The Magnificent Awfulness of Mr Neil Diamond

I was extremely sad to read that he is a complete and total BASTARD in real life.

He's still packing them in on tour in his 70s. A lot of very good pop, like Cherry Cherry, Thank The Lord For The Nighttime, Sweet Caroline and Cracklin' Rosie...but when he took himself too seriously, he could be awful.

I liked the majority of Neil Diamond's music until about 1980. Aftewards it's basically all schmaltz and schlock.

The OP forgot to mention "Cracklin' Rosie." That is such a great song.

Anyone who could write lyrics like "Cracklin' Rose, you're a store bought woman, but you make me sing like a guitar hummin'" is either a genius or plain barking mad.

He doesn't bring me flowers anymore

"Heart Light" and "Sayin' I Love Ya" - two of the worst songs ever recorded. Diamond never could sing a note, but in these two songs, he sounds especially awful. And the inane lyrics don't help, either.

Anyone ever see his remake of "The Jazz Singer"? I hear it was awful, but it did revive his music career, with 3 top ten hits from it..."Hello Again", "America" and the biggest "Love On The Rocks". I wonder what made Laurence Olivier (!) decide to play his father.

"I wonder what made Laurence Olivier (!) decide to play his father."

Money, I would imagine. Sir Larry also did "The Betsy" and "Inchon" for the same reason.

I love "Coming to America" and "I Am, I Said."

Agree that his music after the late 70s was pretty bad. And he’s apparently a real asshole.

Don’t know what year “September Morn” came out, but it was going through my mind on Sept. 11, 2001, and I cannot hear it today without crying.

I saw him in concert twice in the 70s and he was fantastic!

"Heart Light" and "Sayin' I Love Ya" - two of the worst songs ever recorded."

The second song to which you are referring is called "Yesterday's Songs".

He's not an asshole and I've never met anyone who said he was who had actually met him.

He is, however, barking mad.

I recall the biography written about him decades ago had members of his bands from back them claiming he'd take their input while working on his songs, but never gave any contributor a composers credit. I always thought his early work was his best, but after reading that, I was left wondering how much of it really was his work.

The book also said that after he'd been hired to write the score for the film "Jonathan Livingston Seagull", they had a problem: hed never written a film score before, he didn't know how to do it. Lee Holdridge pulled him and the project through, but once again Diamond refused to share credit. As a result Holdridge refused to work with him ever again. Word got around about Diamond denying Lee his credit and supposedly that's the reason the Grammy's pretty much snubbed Diamond ever after.

Since this is datalounge, I think we should see that moment on the Grammys where Neil meets Barbra.

I saw him in concert twice. The first time was amusing. It was a family event as my best friend's mother was a huge fan while we were kids so we all went. I was in college and three nuns in full habits walked by us. My best friend and I tried to hide from that point on but the guilty pleasure of most of the songs, the happy childhood memories, an energetic crowd and an overall good stage show overcame all else.

His songs up to 1970 were fine. Once he hit the jumpsuit era and had projects like Jonathan Livingston Seagull (Birds in garbage, what an insprartion), he was over for me.

I first heard Tap Root Manuscript when I was 10 years old in 1971, it's still one of my favorite albums, particularly the African Suite tracks.

Lee Holdridge had a lot of stories about how Diamond screwed him over, but some of those stories were either lies or exaggerated. One has him claiming he was asked to miss Christmas to score a song, but the song he cliams this about was actually released before that Christmas even came around.

That's not to say Diamond didn't screw people over with JLS score because he did, but Holdridge is also adding slights that never actually happened.

Also r15 you have the book wrong, I think. Diamond: A Biography was the one with all the Holdridge interview stuff in it, not Solitary Star.

I first heard “Cracklin’ Rosie” when I went to a friend’s house to play circa 1977, when I was about 5. She played a 45 version over and over on her “toy” record player.

She later died of a pill addiction / overdose.

I hate getting old.

R20; some little time ago, in another thread where ND was mentioned, I formed an impression that an anonymous poster to this Board might actually know that of which they wrote. Not you by any chance?

