Are window screens just an American thing?

Other countries have the advanced version. One you can roll up and get more air in.

I have noticed this as well. I stayed at several homes in Germany without them, but they were definitely in place when I was in Taiwan.

It is also common not to have window screens in my ghetto-ish neighborhood. That is a distinct phenomenon, though.

Yes, R1, those screens block sooo much air.

San Francisco doesn't seem to believe in them either

Maybe it is more difficult or expensive to fit them for antique windows?

My mid-century modern home has casement windows but the screens were ill fitting. They had little pins that had to pop into holes drilled into the window frame. I eventually replaced all of the windows with Marvin windows and they came with screens. I take them out for the winter to let more light in.

We have 100+ year old windows and they don't have screens for the most part. I'm sure we could retrofit storm window frames with screens but that would be a pain in the ass and expensive. We use those screens that slide open to fit your window opening. I can't imagine having my window open without a screen. For one thing, I'd be sharing my house with 10 squirrels, two raccoons, a few bats, and too many bugs to count.

R3 you’d be surprised.

Yeah, who doesn't love a horde of B-52 bombers flying into their home?

Good question. I live in one of those countries where screens literally don't seem to exist, and I can't figure out why not. It's not like they don't have mosquitos and flies here too, although admittedly they're not much of an issue in my 5th-floor apartment.

I've put a couple of removable cloth screens (the kind you hold in place with velcro) over the windows in the bedrooms, and I take them down every winter.

No idea why window screens haven't caught on here.

OP, apparently you haven't been to some of the more insect-infested parts of the US.

They seem very exotic to me.

I was surprised to read that they're very rare in Europe. Surely, Europe has annoying insects?

I've never seen fly swatters in Europe either. I don't think they have as many flies.

I remember a passage in The Thorn Birds in which one of the characters remarks that the new fitted window screens were good for keeping out bugs but that they spoiled the view.

OP, you have touched a nerve. I am a US ex-pat living in the UK and every summer I am plagued by insects flying in the windows (and yes, a bird once too). Screens just aren't available and it's maddening.

From my time in the UK/Ireland, it drove me crazy too. Spiders just walk in and people act like it's normal and whatever. They don't have air conditioners either, so you either have to open the window and let in black flies (they are everywhere during the summer/fall) and spiders, and the occasional bee or wasp, or suffer as you quietly steam in your own juices from your apartment being 80 degrees. The windows are these weird contraptions that open so the constant rain doesn't get in as easy, so there's no easy way to install screens. The apartment wasn't even that old, either, it looked like the norm.

I was vacationing in the south of France in the late summer no AC and no window screens and a million bugs and mosquitoes every where.

I believe there was a long thread on DL about window screens and it was determined that they are trashy.

Well, smell you and everyone else who thinks they're trashy, r18.

I mean that literally, too, because I can only imagine how people smell when they have to keep all the windows shut all summer long.

I didn't say I thought they were trashy, but the DL collective thinks they're trashy.

Window screens have to be up there with sliced bread and the microwave oven as one of the best inventions ever. Why would anyone reject them? Nothing better than having all the windows open in spring and summer (when it’s cool enough).

Perhaps the number of days in England where the weather is pleasant enough to open the windows is so tiny, no one considers it worth the effort or expense to buy screens?

That doesn't explain continental Europe, though.

The weather doesn't have to be pleasant to open the windows. They are designed to open and not let rain in unless there's high winds. And during the summer when there is actual sun for periods during the day the lack of air conditioning is noticeable.

Also the lack of ac and dust filters means that the interiors are dusty and sneezy. Bulldoze the old shit houses and build new sexy ones! Most of the shit in Dublin are teardowns from when it was under control of the English, anyway, yet now they are considered "historical" and "charming".

What about New Zealand? I've been watching an entertaining time waster on Netflix called Renters about slummy properties in NZ and I've never seen so many flies and nasty fly strips hanging up in these houses. Do they not do window screens there?

Window screens are super trashy

Window screens are a wonderful innovation that should be embraced. I’m certainly grateful for mine.

We like our windows without them. You want them, install them. Why do you care?

Of course, bugs come in our windows sometimes and we do have flies but they also leave. I live in a pretty cold climate, so maybe it doesn't affect me as much but it just doesn't seem to bother me.

We could get into the discussion about Americans bringing their shoes in the house, but God knows, you get just as upset about suggesting people take off your shoes, even though you're more likely to track dirt in on your feet than have it blow in through the window.

I'm an American who never wears shoes in the house, and grew up in a family that did the same.

In Brazil there's not a window screen in sight. From the poorest to the multi millionaires.

This year, yellow fever has arrived to join Zika, dengue, and chikungunha as one of the many mosquito-bourne illnesses.

But, God forbid anyone be perceived as trashy.

r28 that is nice to hear. However we've had threads on this where DLers have gone ballistic over the suggestion, just FYI.

r29, what drama. It may have nothing to do with them being perceived as trashy. It's their choice. Put up your screens and unclench.

It's super trashy to have hoards of flies and bugs crawling around your home. GO Screens!

