and out of the blue two weeks ago my mom said the same thing, that she hasn't felt like she's hung around at all like the others.

IDK, I'm happy she's moved on to somewhere better (I guess she didn't dilly dally about it!) but I kind of wish she'd give a little sign or something from the other side to let me know she's okay.

by Anonymousreply 38April 22, 2018 12:33 AM

Yes, I believe in life after death. Your soul leaves your body and goes into the next plane of existence.

Our life here is only one small part of our eternal journey.

by Anonymousreply 39April 22, 2018 12:34 AM

Follow the Light.

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by Anonymousreply 40April 22, 2018 12:35 AM

*******************

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by Anonymousreply 41April 22, 2018 12:38 AM

Fiddle faddle.

by Anonymousreply 42April 22, 2018 12:39 AM

I have to say I doubted there was one, but now I know there is. But I don’t think it is anything we can comprehend.

I also think in this society we are the opposite of the Victorians . They would discuss death endlessly and never discuss sex. We discuss sex endlessly, but never discuss death.

I have had two experiences where I felt something weird, that made me question.

My father died 6 months before my 40th birthday. I went on holiday for a night on my 40 th and when I came back I had a brief thought about why I hadn’t received a birthday card from my father , when everyone else had sent one. Then I remembered. I opened my cupboard to put my clothes I hadn’t used away and out fell a birthday card . It was a card my father had sent several years before, I had forgotten all about it. He had confused how old I was and the card said Happy 40th Bithday to my son from his Dad. I know coincidence, but I felt him then.

Two weeks ago one of my best friends died of breast cancer. I hadn’t known till 5 days before her death , it had come back. I rushed back to my home state and some precious moments with her. While I was there, her mother talked about how my friend wanted to be cremated and her ashes sprinkled on a particular mountain, so she could be part of it all. I didn’t say so at the time , but I remember thinking what a stupid idea, but of course said nothing. The next day she died.

That night I had a dream about a movie , that my friend and I loved , in which 3 Victorian school girls go missing on a mountain , never to be seen again. I woke up immediately and felt my friend say that moment I am part of it now, the mountain. Just at that second , my phone beeped. One of my other best friends had sent a podcast at that moment on the very movie. I dreamt. She was in another country 5000 miles away , 8 hour time difference. She wrote on the description that she hadn’t thought about the movie in years , but suddenly saw this podcast about the same obscure movie I had the dream about.

Listening to the podcast I listened to this pretentious wanker discuss all his thoughts on what happened to these three fictitious Victorian schoolgirls. But what shocked me was at the end of the podcast, the narrator used almost the exact words my friend’s mother had used about the girls being part of the mountain now and word for word it was almost the same as what her mother had said.

That night I had another dream in which I knew beyond doubt my friend was gone but was still there , a spirit . I just knew it. It is hard to explain but at that moment I became convinced that when we die our souls immediately leave our bodies. It is weird I know, but I am sure of it.

by Anonymousreply 43April 22, 2018 12:49 AM

Most religions are preoccupied with death and/or the afterlife, and many religions have very common spiritual artistic motifs—Christian churches have stained glass rose windows, Islamic art has intricate mosaic patterns that look similar to stained glass and church designs; Buddhists have intricate, ornate mandalas, and everyone from the Mayans and Aztecs to the aboriginal Australians and ancient Egyptians used similar design motifs, all of which relates to “sacred,” universal geometry found in nature. It’s not a coincidence. Many people who have had either spontaneous ecstatic experiences or near death experiences or advanced meditators who see visions or people who have used psychedelics experience a geometry-based reality that is alive and can’t be explained. I am convinced that that is a greater part of being that we simply can’t perceive as human beings under normal circumstances, but when people do, they record those visions because they are so profound and eternal. I don’t think it’s the “after” life, but I do think it’s the environment and way of being beyond this little materialist playground-classroom.

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by Anonymousreply 44April 22, 2018 12:55 AM

Christian church window

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by Anonymousreply 45April 22, 2018 12:58 AM

Islamic mosaic

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by Anonymousreply 46April 22, 2018 12:58 AM

Wow, thank you for sharing those experiences R43... and R44 that's interesting stuff.

by Anonymousreply 47April 22, 2018 1:00 AM

Sacred geometry spans many religions and is also commonly seen under the influences of ayahuasca, the so-called “vine of death” or “vine of the soul.” This is the language of the beyond/afterlife. And it is real.

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by Anonymousreply 48April 22, 2018 1:01 AM

Ancient Egypt

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by Anonymousreply 49April 22, 2018 1:02 AM

[quote]Our life here is only one small part of our eternal journey.

And babies that die? Animals that are homeless that get killed in traffic or by a human shooting them?

by Anonymousreply 50April 22, 2018 1:02 AM

Mayan. All related to the gods and afterlife.

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by Anonymousreply 51April 22, 2018 1:02 AM

Celtic knot/tree of life motif

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by Anonymousreply 52April 22, 2018 1:04 AM

Aboriginal “circles of life” motif.

OK, I’ll stop...

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by Anonymousreply 53April 22, 2018 1:06 AM

And then there’s all the stories that are shared in ancient cultures who never contacted each others.

by Anonymousreply 54April 22, 2018 1:06 AM

Here is a sound frequency transcribed into geometry.

Two quotes:

Nicola Tesla: “If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration.”, and Albert Einstein: “What we have called matter is energy, whose vibration has been so lowered as to be perceptible to the senses. There is no matter.”

Life is vibration, frequency, sound and light. That is what it is. It does exist in frequencies/wavelengths too fast/high to be contained within matter.

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by Anonymousreply 55April 22, 2018 1:14 AM

OP, do you believe there is a "before-life"? The universe is almost 14 billion years old, where the fuck have you been for the past 13.99999999 billion years? Cold storage?

by Anonymousreply 56April 22, 2018 1:17 AM

R56 You’ve always been here. You’re basically playing an endless series of adventure games. You’re just focused on this one right now because it is immersive, but all the ones you’ve played before (and after) are informing how you play this one, too.

by Anonymousreply 57April 22, 2018 1:19 AM

Never argue with a fool, people won't be able to tell the difference - Mark Twain

by Anonymousreply 58April 22, 2018 1:26 AM

Nature recycles everything, why not our souls?

by Anonymousreply 59April 22, 2018 1:28 AM

People like to believe that we are exceptional, one of a kind, and beyond nature, R59. We’re not like other things. The human condition is self-imposed suffering and self-superiority. So why would any universal natural law apply to us, too?

by Anonymousreply 60April 22, 2018 1:31 AM

So from the beginning of time what are there, maybe trillions of humans and animals who've died? I can't imagine all those just somewhere as souls. Reincarnation would take care of that problem. I think only when we've learned what our souls need to learn do we get to what most could consider an afterlife. I'll bet most living things have to come back a thousand times to learn what they need to learn. I think that might go for animals too. Like maybe a roach comes back as a higher life and eventually after maybe centuries a human being. I think we all started out as insects or maybe even germs. I think it goes pretty much regularly until we get to be human beings and that is when we really screw up. I mean a bug doesn't do anything bad. It doesn't mean to be scary and disgusting to most humans. A germ doesn't mean to kill anyone. Even a lion who kills to eat is only doing what it is meant to do. Only humans hurt and kill for sicko reasons.

by Anonymousreply 61April 22, 2018 1:37 AM

I read a book attributed to an Amazonian shaman, written by a translator. The shaman said that we are all human—including the jaguars, the anacondas and the vines of the jungle. That is his understanding of life. What he means is that all of us, no matter what form of life we take, regard ourselves and our kinds as the center of all life. We see everything that’s not like us as seondary to us. Yet we are all essentially the same essential beings, just in different forms and involved in different life stories. When the jaguar sees a human being, it sees an animal that may be a dangerous predator and may be dinner; it does not recognize the human being as important in the way the human being sees himself. Yet they are in a relationship with one another, each one the entire center of his world and each one’s own form arbitrary and a projection of how he views himself.

If you view the world this way, it takes care of the “are we reincarnated as human beings?” question. We’re all “human beings” in the sense that from a gecko to a poodle to a houseplant, we’re all the stars of our own life experiences. So how we come back is arbitrary. If your next or last experience is that of a flamingo, you couldn’t give a shit about air conditioning or Netflix or a retirement account.

by Anonymousreply 62April 22, 2018 1:45 AM

Oh dear god, I hope there's no after-life. Ugh. What a pain in the ass that would be.

by Anonymousreply 63April 22, 2018 1:53 AM

Why are we here in the first place if there is nothing that comes after death? I have had several experiences that proved to me that there is life after death of one sort or another (one of which was an "out of body" experience of which of course I won't elaborate here ) and it was sufficient to me that there is something "beyond ". I'm still apprehensive about death but I don't necessarily fear it although if I had terminal cancer I guess I would be thinking somewhat differently. I hope this made sense.

