Call Me by Your Name VS Moonlight

Moonlight was a gay film? Seems like they did their best to hide that fact.

Honestly I haven't watched Moonlight. It seems it would be a downer.

It was a downer.

Whose face would you rather look at? This rat face?

R4 Yes

No, this one:

They aren't whine queens in M, so it wins.

Only racist queens and pedos would choose CMBYN.

r6 his monotone voice ruined CMBYN, everyone else put in wonderful performances. Moonlight was much more daring and true to life, capturing a young man accepting his sexuality with the pressure of a hyper masculine environment.

CMBYN is great for a fantasy romance based around a bunch of rich people fucking fruit, I'm joking. It has all of the internal emotions we might feel from a lost love, with the whimsical nature of a summer vacation.

They are both wonderful films; ML captures external struggles, CMBYN the internal. I think Moonlight was better.

^ almost ruined...

The one Timothée Chalamet is in.

[quote]Moonlight was much more daring and true to life, capturing a young man accepting his sexuality

No, Moonlight was the story of a young man who could not accept his sexuality. It was a dreadful bore, except perhaps to those with a "grill" fetish.

CMBYN hands down.

No "gay" film post 2010 should be sexless.

Moonlight but both are the best films of their respective years and entirely different from one another and frankly I don't see the need to compare.

Moonlight sucked moose cock.

Two sexless gay films for straights. Gee, hard to choose!

R16 Go watch porn dullard.

I love them both. They're so different that I don't feel the need to rank one over the other.

Moonlight explored a more social issue with a a universal struggle. while CMBYN was a sweet summer romance only lifted up due to Timothee Chalamet's performance in the last 10 mins. Moonlight is for the ages where as CMBYN get lost in the shuffle of gay romances down the road altho Chalamet has become a legit star. I agree with R6 Armie's dialog sounds like a monotone drone, albeit with a deep masculine voice, but still too monotone.

Both BB Mountain and Milk were more progressive and more sexually explicit.

R17 Most porn has better storylines than those movies, so why not.

My good friend Cher was wonderful in Moonlight.

I didn't even mind losing to her that year.

Moonlight is a true masterpiece. I'm not exaggerating when I say it is the best film I've seen in the last decade. I watched it in a small theatre with an artsy crowd and you could tell most of them weren't expecting much as they walked in but they piped down as it went on. You could hear a pin drop, until the end when they erupted in spontaneous applause. I was especially touched when I saw this professorial looking straight white guy lift his glasses to dub his eyes as the credits rolled while his wife kept saying: "oh my god, oh my god".

There's a reason such a small, low budget movie beat such serious completion (Manchester by the Sea) and upset the overwhelming favorite (La La Land) to the Oscar. CMBYN is nowhere near that level and rightly lost. I don't thin it was even in the running - If Shape of Water had not won, there were at least three other movies that would have beaten it. Brokeback Mountain was robbed in its year but would not have been the front runner to win in other years.

Moonlight is truly a film for the ages.

So... is 'Love, Simon' going to be the only gay movie of 2018 or what?

[quote]Moonlight is truly a film for the ages.

Just not any of the ages I have been.

I'll be honest, I tried to watch Moolight on Netflix and I couldn't get through it. CMBYN was my favorite LGBT movie in a while.

R24 Love, Simon is the only major release this year (in fact it's the only major release LGBT film since Brokeback Mountain). There are a couple of other limited release films coming out this year (most are award contender movies): Boy Erased, The Happy Prince, The Death and Life of John F Donovan, The Wound.

r26 Thanks, I had completely forgotten about Boy Erased. I'll be sure to keep an eye out for the other movies you listed as well.

Is 'Love Simon' like a gay 'Clueless'? I guess it won't be in the running for the Oscars next year.

R28 I think it's too mainstream to be considered for the Oscars...although I wouldn't be surprised at all if Jennifer Garner gets a nomination for best supporting actress.

[quote]So... is 'Love, Simon' going to be the only gay movie of 2018 or what?

The gay movie of 2018 is "Boy Erased"

My top 5 best gay-themed gay movies ever made:

1. Moonlight

2. Undertow

3. Hawaii

4. Brokeback Mountain

5. Call Me By Your Name

Not even close. Moonlight.

Moonlight, hands down. There is nothing else like it.

