Did JFK really love Jackie?

What's love got to do with it?

Maybe he was charmed by her.....I could see that....

I'm sure he loved her as deeply as any good husband can love their wife.

He needed a "respectable" woman to bear his heirs while he whored around with women.

Marriages among people like that at that time were alliances.

JFK was kind. I think he loved her or was very fond of her.

Who can say?

R6 - Kind? Never heard JFK described as kind.

Of course their marriage was largely an arrangement. He needed a publicity-friendly wife if he wanted a major political career, and she needed a husband with big bucks. Of course they both had major flaws, he was a massive slut and needed a wife who'd tolerate that, and she cared much more about having money to spend than politics.

Amazingly enough, given that, they seemed quite fond of each other. Of they went their separate ways to some extent and ignored a hell of a lot of stuff, but they were both intelligent and charming people and enjoyed each other's company and produced several children (two surviving them). Kennedy was such a slut that he really had no business getting married, but really, he could hardly have picked a more suitable wife if he'd gone to the world's greatest Yenta for a match. Any other woman would have left him, or killed him.

Don't you think it's kind of sad that Jackie was married off?

We've discussed Jackie extensively on another thread, R10, and no, I'm not sad because she married for money. True, she was raised rich yet had no money of her own, but that doesn't mean she had no other options. She had an excellent education and good contacts, she could have had a career if she'd wanted one. Sure, it's highly unlikely that she would have earned a fortune, but she could have supported herself and had her independence. Or she could have married for love rather than money, and lived a different and less luxurious lifestyle. I won't say that lots of women of her era did either, but some did.

But Jackie didn't want love or independence, she wanted shit-tons of money to spend. She made her choices and I presume she was satisfied with the results, and she did end up independently wealthy.

Bump.

Was Jackie considered a great beauty? Because I don’t see it...odd facial features with the hands and feet of a linebacker.

I don't think JFK was capable of loving anyone.

"Was Jackie considered a great beauty? "

No, she was considered to be so chic and stylish that her looks hardly mattered!

She was following Mamie Eisenhower, Bess Truman, and Eleanor Roosevelt, remember. She was an attractive woman rather than a beauty, but next to her predecessors she looked like a supermodel.

He told me he did.

" I said if I ever fell in love I'd marry her and I did. "... John F. Kennedy

Marriages for love are for the working classes dear.

It was an alliance, yes, but I think he came to love her. And R17 is right.

I am baffled by Jackie's icon status. She was a snide, selfish, greedy and materialistic whore who cared nothing for people below her class . At one point Vanity fair insisted on having that fish eyed, big footed bitch on every other cover.

Did Ike really love Mamie? That's what I want to know.

I think Jackie loved him, though.

Did King Arthur really Guinevere? Print the legend... .

Jackie was gorgeous and an icon to women everywhere. She brought the White House into the modern age. She had highly keen decorating skills as well as a first class taste for fashion. She raised two smart children and worked a real job as an editor in a publishing company. The fact that she went out into the working world like ordinary people shows you that she was not a snob. She didn't have to do that as she was already wealthy.

She was also a humanitarian who gave a lot of her time to charities.

Love and romance is for movies and storybooks. In real life, marriages are mergers. In politics, marriages are an understanding and a contract for power.

His mother was a cold bitch who showed Jack zero emotional love or connection. Jack use to complain about it as a little kid as she was always off to Europe. It was her passive aggressive behavior towards her husband because he openly cheated on her. Unfortuantely Joe Kennedy couldnt have cared less what Rose thought. It was the kids that suffered, Jack never loved any woman other than maybe a sibling kind of love, not emotionally capable/ when he was prez and he and jackie were together privately the secret service use to view their relationship as brother and sister..........I am not implying Jack didnt like sex with women or was he anything but straight........ but he didnt respect women. Toward the end I think he admired Jackie in that she was an enormous political asset

She was and will always be an Icon.

I wish she would have given a true account from her perspective of the day he was assassinated. What did she hear? Was she really scooping up brains on the back of the limo or was she fleeing? What are her thoughts about who really killed him?

You could tell the assassination of Bobby just sent her over the edge.

