Grace Kelly Exposed As A Coldhearted Parent by Eldest Daughter

Grace Kelly always seemed angry about giving up her career. Plus her own dad was a cold SOB. So that adds up to not being a warm parent.

That the children spent more quality time with the help is pretty common in aristocratic and upper class households. This is non-newsworthy news.

Their upbringing sounds pretty standard for wealthy parents of that time. My brother and I were raised in the South by a lovely black woman. We loved and were in awe of our parents. But, our Lil was everything to us. No regrets here.

Albert was a cute child.....what happened!!!???!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

He got old. It happens to all of us.

R1 No one told Grace to give up her film career and move to a foreign country to be a "princess." These are all choices she made on her own.

Me on the other hand, I would have never given up my career to so called "Royalty." They can have that. I would have found a wealthy NYC banker to marry. That's how you do it.

Some say she was killed due to a dispute her husband was having with some very large south american depositors in some of the Monaco banks........

r6 your acting career doesn't guarantee stability like a royal marriage. A ruling prince is not going to suddenly lose it all, he has guaranteed free housing, abundant staff, a respectable position, and lifetime of fame. If she had kept her figure (and not have dies) she might have been able to return to work in the late 70s or 80s to give the Monarchy a modern jolt of energy,

She was a drunk.

r9 I love how women of her position love to drink, it falls right into their poor little rich girl image of themselves. I won't for a second believe that being a Princess is such a bad role, but then I wasn't spoiled with good looks and daddies money to hold me over all my life.

This situation is very typical for children of the rich. Even if Grace had wanted better relationships with her children, they would be "seen and not heard" in that kind of household. Then eventually off to boarding school. My mother grew up in the same kind of house and had no problems with it as an adult. Her son probably resents the way Grace and Princey's PR represented their home life.

Like mother, like daughter then?

Grace was an ice cold SLUT.

R6 "me on the other hand"

Oh, dear.

The kids are a mess. I’m sure part of it is the result of distant parents (par for the course at that time and place), partially the era they grew up (the 60s 70s saw the worlds moral compass go crazy), and part self-indulgent behavior. The Kelly family were not happy people. The drive to succeed overwhelmed normal human emotions. Probably mental illness buried in there too.

I never understood those who found her so incredibly beautiful. Angelina Jolie is a million times better looking.

That's probably why her daughter killed her in that crash.

Grace is beautiful in Rear Window. Stunning really.

Grace partied hard with celebs in France and Switzerland drinking and taking pills with the best of them. She loved quaaludes and reds.

True it was common for royals and the aristocracy to raise children in the manner Caroline sets out, but it seems Grace's depression and boozing wrecked the times she did interact with her children.

This is all pretty standard for kids of their class. I see pics of those kids with their parents, and plenty of them. We've all got our own childhood shit to contend with. Princess Caroline is worth somewhere around $1 Billion in her own right. I'd take that trade off any day. "Ah, Grace and Ranier. So nice to see you again. Look how I've grown! BTW, can we talk about my bank account since I have you here?"

Where did she get $1 Billion dollars from? Was it inherited? You said in her own right. So where did it come from?

I know very little about these people. I'm not a "Royalist" to say the least.

R8 But marrying a wealthy man does. It didn't necessarily have to be a "Prince." She was Grace Kelly and beautiful. She could have married anyone with money. Going the "Royal" is just not something I would have done.

Surprise surprise.

It's probably Ernst of Hanover's money, but I don't think it approaches $1B. Grace was a drunk and a pill-popper? So is, or at least was, Ernst. He nearly died of pancreatitis.

If Grace had married a rich man, she probably could have continued her career- at least until she aged out. I've read she was desperate to do a Hitchcock film, but was not allowed.

R20 The Grimaldis are ultra wealthy and they always have been. Monaco was a safe haven for the wealthy elite money wise/tax wise. The casinos brought in huge amounts of money. Aristotle Onassis owned Monaco during the 1950's until Ranier pulled some sly meneuvers and started raking in all the dough for himself. The other princess, her sister Stephanie is worth about $1 Billion as well. Inherited.

I believe that was Marnie, r24.

I thought the Grimaldi's were in a rough patch when Grace married, hence the enormous dowry.

I fucking LOVE Marnie. I love Freudian dramas and Connery was so beautiful. It was no role for a princess, though.

She turned to fat surprisingly quickly.

Considering her drinking, it's amazing she looked as good as she did.

Caroline is married to Ernest of Hanover - they have a marriage of convenience, as he's got a stripper girlfriend he doesn't hide. His family is enormously wealthy - land, investments - he's worth about $5 billion

Sure, Ernst has his own loot and lots of it, but the two Grimaldi women still have about a Billion dollars a piece to themselves. Albert has 1 Billion as well. Seems it was all divvied up fair and square!

I'm still richer than all of these people.

She didn't get fat. Just googled a bunch of her pictures up to her death and she was not fat. Anyone have any fat pics of her?

R33 I think that person was just trolling and having fun.

Stephanie's 1 billion is inherited?

Oh, I thought she worked and earned it herself.

R35 Yes, it was her illustrious, highly lucrative, legendary singing career which earned her money. Hardee, har, har, har. Inherited.

Why did wealthy parents of children in the 50s, 60s, and 70s think children were best seen and not heard? Why did they treat their kids like playthings and leave them to “the help” to raise? A child needs a parent. Is this why we have so many disaffected sociopaths today?

The children have all been such miserable fuck-ups this is hardly a surprise. Caroline has stress-related allopecia and kept marrying inappropriate men; Albert has fathered children by multiple women he's not married to and has reportedly kept his current wife a prisoner of Monaco; Stephanie has used tons of drugs and ran away and joined the circus (literally).

Grace and Rainier both should never have married, and certainly not each other. They were lonely privileged children who both needed to be the center of attention and did not get along at all. They passed down their mutual misery to the children.

"Stephanie................ran away and joined the circus" HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. The tears are falling from my eyes. My stomach is hurting. Funny shit! Yes, I know it's absolutely TRUE which makes it even funnier! Let's hope that the circus career fared a lot better than the singing career before it fizzled out.

Grace was the Princess of East Falls and Ocean City, then Hollywood and then Monaco. She had three great chapters in her life. Why was an miserable?

I am now prettier than Stephanie.

Stephanie fell in love with the lion tamer! She not only ran away with the circus, but she dragged her kids along. You really don't hear anything at all about her kids, so I assume they turned out well. Didn't Caroline's sons go through a eurotrash phase clubbing, appearances in gossip columns, and getting into brawls?

Woa dude. That chick is 52 years old this year. That face tells a tale of hard living. Hope she cleaned up. She's the one who married the help, right? Had a few kids by the chauffeur.

Stephanie is a sweetheart unlike the other two. Bat shit but sweet.

It was obvious the Prince wanted a beautiful international movie star for a killer wedding and to prop up his casino theme park with a glamorous figurehead.

I'd have stayed in Hollywood making films and being William Holden's lover. Which she probably wished she had. Rainier was no oil painting. And Monaco nice to visit but you'd go nuts living there.

SANG IT GIRL! SANG DAT SONG, BABY! Whew! I gotz CHILLS!

r28 - Get up, Marnie, you're aching my leg.

Stephanie is not nice, she's a cunt. When she was in LA and dating Rob Lowe, her nickname was Princess Stuff-It- In-Me.

Don't believe trashy papers. Stephanie is a good egg whereas the other two are insufferable twits

Grace Kelly was nothing but shanty Irish with a pretty face. Her sister, Lizanne, cursed like a sailor in the finest restaurants in Philadelphia (1950s Philadelphia, not the hellhole of today).

I would prefer Monaco as my tax haven ove rSwitzerland. I like my trash where I can see it thanks very much, and not hidden in banks, in closets with skeletons or the inbred yokels. Give me a vulgar French casino any day.

I like a girl who cusses.

Well, everyone knows the deal about casinos. Never saw money look so clean! The wealthy are criminals like anyone else, but they just get away with it a lot more. I told my father that I couldn't possibly marry Susan Johnson because her father, Burt, was a criminal. Imagine my surprise when my own father retorted "We all are, Arthur."

Stephanie and Albert both speak English with a solid American accent. Caroline has always tried to make her English seem more cultured in a way many wealthy American ex-pats do.

But, R21, we don't all have the vast array of options that you do.

Oh please, aren't any of you aware of what I told Jonathan Dimbleby about MY parents?? Why don't you people pay attention to ME?

I WILL BE KING. DAMMIT, I WILL BE KING!!!!

R38 is right. Caroline was basically marrying her dad when she married Phillipe. Her dad didn't like him and his playboy ways and I remembered thinking what wasn't good enough for his daughter was good enough for his wife. Apparently, Grace was very hurt by his affairs and he wasn't discreet. Caroline should have married the the Rosollini boy. They made a beautiful couple when the dated. Stephanie's circus boyfriend was married at the time. She broke up that marriage. And Caroline got Alpolecia when she started fucking her best friend's husband and broke that marriage up. That was Ernst who she is married to in name only now. The parent's fucked up relationship did no favor for their kids. I wonder if Caroline is any better as a parent. Her current husband certainly could not be. He is known to be a bully and vulgar.

Her uncle was gay playwright George Kelly.

I like Marnie, too, R28. Some of the intentional artifice, like the huge painted ship at the end of the street where the childhood home is located, is kind of surreal.

Monaco Dearest.

Caroline was filthy rich to start with, as a Princess of Monaco , and she married one of the richest and most titled princes in Europe. Ernst August de Hanovre is in the succession line of most northern european countries, including England. She is a whore by the way. She fucked more dicks than her trashy sister, but with more discretion and better taste. Including hairy muscled beast Tennis champ Guillermo Vilas. Unlike her siblings she is a Royal Higness. HRH, princess of Monaco and Hanover. They are only HSH princes.

"Ernst August de Hanovre is in the succession line of most northern european countries, including England"

And as likely to get his alcoholic, inbred ass anywhere near any of those thrones as I am...

Still... 👸

Oh boo hoo.

r46 wait, that no talent Princess gets to pump out tacky pop songs but Grace Kelly wasn't allowed to act in movies? Seems stupid, even if these events occurred 20 years apart.

[quote] And Caroline got Alpolecia when she started fucking her best friend's husband and broke that marriage up.

Is that what dogs get... Alpolecia?

She's not THAT homely....

Princess Stephanie was an embarrassment for Monaco's court and a second hand embarrassment for the whole of France, Monaco and Italy when she started singing. She was mercylessly ridiculed, and I think the Prince let her do it for fear of more embarrassment. We all felt sorry for her, because she was in that car, but it still didn't excuse her shitty act. Then she started fucking the chauffeur, who was publicly cheating on her with a pron star, then she fucked the servants, then the lion tamer of the circus, then pretty much anyone. I think the consensus is that she is bipo = nympho.

[quote] She fucked more dicks than her trashy sister, but with more discretion and better taste. Including hairy muscled beast Tennis champ Guillermo Vilas.

You're not kidding. His body was unbelievable, especially for the standards of the day. He's now hideous looking, but in his day he was one of the hotest famous men alive.

Caroline gave up her muscle aficionado phase, but Stephanie has never left hers. All of Stephanie's boyfriends and husbands look like gay porn stars. I'm not sure where the girls get it from.

R37 I said the same thing. Some wealthy people shouldn't be allowed to pro-create and should be sterilized to make sure they can't.

Why have children if you're just going to pass them off to the help. Children need their parents love and affection. PERIOD!

I'm glad I've always had a great relationship with my mother. That's the most important parent anyways.

As a child of Irish German uptight Philadelphians, it’s not like she was going to be an emotionally available, loving mother. The kids should be grateful they had a nanny. Having been raised by one, I would take a nanny who was paid to care over my emotionally frozen, uncaring, needy mother any day.