Moonlight was a beautiful film about a world most people never see. The other one was a travel ad.

r30 I was asking whether it's going to be the only one, not if it's going to be the definitive one for this year.

r34 It only looks like a travel ad to those people who have never seen many old places. I grew up in medieval places like that in the countryside so I didn't even register them until people started bitching that the movie looks like a travelogue. And I do wonder if you would say the same about any American movie or TV show that takes place in and showcases NYC? Probably not, because you don't even notice that anymore.

Moonlight.

R23 Total agreement here. Moonlight was a masterpiece on so many levels, even beyond it's gay text. For me, a movie to qualify as a stunning achievement is one you can watch repeatedly, never get bored, and always discover a new layer you hadn't previously noted. I've seen Moonlight at least 5 times now and it's gotten better every time. (However, there is one glaring error that sticks out and bugs me to this day - but that's for another thread).

For me, CMBYN was well made and thoughtful, but I just couldn't get into it. I know there are people on this board who were enraptured by it, (OP, most likely), but it just didn't reach me.

When the subject of a movie or any art form comes up, I'll gladly join in on a conversation of praise. But if the person is speaking highly of a movie or show that I disdained, I don't want to ruin his experience so normally I say very little.

R31 For me, Moonlight is also number 1. It eclipsed another movie which is now my #2, (although it's still very close). Mysterious Skin. Perhaps you saw it and didn't think it was worthy. But if you haven't seen it, it's a must!

I liked "Call Me By Your Name", but "Moonlight" was definitely the superior piece of film-making.

Where did all you Moonlighters come from? I don't think we had this many "bests" when the movie was playing.

Because Moonlight is one of those movies that stays with you and gets better over time. I liked CMBYN, but have barely thought of it since seeing it.

I did not see Moonlight until after it won best picture. My feeling was..."that...that was best anything?" And it was barely even gay. I don't think I will watch it again.

[quote]Because Moonlight is one of those movies that stays with you and gets better over time. I liked CMBYN, but have barely thought of it since seeing it.

Funny, the absolute reverse for me. I saw Moonlight before the Oscars, and was rooting for it to win. It’s a such well made film with beautiful visuals and music, and Jenkins’ style is terrific. But not a single moment stayed with me, just an overall good impression. Call Me... is haunting. Even upon rewatch, there’s so much to unpack and think over. I think much of that is due to Chalamet which is a point to CMBYN’s credit- Moonlight has no great central performance at the heart of it.

It seems unfair to pit the two against each other. They’re just such different movies telling such different stories, I’d never think to compare them any more than I’d compare Moonlight to Lady Bird, or Boyhood to CMBYN just because they’re all coming-of-age stories.

R42 I agree

R40 Apparently, “Moonlighters” are not the fan girl type, unlike...

[quote]Two biggest gay-themed movies

Where are the gay movies? Is there even a gay character in CMBYM...?

While I liked Moonlight, I didn’t think it was the best of the year. I was team La La Land. But, imo, it is far superior than Call Me by Your Name.

After a year-long promotional campaign and wide critical acclaim, why was CMBYN such a flop? And I mean, everywhere. It flopped EVERYWHERE! Made $17M stateside and about the same again internationally when these guys were EVERYWHERE! I remarked months ago, it was in London cinemas for about 3 weeks and then it was GONE. What’s the explanation for the commercial failure of this film? The terrible poster?

And don’t try to spin this, the numbers do not lie. It struggled to stay in cinemas throughout awards season and when it went wide on 914 screens the week before the Oscars, it bombed. I Can Only Imagine was on 800 screens last weekend and made $17.1M - the whole of CMBYN’s U.S. gross. Do gay people not support gay cinema?

Moonlight

R47 To each his own, but being a Chicagoan a movie about a white, jazz pianist in Los Angeles misses on every level.

[quote]Apparently, “Moonlighters” are not the fan girl type, unlike...

Ye may jest, but this is a very important difference. CMBYN targeted the same audience that will watch 'Love Simon'. Moonlight, on the other hand, is not for the popcorn crowd.

CMBYN was not a commercial flop. It cost 5 million to make maybe 5 million to promote and still made 35 million worldwide. That is not failure.it iscertainlybelowmy expectations and yes gays mostly passed, but so what? We have it. It's an instant classic. Academy award winner, made a star of Chalamet, waayyy more positive came from this. This isnt spin, its just facts.

