South Africa

Failed genocide... Nuff said.

Because South Africa was built on racism. Canada and Australia weren't. Canada and Australia didn't believe in racism and their segregation laws were very trivial. They didn't believe in inferior races to the extent that the United States and South Africa did. South Africa cherished keeping the races separated far into the 1980s, and that was only when countries refused to interact and trade with them, not because they wanted to. These racial relations and tensions that they have toward black people and biracial people, and even Indians is why they can't really grow. They still openly segregate. They still openly discriminate. And they have no desire to make things better. When you meet a white person from South Africa, they're amazed to see black people in other countries treated as human beings. South African from the old and young generation still believe black people are inferior. White people will care for the sick, and ill, the homeless but they won't care for the black person because that black person isn't human to them.

South Africa was richer than Spain or Portugal pre-ANC. And of course Canada and Australia never had the concentration of 65 IQ Sub-Saharan immigrants SA had to cater for.

It's the result of long-term colonialism. If the conquerors don't become a majority they eventually lose power. The American south was spared such upheaval when many blacks fled to northern cities between the 1865 and the 1960s, allowing the white to black ratio to favor whites. Also we killed of the natives help get rid of the indian problem early on.

S Africa is a mess because of colonialism, racism, corruption, greed, and financial inequality. It can be fixed but it would require the culture of the country to change. The US has MUCH easier problems, but we can't seem to get our government to work together on positive initiatives. If the US can't handle relatively minor political battles what hope does a failing state like S. Africa have?

R2 Canada has made some advances in becoming less racist, but it has its own deplorables in the flyover provinces. Australia is very much still a racist country underneath it all. The concept of White Australia is far from dead.

[R5] Australia is a Chinese puppet state now so in that sense you are right. The Chinese hate blacks and aboriginals very much and see the declining economy in SA as the result of ending apartheid.

R3 SA was "rich" when the whites hoarded all the natural resources and they didn't count all the poor blacks. It was never a stable situation to being with, and once the US stopped propping it up it fell apart.

r2 at this point both sides are to blame, but whites really left a system that was setup to fail. Your note about their racism reminds me of a StraightHell (or something) porn video where they had a hot guy (minus his teeth) from S. Africa do a jerk off scene for this British porn sight. They asked him if he had any limitations, his answer was no to everything but men and "blacks". I was like really bitch? He didn't bat an eye or anything, seemed as natural as rejecting Pepsi over Coke.

To be fair, many whites who were just living their lives got caught up in the retaliation from the black community. Murder and confiscation of property is common, as well as massive amount of home invasions. Rape is very common and white women are targeted. In that environment I can understand the racial tension. It's a shame that they didn't have a Lincoln, MLK or even LBJ to properly lead the nation through their post aupartite transition.

^porn site, not sight.

R9, I think “porn sight” is the least of your problems.

r10 I'm tired as fuck.

R6 LOL China always supported the blacks in SA against Apartheid, not a late comer like the US. Even Mandela acknowledged that China was there for them through thick and thin when the US tried to get post-Apartheid SA to distance itself from China.

Probably because it began and remained a Dutch colony for a long time. The British only attacked as part of The Napoleonic Wars, SA wasn't a territory that the very overstretched British Empire either wanted or needed. It also had a largely hostile Dutch resident population.

Those wars were a Boer.

It's the Afrikanner's fault. They were the ones who sent up Apartheid. The English were far more relaxed but there were fewer of them.

r15 they might have been assholes, but they were good looking.

Afrikaner asshole.

R3, Ja sure. When 95% of the country is disenfranchised and living in poverty, that is not a prospering country.

Canada and Australia were sparsely populated, which made it easier for European expansion and dominance over the native tribes. South Africa had many warring tribes and the expanding Zulu kingdom to contend with, as well as the two Euro nations, the Dutch and the British, jockeying for control.

R13 Yes, the Dutch were truly the most racist of all colonial powers. The Spaniard and Portuguese who came before them were cruel but they also think converting natives to Christianity would make them more "civilized" (i.e. closer to humans like them). The British and French who came after the Dutch were more nuanced in their racism recognizing those who would collaborate with them in their empire building as "good" colored people.

Air Afrikaans!

R18 Cape Colony was uninhabited when it was colonised. They met the Xhosa and Zulu centuries later, who themselves were invading from the North (and who incidentally genocided any Khoi and San in their path).

Khoi Ponds

R21 Too bad they didn't "genocide" the whites and change the future for the better.

Nearly 40 yrs under majority black tribal control has turned SA into a completely corrupt, crime ridden toilet.

Don't deflect their incompetence onto their white population. The fuck ups of present day SA lay at the feet of its black majority tribal chiefs.

As an aside, what was the title of that S. African movie with the hot 20-something who gets raped by the older closet case? From maybe 3 years ago?

Actually, the American colonists are more like the Boers/Afrikaans. They resisted the British Empire, and they were extremely racist. 90% of American history is a history of segregation/discrimination not integration.

If Afrikaners are hot, they should move elsewhere and model - like Brazilians do.

Apparently Zimbabwe and Zambia were supposed to be integrated into South Africa but it never happened.

Canada and Australia were definitely built on racism. South Africa was a Dutch colony, not an English one. Compare Indonesia (Dutch colony) to Malaysia (British colony) and you will see the difference. Or Suriname (Dutch colony) to Guyana (British colony). It's why New York seems so *foreign* to the United States. Because it is!

OP's model is nice looking.

R30 Those popping veins... yuck.

R29 Good point that’s often neglected, New York culture is practically Amsterdam transplanted.

R32 Please, NY hasn't been "Dutch" since it changed its name....

Boers are some of the most beautiful men in the world.

R34 They are inbred.... if you find that "beautiful".

Black American here who's never left the states but here's my take on it.

SA had a unique form of racism, apartheid, which codified the native Africans and mixed-blood people's discrimination. They did this in the US at one time too, but it was always cloaked under "separate but equal", and whites in the US have had a bit more morality when dealing with black people. Because of this, there were some blacks who could get an education and move up in society. Remember the US was founded at least partly by religious people. Not excusing anything but that left enough room for some blacks to move up. SA seemed very inflexible in this regard -- no provisions for education, their communities or townships were little more than wastelands and they were not allowed to live in the cities around the other whites. They couldn't vote at all. At least in the US, there were opportunities for the blacks to improve their lots (there are countless examples of blacks doing great things even during the slave years), that weren't available to black SA's.

Their system was very rigid and relegated the blacks there to non-personhood -- not a slave, but not a person either and other than them working for the whites, they were to be separated. And that's why they never developed any type of professional class; black/colored people who managed to get an education, acquire trade skills, operate businesses. I'm sure there were a few blacks who got educations and did low-level clerk jobs, but not enough to be able to take over an entire government.

And also in the US, while they were seen as subhuman, there were always efforts to bring blacks into the Christian church. And black churches were a form of organization, a way for them to come together.

You're being way to complimentary to Americans. Apartheid set aside black homelands. Yes, Transkei was poorer than Haiti. But apartheid did not insist on African differentness in the same way that segregation did, and that's why it was done away with in such a short time, while the segregation mindset still continues in the USA. Segregation said, blacks are a different species from us and you could catch something from drinking from the same water fountain. Aparthed said, it's our country but you can have your own, here in this desert we set aside for you. Way less personal.

The food's very heavy, right? Lots of BBQ, etc.

R38, beef or cow?

Is "Corbus" an Afrikaner name? Holy shit...

R39, cows' flesh.

I don't like how they use Photoshop to hide the VPL (visible penis line) at R40.

All I have to say is, KILL THE BOER!!!!!!!!!

R36 SA treated Native Africans like Americans treated Native Americans. Blacks brought to America were very much an integral part of American society first as slaves and then as a "lower" class.

This is so funny to read all these S African stories all of a sudden because I was planning a 2019 trip over there. I've decided to skip that shit till the find some fresh water and a mutual respect.

Corbus has a 4-pack. Bad genetics.

Cobus - not Corbus - VPL here.

I remember when RHOA went to south Africa in their season 4 trip. It looked nice to me. But then again they we're in cape town.

We’re in Cape Town too.

r2 that is a load of bullshit.

My Saffa friends bend over backwards to embrace coloureds, blacks and Indians to the point of agreeing that 'Rhodes must fall.' Unfortunately there are just too many issues with past misdeeds and corruption.

I don't blame the blacks, they were treated so poorly, but the whites built up the country...