0.

by Anonymousreply 64April 22, 2018 1:54 AM

R63 What if this life IS your opportunity to slow down and rest?

by Anonymousreply 65April 22, 2018 1:55 AM

R64 I had a similar experience and I also am apprehensive about death—but it doesn’t matter at all because we can’t escape it.

by Anonymousreply 66April 22, 2018 1:57 AM

The belief in an afterlife is the height of Human conceit plain and simple.

by Anonymousreply 67April 22, 2018 1:59 AM

My thoughts almost precisely r66!

r64

by Anonymousreply 68April 22, 2018 2:02 AM

The Bible says so, so.

by Anonymousreply 69April 22, 2018 2:03 AM

There's no after-life. Period. It doesn't even make any sense. You are organic material. Everything dies. After your death will be just like before your birth: you won't exist. You won't KNOW whether you exist or not, because there will be no YOU to know it. You are your brain function. There is no "mind/body problem" because they're one in the same. There is ample evidence for all of this, and ZERO evidence for any after-life or perpetual, contiguous soul. Stop being in denial.

by Anonymousreply 70April 22, 2018 2:07 AM

Why is it conceit? I want to be judged and make up for bad things I've done. I've killed insects and rodents and the only reason I could was because I'm currently a human and bigger than they are and I could use chemicals and shit. It was not because for one second I thought I was better than them or have more a right to live in my apartment. It was because I was scared of them and disgusted by them. By that reasoning anyone I scare or disgust has the right to kill me. I knew what I was doing was wrong but I could not live with insects and mice. That's a sucky reason for taking innocent lives and I hope there is some way I can make it up. I have been angry with god and with family and said rotten things. I don't want to just get away with that. I want to pay and find a way to make it up. I'd rather be punished for things I did than for there to be nothing.

by Anonymousreply 71April 22, 2018 2:07 AM

Re: ghosts

There are some folks who do not cross over, usually willingly as they either are afraid of some kind of retribution or having to face someone or a situation again that they aren't ready to deal with. These people have no specialized heavenly omnipotent information for you, they know exactly what they knew the minute they died.

There are also a sort of residual energy that shows up as continuous film Loops. Such as the story of the house in Massachusetts, where the locked door would only be found opened on a certain day of the week, or seeing the same "ghost" going up the stairs as though Groundhog Day activity.

by Anonymousreply 72April 22, 2018 2:09 AM

R72 is making up shit, and parroting made-up shit they've been fed before. Ignorant stupidity like that is almost evil in the way it perpetuates itself in our society and in the minds of ignorant, gullible people.

We need to do a LOT better when it comes to education in this country, and in the world.

by Anonymousreply 73April 22, 2018 2:10 AM

I don't believe in any religion or their version of what happens after life. I believe when you die that your inter-being or soul if you wish, continues but in some form that we wouldn't recognize. Most likely there is a larger being that when we die our inter-being joins that larger being and we all become one. When a new person is born that inter-being for this new person comes from this larger groups of beings drawing from more than one of the inter-beings, sort of like a buffet. So you as an individual never comes back to life but new life is drawn from a multitude of inter-beings.

by Anonymousreply 74April 22, 2018 2:13 AM

[Quote]There are some folks who do not cross over, usually willingly as they either are afraid of some kind of retribution or having to face someone or a situation again that they aren't ready to deal with.

That stinks though because a lot of those ghosts are children, such as those who've died in house fires or were murdered. They should really be able to move on, although maybe their higher spirit/selves did.

by Anonymousreply 75April 22, 2018 2:16 AM

[quote]You need to be incredibly shallow to think THIS is it and that there's nothing else and no reason for anything. My God!

You have that backwards. The shallowness is in your narcissistic belief that your life means anything beyond now. Life continues after you and when you die, your clock is up. Life is for the living, not a corpse. Only humans are arrogant enough to believe that they're so important that they *must* exist after death. There's an ample supply of human beings. There's no needs for humans after death.

by Anonymousreply 76April 22, 2018 2:17 AM

The thought of an afterlife is such a comforting fairytale to so many people. They think after they die they will continue (how they can never explain) to live and will see all their dead loved ones again. Christians think they will get a new "glorified" body to replace the dead one and will be able to do things in their new heavenly body that they were unable to do while on earth. This is especially comforting to people who have had severe physical impairments like debilitating diseases or devastating injuries that have causes paralysis or blindness. But it's all just a fairytale. When the brain shuts down, experience and sense perception simply cease to be.

Stephen Hawking had a disease that rendered him immobile for most of his life but he had no delusions about being able to dance and play tennis in heaven. He said “I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers. That is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark.”

by Anonymousreply 77April 22, 2018 2:19 AM

The best thing about believing in an afterlife even if there isn't one: after you die, no one will be around to say, "You idiot, I told you so." There would just be blackness, no consciousness, and no jackals to harass you about the beliefs you clung to while you struggled on this Earth.

If belief in an After Life helps you get through This Life, then so be it.

by Anonymousreply 78April 22, 2018 2:31 AM

Cmon r73, lots of people all over the world have seen this shit. Too many and too widespread to be all lies.

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by Anonymousreply 79April 22, 2018 2:33 AM

The reason they say that religious people live longer and are healthier is specifically because they believe in things like this. Ignorance is in fact bliss. So believing there's something more amazing and ethereal after death, makes people calmer and happier.

by Anonymousreply 80April 22, 2018 2:34 AM

R79 engages in logical fallacy... but has zero facts or evidence to back up anything they claim.

by Anonymousreply 81April 22, 2018 2:36 AM

No afterlife. We're animals like all others, just with a more evolved brain. Our brains will die and thus ends our consciousness.

by Anonymousreply 82April 22, 2018 2:36 AM

What makes Stephen Hawking an authority on what happens? Nobody knows, so the point is moot.

by Anonymousreply 83April 22, 2018 2:39 AM

R81, So homosexuality IS a choice then?

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by Anonymousreply 84April 22, 2018 2:43 AM

I don’t think humans are capable of compr fending all that is out there.

by Anonymousreply 85April 22, 2018 2:44 AM

Clue number 1 that people who claim to believe in the "afterlife" don't actually believe in it: They don't want to die. Motherfucker, put your money where your mouth is, put on a blindfold and walk into oncoming traffic. Nuff said.

by Anonymousreply 86April 22, 2018 2:57 AM

"Nobody knows, so the point is moot."

People who can face reality DO know. When the brain dies, that's it. It's over. And no one, NO ONE, has ever been able to come up with an explanation on how you continue to "live" after you die. They can't come up with an explanation because there isn't one. They want the fairy tale.

by Anonymousreply 87April 22, 2018 2:57 AM

Does anyone else find the mandalas unappealing? They’re too busy and they dazzle my eyes. The afterlife needs some 90s minimalism. I don’t know if I want to be part of the whole again either...Where’s the fun in having no self expression/identity? All is one would be too claustrophobic for me. I wish we could just live forever, If our bodies didn’t wear out, it would be worth all the “suffering”. Well, that’s easy to say if you’re healthy, but honestly life is such a gift and beautiful. I don’t want to live in some weird plane of existence. I want the world I know, there’s so much to explore.

by Anonymousreply 88April 22, 2018 3:02 AM

Did you ever think that you get reincarnated, but you can pick any form and shapeshift? You’d be on the inside, and none of the newbies would know, but you’d keep it to yourself. Life would be a game of rich poor animal vegetable mineral male female beautiful ugly. You could finally get somewhere in life with all your previous knowledge. Seems possible, as some people have uncanny intuition/luck/intelligence.

by Anonymousreply 89April 22, 2018 3:09 AM

I just don't want there to be reincarnation. Once was bad enough!

by Anonymousreply 90April 22, 2018 3:09 AM

R87, Reality?! We have only scratched the surface...we have theories... but nobody really knows what’s beyond our solar system, the origin of man, consciousness. Until you can create the world, control it, have it all mapped out, know how every little bit works and why, there’s a HUGE question mark about whether the end is really the end. You can’t just say, well because afterlife theories are theories our body shuts off and our consciousness is gone. You won’t know either way until it happens. The problem with lack of evidence is that it’s probably so beyond our comprehension that it’s unexplainable in our current way of thought/communication/theory/logic. A completely new dimension/paradigm.

by Anonymousreply 91April 22, 2018 3:28 AM

Harry Houdini gave his wife a word for when he died. She went to numerous psychics and no one knew the word. There's no afterlife, no ghosts. It's all bullshit.

by Anonymousreply 92April 22, 2018 3:29 AM

There is a plane beyond the physical. We can’t comprehend it because we live in the physical, that’s all we know. Why are we so sure that we’re at the end of all scientific knowledge? Considering the age of the earth and history of Homo Sapiens, we’re not very far along. Knowledge continues to evolve, what we know now of the world may be laughed at years from now. All is arrogance.

