Older Women Who Dye Their Hair

OP = CEO of the Old Lady Blue Hair Dye Corporation

OP is right. Black hair never looks right on an older (= visibly over 45) woman -- it is too harsh, and most hairdressers will advise their older customers to pick a lighter color.

For the women who do keep dyeing it black, I guess it's because they were black-haired for all their lives before going gray, and they just can't envision themselves with any other hair color. It's probable that they feel like dyeing it black is like not dyeing it at all; they perceive it as just going back to or maintaining their original hair color. The irony is that, even if it was their natural color, after a certain age it can't help looking fake.

I've often thought about what's best for a naturally dark-haired, often darker-skinned woman to do when her hair fades to gray. Leave it? Go lighter brown, or even blonde? Or go for a really offbeat color, like red? I suppose a medium brown dye job with lighter highlights is the most natural-looking option.

[quote] I suppose a medium brown dye job with lighter highlights is the most natural-looking option.

Absolutely not. Nothing brodcasts "insecure old frau trying to cover up gray" more than a dye job with light highlights. Actual gray hair looks less aging.

Hi- lights.

It's not just women. I have a friend who dyes his hair a different color every two weeks. It always shrieks 'DYED AS FUCK!' Always. He looks laughable at best, nearly always horrible.

R4's photo is a slightly more upscale version of the classic 'cubicle frau 10 years away from retirement' look.

Gray hair is sometimes hard to cover up. I always had to go a shade darker (a very dark brown) than my original color to make sure it lasted at least five or six weeks.

Oh, and he's going to be 60 this year. Basic gay elderbitch.

These women still wear the same makeup they wore when they were 20 as well. They don't seem to get that what looked good then doesn't look good on old, wrinkly skin.

Dyed red hair is the worst, especially because it’s usually adopted by women who didn’t have red hair in the first place. It just looks terrible.

The one exception is Julianne Moore, seriously.

Sounds like somebody’s jealous of the ravens, OP.

Maybe they just like the color, why would you think they think they are fooling anyone?

I see lots of people with green hair, or purple hair or whatever, it's obviously fake but if they like it, that is their business.

We'll make a compromise.

Elizabeth Taylor still dyed her hair black most of the time when she was older, but then she was La Liz.

"Good" professional hair color in a major metropolitan area can easily run 200+ per treatment - and that's just basic roots/touch up, highlights/multiprocessing can easily double that price. If you have predominantly grey hair - you need to get it done close to monthly. The stuff from the grocery store: 10 - 15/per treatment - and people tend toward darker shades thinking it will be a more even color throughout

This is a lot off topic, but I'm a 65 year old eldergay and I can't get a job. My hair is white. Would it help if I had it dyed? It would have to be done professionally, of course.

Really dark hair looks bad on men, too.

It makes you look very old.

I have a friend who dyes his hair and want to tell him: "That color is much too dark for you."

That's why I am envious of natural blondes or light brown haired people- they can stay blonde for the rest of their lives and it'll look more natural. I'm starting to go gray, and It looks like it wants to be a streak at my temples and in front of my ears, but it looks like I'm balding instead. You need a lot of hair to carry off all white/gray/silver-my grandmother had a terrific head of hair and when it went white, it was gorgeous. So when my mom started going white, I told her to grow it all out, and when she did, she looked like a cancer crone, because she has sparse hair.- I told her to dye it back to dark brown (it was naturally black). She looks much younger now.

Oh, R14, you poor thing, that is not Liz's own hair

But R19, it looks so youthful and natural, doesn't it? I SAID, "DOESN'T IT?!?!?"

As long as they have ankle bracelet and hot pants it's all good.

Paul Manafort's hair is a prime example of a bad dye job on a guy.

Instead of blue tints a lot of people who have dyed their hair for decades have this strange looking orangish color, did they change the recipe?

A guy at work does the home dye thing, it looks awful. He would be quite cute if he left the grey but he dyes it blackest black. When the sun hits it you can see the underlying tint so he has a lavender bluish halo. He hasn’t spoken to me since I asked him if he was going prematurely purple.

Dye your hair whatever color you want, and don't worry about what the sniveling snobs of Datalounge think or say about it.

I'm about 75% gray, full head of hair. I finally accepted it and stopped coloring it about a year ago.

You are right, R18.

I am currently watching Nicola Walker in Collateral on BBC, and although thin, her hair has a completely natural tone.

Black is not good on an old head but I did have an aunts who's hair turned black as she got older. She was Irish, not Gypsy but she looked like a little old Gypsy. I thought that was weird.

And then there's Ian McShane and his fuck ya'll, I'm dyeing it blacker than black and don't give a shit how fake it looks.

What are gay men so obsessed with how women look? what do you care? how about talking about how ridiculous older MEN look when they wear gym clothes or dye their hair black a la Travolta or do comb overs? Hair coloring from a good salon looks natural no matter how gray you are.

A lot of people wind up with orange hair because the bleach in the developer lifts the color out of their darker hair.

