Hollywood’s Gay Double Standard: Why So Many Actresses Can Come Out, But Young Actors Stay in the Closet

Kirke’s star has been steadily on the rise since she starred opposite Greta Gerwig in 2015’s “Mistress America,” but even she acknowledges that actors have very little power. “I am still lucky to get a job. It’s not entirely easy,” Kirke said. “So I think that’s why people might obscure certain parts of who they are, because it’s a privilege to be able to be recognized for what you do. Even if what you do is within a system that is extremely messed up, it can be tricky to be navigate if you overthrow the system or participate in it.”

Others try to rationalize that process. “As a producer, as someone who’s creating a role for TV, they’re going to want to have their lead actor, or actress believably play the role,” said the talent manager, who is openly gay. “Personally, I don’t blame them for that.”

With “Westworld” gearing up as HBO’s new “Game of Thrones,” Wood has weathered potential career hits, though she has had more prominent relationships with men than with women. “Nothing happened that people told me was going to happen,” she said.

There is a recent plethora of buzzy young actresses proudly stating their queerness, whether it be with much fanfare (Ellen Page’s HRC speech), or a slow trickle of glaring hints leading up to a giant middle finger to the president on “Saturday Night Live” (Stewart). Sasha Lane, Kate McKinnon, and Samira Wiley are just a few whose queerness has not hindered, and quite possibly has helped, their careers.

“I think it pertains mainly to young male, romantic leads,” said the manager. “Those are the roles that are written. That’s what’s out there. If the public is not going to buy you in those roles, if producers are not going to choose you in those roles, if you’re not being bought in those roles, what’s out there? That’s one of the hurdles that hasn’t been addressed yet.”

In that case, the solution may be to write fewer heterosexual romances altogether — which might not be a bad thing for actresses, straight or gay, as Hollywood attempts to reckon with its history of sexualizing women. It might lead to better movies, too.

The problem lies more heavily with young men; there are plenty of out gay character actors and comedians. Zachary Quinto, Alan Cumming, and Neil Patrick Harris have made no secret of being gay, but they either waited until later in life to come out, or did not reach the height of their fame until later in life.

“It hasn’t hurt some older character actors. You have actors for whom it’s like an open secret that they’re gay, but it hasn’t hurt their careers,” the manager said. “If you’re not established in the industry, which tends to be most young people, you [want to] make sure you’re not pigeonholed into certain roles, and into certain stereotypes. As you get older, as you get more established … roles open up. There are more parts [than just] the young hunk who’s the male romantic lead.”

Greg Berlanti, who directed “Love, Simon” and is pretty much single-handedly responsible for the proliferation of gay supporting characters on television, has been around long enough to be more optimistic. “When I would cast people in gay roles, there were so many conversations about it 10, 15 years ago. You’d have to talk to their agent, and you’d have to talk to them … There was a feeling that it would label an actor,” he said. “Those are not the kinds of conversations people are having now.”

Wood, who is as outspoken in real life as renegade “Westworld” cyborg Dolores, regrets nothing about coming out: “You might be leaving one community behind,” she said, “but you’re getting embraced by another.”

Because lesbos are still a fetish for guys, gay guys not so much for fraus/frauleines

[quote]Cho told IndieWire that he knows of one actor who “is not particularly in the closet, if you get my drift,” but is not out in the press.

Whoever could this be?

R2 is clueless and knows nothing about women. Why do you think women watch so much gay porn if gay sex doesn't arouse them?

The only one who have a problem with gay men on screen are other men.

Yes there are SOME women who are really into that r4, don't take that culture as all women, or even most.

And it's only getting worse

R5 So even if they're not the majority (no one did a study as much as I know), producers are mostly men, so they're the one to call out. Not the "Frauen".

That's not true r6. There are more out actors than ever before.

@R4 I've never heard of women watching gay porn (I don't doubt it happens); I'd imagine it's a tiny percentage

R9 You would be surprised. Yesterday on Pornhub I saw something like a tag for #femalefavorite gay porn.

R9 there is a percentage of women who like to watch gay porn because it doesn't feel as awkward as straight porn where they tend to put themselves in the position of the woman. Also the women in fandom who enjoy reading and writing gay slash stories. A small percentage, but then I'd say the same for the amount of guys who fetishise lesbians. It is irritating there is such a double standard about women coming out vs men.

@R11 I have to disagree; all of my straight friends watch lesbian porn; I'm sure most straight guys do. I'd guess 90% of men, 5% of women, watch opposite gender homosexual porn. Which affirms (to a degree) the position of @R2.

R12 All you do is guessing to justify your argument. Now go search the real numbers and we'll start talking.

Because two vaginas make me wet.

The same woman who sits there watching (and getting turned on by?) gay porn would run screaming if it was her own actual husband/bf.

If an openly gay actor was headlining an action movie, dudebro comedy, or superhero film would straight men still flock to see the movie? Hollywood obviously thinks the answer is no.

R15 Yeah, people tend to scream when their partner cheat on them.

This level of misogyny....

It's about boundaries. Straight men don't take lesbianism seriously, they can still project their fantasies onto a lesbian actress because they view it as titillating and probably think the woman in question is only one amazing cock away from being turned straight. See the recent uptick in queer politics and male lesbians.

Men are allowed to have sexual boundaries so if an actor says he is gay then he is believed but unfortunately for those actors it is also believed they have no currency in leading men type roles. I actually think the industry is wrong about this as far as women movie viewers go but I guess the jury is out on whether straight men will take to gay actors in certain film roles.

TLDR version - Straight men is why this situation is as it is.

R13 obviously I'm guessing, I literally said I was; as no Ines referencing academic articles that's all any of us are doing. Now go sit on a lemon, it might sweeten you up you bitter old thing

r17, get over yourself. I was speaking in broad terms.

R20 Nah, it's typically DL reasoning.

Gay men have to stay in the closet because of the all powerful women hate them and not because straight men are homophobic as fuck.

Both factors are at play, it is silly to pretend that women aren't at play. Leading men need the female fanbases, they need to be objects of love and lust for women.

As Long as male homosexuality is associated with effeninancy or unmanliness, men will always suffer great stigma and discrimination for identifying as gay, even bi. Big leading men are expected to be masculine, and now that action movies and superhero movies rule the box office, perceived masculinity is more important than ever.

R23 so the real issue are those ridiculous standards of masculinity and what 'a man is'.

R24, yes, let’s not deny the reality of the world in which we live just because it’s ugly or painful.

We need more masculine gay tops in show business, that’s the problem. Seems like everybody who “comes out” is an Adam Rippon type. Where the fuck are the tops? Are we that scarce?

Tops? What does sexual role have to do with acting?

Hollywood is run by straight, white men who pander to straight (white) men.

Straight men like girl on girl action, but guy on guy action makes them nervous and uncomfortable (unless it's played for laughs), because they consider it gross, demeaning and humiliating for men to do something like that for fun and pleasure.

Most straight men consider women inferior (lesbians? Eh, just didn't met the right guy with the perfect dick yet) . Most straight men consider gay men inferior which means most straight men wouldn't worship, respect, or admire an openly gay man in terms of leading men movie or TV show material. And they most certainly wouldn't want to be like a fictional character played by an openly gay men or relate to anyone who is gay.

At least that's what Hollywood believes and they call the shots and make the rules which have to be followed in order to climb up the career ladder.

Being a top is more than a mere sexual role. It’s an attitude, a lifestyle.

Sorry, at r28 I meant ...

And they most certainly wouldn't want to be like a fictional character played by an openly gay MAN or relate to anyone who is gay.

Man not men.

Yeah, there is still the reality that most men don’t identify with openly gay men, and that will chill the actors’ ability to relate to gay actors. But actors are supposed to transcend their own biography and portray characters that have nothing to do with their lives.

That's not an acting but a PR problem.

Gay can play straight but can't PR straight once they're out.

And PR is supposed to lure people to buy the image and buy what the celebrity, with his fake image, is selling.

Uh, “Yeah, there is still the reality that most men don’t identify with openly gay men, and that will chill the male audience’s ability to relate to gay actors.”

So much of the media portrayal of gay men is as “others,” distinct from other men, essentially a third sex or quasi-women. As such, it’s no wonder men often have trouble identifying with gay men or feel they can’t relate.

The problem is that, as a society, we separate people into too many categories and labels and, on top of that, have a hierarchy (class) system.

Just look at Datalounge where people have hissy fits over their own suffering topping someone / everybody else's suffering. People refuse to find common ground in misery in the sense that "It's not a nice feeling to be rejected". Instead it's all about "you, your kind, being rejected does not come even close to the gravity of ME, MY kind, being rejected!".

It's the same with relating to one another. Apparently only rich / poor people can relate to rich / poor people, only white / black people can relate to white / black people, (straight, gay, bi) men / (straight, gay bi) women can only relate to (straight, gay, bi) men / (straight, gay bi) women.

We have become too superficial where we only see labels and can't connect (relate to each other) on a deeper, emotional level.

There aren’t actually that many gay actors in Hollywood. Datalounge engages in a lot of wishful thinking.

Statistically speaking there have to be a lot more than the ones who are openly gay right now, R37. Especially when you shrink the pool to arts and entertainment.

People keep discounting the role of female fans here. It’s definitely not just straight men behind this. Women want the illusion that they could get with their fave actor, even if in their heart of hearts they know that won’t happen even if the actor was straight. This is especially true of older women, but even the younger tumblr fan girls prefer an actor come out as queer or something like that so they can have their cake and eat it too.

To me, one of the biggest issues is how we worship actors and expect insights into them 24/7. They can’t just act and call it a day, they have to construct an entire persona to please fans.

R38, “gays” are statistically a very very small portion of the population. Something like .00000000001%.

