Eldergays, tell us about Plato's Retreat

It looks dreadful.

Uh... why would gays go to Plato’s retreat? You do know this was the height of the bathhouse era, yes?

The location was the recently closed Continental Baths, a gay bath house with a lounge, where Better Midler kicked her career into high gear performing with her accompanist Barry Manilow.

when i was in my bi phase, I went to a place in Austin in the late 90s, called PLATO'S PLAYHOUSE. It was like a straight bathhouse, with rooms with mats on the floor for fucking. I fucked a couple women in a group, about 10-15 other guys taking turns with them. It was hot watching the guys go at it, which is how I was able to stay hard. The women were so loose I couldn't feel a damn thing.

R4, never realize there were places like that for straight people and that women would do that

I watched a doc about this place. Hilarious. There was a Pervy old husband and wife reminiscing. Apparently there was a smorgasbord. I mean, an actual food one. Yeah they didn't want single guys coming in, and there was also some protocol in place to keep singles guys from coming in w hookers.

Didn't anyone here watch Swingtown, with Grant Show?? And they go to the PENDULUM Club? Apparently straight ppl did go to places like this!!

[quote] Apparently there was a smorgasbord. I mean, an actual food one.

Lol

R5 if i recall correctly, i must have gone on one of the nights they allowed single men in. The ratio of men to women was like 10:1. The women who were there to get gangbanged were encouraged by their cuck husbands.

^^^^thats why they didn't let single guys in. Not sure if single women were allowed in.

R10 single women were always allowed in, and for free. Single men had to pay like $50.

I thought Plato was a homo why was it called Plato's Retreat?

R12 Probably because of his (and Socrates') views on free will.

I don't think the owner had any clue about Plato's sexuality. I think he just thought the name was "exotic".

Apparently this was a hangout for Republican lowlife John Bolton.

Bolton? Srsly? Tell us more! He does look the part

John Bolton. Plato's Retreat swinger.

[quote]May 11-LOS ANGELES - Court records concerning the divorce of John R. Bolton, the Bush administration's nominee to become the next ambassador to the United Nations, show his first wife fled the couple's marital home when he was traveling abroad in mid-August 1982. The records further show that she took most of the couple's furniture. Corroborated allegations that Mr. Bolton's first wife, Christina Bolton, was forced to engage in group sex have not been refuted by the State Department despite inquires posed by Hustler magazine publisher Larry Flynt concerning the allegations. Mr. Flynt has obtained information from numerous sources that Mr. Bolton participated in paid visits to Plato's Retreat, the popular swingers club that operated in New York City in the late 1970s and early 1980s.

Thank you R17. Howd I miss that?!

I never bothered. I was too busy enjoying time in Alcibiades' Lap.

The owner called it "Plato's Retreat" because ancient Greece has a general reputation for anything-goes hedonism (satyrs chasing nymphs?) and Plato was probably the only famous ancient Greek person he could think of. Plato's dialogues are actually somewhat sex-phobic; when they deal with sex they're all about sublimating physical desires into loftier intellectual urges, and in *The Laws* a character argues for making same-sex relations illegal (which obviously would be a minority opinion in ancient Athens). I guess he could have called it "Bacchus' Retreat," but that would speak more to drinking than to sex. Aphrodite's Retreat? Eros' Retreat? Let's help him out retroactively.

After Plato's Retreat closed up shop, someone reopened the space for a while as a gay bath house. I went then. I wanted to see the famous space.

At that point, as a sex club, it was a non-starter. Dirty. Run down. Worn out. It would have required a complete renovation, but AIDS was on the horizon.

Still, it was interesting to poke around the edges. So to speak.

Plato’s retreat commercial, with a weak disco beat!

Is that where you went to find a Platonic relationship?

Wow he people in the clip are probably now in there 70s or dead. At least those still living might have some fun memories of a very different time

Either OP wants to see AMERICAN SWING, or just wants to talk about it again as the Pop Culture Name-Dropping Troll.