If your home is clean, bugs don't swarm in.

I’m American, have screens, and insist that guests take off their shoes at the front door. I do that same at others’ places if the hosts have their shoes off. If they greet me at the door wearing shoes, I leave mine on. Some people are too polite to ask their guests to take off their shoes, but most are grateful when I take them off.

[quote]Perhaps the number of days in England where the weather is pleasant enough to open the windows is so tiny, no one considers it worth the effort or expense to buy screens?

You're right. Same with air-con. I just use electric fans.

[quote]That doesn't explain continental Europe, though.

No - they use roll down shutters at night for sleeping, in the South Of France - also for midday siesta.

The French are very un-into having a window open in the bedroom at night - the English are religious about it or used to be.

Flies will overtake your home, clean or not and biting flies will make anyone miserable.

[quote] If your home is clean, bugs don't swarm in.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA! Oh, my sides! You clearly do not live anywhere that has been subject to the recent 'stinkbug' invasion. (And get down on your knees and thank God for your good fortune!)

Very common throughout Latin America and southeast Asia. Specially around small villas and in hot temperature regions.

[quote]Flies will overtake your home, clean or not

Gurl, NO!

[quote] get down on your knees and thank God

R39 >>

sorry, I'm R39 - I meant R36.

I live part-time in the Bahamas (Eleuthera) and my house is very open with a lot of terraces. I don’t have screens but it’s very breezy thanks to the ocean - I have a wall of retractable doors that is always open. I do have mosquito netting over the beds though. I don’t really have a problem with bugs as the lizards take care of them.

R29 must be living in a different nation. I'm half Brazilian and visit every year and at my grandparents small town around the Minas gerais state screens are a staple in every single house.

Ms. Crawford and I thank and commend you for your civility, R33.

In England, it's considered peculiar and pretentious to ask someone to take off their shoes on entering their house.

Huzzah, yet another in the infinite number of simple things the British muck up with their convoluted and obsolete unspoken social rules!

Actually, the oil from people's feet is much harder to clean on carpet than dirt from shoes. Ask any carpet cleaner.

You're ridiculous, R46. First of all, carpet cleaners are lying to you and will tell you any nonsense to get you to pay for their services (which you clearly believe). And if you think the choice is between shoes and walking barefoot, you're also ridiculous. I wear socks around the house, as does every person I know. I also know people who have indoor footwear (whether you call them slippers or house shoes).

Good for your grandparents' small village in Minas, R42.

Visit Sāo Paulo, the biggest city in South America and you won't find a screen in 99.9 of the windows in any apartment or house.

I have an apartment in SP, and weekend place in Guarujá.

There's now a travel advisory for yellow fever.

Window screens are in fact not a thing in Brazil.

[QUOTE]Actually, the oil from people's feet is much harder to clean on carpet than dirt from shoes. Ask any carpet cleaner.

😂 What the hell kinda oil is on the bottom of your feet?

I tried screen here in the UK on 5 x Bi-folding kitchen window/wall but bugs and flies still came in from the garden.

I had the screens removed and had an industrial electric bug killer fitted instead, works much better I never see any insects now.

None of these pro-shoe people have ever heard of Japan, apparently.

Honestly though, I think it has a lot to do with the changes in how Americans socialize. Decades ago, many more people had household help -- no need to fret about dirty floors if someone else was cleaning them. Also, people entertained at home more, and in a more formal manner. Naturally it would be awkward to expect casual acquaintances or business associates to take off their shoes.

But these days, hardly anyone entertains at home and the average American's houseguests are likely to be very close friends or family.

That thing R50 is more ugly than screens.

I don't worry about people wearing shoes as I don't have any carpeting in the house. Not sure that I've seen carpet in any home here in the UK for 20 years.

R50 my rooms are 12ft tall and it is fitted close to the ceiling, you don't notice it.

I remember having breakfast in a café somewhere in Belgium or Netherlands, and even though we were indoors, the flies were everywhere. It was very unappetizing, but the locals didn't seem phased.

Now, when I know a fly is in my home, it's days are numbered because I won't rest until it's smashed dead. One of my favorite things is a screened-in porch on a warm summer night.

Maybe it's an american thing-- a deep aversion to having insects buzzing about and landing on food, etc.

I never wear shoes indoors myself but the whole concept of asking guests to take them off seems weird to me when I think about it.

[QUOTE] That thing [R50] is more ugly than screens.

Imagine how hideous screens would look on this kitchen, you can see why the electric bug killer is a better option.

The ubiquitous UPVC window frames in the U.K. are a blight worse than screens.

That's different R57. Many people don't have screen doors. My doors are just regular size and I leave them open for fresh air.

R57 all I can see in that picture are ants crawling all over the kitchen counter.

I think it's a cultural thing, like serving salad after the mains, cheese after dinner; in the UK, cold toast, driving on the wrong side, etc. Our place on a hillside above Mijas with a view of the Med has no screens and we like it that way--we open all the doors & windows and only sound we hear is the rustling of wind in the olive trees that surround the house.