I have a friend who is very cute, but he has his hair colored and it is very orange. It looks awful.

Dear R30, please see posts

R5

R8

R17

R22

R24

R29

and R32

to address your concerns, and remember to always read before posting. Cunt.

R32 = Hope Hicks

My 80-yr. old mother had black hair. But now she has it a medium-dark brown with a white tuft in front.

R18, I’m a natural blonde 47-year old. My hair was nearly platinum until I started having kids. Then it got darker, but is still natural medium blonde. Now I have white steaks at my temples and I don’t know what to do with it. A few years back, I did very light highlights including the white streaks. It didn’t make that much difference.

Anyway, I’m just accepting it now. I made a comment like “oh I’m just giving in. Hair dye doesn’t fool anyone, anyway” to a friend who dyes her hair and she was SOOO offended.

Hair dye always beats Grey. Hair dye is the fountain of youth. Toupee always beats bald. People who don't dye their hair are lazy.

What has surprised me is both men and women with gray to white hair that looks great. Their hair doesn't age them. For example people have hair like Emmy Lou Harris or Richard Gere. The men and women i know with hair like Harris and Gere are dying their hair.

I wonder how many people you might think are letting their hair gray naturally aren't.

Looks just as bad on men. Not even older men. Once you’re past your punk phase ( or whatever ) when you’re young, it automatically reeks of desperation. Facial hair even more so. Doesn’t even have to be black. Bleached blonde rather than grey on men is equally sad. It even Billy Idol can get away with it.

Actually...Nick Cave can get away with it.

I think men with dyed hair look a million times worse than women do with dyed hair. It also seems like many men can pull off the grey hair look, whereas very few women can.

[quote]Really dark hair looks bad on men, too.

I have mid-brown hair - when I was about 17 I dyed it black for fun.

In old photos I look like a Spanish waiter.

I'm not going to turn down a hot man just because he dyes his hair, for God's sake.

I am lazy and broke, I will not be dying my hair. It is slowly turning gray. Some days I don't see any gray at all.

Yes I agree, OP. And what is surprising is that women who spend plenty of money on clothes, makeup and jewellery settle for diy hair dyeing. It's not so much the colour as the fact that they constantly overdye (dyeing their whole head, not just the roots) and their hair becomes fried and lustreless. I have a friend who goes to a beauty supply store and buys the professional product in a shade or two lighter than black - think the colour of Coca-Cola. She sections it and only does the roots. It looks healthy and shiny and natural.

Most of them are fully aware it doesn't look natural, but then fashionable women aren't supposed to look natural.

Women are supposed to look artificial, even young women wear makeup, color their hair, or get plastic surgery. For older women it's all but obligatory, an older woman who doesn't dye her hair, make up her face, or get her wrinkles flattened out is considered to be dowdy, low in status, or unprofessional.

As you age, the number of melanocytes in your skin decreases; these are the cells that provide pigment. Fewer melanocytes makes skin look thinner, paler, and translucent. Black hair - whether dyed, or natural (say, from a wig) can be very unflattering in these years because the base colour of black is often very blue, and blue will appear harsh and emphasize the lack of pigment in the skin. This is why some people compensate with a suntan; the intensified pigmentation, as well as the yellow and red tones of tanned skin contrast with the blue tones of the black hair, and provide what artists call 'balance'.

Selecting a shade with no blue - golden or reddish brown - can be far more flattering, and takes years off your appearance.

[quote] It’s all but obligatory, an older woman who doesn't dye her hair, make up her face, or get her wrinkles flattened out is considered to be dowdy, low in status, or unprofessional.

I used to wonder if this is the reason my mother never made great strides in a career, and settled with my father who stems from very humble roots (and was the first & only man she ever dated). These days I believe it was simply her choice not to play the ‘game’ with other women.

My Boomer mother went to private schools all her life and had jetsetting socialite parents & other Waugh-esque ‘beautiful people’ surrounding her as a child. Imagine her another ‘Claire’ from THE BREAKFAST CLUB. I know she could easily have secured a more comfortable existence than she has currently via networking better and marriage to someone from her schooldays or her parents’ New Money bracket.

Instead she dropped out of a guaranteed University scholarship and a potentially highpaying career track to go to Community College, where she always dressed down and hung around with smalltown lower-class types. This got her a cottage in a little nowhere town and a blue-collar husband. She’s happy with her lot.

Even today she mocks women who do obviously-cosmetic work on themselves, calling it “trashy” & “delusional” (she even hates tooth-whitening). She also good-naturedly likes to point out that her sag/fat “fills out the wrinkles” and that taste is “all in a good handbag & real gold/diamond earrrings” rather than a pancake face. She’s right, and still rocks a thick & healthy head of cinnamon hair with nary a gray at 55. I don’t know how her peers view her but she certainly thinks herself higher in status and more professional than almost everyone. I assume it’s that UMC assurance talking, or just ‘Big Fish, Small Pond’ syndrome.