Vilas was sex on legs. His hairy muscled chest dripping with sweat when he changed t-shirts between sets was a highlight of the 70's

R18

It's funny to think that Caroline married up with Ernst. I wonder if that was intentional.

R72 ? What ?

Ernst of Hanover's title ranks higher than the Monaco family even though they are the rulers of their country. Caroline takes precedence over her brother and sister in law. Interesting, that's all.

Well, Caroline was always the most charismatic, and when Rainier kicked the bucket, most people thought she would be the Reigning Princess of Monaco. But they follow the salic law. So it was Albert, who was universally considered gay. 100%. SURPRISE. He is in fact a pig pussy hound of epic proportions. So maybe it was her revenge. She was best childhood friends with Ernst. I don't know what's going on in that family, they are all sex addicts, including Grace. She is not bad looking for a woman over 60.

[quote] Vilas was sex on legs. His hairy muscled chest dripping with sweat when he changed t-shirts between sets was a highlight of the 70's

Sounds horrible, let me go log onto Pornhub and enjoy hours of limitless porn.

Babylon Monaco

Grace partied it up with the Burtons on their yacht where all types of spectacles occurred like Rachel Roberts getting shitfaced and removing her clothes to simulate sex.

Good times with her Hollywood friends.

R78, are you the poster who started a thread about Rachel Roberts recently ?

It's usually those Old Hollywood beauties with the "classy" images who end up with messed up home lives and kids. Look at Audrey Hepburn's sons fighting over $ and pimping her image to tasteless commercials.

r78 Interestingly, it is Elizabeth Taylor, vilified for her vulgarity and excesses, whose kids AND grand kids all turn out bitterness-free and well-mannered.

That Gracie was a pistol. Hell, she'd come into the hair department after one of her wild weekends, smelling of booze and cigs. Lord, we'd have to wash her hair half-a-dozen times just to get all the jizz out.

Yup, a real pistol that one.

Grace was bff with Ava. Ava tells all in her autobio, including how Grace was fucking Clark in Africa, like, in the bushes. Gary Coop said that Grace was like a human fridge until you got her out of her panties, and then there was never a sluttiest slut. She also banged Jean Pierre Aumont, William Holden, Ray Milland Big Time, and JFK...

R80, don't forget Vivien, who was completely crazy, and a whore, a boozer and a hellraiser, and her Daughter Suzanne who led a perfectly quiet normal dignified life, and never said a word to the press about her mother ? Wasn't there some heat back in the day between la Liz and at least one of her son in his hippie phase ? I kind of remember that one of her kids was trashing her in the papers, and didn't want anything to do with her in the 70's...

What family doesn't have their ups and downs?

Some biography I read about her years ago, said she had an affair with every single leading man she made a movie with - except for one. Not Jimmy Stewart.

Yes, R74, technically she "outranks" Albert but it's a matter of time and place. Also, Caroline has been separated from Ernst-August for the better part of a decade.

R75, Monaco does not follow salic law, which of course excludes all females from succession. In fact, Monaco follows male-preference cognatic primogeniture, in which Albert II would be succeeded (at present, in presumptive terms) by his legitimate children, son first but then by his daughter, followed by his sister, Caroline.

Also, Ernst requested permission from Elizabeth II to marry Caroline, so that he could remain in the British succession. He claims a titular (pretender status) princedom of Great Britain. He's also a mess.

"He got old. It happens to all of us."

Going bald doesn't happen to all of us. And Albert started losing his hair when he was in his twenties.

He got flabby, piggy like and fat in the face. Wasn't he a hot Olympian once ?

[quote] It's usually those Old Hollywood beauties with the "classy" images who end up with messed up home lives and kids.

Not always. Ingrid Bergman had a classy image, and she did have a messed up home life, but all her children ended up well.

R37, you're joking right? This stuff goes back way before the 1950s, like 17th-18th century or further.

R85, I don't blame her one bit. Jimmy Stewart was the nerdiest fug that ever had a movie career in leading roles.

Guillermo Villas for R67/R70:

R90 That's an impressively bad hair do. You don't see that everyday. Way to dark color, to long and rediculous comb over. Is there a bad old man hair box he doesn't check?

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Yeah, he and actually beats Robert Redford for bad old man hair, R91. I can't believe I'm only 3 years younger than Vilas, must be the sun.

Edit:

R92 is meant for R83 Sorry about the typo.

R89 you must be joking right ? Ingrid Bergman was the biggest scandal of the 20th century when she, the married idol of America, the holy saint nun of the silver screen, got pregnant out of wedlock by Rosselini. She had to abandon her daughter Pia, she had to flee America and go in hiding in Europe. The Congress, the pope vilified her. It was worse at the time than the Taylor /fischer/reynolds a few years later, because she wasn't allowed to see her daughter again for a decade. She was considered a fallen woman and a whore ! Classy ? Even the people who didn't particularly like her were sick of her treatment. She lost her audiences the world over, until she was forgiven after many, many years. And even then the middle class would say at the mention of her name ' I don't have any admiration for her' with a stiff upper lip. Classy image ? Where have you been all this time ?

Seems like it's the OH stars branded by the public as "fallen/loosse women" who actually manage to raise their kids right. I mean even Jane Mansfield's kids seem to have turn out all right.

[quote] She had to abandon her daughter Pia, she had to flee America and go in hiding in Europe.

"Abandon"? Pia and Ingrid kept a close relationship and she was flown out frequently to see her mother in Europe.

I read the actress Lee Grant's recent memoir and she stated that years ago she did a documentary with Princess Grace.

At one point between takes she had to tell Grace to loosen up and tell her something of substance - it was all these pat answers that were not coming off well.

At that point Grace cracked and told Lee privately that whenever she went to Paris no one came and visited her and insinuated that her life was somewhat lonely and not terribly happy. A real eye opener.

Grace and Bing

I doubt Grace and Cary. Or Louis Jourdan. Or Stewart Granger.

Princess Grace in later years. A tad plump but not too bad.

She did quiet a bit with 8 hairs and the added pieces.

Wedding photo of Grace and her Prince.

[quote] Ingrid Bergman was the biggest scandal of the 20th century when she, the married idol of America, the holy saint nun of the silver screen, got pregnant out of wedlock by Rosselini.

Pity she didn't have MGM behind her whoring ass.

The Bride.

Stephanie looks in R46 like she's trying to go through a list, or is imagining being anywhere but there.

R97 where exactly did you get that info ? Because there is actual coverage of Bergman reunion with her ( forced) estranged daughter Pia, which is really tragic. They are both in tears and overwhelmed. Isabella spoke many times about the grief her mother went through when her ex husband denied her the right to see their daughter. I hate it when DLers talk complete rubbish about very well known facts. It was years later, when Ingrid was finally married and raising 3 children in Italy that Pia was finallly allowed to visit.

[quote]Interestingly, it is Elizabeth Taylor, vilified for her vulgarity and excesses, whose kids AND grand kids all turn out bitterness-free and well-mannered.

That's an interesting point. A lot of the women in Hollywood who have bad reputations seemed to have raised great kids.

Barbra Streisand, Bette Midler, Diana Ross, Madonna have brought up scandal free kids who seem to have good heads on their shoulders. Shit, Judy Garland had major issues, but her kids turned out great.

Meanwhile, the ones with great reputations seem to have had great difficulties. Didn't Angela Lansbury and Doris Day's kids hang out with the Manson family?

In his youth, Albert was cute in that youthful, twink sort of way, but he was never a hottie. And that receding hairline foretold the baldness that was to come.

Did he go quite, quite deep into Brooke then ?

She was a cold-hearted snake.

"Not always. Ingrid Bergman had a classy image, and she did have a messed up home life, but all her children ended up well."

What happened to her son with Roberto Rossellini? He was the baby she was pregnant with before she and Rossellini got married. I think she was still married to her first husband while pregnant with Rossellini's child. It was a major scandal; she left her husband and daughter to be with her Italian lover, which rather ruined her image, since she tended to play noble characters. But amazingly she overcame that and her career rose again. Anyway, her son Roberto was quite a wastrel in his youth; did he ever make anything of himself? He and his sisters were very spoiled by their mother, who gave them things instead of her time.

Ingrid was a whore!

Yes R112. Ingrid was one big fat ass bitch whore of tremendous magnitude. She got banged to the high heaven. Only the orient express didn't roll over her.

"Shit, Judy Garland had major issues, but her kids turned out great."

R107, I don't know what to laugh at first - that bi-polar Judy who was threatening her kill herself every other weekend has "issues," or that her three substance abusing psycho kids "turned out great."

"Barbra Streisand, Bette Midler, Diana Ross, Madonna have brought up scandal free kids who seem to have good heads on their shoulders. Shit, Judy Garland had major issues, but her kids turned out great."

I think it's a bit premature to say that Madonna's bought African children have "good heads on their shoulders." And your statement that Judy Garland's kids "turned out great" is truly mind boggling. Either you're joking or are in total ignorance about Liza Minnelli (drunk, drug addict mentally ill), Lorna Luft (drunk, drug addict) and Joey Luft (retarded).

Ingrid's daughter, and Isabella 's twin is a very distinguished teacher of high rank.

For R108:

[quote] Shit, Judy Garland had major issues, but her kids turned out great.

(hic!) Shanksh, Georgia!

I can understand why Elizabeth II was a distant parent because she was overwhelmed from a young age with being the reigning monarch. But what did Princess Grace have to do all day? Rainier did all the work--Grace just had to sit around and attend banquets.

Grace's children were very close to their father, far closer than they were to Grace. Her Serene Royal Highness had cheated on her husband; she had a long-term relationship with her driver/bodyguard until her death. Her children knew about this affair and were pissed off about her disloyalty to their father.

Grace and Rainier didn't live together. Grace lived in a villa up in the hills. She only came to the palace for official functiuns.when that ingrate bitch whore Caroline enrolled at the Sorbonne in Paris, Grace went with her. She told a friend 'it's our way of divorcing'

There are as many different kinds of moms as there are moms. That said, I think it's the ability to make her children feel loved that separates the successful moms from those who got accused by children of being coldhearted. The bad-rep Hollywood Moms - Liz, Madonna etc - who do have kids growing up alright are of the openly passionate variety. This quality could help them express affection for their kids better than their prim, elegant peers. For all we know, Grace might have loved her kids - in her heart - just as much as Liz or maybe even more. Grace might have put in a lot of effort in trying to better her children's lives - better by her own definition, of course. But if she can't convey affection properly due to her classy ways making her seem standoffish, then her children will only see her as being standoffish and cold.

The Grimaldi children were brought up the same way as the Windsor, Glucksburg, Bernadotte, Bourbon-Parma, Orange, Bourbon, and Liechtenstein were. There’s no way that the children of a reigning sovereign get more than a few hours a week of semi-quality time with their parents, who are busy doing engagements for their realms. The children eat with their caregivers.

grace was alwys a cold manipulative cunt

she got her title and lost her soul

ingrid, like grace and liz, fukd ev thiing that moved, liz was infamous for gettin wasted and blowin waters under tables at partys. theyr all big fat drugged out messes, but hey, let the girls have fun! we all wanna do that yess. at least they had fun with their $$$. unlike mrs pressley who with her daughter gave millions to that ghastly church of $. gawd!

i do wonder if grace was murdered, by a daughter or the mafia or both....she had bad attitude to say least: grace.

in with the wind, out wit the water,,,we all wind up in that dam pine box: so enjoy girls!!!!!