[QUOTE]Imagine how hideous screens would look on this kitchen, you can see why the electric bug killer is a better option.

Who in England has a kitchen like that?

Here in the States, discarded window screens are the first sign you're under attack from vampires.

I don’t have carpets either but still insist guests take off their shoes because I don’t want them bringing in germs. Dogs piss all over the sidewalk, when their walkers pick up shit I’ve never seen one clean up with bleach afterward, people spit outside... who wants that on your floor?

I have shoes that are for inside only. I also have some for guests if they prefer, but they usually just wear their socks.

I live in London and have a kitchen with a big glass wall that slides open to the garden. It’s not like we get swarms of locusts. Sometimes a fly comes in. Big deal.

[QUOTE] R62 Who in England has a kitchen like that?

Lots of people, having the kitchen open to the garden is pretty much the most popular home improvement you can make at the moment.

Remodelling your home is very common in the UK, we all seem to constantly live with building work and builders ( Contractors ). Most people would rather extend and convert their homes than move house, even when if it means overspending on the property.

I grew up in SF and we didn't have screens until we moved to a house that had them when I was 16. Lived there until I was 22 then lived without them again for another 18 years. Never had a much of a problem with bugs in any of those homes. Maybe because those were cool foggy neighborhoods and windows were cracked rather than thrown open.

Moved to Sonoma County (hour north of SF) and bought a house with screens and bugs still sometimes get inside. I especially hate it when big flies get in. But over the 25 years I'v lived here vineyard expansion (and insect control) has resulted in bug reduction. I'm not happy about that because we also see a lot less of the charming insects like caterpillars, butterflies, lady bugs, and orb weavers.

I like the screens because I always have at least one window open and more in summer.

You gotta love these DL thread where the basic assumption is that everyone is middle class or higher with plenty of disposable income.

"....but the locals didn't seem phased."

r54 -- would you like to correct this before I call you an idiot?

[quote]The ubiquitous UPVC window frames in the U.K. are a blight worse than screens.

God, YES. They make some reasonably nice houses look like sheds. They've helped uglify the country...and don't start me on LED street lights.

What do they do in the USA when they upgrade the windows?

I live in San Francisco in an apartment probably built in the 60s that had no screens when I moved in 20 years ago. Occasionally, a fly would get in, but you really don't need screens here. The landlord replaced all the windows a few years ago with more energy-efficient ones that have screens -- except for the bathroom window, which I keep slightly open to keep the mildew down and so I still get the random fly. Which I cannot kill fast enough.

I grew up on the largely screened-in East Coast and there was little worse than having a mosquito whining near your ear when you're trying to sleep.

[QUOTE] R68 You gotta love these DL thread where the basic assumption is that everyone is middle class or higher with plenty of disposable income.

Some people in the UK take out 2nd/3rd mortgages to remodel their kitchen, it's not unusual to spend £50,000 - £100,000 ($70,000 - $140,000) on a good kitchen that has a fold-out glass wall of doors.

In England they're big on bathrooms. Some new flats have two tiny bedrooms and three bathrooms.

It's the same vinyl clad shit - triple panes for energy savings.

R73 I've resisted the multiple bathroom thing so far and stayed with two in a four bedroomed house.

The double/triple glazed window thing is different in the UK. If you are doing even a smallish renovation/extension and need planning permission you have to comply with 'Building Control' who will not approve the work without double/triple glazing. Without approval things get nasty, they could even demolish any extension you have built or declare in uninhabitable.

You don't get them in New Zealand, but people used to have them for their doors when I was growing up. Don't see them so much either anymore.

[quote] Lots of people, having the kitchen open to the garden is pretty much the most popular home improvement you can make at the moment.

In a country where, according to R34, the weather is too awful to open windows most of the time, people want to have their kitchens open to the elements. Makes perfect sense.

This thread is teaching me that the US is a-swarm with masses of insects compared to other countries. Figures.

Tell us more about the UK r72 and r73. Have laundry rooms caught on yet? On my first trip to London, I remember squeezing myself into a whole variety of bathroom contraptions.

I have screens on my windows in my condo. I used to keep the door to the outside deck open until I got eaten alive by mosquitoes when I was going through chemo. If I don't leave the door shut and the screen door from the bedroom to the outside deck closed I get leetle {sic} winged insects flying around. I get squirrelly when I hear them buzzing but can't see them.

R78 Some new houses have Utility (Laundry) rooms and people usually add one if they are extending their kitchen, but they aren't a priority. To add one to an existing home via an extension ( not many people would consider dividing one from current indoor space) would cost a minimum of £15,000 ($20,000).

They would probably get filled up with bikes and junk in any case.

In general Italian homes do not have a Laundry room either and the washing machine is located in the bathroom.

I live in a 90 year old building with the original steel casement windows that swing out. No screens but some people have installed the kind that have little tracks on the sides attached to the wood window trim and the screen rolls down with the sides tucked inside the tracks. Laundry is in the basement level of the building.

It's common for highrise buildings in the US to NOT have screens on the windows.

If bugs do get in, the cat takes care of them.