I too have been known to eschew makeup, dye & “flattering” (read: constricting, uncomfortable, punishing) garments, and it makes more sense for me as I am a vocal & staunch oldschool-style feminist, and frankly too broke at the present time to afford any procedures even if I wanted.

I have to admit I sometimes mull over the privileges my mother had with jealousy, thinking I could have been smarter than she was and done much more or gone further had I enjoyed her educational & career opportunities. Maybe I would have caved to pressure and dressed for the part against my ideals. But it’s all too easy to say.

42 year old lezzie here

I started getting my first grays in high school. My parents both went gray early, so it's hereditary. I was born with a full head of black beautiful hair. I also have a light complexion - im Irish

Now my hair is about 80%. Gray/white. Problem is, it looks white. It comes in at the crown and temples and the top of my head. It grows so fast that I have to do my roots every 2 weeks

I can't afford to spend 250 per visit. That includes tip of course. I'd be spending 500 a month to have my hair dye done professionally.

I use store bought dye. I don't dye my hair black, but instead light ash brown. It still looks medium to dark brown, even though I pick a lighter color. Occasionally I get highlights to cover the "box dye" but they grow out quickly too.

Everyone saying "let it grow out gray" - no way! I'm only 42! It would age me 20 years! Despite my gray hair I have a young face - it's just way to early to have the gray grow in.

I miss my black hair of course, but I could never dye it black because it comes out looking harsh with bluish purple undertones

R48 your mom sounds like a class act

I was just thinking that R48 's mom had real self esteem issues.

Dyed black hair rarely looks good on younger people as well.

R17 the Wayne Newton syndrome

R49 when you said grey hair in high school, I thought you must be Irish, before you mentioned it. The root touch up kits for about 8 bucks are decent. I do my roots, as was suggested upthread, but dying my hair has made it thinner.

Men should use the "Touch of Gray" stuff that maybe takes a few years off and tones down the gray but still looks natural.

They rarely do. Older white women usually get a bob, dyed ash blonde, and for a long time I wondered why this is their “uniform.” Over time, I’ve noticed that light-toned hair tends to have a blurring/blending effect as a frame to a pale face, and it makes darker features (eyes, eyebrows, lips) stand out and visually pushes everything light, including the skin and its wrinkles and lines, to the background so you don’t notice as much. Also, most women also experience hair thinning, and shorter hair weighs less and therefore isn’t as matted to the scalp and therefore shows less scalp, and lighter hair blends better with the scalp, and so dark hair will make a person’s thinning or balding hair more obvious, as will a longer hairdo. So older women have a couple of options if they don’t want to look like they are losing hair and vitality: an old-lady fuffy perm or a short bob or bob-type haircut dyed blond or left white or light gray.

R54 yep, the perks of being Irish :) we get gray hair early. In high school and college it was just a random strand here and there. In fact my roommate in college use to come up to me as I was on my computer and "surprise me" but pulling out out my grays. It was like a fun game for her.

Once I hit my 30's I was probably 30% gray. But 40 I was 75%. What sucks is - it comes out right in front at the crown and temples. . I have my original color in the back of my head underneath. That actually doesn't lighten very much with my hair dye. So it I wear my hair up the underside in back by my neck is still my original black color. That's one of the reasons I sometimes get highlights - to blend that in a bit more.

Box dye isn't horrible. I miss the days of being able to use "semi permanent" - it gradually washed out in a few weeks. It wasn't as harsh in my hair.

And I agree- the gray hair that comes in at the crown gives the appearance of thinning hair - because it's white and almost translucent. But once it's dyed I have my full head of hair back. It's just an illusion the gray hair creates.

My brother who is 43 still has a full head of dark brown hair - he doesn't even have a receding hairline like most men his age. He got lucky.

Team R48's Mom!

R55 I agree it looks less fake than permanent dye, it over time it creates a reddish hue on the hair, especially once it’s faded out, which is a telltale sign of coloring. I know because I used it for several years until I finally accepted my gray and haven’t looked back since.

R54 - go out and buy "Jason's thin to thick" shampoo and conditioner. It's amazing. I was on retin-a a few years ago for wrinkle prevention. For some reason my hair started to thin at the crown when I was on this. I use the shampoo and conditioner and the results were amazing. I have thicker hair now than I had as a kid with this stuff.

I always had thick hair but this shampoo and conditioner actually made it even thicker

R59 yes it does - which is now why I use ash color. The ash cancels out the red undertones

But I have to use permanent dye now because I have too much gray

I haven't listened in a few years. Is he still insisting that his hair color is natural?

Wonder what he would look like without the wig?

Oh and here is a tip for those with longer hair

Once a year I buy "color oops" it removes all the dye and heavy metals from your hair - so it doesn't build up and look fake. It's not a bleach. It takes out the dye by some process. It smells horrible but removes all the dye

Then I redo my whole head and my hair looks amazing. It's like dying hair that's never been colored before - so it doesn't look like hair that's been processed over and over.

