Hole

I'm a huge admirer of Celebrity Skin. "Heaven Tonight" is like a classic Cheap Trick song. "Northern Star" is gorgeous. Malibu, Cherry, Awful and the title track are all brilliant songs.

I also love Courtney's later single "Hold onto me."

The demo for Pacific Coast Highway is much better than the produced song that was released on the Nobody's Daughter album.

Pacific Coast Highway demo version

I saw them play at Roseland in New York and at Lollapalooza

I really like “America’s Sweetheart” even though Courtney refers to it as “le disastre.”

“Nobody’s Daughter” is pretty awful. The producer should be shot for burying Courtney’s voice in the mix.

I saw them play while visiting a friend in Seattle, and crowd-surfed all the way up to the stage during "Use Once and Destroy" (linked). It was a wild night. I almost lost a shoe. At one point, someone tossed a flannel shirt up on stage. Courtney picked it up, tossed it back after a song and growled, "You guys, Grunge is dead."

One of the most vivid memories I have of being at a Hole concert in 1994 is a sea of barret-wearing kinderwhore teenage girls in a tame pseudo mosh pit / conga line singing the words to Miss World.

Kristen Pfaff's death and the timing of it was shocking

I went to a reading of Patty Schemel's bio. After being fired from the band during the recording of Celebrity Skin (the producer did everything to discredit her and to undermine her work) Patty ended up a homeless crackhead on Skid Row giving blow jobs for money.

^ reading for

Patty Schemel wrote that she was in MacArthur Park and a door opened up and she saw a drum set in a church. She then remembered that she used to play the drums.

Celebrity Skin had quite a few really good songs.

Her video for Mono was pretty fun. She said she had a good time making fun of her own image.

Has anyone here actually spent time with Courtney? She strikes me as very interesting, intelligent, offbeat, even kind of sweet, but then I wonder if a lot of the nasty shit I've heard about her is true and if she's capable of doing massive damage. Obviously she has mellowed with age and wealth, and she was on copious amounts of drugs for a long time (which would skew anyone's behaviour), but what is she really like? She's fascinated me for years. Can't play guitar worth a damn but she was a great rock star and a terrific interviewee.

When you get what you want, then you never want it again.

If you think Courtney can't play guitar you've never seen her play live and/or don't know anything about guitars.

R16, I play drums and guitar. Don't patronize me, thanks. She's lousy.

R14/17, please post videos of your superior guitar playing!

First, please post a video of Courtney shredding like a champ on her guitar that proves me wrong. Strumming some basic rhythm chords while your sound is turned right down--which is what goes on in her live shows-- does not make one a decent guitar player at ALL. Eric could play very well and did most of the work.

Love Hole. Got me through a really bad time. But I always thought Billy from Smashing Pumpkins probably wrote most of her stuff. Songs sound similar and they were besties at the time.

I’m curious to know if anyone can name a male rock musician contemporary of Courtney, with her level of fame and success, who receives the type of criticisms that she does.

For example, is it known that someone else wrote all of Stone Temple Pilots’ songs? It is known that Gavin Rossdale of Bush can’t play guitar?

It doesn’t excuse anything but even the biggest Courtney hater knows that she had a shitty childhood. Hell, her dad is on film saying that she killed her husband.

r20 Me too, I love them so much, even Nobody's Daughter. Samantha is great, PCH, Loser Dust, Someone's Else's bed. I don't even want to get involved with this thread because I know it will piss me off. She was far superior to her hubby and her songs are so raw and great. She's probably an asshole in real life so I'd never want to meet her, but goddamn I love her music.

Your youth is gone, it's turned to rust, it's all covered in loser dust...

She was great when she played at the Music Box in Hollywood on her last album tour. And also when she sang with Linda Perry. A lot of the songs from Nobody's Daughter came from those sessions.

Courtney Love during the Linda Perry days - with a visit to Carrie Fisher's house - in the documentary "The Return of Courtney Love"

She's one of few people whose indiscretions and controversies get a pass, because I like Hole's music. Of course, 'Celebrity Skin' is great because of producer Billy Corrigan.

And she may have stolen a few of Kurt Cobain's unrecorded songs, but as his widow, they're kind of hers, right?

Janis Joplin didn't write any of her songs, so obviously she's just another no talent puppet.

Janis also didn't FALSELY CLAIM to have written those songs, unlike Courtney, so you're just another no-talent poopette!

Proof that Courtney stole songs? Link?

I’ll wait.

I like Courtney’s persona (I was a punk/goth) and Hole had a great album. I thought she was a functional rhythem guitarist. Part of grunge/punk was aboutnot being an Eddie Van Halen, endless and useless riffing. Guitar style rock is dead. She should try some shimmery goth stuff.