R111, I've wondered why,Bergman was thought of as so saintly before the scandal. Sure, she was a nun in Bells of St. Mary's. But, in Arch of Triumph she's a street walker. In Jeckyll.Hyde she's a "bar,maid." Saratoga Trunk, a golddigger. Notorious, a party,girl who, to help the CIA, or precursor, marries a man,she doesnt love. Maybe because she was so fresh faced. In the 70s she was in a production of a Shaw play, in which also appeared Cal Culver, aka Casey Donovan.

what book? cant find it on amazon??? op??

any other scandalous bios u all can recommend? bout any one? luv bios

I think Caroline did the best she could balancing her birthright and her own life. So if speaks out now and discusses less than a fairy tale, what is the harm? She has earned the right, and actually my respect for her has increased a bit.

Stephanie the lesser had more freedom to live as she wanted, so she did. Good for her.

Compare them to the Brits. Diana thru her ghostwriter also had a somewhat valid reason to get her story told -- people needed to know what marrying into The Firm was like behind the fairy tale. Kate Middleton seems to be living how she wants, and it's not likely she will talk disparagingly about the royal institution.

And then there's trashtastic interloper Sparkle. But she's an old nobody,

In time it will be interesting to see what Caroline's kids or Stephanie's kids may tell about their own tales of woe, of horrible & deprived experiences of being rich Europeans -- if they even bother.

That family is half Eurotrash/half American. No wonder they're messed up.

The current Grimaldi’s are descended from the old German House of Baden, which is pretty distinguished. Caroline’s daughter is a descendant of the House of Hanover, not too shabby either.

You sound drunk, R104.

[quote]Caroline’s daughter is a descendant of the House of Hanover, not too shabby either.

Caroline's estranged husband and father of her youngest daughter Princess Alexandra of Hanover is not only a Prince of the House of Hanover, he is also pretender to the hereditary British Dukedom of Cumberland and Teviotdale and the Earldom of Armagh, suspended under the Titles Deprivation Act 1917. He continues to style himself a Royal Prince of Great Britain and Ireland.

I think what the above poster meant about Judy's children is that they turned out to be kind people. Nobody has ever had anything bad to say about them. Since Judy didn't leave them a dime, they've had to work like everybody else, and Liza is known to be a generous person.

As we say in France ' should we be grateful they don't bite ? '. About Ciccone's son, the latest knews was that he didn't even without want to visit his mother for Xmas, so how is that a sign of good mothering ?

I'd happily be a trashy prick and run off with an elephant for 1 billion.

What with the ' without ' ??? Sorry 'bout that

I think Diana hadn’t seen her sons in weeks before she died.

I remember very well the day Diana died, because it wad my dad's birthday. He had been out to buy a baguette and arrived saying ' princess Diana is dead'. We thought it was a lame joke. Then my grandmother arrived hot on his heels and said the same. It was so shocking because it was here in Paris, and she WAS the most famous woman in the world. That was days after the 'on a yacht with Dodi' tabloïd ad nauseum saga. It was so sad. I went for a walk through the city, and I swear people were shocked and saddened, making eye contact, and I even saw a woman buyind a sandwich and giving it to a homeless man at the monoprix rue d'Alesia. Unheard of for a parisian.

Wow, [R137], so are you basically saying that Parisians are total cunts on every other day except for the day Diana died?

Grace was gay. Very unhappy thing.

R138 lol, have you ever BEEN to Paris ? ( you don't have to type the [ ] hunty, they take care of themselves. ) by the time I reached the ripe old age of 20, I was so insensitive, growing up in that city, that I expressed mild annoyance and shrugged at someone being STABBED in front of me, right beside my posh building door.. How tasteless. This is where and when I started thinking I really had to do something about my parisian cuntishness.

So the french folks who generations ago bitched about Marie Antoinette saying of them "Let them eat cake" came full circle by adopting the same "let them eat cake" attitude for their less fortunate countrymen. Yes, of course they did.

[quote]she might have been able to return to work in the late 70s or 80s to give the Monarchy a modern jolt of energy,

The Turning Point was written for Grace and Audrey Hepburn (Grace in the Shirley part, Audrey in the Bancroft role). Grace really wanted to do it, but faced a lot of push back from her husband and his royal advisors, so she pulled out. Audrey had never been 100% committed to it, so she ditched it then as well.

Honey, it was not the upper middle class and upper class who bitched about Marie-antoinette. We parisians always had the 'let them eat cake' 'tude, and will until we are finally wiped of by the migrants, which is pending anyway

Grace Kelly never should have taken that Oscar away from Judy Garland!

Grace and Sophia should give their oscar back to their real owners.

All royalty parents are distant. Children are brought up by nurses who often have a closer motherly relation to them.

Kay Kendall said to Judy Garland: I hear Grace Kelly is a nymphomaniac.

Judy Garland replies: Only once you calm her down.

Judy was mean!

Judy should talk

'No Actors No Dogs.'

Hotels should still have that sign up.

No one's said much because they feel sorry for them, R132.

"For all we know, Grace might have loved her kids - in her heart"

That's the EASY part, R122. Kids don't give a fuck about what's in your heart if you don't demonstrate it.

No matter what the situation or relationship, we'll never do anyone in our proximity any good while being self-centered, self-absorbed, and self-pitying. Joy is found outside our own selves, focusing our energies on the betterment of those around us. Correlation between the behavior of the stereotypical drama queen/king parents and the hopelessly screwed children? You bet!

At least I didn't marry fags, Judy!

R147. Judy Garland had great wit, the best kind of humor.

r142 Starring Audrey and Grace for TTP sound like a bad idea. The 70s is, after all a time where old Hollywood glamor got brutally pwned by showy activism.

By 1977 Audrey was already too old to attract movie goers. See how her come back in 1976 Robin and Marian get only lukewarm response from critics and movie goers alike. She subsequently made a string of flops lasting into the 80s, before going the TV ex-Hollywood Star route.

Grace's return to the big screen might potentially generate more buzz than Audrey's, being that Grace was royalty and US is fascinated by that. That said, starring alongside Audrey, who was already one flop old with RaM, will make TTP seem like an old broad movie - a sure recipe for box office disaster.

Grace and Audrey = same age

Grace in 1977, on a magazine cover with perfect angle lights and diffusion lens.

Audrey in 1997

r156

Yes, and they are both too old by 1977 to be double billing in a movie without flopping.

I'm sure Grace would have been a crap mother if she hadn't married royalty. She came from money. Generally in those days you raised your kids personally because you didn't have the cash to do anything else.

They were both dead by 1997, R158.

Oops, Audrey in r158 is taken in 1977, in her forties.

R159, Too old? Grace and Audrey were only two to four years older than Anne Bancroft and Shirley Maclaine.

How well did Grace speak French and Monegasque?

r163 But Grace and Audrey looked and felt even older than their ages - with Grace bulky and Audrey wrinkled in only their 40s - and were officially old broads. Anne Bancroft and Shirley Maclaine were both better preserved at that point in time, and were far more contempory seeming compared to Grace and Audrey

Ann, in particular, still had that toned dancer's look in 1977, which is something even Audrey - who had gone full scrawny and creased - no longer had by then.

R164, Grace spoke French okay, not like a native speaker, but passable. I don't think she bothered with Monégasque because very few people spoke it anyway.

R90 Well, there goes that fantasy. Vilas was incredibly hot and he was a poet as well as tennis player.

Princess Grace wanted Caroline to marry Ernst. She was against her marriage to Phillippe Junot so it seems she tried to do something her mother had wanted. Plus, she got tons of money by marrying him.

Ernst is an ugly, abusive alcoholic. It's hard to look at his piggy nose. Sadly, Caroline's daughter with Ernst, Princess Alexandra, inherited his looks not hers but she seems like a happy girl.

Ernst is furious with his number 1 son and is trying to disinherit him and snag back 2 castles that had been given to the son. He boycotted the wedding between oldest son and a Russian clothes designer.

The Peruvian GF of Prince Christian (2nd son) looked so pretty in her pink floral dress at that wedding. Even better than her own weddings in London and Peru that were held recently. Ernst looked ok at the Peruvian wedding but red-faced.

Photo #4 shows Princess Alexandra, daughter of Ernst and Caroline.

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The rumor still persists that Princess Grace was part of that Swiss sex cult and it had something to do with the fight in the car. Was Grace about to be dropped off at the sex orgy? I think it was said that the crash site was near a house owned by the sex cult.

It was the same cult that Shania Twain and Mutt were supposed to be part of in Switzerland. White robes w/ a sun painted on the chest. The guru tells which couples when to have sex. It's called "Cult of the Solar Temple."

^^^^ Order of the Solar Temple.

Grace Kelly was one of the most beautiful brides who ever lived. It's sad to know that her dad was so rejecting and then she married a cheating, rejecting spouse. At least she got to have sex with a lot of handsome co-stars who adored her.

Boy, Brooke Shields sure looks, well, HARD, in that photo at R108. She was quite the opportunist, always dating guys that would give her prime publicity (her "boyfriend" Michael Jackson) and presumably expensive gifts. Besides cozying up to the balding Albert she also "dated" the infamous Dodi Fayed and no doubt she enjoyed his largesse for a while, courtesy of his Daddy of course, since good old Dodi never worked in his life.

Princess Grace starting gaining weight in the1980s. She wasn't grossly overweight but she was unhappy in her marriage and drinking. It showed in her face.

R174 Brooke Shields was so stunning as a child. As an adult, not so much. Still attractive but it must be hard to grow out of being such a stunner. Milla Janovich is the same.

I think Terri Shields pushed Brooke into those dates w/ MJ and Prince Albert.

I feel sorry for Brooke Shields because of her mom's alcoholism and controlling nature. Brooke looks fantastic for a 50 yr old. Here's a recent photo below.

Brooke Shields looks like a tranny. She has for a long time. Her great beauty peaked very early and went downhill very fast.

Brooke Shields has Italian royalty through her father's side of the family. The Shields men were tall, dark & handsome like Brooke's dad and her grandfather, Francis Xavier. They were prettier than their wives.

Brooke was breathtaking.

r175 Grace had wide man jaws so when she gain fat, it shows in her face first.

r177 Brooke Shield already looked like a handsome boy -brow ridges strong nose and angular jaws and all - during her teen years. So of course she is gonna mature into looking like a handsome man. Nothing wrong with that, except she often styles herself with heavy eye makeup and matronly hair as an adult, which on her strong features make her look drag queenish at times.

Attached: Brooke in Blue Lagoon. She looked like a handsome young man even here.

r179 looks like a still from Baby Doll, taken when Brooke was 12.

Milla Jovovich now.

Milla at age 11 by Herb Ritts

Milla, young.

For the record, since there's still confusion, in diplomatic terms, Albert outranks Caroline because he is a head of state, and in diplomatic precedence all heads of state are considered equal and everyone else in the world falls into the hierarchy in other ways. Caroline may be a royal princess (consort) as the estranged wife of a pretender to titles that are no longer legal even in his own country. In practical terms, though, Albert is "above" his sister, as is his wife and their two children.

In family settings (and family settings include private events where just about any royal or noble from any current or past European house is invited, since they're all related and hyper-aware of each other's position, past and preferences, Caroline may be plopped higher at the table because of her married name.

I read excerpts from Brooke's autobiography. She's very honest about her life and knowing that she's not the world's best actress.

In her later acting attempts, I couldn't stand that she shakes her head when speaking. I think Jessica Simpson does the same.

It's a pity that great beauties like Brooke, Milla and Ekaterina Gordeeva all had diaghters that look like the kids' fathers and not their mothers.

I hItched a ride to Monaco when I was staying about 15 miles away. June 1973, early evening. Surprised I could walk around the Palace grounds without anyone questioning me.

