Pedal to the metal!!!

Part 2 ??

I just read on twitter that it’s possible the 3 older kids have been located??? No link or official news though. Yet.

Apparently the transition from question marks to exclamation marks was too subtle for R1.

Petal to the meddle? Peddle to the mettle?

R579 What a lovely and articulate response. I take it you do not agree that it would be great if this tragedy and the attendant rancor shown by blacks toward white adopters will help drive the blacks to adopt black children, thus alleviating the problems of culture clashes.

Just so you know, 14 people agreed enough with me to give me a W&W, So I guess that you wish them a "Go fuck yourself" as well.

14 people!

You know OP's a fat lazy whore, right?

Uh, this is starting off well...

Sigh. If you need me, I’ll be in the “Hottest Roman Emperor” thread.

See at 1:29:20 the retracing of the path likely travelled. This is from the utuber referred to previously analyzing various crimes. I assumed the road they were on was hugging the coastline for a good distance, but apparently not. The road goes through the densely forested mountains and where they plunged is a very short distance from where the road pulls out of the mountain, reaching the coastline.

Were they familiar with the area? How did they know the cliff was high enough for their purpose? Scary shit.

That YouTube ghoul is creepy. He adds nothing to this convo.

Shouldn't it be 'Pedal to the carpet'?

I wonder if they pushed the kids over the edge then got back in the car to off themselves.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

I esp love his “theory” that when Bernie lost the Primary “thier lives fell apart.” News flash Mr Obvious, things were bad before Bernie - to even endorse Bernie (as opposed to Responsible, capable, experienced Clinton) in some circles would have been recognized as a lapse in judgment. Freak.

Where did they live in Minnesota? I heard Alexandria. Which makes no sense.. that is nutcase land, Michelle Bachman types. I would believe the KKK is there.

R15 the story is bad enough. No need to create false info to wank to. I wish my closets were as neatly stacked as that storage area.

R14, I don’t care what anyone says, the Daily Mail always digs deeper than American media. Always.

Used to dismiss them as a cheap tabloid, but they’re earning my respect.

Oh good, R19, good to know that Robert “Putin’s best mate” fucking Murdoch is earning your respect.

There was one complaint in 2013 in Oregon, details not yet released.

--July 18, 2013: West Linn police generated a report based on a child welfare concern that came in to the department involving the Hart family. West Linn police said they forwarded their report to the Oregon Department of Human Services. That document has not yet been made public and the details of the complaint are unknown.--

Authorities are assuming the bodies of the other 3 victims were swept out to sea.

And yet R5, you're dense enough to dead link back to a post on the original thread.

Can't grasp cut and paste?

Who will play Jen?

Melissa Leo!

There will be a lot of theories about the missing bodies.

R51, you should be put away!

R26, where is R51?

If they did this on purpose, the mother (or mothers) who did do this may fall into the “paranoid” classification of family annihilator, the kind who believes that they are doing this to “save” their family from whatever the perceived crisis is.

Yes, R28. Either that, or one controlling personality that killed them all to save face, or out of anger.

I have no doubt someone in that van drove it over the cliff on purpose. You have to be a sociopath to do this. Or psychosis. Or paranoia. I've considered other explanations and there just aren't any.

^ hoping that’s sarcasm

People keep shrieking “bitches” and “cunts” plural here but it is highly likely that one of the mothers is a murder victim too.

My own speculation here, but Jen seems to be the dominant one of the "tribe". I think she was so infuriated. i can't imagine the car ride to California. It had to have been hell.

She was apparently the one driving, R33.

If it was not an accident, then someone with those type of uncontrolled anger impulses may have been beating up their probably gaslit partner too as well as the kids as

R32 That didn't escape me.

The two dogs are missing from their home as well.

If the missing kids are in the ocean, how long do you think the bodies would resurface (if ever)? Didn't Laci Petersons body resurface later?

They don’t my necessarily resurface R38

These people had no way to support themselves, let alone 6 children.

"God will provide" except God never does.

Why drive so long & far for such a purpose?

From the Oregonian

Updated: April 2, 8:55 a.m.

An SUV carrying an Oregon family may have intentionally sped off a cliff along the coast of California, killing at least five people, law enforcement officials confirmed Monday to The Oregonian/OregonLive.

Data taken from the software of the GMC Yukon driven by the Hart family shows the vehicle came to a complete stop at Route 1 pullout near the town of Westport, the California Highway Patrol said. The SUV then sped off the edge of scenic rock face and plunged 100 feet below.

That information combined with the fact that there were no skid marks at the scene has led investigators to believe the crash was no accident, authorities said.

"Based on the information we have at this time, we believe this crash may have been intentional" California Highway Patrol Officer Olegario Marin told The Oregonian/OregonLive Monday.

Read the article, the missing kids were probably swept out to sea. Done. Just horrible.

R42 probably so they could utterly terrify the kids first. Probably a big long lecture about ungrateful they are, how they brought this on themselves, how they all deserve to die. Abusers always deny responsibility and make a big show and dance about it’s everyone else’s fault. The fuckers rarely go quietly.

Are we sure one of them wasn't on some weird, peyote-esque psychedelic they got from one of their "Beloved" type festivals? Some bad hippy tea?

[quote]There will be a lot of theories about the missing bodies.

Do you suppose?

I doubt it’s plural “they”, R46. One woman was murdered too.

They just seem like the types that believe they are, like, totally ready to take some DMT without a shaman because they're spiritually evolved.

R49 [were]

R48 how do you know they weren’t in it together?

#Pray4Devonté

Their life was like that creepy "Jabberwocky" intro I remember being disturbed by as a kid. "Jabberwocky" was before my time but the RISD grad tokers at PBS would play it on syndication every once in a while, early some mornings. "Illuminati!" Youtubers would have a field day with it, now:

R53 Don't mean to derail the thread but does anyone else remember this? I'm a Millennial, so this would have been from when my parents were kids but I remember thinking the program felt like an alien world, it was very hippy-trippy and that there was just something so creepy feeling and dreamlike about the credits.

They're searching today near the border of Mendocino and Sonoma; The Sea Ranch/Anchor Bay area.

I’m not American r55, is that far from where the car went off the cliff?

This was on the first thread but it's such a doozy it's worth reposting:

An elderly man was standing at the end of the bagging area conversing with the woman checking us out. He spots our son – looks him up and down.

Man: I can tell you are going to be a baseball player when you grow up.

Son: *Pauses, tilts his head and gives a closed mouth grin* Actually, no. Baseball isn’t really my thing.

Man: Well, I can tell you are going to be a ball player.

Son: (As his mom, I can tell there is a slight frustration inside of him) No, I don’t even play baseball.

Checkout lady: Oh, I bet you’re going to be a basketball or soccer player then!

Son: No, I don’t play any sports. It’s just not my thing. There’s nothing wrong with sports or anything, I just have other interests.

Checkout lady: (in a befuddled nearly astonished voice) WHAT!?!? I have NEVER met a kid that looks(!!!) like you that doesn’t play sports.

Man: *chuckling* Right?! never. They all do!

***My face was as red as my hair at this point. It was so obviously clear what was happening. While I wanted so badly to step in and protect my son from the ongoing racial stereotyping, I didn’t. I let him step into his own power and he handled it brilliantly***

Son: Well, of course you’ve never met a kid like me. I’m one of a kind. There’s not another person like me.

Man: Well, what do you want to be when you grow up?

Son: I’m here to help people. I’m here to inspire. Now.

Man: Oh, so you’re going to be a doctor? (as he laughed while he said it – not kidding)

Son: No, I’m not.

Man: Well, being a doctor is the best way to help people. What are you going to do to help and inspire people?

Son: (putting the last of the bags in the cart) I’m going to be myself. No matter how much people try to make me something I am not. Have a great night! *flashes ginormous smile*

Yes, I can easily imagine those last words coming out of a teenage boy's mouth. She must have a killer memory too, being able to recall the conversation word-by-word like that. Who the fuck does she think she's kidding? The best part are the filmscript-like action cues ("Pauses, tilts his head and gives a closed mouth grin").

She can't even get her stereotypes correct, notice how the old guy said baseball player first (isn't baseball a sport usually associated with whites and Dominicans?).

^Link

Anchor Bay and The Sea Ranch are about ten miles apart, so seventy to eighty miles south of Westport, r56.

[quote]I’m here to help people. I’m here to inspire. Now.

People who adopt children under a certain income threshold should be forced to live and raise their children in a good public school district.

She no doubt made the whole conversation up r57. And if it did happen I bet the old guy says that to every teenage kid who strolls into the shop.

Thanks r59

They didn't leave Minnesota because of a supposed cross burning, they left because CPS got involved with the family and one of them was charged with child abuse. Which meant the county CPS would continue to keep an eye on them. So they left the jurisdiction, meaning the county CPS no longer had any power or control over them. They did that every time authorities began looking into their family situation. That's why they ended up homeschooling the kids, too - the fewer people the kids could talk to and who could report them, the better.

Abusers are into controlling and intimidating people to show who's boss. They have no intention of allowing anyone to do it to THEM. This couple knew time was running out and they were going to be exposed. So they had nothing to lose, and decided to impose the ultimate punishment on the kids for telling on them.

People like these are very practiced at making themselves look good to the world, but in the privacy of their home, they are monsters.

I still wonder if the one of the kids perhaps died or was seriously injured by abuse and they decided instead of facing murder/cps charges they drove off the cliff.

Are the three missing kids all biological siblings? That would be another red flag that they had been "dealt with" by Jen Hart elsewhere. We know that two of them were the whistleblowers that alerted the neighbours that things weren't right with the family.

Hope the review of their computer files and emails will reveal what happened.

Until the missing three are accounted for I can't shake this feeling like we are not really grasping the full role of Devonte in this whole situation. Something about him seems really strange to me.

R67, I think you’re on to something. He was the star. He was the golden child. He was taking control of his situation. He was a threat.

R63 nailed it, too.

[quote] They didn't leave Minnesota because of a supposed cross burning,

I don't know what to make of this. Would it be that crazy for a redneck town in Minnesota to burn cross on the lawn of a couple of lesbians with adopted black children? If it is true, I wonder if they filed a police report of if any of the neighbors knew about/witnessed it?

Exactly what was it that Jen seemed to have against formal academics and "real" careers? As we all know, she home "schooled" the kids (I'm really curious if they were actually learning anything other than how to hug strangers and perform creepy interpretative dances in your underwear. At least with those Duggar freaks, you actually saw the mother sitting at the table teaching the kids arithmetic and whatnot) and she herself was a store manager at Kohl's—not exactly someone who could be considered extremely accomplished.

I get the feeling that these creepy control freak homeschooling parents are dealing with major inner feelings of inadequacy, and perhaps they subconsciously dislike the idea of their kids escaping their grasp and achieving more than they ever did. Which explains why they would purposely make sure their kids are socially and academically stunted for life. Twisted.

This is from the link at R58:

[quote]Jen hopes the question, what do you want to be when you grow up? extinguishes from our cultural lexicon.

[quotes]“Perhaps we can replace it with questions that don’t catapult children 20 years into the future. What are you passionate about? What inspires you? What excites you? What makes you feel good?

[quote]“I think society needs all the reminders they can get that they are not defined by their careers. And for the love of the universe, let’s not categorise abilities by skin tone. Let’s move forward, shall we?”

I actually can get behind the idea of asking kids what interests/excited them, instead of asking what they want to be when they grow up. A kid obviously doesn't really know (they just know what they like the idea of). But I'm suspicious about any idea coming from someone like Jen.

I think none of this shit matters in parenting, the only important development in the past 40 years is learning that hitting isn’t effective.

So this dumb dumb mom failed.

Jen liked to push the "Little Devante with the big heart" stories and it must have infuriated her to find out he betrayed her and was trying to get help/get the hell out. I think he is dead.

Actually, R40, the $ is not bad, esp if you do not spend it on the needs or sn of the kids.

MN pays well, but there was that pesky criminal conviction for child abuse (90 day suspended sentence with another charge dropped for the plea, they really do not like to make first graders testify).

On to OR where they pulled the kids out of school and did not register as homeschoolers, no oversight meant no materials or support for the sn of the kids. Oops, another CPS investigation so off to WA, which happily, paid more than OR.

Then in WA, oops that pesky CPS again.

WA will pay up to 80% of what they would have spent on foster care, and it adds up. It has been rumored that they pulled in north of $80k for the kids.

Sarah likely made @50-55 k as an asst store manager at Kohls.

Jenn abused the kids and gamed and snacked.

More on the neighbors, they have a daughter who works with SN kids and understood things like RAD and food insecurity, that is part of the reason that they delayed intervening. I doubt the neighbors will ever recover, esp the wife. They DID care.

The CPS worker DID bring law enforcement on Friday to the first visit. Without an immediate warrant, the bolt for CA was effective.

Yeah r67 the kid they starved and used as a front man to pretend they were the perfect family who asked neighbours to call social services was also secretly plotting with his evil mothers to kill all of his siblings. Why would he have asked for help if he was involved somehow? He was a victim of abuse, stop blaming him just because he was weird.

The worker even came out the same day. I am not a fan of CPS but Jenn was not going to let her abuse come to light and lose her little cash cows. They were gonna PAY.

One change that CAN/SHOULD be made is preventing anyone with a conviction for child abuse from home schooling. Those kids need to be out in the world.

R64, I agree something extreme had to happen for Jen to drive off the cliff. From the facts we have right now it doesn’t seem enough.

If these kids had all been abused in the past wouldn't they have been in some sort of therapy or counseling? Did they have any sort of rehab going on at all?

Sure it was, R77. The narcissist was about to be exposed widely as a monster, not the white savior. Her life was defined by social media and adulation from virtual strangers, this would kill that image. In addition, one or both would face jail time after Sarah had a suspended sentence for child abuse. With the loss of the kids, they would lose potentially $80k+ in income, with at least the breadwinner going to prison. The end was closing in so they did a Thelma and Louise. Read about family annihilation, Jenn ticks several of the boxes.

These dingbat “friends”...

“Family friend Max Ribner said he was not ready to believe the crash was intentional.

He said the Harts left Alexandria, Minnesota, for Oregon looking for a change of weather and pace. He said the greater Portland area was more accepting of LGBTQ people.

"As much love as they put in the world, there were times when it was challenging for them to be a family with six kids and hold the energy of what they put out," Ribner said. "I don't think people realize what it takes to be a mother, raise six kids, many of whom came from hard backgrounds."

Uh, yeah, we DO realize what it takes to be a mother of six kids from hard backgrounds.

That’s why people don’t rush out to adopt multiple crack babies.

R78, the kids having therapy was too much of a risk, they went to homeschooling after the child abuse conviction, rather than, you know, stopping the abuse of the children. I suspect that there was little to no education going on either, esp with no support or materials from the district. Jenn snacked and gamed all day and no education or interventions kept the kids sn and the $ rolling in.

Reality is dawning for some of their dippy friends.

The friend, who had known Jennifer Hart since childhood and spoke on condition of anonymity, said she and Sarah Hart were loving mothers who home schooled their children and took them on travel adventures — though people missed that “those trips coincided with visits from CPS,” the person said.

They could have gotten death threats. When that photo of him and the cop when viral, it drove people crazy.

Now it is driving people crazy again, for other reasons.

They moved because of KKK burning crosses. Oh, and the alien visits. And the Illuminati spies in the woods behind the house. And the FBI surveillance. And the

From Reddit...

Also, circumstantially, a guy I know who lives in north Clark County noted years ago that a lot of child abusers lived in north Clark County - you're reasonably close to an urban area, but it is very rural, so your activities don't attract a lot of attention.

They had 8 people crammed into 3 bedrooms, with no one but Sarah regularly leaving the house or even going outside. The neighbors in 2 states noted that the kids seemed trained not to respond or to engage to social chit chat. I fear we might not even be close to imagining how bad it was.

They were trained performers, Devonte was like a little Michael. Yet a 6 year old was pummeled with fists, put in a cold bath and waterboarded and another girl had her front teeth knocked out. Almost makes being chained to the bed idyllic.

Very Sad new details in that article R74, that the only child the neighbors would see outside at their last home was Devonte doing chores, and he would not speak with them, until he came asking for food last month and specified he wanted six bags of tortillas and six jars of peanut butter, one for each child I presume, and to keep it dissimulated outside and each child would sneak out and take a bite. It also mentions the husband found a pretext to go knocking on their door at one point to see if things looked normal, but that overall it was made clear by the women that they wanted their privacy, in other words leave us alone.

I believe these 2 cunts were rabid racists, at heart, and thought of these children as 3/5ths human. They trained them to perform like circus monkeys and pocketed all the cash they brought in.

R87 nailed it.

The lovey dovey hippy dippy bs covered real animosity.

Abuse, no education, isolation from peers and other humans? Pure evil to do that to human beings. I hope those women suffered and died over days.

Can no one on this site think of the children???!!!!

They watched too many movies and thought they had some magical negroes that could raise themselves and be well-adjusted and educated by chickens and LOVE and HUGS. When reality set in they drove everyone over a cliff.

There’s a lot of similarities to the Turpins. When the Turpins we’re caught I wondered how many other abusive parents began panicking that they would one day be exposed. I bet these two shat themselves. They used a lot of the same methods as the Turpins too, social isolation unless parading the kids out for public accolades for their fake family image, starvation, homeschooling, moving around a lot and physical abuse. Since they had made such a show of Devonte they must have known that if social services deemed them unfit and took the kids away, it would make the headlines that the free hugs kid was in fact being abused. So the fuckers drive off a cliff instead.