The documentary will give you the most insight.

^thats the one with gramps & granny reminiscing.

The documentary said the place had upholstered couches and pillows that were constantly reinfected with crabs.

I work with a black woman who is into the swinging thing. She said single men are not allowed into the clubs but women are. Even when there us a cover. I guess the men don't want the competition.

The men don’t want a sausage fest. They also don’t want all the riff raff. A sex club is 1000x more likely to attract men than women; the “average woman off the street” would balk 99% of the time, while you’d have a hard time keeping every homeless dude, male drug addict and dangerous male nutcase out. So weeding out some of the less desirable single men with a hefty cover charge while encouraging women to enter for free is just good business sense.

Skeevy married guys who read too many of "those" magazines, and their resigned/fearful wives.

No mention of the cheesy disco song about Plato's Retreat? It's bad, but the mid part of the song is kinda funky and redeems it a bit.

I used to go there all the time. A lot! I could sell my gently used clothes, shoes, and accessories, and buy some as well!

I remember the scene from "Son of Sam" when John Leguizamo goes there with Mira Sorvino and she gets surprise anal.

[quote]I work with a [bold]black[/bold] woman who is into the swinging thing.

Because, relevance.

Not R28, but I admit that when I think of swingers, I'm usually picturing flabby white middle aged people. Maybe it's because that's mostly what I've encountered IRL. I was pretty familiar with the sex club scene in Berlin when I lived there and everything was more or less the same there as described in this thread. Except for the lack of disco music, alas.

One of my funniest memories of Plato's is riding the subway to work one morning after, and spotting a couple I had partied with the previous night; we exchanged "good mornings," and went our separate ways.

The place wasn't half bad: there was a swimming pool (and the lifeguard's sister was a giant in the entertainment business); a disco dance floor; the aforementioned buffet which I never touched; etc. I don't recall their having a liquor license.

The clientele were clean, upscale and for the most part attractive and fit; management weeded out the undesirables at the door and, yes, single men were not admitted. Celebrities would go to ogle and be seen, but usually remained clothed. Although nudity was the dress code, most would wear a towel when walking around during non-sexual socializing and no one sat bare-assed on the furniture. I would estimate that 20% of the attendees on any given night were there only for the dancing and the aura of naughtiness, never indulging in any sexual activity. There was a large glass enclosed orgy room where most of the sex took place, as well as semi-private rooms for the more discrete, but if the mood hit you outside those areas say, poolside,...well, that's what the place was for.

I met a lot of nice people there, some of whom would host parties in their homes. I even went to a couple's daughter's wedding (of course the circumstances of our meeting was kept secret). Actually, only one or two of my pre-Plato's friends knew that I was into that scene.

Wonder how many regulars of Plato's contracted AIDS there. Serious question; this was the very beginning of the virus taking hold.

Mickey Mouse's dog is a swinger?

Well, the place was shut down by the authorities because of AIDS -- like the gay bathhouses.

They banned single men and offered free entrance to single women for the same reason that bars and clubs offer free "Ladies Nights."

It's the same reason PLAYGIRL folded while PLAYBOY and its copycats proliferate.

It's the same reason there are more female prostitutes and porn stars who make more money than male whores.

It's the same reason female models make more than male models.

It's the same reason there are more gay-for-pay porn stars than straight-for-pay ones.

The supply and demand from women is LOW, whereas the supply and demand from men is OVERWHELMING.

Biologically and socially, women have lower sex drives and don't want promiscuous hookups whereas men have 60-80 times more testosterone and are always DTF.

So the door policies have to create some balance.

In "Tales of the City" Brian goes to a mixed bathhouse and isn't accompanied by a woman. And in that scene where he tries to have sex with the woman, she thinks he's gay. Were there mixed bathhouses in San Francisco that men didn't need to be coupled with a woman, or was that just based on something Maupin made up?

I love you R38!