R50 says R2 is full of shit due to one sentence he disagrees with yet every other comment is pretty much saying the same thing R2 said but in more detail. I'm R2 darling, and what I said is very much not bull shit. Just because you have friends who "care" about the minorities in South Africa doesn't mean the black experience in that country isn't real. Just because white liberals in the U.S.A have black friends, doesn't mean they actually give two shits about the black experience in America. Check yourself.

Canada and Australia are not good comparisons. Canada has benefited from its location. It's connected to a stable world power (US), and a continent that is not in ruins because of mass poverty. Australia flourished because it doesn't have the baggage of dealing with hostile countries. It's pretty much isolated and has aligned with world powers (US) that have guarded their interests.

South Africa doesn't have that benefit.

[quote] Australia flourished because it doesn't have the baggage of dealing with hostile countries.

New Zealanders can be extremely rude and hostile. One raised an eyebrow at me once when I used the wrong sort of tea leaves

R25 found the movie - Skoonheid/Beauty. Awful attack scene.

Life's rough now.

[R53] Australia flourished because it doesn't have the baggage of dealing with hostile countries. New Zealanders can be extremely rude and hostile. One raised an eyebrow at me once when I used the wrong sort of tea leaves

New Zealand is not Australia, any more than Canada is the USA.

My friends in western cape mentioned that the water rationing has worked! they will have water for the limited future, as opposed to NONE as of today

Life was always rough in South Africa. I'm not seeing that as a big change. And the government is constitutionally responsible for health care, which puts them one up on American poor.

R53 Australia got it easy so far. Asia was in turmoil or under colonial control when the first British convicts were shipped there. But now that Asia is rising, Australia is like a sitting duck. While economically, it should watch out for over dependence on China, it should also watch out for Muslim Indonesia much closer to its shores. Huge population time bomb ticking away there.

Don't be a fool R45. Go! I was there last year for the first time and can't wait to return. Warm, friendly people (black, white, Indian, whatever). Amazing food and wine, jaw dropping scenery and seeing majestic animals in the wild is a transformative experience.

Can be pricey to get there and you'll want to spend a couple of weeks, but once there prices are pretty reasonable (exchange rate is good now).

Modern infrastructure, especially in the cities. You can drink the tap water and not get sick (try doing that in Mexico).

Crime rates are higher but as a tourist you're unlikely to be affected by it. Places like Brazil, Mexico or Jamaica are arguably much worse.

[quote]But now that Asia is rising, Australia is like a sitting duck.

Australia will become closer to the Americas, out of necessity if anything else. Good thing they have N.A. as partners.

Well use the right ones, r53!

I lived in Seth Efrica r51 and the story is much more complex than you can imagine.

New Zealanders sound like Australians on quaalude. They’re unfailingly polite and civil.

Australians sound like Cockneys on speed. They’re typically neither polite or civil but can be very fun.

Europeans killed off most of the native people of Canada and Australia with diseases. The African population was better equipped to deal with European diseases than Europeans were. There were also more of them. They tried to kill off all of them, God knows, but failed.

I’ve been in South Africa several times, both big cities and rural areas. Landscape is very beautiful and the the views from small roads between mountains are breathtakingly beautiful. People have always been very kind nice, no problem at all. But the country is divided. ANC really made things worse for black and poor people. There are very few opportunities for poor black people. Corruption is everywhere and not much money come to townships, which are still huge. Education system needs to be changed.

The violence is there and you must be careful. During daylight and in good areas everything is fine. Without a trusted local you shoulc avoid outdoors after dark. Could be very dangerous. Nelson Mandela Bay is lovely place with long beach, during the day. Nights are very different. A tourist can end up into very bad situation very fast. Stay at the hotel or hotel area. Use a common sense and SA will be lovely place to visit. Yet, the problems remain until ANC will do something.

Sorry for poor language, English is a foreing language for me.

There's an interesting -- and disturbing -- alternate history series, [bold] The Domination of the Draka [/bold] about a South Africa that is deeply militaristic and racist. It starts after the American revolution and ends with the Draka taking over the world.

I am their Queen and Empress and they are all my beloved children and subjects.

But some look funny, smell bad and always are complaining. So unattractive in dark people who are starving. WHY do they not save their energy for more positive things? People without gratitude sometimes deserve their lot in life.

Cecil?

R65 is Madonna, searching for another child to adopt.

Queen Victoria asked Cecil Rhodes whether he was a “woman hater”. He tactfully replied, “How could I dislike a sex to which your Majesty belongs?”

[quote]The food's very heavy, right? Lots of BBQ, etc.

They eat a lot of processed meats. And there is currently a listeria outbreak. 'There have been 948 cases of listeria poisoning in South Africa reported since January 2017, according to Reuters - which the UN calls the largest outbreak ever.'

R65, your English is fine!

Polony cravings hit SA

[quote]Check yourself.

Kindly fuck off R51, and take your wagging finger elsewhere

Are the men really hot?

How does Pretoria compare to DC? With which American city is Cape Town most similar?

No r74. I worked in an office with about 300 of them and about 98% of them were fat, angry and badly dressed.

[quote] With which American city is Cape Town most similar?

San Francisco

Cape Town isn't remotely similar to any American city. It's like Rio but prettier (and safer, believe it or not) It's nothing like San Francisco. More similar to San Diego. Warmer weather, lots of outdoor opportunities. No public transport besides private taxi cabs. Very little individual 'African culture' (that stuff is a show for tourists). CT is super trendy. Brunch restaurants with metal bar stools and Edison bulbs trendy

Do any of you know ChronicBateBoy aka Jerk Off Boy Cape Town?

He died, R79. He ate some listeria franks.

I heard he washed it down with a gallon of cum and then keeled over, r80.

South Africans are optimistic, more so than Americans. That is probably their special gift to the world.

South Africans aren't -optimistic- per say. Those in the slums are just making it thru the day (lots of sitting around doing nothing), the working poor are annoyingly in-your-face "praise his name" christians, the black middle class is exceedingly politically vocal (ANC only), the Indians stick to themselves, the upper class blacks only care for mercs (Mercedes benz) and bars, the Jews and whites are into brunch. However if by optimistic you mean singing all the time, talking over each other, and acting entitled.. then yes

[QUOTE] Europeans killed off most of the native people of Canada and Australia with diseases. The African population was better equipped to deal with European diseases than Europeans were. There were also more of them. They tried to kill off all of them, God knows, but failed.

The first documented cases of Syphilis in Europe were in 1495 in Italy amongst a group of French troops (the French disease) It is a variant of [italic] Treponema pallidum [/italic] which had always been prevalent in all of the known world, but the version from The Americas was more virulent and deadly. Europeans did not have any immunity to the variation.

No cases in excavated human remains can be found before the European contact with The Americas.

How about Cape Coloureds, R83?

[quote] However if by optimistic you mean singing all the time, talking over each other, and acting entitled.. then yes

South Africans, more than any people I've experienced, live for repetition. They love to hear themselves talk, over and over.

Australia treated their indigenous people abysmally and had white codes to keep out non-white immigrants until the 70s. The Canadians have an even worse history with the indigenous peole than we do. No one gets a free ride here......

R66, horrifyingly written, but a fascinating thought experiment

R87, First Nations.

R87 The shortest example of 'Rule' by The British Empire is South Africa, after two very expensive wars with the Boers they extracted themselves as soon as they could.

R87 I don't think that Britain (UK) can really be held responsible for shitty behaviour by convicts that it deported. Britain barely had an adult population of over four million (3.5 million of those were uneducated) to administer and police four hundred million people. It was an expensive operation to run and generally didn't enrich the UK.

Two World Wars totally destroyed it.

[quote] I don't think that Britain (UK) can really be held responsible for shitty behaviour by convicts that it deported.

Read that again but slowly.

I am shocked! Shocked I tell you, by all the blatant racism this thread attracted. It's almost like that's exactly what OP planned.

White South Africans made a huge mistake thinking they could control a country forever while being in the minority. They needed to carve out a section of SA for themselves early on, and remove natives from it until they had the majority within it and let the natives have the rest of the land. They tried to do in the late stage, but then it was too late and the "homelands" were ridiculously drawn. It needed to be simpler, like just drawing a line down the center.

[quote] They needed to carve out a section of SA for themselves early on

The Boers tried that, R93. The British butted in.

R87 Australians were wary of their indigenous people because of the indigenous habit of bashing wives and raping daughters. But that didn't stop the Irishmen raping their females.

They were obliged to foster out so many of the children to stop the indigenous fathers raping them.