I only do it once a year - I have longer hair so dye can build up even though I just do my roots

Do Irish people get grey hair young? Why?

R65 I always thought Irish were susceptible to storing extra copper in their bodies - (which is why they are the ones that usually get Wilson's disease) maybe that's why?

Seriously though - I've no idea why

They say the Irish have hard lives. 1800 years of oppression or something.

Interesting comments about Irish people. I worked with an Irish guy who went totally gray suddenly at 25. My dad only started graying well into his 60s. Our surname, inherited from him, is presumably Irish...but an Ancestry DNA test showed he is only 5% Irish, and he confirmed through genealogical research that our name is actually British and not an Americanized spelling of an Irish name as we had always thought.

Totally agree R37.

As far as black hair color.. It's very hard to lighten naturally dark hair.

A lot of upper class older men go for that "hamster" shade. With porcelain veneers, Viagra* and shaved pubes, they are fuckable- if you just imagine dollar signs.

women ALL dye their hair, every last one of them. why, I don't know, most don't look that good.

You dont know why r71? Have you been living under a rock since birth?

As a woman who started going gray early (as I posted upthread) - no woman wants to be walking around with gray roots, crown and temples. It makes us look old! I'm not 60. Why would I want to look 60?

Society has conditioned us women to always try our best to look young and attractive. Why do you think woman spend fortunes on wrinkle creams the moment the hit 25 years old? To be proactive against aging. Men don't do that (well straight men, anyway...)

Gray hair = old and ragged. Women don't want to look like that and society doesn't want us to accept that our hair goes gray just like men's hair.

Gray hair on a man = distinguished

R64 that sounds incredibly damaging

Like everyone's orthodontist, r63:

Not at all r73. It's not bleach. It removes permanent color by shrinking the molecules and you wash it out.

[quote]As a woman who started going gray early (as I posted upthread) - no woman wants to be walking around with gray roots, crown and temples. It makes us look old!

in your sophist but deluded mind, but in reality your terrible dye job that you spent 300 dollars on looks worse, you look old and desperate.

shave it off if it bothers you, bitch

There’s a double standard for men if you go gray it is distinguished if a woman goes gray she looks old.

R76 you're a psycho

I'm glad I don't know R76 in real life.

Stay in that basement, hon. It's for the best for everyone.

I started going gray in my late teens. Yes, I'm a Irish woman. I'm going on 62 years old. I've talked to my hairdresser and I just can't make the move to dye my hair. It is a mix of gray and silver.

Hair dye looks a bit fake for a few days but the sun bleaches it to normal. I had dark brown hair but now bleach it to get rid of grey and than colour with light brown. I hate dark brown hair. Men are sloppy when dying hair and touch up looks bad as you have patchwork of different colours. Dye your grey hair folks. Grey equals old and worthless. Doctors Will not worry much about your health. Younger is better.

You do realize R81 that the Dr. knows your age?

R81 you can’t “bleach” gray hair, it’s gray because there’s no pigment in it. You can add blonde color to it, but that’s pointless if you’re just goIng to cover it with brown anyway.

Hey, R81! I don't pay for you post inside thread of hair!

You report now to sanctioned thread and tell of sweet Jared so sad for be witch hunted; have much tear. You tell of Hillary #1 witch behind hunt. You tell of Hopehick leaving job for spend time to dear old deda and babulya before it both die.

You do job! Go now!!

Dyed black hair doesn't look any better on older men, either.

It's looks even more when the leave a touch of gray on the sideburn to give it a "natural look."

They're not fooling anyone.

I was at a dinner recently where there were six ladies aged 50-70 among the guests. Three let their hair gray naturally, because they aren't given to fussing about their looks, and they all looked fine. The three other ladies had all dyed their hair - one kept the original color and lightened it slightly, one had gone red when she started to gray, and the third had eccentric unnatural colors. They also looked fine, the lady with the eccentric color works in the arts and can get away with her look, and the lady when went red had adjusted her makeup and wardrobe to make the change look natural.

So apparently dying hair isn't absolutely obligatory for women, at least for women outside the sales field. But hair color NEVER works for men, at least straight men. Women are expected to try to look younger, but obviously trying to look younger makes a man look vain and desperate.

Grey does age you or people's perception of you. I look very young for my age (really!), always did, and yes doctors question my form with my age all the time. One day I had my roots showing and I was getting my blood drawn. The lady and I were talking and she said she thought I was really young until she saw the grey hair. Ouch. Learned my lesson never to neglect it. A poster mentioned 45 and plus, sorry but 45 is way too young to let oneself go grey. I'm under 45 and started dying my hair at 24. I would never consider letting myself go grey until I was in my 60s and probably not even then. My mother is that age and still religiously colors her hair.

And yet nobody gives a shit what you think, R85.

