How good is "Evita"?

I think a lot of the succession Evita was debtor hal princes staging. Take that away and it gets a little dull.

Op just wants to talk about how good patti lupone is. She's not. Madonna sang it best. The show is boring. Close the thread.

"Shut UP Patti Lu Pone!"

I saw a show years ago and the production I saw was not good, imo. Maybe if I saw the original that was on Broadway?

Most of the songs are lackluster.

I saw two regional productions while I was still in high school. (This was in the late '00s.) The first was mediocre at best—and I didn't get why the show had been such a hit. The second (which I saw because a friend was in it) was phenomenal—and I later learned that was because they used Hal Prince's original staging (which I'm pretty sure is illegal?).

Anyway, all that is to say that I think R1 has it right. Just as one example—"The Art of the Possible" would be a pretty boring song in most director's hands. The rocking chair conceit made it dramatic in a chilling way.

Honestly? I think it is fabulous. I loved the original production with patti of course, but i liked the Madonna movie version too.

[quote]Madonna sang it best.

Oh my sides!!! I suppose you think Banderas's talking was better than Patinkin, too, right?

The show has a lot of excellent musical numbers and LuPone and Patinkin sang the hell out of it.

It's an iconic Broadway show--brilliantly staged by Hal Prince and introducing both Patti LuPone and Mandy Patinkin to a wide audience. I think it's a great score, but then again I grew up on it : )

LuPone made it legendary. She and Patinkin were perfect, young scared of it but made it work. Patti sang and pefromed it like nobody else ever since.

R8 yea i do. At least Antonio was more authentic. You eldergays crack me up. So devoted to your nostalgia. Mandy sucks. Patti sucks. No one today wants to hear them. Yes, Madonna sang it best. And there's nothing you can do to change my mind or millions of others.

R11, Antonio Banderas can't carry a tune in a bucket. You have no taste.

R11 Did you see the reaction to Patti’s Grammy peformance? Madonna surely didn’t reach any of the high notes written to the original score. Patti forced herself through them but Madonna couldn’t even try them in the studio.

I has done gazed up from the square to the balcony @ La Casa Rosada in BA.

I'm great.

Some of you are nuts.

I am not big on musical theater at all, and absolutely despise mose ALW stuff, but actually really enjoyed Evita. I find most of the songs to be catchy and enjoyable. You can't say that about most of his other works. Phantom? Blech. Cats? Double blech.

I think it is less popular now because audiences have become accustomed to the complete dumbing down of theater. They want to see stuff based on Disney movies like the Lion King, big effects like the helicopters in Miss Saigon, etc.. It is all style and no substance.

troof, R15

I’ve never understood the appeal of Evita. Patti can screlt rage fuck out of anything, but short of that, I think the show is supremely boring and the songs banal.

I saw the original production twice - was in high school. Even the songs that come across as meh on the album were elevated by the staging / direction / design. It was a really amazing theatrical experience & Patti & Mandy both gave incredible performances - it’s probably Lloyd Weber’s best overall work - but I tend not to like his stuff overall

Ultimately it is of its era, and a legendary live performance is hard to categorize decades after the fact. But I remember her entrance for Don’t Cry For Me Argentina” like it was yesterday. It’s pure theater at its most basic - a black set, a catwalk, a spotlight & a dress - and the performer who sells the moment and makes it larger than life - with some help from the orchestra - but still it’s the raw talent of the performer that makes it magical.

When I saw Groff make his first entrance as King George in Hamilton I equated them immediately - just a great costume and a spotlight coupled with tons of acting talent.

Not a showtunes queen but Evita is one of the few I'll go to (and the only Andrew Lloyd Webber one I can stand). Thought Madonna did all right in the movie, but Banderas was ATROCIOUS. Saw it live a few years ago on a touring show and it was also good.

Also agree with R15 that everything is getting dumbed down to kiddie level these days. How long until the comic book musicals become a thing? At least the jukebox ones can have good music (Mamma Mia is stupid as hell but fun to sing along to.)

The original Evita was a masterful combination of staging, lighting, performance, and pacing. A friend who saw it remarked, “You know, if there had been a book in between all those numbers, this show would have been a flop.”

Because it was, in effect, a staged concert, it swept the audience right along with it. The movie, which I actually liked, did roughly the same thing, but with tightly edited visuals during many of the songs.

Both, however, lose momentum after Peron’s election, as the action literally goes downhill. And the end of each just peters out. (Similar, in fact, to the end of Jesus Christ Superstar, which just more or less stops.)

The obc Evita is remembered more for that propulsive thrill in the staging and performance. (Interesting, that, only a few years before, in 1975, Patinkin looked like a slob and really acted badly, in the Broadway play, The Shadow Box. In Evita, he was a revelation: trim, sexy, a great singer, and he moved like a panther.)

R13 no one cares. Lupone blows chunks. Bad face. Bad voice. Bad bod. Bad attitude. Really bad actress. I'll give you that mandy was sexy back then but that singing voice sounds like someone murdering a cat. Gives me chills. Ugh.

"Madonna sang it best."

Patti LuPone WAS Evita. By comparison, Madonna was Velveeta.

^^^WRONG

I enjoyed both stage and film. Both very good. What the fuck are people arguing about? Are people just depressed by Drumph?

Patti was good, but her understudies were supposedly just as good.

One of them, Florence Stanley, went on to a number of TV shows in the 1980's.

Never saw the play. However did see Madonna play Evita Peron and not too shabby.

I'm going to change my name to Velveeta Pirogi now because of you, r22.

The original Bway production was electric. LuPone was stunning, hurling high notes into the theatre. Mandy Patinkin was every bit her equal. The Hal Prince staging kept the drama crackling.

Like most ALW shows, however, the revivals display their inherent weaknesses. The revival with Ricky Martin was just shit. The woman playing Evita has a nasally little voice. The sets were shit. Ricky's accent went in and out and, oddly, he didn't have any magnetism.

The show needs an Evita with a volcanic voice and a director with imagination. The show just doesn't stand on its own.

R28 is right. It was thrilling as a spectacle, which it was. And the songs are great. But in the end WHO CARES ABOUT ANYONE in that show??

Same with godawful Hamilton: all surface spectacle and whiplash choreograph but WITHOUT the great songs (except for 2).

It's not even a show. It was an LP that Hal Prince tarted up. The writing is hack work done by hacks. Tim Rice and ALW turned in a pile of mediocre work. If you don't have a million dollars to throw into the physical production first rate casting, as well as a director focused on keeping everything moving... you've got NOTHING.

I'll admit the lyrics are stupid, but the show packed a wallop when it first was on Bway. The revival sucked.

[quote]You eldergays crack me up. ... Mandy sucks. Patti sucks. No one today wants to hear them.

And yet people "today" want to hear Madonna and Antonio Banderas in a more than two decade old movie? 1996 is closer to 1980 than it is to 2018.

I saw it on Broadway in 1980 when I was 15 and it was thrilling. The reveling in power; her final, frail but steely deathbed assertion of an Achillean choice (which Madonna turned maudlin). But the production then masked a lot of flaws I've seen in other performances: mainly the almost unremitting banality of the prosaic lyrics ("So the Argentine-Italy axis still has some hope") and the frequent tv-commercial-like flourishes in the music (unavoidable in a popular composition from the 70s?).

The songs are the best ALW ever wrote: "Another Suitcase in Another Hall" is a beautifully poignant ballad, "Rainbow High" is dynamic and exciting (and has my favorite orchestrations in any ALW song, when the lyrics turn to "Next stop will be Europe"), "And the Money Kept Rolling In" is the same, and "Waltz for Eva and Che" may be the most sophisticated thing ALW has ever written.

The biggest problem with the show is the same as that as for almost all of ALW's early shows (which have better scores than his later work): they all started as concept albums with not much thought to dramatic staging, and it shows. If you've got an absolutely brilliant director like Hal Prince, you can pull them off, but otherwise they come off as stagey and static.

I thought the original broadway show was amazing. And the movie was just fun.

Terrible! Horrible! Yuck!

"I want to be a part of B.A.. Buenos Aires, Big Apple"

"All dressed up to the nines, at sixes and sevens for you.

"I'm immune to gloom"

You people are 'amazed' by this shit??? What the fuck is the matter with you? The score is mediocre and the lyric writing is obvious garbage.

Saw it in Boston--meh Saw it a few years later in London--amazing, obsessed. Love Patti AND Elaine Paige! Have seen some fantastic school performances of Evita--the title role calls for all-out scenery chewing, as only ambitious youth or desperate understudy could pull off. Madonna as Evita--no. Ricky Martin revival--zzzzzzz

R32 they may be closer together in the timeline but the movie and its soundtrack are still modern and closer to today's sound than 1980. That recording is practically the 70s. No one would choose that old thing except eldergays. Also, everyone is nostalgic about the 90s now. So there!

Listening to a soundtrack album, even a great one, only marginally approximates seeing the show. Not only is there no, you know, show - but the performances on the album are usually quite different than what the same actor does on stage - and that usually further evolves over their run.

While ALW’s work is uniformly pretty mediocre to dreadful Evita is probably his best show overall - and it still suffers from much of his usual hack work. But with brilliant direction, staging, performances, etc even a really shitty show can sometimes make for a great theatrical experience - The Lion King is another example.