I will lie under oath about this if I'm found and dragged into a court of my peers. Over 30 years ago I worked for a major clothing retailer in their catalogue division. Keying in names and addresses to send catalogues was part of my job. The South African Embassy in Washington, DC. requested a catalogue. On the additional address line I keyed in STOP APARTHEID. Unbeknownst to me [I was too stoned to notice a tsunami] there was quite the uproar over this and great lengths were gone to to find out who did it. I was suspected, but it never went beyond that. I found out about this a year later I don't regret it, but I wouldn't do it now,

R96 worked for J. Peterman.

R85 cape coloured are mixed race (in America they'd basically just be light skinned black people) They generally speak Afrikaans as a native tongue or (the younger generation) speak only English. They are often afforded a much higher status (colorism based on skin) and have better education/higher paying jobs. They are wealthy and trendy (often models, actors, tv hosts) if they live literally anywhere in the country outside of the cape flats (lowland slums of Cape Town). Those that do live in the flats are 20kilometers away from the city center and wealthy areas. They are poor but mostly harmless as a tourist would likely only encounter them (i.e. physically see them in real life) on the train platforms while you'd wait to catch a train out to the vineyards east of the city (which I highly recommend). The are super friendly to white people. Do NOT call them black. Big no no

R90 The only British colonies that ever turned a profit were India and Hong Kong. Not even South Africa’s gold and diamonds could pay for the infrastructure and troops required.

R2, I think the Aboriginal people would beg to differ. So would those non-whites who were prevented from emigrating to Australia because of the White Australia policy, which wasn't abolished until the 1970s.

Racism or not, let's all admit that the history and social conflict of SA makes it one of the most fascinating countries to watch in the past, present, and upcoming future

R100 You say "the Aboriginal people would beg to differ".

Can you tell us how many of them you have spoken to?

Were they genuine black Aboriginals wearing a loincloth?

Or were they getting "sit-down money" to sit down?

R102, he's watched Brenton Thwaites films.

R102 He watched that dopey movie with Hugh Jackman and Nicole Kidman and that cute tanned kid

Whites were ethnic Minority in s Africa. Blacks flooded into s a after whites made it prosperous. Oh yeah, did I mention that there were a bunch of violent blacks???? They should have been ruthless like the Canadians. If u don't commit genocide, the other tribe will genocide u.

R105 =

Australia is a bigoted, racist country. Its White Oz policy, its theft of Aboriginal children from their communities to make them "civilized" (Stolen Generation), its entrenched contempt for ethno-religious minorities. It is indeed the Lucky Country, as long as you're White and Xtian.

[quote] Blacks flooded into s a after whites made it prosperous.

Where did the blacks flood into Africa from after the whites made it prosperous? Tunbridge Wells?

R107. Can you tell us how many years you have lived and studied in Australia?

Blacks from other African countries flooded into South Africa. S Africa is a country in Africa. Genocide works. Racial tribes cannot coexist. The world basically went to war against whites in South Africa. Blacks have now murdered off all the the white farmers. Hollywood made up the narrative that whites are evil and the gullible believe it even as they r being raped and murdered by blacks.

R110 = Richard Spencer...time for him to get sucker punched by another antifa member again!

Gauteng (Joburg-Pretoria metro for those who don't know) has some of the nation's most valuable real estate and some of the biggest infrastructure in place. OR Tambo airport can accommodate long-haul flights. Jacob Zuma is gone now. Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe was forced out, so maybe - just maybe - South Africa's people can use this opportunity to embark on a forward-thinking journey.

Wouldn't it be something to see a promising SA rise while the current US slowly dies under Trump & the republicunts?

I don't get why gays are so antiwhite and pro foreigners. Trump and Bush are very liberal. We live in an ultra liberal society thanks to prosperity given to us by hardworking Republicans. Being gay is very difficult, but that is nobody's fault. If there was a pill to make u straight, most of u would take that pill. There is nothing Republicans can do to make gayness go away. Republicans did not cause u to become gay. Humans are tribal. The tribe with the mist people win. You are members of the white tribe so defend whites in all parts of the world

Is the Protea hotel chain any good?

The racism in this thread would be funny if it wasn't so retrograde.

DC is much larger than Pretoria. More diverse, too.

The Russian troll at 113 is sooo obvious.

Retrograde to what, R115?

The Onward March of Marxism, Christianity, Muhammudinism, Utopianism?

What?

R109 I was born there, mate. First-hand knowledge of the bigotry, discrimination and racism those Aussies don't give a bloody stuff about.

R119 Have you deserted your compatriots?

Why?

[quote]South Africa was built on racism. Canada and Australia weren't.

LOL... Until the 70s Australia still had its "White Australia" immigration policy. In the 30s when Britain wanted to resettle Jews to the sparsely populated Northwestern part of the continent (Around Broome), the Prime Minister said, "No, way once they are here, they'll become citizens and move to Sydney and Melbourne."

Canada had horrible racist policies. The slaves to escaped into Canada, found the laws were so repressive, that they couldn't get jobs and most returned to the Northern USA, even with the threat of recapture because they couldn't live in Canada. One exception was a by the government of what is now British Columbia which wanted blacks as a way to prevent annexation by the USA.

South Africa's white population has always been on par with the Western European standards and economy. So was the white population of Rhodesia, Kenya and Portuguese in Angola and Mozambique.

It the preponderance of low IQ, over the tipping point. Same eternal challenge in Haiti. Two completely different histories of freedom. Black with equal rights just a few decades in SA, a few centuries in Haiti. Nervertheless Haiti exploited and robbed AS IF it was a colony when it wasn't. Both places have many lovely people, mind you. But how do you build a globally competitive economy if too many of the population is borderline retarded and doesn't even get a good education to be the highest functioning with what the have got.

The same trend in many countries. Where the poorest set become stupider over the generations because the any normal IQs and above escape, and don't marry dumb-dumbs themselves.

"..too many of the population is borderline retarded.."

That phrase comes to mind whenever I see news reports from South Africa with them dancing, chanting and working themselves up to mindless frenzy at funerals and at public meetings.

[quote] Is the Protea hotel chain any good?

It's very boring and corporate. It's fine but nothing special.

I'm sorry I watched that clip from SKOONHEID. Very triggering!

Regardless of race, every SA I've met has gappy teeth. Pretty sure that number is only four, but still. No smiling, please. Scary.

You are a very rude customer, madam!

Don't mean to sound racist, but we have to be honest. It's most likely because of the high percentage of poor black Africans in the population.

[R97], you might very well think that. I couldn't possibly comment.

R129 = Francis Urquhart, the original (and better) Frank Underwood

[QUOTE] R113 I don't get why gays are so antiwhite and pro foreigners. Trump and Bush are very liberal. We live in an ultra liberal society thanks to prosperity given to us by hardworking Republicans. Being gay is very difficult, but that is nobody's fault. If there was a pill to make u straight, most of u would take that pill. There is nothing Republicans can do to make gayness go away. Republicans did not cause u to become gay. Humans are tribal. The tribe with the mist people win. You are members of the white tribe so defend whites in all parts of the world

Just one question, Do you have a passport and have you ever visited a European country?

The US is only 'Liberal' in comparison to Saudi Arabia and 1930's Nazi Germany.

You're right, R128.

There's a whole mess of poverty-stricken, angry, machete-wielding blacks in South Africa just eager to take up their cudgels and get rid of the whiteys by hook or by crook, by rope or by gun.

Have you seen that Youtube video of the 'Necklace Lynchings' in South Africa. The mob place a petrol-filled rubber-car-tyre around the neck and then they set that rubber tyre alight.

The lucky ones die; the unlucky ones don't.

R113

Forgot to ask where in the western world it is 'difficult to be gay'?

My Partner and I have lived on the same 'Cul de Sac' of 30 houses in Northern England since 1996, we get invited to every party and are Godfathers to two of our neighbor's children

Maybe it's as difficult as you would like to make it?

[quote]The US is only 'Liberal' in comparison to Saudi Arabia and 1930's Nazi Germany.

Just when you thought that DL posters had reached the woefully ignorant cunt pinnacle, R131 posts to prove that there are heights yet unscaled.

[quote]Blacks from other African countries flooded into South Africa.

There is racism in SA towards these migrants, too. I know a Kenyan woman who went to SA to take up a job offer as a research assistant. She has a PhD. She was treated like dirt by black South Africans, and was miserable.

R131 you’re a fool. Racism or not, the US is still much more free and liberal than many countries. For example Russia, China, Indonesia.

Just because it isn’t paradise doesn’t make it Nazi Germany.