Plato’s allegory of the cave. ‘Nuf said.

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by Anonymousreply 93April 22, 2018 3:42 AM

[quote]You can’t just say, well because afterlife theories are theories our body shuts off and our consciousness is gone.

The only thing provable in life is mathematics - everything else is theory based on probability. All available evidence tells us that consciousness is a result of brain function. Science tells us that the brain needs oxygen to survive, and when it doesn't get oxygen, brain cells die and cognitive function ceases. Drugs can be ingested which alters consciousness. You can get hit on the head with something heavy rendering you unconscious. All the available evidence tells us that that consciousness is biological.

What separates humans from other animals is our knowledge of our own impending doom. But like animals, we still have the instinctive need to stay alive. How do we deal with reconcile our survival instincts with the certain knowledge of our own deaths? We solve this conundrum by making shit up - I don't have to worry about death because death doesn't exist - it's just "shifting to a new plane of existence". That's not profound or enlightened - it's just your body processing its flight-or-fright need to stay alive.

But you're still going to die and your consciousness will fade away as your brain cells die. But you won't be around to know or care.

by Anonymousreply 94April 22, 2018 3:54 AM

The human obsession with a "soul" is at the root of all this afterlife talk.

That's why being around nature is important -- animals and plants live in and live for the moment. And when there are no more moments, that's the end for them. Or, when the end comes, there are no more moments for them.

That's how it is for humans too. Deal with it.

by Anonymousreply 95April 22, 2018 4:06 AM

Totally R67.

by Anonymousreply 96April 22, 2018 4:21 AM

[quote] I'd rather be punished for things I did than for there to be nothing.

Why not get started now, R71?

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by Anonymousreply 97April 22, 2018 4:27 AM

I don’t think you sit on a cloud and play a harp or in my case stay in the fiery pits of hell, but I do believe that there is something. That something doesn’t care how we think or feel or even has a consciousness. I don’t think I will be myself , when I die. I don’t believe I will see me consciously as my self again. But I do believe that there is something that occurs after we die.

I can’t explain it . I just know it. Two weeks ago , before my friend died, I wouldn’t have said it existed at all. But now I am sure the other way.

It is a stupid argument to say . If you weren’t afraid of death you would just off yourself now. Why ? You have things you love and people you want to be around. You have lived as you are for years and killing yourself can be painful and is horrible for everyone around you.

Why would you inflict pain willingly on everyone you love. You can still have fear of death. It can be horrible. Watching my friend in her last hours was awful. But being with her was one of the best things I have done.

I don’t think there is life after death , like we imagine it. But nor do I think we just are gone. The reason that frustrates me is that sometimes I wish I could rest forever after I am gone. The idea I become something is honestly frustrating to my laziness. But it Is what I believe.

by Anonymousreply 98April 22, 2018 4:39 AM

Yes, I KNOW there is an afterlife, I’ve had too many experiences that tell me there is. Unlike some, I don’t fear death at all. I do fear dying in a lot of physical pain, though. Two of my grandparents lingered, and suffered a lot. Two others died quickly.

by Anonymousreply 99April 22, 2018 5:00 AM

[R43] the film is Picnic at Hanging Rock

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by Anonymousreply 100April 22, 2018 5:11 AM

Omg r100 you are correct . I didn’t mention the film as I thought it would be to insignificant to Americans. But you are right :)

by Anonymousreply 101April 22, 2018 5:45 AM

Do you underestimate what Americans might know or care about, R101? I hope that isn't where you were coming from.

(P.S. Afterlife is absolutely real in my view. Like R99, I've had too many encounters to doubt it. All its forms/possibilities yet to be determined.)

by Anonymousreply 102April 22, 2018 7:25 AM

Religion is there so the poor don't kill the rich.

- Napoleon Bonaparte

by Anonymousreply 103April 22, 2018 7:39 AM

Alan Watts used to say, "You weren't born into the Universe. You were born out of the Universe."

What it was to be before we were born...so we are after we die.

by Anonymousreply 104April 22, 2018 7:52 AM

R43, it’s on TCM right now.

There are no coincidences.

by Anonymousreply 105April 22, 2018 8:25 AM

I believe in energy. When my dog died, and she was half of me, she appeared to me the next day, floating near a window. I was afraid to mention it to my husband but instead, he blurted it out to me after we got up in the morning. He said, "You won't believe what happened. Very early this morning, I somehow awakened to see her near the window, looking lovingly at me, and then she soon disappeared.". I assured him that I saw the same. It was her saying goodbye but I still feel her presence now and again. My Grandmother comes to me, too. I loved her so. Beautiful woman. In my dreams, mostly, but sometimes I can feel her near me. I don't know if the energy eventually burns out, but I hope it won't. I don't believe in heaven or hell but I do believe that those we loved can reach us, somehow.

by Anonymousreply 106April 22, 2018 8:51 AM

I do not believe in God or Satan, Heaven or Hell. But I do believe there is some realm of existence after the body dies. I believe the energy that keeps us alive moves on to a different plain of existence. Where or what I don't know. Does this energy keep some sort of physical form after the death of the host body? I don't know that either. In other words, I don't know, but I believe.

by Anonymousreply 107April 22, 2018 8:58 AM

Whether there is an afterlife, Heaven or Hell is completely irrelevant to the NOW. Live and enjoy every single second you have on this Earth because it's all too fleeting and over far too soon. After it's over, you will have Eternity to discover what, if anything, comes next.

by Anonymousreply 108April 22, 2018 9:40 AM

Living for the now is fine, but if believing in an afterlife gives a person comfort then they should not believe all they want.

by Anonymousreply 109April 22, 2018 9:45 AM

L'homme n'est qu'un roseau, le plus faible de la nature; mais c'est un roseau pensant. Il ne faut pas que l'univers entier s'arme pour l'écraser: une vapeur, une goutte d'eau, suffit pour le tuer. Mais, quand l'univers s'écraserait, l'homme serait encore plus noble que ce qui le tue, parce qu'il sait qu'il meurt, et l'avantage que l'univers a sur lui, l'univers n'en sait rien.

Toute notre dignité consiste donc en la pensée. C'est de là qu'il faut nous relever et non de l'espace et de la durée que nous ne saurions remplir. Travaillons donc à bien penser: voilà le principe de la morale.

Ce n'est point de l'espace que je dois chercher ma dignité, mais du règlement de ma pensée. Je n'aurai pas davantage en possédant des terres: par l'espace, l'univers me comprend et m'engloutit comme un point; par la pensée, je le comprends.

by Anonymousreply 110April 22, 2018 10:07 AM

[quote]Beautiful woman. In my dreams, mostly, but sometimes I can feel her near me.

Various people have come back to me too. I can smell them.

by Anonymousreply 111April 22, 2018 10:15 AM

Here is the translation of R110's post since I'm sure there are people here who do not speak French.

[quote] Man is only a reed, the weakest of nature; but it's a thinking reed. It is not necessary that the whole universe arms itself to crush it: a vapor, a drop of water, is enough to kill it. But when the universe crushes, man would be even more noble than what kills him, because he knows he is dying, and the advantage that the universe has over him, the universe does not. do not know anything about it.

All our dignity therefore consists of thought. It is from here that we must rise, not the space and the duration that we can not fulfill. Let us work to think well: here is the principle of morality.

It is not space that I must seek my dignity, but the regulation of my thought. I will not have more by owning lands: by space, the universe understands me and engulfs me like a point; by thought, I understand it.

by Anonymousreply 112April 22, 2018 10:18 AM

Well that fucked up, didn't it. Let's try again

[quote] Man is only a reed, the weakest of nature; but it's a thinking reed. It is not necessary that the whole universe arms itself to crush it: a vapor, a drop of water, is enough to kill it. But when the universe crushes, man would be even more noble than what kills him, because he knows he is dying, and the advantage that the universe has over him, the universe does not. do not know anything about it. * All our dignity therefore consists of thought. It is from here that we must rise, not the space and the duration that we can not fulfill. Let us work to think well: here is the principle of morality. * It is not space that I must seek my dignity, but the regulation of my thought. I will not have more by owning lands: by space, the universe understands me and engulfs me like a point; by thought, I understand it.

by Anonymousreply 113April 22, 2018 10:19 AM

What about the mentally challenged? Catholics are so silly.

by Anonymousreply 114April 22, 2018 10:24 AM

I answered Yes, but I'm not going to try to elaborate or justify something that I think is a very individual point of view.

by Anonymousreply 115April 22, 2018 10:38 AM

This is one of those things about which people choose a belief system or a non-belief system and then follow that foundation. It’s no different than the God question in that way.