So yeah the album is dated sounding, and all of the flaws in the lyrics & music are glaringly obvious - but I think most of the people who actually saw the original Broadway production, and I am one, would agree it’s legendary status is deserved.

R36 - what musical doesn't have cheeseball lyrics? Don't they have to be easy to understand and simple because they are only heard by theatergoers once. Most musical lyrics have pop song levels of sophistication.

Patty found a great way to get around the lyrics.

Please gentle Eva will you bless a little child----come on haters, thats a great melody.

Put your hate on Hamilton where its deserved

The songs are thrilling, when sung by good singers. Here is Patti during the original run giving a supernatural performance on Rainbow High.

The show itself? Hal Prince staged it brilliantly, but the show is fundamentally flawed. There's way too much exposition. Too much telling the audience what happened rather than showing it. When you see the show, no matter how well staged or performed, it leaves you feeling empty. You never get to know Eva, beyond the fact that she was ambitious.

Again, a great collection of songs, staged well by Hal Prince. Beyond that, the musical itself isn't very good.

And, holy shit, Patti LuPone was good. Watch here when the slap the mink on her. Fuuuuck. No one does it like Patti. I think if I could watch any performance I missed, it would be Patti in Evita. Above even Merman in Gypsy and Streisand in Funny Girl.

" You never get to know Eva, beyond the fact that she was ambitious. "

EXACTLY--which makes you wonder about the souls of the creators to have allowed that itsy bitsy oversight .

I's a fan'astic sho! Bes mu-cal evr!

No you give her too much credit.

istt a fanhfgasc skhob. Bszxc muvhm,dexd

R25 Florence Stanley played Abe Vigoda's wife Bernice on the "Barney Miller" spinoff "Fish", among other roles. Maybe you're thinking of Florence Lacey, also a fave of Jerry Herman's.

The original "Evita" on Broadway had a great staging and Patti, Mandy and Bob Gunton were all very fine. Patti had a great voice, though I left the theater thinking "what the hell was she saying"? Her diction was pretty bad, but since I've heard operas where I didn't understand the words in the other language, I gave her a pass. But that Tony awards where she sings "Buenos Aires" with the nonsense lyrics is hysterical.

This will be on the Datalounge Desert Island Disk

My parents used to play the soundtrack a lot when I was a kid (not the Patti LuPone one - I think it was Elaine Paige or maybe Julie Covington), and the songs really weirded me out. I used to puzzle over the lyrics ('at sixes and sevens with you'? 'From the gutter theatrical'?) and - absent any knowledge of the historical events - I couldn't work out what the story was supposed to be about. Something about Argentina (lol), the military and a woman who was a movie star who died (that's what I thought she was). Also couldn't get why Che hated Evita so much.

Anyhow, it was a relief to finally see the movie. Suddenly I had a context for all those songs. It was like, 'Oh, that's what that was about.'

Your entire argument is untrue, R40. Hammerstein. Sondheim. Lerner. Comden and Green. Harburg. Gershwin. One of the great strengths of the musical theater has been the excellent lyric writing.

There has always been some shlock in the mix and that is exactly where Tim Rice exists. Thoughtless. Artless. Lazy.

I don't know much of the background, just saw the film with Madonna.

She didn't sing the songs the best, but was better than people expected, due to a lot of vocal training.

She really threw herself into the role, and I think she could identify with Eva Person in many ways. There are similarities in their life stories. Like Eva, Madonna's mother died at a young age from cancer too.

But the film also gave her the chance to reinvent herself with her heartfelt performance - it gave her back some humanity and possibly saved her career after a strong backlash against her extremely vulgar attempts to shock and provoke people in the years prior.

The vocal training also gave her more polish on her critically acclaimed 'Ray Of Light' LP that came out around the same time.

But unfortunately Madonna didn't manage to continue her acting success after that role, and she eventually went back to formula with her image and music career.

I saw the original production, but shortly after Patti had left. Derin Altay was Evita. I love the Original Cast Album, but I wish that, if Patinkin really *had* to do that corny accent, someone had coached him on it. Now, committed to recording forever, we have such gems as, "She's the New World Mee-donna with thee golden touch!" No Spanish speaker would say "madonna" that way. And why did Peron have an accent but Evita didn't? Patti LuPone was amazing.

I also saw various road productions, and they were pretty bad. One I saw within the past 5 years or so had one actress as pre-Peron Eva and a different one in the second act as EVITA. It was very strange. I didn't even notice until I said to my friend that the actress playing her suddenly got much better in Act II.

My favorite songs include "Waltz for Eva and Che," "High Flying, Adored," and "Buenos Aires," but I agree with those saying the lyrics can often be clunky and awkward. "Fundamental system of government quite incidental," "the gutter theatrical," "her only good parts are between her thighs [yuck]," etc. I like the line, "What is the good of the strongest heart in a body that's falling apart?" I like that everyone in the show, including herself. sees Eva as a formidable force of nature, even though she was just a young, pretty woman. I can imagine in that line how betrayed she felt by her body.

I also like that the show gets how scary she was and how challenging to the status quo, motivated by class resentment but also, I believe, true concern for the poor. I'd really like to find a fair and nuanced biographical treatment of Eva Peron, one that portrays her accomplishments as well as how awful and ridiculous a person she was.

I love the orchestrations in the concept album- so weird and bizarre. The Broadway show was exceptionally exciting. You cannot get any more theatrical than that production and the cast was stellar. As far as Patti- she was all fire and brimstone and had the clout and presence to believe that millions would worship her.. So what did they do with the revival?- Hire Ricky who couldn't act and a woman who couldn't sing the score and blended into the scenery.. Rainbow high originally was so brilliant- Larry Fuller was responsible for the great choreography and staging.

R53, is the concept album the one with Julie Covington? I liked that one, too, including the extra lyrics. Whenever I hear, "If these are the people of Buenos Aires, I welcome the chance to shine in their city," I add mentally, "And to trample their rotten values into the ground!" Told you she was hardcore.

Patti LuPone 1980

R43 The mink moment is amazing.

[quote] "Fundamental system of government quite incidental,"

That's not fair. You've left off words that render the quotation nonsensical.

The line in full (and more properly punctuated) would read as: "There is evil ever around, fundamental; system of government quite incidental." It's a little awkward, but it makes sense.

I saw it on Broadway with Loni Ackerman, and remember being blown away by that moment with the mink being slapped on her. It has stayed with me for 35 years.

The other parts of the staging I remember: the revolving bed-door for "Good Night and Thank You," and the little girls on Peron's lap playing pattycake during "The Rainbow Tour" (and when one of them tries to run off at the end, he pulls her back and starts to molests her).

The other thing I remember: it was in 1982, during the start of the crisis that led to the Falklands War. When Evita sang "If England can do without me, than Argentina can do without England!" the whole audience laughed very, very nervously.

I like the lyric "from the gutter theatrical," weird syntax be damned. It's evocative and phonetically fun.

Everyone goes on about Patti but I think Julie Covington's performance on the original concept album is the best version. Her voice isn’t as brassy and she sounds very English (and she mispronounces descamisados) but she really puts across Eva’s hunger and greed.

It's awful, it's historically inaccurate. I think it's a shame they make projects with inaccurate things in them

R57, the lyrics you provide are dismal, proving the point of the poster who you say posted a portion of them out of context.

I saw Loni Ackerman in the Helen Gallagher role in a tour of No, No, Nanette with Evelyn Keyes, Benny Baker, Betty Keane, etc. Ackerman's mother was Cyma Rubin, who had co-produced the Broadway revival leading to the tour, which must have lead to charges of nepotism. Except that Ackerman was fabulous, really wonderful, and I've always wondered why she didn't have a big career. I've both often read and sometimes heard from people who saw her as Evita that she was fantastic and I easily believe it. Likewise Florence Lacey, who I've seen several times but never as Evita and I wish I had.

R56 there are other recording where there's a goddamned APPLAUSE BREAK at the mink moment.

I can't really explain why, but the essence of my homosexuality is in that very moment!

Listen to the opening night. First of all, Lauren Bacall was in the audience. Third row. When Patti sang, or in this case growled the lyric "so LAUREN BACALL ME" she looked right at her. The audience picks up on it and applauds. The mink applause is here too!

On Patti's closing night, she sings the song with a way sped up tempo. The orchestra can barely keep up with her. I have a feeling this is a result of many coked up nights.

BTW the mink thing gets applause here too.

Here's Elaine Paige doing it. She's great, but the song sounds dirge-like compared to the Patti version.

R64 awesome, R65 almost manic, R66 Paige had voice but didn’t push it like Patti.

As a gay kid I found the cast recording of Evita a wonderful escape. I found the record at the library, early eighties. I didn't really understand what was going on in the show but I connected to this outsider who found a way to work the system and become herself. To me it seemed like it was about transformation and I desperately need that as a kid. "A New Argentina" was so exciting. She is able to excite and ignite the crowd through her words and actions and that seemed so powerful to me. I know every word and every breathe in that soundtrack. A lot of gay men my age have shared similar memories of adoring the soundtrack as a kid.

[quote] Although LuPone was hailed by critics, she has since said that her time in Evita was not an enjoyable one. In a 2007 interview, she stated " 'Evita' was the worst experience of my life," she said. "I was screaming my way through a part that could only have been written by a man who hates women. And I had no support from the producers, who wanted a star performance onstage but treated me as an unknown backstage. It was like Beirut, and I fought like a banshee."