There are probably no closeted gays in Hollywood. Even some of the “gays” who are “out” are just saying that for attention, or they just haven’t met the right girl yet.

It doesn't matter how progressive the world gets with homosexuality, the majority of the world is straight and a leading man, unless it's action, will be wooing a female lead. It's difficult to sell an out actor in a romance that is not comedic as in Barney from How I met your mother.

Even though we are watching many gay men in romantic hetero leads without knowing it, once you know, you can't unknow. It's not that people are in the theatre not cool with the actor but your head might go, he should have a nice man and not that woman his character is pursuing.

So I can understand why someone who is a leading man would stay in the closet in his prime, but character actors, action and comedy stars should all come out.

r39, I don't think its that we want to get with them in our fantasy, it's just buying the character as straight. once you know the actor is gay chasing women. Yes a good actor can do it, maybe. But some actors, it's already hard enough not to see the actor, and get lost in the character.

It's excepted with female actresses, because straight men have in their heads anyway, all she needs is a man or I'd like to be the third wheel in that. And it's makes them hot the idea of it because it's imagined two hot female actresses, not some bitches from Park Slope with short haircuts.

A lot of straight men are afraid gay men will harass or rape them. They're basically afraid gay men will treat them like some straight men treat women. I don't think these hyper masculin tops are going to appeal to them.

Definitely what R2 said. What R4 said only applies to a relatively small number of women.

Why would women pay to watch a media fantasy world where a higher-than-real-world-average of males aren't attracted to females?

[Quote] To me, one of the biggest issues is how we worship actors and expect insights into them 24/7. They can’t just act and call it a day, they have to construct an entire persona to please fans.

So true.

The Hipster Liberals are only interested with Gay rights and homophobia when they can use it as a means of attacking people on the right, like a baker who refuses to make wedding cake for a gay couple, but when a whole industry totally discriminates against gay men and denies them employment they are totally OK with it and ignore the issue.

R21. I’ve women just as homophobic as men. Many times.

R23. Correct. When someone pays the money to see a big studio film they expect the male lead to be a regular or extordinary guy. We all know most guys aren’t Brad Pitt. That’s what movies about. Glamour, fantasy and escape as Hitchcock said.

I’m short, Guys like Taylor Lautner are nice to look at but will never be the lead in a big budget movie because he doesn’t check all the boxes. Guys like Chris Pratt are handsome and masculine. That’s what matters. Masculinity.

In short* ^

Movies & TV reflect what $traight people want to see because they are the largest audience.

As someone said above, gays are still seen as effeminate , caricatured as Adam Rippon , Frankie Grande. No straight men wants to see that freak show, i would like to see more masculine gay guys as lead man someday.

TV is not as bad, the highest paid TV actor is openly gay.

TV is a much better landscape for gay characters and gay actors. Movies lag far behind.

I would love more masculine gay actors. Therefore it can never be. Because I never get what I want ☹️

I look at the landscape of openly gay actors

Zach Quinto, Matt Bomer, Luke Evans, NPH, Russell Tovey, Jonathan Groff, BD Wong, Wentworth Miller, Luke Macfarlane, Jussie Smollet.

None of those guys are especially effeminate.

For some reason people are naturally wired to be repulsed by male anal sex. And because people are obsessed with sex thats all many can think about when they think of male homosexuality.

Greg Berlanti, who directed “Love, Simon” and is pretty much single-handedly responsible for the proliferation of gay supporting characters on television, has been around long enough to be more optimistic. “When I would cast people in gay roles, there were so many conversations about it 10, 15 years ago. You’d have to talk to their agent, and you’d have to talk to them … There was a feeling that it would label an actor,” he said. “Those are not the kinds of conversations people are having now.”

This to me is the annoying smoke and mirrors liberalism in Hollywood. OK so you get a straight actor yo play gay on TV while he will go on to inform everyone how heterosexual he is in real life. It's irrelevant. Homophobia in Hollywood is not about straight guys playing gay on TV it about employing openly gay actors. It's about giving out gay actors employment.

Greg Berlanti is the person responsible for seeing gays on television according you...? What am I, chopped liver?

I agree with r56 most straight people equate gay males with the act of Male/Male anal sex. so to them, there's a BIG ick factor that they just can't get over.

I think the masculinity factor is much bigger Than the buttsex factor. In sports, many still doubt if gay men are manly enough to be athletically aggressive and tough, and people still connote weak and passive with being gay. In this age of action heroes, biceps, and superheroes, gay stereotypes about masculinity are huge barriers.

It doesn't make a lick of sense.

R55 but they engage in butt sex. The voice of the almighty heterosexual. The average het woman is thinking "too bad he is gay, I used to have a crush on him". At least brad Pitt likes women and his love or sex scene was so hot.

r39 are you a woman? If not then how the fuck do you know? I don't know what women think or what they like and most of the world doesn't either because their likes and dislikes are an after thought unless it concerns the manufacture of products corporations want them to by. As far as media goes women are not catered to, porn only started tailoring movies to women in the last ten years. So men still hold the over all power when it comes to entertainment.

r51 ever seen Vin Diesel or Dwayne Johnson in a film?

Yes r63 I am a women. I’ve also participated in online fandoms since the heyday of Harry Potter as a teenager. What I said was based on observation. Women spend plenty of $ at movies and invest heavily in actor fandoms. They may be dismissed on an individual level, but Hollywood still seeks to collectively please female fans overall.

Okay, I stand corrected.

[quote]. Women spend plenty of $ at movies and invest heavily in actor fandoms.

Yep. The fan culture in Hollywood is dominated by women. Men tend not to get that involved. It is women that give someone a "following".

R55 Jonathan Groff is effeminate

[quote]Jonathan Groff is effeminate

He seems straight to me.

OMG you guys, Jonathan Groff’s scenes with Hannah Gross on Mind Hunter are sooooo hot. I just binge watched it for the 4th time. Their chemistry is off the charts!! I think he’s totally boning her IRL, too.

I confess I did not read the entirety of this article because of it's ridiculous premise. There are MANY more out gay actors than actresses. Ellen Page and Jodie Foster are the only ones I can think of, and how much they work in mainstream movies anymore is debatable.

There may be a few out female bisexuals like Kristen Stewart and Evan Rachel Wood, but they still appeal to men, so they survive.

R71 I wouldn't say Stewart is really a mainstream actress at this point. She has a pr person/ team, so she gets lots of press. However she mostly does indies. Her films haven't been commercially successful. While she'll often manage to generate a little bit of Oscar buzz early in the season, she never gets nominated. She's largely coasting on her Twighlight fame. She also doesn't acknowledge that she's a lesbian. She says she's fluid or doesn't like labels. Even Rachel Wood says she's bi. Bisexual women are seen as desirable to straight men. It satisfies their girl on girl fetish, but they're attracted to men. Coming out as a bi wins isn't the same as coming out as a lesbian.

[quote]R28 Hollywood is run by straight, white men who pander to straight (white) men.

THIS

[quote]There may be a few out female bisexuals

A few? There are tons of celebrity women who identify as bisexual!

I can think of more out gay men, R74, but again, bisexual women still apppeal to the opposite sex. Bisexual men don't get the same pass because of the widespread belief that male bisexuals are really just homosexuals.

Jodie Foster is over 40. So are the movies she made at Disney.

I really enjoyed Kristen in "Personal Shopper". Maybe because she's a dyke or bi or whatever, she can do projects (Clouds of Sils Maria; Certain Women; Camp X-Ray...) where she doesn't have to dry-hump in bed with the stud of the moment.

I find her refreshing.

Gay actors not coming out isn’t due to homophoba in the the US. It’s homophobia in China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, etc. where the movies will be banned if there are avowed male homosexuals in them. Hollywood is a business after all...

So gay male actors are still held hostage to the whims of dictatorships in order to work?

Those countries do ban gay content but don’t care about gay actors much r78. Dracula Untold, staring the out Luke Evans, played in all three countries. This is down to fandom bs, it can’t really be blamed on outsiders.

R80 But it can also affect promotion in said countries. They can arrest gay actors at any time. Plus, the media in these countries can turn people away from seeing movies by these actors, which could affect the box office. Didn’t Trinidad and Tobago try to ban Elton John from going there for being gay? Not a large market, I know, but still.

r55, I'm thinking about your list and who is actually playing a romantic lead there, I have to confess I had to google some of the names.

I watched Russell Tovey but didn't realize who he was. I heard of Luke Evans and that he was gay from DL but looked him up and was suprised as he is the one who can probably not be hurt by this. I watched him in some movies and never thought he was gay and plan to see the Alienist and will see, it maybe a british thing that he can push him passed it.

I watched Wentworth Millier in Prison Break after knowing he was gay but his romance with the one actress wasn't really ON SCREEN after the first season.

Zach Quinto I haven't seen in a romantic lead but that's because he is not good looking. Jonathan Groff I didn't think or know he was gay in Glee but he was next to others who flamed so I would have to wait to see something else he is in. t by

But the key is buying them in a romantic lead not be gross out thinking of anal sex. That is not it.

None of these guys are actually “gay.” Keep dreaming, boys.

Kate McKinnon is trending huge as a future A list star

R77 You may find her refreshing, but she hasn't had much mainstream success outside of Twilight. My point was that coming out as fluid or whatever isn't always easier for women. The basic idea behind the article is that there's a double standard lesbian actresses and gay actors. It's commonly believed that lesbians have it a lot easier. I'm not sure that's true. Stewart isn't really a good example of an out actress who's doing better than the out actors.

[quote]At least brad Pitt likes women and his love or sex scene was so hot.

I'm continually amazed that despite the fact Pitt was pretty convincingly outed as Bi at the minimum around the time his most recent divorce was announced people still consider him completely straight. The man swallowed considerable amounts of spunk on his way to the top (and given his rather unremarkable endowment taken it up the ass as well) and he's never really denied the rumors.