I thought Prince Albert of Monaco is bisexual. He wasn't bad looking as a kid but I'm sure got teased for his stutter.

Going bald and gaining weight really ages someone. Although now is a good time in history if you have to be bald because a shaved head can be hip and sexy. I think of Mark Strong and Avenatti. The Rock, Jason Strathern, and the Hot Felon Meeks all look good.

R187 Did you find it tacky? My sister went in the late 1980s or early 90s and said she was shocked at how tacky, cheap-looking and cheesy Monaco looked. She thought it was going to be like "To Catch a Thief."

She drove a rental car up in the same area where Princess Grace died and said it was really winding and scary. Her husband was too afraid that he wasn't an experienced enough driver after not driving for decades in NYC.

One of my neighbors who is in her nineties had to drive her fraidy-cat husband on their honeymoon up in those same hills because he was so terrified. She said she just turned up the radio loud to a classical station and got on with it.

There isn't a thing called ' monegasque ' language'. Monaco's language is French. Monaco is a town, America. A sovereigh town, but still a town. And tiny.

R179 Yes, the photo of Brooke is from "Pretty Baby." There were other ones I could have posted because she was so striling but I didn't want to post the petticoat ones. The film was creepy at the time to me and remains creepy although beautifully made.

^^striking

R185 I've always read that Prince Ernst was a drunken, cheating boor but I've never heard him called a pretender to his title. He certainly has a shitload of money and controls the castles.

"Looks like a still from Baby Doll, taken when Brooke was 12."

I think what you mean is "Pretty Baby", the movie in which she starred as a baby prostitute. Promoted as a sex symbol at that age...yech!

Prince Albert isn't a dreamboat but I would hate to live my life with his sourpuss wife. Perhaps he chose a woman like his mother -- icy and aloof. Why can't Charlene fake it for the cameras and look like she's happy to be their Princess? It can't be that hard to act the part for a few hours.

I can't stand her greasy face and that awful hair moussed up into a wave. Charlize Theron and Scarlet Johannson do the same frightful hairdo.

Albert would have been better off with the black flight attendant, the mother of his first son.

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Audrey = nose jobs over and over. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Audrey leans towards the dowdy side without her painted on power brows bambi eyes and full lips.

Grace, in direct contrast to the mentioned Brooke and Milla, was a plain teenager.

School photo from 1947

^ and pre nose jobs!

Nose job saved Grace somewhat, but it can't save 1960s Audrey, whose mod-look emphasized her big nostrils along with the smokers' cracked skin.

Good for her, r85. Jimmy Stewart was repulsive looking with an annoying voice.

R198 You can't compare the teenage Audrey with the adult Audrey. The photo you posted was during near or during WW2. She suffered greatly, starved but still bravely passed messages in her ballet bag in Holland that helped the Allies.

I met her and she was lovely, charming and very warm. Taller than I imagined (5’7”), because she was always called gamine, so I thought she’d be a pixie. She was absolutely radiant.

Her sons, Sean and Luca, were fighting each other over some personal possessions of Audrey not her money. They’ve have settled their differences. This happens in many families after a death. It has happened in mine for at least 2 generations.

The foundation was set up with good intentions but now, Sean has resigned and is suing the board. His lawsuit says that foundation is misusing their mother's image and paying themselves big money and not giving enough money to charity. I think Luca supports the lawsuit.

This had some information that I didn't know about Audrey Hepburn like that her dad was not only a horrible father who abandoned her, but he was a Nazi sympathizer.

R190, of course there is a Monégasque language. It's native name is Munegascu, and it is a dialect of Ligurian. It is taught in the primary and secondary schools of Monaco.

r203 So Audrey got to took a series of glamor shots - showcasing full cheeks - while starving during the harsh WWII?

Audrey might have been a wonderful human being. But had she been born beautiful, she would've had beautiful features even as a teenager. She did not. She was a tall thin woman with a dancer's graceful posturing, and the Givenchy gowns worked wonders to compliment her long-waisted, short-legged built. But natural beauty she was not.

Here is one in 1946, after Nazi Germany had surrendered.

When Audrey auditioned for Quo Vadis as an adult. Without the eye makeup and updo she was plain.

How did Grace and the Prince meet? I don't know the story.

Just to be clear, the Grimaldis are a ‘princely’ family and not a ‘royal’ family. Princely families are associated with principalities, like Monaco and Liechtenstein and many many dozens of others which existed in Germany up until the end of WWI. They bear the style His/Her Serene Highness and not His/Her Royal Highness.

None of this is to diminish the head of of state in Monaco, he’s a Reigning sovereign just as much as Queen Elizabeth or King Felipe is. They’re higher than aristocrats, but lower than actual royals. Queen Elizabeth’s own grandmother was born a Her Serene Highness, so was Prince Philip’s mother.

You're crazy R206 , R207

R140, how's that working out for you?

I doubt she would have had a long Hollywood career, she was just eye candy, no talent, no personalty on screen. She was a very beautiful woman but man was she boring to look at.

Love the desiccated queens calling beauties plain. R207 "plain"?

R205 thank you, but it's a dialect, like 'Nissart' in Nice and such. Correct me if I am in the wrong, but I don't think it qualifies as " language".

I always wondered about Audrey 's nose. It seemed so unnatural. Grace was a guest at the Cannes film festival. At the time she was fucking both Aumont and Cooper. Rainier wanted to get back at Cooper who had scooped Gisele Pascal, his former fiancee. So he invited Grace for a very publicized visit to Monaco. It was covered by Paris Match. She went, and being the whore that she was, she took the princely dick. Rainier saw ( daddy Kelly's) money and publicity, plus irish-american mafia connections. Kelly saw a title, a crown, and an escape from Hollywood. They were never happy. Just look at her face on the wedding pictures.

Stop with that "post redacted" bullshit, r196. It's beyond boring at this point, and whatever point you're trying to make is lost.

Prince Charming much ?

Upthread, you might have seen my claim that "Aristotle Onassis owned Monaco during the 1950's until Rainier pulled some sly maneuvers and started raking in all the dough for himself" - Grace put the tiny principality on the map as nobody gave a shit about Monaco before she entered the picture - aside from the usual details concerning most marriages, this marriage can also be viewed in a business sense - there was a power struggle going on between Onassis and Rainier for control of the casinos in Monaco, and therefore Monaco itself - peep the last few sentences of the article I'll link to:

"Secure in his position Prince Rainier drew up laws to break the dominance Onassis had by making new shares of the SBM to be owned by the government which would make Rainier III majority shareholder. Onassis tried to stop this bill in the courts but had no success. Seeing that his era of control of the SBM and thus his place of influence in Monaco over, Aristotle Onassis boarded his yacht Christina and departed Monaco, selling off his remaining shares in the SBM. Given his attitudes and behavior and the fact that Rainier’s plans were already leading to economic improvements, the Monegasque were not sad to see him go. Onassis felt he had been very unfairly treated of course, but one thing no one could deny was that no one would ever again view Prince Rainier III as a shallow simpleton or anything other than a very strong and shrewd monarch and businessman. In the long struggle between the Prince of Monaco and Aristotle Onassis it was the Prince who had emerged victorious."

Never forget that it's always all about the MONEY with these people.

It's a very basic scenario. Impoverished european nobility marrying american money.

R219 No. You miss the point entirely. The $2 million dowry was NOTHING - a pittance - compared to what was forecasted in the offing - Grace had a role to play not only as consort to the Prince, but as a world-wide known glamorous ATTRACTION for the principality, itself - It was all planned and executed quite brilliantly, in fact - Think of it this way: Las Vegas is an established gambling center, but it attracts no where near the clientele that it COULD under the current circumstances - it is also a tiny Kingdom with a King who rules it - that King marries Madonna during the very height of her fame which, of course, gives Las Vegas an invaluable degree of notoriety and fame throughout the entire world - BOOM! - the once relatively unknown gaming center of Las Vegas is now THE place to be as a resort destination - coupled with the "other useful things" casinos are known for, THE MONEY BEGINS POURING IN NON STOP - It was an exceptionally BRILLIANT business move

If I were Altesse Royale, and my siblings only Altesse Serenissimes, I would DEFINITELY force them to curtsy for me EVERY SINGLE TIME I appear in front of them AND leave the room, or even if I just pass them by, and I wouldn't let them speak to me unless I want them to.

R220, one of my grand parents lived in what they called ' Monte Carlo" (?_ never 'Monaco') for decades, including the 50's. They were from minor italian nobility, but one of my uncles, who is a world class CEO and a millionaire, was friendly with Grace's circle and actually had ( private, not official) dinner with her and such. the gossip in my euro family is that Rainier wanted a high profile hollywood marriage and had originally set his eyes on Marilyn Monroe, but upon learning what a trainwreck she was, opted for Kelly who was more suitably wealthy. Hence the 'Invitation '. They also say that it was Stephanie who was driving the fateful car.

I was an usher at Radio City when R&M played its exclusive NY engagement. This was a time when Hepburn's audience from her superstar days was still around and it was her return after a 9 year absence from films.

She had aged a lot probably from all the smoking. Looked like she was well into her 50s. I could barely get through the film it was so dreary and tedious. Lester put the romantic story through the 70s deromanticizing washed out color machine. Most of the time there were only a couple of hundred people in the 6,000 seat theater which only added to the depressing effect of the film. And it was the Easter show.

She was only in her mid 40s and one of the most incandescent famous stars at the Music Hall where many of her most popular films opened was already finished. As said above Kate H, Maclaine, Bancroft and even Bergman were not through at this point. Audrey went on to play in one unpopular film after another, probably had the worst agent and no longer knew how to read a script she was so out of practice.

R222 Very interesting in that we see what was once gossip has become established fact - Rainier was one of the coolest, sharpest, slyest business men and he is basically unknown for the coup he pulled concerning his own kingdom - he basically allowed Onassis to take the control of the entire venture to make Monaco (yes, Monte Carlo) what it eventually became - USED ONASSIS and his unrivaled business acumen to his advantage all the while knowing his final strategy and played it when the time came - Onassis orchestrated it all, but then Rainier pulled rank and essentially kicked Onassis out of Monaco AFTER he had transformed it into the money making machine he had envisioned, reaping all the monetary benefits for HIMSELF! - not only SHREWD, but also very CUNNING! He had outfoxed the legendary fox (Onassis), himself

^^^^^^ And this is why today the three Grimaldi offspring of Grace and Rainier have a net worth of $3 BILLION between them - because of everything that went down during the 1950's

Remarkable and in a way it began Ari's downfall. He sensed he was losing his touch. In desperation he married 'the widow' whom death followed like an infatuated suitor, had major failed business ventures, his son on whom he based his entire future was killed, and his former wife whom he did not want to divorce committed suicide. He ended his days like a superstitious Greek believing he was being punished by the fates for all the terrible things he had done in his life and spent much time sitting at his son's grave talking to him.

Ranier got it in the end too. Grace's death and his fucked up children to play out their foibles in front of the entire world. But maybe he didn't care. He lived a long life of great wealth and a certain power.

Some of you spouting off like you're familiar with Grace's personal history when you don't know the difference between Monte Carlo and Monaco is amusing.

R227, how well did you know the Grimaldi clan??? If you don't know more than anyone else, shut your piehole.

R228 - there's one in every crowd, right? - haha - I couldn't possibly care any less about the gossip - the business rivalry between Onassis and Rainier, however, is fascinating in the way it all played out - R227 for all intents and purposes, and especially as it relates to the power struggle between the two players, we condense Monaco and Monte Carlo into one (Rainier was Prince of MONACO and not Monte Carlo) - by all means, please tell us all about the other two areas of Monaco

[QUOTE] Never forget that it's always all about the MONEY with these people.