I saw the Broadway show when I was a kid. It was the best thing I had ever seen at that point. Lupone was my idol for the next several years.

Fucking fantastic!!!

Madonna as Evita? Brought to us courtesy of Auto-Tune.

I like the lines from Peron's Latest Flame:

Péron is a fool, breaking every taboo Installing a girl in the Army HQ And she's an actress, the last straw Her only good parts are between her thighs She should stare at the ceiling, not reach for the skies Or she could be his last whore.

Florence Lacey is from my hometown. I saw her do "Evita" at the Benedum Center in Pittsburgh more than 30 years ago. She was fantastic. I think she later toured in "Sunset Boulevard."

While the film version of "Evita" isn't the greatest, it is certainly more watchable than "Chicago."

Oh, R63. The essence of your homosexuality is indeed shallow.

As for how Miss Lupone was treated by her producers, a friend was in the chorus of the original cast of EVITA. She told me at the time that it was not long into the run before Miss Lupone - except when on stage - stayed in her dressing room and spoke to no one in the company. Not when arriving for the evening. Not when departing. Never during the performance itself. She only appeared in the wings immediately before taking the stage for each scene in the performance. And everyone was just fine with that.

Was it Florence Lacey or Loni Ackerman that had the shit slapped out her??? She was afraid of heights and at one point right before "Don't Cry For Me Argentina" she freaked and the dresser had no clue what to do. She just slapped the fuck out of the actress to get her to cut the crap. The actress told this story, not the dresser. I wish I could remember who it was.

Ugly ass patti lupone. Nothing like Eva.

Patti as Eva.

R47 never heard that story.

R74 ..oops. Not R47

[quote] [R57], the lyrics you provide are dismal, proving the point of the poster who you say posted a portion of them out of context.

Yet, they do make sense syntactically. If you're going to claim they're dismal, at least be fair and quote them in full. Otherwise it's like saying Sondheim writes terrible lyrics and providing as proof that he writes "It pay some people can't even give it away!"

[quote] Was it Florence Lacey or Loni Ackerman that had the shit slapped out her???

It was Florence Henderson. And Marcia slapped the shit out of her because Marcia is such a bitch.

[quote] " 'Evita' was the worst experience of my life," she said. "I was screaming my way through a part that could only have been written by a man who hates women. And I had no support from the producers, who wanted a star performance onstage but treated me as an unknown backstage. It was like Beirut, and I fought like a banshee."

That is just like her. She's such an ungrateful bitch it's hilarious! I'll never forget in her over-the-top memoir that she complains the reasons she was a critical failure in "as You Like It" at the Guthrie Theatre in Minneapolis was because the neighboring city of St. Paul (she claims) is the occult center of the United States.

Say what you want about Patti's backstage behavior, she is brilliant in Evita. There is video to prove it. You can't say she wasn't. You just can't.

Patti Lupone was NOT brilliant as Evita. There, i said it. And she really wasn't. The video reminds me everytime. She performed buenos aires like a low budget lounge singer. Just awful. The attitude. The face. The screaming/singing. It all matches. Doggy chow.

R83 that Buenos Aries video is a couple years after she left the show. Watch the videos of the actual production. She's a woman possessed. Her Rainbow High is the most thrilling thing I've ever seen done on stage.

Lonita.....

Florita.....

I wish videos of Devin Altar would surface. She supposedly played the role quite differently from everyone else which dome liked but many didnt Anyone see Her?

R87 so funny. I'm an OBC Evita aficionado and I never heard of Devin Altar. I'm dead curious. I thought Loni Ackerman took it over right after La LuPone.

Someone actually had a bootleg of Patti's alternate (and Eve Harrington, according to Patti) Terri Klausner. She sounded great.

R85 She sounds great. It’s just matter of taste do you prefer her or Patti or do you like both. Both were right for the part but for me Patti is the real deal. R88 Loni did it in LA, not on Broadway.

Count me in as another one who worships LuPone as Evita. She truly had a starmaking moment that has lasted nearly 40 years. She's still the greatest Evita and always will be, whether you agree or not. I've been listening to the OBC my whole life (I was born on opening night of Evita, so it's in the stars for me to be obsessed with this show) and nothing can come close. However, I do enjoy the Paige and Covington recordings, and even the Spanish cast with Paloma San Basilio.

You need an Evita who can blow the roof of the theater. It only makes sense to have a strong woman in the role, how else would she whip an entire nation into a frenzy? When you have a weak Evita (Elena Roger), it exposes the flaws of the show. And yes, there are many, many flaws in Evita.

she really was olympic in Evita. Where she'd find the stamina to pull that kind of performance 8 times week for months is beyond me.

Loni did it on Broadway for 1 year following Derin. Altay was beautiful, had a gorgeous voice, but had no fire and brimstone- actually she was dull in the role. I somehow found myself at Loni's table for the opening night of Evita at Chassen's in LA. Bacall was seated there and actually said to Loni..."Well you don't have to worry about collecting unemployment for a while". Nancy Opel was terrific in the part as Matinee Eva- superb acting.

[quote]she really was olympic in Evita. Where she'd find the stamina to pull that kind of performance 8 times week for months is beyond me.

She frequently went down to the Village after the show to do a midnight show of her cabaret act at Les Mouches.

....

^well, that's crazy. was it really the coke?

[quote]She didn't sing the songs the best, but was better than people expected, due to a lot of vocal training.

Don't forget that Madonna *recorded* the soundtrack. That is very different from singing live. You can do many, many takes and your voice can be wrangled into pitch after-the-fact.

I think Madonna exceeded expectations because the film was really just one long music video, something she had always been good at. Where she is at her most awful is when she has to speak dialogue.

Madonna's voice is very thin and reedy. She had to be miked very closely and then have it carefully balanced electronically to be heard over the large orchestra used for the film. She could could never have handled it live.

Loni Ackerman was absolutely terrible--when I saw it, she spoke-sang the role like Rex Harrison.

"(sung) The answer was here all the time... (spoke) I love you!... (sung) and hope you love me."

Anyone who grew up in the tri-State area between 1979 and 1982 remembers this. I must've seen this ad thousands of times.

R88 the Lincoln Center Archive has Loni Ackerman doing it on Broadway.

I don't understand why they didn't get Patti.

It's Derin Altay, not Devin Altar, and yes, I saw her, as I said way up above.

I'm the one who posted the examples of awkward lyrics, and I didn't think I was doing it wrong. I thought it was "fundamental system of government," an adjectival phrase, not "fundamental" separate from "system." So please calm down. Are you sure, though? I've never read the lyrics, just memorized the whole damn show through unbelievably frequent repeats of the soundtrack album through the years.

"I was SLAP in the right place at the perfect time. Filled a GAP, I was lucky..."

I always found these lyrics strange. Eva wasn't in the right place. She MADE it all happen.

One of my favorite things is how Patti sings "No one else can FILL IT like I cannnnn" here. Fucking triumphant DIVA!

When I start fangurling on La LuPone, I get gay as a goose.

The film was in production hell for years and many different stars and directors were involved at some point. Ken Russell wanted to film it with Streisand, who turned him down. He then screen tested Liza, who supposedly was terrific, but Tim Rice allegedly vetoed her because he wanted his then girlfriend Elaine Paige. Liza's test is said to still exist but it's never surfaced publicly.

At one point Oliver Stone was onboard to direct Michelle Pfeiffer. Stone has a writer's credit in the film.

Other women considered over years were Patti, Karla DeVito, Derin Altay, JLo, Mariah, Gloria Estafan, Sarah Brightman and even Bette Midler.

I've never seen the Florence Lacey performance. That was a damn good "Rainbow High."

[quote] I always found these lyrics strange. Eva wasn't in the right place. She MADE it all happen.

Because in that bit she's speaking to the public as First Lady, and trying hard to hide her naked ambition and seem more demure.

"It had to happen the cast had to change, for how long can a girl do a show? A year and a half and enough is enough. Even without matinees, it got really rough. I'd go to the theater just fine but then I'd be worn out by 9..."

[quote] The film was in production hell for years and many different stars and directors were involved at some point. Ken Russell wanted to film it with Streisand, who turned him down. He then screen tested Liza, who supposedly was terrific, but Tim Rice allegedly vetoed her because he wanted his then girlfriend Elaine Paige. Liza's test is said to still exist but it's never surfaced publicly.

Don't forget that Gene Saks wanted to make it with Lucille Ball, but Gary Morton wisely convinced her to turn it down.

I want to see the Liza test!!!!

I've heard the Liza test isn't all that great, r103. Nothing I can verify, but why else hasn't it surfaced somewhere?

I saw it at the Jupiter Dinner Theater with Loni Anderson as Evita, Jim Nabors as Che, and Tim Conway as Peron.

The buffet was good.

That was a stock tour, r110. I saw it at a later stop but Stritch had replaced Ackerman.

What about Miss Ruth Buzzi?

r103 You left out Meryl!!! (She'll be here soon to chide you I'm sure.)

Before Oliver Stone tried to make it with Pfeiffer, he was all set to do it with Streep sometime around 1989 or so. They had some sort of falling out at the last minute and for some reason it never happened. (the fight was pretty juicy I've heard, Meryl had been interested in this project for years so her repulsion with Stone must have been huge.)