Today, it’s not buttsex Per se that freaks younger people out about gay men, it’s the notion that in male-male sex, one man is being penetrated that really makes folks lose their minds. Many antigay slurs and put downs fixate on the male who is sexually passive to another male, which is viewed as the real crime or indignity of gay sex.

R86 When was Pitt outed as bi? DL rummors don't count.

This imaginary Brad Pitt outing never happened.

Brad Pitt is all man!

R55 Out of your list, only Luke Evans passes as straight all of the time. Quinto, for the most part could pull it off but he just isn't attractive enough to be a good leading romantic interest. But not Bomer, NPH, Tovey, Groff, etc.

I would add though Lee Pace and Richard Armitage to your list of convincing straight actors. I think it is the way they carry themselves as well as how well they can immerse themselves into the roles they take.

R68 Yes, he is. I am never convinced when he plays it straight.

R60 Agree. Anal sex is less of a factor than the perception of masculinity. For that last 100 years, Hollywood has shaped that perception to the point of it the only acceptable standard. However male dominated societies (and masculinity) through out history informed what Hollywood eventually projected.

JUssie Smollett can portray mainstream masculine dudes

I'm not really sure how much it's a real issue with the public or a perceived issue by the execs in the industry. I remember Kathy Griffen saying that someone told her that women won't headline sitcoms because America didn't want that. He had no problem with a women lead but America wasn't ready. This was in the 90s after I Love Lucy, That Girl, One Day at A Time, Alice, Rossane 1.0. I think Hollywood execs (and people in general) perceive things to be true without much evidence. The Sony leak had someone saying black headlined movies wouldn't do well because the rest of the world was bigoted. Black Panther did okay at the box office in spite of our bigoted world.

IT is a devastating message to young bi and gay men that they cannot be heroic, manly, or popular if they are open about their orientation. It reinforces low self-esteem and closetednwss.

The article seems to really blur the lines between queer, gay and bisexual. It's like the writer either doesn't know the difference or doesn't care so they just smash it all together into one blur of LGBT-ness. Where it is distinctly important for the point they are trying to make. A bisexual woman is the least repressed creature exactly because men never doubt her attraction to them. A bisexual guy is treated exactly like a gay one because people are penis-centric, so having sex with a man just once makes you gay. The only difference is someone like Pitt (no idea if he's really bi but suppose he is), someone who had several high profile hetero relationships.

Also, gay culture. A typical queer woman might be a bit masculine, but it's easy to present as "tough girl image". A typical gay is... not so much.

R91 And yet we'll see what happens to Lee Pace's new roles now that he is out as vaguely bisexual.

Something to consider: his character in a recent TV show Halt and Catch Fire was officially bisexual. In the first season he was very sexualized, almost right to the "depraved bisexual" trope. Hell the first episode opened with him and the main female character banging like rabbits in a back room of some dirty bar. But once his sexuality got revealed, it went way down. The sex scenes, the shirtness walks. It seems the sexuality of the character turned off the audience even though the actor himself was considered straight back then.

shirtless*

[quote]And it's only getting worse

The situation with bearding and other PR relationships has gotten so ridiculous that I now doubt most highly publicized "romances" are real. One or both are gay, or one or both are promoting something (or just seeking attention).

I really suspect most young, straight celebs who are hooking up try to avoid publicity about who they're fucking to maintain a bit of privacy.

LMAO R100

[quote] Gay actors not coming out isn’t due to homophoba in the the US. It’s homophobia in China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, etc. where the movies will be banned if there are avowed male homosexuals in them. Hollywood is a business after all...

I have yet to see a report that a movie was banned for the simple reason an openly gay man was in it (not doing any gay stuff). Hollywood studios sell their movies to foreign distributors. Though of course they'll keep in mind whether a movie will be a "tough sell" to find a foreign buyer (aka. distribution) because of local prejudice. Or if they make more money to pander to one market and ignoring other markets in the process.

Hollywood basically creates influencers to influence the masses to buy their products. They may say they care for liberal progress but what they really care is to make huge profits. They don't give a shit if they turn people into certified nutcases with their petty mind games (you are only of use to me if you make me money! Do whatever it takes to make me money or I'll treat you like yesterday's trash! You want to come out? Well, you know what happens when you don't deliver the profits I expect from you).

The film industry is primarily about international blockbusters now. You think the US/Canada and Western Europe is woefully homophobic? Consider the rest of the world. Therefore, the boys playing Iron Man, Superman, etc will never ever come out.

R101 believes laps up every "romance" on Extra, ET, TMZ, Inside Edition, etc.

Christy Lemire, Alonso Duralde and Matt Atchity discuss why many actresses can come out, but young actors choose to stay in the closet.

Familiar arguments about buttsex and an interesting point about "extra acting". Luke Evans gets a shoutout and Matt Damon gets dragged. The internet forgets nothing!

I would like to see a gay guys like Liam Hemsworth, not femme or talk like woman.

Well yeah

Well most actress come out as bi though they're not really bi

I've noticed this as well. Many actresses have come out lately, yet very few male gay actors are coming out. I think it's because lesbians (or bi women) are more accepted than gay men. Also.. male actors have all those fangirls dreaming about getting with them. That whole dream will be shattered if the actors come out. I don't think actresses have that same issue.

What R2 said. Thread closed.

R4 A very small minority of women watch gay porn and write gay fanfics. Most women are still not cool with gay men. For some reason they have no issue with lesbians, but they seem to be more homophobic towards gay men. I don't know why.

r112, women love gays. Hollywood doesn't give a shit, because it is run by men who think women making out with each other is hot and guys making out with each other is icky.

[Quote]As Long as male homosexuality is associated with effeninancy or unmanliness, men will always suffer great stigma and discrimination for identifying as gay, even bi. Big leading men are expected to be masculine, and now that action movies and superhero movies rule the box office, perceived masculinity is more important than ever.

THIS.

To say all women love gays is generalization. Some do some don't.

[Quote]The basic idea behind the article is that there's a double standard lesbian actresses and gay actors. It's commonly believed that lesbians have it a lot easier. I'm not sure that's true.

Of course it's true. You're seriously delusional if you don't think it is. Straight men think lesbians are hot, while gay men are gross.

[quote] As Long as male homosexuality is associated with effeninancy or unmanliness, men will always suffer great stigma and discrimination for identifying as gay, even bi. Big leading men are expected to be masculine, and now that action movies and superhero movies rule the box office, perceived masculinity is more important than ever.

No wonder some guys like Keiynan Lonsdale (The Flash, Legends of Tomorrow) and Lee Pace come out as part of the Queer Community. Much less (PR) baggage than gay.

R113 is 100% correct.

I don't know if this is new news, but Gerard Butler is bisexual too ( he even stated it in a magazine) and I was shooting to know that because I honesty thought he was one of the few straights in HW.

* shocked

R105 Wrong.

They still have that straight women kissing women thing, which is so 1996. I just saw it a trailer for a STARZ show and the heroine was having relationships with only men but kissing women which is so exploitive, annoying and homophobic. Why can’t you make her a lesbian?

[quote]I don't know if this is new news, but Gerard Butler is bisexual too ( he even stated it in a magazine)

That text from that "interview" circulated for a while but it was fake, Movieline (the supposed source of the interview) confirmed it was fake.

The source of it was message board, though not the DL this time!

R72 I always though Zachary Quinto was good looking or at least "cute"

He's definitely not ugly

Men love and ENCOURAGE female homo or bisexuality, it's their ultimate turn on.

Ironically these SAME men birch that gay men try to shove their sexuality down people's throats while their hypocritical asses actually do SHOVE female homo or bisexuality down people's throats.

Ironic isn't it?

Most women just DO NOT like any type of male on male sexuality. A very small percentage perhaps but most can't stand it and are even, like straight guys, openly repulsed by it.

I knew quite a few straight women who claim to be pro gay tell me that they're more comfortable seeing two girls together than two guys, that's how grossed out most are by it

You made your point R125. Are you some homophobe? Good lord man. You drove that point home and through it. You should be FF’d and blocked.

Actually, I am going to FF and block you. That post reads way to agendaized. I think that’s your attitude towards gay men.

R126 huh dude? I'm bisexual myself and unlike most no guys, open about it. This is my personal experience from being around mostly straight people my whole life.

Don't even get me started on how straight women loose interest in in men once they find out their bisexual.

To answer OP's question: Because two women together is a classic (and cliché) straight male fantasy. Therefore it's more acceptable.

The actors are guilty of creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. If Cruise, Cooper, Clooney, Franco, Leo, Timothee etc. came out as gay or bi, no one would care

You are delusional if you think no one would care about DiCaprio, Cooper or Clooney coming out as gay.

I wish that were true, but it is not.

As for Ivory’s fantasy that the men should have been nude, that would only happen if the actors agreed. Most don’t because the internet photos haunt you forever, and if you look small it is career suicide

I certainly wouldn’t care and most people already know!

r113, r115.

Most women unless religious do not have a problem with a man being gay, with homosexuality, and many do love their gays, but we don't watch male on male porn (small niche do) and it's not a turn on. The idea is not repulsive to me or many that I know but there is a knowledge that there is no room in there for you, so why would you be interested in seeing that. Whereas straight men are turned on by girl on girl because they think they are going to get in there.

Having said that, I'll enjoy a story of men in love or characters having a gay lifestye in a movie or series but not every thing I watch. I'm bi myself and I don't go near a bi-guy, that is another thread, but mainstream is hetero, they want to see romance in movies between people like them, a man and a woman. And if the majority of stories are written that way, they want to believe a guy is straight in that role. Knowing too much about someone's personal life can also ruining actors presentation on screen. You just continue to see the actor as the role and not the character.