No, it’s more about retaining sovereignty over their realm, keeping outside interests at bay, and cultivating national pride at the economic (and even geographic) growth of the tiny country. Rainier did all these things.

Btw, Monaco wasn’t completely insignificant, it’s not like it wasn’t a playplace for the wealthy until Onassis butted his nose into everything. The casino in Monte Carlo was created in the 19th century to generate revenue. Somewhere in the earlier part of the 19th century Monaco lost something like 95% of its landmass to France, becoming the tiny place it is today. It wasn’t always this small.

Please - Monaco is BARELY over half the size of Central Park - Onassis was there but for one reason - Rainier permitted Onassis to work his wonder but for one reason - Rainier then screwed Onassis over entirely for but one reason - MONEY - the fact that the "country" of Monaco benefited is a given, but so too did the coffers belonging to Rainier, PERSONALLY, and not nationally

R227 I am perfectly aware of the distinction between Monaco and Monte Carlo, I often visit there, you can spare your venom, what I don't understand is why my grandfather never used the term 'Monaco' even though he was a resident for decades. I guess he just prefered the sound of it.

R214, Monégasque is a dialect of Ligurian, but nobody in Monaco calls it "Ligurian." It's "Monégasque."

From a linguistic perspective, there is no tidy distinction between dialect and language, and often it it a political one. For instance, Moldovan is really just a dialect of Romanian, but the Moldovans call it the Moldovan language. Or the Valencians insisting that their native language is Valencian, when really it's just Western Catalan. But then you go to Italy, and every town has its own 'dialetto,' many of which are mutually incomprehensible from Standard Italian.

[quote]She had aged a lot probably from all the smoking. Looked like she was well into her 50s. I could barely get through the film it was so dreary and tedious. Lester put the romantic story through the 70s deromanticizing washed out color machine. Most of the time there were only a couple of hundred people in the 6,000 seat theater which only added to the depressing effect of the film. And it was the Easter show.

Kids were likely disappointed it wasn't more like the Disney or Errol Flynn versions.

People like r210 r213 need to to get out more if they think that's attractive. That, or maybe they have a thing for the small-eyed man-jawed look. Brook and Milla mentioned upthread were true natural beauties with naturally striking features. Post-fame Audrey was at best a product of good stylings and surgeries.

As for that somebody who call her a wonderful person. Well, she might have grown into a better person as an old lady doing humanitarian work. But in her prime, she was the kind of woman who, while openly affair-ing the husband, would dare show up a family dinner to intimidate the wife and show off the fact. Look up the William Holden Brenda Marshall Audrey Love triangle to see how it went down. Grace and even Liz ain't nothing on Audrey when it comes to the homewrecker factor.

And to say her sons suing each other fighting over her possession is common . . . well, bitter children accusing parents of being coldhearted are also very common. Common does not equal nothing's wrong in our world. Greed and pettiness are sadly very common in our world, doesn't mean people guilty of them are fine folks. Bad parenting results in children brought up badly which is sadly very common.

r223 Agreed with how Hepburn was old before her time in R&M. It was also painful to see her still affecting the gamine wide eyes at that point, instead of displaying more maturity as befitting the older nun character. Her was also speaking in this quick and shrill voice that was often inaudible, but I wonder if that was because of a bad dub job.

Being a heavy smoker, Hepburn had always had eye bags and wrinkles even in her twenties. Her skin and muscles both went to hell in her thirties, which was apparent even with the heavy diffusion lens they use for all her films. Even her famous dancer's built had all but disappeared by Two For the Road - she was thin but without waist. The physical decay no doubt plays a huge factor as to why she retired as early as age 37.

Thanks to DL my eyes are opened. I never realized before that G.Kelly was a fug, that Audrey Hepburn was decaying aged 37, that Vivien Leigh looked like a chipmunk, that Gene Tierney could eat an apple through a picket fence, etc... And me thinking all these trolls were among the greatest beauties the world has ever seen. Thank you DL!

Audrey, as much as I love her, ruined one of my favorite trashy novels when she made the movie version of BLOODLINE.

Wait R237, is it a TERRIBLE movie, like not even good enough for cheap lifetime soap, boasting Audrey, Schneider, Mason, and a half dozen megaA+ listers ? With Audrey ending on the roof of her burning Villa?

r236 welcome, fangirl. Here is one more publicity still of Audrey at 37.

Ough! Disgusting! Brrrr@#lllluuurk ( excuse me while I throw up) .

By 1967 Audrey could totally star in the same movie with the top beauty of the day and still make sense . . . as the mom/aunt etc.

When we were in Nice in July 2000 we made the mistake of renting a car and getting on that busy Boulevard along the sea to Monaco. The traffic was so horrible we remember driving (we seem to remember someone else in the car with us, a hot number we met?) up in the hills above Monaco but not getting down to the sea. Perhaps if we ever get there again we shall see it all.

You're so used to botoxed bimbos you can't tell what natural aging looks like when you see it.

R241: And when was the last time you saw Olivia Hussey in anything?

Olivia is a nun now, in India I believe

At least she was safe around Franco "let's play grabass" Zefferelli.

Ther were German principalities that were the same size as modern day Monaco, some only small towns. Size isn’t everything, being born into a princely House means more than the size of the country when making dynastic marriages. There was over a hundred years of Russian empresses and grand duchesses which originated from tiny German principalities, also queens of the Netherlands, Greece, and Wurttemberg. We don’t see a history of princesses of Monaco making grand dynastic marriages because there simply weren’t that many of them over the years, for some reason the princes of Monaco weren’t prolific breeders with their married spouses. Anyway, a princess of Monaco would be expected to marry a fellow Roman Catholic, and there was stiff competition for Catholic princes from the various Hapsburg family branches. They were lucky to marry French or Italian noblemen.

Now that circuses are getting rid of elephants what is billionaire Stephanie doing with her life? Sitting around smoking and reading French and Italian tabloid magazines about the exploits of Harry and Meghan?

Or does no one in Europe care about the prince and the divorced American adventuress with a plaster smile?

Hey we've got Franco to thank for that beautiful shot of Whiting's ass.

And for the straight men a fleeting glimpse of Olivia's tits.

We simply don't believe that Harry, our Harry is going to marry the z-list divorcee american negro tv actress old enough to be his mother. This is just not happening.

r244 Even suppose Olivia was a flash, doesn't change how Audrey was over the hill at 37 and had to retire. Her failed comeback in the 70s and the subsequent flops show that she was no longer offered good projects. That was because once she aged out of her gamine appearance she became difficult to cast - because her gamine affectation sticks. She was doing the wide eye skittish girl thing even late as that awful TV movie Love Among Thieves 1987. She simply cannot handle meaty mature roles like the other Hepburn.

Katharine Hepburn's late period wasn't all [italic]On Golden Pond[/italic]. She did a similarly bad TV movie in the late 1980s with Joel Higgins right after [italic]Silver Spoons[/italic] went off the air; her voice is so hoarse that it's painful to listen to, even worse than Lucy in MAME, while Joel and the family they cast him with look like they came in from another movie.

K.Hepburn, B.Davis, V.Leigh still got to play leading parts after the 40 mark in serious movies because they were major talents, before being beautiful. I don't think that G.Kelly or A.Hepburn were such great actresses. They were very good, very beautiful actresses, but nothing like the 3 afor mentioned.

Audrey never would have done a movie with Larry the Cable Guy.

Joan Crawford didn’t get any really good parts towards the end of her career, I guess she wasn’t considered a good actress either. She was a good movie star though.

Juliet is now a nun?

Her nun name is mother Teresaa

I still say this was better.

r253 Vivien, the only beautiful one of the 3 mentioned, did not get any further film acting nominations after Street Car, which she did at 38. The Deep Blue Sea, Mrs. Stone etc were all lukewarm with critics and at the box office.

r255 Joan was already in her 50s when she did Baby Jane, which was not nominated though everyone praised her acting in it. She did well as an old broad actress goes.

Vivien was extraordinary in the roman spring of mrs Stone and Ship of fools. What's your point ? Not every great performance is nominated and not every nomination is deserved. We are talking leading parts after 40, not in horror films. Was Grace so great in the country girl ? Better than bette davis in ' baby jane, or leigh in the deep blue sea ? I don't believe so

r252 Katherine was 22 yrs older than Audrey. Her doing a bad TV movie in the 1980s is different from Audrey doing the same in that decade.

r260 With Deep Blue See it wasn't just a case of Vivien not getting nominated. The major critics at the time were simply not hot on her performance like you do now. And are you trying to make horror movie sound less-acting-y than other genres?

Katherine had ended up in children's films like [italic]Ollie Ollie Oxen Free[/italic] by the 1970s.

See for yourself. Link to those critics? In which universe were they operating ? Because she was universally acclaimed for that performance and won 'etoile de christal for best actress in a leading role on planet earth.

As for the deep blue sea, she got a bad rep at the time for playing it instead of Peggy Ashcroft, who had created it on stage, and the misogynistic critics of the time thought she was too beautiful to be sad over being dumped. Her performance has been reevaluated and lauded since then

r263 Calm down. You're insulting Vivien's legacy by confusing Ship of Fools with Deep Blue Sea - two very different films. Also, perhaps the fact that this etoile de christal isn't listed on Wiki may have some people overlooking it?

Etoile de Cristal was a major european award that doesn't exist anymore. I answered in two posts because I wanted to share sources on both films. Not insulting Viv at all

Vivien and Brigitte, having tea at the Palais: " So Grace, what year did you win l'étoile de Cristal ?" _Grace :" I didn't '. _Vivien and Brigitte: "Oh!" (eyeroll)

Well, it can't have been so prestigious if Brigitte had one, just sayin

She won in comedy/musical for Viva Maria

I could listen to r247 all day. I really could.

R236, absolutely priceless.

Laugh at Bardot's acting all you want. She still was prettier as a teen than both Grace and Audrey

As was Ava Gardner, whose features were real instead of surgical.

See Ava at 14

Meanwhile, back in Monte Carlo...

R246 He tormented her in other ways.

[quote]She still was prettier as a teen than both Grace and Audrey

Does this mean she was fucked first, faster and harder by older, abusive men? It might explain why she transformed into a reclusive, crazy xenophobe only capable of forming bonds with her cats and dogs.

R267 Anouk Aimee looks lovely next to BB.

"...only capable of forming bonds with her cats and dogs. "

She knows who's deserving of her affection.

Brigitte was very humble about her acting abilities. She was a trained dancer and it's Vadim who pimped her out, when she was only a teen. She tried very hard to improve herself and even took the stage for a supporting part in Jean Anouilh's 'l'invitation au château '. She hated being an actress and she hated being stalked by the paps. She was forced to give birth at home because a mob blocked the streets and the police didn't help. The paps were stalking her 24/7, with an assignment to 'make her cry'. I saw a pap's interview. He was apologizing decades later. She tried to kill herself several times. She suffered a nervous breakdown when Pier Angeli was found dead. At least she's doing something useful. Apart from K.Hepburn, I don't know of ANY movie star who didn't try to escape the studio system. I saw an interview of someone in Monroe's team, saying that Monroe gasped at Grace's marriage, ' she's so lucky she escaped the circus'

Grace wanted to leave at one point, but it would have meant leaving her children.

And?

[quote]The physical decay no doubt plays a huge factor as to why she retired as early as age 37.

What a ridiculous statement. The truth is, Hepburn's marriage to Mel Ferrer was breaking up while she was filming "Wait Until Dark," which Ferrer co-produced, and she came close to having a nervous breakdown from the stress. She decided to take an extended break from acting. Then she met Dr. Andrea Dotti, married him, and became pregnant. Because she had a history of miscarriages, she spent most of her pregnancy in bed. With two sons to raise, she didn't give much thought to performing again, and only did "Robin and Marian" because her sons begged her to.