R135 that’s because racism and treating others poorly is not an exclusively white phenomenon. There have been African genocides too. And African tribes sold captured people from other tribes into slavery. This doesn’t excuse what whites did but to think if white people didn’t exist everything would be utopia is a false vision.

The Dutch didn't know how to colonize for the long haul

Many white South Africans are hot AF.

[quote] Many white South Africans are hot AF.

Totally agree.

When I went to SA about 6 years ago, the Afrikaans men were a bit redneck, wore very short shorts, and were very hot. That said, I’m not a fan of pretty boys so YMMV

Are white South Africans of mostly Dutch ancestry, or English/Scots?

The former, R141, and one can easily tell the difference.

When Arthur Ashe visited South Africa in the seventies, the coloured population criticized him for spending too much time with the black South Africans. One leader told him that he was there to help out the Cape Coloreds, not the blacks. Go figure.

Lets name even one sub Saharan country thats anywhere near a rousing economic, political or even social success.

Time saver...the answer is, not even one.

All toilets, all economic basket cases.

Africa would die of starvation & self inflicted genocide without foreign aid.

No continent has been pillaged and raped like Africa, save for the Americas and Australia...millions murdered and exterminated by white people.

Namibia!

Sorry to disagree but the worst thing that ever happened to Africa was foreign aid. The countries were a lot better off decades ago. Most could feed themselves. Now they depend on it . So they move to the big cities and end up in horrendous slums. Read a couple of books of what foreign aid has done to Africa

R141 and R142, the Dutch and British ancestry is split about half/half today. With some people it is very easy to tell physically. Others not. Afrikaaners in the cape are shorter tanner and more muscular.. but probably bc they do love to gym and tan (dudebros). Brits are pale lanky and trendy (hipsters). Brits live in Johannesburg, Durban and the wealthy inner city Cape Town. Afrikaaners live in Pretoria, the small country towns and the far suburbs of Cape Town. Brits are wealthier and fashionable, afrikaaners are sporty. Brits have a much much prettier accent. Take your pick

Botswana has done pretty well for itself.

It's a united kingdom, R149.

r148 what about other European heritage amongst South Africans? German, Italian, Scandinavian etc. Are there significant percentages, or is it mostly a very small fraction of the population?

R144, Nigeria now has the highest GDP in Africa and is considered a fast up and coming economy.

Whites should consider themselves lucky and try to preserve the conditions we have. Economics is not fair and produces lots of losers. Groups of people always band together to gain advantage in this unfair world. Catholics vs protestants, rich vs poor, Dark skin black vs lighter skin black, English speaking vs non English, educated vs uneducated, Brown eye vs blue eye, gay vs straight. Life is similar to survivors island. You want your group strong. Being a Minority means u get screwed.

Equatorial Guinea is the richest of the black states of Africa, so they say, on a per capita basis.

Jesus Christ, R2---such ignorance about Australia!

The Australian government used to kidnap aborigine children and throw them into youth centers to "grow up white".

R141, The Afrikaners welcomed thousands of French Huguenots into their fold and, due to their similar religious beliefs, there was a lot of intermarriage between the two groups. By the mid 18th century, the French Huguenots ceased being a distinct group. French surnames like De Clercq, Therond, and Villion became "Dutchified" into De Klerk, Theron, and Viljoen.

Dutch & south African whites give me the creeps. The s/a accent is THE ugliest one on the planet.

Ahem. This all very interesting , but can we get back to discussing beautiful big steely-eyed evil arrogant Afrikaner meat please ? What is Oskar Pretoria doing these days ? Getting pegged ?

R157 Ugly ? You've obviously never had a big blond selfish South African asshole grunting slurs into your ear in bed.

R151, there is actually quite a large Jewish population based in Johannesburg. Wealthy, keep to themselves, have their own private schools and are pretty observant. Half look like American Jews (meh) half look like handsome Brits wearing yarmulkes. Many Americans live in SA for work (business in Johannesburg) and study abroad (in Cape Town). Engineers and doctors are brought in from Germany (all blond tall and handsome). Plenty of Australians backpacking in mountains and staying in hostels. Dutch exchange students at universities is common but they leave immediately after the school year (culture shock is too much). Like r156 said the Huguenots intermarried long ago but very rarely you'll see the french descent boys with jet black hair, pale skin, and icy blue eyes who come from vineyard owning families

Thank goodness I have not r159! The South African accent is indeed the rumplefugliest accent of all.

Thank goodness I have not r159! The South African accent is indeed the rumplefugliest accent of all.

R158. Afrikaaners are generally brown eye, brown hair, uncut, average size. Very aggressive tops. No bottoming sucking touching or kissing. Pistorius is in prison

Correction: Le Clercq -> De Klerk

[quote]Lets name even one sub Saharan country thats anywhere near a rousing economic, political or even social success.

Botswana.

R155 No, keep your retro-active hysteria in check!

Religious charities and welfare groups arranged for the orderly fostering (with permission) of vulnerable children who were getting raped by the men of the tribe.

What’s it like as an American to visit SA? I’m a relatively light skinned mixed race 25 year old guy (black/white)

R167 Go there!

There will some turmoil during the coming Civil War.

But there'll be EXCELLENT opportunities for sensible men to lead the Reconstruction of the New Black South Africa after the war.

Botswana & especially Nigeria, are corrupt, poverty stricken toilets.

I'd love to see The Billionaire Oprah go and set up a new Queendom to oversee the Reconstruction of the New Black South Africa after the coming Civil War and the elimination of those awful Whiteys.

they need birth control over ther.....too dam many of em...lordy

R167, you should go!!! Do a few days in either Kruger park (safari) or the drakensburg mountains and then do a few days in Cape Town (beach)! You'll be fine. Nobody will give you trouble, keep your mouth shut around blacks (your voice and "American teeth" will give you away and they'll know to rip you off) and use your accent to let whites know that you're American and they'll be extra careful not to seem inadvertently racist around you

[quote]Equatorial Guinea is the richest of the black states of Africa, so they say, on a per capita basis.

Equatorial Guinea has a population of just over a million people. It was so poor when it gained independent from Spain in 1968 that it reportedly offered neighboring Cameroon a million dollars to administer it. Today it's one of the fastest growing economy in sub-Saharan Africa due to oil.

But as with every other country in Africa due to tribalism, the leaders and their families soon begin to treat the national treasury as their own private funds.

Equatorial Guinea leader's son found guilty of embezzlement by French court

Millions of euros of assets belonging to the son of Equatorial Guinea’s president were ordered to be seized by a French court that found him guilty in absentia on Friday of using money plundered from his country to buy property and luxury cars.

Now Zuma was a thief.

watch ur purse of u go there or to bad side of Chicago !!!!

SA is fucked. They're going through a massive water shortage. Bye bye wine business, and also potable drinking water.

Went there in 1991 when apartheid was gone in theory but not in practice. Capetown and the Cape of Good Hope were incredibly beautiful. Johannesburg was like a guerrilla city. It has such amazing natural resources, shame about the politics.

There is a simple reason South Africa didn’t become a white majority colony like Canada, or Australia (or the U.S.) - the native population in Africa was not wiped out by European diseases like smallpox.

Thats why North America and Australia were relatively easy to repopulate with Europeans - native Americans and Aboriginal peoples were killed in droves by disease

R163, do Africaaners only fuck white dudes or would they ever fuck with the coloureds?

I’m also a young, light skinned black guy, pretty and want to know how I’d fare.

I did the Grindr location search in Cape Town and saw very, very few non-white guys. Some Asians, some coloureds, but no blacks. They must really be poor.

I went to an ice skating show and never saw so many gorgeous blond men. Obviously Afrikaner queens.

ya, I had more sex with Nordic gods there than any where else

R163, generally gay afrikaaners would not fuck an average coloured guy.. unless he is very attractive (which does happen quite often). You might have a chance being American. Your issue is that Grindr is not big in SA. Use online sites instead, not phone apps. But be very careful about who you meet. Black gay culture in SA is generally 'all out "out" and proud femme' or nothing at all.

^ adding on, your best bet is meeting guys in person old school style in the Cape Town gay bars

Cairo is the same, R183.

Being gay at all in Cairo is asking to get yourself beaten at best, arrested at worst

Damn, Harry's has been closed. I just looked it up, I had no idea.

In S/A, what's coloured as opposed to black?

guys like Trevor Noah, R187.

So light skinned blacks are "coloured?"

R179 here, just did another remote search on Grindr, this time in Pretoria.

Holy. Fucking. Shit.

The men are fucking gorgeous. Both the white men, and the few coloureds... so many ridiculously fit, statuesque guys with perfect features.