I've read in a number of places that they'd grown closer together in the Fall of 1963 after their premature son Patrick died of pulmonary problems. It was emotionally devastating for both of them to lose the child.

He was quoted as having told someone close to him during his Presidency that he loved her as much as he was able and always tried to support her, even if he never had intentions of sexual fidelity. Ironically even though he dogged around like a rock star in his prime, he and Jackie supposedly still had a decent sex life up until the end.

The death of their still born son a few months before his assassination supposedly deepened their bond and had him re-thinking his marital attitudes. He was supposedly faithful to her those last few months and stayed closer since they were grieving.

Even Marilyn complained there was no foreplay.

OP Hold a seance and ask them

How many times did he give her the syph?

JFK loved Jackie enough. But he did not love monogamy.

[quote] I am baffled by Jackie's icon status. She was a snide, selfish, greedy and materialistic whore who cared nothing for people below her class

You've just described 99% of gay men, and you wonder why Jackie is considered an icon??

The rumor was that JFK gave Jackie an STI that caused Patrick to be born premature and sickly.

[quote] The rumor was that JFK gave Jackie an STI that caused Patrick to be born premature and sickly.

I believe it!!

R34 I doubt it. Jackie had problems with all of her pregnancies. She smoked, too.

He liked cheap floozies like Marilyn. Jackie was a lanky debutante with big feet.

R37 I must be the only one on the planet who has never found Jackie or Marilyn attractive.

[quote] She had highly keen decorating skills as well as a first class taste for fashion.

Her good friend, Bunny Mellon, was responsible for a lot of the decorating.

Very well stated R33

Jackie had a keen and sophisticated mind regardless of her shortcomings. She appreciated art, culture and western history. She was well read and interested in the larger world. It’s a shame about her materialism as I believe she was an otherwise remarkable woman.

I wonder if the reason why she had difficulties staying pregnant was because Jack kept giving her the clap! It happened more than once.

No,he didn't "love" her. He needed a wife, a particular kind of woman, and she seemed like the right type for a rich man who had serious political aspirations. She didn't love him, either. It was an arranged marriage. I think in time they became "fond" of each other, but "love?" No, that was not a love match, not by a long shot.

I think he came to love her.

She was attractive but not conventionally beautiful. She could look beautiful at times. She just had a very sophisticated, elegant look about her.

Jackie smoked during her pregnancies.

I think he came to greatly appreciate her, if not love her. She did a great job in the WH as First Lady, he had to have read and heard the feedback in the press about her while they were there.

I don't believe at all that they would have stayed married post-presidency, had JFK lived. Both would have been relatively young in '68. She would have moved to NYC to raise the kids while he stayed behind in DC, spending enough time together to keep the gossips at bay. Divorced (or at least openly separated) by the late 70s.

And you bet both would have gotten re-married.

Why we talkin bout this beeotch 50 yrs later. They don't call my man trickey Dick for nothin.

Most people smoked during pregnancy in those times and during the 70's and 80's.

By many accounts, Pat Nixon was an artistic and cultured person as well. She had the misfortune of being married to a highly neurotic, insecure man.

Richard Nixon beat Pat black and blue during a drunken rage, he also ordered a nuclear strike while drunk.

One has to wonder what goes on in the WH right now with Trump being an out of control madman. Maybe Bob Woodward's book will spill some of the beans.

[quote]The rumor was that JFK gave Jackie an STI that caused Patrick to be born premature and sickly.

Her three-pack-a-day smoking habit was the likely cause of the premature birth.

Jackie spoke fluent French and Spanish. She charmed de Gaulle. Her language skills helped US foreign policy in Latin America.

The skinny is that Jack beat Jackie. That was the gossip in Hyannis Port. Whoever said she was a breath of fresh air after Mamie and Bess is correct.

Their marriage was a mutually beneficial arrangement.

Both were products of media spin. Both egotistical, selfish, shallow and greedy. Neither of them had any socially redeeming value.

R54, Jackie played a significant role in saving Grand Central Station as well as the restoration of the White House. Although I find her Onassis years very off putting, Jackie certainly had a social conscience when it came to preservation. She stood nothing to gain by advocating for historical spaces. If you want to see selfish, shallow and greedy without any redeeming value, look at Lee Bouvier.