Devonte asking for 6 packages of tortillas and 6 jars of peanut butter just breaks my heart. He had not lost HIS humanity, wanting to share with his sibs. They wanted to LIVE despite all they had gone through. House of horrors.

Social media seems to fuel some of this, but the production values and photography equipment is notable. See Sarah video on prior thread. I would not be surprised in the least if these kids were being pimped in images or web cam work. Sadly, it is way more common than you might think and anyone who would drive the family over a cliff has few scruples. Hope I am wrong about that.

It makes me sad that they cut people out who objected to their approach to parenting AFTER A CRIMINAL CONVICTION. Both family and friends, just like the Terpins. There were people who cared about the kids, even neighbors and teachers who tried to help. For CPS to go out the day of the call, with LE, is not a given. It is so tragic and so infuriating.

This must be their house in MN, pic taken in 2008, when they lived there.

Both houses are very small for 8 people.

Neighbors hesitate to call probably because what everyone thinks or knows is that a lot of "families" are borderline strange and or abusive...

For the ignorant upthread posters who thought Zippy a funny name it is short for the Biblical name Zipporah. I read they were getting more scratch from WA state than Oregon for the kids...$80k! Wow--looks like Jenn was the madwoman and Sarah held the family together best she could. The kids should have been removed after the abuse conviction....tragedy. Getting kids so u can play games and abuse the kids is sick--the lengths the lazy go to!

I wish we knew more about what caused law enforcement to say they believed all of the kids went over the cliff. Was it seatbelt data from the SUV? Video from gas or restaurant stops? Or is it just an assumption based on no evidence of a crime at the house?

Whatever the case, the search today wasn't just a perfunctory flyover so I guess they must be fairly confident that they're in the water.

We all knew Jenn was driving, now it has been confirmed.

Still cannot believe she got Sarah to take the fall when she beat the first grader black and blue.

Of course, Jenn, the one who mattered, was the one wearing a seatbelt.

Really curious if the rumors that she is 10 years older are true. I wonder if she has abuse and mental illness in her background.

If jenn was a narcissist she would blame Sarah for everything

I am guessing that seat belt data registered? Sad to think that none of them will get to grow up.

why was Sarah with Jenn?

I read that Jenn tried to have a photography business? Presumably using the tax $ meant for services for and the education of, the children.

Anyone in MN, OR or WA know anything about that?

Now we know why the Sarah bday vid looked the way it did.

I just found this...

[quote]Three of the children's bodies were found outside the vehicle. The parents' bodies were found inside it. Investigators believe the three missing siblings were also in the crash [bold]based on interviews with Hart family and friends.[/bold]

[quote]"It's mostly the people who know the family. They feel very strongly that this couple would not come this far and leave these children behind," Barney said. "There's very little property that was recovered from the vehicle. A lot of it was lost to wave action."

The article also mentions that they haven't been able to put divers in the water and that sonar wouldn't work well due to the rockiness.

There's a small craft advisory in effect until tomorrow and then a big storm expected on Thursday so unless the contents of the car are wedged tightly between rocks, they're going to be long gone and washing up elsewhere, if they wash up at all.

It is quite some crowd their defenders run in - from another board ----

Samantha Sinclair, a Portland trauma nurse who has known the family since 2014, described their home as one of joy, filled with books, music and healthy food.

'Their story is not about abuse,' she told the Washington Post. 'It is a story of triumph and love.'

Triumph? What a sickening thing to say IMO. Quote Originally Posted by carlyturner View Post Friends of the two women had them so built up to seem like saints that I doubt if they would have believed it if the children came to them about being mistreated.It's sad they really had no one to turn to.It had to be bad for them to turn to perfect strangers like the neighbors.So sad. I looked up the woman friend of the family (SS) who describes herself as a "trauma nurse" because something was so off about her comments. It's odd to me that she describes herself as a "trauma nurse" because she has not worked as one for upwards of four years now, and has established herself in a completely different kind of business. The FB page for her current business describes her as a "death doula," "medicine woman" (nb: she appears to be white, and charges $50-100/hr), and tarot reader (for $20/40/hr).

I am not surprised that this charlatan couple was able to fool so many people. It sounds like they ran with a crowd accustomed to, well, suspending disbelief.

R92 Nice to see that the "they were being pimped out" troll is still with us in Part 2.

This tragedy is horrible enough on its face; and yet you seem determined to make something sexual out of it. I agree that the women were bad people, especially Jenn, but the likelihood of them selling videos of Devonte to sexual predators is extremely unlikely.

Not every abuser is a sexual predator.

The neighbors had reported them, before to the local police/cps. It sounds like the neighbors were discouraged from contacting the authorities. They called the state authorities, after they were asked by the kids to hide food for them. They bailed before DHS (the state human services) showed up. The state had the authority to take them, at least, to a tertiary children's hospital, where they could be safe, get medical care, EAT and tell their stories to experts.

So, who told those psychos that the state was going to show up?

And some are, R105. You cannot know, particularly in this instance, in which there is documented child abuse and extreme isolation of the kids. Kids who have been traumatized may have RAD, and all kids need to be taught appropriate physical boundaries. Jenn was repeatedly and admittedly doing the opposite, boasting of him giving thousands of strangers hugs. Some, including parents and those with a CPS background can see that as poor judgment, even grooming. If you have seen an Open Secret, you would understand the use of videos like the tween dancing in his briefs being made public on Youtube. Trafficking kids in images is not at all uncommon, the US is a leading producer. Jenn sure had the necessary video equipment and fancy cameras, you cannot rule it out. No healthy parent wants their child, abused or not, to give thousands of strangers hugs on command while the kid sobs. Your zeal to paint Jenn and her actions as normal or healthy is misplaced here.

R106 no one told them necessarily. They may have told the kids to be quiet and not move when soneone knocked on the door. People abusing their kids don’t generally fling the door open and yell come in.

cps did not do anything because it would take from their program budget to provide for all these children. They wanted to have this money to realign it to something else, any program (police), or to bonuses, parties/conferences, etc. When you see cps fail like this, this is what is happening. cps is basically a corrupt agency.

cps should take children to a children hospital. If they check out, then enroll them in a public school. Again, these children would not have been cleared by a pediatrician or children psychologist who have expertise in child abuse.

the public think that cps are the experts, but they are not. the experts are at university hospitals.

Healthy and loving is not physical intimacy with thousands of strangers, on command. There are other words for that. A key part of parenting is teaching kids about healthy boundaries, but that is not what abusive parents do.

I hope that the kids were only starved, punched, stuck in cold baths, had their heads shoved under water, had their teeth knocked out and were murdered. A few photos in addition to the video already public on Youtube, now THAT is out of the realm of possibility for those well adjusted moms!

Has it been revealed yet what video games Jenn used to play?

[quote]The FB page for her current business describes her as a "death doula,"

A death doula is someone who helps deliver another out of the living world (a regular doula delivers a baby into the world). I suppose it is a service for terminal/euthanasia patients to find comfort in their passing, I find it really creepy she is a friend of theirs.

A lot of their friends are super creepy, from another board:

This is another man that Jenn verbally prompted Devonte to go up and hug in a video, a song by Nahko

Nahko & Medicine for the People - Mr Washington w/lyrics

0:22---"dreaming of the day we drive our car into the ocean"

Doulas are a made up western society bullshit thing, aren’t they? I don’t really know. But I doubt some teenage girl in Ethiopia giving birth on the floor of her hut isn’t holding the hand of her birth doula.

R111, it was talked about on the first thread, something to do with Star Wars and WOW I think? Jenn had time to be a leader of the guild (control freak!), Sarah also played.

The children were said to have no access to electronics.

Actually doulas and midwives are used extensively in other non-Western cultures.

Death doulas, never heard of that. Seems to be a bad combo with a trauma nurse, would she want to save you or usher you on?

The death doula and some guy in MN are among their most vocal defenders in the press. The death doula called the Hart family a TRIUMPH. WTF? They were murdered in cold blood by the one person who was supposed to love and protect them.

The Hart Tribe is like a cult. So many seem heavily bought in. Those festivals they all go to seem like they would be druggy, maybe that influences their perceptions?

Are the children two sets of siblings? Any possibility that the two sets kept their own counsel about what to do, and one set resisted, while the other set was more passive? Are one set of siblings’ bodies found, while the other set is missing?

The neighbors don’t seem to have any idea what the hell was going on over there, or they really didn’t give a shit. How could you refuse to call the cops when starving, abused kids are repeatedly begging for help? How hard is it to call CPS? Just because the neighbors swear tall the kids “must have been” in the car, doesn’t mean it happened.

Any possibility three of the kids went to bio relatives, maybe grandparents or cousins that were willing to take them in? Then, the other kids couldn’t go there, and the parents may have realized the jig was up when they realized three had escaped, and offed the ones that had nowhere else to go.

One of the many sad and baffling aspects of this case is dragging these poor children to endless festivals and political rallies. It sounds like a nightmare. Little kids don't give a fuck about who's running for President. It's an opportunity for the parents to feel good about themselves and how fucking woke they are, subsequently reiterated online via YouTube and social media. The parents get to show off their 'tribe' rather than engaging young people in age-appropriate activities [italic]they[/italic] enjoy: Disneyworld, parks, playing with friends (did they have any friends?). Everything about this is goddamned horrible.

Neighbors did call CPS, everywhere they lived. In MN there was a criminal prosecution. In WA, the neighbors were concerned, went over, then called, seemingly triggering the cliff dive. They were in frequent touch with their daughter, a SEd teacher who talked about RAD, food insecurity, etc, so they backed off but kept watch, even going over and being rebuffed. There is an interview with them, this was a focus of theirs since the first contact with the kids and I am not sure the wife will get over the trauma of how it turned out. The people responsible are Jenn and Sarah, not people who DID try to help.

In any abusive situation leaving is a very dangerous time, including in this instance.

CPS should be called but the outcome is not always rainbows and puppies. After all, CPS had removed these kids from homes in TX. They had prosecuted in MN.

Kids placed in group homes are at very high risk for a lot of really bad outcomes, google if you have a strong stomach. There are so few good options. If you are well adjusted and have a support system, consider taking in a child. They need people who are not abusers and who will not treat the children as an ATM. or further exploit them.

This story is so sad, I've been avoiding this thread for days.

No friends, no school, no contact with extended family or even the outside world via electronics.

Meanwhile Jenn swanned around as a savior, ate herself chubby, and gamed while cashing support checks of our tax $.

The resilience of humans and the will to survive is remarkable, look at the Turpins and at Devonte and his sibs. Some were beaten down but others were trying to escape. This story is beyond tragic.

There had to be a plan to drive off that cliff, they were stopped so must have got out first to make sure it was a good place to die. The kids probably didn't understand, or having no outside education or internet access, thought they would be able to fly to heaven or some weird culty nonsense. I bet the death doula knew of their plans, someone like her would think that them successfully killing themselves was a TRIUMPH and she was so quick to defend them.

Those sick bitches, look how skinny this poor munchkin was!

Better link

R111/R115, it was Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes

Two sets of siblings, r117. Markis, Abigail and Hannah were adopted in 2006; Devonte, Jeremiah and Sierra in 2009. Hannah, Devonte, and Sierra are the ones still missing, so not split up by group.

Hiding in plain sight

Delmonte be hugging Davy Jones' locker by now.

[quote]The neighbors don't seem to have any idea what the hell was going on over there, or they really didn't give a shit. How could you refuse to call the cops when starving, abused kids are repeatedly begging for help? How hard is it to call CPS?

My partner was visiting his mother in England a few years ago. There was a knock at the door. A small girl was there. She said she was hungry and had nothing to eat. She told him she lived in the house next door. He invited her inside, gave her something to eat and tried to find out from the girl what was going on. She said that her mother slept all day. It turned out that the girl's parents were complete drunks/addicts. They moved away soon after this incident and we don't know what became of her. I guess he should have called the police, but it's possible that under the circumstances my partner is the one who would have got in trouble ('middle-aged man invites little girl into his house' doesn't exactly sound innocuous). This was however an isolated incident-- if she had repeatedly sought food or help like the poor Hart children, then he would definitely have contacted law enforcement and/or social services. A lot of people would be just too scared/apathetic to get involved, though.

So, so skinny. And all their hippy dippy musician friends thought it was just swell.

There is a really dark underside to the world they moved in, it was not only them.

These emaciated pictures are heartrending. While Jenn gamed, sat on her ass, and lived off the tax dollars of the people of WA state. Like the Turpins, they are so small because of prolonged starvation. Sick fucking freaks!

There was speculation about Sarah’s employment and education. Here’s her LinkedIn info, not that it’s PROOF.

“Experience Kohl's Department Stores Assistant Store Manager Operations/ CFH Company NameKohl's Department Stores Dates EmployedNov 2015 – Present Employment Duration2 yrs 6 mos LocationWood Village, OR, 97060

Kohl's Department Stores Center for Retailing Excellence CFH Area Supervisor Company NameKohl's Department Stores Center for Retailing Excellence Dates EmployedOct 2012 – Nov 2015 Employment Duration3 yrs 2 mos LocationBeaverton, Oregon

Herberger's (Bon-Ton) Sales Area Manager Company NameHerberger's (Bon-Ton) Dates Employed2000 – 2012 Employment Duration12 yrs

Education Northern State University Northern State University Degree NameBachelor's degree Field Of StudyElementary with a Minor in Special Edu Dates attended or expected graduation 1998 – 2002”

Ironic that Sarah had some teaching training but was the one who worked.

can we just fire all these loser social workers and just hire more medical doctors, nurse practitioners, child development expert psychologists?

Foster and adopted children need high-level health insurance coverage for life. Their hell is not over, even if they get adopted.

NO HOME SCHOOLING. We need more teachers and learning psychologists at the school. No more principles and that type. And what the fuck is up with a death duala?

The little girl who went thru blackberry bushes to get to the neighbors at 1am with knocked out teeth looking half her age asked to be taken to Seattle (3hour drive away) -and to not make her go back home.. I would've called the cops immediately and not let the crazy moms in! another comments section of an article said in WA those kids likely received $3k each per month, or fat Jenn did rather. how could this shit show be better for the kids than their prior situation in TX? this makes me sick--maybe the 3 unaccounted for kids made it to relatives in Seattle I hope

the neighbors called the local police/cps, but they did not do shit. So, they called the state authorities. It looks like the neighbors were documenting everything, so that the state could take over. The neighbors are the good guys, they cared, they are the HEROES.

I wonder who told these abuser psychos about the state investigation? They were tipped off and bailed.

It’s strange that they lived in Alexandria MN instead of closer to Minneapolis. Alexandria - (current rep Mary Fransen, is a nut job) and the city is very conservative. Diverse queer families are somewhat abundant in Minneapolis.

I read online that Sarah was from Alexandria MN and they went to Jenna's hometown of west Lin, OR as it was more gay friendly...they were together as a couple 18 yrs! Sarah was likely controlled by jenn

I know the story has gone back and forth regarding the seatbelts, but according to the affidavit establishing probable cause for the search warrant Sarah was trapped between the roof and rear seats:

[quote]The affidavit says police were alerted to the crash just before 4 p.m. (7 p.m. ET) on March 26 when a German tourist reported a brown vehicle that was on its roof down an embankment.

[quote]Almost two hours later, according to the report, California Highway Patrol officers arrived and found Sarah Hart trapped between the roof and the rear seats of the family's GMC Yukon. Jennifer Hart was still in the driver's seat, with the speedometer "pinned" at 90 mph.

They adopted/fostered these kids for oppression and social media points. Disgusting video of them 'dancing' with people obviously high (and yes, I do drugs but if I had theoretical kids I wouldn't drag them to this kind of shit...or at least I would leave them at Brother Sun camp or something)

If my partner had abused one of our kids i don't think i could take the fall for it. That right there is a huge red flag about the dynamic of their relationship.

there is a paywall to read the article, i can't read it but maybe someone else can.

Home Schooling is a RED FLAG for child abuse.

It should be banned unless there are mitigating circumstances r141. Extreme bullying, medical issues and serious psychological problems which need to be assessed by several professionals before the kids can be homeschooled. If it’s so hard to monitor parents who home school then it needs to be stopped. If it can be monitored then they need to start doing so or every second parent wanting to hide their kids bruises will be “homeschooling” without consequence.

Stop given money to religious nutjobs. We need more doctors and child development psychologists; also, subject matter experts in our schools.

I see so many of these bad and horrible stories on cps. I think cps is bullshit. I want these children being seen by top quality medical doctors and psychologists, not some loser social workers. SHUT DOWN CPS! Expand health care coverage to foster care and adopted children. No home schooling.

FUCK these home schooling abuser psychos.

That will never happen R141 for one reason: the religious right will not allow it. They demand the right to have their kids raised with Christian values and they do not want them exposed to secular truths.

I assume that most of them cannot afford religious private academies.

If we have to tolerate homeschooling (which I completely oppose for a million reasons), they have to make these homeschooling parents produce the kids for Doctor appointments and even group functions that get these homeschooling nutters together with professionals to look for red flags like starving kids, missing teeth, etc.

R140 -

That article said they studied at a SD university and were from that state originally which is in opposition to reports they were from OR and MN

r14 say what you will about the Daily Fail but they have been good sources for the Turpins and this case.

The public thinks cps are the experts in child abuse and child welfare, but it is not true. CPS is a corrupt agency. Foster and Adopted children need high end health insurance for life. Be seen by university hospitals, the tertiary hospital system in the state

CPS blocks children from medical care, school and food, they do not help facilitate it.