[quote]It's the same reason PLAYGIRL folded while PLAYBOY and its copycats proliferate.

Are you posting from 2002?

"Biologically and socially, women have lower sex drives and don't want promiscuous hookups whereas men have 60-80 times more testosterone and are always DTF. "

We can't actually measure biological sex drives, in a society where boys and girls are still brought up with differing attitudes towards sex. Most young men are still told that fucking around them makes them manly and enviable, while young women are told that only bad girls fuck around and everyone despises a slut, if they aren't told to be a virgin on their wedding night or else. I expect we'd see somewhat different statistics in a society with sexual freedom or parity, although maybe not completely different.

Bump

Wow

[quote] never realize there were places like that for straight people and that women would do that

The things you have to do to keep happy the Mayor of San Francisco

I guess I have to do all the heavy lifting around here...

Forty-seven posts and NOT A PEEP about the fact that Plato's Retreat West ultimately became The Hollywood Spa on Ivar which I'm certain DataLounger's frequented

Part I

The ancient Greeks were into social order and self-discipline. It was the Romans who were known for raping anything that moved.

r38 No.

R36 I’d love to hear if you went to any other of those wild gay bars and clubs in nyc at that time. I was there too but only got to a few, went more to ones in queens.

Ever make it to studio 54?

R31 That link you posted doesn't work.

I thought it was a fairly good disco song but the mid funky part you liked I thought was awful. Sounds like somebody having a sneezing fit.

things I've learned in this thread;

fraus are indeed frigid and the purveyors of high moral conservatism but completely ignorant of the world around them and attempt go guess how str8 sex clubs work, despite being around for centuries upon centuries...

oh, if only they knew how misguided that course in women's studies 101 was... radical feminism did have its finer points but most of it was the same pseudo religious social panics, using their disturbed, paperback novel and broomstick, fantasies to fill in the blanks.

There was an LA "co-sexual" bathhouse in the '80s called Healthworks. It was on Hyperion not far from MAC's. Kind of scuzzy.

r55 several groups protested for entry into LA's gay sex clubs and bath houses in the 90s and eventually granted entry. I believe the intention was in trying to get them shutdown through the alleged sex discrimination, so they never really went in high numbers. Instead one would find the odd ftm that felt more comfortable after they did... and they were largely respectful.

However, that would change a decade later when the first college aged non-binaries came on the scene in motorcycle and leather bar, there was no problem with entry save for disrespect of fashion codes but then proceeded to protest the bar culture and even sue.. leading to many abandoning those clubs that started adding non-pda clauses to their rules. (In another case, at the same time, they were also shutting down trans-exclusive for a handful of "passing" schools and coaches. Neither here nor there, just an odd little coincidence.)

I had a boyfriend back in the 70s who owned an A-Frame up on Sunset Plaza drive. It was used as a swing party. They were very strict about couples only. They screened everyone and most of them were between 30-40 years old. He hired a guy to run it and he made a fortune every month. The guy he hired got murdered. He turned out to be an FBI drug informant the three of the men who he turned in got out of prison and kidnapped him and beat him half to death and buried him alive in the desert. They also kidnapped his girlfriend and she convinced them that she had a lot of money and to take her to the bank. She got help at the bank. I went up there one time and we had drinks at the bar. I asked one of the women why she was a swinger and she said that it was better to go to the parties and have him run around behind her back. I think most of the women just went along with it for their husbands.

^wow!

Dionna was such a bitch that night we had to leave early, but luckily we escaped the Son of Sam.

R59 I was around at the time of the Son of Sam. But what are you talking about, Son of Sam never went to Plato's retreat. No date.

Le Trapeze was an NYC swingers club that operated until around 10 years ago. It was on a quiet block just east of Madison Square, and they too had a buffet.

R44

Everything you said, and women have to worry about pregnancy.

R21 I did the same thing...... i was so curious to see the inside. My impressions were the same. It was empty when I went