Overall we are a science-oriented society and science tells us that as someone above wrote “organic matter decays,” and therefore death is death—we’re worm food and nothing more. (Of course, science offers more about nonphysical and energetic aspects of reality but popular science doesn’t discuss those as much.)

We’ve also inherited countless religious teachings and many people opt into those—heaven and hell, reincarnation, etc. You’re either rewarded or punished for what you did here. Except we see among churchgoers that many of them don’t believe that at all, since they choose to live the most morally bankrupt lives of all.

Mixed in are first-hand experiences that people swear by and which defy the ones above: people who’ve died physiologically and who came back and reported having been elsewhere that is more real than reality; people who have taken psychedelics and had identical experiences; people who see apparitions of their deceased loved ones (my dad saw his father in a bathroom at office just before he got the call that his father had died suddenly) or of strangers who seem to want attention. And we assume all this is the afterlife. And then there are parents whose young children say things like, “the last time I died, I was driving my car” or “I was here before a long time ago and everyone was wearing funny clothes.” If these are our experiences, we tend to believe what we know. If they are someone else’s, we tend not to believe them. What’s the point of arguing about it? I believe that prior/afterlives are a fallacy in that the timelines aren’t ordered from one to the next in forward motion, but enmeshed in layers that are not bound by time or space. But that’s such an uncommon belief that I don’t expect anyone to give it any credence at all. And that’s fine.

by Anonymousreply 116April 22, 2018 11:08 AM

“But when the universe crushes, man would be even more noble than what kills him, because he knows he is dying, and the advantage that the universe has over him, the universe does not.”

I don’t know whether to cry or to laugh or to roll my eyes. Why does man assume that only he knows he is dying? That is ridiculous. All manner or animals know it when they are dying. They may not know they are being walked to a slaughter, but they certainly understand when the end is imminent. Anyone who has ever had a pet should recognize this, whether that pet was a dying dog or a dying fish. We also assume that only we think. Only we think in the way that we think because it is relevant to us; that doesn’t mean other animals and even plants don’t think, and do so in ways that are incomprehensible to us. We are different, but human beings are not singularly exceptional and superior. Jesus.

by Anonymousreply 117April 22, 2018 11:13 AM

Tyrone gives the definitive answer.

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by Anonymousreply 118April 22, 2018 12:31 PM

If there is no memory of prior lives then it would be hard to see the evolutionary purpose of reincarnation; and without evolutionary purpose it is unlikely. Without an explanation of the mechanism by which reincarnation would work it is just magical thinking.

by Anonymousreply 119April 22, 2018 1:01 PM

[quote]Without an explanation of the mechanism by which reincarnation would work it is just magical thinking.

You're talking out of your penis, Mary. Go back to bed!

by Anonymousreply 120April 22, 2018 1:04 PM

[quote]If there is no memory of prior lives then it would be hard to see the evolutionary purpose of reincarnation; and without evolutionary purpose it is unlikely. Without an explanation of the mechanism by which reincarnation would work it is just magical thinking.

ohmigosh! BRAINS has arrived.

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by Anonymousreply 121April 22, 2018 1:05 PM

R119 “Evolutionary purpose” sounds a whole lot like “intelligent design,” as if we must be able to discern an ultimate intention that drives evolution rather than evolution working itself out over time. So that’s a bit of a paradox. Also, if you believe there’s an evolutionary purpose to life (presumably only on Earth, or known only here), then do you likewise ascribe that purpose to the dynamics of the entire universe?

Laws of nature and particularly mathematics are thought to be universal—so if you believe that life here has evolutionary purpose, then you should believe that celestial bodies have purpose, as well. In that scheme, we are tiny.

Consider a diatom in the ocean. Its life has purpose for it. When its life is extinguished, it becomes life-giving sustinence for other living things. Over eons, some lf its kind evolve into a more complex being, and then more and more complex. That wasn’t necessarily its “purpose,” but that is the effect of its life and other lives. Those lives were consumed and recycled into other material, living creatures. That is a literal description of reincarnation—to be in one body that is destroyed and then incorporated into another. It’s done constantly by eating and through other mechanisms. We’re fully integrated with the entire web of life, and this does occur in ways that retain a kind of memory. We hold memories of our recent ancestors in our DNA—that’s new science that would have been scoffed at 50 years ago. Most of us do not access specific day-to-day memories of past lives, but as long as history has existed, some people have said that they do recall memories from past lives, and we dismiss those memories. That’s another intetesting paradoxical paradigm: we always believe in the present that what limited understanding we have is the full and total explanation, and presently we do understand that DNA holds memories from ancestors’ life experiences in a code analogous to that of a computer, yet we refuse to believe that anyone’s recall of past lives could be real because that’s antiscientific. We ask whether reincarnation is possible but we reject all inklings of evidence of this so that we can say “I’ll believe it when I see evidence.”

by Anonymousreply 122April 22, 2018 1:49 PM

Some people have locked into scientific paradigms that are totally outdated; science is progressive, not blund to tradition. It used to be correct to say “there’s no scientific evidence that we carry on after death,” and “there’s no scientific evidence of life or consciousness beyond living things on this planet” or “only human beings are conscious; other animals and especially plants are soulless objects programmed to grow as part of a nonliving system.” All those paradigms are being challenged by science today, which has moved from material/biological/chemical/mechanical to quantum physical and is now looping back around to metaphysical, exploring consciousness, perception and how real or imagined our shared reality is.

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by Anonymousreply 123April 22, 2018 1:57 PM

Here’s how this tends to work: scientists have proclaimed that DNA can store ancestors’ memories, and so as we go forth in life we are a culmination of our parents’ life experiences. Many older adults will reject that. Young people will grow up knowing it as parts of their realities.

In the future, scientific investigation may show evidence that something that sounds ridiculous today proves to be true—for example, that “you are what you eat,” and that not only the material elements of the foods we eat affect us, but so do the life experiences of those foods, because consciousness transfers from one incarnation to another as it is consumed. New Age-y people have believed for some time that when we eat animals brought up in torturous conditions, we take the horrors of those creatures’ lives. Almost everyone in the US today will scoff at that, and yet there is enough commercial pressure on farmers to market humanely raised eggs and meat products. (Plants will be next. Being humane to plants includes not saturating them in toxic chemicals.)

I’m not pretending to know these things for certain, but they are my perceptions, however anyone receives them. I drank ayahuasca several times years ago and it absolutely changed my entire world view. Shamans believe that the plants communicate with them, literally. I could only understand that metaphorically until I consumed ayahuasca and found myself in the worldview-smashing experience of being taught by a vegetal intelligence. I am aware of how insane it sounds; it feels insane, too, but the experience is shared by many who do this. And after a while, I realized that the intelligence that was communcating with me did so through boiled remnants of dried, shredded plant matter. That is, the dead plant itself retained not only information, but an active, intelligent spirit that communicated while it was inside of my body. Once you experience this, you come away with an entirely different understanding of life. We are here, communicating constantly with an entire world, not only with other people. We are ignorant of all the relationships we have, but all of them affect us. It’s all alive, and we are adorably simpleminded creatures to think that only those who walk on two legs and who speak with their tongues in human-developed languages are evolved beings.