[quote]In a country where, according to [R34], the weather is too awful to open windows most of the time, people want to have their kitchens open to the elements. Makes perfect sense.

We have many nice days....and the minute we do, we throw them open. Summers in London are pretty long and muggy these days.

& many, many cafes have outside seating. we eat outside throughout the year, even if we have to wear a hat and jacket.

r54 Bugger off. English is not my first language.

That was for r69.

[quote]This thread is teaching me that the US is a-swarm with masses of insects compared to other countries.

Gurl - check out the American wildlife threads.

There are people here who live in New England who are scared to leave the house.

r86 -- You idiot! Learn the lingo, Luigi!

Apparently if you live high up in an American skyscraper you can live too high for the bugs.

I, as a Brit, love the high-rise living threads. Except people usually make it sound horrible and very unromantic.

lol I knew there would be some sensitive butt-hurt bitch like R27 over fucking window screens. It was just a question, relax hunny.

I just think they're very practical. Do they stop all bugs? No as some come in when you open a door but they certainly keep out the majority of bugs and all birds/animals.

I know some people in Canada have them too

[R77], apart from puerile xenophobia, is there a point to your post?

[QUOTE] R78 Tell us more about the UK [R72] and [R73]. Have laundry rooms caught on yet? On my first trip to London, I remember squeezing myself into a whole variety of bathroom contraptions.

I just spent £12,000 ($15,000) to make my bathroom in the UK 18 inches larger so that I could remove the bath (tub) and fit the same double shower unit that I have in Italy. I even imported the shower, all of the fittings and marble wall/ floor slabs from Italy saving about £10,000 ($13,000) on UK retail prices.

My Nephew is doing the same thing thing later this year, so bathrooms are slowly improving here.

In Florida, every door and all windows are screened, for obvious reasons. Porches, pool and even the garage door opening is screened. We have mosquitoes and snakes and bugs and critters and bears and on and on. We do monthly screen checks to make sure no holes are in them. Also that way in most of the houses I've been in, in the Caribbean.

I didn't know they had bears in Florida. I thought they were only in the north of the country. Like the moose.

See, this is why I love the wildlife threads. You learn so much. They're fascinating.

& yes, please feel free to ask me about British bathrooms and PVC windows, in return.

Oh and our fucking buses with no air-conditioning and windows that don't open properly, if at all.

Europeans who think screens are tacky must be TRAUMATIZED by visits to Florida... we don't just screen windows, we screen in our swimming pools (sometimes, with townhomes, our ENTIRE YARD).

There's a really good reason: SNAKES. Once you've accidentally shared an open-air swimming pool with a water moccasin, you will never, EVER bitch about pool enclosures again. Water moccasins are EVERYWHERE in Florida, even downtown Miami (they swim up the Miami River, then crawl ashore into Brickell when it starts getting uncomfortably salty in the water). Snake repellant ATTRACTS them (!!!), and they're both territorial AND willing to ATTACK humans (vs rattlesnakes, who'll usually try to flee or scare the human away).

R53, where do you live in the UK? Where I am (SE England) carpet is EVERYWHERE. The first house I rented here had carpet in the master en suite. Homes in my area are typically lived in by the same residents for 40+ years, so when buying a house, one must use the utmost powers of imagination of how things could be with some renovation. In the end, I've decided to take my house down and build a new one with modern everything as the local council will not allow me to do much of anything to my 1960s pile. I like my property and views, so will be closing my eyes and jumping into the probably never-ending self build. Still can't get window screens, but I won't be having carpet!

Those snakes will chase you out of your yard if they get mad. Nothing like running out into the street as fast as you can so the snake won't bite you.

Those MFs are fast!

R96 I live in Manchester and even my 78 year old Mother hasn't had carpet for 20 years (possibly on the stairs?)

You can buy window screens in the UK but they are expensive.

This company did mine but I hated them and they were unnecessary.

Good luck with your planning permission an building control. I hate the bastards.

Water moccasin in Florida swimming pool.

If it's not obvious, they're venomous & highly aggressive.

And in most of South Florida, we ALSO have pythons. In Dade, Broward, and Collier counties, they're "hopelessly" established as invasive wildlife. The only thing that can really prey upon them are Florida panthers (feline speed & agility + big-cat size).

[quote] Water moccasins are EVERYWHERE

OMG! and...Americans have so much nature to deal with >>I just googled (see link)

There's what seems to be a fox burying his booty in my garden in London and I've been making a pretty big deal about how to deal with it.

Florida sounds as terrible as Australia when it comes to the critters.

R100 Foxes are OK, they are only really active at night and terrified of humans. Don't live long either.

R98, I have full permission from the local council (which was an education to say the least), and now dealing with builders. I'm American so this whole thing is a confounding puzzle to me, but perhaps that's what keeps me afloat. I find the whole thing fascinating and maddening. Sounds like Manchester is far ahead of us here in the South when it comes to abolishing carpet. Thanks for the link to screens.

[quote] I'm American so this whole thing is a confounding puzzle to me, but perhaps that's what keeps me afloat. I find the whole thing fascinating and maddening.