There of course was the question of if she could sing. She borrowed Sting's London recording studio and made an audition tape that supposedly shocked Weber with how good it was. He was ecstatic to have her but......Some say it is the one great Streep performance that got away. Meryl insisted the audition tapes be destroyed.

She did Postcards from the Edge around this time and I've always felt her singing at the end was a little bit of a shout out to how she could actually deliver a song. Some may say she doesn't have the greatest voice but I've noticed even in stuff like Mama Mia she really knows how to act a song.

Liza's audition was for Ken Russell who was supposedly going to make it very surreal. (like Tommy.)

I think it was supposed to be a film within a film type thing. (actors making a film of Evita)

There are even photos online of Liza touring Buenos Aires so she must have really wanted this.

Mandy Patinkin’s performance is one of the most grotesque I have ever heard.

Andrea Martin was best in the role.

[quote]Where she'd find the stamina to pull that kind of performance 8 times week for months is beyond me.

I thought she didn't do the matinees?

[quote]Mandy Patinkin’s performance is one of the most grotesque I have ever heard.

Mandy was such a HAM!

R70, Autotune would be another 2 years away.

R117 True. Alternative performs the matinees.

Could Audra sing it? or would it be too operatic?

It's a punishing role. I doubt Audra would do that to her voice.

R121 judge for yourself!

It doesn't really work with Audra. She's a soprano, so those high notes are too effortless for her. It needs to be an alto. I'd like to hear Audra do the "He supports you, 'cause he loves you, understands you, is one OF you" lines from A New Argentina. Impossiblly high for Patti, but she did it. Some wonderful queen culled all the versions of that line into one video. It's fascinating. Posted below.

I read that what Hal Prince discovered was that he was casting was, you needed an actress who struggled to hit the high notes. They had to seem like they were working, and so it was all the more impressive. Really, Patti was perfect. She struggled with the score, and once she mastered it, it was the most thrilling thing ever on a Broadway stage. Audra hits them too easily.

R124 Patti did it also at Tony Awards in 1979/80 and it’s on youtube. Amazing notes and energy.

It;s a brilliant show, pure and simple

Audra played the part twice beforevshe was famous.

R126 I'm curious- what production of it did you see? I think I saw it some time around 2002 or so with Valeri Perri playing Eva. They were still using the Hal Prince direction at that point. Jesus, from what I've seen the new version (Broadway 2012) is terrible compared to Hal Prince.

As I said, I think the music is great. The individual songs are. And if you get good people to sing them, its amazing.

But, as a stage production, I just can't get on board. Not enough character development, and too much telling you about stuff, and explaining, not enough showing.

I've always said, a concert version with Mandy and Patti at Carnegie Hall would be amaz-balls.

R127 I've heard they sent feelers out to Audra about replacing Elaine Rogers on Broadway. They even contacted Patti's reps to see if she might do it.

R124: Why did the person who made that video include some versions from what seemed like college productions? Eek!

R130 Not sure exactly what was included there, but I came across an Evita video a few weeks ago that I assumed was a community theater production. Nope. I was the national tour of Evita from the mid '00s!

R124 Florence Lacey is pretty good.

I saw the 2011 production of Follies many times. Florence Lacey had a small part, but she was Elaine Paige's understudy. She, uh, looks like she's been eating well. Which, you know, God bless her. But the parts where guys flirt with Carlotta didn't quite seem to work. She was in good voice, though.

BTW Paige's version of I'm Still Here was ok, but it was pretty thrilling just to see her sing live.

Florita's BA.......

Audra played Evita in high school when she was 16. I'd love to see clips of that.

R134 I'm sure she was amazing in a high school production. And you KNOW it was at least VHS taped.

But this, this right here? This is a woman who is otherworldly talented, and has harnessed it, .and is in COMPLETE control.

[quote]My parents used to play the soundtrack a lot when I was a kid (not the Patti LuPone one - I think it was Elaine Paige or maybe Julie Covington),

[quote]Listening to a soundtrack album, even a great one, only marginally approximates seeing the show. Not only is there no, you know, show - but the performances on the album are usually quite different than what the same actor does on stage - and that usually further evolves over their run.

Repeat after me: Stage shows do NOT have "soundtracks."

Is anyone working on a new musical called "Melania?"

This is the production I would kill to see.

That is the production this shitty show deserves.

The Evita at R138's link gives new meaning to this line from the show...

"Your country which grew up and grew rich on beef is now rationing it."

Evita Schmevita. I wish someone would put together a full on Broadway production of "Here Lies Love," followed by a big budgeted movie version with the incomparable Regine Velasquez.

What, r138 -- the production with Catherine Zeta-Jones, a reanimated Jacques Brel as Che, and dead Cyril Richard as Peron?

Speaking of Peron, what do we think of Jonathan Pryce's performance in the movie?

IMO he was better than either Madonna or Banderas.

OP, for the last time, EVITA IS SHIT!

There.

Darling, it had the singing bowel movement Mandy Patinkin in it...therefore it STANK

R138 looks like DL legend Kate Collins on prednisone and Rip Taylor as Peron

Thank you, R144. I quite agree. Simple music for simple people. Hal Prince just gave 'em the old razzle dazzle and they never caught wise.

R144, your opinion is shit.

There.

"simple music for simple people"

arent you talkin Greatest Showman or Hamilton at best?

"Simple music for simple people"

I hope Darlene does a Dolly tour.

I searched Youtube for community theatre productions of "Evita" and came across one from a high school in Canada. I watched for several minutes and thought to link it here for some laughs. But then I changed my mind because it wouldn't be very nice to these kids who obviously had worked hard. I guess maybe I DON'T have a cold dead heart. I only mention this because of some interesting casting. I am sure their theatre arts teacher had the brilliant idea to cast Che with four (!?!) people, two of them women.

oh come on R152....now I'm curious!

Anyone know the OBC well? Does Terri Klausner the famed alternate that Patti hated have any solo lines on it?

I looked at some high school productions of Evita on YouTube, and there was one that was pretty good. Some asshole in the comments wrote "Che sucked"

Can you imagine some queen with Judy Garland/Wizard of Oz commemorative plates on his rented apartment walls, who's father died 14 years ago but he still can't get over being hated by him, who hasn't gotten any dick since the Clinton administration, feeling the need to say a 15 year old kid in a high school production sucked? What piece of shit.

"Strange how potent cheap music is."

I think "dressed to the nines; at sixes-and-sevens with you" is a fairly clever lyric.

The one that makes me want to hurl tomatoes is:

"It's vital you sell me

So machiavell me!"

R2 Madonna sang it best?

Even my straight, homophobic, Trump supporting relative knows that's BULLSHIT.

I'm not saying LuPone sang it best, but some unknown singer on a Malaysian/Portuguese/Pygmy out-of-print cast album sang it better than Madonna. I don't think you even typed that without laughing yourself.

R2 Michelle Visage singing the score in a shower with bad tiles that DO NOT provide a haunting echo, sings it better than Madonna.

Leave this lounge.

R2 Even Faye Dunaway with Andrew Lloyd Weber's cock in her mouth would sing it better than Madonna.

Anna Nicole Smith -- now -- would sing it better than Madonna.

All the stage Evitas had the advantage of some actual physical distance from the audience when they had to sing those lyrics that are so poorly written and bereft of specific meaning.

Madonna had to sing them in close up with a movie camera parked five feet from her nose. Say what you will about her little voice, she met the challenge of those awful lyrics and did not back down.

Lana Del Rey sings You Must Love Me

Speaking of lyrics, the double us of "state" in "Oh What A Circus" irks me -

"But the star has gone, the glamor's worn thin/That's a pretty bad state for a state to be in."

double use ...

OBC pic.

Who played Che at Lupone's last performance? (he is on some of the youtube tapes)

Mandy Patinkin was usually Che. But wow, this was something.

Sinead O'Connor

Somebody says it is James Stein.

Karen Carpenter

Were Sinead and Karen auditioning for the film? I think there is a clip of Olivia Newton John singing it too. That one was definitely and audition.

Nick and Simon are the best Evitas.

I think many people don't really get- Don't Cry for Me Argentina is a lie. It's like Trump speaking in Pennsylvania- telling people what they want to hear. So when La LuPone did it at the Grammys recently, that was how is resonated for me. Pretty brilliant.

Here's Lisa Simpson's homage to Rainbow High.

You mean outside the show r174? In the show it is pretty clear it is a performance. (the way the stage spun around and she tells Peron just listen to that we are adored! We are loved!! and then it spins around again and she performs more and gives that speech..............BTW Lupone does that speech brilliantly. What a harangue.

R168 yeah, no one ever sang Evita like that. And it's very likely no one ever will. She was supernatural in that performance, and she got better and better as time went on.

It's funny- I was around when Evita was playing on Broadway (albeit young). You never ever heard Patti LuPone's name. It was as if they just didn't want a "breakout star" from the show. I saw the ad 100,000 times, but never knew her name until I saw her in Anything Goes in 1988.

R176 yeah I guess. It's just a strange song to sing as a stand alone. Even Patti cries (or used to, for a long time) when she sings it.

R176 -

I am only a simple woman Who lives to serve Peron in his noble crusade To rescue his people I was once as you are now, and I promise you this We will take the riches from the oligarchs Only for you, for all of you And one day, you too will inherit these treasures Descamisados, mis companeros When they fire those cannons, when the crowds sing of glory It is not just for Peron, but for all of us, for all of us

Is mis companeros really in the speech? I don't remember that part. But thanks for the rest!!!