I think some can be out but their sexuality can't be that huge a part of their stardom. Say if Ellen D, starred in a film as a woman about to be married to a man, no one would buy it at all. Before she was out she was portrayed as kinda an awkward girl having trouble dating, but out No freakin way. However, Portia may be able to get away with playing a hetero in a role because not everyone actually knows what she looks like in middle america, they may know Ellen has a wife but not connect the two, and also because she is feminine and the male thought might be - she must be into dick also,

R130 Franco, Leo and Timothee are straight.

r130, I'm an avid datalounger and I don't believe all those you named aren't straight.

Sure, Jan. Just like Sandra Bullock is straight

[quote]I'll enjoy a story of men in love or characters having a gay lifestyle

This thread is really bringing out the homophobes. Blocked. Thread too.

Franco is bisexual

Leo is off and on with Lukas

Timothee is with Ansel

I still can't believe someone thinks Zachary Quinto isn't attractive.

He's downright gorgeous

[quote]Timothee is with Ansel

I wasn't aware there was anyone who actually believed this, but okay dear.

R139

r138, how is someone a homophobe who doesn't want to watch 100% gay themed stuff.

Do you enjoy always watching hetero romance? Do you watch straight porn or lesbian porn?

r141, is that you zach?

LOL he is no prize.

okay zach/miles/r141

I googled and this is by far the best picture I could find and he does look nice here. It's the right lighting and angle but off by a mm, and you get ugly profile and hideous eyebrows.

Who out there believes Timothee is straight? Wake up and smell The cocoa butter

Isn't that strange R132? Small breasted women/celebrities are not tarnished or ashamed of their A cup breasts, but men, the weaker sex, everything always goes back to the size of their member. Sad.

R135, thank you for a hearty laugh this Sunday morn.

Bless you.

LOL!

R145 I'm not Zach or Miles, whoever that is, but I thought that Zachary was generally considered at least cute by the general population

Who are those "many actresses" who are coming out? The most recent name I can recall is Kristen Stewart as fluid or whatever.

I also agree with R94.

Because audiences are mainly female. Frauen no like gay actors.

R123 thanks for letting me know! I didn't know that and when I read it all my certainties crumbled lol I could have bet all you want that he's straight.

“ As Long as male homosexuality is associated with effeninancy or unmanliness, men will always suffer great stigma and discrimination for identifying as gay, even bi. Big leading men are expected to be masculine, and now that action movies and superhero movies rule the box office, perceived masculinity is more important than ever.“

This is the very best, most accurate answer.

Maybe because men (straight or gay) are often cowards...

R154 = very basic frau, single, overweight, thinks she's 'gorgeous', has a cat

Men are being taken too seriously and women are not taken seriously enough. Just look at the how much men make and how much women make.

But yeah, keep fucking that "women HATE the gays" chicken.

That is a stereotype (and self-hating) for gay men or anyone to think that a gay man can’t project masculinity

R157 Please state all the masculine currently out gays

(R155) Most of gay actors married straight women, they act as if they were straight, so they do all what they can to stay in the closet....

Gus Kenworthy is more masculine than Bradley Cooper. Open your eyes

Darren Young is a very masculine mainstream athlete bro

WE are talking about majority perceptions about masculinity here, not objective truth. To most, men who have attributes and interests associated with gay culture cannot be masculine. So much So that straight men who have gay tastes, interests, and mannerisms are also viewed as unmanly. Let’s not act like this is not the majority view.

Well, sounds like you are a self-hating mincing poof

I am a straight woman and I agree with 125. I don't understand why poster 126 is very defensive. I guess what was stated has a level of truth to it. I can relate because I am selfish sometimes that I wouldn't mind seeing only straight romance in movies and on tv. We heterosexuals have to own up to our own prejudice.

As a can’t be too close to gay culture or stereotypes to maintain a masculine image as an openly gay men. It helps if your closest friends are masculine straight men.

So R164 kindly FUCK OFF. YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE!!! WE ARE NOT ALLIES. Go kill babies and LEAVE THIS SITE NOW. Be GONE. RAUS!!!

To me the actors of the movie CRUISING, were all straight and that's what IMDB said...But I was very surprised when I've read on another thread that two actors of the movie were gay in real life. Not because it's chocking but because they let pretend that they are straight. I guess it's for very personal reasons.

As a celebrity, one can’t be too close to gay culture or stereotypes to maintain a masculine image as an openly gay men. It helps if your closest friends and cool squad are masculine straight men. Frank Ocean acknowledges his interest in dudes, but he lives beyond the stereotypes, is himself as a masculine guy in hip hop. As such, urban males and females love him and identify with him. He is still very much mainstream to his audience and doesn’t stick out.

DAREen Young is masculine and hot! Not only that, he is known for beating up other big dudes.

165 and 166 are nuts . I am sure you are the same person and mentally ill. Been gay is the least of your problems, you are nut and probably a psychopath. I might have to contact the feds we might have a lead to the dead bodies because I know it is buried in your backyard.

Go AWAY you tired obese fag hag, you are bothering us

(R168) = I agree with you. But I have an innocent question : why do they marry women and have children through surrogacy, most of the time ? they go very "far", no ?

I think the old school “I’m Gay” announcement is in the past for those seeking a big mainstream career. Millennials and Gen Z are announcing their orientation with nuance and less definitive Labels. They are more likely to describe themselves as fluid or capable of attraction to both sexes than as outright gay. The term “gay” is becoming less popular in self identity.

As a gay man of color, I’m just going to throw this out there. All of the internal debates and discussions that go on, internally, between black people about skin tone and hair texture are sort of meaningless because to most people outside the club it doesn’t matter if you’re the color of a brown paper bag or a chalkboard, you’re still black. You can lighten your skin, you can narrow your nose, and you can straighten your hair, but you’re still black.

Gay men can have these conversations about masculinity all they want. But when it’s all said and done, to many straight people they don’t care if you’re the queeniest queen whoever queened or butchest butch whoever butched, you’re still gay. You can try to mask your gay voice. You can move to the suburbs, get married and raise a kid just like the straightest couple, but you’re still gay.

And to quite a few people in the country, that’s still a problem. Did you not see social media when President Obama had the White House lit like a rainbow? This is why I smdh about debates masculinity versus acting femme on DL and other gay forums, because that’s the least of our problems.

There is a lot of land between the two coasts and Hollywood wants to sell them movie tickets. And as long as that is the case, young gay actors who can “pass” will continue to be encouraged to remain in the closet. It’s not alright. It’s not okay. It just is.

The problem is that people are allowed to hold on to that outdated belief that gay men are unmanly. Oh, don't piss off those guys who think gays are girly boys! We need their financial support! No matter how many sports guys come out apparently this audience demographic still believes in gay = weak.

R167 which actors were gay?

I am not

It's not just what happens on-screen. It's also the culture surrounding what is expected off-screen of famous, leading men. Maybe it's just an American thing but some fans want to know every detail about an actor's life. They want to see themselves reflected in a celebrity. If they don't, these type of fans aren't interested in what the celebrity is selling be that movies or some product.

If fans just viewed leading men as actors and entertainers rather than somebody that has to validate their private fantasies it would be much easier for actors to come out. But our commercial culture encourages actors to be salesmen and tell the customer whatever they want to hear so they can move the product.

I think European actors can be more open about their sexual orientation. Nobody really cares that much there.

Everyone knows what coming out as "part of the queer community" means 9 out of 10 times.

Also you need to remember what is required of American celebrity. The minute an actor comes out, they have to go through the circuit, then they are expected to comment on every issue that affects gay people. Some people just don't want that responsibility. Some people just want to act and don't want to be the mouthpiece of a movement.

R150 A ton of actresses have come out lately, where have you been? Do you live under a rock? Just those I can remember: the actress from Brooklyn Nine-Nine, the actress from Stranger Things, the actress from Parks & Rec, the actress who played Matilda, and the list goes on and on and on.

R174, as a black dude, I disagree. While all observably black people suffer some discrimination, collective experience and empirical studies confirm that literal skin color among black people makes a huge difference in how we are treated. Dark skinned black people are viewed as much less intelligent, more criminal, and less equal to white people than light-skinned and noes European featured blacks. This is global, and sometimes officially recognized as it was during slavery (house negroes usually were lighter), apartheid, or unofficial (black women who look like Beyoncé are viewed differently than dark women). Studies and collective experience likewise confirm the world views masculine bi/gay men differently than effeminate or stereotypical ones, even if they suffer some discrimination. There are degrees of discrimination and oppression.

R181 THIS, i think some actors feel that they will have some responsibility about everything that is related to the "gay community" .

R182 are those actresses getting a lot of romantic leads in big movies? The thesis of the article was that coming out has no impact for actresses, but is instant death for an actor's career. The out ladies aren't getting a lot of hetero lead parts either. They are mostly relegated to indie roles or quirky comedy roles. There are out gay and bi actors who get those same type of roles.

[quote]R150, A ton of actresses have come out lately, where have you been? Do you live under a rock? Just those I can remember: the actress from Brooklyn Nine-Nine, the actress from Stranger Things, the actress from Parks & Rec, the actress who played Matilda, and the list goes on and on and on.

Who?

And who?

And fucking who?

The actress who played Matilda, oh yes, that's a name that's gonna rock the entertainment world of today.

[quote]To most, men who have attributes and interests associated with gay culture cannot be masculine. So much So that straight men who have gay tastes, interests, and mannerisms are also viewed as unmanly. Let’s not act like this is not the majority view.