By American standards, I’m told I’m beautiful, but these men are admittedly on another level.

R187, the coloureds are the mixed race people, whether of white, Khoisan, Bantu, Indonesian/Malay, Indian, etc., heritage.

Oh, ok. Thanks r191.

R179, you'd have no shot in Pretoria. That's jilted city afrikaaner territory. They're the most racist by far. The inner city racial conflict is too much. They're sick of being ground down by age 19. They've been mugged one too many times. Constantly hear how racist their people are. Continuely told that their self worth is lucky skin colour and not their own efforts. The afrikaaners in coastal towns (port E, knysna) and in Cape Town are much nicer (and open sexually)

I worked two South African whites at my old accounting firm. Both of them were very nice, and very kind to their black secretaries (one of whom was gay). She was Jewish - her grandparents emigrated from Nazi Europe. Her husband was not very friendly though. We had a farewell party for her when she got this great job in California. He refused to shake the hands of any of the black attendees at the party for her. I didn't care too much for him either, but she was a sweetheart. The other guy married an American southern woman, they have some of the most beautiful children I have ever seen. He as also very nice.

But . . . you're blek

How will Africa fare with all the development China is bringing to the continent? I am surprised that this has not been mentioned so far. Does China have an interest and/or presence in SA?

Some have mentioned that China is interested in Africa only for China's benefit. I can see how this could be so.

[quote]Some have mentioned that China is interested in Africa only for China's benefit.

Well, no shit. China is only out for China.

Maybe China will benefit Afrca ....

No they won't. They will make cheap improvements that won't last and the Africans will not have the money to upkeep it just like it has been going on for decades.

[quote]The Second Boer War, also known as the Second Anglo-Boer War, the Second Freedom War (Afrikaans) and referred to as the South African War in modern times took place from 11 October 1899 – 31 May 1902. The war was fought between Great Britain and the two independent Boer republics of the Orange Free State and the South African Republic (referred to as the Transvaal by the British). After a protracted hard-fought war, the two independent republics lost and were absorbed into the British Empire.

[quote]In all, the war had cost around 75,000 lives – 22,000 British soldiers (7,792 battle casualties, the rest through disease), 6,000–7,000 Boer Commandos, 20,000–28,000 Boer civilians, mostly women and children due to disease in concentration camps, and an estimated 20,000 black Africans, Boer allies, who died in their own separate concentration camps. The last of the Boer forces surrendered in May 1902 and the war ended with the Treaty of Vereeniging in the same month. The war resulted in the creation of the Transvaal Colony which in 1910 was incorporated into the Union of South Africa. The treaty ended the existence of the South African Republic and the Orange Free State as Boer republics and placed them within the British Empire.

Although I'm sure there have been earlier instances, it was the British who introduced the world to concentration camps.

OK, not to derail a thread, but has anyone else noticed the red flags that have started to show up, for example, at R93?

I don't see it on the page itself, but I do in your pop-up, r201.

It's 2006 again! Maybe threads will once more be lit up like Christmas trees!

Same here r202, only saw it in the pop up after it was pointed out.

China's improvements brings giant piles of debt to a continent that can't afford it.

Trust me, Chinese colonialism is going to make European colonialism look like fucking Disneyland.

Who's doing these red flags & how?

watch ur back at night !!!

Are there any South African porn stars?

I find it a lot like Canada and Australia, so I question OP's premise.

Regarding Chinese in Africa, I rarely that presence being questioned in the main stream press. In fact, I rarely see it mentioned at all. I agree with the posters upthread, that their interest in Africa is for China's benefit primarily. Seems like neo-colonialism.

I was not aware that China is also active in the Caribbean as well as throughout South America. Apparently, China shows up with big financial aid packages and the like, all for exclusive trade deals.

It doesn't seem like neo-colonialism, R210, it IS colonialism.

R211, I agrree. But do the people of Africa see this?

[quote] Cape Town isn't remotely similar to any American city. It's like Rio but prettier (and safer, believe it or not)

That's setting a very low bar. Berlin in 1945 was safer then Rio.

[quote] Jacob Zuma is gone now. Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe was forced out, so maybe - just maybe - South Africa's people can use this opportunity to embark on a forward-thinking journey.

Don't count on it.

That clip in r54 is brutal and violent! Hats off to the actor who played the victim. Most actors with any ambition to be a star would be too chicken to play a rape victim... something like that could ruin your image as a movie star.

R215, I agree, but unfortunately that actor, Charlie Keegan, didn't make it big (yet).

His gf looks young...

Here's the BBC's Rhodes miniseries. They use a hot actor to play young Rhodes. They address the gay stuff later on when he gets a blonde twink to be his secretary.

Boy, Charlie Keegan is a pretty mofo...of course he's straight.

R219, he should have used the movie to find representation in Hollywood. Instead he stayed in South Africa.

More models please. How's the gay scene in Cape Town?

Looks fun, R221.

If you want the truth I suggest you go to a place where the truth won’t be blocked out and the poster won’t be labeled a vicious troll. South Africa has had real problems for a very long time not unlike the rest of the continent.

China is the new colonizer of Africa

Do you recommend any sites for what is happening? One rarely hears about events in Africa. Where on the 'net do you recommend? This is a serious question. Yes, I know, I will do a search.

Do Caucasians in Cape Town feel isolated from the rest of the world? I don't mean anything negative about anyone here: I just mean, since they're a minority and in a somewhat "far away" country, do they feel isolated? I've heard Australians of all ethnicities feel the same way.

Cape Town is the safest large city?

r225, the Caucasians who remained (thousands emigrated) isolated themselves along the Western Cape. Many still have ties in Europe, especially the UK. Most of them that did feel isolated and/or threatened have already left the country.

r224 I'd start with Reuters Africa. The Financial Times (sub required) is also good. I only get their articles when they're quoted elsewhere, but they are a different source than the usual mainstream media. They're still the 1% though, so you still need to take them with a grain of salt.

If you're interested in background, good books have been written on it, including The Looting Machine by Tom Burgiss (sp?).

I always found out the most about what was going on there by reading about other topics, like American foreign policy, mining and aviation. Google "aviation South Africa" and you'll go down a very interesting and informative info hole. It leads to many places and stories all over the continent.

R3, their IQs are higher than 65. Jeeze.

What's the big sport there?

From what I gather Rugby union and cricket are popular. Football (soccer) not so much, although both black and white SAs follow international teams.

This is Eben Etzebeth, Western Cape native and Springbok rugby captain.

EFF leader Julius Malema says black people do not have human rights‚ because they are “subhuman”.

“Your humanity has been taken away by an evil system of capitalism that produces racism. Blacks are not human. Blacks are subhuman. That’s why they can die in Life Esidimeni.”

Malema was in firebrand mode on Wednesday during his speech in Ermelo in Mpumalanga on Human Rights Day.

He said human rights and land ownership were intertwined.

“There are no human rights in a shack.”

He called Australia racist for planning to fast-track visas for white South African farmers. Australian Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton singled out white South African farmers’ need to flee “horrific circumstances” for a “civilised country”.

Malema said if white South Africans farmers want to pack for Perth‚ they must go.

“They must leave the keys of the tractors‚ because we want to work the land. They must leave the keys of the houses‚ because we want to stay in those houses.”

--------------------

This is headed towards SUCH a trainwreck.

r231 ironically, Zimbabwe officials have started to discuss the prospect of allowing the white farmers back to work their land under new guidelines because the country collapsed without them.

Oh, and for those who enjoy a wider taste in hot Springbok players, Tendai Mtawarira--the original Beast Mode.

Is Virgin Active their version of Equinox?

I'm going to visit, but Cape Town only. How is South African Airlines?

R233 I’ve taken SAA’s donestic flights, good planes and service. No problems.

R234, is it polished? Like, are the lounges nice? Any special perks or amenities?

R233, I've flown South Afircan in both business and economy class. Economy class is fine, with decent air hostesses and edible, if not great meals. Domestic flights are short and fine; nothing remarkable other than the scenary. Business class is a very good value for the price. More male (older) flight attendants than female. Formal in a somewhat date manner, but that's appreciated by me. The food, of course, is better than in Economy with several choices. Full incline , wide seat and, best of all, a good selection of SA wines

There was a South African pornstar who worked for Michael Lucas... Ivan something. Afrikaaner. He escorted for a while. I met him and he was very nice. I saw some pics from his work as a dancer in gay clubs in SA, and the other guys were super hot.

R236, do you feel at all that things are spinning out if control, and/or are things better now that Zuma is gone? Is Cape Town really in decline, or is that perhaps just racist bullshit?