Thank you R146

Yes, i think that foster and adopted child should get free education, food security benefits and health insurance for live. No one should be able to suppress them from getting the help they need and their ability to THRIVE.

They were originally from SD. One of Sarah's childhood friends was interviewed and the video is the last thread. Her first name is Jammie, last is Harmon or Herman.

I wasn't going to post rumors but this is a harmless one. The word going around the Sonoma coast today was that they're going to go all out tomorrow and Wednesday with massive searches and if they don't find anything before the storm starts, that will pretty much be the end of it.

R148, that was my post at R14. I would never discount the Fail when it comes to putting reporters on the ground and digging up dirt from friends and relatives. What I do question is Jen's assertion that the KKK drove them out of MN by burning a cross on their lawn (immediately after Sarah's probation ended, coincidentally enough). I don't doubt that she told the Portland neighbor that story, but it seems like there would be some online record of a cross-burning if it had happened.

I do not understand why social workers and those psycho parents were able to get rich off these kids? I think the benefits go to the kids and for their entire lives. Why did these parents need to be paid off to take the kids? Isn't it a red flag that they were fostering and adopting for the money only?

I think we need reform.

Food security, health care and education benefits for the entire life of each and every adopted and foster child. Then, the school teachers and medical doctors could make sure that the kids have these benefits and are using them.

Is someone repeating themselves here?

getting sicken by these repeated cps stories. I think we need reform. WTF is cps doing? Why aren't there docs and psychologists involved?

Why don't adopted children have health insurance, education and food benefits? How is this even possible?

CPS is not what we all think it is.

What was the 19 year old child doing? No college or job, just stayed in the house?

The neighbors had problems with the local CPS. The neighbors cared about these children, but CPS did not. The neighbors were right and the CPS social worker lied, they were wrong.

those hart parents used the money to avoid public school teachers and doctors, forcing these poor kids to touch complete strangers.

R156, it's possible that one or more of the children was developmentally delayed or learning disabled. That plus being forced to live with controlling abusive parent(s) could very well result in an adult child afraid to leave home, or at minimum totally unequipped to deal with the outside world.

A post made by one of their facebook friends

March 30 at 7:31am I am about to watch my number of Facebook friends plummet.

I am feeling deeply disturbed by forces of racism and denial at play in my extended Portland community. As evidence has been coming out around long term abuse of six adopted black children by the Hart family, these is an outrageous force of denial and whitewashing arising from a seemingly "spiritual" community.

When I say abuse I mean a long term program of isolation, complete dependency, brainwashing, and physical violence. Cult stuff. There are a number of charismatic and popular voices in the community who are on a campaign of denial and whitewashing with "love and light". The emphasis on "love and light" is proportional to the inability to look at the dark side.

Sarah Hart pleaded guilty to: "Her mother struck her repeatedly with a closed fist, submerged her head under cold water and withheld meals from her for misbehaving".

Jennifer Hart drove Sarah and at least 3 of the children off a cliff going 90 miles an hour after making a sharp 90 degree turn, without hitting the brakes.

The psychologically manipulative reframing is sick: e.g. the children were not kept isolated, they were "travelers" and were being "saved from their trauma" by being homeschooled and kept indoors.

I do not mean to shame any of these voices but to bring attention to a transpersonal wound that needs intensive care NOW.

I understand that these people (MR KP EP, among others) are grieving over lost friends and probably a major implosion of their "love and light" fantasy bubble. But in this they are completely negating the documented history AND anecdotal evidence of long-term perpetration engaged in by the Hart family. No quantity of "free hugs" makes up for a single beaten child. The fact that they specifically and systematically preyed on children of color and presented a front of "racial equality" makes it all the more disturbing.

I am calling on my friends in the Portland community to hold these folks accountable. Help them grieve in a healthy way that includes looking into the darkness.

We have a micro-miniature Holocaust denial on our hands. The privileged folks don't want to have their "love and light" taken away and be left to face the darkness. Not the first time in history. This does not need a repeat, even in miniature.

This is the same social group involved in covering up the DMT-related manslaughter of Binah Zing. Not their first time around the block. It's time to wake up and feel the pain folks, you can't stay numb forever.

Social workers aren't getting rich, R153, those psycho adoptive parents may have been though. The cps system is broken and there's no way to fix it. There's too many neglected, abandoned, abused children out there. Social workers are overloaded, there's so many horrible cases out there that if a family appears to be doing well, they don't investigate since they have so many cases that need their attention, and that's when you get social workers and agencies lying about home visits etc... There are children out there that are suffering from obvious and horrible abuse, so a family that can "pass" isn't given attention - for example, an agency will say they made a visit, when in reality they only made a phone call, OR they don't conduct an unscheduled visit. Social workers, especially those that work in the cps system burn out quickly and don't last long in the field. One thing that could possibly help is limiting the number of cases they carry. Also, things have gotten worse with all of the private agencies around these days. They are for profit agencies that take on state cases, some of these private agencies falsify their reports to the state and lying about home visits and follow ups.

As to why this couple was given so many children in the first place? I'll tell you why. It's because there's not a lot of people out there willing to foster or adopt older children, especially a set of siblings with possible medical or behavioral issues due to past neglect/abuse. So here, you have a couple who already adopted a set of siblings, things seemed kosher on the surface, and then they're willing to take on more children. Guaranteed there was no line up to adopt the second set of kids. Face it, everyone wants a healthy newborn. People will wait years and years for one and pass over any older children. Did you know that in the system, a child over the age of 18 months is considered "older"?

I'm not trying to defend cps in any way whatsoever, the system is broken and yes, even corrupt, but it's also very complex and there's no way of fixing it. I'm telling you there's no solution to this. Not many people want to be social workers since it's a tough 24/7 type job and it isn't well paid at all. On top of that, there are more and more dysfunctional people having children. Think about it - if a drug addicted or otherwise dysfunctional person has two, three or more kids, what are the chances that those children grow up to produce more of the same? The cycle continues and grows worse with each passing generation and even more children enter the system. The only way to stop this cycle is to provide young people with easy and free access to birth control. They should be offering FREE IUD's to young women who want/need ( no pill to have to take every day) until they actually plan or are ready to have a family and support them once they do become parents if they need it.

r144 I agree, my relative has 7 kids, her husband has a good paying job but they homeschool their kids because of their religion. There are good christian schools in the area too.

With Trump cutting back on Food stamps and Medicaid unfortunately kids all over will have even worse problems. Damn him and his wall.

I don't blame people for calling CPS, my friend's daughter was extremely shy and had a hard time making eye contact with adults and somebody called CPS. Her family was not abusive, they had taken the child to a psychologist before because of her shyness. After CPS got involved the family had to go through a lot of shit. So it is a tough call, you could ruin somebody's life by calling CPS on somebody who is innocent.

I DO think it is the fault of CPS. They are getting away with it because the public is lied to about what CPS is doing. CPS are low level social workers. They are not medical doctors who are experts in child abuse and child development. They are not teachers.

Why the fuck do we give social workers jobs and health care benefits? We should be giving these benefits to the children. Right? These adopted children need these benefits for life. The neighbors had to give food to these kids, it was not CPS social workers helping with food, medical care and education. The CPS social workers thought is was fine that these kids were trapped in the house without food being home schooled by these cunts.

How glaring a red flag is it that these women were deliberately isolating vulnerable children while doing everything they could to avoid anyone who's a mandated reporter (pediatricians, teachers, psychologists, social workers, and so on)-- it's like they were running a miniature Jonestown.

[R164] states you can ruin someone life for calling CPS.

Does this sound like a sane agency to you?

Calling to help a children should not have the threat of destroying the child or a loving family. I think we would all be more comfortable if these children are taken to a children's hospital for on-going care, including medical, educational and FOOD.

[R166] CPS social workers were consistently called and have been involved. They did not do shit. The neighbors called the state because the cps did not do anything.

I think people would be shocked to learn that on-going medical care, education and food is not involved with cps or foster/adopted children programs.

Just think, we have 432 posts to go...

There is always Golden Girls threads, R169

If only someone would start a Dyatlov Pass thread. I'll just keep waiting.

I wonder how many Michfests these children had to attend with the boys being put in the concentration camp.

Life long medicare care, education and food benefits for all foster and adopted children. It does sound like cps is a bullshit program and we really do not know what they are up too.

Also, it is a spectacular stupid idea to pay foster/adopted parents/cps off and not give money and benefits to the children themselves. The former sounds like an idea that only a corrupt abuser would think of.

[quote]"The search for the additional three children belonging to the family continues both at the scene, through water rescue and recovery, and other locations including routes of travel,"

Between saying that they based their belief that all six were in the car mainly on the statements of friends and family and now talking about searching roadways, it sounds like they're backing off a bit on the earlier statements.

It would be really freaky if Jen drove a car full of dead bodies over the cliff.

Although it would be better then driving them over alive r174.

This is a very disturbing story. I need therapy just reading about it. Imagine the health care, therapy and other needs of the actual children. The deranged friends of these psychos said that they came from very abusive home situations, well okay, why didn't they have the top quality psychologists and medical doctors? And what about FOOD?

CPS did noting to facilitate and pay for this either. What the fuck does cps do?

Holy Mother of God MARY! @ what R160 posted

R176 you’ve said the same thing at least 10 times. Are you stuck on repeat? We got it the first time, you hate CPS, they’re the worst, blah blah blah.

Children need medical care and education. Why wasn't this provided for them? There are so many of news reports, but nothing improves or changes.

CPS uses social workers, not medical doctors or psychologists, because they can pay them less.

Many posts have said that these women would have been making bank from having special needs kids. I know there's Federal SSI but what states give aid to adopted children who were adopted in a different state?

It used to be that if you fostered a child you got money from the state but if you adopted that same kid, the state payments stopped. Has that changed?

A co-worker adopted three special needs kids and he gets some sort of state aid plus all of their health and dental is paid for. Flyover state too.

Was Jenn on DHT when she drove everyone off the cliff?

Are authorities looking for the missing 3 kids south at Sea Ranch due to the ocean's current?

What if the family was driving south and stopped at Sea Ranch for gas and the 3 kids jumped out of the SUV and ran? Jenn turned the SUV around and started driving back north to the turnout to end their lives knowing that Devonte and the others would contact authorities.

So she ended it w/ Nahko's lyrics about "driving into the ocean" and doing a "Thelma & Louise" which was just shown on TV.

It took 2 hours for the Hwy Patrol to get to the crash site after the German tourist reported it. WTF? What if someone was still alive at that point but died before the CHP reached them?

[quote]Understanding #global, #social and #racial issues... The world needs to know your legacy. Of how through struggle, you have gotten a chance to know what following your gifts looks like. Of what dancing to musical medicine looks like. Of what supporting political marches and racial equality looks like. Of what looking beyond yourself and raising money for charities looks like...even on days we call birthday.

[quote]As parts of the world may create a narrative, I and we stand here as your brother, sister, auntie, uncle, father, mother, cousin, distant friend, stranger & human to protect your legacy. Let it be known...Let it be known the amount of hardship your two angels had to carry...Two shining lesbians and 6 superhero children rocking the world to a new wave of life. Rocking the festivals like no other family has. Like Amma, giving thousands of hugs today. Like #MLK, looking after your people of all races. Like #Gandhi in your activism. Like Mother Teresa in your caring for everybody.

....like John List, keeping your family together.

Wow, DENIAL bigger than that river in Egypt.

Anti-CPS troll - the parents were getting more than $80K for the kids per year in support funds. The kids HAD medical insurance through the state. It was JENN & SARAH who chose to keep them from doctors, lest they told and who withheld food as PUNISHMENT.

The kids were removed by CPS in TX. CPS prosecuted a parent criminally in MN. Then they moved. CPS investigated in OR, then they moved. CPS investigated in WA as soon as they received a report. I am NO fan of CPS but they did not do nothing. It should not be possible to move and thus evade all oversight, there should be a national registry. Parents with an abuse conviction should NEVER be allowed to homeschool and isolate.

NO ONE tipped them off, people did NOT come to their house, so when someone came knocking they knew the jig was up. The neighbor had gone over once and was rebuffed. Shortly thereafter they DID call. CPS came within hours, with LE. If no one opens the door, they cannot enter without a warrant. Had they had the record from MN, maybe they would have gotten one. The neighbor reported about the food, not 6 year olds being punched and waterboarded. Thus, they tried to get entry, then left and tried again. Jenn & Sarah were well aware that CPS was about to yank their little cash cows, so they ran.

R107

R138 This is why I was wondering if the driver was on something. It sounds like the children were on an obsessively restricted diet, too, so they could be into "natural" supplements or hippy teas acquired from less than reputable sources.

Re post at R160, DMT does not mix with hot tubs children

The deceased was a big participant in the Beloved festivals, along with the Harts on their road show. Jenn reminds me more and more of Joe Jackson. As the kids grew up, hanging on strangers was less cute. The moment for a reality show passed. Reality was evaded by isolation except for druggy hippy friends seen at festivals and gaming all day in fantasy role play.

The bins stacked to cover a WINDOW, one marked with the props/costumes of hats & accessories says it all. It was a small 3 bedroom house but the costumes blocked the windows. These kids were the shuck & jive money maker for the 21st century and it was absolutely disgusting, especially being wrapped in bogus racial harmony BS. Everyone who did actually see them seems unmoored in reality. Such a tragedy.

Keep in touch with family and friends who are parents, who seem to be struggling. Offer to babysit and try to get close to the kids. Give them electronics and keep in touch. If people isolate to an extreme degree, move around a lot, call and call at their new residence too.

Good point, R188, might also help keep them compliant, too.

the New Age hippie types are all on weird diets

This news report shows the Hart house. It was big.

How do we know the kids were on a weird diet? I thought that they were just starved?

I do not think it was so big, R192, a 3 BR for EIGHT people?

R191 There's also a common casualness among New Agey "one foot on a Walkabout in the Bush, one foot in suburbia" circles with certain drugs that are incredibly potent and mind-altering but are "natural" and tied to native tribes, so they carry some moral cachet and anthropological respectability.

But you can not take peyote and go drive your children to drum class afterwards. It makes me think of Mt. Everest climbers who half listen to what the Sherpas are telling them and show-up on the mountain with boots that haven't even been worn in yet.

The house in the news report looks big to me.

3 bedrooms: 1. 2 moms 2. 3 girls 3. 3 boys

My friends in school had 9 kids in their family. Their house was smaller looking than the Harts.

Sara looked to be as heavy as Jenn.

I wonder if Devonte was planning the kids' escape w/ the food from the neighbors. He couldn't say, "We're going to run away. Can you give us the food we need?"

They knew were used to camping. I'm hoping that the 3 missing kids are camping out somewhere.

^^^ Kids were used to camping.

R194, that house seems a pretty decent size— beyond the budget of a woman working as a manager at Kohl’s whose partner stays at home gaming all fucking day. I guess if your abused children are bringing in nearly $100K per annum in benefits you can afford a larger property and a non-fee earning spouse.

Yes, r189. They sure spent a lot of money on costumes and accessories. And you’re right about that cunt being another Joe Jackson.

They’re just as bad as the Turpins. Jesus.

The culty dark nature of the world they moved in is creepy as fuck. Denying the abuse and defending them even now. How safe are the kids of others at the Beloved Festival, etc.?

Do not do drugs and get in hot tubs kiddies.

Jenn looks tense and hatchet faced, bet she really was closing in on 50. If so, why lie about your age like that?

The costumes, layers and accessories helped hide the emaciation of the kids when out in large groups. The one playing the guitar looks like a refugee, no one in their inner circle who saw the kids half dressed cared a bit.

From articles, it sounds like family and friends tried to get involved re the kids after the criminal conviction in MN, but Jenn and Sarah cut them off due to conflicts over their approach to parenting. When you just dodged a 90 day JAIL SENTENCE for beating a first grader, you could try to change, but nope, they doubled down and moved as soon as her probation was over. 8 years on, it was over a cliff as the law closed in again.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

People in the DM comments are not buying the KKK for one second.

They get the moves were triggered by trying to keep child abuse hidden. Hope there are more people like that in the world than the sick hippy enablers.

I'm still on the fence between "pure evil" or just "Pacific Northwest Hippy-Loopy".

Finally one of their “tribe” friends is waking up @R160

R202 I think you might want to look up the definition of "euphemism" before using it incorrectly again.

KKK is in now way a gentler word for child abuse.

the Turpin case really exposed the mess that is home schooling. There were something like 1,000 unregulated “home schools” in California alone and articles stated there are zero checks&balances on them. Zero rules or laws. The Turpins house of horrors was registered as a school. It all slips under the radar. Somehow.

R206, I believe that R202 meant that the Harts concocted the KKK cross-burning as a cover story for why they left town. Felony charges, child abuse, and not paying their rent all conflict with their carefully cultivated bohemian woke hippie mom image. I would need to see receipts in the form of a police report or a local news item at the material time of this alleged hate crime before I bought a single syllable of it.

R207 The problem is people artful at hiding evil doings. Just like that doctor getting kicks from assaulting gymnasts, abusive coaches, etc. It's important to have official checks, systems in place to monitor at risk children. But mostly, you can only hope the people closest to them, the ones who engage or use their services the most often, wake up and notice when something seems off.

R205 "We had no idea. She was hiding this from us. Kohl's? Did she have any idea how many of those brands produce goods based on abusive labor practices?!"

And of course it's the neighbor from Oregon that mentioned the KKK story, not the one from Minnesota who could potentially verify it. I'm pretty sure that if there had been a burning cross left in their yard that the neighbor or even the local media would have heard about it.