Because most TV and movie portrayals of gay men are either stereotyped or coded as effeminate, and a lot of them are associated with tragic, criminal or promiscuous storylines. The industry has created a feedback loop for this perception and it's become a vicious circle. Positive or complex (non-stereotype) portrayals are still few and far between, and that concerns the whole spectrum of gay men including the raging queens.

r186, Angelina Jolie could come out as full on lesbian and DL would still get snarky "Harpo, who dis woman?" comments.

r187, the problem is that gays allow themselves to be defined by stereotypes. Always going on the defense and going out of their way to point out "I am not like that!". And I am sorry, but such behavior is based on self loathing. No "I am what / who I am", but "I am not one of them!" defining and comparing oneself to others or someone else.

Looking at Hollywood for validation and proper representation is like looking for love in all the wrong places. Know who you are and know your worth. Hollywood will never be able to compete with that, but Hollywood tricks you, or tries to trick you, to believe that their media message and programming matter more.

R188 the poster at R182 didn't know the names of the actresses. They are referred to as the girl from this show and that movie. If R182 doesn't know who this woman is, why should we?

I looked up the Matilda actress. Mara Wilson. She does voice work, but not much. Her last non voice role was playing waitress on Broad City. R186 assessment of her career is dead on.

I can't find the othe 2 actresses R182 mentioned, because there isn't even a character name listed in the post.

R188 lives in an imaginary world in which "the actress from Brooklyn Nine-Nine" who R185 couldn't even name, is on the same level of fame, name recognition and public relevance as Angelina Jolie.

That guy from Teen Wolf - not Colton Haynes - came out, and the general public is none the wiser who he is and who he bangs. If the public sees him in some action movie, they won't bat an eye. But the managers, agents and casting directors already know he's out and I doubt they would cast him. He's pretty mediocre but that quality hasn't stopped any casting agent from casting a straight white dude who's a plank of wood. A lot of the current sitch is on the industry's retrograde perceptions and fear of losing $$$ when the loses come from recycling shit and greenlighting same old shit.

THe lesson of Michael Sam is being applied to all in the public eye, even the business world. Luke Evans, Tyler the Creator, Frank Ocean acknowledge same-sex relationships or desires, but they steadfastly avoid being seen foremost as gay or gay identity altogether. Gay vague offers honesty without being tied to the stereotypes.

Actually a lot of gay culture perpetuates the stereotypes. How often do gay men automatically refer to other gay men as “queens,” “her/she,” or other insinuations of non-manliness. Too much of gay culture portrays gay men as unlike other men, not as manly, masculine, normal as other guys. It’s self-portrayals that do the most damage.

[quote][R188] lives in an imaginary world in which "the actress from Brooklyn Nine-Nine" who [R185] couldn't even name, is on the same level of fame, name recognition and public relevance as Angelina Jolie.

Oh please, on DL you would get hundreds of comments where Angelina Jolie is branded a HAS BEEN!, and no longer A-List or worth being remembered, because she hasn't made a decent movie in years, etc. All to point out that her coming out doesn't matter (anymore).

You can get that from sports celebs who came out after they retired or long after they were popular (Richard Chamberlain comes to mind).

There are always people willing to provide excuses to dismiss someone coming out. Who? Has been! Retired! Attention whore! Unlikeable from the start! Not manly enough / too femme! WHO? I don't know her!

R194 people on DL have already branded AJ a has been and she hadn't come out. Again, the point of the article is that gay actresses come out and there careers aren't impacted and gay men's careers die. It's reasonably to ask who these out lesbians with unimpacted careers are. The fact is they tend to work on the fringes just like the out gay or bi men.

Ann Heche talked about that in a pod cast with Bret Easton Ellis. She said that the mainstream leading roles dried up after she became Ellen's girlfriend. She had a couple movies in the can already but new offers didn't come in. She got a lot of attention for being half of a lesbian power couple, but she didn't get a lot of work. Don't confuse media attention with having a strong career.

Lol R194.

Jolie's bisexuality is a fact acknowledged by her. I still don't know who that actress from Brooklyn 9-9 is. That's the equation in the eyes of the viewing public.

r195, exactly. The point is being dismissive of those who came out and will come out. They are (considered) nobodies! Which creates this premise that the VIPs are not allowed or too scared to come out.

Let's put some names to these vague discriptions (like, can you be more dismissive of them?):

[quote] the actress from Brooklyn Nine-Nine,

Stephanie Beatriz

[quote] the actress from Stranger Things,

Shannon Purser (Barb!)

R182 claimed "a ton of actresses" have come out recently while the gays are still in the closet. THREE actresses from TV shows isn't "a ton" when I remember at least five recent comings out of male actors.

The issue isn't about how many, it's about how many "lead names".

R196 Jolie kind of back tracked on her bisexuality and her kinks. She said that once she got with Brad she didn't need those things anymore. It was part of her ( very successful) I used to be a mess, but now I'm a super mom, wive, humanitarian campaign. She obviously felt that being an out kinky bi chick wasn't good for her long term career.

[qute] the actress from Parks & Rec,

Her name's Natalie Morales.

[quote] the actress who played Matilda, and the list goes on and on and on.

That's Mara Wilson.

How are these three actresses doing better than Neil Patrick Harris, Matt Bomer or Sean Hayes?

[quote]There are degrees of discrimination and oppression.

That's like saying there are degrees of being pregnant. Discrimination and oppression is still discrimination and oppression. House slaves may not have had to work in the fields, but they were still slaves. The masculine gay men still couldn't get married until a few years ago. the masculine gay men can still get fired from their jobs in a number of states. Masculine gay men can still get gay bashed.

[quote] The issue isn't about how many, it's about how many "lead names".

No, the issue is even IF Angelina Jolie would come out you wouldn't consider it worth knowing, because she has a vagina.

[quote] ... when I remember at least five recent comings out of male actors.

OK, R199, R202 and R203. Since these are the "ton of women", I can offer the same number of gentlemen.

Lee Pace

Brandon Flynn

Keiynan Lonsdale

And for R206, also Thomas Dekker and the guy from Love Simon. That makes it five as I said. I'm sure there're more.

Mention any of these guys' names to the general public, and you'll get the same blank stares as when you mention the names of the three women actresses.

^^ I meant to add Colton Haynes. The guy from Love Simon is Lonsdale.

My good and VERY hot straight buddy, who is not homophobic at all, and I , an openly bisexual man, have talked about this a few times.

He summed it up by saying, "Everybody, even women who say they're straight, loves seeing two or more girls together, but NO ONE wants to see two or more men together".

I mentioned that I and most bi or gay men love seeing two guys and he said "Well obviously except for gay or by guys".

(R176) = The actors were Richard Cox and Jay Acovone. In thread of Cruising 1980, it is mentioned that "Richard Cox who play the Columbia student, is Gay In Real Life" as is Jay Acovone.

[quote] I meant to add Colton Haynes. The guy from Love Simon is Lonsdale.

Or Joey Pollari

I don't agree that there are "so many actresses" coming out compared to men. I agree there's such a perception, which I used to share, but the numbers don't support it.

Go to Wikipedia and check the LGBT actor tags.

The Lesbian actresses tag has around 180 entries. The Bi female actresses, ~100. And the gay male actors... almost 850. Then go and click around the entries for shows currently playing on TV or streaming services. Most shows have at least one male actor who's out. Rarely do they have such a female.

The article manages to produce the opposite impression by listing "buzzy young actresses" who've recently come out (some of which I admit I'd never heard of), but there's a good number of male actors who are now coming out young, without waiting for middle aged celebrity, such as Luke Evans, Brandon Flynn, and Keiynan Lonsdale, all three of which are way more famous than this Sasha Lane girl, for example.

By the way, check also lists of recent celebrities who have come out - again, overwhelmingly male.

I absolutely believe that there is a lot of potential for further growth in the share of actors coming out - surveys show that acting is, after all, one of the occupations with the highest share of gay men, but not of lesbians. And I do agree it's harder for men to come out. We face more hostility, and in and outside Hollywood. But whatever the case, we really have nothing to envy queer women about.

There really should be an LGBT Channel giving all these LGBT entertainers some love and support casting them for its programming.

[quote] Mention any of these guys' names to the general public, and you'll get the same blank stares as when you mention the names of the three women actresses.

Translation: They are NOBODIES! Gays are NOBODIES! We need to to hold on to that status quo of being NOBODIES! You ... uh, WE don't matter!

[quote]It's difficult to sell an out actor in a romance that is not comedic as in Barney from How I met your mother.

However, NPH was not publicly out when he landed that role, and he did not come out (after first being outed) until years into HIMYM’s run. At that point, the series was so successful and Barney was such a favorite character, that it did not seem to matter to many. I wonder what the public reaction to him and his role of a skirt-chasing man-ho would have been had he been out from the start.

[quote]Even though we are watching many gay men in romantic hetero leads without knowing it, once you know, you can't unknow.

This (at least, for many to most who can not or will not separate actor from role).

[quote]Hollywood is run by straight, white men who pander to straight (white) men.

This (and to straight white adolescents and teens).

[quote]Gay actors not coming out isn’t due to homophoba in the the US. It’s homophobia in China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, etc. where the movies will be banned if there are avowed male homosexuals in them. Hollywood is a business after all...

So over this tired excuse, which is nothing more than projecting and displacing elsewhere. Hollywood has been homophobic long before the relatively recent acknowledgment (in terms of its history) of the increasing importance of non-USA box office, which in no way is the driving factor for HW’s and the USA’s homophobia. If these countries suddenly declared their love for all things gay, it would not change how HW did things – HW would simply come up with other excuses.

[quote]I think Hollywood execs (and people in general) perceive things to be true without much evidence.

This. Lots of projecting and displacing their own bullshit onto others in order to legitimize their prejudices and biases.

R209, next time tell him the bulk of gay romance and X-rated fanfiction is written by straight women, and that straight teen girls went to see Love, Simon. Should blow his mind.

Lesbians are hot. Sex between women is hot.