R19= Pat Nixon

I read somewhere that longtime WH staff listed Pat Nixon as their favourite First Lady. She was apparently very kind and appreciative to the staff.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Pat Nixon was a lifelong smoker as well.

JFK was cold as ice. When Jackie gave birth to a stillborn child, JFK was yachting in the Mediterranean with George Smathers, Teddy and a boatload of hookers. When he was informed she had given birth and the baby died, he said he didn't see any reason to cut short his vacation. Then Smathers told him if he didn't go home to be with his wife, that would be the end of the marriage and end of his political career.

Oh stop with the character take downs of them. I don't believe one single word. JFK beat her? Bwhwhahahaha riiiiight.

He was going to put his presidency on the line for civil rights. It is why he feared going to Tx.

Joe Kennedy Jr. was a Nazi sympathizer as well. On a visit to Germany he wrote a letter back to his father saying that he admired what the Nazis did with sterilizing gays and mentally disabled people.

He was fond of her but I don’t believe he loved her.

Say what you want about Jackie but she went out and got an office job even though she didn't have to. She had millions and millions of dollars and could've been a jet-setter socialite if she'd wanted to, but she went to work full-time. I've always liked that about her.

Jackies sister Lee was the jet-setting socialite sister. She also clung on to men to marry to finance her glamorous lifestyle.

But it was Jackie who in the end got lucky financially. She walked away from the Onasiss marriage with a $26 million dollar cash settlement. Giving her something she wanted her entire life. A mhm d that was to be independently wealthy. I'm sure Lee was very jealous of Jackie having that kind of money.

What is Love anyway, does anybody love anybody anyway?

[quote] Don't you think it's kind of sad that Jackie was married off?

I lie awake nights crying about it.

R54 I agree . Anyways Jackie wasn't really capable of love herself. Nasty materialistic whore. They deserved each other. What's strange is the extent to which the mythology about Camelot continues. And frankly, I never found Jackie attractive. She had fish eyes and a head shaped like Stewies from Family Guy.

R68 = MARY! Puuuuhleeze!

By her own words, the first time you marry is for love, the second is for money, and the third (not always a marriage) is for companionship.

I've read books on the family and the individual Kennedys as much as or more than anyone else here, I'd wager, and never read of Jackie's "multiple STDs" from JFK, his "beating" her, or the suggestion that Jackie's smoking was a factor in Patrick's death.

JFK had to have a wife - no exceptions. Jackie fit the bill very, very nicely for a number of reasons - among them, she had the pedigree, she was unique in manner and appearance, and she was Catholic. She was very photogenic, charismatic, and possessed the "it" factor. She was a star. As such, JFK knew that he had the makings of the ideal political wife (even though she hated politics). She gave him class. For those who insist that she was a gold digger, I agree but nevertheless assert that it's a moot point. She was always going to marry rich regardless. She was raised to do so, and no man without money would ever be considered as marriage material. Her mother raised her daughters to be the perfect society wives, and though she may have grated on their nerves ceaselessly with her unwavering objectives, it must be noted that she did right by them - she never lost focus of the expectation. It was all par for the course.

Did JFK love Jackie? Well, she certainly loved him - she did. That said, however, we must consider the very valid fact that these people were from a different world than most of us. Their love for one another would not be the same as the love between a working poor couple, for example. Not only were the Kennedys extremely wealthy, but they had a lust for POWER as well. I do believe that she loved the man, himself, but she also loved what he brought to her life - money, power, the very top of the social structure - he'd made her a Queen, essentially. Now, as for JFK loving her - I think he did, but not in the way that you and I think of romantic, poetic love - NO! He was never that guy. Our childhoods effect us more than we know as adults. I won't bother going into all of that, but we must consider JFK's relationship with his mother, Rose, in order to assess and answer the OP's question. Given the facts of the matter, it's always conclusive that JFK loved the ladies - that would be the overwhelming opinion. I beg to differ. I would say that he did NOT like women. All the fucking aside, we have to delve deeper into the psychological aspect of his ceaseless philandering. His sexual behavior was NOT normal, and it just may be that the catalyst for this behavior was a strong resentment for his mother. I think he was six years old when he told her once "Gee, you're a fine mother to go off and leave your children all alone" as she was preparing to leave for one of those two month long trips. I have personally known a man who fucked a never ending stream of women simply for the sake of fucking them. He told me things of several occasions which strongly suggested a deep resentment for his own mother. JFK's childhood experience with his cold, uncaring mother would influence the way he viewed women as an adult male, no doubt. He disrespected and disregarded them as a matter of course - he USED them. Jackie, however, was his wife and as his wife, she would be given consideration and care all the others would never receive from him. She not only received status as his wife in the public/societal/political arena, but she had status with him, personally, for being his wife - to a point. He recognized her as his wife and the mother of his children. Did JFK love Jackie? Yes. As much as he could, and certainly more than any other. He was emotionally/psychologically damaged, I believe.