Sounds like you've got a Channel 4 lifestyle reality show on your hands. If you have a TV you'll know they'll make a reality show about anything in England. Call them!

[quote] I had the screens removed and had an industrial electric bug killer fitted instead

This person as a child had to have been traumatized by Coral Brown. Sad.

Ha, R104, have friends say similar to me (or even pushing for Grand Designs). No way! I'll happily pose for "after" pictures for my family and friends, but have no desire to be publicly documented "during".

Where I live in central France (in the woods) we have no screens at all. They're ugly and would be only useful four months out of the year so no way. Dealing with bugs during the summer is just a fact of life. At night all windows are open and if I forget to plug an anti mosquito plug in my room the nasty fuckers wil eat me immediately so I never forget to put it in more than once. But apart from the mosquitos being their nasty selves at night I don't get bugs inside. Never had a bird (?) nor anything more dangerous than the odd cat wandering in. I suspect the situation in the US is totally different bugs-wise (+ the humidity, non existent here.)

R98 I have found that if you have fully opening doors on large garden facing rooms then the bugs just fly in and straight back out (so long as you don't have food lying around) because they don't get stuck behind windows. The whole of the back of my house is basically a glass wall that i open up fully in 'summer'.

The only other problem is bats on warm evenings (I live near a very large park), but I fitted mains electricity at the bottom of my garden and they happy to fly around the lighting that I installed there.

I did have a frog that lived under the staircase for a winter though.

Good luck with your build.

[quote]I suspect the situation in the US is totally different bugs-wise

everything seems to be LIFE THREATENING there

You want to talk trashy? I had a friend who owned an apartment complex years back near Disneyland in Anaheim. He got tons of Southerners who got jobs at Disneyland. They insisted on removing the screens for no other reasons than they wanted to throw their cigarette butts out the window after they finished smoking.

Most of the area immediately surrounding Disneyland is totally ghetto. This does not surprise me R110. Nevertheless, I would have a no-smoking rule if I owned apartments and if a tenant smoked even once, GONE. Bye bitch. Out.

Minnesotan here. Land o' lakes means millions of mosquitoes, so without window screens we'd be eaten alive. And Zika, West Nile, and malaria aren't so cool, either.

When I was a kid, I'd sometimes raise my bedroom window screen so my cat could come and go as he pleased at night through the window. That ended the night another cat followed him in. They had a knock-down drag-out fight at the end of my bed while I hid, curled up under the thin blanket, at the top.

One morning I walked into the kitchen and found a squirrel on the kitchen table - open screen again. A few years later, I was in my bathrobe, staying up late, watching Letterman. I could've sworn I saw the valance move. It happened again. I woke up my mom. She marched over the drapes and gave them a yank - and this CREATURE came flying off the drapes SMACK ONTO MY BARE CHEST, flew onto my head, then leaped off and disappeared. I nearly died of fright. Another squirrel.

We have lots of squirrels in the UK (US greys mainly, to the detriment of our native reds) but unless you are unlucky enough for them to create a nest in your loft (roof space), most never come near humans unless you feed them on a regular basis.

R111, that was maybe a decade ago and tenants like the one described is why he sold.

[quote] even the garage door opening is screened

WTF?! What a pain pulling your car in and out!

What kind of trouble did the local council make for you, R95? The house was built in the 1960's? Why would they bother? Is it some type of historical house?? It sounds like they are very strict over there regarding even changing something. Or, is it like over here where you need a permit to build??

There are lots of discussions all over the internet about the lack of window screens in Europe. These are the arguments used to justify their absence:

1) Screens reduce airflow. 2) Screens reduce light from outside. (?) 3) Older windows are not designed to easily accommodate screens. 4) Bugs must not be as bad as they are in the US. 5) Screens are ugly. 6) It rains in the middle of the night, so people have to close the window anyway. (?) 7) Bugs fly in, but eventually they fly back out (after biting) 8) Screens are unnecessary--(no justification needed, all benefits ignored).

Here are some solutions I collected from anti-screen comments posted in various discussion boards:

1) Use bug spray/DEET when you sleep 2) Don't open windows at night when interior lights are on 3) Use a mosquito net for the bed. 4) Use a plug-in repellent. 5) Squash the mosquito when it lands on you. 6) Don't worry, the bug will eventually leave. 7) Don't stay near areas with bugs (ponds/lakes, etc.) 8) Swat them away if one flies near you.

These solutions are embodied in R107's reply: [quote]Where I live in central France (in the woods) we have no screens at all. They're ugly and would be only useful four months out of the year so no way. Dealing with bugs during the summer is just a fact of life. At night all windows are open and if I forget to plug an anti mosquito plug in my room the nasty fuckers wil eat me immediately so I never forget to put it in more than once. But apart from the mosquitos being their nasty selves at night I don't get bugs inside.

I'm sorry, but 4 months out of the year is a long time to battle bastard mosquitoes, especially if a simple window covering would help the problem significantly. Mosquitoes at night are AWFUL-how can anyone sleep with even a single mosquito in the room? I have no concern about the diseases they carry so much as the annoyance of their bites and the parasitic nature of their existence. Moths are another pest with whom I don't care to share my residence.