R216 yeah but that's a "very small" niche. If you're guy who isn't turned on by seeing two or more women together, people act like there's something wrong with you or that you're a fag yourself.

Ironic isn't it?

It is what it is. It doesn't bother me one bit that straight people are generally repulsed by two guys be8ng together because I've hooked up with TONS of hot "straight, experimenting or bi guys, all on the down low, and many run right back to their wives or girlfriends and a lot of times, their wives or girlfriends don't even know I'm bisexual, I kind of lake how male desire and homosexuality is still being swept under the table and people try to limit it.

The sex with this dudes is amazing!

[quote]Gay actors not coming out isn’t due to homophoba in the the US. It’s homophobia in China, Russia, Saudi Arabia,

The Saudi Arabia movie going public ESPECIALLY lol

Not the point, R218. Your guy thinks a straight man's preference is everybody's preference. You can further disabuse him of the idea that he knows everything. Even if the gay fetishizing fraus and teen girls may be a minority - but who knows really? - he may wanna learn of this fact of life before making sweeping pronouncements.

But if he thinks of himself as straight while fucking you, he's got a lot more issues with reality than that.

I think when they say tons of actresses are coming out, it means when an actress admits homosexual feelings or same sex encounters, they aren't frowned upon. People don't make a big deal about it. It's never portrayed as abnormal. I mean many female celebrities, some of them are A++++ list megastars have admitted that they are bisexual.

Lady Gaga

Angelina Jolie

Miley Cyrus

Demi Lovato

Megan Fox

Cate Blanchett ( not bisexual but talked about her sexual encounters with women)

Kesha

Kirsten Stewart

Miranda Kerr

Fergie

Pink

Amber Heard

Cameron Diaz

Lindsay Lohan

Christina Aguilera

Drew Barrymore

etc...

Most of them are Mega superstars with humungous fan following and are regular tabloid fixtures. So when some one like them admits that they aren't straight, it makes female same sex relationships look more mainstream and more acceptable. I mean the closest we get among men is probably an unknown entity called Nico Tortella or the lead singer of Green Day

R205 Masculine gay men get as much shit from other gay men for being masc as they do the straight population for being gay. DL is filled with threads where gay celebrities are torn apart for appearing masculine. It is almost as if being masculine automatically means you are trying too hard to maintain a straight appearance.

Which out gay celebrity is being torn apart for "appearing masculine"?

So can we agree that the actor John Cho refers to in his interview is Chris Pine?

I think some fem gay guys resent the relatively easier life masculine gay guys live. They also seem to want to Bring masc gay guys down a notch by attacking their manhood. Additionally, the masc4masc movement has frustrated fem gays by making dating even harder for them.

I figured it was Kal Penn R224

True story

I work with predominantly straight men and one woman and one of the guys was telling us about how this girl he ducked kept messaging him and wouldn't leave him alone and begged him to hook up with her gay best friend because she thought it was "hot" and she wanted her gay best friend to blow him while she watched.

EVERYONE, including the straight girls at work, was repulsed when he got to that part of the story and the UGLY straight girl bitch cunt was like, "I can understand guys wanting to see two girls, thats normal, but I've never heard of a woman who wants to see to fags blow each other, I'm glad you dumped her, she's crazy for suggesting that!"

R226 That was my first thought but he implies that the actor is a film only performer. Penn is mostly doing TV these days.

171 I am neither obese nor a faghag. Stop projecting your hideous physical appearance unto me.

R47: Indeed! I've started to notice this myself. A radical gay man I once met actually believes it's less socially acceptable to be a lesbian than to be a homosexual male!

"Cate Blanchett ( not bisexual but talked about her sexual encounters with women)"

This never happened. She said she had "relationships" with women and some people took that to mean romantic relationships, but she clarified and said that she meant friendship relationships.

"Most shows have at least one male actor who's out. Rarely do they have such a female."

There are plenty of C/D list gay actors who've come out....but the biggest names who come out are female. There is no actor out as bi or gay who is as famous as Angelina Jolie. Drew Barrymore and Cameron Diaz said they had sex with women.....could you picture Leo D. or Brad Pitt saying they've been with guys? RDJ did, but then he did a "takeback" and went back into the closet once he became an action hero.

Cameron Diaz is retired. You don't see a ton of Drew these days. Jolie said bisexuality was behind her. I don't think Cameron and Drew really came out as bi. They're just mostly straight girls who dabbled. Society in general is more accepting of the idea of the experimenting straight girl. Straight guys are labeled bi or closeted gay if they experiment. That does appear to be changing, but slowly.

Another actress says she is bisexual.

r233 Another nobody.

KRISTEN IS JUST DOING THAT WITH HER HAIR CUZ SWEETPEA LOVES IT

"They're just mostly straight girls who dabbled."

Yeah, but well known male actors won't admit to ANY same sex contact, not even dabbling.

Tom Hardy? R236

Notice he made that comment when he was working in the UK, and tried to walk it back once he became bigger in America r237.

r237, he did a "takeback" and claimed he was misquoted. Doesn't count.

Lesbianism is sexy to straight guys. Straight females are not horrified by lesbianism. Straight guys have instinct to kill gay men. Only older straight guys are less intense in their homicidal urge. Funny how naive gay men are about how horrifying gayness is to straight men. Of course trannies are more naive and end up dead because of it.

[quote]Funny how naive gay men are about how horrifying gayness is to straight men

Yougov did a study in Germany last year, and it found that the percentage of straight men with homosexual experiences is basically the same as that of straight women (9% and 11%, respectively). Asked whether they crave sex with someone of the same gender, slightly more straight men than straight women said yes (9% and 7%, respectively).

I think YOU ignore how superficial straight male homophobia is - it's something they enact in public to parade their heterosexuality. Also, most tranny porn is consumed - by a long shot - by straight men. Trans women are often killed by lovers and former lovers. What these men felt was not genuine horror at homosexuality but truly socially induced shame about their relationships.

R241, if guy has urge to have sex with man he is gay. Something wrong with study. These may be closeted gays or straights joking. It's like the idea of having sex with your own mother. It's unthinkable.

"Funny how naive gay men are about how horrifying gayness is to straight men. Of course trannies are more naive and end up dead because of it."

For all the tranny hate it is clear that gay men fetishize straight men. People in glass houses.....

"Yougov did a study in Germany last year, and it found that the percentage of straight men with homosexual experiences is basically the same as that of straight women (9% and 11%, respectively). Asked whether they crave sex with someone of the same gender, slightly more straight men than straight women said yes (9% and 7%, respectively)."

Things like sample bias come into play in studies like this. Also, America is not Germany.

Gay men have difficulty understanding how different they r from straight guys. Tremendous denial. A handsome smart thirty year old gay guy at work married 55 yr old lady. He was cool popular type.

[quote][R241], if guy has urge to have sex with man he is gay. Something wrong with study. These may be closeted gays or straights joking. It's like the idea of having sex with your own mother. It's unthinkable.

No, it isn't. You have no way to know that - you haven't entered the heads of any one straight man, let alone all of them. No offense, but you're coming across as hysteric and self-pitying, like you want to believe the gap between straight and gay men is really so wide and feel hopeless.

[quote] Things like sample bias come into play in studies like this.

Like all pollsters, Yougov applies statistical controls to ensure sample representativity. They must be good at what they do, since their prediction for the last German election was in line with that of native German companies.

[quote] Also, America is not Germany.

This is from an American study - performed in Utah, of all places:

"...2% of heterosexual women and 9% of heterosexual men reported actually having same-sex contact in the last year.... 24% of heterosexual men reported masturbating to a same-sex fantasy in the last year."

r244 =

"This is from an American study - performed in Utah, of all places"

Even in Utah, people who voluntarily participate in sex surveys about same sex contact are not the typical person

"Like all pollsters, Yougov applies statistical controls to ensure sample representativity."

Controlling for things like age, gender, etc. is not the same thing as controlling for personality type.....the type of people who take sex surveys aren't necessarily typical. Also, political surveys are not the same thing as sex surveys.

Most straight men think, on some level, that real sex cannot happen without a penis. Therefore, they see two women together as a 'warm up until a man/penis arrives to take care of BOTH women. A straight guy who finds that two women who are into each other don't need his services, becomes enraged. Unfortunately I know this from experience.

[quote] Even in Utah, people who voluntarily participate in sex surveys about same sex contact are not the typical person

This goes for both men and women, though. So explain to me why straight men had much higher rates of 1-year same-sex contacts than straight women if straight men supposedly find homosexuality so much more alien and unthinkable than women?

[quote] Controlling for things like age, gender, etc. is not the same thing as controlling for personality type.....the type of people who take sex surveys aren't necessarily typical. Also, political surveys are not the same thing as sex surveys.

This is wrong. The bias in sex research using convenience samples is due to the fact that they tend to recruit the younger and people who are more educated less, as well as those who live in big urban centers. That is what pushes results in a more liberal direction. Building a sample to look like the broader population on all variables, including religion, politcs, and location - as pollsters aiming for national representativity tend to do - reduces, or kills off, the bias typical in non-representative research. You have to understand that "personality" is not some nebulous factor that can't be controlled for - it is highly correlated with all of the variables I mentioned above.

* to recruit the younger and people who are more educated less

Mean to say, "to recruit the younger and people who are more educated AND less RELIGIOUS..."

Aren't Mormon boys more likely to be gay? That could skew results based in Utah.

THE notion of a man who willingly is penetrated by or submissive to another man (or woman) is distasteful or horrifying to most, perhaps weird or Curious at best.

I think straight men who are comfortable with who they are, don't give two shits about gay male sex. The only "straight" males who are overly concerned with what gay males are doing sexually are the ones with their own problems or doubts about their own sexuality.