Yes, R208, I know what she/he meant.

I hoped that she/he might want to know that KKK is not a euphemism for abuse. Perhaps she/he would benefit from learning what the definition of the word euphemism actually is.

making whoopee is a euphemism for sexual intercourse

choking the chicken is a euphemism for men masturbating

SD is the most Christian state in the US, with 94% believers.

Were they Christian? The New Age hippy religion seems way more dominant. (And that tends to be anti-Christian)

[quote] SD is the most Christian state in the US, with 94% believers.

No it isn't, R212. You should have used a more believable figure than 94% and even that was the case, SD and its percentage of religious people has nothing to do with this story. Like R213 says, these women weren't traditional Christians anyway.

I do not understand adults who play video games all day and form "communities" with others.

Has there ever been a hippy dippy "love and light" pusher who is a good person? I"m starting to think it's all a cover up for a dark heart.

Thank you r186. I do not have the patience needed to point out reality on this thread.

I agree with all the comments about how CPS is stretched thin and unable to do welfare follow-ups, much less monitor finances and education of fostered and adopted children. We could, as a nation, choose to fund a CPS that would have plenty of workers to monitor a modest case load of children per worker. It would, however, be extremely expensive. I would love to fund a much stronger, larger CPS agency instead of paying my taxes into the military-industrial complex. But I'm pessimistic that other taxpayers would support the same change in where our tax dollars are going.

In D.C., a very generous jurisdiction, those with SSDI (Social Security Disability payments) which includes many of my clients - as children and adults - get less than $800 a month - I think it's $771. So that comes to approx $9600 a year. For 6 kids that comes to $57,600 per year. They may get other benefits like food stamps, medicaid, housing benefits, etc. But the cash is what it is.

I realize the $80,000 figure is not that much off but where is that coming from.

There's speculation that Jenn may have been bi-polar. Bi-polar is mentioned in this article about Aunt Diane's car crash.

The only solution to the crisis is to 1) try and prevent as many unwanted pregnancies as possible, and that can only happen with a solid social welfare system, education, lifting people out of poverty in the first place, and 2) trying to reunite or keep bio families together when possible by providing support to mothers and extended families (won't work in all cases of course) instead of apprehending kids because of things like poverty. You can throw all the money in the world to CPS and that won't fix a thing because there are too many children in the system and not enough foster/adoptive families to take them all in. This country is broken, so is its child welfare system and there's no easy fix. Expect situations like this one to become even more common as more and more children are born into dire circumstances to begin with.

The first case in the media that I remember that involved deaths and homeschooling was that mother in Texas that killed the kids in the bathtub (discussed at length on DL). That case received nation-wide attention in 2001. No one is really looking at what goes in with "home-schooling." A lot of people who cannot handle kids.

We just hear about a few cases.

Why don't they assign visits to teachers at public schools to home schools. Say, once a month. Find the money to pay and I bet teachers would be happy to take that as one of their responsibilities. The number of teachers required would depend on the number of home schools in the area. They could do good - giving some help and tips on the lessons. And monthly home visit would keep the crazies a bit in check.

I'm not convinced they intentionally drove over the cliff. Not yet

Say 2 half days a month a normal functioning teacher would visit home schools and check up.

I don't understand why homeschooling is legal. The parents have ZERO credentials as teachers and those children are citizens with rights to equal treatment.

R224 is a shit stirring flat-earthing troll.

R216, I keep thinking about this documentary called “Manifesting Maya: Sex Magic”. It’s about this New Age dude who’s a “sex healer” in the Southwest and he talks a good game but really he’s just a horny grifter gigolo. It’s unintentionally hilarious when his clients are attractive women; he gives them a good dicking down. When they’re fat, he just talks to them and hugs them.

But it’s serious. These burner scenesters and new age hippies are the other side of the coin of Warren Jeffs and Pat Robertson.

Sometimes the fog is so thick on PCH one has to crawl along hugging the white line on the right. There are times even that line is not visible. Could this have been the case here?

R117, I was thinking that maybe the manipulative mom played the two sets of siblings off against each other, so maybe Devonte and his two bio-sisters (let’s call them trio #1) didn’t tell their foster siblings (trio #2) about their (T#1) plans to run away because they (T#1) feared that T#2 would go running to the moms to tell on them (T#1). I was hoping that T#1 made a successful getaway, because that would be at least some kind of silver lining to this tragedy, but as time goes on, it’s looking ever more unlikely.

R219 Wa state pays 80% of what the foster care would cost for special needs kids --likely $3K per kid per mo. I find it interesting that the 2 who went to the neighbors are still missing.

Abigail, the girl who was beaten by the tub perished in the crash.

I wonder whether the 3 kids in the crash were the most disabled or special needs. The oldest boy seemed mentally challenged. If Abigail is the girl who speaks in the video of the guy singing in the pink shorts, she seemed mentally challenged. The 3rd child, the boy w/ glasses seemed normal.

What if the moms knew the jig was up and sent the 3 most able kids to be w/ family or friends in Portland or Seattle and killed off the kids they thought couldn't be adopted? In their twisted minds, they would be "saving" them like the Texas mom who drowned her kids.

No way the family of any adopted kid is receiving 3k a month.

They were drawing disability or SSI, weren't they?

If you stop at a red light do you suddenly accelerate when the light turns green?

That wa state document said minority makes the, special needs. From what I found they were likely "only" getting state cash of avg 1600$ per month per kid but other benefits like medical dental too --dunno if SSI I'd additional. But they for sure had enough to feed those kids. Shame on them, disgusting...

R230 : States offer these benefits to get the kids into permanent homes and reduce the state's expenses. But these kids come from Texas originally, so wouldn't their subsidies be whatever Texas offers, not the rates paid by the states they moved to? (Texas might have an equally generoous rate of subsidy but somehow, I doubt that.)

On another topic, if this was a premeditated act, why would they drive 10 hours to California first?

I agree. Its just so bizarre.

They may be too familiar with the Oregon coast and needed to find a remote area --I drove the west coast with the desire to see Mendocino but missed the turn off completely

R229, what I’m wondering is if some of the kids called their bio family behind the adopted parents’ back. The bio family are probably shady people if they lost custody, or maybe on drugs or ex-cons, or didn't want the kids, but after hearing the horror stories, may have agreed to take them. But legally they don’t have custody and may be on probation, so don’t want the attention of law enforcement. Maybe afraid if the authorities find out unfit people have them, they may take them away and give them to more loons, so they’re just keeping quiet. If they have had run ins with the law before, they may be afraid they’ll be charged with kidnapping the kids from the legal guardians, Loon 1 and Loon 2.

I'm curious to see whether the third missing kid was involved in the 2013 CPS report.

Yes, I believe they did move when CPS came to them. I also believe that though it is 2018 these 2 women were deeply concerned that thier Lesbian identity created a bias. Yes, that stuff STILL goes on everywhere including the workplace. Since the theft of the Electin even any mention of LGBT issues have been removed from US.Gov.

That reality was as palpable as Sarah being sentenced for HORRIBLE Child battery. (In my experience, child battery does go hand in hand with food deprivation). So they were pretty fucked up. I also can see that they were in with a bizarre hippy dippy BS scene.

Amma Hugs is nothing if not a cult slightly better than Rajneeshpuram, except she doesnt advocate poisoning people.

Occams Razor prevails here - they fled officials. Maybe indecisive about returning, just trying to “figure it all out.” (Interesting that the YouTube link to a favorite musician about driving a car into the ocean is no longer available.) Jenn’s Darker nature got the best of them. I believe all were in the vehicle, hopefully asleep, middle of the night when they went over the cliff. Being a sleep would have loosened the seatbelts - or maybe the women did that as the kids slumbered on. They were all tossed from the car.

What I want to know is had they ever been to that particular overlook before. I hope those teens were asleep. Fuckers. I agree Home Schooling should have far far more stringent requirements - including home inspections.

Agree R225, it seems like an insane oversight. Shit, I’ll need a job soon. I have a degree and a little experience. Give me some training and I’ll be part of a group that checks on home schools. Or yes, integrate it into the current education system, in some way. When the Turpin case surfaced, lawmakers, etc (?) literally said gee maybe we should check on them at least once a year. 🙄

The one that the abuse conviction was for perished poor baby

Maybe the 3 ran for it and the so called moms thought they went to authorities when the knock at the door came and they knew the cash cows were going to be gone and psycho jenn annhiliated the fam

All those boys wanking on bed sheets and shower walls must have been quite traumatic for lesbian haus frau Jen.

[bold]Oregon's homeschooling regulations - [/bold]

One time notification to the state

No requirement that the parents have attained a certain level of education

No ban on criminals homeschooling their kids

No-state mandated subjects

"Periodic assessment with no ramifications. Parents are not required to submit scores to the district unless they are requested"

No vaccination requirement

[bold]Washington's - [/bold]

Annual notification

[The teaching parent] "must meet one of four requirements: 1) Supervised by a “certified” person. 2) Achieved a minimum number of college credits. 3) Taken a course in home-based instruction. 4) Deemed qualified by local school board"

No criminal ban

State-mandated subjects

"Annual assessment or evaluation with no ramifications"

No vaccination requirement

R239, I hope something like that happened, but I’m getting a sinking feeling that the body recovery searchers should start looking in the woods around the house rather than in the ocean. Has every last nook and cranny of the house been searched yet?

I love how Jenn is turning into the controlling one and Sarah the follower. It took TWO adults to control 6 teenagers,however scrawny, on this death ride. They probably split the driving, and Jenn was the more brazen one at the end.

In the 37th birthday video Sarah is preening throughout like the good narcissist she is.

Story made The NY Times.

This one is going to have some legs for some time, especially due to the missing 3...

For those wondering about the size of the house, it is only 1,324 sq. ft.

[quote]A Washington state family appeared to have been in Fort Bragg the day before their SUV was found at the base of a Mendocino Coast cliff, according to a Mendocino County Sheriff’s Official Tuesday.

[quote]Cell phone records and a possible witness are the latest clues to the Hart family’s path prior to the fatal crash north of Fort Bragg, Mendocino County sheriff’s Lt. Shannon Barney said Tuesday.

[quote]“It looks like they were in Fort Bragg at least on Sunday (March 25,)” Barney said. Whether all eight family members were together remained unconfirmed, although a Fort Bragg witness thought there were all together.

Sofia Coppola's lawyers are furiously negotiating for film rights. Every A list star between 35 and 55 wants one of these Oscar bait roles. Yet I feel only a horror master can portray this ghastly story.

I think those that are against abortion should pay a higher tax and on a sliding scale to their income. Then this money should be used to take care of the kids that have been put in Foster Care and up for adoption. I think the politicians that vote against abortions and keep making harder restrictions should pay the most in taxes.

R253 - Completely agree - Voice of Sanity.

The Devonte Hart Case Highlights a Profound Racial Disparity in the Treatment of Child Abuse.

It seems ominous that the Fort Bragg sighting seems to be Jen alone. I wish we knew where the camera was. Inside a store? A sidewalk? Parking garage?

I’m assuming they would be a memorable bunch, traveling all together. Sarah and whatever kids they had with them would have had to stay in the car?

Can anyone tell me what “Fort Bragg” entails? Is it like a regular town? I’m imagining a military base where you need to pass a security checkpoint to enter. Are civilians allowed to roam around there? Why would anyone stop at a military base?

I think the $80,000 figure comes from monthly payments that are made from directly from the state to the parents of foster and adopted children. That's on top of any disability payments for which the kids might qualify.

Haven't paid too much attention to this case but the more I read, the flakier these bitches seem.

I don't think it's appropriate to take kids to political rallies and homeschooling is a way for abusers or lazy parents to go undetected.

R256, there's no military in Fort Bragg apart from a small Coast Guard station. It's a tourist town.

You are thinking of Fort Bragg North Carolina. California Fort Bragg is not a military for its just a tiny tourist town on the coast.

It makes me sad to read that a witness thinks they were all together. I know it’s unlikely but I’m holding out hope some of the missing kids are alive somewhere.

Jen being bipolar sounds about right and gives more reasoning why she’d drive off the cliff.

A lot of parents take kids to political rallies and rallies for "causes."

R259/r260, thank you!

They had to buy gas unless they brought cans--there should be footage at the agricultural check point once into CA from OR when they ask about produce

Their house and property are quite lovely , a wonderful property on which to raise kids with 2 plus acres, fenced pasture, paddocks, chicken coops, and a bonus room in the house which easily could have been a fourth bedroom.

And the women purchased the house - not a rental. So these women did some things right.

R265 what good if beating and starving them though?

[quote]A lot of parents take kids to political rallies and rallies for "causes."

Yes, the problem is that they are being pressured into doing it and most don't even understand what they are doing. It's another form of brainwashing. You think the Phelps kids had any inkling what "fags" were?

Yes, kids are used

Nah, it's no big deal. My folks took us to political rallies and they were fun. Better than staying with a sitter.

[quote]The parents of Devonte Hart removed him and his five siblings from public schools in Minnesota the day after one of his mothers resolved a child-abuse court case, The Oregonian/OregonLive has learned.

[quote]Sarah Hart reached a probation agreement April 14, 2011, a week after she pleaded guilty to physically abusing one of her daughters, who was then 6 years old.

[quote]The next day, all six of their adopted children were taken out of public schools in Alexandria where the family lived before moving to Oregon. They would never attend public school again.

Hmmm, R270. That makes the cross burning story sound even less likely.

An earlier report of abuse...

[quote]A new court document obtained by KATU News this week says Sarah and Jen Hart were interviewed by a police officer and a social service case worker in September 2008. One of her adopted children told her teacher that her mother, Jen, had struck her with a belt. The little girl was found to have a bruise on her arm.

[quote]When confronted by an officer, Jennifer and Sarah said the little girl "has been going through food issues, where she'll steal other people's food at school or eat out of garbage cans or off the floor."

[quote]They also added they "didn't know how the bruise would have gotten on [the girl's] arm, but [they say] a few days prior to our interview, [she] had fallen down eight stairs in their house." [Sure, Jen]

It was either Abigail (beaten and held underwater for a dropped penny) or Hannah (toothless; jumped out of a window and ran to the neighbor's house) because Sarah, Devonte, and Jeremiah hadn't yet been adopted.

It was Abigail.

Does anyone know why Markis’s cheeks/jaw are swollen? It’s more or less pronounced in different photos, but always prominent. Is that from bulimia?

[quote]Sarah, Devonte, and Jeremiah hadn't yet been adopted.

I meant to write Sierra.

Where did you see that it was Abigail, r273? Is there an article other than the KATU one that I linked?

R265 yeah lets see nice modest home in the plus corner. Heinous child abuse, profiteering, exhibitionism, crimes, and murder, in the minus column.

So glad we have balanced reasonable contributions like R265's. Otherwise we might think they were execrable examples of the worst in humanity.

R274, it’s pretty doubtful that he was bulimic.

R276 demands that only her observations be expressed.

You must be an absolute irrational and insufferable frau cuntt to those around you.

R725 I seen Abigail mentioned in all articles where the child is mentioned by name. This article has a link to the Minnesota complaint, and the child is referred to as "A.H."

Opps, *I've*

The local Alexandria newspaper (the Echo Press) has nothing on their site/history about a cross burning. Also, they have an interview with a neighbor who lived across the street from the family in that town, and he doesn't mention any cross burning at all. That would be so momentous a thing as to be the first thing mentioned in the interview.

Incidentally, there's very little Klan activity in Minnesota, which is not to say there isn't any. But a cross-burning anywhere in this state would've been all over the news statewide, because it would be so rare. But there was not a peep back then, and still nothing now.

Incidentally, the paper was asked yesterday to confirm the cross-burning allegation and so far, no response. So they haven't found anything to substantiate that fiction.

Someone said upthread that Sarah took the charge for child abuse but it was really Jen. Where is that mentioned, or why do people think that?

R282, see the link in R270.

Thanks, r279. Abigail was the one who was bent over the bathtub and beaten in the 2010 incident that's gotten a lot of coverage. The KATU link I posted is to a different incident in 2008 which (to my knowledge) hasn't been mentioned until today.

In the article it states that KATU obtained the court records regarding this one, so I think they were the only ones reporting it at that time.

Thanks, R283. So...why didn't the charge the right person?

I read somewhere (probably in the prior thread) that it was probably done by agreement between Jenn and Sarah.

I’ve truly had restless sleep over this horror. I’m holding out hope they find the 3 missing kids.

The problem with CPS agencies all over the country is the fact that most of their staff are hired due to affirmative action,and its damn near impossible to fire one. Look up a little girl named Rilya,that cunt social worked lied for years ! Every single case of Ive seen about CPS workers failing are,you guessed it,affirmative action hires. Im not trying to be racist in the least,just pointing out when you hire unqualified people for the wrong reasons,and make it almost impossible to fire them,this is the end result. Before you pile on me,google and see if Im not right. Any good people they do manage to get are quickly disillusioned by the corruption and incompetence of the agency and leave.

Not only are most CPS workers incompetent,they are also racist as fuck. A disparity in black child abuse being addressed ? Gee,I wonder why ? Look who's doing the "investigating" . Yet a friend of mine,a good man,middle class with a good career,was put through the fucking wriner by CPS when his 5 year old daughter fell at school and showed up at daycare with a fat lip.The teachers TOLD those racist bitches the child fell,yet he had to go through hell and spend 1000s on lawyers. I know my statements seem like a racist rant,but they arent if they are the truth. Like I said,google CPS workers fired,arrested,etc then get back to me.The whole system needs to be overhauled and I really believe orphanages,not the equally corrupt foster care system,need to start completely over.