Robin and Marian was not a financial flop, in the sense of losing money, it just wasn't much of a hit. The reviews were actually decent, especially for Hepburn (check out Rotten Tomatoes, where it's 76% fresh). And the press and marketing for the movie made no pretense of its being the young Robin and Marian - it was always intended, and marketed, as a middle-aged love story. It was also implied that this was to be Hepburn's farewell to the screen. She got the itch again from doing it, though, and elected to do a few others. They were all awful except for Always, which was okay and nothing to be ashamed of. Actually, the worst of the bunch, Bloodline, at least led her into a hot affair with Ben Gazzara, so she probably enjoyed doing it even if it was awful.

Since childhood we have dreamed of becoming a nun - perhaps now is the time.

R274 Looks like we took a wrong right turn at the palace and somehow ended up at Cannes

Lots of surviving Old Hollywood stars did work that was beneath them in the 1970s and 1980s just to pay the bills for the lives to which they'd grown accustomed.

R285, it's ok Olivia, we liked 'the killer bees ' shit

Bacall as a middle aged and older actress did some pretty decent stuff and I believe she was older than Audrey.

I'm one of the two people i know who thinks Joan is wonderful in Baby Jane. She gives a very subtle performance which gives the ending its real shock and is better than Davis giving a grand guignol performance off off Broadway by a drag queen.

Joan sometimes gave a performance of real power and was more than just a star.

OK getting back to Monaco. Grace at her best was good but this was pretty rare like in Rear Window but what else? The beauty of a fair tale princess and the acting ability of Pia Zadora.

Kelly was well-directed by Hitchcock and had quite a presence in his movie. But that's it. Even with an Oscar win, she was still more icon than actress. Her not making a return to the big screen in midlife actually helped protect her actress' legacy . . . as can be seen by what happened with her peer A Hepburn.

r282 So, according to your own post R&M was "implied that this was to be Hepburn's farewell to the screen" but still end up "wasn't much of a hit"? Hepburn's box office power had really waned by then. Even the kind words of sympathetic critics cannot lift the numbers, nor did it get her any noteworthy acting nominations. Also, had Audrey still been receiving million dollar offers back in 1967 do you really think she would announce retirement? She could easily have had productions move dates around her pregnancies/depressions whatnot like she did with BaTiffany's. Instead she wasn't getting the kinda offers she liked so she had to announce retirement hoping to at least make a graceful exit . . . which she dimmed by returning with the string of box office disappointments. Along with Bloodline, They All Laughed and even the TV Movie were all laughably bad. Always was forgettable.

r264 "Her performance has been reevaluated and lauded since then"

Good for Vivien on getting the Marilyn Monroe treatment in death.

r276 "Does this mean she was fucked first, faster and harder by older, abusive men?"

A teen beauty tip if there ever was one. Grace would have done well to start her sleeping around pre-Hollywood. She wouldn't even have needed the nose job then.

Bitches 1) Grace never had a nose job. Link, or it never happened. 2) Viv didn't get the Monroe treatment after death, except for that specific performance. Unlike Monroe she was considered a genius. 3) Audrey suffered a violent backlash not unlike Anne Hathaway, after my fair lady. The critics and the audiences alike were tired of her uber posh fashion plate snobbish number, and I think it was Pauline Kael who took a double page in the paper to declare war to Audrey, calling her a anorexic hanger for givenchy, who hadn't given a performance since a nun story. And was a bad role model for young women. That plus the Julie Andrews incident, Audrey was forced to retire.

Grace and Vivien having tea at the Palais, after Brigitte left. 'Marilyn .... Marilyn who ? Oh, you mean that girl, the one who flopped in my role in the film version of the sleeping prince ? What years did she win her Oscars ? '....[......].......'Oh" (eye roll)

Who are all these charlatans citing themselves as "Prince" and "Princess?" Reigning over a tiny little seaside town whilst insisting to the world it be a "nation." I've about had my fill of the fakery and the fuckery! I'm the only Monarch who matters in this world, and this Queen kicks ass and takes names later! Don't believe me? Pip! PIP!!! HOLD MY TIARA, HOLD MY TIARA!!!!!!

- Elizabeth II, Queen of Great Britain, Northern Ireland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Jamaica, Barbados, the Bahamas, Grenada, Papua New Guinea, Solomon Island, Tuvalu, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Belize, Antigua and Barbuda, and Saint Kitts and Nevis, and some other shit you know nothing about

r291 "Audrey suffered a violent backlash [words omitted] Audrey was forced to retire."

When a star is "forced" to retire, it is always because of diminishing public interest, and subsequent lack of interest from industry insiders. As you say, the "critics and the audiences alike were tired of her" in 1967, when she was only 37.

No one suffered a bigger backslash than Liz when she hooked up with Dick, and Liz became a even bigger star after Cleopatra. The people who went to movies were eager to see her films in the early 60s. Even in her career decline (citing wiki) in the 1970s, she was still earning 20 times Michael Caine's salary in X Y and Zee (citing Caine), and even got a David di Donatello Award for Best Foreign Actress out of it.

Audrey would have stayed on in 1967 regardless of backlash had there been enough interest for her from the public. There was not. She was simply no longer able to draw enough audience interest at age 37, and I say her rapid physical decay had a part to play.

Liz got a pass because Mike Todd. And suddenly she became a top actress, out of nowhere. That kept the public interest alive for a little while

r295 “Liz got a pass because Mike Todd. And suddenly she became a top actress, out of nowhere. That kept the public interest alive for a little while”

Huh?

Taylor married Mike Todd in 1957 and he died in 1958. So that "little while" you spoke of lasted for way over a decade and a half. Was Todd really the sole reason for her high film salary throughout the 60s and into the early 1970s? Did fans of Liz and Richard flock to the theaters only because of Todd?

Also . . . out of nowhere? Taylor had been praised for her acting since as early as 1951’s a Place in the Sun. She had been a box office draw since much earlier though. The Bride movies have remakes in the 90s. National Velvet was huge box office, and had since made her an internationally known star at 12.

[quote]No one suffered a bigger backslash than Liz when she hooked up with Dick

I beg to differ.

Grace should have married Mike Todd instead if she wanted to live the high life while acting on.

Mike Todd was a pig. Liz would have divorced him like all the others.

She wanted to marry William Holden. Her father insisted she marry Bing Crosby instead.

r299 But Todd was practically God of Hollywood! He was reason for Liz's suddenly becoming a top actress "out of nowhere," and had kept public interest alive for his backslashed adulterous widow who should have been forced to retire! Twice! Grace would have ruled Hollywood forever had she chose the star-making showman over with the Prince of Monaco! Just ask r295, they'd tell you!

r300 Was Grace also affair-ing Holden? Did she also show off the affair to Holden's wife like Audrey?

R299, yes, I'd retroactively give it another three years. His ex, Joan Blondell, said, "I hope he screamed all the way down. "

Isn't Oleg Cassini she wanted to marry, R300?

r303 Yes. Todd was reportedly a dick to Blondell. And he died before his short marriage to Taylor even had a chance to crack. Then again, Todd really could be extremely charming when in the pursuing stage.

Ever heard of the ‘Mike Todd’ earrings? They were one of Taylor’s favourite pieces from her collection despite having only smaller-sized stones. Story went that Todd took Taylor on a leisure trip to Paris. At a jewellery place, he urged Taylor to get the most expensive pieces, which he'd pay for. Taylor, however surprised him by choosing only a pair of paste stone earrings, telling him they were fabulous.

A couple of months later in New York, Taylor searched for the earrings and when opening the box, gasped when she realized that Todd had replaced the paste earring with a copy crafted in real diamonds - cause she was worth it.

Taylor had been photo-ed wearing those earrings through all subsequent stages of her long life.

Not saying Grace should've seriously considered Todd, but the Prince does seem an inferior lover if not husband.

Liz Grace and Prince. The royal couple partied with Liz so often, they should have asked for parenting pointers from her. It could potentially keep Princess Caroline from shooting at the mouth about their being coldhearted at the very least.

The Prince and Princess with Ari Onassis and Ava Gardner.

Grace and Audrey, talking about how to raise grateful and dignified children, no doubt.

Wonder if they ever fought over the married William back in the day?

Ingrid Bergman basically left her oldest daughter from age 12 to 18 and admitted that her work was probably more important to her than it should have been. Still she must have done something right, because whenever you her her kids (usually Isabella and/or Pia) talk about her, they are honest about her parental flaws, but seem to think of her fondly.

Once Ingrid was into her forties she seemed to do more stage than movies and seemed to have mixed luck with her movies post-1960 (the strangest one maybe being the one with Liza M). Still she was able to end with two strong roles with Autumn Sonata and A Woman Called Golda. . She did die relatively young.

Audrey: Not being vulgar but that A-list paycheck helps you know? I mean, I can’t stand it if my kids ever end up having to fight over money like common guttersnipes.

Grace: And nannies. My babies are gonna grow with the bestest nannies from my country catering to their every whim. Surely they would grow up oh so grateful for having won the birth lottery.

“To the public a screen icon's award rack-up is much less memorable than her publicized nudity. You're remembered by how outrageous you act, not by whether you can act. Which explains why everyone still remembers my Life Magazine Photoshoot in 2018, but not that Eto-ile dildo thing you seem so proud of winning.”

Off course darling ! No one here is suggesting that you won't be remembered by your acting prowess..es. Both of them. So.....voluptuous... What exactly happened to them by the way honey ? Were you on a hunger strike for better parts? ( Oh, and have someone read for you the line ' adjusted')

Mike Todd had little if anything to do with Elizabeth Taylor's being a "top actress." She had always been a hot commodity since "National Velvet" at the age of 12, and her hollywood value increased substantially as she physically matured, revealing her stunning beauty. Her career is tied to her beauty, no doubt, and both career and beauty were as a photograph being developed amid solution in a dark room. It all came to be as a simple matter of course. She had acted in "Giant" before knowing Mike Todd, and it was Rock Hudson who said he'd do the film if they could get Taylor to play Leslie. "Anything with LIz in it makes money" - she was already a "top actress." If anything, they became a "power couple" based on their own individual merits melding together. Correct me if I'm wrong, but "Around the World in 80 Days" seems to be Todd's only success worth mentioning. She never acted in any of his films, and therefore he had nothing to do with her success. She was already a power player in her own right, and loads more famous and well known than he. The ups and downs of her personal life undoubtedly added incredible momentum to her meteoric rise after Todd had died.

He had nothing to do with her advancing along her career path. Nothing.

[quote]"Around the World in 80 Days" seems to be Todd's only success worth mentioning.

His only so-called "great film," but he also produced "This is Cinerama," which was a big hit, and he had several huge Broadway hits during the 1940s.

[quote]Also, had Audrey still been receiving million dollar offers back in 1967 do you really think she would announce retirement? She could easily have had productions move dates around her pregnancies/depressions whatnot

This ... person ... is very invested in the idea that Audrey Hepburn faced backlash, that her career was over by 1967, that the only possible reason she stopped making movies was either because there was no demand or because she wasn't getting offers she liked.

Hepburn's lack of an Oscar nom for MFL was indeed considered a bit of a slap, but that "backlash" was over by the time of the awards themselves. Hepburn, in fact, was asked to present the best actor award (which everyone knew was almost a guaranteed win for Harrison), and she got a huge ovation when Bob Hope announced her. She was delighted when Harrison one, and Harrison made a point of holding onto her, so she stood there with him while he made his speech, and he also said he felt he should really divide it in half and give part to her (his way of saying "fuck you" to the Academy for not nominating her). Then he did something gracious himself (which he wasn't known for), and thanked "two fair ladies" before leaving with Audrey.