R8 More about circumstances surrounding Kristen Pfaff's suspicious heroin overdose:

R32 here's the link

"I’ll wait. "

Please do, irritable gnat. I was DEFENDING Courtney, you rabid freak. STFU.

Read this again until your cement-head comprehends. Read it ALOUD, mouth breather.

"And she may have stolen a few of Kurt Cobain's unrecorded songs, but as his widow, they're kind of hers, right? "

This link will keep you busy:

Like Nevermind, Live Through This was incredibly prescient, and on the nose. It really was the soundtrack to that time, and the look of so many girls in New York City adopted Courtney's style and look.

Saw them live for the Celebrity Skin tour.

She was fabulous and so was the band. At the end she climbed one of the light poles (it was an ampitheater), peeled off her panties and threw it into the crowd.

some reddit blather on Kurt having written Hole songs:

I remember women who you wouldn't typically think of as Hole fans adding some Courtney elements into their corporate wardrobe, like primary colored barrettes in their hair or vintage dresses with boots.

And in '80s college, so many women dressing up like Cyndi Lauper and Madonna!

My cousin lived on the same dorm floor as Kristen in Boston in the mid 80s, said she was a really warm person but was homesick and ended up returning home after freshman year.

Debbie Harry, Courtney and Robbie Nevil in 1987

R41, Cripes! CL looks like she was just out fetching sticks. The incredible amount of surgery she has undergone to change her features is astonishing. No wonder she changed herself into a Hollywood clone after she had Kurt kil--er, after Kurt killed himself.

I'm sure all the hard drugs helped her get those great bones out from her puffy teenage face.

Oh my, R41, I don't know I ever realized before watching that clip that what she wanted was to be a Madonna clone. She wanted to be the punk rock/grunge version of Madonna. I don't know how I've never seen it until now, and I actually was at the VMA show when Courtney threw a compact, or whatever it was, at Madonna while she was being interviewed. Huh.

Yes!

No “presenting” jokes?

Newscasters and entertainment show hosts were never comfortable saying the band name. I remember Mary Hart quickly rushing through "Courtney Love and her band Hole..."

It was her early work that got to me, my favorite is Pretty on the Inside. Saw them in '91 in Philly, I still have their early vinyl 45's and albums.

I've seen them two or three times. "Live Through This" still knocks after all this time. Some of their pre-LTT stuff is pretty good. Very raw.

Baby, there is a room full of death and whores and truth

And I am waiting in that room

And I am sorry I did that for you

It's all whores, it's all pain

It's all disease, man, it's all the same

Courtney is no doubt a manipulator of the highest order, but I watched a documentary (was it BTL?) about her and specifically her parents, and all I can say is monsters aren't born, they are made.....and Courtney's parents should have both been put in jail for their abuse/neglect years ago.

I love Live Through This and Celebrity Skin.....anything else has been hit or miss for me.

And she did a great job in Larry Flynt.

I was at this show. She changed the lyrics to "Petals" to "I miss the sweet GAY boys in the summer of their youth..."

r45 I remember watching this...poor Courtney...you could feel how uncomfortable she was. I think she felt outclassed by Madonna but she shouldn't have

Neither friend or foe, I've just never paid any attention to Love, but I'm fascinated by one tidbit of trivia about her. When she was a teen, she moved to Liverpool for a year or so just because of her obsession with the indie bands there, primarily Echo and the Bunnymen and Teardrops Explode. I find it both admirable and crazy. She ended up connecting with Cope (living in his house for a bit before being chucked out) and basically being an uberfan/groupie of both bands.

She credited Ian McCulloch and Julian Cope for teaching all she knows about being a frontman (woman) of a rock band and songwriting. She also credited Bunnyman Will Sergeant for teaching her guitar. Apparently McCulloch pretty much ignored her but feels (unsurprisingly if you know of Mac's legendary ego issues) he was the primary object of her obsession but she had to settle for Cope and everyone else on the scene. She's had said both good and bad things about Mac over the years.

Tastes change, I don't know if she feels the same way now--my favorite albums twenty years ago certainly aren't my favorites now. But in 1995, she listed two Nirvana albums in her top 10 favorites of all time, but selected the Bunnymen's Heaven Up Here as #1.

Bob Dylan via Courtney Love

r52 I love Petals! Still one of my favorites of hers. She's the grace of this world/she's too pure/for the likes of this world/this world is a whore.

Hole is one of the best bands ever. Celebrity Skin is a masterpiece. American Sweetheart demo version was amazing, don't know why the final product sounds so different and much less potent. Nobody's Daughter has some great tracks (Samantha is great). And of course the grunge early stuff is classic. I hope Courtney releases another album, solo or with Hole.

I'm a fan of their first album PRETTY ON THE INSIDE. It was produced by Kim Gordon and has her arty/noisy approach all over it. Sounds like none of the other later stuff.