In early photographs Mr Diamond looks like a serious, earnest young man. Then at some point he apparently thought, "You know, what I really need to make it big are sequined jumpsuits!"

Neil Diamond got held up by the British Invasion.

No one posted the jumpsuit?

Bump

Someone upthread vaguely mentioned Neil's remake of "The Jazz Singer" but confessed to not having actually seen it.

I haven't seen it either, but caught this clip on YouTube.

It is all sorts of cringeworthy, and no scene like this would ever appear in a film today.

I love all his stuff. Especially Song Sung Blue and Forever in Bluejeans. He has an impressive discography. Love Sweet Caroline too.

"Sweet Caroline" was written by Neil Diamond with Caroline Kennedy in mind.

When she was 11 years old.

[italic]Where it began, I can't begin to knowing

But then I know it's growing strong

Was in the spring

Then spring became the summer

Who'd have believed you'd come along

Hands, touching hands

Reaching out, touching me, touching you

Sweet Caroline

Good times never seemed so good[/italic]

Tell me that's not peak pedo. Twice he admitted it, but in more recent years he denies it.

"In a 2007 interview, Diamond stated the inspiration for his song was John F. Kennedy's daughter, Caroline, who was eleven years old at the time it was released. Diamond sang the song to her at her 50th birthday celebration in 2007. On December 21, 2011, in an interview on CBS's The Early Show, Diamond said that a magazine cover photo of Caroline Kennedy as a young child on a horse with her parents created an image in his mind, and the rest of the song came together about five years after seeing the picture. However, in 2014 Diamond said the song was about his then-wife Marcia, but he needed a three-syllable name to fit the melody."

I hate when people sing "Sweet Caroline" at karaoke, and everyone in the audience joins in during the chorus.

Me too, R31. used to like it, but now it's too much.

And I hate when everyone yells "So Good! So Good!"

I LOVE the song "Solitary Man" and I really like "I Am, I Said."

Was surprised that OP put the later in the category of ND songs he hates.

And I laughed for a solid 2 minutes at the lyric about "Song She Brang to Me.." Artistic License, I guess.

I have actually seen Neil in concert on two different occasions.

Man, you have never seen a better - behaved group of fans!

"Forever in Blue Jeans" is cornball city.

R26, I guess all 1970s pop stars tried the rhinestone studded jumpsuit: Elvis, The Osmond Bros, The Jackson Five, Neil D, Elton John, etc. etc.

September morn. We danced until the night became a brand new day. Two lovers playing scenes from some romantic play. September mornings still can make me feel that way.

"Song she brang to me" sucks, but I very much like this

You are the sun I am the moon You are the words I am the tune Play me.

Love on the Rocks is a favorite. Who can fault lyrics like “love on the rocks, ain’t no big surprise. Just pour me a drink and I’ll tell you some lies”

I used to sing it as love on the cocks.

I never heard anyone refer to I Am I Said as dreck. It's one of his many masterpieces. He was extremely productive from the 60s and 70s and in that time he released some great rockabilly, ballads, and even soul. He even had a late career resurgence in the 2000s. I don't care if some of his stuff was cheesy or if the lyrics didn't quite make sense since the melodies were what stood out. His occasional overacting or overly emotional delivery also helped overcome some of the lyrical shortcomings.

"Sherry Baby" is a cool Rockabilly number.

"A Little Bit Me A Little Bit You" and "I'm a Believer" great songs recorded by the Monkees.

Neil is one of those,like Barry Manilow,that everyone claims to hate yet know every word to his songs.

Dave Barry had some interesting things to say about what he endured from Neil Diamond fans as a result of his less-than-complimentary remarks in his Bad Song Survey articles. Look up "Dave Barry's Book of Bad Songs."

Back in the 70s, there was a picture of Diamond in a muslin shirt, through which you could see his hairy chest and nipples, in an inside cover of one of his albums. I shot many loads looking at that picture.

Very nice cover of "Play Me' by Mr. Harry Belafonte!

[quote] what an insprartion

Oh, dear.