When Andrews was interviewed after her own win, she acknowledged that she would not have been able to do "Mary Poppins" if she had been signed for "Fair Lady," since "fair Lady" began shooting in the middle of the "Poppins" shoot. As it was, the beginning of the Sound of Music shoot became tricky when she was needed for Poppins retakes. (In fact, when Andrews won her Golden Globe for Poppins, she thanked the "man who made it all possible," Jack Warner, to huge laughs.) The "backlash" was officially over, and Hepburn's next film, "How to Steal a Million," was a big hit both critically and financially. Then came "Two for the Road," which was a critical hit. By that point, "Wait Until Dark" was written for her (she was offered the stage version, too, but didn't want to do that, just the film. Lee Remick did the play, knowing that she wouldn't get the film which was already committed to Audrey).

Sorry to burst your bubble, but if you bothered to read any of the many books or articles about Hepburn, you'd know she didn't stop acting in 1967 for any reason other than wanting to get away from film making for an extended period - and then, she got pregnant and had a newborn (along her her older son, Sean) to take care of.

"Mike Todd was a pig." And a drunk, and an abuser. Today he's be in jail.

R313.Taylor was FORGIVEN her antics because of Todd's death, nobody said he made her. And she became a ' top actress '= someone who could REALLY ACT with Burton. You don't know anything about acting, you don't know the difference between success or fame And acting ability. You don't know anything about show business, or even TAYLOR. You don't even understand a simple sentence. You are STUPID. TASTELESS. UNEDUCATED. Pretentious CUNT. STFU. CUNT !!!

r315 I agree there's no backlash. There was simply a lesser demand for her, which explains her lukewarm box office in R&M just a few years down the road.

r317 What "antics" prior to Todd's death did Taylor had that needs forgiving?

r317 sounded kinda like the one who blew up at people for not knowing Leigh had won some gone-ed euro award not listed on Wiki and IMDb

For the record, Taylor was an Oscar and Golden Globes winner with multiple other nominations and awards since pre-Burton. Her acting has been praised by major film critics in many earlier works like A Place in the Sun, Last time I saw Paris and Giant - all of which she did pre-Todd. Todd's only influence to Taylor's life was maybe Todd AO - a lot of which went to Todd Jr- and starting her on a serious love affair with jewelery.

The antics AFTER TODD'S DEATH. The people didn't forgive her because she was a young widow BEFORE HER HUSBAND'S DEATH! Are you all on meth today ?????? She was supposed to be mourning her husband 's death and instead she fucked her bff/ America's sweetheart's husband, and wrecked their marriage. Then she dumped the poor bastard for yet ANOTHER married man. ( burton for the illeterate morons on this thread). she was a WHORE. But didn't suffer the same BACKLASH as hepburn, who was burnt at the feminist's stake in the late 60's.

R304 She wanted to marry him too. Her father vetoed anyone not Catholic or if they had been divorced. That's why he wanted the widowed Bing Crosby. I don't know why she let her father dicate her life like that but I believe she married Prince Rainer in an attempt to finally please her father. He couldn't object to a Catholic Prince.

"Taylor was FORGIVEN her antics because of Todd's death, nobody said he made her." - r317 So . . . supposing the antics were forgiven because of Todd's death, wouldn't that imply Todd's death had to happen after the antics, which then got forgiven when Todd died?

As for the part that "he made her":

"Liz got a pass because Mike Todd. And suddenly she became a top actress, out of nowhere. That kept the public interest alive for a little while" - r295

Like . . . is that sentence not implying that "she became a top actress out of nowhere" was something that happened AFTER "got a pass because of Todd"?

R319 NO! NO GURL! Todd pushed Taylor in the Tennessee Williams sex shockers and transformed her image completely. He had a major influence on her career, her new level of success and her persona. And yes she was considered a very good screen actress, but after Burton, and especially 'virginia woolf' it was a completely different story. Even the old timers like Dietrich who hated her, started respecting her Professionaly

No R322, because ANYONE except you understands that when you lose the love of your life, you suffer so much, that no matter what you do to survive AFTER THAT LOSS, you are deserving a little compassion, because it's TERRIFYING, AND EXCRUCIATING, so Taylor, because of Todd's death, was subsequentely not judged and rejected as harshly, as she would have otherwise, or even as, say, Bergman. CAPISH? AFTER TODD'S DEATH, SHE GOT A PASS!!!!

This is HOW I AM FEELING RIGHT NOW

R313, I've been wondering: Did Mike Todd have anything to do with advancing Elizabeth Taylor along her career path?

Of COURSE HE DID. He got her parts in the BLOODY cat on the Hot tin FUCKING roof!!!! AND 'suddenly last FRIGGING summer! '. Her paraded her with a TIARA. Signaling she was now the queen of HOLLYWOOD. He said to the press that ' the time not spent in bed with her was a waste' making her a sex symbol. Before him she was marketed as the little fiancee of America. WHERE WERE YOU ???? In outer space ?????

Darwin Porter wrote that Grace had a threeway with Liz and Eddie, who had more than enough for both gals.

Audrey always had film offers. No idea where this idea arose that she was out of favor. Ever.

Darwin Porter is a fat slob writer of pure fiction. Only idiots pay to read his crap. If you want to read nonsense like that write it yourself.

r324 You mean . . . the public forgive Liz hooking up with her friend Debbie's hubby Eddie *right after* Todd died - because Todd died?

And then, upon ditching Eddie for the married Richard in 1963, Liz was again forgiven - all because of Todd dying way back in 1958?!

Holy fly it must have been being a widowed star in the 50s and 60s! You really can get away with anything!

"But didn't suffer the same BACKLASH as hepburn, who was burnt at the feminist's stake in the late 60's."

Poor Hepburn. If only Ferrer had died in 1967 she would've been spared.

r329 The idea came from the string of flops Hepburn settled for in the 70s - 80s.

Watched a documentary where Albert speaks in English. He has a fairly lowbrow American accent. At first I thought he was from somewhere like Texas but he speaks like his mother.

Grace should have married r327's version of Mike Todd. She would have been the one leaving behind a billion dollar estate to grateful descendents then.

R331. But you didn't see the stacks of scripts she rejected. She could have worked 24/7 but she chose not to.

And there was no feud with Julie Andrews as reported. That claim is quite amusing as they were friends who often socialized in Gstaad where they both had homes.

Hello R317, R313 here again - haha - Dude! You're really trippin' here! - what's with all the dramatic response to my original statement? - I think that you just may be a bit too emotionally invested in this topic, and for God knows what reason - Actually, I DO know plenty about Taylor, and I could go on and on by memory alone, but what would that accomplish? - From strictly a business standpoint, Taylor was a big money maker for the studio system (MGM) - it was inevitable that she be given good dramatic material, a good vehicle to keep the money rolling in - she, herself, negotiated the $500k fee for "Suddenly....." - She, herself, negotiated the $1M fee for Cleopatra as a complete fluke! -the whole basis for my initial comment was in giving props to Taylor as being a child who grew up in the studio system and LEARNED THE BUSINESS GAME during the process - she was not your ordinary, run of the mill Hollywood actress/movie star - this chick had a hell of a business mind - I'm just giving her props, man - why attack me? - Not cool, dude - Not cool - As far as "The public forgiving Liz" that's just more silly shit - If there be no such thing as "bad publicity," then there was really nothing to forgive - the greatest role Taylor played was the one she played OFF SCREEN - her own life! - laughing all the way to the bank - Sure, the public talked it's shit, may have even condemned her, but at the end of the day no matter what they said, they always ended with "WE WONDER WHAT SHE'LL DO NEXT" - Elizabeth was just the ho that the public loved to hate, and she knew it - and she took it in stride - and it's a matter of record that no matter what she did, she just kept rising higher and higher - Yeah, I give props to Liz - Now, you have a nice day, R317

Marilyn would have gotten those Oscars and the Cleopatra role had she married that Hollywood God Todd according to r327.

r335 is right on the money

I know all that! my best friend whose father was a high rank diplomat at the ( undisclosed) embassy in Rome, was classmate with LUCA DOTTI. I know firsthand that Audrey Hepburn was raising her son in Italy. BUT THE MAJOR CRITICS OF THE DAY WERE AGAINST HER TOO. BACKLASH BACKLASH BACKLASH. Why don't you KNOW that ???

r334 And do we know if those *projects* Audrey supposedly rejected were gonna offer her the kinda million dollar salary like with MFL? Could she have continued to get a million dollar per movie into the 70s - like fellow Old Hollywood megastar Liz did - had she continued working? Or would she have ended up making far less and thus dimming her A-List prestige? Also, was she willing to play mother-roles to leading actresses like Liz had started to do in the late 60s? Ultimately Audrey retired because at age 37 - looking 47, acting 17 - she was no longer getting the kind of quality offers she believed befitting a megastar of her statue.

Which statue would that be, r339?

Some of these Taylor fangurls are crazy. She peaked looks-wise in the late 50s, was a shitty actress and a whore. That she had money- well, she can attribute that to the fags (including her father).

Thanks R337, you and only you have kept your sanity on this thread. Taylor survived longer because she was displaying depths and talent that hadn't been suspected before, but Hepburn was OUT OF FASHION. Unlike the new stars, she showed no interests in politics, in vietnam, in feminism. She only seemed fashion obsessed and vapid. She said it herself, you hepburn bio readers. ' I am done in Hollywood, Mia Farrow will play my roles now'. She was WASHED UP and she KNEW it.

Well, this is getting a bit amusing as Audrey and Elizabeth were friends as well so there's no need to try to create tension there I think it would be a mistake to compare their personal and professional aspirations as they were quite different.

Are you really going to insist AH looked old and washed up by 1967 while Elizabeth looked younge r and more beautiful? That sun damaged heifer?

[quote] Some of these Taylor fangurls are crazy. She peaked looks-wise in the late 50s, was a shitty actress and a whore. That she had money- well, she can attribute that to the fags (including her father).

Agreed EXCEPT the shit actress bit. As an adult, she was excellent in: place in the sun,Maggie the cat, secret ceremony, virginia woolf, boom and a few more. EXCELLENT. But she could really SUCK

This thread was about ME!!!

Word to everything r342 said. As I recall Hepburn's note was somewhat bitter when she made the statement about Mia. She herself knew how with Mia Farrow in vogue the wrinkled and non-political model was on her way out.

"Audrey and Elizabeth were friends as well so there's no need to try to create tension there" - r343

"Are you really going to insist AH looked old and washed up by 1967 while Elizabeth looked younge r and more beautiful? That sun damaged heifer?" - also r 343

LOL

Elizabeth, unlike Audrey, was willing to play older women role. She was even a mother-figure to Mia Farrow in Secret Ceremony.

And yes, she was indeed younger and more beautiful AND less sun damaged than that wrinkled waistless stack of bones that Audrey became by early as *1966* at 36, see r294

Attach high res candid of Taylor in *1974* at the older age of *42*.

r345 Then, Grace, did you or did you not have that cat fight with Audrey over William Holden? Did you ever *have dinner* with Brenda Marshall the way Audrey did?

I expect such coldness from a WASP, not a good Catholic girl!

More 70s Grace, partying with Liz and Dick.

Again partying with Liz and Dick

I am sorry, catfight with Audrey who?

-And the they asked if you had a catfight with her over my dick!

See Grace, I 've been on top of this tower too.

And then, she said you're 'in love with her"

Brilliant!

Time is unkind to smokers and drinkers.

- Paris when it Fizzles, flopping hard in 1964

Monaco Royals + Liz. Mid 70s.