And furthermore, colored hair does look flattering when done correctly with the right product. The color used needs to coordinate with the person's natural coloration (skin tone, eye color), meaning it needs to have the right underlying tones. Also it needs to be an appropriate level (meaning not too dark or too light). Also when using a "permanent" color product, be aware that they lift your natural color a few shades and then deposit color. So if you have a mix of dark hair and grey, the dark hair will most likely lift to a lighter brown with orange-red undertones, so you need to use something with ash tones to counteract that unless you want a lot of "warmth" in your color. That underlying warmth is what sometimes looks unnatural. On the other hand if your hair is predominantly grey and you use an ash based color, you may end up with odd blue-purple undertones because there is no orange-red revealed (i.e. you're not "lifting" color from dark hair). If you don't understand color theory or understand what happens when you lighten natural hair or deposit color on top of color or how different products work (permanent color, demi-permanent color, semi-permanent color, etc.) then you may be headed for disaster if you try to DIY. Then you will be convinced that colored hair looks horrible.

Is it so tragic

That we long for magic,

So touch up our hair on the sly?

Cause ever since birth

We've been told that our worth

Is determined by some shallow guy.

What about the Regis red? It seems every older guy dyes their hair that abnormal red and it looks good on no one.

So I’m the blonde woman with white streaks at the temples. Unless you’re up close it all looks blonde. Up close you can see the white contrast to the blonde.

What am I supposed to do? Color it all dark? I suppose I could go with wide streaks of platinum.

Not everyone's grey is that attractive "silvery" colour. Only those with darker or black hair get that marvelous natural look. If you have "dishwater" blonde or a nondescript brown, the white hairs, (for that is what the "greys" are) looks dirty and unkempt. Best to go a warm, caramel colour and let the "whites" blend right in. Especially if you are slightly olive-skinned.

You could try a demi-permanent on the white streaks, R91, in a shade that blends well with the blond hair. And demi-permanent does not "lift" color, it is tone on tone. So you won't get any odd tones using that approach. Sometimes grey hair is resistant to demi color, however. In that case you may need to section off the white and use a permanent color.

[quote]So I’m the blonde woman with white streaks at the temples. Unless you’re up close it all looks blonde. Up close you can see the white contrast to the blonde.

If it looks like this, I'd leave it:

(female) My hair was/is a very dark brown, almost black and I have sallow skin tones. I had my hair dyed when I was in my 40's/50's. It started to get too expensive so I let it grow out. I expected it to be mostly gray but there was hardly any. Now my hair has quite a bit of gray but mostly on the top and sides. My hairdresser said there is hardly any gray in the back. Outside in the sun I look mostly gray in the front but inside I still look like more than half of it is dark and I'll be 69 this year. I miss having it dyed sometimes but at this age I think it is better to just leave it natural and I have saved a Lot of money. (I would never do it myself, I think it's like giving yourself a haircut)

What an interesting thread. I just started to get a few strands of grey at the temples (I have naturally black hair) and I've been wondering what to do about it. I've learned a lot about hair color, so thanks!

Some blondes gray beautifully, with the gray first providing natural highlights and then turning gradually lighter into natural champagne shades before going silver.

Other natural blondes have their hair turn from ash blond to mouse-brown before they go gray, and then turn an unattractive beige as the gray comes in. I'm a guy and my hair is doing that, and I wish I could get away with dying it but it'd look goofy if I did. I can't go gray fast enough!

Be grateful you've got hair.

Yeah, be grateful u have hair and have the brains to dye it. Also put on sunscreen even on cloudy days. Tinted windows.

Men. Do not dye your hair. Gray/Grey hair is so hot as long as you have a personality and/or hot bod.

I'm thirty. Well, in November I'll be thirty.

Jonathan winters, Robin williams

Ben stiller is an odd one. I don't buy that he could get such good looking women. There is something Odd about him.

[quote]Stay in that basement, hon. It's for the best for everyone.

fuck off, I'm out working with you bitches on a daily basis and frankly you'd look better snatched bald than with that silly dye job you sport.

I’m with R25, do whatever you want.

R63 who is that, and why is his eyebrow SIDEWAYS?

What a freak.

Often, when women go prematurely gray (like R49, perhaps), their skin is still very nice, and the gray hair actually flatters and makes a surprising and pretty contrast to their young-looking skin. I think it works if especially well if there are golden tones in the skin. Good hair texture and thickness help, too, like with Emmylou Harris.

I think men are better off not dying their hair. We are used to artifice on a woman, but it stands out too much on a man, just like tweezed eyebrows do. Hair dye often imparts a vibrant, shimmery color and, although pretty, it just doesn't read as 100% natural. Also, as we age we lose pigment in our eyebrow hair and facial hair. In the Howard Stern photos above, his dark hair looks odd against pale stubble. So a man is again at a disadvantage because they don't use makeup on their brows or lashes. And dying facial hair often looks strange.

Mike Myers's hair is now totally white. He must've been dying it for years/decades. His (dyed) dark hair often had very vibrant auburn undertones. He's lucky to have such a thick mop of hair, though!

I take back what I just said about Mike Myers's hair color being unnatural and only from a bottle. A truly amazing childhood photo:

I don’t know if Howard’s hair is real but his face sure hasn’t aged!