No r177. You must have just been too young to notice. She was the toast of the town.

R180 - I think my cat sneaked that in when I wasn't looking.

Write your name and your dream on a card or a pad or a ticket, throw it high in the air should our lady pick it

She will change your way of life for a week or even twooo, name me anyone who cares as much as Eva Peron!

Thank GOD for Switzerland! Where are girl and guy with a little petty cash between them, can be sure when they deposit no ones seeen them

OH what BLISS to sign your checks at 30127, Never been accounts in the name of EVA PERON!

With gestures, no doubt.

R174 You’re right. Never thought of that.

The lyrics were written by Tim Rice, a Brit, in England for a work developed and debuted in England.

At sixes and sevens is a commonly understood phrase in that country.

I like most of the songs, the connecting 'bits' not so much, and prefer Julie Covington's singing of the role to any of the stage Evitas I've heard. Favorite lyric is probably 'Such a shame she wandered into our enclosure / How unfortunate this person has forced us to be blunt / No we wouldn't mind seeing her in Harrods / But behind the jewelry counter, not in front.'

There are no scientific signs that people are getting dumber; people become less educated, I guess, and less into compensation and soul and subject, and more analyzed about mental health and sexuality, but not dumber, there is also scientific progress.

What R181 said. Absolutely.

[quote]prefer Julie Covington's singing of the role to any of the stage Evitas I've heard.

Horses for courses but I always thought she was singing in between tokes... found her almost lethargic.

Screw the middle classes. Or not.

So used to the more refined lyrics of Hammerstein, Sondheim, Porter, etc, I will pretty shocked at how modern Rice’s were. He forces in rhymes but they work in Evita because the whole work gave off a “I’m not traditional broadway” vibe.

Patti has some backstage guests.

I"ll bet Tim Rice wishes he could rewrite "Don't Cry for me Argentina" with better lyrics.

So is this what caused the Falklands War?

[quote] OH what BLISS to sign your checks at 30127,

I have never understood that lyric. What does 30127 mean? I've Googled it but never had any luck.

r195, Che is singing that Peron and Eva are hiding money through checks to secret Swiss bank accounts, which you do not have to sign by name but by number. "30127" is just a random number.

[quote] Is mis companeros really in the speech?

It's not.

It's hard to forgive Mandy Patinkin for those horrible exaggerated stereotypical accents during "The Rainbow Tour" or for singing "Instead of ideas a puh-rima donna's rage..."

r181 is correct r177.

More flattering this absolutely, positively could NOT be!

Indeed, EVITA propelled her into her big movie career.

R181 Interesting. As a kid in New Jersey (9 to 11 years old) who consumed New York media, I never heard her name, while hearing all about the show.

But, yeah, I'm sure it was much different if you were in the city, and one of the cognisetti.

The CHORUS GIRL hasn't learned the lines you'd like to hear

She won't go scrambling over the back of the poor to be accept-ED

By making donations just larrrge enough, to the correct charities

She won't be President of your WONDERFUL SOCIETY OF PHILANTHROPY

Even if you asked her to be. As you SHOULD have asked to her BE.

We got Eva Person, we got Imelda Marcos—who will be the third?

Eva Person?

Melania, is that you?

It's actually too bad Melania's such a dud. Another woman in that position could've been FABulous!

Miss Benanti will MAKE it a HIT!

Who was the critic who wrote that Mandy Patinkin sang the role of Che as a “pissed off choir boy”? His voice was all wrong for Che. David Essex was perfect. Che should have been a laid back, raspy voiced troubador.

R195, it's supposed to be a Swiss bank account number. I.e., the holder is anonymous on the books. That's the way they did it.

The best thing about the movie was throwing out Che as Che Guevera. That was never Rice and ALW's intention.

He was just supposed to be a guy, And the movie basically made him a male personification of her personality. He was what she would have been if she was a male.

[quote]He was what she would have been if she was a male.

Just with smaller balls. And cut.

I preferred "Nancita."

R210 It WAS their intention to have Che Guevara as the Greek chorus. There's a song from the concept album that incorporates several biographical details from Guevara's life.

"But Eva's not the only one who's getting the breaks; I'm a research chemist who's got what it takes And my insecticide's gonna be a bestseller"

Early on Che was working in a factory, trying to invent a new insecticide. That's a pretty specific reference.

However, I was trying to read about the politics of the Perons, and it's very, very complicated. It seems to me that Guevara would've backed the Perons. While he never met Eva, after she died Peron and Guevara were tight. So, in light of that, its likely better to just make it not Che Guevara, which has been the trend for a while now.

People who saw the Broadway production....

Who did you see? How was she? How was the Lupone alternate Terri Klausner? (I know Patti hated her.)

I saw Patti in the original Broadway run. I was not out yet and took a female date. I had been raving to her about Patti at intermission. We came back for Act 2 and got to "And the Money Kept Rolling In (And Out)". When the lyric was "Write your name and your dream on a card or a pad or a ticket/Throw it high in the air and should our lady pick it", my date leaned to me and said "Why don't you write her a note!"

^ I forgot to mention we were sitting in seats quite close to the stage which made the idea of throwing a note more feasible.

My Evita run down... Well,Patti , people either love her or hate her. She was a raw talent at that point. I don’t know anyone who saw her who wasn’t blown away (most nights) although she’s always been inconsistent, seems to get bored and more mannered as runs go on...

Klausner probably had a better voice and (anecdotally)danced better but ultimately I think the fact she never had much of a career suggests she lacked that touch of star quality.

Altay (as someone remarked )was very attractive but lacking in anything distinctive in terms of vocals or performance. The same could be said of Valerie Perri who headed the second national tour. Perri was much better (albeit older) when she headlined a tour in the mid 90s.

Ackerman was very consistent, hit all the notes and sold the big vocal “moments”,danced better and had a distinctive sound which Altay lacked. What she maybe lacked was (again) whatever it is that creates a star performance. There’s clips of the LA company on YouTube of her. Compare her with with any clips of the Patti and you’ll get an idea. Everyone has been referencing the fur “moment” in “Rainbow High”. It doesn’t land the same.

Flo Lacey was less a dancer but I remember her as actually bringing a sense of humor and her steely belt. Also a very distinctive sound and score suited her vocal range. Live it was a thrilling pairing and she certainly sold the big numbers.Again, she was very consistent performer and toured with it for years.

Nancy Opel unfortunately just didn’t make much of an impression.

It was interesting to finally hear bootlegs of nearly all the London Evas. I have also seen all but Marti Webb and Jacquey Chappell in other shows so here’s my unsolicited take on those.

Whereas Eva in NY seemed more driven, Paige has “spunk” and comes across as more scrappy. Surprisingly she used more of a mix of head and chest voice at that point of her career. Whereas Patti’s DCFMA was a tearfest, Paige’s seems more of a calculated “speech”. I think the initial understudy/alternate was Michelle Breeze,who ended up leading the New Zealand cast, and who is pretty terrible.

Marti Webb came in to do the matinees after Paige began to miss performances. Webb has had a stage career since the Sixties and is another immediately recognizable voice (along the lines of a young Betty Buckley) and still touring it in the U.K. in mid-nineties sounding about the same but looking a bit like a toothy Miss Michael Learned by that point.Stephanie Lawrence apparently brought a great deal of sex appeal and her live vocals have more color and she possessed a bigger, fuller sound than she ever displayed on any of her studio recordings. London’s original mistress Siobhán McCarthy came back as Eva and is probably akin to Derin Altay. Very beautiful (judging from the souvenir program ) but not very distinctive and the belty moments seem to be a strain. Jacquey Chappell is a mystery but bringing up the rear was Kathryn Evans (who kind of had a Lynda Carter/Liz Taylor look) .There’s an audio bootleg of Act Two (only) of closing night with her and much like the audio of Patti’s last performance,she’s on fire and rather thrilling but veddy British (rolled “R”s, perfect diction etc).

I think there are samples of some of these on YouTube.

I haven't read thru the entire thread so hopefully I'm not being redundant.

I saw both the original on Bway with Lupone, and the movie with Madonna, of course. I'm tired of hearing about the comparisons. lol I thought both were great within their respective mediums, and I thought both were ideally cast. Lupone has an amazing vocal instrument and can reach the last row in any theater no matter the size. She's larger than life on stage and was perfection. But I can see how she might have been too overpowering on screen, (not to mention she was too old by then).

Madonna has a thin voice. She can sing sweetly and in tune but it's not particularly unique. However, it's near-perfect in a pop-sounding way and I think Alan Parker did very well by her. I went in expecting to hate her but was pleasantly surprised. I even bought the soundtrack and played it repeatedly.

It would definitely have been fascinating to see Meryl or MIchelle Pfeiffer do it, (both were supposed to at different times), but Madonna did well enough for me.

And as for the unfortunate Elena Roger. Having seen her in other shows and having heard her sing in Spanish and French, it’s unfortunate that a) she didn’t do the show in Spanish and b) it was that terrible production. I thought she acted the role well but vocally..it’s is not unlike hearing Piaf sing in English (same song,same voice but something gets lost In translation).There was a Spanish version of DCFMA included as a bonus track and whatever was missing in the English language version seems to be there in her native tongue and I think easily on par with Paloma San Basilio, the Spanish Evita who is very highly regarded.Inherently the Prince staging highlights (literally) the actress playing Eva . I lost Elena in the crowd during “Buenos Aires” both times I saw her only to realize she was right in front of me. The difference being have a diminutive actress engulfed in a circle of light versus dancing in a synchronized mob of people.