I’ll accept that, R52. But why wasn’t it bigger?

Because not enough people went to the theatre to see it.

Here's some other things to consider:

Sony Pictures Classics waited wayyyyy too long to release it. Should have premiered the week after Toronto Film Festival.it had a lot of buzz and they should have expanded to 900 theatres in week 2 not week 10, but they don't have those kinds of resources. Living in the Twitter bubble expectations explode but ask the average person last summer they had never heard of it. SPC also doesnt have the $$$ for marketing, TV ads etc. All that and itleaked over the holidays. I was able to watch it repeatedly on my laptop a full two months before it showed in my hometown theater. And you can't discount the phobias. I know a lot of women who wanted to go whose husbands passed. So many reasons. I thought it was going to gross 50 million at one time, but it was nothandled perfectly.

[quote]I think much of that is due to Chalamet which is a point to CMBYN’s credit- Moonlight has no great central performance at the heart of it.

That's because Moonlight had several great performances. Other than the Oscar winning/nominated Mahershala Ali and Naomi Harris, I think the character of Little Chiron, who doesn't speak much, was outstanding. But personally, for me, the most underrated performance has to be André Holland as grown Kevin. The diner scene blew me away.

Call Me By Your Name had niche appeal, I can't see that movie ever being some break out hit.

[quote]It seems unfair to pit the two against each other. They’re just such different movies telling such different stories

Absolutely, the films are like night and day. I liked them both but wasn't particularly moved by either. Neither are in my top 10 of best gay films. That said

[quote]Moonlight was a masterpiece on so many levels

Hmm. It's a well made film but the structure felt too forced to make the film a truly living thing, like films like Brokeback Mountain and Maurice are. Or Shelter, which really is a cheapo indie but the story and the actors are just so likable. Next to those Moonlight is clinical and lacks heart and soul. I personally wouldn't call it masterpiece in any way. CMBYN is certainly not perfect either but it's extremely well made, and Chalamet did a fantastic job. Overall CMBYN is way smoother artistically than Moonlight. Not a masterpiece either.

If I was younger and hadn't seen tons of gay films over the years I'd probably be way more moved by both.

... no idea what I was about to say after 'That said' ^ ^ ^

Mooonlight is good but CMBYN is GREAT. It's the only movie considered on the same artistic and culturally impactful level as Brokeback Mountain.

[quote]CMBYN was not a commercial flop. It cost 5 million to make maybe 5 million to promote and still made 35 million worldwide.

Moonlight cost a quarter of that to make. In terms of box office, I think Moonlight was helped not just by the Best Picture win, but also by the blunder that had people talking about it for weeks after the ceremony.

I want to be clear that Moonlight is, for me, not just the best gay film ever made, but one of the best films ever, period. Barry Jenkins has a very innovative style that I noticed in his first film Medicine for Melancholy, which was quite good as well.

Why are we fighting about this? They are both excellent award winning films! Does the straight community need to choose between ladybird and Juno? There’s room for them both...and hopefully many more in the near future

I love them both for different reasons. I do agree, however, that Undertow is one of the best hay films ever made.

Damn, r38. I forgot about 'Mysterious Skin', probably because I see it more about abuse than just gay-themed. I'd probably have it as my #2 or #3 as well, pushing CMBYN out of my top 5.

R64 Funny. I just came on to DL, checked this thread, and there's your response. Understandable that you'd think "... Skin" is more about Abuse, but the same argument could also be made for Moonlight. But Skin had an openly gay director, adapting a book by an openly gay writer. And of the two major characters, one was openly gay while the other stayed ambiguous. I think that was also kind of the point. The JG Levitt character was always at home with his sexuality, which might be why he wasn't as traumatized by the molestation as the Brady Corbett character. Or at least not in the same way. It's strongly suggested his molestation manifested in his becoming a hustler. He was taught how to use his body sexually for monetary gain.

"Moonlight" is also a semi-autobiographical story by gay playwright Tarell Alvin McCraney with only the third act fictionalized by Barry Jenkins as McCraney won scholarships that eventually took him to a playwriting program at Yale.

Moonlight. A different league of film. Not even close.