I know an attractive older frau who refuses to dye her gray hair because she believes hair dye is what killed Jackie O.

The FDA has stated that there is no link between prolonged use dark hair dyes and non-Hodgkins lymphoma. I chose to believe them.

You're such a bitch, r94.

By that standard, basically every person on the planet needs to be dyeing their gray away (and btw, she dyes too, but she's got an exceptionally smart hairstylist who leaves just the right amount of white).

Oh, Justin. Calling @JustinTheroux please make your way to this thread. Thank you.

I think in a few years I'll try something like henna--red but natural, and might be very vibrant as I age. I work in the arts and am female and realize that women start to become "invisible" as they age. At least with red hair, I won't be disappearing into the wallpaper.

One 'n Only Colorfix (available from Sally) is an AWESOME product. It "un-develops" polymerized dye molecules (ie, shrinks them so they can wash out) to prevent build-up from repeated dyeing, but it does something even MORE important... it makes the never-dyed roots absorb as much dye as the rest of the hair, so you won't end up with black tips, brown middles, and white roots that just laugh at your attempts to dye them. It also makes the dye "grab" faster & harder, so you can wash it off sooner (the longer it's in contact with your hair, the longer it's going to be in contact with your skin... and the more likely it'll be to leave STAINS on your skin that last longer than your newly gray-free roots.

If you have dark hair and solid chunks of white, the only way to get natural-looking color is to "double process" your hair -- bleach it to yellow, sleep on it overnight to let your scalp oil build back up (otherwise, you'll end up with horrific skin stains), then tint it all back to brown using violet-base dye (interesting fact: white unpigmented hair turns yellow when you bleach it... bleach your hair long enough, and eventually the dark hairs and white hairs will converge at pale yellow). Tip #2: "brown" dye isn't REALLY brown... it's whatever color the dye says its "base" is. Most "brown hair" dye is grayish blue. That's why attempting to use it to dye blonde hair can turn it green... you're mixing blue and yellow pigment. And it's why old ladies historically ended up with blue hair... they were using dye that assumed they were (for some unfathomable reason) dyeing brown hair the same shade of brown (turning it orange, then neutralizing it back to brown with blue dye). If your hair is mostly white, you need "neutral" base dye (which generally results in the indicated shade when applied to white hair, though the results can be kind of unpredictable if you use it on hair that ISN'T mostly white).

It's a shame all the manufacturers quit selling metallic dyes ~20 years ago. They got a bad rep because women would use them, then go to the salon & get their hair dyed without telling the colorist that they used metallic dye & have their hair literally melt due to a bad chemical reaction between the new dye and the metallic dye that was already in their hair... but for men, they were awesome. The metallic mordant basically laid a foundation (or scaffolding, if you prefer) in the hair that the dye molecules could then grab onto really hard (and really quickly), so you got to have tip-to-roots even coverage without major skin staining. But because women had problems with them, they were taken off the market.

Nice to see an actual hairdresser on this thread; thanks, R88. I'm an ash blonde (F) and started highlighting in my 30s, even though it had gotten pretty dark by then and I should have begun sooner. Now I do highlights and lowlights because there is quite a lot of white mixed in. Fortunately it's a creamy white so it blends in with the highlights. For other blondes, here's a tip - get the stylist to use L'Oréal Richesse. It uses 9 volume peroxide, they can pull the hair all the way through, not just the roots and it and leaves your hair very healthy.

R113 you think henna looks natural?!

BWAHAHAHAAAAA

I often see old Indian men (red dot, not red feather) with bright RED dyed hair. Is that henna?

It's henna on white hair.

Well do they realize how FUCKING STUPID it looks?

Does anyone believe that dye job, professional or otherwise, makes you look younger when you hit the wall at 50 or so? There comes a time when it fools no one.

My hair is turning a nice shiny silver. Not a dull gray but actually silver. I’m 48 so I’m fine with it. I’m using special shampoo which is supposed to make any yellow tones in the hair less noticeable, in order the silver stand out more.

PRECISELY

we see hair color, not hair, and a nicely styled bunch of grey hair looks, well, mature, which isn't a bad thing.

to those gals on this thread upset by that, making it look like you're old, well, "YOU ARE, BLANCHE, YOU ARE!!!"

"Does anyone believe that dye job, professional or otherwise, makes you look younger when you hit the wall at 50 or so?"

Of course not, but colored hair can make a woman look better overall. We've all had that dumpy fortyish or fiftyish acquaintance who started going gray and dyed her hair blonde or red, and suddenly started dressing better and taking more care with grooming and generally looking not younger, but better overall?

If a gal wants to get that "I feel pretty oh so pretty" feeling back, better dyed hair than plastic surgery.