Over the years I grew less and less enamored with Mandy’s performance (“pissed off choir boy” kind of nails it). I much prefer the rougher, more rock sounding British Che(s) and don’t get me started on Ricky Martin’s prancing performance.

As for Madonna.. I wasn’t expecting Broadway vocals (I had already heard a rough mix of the soundtrack before seeing the film) and was actually okay with her kinder,gentler Eva. The great disservice, I thought, was the constant cutting and poor direction. I remember immediately being aware shots seemed to last about 7-8 seconds during the funeral scene (and started counting 1001,1002,1003 etc...cut.)The brown contacts gave her dead,shark eyes and the MTV editing ultimately made it impossible to really judge could she have actually acted it. I remember thinking her version of the “Lament” actually suggested she could have done it.

There’s a new production with a Tina Arena opening in Australia. Based on clips of a concurrent world tour, the production does look dated and very much of its time. The screen. The photos.The film clips. Seems primitive forty years on...

At the time, all my friends and I were mostly theater majors and bonded over EVITA and Patti and we all had seen the various original companies. It was that big of deal and more of a unifying factor than Sondheim was. He wasn’t “SONDHEIM” yet. I would probably liken it to HAMILTON , the difference being..theater wasn’t cool. We were in the minority and away from the Tristate.major cities, no one knew EVITA unless you were familiar with theater. Later whenever she came up in conversation, most people seemed to know Patti from LIFE GOES ON whereas she before she was more of a NYC/Broadway celebrity. (Coworkers know Audra from tv,not theater)

R181, NY eldergay here, you stole the words from my mouth that I started to post several times earlier in the thread, at the time Patti was the Toast of New York. I'm not even a big Patti fan but at the time, between Evita and her appearances at Les Mouches, she was The Queen of Gay New York.

But that was many years ago. I doubt that anyone would know....

Oh, Sweeney. You scamp!

I'm surprised with all of the other Evitas' clips out there, I've yet to find any of Klausner.

Patti destroyed them ALL.

I saw Evita in San Fran before it came to B'way. I though Lupone was ok- nothing special. I thought Che (Mandy) was the standout both in voice and stage presence and charisma. Of course that was long before anyone knew what a nut he was. I thought the show good, but no close to some of my favorite (musicals).

^^ That's believable. Both the great and the awful thing about live theater is that it's live. It's practically impossible to give the same sensational performance every night. Lupone might had an off night when you saw it.

I was so disappointed when I saw Lupone after everything I had heard. Then somebody forced me to go again a few weeks later. She was amazing!

I used to work for a PR office that represented the show Hurly Burly when it first opened on Bway starring William Hurt. His performance vacillated so much from night to night that it actually effected the run time of the show. Some nights it would be 2 Hrs. 20min. Other nights as long as 3 hours.

^^affect

I love LuPone as much as anyone. But, there is an upsetting story that someone, a venerated eldergay, tells over at Broadway World.

He took a friend to see Evita some time in the middle of the run. He said Patti literally walked through it that night. She was clearly pissed off at something, and just decided to on, but not to perform.

This has colored his opinion on Patti for nearly 40 years now, and I get it. I saw her at the Le Conte Playhouse (now the Geffen) in 1992, and she made a big show of restarting "I Dreamed a Dream" when she forgot the lyrics, because "these people paid a lot of money"

R224 According to Patti’s memoirs the tryouts in LA and SF were anything but easy. She blew her voice out more than once and was unable to rehearse and perform.

R228 yes, she struggled with the score at first, and was damn near replaced.

Amazing when you see video of her performances later in the Broadway run. She's completely mastered it. And on Saturday nights, after the show, she'd go do an entire cabaret act.

I guess I saw LuPone on a good night (preview - Patinkin was out) as she was charismatic, raw, scary and, yes, even sexy as “Evita”. She was also the only one to find the humor and pathos in the role. Saw her later at Les Mouches but that’s another story for another time.

Klausner was ok. Nothing more, nothing less. She was no match for Patinkin.. Oh, once dolled up Klausner looked like Lucille Ball!

Derin Altay was terrible but beautiful.

Ackerman screamed the hell out of the role but there wasn’t much depth to the performance and she has “dead” eyes. It didn’t help that the show was a bit tired at the time.

That’s all I’ve got.

I saw Stritch the night she snuck on after knocking LuPone out and tying her up inside the coffin they used in the last scene. When Elaine hit the F sharp in a New Argentina, smoke and feathers blew out of her throat. It was a total triumph. The theatre went wild.

She'd have gotten away with it if she'd just taken off the damn hat.

Funny how none of the post-Patti Evitas had very good careers (except for Nancy Opel.) Klausner had some success off-Broadway and got two drama Desk Nominations so she worked a bit.

Altay only has one other credit as the understudy to Julie and Show Boat (wasn't she white? how odd. Is she mixed race?) Was she with Gemingani during Evita? Did he get her the part?

Ackerman was the third Grizabella in Cats but that is it for Broadway.

You'd think they would at least have been able to understudy Patti or something.

It's really interesting to me. There's tape of all the subsequent Evas on YouTube, excluding Klausner and Derin Altay. None of them measure up to Patti. Not one. Not Flo Lacey, not Loni Ackerman, not Valeri Perri- none of them are in the zone like Patti. Watch all the versions of Rainbow High. None of them come close to Patti, and Patti actually seems to make it look easy.

I first saw La LuPone in Anything Goes in 1988. I invited my st8 freshman year roommate to come, and stay in my dad's company's suite in the Hotel Dorset. While I didn't get lucky with my roommate, I did have my first gay experience. And that was Patti belting the final ANNY-THING GOOOOOOOES! in front of rows of tap dancing sailors. From that moment on, I was hooked. I've been her over dozen times since. I will never forget that cold December night. I think it must have been one of her last performances.

Compare Ackerman's Rainbow High to Patti's. She just don't have it. Even the mink thing doesn't work. And I can pinpoint it.

Watch the handgesture when she dismisses all of the help. With Ackerman, it's just a gesture. With Patti it's specifically saying "GET OUT OF MY SIGHT!" Patti's is here: R43

Back in the day, Andrew Lloyd Weber was a singular sensation on Broadway. And then Disney got into the Broadway business and ALW no longer had a monopoly on his style of pap.

The way Loni Ackerman says "star quality" always irritates me.

I saw Ackerman in Cats. I saw the tape of Ackerman's full Evita performance of Evita at the Lincoln Center Library. I'm just gonna be polite and say that as Evita, Loni made a wonderful Grizabella.

I wonder about Betty Buckley. I went to the Sondheim: A Celebration Tribute at Carnegie Hall in 1992. Bernadette Peters was there, La LuPone was there. And Betty Buckley did a lovely Children Will Listen with the Harlem Boys Choir.

Flash forward to Sondheim's 80th they were all there, plus several newer performers. But Betty Buckley was not. She never originated a Sondheim role, but she took over as the Witch in Woods at some point after Cosby mom, right? Is Steve not a fan?

When I saw Patti in Bev Hills in February, she said of Sondheim "I don't think he likes me." But if you watch the 80th, when she says "I'd like to propose a toast" indicating she's about to sing Ladies Who Lunch, you can see him saying "This is perfect" in the audience.

Anyone have the inside scoop on Sondheim's feelings toward La Buckley? Of course, Peters appears to be his favorite, but I don't think she was too choked up with her Sally in the 2011 Follies.

I wonder who owns the rights to Liza's Evita screen test? Is it Liza herself?! Both Ken Russell, who was then the director, and Robert Stigwood, the producer, are dead and if either of them owned it you would think it could now be released publicly. The casual comment ALW makes about in his memoir suggests he does not own it. It's a mystery.

I would imagine that the person who literally possesses the film or video tape it's on "owns" it. If there was ever a Beatles Anthology type of documentary made about Liza's life, it would have a place there. But as it is, I don't think there is much general interest to justify the cost of digging it up, cleaning it up, and transferring it.

I would be very interested to see it. I can remember a coffee table book about ALW from 1988. It listed off the women, and parenthetical reasons they could never play Eva. I remember the Liza comment all too well. It was something like-

"She could never be played on film by Patti LuPone (not famous enough,) Barbra Streisand (too Jewish,) or Liza Minnelli (too vulgar.)"

I have read conflicting opinions about it. Some say she was awful and wearing a hastily-obtained ill-fitting blonde wig. But Ken Russell said she was wonderful and wanted to cast her. Tim Rice said no. ALW writes in his memoir that he heard she was also wonderful and makes it sound like her never saw the test.

... makes it sounds like he never saw the test ...

Liza visiting Evita's grave:

Liza is great. But Liza is Liza. Liza is not Eva Peron. I can't picture it. There is nothing I've ever seen her do that suggests to me she could play Evita. Starting with how she looks. I guess I can see it if Ken Russell were taking it a few steps beyond even the weirdness of Tommy.

Liza has done great things. Cabaret, The World Goes Round number from New York New York, Liza with a Z, and on and on. There's no determined, win-at-all-costs, ambition there. There's no Evita there, as she is in the stage musical, anyway.