Love "Longfellow Serenade" too..."ride come on baby ride....let me make your dreams come true...."

Here you go, r46. Is this the one?

R44, so true, and there is a big overlap in the fans of the two singers!

Music critics tried to convince everyone that his Rick Rubin produced "12 Songs" was a masterwork but it was pretty dreary.

LOL at R17"s Sister Mary Catherine.

You fans are creeping me out.

My parents were really into him. Well the fact is it rolled over on to me because I really love him. I remember when I was kind of young watching a TV special of his with my parents. It was an outdoor event probably in Hollywood. So many stars were there. Anyway, he plucked Helen Reddy out of the audience to do a duet of Song Sung Blue. I don't think it was pre-planned because at first she was really not thrilled. They sounded great together though.

Is he Jewish?

I don’t understand the complaints about Forever in Blue Jeans - it’s a lovely song about a poor couple who only need each other to get by. Here’s an interesting remix:

R56, I am Jewish, but I did a Christmas album because, you know...

Maybe tonight, just for this moment We'll feel the same things we did before Just close your eyes and let me show you You'll be my reason and I'll be yours

Remember me?

Well, I'm the boy they stood in line for Have you got just a little time for me tonight I'll make you feel alright Hey do you remember me

Well, I'm the boy you gave your heart to Don't you think we've been apart too long this time And you've been on my mind Say, do you remember me

He had some silly lyrics, but this man could sing the fuck out of anything. His voice was so sensual. He knew how to build a song as well. I agree, once he started wearing the jumpsuits, he was over,

R60, he was good all through the 70s.

He started to suck in the mid 80s, IMHO.

Even though the jumpsuits made him chafe.

Desiree is insanely catchy, it's also pretty danceable

That's what I loved about the 70s....if you listened to a pop station on the radio, you had rock, soul, countyrish stuff like John Denver, and middle of the road stuff like Neil Diamond.

Comeinaheya

Bump

I am skeptical of the bitter, apparently uncredited collaborators.

Neil had so many hits, I can see others trying to cash in.

When it’s an artist who has written a slew of hits, you can be sure they are capable of it. Sarah Mclachlan has been sued at least a couple of times for this. She won. These singer songwriters have proven track records. With a one hit wonder it seems much more likely a collaborator got screwed.

You're forgiven, r58.

R67,

Guaranteed hit albums = $$$ = Good

R8 "Love on the Rocks" is more tolerable when you instead sing "Love me Some Cocks."

R69 thinks he is funnier than he is.

R70 thinks people like him, but they really think he's an asshole

[quote]Anyone ever see his remake of "The Jazz Singer"?

I saw it because I attended a live taping of the bad movies podcast How Did This Get Made.

It was one of the worst movies I've ever seen, and not in a fun way. Except that Neil Diamond at 40 was playing a part meant for a 22-year-old. And it was like Olivier was actually making fun of the concept of acting.

In the "Who's the Bigger Asshole?" contest between r70 and r71, r71 wins.

[quote]I never heard anyone refer to I Am I Said as dreck.

Helloooo!

R72, and added to that, Lucie Arnaz is the daughter of Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz, but she really can't, you know, act.

I encourage all DLers to check out "The Jazz Singer." It's just awful in so many ways.

I once got shouted at on YouTube (loooooong time ago) for saying that I thought the lyrics:

I am I said To no one there And no one heard at all Not even the chair

...were stupid. I get the sentiment but “not even the chair?” Shoehorning in anything that rhymed, seems to me.

Hasn't there been rumors for years that the love scene between Lucie and Neil in The Jazz Singer was 'real' and not simulated, similar to the rumors about Donald Sutherland and Julie Christie in Don't Look Now?

My dad always thought that Larry from Three’s Company looked like he could be Neil’s brother. Still makes me smile when I think about it.

TODAY!

Crusty the Clown did a better Jazz Singer.

His "Song Sung Blue" is worse than "Muskrat Love" and negates everything else he did.