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by Anonymousreply 124April 22, 2018 2:10 PM

Yes there is an afterlife. You will pay for any evil you do. And i do think there might be a "heaven" for a select few souls that are truly good. A section not for any of the weirdos. I know it.

by Anonymousreply 125April 22, 2018 2:10 PM

I've only been talking to GOD, JESUS, and the holy spirit for the past 10 years and my life has never been so peaceful and magical. For real. I wasn't a believer prior. So.....

by Anonymousreply 126April 22, 2018 2:17 PM

It's fascinating, though, how close the vote is... like a presidential election or something...

by Anonymousreply 127April 22, 2018 2:20 PM

The early Christian Gnostic sects believed that human beings belong to three classes: the ignorant, the seeking and the knowing. The ignorant tend to hang onto whatever they are told and have no further intellectual curiosity. The seeking believe what they are taught but nevertheless maintain open minds. The knowing people’s intuitively understand that what we’re told is not necessarily reality, and they work all their lives to perceive what is hidden in plain sight but still accessible. I do believe this also describes our views of death. It’s fascinating that many people have what they’d consider to be supernatural or super-coincidental experiences, in isolation with no one around to influence them, and yet choose to believe naysayers rather than their own life experiences. That’s ignorance in action, choosing to believe someone’s words over your own experience.

by Anonymousreply 128April 22, 2018 2:27 PM

We are all divine energy. You simply return to that non physical state of being. Until you reincarnate. Which I believe we do over and over. Ever expanding. (You do not return as an ant once you have reached human form)

There is no heaven. Heaven, believe it or not, is on earth. And only we as individuals can create it for ourselves.

It makes me sad how so many of us believe that we are our brains. We are basically meat. Our bodies are. But our souls are not.

by Anonymousreply 129April 22, 2018 2:27 PM

Seriously, I dread the idea of reincarnation. Once is enough.

by Anonymousreply 130April 22, 2018 2:29 PM

R130. I simply have always known that this is what we are- You can plan your next life now you know. I think about it a lot. It can be so much better than this one. And you have the power to continually improve this one, thank god!

No one on DL is into mysticism so I keep my shit to myself generally.

I get so sad reading how people view their existence so I generally avoid these threads. Oh well/

by Anonymousreply 131April 22, 2018 2:33 PM

I sometimes wonder if what we do here determines if we go to mars or jupiter or saturn next to live. All i know is i wanna meet real kindred spirits and soul mates. New souls. I am so sick of the ones I've had to deal with. I have no interest reconnecting with my dead mother. Ugh. And no. I don't wanna come back here to earth. Hell no. I'm already bored and over it.

by Anonymousreply 132April 22, 2018 2:34 PM

Science now calls the gut “the second brain” because of all the neuroreceptors that have been discovered there. Most of us understand now that the gut is the environment that gives life to quadrillions of bacteria, fungi, and other life forms, and those interact with our bodies the way we interact with the planet. As above, so below, so within, so without.

We haven’t caught up to accepting yet that the gut influences consciousness and perceptions. It does.

And, known to all archaic civilizations but still undiscovered by us, the heart is much more than a pump. It is an anchor of our beings.

I mention this in the afterlife thread because it’s evidence of how little we have known and understood over the past 100 years, when we’ve felt that science has commonly understood the nature of reality. At any given time, people are confident about our understandings of reality. The notion that there’s no afterlife has been popular for a very short period of time, and it is a mass deception, and a peculiar one at that.

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by Anonymousreply 133April 22, 2018 2:34 PM

[quote]You can plan your next life now you know.

Then I plan to to be really rich and really thin.

by Anonymousreply 134April 22, 2018 2:38 PM

I can't stand people who only believe in science. My boyfriend is like that. I have learned from MY experiences. What I've seen. And trust me, god is real. My boyfriend has no experiences and only listens to what science and bill Maher say. He's pathetic. Use your own mind. Find out for yourself.

by Anonymousreply 135April 22, 2018 2:39 PM

Absolutely not. Wishful thinking.

by Anonymousreply 136April 22, 2018 2:41 PM

R134 I would bet that that isn’t your soul’s plan. Look at it this way: if you’re made to play a video game or a board game, and you can choose a child’s game or a mindless adult one like checkers or a challenging strategy-adventure game, which one do you choose?

When I was a kid, I always selected game play levels that were too hard for me, and then I would reset continually to lower levels that I could beat. Then I would do it over, but on a more difficult setting. I think we approach our lives the same way. From the distance of non-incarnation, we don’t want easy lives. We want the experience of “playing” an immersive, challenging life. Some people may just want to dabble, but many want a real challenge. And so we get a real challenge. Even in this life, we could choose to read books and watch movies about people who are wealthy, beautiful, healthy, comfortable and have no problems in life—but NO ONE will choose that because there’s no experience there. We need challenges and problems and consequences. Think about it. When people “have it all,” they inevitably self-destruct because we NEED problems or else there’s no point in playing this game.

by Anonymousreply 137April 22, 2018 2:45 PM

In one of my ayahuasca experiences, I ended up in a hellish void, suspended weightlessly with no limitations and no emotions. It was all raw data, like being integrated with a computer program. It felt as if I were there for months and I thought I would be there for eternity, and it was hell. Total isolation and no stimuli and nothing to interact with.

When I came back into my body and to Earth, I had PTSD for months, wondering if this is all a delusion made by some computer program and it could all dissolve in an instant. I decided that I want this world because of its limitations and its consequences and rules.

Immediately after the experience, I would jump up and down and feel ecstatic about the miracle of gravity. It reset my entire sense of life, and I felt like a young child again as I rediscovered things that I had once marvelled at or wondered about and then became used to.

Have you ever seen a baby (or a cat) get joy from pushing an object off a surface and watching it fall? It’s because they remember a place where there are no magical binding rules like this, and it’s joyful to play around on this planet.

by Anonymousreply 138April 22, 2018 2:52 PM

That's an interesting perspective R138.

If reincarnation is real, then maybe being born is like jumping back in the pool. You hang out in Heaven with Jesus/your God and everybody else for a spell, then say "Hey guys, I think I'm gonna go for another swim" and the whole things seems a little less serious on that side, because you know all the answers and that after your swim you'll be back in Heaven and everything will be okay.

Sort of like taking a weekend holiday maybe, during which you try new things and make new memories and learn a bit, and then come back and tell your friends all about it. And then maybe they decide they want to go on that holiday too.

by Anonymousreply 139April 22, 2018 3:33 PM

I didn’t believe in reincarnation but a few weeks ago I was in a park and was fascinated by this one bird constantly following another and then after about ten minutes of this they ended up flying away together. I thought maybe there’s something to reincarnation, after all.

by Anonymousreply 140April 22, 2018 3:45 PM

What on earth do two birds flying away together have to do with reincarnation, R140?

by Anonymousreply 141April 22, 2018 3:48 PM

Kind of like that, R139, yes. Except that when you’re “hanging out in heaven,” you *are* the ocean. You are part of an enormous, flowing body that holds everything and is everything, and you can interact with all those people you mention but you’re interacting with yourself. We do it here, too, but we don’t think of it that way. If you have ever felt someone sort of flow through you, felt like you’ve momentarily embodied someone and thought “that was a weird feeling,” then you’ve registered it.

And then, yes, you can “dive into the pool” (or leap out of the ocean, as it were) and experience life as a self-contained version. But I don’t believe, either, that this happens in an “and then this happened and then this happened” order. It’s all simultaneous. It’s just that when we take this form, part of the experience is that our vibrations slow down so much that they become heavy and slow and take physical/material form. Meanwhile, the oceanlike infinity that we are integrated with is moving through and around us at all times while we linger in this snapshot, lost in the moment. As we get older, our frequencies heighten and can’t form the scaffolding for matter anymore, we self-destruct and that snapshot that had captured our attention loses our attention, and it’s on with the flow. Yet we retain the memories, but not on a conscious level while we are distracted by each new story.

by Anonymousreply 142April 22, 2018 3:50 PM

You guys are just making up shit to help make you feel better about the fact you won't exist forever. It's kind of pathetic to witness.

by Anonymousreply 143April 22, 2018 3:51 PM

R143 You’re entitled to believe what you do. Why do you feel hostile toward people who have different beliefs? How does it affect you one way or another?

by Anonymousreply 144April 22, 2018 3:56 PM

Let's accept R143's feelings. And let's continue on! This thread is getting fun.

by Anonymousreply 145April 22, 2018 3:59 PM

Here’s a visual metaphor for one of those concepts.

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by Anonymousreply 146April 22, 2018 4:01 PM

R143, you're on a gay board and you're asking how other people's ridiculously stupid and wrong religious beliefs affect me?

ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS WITH THAT BULLSHIT?

by Anonymousreply 147April 22, 2018 4:10 PM

People live on after you die, so strictly speaking, yes, there is life after death and you are proof of it.

by Anonymousreply 148April 22, 2018 4:14 PM

Yes, dear R147. How do they affect you? And what does a gay board have to do with it? There’s nothing even remotely sexual or sociopolitical about this conversation. In fact, this conversation obliterates sociopolitical notions that have been used against gay people throughout history.

A wise woman once said...