They’ve killed Jack, where will I get money now? I owe Oleg Cassini $350,000. I wonder if my sister Lee knows anyone....?

JFK was handsome and charismatic, Jackie had style and class, I'm sure there was some love there.

JFK was in the position that Charles of England later found himself: You're my heir, you're in your 30s, get married NOW. Jackie was the right person at the right time, regardless of how the marriage then went.

"She did a great job in the WH as First Lady."

Not really. Oh, she was very stylish. And Americans were thrilled to have a "young" First Lady. But she was lazy and self centered. I think she stood up a Girl Scout troop who had come to the White House to see her. And she was so snobby that she wanted to have a fence put up around the White House do that average Americans couldn't get a look at her little darling playing outside. Jackie was a right snot.

She was a snobby overrated cunt. If she were around today she would be an indulged trophy wife posting on Urban Baby. Listen to the recording of her remarks to a journalist that was released a few years ago. Nothing but snideness and nastiness towards people who she happily accepted expensive gifts from. And that greedy std ridden whore actually had the nerve to judge other people.

"I put her (Jackie) first in everything.I give her anything she wants.".. John F. Kennedy

"I put her first in everything....except where I put my dick" - JFK

They'd never have married if he hadn't had a political career. They may have had an affair, because IMHO they were intrigued and attracted by each other, but the marriage happened strictly because Kennedy needed a wife who was suitable for public life.

He never should have married. He was that rare thing, the straight man who was "One of nature's bachelors".

Every man wants a harem, a girl for every mood.

"... she went out and got an office job even though she didn't have to."

Her position was largely for face value, to give the place cache'.

I think for both JFK and Onassis, Jackie was a trophy wife, to advance their image.

I don't blame her for marrying Onassis for his money.

I always thought she was ugly and suffered from borderline hypertelorism. She was also lazy, self-absorbed and cold. The only thing that seemed to matter to her during both her marriages was money; Joe Kennedy Sr was able to buy her silence over JFK’s affairs with cash.

Why she became some kind of style icon is beyond me, however, maybe you had to be around at the time to understand why.

You have to remember that Jackie's immediate predecessor was DL fave Mamie Eisenhower, the Frumpiest Frau who ever Frumped. After 8 years of this, Jackie looked like a goddess from Mount Olympus.

Notable quotes from JBKO, and notable because she very rarely shared her essential self with the public:

"You and I were never really part of this WASP world, Fifi (friend, Fifi Fell). I've always felt like an outsider to it."

"I am always happiest alone."

No one really knew her, I mean REALLY knew her outside of her immediate family. I don't think we can base her entire character on assumed motives alone. We all know the things she did such as marrying Onassis, etc, but we don't know her absolute true motives. We know the things she did to him like defrauding him of his money with the clothes shopping and reselling at thrift shops, but we really don't know the things he did to her. Onassis was not a nice guy. Someone described him as being "an extremely charming sociopath." She may have been a person who did good deeds in total privacy with no publicity attached to them. I've read on DL posts by people scoffing at the $400 per month she gave to Big Edie. That sum in the mid 70's was like $2500 today. Who knows who she REALLY was.

I agree R86.

Supposedly JBK had affairs also. She had an affair with Bill Holden,. The reason that JFK was not interested in coming home was because he thought the stillborn Arabella was not his kid. Jackie wanted to divorce him several times, but her father-in-law always intervened.