In a longer clip of the interview with the neighbors, there is information I don't remember from earlier excerpts:

-- Jen was extremely rude the few times they talked to her about sharing the driveway

-- how small the children were

-- when Devonte went to task for food, he said the explanation the women gave when his sister Hanna ran to their house eight months earlier was a lie, that Hanna was telling the truth about punishment and food withholding.

I noticed in the home schooling state regulations the parent schooling cannot have a criminal record. Perhaps S took the hit so Jen could home school.

It would be interesting to learn if the kids were adopted by one or both.

You can have a criminal record. See r246.

No, in the regs posted from the state website above it plainly states no criminal record for the parent who home schools.

That’s good news. I can’t believe how lax the regulations seem to be, countrywide.

R281, I looked for it today too and couldn’t find anything. Are you a local too?

No requirement that the parents have attained a certain level of education; No ban on criminals homeschooling their kids; No-state mandated subjects; No vaccination requirement

I was being SARCASTIC, R206. Euphamism: indirect word or expression substituted for one considered to be too harsh or blunt when referring to something unpleasant or embarrassing.

The free hugs cult might not like punching and waterboarding a first grader or beating another with a belt, thus leading to a need to keep moving ahead of CPS, from state to state. That and pulling the kids from school shows that they knew how serious it was. One had a 90 day jail sentence that was suspended. The adulation may have ended if they blew their cover as white saviors and instead came out as batterers. But invoking a cross burning by the KKK as a FALSE PRETEXT for moving, THAT is something that makes them look even more heroic. A little in joke for Jenn & Sarah since they knew the real story. I believe white supremacy was the pretext for the move from MN to OR and also from OR to WA. Yet they kept moving to LESS racially diverse areas with fewer gay families, since isolation was the real goal. Hope that is more clear, since you raised it twice, I wanted to respond.

Hope that is more clear.

There were extremely violent assaults on young kids causing injury, they by no means fit any appropriate definition of spanking (not that I am in favor). They invoked the classic abuser fell down the stairs excuse and the kids were trained to lie and to muddy the waters. This all started BEFORE they adopted 3 more sn kids which indicates to me a collecting for $ strategy.

Festival acquaintances have come forward, one from TX who had been in the system as a kid wanted to be a mentor and stay in the kids lives, Jenn rebuffed her. Another couple, black, also tried to connect and got the same response.

For all the blather about racial justice there are almost NO people of color in their world, even on FB. I know the PNW is very white, but still.

This is a local outlet and it refers to Jenn coming home from work. Anyone know more about that?

I do not know that the neighbors will ever get over this. You can tell that they DID care. Unlike the friends they got that they were told maybe what they wanted to hear but the wife was consumed with worry about the kids. When they did call, Jenn became a family annihilator. The responsibility is on Jenn and Sarah, but the neighbors were not callous or indifferent.

I had not been aware that there was a CPS incident before the second adoption, did I read that right? Usually you need a clean record for adopting. I wonder if TX waived some of the paperwork since they had worked with them before and it is hard to get sibs adopted together?

The level of hard core isolation really makes me wonder what went on in that house. Wonder if they had something like Alexa?

Them being seen in Ft Bragg on Sunday makes me wonder what was going on in between. Given all the running from CPS, prison sentences would seem to have ruled out going back to WA. Anyone from CA have any more news or insights?

R298, I thought it might have been a typo, but I don’t know. I can’t imagine them leaving the kids alone.

There is a video from Jen Hart's fb that i wish i could post here. Someone posted it on fb and it shows the kids on a nature hike. One of the mothers is filming the kids walking in front of her. The kids are silent and walk in a straight line in front of her. At one point the kids stop and back up and form a line without any prompting from the mother(s). it was very bizarre. I've tried to find a way to post it here but i haven't been able to.

anything else from her fb? Does she have a lot of groups that she likes/follows?

Her fb is very locked down at this point. The FB for Sarah still shows some photos. I do not see videos on Jenns page, maybe they were removed? R302, can you still see it? Do you have mutual friends? Maybe that is the difference?

I realized that the Ribner guy who is all over the media defending them, and who called and harassed the neighbors in WA, is in the band with the drive into the ocean and we will all be free dude. Max R also taught the kids music for a year. You think he would notice how emaciated they were, esp when the boy was playing shirtless, above. You can see the hollows in his bones but the were heroes according to Ribner. The OR crowd seems like they have not seen much of them in person for a few years, but they knew them after the CPS in MN and OR incidents and still wished to see them as inspirations. Monsters is more like it!

Sarah mentioned to someone at a festival that she was having trouble coping with/managing the behavior of the 3 kids at home. The person offered to help out by babysitting but was turned down. Then they acquired 3 more SN kids. Ca-ching!

R302 can you download it and then upload it to a site like Youtube and link it here?

Were these people all in a cult together? This just seems odd and over the top.

From another board: Nahko is now using a "defend the Harts" hashtag on Twitter and telling his "tribe" of followers to go after people posting critically about the murderers. Odd that he would choose to involve himself in that way.

ETA: he claims Devonte had an eating disorder.

R306, i've been trying, looks like i can't download it without installing an app to bypass fb security

I think we can afford to give free health care, education and food benefits to foster and adopted kids for life, in which, the kid holds the benefit. This way we will get real experts to be able to help them. Haven't they been through enough?

Did you know that at 18 yr old, all these kids are cut off? Then what happens to them? They have nothing. Imagine, if these kids survived and were 18. They would be throw out on the street by CPS. This was CPS fault. They are dumping these kids with fucking abusers. They should be advocating for programs that help kids, reform.

A lot get benefits later, SSI covers adults too and all of these kids had been diagnosed as SN.

I read that the adoption subsidies, SSI and medical care are tax free.

The foster and adopted parents are getting the money, so is CPS. It is not for the kids. GET IT?

We want the coverage for the kids. The kid wanted to go to Settle, probably to have better doctors and care. The parents, the program and the cps social workers said NO. They all were still paid. The kids have NO benefits. As soon as they turn 18, they are cut off. They are often throw into the streets.

Now the we've seen a few of Jen's FB screeds, what are the odds of her remaining silent after the KKK burned a fucking cross on her front lawn? Please. It would have been all...

Me: ****Wailing mournfully****

Devonte: ****Tilts head to one side**** Don't cry, Mama. ***Beatific smile spreads across his face*** Mama, I just duct-taped a rose-quartz crystal over my heart chakra and set my intention for the day, Mama.

Me: ***Silent, as I let Devonte be present in his strength***

Me, finally: What is your intention, my precious indigo wolf-spirit?

Devonte: Mama, I am wrapping the KKK in warm pink light and blessings because the pain in my heart recognizes the pain in their hearts. That's why they can't trust, Mama. ***Bites bottom lip as if in deep thought *** The pain has removed them from themselves and they don't remember that they're made of star DNA marinated in Gaia's joyous tears of childbirth. They are birth-energy, Mama. They are creation. ***blindingly white diamond-beam bursts forth from his crown chakra and shoots straight through the ceiling*** Don't you see, Mama? They are LIFE!!! The process of learning to trust in your heart again is simply the dismantling of the illusion that you are separate from life isn't it, Mama?

Me: ***Tears of gratitude***

For the last time at some link above which goes directly to the state',s website there are some regs re home schooling and no criminal record for the at home parent is one of them. Oregon? Washington? And a certain level of education is required as well and the parent must also take a course to learn to home school and regular visits and testing are mandatory

So you see, read and ye shall learn

I didn't see this posted:

[quote]SEATTLE (AP) — A woman said Tuesday that she told Oregon child welfare officials in 2013 that Jennifer and Sarah Hart — who plunged off a California cliff with their children last month in an SUV — had been depriving the kids of food as punishment.

[quote]In a statement provided to The Associated Press, Alexandra Argyropoulos, a former friend of the Harts, said she "witnessed what I felt to be controlling emotional abuse and cruel punishment" toward the six children.

[quote]Argyropoulos said she was told the children had been interviewed by officials but there was nothing more the Oregon Department of Human Services could do because there was not enough evidence to make a case.

[quote]After reporting her concerns in 2013, Argyropoulos said, she was told the Hart children had been interviewed by officials from the Oregon department; it was apparent that each child had been coached by their mothers on what to say; and nothing more could be done.

[quote]Argyropoulos said she was unaware of a 2011 domestic assault conviction against Sarah Hart. She said the couple broke off contact with her after she went to Oregon officials.

[quote]"My heart is completely broken. The current system failed to protect these children from their abusers," Argyropoulos said.

Didn’t this Nahko guy used to date Shailene Woodley?

Perhaps unsurprisingly, she left him for a biracial Fijian rugby player.

Max Ribner sure is going hard for the murderous mommies - any publicity is good publicity?

On his kickstarter he thanks the Hart Tribe and Hart Visions Photography - I cannot find a website for it - wonder if it was legit?

So now we know why they hightailed it out of OR.

Clearly the kids had been trained in what to say for years. The hippie dippy druggies ate up the false narrative with a spoon. Jenn and Sarah are the types that you say - if their mouths are moving they must be lying.

I really wonder if they had a Paetron or something? Is there no BLOG by Jenn?

Starving, whipping, punching, waterboarding tiny kids - TX pulled them out of the frying pan and into the fire.

All the organizations that were legally responsible for these kids did NOTHING; the parents/guardians, the home-school org and CPS. They did not even provide food for these hungry children. The only ones who helped the kids were the neighbors. They gave the kids food and got the state authority involved bc the local CPS and home school shit org didn't care at all for these hungry and abused children.

Nahko is defending the family on his Twitter and their friends want to make a documentary of their amzing lives

How do we know local LE and/or CPS didn't act...I thought I read they went right over after the neighbors complaint

Their BFF Nahko doesn't seem to know the details of the kids' adoptions, or maybe he just prefers his own version in which they were adopted as one group, with the exception of that pesky 19-year-old who's always shoved to the back:

[quote]these amazing kids were all adopted from the same horrible situation, save one boy who was the eldest. these angels came to these two amazing mothers completely by chance. miracles happen. tragedy happens. consider the legacy they left behind. there is another side of story.

R321 What is "the other side of the story" of someone driving an suv filled with kids over a cliff? I'm intrigued.

Neighbors should have kept the girl in their home until the cops arrived. In real time these are tough calls, however.

Well I’m glad Shailene got out of Dodge.

CPS looks the other way when there is actual abuse because the have to use up their budget on helping them. If they do not use that budget, the county/city can transfer the money to something else. It does not matter how many social workers you hire or how much money CPS is given, it is a corrupt agency.

supposedly this is Jen in Ft. Bragg

They did, R320, within hours. In TX, they removed the kids. In MN, Sarah was prosecuted.

Stable people with good social support need to take in a child, there are far too few safe places to put them.

I do not know what he is talking about re the 19 year old, there were 2 groups of 3 sibs each, so there would be 2 background stories.

Who, pray tell, will want to go to see the miracle of child battering and family annihilation spun as heroic?

There is something up with him, with Max and with Zippy. Attention whores one and all, despite the depravity of the subject matter. Seriously, anyone in Portland know about these people? Are they in some kind of a cult with the death doula woman?

The kids were murdered by them. They were not removed. The guardians were still abusing them, nothing stopped and nothing changed.

They killed them before they could be removed. All the running from state to state and the homeschooling was literally to evade CPS. So was driving over a cliff. These women were evil.

Did OR know about the MN conviction in 2010 or the 2008 beating? It seems that they did not. The records should track across jurisdictions. People beating 3 special needs kids who went on to acquire 3 MORE sn kids HAD to be in it for the $. Pulling the kids the day after her plea deal was finalized says it all.

There need to be more safe and stable people with good social support taking in kids. Putting them in group homes is another horror show.

R327 someone has posted here that they didn't and the neighbor had to go to the state authorities and was sure there was a tipster to the state coming

No, it was documented that CPS was called on Friday morning for the first time in WA and that they went to the home only a few hours later with LE. The neighbors who called have said that repeatedly in interviews. No one opened the door and they left. They did not have a warrant. If they had the record from MN perhaps they would have gotten one.

This was actually a quick response and they even had LE there. The records need to be accessible.

The neighbors talked about withholding food. Unfortunately they did not mention things like the missing front teeth, to my knowledge.

The neighbors were heroes. They really need everything they could to save these kids. The local authorities did nothing. They must be completely devastated.

No news conferences yet?

R328, it appears that Jenn and Sarah saw removal and prison in the cards, imminently. Thus they drove into the ocean to be free or whatever their freaky friends sing about.

R333, there is a huge search planned for tomorrow, ahead of a storm on Thursday. CA is searching to try to trace the movements of the missing 3 on land and throwing a lot of resources into a sea search. After the storm I think they do not expect that they will be able to find the bodies.

Everyone is hoping that the 3 escaped. Maybe releasing the image and the timeline will bring tips forward.

I bet with the girl's teeth knocked out and Devonte getting more talkative with outsiders, they felt they wouldn't get away with it this time so killed everyone.

Jenn looks braless in that pic and I see she left the glasses off in all her family pics....I hate her

R332, the local authorities went out within hours, they acted quickly.

Of course the neighbors are devastated. Trying to get away from an abuser is an extremely dangerous time. It can lead to death, as it tragically did here, despite the efforts of caring bystanders, the authorities, etc. Jenn and Sarah left before CPS could come back. They had gotten off lightly in MN, relatively, and skated in OR, they could see the ATMs getting removed and Sarah at minimum with a prison sentence, no suspended sentence or local jail.

For everyone saying to call CPS, it is not that easy. Look what removal in TX led to with these 6, since placement and since the call from the WA neighbor.

There are VERY FEW safe places for kids to go once removed. For those upset by this story, that is one place where YOU CAN make a difference.

The neighbors called the local cps many times, but cps did nothing. So the neighbors reported to the state authorities. Someone told the abusers that the state authorities were coming and they bailed. IF the home schooling org staff and cps social workers did nothing, they would be criminally charged too, as they are mandated reporters.

The neighbors are coming forward publicly to correct the lies and cover up in the local cps investigation, who all said the parents were wonderful. Washington State and California state investigation cannot comment bc it is active, but the neighbors can. The neighbors are working with the state authorities. The state authorities did not place a gag order on the neighbors. They want the correct information out there.

Those selfish twats should have left the kids at home and drove off the cliff together. Devonte had something unique about him. I feel that he would have been in the public eye regardless of his fate.

From r312 they must have been smoking a lot of weed That's classic weed-speak.

Bravo R312,that was superb.

R333, the only ones talking to media, at least that's been taped, is the California Highway Patrol. Oregon and Washington authorities seem to be very media shy. Those kids deserve that authorities face the media in person. It's been a week since the only on camera briefing, by the CHP.

R339, do you have a link? I have watched and read interviews with the neighbors who said that they called for the first time that Friday morning.

[quote]Those selfish twats should have left the kids at home and drove off the cliff together.

They did not any witness to their abuse left behind to tell the true story. My guess.

It seems that their focus is on the 3 unaccounted for kids in worsening conditions re the ocean with a storm coming on Thursday. I imagine that a press conference is less pressing than what was described as an all out effort tomorrow to find bodies.

R339, you refer to State authorities and WA as 2 different things, but they lived in WA. Are you talking about the OR investigation? They seemed to believe that the kids were coached but that they did not have evidence to proceed, see above. Not sure WHICH social workers you are talking about since NONE had visited in WA and there was no homeschooling registered.

They NEVER registered as home schooling in OR or in WA so there was no record or involvement from the school district either place. Please link to sources, thanks.

There were clear records of child abuse in every state they lived. When the neighbors called the local cps, they did not check. They did nothing. The local cps social workers are in trouble. The neighbors had to call the state authorities. Someone told the abusers that the state authorities were taking over the investigation and they bailed.

Also, we know that the neighbors were providing food to the children who were very hungry. The local cps and the home schooling org did nothing.

This song is fucking eerie given his activism to venerate family anihlators and child batters.

It is hard to believe this is not a satire.

Equality? Meanwhile they surround themselves with child abusers. The kids were alarmingly thin at times. An acquaintance in OR reported them. These charlatans are willfully ignorant, probably hoping to make a few bucks on the death of those poor kids.

Seriously, is there a cult that they were all involved in?

What are you talking about? The neighbors called for once and authorities attempted a visit the same day.

In looking on Sarah's FB and Youtube, I did not see one picture of Hannah--one of the missing children, the one who ran to the Dekalbs last May and did not have front teeth--smiling so her teeth show. All the siblings smile for the camera. Whatever happened with her teeth must have happened years ago. Jen favors photos of Abigail, Jeremiah, Sierra, and Devonte, and leaves out the less photogenic Markis and Hannah.

Anyone familiar with these recordings?

Looks like they had the kids in a studio when they were much younger.

I think those 2 were also out of the Thanksgiving singing video. Definitely not as favored.

I think they did the recording with Max Ribner? He rambled about it somewhere.

She was definitely channeling a Joe Jackson vibe and hoping for stardom. Thus the image was the most important thing.

I posted yesterday about a Sonoma rumor that they were going to go throw everything into a huge search today and tomorrow, so at least one part of it panned out. I haven't heard anything else about the second piece of gossip — the search possibly being called off if they don't find anything before the storm hits and potentially washes away items from the car (and bodies, I suppose) that may be stuck in the rocks

Land, sea, and air search-and-rescue crews have come in from all over so hopefully something will be found. I'm back on the Peninsula now and won't be back in Sonoma until the weekend but my partner is still up there so if I hear anything new, I'll post it.