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by Anonymousreply 149April 22, 2018 4:16 PM

R147 Are gay people only allowed to discuss or even think about porn, celebrity, shirtless men, whose plastic surgery is the most fucked up, and politics? I should have read the contract before I signed up.

by Anonymousreply 150April 22, 2018 4:23 PM

[Quote]part of the experience is that our vibrations slow down so much that they become heavy and slow and take physical/material form.

Interesting!

by Anonymousreply 151April 22, 2018 4:46 PM

R149 is truly clueless. Jesus.

by Anonymousreply 152April 22, 2018 4:50 PM

No, R151, it's fucking stupid.

pseudo-science poppycock. The ravings of an uneducated moron.

by Anonymousreply 153April 22, 2018 4:51 PM

Physicists:

“If quantum mechanics hasn’t profoundly shocked you, you haven’t understood it yet. Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real.” – Niels Bohr

“Despite the unrivaled empirical success of quantum theory, the very suggestion that it may be literally true as a description of nature is still greeted with cynicism, incomprehension and even anger.” (T. Folger, “Quantum Shmantum”; Discover 22:37-43, 2001)

(The Folger quote explains R152 / R153’s anger.)

“Get over it, and accept the inarguable conclusion. The universe is immaterial-mental and spiritual” (1) – Richard Conn Henry, Professor of Physics and Astronomy at Johns Hopkins University (quote taken from “the mental universe)

A fundamental conclusion of the new physics also acknowledges that the observer creates the reality. As observers, we are personally involved with the creation of our own reality. Physicists are being forced to admit that the universe is a “mental” construction. Pioneering physicist Sir James Jeans wrote: “The stream of knowledge is heading toward a non-mechanical reality; the universe begins to look more like a great thought than like a great machine. Mind no longer appears to be an accidental intruder into the realm of matter, we ought rather hail it as the creator and governor of the realm of matter. (R. C. Henry, “The Mental Universe”; Nature 436:29, 2005)

“If you want to know the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration.” – Nikola Tesla.

by Anonymousreply 154April 22, 2018 4:55 PM

no lol. There's no fucking "god" or afterlife. It's insane that people today still believe in that bullshit

by Anonymousreply 155April 22, 2018 4:56 PM

Looking at these numbers, I'm not sure the afterlife has a path to 270.

by Anonymousreply 156April 22, 2018 4:58 PM

R154 trying to imply that quantum mechanics is somehow supportive of reincarnation is completely untrue and deliberately misleading. There is zero evidence supporting reincarnation of which I am aware. I was going to say that these "vibration" theories were pseudo-science, but they don't even make it to that level. They are simply made-up fables to support unscientific beliefs.

by Anonymousreply 157April 22, 2018 5:33 PM

OK. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

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by Anonymousreply 158April 22, 2018 5:38 PM

This will incite rage, I know. And yet.

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by Anonymousreply 159April 22, 2018 5:40 PM

TUCKER: Well, I think it's very difficult to just map these cases onto a materialist understanding of reality. I mean, if physical matter, if the physical world is all there is, then I don't know how you can accept these cases and believe in them. But I think there are good reasons to think that consciousness can be considered a separate entity from physical reality. And in fact, some leading scientists in the past, like Max Planck, who's the father of quantum theory, said that he viewed consciousness as fundamental and that matter was derived from it. So in that case, it would mean that consciousness would not necessarily be dependent on a physical brain in order to survive, and could continue after the physical brain and after the body dies. In these cases, it seems - at least, on the face of it - that a consciousness has then become attached to a new brain, and has shown up as past life memories.

MARTIN: This may be a dumb question, but I'm going to ask it anyway. So does that mean - does a consciousness need to inhabit a body?

TUCKER: Well, we don't know, of course. But in a case like James Leininger - I mean, it was 50 years between lives. Now, who's to say he didn't inhabit another body in the meantime? But my guess would be no. Now, in this world, it may need to be in a physical body in order to be expressed; but it may well be that our brains are conduits for consciousness, but it is actually being created somewhere else.

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by Anonymousreply 160April 22, 2018 5:42 PM

Anyone who embraces the concept of theism of any kind is seriously deluded. We are born and we eventually die. The only thing that matters is what we do in between. Religion is a racket to control you and make you part with your money.

by Anonymousreply 161April 22, 2018 5:50 PM

Pseudo-scientific babble is not proof or evidence of an afterlife or reincarnation. There's no such thing as either one. Get over it. When you die, you're dead. There isn't anything more.

by Anonymousreply 162April 22, 2018 5:56 PM

Yes and no. For those who believe in one there is. For those who do not, like R162, there is not. Belief - an overwhelming power of consciousness, singularly directed, is the key.

by Anonymousreply 163April 22, 2018 6:00 PM

Serious questions: Why are you preoccupied with either proving it or disproving it? Why does suggesting that the unknown may not be your theory of what it may be make you angry? It’s unknown. It’s an unsolved mystery. Why does “no proof” in your mind equal “proof of nothingness”?

by Anonymousreply 164April 22, 2018 6:02 PM

Is it unsolved, R164? There is a culture on earth devoted to the science of the soul and has been for thousands of years. Many many treatises on the nature of the afterlife and how it affects this one are part of it. You can find 'proof' there, or you can experience it by dying and returning. There are lots of narratives around NDEs and it all depends, again, on what you choose to 'believe.'

by Anonymousreply 165April 22, 2018 6:05 PM

R165 Someone here is insistent that there is nothing after death because there is no conclusive evidence of a specific, consistent experience. That is a logical fallacy. Both sides should be able to agree that there is no conclusive evidence of consciousness after death and there is no conclusive evidence of nothingness after death. If the lack of memory from a past life is the argued evidence, then every forgotten moment must be considered a moment of non-existence by virtue of its absence—yet it is not.

by Anonymousreply 166April 22, 2018 6:08 PM

Ricky Gervais should be singled out for scorn for how obnoxious he is about God and the afterlife. The truth is he fucking doesn’t know and should shut the fuck up judging others on their beliefs.

by Anonymousreply 167April 22, 2018 6:09 PM

R167, he is speaking the truth...there is no god. He has every right to judge the dopes who believe in God and who directly or indirectly force their beliefs on everyone else. God is a fictional character. Fake and phony like Beyonce's lacefronts.

by Anonymousreply 168April 22, 2018 6:14 PM

Barbara Ehrenreich has a new book out called NATURAL CAUSES (have it on my hold list at the library, so haven't read it yet, but a review included the following quote, which I really like):

"You can think of death bitterly and with resignation, and take every possible measure to postpone it; or, more realistically, you can think of life as an interruption of an eternity of personal nonexistence, and see it as an opportunity to observe and interact with the living, ever-surprising world around us."

I also like William Blake's take on death: "I cannot think of death as more than the going out of one room and into another."

And finally, a few words from Whitman: "I exist as I am, that is enough. If no other in the world be aware I sit content. And if each and all be aware I set content. One world is aware, and by far the largest to me, and that is myself. And whether I come into my own today or in ten thousand or ten million years, I can cheerfully take it now, or with equal cheerfulness, I can wait."

by Anonymousreply 169April 22, 2018 6:15 PM

R166, And the inquiry into consciousness continues with quantum equivalencies and is, indeed, verifiable science. The photon/wave theory of light is revolutionary and not well understood because of the influence of the belief in the observer. What you believe will happen is what happens and the outcome changed according to the observer. The observer (you) is not separate from the subject observed. We are not separate from our beliefs or the material aspects of consciousness. The whole point of maintaining a neutral detachment to those material aspects is to realize this and stop the flow of energy that gathers the material of our physical selves. We are all energy, solidified, crystallized, and full of potential. Death does not stop the progress of that energy.

by Anonymousreply 170April 22, 2018 6:19 PM

R168 I’ve never understood morally superior atheists. Neil de Grasse Tyson articulates why in this video. If you believe in nothing based on nothing, then you have blind faith in nothing with no basis. If you believe in this adamantly and proselytize this belief, then all you have done is substituted the Church of Atheism for a god-based church. Can you be comfortable just accepting that some things are not provable and go on with your life without an emotional need to be righteous and superior to others? If not, you’re a devout religious fanatic with impossible to prove beliefs—even as an atheist.