Neil Diamond is whiteness personified. If the Simpson’s made up a stock white singer That white people lost their shit over it would be Neil diamond

I love Neil, but one of his most cringeworthy moments was his appearance at "The Last Waltz", the consummate (imo) concert film. For some reason since Robbie Robertson was his producer at the time, he felt compelled to include Neil. He stood out like a sore thumb, especially at the finale

I just learned a few months ago that “America” was not recorded “live” with an audience. Everything was done in the studio, with pre-recorded crowd sounds!

R83 - Next to Pat Boone, Neil Diamond sounds like Marvin Gaye.

I remember thinking this was a really dumb song even when I was 5 years old.

PBS was running recently his Hot Summer Nights redux (actually I think it was part 3, the third concert run named that). It is great; if you see it in the listings be sure and check it out.

And there America is live

OMG HE'S WHITE. BURN HIS RECORDS!

I really like a lot of Neil Diamond's music from the first phase of his solo career (mid-60s to about 1972). He had hit after hit, with many of them not sounding like traditional pop at all.

I also think it was pretty ballsy of him to release an album like Tap Root Manuscript in 1970, with a whole side consisting of the "African Trilogy".

Here's Neil, looking hot, on the Glen Campbell Goodtime Hour in 1971.

He left showbiz for a while to raise his younger sons. You never hear anything about his children so he must have done something right

Dude is awash in money.

R91 - That was PR spin for his stint in rehab.

I think Van Morrison borrowed clothing from Neil Diamond in "The Last Waltz." If you cut to the end of this clip, Van does some high kicks.

I had no idea he had Parkinson

MORE GRATUITOUS HATEORADE and HAY-MAKING from a LOSER, ASPIE OP with too much time on his hands!

OP needs to find a better use of his time. Like a GREASE FIRE!

What random Name Drop will OP try to make a piñata out of next? My money's on Soleil Moon Frye.

Yeah, I know, Barbra and Neil, Christmas albums are guaranteed to sell really well.

Not going lie, because of this thread I spent my Sunday reading about and watching clips of the jazz singer, both versions. I have been educated.

Thanks, R98. You are great. And, I am not going to lie either, I first learned about the Jewish custom of tearing one's clothes when mourning from Neil's Jazz Singer.

R79, apart from the hairy chest, I don't see any other resemblance.

Bump

Neil also has a famous song, "Turn On Your Heartlight."

His fans enjoy turning flicking their cigarette lighters when he performs this one.

Or, at least, they used to.

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/3f/1a/5c/3f1a5c086f9c7ee15a6176d19a90dadb--threes-company-yacht.jpg

Okay maybe my memory and my dad’s eyesight wasn’t so good.

LOVE ON THE ROCKS!-eww.

I saw Neil in concert at MSG in the early 1990s.

He thanked the audience for "letting" him play songs from his new album. lol.

He knew we were there for the old stuff!

I liked Brother Love’s Traveling Salvation Show, I Am I Said (in spite of the stupid chair lyric), Cherry Cherry, Holly Holy, Cracklin’ Rosie...he had a lot of hits and his music reminds me of my father, who was a big fan.

I’ve seen the Jazz Singer remake and while he was miscast, I don’t remember it being quite as bad as everyone’s saying. I could rewatch it but life is short, so I’ll simply recall it with a vague fondness.

R106, how about Solitary Man?

I think it is a great song and a great recording.

R107, yes, I love that one too.

When I was 11 years old I won tickets to see the Jazz Singer movie. I went with my parents and I enjoyed it. It was at some fancy movie theater in the Jewish neighborhood and the place was packed. People seemed to like it too.

He didn't write "Sweet Caroline" about Caroline Kennedy. He wrote it about his wife at the time, but needed a name that would scan to the melody he already wrote, and saw Caroline on the cover of a magazine and used her name.

A few years ago the internet scandal types tried to say he wrote a love song about a little girl, but he didn't.

If you want scandal, go with "Cracklin Rosie." His mom's name is Rose and he would sing the song to her from stage sometimes.

People forget that blackface was briefly popular in the late 1970s and early 1980s, used as comedy. But the writer of The Jazz Singer quit when the director insisted on a blackface scene, and it wasn't really done well. It didn't make sense.