[quote]Of course not, but colored hair can make a woman look better overall.

mainly no

[quote] We've all had that dumpy fortyish or fiftyish acquaintance who started going gray and dyed her hair blonde or red, and suddenly started dressing better and taking more care with grooming and generally looking not younger, but better overall?

you're a completely fool

[quote]I feel pretty oh so pretty" feeling back

you're old, be mature and stop forcing the issue

They think they are fooling their husbands OP who are using Grecian Formula, turning their hair a nice orange, the same VoLTE as Reagan and McCartney.

[quote] you're a completely fool

You're a completely moron.

which color works?

Wow R128 all those women in their 40's in that photo from 1971 look like 60+ except maybe the one in the yellow turtleneck.

[quote] You're such a bitch, [R94].

Huh? What's so bitchy about saying that white streaks at the temples on a blonde woman can look good?

R94, maybe you were addressing me (blonde with white streaks)? The blonde is lighter, more concentrated white. I’m inclined to keep it because I’m not sure I can keep up a hair color schedule.

Thanks. I didn’t think your comment was bitchy at all.

Its not about looking young, for some old ladies. I like a pulled together old woman with jet black hair, tight hairdo - bun! - good makeup, tailored clothes. It's just a look.

Are you going to snark if you run into some old Spanish French Greek or Italian rich lady with jet black hair and a good suit?

....

R56 is wise for a nonhairdresser. It took me years in the business to learn what he just spilled here.

R55, be careful with touch of grey. It may be made from metallic dye. Look that up for more info.

I am so tired of fraus post in info that has absolutely zero bearing to me. I may start blocking finally.

R135, block me. God forbid an older woman wondering about dyeing her hair actually participate in this thread.

I love when people decide to accentuate natural undertones and do a light violet wash for cool tone and sandy gold gloss for warm tones. The older you get, the more you should accentuate your metallic overtones in harmony with cool or warm undertones because you're wiser and you should gleam, like some ancient king or queen sitting on the throne of wisdom, surrounded by a radiating halo of silver, gold or bronze.

R120 Go high gloss metallic, with a very subtle violet-platinum overtone if you're cool toned or like a liquid gloss of white-gold or soft bronze if you're warm toned.

I love when people embrace the change, layer the right wardrobe of monochrome periwinkle or oatmeal grays and cool or warm metallics and look like walking light beings, like glimmering beams of light. You earned the awe, might as well wear it like a wardrobe.

You are laying it on rather purple in the prose, honey stylist.

The world could be so beautiful, R139. A wash of purple is sometimes the only difference between being a ray of starlight and a hot mess.

R137 I use purple shampoo to improve the visuals of my gray but I’m terrified of it actually making my hair LOOK purple. I think I leave it in for a minute. Is there a risk of it actually making me lavender? I’m a 48!years old man and obviously don’t want that.

I use this

I listened to R137/R138 and I became a STAH!

R141 No, most color correcting shampoos don't deposit enough color for it to be noticeable as anything other than a subliminal color-wheel correction to other people's eyes. You'd need something to open the follicle and seal it or a temporary dye that coats the follicle, in addition to using a weekly color correcting treatment for it to really be noticeable.

Manic Panic "virgin snow" is a good option if you just want a little toning, something that acts like detergent bluing, without the violet tinge. This is also good for cool blondes. All products made to correct brassiness or clarify cool gray tones, are equally excellent for cool blondes. If you have mousy/dirty, flaxen or platinum blonde hair, you should be using a violet toner shampoo as your regular shampoo.

R143 But you have to admit you can't look away!

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

I should also add that any sort of cool, ashy brunettes benefit from violet toner shampoo, too.

My hair was brown originally but now the few bits that aren’t silver are a dark gray color.

R148 Are you cool toned? Do you have a bluish/grayish cast to your skin tone in photos? If that dark gray is sooty/ashy, you would benefit from the violet toning shampoo, too.

So many people with ash brown hair dye it but personally, I love when people who have ash hair play up the gunmetal tones with a violet wash.

r16 = BILL TAYLOR

Bill !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes I’d say I have that tone R149. I’m caucasian and my tone is definitely not pinkish or yellowish.

When you reach the age where nothing is going to make you look young or beautiful... You might as well just do what makes you happiest.

R153 You can be beautiful without being young. Sincerely. The problem is not that you can't be a visually interesting or beautiful person as an old person, the problem is being unhappy that you're not young, which means being unhappy for the rest of your life. Nothing can help that externally if the problem is internal.

Also, giving up on public presentation since you can no longer be a super youth, is a new thing. You don't have to care but there's nothing morally wrong with having fun with looking nice. As long as that isn't the only thing you value and understand after a lifetime of experience.

I like the idea of letting the age stand out in a beautiful way, polishing it up, celebrating it, letting it literally shine, rather than attempting to hide it. You wouldn't hide any other asset that makes you valuable to society (and wisdom is needed now more than ever) why that?

Oh wise ones, I’m still a young’in but maybe you can advise me?

I’m in my 20s with dry/coarse/curly blonde hair (glints Copper/gold in sun, but looks dull tawny in photos) and warm pink skin.