R236, I haven't been to SA in a couple of years, so don't get much of a sense of things being better after Zuma. My SA friends, including my beach friends there, are happy he's gone, but see the new guy as only marginally better and more presentable (the stink of sleaze is not so evident on this one). The last time I was in Cape Town was two years ago, and it was fine. That was before the water crisis, however. I've seen two very different sides of SA: 1.) bland, business, mostly white and 2.) scenes of family life, also mostly white, but with revealing glimpses into how the majority black population lives. It's not as bad as in other parts of Africa is about the best I can say about the lives of black South Africans. There are genuine fears among the white people I met (mostly of English descent) and among the black population the view that their government and the ANC use them, but that short-term and long-term prospects for them are bleak. The ANZ, and thus the government, is thoroughly corrupt and cares not a bit for the people who voted for them.

Thank you for this thread.

It reminded me about the South African group I used to follow religiously about 5 or 6 years ago .

Antwoord! with Ninja and the fabulous Yo-landi Vi$$er!

re visiting all their vids as I type.

Skoonheid/Beauty makes present day SA look like the 1980s. Depressing.

I didn't understand the ending. Did he pay the young guy not to say anything?

I lived in The Netherlands for 4 years and found there was two subjects that would stop conversation in a social setting. Stop it stone cold dead.

One was asking about WWII. The Dutch declared neutrality and they were simply invaded and treated abominably. Older Dutch people remain seethingly angry and anti-German to this day.

The second was asking about South Africa. They all stiffen and the room becomes silent if you mention it. The Dutch are absolutely horrified by the history and what the Boeren did in South Africa and go to great lengths to distance themselves from the peasant "Farmers" (Boeren) who emigrated and wrecked such havoc on South Africa with Apartheid etc. They were very angry that it has tarnished their nation permanently.

I quickly learned not to ask about either subject.

[quote]He called Australia racist for planning to fast-track visas for white South African farmers. Australian Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton singled out white South African farmers’ need to flee “horrific circumstances” for a “civilised country”.

The idiotic Aussie Home Affairs Minister really did white South Africans a disservice with this statement. First, he falsely assumed they want to leave: most don't. And many of those that do try to return due to nostalgia and struggling to adjust to the constraints of western life. South Africa, for all it's high crime, offers a lifestyle they can't replicate in their new countries.

Second, and worst of all, he's made whites a target and encouraged those who want to see them leave so they can take over the farms and wealth. He's reinforced the view that white people really don't belong in Africa, that they have their own people who will give them special treatment and welcome them with open arms should they choose to move. Now people like Julius Malema have something to aim for - keep agitating until the white "invaders" leave. Very stupid of him.

Some white South Africans are opting to move to other parts of Africa (particularly Namibia, Botswana and Kenya) because they see themselves as really African and don't want to live in Europe, America or Australia.

I take it that may be why Boeren don't return to the Netherlands. And thank you for that post, R243. I always wondered about how the Dutch think about WW2.

R227, thank you. I will try Reuters Africa. By accident, I came across an article by accident about China's presence in the Caribbean as well as South America. China is throughout those regions. China shows up and will spend millions on a nation in order to have access to mineral wealth. This is something one never, ever hears about on the nightly news. So, it looks like China is doing this everywhere, not just Africa.

R245, the Chinese have a very long view. Their "colonialism" is far preferable to previous versions.

The Chinese have essentially pushed the British out of Africa.

Will not end well.

Zimbabwe all over again, R248. Hope they leave before it's too late.

No one here is acknowledging the injustice of black people being robbed of their land. Can you imagine if black people moved to Europe and owned most of the resources at the expense of the natives?

Yeah but at this point, R250, it's likely that if the land were taken back, it might be a disaster. See what happened in Zimbabwe. The most fertile land taken, and now they can't feed themselves.

It's happening anyway, r251. The majority are getting restless and the likes of Julius Malema will be swept to power if nothing is done.

I'm going to visit Cape Town before it's destroyed. What's an excellent hotel to stay at? Trendy, modern, very comfortable?

Hands down the best looking guys n the planet, tall but baby faced, a great combo of Dutch and British. Lots of floppy hair too. Beautiful landscapes too.

Too bad it all seems to be going to Hell. I actually lived in downtown Jo'burg. Doubt I could do that now (to be fair, it wasn't completely safe then either).

I have no sympathy for Afrikaners...none whatsoever.

Next thing you know, Trump will allow them to emigrate to the US.

[quote] [R2] Canada has made some advances in becoming less racist, but it has its own deplorables in the flyover provinces.

This is true, but please don't pretend that deplorables exist only in the flyover provinces. The PC's in Ontario just elected Doug Ford as their leader, and some of the most racist Canadians (along with government implemented racist policies) are in Quebec. You're either an American R2 that knows little about Canada, or else you're from Ontario.

Which black people r250? Most of the people living there black or white have no ancestral claim to the land.

agree with [R257]. Read the history of SA and one would soon to find out most of the blacks in SA moved to this country after Afrikanners.

R258, can you please suggest a book?

r257 spewing apartheid talking points that South Africa was uninhabited when the first white people arrived. Bullshit easily discredited by archeology.

Good news

South African whites are not innocent victims, that's for sure. Some would argue that if they get kicked out, it will be because they deserve it.

Lovely. Not being sarcastic.

Evil fraus go to prison. Awesome.

She'll fit right in in Australia.

White South African accents are awful.

Wow some of you really hate yourselves don’t you? Whites are the worst and yet Canada, Australia, NewZealand and the US , these rascist , intolerant countries that is where everyone wants to go. Why? Surely many of you who have pointed out the intolerance in these countries are actively seeking to leave and move to somewhere like Africa?

My best friend left South Africa after she was attacked twice by a knife. Once when she was 5 months pregnant. Her friends were murdered in a hold up at their business. Over 73, 000 farmers have been killed and murdered since Apartheid ended.

You may think they deserve it. Me I ,think South Africa has gone to shit. Some of you seem to think that that the world was a Disney Utopia before Whites came into the scene. In this you are deluded.

So r267, it's gone to shit because whites now have it bad, but was fine when blacks were suffering?

You seriously think blacks aren't suffering there NOW? They got a vote, sure, but millions of them are still living in cardboard shacks. You haven't seen a shantytown until you've been to South Africa. Horrifying -- and I am not talking long ago either.

And millions of blacks have joined the middle-class when there used to be none.

Interesting, one of the best books on South Africa is "Kaffir Boy", written by a young man who grew up in Soweto, surely still in print (Oprah was interested in a film version for a while). But the multiple use of "the K word" is what got that woman put in jail. That's a major change.

There were middle class blacks living in nice houses, even in Soweto, too back in the '80s -- and magazines and TV shows designed for them. So that's not new. But none of it matters if the poverty (and subsequent crime) doesn't get "fixed". If that's possible. I don't know anymore.

Shame too, such a great country. As someone once said about Africa, "You can feel God in the air there."

No where on earth, has a minority immigrated then lorded over the natives. Nowhere!

R269 True, big townships and very little opportunities to people living in them.

[quote]Over 73, 000 farmers have been killed and murdered since Apartheid ended.

OMG - killed AND murdered??!!

That is why the government is going to appropriate all that white-owned land. The majority blacks are getting restless and the government can't risk a revolt.

Whites should just leave that country, every single one of them. Ironically, it’s the best way for racist whites to punish SA. White South Africans can live much safer and probably a happier existence in a white majority country. However SA will grind to a halt in 2 seconds without its white population. Australia is in talks to take them in, , they should accept the offer.

[quote]White South Africans can live much safer and probably a happier existence in a white majority country.

They cannot. They'll be stuck in tiny apartments with no privilege. Many are used to huge acreage, large houses and easy earnings.

[quote] Some of you seem to think that that the world was a Disney Utopia before Whites came into the scene.

We wuz kingz!

Truth is white people have wreaked havoc away from Europe. Every major protracted conflict, like the problems in the middle east, are their fault.

Truth is r279 without Western Civilzation we would be fucked. Utterly fucked. So before everyone starts on the we are all bigots and it is a White person thing , let’s point out some simple facts. Slavery and taking over parts of the world has been with the entire world forever.

The West was the first civilisation in history to stop slavery.

We fall over ourselves to atone for the sins of our forefathers. Do you think Turkey cares about what it did to 1 million Armenians? Do you think China gives one flying fuck about human rights? Do you think Islam was some Buddhist like Religion until the West got hold of it? Do you think all the native peoples of the world just were like noble savages?