How come she never gets any radio play? I mean on classic or alt rock stations.

Or even Spotify

I have a Hole station on my Pandora, I love it.

Unless it's being presented, I have no interest in this thread title.

R56 Tear the petals off of me!

LOVE that song.

She really was always obsessed with Madonna, mentioning her frequently in the press. This is her in a Vanity Fair profile circa 2011:

[quote] “Ever since I was a little girl,” she said, “I wanted to be famous, because I thought, in the light, they’ll be fair to me. I prayed to God I could grow up and be famous because then they’ll be fair to me. Fair to me? Ha.

“And then it turned out my calling was to be this provocateur. I wrote this song once called ‘Asking for It.’ ‘Was she asking for it? Was she asking nice? Did she ask you for it? Did she ask you twice?’ I was playing with this trope of the vengeful female. [bold] I thought, like Madonna, I could change my persona with my look.[/bold] But what I didn’t understand—I didn’t get the brief on this—is they’ll never let you live it down.”

I met Courtney Love at a vast dinner party at Chatsworth House. Odd place to meet her.

Murderess!

R65 You spelled Goddess wrong!

How could you not love her? She's just such an amazing complex woman.

R58 is right, her best work is the first album, before she met Kurt, Teenage Whore is great. There's just something about a woman screaming obscenities to the sound of a thousand chainsaws taking down a quonset hut. That's what drew me to them the first time I heard them, and why Babes in Toyland is another of my favorites. Kat Bjelland is the ultimate scream and feedback queen, but I like them both a lot.

I'm always hoping she'll finally enjoy a genuine comeback. I'm not sure what would do that for her. Hard to get attention for that type of music these days, and at her age, besides. A Hole retrospective is one thing, but maybe another great film role would be better.

Love the story on WWHL when Drew Barrymore said that she and Courtney were at a Green Day concert in the 90s. When they went backstage, security asked them if they had backstage passes. Courtney said, "My face is my backstage pass.'

I love Courtney and Hole but I've always been a bit conflicted because the bitch had her husband killed. If you think different then you are an idiot.

If you think that, why do you still "lover" her? Duh

Of all the great songs on Live Through This, my least favorite is Doll Parts. I'm surprised that was such a big hit.

Demo of "Dying" from Celebrity Skin

I knew Kurts grandfather.and he always thought Courtney killed him. Im not sure because there was so many suicides on both sides of the family. I think two of the grandfathers brothers killed themselves and some on Kurts moms side. I also think Kurt wrote a lot of her later songs for her

Courtney didn't kill Kurt. She's an Illuminati deputy and Kurt was taken out by mandarins in Pope John Paul II's Vatican.

"Please do, irritable gnat."

LOL

Courtney on "Conversations from the Edge" with Carrie Fisher

R78. " That certain stripe of male director that wants to have that whole psychic sexual relationship with you. I mean, I admire the starlets and the ingenues that can go through five movies a year pretending to have like Daddy sex relationships with each of these guys."

I'm sure Patty Scheme lovedhearing Courtney telling Carrie Fisher that she was a crackhead living in a tent downtown

Some good Pretty on the Inside era Courtney footage

R73, funny I came here to say just about the opposite. (Maybe because Hole was a little but before my time but Doll Parts was the only Hole song they ever seemed to play in the radio in the late 90's.) If any of their other work is even REMOTELY as good as that song (for me), I might consider listening to the rest of that album some day!

r82 Listen to "Celebrity Skin" it's such a gorgeous album, I love the watery themes. Specifically "Boys on the Radio" and "Malibu". All the songs are great though, honestly, "Petals", "Dying"...It's just a really fucking great piece of work and it holds up over 20 years later. I also love "Nobody's Daughter" and "America's Sweetheart" but I think thematically CS is better put together.

Who would have thought with all the drugs, hard livin' and crap she's put her body through, that she would come out looking BETTER than Madonna?

Granted she has a different face, but she looks great (Saint Laurent show, 2018):

[quote]And she did a great job in Larry Flynt.

She was brilliant. Deserved at least an Oscar nomination.

her original face was quite tragic tho. she looked like a potato.

As fuckin weird as those P.I. tapes are, and as fucking batshit as she may be, the anti-Courtney/Courtney Is A Murderer sentiment/Crusade always struck me as more Yoko Ono bullshit, just more MRA neckbeard unfuckable misogynist fantasy. The guy was a serially depressed junkie who had attempted to kill himself numerous times and fetishized obliviation in his work. For fuck's sake, he was being wheeled onto the stage for most of his final shows, something even Shane MacGowan hasn't had to resort to until fairly recently, at age 60, with a 140 year old liver.

Bump for fans to express their admiration

[quote] Courtney Love

Killer, killer, chicken dinner.