That's what I've always thought, R72. I've read books about them. I think they loved each other as much as they were able. I also think there were times in the marriage when things were better and sometimes worse.

They we're meant to be a power couple from the very beginning. Their relationship wasn't an accident.

They we're both after something. And they both got what they wanted.

For the most part anyway.

[quote]Why she became some kind of style icon is beyond me, however, maybe you had to be around at the time to understand why

She was a style icon similar to the way that Sarah Jessica “Horseface” Parker is a style icon today.

How come Kennedy sen was a Nazi but all his children turned out to be staunch democrats?

And many of his granddaughters married Jews...

Not his grandsons, though...

Speaking of the Edies, Jackie always got shit for not doing something sooner. I've always thought that maybe she had no idea what was going on until it made the news. The Edies were Jackie's extended family and not everyone is close to their extended family members, which seemed to be the case with Jackie. I have cousins whom I haven't seen in years and I have no idea what their houses look like. If I had a cousin who was on the news for being a filthy hoarder, I would be just as shocked as everyone else.

R11 you can't use 21st century moires and customs and apply them to the 1940s and 50s. Women (of all classes) were raised to believe marriage,children was the ultimate goal for a woman. Sure she was intelligent and educated; that paled beside the need to marry and marry well. Very few women went against that.

That's just the way the world was then.

For those who don't understand her enduring popularity: her husband's head was blown to bits as she sat beside him in a moving car. Afterwards, she produced and stage managed an extravaganza of a state funeral which was seen around the world. A few years later- on the heels of her brother in laws duplicate murder- she married one of the wealthiest men in the world. She then proceeds to lead a life of hedonism and excess. She raises her 2 children successfully; her son was 1 of the most beautiful men who ever lived and her daughter is brilliant and accomplished. She did all this and still remained private and low-key, never once granting an interview.

Say what you will about her choices and decisions, this woman LIVED.

[quote]How come Kennedy sen was a Nazi but all his children turned out to be staunch democrats?

I think Joe Kennedy was new money, desperately wanted access to all the social privileges of wealth and resented the fact that there were some circles to which he didn't have access. This accounted for his political views (he probably resented the Jews) and his pushing his children into politics as a means of achieving what he couldn't. As Catholics of Irish descent, the Democratic party was their only option. (During the 1960 presidential campaign, Republicans pushed the idea that Kennedy would be more loyal to Rome than to the United States.)

For a Democrat, though, JFK certainly pushed an extremist line on the Soviet Union, and it got him into a lot of trouble early on (Bay of Pigs) and worsened US-Soviet relations considerably.

The Bay of Pigs was a half-assed operation that never received the full backing of either the CIA or the President. When the whole thing became a complete disaster, JFK quite rightly blamed the CIA for talking him into it. The CIA on the other hand blamed Kennedy, specifically his failure to provide more air support for the invasion.

The whole fiasco led to a major falling out between the President and the CIA. Kennedy later on tried to reign in the agency, by making it more accountable to both the state department and the President himself.

However, JFK’s assassination brought any serious attempt at reform to an end.

The also-ran Catholics and others spend a lot of time cutting each other's throats while kissing up to the WASPs. This is what makes them also-rans.

Sorry I meant “rein in”

To question Jackie's status as a style icon, or to compare her to SJP, is ludicrous and just demonstrates the lack of taste, history, knowledge and sense of the poster.

Hi r99. What is life in the 1950s like?

"charming people and enjoyed each other's company and produced several children "

R9, we know all that. You sound like a fourteen year old who just found out about the Kennedys. Just read a book or something? Same with a dozen others.

Answer: JFK never loved anyone.

I think R5 has it. For both it was an arrangement. It benefited both parties.

Both R103 amd R104 are both wrong. Jackie and JFK could have married anyone to form a mutually beneficial "alliance." Any wealthy man would have recognized Jackie's many fine qualities, accomplishments, and suitability to being a wealthy man's wife. Vice versa, any debutante raised amid the trappings of wealth and expected to fulfill her duty of marrying well would recognize JFK as a leading contender, despite his well deserved reputation. These two people were going to marry SOMEONE who fit their expectations of the ideal marital partner. So then, what exactly was it which drove the two of them together, specifically? Only they would know the answer to that question.