Grow the fuck up. If you are going to blame White people for the mistakes they made, do you give them the same courtesy in everything good they did.?

I can’t believe in 2018 we are now as much about race as 1950s America was. We have gone back in time. Instead of moving forward we have moved back.

[quote]They cannot. They'll be stuck in tiny apartments with no privilege. Many are used to huge acreage, large houses and easy earnings.

That small apartment will start to look pretty good once SA circles further towards the drain. However there is a middle ground, communities like Orania. A white only town. But they’ll eventually get massacred too, black SAs are already annoyed with them. So not a long lasting solution.

@R280 you are absolutely right.

[quote]However there is a middle ground, communities like Orania.

Can you imagine if immigrants tried that shit in Europe? And they have the nerve to say they're going to try for an independent republic within South Africa? Anyway, they better take that offer from Australia because such gated communities masquerading as independent nations will be the first to be targeted by the government's land reallocation drive, coming soon.

Seriously, those whites are something else. They complain about crime in a country where the majority live below the poverty line, yet they don't want to leave and want to start a separatist homeland just for whites. In Africa!

[quote] Because South Africa was built on racism. Canada and Australia weren't. Canada and Australia didn't believe in racism

Do tell!

[quote]Can you imagine if immigrants tried that shit in Europe?

The Muslims have already done this. It’s called no-go zones. Fire and ambulance crews who try enter have to have police escort because they are not welcome on “Muslim land” even to HELP them! And the politicians don’t care, they are the ones who invited them.

America is a mess because of colonialism, racism, corruption, greed, and financial inequality.

[quote]Can you imagine if immigrants tried that shit in Europe?

Actually in the current climate countries like Sweden, France and Germany would probably go along with it.

[quote]Seriously, those whites are something else.

But they're so fucking hot though!

you can’t compare the situation of recent immigrants in Europe with whites who have lived in South Africa for hundreds of years, built the country and are then threatened by genocide. When whites arrived, there were hardly black peoples there (except the small tribes of Khoisan) the Bantus and Zulus arrived later like a swarm of locust once they realized whites had built something worthy of taking. THEN suddenly a piece of land they never lived on or cared about became important to them.

[quote]the Bantus and Zulus arrived later like a swarm of locust once they realized whites had built something worthy of taking. THEN suddenly a piece of land they never lived on or cared about became important to them.

This is, of course, historically accurate but not something you hear about much.

R289, link please?

R287 There are areas in Stockholm, Göteborg and Malmö where police won’t go unless it is absolutely necessary. The situation in Sweden is not good, lots of violence in certain areas, Malmö is the worst.

It is the case that whenever a government doesn't try and do the best for as many of their population as they can, that the country becomes dysfunctional and never prospers as it potentially could. South Africa a case in point. That is why democracy often produces the best results in most areas for any country. But it takes time.

Also, with regard to the people mentioning no go areas in Sweden, it would hold some weight if an actual Swede had even some anecdotal evidence to this effect. The same was said about London, and quite frankly, it was a brazen lie told by the man that is now the American president.

And that is one photo at one event, R288. Multiply that by about a million and you get the picture. Gorgeous people.

R220, sounds like he's an acting teacher now, and he is becoming a weight lifter. Looking buff.

[quote]The Bantus and Zulus arrived later like a swarm of locust once they realized whites had built something worthy of taking. THEN suddenly a piece of land they never lived on or cared about became important to them.

Link please. Then I'll prove that black people have been in present day South Africa since pre-historic times. I will also point you to Portuguese explorer Vasco da Gama's records, being first white man to set foot in South Africa, and the peoples he encountered.

Just stop with the apartheid era revisionism.

As for the Trumpist claims of no-go zones in Sweden and France. False. Yes, there are neighborhoods that are majority muslim, that are poorer with higher crime rates that people might feel are unsafe, but those also exist in the U.S. and are not looking to breakaway and form independent nations. There are life-long white Chicagoans that have never set foot in the Southside.

In the 70s, Watts was a no-go area. So was Newark.

Does Cape Town have water again? What are the safe areas?

R297 It wasn’t only Trump that made that claim. Many people have, including Parisians.

I myself accidentally stumbled into no go zone, long before I even knew what such things were. I immediately knew simultaneously I was in danger and that I was in a place totally alien to Paris. It was like Baghdad. Honestly one of the most scary moments of my life and I didn’t really understand what I had seen until at least a couple of years later.

So sorry I do believe there are no go zones and you pretending this is just some Trump thing is dishonest.

R300, what arrondisement where you in?

He's probably talking about majority muslim areas like Sevran where women avoid certain public areas for cultural reasons.

The real no-go zones in Paris

Please note that there is no offer from Australia so stop saying there is.

Peter Dutton, a notorious racist, homophobic, xenophobic pig, mouthed off some ill-thought out crap about fast tracking white South African farmers as refugees and was smacked down by various members of his own government including the Foreign Affairs minister who said there would be no special treatment for any one group of people and Australia's refugee policies would remain as they are.

Just repeating; There is no special treatment or offer for white South Africans.

Whoever he is, he got a lot of international media coverage.

With Winnie Mandela gone, her supporters are likely to follow Julius Mandela. They're a natural fit for that kind of radical politics.

Winnie, who taught me what the word "necklacing" meant when I lived there. Yikes. Always had trouble looking at her the same way again.

I'm going to plan a trip to Cape Town. My one and only time in SA before it...

Their Hamburger Mary's.

Nothing will happen to SA, r308. In fact, it's becoming a better country.

R310, really? How so?

First steps

The Afrikaaners are doomed. Good riddance.

R310, where do you live?

R313: The afrikaners have every right to call that land their home. Many of the oldest families have been resident on the Cape for well over three hundred years. The Xhos and Zulu tribes by contrast only came to the area at a much later period. The African majority shouldn't be allowed to think they can force them out by genocide, which is exactly what is beginning to happen now.

Sorry I meant Xhosa.

Agreed r315. I am sick of this reverse rascist bullshit.

You want to be totally politically correct ? Find out where your fucking ancestors came from and go back.

It is like we cannot help wanting to fuck up our existence. The world has gone fucking insane in the last 10 years or so. It is unbelievable the shit that passes for Liberal now.

R19, you are wrong. The Belgians made the Dutch look like amateurs in the colonial racist sweepstakes.

You are correct, r318. One of the main reasons why white settlement in Africa never succeeded like it did in the Americas was the susceptibility of the native Indians to foreign pathogens. Diseases like smallpox, measles and typhoid completely devastated their populations to the point that many native tribes lost up to ninety per cent of their members. That never happened in Africa, and the white colonists always remained a minority.

The farm murders are truly horrifying. I remember watching a documentary by the BBC which followed a police unit that was trying to protect families that were living out on isolated farmsteads. They were constantly under threat of robbery, rape and murder. And this was over twenty years ago, I can't even imagine how bad it must be now.

Which tribe has the coming-of-age ceremony where boys tear apart a tied-down bull with their bare hands? I forgot.

r321 please don't tell me that's true.

R322, it's true. I can't provide a link because it's too painful to see/read it.

It's true.

You can search for it, R322. Our world is so dark. It's things like this that make me hate this world.

There are some things I wish I'd never heard about. I can't stand hearing about animal abuse/torture. Makes me hate humanity.

I'm with you, R322. Let's do what we can to minimize their suffering.

More bullshit from r315 who's been reading his old text books from the apartheid history syllabus. The very first dutch/Afrikaner settlers did not find an empty mass of land. They encountered black people from at least 4 different African tribes. Just stop it with the stupid revisionism. It might work on Stormfront but not here.

R327: They did encounter other African tribes, who were then massacred and replaced by the Xhosa and Zulu. Moreover, how is it bullshit to defend the right of the Afrikans to remain in a country where they and their ancestors have lived for multiple generations.

Many of them have a history in Southern Africa that goes back far further than a lot of white Americans. And, as I've already stated, they have as much right to be there as anybody else.

R328, link please. I want to know the truth.

R329: All you need to do is use google. All the information is available online.

R330, I see both angles. I want to know what reputable sources you based your conclusions on. Please - the Times, the Economist, some Oxford U Press-published books... something reputable. Please.

I'm inclined to believe that the area around the Cape wasn't densely populated - sparely populated, rather. No large permanent settlements, kind of like Namibia and Australia.

R331: It is a certified historical fact that the Afrikaner boers originally began to settle the Cape in large numbers from the mid to late 1600s. By the early 18th century they were joined by a large influx of French Huguenots, who intermarried with the Dutch colonists to the point that the two groups were almost indistinguishable. I don't know why you want me to cite sources, as this is easily verified.