I've been reading about Eva Peron. Unless I've been reading biased things, the musical isn't very accurate. Of course I don't know, but it seems like the musical Evita is a much worse person than real Evita. Which means (gulp) the Madonna/Parker version is actually closer to the truth. The things that Che accuses her of in the musical seem to be very exaggerated, at best, and just untrue at worst.

Did Webber and Rice wind up just making shit up to make a more interesting story and conflict between Che and Eva?

Liza Minnelli would have been perfect as Eva Peron, but only if Ken Russell directed. The two would have been perfect together. It would have been two hours of watching the glorious excess they both were able to deliver in 1982. But that opportunity slipped away. The score is bombast and nothing but bombast and those two could have matched it, note for note. Contemplating what might have been if they had made the film is the only time I can generate a whit of interest for the goddamned thing, on stage or screen.

Without them? Eh.

I hope we'll get "Chantal Biya: The Musical" one day.

"Don't Cry For me Yaounde, the truth is I never left you..."

[quote]There's no determined, win-at-all-costs, ambition there

This is possibly the stupidest thing I’ve ever seen on DL. Have you not ever seen our friend Liza in...anything?

I thought the ending was weird. She is barely dead on stage left, while they are parading her corpse in the streets on stage right . Thought it would be great if while dying, they had ended it with one final balcony scene. DON'T CRY FOR ME ARGENTINA, curtain drop. A la the fabulous ending in Sunset Blvd.

[quote]There's no determined, win-at-all-costs, ambition there

A determined win-at-all-costs ambition is 80% of what makes Liza Liza. The rest is 10% pathos and 10% sequins.

[quote] Thought it would be great if while dying, they had ended it with one final balcony scene. DON'T CRY FOR ME ARGENTINA, curtain drop. A la the fabulous ending in Sunset Blvd.

Thank God you don't write musicals.

Ackerman does that weird moving back and forth between singing and speaking complained about earlier at r243. How did Harold Prince let her get away with that?

R248 But Liza isn't ruthless. She's more like very aggressively optimistic.

R246 I didn't put that across correctly. I just don't see the type of ambition Evita had. Liza is more sunny, optimistic, everything is gonna work out 'cause it just HAS to! kinda vibe. Like "Mama didn't wanna leave us to go on tour, so he took us with her and it was FANTASTIC" even though it's obviously terrible for children to grow up living in hotels with a drunk, pill infested guardian.

R244 ok, I get you. Could've worked. With Russell.

How was Ken Russell with filming singers performing? I just watched a clip of a blonde Liza doing the song from Lucky Lady and Stanley Donen kept cutting away from her or used weird camera angles.

R254 covered in BAKED BEANS!

No complaints from me about the way he shot Tina Turner in TOMMY.

EVITA would have benefited from Russell's vision.

I think Ann-Margret was the first name to be thrown out there for Ken Russell’s Evita.

[quote]"She could never be played on film by Patti LuPone (not famous enough,) Barbra Streisand (too Jewish,) or Liza Minnelli (too vulgar.)"

And Madonna isn't too vulgar?

My understanding R243, from having read Tim Rice's autobiography years ago, is he heard a radio program about Eva Peron and thought she sounded an ideal subject for a follow up project to JC Superstar. Either the program was based on a book called The Woman with the Whip (!) or he went out and bought that biography. Either way the book, which was very anti the Perons, became his template for Eva's character.

ALW wasn't interested in the subject until HIS next project, a musical based on the Wodehouse character of Jeeves, flopped. He and TR then began working on the album of Evita and the rest is musical and musicals history. So yes, it seems the real Eva, though ambitious, was not as corrupt as the album and musical portrayed her though it still bugs me that Madonna got to sing Another Suitcase ...

R259 yeah Madonna singing that was an unkind cut, to be sure.

Here’s a New York Times review of Loni’s “Evita” when she played it at Papermill in the mid-80’s. Scroll down the page to read the full review.

Before the Vienna premiere c 1981 the understudy’s mobster boyfriend had thugs beat up the actress playing Eva. That was a sticky wicket. She was the Viennese Tonya Harding before Tonya Harding became TONYA HARDING!

r237 Buckley has a long history with Sondheim.

She was cast as the Witch in the first workshop of Into the Woods in San Diego. She wasn't happy in it for some reason and left it. I don't think he was too happy about that. She never played the role on Bway.

They had another conflict years later when she was doing a concert at the Donmare Warehouse. She was doing all these new agey John Tesh sounding versions of his songs (and she was also altering the music a bit.) Sondheim came to see her and went backstage. She asked what did you think? He said well, I wouldn't have brought this up but since you are asking me I have to say I don't like how you are altering my music or something like that.

Buckley got mad and repeated the story to the Sondheim review and I think they were on bad terms for a while. Now she says she loves him.

Never was sure why she quit Into the Woods. He wrote some of the songs with her in mind but then she walked out of it. Bernadette took over the Bway production as a favor to him. Buckley never really got to originate another big musical role in a hit. Dumb move.

R263 Wow. Thanks for that trove of information.

I notice Buckley is very tentative and kind when she speaks of Patti LuPone now. Maybe her personality conflicts of days gone by cost her too so much that she's just nice now.

I love Betty Buckley's voice. Well I did. When I was real young and she was still able to sing. There is only one Eva Peron and it's LuPone.

But for a film, Gaga would be the perfect Eva Peron in every way. Her look and her voice are right for it. There is no acting really required and she poses as well as any of them. Her voice when rested and properly recorded is quite superb. They should have waited another 20 years to make that film.

At one time Ken Russell was keen to cast Kim Wilde. She was probably the youngest one in contention and certainly had the rock quality Tim Rice wanted. But could her voice have done the score?

Has David Pevsner played Eva?

Hmmmmm . . . LuPone & Patinkin seem very cozy with one another.

R268 wow that is fantastic. Never saw that before. The thing is, I don't think the other Evas and Ches were as fully dedicated as Mandy and Patti.

Yes Lady Gaga would be a great Evita, but I don't think the musical has aged well.

I read up on Eva Peron but it was some time ago, I don't remember well. Some reviled her. Others thought she was a saint. The truth is probably somewhere in between.

In a musical production however, you usually get these thing exaggerated and make of it what you will.

how was the TV movie with Miss Dunaway?

Tovah Feldshuh was supposedly one of the other candidates for the role on Broadway. Here Patti and she are together. Judging by this singing it is clear why Patti got the role.

Wasn’t Loni Ackerman one of the Boleyn (sp) sisters .

yes

[quote]Some reviled her. Others thought she was a saint. The truth is probably somewhere in between.

That's so original and profound!

When I saw Patti in concert in February, she did this number from Women on the Verge. I thought it was really good, and rather subtle (for Patti).

Great quality “Evita” highlights (over 60 minutes!) from the 2nd National Tour with Valeri Perri and John Herrera. She sounds like a less strident Loni Zoe Ackerman.

Wow. Patti and Tovah in the same shot. I would not have wanted to be on that set.

Patti is a pain in the ass, but Tovah has her beat in that category. Hands down!

I auditioned in Chicago wearing a Chanel suit!

A Patti story:

I was in LAX and I arrived at the gate and it had been switched to one where you had to take a van to another terminal. I was sort of rushed and asked where the shuttle was but the people at the counter didn't look up. Patti was standing by the counter. I noticed her and said oh I love you. She smiled and then I asked again where's the shuttle. The attendant didn't hear me so Patti yelled HEY WHERE DOES HE GET THE SHUTTLE!!!!!! they all looked up and told me where it was.

A big mouth and projection come in handy sometime.

The Canarsie fishwife came in handy?

That's a great story, r280.

Does ALW discuss or compare Evitas in his new bio?

Compare Evitas?

There is only Elaine Paige!

It's dull and dreary. Chicago and Mamma Mia were much more fun, so that's why they were more successful.

Lea Salonga

Is that be Mama June at R138?

[quote]I thought the ending was weird. She is barely dead on stage left, while they are parading her corpse in the streets on stage right . Thought it would be great if while dying, they had ended it with one final balcony scene. DON'T CRY FOR ME ARGENTINA, curtain drop. A la the fabulous ending in Sunset Blvd.

Interesting idea, because you're right. It's hard in any event to end a musical with a death. She died not long after Peron's second election. They could have done a balcony scene and ended it on that, incorporating the montage. You're right... Sunset ends with a mad woman who's murdered and yet it still manages a big finish.

Sorry to bump these semi-old threads, but i somehow missed them the first time around and they're up my alley.

[quote]My understanding [R243], from having read Tim Rice's autobiography years ago, is he heard a radio program about Eva Peron and thought she sounded an ideal subject for a follow up project to JC Superstar. Either the program was based on a book called The Woman with the Whip (!) or he went out and bought that biography. Either way the book, which was very anti the Perons, became his template for Eva's character.

You're half-right. Rice heard the tail-end of a radio program about her, which caused him to seek out more info. However, his search led him to the 1972 documentary, THE QUEEN OF HEARTS, which he used as inspiration. The documentary is rather fair to her, interviewing relatives, friends, former teachers, etc. but it doesn't romanticize her actions, either. It's a myth that Rice used Mary Main's THE WOMAN WITH THE WHIP. Maryssa Navarro, who wrote EVITA: THE REAL LIFE OF EVA PERON (and who obviously is infatuated by the woman) stated this as fact in her book, which leads to people like R259 to believe it. The so-called Evitistas (i.e., people who worship Evita but are not necessarily historians) detest the musical, because it's critical of her and doesn't portray her as a saint.