I will say this, even the most progressive, liberal of parents may have some issues if their own children are gay. Even if the parents don't state those issues out loud and just mask them with support. Ultimately I think all parents just want their children to have a drama free life and I think there is still this thought that being gay comes with a lifetime of problems and threats.

Most straight people are fine with lesbian sex, they're actually conditioned to see two girls kissing and having sex through straight porn and even the Cinemax soft core porn flicks. It's very mainstreamed

Male homosexuality is not however and most straight people are personally offended by it like, "How dare you be a man not love pussy!"

I'm not just talking about straight men here I'm also talking about women who are also culpable of this double standard

Nothing is a bigger deal breaker for women than letting them know you're a bisexual man, I'm bisexual and considered masculine and good looking and women always talk to me but as soon as they find out I'm bi they completely loose interest. As some of these women are bi or have experimented themselves!!

[quote] Aren't Mormon boys more likely to be gay? That could skew results based in Utah.

If they are, then they're lying in surveys, because Utah ranks among the lowest states (#47) in Gallup's LGBT demographics survey.

R255 I dont get it, why do you have to tell them that? you likes women.

That's because most leave the state as soon as they can R256

r258 Then they're not 'queering' sex survey results in Utah, as r252 suggested.

Gallup only measures reported gay or bi identity, not dude-On-dude action. A huge percentsage of men who have sex with men do not identity as gay/bi.

r260 That has nothing to do with what r252 said -- that Mormons are more likely to be gay, not that they are more likely to experiment with "dude-on-dude action".

R255: For every woman who rejects you for being bisexual, there is a gay man very interested in you, especially if you like Skinemax!

R209 Because people are conditioned to think that every nonstraight guy is gay. Thus, a man watching two women together feels like he is welcome to join them. Same for a woman. They are assumed to be attracted to both.

But a woman watching two men together? She feels rejected on the ultimate level. No fish allowed. Good bye frau. Gaygaygay. There is a small portion of women who enjoy distancing themselves from their own sexuality, so they fetishize male gay sexuality because it feels the safest. Other women just feel uncomfortable because of that perceived rejection. Any hint of male to male attraction spells "females prohibited" to a woman in our culture, thus she rejects it herself.

R255 They think you are gay and in denial. That's the mainstream view on male bisexuality.

R264 yup I know this, despite the fact that I was thins close to hooking up with one INSANELY hot girl named Julie, who had the best most roundest REAL tits I've ever seen.

I used to fantasize and beat off all the time of me titty fucking her and shooting my load all over her face and making her taste it but because I'm bisexual and like dudes too I have to be 100% gay!

It makes no damn sense

R265 This is a gay forum

Oh, stop it, R265.

It's quite simple. Hollywood is run by men. Straight men have no problems with lesbian sex because lesbians do what they like to do to women. Just like lots of women don't have any problems with gay men having sex with each other. It's purely hypocritical. Plus you can add on to that with the fear so many straight men (who are dumb as rocks when it comes to sex) have that if they are seen as condoning men having sex with each other they'll be assumed gay themselves. It's an irrational fear, an actual phobia, many straight men have.

[quote] But a woman watching two men together? She feels rejected on the ultimate level.

Why? Men enjoy watching two women putting on a show for them, but women can't enjoy two men putting on a show for them? Oh, you believe men DON'T put on shows for wowmen because it's degrading and women go out of their way to please men no matter how degrading it might be?

Your comment shows some major bias towards women while putting men on a pedestal.

[quote]Tops? What does sexual role have to do with acting?

Not a DAMN thing. For some reason, many on this board believe that if more “Straight acting” gay people came out of the closet...ALL homophobia would end, and we’ll all live happily ever after. I mean...the reason is that they’re old as fuck and refuse to acknowledge any progress that’s been made. Also, because they’re big ole’ bottoms that hate other effeminate men.

No matter how "straight acting" a closeted guy is when he comes out of the closet, haters will still find an excuse to consider him weak and an inferior not / no longer worthy of their respect and praise. That's how they are wired.

Because most gays are queeny and needy. People can't get over with the fact that the "cool" man they watching onscreen is a huge screamer behind the scenes.

Gays are lesser men and even seen as 'weaker" than women thus require special treatment.

R269 Because it is assumed that everyone wants a cock at the end. Thus, two women must be straight women experimenting but two men must be gay. You will notice it even here on this forum. No one says bisexual women don't exist, a lot of people are sure bisexual men are all gay. Thus, two men in a sexual situation would not put on a show for a woman because they would never choose to have sex with a woman unless it is for social appearances. That's how people see it. Sex with a man is seen as better than sex with a woman. Thus, if you can and want to have sex with a man, you will not want to have sex with a woman. Thus, a bisexual woman can easily choose a man over a woman, but the only reason a bisexual man would choose a woman over a man is to fake a marriage.

"So explain to me why straight men had much higher rates of 1-year same-sex contacts than straight women if straight men supposedly find homosexuality so much more alien and unthinkable than women?"

How many of those guys would actually admit to having same sex sexual contact publicly (not in an anonymous survey)?

"This is wrong. The bias in sex research using convenience samples is due to the fact that they tend to recruit the younger and people who are more educated less, as well as those who live in big urban centers. That is what pushes results in a more liberal direction. Building a sample to look like the broader population on all variables, including religion, politcs, and location - as pollsters aiming for national representativity tend to do - reduces, or kills off, the bias typical in non-representative research."

You are wrong. Normal people don't do sex surveys, anyone voluntarily taking one isn't going to represent the average person no matter how much you try to control for demographics. That is the problem with sex surveys and why they are so often inaccurate.

Just Hollywood? I've been a professional in Corporate America for over thirty years and have watched as lesbians were coddled and promoted while gay men, who were often more talented and intelligent, were shunned, discriminated against, underpaid, and often terminated without cause.

Just HW...it's the masses....no straight woman wants to see Thor as anything but straight,no straight men want to id with a gay Superman or Batman....not even BI....they would lose a huge chunk of market. Lesbians (the hot ones) and most of all bi actresses are still fuckable for straight men (actually even more) still ok for straight women,almost edgy....for all target of consumers. So you just go with the market demand. If the masses didn't make such a big deal with Henry Cavill being a huge bottom he would get out of the closet and still work just fine and if he made the same numbers HW wouldn't have a problem.

R276 exactly. Lesbians have misplaced anger, if they're being discriminated against and sexually harassed by men in the work place it's because they're WOMEN, them being lesbians is irrelevant in fact it might even be more of a turn on to the straight guys in power.

Whereas an alpha male looses EVERYTHING is he comes out as gay or bi.

Most straight women simply DO NOT like seeing 2 men together, it makes them angry, even the ones who claim they're OK with gay people.

I thought this was common knowledge in the universe and the fact that straight guys LOVE seeing 2 or more women together, it's the greatest thing to them, until I came here

The delusions on here are always hilarious!

And don't bring up the VERY SMALL portion of women who write and enjoy gay slash fiction...

The typical middle American woman is not here for seeing two guys doing anything sexual to each other

R72 Yep I'm a bi woman, the only crap I ever got was from lesbians.

R279 Because of the rejection factor. A man thinks of two women like, they are waiting for me to join them, it's hot. A woman thinks of two men like, the only way they'll ever want me is as their fag hag. And no one wants to be a fag hag for a guy you want to fuck six ways to Sunday.

R279 not even them because gay slash fiction is a distortion and a fetishization of gay love/sex which they use to ID themselves with not as a tribute. They are actually very homophobic towards everything that's not cute and kawai enough for them to id with. They couldn't care less about gays.

No straight woman or man can accept a bi man who enjoys sex with girls or a married one who simultaneously likes being fucked in the ass nor in real life nor in movies. Maybe they are ok in theory with strangers, but as soon as they have to deal with someone close to them it's a no no.

R280 yeah but a lot of those bi guys would STILL want to fuck you six ways to Sunday.

As a bi guy myself, nothing feels better on my Dick like the feel of warm pussy

I love sex with men but to me it's an extension of male bonding and is a COMPLETE different feel then fucking a woman

And yes you can be a man and like both!

R282 people generally react like that to the idea of cheating. It's not about bisexuality.

r283 My gut instinct tells me you're so ugly only women would have you.

R283 Well, that's the social conditioning. How often are men worried their girlfriend will dump them for another woman? Yet for a woman, "he'll dump me for another man" is a prevalent worry. Partially because a lot of gays go through his period of trying to have a girlfriend. Though, personally, you'd have to be a marble statue not to notice that a man isn't really hot for you in bed. It's usually painfully obvious from the bad sex. I have heard those stories of "my boyfriend turned out to be gay" and each and every one of them featured bad sex.

Anyway, that's what people are conditioned to believe, it's difficult to overcome the notion. Also a lot of gay people do go through the "maybe I'm bi phase" (with bad sex). Women, too.

Besides, women in general suffer from low confidence when it comes to competing against men. And nothing screams top hardcore competition is when your sexual rival is a man.

R285 which is 2hy I get him on by women constantly at my job and I used to model in my late teens/early 20s?

One gay guy at my job just found out I was bisexual, he had no clue despite the fact that I talk about it from time to time, and now he's constantly harassing me at first I laughed it off but now it's getting annoying

The funny thing is this gay guy is cute and, the most important thing to me, MASCULINE, which is EXTREMELY rare basically unheard of for gay men bi men like me yes but 100% gay men who are completely masculine? Does not exist. And I could easily fuck him but I'm currently in a relationship with a woman and he is with a man

[quote]this gay guy is cute and, the most important thing to me, MASCULINE, which is EXTREMELY rare basically unheard of for gay men

MARY!

Does anyone else think r287's posts read like they were written by a Russian troll or something?

R288 what does MARY mean?

[quote] No straight woman or man can accept a bi man who enjoys sex with girls or a married one who simultaneously likes being fucked in the ass nor in real life nor in movies. Maybe they are ok in theory with strangers, but as soon as they have to deal with someone close to them it's a no no.