Both the Xhosa and the Zulu were semi nomadic tribes that depended on their livestock, they began to move into into some of the richer pasture land of the now named KwaZulu-Natal, from about the mid 1700s. There were other tribes already in those areas of course, however they were smaller and less warlike. It was under the Zulu King Shaka that many of these smaller tribes were finally forced off the land by the early 1800s, with many being wiped out in violent conflict.

After the British gained control of the cape colonies many of the boers began to chafe under their rule, and, as a result, decided to leave and head further into the interior. These people were known as the trekboers, and initially they were simply looking to settle more land that was as far away from the close scrutiny of the British as possible.

No shortage of black people there and you can’t name one country run by black peopl on par with Canada or Australia.

R291, it’s called reading widely. History can’t always be distilled into a wiki sized article.

R335, nice try.

So go read, r336. That was my point. So many here expect to be spoon fed.

R5, you’re an idiot.

Do you really believe Torontonians, Montrealers, or Vancouverites are less racist than those living in Halifax, Winnipeg, Regina, or Calgary?

How many Swedes are there on Datalounge? Anyway this article may be caked in euphemisms but reading between the lines the implication becomes clear. "...or by reversing their vehicles into the areas in order to make sure they are able to leave quickly if needed." if emergency services get that treatment then what do normal outsiders get? To me that reads like a no-go zone.

They're not migrants but it's important people learn Sweden's mistakes so we don't repeat them.

Me final comment

[quote]No shortage of black people there and you can’t name one country run by black peopl on par with Canada or Australia.

Please. If white people could wipe out black Africans like they did Native Americans and Aborigines the would have. It wasn't for lack of trying. So what they did instead is to corral the majority blacks in every part of Africa where they settled into tiny parcels of unproductive land and try to keep them there. But black Africans being a more resilient people survived and eventually revolted kicking the whites out. It took longer in South Africa because of their numbers but many predicted this day would come as early as 1990. Nelson Mandela managed to calm down the more hot-headed elements that wanted immediate land seizures, which Winnie would be a part of, but as Julius Malema threatened: "When Madiba (Mandela) dies we'll push them back into the sea. Most South Africa watchers aren't surprised.

[R342] But black Africans being a more resilient people survived and eventually revolted kicking the whites out ================= that's simply not true. The aparteid ended because of the pressure from globalist ruling class( international jews and bankers) at the time by threatening, not because of "resilient" non native blacks in SA.

SA will be fully economical colonized by China before 2030 so there is really no point with all of these.

You can tell r343 is straight out of Stormfront with his blaming the "jews" for the end of apartheid. You do realise, South Africa wasn't the only place in Africa where white people grabbed the best land and tried to hang on to power, don't you? Botswana, Namibia, Zimbabwe, Zambia and Kenya were all settler colonies. Whites were kicked out of power in all those countries, violently in places like Zimbabwe and in Kenya by the Mau Mau.

R345: The settlers actually won the war against the Mau Mau. It was the British government who withdrew their support, that eventually allowed independence and black majority rule. In Zimbabwe, the former white minority government under Ian Smith was forced to concede defeat when apartheid South Africa stopped sending arms, petroleum and financial assistance. Zimbabwe was also a landlocked country, they relied on South Africa to ship most of their agricultural products to foreign markets. When all that assistance came to an end they couldn't continue to hold out. South African was actually a close ally of the then Rhodesia, however, after growing pressure from Washington, they struck a deal in which the whites in Zimbabwe would be forced to accept black majority rule, while apartheid South Africa would be able to avoid major sanctions for the time being.

And if you're wondering why apartheid South Africa managed to hold out for another decade look no further than saint Ronnie and the Republicans.

I remember they went and took a poll in Zimbabwe in which they asked if people would still like to be ruled by Ian Smith's government or the ZANU-PF under Robert Mugabe. Ian Smith won by a landslide as the majority of people stated that at least they wouldn't be starving.

[quote] I remember they went and took a poll in Zimbabwe in which they asked if people would still like to be ruled by Ian Smith's government or the ZANU-PF under Robert Mugabe. Ian Smith won by a landslide

Robert Mugabe was a piker.

I’ll bet that the majority of white farmers regret trying to stick it out on their farms now. A lot of the land had some kind of proscription or moratorium placed on how the land could be used, pending government approval. It was put into place after apartheid, to give the land commission time to investigate claims on whether the land had been bought below price or seized illegally. This made a lot of these huge commercial farms worth a fraction of their real value. However it looks like they’re going to be seized anyway, and the farmers are going to get nothing.

They would have been better off just selling up when they had the chance.

People seem to forget that when the Europeans left sub Saharan African countries, they took the money and wealth with them. Africa’s problems took centuries to create ergo centuries to eradicate.

R250 Western South Africa (where the white farms are) was sparsely before colonization. None of the land was “taken” from the blacks.

*sparsely populated

White european settlement of Africa was always doomed. Unlike in the americas, the natives weren’t anymore susceptible to diseases than the europeans. And unlike Australia, the continent wasn’t barely settled by small groups of hunter gatherers.

All this is really fascinating.

r350 and r353 are correct.

The back and forth bickering about who has senior claim to the land is pointless. The group with the biggest population is going to win out at some point.

It's already happening, r356. And there's nothing they can do to stop it.

It's a fun place.

Crumbling.

[quote]When you meet a white person from South Africa, they're amazed to see black people in other countries treated as human beings.

Yep. As a student, I worked in a very affluent suburb of my city where white South Africans and South African Jews emigrated. Basically every customer over 28 was a noticeable bigot - and this is Australia, where any number of nasty racial/sexist/homophobic views are concealed under a jocular veneer of hearty “humour” - and around 3/4 of them did not have the manners to at least affect a politeness to conceal their distaste for anyone not lily white.

They were the most obnoxious, rude and verbally abusive group I came across, even surpassing the newly arrived mainland Chinese and the wealthy high caste Indians. At least the latter groups tend to be hardworking and ambitious so after a year or so of living in the country will necessarily act according to local manners and behaviours when interacting outside of their racial groups, because they want to get ahead. But the South Africans were all richer than God and disdain everyone.

I will say that younger people were much better behaved, at least out of earshot of relatives from the old country.

R361, were they English South Africans or Afrikaners?

God, Australia freaks me out. All those gorgeous men, but they're all fucking racist - even the laid-back surfer guys. Sucks.

R362 Both - also a few “coloured” families - but the Afrikaners were more mean than the English SAs.

R363 Surfers are the worst. The ones than aren’t fun hippies are dudebros and many are in actual criminal gangs!

On the upside there’s very little racial “violence” in Australia and it’s not really segregated and it’s safe to go pretty much anywhere. It’s mostly in the form of “talk” in the sense that if someone says anything racist or homophobic you can call them out and tell them to fuck off without issue provided they are not drunk. But “bloke” culture still reigns supreme. The AFL football culture is actually worse than rugby league. Like less than 5 years ago TV commentators were genuinely surprised that comparing an Aboriginal player to King Kong didn’t go down well. Because, you know, he was just JOKING #eyeroll. Likewise homophobia is always cushioned as a joke.

What's the difference between an Afrikaner and an English South African? Do they have separate cultures?

The USA should make one African country safe by Removing all blacks. Blacks around the world should be paid to be sterilized. Nobody is indigenous to land. Land ownership changes through war etc. countries like South Africa have large black populations because blacks fled there from other black countries and whites fed and provided medical care Wich caused mortality rate to fall drastically.

Looks lovely. R366, I don't think anyone is colonizing lands that way anymore.

What r1 said. The white population never surpassed the natives. Africans are too strong for that.

It's like a parallel universe: their cities' big stadiums are for cricket. So interesting.

OP:

[Quote] Why didn't become like Canada or Australia - bigger, developed, solidly English-speaking?

Like America?

R54, that actor is beautiful.

r371 His name is Charlie Keegan. He does an "It Gets Better" commercial.

But apparently, he's straight.

Good historical fiction summary.

Thanks R374. I'm totally reading that!

R369, cricket is huge in South Africa and Australia. It's a thing.

These two are UK players but I think one is from S. Africa.

Sorry, this it the correct guy.

What's the Harvard/Yale of South Africa?

Imagine thinking that Black South Africans are immigrants.

Why not Canada? 😂killin' me tonight DL!

R379, I don't get it.

#sciencemustfall

Thoughtful commentary by a black African critic. Not as racist as the title suggests.

That was the goal for some.

What could have been