It seems simply that Europeans didn't grow up with screens and don't seemed to be as bothered by bugs/mosquitoes as Americans are. It's one of those very frustrating discussions (like leaning back one's airplane seat) where people just do not understand the other side's mentality.

Europeans are like, "yes, mosquitoes are bad and they itch for days but if you take these 10 precautions you will probably only get bitten a couple of times every night, but it's only for 4 months of the year. That's nature, for you! Relax and enjoy life."

Americans say, "How can I relax and enjoy life knowing that I am going to wake up with itchy bites all over my arms, face and ears? There's a simple fix that doesn't require constant vigilance!"

European thinks, "tacky, anxious, weak American."

American thinks, "Hard-headed European."

It's worse than needing a permit, you need architect drawn plans with exact dimensions that you cannot deviate from in any way, window shapes and positions, insulation, neighbour impact, even existing trees on the plot.

If you own a listed building (pretty much anything over 150 years old) you need approval from English Heritage also.

R117 Everything you say is true. Budget airline seats do not recline in Europe any longer, one less argument to have.

Now let me tell you about how they used to do it in old Montogmery, Alabama, in my great-grandparents' neighborhood.

This was a turn-of-the-century neighborhood, with large homes featuring porches, columns, center hallways, sleeping porches, etc. All windows had screens, of course. But the help removed the screens in winter for a few weeks of better street appearance, according to my grandmother. Around March 1, back up went the screens; the insects were stirring!

Now after the ("Wawuh" = WWII) when the families in the neighborhood could get air condition retrofitted to their old homes, they signaled to their neighbiors that they had cool comfort inside by leaving the screens off year 'round.

Bragging rights in a way.

R116, I'm the one doing the building in England (i'm not R95). Anyway, what has happened is that I live in a designated Area of Outstanding Landscape Value which means there are limits on how much you can extend the original house on a plot. You can only extend an original house by 40%. My ugly 1960's house has already been extended up to 40%, but in really illogical stupid ways. So we'd either have to tear it back to the original house and try to re-extend, or we can just start over which is far more cost-effective, actually. We can build a new house that is 10% larger than the current house. And once the new house is "substantially finished" we can apply for a 40% extension to then complete the design of the house we have. It is absolutely ridiculous and a huge, stupid game that wastes everyone's time and money.

Wonderful summary, R117.

I would quibble that, in addition to having more insects/creepy-crawlies both in sheer numbers and varieties, much of the US has a far longer insect season. I live in the Northeast US, and the stinkbugs (R36) start sneaking into my house the instant temps creep a degree or two above freezing. I had a few last week before the big Nor'easter hit. Bugs then stay active until maybe late November. As global warming escalates, I expect things to worsen until even the Europeans have to relent to their new insect overlords.

STINK BUGS BY COUNTY

Anyone else get invaded by ladybugs this time of year? How they get inside is a mystery.

It's almost love bug season in Florida.. I hate those annoying things.

r117, you come to a sound conclusion, though I would qualify that we're not a different species. As a Swede who used to lived in New York City, when I returned home I missed being able to get something 24 hours a day. I missed the abundant variety of places I could grab different things to eat and different markets. After 7 years back home, I realize I don't miss those things on different occasions. I did feel that the screens where I lived looked dirty and affected my view, but it did not bother me too much.

I know Americans who have moved to Sweden and become very upset that we do not have screens and that we take off our shoes and expect others to. Years later, they have no screens on their windows and have adapted quite well without them and greet me in their sock feet at the door and have everyone take off their shoes.

Life goes on.

What do you when the occasional bird flies into your house? That's the worst.

My apartment in Prague has 8-foot windows with no screens and windowsills packed with pigeons...

Psittacosis City!

Avian flu!

Window screens are a requirement in CA, at least for rentals. It is a code violation not to have them.

R124 I get a few ladybugs inside sometimes. I live in a highrise condo with no screens. That's the only bug I don't mind really. I just let them be. Somehow the cat seems to leave them alone also, but goes on a murderous rampage with flies or moths. For some reason he leaves spiders alone also....he watches them but doesn't kill or eat them.

R131 I don't think so, at least not highrise apartments. I was in one for 10 years with no screens and 15 years later that building still doesn't have screens. I don't know how they could even be installed based on the way the windows are designed. Same thing with highrise condos....I have never encountered one with screens on the windows, with the exception of 1 that had a sliding screen door inside the door to the balcony.

Insect populations have been completely wiped out in Europe because of pesticides, R12. The birds who used to eat those insects are now disappearing as well.

I have an issue with bats getting in the house. They carry rabies, after all. I can't imagine not having screens here in the eastern USA. Just leave the light on outside and see the HUGE number and variety of insects, some of them large. Why wouldn't you want screens? I would hate to have an opossum or a raccoon climb in the house.

[quote] Mosquitoes at night are AWFUL-how can anyone sleep with even a single mosquito in the room?