[quote]So yes, it seems the real Eva, though ambitious, was not as corrupt as the album and musical portrayed her though it still bugs me that Madonna got to sing Another Suitcase ...

I've studied the woman for over 20 years and I gotta say the musical is pretty accurate. She did run away at 15 to seek fame and fortune in the bit city. She did utilize the casting couch and had a string of influential lovers to become a successful model and film/radio actress. She did seek out Peron at the charity concert and seduced him. She did kick out his teenage mistress. She was reviled by the Army and the Aristocracy for not staying in her place. She did join Peron on the campaign trail and gave fiery speeches against the oligarchs. She did make a conscious effort to dress better and more expensively than the upper class women. She did go on a tour of Europe that was a mixed bag. She did get back at the society women for not allowing her to be the honorary president of their charity, as was customary. She did establish a foundation that forced people to contribute or else (i.e., racket) and did not keep any financial records. She and Peron's massive spending and mismanagement eventually bankrupted Argentina, a country which had been on the rise to be a superpower. The Perons eventually controlled all the media and did imprison/torture opponents. In short, yes, she was corrupt! The musical doesn't even touch the surface.

I saw Nancy Opel in the role during a high school field trip. We studied her life and the score before going, which was great help in understanding the show. My favorite line was "She won't help the hungry once a month at your tombolas She'll simply take control as you disappear"

It was so exciting to hear tombolas and know what they were and that word has stuck with me all this time.

You won’t CAAAAAAAAARE if they love you it’s been done beFORRRRE!!!

- for the cheap seats

Thank you for one of the better posts I've read on DL in a while, r289. I've been reading a lot of books about Evita lately, but I wasn't aware that it was a myth Woman With A Whip was NOT the inspiration for the musical. BTW, that is by far the worst book about her I've ever read.

Forget Loni Ackerman!

How would Loni Anderson have tackled the role of Evita?

I saw the 2012 revival. Have never been so disappointed in a show my whole life. The lead actress had absolutely no charisma or physical presence and her voice was completely unmemorable. I'm not a huge fan of Ricki Martin but I think he did a credible job.

R293 Loni in LA. Patti is the best but Loni isn’t bad.

[quote The so-called Evitistas (i.e., people who worship Evita but are not necessarily historians) detest the musical, because it's critical of her and doesn't portray her as a saint.]

Or maybe it's because they have some musical education and taste.

There are many reasons to detest, disdain, dismiss, etc., this musical.

The chorus boy in Loni's production misses the beats on putting the fur on her shoulders. He's too early. It should be on "dressed up".

I think the ending is brilliant.

Money was raised to build a tomb, a monument to Evita. Only the pedestal was completed. And Evita's body disappeared for 17 years.

It's interesting that parts of the original concept album had more of a "Judy Collins" orchestration feel than what came later. I guess they were still working in that early 1970s sound.

[quote]I think the ending is brilliant.

Same here. I like how the show begins with her funeral and ends with her death. And that tidbit at the end by Che was a bit spooky, especially coupled with the eerie music.

[quote]The chorus boy in Loni's production misses the beats on putting the fur on her shoulders. He's too early. It should be on "dressed up".

R297 - the Maryest Mary that ever Mary'ed.

Not as good as Brahms' violin concerto.

[quote]I searched Youtube for community theatre productions of "Evita" and came across one from a high school in Canada. I watched for several minutes and thought to link it here for some laughs. But then I changed my mind because it wouldn't be very nice to these kids who obviously had worked hard. I guess maybe I DON'T have a cold dead heart. I only mention this because of some interesting casting. I am sure their theatre arts teacher had the brilliant idea to cast Che with four (!?!) people, two of them women.

I know what production you're talking about! In fact, I commented on it. I gave them props for the orchestra/orchestrations, and the choreography was more imaginative than the dreadful 2012 revival. The voices were a bit off, but it is high school so I gave them a pass. Overall, I was very impressed with it. They really worked hard on it.

As for the four Che's, I figured they were supposed to represent the students who took to the streets to protest the Peronist regime after the economy tanked and newspapers were being silenced. One of the students was interviewed in 1996 for A&E's Biography and he described the atmosphere and talked about being tortured in prison.

Eden Espinosa's Evita seems like a perfect idea. Why didn't they put her in the Broadway revival?

[quote]Eden Espinosa's Evita seems like a perfect idea. Why didn't they put her in the Broadway revival?

Because the other girl was a real Latina. I remember that being a huge component of the PR for that revival. "This time we've got a real Latina playing the role." Even though she's a mediocre singer and has no stage presence.

Thanks R289 for clearing all my misinformation up! I must have muddled up what I read in Rice's autobiography with something I heard elsewhere re the Woman with the Whip. It was a long time ago. Did her foundation do much good or was it as arbitrary as the musical makes it appear? And with your knowledge of her (real) life, do you grudgingly admire the woman or think she has few if any good points about her? Someone who she could be compared with is Agrippina from the Julio-Claudian family. Yes, she likely connived and even killed her way to a position of power but at that time women had no other real options. And to an extent, it was get them before they get you. So I wonder if the times and culture Eva Peron operated in contributed to some degree to her less savory actions.

I'm a sort-of of fan of the musical - like some songs, am left cold by others but I do find her an intriguing character. When it comes to ALW and Mr Rice, I love Superstar, like Evita and don't care for anything else.

Argentines aren't Latinos like you're thinking. Like the US, Argentina received an influx of European immigrants at the turn of the 20th century. 86% of the population is of ethnic European descent. The most common ethnic groups are Italian and Spanish (including Galicians and Basques). Therefore, Argentines are mainly caucasian. They barely have a mestizo/Indian population. Blacks are practically nonexistent. So you can't compare Argentina to other Latin American countries. Eva Duarte was of Basque descent. Juan Peron(i) was Italian. They were white to all intents and purposes.

How would Gypsy be different if Sondheim had been able to write all the music? Would a Send In The Clowns type song have replaced Little Lamb? Would Ethel have sung "Children Will Listen"? Herbie sing "Move On"?

When they cast Elena Roger, they were touting the fact that she was Argentinean, not Latina.

OMG - she is only 5 foot nothing? That Argentine is tiny.

Evita has a great score, but it's a dead, cold show which relies on a flashy production/performances because there is no love story propelling it.

It's a successful show based on material which does not lend itself to musicalization, in my opinion.

EVITA is a cautionary tale told via Brechtian staging. It's not meant to be warm and cozy. And there is a love story of sorts -- wealthy, Argentine strongman and poor, illegitimate actress join forces to woo the masses and fight the rich/military! A marriage of convenience.

Yes, r312. "A marriage of convenience" is NOT a love story, nor does it propel the story in any way. "Evita" is a musical diatribe, not unlike how you otherwise describe it.

I did not like the production I saw but it may have just been bad seats.

EVITA is overrated and is a dry, over-cautious prototype for the superior ELISABETH, which for some reason the English-speaking world has slept-on (yet it is a beloved and favorite musical of audiences in Asia & W. Europe).

There is neither sweeping romance nor any grandeur in EVITA, which is a problem for an historical epic.

Sorry if someone else mentioned it, but I didn't read the whole thread, if Madonna had not made Evita, I think it would have been the perfect vehicle for Lady Gaga.

R316 But Eva Peron had sex appeal.

[quote]Speaking of lyrics, the double us of "state" in "Oh What A Circus" irks me -

[quote]"But the star has gone, the glamor's worn thin/That's a pretty bad state for a state to be in."

You do realize he's making a pun, using both meanings of 'state' (i.e., a country and a condition of being)?

Frankly, I think the lyrics in EVITA are pretty good. The characters actually sound like real people. My favorite line is "Franco's reign in Spain," I thought that was clever. (I have a soft spot for MY FAIR LADY.) I guess to the Sondheimites, anything that doesn't sound like ornate poetry is bad. IMO, Sondheim is too clever for his own good sometimes. His characters, even the lowest of the low, all sound like wordsmiths and the (internal) rhyming seems forced at times. I do enjoy his shows, but I find that I can't get heavily invested in the characters because the fancy lyrics seem to take precedence.

Furthermore, one thing I like about EVITA Is that it doesn't have people singing over each other. Why has that become the norm in the past 35 years or so? I find it annoying, because it makes it very difficult to follow along.

I saw it several times. Patty Lupone was he best. Elena Roger was like singing white bread. Mandy Patinkin, and to some degree Antonio Banderas had a sneer and disdain for Evita yet were believable as men who loved her. Ricky Martin played Che like a besotted teenager and smiled throughout his performance like a High School production with his parents in the audience. But of course I'd fuck him

[quote]Mandy Patinkin, and to some degree Antonio Banderas had a sneer and disdain for Evita yet were believable as men who loved her.

But Che hates Evita.

In the Ricky Martin production they actually put out press releases saying he would not be playing Che but instead a general character called "the voice of the people" (even though they still called him che in the Playbill)

It was basically an excuse for Martin not to be able to act the role. Instead he sort of stood there like Vanna White pointing at the action and saying "now this happened."

[quote] there is no love story propelling it.

SO

WHAT?

There is no reason a musical has to be a drippy love story. Gypsy ain't a love story. Sweeney Todd ain't a love story. Cats ain't a love story. Many of the most beloved and most successful musicals of all time have nothing to do with love.