I hate that I'm so obsessed with this story. Now I know what it's like to be a Websleuths Frau.

CPS is a wa state agency--upthread referring to local CPS as different makes fuck all sense

Nahko Bear's mother was a victim of human trafficking, forced into prostitution by his grandmother at age 14. She was raped by a Puerto Rican and he was adopted. Fucked up all around.

Often victims are the biggest champions of abusers, sadly. He needs some therapy and CODA meetings and to step off with his Yoda icon BS.

Seriously you have said numerous times local authorities didn't act --give us the citation or shut ur pie hole

Just in

It's the repetitive CPS troll from last night, r358. Just block it; it's never going to stop.

a fb post made by a co-worker of Sarah's.

News just announced that they believe that the crash of sarah and her family was intentional. I don’t know what happened or why it happened but I will choose not to believe this! The sarah I knew would never do this! I know jen was driving and it kills me to think something happened making her drive off that cliff. I hate that I will never know. As the media keeps releasing more information, more people keep turning their back on you but I won’t be that person. That year we worked together with you as my direct boss was very tough. We butted heads, but in the end we became close. I thank you for all that you taught me and all that you did to help me grow.

I was at your store a few months back with my daughter and you saw us for a second but was on your way into the office with someone and told me to wait. I’m sorry I couldn’t. I told myself I would come back soon and see you but I didn’t. Then next attempt you weren’t there. I didn’t realize how much this loss would affect me but it does! I wish I could talk to you again and get your advice about things. You always supported me in my decisions and always gave me advice. and for that I will always treasure our talks and our friendship! You were my work wife as we called it.

I hope there was no pain for any of you and I hope we find your other 3 babies as well as some answers! I will miss you, and I will always treasure our time at Kohls! RIP TO THE HART FAMILY! Love your former work wife

R353 those poor kids are all tone- deaf but at least I hope they had fun in the studio with well meaning people looking after them. They could not be abused and starved in front of strangers.

is everyone crazy now?

[quote]the Ribner guy who is all over the media defending them, and who called and harassed the neighbors in WA

I missed this about him harassing the neighbors, anyone got a link?

His Instagram makes him sound batshit.

an update from the oregonian

[quote]Jenn looks braless in that pic and I see she left the glasses off in all her family pics

They panicked and took off after CPS came knocking, she didn't have time to get herself gussied up. Her looks certainly went downhill in the last few years.

oh dear r352. As somebody said above, Jen lost it when the kids got older and wiser and they couldn't pimp them out as cute little moppets.

I think she looks almost unrecognizable in the still photo.

cps is a county or city program.

Did Jenn and Sara get their AA fashion style from Super Fly? Check out the leather coat and hat Devonte is wearing when he hugs the police officer.

Not taking care of your looks is another sign of depression for Jen.

this is an updated article about cps. this is information that is different from what cps put out this at first.

To make it clear.

CPS is a local agency. They are now saying they showed up, right away when they were called just recently, but no one was home.

The neighbor is saying that they have called cps before and they did not do anything. They had to contact the state authorities.

CPS first said the Hart adults were amazing parents. They released the first statements and pictures from friends and the home school org.

ok everyone i finally got the hiking video up. it's unlisted on youtube. please don't share. it was private and i dont want to get kicked off youtube.

[R374] what is the significance of this video?

Are they marching in file and not allowed to speak? They is disturbing. They are not talking at all, right?

R375, it was a video posted on Jen Hart's fb page that someone posted to fb that was private. Yes it's an unedited Jen video of the kids not speaking. then suddenly lining up together. Sorry for the shitty quality. that was the way the video was made. it's just to show a glimpse into their "real" life, as opposed to what they wanted us to see.

Here’s a more recent picture. Take note of the focal point as well as the two who are barely noticeable in the background.

there appears to be an issue with Markis' jaw. tooth abscess?

R313, look at this link. It clearly states which states allow a criminal past or not for being homeschooling eligible. Under "criminal ban" when it says "none", it means it's A-OK to have a criminal past. None as in no problem, you can can have a record. Washington state is marked "none".

This point is moot anyway since the Hart children were not registered as being homeschooled. What the hell did they do to pass the hours in that house?! We'll probably never know since the only adults who had contact with them are dead. So, the last pictures of all of them out and about are from before the Democratic Nat'l convention when Sanders was still in?

There are laws and regulations for all home school children. This includes regulations regarding the parents or other tutor(s) that is the home school educator/parent.

R374, the kids were probably instructed that it was a silent meditation hike. It seems controlling to me, and I grew up in a large family with chickens, goats, political demonstrations, country fair, organic food, no television or computers, etc. In some ways quite similar to the “image” being pushed by the Hart mothers, so I find this news story extremely bleak and depressing.

The difference is that in my family we were loud, rambunctious, argumentative and playful kids, and accepted for that. We would have never been silent on a hike (or expected to be). We also were not abused and we were not home-schooled. Some of us had pot-smoking rebellious wilderness years where we hung out and played at life, but as mature adults we have become professors, lawyers, artists etc. and we have long-lasting, happy marriages and families of our own. This news story breaks my heart for the kids but also for the women in a way, the bleakness of it. I cannot conceive of murdering anyone, especially not those I love.

I believe they were at least marginally involved in a quasi-cult, possibly the One-derland hippie cult. There are many of these in the PNW. I always assumed most of these quasi-cults were Breitenbush benign - I like Country Fair vibe myself - but maybe not. It’s so fucking bleak to read about the Harts. The whistleblower who mentioned the potential OD death is right to speak out against something darker poisoning the burner/country fair/new age framing. There has to be a way to take the goodness from the idealism while protecting yourself against inevitable evil people who will try to use, and abuse, others.

Sorry, I meant Onedoorland. I don’t know if they are a cult, but in my opinion they have some cult-like traits, as do many intentional communities.

Does compulsory attendance include being locked inside a house or locked inside a van being driven off a cliff?

Home School is a cult and religious nut job movement.

Home school = Isolation from community leaders like teachers and doctors.

Maybe I'm missing it, but I don't see anything at R380 that contradicts R379 regarding criminal background checks. Searching online, I found a ton of articles and blogs by ex-fundies pushing for background checks and government oversight and just as many by current fundies railing against any type of check, government regulation, or intervention.

There are articles about Pennsylvania's five-year ban post-conviction and an Arkansas joke purporting to bar registered sex offenders from a homeschooler's house (until the homeschooler make a formal request and —poof! — it's waived); articles about a bill in Hawaii that would require criminal-background and child-welfare checks which was just withdrawn, and a similar bill in New Hampshire. But I don't see anything about Oregon or Washington.

You can find story after story about kids who were murdered, tortured, abused, and/or neglected because even when they live in states with rules, there's no penalty for ignoring them, e.g., states with mandatory yearly evaluations; the parents don't bother submitting anything for the year? Oh well, no biggie. No one is going to chase them down or ask any questions. It's a travesty.

The Harts are not alone in pulling their kids completely off the grid and getting away with it. That is the state of homeschooling in the US and there are plenty of people fighting to keep it that way.

R374. Were you having a fucking seizure when you recorded that?

r376, just like Sarah's birthday video you can tell they are prompting the kids, you can see they are waiting for their cue. I have a 12 year old and a child that age is not just going to stand still and gaze at a waterfall for a long time.

R374, that was a creepy video, in context. Those poor, poor children.

R380/381, Onedoorland is something I’d never heard of. It’s very far from my conventional life.

Oh, mine too, R387, and I had a quite Free to Be You and Me upbringing. I also wanted to mention that there were very few photos of us or any “public” profile that blights narcissistic modern parenting and that my parents never smoked weed or were gamers - they were steady, invested parents who had jobs and as mentioned we went to public schools, and Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts, 4-H, sports, etc. So the four of us kids had lots of other outlets too (which probably gave our parents necessary breaks as well — my parents had no illusions that they were perfect and they didn’t try to be.m). I know we are lucky.

Sorry, R388 was from me at R380 / R381.

Now the defend the Hart family crowd is pushing the idea that Devonte had some type of eating disorder quite hard.

What is their investment and behind their aggression? That is what makes me wonder if they were all in some kind of cult together.

The women were unrepentant abusive monsters and their friends are down with it.

How do you square zeal for racial equality with beating, starving and murdering black kids?

How do you square peace and love with punching and waterboarding a first grader for having a penny in her pocket?

This was not a bad day, it went on for YEARS.

I think social media is reinforcing willful denial of reality as an acceptable state of life. Why be so invested in the lives of people you do not really know, the OR crowd had not seen them in person in years. No one seemed to visit their home in WA, they were totally isolated.

The singer guy no doubt plans to star in the film he wants to make about his life. Narcissism as peace and love dude!

The neighbors made ONE call to CPS in WA state.

The 3 visits followed, with no contact made. CPS came within hours.

There was NO registration as homeschoolers in either OR or WA so no involvement of education authorities.

I am no fan of CPS and am far too aware that the next place they would be removed to might have been horrific too. Remember, TX removed all 6 kids.

The above is the responsibility of Jenn and Sarah. No one tipped them off, they literally had no visitors or people to the house, so a knock was nothing good and they did not answer.

There are millions of kids out there who need the lifeline of mentors, tutors, foster parents. Stable people with good support themselves who are not in it for cash or to get access to kids to exploit. Think about if there is a way you can be that lifeline.

Onedoorland

Wonder how much they take in?

The trancy hypnotic music reminded me of Devonte hugging that singer at Beloved. Bet someone is raking it in from the dippy trust fund crowd.

R390, that makes me angry. But, like the KKK incident that never happened, most people don’t believe it.

It is like the prosperity gospel, but for hippies

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----------------- Jenn and Sarah both looked very conventional, they could have worked at Apple. They seemed to link to the hippie crowd through the kids. Odd.

I saw comments at the DM and elsewhere immediately thinking the KKK incident was made up and was about running from CPS. So not everyone is daft, R394. Not one photo are article by Jenn about the KKK, I do not buy that!

The hippie culture in PNW is going so hard for them, why?

@VictorCranium 20h20 hours ago More BrutalAndSavage™ Retweeted Nahko Lol okay Nhako. Xavier’s music brings people to tears 😂 you had me till then. The truth is speeding towards ya like a torpedo. Hold your peace ✌🏾 pedo bear 🐻BrutalAndSavage™ added, Nahko Verified account

@NahkoBear these mothers let the kids dress em how they wanted. ever think that could be a thing? he’s crying cuz he was fuggin moved by @xavierrudd tear jerker music - your evidence is based on data u did not experience. yer making up a story. hug more. judge less. 1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes Reply 1 Retweet Like

Would someone provide a link to the FB accounts.

R391 You wrote a great post and you are clearly a very good hearted person.

But am I the only person here who is starting to feel like I am through the looking glass? We are talking about all the money we need to pour into CPS, DFCS and other such state and federal agencies to keep these tragic children from falling through the many cracks in the system. Well intentioned logic to be sure, but it is liberalism to the extreme(I consider myself a centrist liberal, not someone who is steps away from complete lala land liberalism.)

Why are we pretending that the true issue is not tens of thousands of babies being born to mothers who have no business being a mother, at least at that time? Why do we not throw a shit load of money into bettering the lives of the young women who think nothing of giving birth non-stop for nearly ten years, while having no support for herself or her children? Why do they do that?...that is the problem we really need to solve and put funding into. And please don't tell me that the dearth of readily available abortion is the main issue. Devonte's mom, a crack addict per the initial article about the "cop hugging boy" would not have had an abortion if someone had offered to drive her to the clinic. And sadly that goes for most of the destitute mothers for whom having babies is a lifestyle. Women who are cool with abortions tend not to be the sort whose kids are taken away from them and put into the foster care system. They are women like I am, who regardless of my youth and lack of funds(not to mention the illegality of abortion pre-1972) found a way to get one when it was needed.

So just making abortions readily available is not the panacea which some see. The US has to find a way to get at the problem at the grass root level. Hell, I would rather see the women receive the equivalent of the funds they now get for each child they birth be offered to them if the remain childless instead. It would save a small fortune in the long haul, and those indigent women would have a far better chance at pulling themselves out of the cycle of poverty IF they were not saddled with a gaggle of kids.

If you think about it, changing the rules in this area could possibly even help in the drug situation as well. There might be a bit less need to keep oneself in a constant drug haze if the person wasn't living in a hopeless and miserable state.

R398, just go FB and search. They pop right up for me.

It’s kind of pointless, though. They’re private, so there’s not much to see.

R399 won’t get any argument from me.

But I don’t think there’s a good solution on the horizon. Children are always the lever. If a poor woman gets pregnant, no one wants to see the child suffer, so we give them money. Which incentivizes breeding. But: If we don’t give them money, children suffer.

The only solution I can see is mandatory birth control and that’s obviously problematic.

Just leaving this here:

“4 Responses to Lights, Camera, Action: Portland Cop Hugging Ferguson Protestor Exposed Monica says: July 2, 2017 at 8:14 pm These two women parade these children around and exploit them. I live in Alexandria, MN where they thought it was cute to parade them around town and showed them off. Those kids are under their care for the wrong reasons. Reply Ari says: March 28, 2018 at 6:49 am I know the Hart family and that is not the case… The whole family passed away in a car accident last night and this is a serious loss in our community and the world. I have had blessing to receive a hug on many occasions and WOW…

I love you Monica. Reply”

From the sounds of it, these women were serial abusers. Unlike most situations in which CPS and social workers get involved, the abuse here wasn't incidental to the family dynamic, it was central to it. Like in the Turpin case, it seems that child abuse was the women's modus operandi and a habit (hobby? pastime?) that they had no intention of quitting. The mothers decided it was preferable to flee the jurisdiction of whatever agency/regulator that was looking into them and cover to their tracks so as to continue the abuse, rather than face their lumps with CPS as most normal people do when they've been discovered to have given their daughter a black eye or diddled their son. Social workers are not private investigators or federal agents with unlimited budgets or nationwide reach. From the sounds of it, agencies in each of the three states where this family lived did their best to investigate abuse. However, when the parents are willing to literally pack up their lives and flee the state at a moment's notice, there isn't much social workers or CPS can do. That the abuse continued for as long as it did is not the fault of any agency or state worker, it is the fault of these two women who did all they could to cover up their crimes. The walls finally started to close in on them in Washington, and they decided to Thelma and Louise themselves and take the witnesses with them.

The video at R374 is SO creepy in hindsight.

The Facebook pages should come right up, just search Sara hart - the only thing to see is the likes on her pictures. Jennifer Hart’s page is totally private.

^ correction Sarah Hart. It’s her holding a kitten

Sarah’s photos only have one commenter (aside from Jen): Pte Sapa Win.

This person commented early on in the story, and conceded that we don’t always know everything about people we know.

Ok misinformation CPS troll read the first frequently asked question on this WA STATEwebsite that says CPS is a STATE agency you fuckin loser

Three pictures of the SUV at low tide

So Jen stops at the store to get bananas and a snack like it’s just another day. My guess is she’s bi polar.

That facebook post by Jen mentioned earlier showed a lot of panic

That looks like. Sierra extended cab and not a Yukon which means 6 passengers tops.

I hope this means that the three other kids ARE alive.

Why so much hand wringing about the seat belts? Does it really matter? That crash was not survivable even if they were belted in.

That must have been a manic drive. Was it non-stop driving until the end?

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

R374 No dumbass, i wasn't having a seizure. it was already recorded that way. i just uploaded it.

R417, a Sierra and a Yukon share the same wheelbase. The Sierra is a truck and the Yukon is an suv.

The mothers probably didn't plan to be abusive. What I think happened is they wanted to present a perfect picture of these kids and when the kids didn't act that way they couldn't handle it and went off on them. When I adopted I had to go through so many social worker visits and was warned about attachment disorders and the problems to expect so they should have known what they were getting into.

Would that kind of crash ever be surviveable?

I wouldn't think so. Because of terminal velocity, combined with the rocky surface they landed on, they may as well have been dropped from an airplane.

one of their friends on fb...

This was mentioned above but there's an article about the friend reporting abuse in 2013

Don't bother snarking, but I'm still not fully convinced driving over the cliff was intentional. Kindly hear me out.

The family was known to take regular trips which they referred to as 'exploring' IIRC. This may have been just another weekend jaunt. Indeed, they were headed north toward their home when they died

It may have been coincidental that they left Wash after the CPS visit. The trip may have been already planned. Just waiting for Sarah to get off work for the weekend.

Seeing the CPS card left at their front door may not have had a partcularly threatening effect on them as these women had been playing this game many years. They knew how to handle CPS from their track record No big deal. Another interview Another opportunity to present a faux depiction of daily life

And finally, investigators continue to report that the act of driving off the cliff "may" have been intentional. They don't know any more than we do even with the black box info.

So I'm still waiting for more info to put the pieces of this puzzle together.

I would be interested to learn the contents of the car. Any camping gear, for instance?

Puleaze R425 you're an embarassment.

R426 No I'm a scholar obliged to a rigorous examination of real facts, not speculation.

Tyler Dumont FOX 12 ‏@TylerDumontNews 30m 30 minutes ago More NEW DEVELOPMENT: A cell phone was found at the #HartFamily SUV crash site on Tuesday, authorities confirm. @CHP_HQ investigators are looking into if it belonged to one of the Hart’s. #OnlyOn12

Ohhhhh, a scholar you say. Oh, excuse us.

R420, Sarah majored in Elementary Education at Northern State with a minor in Special Ed. She knew exactly what they were getting into.

So, why was Sarah working in retail and not teaching and caring for the kids?