....

....

R95, R11 here. FYI I was thinking of what life was like for women in the 1950s, when Jacqueline Bouvier was looking for a husband and settled on a very problematic one. I just wanted to make the point that she was not absolutely required to marry for money. She could have married for love rather than money but she didn't, she could have pursued a career, some women of that era did.

But the only way she could be rich was to marry for money, which she did twice. That's what she chose, and I hope she was happy with her choices.

....

....

According to a Lem Billings, JFK complained about JBK’s extremely plain looks, and even told Lem he just didn’t find her attractive. Apparently the marriage was arranged by Joe Kennedy, who basically acted as matchmaker.

Gee, you found the only photos of a political marriage allegedly showing affection.

My favorite Jackie quote: she found a pair of women's underpants in her bed. She fished them out, gave them to JFK and said: "shop around and find out who these belong to. They're not my size."

Next to Marilyn Monroe any woman would have looked unattractive. Did JFK already know MM when he married Jackie? Wasn't there some story that MM thought JFK would marry her, but then instead opted for an educated upper class girl.

What's with all of these publicity photos? They were STAGED for the public for the most part. Are you a fangurl trying to justify your romance with this couple?

Jackie Kennedy - "extremely plain looks"

Yes, R115. Some of the posters here just like being assholes for the sake of being assholes.

She’s a plain Jane in that photo, r115. There’s nothing particularly attractive about her.

I'd say so, R116 - I posted the pics to demonstrate that there was tenderness and intimacy between them. I'm not exactly a stan or a "fangurl" (WETF that means), but I thought I'd take a stab at seriously considering the answer to OP's question. Having read over 50 individual biographical publications regarding this family and it's saga, I felt well qualified to add my two cents. He loved her.

Have a good one!

Jackie probably had what is called a weak cervix. It can't hold up the weight of a fetus that grows heavier inside the womb. It usually takes a premature birth or late term miscarriage before a woman knows she has it. Now a days, they stitch up the cervix after a woman who has this is pregnant, and then cut it when she goes into labor, hopefully, full term. It took a good while before obstetrics figured this out.

R117–so... I know not so much about the Kennedy’s but that is a beautiful woman in the photo. Add to it that she was highly refined and educated, and was a master flirt—supposedly very charming—and you have a very marriagable young woman.

R120: No she’s not. Someone like the young Grace Kelly was a beautiful woman.

She could be striking while striking a pose

She was stick thin, fashionable and charming but I could never get over her face. Her sister is much worse looking IMO, truly fug.

Facial beauty is all about symmetry, and she had great symmetry. I've always appreciated the simplicity of this pic as she is shown to be a very pretty woman without trying to be one. It's casual.

R121, Jackie was an attractive woman, Grace Kelly was a one-in-a-million rare beauty. You can't compare real women to someone like Grace, who was the kind of perfect accident of nature that you could go your whole life without seeing in person.

Jackie was good-looking enough, not a great beauty, but she put so much effort into her clothes, styling, physique, and camera angles that she looked better to the media than most natural beauties. And that's what you call "glamour", a vero old word that originally meant "illusion".

to reply 71.............the stds and Jackies history of miscarriages..............read the book mrs kennedy by barbara leming, it discusses it there. He had syphilis and it did effect her ability to carry a child. Her marriage was really kind of harrowing as Jack was really a sex addict and there were 100 s of women and it was a daily thing. That took a toll on her self esteem and the way she dealt with it was to make herself scarce a lot and didnt spend a lot of concentrated time with him so she could block out his constant infidelities. I dont believe the physical abuse part............not in Jack s nature nor was he in any kind of physical condition to do that..........he was almost a cripple behind the scenes. As to smoking it was something that a huge chunk of the population did at that time and it wasnt considered taboo at the time even during pregnancy...a bit after John was born in 1960 tho, smoking was deemed a risk while pregnant. One other comment........a lot of people seem to feel Jackie wasnt beautiful. I remember one picture of her when she was in her late 30 s and she was married to Onasis. It was in the summer and she was getting off of a launch somewhere from the christina , italy or greece I think, and photographers snapped away and she was astoundingly attractive, as a matter of fact, she actually looked somewhat Greek in the photo....so at times in photos she could appear stunning. My opinion she was very attractive but not a vogue model type beauty. Dont forget, she had brains too. She brought a lot to the table in her marriage to Jack Kennedy, at least as much as he did.