I prefer a natural head of hair and fear dyeing (most of my friends have already killed their hair permanently with bleach) but I also don’t want to lose the natural gold in my hair to ageing too quickly. Should I be looking to get color/highlights put in now, or wait 10 years then go for it?

And what should I be washing/conditioning with in the meantime to keep the natural blonde color as long as possible?

R154, you're a sweetie, but most people aren't beautiful, or conventionally beautiful.

One can always look one's best, of course, but that's not the same thing as being beautiful.

R155 You should be using chamomile shampoo and occasionally putting honey in your hair, letting it sit for an hour or afternoon (reminder: It's sticky, so don't lean on anything). Heat helps activate the natural, non damaging peroxides, too. It will give you a gold gloss. Warm redheads, this if for you, too.

Dark brunettes: Use rosemary shampoo and rosemary oil in the same way.

Honey is great conditioning for kinky-curly hair, too and will bring out the same warm highlight in warm toned kinky curly hair, even if brunette and not blonde.

R156 But there is a visual reaction of someone being beautiful, if they wear harmonious colors. One of the easiest ways of looking good is simply knowing if you are warm or cool toned. This is why some people -- even if not aesthetically, mathematically perfect -- look gorgeous in gray while others look striking in tan.

R159 If someone is a light Summer, always wearing dark, Autumn toned colors, that might be why they think they always look like hell because visually, they read to other people's eyes like a walking dissonance chord.

I always feel better when i wear blue. Maybe it’s because we’re conditioned in American society that blue is for boys, but I just like it. Blue is a very cool calming color for me, and I feel calm and comfortable when I wear blue. All of my dress shirts for work or light blue, or have a blue pattern. Yet I remember my childhood my mother was always trying to get me in brown and tan and orange colors, and to this day people have told me I look good when I wear an occasional warm fall-ish color. But I feel uncomfortable and usually can’t wait to get back into my blue

What I'm saying is that when people gray, I love the look of warm or cool metallics mixed with warm or cool natural fibers, in harmony with their natural undertone. And this isn't about ethnicity or sex, though you might find more common "seasons" in some ethnicities because of ancient regional, environmental conditions that pushed the human body to respond in certain ways, for certain reasons (like needing fairer coloring to get more vitamin D from sunlight or darker coloring to protect against long term sun damage from exposure).

There are cool and warm White people, cool and warm Asian people and cool and warm Black people. so you'd have celebrities like Jesse Williams being in the same color "season" as Olivia Wilde.

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

R161 But there are warm blues and cool blues. If you're warm and bright but dark (True Autumn) and love blue, try Mykonos blue or Chinese Blue. Navy looks good on most seasons, too.

^ The original R163 text is:

"I've been bleaching since my twenties. Since getting older, I've been coloring it darker while leaving the sideburns white to look natural. It's always moused up and scattered over my forehead. I think I look like a youthful, fit, older guy. I do not own a comb."

"What do you think?"

R164 A "Summer" would choose light sky blue or light periwinkle to look best.

I love that there are so many other women posting on this thread! I am learning so much about your hair coloring process as you age and I identify with all the problems you're going through! It's hard keeping young, and I don't think our beloved gays realize how much we ladies suffer to make ourselves still look cute and attractive.

Maybe we can start some discussion here about other things just us older gals go through. Can we talk about The Change? I am having quite a lot of trouble lately with hot flashes and it gets so bad I wind up flinging off the covers at night, but my husband complains its freezing. I've asked him to sleep in the guest bed, but he complains about that. Frankly it's nice not to have him snoring next to me anymore and to have the extra space, even though I'd trade it all back not to have the hot flashes. Are any of the rest of you going through the same thing?

R167 If you think color analysis is just for women, that may be why you think you look bad. Even the most gorgeous people on Earth reduce their wattage by wearing the wrong colors.

R167, this is not the right place to discuss "the change."

Artists inherently know this stuff. Other people have a hard time seeing why they look bad.

As someone who is color-blind, this thread is like listening to Mandarin...

R172 I think periwinkle and teal are pretty universally flattering colors, so just click on that in online order drop-downs.

If you really want to get into it, the color that each season wears better than the others:

[quote] [R167], this is not the right place to discuss "the change."

Why not? No one ever wants us to talk about it so we have to keep quiet about it, but we've got a couple of us aging gals here and I think we should have the space to talk about it. I think our gays appreciate that we need to talk about how hard it is.

R175 Lonely hearts club member? Maybe you should try "Chinese Blue" instead of "Sky Blue".

Men usually do their own hair color at home, which is why it usually looks like they've dumped a bottle of shoe polish on their heads unlike women who usually go to a salon and have a professional color their hair. The selection of hair colors for men tend to be limited whereas there are many more colors and shades for women. The products are the same for men and women only the packaging is different. If you guys want to color your hair yourself buy the women's products which gives you more options in terms of color and shade and the results should be better.

But sharing this information is so femme, R177! Going for a brick red flannel instead of a cherry red one will deplete you of your virile, masculine force! Don't fall for it!!!!!