[quote] Europeans are like, "yes, mosquitoes are bad and they itch for days but if you take these 10 precautions you will probably only get bitten a couple of times every night, but it's only for 4 months of the year.

r117 why did you ignore the part of my post that says that I use a reppellent plug ? They work just fine. We do not spend months being bitten every night by mosquitos. We deal with them differently than you do, that's all.

Getting so invested by Europeans' non usage of screens is just weird. As a French I'm puzzled by other nations not using bidets. I can't see why anybody would want to spend their entire lives taking shits without washing their ass afterwards, both for comfort and hygiene, but hey, why do I care. I don't. People are different.

I care. I wish we had bidets in the US. But I am also glad we have window screens and air conditioning, and wish other countries we like to go to had them as well.

You americans are so funny. What's wrong with the random bee or fly in your home? Spiders are very useful. They kill little bugs and insects. Europe is not like Australia, insects are not so abundant or dangerous that you have to permanently use screens. In the olden days they were everywhere. My grandfather 's house in the south of France still has them. But they are very out of fashion. Air conditioning is very bad for the health. I hate it. Summer is supposed to be hot. Go get a shower if you feel sweaty or smelly. You shouldn't sanitize everything like you do. It makes you vulnerable. And its anti ecologic.

Malaria was far more prevalent in Europe and the US before DDT wiped out almost all of the mosquito population. Since then, mosquitoes have developed resistance to DDT and worse, they are natural disease vectors. Climate change means malaria and other mosquito-borne diseases will become much more common in the US and Europe, too, over the next few decades. They'll probably adapt to screens once it becomes an issue of public health.

I've always lived in big cities. No need for screens. Maybe in the future. What R138 says is true. Air conditioning is BAD though.

A few years ago there was a story of a baby in London being bitten by a fox that sneaked into the home through an open door left that way to allow fresh air in. I can't recall which publication the story was in, but I do recall the furor in the comments when Americans wondered why they didn't have any screen doors. The Americans were WTF and the Britons were aghast that they should have to armor their homes against animal intruders. That was the gist of the comment section. It's such an easy preventive measure, right? So why such anger in response to the screen door suggestion? I Googled key words to find the article and lo and behold there are multiple incidents of foxes sneaking into homes through open doors and biting babies!

I attempted to link, but the URL for the search is too long. Just enter "london fox bite baby open door."

A fox bit my baby

Cue the UK person to say "you Americans are so strange. Why do you care if foxes come into your home and bite your babies? It's natural, and foxes eat insects and mice."

r137 you don't live in a hot area I presume. The midwest and southern states in the US get hot, very hot, during the summer, too hot to exist or live or do things. You may notice this next heat wave in France when a bunch of old people die due to not having air conditioning. It also is useful because the air filters trap dust and pollen, which makes the air more breathable. I've never sneezed as much as I have in Europe indoors, due to the dust and shit that just floats in and stays there because of lack of a/c and filtering.

I think I read somewhere once that if people wanted the south to stop fucking up politics in the US, turn off the air conditioning. Everyone would be too hot and fanning themselves on the veranda to worry about what everyone else is doing and what religion they're following.

R143 the south of France is stifling hot in the summer. But I believe the american South is tropical. I don't know anything about the midwest. I don't care if old people die personally. I prefer that to air conditioning. I have traveled extensively through India. I was born in Nice. Its so hot in summer you can't even walk in the sun. I don't mind. I love feeling hot. I hate the cold. I think old people are meant to die anyway. When I was living in central London, near Waterloo Bridge, I once saw a fox at night near the trash bins. We don't have foxes in cities in France. Doctors recommand to sleep with a window opened. Americans want to sanitize everything. But they are so sexy. I am always turned on by americans

r144 wow, okay. I prefer air conditioning, I don't think old people have to die just because it's hot. You'll be getting a lot more of those blistering summers, too, because of global warming, so kiss grandma goodbye now, I guess.

Oh my grand-maman died 20 years ago. I am 47 honey

I'm an American, in the Midwest. The summers can be horribly hot and humid. Years ago, I had an apartment in the city, for about a year, in an old Victorian brownstone. I didn't have screens, at first, but I was later able to purchase some expandable screens at a hardware store. Why did I buy them? Imagine trying to corral a dragonfly or a cicada out of your 4th floor apartment. You can just pick up a cicada and move it outside (I'm not afraid of bugs), but dragonflies are very fast, and they're so large that you can actually hear them as they fly. I know they have cicadas and dragonflies in France (at least, in the South). Oh, and buy the way, one night, a bat made it inside, and was flapping all over the place until I was able to pin it against the wall with a broom, and carefully grab and release it outside. Remember: bats in the US can carry rabies. Not much risk if you're not bitten, but it can actually become airborne in a bat cave.

And, my downstairs neighbor's cats occasionally intruded, climging up the fire escape and through my window. I like cats, but I don't want strange cats invading my apartment. I actually had nightmares after I moved from that place.

The Floridians seem to be okay with their little lizards. I think I wouldn't mind them, but I'd still have screens for those damn palmetto bugs.