Liz should have given the ungrateful elder Princess a talking to as they tanned together.

The Prince and the Shrew

Bitch doesn't have a clue . . . . . . . . .

Wasn't there something funny about Liz being older-looking than Audrey in 1967 upthread?

Candid from 1967, Elizabeth Taylor at the world premiere of The Taming of the Shrew.

One more from same event

Grace 1967

Audrey 1967

Grace partied some more with Dick and Liz, 1970s

More

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Grace, with Liz standing between her and Hollywood God Todd.

Wow. After Ignoring a certain Someone, I jump from one post to the next by increments of 7.

An affair to remember?

One more Dick and Grace

I have a feeling I know just who this nutcase with the Audrey Hepburn hate-on is. And he IS a nutcase, and nothing he says is true. Poor Aspie-addled dope.

Liz had wretched taste in clothes. Every once in awhile she looked good, but mostly tacky- even for the time periods.

Example of elegance from that time period.

Grace was almost never tacky throughout the 60s and 70s. Thought she's a royal which might've restricted what she could and could not wear.

This is as retro as Grace got. And it's still better than most other celebs from those periods.

I like these caesuras. I can go pee. Make some popcorn. Call for take-out.

But...I... DID... ask Liz for parenting tips me...

Please, can we get back to Monaco, Grace, her daughter Caroline, the Grimadis........

I had to block the I hate Audrey Hepburn troll. What kind of an arsehole feels the need to come on a Grace Kelly thread and bash another actress endlessly? Especially one so universally adored? What a fuckwit you are.

Olalah R378, c'est en francaise. Comme c'est jolie. Une baguette s'il vous plait.

lol @ r377

When i was a young boy I was sent to stay with my uncle in Venice for some weeks and then we learned of Princess' Grace's death. I recall the heat from the sun reflecting off the limestone onto my legs as I held my uncle's hand and i listened to him talk excitedly with his Briscola buddies about Grace

i remember it so clearly because her death was a very significant event. Absolutely everyone was talking about it as if Grace were family.

Yes, Grace was and still is loved by many. Turns out it would be her now elderly eldest daughter feeling the need to harp on her being some coldhearted parent ages ago. It is as sad as it is sensational, which explains our being here reading and posting on a thread titled "Grace Kelly Exposed As A Coldhearted Parent by Eldest Daughter".

Will Maximilian Rainier, Princess Caroline‘s fifth grandchild who came to this world unnoticed because Great Britain (HarpersBAZAAR's words, not mine), inherit grandma's ungrateful genes? What revelations of cold parenting and rocky childhood can we expect from this little royal in the years to come? If karma exist, future Maximillian should have interesting stories to tell about his grandma.

A little OT, but do any of you know why the movie, "Ash Wednesday" starring Elizabeth & Henry Fonda has never been released on DVD? I remember seeing it at the movies.

Here you go, R384. It's the full movie if you can tolerate the Russian guy's commentary in the background. "Ash Wednesday"

I saw it on youtube R384. Sometimes when there is a conflct between a studio that produced a movie and another that owns the distribution rights, as is the case for 'the deep blue sea', they can't get a dvd release

Calling R384, calling R384! I found a better copy of "Ash Wednesday" for you, one without the Russian dubbing, and in it's original English language. You may have to click on play a few times after the pop ups, but it will eventually begin playing. Yours, R385

I didn't dislike the movie, Bess was brave, but I would love to see Bacall in that part. Bessie Mae is playing herself. Again. She was millions way better in secret ceremony, as the tacky low class aging prostitute.

This is supposed to be about princess grace, Elizabeth Taylor fans should start their own freaking thread

R129, not true. Original royals fled Monaco palace when attacked by Italian pirates.

If Grace had stopped drinking more than likely her depression would have dissipated and she could have led a happier life. At that time the link between drinking and depression wasn't understood.

But she ran with Euro celebs and Hollywood stars who drank, drugged and partied hard, not exactly an environment for sobriety.

Dot be silly R390, it most certainly is true. Prince Rainier’s great grandfather marred the daughter of the Scottish Duke of Hamilton and his wife Princess Marie Amélie of Baden. Through Princess Marie Amélie’s Baden bloodline, the Grimaldi’s can claim kinship with countless European royal and princely Houses.

[quote] If Grace had stopped drinking more than likely her depression would have dissipated and she could have led a happier life. At that time the link between drinking and depression wasn't understood.

Yes, in 1981 everyone thought alcoholics were just happy-go-lucky clowns.

I LOOK LIKE GLORIA FUCKING SWANSON!!!

R332 I was shocked the forst time I hear Princess Caroline speak. She sounded like a truck driver/Janice Dickinson.

^^ first

Smoking, drinking and sun damage have taken a huge toll on Princess Caroline and Stephanie.

How can anyone claim this woman isn't a stunning beauty?

Princess Charlotte is unbelievably beautiful. Rainier's mother's looks mixed in with Grace's produced a gorgeous Caroline and her daughter, Charlotte. Albert and Stephanie lost out in the looks dept.

I’ve heard interviews with Caroline, to me she sounds European. More so as she got older. Stephanie sounds like a typical American but her French sounds pretty authentic, some of her English words occasionally sound a little clipped with some sort of accent . Albert also sounds like an American with a not very distinguished suburban middle class accent. Supposedly Rainier was very harsh and strict with the children insisting on perfect French and Albert spoke it the worst which made him terrified, and that to this day he stammers in French (and says “uhh”) but speaks completely at ease in English.

This is a bit silly. All three are absolutely fluent and speak perfect French.

Yes, Princess Charlotte is probably the most beautiful royal of all time. Absolutely stunning.

Anyone else notice that Prince Albert has a likeness to Frank Sinatra?

When did Frank buy his villa on Cap Ferrat?

[quote] Princess Charlotte is unbelievably beautiful.

When was Charlotte Casiraghi granted the title of princess??

[quote]Princess Charlotte is unbelievably beautiful. Rainier's mother's looks mixed in with Grace's produced a gorgeous Caroline and her daughter, Charlotte. Albert and Stephanie lost out in the looks dept.

Yes, she's pretty but like her Aunt Stephanie had a child out of wedlock and broke up with the father (an obscure stand-up comedian), soon afterward. She's supposedly engaged now to a man usually described in the media as "the son of actress Carole Bouquet" (he produced a couple of French films). She seems as headstrong as her mother when it comes to men. Her taste in partners is markedly different from her brothers, both of whom knocked it out of the park with their choice of wives. Andrea, the oldest is married to a Columbian heiress worth billions (her relative recently wed the daughter - now sister, of the Duke of Westminster) and younger brother Pierre married an Italian aristocrat named Beatrice Borromeo, who while not nearly as rich is one of the most stylish and fashionable women in Europe.

While certainly rich, I don't think the wives of Princess Caroline's sons are that attractive. Borromeo has linebacker shoulders.

R404 You are right. Charlotte's not a princess. This article is old. She's now 9th in line to the throne in Monaco and pregnant w/ the child of her fiancé, Dimitri Rassam

Excerpt: Charlotte does not have a royal title as Monaco's titles come as favors from the Prince, and her mother refused titles for her children at their births. "I'm not a princess," she told French Vogue. "My mother is, not I. I am the niece of a head of state. And with this status, I have some representational duties, nothing very constraining or very exceptional."

This thread is not complete without Grace according to Richard Burton's Diaries.

We picked up Grace at 32, Avenue Foche which doesn't seem to be the Embassy and I forgot to ask Son Altesse if it was or not.[...] Grace and E chatted away at the back of the car while I sat in front beside the driver. Grace was nice and relaxed and, after the initial awkwardness which I always feel with people like Grace who are in a somewhat false position and know it, everybody talked freely.

Grace went into a blow by blow description of the Shah of Iran's famous or infamous party. Grace defended its extravagance with extraordinary obtuseness though neither of us attacked it.

It was meant, she said, as a tribute to the people of Persia and as self-advertisement for the Shah's magnificent governing which was bringing literacy to the illiterate and hygiene to the unwashed and culture to the brutish. She described the Shah as a marvellous man and once called him a great man which is going a titch too far.

She said how monstrous it was of the Western Press to be so vulgarly cynical of the whole show, all of them she said she knew for a fact writing their stuff before the thing had really got going. E was sweet and said that yes I mean Tito and the Hungarians and other communist countries were there and didn't seem to be particularly put out by the obvious ‘capitalism’ of the whole thing. Absolutely said Grace and said it was a marvellous thing to see people of such enormous disparity in religions politics and races finally warming to each other after the birth-pangs of meeting and how a little chinaman who was stiff and unsmiling and reserved and talked only through an interpreter was by the last day chatting a mile a minute radiant with smiles in impeccable English to all and sundry.

So there. It all goes to show that we are brothers under the skin. And why for heaven's sake doesn't the Western Press attack its own spending of zillions a year on advertisements, corrupting the minds of the young and the stupid with their idiotics. And so on. One didn't suggest that it might perhaps have been more helpful to his appallingly poor people if he had promoted a sort of World's Fair, an Expo 71 or something and have the other people pay for the advertising. The ‘do’ of the Shah's was supremely silly under any circumstances and if it was to celebrate the extraordinary advances made for the benefit of his people then it was inane to the point of simple-mindedness

After a time wandering about Grace asked me to see her upstairs and help her remove her borrowed choker and get her to her car. I suppose it was about 1.30. This I did nearly strangling Grace to death while trying to get the necklace off.

For a minute she was in bad trouble as the necklace got twisted up as a result of my inept handling of the clasp as the bloody thing was too tight in the first place and, in fact, I had told her before we went down to the ball that she ought to remove it telling her she didn't need it. However, we finally twisted it around so that she herself could see it in the mirror and finally we released her. Even when off it took considerable strength to unclasp it.

So down the stairs we went together. At the bottom, alone, was Sam Spiegel. ‘Where are you going you two?’ ‘For God's sake’, said G, ‘don't Sam say a word to Elizabeth. She's at the Ball, she's dancing, she's happy, let us go. Richard will let Elizabeth know. It's going to be a shock but ... these things happen.’ Etc.

For a full 1/2 minute Sam, because of Grace's normal seriousness and because of her very good piece of acting and my deliberately stricken-with-guilt face, was taken in. We made off. Found Grace's car after a lot of waiting in the piercing cold and she was gone. She was quite the nicest she's ever been and David Rothschild expressed astonishment that she could be so gay. She had always he said been a bit of a dead weight. On the contrary, we said, but she does need a little drawing out. Actually it is the nicest she has been in all the years since we've known her as a Princess.

At one moment during the choking choker episode I saw mental front-pages in France Soir’s and News of the World’s lurid headlines. Famed Actor Strangles Princess in Bedroom at Rothschild Mansion During Grand Ball.

"......During the time of the Scandale ,when we were front-page and vulgar sensationalism every other day and every paper. Much lesser people cut us dead, even, if you please, people from our own profession.

An idiot like Audrey Hepburn, for instance, a supposedly long time friend of E's was unobtainable on the phone and refused to acknowledge flowers that were sent her for her birthday.

David Niven was toffee-nosed too, though he has apologized since. Grace wouldn't have been seen dead in our company though I'm sure now that Rainier didn't give a bugger. We didn't give a bugger either and were perfectly content to be left alone..."

r335 and 342 etc are old film buffs who know what they're talking about

r282/r315 /r371/r379 etc stans to be offended

Lets face it, the worlds innovators, creators, brains, and greatest that have added to humanity always come from humble beginnings.

The rich ruin their kids.

Philly girl.

The Burtons should always be allowed on this thread. They partied so often with the Monaco Royals they're practically extended family.

r342 truly words had never been spoken

I mean truer.