R53 the common consensus seems to be that Sony Classic fucked up the distribution of CMBYN. When the film was first released in November in just a handful of theaters, it's per theater revenue was higher than Brokeback Mountain's per theater take (taking into account inflation). It also had a higher per theater take than all the other limited release films of 2017 including Lady Bird. Many box office analyzers saw this as a sign that the film had major money making potential and that the film had serious buzz. Sony Classics should have wide released the film by mid-December but instead they waited 11 weeks to release the film in most markets, and by then the buzz had faded and got lost in the mix of awards season.

Now, I'm not saying that CMBYN would have been a run away hit, but deadline has predicted a better release schedule by Sony would have gotten the film past the $30 million mark domestically and surpassed Moonlight's box office.

r48 After CMBYN was released, I complained at how long it was taking them to expand to new theaters. CMBYN had the best opening for any movie in 2017, if opening is defined as gross per theater. So the momentum was there when it opened. But the distributors just failed to seize on it. Both Lady Bird and CMBYN opened at 4 theaters. However, Lady Bird expanded to 37 in the second week. In the second week, CMBYN was stuck in its 4 theaters, and only took to the double digits in its fourth week.

When I complained about that, DL's super-sleuths told me distributors were following a plan, which must be the wisest possible. It still doesn't seem that way to me.

In any case, as someone remarked above, CMBYN made a decent profit - it cost 3.5 million and it has already made more than 10 times that amount in the box office.

Could CMBYN hit 40 mil worldwide? It still has South Korea, France and Japan. R69

r70 It has been open in France since Feb 28th.

[quote]CMBYN had the best opening for any movie in 2017, if opening is defined as gross per theater. So the momentum was there when it opened.

Have you taken into account that word-of-mouth could've killed its box office? That happens too, you know.

R71 Oops, sorry then only the 2 other countries. I mean, the Asian girls are crazy in love with Timothée.

r72 CMBYN has 86% audience approval rating on RT.

CMBYN is more of a fantasy than Moonlight was.There was too much straight sex in it as well. The twink/old man dynamic in Call Me was also very shitty. I'm surprised the Metoo Queens didn't boycott that film.

R72 CMBYN had very good word of mouth particularly after the Toronto Film Festival. There was definitely a lot of positive buzz around the film. There is no question that if CMBYN had a better distributor like A24 which handled Moonlight and Lady Bird, it would have done better domestic box office.

That being said, Sony has ordered a sequel so they were obviously happy with it.

[quote]There was too much straight sex in it as well.

Because it isn't really a gay story. It is a story about a "don't believe in labels" teen written by a "don't believe in labels" author.

CMBYN is a slow paced European gay film with a slightly unsettling pairing of a teen boy and an adult. It's closer to arthouse than Hollywood. No wonder it didn't get anywhere near the numbers of Brokeback Mountain. Especially in the current #MeToo climate.

[quote]Why are we fighting about this? They are both excellent award winning films! Does the straight community need to choose between ladybird and Juno? There’s room for them both...and hopefully many more in the near future

Pitting gay movies against each other is dumb as hell. We don't get that many of them in the first place, especially on the level of CMBYN and Moonlight, so trying to cause a fight makes it seem like trolling. Especially since we've had that lunatic Nazi super troll attacking CMBYN constantly.

Moonlight is just a superior film on every level. No contest.

[quote]“Moonlighters”

Can’t you see there’s no such thing? People who love ‘Moonlight’ are simply cinephiles. Not the kind of fanboys and fraus responsible for the flood of CMBYN threads we’ve had here lately.

[quote]Mooonlight is good but CMBYN is GREAT. It's the only movie considered on the same artistic and culturally impactful level as Brokeback Mountain.

What the hell are you talking about...?

"Moonlight" won the golden globe and the oscar for best picture and made nearly twice as much money at the box office as CMBYM. It was the far more impactful movie of the two. You are too involved in the CMBYM fan culture to look at this objectively.

Really, r79? Namecalling?

r81. Have been around DL for the last few months? They most definitely deserve it.

CMBYN is a lovely escape. Haven't seen Moonlight. Brokeback was hard to relate to.

Love simon

Moonlight is a deep piece of art. CMBYN is a beautifully made fluff. I agree that without Chalamet's outstanding acting this movie would be nowhere as good as it seems. The endless parade of antics by the two stars trying to desperate sell their relationship did get the teen girls excited but that's about it.