Because she had a conviction, dumbo.

R429. I can't. I wrote scholar not saint.

[R427] if you read that Washington State posting, it clearly says you have to call the local agency for reporting.

The web page is about when you get your biological children removed from you, which is at the state because it involves a legal case and a judge. It's about the rights of the biological parents in an abuse case, as well.

As soon as these children turned 18 years old they would be cut off and dumped on to the streets. We need to cut of the parents/guardians and social workers who prey on these children. Give these children free health care, education, food benefits for life. Give them the highest level of social security, so they can thrive. Obviously, these children would need therapy and medical care into adulthood. They were already abused by the biological parents, then dumped to these 2 psychos by CPS.

At least one child was 19, R435.

Why does some have all the bad luck? Really feel sorry for those kids. Born into miserable lives and ended tragically.

[R436] And the psychos drove him and the rest of the siblings over a fucking cliff. That was there end game. This is your argument.

They killed one of the kids at 19, so they whole debate about child abuse, social workers and the CPS is over? Somebody on here hates vulnerable children more than those 2 cunts did.

I agree with the majority of the posts on reform and more benefits to the kid themselves.

WHAT the fuck? I said he was 19; the poster had multiple times stated that children are “let go” at 18. I would say here it’s a far better thing to be “let go” at 18 than murdered at 19. I don’t have an opinion on CPS, but someone clearly wasn’t doing their job somewhere, and due to at least one (likely) murderous mother, at least three children are dead.

Jennifer must've been super-controlling and Sarah slavishly under her spell in order for Sarah to be willing to take the fall in the Minnesota child abuse case. Especially since by doing so, she ruined her future prospects in the field she majored in.

[quote] I would be interested to learn the contents of the car.

Dead, mangled bodies and some bananas.

Why do people think Sarah took the fall - has it been reported somewhere?

It's possible Jennifer was the sole adoptive parent, and that's why Sarah took the fall. I've also read the initial intake by police might have been incorrect. Or what R441 wrote.

It may have initially made sense for Sarah to take the fall if Jen was the planned homeschool teacher, who would not be able to have a conviction. Of course something went wrong since they didn't even bother to register them the last 2 states, but maybe initially that was the idea (since Sarah seems to have been the employable one).

the 19 yr old did NOT have any benefits. The program being discussed is a change, an improvement. The social workers and the parents got the money, not the 19 year old. He was stuck, just like the rest of the kids, then murdered.

R441, and could explain her employment at kohls

Aside from their wages, what money did the social workers get, R446?

Not to derail, but just a few minutes ago I was catching up on the Anna Wintour might be out at Vogue thread, and out of nowhere was a long paragraph rant and yet another shorter post on the evils of CPS by non other that our "CPS Hate-Troll" from this thread,

Apparently was in such a lather that she fucked up and posted in the wrong thread TWICE. And you can imagine the reaction from those who had no idea what she was talking about.

quoi?

I have seen teachers protest cuts to education and other programs for kids.

I have seen nurses and doctors protest cuts to health care and other programs for their patients.

I have never seen a protest organized by social workers when they slash programs and benefits to their clients. Think vulnerable children, refugees, elderly, disabled and the homeless.

R443, the child reported that Jen was the one who hurt her, but Sarah is the one who plead guilty and took the deal.

R451, that’s an interesting observation.

Hannah's tooth. If you click on pic you can read her house rules

What's truly bizarre, is how carefully curated and presented their lives were. The Odd Couple appear to have actually spent any support money coming in on the kids: On clothing, on their home, on trips, on entry into hippie jamborees --- it's truly bizarre how they would invest so much in presenting such a specific...brand, yet the children would be hungry. Like they were living in an Oilily catalog. It really was as if they were creating this whole...presentation...for someone else to view. That's why I wondered at first if the kids were hungry because of weird dietary restrictions put on them or because one of the women had an eating disorder, herself and passed it along in her parenting.

They could have easily had these children living in a run down space with thrift store clothes and passed it off as a hippie, waste not want not, lifestyle. But this was specifically a "rich hippie" aesthetic. It's all so weird and it really makes me wonder if this really was some cult thing.

I wish they'd stop using that picture of Devonte crying into the cop on these stories. It's horrible and haunting to think of what that boy was going through and to have people all around him not seeing it. He looks desperate and broken.

Jen explaining how her teeth were knocked out

R454, is that real?

How does the whole root come out as the result of a fall?

Teeth break/crack on impact. They don’t just fall out with the root attached. Do you know how hard dentists work to pull out the entire tooth? I do. My daughter had an eye tooth pulled and it took the dentist quite a while. And it was traumatic, even with nitrous and Novocain.

That poor child.

More denial from friends of Jen

My sister's front tooth came out exactly like that, r458. She tripped going up a mall escalator and fell teeth-first onto the edge of a step knocking out one tooth — root and all — on the spot. No cracks; no breakage. The tooth next to it fell out in one piece on the way to the ER. Because our mother wasn't batshit crazy and acted quickly, both teeth were able to be reimplanted.

R460, really? That’s horrifying. (I have a phobia of losing my teeth...)

I’d always heard that you should keep the tooth in a container of milk (or at least keep the root moist until you can get to the ER. That if you can get them back in, they can reattach (or whatever the term is).

I can totally see those cunts deciding that being toothless for the rest of her childhood was just desserts for running in the house.

It gives me the heebie-jeebies thinking about it again. Luckily, the escalator was right next to the food court and someone ran over with a carton of milk. The root was exposed to air for less than a minute and the one that fell out in the car went into the milk immediately.

You can be sure that if they had accidentally knocked out Devonte's teeth, they would have been fixed ASAP. They needed that big smile and a forced hug to bring in donations to "charity."

R459, that makes me mad. But I don’t have any more insight than those FB people did. Never met them. We can extrapolate a lot from court documents and police statements.

I’m trying to think of the best parents I know, and how I’d feel if these kinds of things came out about them. Probably would say “You never know what goes on behind closed doors”.

You kind of DO know what goes on behind closed doors but I get the impression lots of people are cowardly sheep about it. It reminds me of that famous psychology/sociology 101 lesson about Kitty Genovese.

I still don't get where these high figures are coming from. None of the links give figures. I just happen to know what SSDI is in DC cause I've seen it myself. I'm not sure everyone on SSDI gets the same check.

Disabled children don't get cut off at 18 - if they are disabled they continue to get SSDI. Also some states have programs that ease foster children into independent living apartments. But these kids were adopted. They weren't foster children. So, yes, at some point assistance from some programs would end.

Getting free medical and dental isn't the same as getting cash - it's not like those benefits can be converted into cash for the parents.

Their cell phone pinged at or near Newport, Oregon at 8:05 am Mar 24, Saturday. Newport is about three and a half hours from Woodland Washington.

Someone or two keeps harping on about how no one with a criminal record can be a home schooler - maybe in some states. I cannot imagine how that would work - many people have criminal records, minor or not. I can't even see a justification for any state keeping a parent from homeschooling their own child because they have a criminal record. What's the nexus there? It's ridiculous and I'm someone who doesn't even approve of homeschooling.

HELLO, these kids were abused and taken away from the biological parents. These 2 fucking cunts were the 2 approved by CPS and now they are dead. They obviously needed life long access to top quality health care and therapy because of what already happened to them. Also, CPS had no problems with these 2 psychos ripping them out of school. BTW, the teachers reported the cps and the new freaks.

The CPS, the home schooling cunts the the parents and guardians need to be cut off. The kids are the victims and need the benefits, not the cps. Let's give the kids (foster/adopted) these benefits for life.

R465, maybe a record of abusing a child should preempt a parent from homeschooling that same child, particularly when the abuse was only escalated to CPS when reported by the child to a teacher. At a school. It would be like your local Walgreens putting a convicted drug dealer in charge of the Sudafed cabinet with nary a threat of oversight or audit.

There's a registry for sexual abuse of children (and adults for that matter), so why not physical abuse as well? Which makes me wonder, how do parents know whether they are hiring a child-beater to babysit their kids? I don't intend to ever have kids, but I feel like I would make my hypothetical babysitters agree to undergo a Kroll background check.

I do not think Sarah could have worked with kids after a criminal conviction for assaulting one. But it is interesting that she was not the one home schooling and that she was not teaching at any point.

I think that they were both abusive based on things that they said to people.

She could have gotten out of a murder-suicide situation if Jenn had pressured her to take that charge. She functioned in the world more if she worked in a store. I wonder if she consented to the suicide or murder-suicide.

What is the goal of cps to make the kids miserable for their entire lives? What is wrong with the idea of providing more benefits directly to foster and adopted kids?

If these kids had social security benefits to them, maybe they could have a cell phone and call their pediatrician or hospital for an ambulance directly. Maybe they could have been not only alive, but able to have a frozen yogurt and pizza at the mall with friends, see a movie. Why is cps so against this? You know, children being ALIVE (not dead) and happy, doing the thing kids do.

The more the internet trolls keep posting, the more they sound educated about the problems with the cps program and the lack of benefits for these kids.

The cps did nothing for these kids, except make sure their new guardians were fucking lunatics. They did not even give them food, the neighbor gave them food.

I think we should turn over the function of cps over to the:

AMA pediatrics

APHA children experts

APsychologicalA, children trauma experts.

Let them develop a better program. Let's GUT the paid jobs of these social workers, and give more benefits to the kids too.

{R454] Wow, Read bwtn the lines here.: How dare you get hurt, need a doctor and to be nurtured ! They were sociopaths, they were not mothers. Or they just beat the shit out of the girl and wanted cover for there home schooling cult and cps.

Brilliant...

[quote]...and they certainly DO NOT deserve this. Support them, [bold]even if things don't add up, trust them.[/bold] Don't waste your hate. Love you @NahkoBear #defendtheharts

investigation turns on CPS.

The kids were featured in this music video. Their bare arms are so thin. Jenn must have LOVED the attention to the brand.

You can see the bones in their chests. It is like the Terpins. Absolute evil. Look at the little one on the left, absolutely skeletal.

Yet dressing them up, trotting them around for attention, hiding in plain sight.

I'm European and these kids don't look unusually thin. Are you quite sure you Americans haven't become accustomed to little fatties?

The little girl on the left, you can see all the bones in her chest. That is not normal in Europe either.

R478, You’re accustomed to seeing ribs poking out of the collars of shirts, like the ones in r477’s photo?

Where in Europe are you from? Treblinka? Dachau?

This adoring fan is all love and light, so it's a bit jarring when she takes a sudden turn to decapitation in the second video.

Man, I knew some asshole was going to come in here and make a “fat American” comment.

A body may have been spotted in the water some distance from where the car went off the cliff. There was a MASSIVE search effort today.

If 3 were left at a campsite or dumped in the words like Hansel & Gretel, the weather is about to get quite bad in CA. Hopefully additional video has given LE info as to how many kids were with Jenn.

Absolutely heartbreaking. Such arrogance, a child abuse conviction, yet they openly starve the children and flaunt it in public. And the hippie crowd venerates them still?

Quoting the sheriff: „I‘m to the point where I‘m no longer calling this an accident. I‘m calling this a crime.“

but the 2 abusers are dead too.

Emaciated.

R481, That is frightening.

Slasher flicks don’t scare me, but thinking about freaks like her makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up.

How do you have 6 kids and NONE of them have any friends?

R488, ask Angelina Jolie.

None of the Hart defenders mentions any other child except Devonte. How fucked up is that?

Even when the kids were in school, they didn’t have friends the way children normally do. “Scott Heckert, the principal of Woodland at the time, recalled the Harts as an insular family whose children despite being amiable and outgoing among their peers rarely spent time with others outside the classroom.

"They stayed under the radar and liked to be alone and away from other people," Heckert said of Jennifer and Sarah, adding the children received extra attention from teachers and faculty after the abuse allegations.”

This photo is uncomfortable.

Jenn and Sarah are in the video at R476, too

Dude, she is a family annihilator! Her ACTIONS changed everything.

-----------------------------

Zan Robbins Zan Robbins Posts like these are one of the reasons I was absolutely floored to see what the reports were “reporting”... There were so many posts frOM Jen that included both positive and negative interactions with society (like when Devonte was doing his yearly birthday cOMMitment to give free hugs and gather donations for one of his ‘favorite’ charities and sOMeone approached him with hatred and called him a ni**er) and yet it seemed to me she&they always strived to find the light and good on the world- and to MAKE MORE light and good..! No one is perfect. No one has broken the code to the perfect life. No way to even know what perfection is. So why then does society hold people to such high standards of perfectionism? This family was one of the most inspiring families I have ever interacted with and no one and no words will change that. Ever.

look at Devonte's stomach, so sad, that's either a hernia or starvation, or both

It’s also distended at R477.

How could no one do ANYTHING? Surely the hippy dippy crowd has eyes. This is horrific. They could NOT have been receiving medical care.

The Terpin case must have really kicked up the anxieties of Jenn and Sarah. Jenn is quite chubby in the Safeway snap but look at the state of another one of the kids. How could you do this to another human?

New article and video from CNN

If scroll down through the photos here , you can see one where they are on the stage with Bernie Sanders.

to the right of Bernie

.............

They all lo0k fat to me.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

R501 what took you so long? I was going to impersonate you, but it didn’t seem right.

r459 he implies the neighbors who reported them had it out for them but then the idiot says:

"You were closer to them, so you're in a better position to speak to what they were really like. I knew Jen a bit from back in Huron, and followed their adventures on FB, but I never got to meet Sarah or the kids."

So basically he didn't even know the Harts.

r492 I would put money on it that nobody even called him the N word, more lying like the KKK stuff to make them look like they were triumphing over their (fake) oppression.

I posted Jen's imaginary checkout encounter in the original thread but I forget to quote the part about Devonte's background, which sounds like another of Jen's fever dreams. In any case, fact or fantasy, how shitty is it that she spewed this all over the internet and publicly and permanently saddled a kid who couldn't consent with a backstory like this?

*********

Devonte Hart entered the world 12 years ago with drugs pumping through his tiny newborn body.

By the time he was 4 years old he had smoked, consumed alcohol, handled guns, been shot at, and suffered severe abuse and neglect.

He knew only a handful of words, including fuck and shit, and he struggled to identify with the names of food, body parts and every day objects. Devonte was a violent toddler and his health was weighed down by a heavy list of disabilities.

It was a life with little hope and a future that seemed over before it began.

That is until Jen Hart and her wife Sarah entered Devonte’s life and adopted him and his two siblings seven years ago.

I wonder what happened to the cash received when they made poor Devonte beg for charitable donations with a sign on multiple birthdays. And yes Devonte was scared of police and it was sadistic to make him hug the cop. Just read the 506 post, Jen sounds like a narcissist; God please let the 3 unaccounted for kids be safe!

Devonte would've been better off with anyone other the those cunts

I find it interesting that they were in Newport OR (coastal town) this is the long way to Mendocino but may avoid the huge agricultural check on I-5 right into CA from OR if they wanted to avoid that. or they were waiting for the kids to fall asleep before cliff diving or they couldn't find a good spot north of Mendocino

Were the Bernie pictures the last pictures of them, date wise? (I have no Facebook to check on any other public pics). Didn't the tribe withdraw from public view after the election? Besides their other 'troubles'. Must've been a blow to them, him losing the nomination and Trump winning. And no, I'm not trying to bring 45 into this, just musing. I'm sure those Bernie t-shirts were paid for from the kids' allowance. For sure, the rest of the time, the kids were dressed in Kohl's clothes courtesy of Sarah's discount so taking $$ from their monthly stipend to travel and campaign for Bernie is a family expense. Uh huh, sure //rolls eyes//. That completes 3 credits in their political science course. We NEED better oversight in homeschooling and making sure families dropping out PROVE they're registered even if they move out of state.

I really miss Ann Rule. She would have done a great job writing about this case.

Eight pinwheels and solar lights rather than six; obviously left by someone who drank the Hartberry Punch Kool-Aid.

I don't understand why people leave stuff like that, like when Princess Di died people left all those flowers and stuffed animals, it just seems a waste.

The Hart kids (when younger) are pictured on Max Ribner's Kickstarter page with the title "Youth Music Empowerment."

In the Max Ribner Kickstarter Page under Special Thanks, he thanks the Hart Tribe & Hart Visions Photography

I didn't realize someone else posted the Ribner Kickstarter earlier.

R468

it could be that Sara was the only one who could hold down a job. Jenn may have bi-polar and perhaps she couldn't get a job or keep a job.

I read in one article that Sara had some sort of accreditation for teaching Special Needs kids in MN. If one was needed in WA or OR to supervise the homeschooling, she may have been qualified to do it.

I wonder whether the places they chose to move to depended on whether Sara could transfer her job to be the mgr at the Kohl's store in that area. How far did Sara have to drive to get to work each day in their last home?

In Jenn's FB post, didn't she mention losing a home along w/ the 5 dead animals, etc? Were they evicted from a rental?

How did they qualify to buy the house they were living in which was around $385,000?

I'm hoping that the 3 missing kids ran off into the woods w/ the dogs. They knew the dogs would follow them and give away their location.

R498

Photo #15 shows a caption that names the kids. You can see Hannah(next to Devonte) is missing her front teeth. Pictured far camera left is Sierra. She is one of the 3 missing Hart kids along w/ Hannah and Devonte.

R507, there’s a FB entry by a Winona LaDuke that shows her with Devonte and Nahko. He had given her $490 of his birthday bounty for some land project.

I can’t imagine there weren’t some things he would have wanted, instead.

R516, your question about Sarah’s drive was a good one!