But I like the movie because I like Lucie Arnaz and Franklyn Ajaye.

[quote]He left showbiz for a while to raise his younger sons. You never hear anything about his children so he must have done something right

He actually spent the time touring Europe, often without the kids, and was reconnecting with the two daughters he abandoned from his first marriage.

His son Jesse was married to Sheryl Lee and we had gossip on another site that he was an absolute piece of shit to her when she fell ill. Also the youngest son whose name escapes me was rumored to be posting to our Usenet groups back in the 1990s, with fake rumors about how he was "secretly retarded" and "hidden away from the fans."

Someone was posting those rumors and I remember someone making the case that it was the kid himself, a teenager at the time.

I believe Heartlight was his tribute to the film ET. Very cheesy pop, but it was very catchy.

r84 I had to suffer through him and Barry Manilow thanks to my mother, but Beautiful Noise was by far the best album (it was the Robertson produced one).

I saw him in 2008 (a date had bought the tickets) and he still sounded good. I was 12 when The Jazz Singer came out and his songs from that movie are my least favorite, back then they were constantly played on the radio.

[quote]Brother Love’s Traveling Salvation Show

I was singing that the other day and my boyfriend thought it was something I made up. Humph

I love this no matter what you cunts say.

Most expensive divorce ever so I’ve heard but maybe Bezos has him beat.

Apparently his divorce made it into law school textbooks.

R117 I never thought that was a Rethug tune--isn't it about immigration?

It looks like he’s jerking off in OP’s photo!

R120, lots of rock and roll musicians look that way.

G.E. Smith seems creepy to me.

R122, not to me.

That reminds me a lot of Robbie Robertson’s lyrics too R77.

I read somewhere that he was fine with the terms of his divorce because she had been supporting his career from the beginning. but I suppose that's the only way he could spin it and keep his fan base.

He just tries so hard to be cool and manly. While wearing sequins way past the 70s. I did some professional work about 15 years ago in Austin with the Austin University PD and asked them who was the biggest prick who played at the Erwin Center they had to deal with. Neil won. And tgey laughed when they talked about it because he was already older by then and was a has been and seen as uncool. He was really serious that no one looked at him directly, even just walking by him.

r119, in 1980, some considered it "patriotic." Witness the costume. I don't think "Rethug" was a word yet, but this was popular among the Republican set IIRC.

Tell that to Los Lobos, r66.

[quote][R117] I never thought that was a Rethug tune--isn't it about immigration?

My partner and I are on a Neil Diamond binge right now and 'America' really struck me as so poignant -- when immigration was considered a good thing. It wasn't that long ago, either!

Apparently, there's a scene in the Jazz Singer where Neil needed to get angry. He, perhaps not surprisingly, had trouble emoting. So the director secretly told the band that was on-set to start playing a Barry Manilow song. It worked.

I saw The Jazz Singer in the theater as a kid and actually liked it...but I was 8 and liked a lot of dumb stuff.

There's definitely a "one of these things is not like the other" quality to his appearance in The Last Waltz.

His first wife supported his career from the beginning, r125. The second wife was the side piece. He met her when he waa doing some NYC TV show (she was a producer) and they ran off together when his first wife was about to give birth to their second kid, and barely got divorced in time to marry the side piece before SHE had their first.

His music from 1966 to about 1972 would have qualified him for The Last Waltz, but he had turned into a cheesemeister by 1976, so it was a little weird.

The first record I ever bought by Neil Diamond was a 45 vinyl single called "Sunday Sun" in the late 1960's. Pleasant to listen to but not one of his bigger hits.

r66 she won one of those cases because the recording sessions were so unprofessional that it was impossible to determine who did what, so she got the benefit of the doubt.

There is an interesting doc on session musicians that raises the point of what value is placed on collaborators' contributions. Waddy Wachtell has an interesting take on it. Naturally, he thinks they should get a cut, but he makes the distinction between what makes a hit, and what is filler. I agree with him.