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by Anonymousreply 171April 22, 2018 6:22 PM

No ghosts. No god. No afterlife. No reincarnation. We have just one life and that's all we are gonna get.

by Anonymousreply 172April 22, 2018 6:25 PM

The most spiritually authentic people I've met in life have all acknowledged they know nothing and they are too small to grasp the enormity of any universal design. I believe in that much.

by Anonymousreply 173April 22, 2018 6:27 PM

I'm pretty sure Patton Oswald is an atheist and he does a lot of comedy about religion, and Sky God and Sky Cake and whatnot. He makes valid points about how stupid people often act in the name of religion, but in his last tour he included a segment on how he was visiting his deceased wife's grave in the cemetery one day, which sort of begs the question of why he'd bother doing that if she's truly dead and gone, with no spirit to talk to.

by Anonymousreply 174April 22, 2018 6:29 PM

Can you choose not have an afterlife?

by Anonymousreply 175April 22, 2018 6:29 PM

You can 'choose' whatever you want. How that works out is beyond my knowledge to answer.

by Anonymousreply 176April 22, 2018 6:32 PM

Oswalt

by Anonymousreply 177April 22, 2018 6:44 PM

If the purpose of reincarnation is growth or betterment of the soul it would make sense that we would not remember past mistakes or evil deeds. I think the idea is you're back, you start from birth with a clean slate. Are you a better person this time? Do you treat others, including non human animals better? Are you not greedy this time. Do you feel less jealousy of others? Do you treat those who have less than you better, do you help them, give them respect...things like that. Of course if I already know when I touch a hot stove I get burned and I won't do it again. There would be no growth if we kept our old memories.

My guess if there is such a thing it takes some thousands of lives before their soul reaches what it needs to be to finally get to God or heaven or something good. Take someone like Trump. No way would he come back in his next life being what is needed. He is so far from that now it would take more lifetimes than we could count for someone like him, worse than even a mob hitman for he wants to and takes pleasure in badly hurting 10s of millions. Paul Ryan, same thing. A person who even as a child dreams of hurting the poor will come back nearly forever, probably eventually as someone living in a very poverty stricken area where he doesn't even have clean water. I think that is what true karma is, not something we ever get to see in our lives, good or bad karma.

by Anonymousreply 178April 22, 2018 7:46 PM

Little girl whose mother just died: I saw her!! I saw my mother wave at me at school, and then she disappeared! I was so sad and now I know that she is still alive and still around and she loves me. I feel so much better! I’m not sad anymore!

DataLounge gay: YOU DUMBASS LITTLE STUPID FUCK! That was your imagination! Your mother is ash, gone forever, nothing but dust. You make me sick you simpleton. And who told you your hair looks good like that?

by Anonymousreply 179April 22, 2018 7:54 PM

[quote]Can you choose not have an afterlife?

Yes. That's what John 3:16 is describing. If you accept Jesus there is everlasting life; if you do not then you experience nothing. You just cease to exist.

by Anonymousreply 180April 22, 2018 8:04 PM

Okay, I have to block this ridiculous thread. Why is there so many threads on this topic? There was another one recently.

by Anonymousreply 181April 22, 2018 8:29 PM

We are spiritual beings having a human experience.

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by Anonymousreply 182April 22, 2018 8:59 PM

Whenever there's a family problem, some days before it presents itself my Mom will have a dream of my late Dad. It's almost like a warning to watch out. It could be anything, like a serious illness in the family or a legal issue . Strange but true.

by Anonymousreply 183April 22, 2018 9:03 PM

"There is a plane beyond the physical."

And you know this how? Of course you don't "know" it. You just believe it. I guess you're one of the ones that want the fairy tale.

by Anonymousreply 184April 22, 2018 9:29 PM

R171: Amen.

by Anonymousreply 185April 22, 2018 10:37 PM

God is a spiteful little bitch to us nonbelievers. I’m getting older so I better start hedging my bets by sucking up to Him now so I don’t miss out. It’s a win win. If there is an afterlife I’ll experience it. If not I won’t know the difference anyway.

by Anonymousreply 186April 22, 2018 10:47 PM

But will I have a (working) dick, and will I get to fuck the guys I want to?

by Anonymousreply 187April 22, 2018 10:50 PM

[R167], he is speaking the truth...there is no god. He has every right to judge the dopes who believe in God and who directly or indirectly force their beliefs on everyone else. God is a fictional character. Fake and phony like Beyonce's lacefronts.

—Anonymous

reply 168

You get your just as invested in making people believe your viewpoint aren’t you.? You are trying to force your beliefs on us. You are literally saying we are dumb and shouldn’t believe. That means your hypocrite.

Do yourself favour. If this thread posses you off ignore it.

by Anonymousreply 188April 22, 2018 11:26 PM

No, Gervais has no right to judge others on their beliefs. He doesn’t KNOW. And neither do you.

by Anonymousreply 189April 23, 2018 12:36 AM

That was meant for R168/shithead, if course.

by Anonymousreply 190April 23, 2018 12:37 AM

I don't believe in God but I do in reincarnation. I made the thread below a while ago. Thought some of you might be interested. Sorry for the grammartical error in the title.

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by Anonymousreply 191April 23, 2018 7:45 AM

An interesting reddit thread where posters shared stories of children remembering their past lives.

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by Anonymousreply 192April 23, 2018 7:59 AM

R188-190, I don't go around slaying people in the name of atheism, or force believers in theism to become atheists via bullying and intimidation. Believe in whatever you like. I just think theists are crazy to believe in God. Shithead? No, not by a long shot. Some people like yourself resort to name calling when you POV is challenged.

by Anonymousreply 193April 23, 2018 9:43 AM

See r193 I think you are projecting. Most of us have not said there is a God or mentioned Religion at all. Some have, but most haven’t.

What we have discussed is the possibility that something occurs after we die. None of us truly know what that is and if you are truly honest neither do you.

That is because we simply don’t know. But your educated guess is as good as anyone else’s.

I do believe something occurs . But so I go to God . No I think we become energy and that energy is filtered with everything else. But my guess is as good as yours.

by Anonymousreply 194April 23, 2018 10:18 AM

R193 Actually, you evidently did not notice, but you’re attempting to force people to become atheists through shaming and bullying and intimidation. You’re calling people who are not atheists “crazy,” thereby suggesting people with a different set of beliefs than yours are not sane, thereby effectively suggesting that a sane person would share your beliefs, which is in fact a form of intimidation and coercion.

by Anonymousreply 195April 23, 2018 10:44 AM

Unconscious is not the same as dead. Show me the proof when the brain dies there isn’t something else. Show me scientific proof there’s only the physical body. How can anyone living possibly know 100%? And yes, the same goes for the believers. But don’t you tell me because we have brain imaging or some study, that they know exactly what happens, you can’t even replicate it in a simulation experiment.

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by Anonymousreply 196April 23, 2018 2:14 PM

If there’s no afterlife, why are there living creatures? Why think or feel emotion? Why not just be a rock? There’s got to be a reason...

by Anonymousreply 197April 23, 2018 2:37 PM

I hate the mentality of doing good things for the sole purpose of 'acquiring points' to go to Heaven.

by Anonymousreply 198April 23, 2018 4:13 PM

r197 Instead of being a rock and wait for a reward or escape from your life you spend your one life you ever will have doing good for people and the planet for the sole reason of doing good and nothing else. There is no afterlife. There is no prizes for best life lived. There is no hell. There is nothing.

by Anonymousreply 199April 23, 2018 4:15 PM

Don’t state your opinions as facts, R199.

by Anonymousreply 200April 23, 2018 6:27 PM

Up thread someone posted a really interesting site concerning Near Death Experiences. Perusing it now. There's even one link called "NDE and gays"

by Anonymousreply 201April 23, 2018 6:31 PM

I had been saying to myself several times over the past few weeks that "sex is not supposed to be ugly" - the following excerpt is just a small portion of the sum Near Death Experience which this gay guy, Christian Andreason, claims to have occurred during his time in that place - interesting stuff:

11. What about sexually diverse people?

God loves gay people If this world was to ever find out just a small amount of what sexually diverse (gay) people are here to do on this planet, there would never be one single wisecrack or hurtful remark made ever again. Instead there would be great respect! People who speak disrespectful things about people of this orientation ... enact judgment, and do so from a place of unenlightenment, insecurity, ego and socially induced prejudice. Some may use mistranslated scriptures taught to them, not by the Holy Spirit ... but by fear-filled human beings. Many will choose to sustain a Divinely unsupported satanic hate-based rage against these children of God, rather than using Love to bring understanding and healing between both peoples. Christ said, THE GREATEST COMMANDMENT IS THAT WE ARE TO LOVE ONE ANOTHER! When people sling condemnation, judgment and bitterness at others, they are not practicing the great commandment. They are allowing their Souls to fall into darkness.

Return to top a. What were you told or shown about this issue?