R84 is on to something. Love Simon is set to become this year’s CMBYN and replace it in the fangurls’ obsessions. Next year, there will be another. Moonlight, on the other hand is irreplaceable.

You weren't talking to "they," r82. You were talking to me. Your [italic]manner[/italic] of speech/typing completely invalidates [italic]what[/italic] you tried to say.

When I was 12 the girls in my neighborhood were either Team Duran Duran or Team Culture Club. Since I hung out with them I had to choose a side, and as a young gayling I obviously recognized Boy George as a kindred spirit so I chose Team Culture Club. It was all so silly but some girls took the whole thing very seriously. If you were in the wrong team you were scum. Even though I didn't even really hate Duran Duran I still ended up trying to avoid it actively, which actually was a shame since like a decade later I realized how great the band had been at the time.

Some people in this thread remind of those stupid 13 year old girls who were, for whatever reasons, trying to dictate what is good and what is not.

[quote]Moonlight is a deep piece of art. CMBYN is a beautifully made fluff.

This is just silly. You could easily say 'Call Me Your Name is a deep piece of art. Moonlight is beautifully made fluff', and it would be just as true. They are both nice enough films and have their place in The Gay Film Hall of Fame, and deservedly so.

[quote]You could easily say 'Call Me Your Name is a deep piece of art. Moonlight is beautifully made fluff'

Except there was nothing "beautifully made" about Moonlight.

R89, nonsense. Personally I slightly prefer CMBYN but Moonlight is a very well made film.

[quote] You could easily say 'Call Me Your Name is a deep piece of art. Moonlight is beautifully made fluff', and it would be just as true.

Rubbish. Moonlight is anything but fluff. Call Me By Your Name on the other hand ....

Look at how soft spoken the bully from Moonlight is in real life. I didn’t expect this.

R88 Your reaction is no different than those 13 yo you talk about. One can have an opinion about piece of art without turning it into a fandom war.

The person that started this thread is one of those CMBYN/Chalamet fanboys. No reputable critic thinks it is anywhere near the artistic achievement of Moonlight.

Except the 3rd act of Moonlight doesn’t hold up to the other two plus the cowardly ending without kissing. I bet time will be more kind to CMBYN.

I thought the third act, especially the scene with the mother and the diner scene, was outstanding. CMBYN will go the way of Latter Days and Trick.

r54 makes a good point. I worked TIFF and I was surprised that CMBYN only had very limited screenings at the beginning of the festival but it was one of the hot tickets and much in demand. They should have released in October at least and build their campaign and word of mouth.

It did feel like a long time after TIFF when it opened.

As opposed to Moonlight, which opened not too long after TIFF and was able to keep building on its momentum.

Oscar nominated film versus

hardly noticed indie....

Moonlight was the #OscarsSoWoke guilty white liberal’s purse puppy benefitting from #OscarsSoWhite

But at least it was no 'Crash', r99. 'Moonlight' was the best film that year. Certainly better than 'La La Land'. So, good for #OscarsSoWhite if they accomplished getting the academy to award the superior film.

Moonlight

[quote]Oscar nominated film versus hardly noticed indie....

Except they both won Oscars dear.

How are the extras on the Blu-Ray of CMBYN?

[quote]Except they both won Oscars dear.

CMBYM won an Oscar, singular. Moonlight won Oscars, three of them.

Neither...both were "safe" movies about being gay...sanitized and neutered for mainstream audiences.

That volleyball scene where Oliver uses that chick to turn-on Elio is just perverse... hot but perverse.

[quote]Certainly better than 'La La Land'.

Everything is better than La La Land.

Thing is, Moonlight, in the wrong hands, would have been a disaster. I shudder to think what self-hating snow queen, Lee Daniels would have done to the play.

[quote]I shudder to think what self-hating snow queen, Lee Daniels would have done to the play.

Act three.

Tyler Perry should have done it starring Madea (is that her name?)

Lee Daniel's Moonlight. Based on the play 'In Moonlight Black Boys Look Blue' by Terrell Alvin McCraney. The story of an overweight, awkward, introverted black boy's unrequited love for a white, alt-right, all-American quarterback and the tragedy it brings upon himself.