Palmetto bugs are just cockroaches. It's amazing what little space they can crawl into.

The worst I had was scorpios. I never had cicadas or dragonflies. Once we had a bat at my friends house. They are very wealthy, very old money, so it's a immense and beautiful ancient family house they use for the holidays. We chased the bat through cavernous staircases and huge corridors, with broomsticks, and finally got it out. It was fun. You sound very nice R148. I am a vegan, a professional sportsman, very fit, very muscular and I am told that my ass is fantastic. I was a model too so not bad looking. Total bottom

I think R149 you mean R147.

Lizards don't bother me at all. I feel obliged to capture them & move them outside so my cats won't kill them.

Palmetto bugs are another matter entirely. Death to roaches!!!

R92 = Lucille Bluth.

R144 is LOL, I almost want to put on ignore just so I can go read all your wacky stream-of-French-consciousness posts.

Like another poster, I live in Minnesota and the mosquitos are ubiquitous in the summer. I can’t imagine living without window screens.

I have a house now, but when I moved into run-down apartments without window screens or with ones that had tears, I made a very quick trip to the hardware or thrift store to get the expandable ones. They looked horrible and were a minor pain to remove whenever I wanted to close a window, but I never even considered going without. They kept the insects (and bats) out and the dogs and cats in.

I actually like the heat and humidity and usually only run the ac when the temperature gets above 90, so I really love opening the windows, but a home buzzing with mosquitos and horse flies for four or five months out of the year would make me crazy.

And I have never even thought of any decrease in natural light or air flow. I wonder if anyone has ever measured this.

The worst I had was scorpios.

[quote]I don't care if old people die personally. I prefer that to air conditioning.

Might our French poster be a touch deranged? I mean, I don't like old people.. I took care of two parents with dementia and one was gigantic asshole her whole life. I live in a neighborhood that trends old and cannot tell you the number of times I've wanted to kick some elderly square in the seat of his or her pants when they take five minutes to WRITE A CHECK at the grocery store with a long line behind me. Some 90+ year old woman (no exaggeration) with dyed jet black hair did this at Trader Joe's recently. Of course I wanted to reach out and slap her hard, but I didn't think about elderly genocide as a way of increasing my comfort level.

Anyone who loves hot weather is deranged IMO, homicidal thoughts are just icing.

R155, that must have been awful, but the worst is when a bunch of Pisces get in!!

Back in the bronze age midwestern homes has storms and screens. Storm windows went on after the weather cooled in the fall. Basically a framed single pane of glass that slid into a track on the outer side of the window. In spring the screen version went up. The problem was that each storm or screen would only fit its particular window so if they weren't labeled-- god help you. Took up a tremendous amount of garage space and it was always us kids who had to put them up. Also to stay cool pre-AC we would close all the windows and pull the drapes on hot summer days --I guess to hold whatever cooler air was in the house. Then at night everything opened up again.

I haven't had a chance to read the entire thread, so I'm not sure if security has been discussed. Someone can walk in through an unscreened door or window quietly and without detection. At least attempting to remove a screen causes some noise that can alert the homeowner. I don't live in a bad neighborhood, actually a nice one that gets cased pretty often by B & E crews -- an open unscreened window or door (in particular) is practically an invitation.

RI56 CHECK = CHEQUE

In countries where people can spell.

R156 CHECK = CHEQUE

In countries where people can spell.

I thought they are to keep bugs, mosquitoes, flies out?

I am adding screens specially designed to stop no-see ums here in coastal georgoa. They can fly though regular screens. They come out in spring when the weather is cool and wonderfull. I cannot stand them.

The Palazzo in CMBYN had no window screens and it bugged the hell out of me, I lost all interest in the movie...couldn't concentrate.

R156, he’s not deranged, just French! Ps I think the fact that his own grandmother is already gone has a lot to do with his cavalier attitude about death among the elderly. It may be fairly common to hate inanimate objects more than one hates the death of other people’s grandparents. Especially among the French!

I posted upthread that window screens are nonexistent in Europe, but I have to qualify that: I'm in a vacation house in Emilia- Romagna right now, and pleasantly surprised to see that all the windows have screens!

Of course, I shudder to think what that means for the insect infestations around here in the summer...

What's a "window"?

R166 Go a little further south into Lazio (Rome) and they have some of the most vicious mosquito's that I have ever encountered. My husband had to have his arm wrapped in kitchen towel one evening after an attack to stop the bleeding. Tiger Mosquito's tear instead of just biting.

People who don't have screens DO have mosquito nets or else they couldn't sleep.

Why the apostrophe's, r168? The mosquito's what?

I live in a 3 flat in Chicago that was built in 1910, so I just have to buy those expandable screens for my windows and I have 45 windows!

Those expandable screens are against code in Chicago. They could fall out and hit somebody.

When I bought my house some of the windows were missing screens. They were all custom sized windows. I went to the hardware store and they made new screens for me for under $30 each. If you want an even cheaper temporary fix, buy a few yards of screening, (or mosquito net) cut to fit and tack up around windows.