When I got to Heaven, one of the first things I asked was about the very issue of bisexuality, as it had caused me a great deal of concern my whole life. My lady guide walked me to a room that had a large screen in it. On the screen, I saw two forms of Light conjoining with one another in the act of making Love. My guide then asked me to tell her which was the male and which was the female? I said, "I dunno!" She smiled at me and said it does not matter. She went on to say that the two Lights were what God saw when he looked upon us. She explained that God always sees us as our higher selves and that gender is a very temporary thing that will not be around forever. It was further explained to me that God himself is both a Mother essence and a Father essence to us, therefore; God fully understands our attractions for members of similar genders. It was told to me (or rather I was reminded) that there are no mistakes in the way each of us were made. God knew what each of us would be challenged and blessed with. We each act according to our heart (or developed Soul center) and as we mature Spiritually, we come up higher each time.

One other thing I was shown was a couple engaging in activities that focused on Lust rather than Love. My lady guide said that these individuals were in great spiritual duress and bringing upon themselves a life that would present much challenge. I saw that their Soul Lights began to dim significantly and there was a dark haze all about them. My lady guide then told me a time would come when these individuals would need to learn to come to God with their sexual selves, so that he could help them to use their sexuality in a more Loving way. More than likely, emotional or mental illness would emerge and help guide them to a more Loving path of expression. As I looked upon the figures, I sadly commented that lust was a major factor that involved many gay people. The lady smiled at me and explained that all fall into lust before we fully embrace the Light within ourselves. Later the lady also revealed to me that the two dimly beings in spiritual duress ... had been a married heterosexual couple.

by Anonymousreply 202April 24, 2018 12:27 PM

THeres no afterlife in the sense people usually mean it. There is “eternal” existence for the stuff that makes us up of course but that stuff doesn’t have the same consciousness we possess in our current forms.

by Anonymousreply 203April 24, 2018 12:35 PM

R202 left out the best part where a smiling pink unicorn surfed throu the air on a wave of glitter, while a luminescent rainbow of Starburst candies streamed from its ass.

by Anonymousreply 204April 25, 2018 10:19 AM

For any of you who have ever given the matter serious thought and reflection, I say this to you, and you alone: Should even the faintest spark of hope exist within you, then never forget that you always have a right of access to Source/Creator. Always. No pope, priest, pastor, muslim, evangelical, no written text can ever take that away from you. Remember always that the only person who can ever keep you away from "God" is YOU!

by Anonymousreply 205April 25, 2018 1:30 PM

Dr Eben Alexander is a neuroscientist who was adamant that all these individual accounts of Near Death Experience was just the result of the brain shutting down/dying etc. He didn't believe those who described them in such vivid detail, reaching into his big grab bag of clinical explanations. And then, he had one himself. Read about his account here:

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by Anonymousreply 206April 26, 2018 5:08 PM

Eben Alexander is absolutely full of shit. His "proof of heaven" was debunked in an Esquire article. From Wikipedia:

n a 2013 investigation of Alexander's story and medical background, Esquire magazine reported that before the publication of Proof of Heaven, Alexander had been terminated or suspended from multiple hospital positions, and had been the subject of several malpractice lawsuits, including at least two involving the alteration of medical records to cover up a medical error. He settled five malpractice suits in Virginia within a period of ten years.[10] The magazine also found what it claimed were discrepancies with regard to Alexander's version of events in the book. Among the discrepancies, according to an account of the Esquire article in Forbes, was that "Alexander writes that he slipped into the coma as a result of severe bacterial meningitis and had no higher brain activity, while a doctor who cared for him says the coma was medically induced and the patient was conscious, though hallucinating."

Alexander's book has been criticized by scientists, including Sam Harris who described Alexander's NDE account as "alarmingly unscientific," and that "everything – absolutely everything – in Alexander's account rests on repeated assertions that his visions of heaven occurred while his cerebral cortex was 'shut down', 'inactivated', 'completely shut down', 'totally offline', and 'stunned to complete inactivity'. The evidence he provides for this claim is not only inadequate – it suggests that he doesn't know anything about the relevant brain science."[15] Neurologist and writer Oliver Sacks agreed with Harris, saying that "to deny the possibility of any natural explanation for an NDE, as Dr. Alexander does, is more than unscientific – it is antiscientific."..."The one most plausible hypothesis in Dr. Alexander's case...is that his NDE occurred not during his coma, but as he was surfacing from the coma and his cortex was returning to full function. It is curious that he does not allow this obvious and natural explanation, but instead insists on a supernatural one."

by Anonymousreply 207April 26, 2018 11:07 PM

Believing in being after death doesn’t necessarily mean believing in rewards or punishments for how you lived. You can drive down a road in a car that breaks down and then get out and walk along the road without being punished or rewarded. You just travel differently.

by Anonymousreply 208April 26, 2018 11:14 PM

We are energy, we continue.

by Anonymousreply 209April 27, 2018 1:57 AM

People are flesh and blood, not "energy." When the brain dies, that's it. The person is just gone. A lot of people can't accept that. They don't have the courage to accept it.

by Anonymousreply 210April 27, 2018 2:24 AM

Thanks for that info R207, though it does nothing to dissuade me from my own belief - yes, R209, Tesla said everything is vibration, frequency, energy

by Anonymousreply 211April 27, 2018 11:34 AM

The Gnostics settled on a perfectly fine and reasonable way of looking at this debate: some people know, some people seek, some people are ignorant by nature. You can’t change nature and so you just discuss these things among people who understand them. Mathematicians know that average people can’t parse their language and so they just don’t go there with non-mathematicians. There is no point; we lay people don’t have the interest, even if it’s the most interesting information in the universe. So be it.

by Anonymousreply 212April 27, 2018 1:32 PM

Eben Alexander certainly did not go to Heaven but with all the money he made scamming Xtians he sure did build some semblance of paradise on earth for himself

by Anonymousreply 213April 28, 2018 2:24 AM

The morning after my father died, I woke up from 3 very firm taps on my shoulder. Looked to see if my husband was next to me trying to wake me, but he wasn’t in the bed. I understood it was my father, signaling that he would have my back, as it were. So yes, I do believe.

by Anonymousreply 214April 28, 2018 2:34 AM

"The morning after my father died, I woke up from 3 very firm taps on my shoulder. Looked to see if my husband was next to me trying to wake me, but he wasn’t in the bed. I understood it was my father, signaling that he would have my back, as it were. So yes, I do believe."

Hon, you were waking up from a dream. That's all it was. It wasn't your father. There's no afterlife. Sorry.

by Anonymousreply 215April 29, 2018 2:53 AM

You don’t know that, R215. Fuck you.

by Anonymousreply 216April 29, 2018 3:25 AM

Idiot at R216, do you really believe that a dead person can tap on your shoulder? If so, then you need serious professional help. You're delusional.

by Anonymousreply 217April 29, 2018 3:29 AM

R216 - and THAT'S how you handle THAT every time! Bravo!

by Anonymousreply 218April 29, 2018 9:54 AM

I'm with Bertrand Russell--Based on what we know now (and don't know), agnosticism is the only intellectually defensible position on this.

by Anonymousreply 219April 29, 2018 10:07 AM

I believe you r214. I had a similar experience. I wasn’t asleep. I was lying in a hospital bed and sensed my grandmother’s presence. I asked her to give me a sign if she was there. I felt the foot of the bed move 3 times, as if someone were pressing their hand on it.

I told my mother about it, and she smiled and told me my grandmother always did things in threes (the Trinity). I didn’t know that until my mother told me.

by Anonymousreply 220April 29, 2018 10:58 AM

[quote]...my grandmother always did things in threes (the Trinity).

So, she was a virgin then?

by Anonymousreply 221April 29, 2018 5:10 PM

R216, uhhh, yeah, because it’s true. You don’t know and anybody else who says any sort of afterlife doesn’t exist doesn’t know. Deal with the truth, bitch. It might help get you through life.

by Anonymousreply 222April 29, 2018 6:13 PM

Relax R216 and let me handle this one for you. Again, you don't know that R222 so FUCK YOU! haha

by Anonymousreply 223April 29, 2018 6:32 PM

No there isn't. You get one life, live to the fullest.

That being said heaven would bore me. Hell seems more interesting. But neither exists.

by Anonymousreply 224April 29, 2018 6:42 PM

R221, this was the default for religious Ukrainians of a certain age. When my grandmother was dying, she prayed constantly. I don’t know anyone who knew so many different prayers. She used to go to church every day. My mother was not particularly religious. We didn’t go to church growing up.

by Anonymousreply 225April 29, 2018 7:51 PM

You DON’t KNOW THAT, R224. Jesus, does someone have to bang your head up against a wall for you to get a clue?

by Anonymousreply 226April 29, 2018 8:26 PM
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