When they lived in West Linn, it was a 25-minute drive to Wood Village, OR. When they lived in Woodland, WA, it was a 44-minute drive to Wood Village.

For some reason, I assumed they had moved very far away from friends. Another 20 minutes further isn’t that far, IMO. Their isolation makes even less sense. They could have kept seeing their friends and family.

We would all like to think we would have been the one to notice something but the truth is, the couple are pretty normal looking and had created a well-crafted alternate reality outside of their home.

With all the new fad diets people try today, with stories of parents going to court for their newborns starving to death on strict, vegan diets, would these children have really looked that unusual hanging around a crowd of vegans, vegetarians or anti-gluten, anti-sugar, anti-diary eating people (or considering this hippie crowd, Fruitarians)? They were clean, well dressed and trained to smile and perform on cue, so they may have seemed happy and well adjusted to a crowd of people casually interacting with the family only at events, including many in these crowds who probably had their senses possibly a little compromised by chemical "supplements", if you know what I mean.

We'd all like to believe we would have been the ones to notice, we would have figured this out but would we? I would have been concerned about a possible tyrannical, Type A personality who was like an activism stage parent, pushing these children to perform to gain activism fame but other than that, they just seem like every, other suburban hippy "modern family".

Oh that's a bunch of piddle. Any teacher, nurse or doctor amongst them in public would immediately know the score.

Isn't this the third mass murder by a Bernie supporter since the election?

R522 Don't bring that shit in here.

So the latest is a wet cell phone found near the crash site and a possible clothed body spotted in the ocean 40 miles south

PPeople are totally fine blaming their sexuality and gender and spiritual beliefs, so the cult-like political framing of magical thinking is indeed relevant.

Supporting Bernie Sanders is no more or less a cult than supporting Hillary or Trump.

There is a door on the cliff separate from the vehicle. Does that mean that someone tried to open it ?

[quote] Supporting Bernie Sanders is no more or less a cult than supporting Trump.

FTFY.

Bernie was and is a cult.

R529 So many people want the same things but just disagree on how to get them. I thought Bernie was Pie-in-the-sky but people wanting world peace is, obviously, not a bad thing.

It's those who exploit that instinct for the wrong ends we have to focus our laser beams on.

R521 If people can be trained to look for certain signs, abusers can adapt to that training and basically, "mutate" their behavior. They can tailor their behavior to mask those signs.

I wouldn't want to be any of the people who were in these children's' lives and would have been classified as "mandatory reporters" right now but you can't assume everyone they encountered as a family would know what warning signs to look for. Especially in "free love, peace, love and understanding!" circles. As we can see from the family's friends posting afterward, many seemed to be in denial.

The irony is that I do not think Bernie himself is a cult leader, more the creeps who have formed themselves around them. Nomiki, Dore, Sarandon, and those are just famous ones. The pie-in-the-sky magical thinking would of course appeal more to New Age types than far-left pragmatists like myself who really were turned off him after the NYDN interview, where it was revealed that the emperor wore no clothes.

So I think it is relevant to this discussion of New Age cult sensibilities. I think tragically of Jonestown (also left wing, racial equality [well, Bernie Sanders doesn't push THAT, anyway] , etc.).

R521 My point also being, how many of those human services figures were as confident in their ability to spot at risk children before this happened, as you feel now?

The situation, R533, is that the cunts isolated their children and trained them to hide. Then circulated them in bat shit crazy "communities". The point of "denial" is that you know something but repress it. Neighbours figured it out but the state didn't have the authority to do enough, fast enough, radically enough, and the cunts kept bolting. I am quite convinced any teacher, nurse or doctor would have figured this out quickly enough and been less inclined to deny what they see. Whether they would act or not, that's the question. Bravo to the neighbours who did report this shit going down. The 1st visit from a neighbour kid who asks me for food and reports being starved, I would be asking questions. The 2nd visit I would be calling the cops.

Yeah Bernie actually has all the hallmarks of a cult leader.

He is ultra-critical of society as it is, which isn’t hard, of course, because virtually every culture can be criticized for inequity or inefficiency or discrimination or corruption or any combination of those ills.

He says he’ll be able to cure those ills but has never been in an executive position to know what it’s really like. Instead he puts himself in charge of a group of people who simply put their faith in his ability to achieve these aims — because he says so.

There’s very much an us and them mentality, the “woke”lings looking at people who don’t follow Bernie as asleep or sheep.

So we can say without fear of contradiction that Trump is president thanks to the efforts of a cult.

I’m less surprised by how terribly thin the kids are than by how much younger they seem, compared to their bio ages. Devonte looks like he is 8 or 9 and acts (or is most likely forced to act) like he’s that old too. Reminds me of Gypsy Rose Blancharde.

R527, it’s possible that someone tried to open the door and get out before the car hit the rocks (how awful to even contemplate). But my non-scientific guess is that anything and everything flew apart during impact.

R527 The door could have come off if the SUV hit the cliff going down. The CHP said that it didn't hit the cliff, but then they have backtracked on other things, so who knows?

I wonder if the kids received SNAP. I would think that they did, so there should have been food money for them. The vegetable planting boxes in their yard look well made. What a horrible thing to starve your kids.

It seems like the former owners of the house and the movers who moved their stuff in the house would be sought out by the press for comments.

Chronic starvation would keep them looking younger, like the Terpins. So many of the photos were from 2012-2014, very few after.

Jenn in her self pitying screed referred to rebuilding their lives and kept repeating time and trust. Did she and Sarah have trouble in paradise?

The Hart family shopping list.

Oh dear.

this won't be popular but hose kids are all better off now than they would have been if they had lived. The spent their short lives in misery and would have carried it with them thru their lives. Some may have ended up in trouble, some not.

By the time they were adults if any of them had committed some awful crime everyone would be up in arms about how they should get the death penalty. Many, many of the people in our society who have committed crimes lived awful lives like this or worse as children but when they become adults no one really cares. People expect some kind of miracle when they become adults and think they should be able to leave all this crap behind them and live normal lives.

we feel sorry for them when they are children but when they become adults our sympathy dissipates and we consider them to be a plague on society. They are finally at peace where No one can hurt them.

R540 protein deficiency to keep them weak and complaint? Jenn was chubby, Sarah slightly less so, so they were eating more than collard greens and fruit.

R541, that sentiment floated around my brain. Out of the frying pan into the fire.

That is the thing. People call CPS because there is not any other option but it does not mean your life gets better. Foster care and group homes are no picnic either, just pools of kids to be exploited in far too many cases. Control and narcissism run amok here, in other cases the kids are just an income stream. If someone in your extended family is struggling, see if you can reach out to help. Take a child for a summer or more. Obv, someone like Jenn would not allow it but other overwhelmed parents might.

Those poor kids, I cannot even fathom their final minutes.

Gosh I’m adding a Pacific Coast Highway road trip to my bucket list. I’m from the east coast and the scenery here pales in comparison to the Hart crime scene. What are the must-see towns in northern CA?

When is that big storm expected to hit?

Should we start a part 3 to this topic?

I want to believe the missing 3 somehow escaped.

R545, I thought of a trip on the PCH. After researching it, I decided to forget it. Dense fogs at times, rock slides, questions as to the lack of rails. I have read that it is called a haunted road because of all the accidents on it.

What was the weather the night or day of the incident? Anyone know? Was it very foggy? Rainy?

R545, my husband and I did that almost 20 years ago. My husband is a very good driver and it was nerve-wracking to drive down some of those stretches.

Driving through the desert was pretty scary, too.

R547, I think we can use a Part 3!

You'd have to be fucking brain dead at this point to not be suspicious...

R545 R548

I was born and raised in the SF Bay Area and then went to college in LA and stayed there.

A friend and I decided to drive up from SF to Mendocino on PCH and never made it. PCH became so harrowing at one point, like we were driving up a 90% angle without turnouts or guard rails, straight into the sun so you couldn't see anything but glare through the windshield.

I didn't want to risk our lives, so we turned around. I wish we had taken the Skunk Train up there instead.

There are other parts of PCH that are scary, mostly around Big Sur. That's where big rocks fall and the road can collapse. Last year, it did just that and people were isolated and had to take huge detours. Big Sur was cut off. Anything south of that is ok as I remember.

The most dangerous fog is actually the Tule fog that covers the bottom of the Grapevine (Interstate 5). It billows up very quickly and you can't see a thing I had to drive that route back home to my parents' house many times. During Tule fog, the CHP (CA Hwy patrol) roll their windows down to listen for the car crashes in order to find them.

If you want to see the coast, you can take the train from SF to LA but it is a very long trip. I think more than 11 hrs.

Some people drive PCH and then cut over to Hwy 101 or Interstate 5 at some point. 101 and 5 are not scenic drives.

The 17 yr. old Turpin girl, who escaped and called the cops, had videos on youtube where she was singing inside the house of horrors.

I wonder if Devonte or one of his siblings had access to a hidden smartphone where they could access the internet.

The Beloved Festival w/ the shirtless drummer seems pretty creepy. The audience looked like old white hippies except for the Hart kids.

I haven't read any reports of drones searching the coast or helicopters w/ infrared/heat-seeking cameras searching the area around the Hart house.

Even calling the kids names or the dogs names through a helicopter loudspeaker in the woods around the house is something that should be done.

For those DLers who deal w/ neglected kids and those born to junkies, is RAD a given even if the baby is adopted as an infant? I'm thinking of the Parkland Shooter Cruz who was adopted as a baby. Even though his adopted parents seem to love him and his brother (same mother), he had many emotional and psychological problems leading to mass murder.

"Reactive attachment disorder (RAD) is a condition found in children who may have received grossly negligent care and do not form a healthy emotional attachment with their primary caregivers -- usually their mothers -- before age 5." (See WebMD link below).

People seem to know about the Russian orphans turning out to have severe psychological problems, but I thought babies of junkies mostly had learning disabilities. Before the Harts, I hadn't heard of RAD although I know about the issue of food insecurity,

The ultimate irony with the Hart family is that the most mentally-impaired family members were the 2 moms and not the kids.

Article about RAD on WebMD...

The Mendocino County Sheriff's office on Thursday said that, [bold]contrary to numerous previous statements, neither Jennifer Hart, who was driving the SUV, nor Sarah Hart was wearing a seatbelt[/bold] when the vehicle crashed off the California coast last month.

Investigators have said since soon after the crash that both women were buckled in but the children weren't when the car went over the 100-foot cliff.

"Information released ... by the Mendocino County Sheriff's Office incorrectly stated that Jennifer Hart and Sarah Hart were wearing a seat-belt during the incident," the sheriff's office said in a news release. "Investigators from the California Highway Patrol ... determined Jennifer Hart and Sarah Hart were not wearing seat-belts during the incident."

Now the women weren't belted.

R540

raps?

pink ladies?

colored greens?

duck tape!!!!!!!!

If their car is a relatively newer model, wouldn't there be a constant and annoying beep if they took off their belts?

Obviously the portal to Onedoorland R527.

The car is a 2003 model R561

God, what a horrific way to kill yourself. Pretty efficient though if you're trying to take out your whole family with you, I suppose.

I took the Starlight train from LA to Seattle in the 90s and I would highly recommend it to anyone who can afford to get the sleeping compartment. The scenery is spectacular nearly the entire way, and it is not just the same stuff over and over. It changes every few hours/

I was a flight attendant for 30 years, and I've pretty much been everywhere, but this is one of my all time favorite trips.

After Thelma and Louise You kind of have to wonder....these wackado Narcissists, or now Family Annihilators would find it appealing.

Accident/Intentional Both women belted/neither woman belted Jen was driving/we don’t know who was driving All kids were in the car/three were in the car Alcohol or drugs were not involved/toxicology report in 60 days

GET YOUR STORY STRAIGHT

R510 I have been thinking about Ann Rule since this whole thing began. She would have been utterly perfect getting to the nitty gritty of this. I miss her so much.

1. Re the shopping list - who wrote it? - kids or adults ? (toilet paper is not spelled properly)

2. It does look new age "healthy" which could partially explain the growing kids' hunger, if they didn't outright starve them.

3. What are "pink ladies"? I know there is a drink called, that and apparently MDMA/ strong ecstasy is called that. Anything else?

My favorite thing on the list was "zookeyney."

(Pink Ladies are also a type of apple.) R569

Ok, thanks, R571. I guess that was it.

I went back to look at the list but it is gone now. Who would have removed it?

"colored greens" which were denied to the black children.

Nothing is funnier than white people talking smack about white people.

a grocery trip for a family of 8 i can imagine if you're feeding the kids properly should be a couple of hundred dollars at least, i guess it depends on if you are shopping weekly or monthly. if i had 6 kids i'd have a membership to costco

I spend 200 a week on groceries for me, my husband and my 16 year old son. None of us are overweight. It costs money to buy healthy food.

With that amount of land, even if it is not arable they could build raised garden beds and a greenhouse, there’s no reason why they could not grow much of their own veg, especially with 6 able bodied teens. Lots more fowl for eggs for protein and you’re laughing.

The thing is, fat mama Jenn kept them indoors and starving while she holed up playing on the computer like some weirdo in the basement.

They lived in the house 10 months. I guess it would take some time to establish a healthy garden and to live sustainable, if they were into canning and preserving that would take time. i'm sure they frowned upon commercial grocery stores i have a raised garden and used to grow a lot until the ants moved in.

She only looks a little fat in her last photo on the run and it is still not as fat as most Americans.

a post from a family that went to the school with the Hart children in MN, talking about Jen's lies

but she doesn't really say anything about lies

its sounds websleuthish with no information

R581 sorry to disappoint you, i didn't write it. feel free to add your own info

“Colored greens” are probably bags of pre-mixed greens (salad mix). Costco sells a bunch of different salad mixes and some have multicolored stuff like purple cabbage or colored romaine. Pink ladies are a brand of apples. I think they sell them at Costco and other markets.

About the diet, there’s no cheese, milk, eggs, tofu or peanut butter. Those poor kids must have been starving for protein. Their growing bones and teeth must have been starved for calcium and were probably fragile.

I had a 2005 Ford SUV and it did beep every couple of minutes if your seatbelt wasn’t on. It beeped continuously if the doors or back hatch weren’t firmly shut. There’s a sensor that knows if the front passenger seat is empty, and shuts off the airbag if there’s no weight there. My particular SUV was a Ford Escape and had front and side airbags in front. I think the side airbags may have been an option though. I’m sure airbags would deploy if you drove off a cliff. Could be why the bodies were still in the front seat even without seatbelts. I don’t know what happened if there’s were unbelted people in the back because I never never carried any. But I’m pretty sure you could fool the mechanism by latching the seatbelts behind you.

Possibly collard greens, misspelled?

R575 my sister, her husband and three kids spend around $250 a week on groceries. They eat healthy meals. She says that $250 is not all because they usually need to top up on something like milk, bread, toilet paper. She buys no junk food because why waste money on things that unnecessary. If these two adopt 6 kids they needed to accept that their groceries would add up to at least $350. But I dont think they were starving them for financial reasons. It was for control and the pleasure of cruelty.

I doubt that that is a a full list of a week's or month's groceries. Don't you pick up a few items while passing a store etc.?

R584, I think there’s actually a brand of mixed salad greens at Costco that has a description on the bag with something like “colored greens.” Next time I go to Costco I’ll look. If they were going to Costco, there’s a lot of organic and vegetarian food there the kids could eat like yogurt, cheese, avocados and black beans. Eggs and tortillas and bread are extremely cheap there. And for kids eating a vegan diet, olive oil would be a must.

Thinking about it, if the door was torn off the vehicle, the “door ajar” alarm would have beeped constantly until the battery went dead, assuming the key was still in the ignition. I wonder if someone might have heard it, or the horn blaring, when they stopped to look at the view. Just another macabre detail.

Yes r586, unless 6 of you are barely being fed

Dear Giddabush in Dreamtime!

To the poster who mentioned Ann Rule. I spoke to her about a year before her death while I was working. She called my place of employment, and I realized it was The Ann Rule from Seattle, Washington. Very sweet, and very surprised, I knew who she was and had read her from the beginning of her career. We had a chance to talk about some of her books.

You're right this would have been right up her alley.

Jen was obviously a 'UGE fan of chocolate cream pie. She mentioned the kids eating chocolate cream pie for breakfast in one of her Facebook droppings and here we have Devonte and Jeremiah posing with one.

The second that the shutter clicked she grabbed the pie and fork, whipped cream still on it, out of Jeremiah's hand before he could get it into his mouth and, grunting "om nom nom nom," trundled back to her tent and inhaled the entire pie. Later, at the climax of that evening's marathon drum circle, Jen dramatically regurgitated the intact aluminum pie plate to the rapturous applause of her starving children.

All I can think of is the chocolate pie scene from [italic]The Help.[/italic] Poor li'l Delmonte.

They did have raised beds R55. Voila:

Chicken and waffles in the upper left picture at r589

r529 that's actually cute

r536 that's a good comparison. And to the person talking about Bernie Sanders being a cult leader, take that shit elsewhere.

r540 "content not found" what was it?

interestingly the one ranting about Bernie also appears to be the "pedos, pedos everywhere" troll.

They found Del Monte yet?

R597, it was a photo of the Hart family’s grocery shopping list. Badly misspelled because homeschooling is better than public school.

It was slightly heartbreaking.

R577

They did build raised vegetable boxes. They are in one of the photos in a group of photos of the house.

Someone start a new thread

The Mendocino Sheriff's office just issued a new "endangered - missing - at risk" poster and an update on the big multi-agency search (nothing found).

Searches are called off until the weather clears next week.