She had an ugly body. Flat chested, no waist, no ass, bow-legged, enormous feet. Not at all JFK's type. He was into voluptuous women (MM, Judith Campbell, etc.).

People were very taken by Jackie then. She was young and pretty and classy. She was what you wanted to see in the White House and representing your country around the world.

Think of how people felt about the Obamas after Hillary’s lack of fashion sense and her hard-to-dress, pear-shaped figure, Bar Bush’s grandmotherly attire, and George W Bush’s hick ways. It was like a glamour couple had polished up the White House with their presence. But the Obamas were a very down to earth couple.

The Kennedys were all wealth, elegance and privilege in the White House. After the Roosevelts’ style was cramped by Depression and war, and the Trumans’ and Eisenhowers’ dowdy older couple demeanor, the Kennedys were a breath of fresh air and very popular. A lot of people grew up with FDR. Old fuddy duddies was all they knew.

Jack brought Jackie to Paris on a political trip and she was a big hit. She spoke French well too. Jack introduced himself as “I am the man who accompanied Jacqueline Kennedy to Paris, and I have enjoyed it.” He knew her worth.

She was probably a much bigger success than he realized she would be when he married her, like Prince Charles and Diana. But Jack wasn’t jealous of Jackie. He was a confident man and he had a good sense of humor. He thought of her as an asset, not a competitor.

^He was proud of her!

He was both proud of her, and proud of making a good deal with his marriage.

He never would have married (or never should have), but a career in politics required a wife. He got a very good deal in Jackie, she was a hit with the media and with diplomats, and she produced two lovely photogenic children. And since he never let her spend much of his money, IMHO he actually got the better deal out of their arrangement.

Their marriage was pretty much a contract for image and political aspirations. Eventually it worked for marriages at the level...class and politics. He was known not to be a very good lover...

The new rich, which is basically what they were, rarely have an opportunity or take the opportunity to know people who are of a different race, religion or class wise. Their purpose is to enjoy life ...It was only after JFK was murdered that Bobby and Teddy became more socially conscious as far as those who had less etc.

Rose was aware that good looks count...Joe Sr. preached "it's not what you are that's important, it's what people think you are." Tough crowd...not surpised that they wouldn't have been impressed with Nazis/Hitler's rise to power they were new to that climb and probably admired those who skipped rungs up the ladder.

I also think that all the negative accusations about these people..Jackie O , Princess Diana etc are a bit unfair...all of us possess those traits from time to time and according to the circumstances...

Well to be fair, all this romantic marriage for the sake of burning love horse shit is a relatively recent invention propagated by all the sappy love drivel cranked out by Hollywood in it's heyday. Take me back to the simple days: "Look, I'm horny and I know you are too. We need to get married so we can fuck ourselves silly. I'll bring home the bacon and you'll fry it in the pan. Deal?"

R128 and De Gaulle said after meeting her "celle-la finira sur le yacht d'un armateur grec" - clairvoyant

^Translation: I can see her on the yacht of some Greek shipping tycoon in the future. Yes, clairvoyant and spooky

She wrote the following poem at the age of 10. Hyannis Port and Palm Beach here I come!

“When I go down by the sandy shore

I can think of nothing I want more

Than to live by the booming sea

As the seagulls flutter round about me

I can run about--when the tide is out

With the wind and the sand and the sea all about

And the seagulls are swirling and diving for fish

Oh-to live by the sea is my only wish.”

Jfk had crappy health how did he shtupp all of these women?

^Very, very quickly. It wasn't so much as he being the great lover. Rather, he was like a dog with fire hydrants.

"Look, I'm horny and I know you are too. We need to get married so we can fuck ourselves silly. "

It would have been much better had JFK heard of foreplay.

Listen to these two phone calls by JFK - Candid - He's pissed - Interesting to hear him unguarded and cursing so readily

And she is still a style icon.

Bump