"Hold on to me/oh babe hold on tight/and we'll just see which one of us gets out alive.." She's pissed that pussy killed himself cause he couldn't handle fame... call a WAH-bumlance for poor Kurt.

[quote]the anti-Courtney/Courtney Is A Murderer sentiment/Crusade always struck me as more Yoko Ono bullshit, just more MRA neckbeard unfuckable misogynist fantasy

Couldn’t agree more! And it’s not all MRA types IMO; the girls who squealed over Kurt are grown now but still pissed off that he married her (and not them, of course).

That bitch is a real Cunt-“Hole”.

Courtney is smart to tour as Hole, instead of as a solo artist.

Does she still hang around with that big tall blonde who looks like a man and dresses up in vintage clothing, Lisa Thorne I think she’s called?

Liza Thorn

They should just do a greatest hits tour, and not wait for a new album and the publicity machine behind that.

Courtney Love's mom, Linda Carroll - who moved to New Zealand and left Courtney behind when she was eight - giving parental advice.

Courtney is always great to see live, but it is much better seeing her with Hole.

What's her relationship with Frances Bean like?

Courtney is one of the few 90s singers who can still come through life.

I love Courtney she’s tough as nails.

Such a tough and extreme persona, much more pure and emotional than Madonna. She really lived it, went through hell and oblivion then survived, leaving the shiny tears behind.

Are you there when I'm all alone? Do you even know why I am suffering? are you down to your bones? are you down to your bones?

Murderer!

I didn't even know she was in a recent movie about the Menendez brothers. And WOW, she's had even more work done!

I'd rather see Hole play live then another Courtney solo tour.

How many fucking noses has she had? I thought she looked best during the era when she was completely losing it and always in court and letting strangers suck her tits on the street.

A friend of mine still has a scar on her forehead from a Hole show in high school during which CLove crowd surfed and rammed my friend's head with a stiletto.

She looks better than Vadge so there's that.

she will play in Italy this summer with 1500 musicians. Remember the Rockin'1000 who played Foo Fighters? The same, but with Courtney singing live.

I used to be obsessed with Courtney Love, around the year 2000 (?). I ordered the concert video where she went topless off Ebay. I still like the music of Hole. I've seen Courtney play live at music festivals and each time she was an asshole to the crowd in one way or another. I cant believe she's still alive at all.

You wonder why she just doesn't get back to writing music with Billy Corgan or whoever and make another Celebrity Skin.

Courtney has Carly Simon's face from a decade or so ago.

Apparently there are only a few end results for these procedures.

[quote]She really lived it, went through hell and oblivion then survived, leaving the shiny tears behind.

Hole, like Nirvana had the incredible ability to capture the "teen angst" of the 90s. From "Teenage Whore" & "Miss World" to "Doll Parts" and "Violet." Those teens are adults now and I'm still happy to see Courtney popping up on tv occasionally.

Her cover of "Gold Dust Woman" for the Crow soundtrack was probably one of the few acceptable covers of the song.

"Nobody's Daughter" is an awesome album. I can't believe its eight years old.

Agree r114, I love "Samantha" and 'For once in your life" and "Someone Else's Bed" and now I need to listen to it.

Don't forget Pacific Coast Highway R115

Live Through This is timeless

Oh yeah r116, miles and miles of regrets, it hasn't happened and it won't happen yet, days and days of perfect sex...

I'd still like to see them live in 2018

Letting loose after catering the Rancho Cucamonga Boosters Luncheon.

Love me some Hole. Soundtrack to my high school years. Miss World is one of my favorite songs.

Love Hole, their three albums from the 1990's were the soundtrack to my life.

Their MTV Unplugged was pretty great and underrated.

I used to jump around singing Rock Star by Hole because I saw Liv Tyler do it in a movie.

Should be a Live Through This tour again

This was probably my favourite back in the day.

They are my favorite band. I love all of their albums for different reasons—the abstract lyrics and chainsaw guitars on "Pretty on the Inside", the melodies and vulnerability on "Live Through This," and the pure lushness coating the rotten core of "Celebrity Skin." I think "Nobody's Daughter" has some gems as well, though it's not as strong as Courtney's previous efforts.

I really like Courtney, frankly. She's funny, smart, and has a way with words that I appreciate. I was too young to see them during their heyday, but I did see the 2010 version of "Hole" (which was basically just Courtney solo) at Bumbershoot in Seattle. That was a weird experience because it seemed like the crowd was very divided. I saw her again in Seattle in 2013 doing a solo show, and a third time when she opened for Lana Del Rey in Portland (which was also frankly weird, even though I love both their music). Courtney put on a great show each time. Her voice is shot and she doesn't really play guitar anymore, but I will still pay to see her.

Huge druggie. Lucky to still be alive.