Wow, you know every single straight women on this planet? Good for you.

Women are sexualized more than men. In fact it's a widespread belief that men CAN'T be sexy, being sexy is synonymous with being an attractive woman

That's another reason why being a gay or bi male is still somewhat against the establishment. Yes stereotypical non sexual gay men may be more accepted than years ago but masculine gay male sexuality and desire with the feminine stereotypes of being gay still makes the overwhelming majority (straight people) uncomfortable and is swept under the rug and barely seen on TV or the movies

With lesbians or bi women it's the complete opposite. Lesbianism being shown as something that's hot, titillating, cool and hip, is always thrown in people's faces in mainstream TV and movies and without the butch lesbian manly looking stereotypes .

I meant to post WITHOUT the feminine stereotypes of gay men...

R291 no you're right, it was a continuation of the argument about actors losing fanbase because straight women and men don't like their fantasies ruined. But it's also true that the majority of people have more difficulty accepting someone close to them as BI or gay than when it comes to complete strangers,especially if they find out during a relationship. It was more a consideration about the double standard ppl apply to this issue when it come to their own and complete strangers.

R292 yes but they are directed by men...so it's more about male gaze than genuine acceptance. As you said the butch lesbian is not welcomed. I think in different ways both bi men and women suffer at the hands of straight people,with bi men having the worst outcome.

Stewart came out but she's ignored every year at awards season and please don't tell me she's worse actress than closet case and Oscar winner actress Emma Stone

“No openly gay man has ever won the Oscar; I wonder if that is prejudice or chance,” McKellen told The Guardian.

“How clever, how clever,” McKellen then said of Tom Hanks, Philip Seymour Hoffman and Sean Penn winning best actor Oscars for playing gay men. “What about giving me one for playing a straight man?” he asked.

I agree w Sir Ian

Ian McKellen Says Gay Actors Are ‘Disregarded’ by Hollywood

Gay for Pay — and Oscar Love

There is absolutely no chance the closeted a-listers (Dicaprio, Cruise, Cooper, Clooney, etc.) would come out. Can you imagine how it would affect the whole industry? Their beards, fake wifes, children, publicists who make out crap, etc. They would be immediately blacklisted if they did that.

They would have to come out as bi, not gay, and pretend like all those relationships were totally for real.

Because you are right, the fakeness of the entire enterprise would be exposed otherwise.

Because if you find out someone's sexual orientation is not what they said and it happens during a relationship, they are usually cheating on you.

It is not just about straight fantasies, it is the masses think gays are gross. When my male colleagues found out Ian McKellen is gay they grossed out, since then whenever they see or hear about him they're like "that homo?"

That's because the image of a gay man in the eyes of the masses is that cheesy fake queeny one. My relatives are pretty homophobic, or so I thought, and some time ago they tell me calmly that their new neighbours are two gays. I ask if there is any trouble and they say nope, you know, we'd never guess they were gay if they didn't hold hands once when walking in the park, they are just regular decent dudes, not looking like strippers and talking like women. They have a nice neighbourly relationship now.

I blame the gay parades.

Alk Openly Gay men potentially can be victims of discrimination and physical violence. However, more feminine gay men are disproportionately targeted, and attacks against fem men and transgender persons generally are much more brutal or lethal. Masculine men are seen as more likely to be able to defend themselves, or just less offensive to hate crime perpetrators. Bigots are selective in choosing their victimes.

I asked a female coworker if she likes seeing two men together and she said, "I'm not homophobic, I'm for gay rights, but to me that's disgusting, I'd rather watch 2 women together and I'm 100% straight ".

She then said that she never heard of women watching gay male porn and that she didn't know that such a thing "existed" and that if men want to do that in private more power to them but "I don't want to be anywhere near that" and than she made a "throw up/repulsed" face

That's how most women think

How old is your coworker R307? Pretty damn old if she didn't even know that gay porn existed. (Or more likely a self-righteous liar.)

All you need to do is pay a quick trip to Tumblr to find young Millennial and Gen Z women's gay fantasies as far as the eye can see. Now, you may disparage the content and the shoddy execution (so do I), but the bottom line is: it's proof of women fantasizing about male/male sex.

Lesbians are every bit as closeted in Hollywood as gays. Lavender marriages = Hollywood

R308 she just turned 20

She knew gay porn existed but she didn't know that women watching gay male porn was a thing, she thought that that didn't exist

Because lesbians do not sell themselves as sex junkies, unlike most gays. Their sexual orientation doesn't define them as women. You don't see lesbians speculating about this or that actress being lesbian just because they fancy her, unlike most gays. Most gays act like entitled like spoilt children.

[quote] She knew gay porn existed but she didn't know that women watching gay male porn was a thing, she thought that that didn't exist

Was she raised without internet access by the Amish?

I'm not doubting you, but it's mind-boggling coming from someone that young.

R312 it's because most gay men are screwed up and constantly seeking that validation from the heterosexual elite but will never get the COMPLETE validation that they want

The question is always when does the fight for full rights stop? What is the end game?

If gay men did have EXACTLY the same rights at every level as straight people they would STILL complain, because I think a sizable percentage of gays want special rights and want hot straight guys to start listing after them and want gay stuff everywhere and want women to love seeing 2 guys together because it makes them feel better or excepted

It'll never happen, as someone posted upthread, man AND women are WIRED to be repulsed by 2 guys together but are CONDITIONED at young ages to seeing 2 women in close or romantic encounters, also women are CONSTANTLY objectified in society while men arent, so it's become almost the NORM for a woman to occasionally find a woman attractive and experiment and no one bats an eue/it's encouraged

Lesbian sex antics BRING straights together, gay male stuff UPSETS or repulses the straights and is always viewed negatively even by people who claim to be fine with gays

I'm a huge hockey fan and on my Facebook pages there's always a WOMAN who starts threads where she makes fun of players she hates like Crosby and Malkin of the Penguins by implying that they're gay lovers or imposing their faces over the Brokeback Mountain poster and playing it as the ultimate insult to men and everyone thinks it's hilarious because deep down the worst thing a man can be is bi.

It's WOMEN who do this most of the time

R314 Most gays are mysoginistic. I do not understand why women (in general) are so supportive of gay rights.

I don't know about his particular facebook group, but implying that men are gay lovers is straight men passtime when some sport rivalry is implied.

And I'd wager a good sum that it's also WOMEN who write Crosby/Malkin gay fiction on your hockey site, R314.

^ That's a niche, most women don't even know who Crosby and Malkin are

Homosexuals are loudly demanding special treatment as if they're unicorns.

I think the point is that, for any male/male pairing you can think of, it's women who are out there writing porn about it. So the "women can't handle gay male film stars" party line here on the DL is sheer bullshit.

"I think the point is that, for any male/male pairing you can think of, it's women who are out there writing porn about it."

That's because men don't care about writing silly fanfic. And men prefer visual porn to written stuff. Slash fic writers are a niche, they hardly represent the typical woman. Love the faghags who post here and think they represent the typical straight woman.

The fact that gay male actors are strongly encouraged to remain in the closet whereas female actors can be more open reflects how society views sexuality in general. Female sexuality is still seen as "less threatening" than male sexuality. Women fooling around with other women is fun and titillating, while men fucking men is seen as unmasculine.

I have a friend who is an actor in his early 30s now. He established himself in London doing movies, tv, and film and built a solid resume as a strong actor actor. Once he had a fair amount of credits under his belt, he moved to LA to try and build a career there. He met with a couple agents who were interested in signing him up and basically each one told him that if he wanted to build a more prominent career in Hollywood, he'd have to publicly remain closeted if he wanted to get steady work particularly in film.

I wonder who r321 is talking about.....I've heard that a lot of British actors are told to start closeting themselves once they try to make a go of it in Hollywood.

R319 wrong. For the 100th time, WOMEN DO NOT like seeing two men together, it upsets them and ruins their fantasy or they're flat out repulsed by it.

Yes SOME women, I've known about 3 in my life, are into it and are turned on by it but the overwhelming majority, get out of your gay ghettos fags, do not want to see that.

By comparison I think every straight guy I've ever talked to about sexuality just LOVES lesbian shit

A lot of them try to get their girl to do lesbian shit for them, it's their ultimate fantasy, I even know a few straight guys who will ONLY date bisexual women

So what happened to your friend, R321?

[quote] man AND women are WIRED to be repulsed by 2 guys together

Not true at all, at least when they're not in private. It's well documented that a large percentage of men who claim they're 100% straight get sexually aroused at the sight of two men having sex if they're watching it happen alone & in private.

[quote]I've heard that a lot of British actors are told to start closeting themselves once they try to make a go of it in Hollywood.

Look at Luke Evans. He was openly gay in the British scene, talked about it in multiple interviews. When he first started making a go of it in America he actually attempted to closet himself again. It didn't really work because the gay blogosphere caught wind of it and called him out, but he actually tried.

The ultimate formula in Hollywood for successful gay actors is stay closeted, marry a gay actress, somehow produce a kid or two. The pressure is real.

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This is new?

Since the beginning of Hollywood movies actors get hired not for their talent but how many asses they can put in theatre seats throught their names or looks. Call it outdated, call it homophobic, but the players in Hollywood set it in stone that openly gay actors don't put as many seats in the theatre as straight /closeted actors and to this day some studios and talent agency handlers live by that set in stone rule. This is why it's so important to support everything and everybody who attempts to obliterate that set in stone rule.

[Quote] . Call it outdated, call it homophobic, but the players in Hollywood set it in stone that openly gay actors don't put as many seats in the theatre as straight /closeted actors and to this day some studios and talent agency handlers live by that set in stone rule.

I assume that would be [italic]all[/italic] of them.

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