LOL.

never heard of moonlight

what is it

Well, this was bound to happen. *rolls eyes*

They're both great gay coming-of-age films, even if they tried their best to deny it.

There's no need to compare the two.

But, Moonlight is clearly better. :-P

Moonlight deserved that Oscar for Best Picture. One of the few years the academy has gotten it right.

Lee Daniels is an embarrassment to black gay men everywhere.

why so few tickets sold for moonlight? not popular with the public

R117 What are you talking about? Moonlight grossed twice as much worldwide as CMBYN.

Moonlight, on a budget of 1.5 million dollars, outgrossed CMBYN in every country in the world except Italy (for obvious reasons).

Moonlight still only made 27m domestic, the second lowest box office for a best picture winner. Which is a shame, as it’s a great film that more people should’ve seen, though I’ll bet both Moonlight and CMBYN will have strong and long-lasting streaming revenues simply because that’s how most people prefer to watch movies.

Unfortunately it’s also how most people chose to watch arthouse and indie films, especially LGBT-centric ones, which means box office for these kinds of films is going to be much smaller in comparison to their cultural impact.

Donnie Darko total gross is 1.4 million. Yet it is one of the most enduring cult movies of the last 20 years.

Moonlight all the way. That other movie can't even compete. Trite bullshit pretentious summer romance with bad actors. Moonlight only had one bad actor. The fake ghetto mom played by the uppity brit a la halle berry.

R23 says it all.

CMBYN was absolutely vacant. A dull travelogue. See Maurice if you want pretty scenery coupled with actors who are incredibly hot, and can actually act.

“Uppity”

Now *that* says it all.

I like seeing all the pretty things in CMBYN. I like feeling wrapped in wealth and comfort. It makes me a more giving person.

Sadly r125 isn’t even joking, I’m afraid.

CMBYN made me also feel good all over, the richness of life in all its stages, the bittersweet loves, the amber memories....

moonlight? left me empty and depressed....

Funny, r127. I felt an incredible warmth inside after the ending. Moonlight has stayed with me to this day. I forgot CMBYN as soon as the credits started rolling. We’ve seen several straight versions of it targeted at fraus.

was moonlight released in theatres or straight to dvd?

129 Moonlight, made for a quarter of the budget, outperformed CMBYN at the box office both domestically and internationally.

in the long run, CMBYN will be respect loved and be fodder for sequels. imagaine a sequel for that bummer moonlight attempt. NO, let it fade...into morning light of bright love and hope, not closet darkness.

Good god Moonlight was a bummer....

R131. Sequels are for masterpieces such as Fifty Shades of Gray, Weekend at Bernie’s, American Pie and Tyler Perry’s Why Did I Get Married. CMBYN is exactly that kind of movie. Enjoy Call Me By My Name This Time, when it comes out. I’ll pass.

Moonlight, on the other hand, has joined that very exclusive group of films that have won the Academey Award for Best Picture! You will hear about it every year for as long as you live.

CMBYN has to be one of THE most overrated films in decades:

Zero chemistry between the two leads. Pretty pictures, no cohesive plot/rambling script. Loaded with scenes and shots that do nothing to move the story forward, resulting in a 90 minute film crammed into 2 hours and 12 minutes. The music...PAINFUL, especially the last song. And while the younger actor was very good, his overpraised scene at the end was hilarious. Not because of his acting, but because of the credits running NEXT TO HIM, and the phony, phony 'fireplace' lighting bouncing off his face.

R134 no chemistry between the two leads? Seriously 😒? 1/10

CMBYN = forgettable

Haven't seen either. "Moonlight " is infinitely better.

R136, you bumped a year-old thread for THAT?

I thought Moonlight was well made, but if you’ve seen a Wong Kar Wai film, you’ve seen Moonlight. The visuals and cinematography owe so much to WKW that it’s distracting. It’s a good film but a minor key one that benefits greatly from winning best picture. Without that win (and the incredible circumstances behind it) it would not so remembered.

[quote]you bumped a year-old thread for THAT?

Finally got round to watching it.

R139, Moonlight’s Best Picture win (and the Oscar flub) helped more people see what was infinitely a superior example of low budget/independent film as art. It would’ve been a shame if such an excellent film had gone unwatched like others of its kind.

I liked Tim Tales mega dick bareback vids, that year.